WEBVTT - Introducing: The Last Archivist

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<v Speaker 1>Pushkin Hey, Last Archive listeners, this is Jill Lapour. We're

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<v Speaker 1>hard at work on season three and can't wait to

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<v Speaker 1>share it with you. It's all about reason, about finding

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<v Speaker 1>our way towards hope and common knowledge and out of

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<v Speaker 1>the epistemological pickle we explored in seasons one and two.

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<v Speaker 1>But making a new season takes time, so meanwhile, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to introduce you to a new limited run series

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm doing, called The Last Archivist. Over the years,

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<v Speaker 1>I've met hundreds and hundreds of archivists, collectors, curators, librarians,

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<v Speaker 1>keepers of history, people with trinkets and facts and ideas

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<v Speaker 1>that I want to add to our collection of the

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<v Speaker 1>known things. In this series, you'll hear from a few

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<v Speaker 1>of them about their work, like how to sit up

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<v Speaker 1>a library in a prison, what four decades worth of

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<v Speaker 1>eyeglasses can tell us about the history of a person,

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<v Speaker 1>And why a trash collector in Pittsburgh is a kind

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<v Speaker 1>of archivist too. It's gonna be fun. This series is

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<v Speaker 1>just for Pushkin Plus subscribers, but we're dropping the first

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<v Speaker 1>episode for you here in the feed. If you want

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<v Speaker 1>to hear the rest, subscribe at the Last Archive show

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<v Speaker 1>page and Apple podcasts or go to pushkin dot fm,

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<v Speaker 1>slash plus and thanks for listening. Welcome to The Last Archivist,

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<v Speaker 1>the show where I talked to archivists about the collections

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<v Speaker 1>and records they keep and why. In this episode, I

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<v Speaker 1>talked to Reginald Dwayne Betts. He's the author of three books,

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<v Speaker 1>including Felon, a collection of poems about the effects of incarceration.

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<v Speaker 1>He's also an actor, a lawyer, and a teacher, and

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<v Speaker 1>the recipient of a MacArthur Genius Grant. We talked about

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<v Speaker 1>Freedom Reads, an organization Bets started to bring literature to

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<v Speaker 1>jails in prison across the country. Bets was incarcerated as

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<v Speaker 1>a teenager and given a nine year sentence. While in prison,

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<v Speaker 1>a fellow inmate gave him a book and it changed

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<v Speaker 1>his life. He wants to give other incarcerated people that

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<v Speaker 1>experience too, so he's building libraries in prison cells. But

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<v Speaker 1>I'll let him tell you about it. My name is

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<v Speaker 1>regend Dwayne Betts, and I'm the founder and director of

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<v Speaker 1>Freedom Reads, a project that is meant to curate and

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<v Speaker 1>build freedom libraries and prisons across this country. Thanks so

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<v Speaker 1>much for doing this when you have so much going on.

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<v Speaker 1>This is really really exciting. So I wanted to talk

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<v Speaker 1>to you about the Freedom library as an archive in

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<v Speaker 1>a collection. I have this podcast that's about kind of

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<v Speaker 1>where knowledge lives, like where we store ideas and memories,

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<v Speaker 1>and so I'm kind of fascinated, like, of all the

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<v Speaker 1>things that you could have done, most of which you're

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<v Speaker 1>actually also doing different forms of prison education or prison

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<v Speaker 1>writing programs, or your own poetry and memoir writing, your

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<v Speaker 1>own performance. Why a library, you know, honestly, I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like maybe library is the most radical thing I imagine

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<v Speaker 1>being able to be done. But also it's the thing

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<v Speaker 1>that's absolutely quintessential to some movement, to actual building of

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<v Speaker 1>a community, to actually build another civilization, to actually build

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<v Speaker 1>another democracy. It's like, where's your repository of language? And

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<v Speaker 1>what does it mean to actually make that accessible? And

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<v Speaker 1>not make it accessible in a symbolic way. A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of us don't live in a world with a library

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<v Speaker 1>actually functions as pure symbol. We think about some public

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<v Speaker 1>schools that aren't the greatest schools. They still have libraries

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<v Speaker 1>in the school and they still push the students to

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<v Speaker 1>attend to go to those libraries. And maybe everybody doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>go to the new York Public Library who lives in

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<v Speaker 1>New York. But that's why they have satellite branches, and

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<v Speaker 1>those libraries work really hard to make the services amenable

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<v Speaker 1>and attractive to everybody in the community. In prison, you're

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<v Speaker 1>lucky if you could get to the library once some money,

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<v Speaker 1>and when you get that, you have twenty five minutes.

