1 00:00:17,620 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Too quick? No, it was perfect. Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,700 --> 00:00:20,939 Speaker 2: Stop. 3 00:00:21,439 --> 00:00:21,900 Speaker 1: You got it. 4 00:00:34,879 --> 00:00:37,099 Speaker 2: Previously on Business History. 5 00:00:37,659 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: Profound technological change. A few people getting very rich. A 6 00:00:41,340 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: lot of people worried about what the changes will mean 7 00:00:44,340 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: for their jobs. It's America in the 1880s. 8 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: A fight at the Homestead Steel Mill in Homestead, Pennsylvania. 9 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 2: On one side, Andrew Carnegie, steel baron, on his way 10 00:00:54,300 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: to becoming the richest man in America. 11 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: You're going with Carnegie today? We're going with Carnegie. 12 00:00:59,120 --> 00:00:59,340 Speaker 2: Yeah. 13 00:00:59,540 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: On the other side, the Amalgamated Association of Iron and 14 00:01:03,650 --> 00:01:04,449 Speaker 1: Steel Workers. 15 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:05,890 Speaker 2: A-A-I-S-W. 16 00:01:05,930 --> 00:01:09,430 Speaker 1: At least one too many letters. They're fighting over pay. 17 00:01:09,490 --> 00:01:12,929 Speaker 1: They're fighting over control of their working conditions. And in 1889, shockingly, 18 00:01:12,950 --> 00:01:17,580 Speaker 1: the union beat down. Carnegie. 19 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,610 Speaker 2: Amazing story that you can hear last week in Business History. 20 00:01:21,370 --> 00:01:27,009 Speaker 1: Now, it's 1892, and the empire is about to strike back. 21 00:01:27,630 --> 00:01:28,430 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein. 22 00:01:28,530 --> 00:01:31,569 Speaker 2: I'm Robert Smith, and this is Business History, part. 23 00:01:31,410 --> 00:01:33,670 Speaker 1: Deux, a show about the history of business. 24 00:01:34,670 --> 00:01:35,610 Speaker 2: Ouch. Do it. 25 00:01:35,630 --> 00:01:38,810 Speaker 1: Today on the show, the second part of our two-part 26 00:01:38,830 --> 00:01:40,830 Speaker 1: series on the Homestead Strike and the fight over work 27 00:01:40,860 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: in America. It's going to be violent. 28 00:01:43,300 --> 00:01:45,140 Speaker 2: And waiting in the wings are the anarchists. 29 00:01:45,580 --> 00:01:48,550 Speaker 1: And the outcome... of the fight is going to shift 30 00:01:48,610 --> 00:01:52,330 Speaker 1: the balance of power between workers and owners, between labor 31 00:01:52,350 --> 00:01:57,660 Speaker 1: and capital for decades to come. The year is 1892. 32 00:01:57,660 --> 00:02:00,860 Speaker 1: Andrew Carnegie is tired of having to negotiate with the 33 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,700 Speaker 1: union at his steel plant in Homestead, Pennsylvania, tired of 34 00:02:04,740 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: paying his workers there more than he pays at the 35 00:02:07,660 --> 00:02:10,260 Speaker 1: other plants where he's already broken the unions. And so 36 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,679 Speaker 1: he decides he's going to break the union at Homestead 37 00:02:12,740 --> 00:02:16,210 Speaker 1: when the union's contract comes up for renewal in July 38 00:02:16,410 --> 00:02:20,710 Speaker 1: of 1892. A few months before that, in April, he 39 00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:24,169 Speaker 1: writes a memo to be posted at the factory explaining 40 00:02:24,190 --> 00:02:26,550 Speaker 1: to the workers about how Homestead needs to be like 41 00:02:26,590 --> 00:02:27,590 Speaker 1: the other Carnegie plants. 42 00:02:27,810 --> 00:02:29,430 Speaker 2: So you are a worker at a steel mill. You've 43 00:02:29,470 --> 00:02:32,310 Speaker 2: just done 12-hour shift. You might wander in and read 44 00:02:32,370 --> 00:02:35,530 Speaker 2: this on the wall. The minority must give place to 45 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: the majority. These works, therefore, will be necessarily non-union after 46 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,020 Speaker 2: the expiration of the present agreement. 47 00:02:42,260 --> 00:02:44,910 Speaker 1: Carnegie writes up this memo saying, And sales off to 48 00:02:44,990 --> 00:02:48,410 Speaker 1: spend the summer in the UK. He's kind of semi-retired 49 00:02:48,450 --> 00:02:51,770 Speaker 1: by this point. And the guy running the company is 50 00:02:51,889 --> 00:02:56,310 Speaker 1: Henry Clay Frick. So Frick looks at this memo from 51 00:02:56,410 --> 00:02:59,810 Speaker 1: Carnegie about making the plant non-union. He's like, there's no 52 00:02:59,850 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: way I'm going to post this. There's no way I'm 53 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 1: going to tell these workers exactly what's coming in a 54 00:03:04,260 --> 00:03:07,980 Speaker 1: few months. But as the spring turns to summer, as 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,780 Speaker 1: July gets closer, Frick has to show his hand at 56 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 1: some point. And One of the moves he makes to 57 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,020 Speaker 1: that end is having a three-mile-long fence built all the 58 00:03:19,060 --> 00:03:22,030 Speaker 1: way around the perimeter of the homestead compound. 59 00:03:22,190 --> 00:03:24,010 Speaker 2: Nothing to see here. Perfectly normal. 60 00:03:24,030 --> 00:03:27,829 Speaker 1: Perfectly normal. The Pittsburgh Post described it as having massive 61 00:03:27,889 --> 00:03:31,660 Speaker 1: board walls. And strung along the top are two wicked 62 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: rows of jagged barbed wire. 63 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: And it's not like the workers aren't going to notice 64 00:03:35,860 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: because they live right next to this plant. The entire town. 65 00:03:39,340 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: They work there. 66 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 2: Facing the barbed wire is made up of workers or 67 00:03:44,150 --> 00:03:45,310 Speaker 2: relatives of workers from the mill. 68 00:03:45,430 --> 00:03:49,370 Speaker 1: They start calling it Fort Frick because they know. They 69 00:03:49,410 --> 00:03:53,270 Speaker 1: know Frick is turning the factory into a fort, a fortress, 70 00:03:53,410 --> 00:03:57,330 Speaker 1: a stronghold for the battle that is coming. Frick is insane. 71 00:03:57,850 --> 00:03:59,910 Speaker 1: going to be a central figure in the show today. 72 00:04:00,010 --> 00:04:03,070 Speaker 1: And he's kind of, I think, an underrated figure in 73 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:07,150 Speaker 1: business history. I knew of him as sort of Carnegie's 74 00:04:07,470 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: stooge or Carnegie's employee, but he's bigger than that. He's 75 00:04:10,310 --> 00:04:13,790 Speaker 1: his own guy. So let's talk about him for a minute. 76 00:04:14,510 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: He's really different than Carnegie. Last time, I talked about 77 00:04:18,180 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: how Carnegie wanted everybody to love him and publicly spoke 78 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: in favor of unions, despite what he did with his business, 79 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,990 Speaker 1: which was different than that. Frick was different. Not like that. 80 00:04:28,270 --> 00:04:31,710 Speaker 1: Frick was a rich, successful businessman before he went to 81 00:04:31,750 --> 00:04:35,750 Speaker 1: work for Carnegie, with Carnegie. And Frick fought unions every 82 00:04:35,830 --> 00:04:39,180 Speaker 1: chance he could, was not shy about that fact. When 83 00:04:39,260 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: his workers who lived in employee housing joined unions, he'd 84 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,100 Speaker 1: evict them. There was one instance where he was evicting 85 00:04:46,140 --> 00:04:48,540 Speaker 1: somebody and the guy refused to be evicted. So Frick 86 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: went to the guy's house with the sheriff's deputy and 87 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,260 Speaker 1: he and the deputy physically picked the guy up and 88 00:04:54,339 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: threw him into a creek. It's a hands-on manager. This 89 00:04:57,339 --> 00:05:00,099 Speaker 1: is who Frick was. Also, he loved to buy old 90 00:05:00,140 --> 00:05:02,490 Speaker 1: paintings from Europe, which you might know. Have you ever 91 00:05:02,529 --> 00:05:03,589 Speaker 1: been to the Frick Museum? 92 00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:08,370 Speaker 2: I have. It's this beautiful mansion and just gorgeous artwork. 93 00:05:08,490 --> 00:05:09,390 Speaker 2: It's a wonderful museum. 94 00:05:09,570 --> 00:05:13,710 Speaker 1: Yeah, a giant mansion on Fifth Ave across from Central Park. 95 00:05:13,750 --> 00:05:17,059 Speaker 1: That was Frick's house, and that was his art. Frick 96 00:05:17,260 --> 00:05:20,860 Speaker 1: made his first fortune in the Coke business, was known 97 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,380 Speaker 1: as the King of Coke. But he was not king 98 00:05:23,540 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: of the fun Coke. Had nothing to do with Coca-Cola, 99 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:28,580 Speaker 1: which was a new product at the time. Had nothing 100 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:31,690 Speaker 1: to do with cocaine, which was a key ingredient in 101 00:05:31,730 --> 00:05:36,210 Speaker 1: the extremely refreshing original recipe for Coca-Cola. No, he was 102 00:05:36,270 --> 00:05:39,610 Speaker 1: the king of coal cake, the most boring kind of Coke. 103 00:05:40,670 --> 00:05:45,900 Speaker 1: But an important Coke in the 1800s because... Coke is 104 00:05:45,980 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: coal that you put in the oven and bake, and 105 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,419 Speaker 1: it is a key thing that. 106 00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:53,570 Speaker 2: You need to make steel. Because it burns hotter than 107 00:05:53,630 --> 00:05:54,210 Speaker 2: regular coal. 108 00:05:54,589 --> 00:05:57,590 Speaker 1: This is the Coke that Frick was the king of. 109 00:05:58,430 --> 00:06:01,290 Speaker 1: And the second half of the 1800s is a great 110 00:06:01,370 --> 00:06:03,290 Speaker 1: time to be the king of that kind of Coke 111 00:06:03,370 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: because America is going wild for steel. And it is 112 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: through the Coke business that Frick and Carnegie start working together. 113 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,940 Speaker 1: And specifically, there's There's actually a nice kind of MBA-friendly 114 00:06:17,020 --> 00:06:19,300 Speaker 1: business idea here that I want you to talk about, 115 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: which is Carnegie, being in the steel business, has to 116 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,810 Speaker 1: answer this question, make or buy? Businesses always have to 117 00:06:25,890 --> 00:06:28,610 Speaker 1: answer make or buy. In the case we're talking about here, 118 00:06:28,630 --> 00:06:30,589 Speaker 1: it's do I make Coke or buy it? 119 00:06:31,110 --> 00:06:33,790 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you have a product or service, is it 120 00:06:33,830 --> 00:06:36,010 Speaker 2: something you want to do in-house or do you want 121 00:06:36,070 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: to subcontract it out, have someone else do it? So 122 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 2: do you want to hire an accountant or pay an 123 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: accountant by the hour in an accounting firm? And the 124 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 2: idea is you want to keep the things that are 125 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: trade secrets close to your heart. You want to take 126 00:06:48,580 --> 00:06:51,390 Speaker 2: the things that are essential, part of your competitive advantage. 127 00:06:51,410 --> 00:06:55,690 Speaker 2: Your core competencies. You want to have that inside your company. 128 00:06:56,190 --> 00:06:59,450 Speaker 2: And anything else that you can take advantage of the, 129 00:06:59,550 --> 00:07:02,470 Speaker 2: you know, economies of scale, that is what you want 130 00:07:02,490 --> 00:07:03,750 Speaker 2: to buy from outside your business. 131 00:07:04,130 --> 00:07:06,820 Speaker 1: And sometimes it changes over time. Yeah. The guy who 132 00:07:06,860 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: co-founded Netscape, not Andreessen, but the other guy, said there 133 00:07:09,820 --> 00:07:13,310 Speaker 1: are only two businesses, bundling and unbundling, right? Yeah. taking 134 00:07:13,330 --> 00:07:15,100 Speaker 1: more stuff in, you're letting more stuff out. So for 135 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,450 Speaker 1: a while, Carnegie is making Coke. He owns coal and 136 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: ovens to make Coke. But he is not that big 137 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,180 Speaker 1: of a player. And so he doesn't have scale. So 138 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: he can't do it as efficiently. And so he decides 139 00:07:27,860 --> 00:07:30,660 Speaker 1: it's going to be more efficient, cheaper for him to 140 00:07:30,740 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: buy rather than make. 141 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: But not on the open market. He wants to make 142 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:34,780 Speaker 2: a deal. He wants to make a deal. 143 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,450 Speaker 1: So he goes to Frick and they make a deal. 144 00:07:37,790 --> 00:07:41,210 Speaker 1: And it's complicated. But for a while, Frick is going 145 00:07:41,230 --> 00:07:43,730 Speaker 1: to be the exclusive provider of Coke to Carnegie. The 146 00:07:43,750 --> 00:07:46,910 Speaker 1: key thing for our story is this brings them together. 147 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:51,460 Speaker 1: And Carnegie likes Frick and winds up bringing him in 148 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:58,020 Speaker 1: to run some Carnegie operations. And eventually, Frick becomes the head, 149 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,740 Speaker 1: basically the guy running Carnegie Steel. And there's this letter 150 00:08:02,340 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: that Carnegie writes to Frick at some point to congratulate 151 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,580 Speaker 1: him on his ascent. And it really speaks to their 152 00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: relationship at this point. 153 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: Expressing my thankfulness that I have found the man. That's 154 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: in capitals. I have found the man. I am always yours, A.C., 155 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:19,420 Speaker 2: Andrew Carnegie. 156 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: Well, thanks, A.C. 157 00:08:20,940 --> 00:08:23,740 Speaker 2: Yeah. The man is erecting a giant fence. 158 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,510 Speaker 1: A giant fence. So that Andrew Carnegie doesn't have to. 159 00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:29,390 Speaker 1: Carnegie can be far away and talking about how much 160 00:08:29,430 --> 00:08:32,910 Speaker 1: he loves the workers while his buddy, the man, puts 161 00:08:33,329 --> 00:08:33,930 Speaker 1: up the fence. 162 00:08:34,089 --> 00:08:34,510 Speaker 2: The man. 163 00:08:35,110 --> 00:08:39,630 Speaker 1: So now it's June 25th, 1892. The contract is about 164 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:44,810 Speaker 1: to expire between Carnegie's steel company and the union. And 165 00:08:44,830 --> 00:08:48,620 Speaker 1: now Frick does tell the workers exactly what's coming. He 166 00:08:48,650 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: posts notices at the factory that say, the company is 167 00:08:52,220 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: done negotiating with the union. He doesn't want to make 168 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,020 Speaker 1: a different deal with the union. He is done with 169 00:08:58,059 --> 00:09:01,380 Speaker 1: the union. Today, companies aren't allowed to do that. Under 170 00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:04,450 Speaker 1: labor law, if workers decide they want to form a union, 171 00:09:04,470 --> 00:09:07,189 Speaker 1: the company has to negotiate with that union, basically. This 172 00:09:07,210 --> 00:09:09,270 Speaker 1: was a different era. This law didn't exist at the time. 173 00:09:10,090 --> 00:09:14,209 Speaker 1: So now the battle is imminent. Everybody knows it's coming. 174 00:09:14,330 --> 00:09:17,270 Speaker 1: And on the same day that Frick posts those notices, 175 00:09:17,650 --> 00:09:21,670 Speaker 1: he writes a letter to one Robert A. Pinkerton. 176 00:09:22,190 --> 00:09:24,410 Speaker 2: The Pinkertons. Is this the first time they've come up 177 00:09:24,450 --> 00:09:25,170 Speaker 2: in business history? 178 00:09:25,250 --> 00:09:25,550 Speaker 1: Yes. 179 00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:29,730 Speaker 2: Oh, when the Pinkertons come in, things get dicey. 180 00:09:30,230 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: So the Pinkertons had started out as a detective agency. Actually, 181 00:09:34,220 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: this guy, Robert A. Pinkerton, who Frick is writing to, 182 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:38,900 Speaker 1: is the son of the founder of The founder was 183 00:09:38,950 --> 00:09:42,469 Speaker 1: the first detective on the Chicago police force. And in 1861, 184 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:47,590 Speaker 1: he foiled an assassination attempt on President Lincoln. But by 185 00:09:47,670 --> 00:09:51,810 Speaker 1: this point, this is 31 years after that, by this point, 186 00:09:52,170 --> 00:09:56,030 Speaker 1: the Pinkertons are largely a private security company. And by security, 187 00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:58,270 Speaker 1: I don't mean the guy who sits with the book 188 00:09:58,370 --> 00:10:01,770 Speaker 1: at the front of the office. I mean an army 189 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,980 Speaker 1: that you can hire if you are running a company 190 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,339 Speaker 1: and your workers are out on strike and you need muscle. 191 00:10:07,820 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: And Frick is very clear about this. Here is what 192 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:11,100 Speaker 1: he wrote to Pinkerton. 193 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: We will want 300 guards for service at our homestead 194 00:10:14,940 --> 00:10:18,220 Speaker 2: mills as a measure of prevention against interference with our 195 00:10:18,300 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 2: plan to start the operation of the works on July 6th, 1892. 196 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,870 Speaker 1: So he's saying, we're going to open the plant. We're 197 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,870 Speaker 1: going to do it without the union workers. This is 198 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,910 Speaker 1: called a lockout. We're going to bring in replacement workers 199 00:10:31,050 --> 00:10:36,809 Speaker 1: and we need... 300 soldiers, really, guards, so that we 200 00:10:36,850 --> 00:10:39,890 Speaker 1: have the muscle to do it. Meanwhile, not long before this, Carnegie, 201 00:10:39,910 --> 00:10:42,230 Speaker 1: who had been in London, was going off to Scotland 202 00:10:42,270 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: where he was going to fish, be off in the 203 00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:47,380 Speaker 1: countryside far away from anything ugly that might happen. He 204 00:10:47,460 --> 00:10:48,780 Speaker 1: sent Frick a final message. 205 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,780 Speaker 2: One thing we are all sure of, no contest will 206 00:10:51,820 --> 00:10:54,340 Speaker 2: be entered in that will fail. We are with you 207 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,790 Speaker 2: to the end. says the man who has already left 208 00:10:57,809 --> 00:10:58,689 Speaker 2: the country and is about. 