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<v Speaker 1>And so, you know, I remember coming home and people

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<v Speaker 1>will criticize me because I hadn't read a lot of Shakespeare,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was like, well, why would I have read

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of Shakespeare. I was going to the library

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<v Speaker 1>for twenty five minutes. I just had time to go

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<v Speaker 1>to what I hungered for. I didn't have the time

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<v Speaker 1>to explore what I might want. And so for me,

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<v Speaker 1>it was both a process of curation in a process

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<v Speaker 1>of creating the expectation for others. And I thought, well,

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<v Speaker 1>what does it mean when I create the expectation from

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<v Speaker 1>somebody who's doing time in prison to end up in

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<v Speaker 1>these spaces. In conversations with Sonya Sanchez, I mean, in

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<v Speaker 1>conversations with Jill Lapoor, you were publishing books, you were

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<v Speaker 1>a scholar when I was in prison, and I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know that you existed. And that's that's like a tragedy,

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<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. It's like, how might my

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<v Speaker 1>world have been different had I been hipped to more

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<v Speaker 1>than just that one historical text that people quote. And

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<v Speaker 1>so I feel like, you know, I want to have

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<v Speaker 1>a role and saying that the books matter because the

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<v Speaker 1>books matter. You know, the books don't matter because you

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna read them and necessarily become something different. They

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<v Speaker 1>matter because it's the foundational principle of trying to build

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<v Speaker 1>something more and without it, you can't build more. So

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<v Speaker 1>the question I have are you working on this project

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<v Speaker 1>or the Freedom Library, is whether it's changed how you

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<v Speaker 1>think about books. You know, we can think about books

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<v Speaker 1>as a gift or a book says a refuge, books

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<v Speaker 1>as an escape, Like, there are lots of different ways

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<v Speaker 1>we think about books. I'm wondering if you're thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>books has changed in a couple of ways. One, I've

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<v Speaker 1>realized how a lot of us have a common vocabulary,

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<v Speaker 1>and I've thought about how to push against that. And

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<v Speaker 1>so certain books come up and you see that because

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<v Speaker 1>you share experiences and you share education, folks are where

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<v Speaker 1>those books. But then I've watched how in conversation you

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<v Speaker 1>see that the really beautiful moments come when when it's

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<v Speaker 1>an introduction of a book that somebody hadn't heard of.

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<v Speaker 1>So one of the things I've noticed is that in

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<v Speaker 1>curating a collection, you work very hard to see people

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<v Speaker 1>I do. So I can't just have the run of

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<v Speaker 1>books that you will read as a PhD student in

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<v Speaker 1>sociology or a PhD student in law or PhD student

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<v Speaker 1>in history. It has to be far more complex than that.

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<v Speaker 1>Going up and down. I recognize that, you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>dog books have to have light in it, and you

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<v Speaker 1>have to understand what that light means, and it can't

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<v Speaker 1>just be because somebody said it so. But also I

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<v Speaker 1>recognize that it is fifteen different ways to understand every book.

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<v Speaker 1>And I've been having arguments with people who say, well,

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<v Speaker 1>Jane Austen means this, I don't know like and somebody

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<v Speaker 1>will say, are you really I'm going to include hard

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<v Speaker 1>of Darkness? I mean, don't you understand. Layla Lalami wrote

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<v Speaker 1>a beautiful introduction to that book where she talked about

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<v Speaker 1>it was the first book in the English language she read.

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<v Speaker 1>We bring meaning to books in the same way they

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<v Speaker 1>bring meanings to us, and the question is what can

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<v Speaker 1>I make a community aware of as I do this work,

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<v Speaker 1>and so in developing this library, I'm trying really hard

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<v Speaker 1>to engage with people in a way in which they've

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<v Speaker 1>remind me of their similar stories, so that some of

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<v Speaker 1>those books creep into this library and it's not and

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<v Speaker 1>it becomes an enterprise that allows people to meet themselves

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<v Speaker 1>where they are and grow somewhere. But it also becomes

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<v Speaker 1>i think, a symbol or that very process of becoming

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<v Speaker 1>and not this idea of like, you know, if I

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<v Speaker 1>had the books, Like if I was like, who are

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<v Speaker 1>you as a lawyer? And I put towards and contracts

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<v Speaker 1>and then you looked at that bookshelf, it wouldn't really

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<v Speaker 1>communicate much except the finish line. But every beautiful library

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<v Speaker 1>I think reflects more to journey. So what do you

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<v Speaker 1>hear from readers? I should tell you, Like one guy,

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<v Speaker 1>he says, oh you you send it in um Man

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<v Speaker 1>Search for mena man that book changed my life. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you, I was in a bad way and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm looking at this guy and I'm like yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>it was so shoo bought it and it's like just

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<v Speaker 1>like forty He's like late thirties. Black dude, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and like deeply talking about that's the book that made

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<v Speaker 1>me reimagine the world. But other things though, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>some guys that I met who really became educated in

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<v Speaker 1>prison he said, he said, uh, my man, Richard talks about,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, being stomped out by the guards. He had

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<v Speaker 1>swung on one of the CEOs and then they beat

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<v Speaker 1>him up real bad, broke his teeth and being on

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<v Speaker 1>the floor, mouth bloody, and later reflecting on it and

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about how that was just KMO moment where you

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<v Speaker 1>make a decision about whether you want to live or

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<v Speaker 1>you just want to give up, And you know, it's like,

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<v Speaker 1>it's something radical about talking to these guys who who

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<v Speaker 1>get that kind of work from books. And it's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>because the books get you just up to that ledge

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<v Speaker 1>where the next thing you under you start asking this,

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<v Speaker 1>but how do we respond to the world given the

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<v Speaker 1>decisions that were made? And how do we want the

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<v Speaker 1>world to respond to us given the decisions that we made.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's been it's been powerful. And some people haven't

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<v Speaker 1>liked some book, you know, and it's saying and sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>the DFC administrators are like, what people don't like the books?

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, that's okay. So that's part of it too.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, you don't have to like every book. I think,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I told, I told the warden, say, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>part of my challenge is to remind people why these

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<v Speaker 1>books matter, but also put emphasis on these and books

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<v Speaker 1>and it's not singular, so maybe something else will jump

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<v Speaker 1>out to him. Um. And I've been reminded of that,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's been a nice lesson for myself as like

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<v Speaker 1>a writer and a thinker who sometimes gets sad when

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<v Speaker 1>people don't love. What I say is that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the junk, these these young folks and just men and

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<v Speaker 1>women in prison have sometimes not like books that I love,

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<v Speaker 1>and I have to accept that and so do the writers. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>but also discriminating between the books that you love and

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<v Speaker 1>you hate. It's kind of the spark too, like that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's how you find out who you are, Like I'm

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<v Speaker 1>a person who hates Melville. Let's now. I know that

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<v Speaker 1>that's a lesson though honestly though, because I think that

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<v Speaker 1>you have to have a certain kind of so confidence

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<v Speaker 1>to really dislike a book. I know the first book

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<v Speaker 1>that I vehemently disliked, and I know my response was

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<v Speaker 1>the writer ten page essay about how I disliked the

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<v Speaker 1>book and I was in solitary confinement. And I would

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<v Speaker 1>never forget that book. I'll never forget the ideas in it.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll never forget exactly what made me dislike it. And

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<v Speaker 1>and I've only read it once, and I know it.