209 00:10:58,570 --> 00:11:00,750 Speaker 1: To go fishing. Literally, he is about to go fishing. 210 00:11:00,790 --> 00:11:03,790 Speaker 1: He's writing to Frick about like, oh, I caught a trout. 211 00:11:04,220 --> 00:11:06,780 Speaker 1: It was five and a half pounds. A personal record. 212 00:11:07,140 --> 00:11:09,700 Speaker 2: Right as things are getting violent at the factory. 213 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,260 Speaker 1: That's what we're going to talk about in just a minute. 214 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:28,270 Speaker 1: Music Today's segment is sponsored by ChatGPT. And this is 215 00:11:28,309 --> 00:11:32,150 Speaker 1: an ad about how we used ChatGPT work to help 216 00:11:32,210 --> 00:11:34,490 Speaker 1: us come up with a title for last week's episode. 217 00:11:34,550 --> 00:11:36,510 Speaker 1: When Anarchists Attack. Yes, okay. 218 00:11:36,690 --> 00:11:37,990 Speaker 2: Rich Guys vs. Unions. 219 00:11:38,090 --> 00:11:40,460 Speaker 1: Yeah, Rich Guys vs. Unions is not bad. The Rise 220 00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:42,219 Speaker 1: of Labor. The Rise of Labor in America. I always 221 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: like In America. It makes it feel bigger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 222 00:11:44,980 --> 00:11:47,940 Speaker 1: Or Andrew Carnegie and the Rise of Labor in America. Gabriel, 223 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,820 Speaker 1: give us one. What the Frick. What the Frick. I 224 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:55,510 Speaker 1: typed these ideas into ChatGPT work. I uploaded the script 225 00:11:55,730 --> 00:11:58,820 Speaker 1: from the show, and I asked ChatGPT Work to look 226 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: at the titles of our previous episodes and then suggest 227 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,420 Speaker 1: tweaks and alternatives for the titles we suggested. ChatGPT Work 228 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: pointed out that When Anarchists Attack was the strongest hook, 229 00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:13,900 Speaker 1: but it overstated how much of the episode was about anarchists. Also, 230 00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:16,730 Speaker 1: it said What the Frick was fun, but pointed out 231 00:12:16,780 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: that Frick was barely a character in that episode. Tough 232 00:12:20,179 --> 00:12:23,300 Speaker 1: but fair on both counts. After that, chat GPT work 233 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:26,460 Speaker 1: came back with a bunch of variations on our initial suggestions. 234 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,020 Speaker 1: Rich guys versus workers. Andrew Carnegie and the rise of labor. Bombs, steel, 235 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,229 Speaker 1: and strikes. And Andrew Carnegie versus the workers. America's first 236 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:38,890 Speaker 1: labor wars. I read those out, and our editor, Ryan Dilley, 237 00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:42,170 Speaker 1: noticed the word war in a few of those suggestions. 238 00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:44,830 Speaker 1: And he came up with a few variations of his own. 239 00:12:45,330 --> 00:12:49,060 Speaker 1: He suggested, Carnegie goes to war with his workers. Or, 240 00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 1: Carnegie goes to war with the union. Let's see what 241 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,420 Speaker 1: ChatGPT work thinks. Carnegie goes to war with the union 242 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: is pretty good. Oh, you know, here's a tighter version 243 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,660 Speaker 1: that suggests Andrew Carnegie's war with his workers. 244 00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:05,780 Speaker 2: Andrew Carnegie's war with his workers is very good. 245 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: And that is what we went with for the title 246 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: of last week's show. Put ChatGPT to work on your 247 00:13:11,230 --> 00:13:16,849 Speaker 1: most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at ChatGPT.com, available 248 00:13:16,929 --> 00:13:18,350 Speaker 1: on Plus and Pro plans. 249 00:13:27,740 --> 00:13:28,460 Speaker 2: We have returned. 250 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,579 Speaker 1: We have returned. So what has happened is the union 251 00:13:32,620 --> 00:13:35,700 Speaker 1: was going to strike. Technically, before that happened, the company 252 00:13:35,780 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: closed the plant down on June 29th. So technically, it's 253 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,940 Speaker 1: a lockout, a you can't quit, I fire you kind 254 00:13:42,980 --> 00:13:46,820 Speaker 1: of lockout. People hung effigies of Henry Clay Frick on 255 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,940 Speaker 1: the lampposts around the town of Homestead. The mayor ordered 256 00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:53,350 Speaker 1: them cut down. The mayor also ordered the saloons closed 257 00:13:53,380 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: to keep order. Smart. But interestingly, the mayor, his title 258 00:13:58,460 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: was not technically mayor. It was Burgess, but he's basically 259 00:14:00,940 --> 00:14:05,420 Speaker 1: the mayor. He was not some corporate puppet or stooge. 260 00:14:05,940 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: He was a worker. He was in the union. He 261 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,620 Speaker 1: worked at the mill. His name was John McLuckie, and 262 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,250 Speaker 1: he was one of the main people fighting the company's 263 00:14:17,390 --> 00:14:22,010 Speaker 1: attempt to break the union. which says something extremely interesting 264 00:14:22,090 --> 00:14:25,050 Speaker 1: about this town. You know, it's a company town in 265 00:14:25,090 --> 00:14:27,430 Speaker 1: a different sense than we usually think of that word. 266 00:14:27,510 --> 00:14:29,670 Speaker 1: It's a worker's town. It's not a town where the 267 00:14:30,010 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: company town in the sense of the workers get paid 268 00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: in script and have to shop at the overpriced company store. 269 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: It's a town dominated entirely by the workers and their families. 270 00:14:40,460 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: And what was going on at Homestead was national news. 271 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,460 Speaker 1: It was a big fight that people knew about. And 272 00:14:47,820 --> 00:14:52,980 Speaker 1: on July 3rd, McLuckie, the mayor, gave an interview to 273 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: the New York World where he talked about what was happening. 274 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,390 Speaker 2: We do not propose that Andrew Carnegie's representatives shall bulldoze us. 275 00:14:59,770 --> 00:15:01,350 Speaker 2: We have our homes in this town. We have our 276 00:15:01,410 --> 00:15:05,010 Speaker 2: churches here, our societies and our cemeteries. They never have 277 00:15:05,130 --> 00:15:08,430 Speaker 2: imported a man into Homestead. And by damn, they never will. 278 00:15:08,910 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: We shall not permit it. 279 00:15:10,810 --> 00:15:15,140 Speaker 1: The mayor, on July 5th, A bunch of sheriff deputies 280 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: come to town to post a sheriff's notice warning people 281 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: against interfering with the workmen, business or operation of the 282 00:15:22,860 --> 00:15:26,740 Speaker 1: steel plant. The notices are immediately torn down and the 283 00:15:26,780 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: deputies are marched out of town by Mayor McLuckie and 284 00:15:30,740 --> 00:15:33,540 Speaker 1: like a thousand workers take them to the riverbank and 285 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,950 Speaker 1: put them on a boat back to Pittsburgh. By this point, 286 00:15:37,890 --> 00:15:42,170 Speaker 1: the union had posted notice. lookouts at the entrances to 287 00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:45,830 Speaker 1: town and on the river outside of town because they 288 00:15:45,870 --> 00:15:48,970 Speaker 1: knew something was coming. And at around two in the 289 00:15:49,010 --> 00:15:52,550 Speaker 1: morning on July 6th, a union lookout on a bridge 290 00:15:52,650 --> 00:15:57,740 Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh saw a tugboat towing two barges up the 291 00:15:57,780 --> 00:16:01,780 Speaker 1: river toward Homestead. And he ran to the telegraph office 292 00:16:01,900 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: and sent a message to the union office in Homestead. 293 00:16:06,380 --> 00:16:08,940 Speaker 2: Watch the river. Steamer with barges left here. 294 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: Robert, I've heard you do a million times, but this 295 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: time it actually is a telegraph. It actually is that sound. 296 00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: So this message comes into the union office in Homestead. 297 00:16:19,380 --> 00:16:22,730 Speaker 1: Somebody there blows a steam whistle, which is the signal. 298 00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:27,230 Speaker 2: Haven't heard me do that a million times, have you? 299 00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Somebody else is riding around town like Paul Revere, 300 00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:35,980 Speaker 1: raising the alarm, telling people to come out in the streets. 301 00:16:36,020 --> 00:16:38,020 Speaker 1: They don't know exactly what's coming yet, but they know 302 00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:42,420 Speaker 1: it's something. And what's coming is the Pinkertons, those guards 303 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: that Frick had requested. So what's coming on these barges 304 00:16:46,060 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: is 300 Pinkertons, along with 350 pistols and 200 rifles. 