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<v Speaker 1>I know it in ways that I don't know books

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<v Speaker 1>that I love. It was all God's Children, Fox Butterfield,

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<v Speaker 1>about Willie, about Willie Boskett. He was the kid that

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<v Speaker 1>led to the New York Youth Offender law. But I

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<v Speaker 1>know what prison I was at, I know what sale

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<v Speaker 1>I was in. I know that I paid for the book.

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<v Speaker 1>God damn it. Yeah. Yeah, But then you own your ideas,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like that's the freedom of that, Like you

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<v Speaker 1>own your opinion about that book. Well, you don't have much,

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<v Speaker 1>like you can own that, especially when you don't have much.

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<v Speaker 1>And I also think that's one of the powers of

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<v Speaker 1>the libraries that you know, when you don't have much,

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<v Speaker 1>you do have your own ideas, and books help you

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<v Speaker 1>develop your ideas, to help I had ideas post reading

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<v Speaker 1>that book that I didn't have before. You know, reading

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<v Speaker 1>that book helped me understand the world around me. In

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<v Speaker 1>a way that I didn't before I read the book,

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<v Speaker 1>because I needed to be confronted with arguments I disagree

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<v Speaker 1>with to help me know what I cared about. In

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<v Speaker 1>the same way, in novels, you know, you get confronted

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<v Speaker 1>with these characters that bother you. I mean, it makes

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<v Speaker 1>you know why, you know, and it makes you maybe

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<v Speaker 1>change some of the ways that you act in the

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<v Speaker 1>world's like I don't maybe I was like him. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't I want to be like him or heard, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to act like they do. So, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>to imagine yourself being in the role in the place

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<v Speaker 1>of another human being making a choice is to imagine choices,

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<v Speaker 1>and in a way that you know, is about fully

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<v Speaker 1>figuring out who you are. So you started sending out

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<v Speaker 1>books already to prisons and to juvenile detention centers, and

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<v Speaker 1>you're also involved in the building of physical bookshelves for

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<v Speaker 1>the Is that right for the library to be housed in?

0:12:06.676 --> 0:12:10.556
<v Speaker 1>How's that working? How's that work? It's actually fantastic. I

0:12:10.556 --> 0:12:12.156
<v Speaker 1>Mean one of the ideas was, okay, what if we

0:12:12.196 --> 0:12:13.636
<v Speaker 1>just build books, And then some people said, but why

0:12:13.636 --> 0:12:16.036
<v Speaker 1>don't you just give books away? You know, why build

0:12:16.076 --> 0:12:19.556
<v Speaker 1>a space. Would you say that about your local library,

0:12:19.636 --> 0:12:21.476
<v Speaker 1>would you say, why build a space? You know, but

0:12:21.516 --> 0:12:24.156
<v Speaker 1>a library is not just a collection of books to

0:12:24.236 --> 0:12:28.156
<v Speaker 1>strewn on the floor or placed on shelves. It's actually

0:12:28.196 --> 0:12:31.996
<v Speaker 1>like some organizational structure that invites people to come towards it.

0:12:32.396 --> 0:12:34.596
<v Speaker 1>And so that was a problem. How do you create

0:12:34.676 --> 0:12:36.596
<v Speaker 1>that kind of space? How do you create a micro

0:12:36.756 --> 0:12:40.316
<v Speaker 1>library within a building that only has straight lines and

0:12:40.436 --> 0:12:44.396
<v Speaker 1>right angles that typically your understanding of it is only

0:12:44.396 --> 0:12:46.796
<v Speaker 1>based on violence. And it has to be more than

0:12:47.156 --> 0:12:49.756
<v Speaker 1>like the bookshelf behind me. And so we created something beautiful.

0:12:49.796 --> 0:12:52.116
<v Speaker 1>We had them design something that has curves because no

0:12:52.196 --> 0:12:54.956
<v Speaker 1>curves exist in prison. We had them designed something when

0:12:54.996 --> 0:12:57.636
<v Speaker 1>you can access to books on both sides, because we

0:12:57.676 --> 0:13:00.796
<v Speaker 1>want people to come together and meet at the stacks,

0:13:01.316 --> 0:13:03.116
<v Speaker 1>you know, and be able to communicate with each other.