305 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: And the Pinkertons, of course, are going to come in 306 00:16:55,660 --> 00:16:58,380 Speaker 1: and secure the factory so that it can reopen with 307 00:16:58,490 --> 00:16:59,250 Speaker 1: non-union work. 308 00:16:59,750 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: Perhaps hoping for a little bit of surprise coming in 309 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:02,620 Speaker 2: in the middle of the night. 310 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,859 Speaker 1: Indeed. And not getting it. Crucially, crucially. Because by the 311 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,060 Speaker 1: time the barges get to Homestead, it's around 4 a.m., 312 00:17:11,540 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: and there are thousands of people out on the riverbank. 313 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: You know, men, but also women and children. And there's 314 00:17:19,060 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: people carrying babies, and other people are carrying clubs, and 315 00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:25,619 Speaker 1: some people are carrying guns. And so the barges are 316 00:17:25,660 --> 00:17:28,469 Speaker 1: coming up, and it becomes clear that that they're going 317 00:17:28,490 --> 00:17:32,070 Speaker 1: to land on the shore at the mill behind that 318 00:17:32,190 --> 00:17:35,129 Speaker 1: big fence with the barbed wire on top, which makes sense. 319 00:17:35,369 --> 00:17:39,350 Speaker 1: And the union leaders had told the people not to trespass, 320 00:17:39,410 --> 00:17:42,390 Speaker 1: not to break the law and go onto the factory property. 321 00:17:42,510 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: But the people don't listen to that at this point. 322 00:17:45,619 --> 00:17:48,700 Speaker 1: They knock down the fence to stop the Pinkertons from 323 00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: coming ashore. And there's some stray gunshots even before the 324 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,570 Speaker 1: boats land. The boats land, and there's a standoff. There 325 00:17:58,609 --> 00:18:00,790 Speaker 1: is a standoff. There's these boats with the Pinkertons on it. 326 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,020 Speaker 1: There's these thousands of people. And one of the union 327 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,850 Speaker 1: members there was a guy named Hugh O'Donnell. He was 328 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: a young guy in his early 20s. He'd been working 329 00:18:10,770 --> 00:18:14,390 Speaker 1: at Homestead since he was 17. And he calls out 330 00:18:14,609 --> 00:18:15,970 Speaker 1: to the men on the barges. 331 00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:19,270 Speaker 2: On behalf of 5,000 men, I beg of you to 332 00:18:19,330 --> 00:18:22,250 Speaker 2: leave here at once. I don't know who you are 333 00:18:22,350 --> 00:18:24,770 Speaker 2: nor from whence you came, but I do know that 334 00:18:24,790 --> 00:18:27,489 Speaker 2: you have no business here. And if you remain, there 335 00:18:27,530 --> 00:18:28,930 Speaker 2: will be more bloodshed. 336 00:18:29,369 --> 00:18:31,930 Speaker 1: We've talked about whether he really said these words. This 337 00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:35,380 Speaker 1: is what the historical record says he says. I more 338 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: and more think he kind of did. 339 00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 2: It's a little eloquent for yelling from a riverbank in 340 00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:40,460 Speaker 2: the middle of the night, but sure. 341 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,410 Speaker 1: In any case, after Hugh O'Donnell yells this, the Pinkerton 342 00:18:44,450 --> 00:18:48,330 Speaker 1: captain from the barge answers back, yells back. Also eloquently. 343 00:18:48,590 --> 00:18:50,870 Speaker 2: We were sent here to take possession of this property 344 00:18:50,970 --> 00:18:53,260 Speaker 2: and to guard it for this company. We don't wish 345 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,580 Speaker 2: to shed blood, but we are determined to go up 346 00:18:55,619 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 2: there and shall do so. If you men don't withdraw, 347 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 2: we will mow every one of you down and enter 348 00:19:01,340 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 2: in spite of you. 349 00:19:02,410 --> 00:19:05,310 Speaker 1: The Pinkertons put down a gangplank from the barge to 350 00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: the shore. A steelworker ran onto the gangplank and laid 351 00:19:09,580 --> 00:19:13,500 Speaker 1: down to block the way. There's some blows, some hitting, 352 00:19:13,740 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 1: and then people start shooting. It's not clear who shot first. 353 00:19:19,030 --> 00:19:21,350 Speaker 1: People argue over who shot first. I actually don't think 354 00:19:21,530 --> 00:19:24,129 Speaker 1: it matters who shot first. It was clearly going to 355 00:19:24,150 --> 00:19:27,830 Speaker 1: be shooting or people with guns on both sides. And 356 00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:32,340 Speaker 1: people get shot. The Pinkerton captain who had spoken got shot. O'Donnell, 357 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,580 Speaker 1: the Union guy who had spoken, he got grazed in 358 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: the thumb. In all, something like 13 steelworkers and a 359 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,820 Speaker 1: dozen Pinkertons were shot in less than 10 minutes. Some 360 00:19:42,859 --> 00:19:46,790 Speaker 1: of them died. And then there's another standoff for a 361 00:19:46,830 --> 00:19:50,629 Speaker 1: few hours. The tugboat took the Pinkerton wounded across the 362 00:19:50,670 --> 00:19:54,070 Speaker 1: river to safety. The Union workers are building barricades on 363 00:19:54,090 --> 00:19:57,090 Speaker 1: the shore. Conveniently for them, the The factory had been 364 00:19:57,170 --> 00:20:01,710 Speaker 1: stockpiling steel against the shutdown, so they have good barricade material. 365 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:05,859 Speaker 1: At 8 a.m., the Pinkertons try again to come on shore. 366 00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:10,190 Speaker 1: There's more shooting. There's more deaths. Another standoff. At some point, 367 00:20:10,250 --> 00:20:13,669 Speaker 1: the tugboat starts to come back, but then the townspeople 368 00:20:13,770 --> 00:20:17,390 Speaker 1: shoot into the tugboat, and the tugboat steams off, which 369 00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:20,250 Speaker 1: is very important because now these barges don't have any 370 00:20:20,330 --> 00:20:23,250 Speaker 1: means of propulsion. So now you have these barges with 371 00:20:23,310 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: hundreds of Pinkertons marooned on the shore, surrounded by thousands 372 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,100 Speaker 1: of angry people, many of them armed. 373 00:20:31,380 --> 00:20:33,139 Speaker 2: And the only way off is through the crowd. 374 00:20:33,690 --> 00:20:36,830 Speaker 1: Yes. The people on shore want to kill the Pinkertons 375 00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:39,340 Speaker 1: at this point. At some point, they... They build a 376 00:20:39,420 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: big fire on a raft and push it toward the 377 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,630 Speaker 1: barges to set it on fire. It burns out. They 378 00:20:45,810 --> 00:20:47,990 Speaker 1: set a rail car on fire and run it down 379 00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:51,770 Speaker 1: toward the shore. It doesn't work. They're still shooting into 380 00:20:51,790 --> 00:20:57,170 Speaker 1: the barge. And the Pinkertons themselves, by this point, a 381 00:20:57,230 --> 00:20:59,510 Speaker 1: lot of them don't want to fight. A lot of 382 00:20:59,570 --> 00:21:04,310 Speaker 1: them are not career Pinkertons. They're not hardened quasi-soldiers. They're 383 00:21:04,350 --> 00:21:06,270 Speaker 1: just guys who signed up for a job and probably 384 00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:08,300 Speaker 1: didn't know what they were getting into. Some of the 385 00:21:08,340 --> 00:21:10,699 Speaker 1: Pinkertons start putting on life jackets and they want to 386 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,980 Speaker 1: jump off the barges and just float away. But the 387 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:19,370 Speaker 1: Pinkerton leaders threaten to shoot those Pinkertons if they jump off. 388 00:21:19,650 --> 00:21:22,630 Speaker 1: At one point, as the Union guys or the people 389 00:21:22,690 --> 00:21:25,710 Speaker 1: on shore are shooting into the barges, they hit and 390 00:21:25,810 --> 00:21:29,430 Speaker 1: kill a Pinkerton who was inside the barge, hiding under 391 00:21:29,470 --> 00:21:33,260 Speaker 1: a table, wearing a life jacket. And that seems to 392 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,659 Speaker 1: push a lot of the Pinkertons over the edge. It's 393 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: just so hopeless. at this point for them. So they 394 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: decide to surrender. They raise a white flag from the 395 00:21:43,020 --> 00:21:45,340 Speaker 1: barge and somebody on the shore shoots the white flag down. 396 00:21:45,380 --> 00:21:48,330 Speaker 1: The crowd is not going to let the Pinkerton surrender yet. 397 00:21:49,090 --> 00:21:51,450 Speaker 1: This is playing out over hours. This is not minutes. 398 00:21:51,510 --> 00:21:53,369 Speaker 1: This is a thing that is playing out over hours 399 00:21:53,430 --> 00:21:56,389 Speaker 1: and word of it is getting out. And outside town, 400 00:21:56,530 --> 00:22:00,209 Speaker 1: people want Frick, the guy who's running Carnegie Steel, they 401 00:22:00,250 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 1: want Frick to talk to union representatives, to negotiate essentially. 402 00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:07,300 Speaker 1: But Frick Doesn't want to. Here's what he says. 403 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,180 Speaker 2: He said the company was not taking any active part 404 00:22:10,220 --> 00:22:12,699 Speaker 2: in the matter at present, as we cannot interfere with 405 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,270 Speaker 2: the sheriff and the discharge of his duty and are 406 00:22:15,310 --> 00:22:16,869 Speaker 2: now awaiting his further action. 407 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,850 Speaker 1: Okay. This is said by the guy who has just 408 00:22:19,950 --> 00:22:23,170 Speaker 1: hired a private army, essentially, to come up the river 409 00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:25,389 Speaker 1: to the factory. But now that his private army is 410 00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:27,689 Speaker 1: pinned down, he's like, oh, no, it's a matter for 411 00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:31,629 Speaker 1: the sheriff. And on a certain level, he's right. In 412 00:22:31,670 --> 00:22:37,300 Speaker 1: a functioning country... The state, the government, the sheriff should 413 00:22:37,380 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: have the monopoly on the use of force. It should 414 00:22:40,780 --> 00:22:43,669 Speaker 1: not be up to the factory boss to hire the 415 00:22:43,710 --> 00:22:48,030 Speaker 1: private army. And it is ultimately the state that sets 416 00:22:48,130 --> 00:22:51,939 Speaker 1: the rules of the game for capital and labor. So 417 00:22:51,980 --> 00:22:54,060 Speaker 1: Frick is appealing to the state here, to the government. 418 00:22:54,830 --> 00:22:58,020 Speaker 1: And it's not clear at this moment which way the 419 00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: state is going to go. The sheriff asked the governor 420 00:23:02,060 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: to send in the National Guard. This is a big fight. 421 00:23:05,020 --> 00:23:07,820 Speaker 1: The sheriff can't handle it. Here's the governor's response. 422 00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:10,540 Speaker 2: It is not the purpose of the military to act 423 00:23:10,619 --> 00:23:13,790 Speaker 2: as police officers. The civil authorities must, in the end, 424 00:23:13,910 --> 00:23:18,550 Speaker 2: settle the differences. Oh, so does not want to take 425 00:23:18,609 --> 00:23:20,730 Speaker 2: sides at this point. Maybe doesn't know which way the 426 00:23:20,770 --> 00:23:21,770 Speaker 2: political winds are blowing. 427 00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:28,410 Speaker 1: Exactly. Imagine this. There is a shooting battle with thousands 428 00:23:28,450 --> 00:23:32,050 Speaker 1: of people involved. People have died. The sheriff is asking 429 00:23:32,250 --> 00:23:37,970 Speaker 1: for reinforcements. And the governor is like, no. Like, this 430 00:23:38,070 --> 00:23:41,810 Speaker 1: is extraordinary. This is extraordinary. And at a certain level, 431 00:23:41,950 --> 00:23:46,190 Speaker 1: it is democracy in action because the governor knows that 432 00:23:46,290 --> 00:23:48,890 Speaker 1: some of his voters, some of the people who support him, 433 00:23:49,490 --> 00:23:52,580 Speaker 1: are people. union members or families of union members or 434 00:23:52,619 --> 00:23:55,940 Speaker 1: support unions. And he also knows people hate the Pinkertons. 435 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,100 Speaker 1: The Pinkertons are a known force and people don't like them. 436 00:23:59,580 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: So what happens? The governor is going to wait and 437 00:24:01,460 --> 00:24:04,420 Speaker 1: see what happens. Here's what happens. The union guys keep 438 00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:09,070 Speaker 1: shooting at the barges and eventually a few Pinkertons walk 439 00:24:09,210 --> 00:24:12,590 Speaker 1: out onto the deck holding up white handkerchiefs. A brave 440 00:24:12,670 --> 00:24:15,030 Speaker 1: thing to do in a way. Trying again to surrender. 441 00:24:15,090 --> 00:24:17,609 Speaker 1: And this time O'Donnell, the union guy who spoke, who 442 00:24:17,630 --> 00:24:19,770 Speaker 1: had his thumb grazed, he goes down to the barges 443 00:24:19,790 --> 00:24:23,010 Speaker 1: and to talk to the Pinkertons. If they lay down 444 00:24:23,030 --> 00:24:26,730 Speaker 1: their arms and surrender, they will be given safe passage 445 00:24:26,890 --> 00:24:29,550 Speaker 1: out of town. And they agree. They agree to this. 446 00:24:29,690 --> 00:24:33,950 Speaker 1: So O'Donnell leads the Pinkertons off the barges onto the shore. 447 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,820 Speaker 1: But as the Pinkertons start walking up the shore, a 448 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,260 Speaker 1: line of people, angry people, forms on both sides, and 449 00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:49,139 Speaker 1: the people start beating the Pinkertons. Robert, read to us 450 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:50,180 Speaker 1: from the Pittsburgh Post. 451 00:24:50,619 --> 00:24:52,540 Speaker 2: They were knocked on the head and struck in the face. 452 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 2: The men plunged wildly onward, begging for the mercy which 453 00:24:55,980 --> 00:24:59,369 Speaker 2: they received not. No distinction was made. They were hit 454 00:24:59,410 --> 00:25:01,990 Speaker 2: on the heads with hand billies and clubs and sticks 455 00:25:02,350 --> 00:25:06,310 Speaker 2: and stricken to the ground. Eventually, the Pinkertons make it 456 00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:08,230 Speaker 2: to the opera house, actually. 457 00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:09,830 Speaker 1: They're going to hold them in the opera house. Every 458 00:25:09,869 --> 00:25:13,170 Speaker 1: town had an opera house. And the word in town 459 00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:17,490 Speaker 1: is that the sheriff is going to come and arrest 460 00:25:17,670 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: the Pinkertons for murder or for attempted murder. But that 461 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: doesn't happen. The sheriff doesn't arrest them. And just after midnight, 462 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: the Pinkertons are put on a special train to Pittsburgh 463 00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: and then on to New York. The battle is over. 464 00:25:32,660 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: At least seven townspeople are dead. At least three Pinkertons 465 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:41,170 Speaker 1: are dead. Many, many, many more are wounded. And for 466 00:25:41,230 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: the workers, despite the violence... This feels like victory. They 467 00:25:48,980 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: have prevented Henry Clay Frick from bringing in his army 468 00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:56,260 Speaker 1: to secure the factory, which means, as of now, the 469 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,300 Speaker 1: company still can't bring in the replacement workers to break 470 00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: the union. A few days later, the governor ordered thousands 471 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: of National Guard troops to go to Homestead to support 472 00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: the sheriff. Here's his order. 473 00:26:07,060 --> 00:26:09,419 Speaker 2: Put the division under arms and move at once with 474 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 2: ammunition to support the sheriff of Allegheny County at Homestead. 475 00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 2: Maintain the peace. Protect all persons and their rights under 476 00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 2: the Constitution and laws of the state. 477 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: So the National Guard marches into Homestead and the workers 478 00:26:22,540 --> 00:26:24,980 Speaker 1: let them. They don't really have a choice. There's so 479 00:26:25,050 --> 00:26:29,770 Speaker 1: many guardsmen. But the workers are still on strike. Frick 480 00:26:29,790 --> 00:26:32,169 Speaker 1: can't force them back to work. And the factory still 481 00:26:32,330 --> 00:26:56,470 Speaker 1: is not open. We'll be back in just a minute. OK, 482 00:26:56,490 --> 00:27:00,150 Speaker 1: we're back from the break. The National Guard has just 483 00:27:00,210 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: marched into Homestead. And what's happening in Homestead is still 484 00:27:03,740 --> 00:27:08,780 Speaker 1: a global story, the biggest story in America. Give us 485 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,550 Speaker 1: the lead story on page one of The New York 486 00:27:11,570 --> 00:27:13,260 Speaker 1: Sun on July 13. 487 00:27:13,260 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: Overawed by military, homestead strikers face to face with the 488 00:27:16,660 --> 00:27:17,740 Speaker 2: state's armed force. 489 00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:20,710 Speaker 1: I was looking at this in the reproduction of the 490 00:27:20,810 --> 00:27:23,970 Speaker 1: front page, and I noticed that there's a second story 491 00:27:24,190 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: on the front page of that paper that day about 492 00:27:27,140 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: the federal government sending in troops to this violent strike 493 00:27:30,420 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: at a mine in Idaho. which just tells you how 494 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,100 Speaker 1: much this is happening, how this labor versus capital fight 495 00:27:38,340 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: is widespread in America at this time. 496 00:27:40,770 --> 00:27:42,850 Speaker 2: And for most people in the country at this time, 497 00:27:43,109 --> 00:27:45,530 Speaker 2: they must be looking at this with a little bit 498 00:27:45,550 --> 00:27:50,670 Speaker 2: of alarm because it seems like something bad is happening 499 00:27:50,730 --> 00:27:53,970 Speaker 2: out there and it's unclear who to blame for it. Yeah, 500 00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:55,750 Speaker 2: there's a range of opinions and you can see it 501 00:27:55,790 --> 00:27:58,740 Speaker 2: in the newspapers. You know, some newspapers. 502 00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:03,129 Speaker 1: describe the workers as a mob, are sympathetic to the owners. 