0:13:03.276 --> 0:13:05.756
<v Speaker 1>And what's really de fascinating is that it's forced me

0:13:06.316 --> 0:13:08.356
<v Speaker 1>to gain knowledge from others, you know, It's forced me

0:13:08.396 --> 0:13:10.836
<v Speaker 1>to accept what I'm not an expert in. So I'm

0:13:10.916 --> 0:13:13.876
<v Speaker 1>learning what sheep goods are. I'm learning that some woods

0:13:13.876 --> 0:13:16.156
<v Speaker 1>are soft and some words at heart. And I'm working

0:13:16.196 --> 0:13:20.316
<v Speaker 1>with the Department of Corrections and recognizing that prisons are

0:13:20.396 --> 0:13:23.116
<v Speaker 1>violent places, and so we have to build a structure

0:13:23.116 --> 0:13:25.876
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't hurt somebody, you know, we have to build

0:13:25.876 --> 0:13:28.836
<v Speaker 1>a structure where the wood isn't so soft that it

0:13:28.876 --> 0:13:31.156
<v Speaker 1>could be piled and turned in the weapons. I mean,

0:13:31.316 --> 0:13:34.396
<v Speaker 1>these are like serious considerations that I think going to

0:13:34.476 --> 0:13:37.476
<v Speaker 1>creating something beautiful, but going to creating something beautiful within

0:13:37.516 --> 0:13:40.876
<v Speaker 1>the context where it exists, recognizing at once it's created,

0:13:41.036 --> 0:13:42.516
<v Speaker 1>all of us will want this in our house. And

0:13:42.556 --> 0:13:45.156
<v Speaker 1>so I'm trying to bridge the gap between prison and

0:13:45.196 --> 0:13:47.996
<v Speaker 1>freedom in such a way that it makes another argument

0:13:48.076 --> 0:13:52.156
<v Speaker 1>for not needing prison. But it's acknowledging the conditions of

0:13:52.236 --> 0:13:56.596
<v Speaker 1>incarceration right now and looked and fascinating. And you're the

0:13:56.636 --> 0:14:00.276
<v Speaker 1>first person publicly I've told this. You know already Norton

0:14:00.476 --> 0:14:03.476
<v Speaker 1>of Malcolm X fame, they gutted a prison cell, and

0:14:03.556 --> 0:14:06.596
<v Speaker 1>we're turning a prison cell into a library. And I

0:14:06.676 --> 0:14:09.236
<v Speaker 1>think that that is just like, you know, if I

0:14:09.316 --> 0:14:12.596
<v Speaker 1>was a person who gets emotional and hadn't been like,

0:14:13.076 --> 0:14:17.156
<v Speaker 1>you know, radically transformed by prison in both good and

0:14:17.196 --> 0:14:19.436
<v Speaker 1>bad ways, I will be weeping at the very idea

0:14:19.556 --> 0:14:21.836
<v Speaker 1>that um, you know, I was once in a hold

0:14:21.876 --> 0:14:24.716
<v Speaker 1>with books will contraband, and then we'll turn in a

0:14:24.796 --> 0:14:28.196
<v Speaker 1>prison cell into a library. I mean it is literally

0:14:28.556 --> 0:14:33.516
<v Speaker 1>both a metaphor but an actual material fulfillment of some

0:14:33.596 --> 0:14:38.836
<v Speaker 1>promise that that I always hope was possible. You know,

0:14:38.836 --> 0:14:41.556
<v Speaker 1>it makes me think about her here. I remember reading

0:14:41.596 --> 0:14:43.836
<v Speaker 1>that when Charles Dickens came to the United States in

0:14:43.876 --> 0:14:47.276
<v Speaker 1>eighteen forty two, he was really interested in prison reform,

0:14:47.276 --> 0:14:50.756
<v Speaker 1>and um, he went to this prison in Philadelphia where

0:14:51.956 --> 0:14:55.836
<v Speaker 1>solitary confinnement was a kind of a new practice, and