503 00:28:03,570 --> 00:28:05,730 Speaker 1: But a lot of newspapers and a lot of people 504 00:28:06,010 --> 00:28:09,870 Speaker 1: are sympathetic to the workers, to the union. There's one headline, 505 00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:15,420 Speaker 1: while blood flowed, Frick smoked, which is kind of an 506 00:28:15,540 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: off rhyme. And I found this speech on the Senate 507 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:24,139 Speaker 1: floor that a senator from Illinois gave around this time. 508 00:28:24,580 --> 00:28:27,679 Speaker 1: that I found extremely interesting because I think it points 509 00:28:27,780 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: to the way people are trying to sort this out, 510 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: trying to understand this new world of work as it 511 00:28:34,060 --> 00:28:37,380 Speaker 1: has come to exist. So this senator's name was John Palmer. 512 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,600 Speaker 1: He's from Illinois. He's clearly trying to balance property rights, 513 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,930 Speaker 1: which already existed in the law, with What he saw 514 00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:49,490 Speaker 1: as workers' rights that weren't yet recognized by the law. 515 00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:52,870 Speaker 1: So he's talking here about the workers who fought the Pinkertons. 516 00:28:53,290 --> 00:28:56,110 Speaker 2: These citizens were right. These men had a right to 517 00:28:56,170 --> 00:28:58,870 Speaker 2: be there. That makes it necessary for me to assert 518 00:28:59,110 --> 00:29:02,190 Speaker 2: that these men had a right to employment there. A 519 00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:02,930 Speaker 2: right to employment. 520 00:29:02,970 --> 00:29:05,850 Speaker 1: A right to employment. And he is clear. He knows 521 00:29:05,870 --> 00:29:08,150 Speaker 1: this doesn't exist in the law yet, but he's saying 522 00:29:08,690 --> 00:29:11,030 Speaker 1: it should exist in the law. Just the same way 523 00:29:11,070 --> 00:29:13,530 Speaker 1: that factory owners have a right to their property, he's 524 00:29:13,710 --> 00:29:17,350 Speaker 1: arguing that that workers should be able to earn the 525 00:29:17,450 --> 00:29:21,930 Speaker 1: right to continued employment, you know, subject to good behavior. Today, 526 00:29:21,990 --> 00:29:25,220 Speaker 1: you see this kind of occasionally or sometimes in provisions 527 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: where people can only be fired for cause. It's this 528 00:29:29,580 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: kind of idea. And by the way, Senator Palmer also 529 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: takes a swipe at the Pinkertons, calls them mercenaries, compares 530 00:29:37,420 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: the head of the Pinkertons to a baron from the 531 00:29:39,860 --> 00:29:43,020 Speaker 1: Middle Ages. This is a popular move. A lot of 532 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,140 Speaker 1: people are anti-Pinkerton. You know, they don't like this idea 533 00:29:46,180 --> 00:29:48,810 Speaker 1: that rich people can hire what is more or less 534 00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:51,690 Speaker 1: their own private army. Somebody actually wrote a song around 535 00:29:51,730 --> 00:29:55,210 Speaker 1: this topic. Father was killed by the Pinkerton men. 536 00:29:55,730 --> 00:29:57,460 Speaker 2: And I know you've asked me not to actually sing it. 537 00:29:57,470 --> 00:30:00,910 Speaker 2: I'll just read the lyrics.' Twas in a Pennsylvania town 538 00:30:01,020 --> 00:30:04,740 Speaker 2: not very long ago. Men struck against reduction of their pay. 539 00:30:05,060 --> 00:30:09,500 Speaker 2: Their millionaire employer with philanthropic show had closed the works 540 00:30:09,620 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 2: till starved they would obey. 541 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,060 Speaker 1: The millionaire and player with philanthropic show, we talked about 542 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,850 Speaker 1: last week on the show, that is Andrew Carnegie. Fishing. 543 00:30:18,050 --> 00:30:21,670 Speaker 1: They're calling out his hypocrisy, right? The philanthropic show is 544 00:30:21,690 --> 00:30:25,670 Speaker 1: he is famous as a philanthropist. And meanwhile, he is 545 00:30:25,790 --> 00:30:26,950 Speaker 1: closing the works till. 546 00:30:27,730 --> 00:30:29,190 Speaker 2: Starved they would obey. 547 00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:32,950 Speaker 1: So what's going on at Homestead at this moment in 548 00:30:32,990 --> 00:30:36,830 Speaker 1: July of 1892 is a dramatic story for all of America. 549 00:30:37,730 --> 00:30:41,630 Speaker 1: But you know who's really... excited about it, you know, 550 00:30:41,710 --> 00:30:44,250 Speaker 1: is really worked up about what's going on at Homestead. 551 00:30:44,830 --> 00:30:47,060 Speaker 2: Is it a group of pacifists who really want everyone 552 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:47,340 Speaker 2: to calm down? 553 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: It's the anarchists! The anarchists, of course, of course. We 554 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: talked about the anarchists last time when we talked about 555 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,580 Speaker 1: the Haymarket Affair, literal bomb throwers. They threw a bomb 556 00:30:58,540 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: because they wanted to start a revolution. You know, many 557 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,060 Speaker 1: anarchists thought the way to start a revolution to free 558 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:11,130 Speaker 1: the workers was to commit violent, dramatic acts like assassinating people. 559 00:31:11,170 --> 00:31:14,150 Speaker 1: They called it propaganda of the deed. Maybe the most 560 00:31:14,290 --> 00:31:17,650 Speaker 1: famous American anarchist was Emma Goldman. If you've heard of 561 00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:21,430 Speaker 1: one American anarchist, it's probably her. And in 1892, she 562 00:31:21,470 --> 00:31:24,130 Speaker 1: was in her early 20s, and she was living with 563 00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:29,820 Speaker 1: another young anarchist named Alexander Berkman. And once the Homestead 564 00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: Strike happens, they are like, this is it. This is 565 00:31:35,940 --> 00:31:40,540 Speaker 1: the moment for the revolution. You know, everybody sees The 566 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: brutality of capital sees these armed men coming in to 567 00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: suppress the workers. 568 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 2: And how ineffective the state has been to prevent this. 569 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: So the eyes of the world are on Homestead, Pennsylvania now. 570 00:31:54,570 --> 00:31:58,510 Speaker 1: And Goldman and Berkman think the right move could bring 571 00:31:58,570 --> 00:32:02,790 Speaker 1: about the revolution. And they decide that that move is 572 00:32:03,690 --> 00:32:08,850 Speaker 1: for Berkman to assassinate Henry Clay Frank. Bergman gets on 573 00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:12,230 Speaker 1: the train from New York to Pittsburgh. He's armed with 574 00:32:12,410 --> 00:32:16,290 Speaker 1: a revolver and a dagger that he has carved himself. 575 00:32:16,670 --> 00:32:19,690 Speaker 1: He'll later write what was in his mind at the time. 576 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: The removal of a tyrant is not merely justifiable. It 577 00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 2: is the highest duty of every true revolutionist. 578 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: Bergman has a perfect cover story. He's going to say 579 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,790 Speaker 1: he's an employment agent. who's come to help the company 580 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,660 Speaker 1: find people to replace the striking workers at Homestead. 581 00:32:39,020 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: Frick wants workers to come in, wants to meet with 582 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 2: employment agents. It's perfect. 583 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,110 Speaker 1: Berkman shows up at Carnegie Steel headquarters in Pittsburgh on 584 00:32:48,150 --> 00:32:51,750 Speaker 1: July 19th. Can't find Frick. Comes back on the 21st. 585 00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:55,270 Speaker 1: Frick's seemingly not there. Berkman comes back again on Saturday 586 00:32:55,310 --> 00:32:58,940 Speaker 1: the 23rd, and this time Frick is there. And Berkman 587 00:32:58,980 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: sees him, sees him through a door, describes him as 588 00:33:01,340 --> 00:33:04,060 Speaker 1: a black bearded, well-knit figure at a table in the 589 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,830 Speaker 1: back of the room. Frick is sitting, I guess it's 590 00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:09,570 Speaker 1: a conference table. He's sitting with somebody else. And Berkman 591 00:33:10,310 --> 00:33:12,770 Speaker 1: manages to get into the room where Frick is sitting. 592 00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:16,270 Speaker 1: Here is Berkman's own description of what happens next. 593 00:33:17,070 --> 00:33:19,710 Speaker 2: With a quick motion, I draw the revolver. As I 594 00:33:19,820 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 2: raise the weapon, I see Frick clutch with both hands 595 00:33:22,860 --> 00:33:25,540 Speaker 2: the arm of the chair and attempt to rise. I 596 00:33:25,660 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 2: aim at his head. With a look of horror, he 597 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,780 Speaker 2: quickly averts his face as I pull the trigger. There's 598 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,719 Speaker 2: a flash, and the high ceiling room reverberates as with 599 00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 2: the booming of a cannon. I hear a sharp, piercing cry, 600 00:33:37,180 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 2: and I see Frick on his knees, his head against 601 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,500 Speaker 2: the arm of the chair. I feel calm and possessed, 602 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,900 Speaker 2: intent upon every movement of the man. He's lying head 603 00:33:45,940 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 2: and shoulders under the large armchair, without a sound or motion. 604 00:33:50,620 --> 00:33:53,530 Speaker 2: About 25 feet separate us. I take a few steps 605 00:33:53,610 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 2: toward him, when suddenly the other man, who's presence I 606 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:02,140 Speaker 2: had quite forgotten, leaps upon me. Suddenly I hear the cry, murder, help! 607 00:34:02,820 --> 00:34:05,340 Speaker 2: My heart stands still as I realize that it is 608 00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:07,980 Speaker 2: Frick shouting. I mean, wow. 609 00:34:10,460 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: There are different stories about what happens next, but it's 610 00:34:14,260 --> 00:34:18,540 Speaker 1: clear that at some point, Berkman shoots Frick a second time. 611 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,980 Speaker 1: At some point, Berkman also stabs Frick in the leg. 612 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,040 Speaker 1: Frick fights back in some way, At some point, a 613 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: carpenter who was working in the building hits Berkman on 614 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: the head with a hammer and that does it. That 615 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,490 Speaker 1: subdues Berkman. So Frick has been shot. He's been stabbed, 616 00:34:36,590 --> 00:34:40,910 Speaker 1: but he doesn't die. And at least according to the story, 617 00:34:41,110 --> 00:34:44,020 Speaker 1: as Frick told it and as his friends told it, 618 00:34:44,650 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: Frick stayed at work, had a doctor come to the 619 00:34:48,460 --> 00:34:51,620 Speaker 1: office to remove the bullets and sew up his wounds 620 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: and finished his work for the day, and then he 621 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: did clearly send a cable to Carnegie, who, remember, was 622 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:58,540 Speaker 1: summering in Scotland. 623 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:02,500 Speaker 2: Was shot twice, but not dangerously. There's no necessity for 624 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 2: you to come home. I'm still in shape to fight 625 00:35:04,700 --> 00:35:05,299 Speaker 2: the battle out. 626 00:35:05,739 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: There was no chance Carnegie was going to come home. 627 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 2: I mean, he is the man working through pain and blood. 628 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,780 Speaker 1: Berkman also was not killed. 629 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,260 Speaker 2: Which we could tell from his writing. 630 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,270 Speaker 1: We could tell from his writing. He was tried. represented himself. 631 00:35:21,550 --> 00:35:23,589 Speaker 1: You know, I don't believe in your laws. I don't 632 00:35:23,630 --> 00:35:26,660 Speaker 1: accept the authority of your courts. He was, of course, convicted. 633 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,420 Speaker 1: Emma Goldman went into hiding for a while. Police raided 634 00:35:30,460 --> 00:35:34,779 Speaker 1: her apartment, but she was never charged. And Berkman, kind 635 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 1: of amazingly, got out of prison 14 years later. 636 00:35:38,469 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 2: Oh, still a young man. 637 00:35:39,670 --> 00:35:42,029 Speaker 1: And he and Emma Goldman spent much of the rest 638 00:35:42,050 --> 00:35:44,210 Speaker 1: of their lives together. They got kicked out of the U.S. 639 00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:46,460 Speaker 1: around the time of World War I. They spent some 640 00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: time in the Soviet Union, which they were disillusioned by. 641 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: They wrote a book about how the Soviet Union, not 642 00:35:51,180 --> 00:35:56,350 Speaker 1: so great. So, OK, back to Homestead, back to 1892. 643 00:35:56,350 --> 00:36:00,130 Speaker 1: Berkman has shot Frick. Of course, it is huge news 644 00:36:01,210 --> 00:36:05,920 Speaker 1: and crucially, not good news for the strikers, not good 645 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:06,739 Speaker 1: news at all. 646 00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 2: Until now, it was easy for lots of people to 647 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,340 Speaker 2: be on the workers' side. You know, you had a 648 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,580 Speaker 2: millionaire off in Scotland and a hard-ass CEO clamping down 649 00:36:16,820 --> 00:36:18,710 Speaker 2: versus a bunch of, you know, normal folk who just 650 00:36:18,730 --> 00:36:22,270 Speaker 2: want to keep their jobs. Now, it feels different. It 651 00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:25,110 Speaker 2: feels like the side of the union, the workers, includes, 652 00:36:25,270 --> 00:36:27,910 Speaker 2: you know, this crazy anarchist and all the anarchists who 653 00:36:27,950 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 2: people are genuinely afraid of. 654 00:36:29,739 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: Yes. And so it's like, oh, wait, no, if that's 655 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,739 Speaker 1: what this side is, I don't want to be on 656 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,549 Speaker 1: this side. And this is. 657 00:36:36,510 --> 00:36:38,630 Speaker 2: Immediately clear to the union. 658 00:36:38,910 --> 00:36:42,529 Speaker 1: The union itself issued a statement condemning the attack, saying they, 659 00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:44,969 Speaker 1: you know, hoped Frick would be OK. There was a 660 00:36:45,610 --> 00:36:49,180 Speaker 1: union paper, a newspaper called the National Labor Tribune that 661 00:36:49,219 --> 00:36:52,660 Speaker 1: called the attack a crime against both capital and workmen. 662 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,379 Speaker 1: But it didn't really matter, those statements. The anarchists had 663 00:36:56,420 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: that idea, the propaganda of the deed. And what Berkman 664 00:36:59,140 --> 00:37:01,879 Speaker 1: did was a kind of propaganda of the deed, but 665 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,580 Speaker 1: propaganda for the wrong side. Propaganda that ended up helping 666 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,570 Speaker 1: Carnegie and Frick. Hugh O'Donnell, the homestead worker who we 667 00:37:09,610 --> 00:37:11,950 Speaker 1: talked about who negotiated with the Pinkertons during the battle, 668 00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:14,009 Speaker 1: he wrote about this. Here's what he said. 669 00:37:14,330 --> 00:37:17,330 Speaker 2: The bullet from Berkman's pistol, failing in its foul attempt, 670 00:37:17,510 --> 00:37:19,810 Speaker 2: went straight through the heart of the homestead strike. 671 00:37:20,170 --> 00:37:23,589 Speaker 1: So indictments do start to come. for what happened on 672 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,489 Speaker 1: July 6th in that battle at Homestead. Interestingly, Frick and 673 00:37:27,530 --> 00:37:30,750 Speaker 1: a few other company leaders are indicted, but those indictments 674 00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:33,670 Speaker 1: never go anywhere. They never go to trial. More than 675 00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:39,410 Speaker 1: 100 townspeople from Homestead are indicted. The leaders, including McClucky, 676 00:37:39,590 --> 00:37:41,890 Speaker 1: the mayor we talked about, and O'Donnell, who you just quoted, 677 00:37:42,370 --> 00:37:46,009 Speaker 1: they were accused of murder, shockingly, also of treason. It's 678 00:37:46,030 --> 00:37:49,170 Speaker 1: this big, what is America kind of idea. None of 679 00:37:49,210 --> 00:37:53,390 Speaker 1: them were ever convicted. And Frick, with the support of 680 00:37:53,489 --> 00:37:56,890 Speaker 1: the National Guard in Homestead, is able to get the 681 00:37:56,989 --> 00:38:01,980 Speaker 1: plant up and running by August with replacement workers. The 682 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,339 Speaker 1: union officially stayed on strike a few months longer, but 683 00:38:04,380 --> 00:38:06,980 Speaker 1: it didn't matter at that point. It was clear they 684 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,859 Speaker 1: were going to lose. And they did lose. They didn't 685 00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: just lose a negotiating battle. They ceased to exist as 686 00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:19,780 Speaker 1: a union at Homestead. And this is very, very important. 687 00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: and historical because workers and owners at other steel mills 688 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,549 Speaker 1: were watching this. They were reading about it every day 689 00:38:26,570 --> 00:38:29,570 Speaker 1: in the paper. And they saw that owners could break 690 00:38:29,770 --> 00:38:34,250 Speaker 1: unions if they were sufficiently committed. And so owners did 691 00:38:34,310 --> 00:38:37,990 Speaker 1: break unions so that just a few years later, not 692 00:38:38,110 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: a single steel mill in Pennsylvania was unionized. And this 693 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: meant things for workers got worse. 12-hour shifts became more common. 694 00:38:49,780 --> 00:38:53,380 Speaker 1: This thing called the long-turn became more common. The long-turn 695 00:38:53,420 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: was every few weeks when workers would shift from the 696 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: day shift to the night shift. Some set of workers 697 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,340 Speaker 1: would work the long-turn, which means working 24 hours straight 698 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,819 Speaker 1: in a steel mill. And so the thing I want 699 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,950 Speaker 1: to make clear here is the outcome of the Homestead 700 00:39:08,989 --> 00:39:14,270 Speaker 1: Strike was labor really lost in a big, profound, long-term way, 701 00:39:14,489 --> 00:39:16,450 Speaker 1: and capital really won. 702 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 2: And it's surprising because we think, at least in the 1900s, 703 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,780 Speaker 2: of the return of the labor movement. But I didn't 704 00:39:24,820 --> 00:39:28,130 Speaker 2: actually know that there was this moment where the labor 705 00:39:28,170 --> 00:39:30,110 Speaker 2: movement was almost extinguished. 706 00:39:30,830 --> 00:39:33,630 Speaker 1: Yes. Well, and where things got worse for workers. I 707 00:39:33,650 --> 00:39:35,730 Speaker 1: knew things used to be bad for workers. But this 708 00:39:35,850 --> 00:39:38,989 Speaker 1: idea that, like, oh, at least these skilled workers were 709 00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:42,989 Speaker 1: doing relative for the time okay. And then they had 710 00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: this fight and they lost and they were much worse off. 711 00:39:47,460 --> 00:39:50,799 Speaker 1: And this persisted for a long time. Organized labor didn't 712 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,620 Speaker 1: go away entirely. People kept fighting, kept trying, but they 713 00:39:54,660 --> 00:39:59,460 Speaker 1: mostly lost, frankly. And it wasn't until the Great Depression, 714 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 1: the 1930s, that things really change. 715 00:40:02,660 --> 00:40:06,589 Speaker 2: We have such a devastating economy that everyone is open 716 00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:07,870 Speaker 2: to change at this point. 717 00:40:08,530 --> 00:40:12,270 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, we know in many, 718 00:40:12,330 --> 00:40:16,170 Speaker 1: many ways the economy is transformed during the 1930s. A 719 00:40:16,270 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: lot of the modern financial world and industrial world, as 720 00:40:20,620 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: we still live it, was created in that time. And 721 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,779 Speaker 1: that is true for labor as well. In 1935, the 722 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: National Labor Relations Act was passed. called the Wagner Act. 723 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: You might have heard of it as the Wagner Act. 724 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: And among other things, the law says employees are allowed 725 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,190 Speaker 1: to form unions. And when they do, the company has 726 00:40:40,270 --> 00:40:43,010 Speaker 1: to bargain with the union. At least that's a simplified 727 00:40:43,050 --> 00:40:46,009 Speaker 1: version of it. And this sets the stage for that 728 00:40:46,330 --> 00:40:50,710 Speaker 1: post-war boom in union membership in America. And so I 729 00:40:50,770 --> 00:40:53,690 Speaker 1: come back here to the government. You know, yes, it 730 00:40:53,770 --> 00:40:56,529 Speaker 1: is a fight of labor versus capital. And it does matter. 731 00:40:56,610 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 2: And the. 732 00:41:00,940 --> 00:41:05,020 Speaker 1: The rules of the fight are set by the government. 733 00:41:05,180 --> 00:41:08,510 Speaker 1: The government makes the laws, chooses how to enforce those laws. 734 00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:11,410 Speaker 1: It is creating the rules of the game. And so 735 00:41:11,810 --> 00:41:14,450 Speaker 1: what workers and owners are doing is playing that game. 736 00:41:14,510 --> 00:41:16,850 Speaker 1: And those rules can be very different. And often the 737 00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:18,470 Speaker 1: rules are what determine the outcome. 738 00:41:18,670 --> 00:41:21,860 Speaker 2: And it's really interesting to see the timescale here, how 739 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,620 Speaker 2: long it took for this story to unfold. You first 740 00:41:25,660 --> 00:41:30,029 Speaker 2: have unions getting going in the 1860s. But it takes 741 00:41:30,050 --> 00:41:33,419 Speaker 2: this violent turn 30 years later, where there's this real 742 00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:36,340 Speaker 2: confrontation to solve these problems that had not been solved 743 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,390 Speaker 2: over the last 30 years. 744 00:41:37,870 --> 00:41:38,190 Speaker 1: And then. 745 00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:42,069 Speaker 2: this really nadir, is that how you say it, of 746 00:41:42,090 --> 00:41:44,589 Speaker 2: the labor movement. And then 40 years after that, you 747 00:41:44,630 --> 00:41:48,879 Speaker 2: get this big shift again where workers have more power. 748 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 2: And so it really makes me think about when we 749 00:41:51,940 --> 00:41:55,060 Speaker 2: talk about something like AI today, and it's always like, 750 00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:57,740 Speaker 2: what's happening next month? What's going to happen in three months? 751 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,560 Speaker 2: But the shifts that happen in the economy, especially in 752 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,660 Speaker 2: something as fundamental as this, can take a long time. long, 753 00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:07,660 Speaker 2: long time to find a new equilibrium. 754 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,620 Speaker 1: And it'll be particularly interesting to see how that plays 755 00:42:10,780 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: out if, in fact, AI keeps advancing so quickly. You know, 756 00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:18,879 Speaker 1: the kind of political economy tends to move at this 757 00:42:18,980 --> 00:42:22,779 Speaker 1: generational pace. If there is some profound shift in work 758 00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: in three years, it's going to be hard for the politics, 759 00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:28,410 Speaker 1: for the rules of the game to keep up. 760 00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,030 Speaker 2: At least there aren't Pinkertons and not too many anarchists. Okay. 761 00:42:33,739 --> 00:42:35,259 Speaker 1: That is basically the end of the story. But I 762 00:42:35,300 --> 00:42:37,270 Speaker 1: want to do a little epilogue here, like the way 763 00:42:37,290 --> 00:42:39,430 Speaker 1: at the end of the movie, they sort of, while 764 00:42:39,450 --> 00:42:41,110 Speaker 1: the credits are rolling, they tell you what happened to 765 00:42:41,130 --> 00:42:42,569 Speaker 1: all the people in the movie. I want to do 766 00:42:42,610 --> 00:42:45,549 Speaker 1: that with the people who we've been talking about. And 767 00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: I want to start with the workers. You know, we 768 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,840 Speaker 1: talked specifically about McLuckie and O'Donnell, these two of the 769 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,660 Speaker 1: workers who were central in Homestead in the strike. They 770 00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: were both blacklisted. So nobody in the steel industry would 771 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,470 Speaker 1: hire them. This was also a common tactic at the time. 772 00:43:01,950 --> 00:43:05,730 Speaker 1: also later made illegal under modern labor law. So they 773 00:43:05,750 --> 00:43:09,430 Speaker 1: couldn't work in the steel industry anymore. McLuckie wound up 774 00:43:09,790 --> 00:43:12,650 Speaker 1: moving to Mexico. I saw one source that said he 775 00:43:12,690 --> 00:43:15,730 Speaker 1: got a job on the railroad there. For O'Donnell, the 776 00:43:15,770 --> 00:43:18,489 Speaker 1: last thing I could find was this newspaper report from 777 00:43:18,489 --> 00:43:22,840 Speaker 1: 1905 that said he'd got a job as a factory inspector, 778 00:43:22,860 --> 00:43:25,940 Speaker 1: I guess working for the state government, but he had 779 00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:30,250 Speaker 1: contracted tuberculosis and was moving to New Mexico. Okay, now, 780 00:43:30,290 --> 00:43:32,100 Speaker 1: Frick and Carnegie, the guys who we know more. 781 00:43:31,989 --> 00:43:33,779 Speaker 2: About, somewhat happier ending. 782 00:43:33,980 --> 00:43:36,900 Speaker 1: For them, yeah. I mean, Carnegie was clearly embarrassed by 783 00:43:36,940 --> 00:43:39,860 Speaker 1: what happened at Homestead. You know, he told people he 784 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:41,980 Speaker 1: would have handled it differently. He wouldn't have brought in 785 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,049 Speaker 1: the Pinkertons, but whatever. You went to Scotland. Live with it. 786 00:43:45,590 --> 00:43:48,069 Speaker 1: But clearly, things were never the same between Carnegie and 787 00:43:48,110 --> 00:43:52,730 Speaker 1: Frick after this. Frick wound up resigning in 1899. He 788 00:43:52,750 --> 00:43:56,130 Speaker 1: and Carnegie fought over money, and they never spoke after 1900. 789 00:43:56,110 --> 00:43:56,450 Speaker 2: As for Carnegie. 790 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 1: In 1901, J.P. Morgan bought Carnegie Steel to create his 791 00:44:04,660 --> 00:44:08,959 Speaker 1: new mega company, U.S. Steel. And at that moment, Andrew 792 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: Carnegie became the richest man in the world. 793 00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:15,100 Speaker 2: And when people think about Carnegie to this day, they 794 00:44:15,140 --> 00:44:17,259 Speaker 2: do not think about the strike. They don't think about 795 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,610 Speaker 2: the Pinkertons or the violence. They think about the libraries 796 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,850 Speaker 2: he funded, his university, Carnegie Hall. It's almost like he 797 00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:25,529 Speaker 2: planned it that way. 798 00:44:26,310 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: Today's show... was produced by Gabriel Hunter Chang, engineered by 799 00:44:30,980 --> 00:44:34,270 Speaker 1: Sarah Bruguier. Our video editor, because we are on YouTube, 800 00:44:34,370 --> 00:44:38,790 Speaker 1: is Matt Nielsen. Our showrunner and editor is Ryan Dilley. 801 00:44:39,810 --> 00:44:40,569 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein. 802 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 2: I'm Robert Smith. Thanks for listening.