0:14:55.876 --> 0:14:58.036
<v Speaker 1>he was allowed to see someone who had been in

0:14:58.076 --> 0:15:01.476
<v Speaker 1>solitary confinement. Dickens was hugely opposed to solitary convironment and

0:15:01.676 --> 0:15:04.356
<v Speaker 1>opposed to the conditions in the prisons. And he met

0:15:04.396 --> 0:15:07.116
<v Speaker 1>this man who who just lost it, like he just

0:15:07.196 --> 0:15:11.116
<v Speaker 1>lost it in solitary and he he had been given

0:15:11.156 --> 0:15:14.196
<v Speaker 1>like a single newspaper sheet and he had made a

0:15:14.236 --> 0:15:16.276
<v Speaker 1>hat out of it, and he wore this hat made

0:15:16.276 --> 0:15:19.036
<v Speaker 1>out of a newspaper. And it's just like this wrenching

0:15:19.116 --> 0:15:22.156
<v Speaker 1>moment in this account of Dickens's, like this was his

0:15:22.596 --> 0:15:26.156
<v Speaker 1>reckoning with America, that this weird American moment was like

0:15:26.996 --> 0:15:31.036
<v Speaker 1>watching that mind, you know, be kind of put into

0:15:31.076 --> 0:15:34.196
<v Speaker 1>this cell and the way that this man was trying

0:15:34.196 --> 0:15:38.036
<v Speaker 1>to escape. I don't know, just thinking about the cell

0:15:38.116 --> 0:15:42.876
<v Speaker 1>being turned into a library as this just incredible, almost

0:15:42.916 --> 0:15:46.036
<v Speaker 1>like Dickenzie and feel of the kind of the magnitude

0:15:46.036 --> 0:15:49.516
<v Speaker 1>of that, you know, Symbolically, for me, it was walking

0:15:49.556 --> 0:15:53.796
<v Speaker 1>down those corridors and filling the way that the stones

0:15:54.036 --> 0:15:57.676
<v Speaker 1>carry memory, and the way that the memory of those stones,

0:15:57.836 --> 0:16:00.956
<v Speaker 1>I mean they carried the memories that guy from Dickens,

0:16:01.756 --> 0:16:05.516
<v Speaker 1>you know, his mind unraveling because somebody felt like the

0:16:05.516 --> 0:16:07.436
<v Speaker 1>way to transform you was to put you in a

0:16:07.556 --> 0:16:10.316
<v Speaker 1>dark hole and leave you there, and today decided you

0:16:10.316 --> 0:16:12.796
<v Speaker 1>should be free. And you know, a part of the

0:16:12.836 --> 0:16:16.036
<v Speaker 1>project is to make people recognize that. So when people say,

0:16:16.436 --> 0:16:18.356
<v Speaker 1>but really, you want to build a library in a sale,

0:16:18.916 --> 0:16:22.996
<v Speaker 1>I say, it's one library in one sale in America,

0:16:23.036 --> 0:16:26.396
<v Speaker 1>but it's two point three million people in all of

0:16:26.396 --> 0:16:29.316
<v Speaker 1>the other sales. And the question becomes, do you want

0:16:29.316 --> 0:16:32.116
<v Speaker 1>to talk to me about the library that I built

0:16:32.116 --> 0:16:34.236
<v Speaker 1>in that sale or do you want to talk to

0:16:34.236 --> 0:16:36.516
<v Speaker 1>me about the two point three million people that we

0:16:36.636 --> 0:16:39.036
<v Speaker 1>filled all of the other sales with. Because I bet

0:16:39.036 --> 0:16:41.476
<v Speaker 1>if we filled all of those other sales up with libraries,

0:16:41.756 --> 0:16:44.676
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't be room for people, and nobody would have

0:16:44.676 --> 0:16:47.796
<v Speaker 1>a problem with those books being there, no matter how

0:16:47.796 --> 0:16:50.196
<v Speaker 1>decrepit the building was. We will find out a way

0:16:50.196 --> 0:16:52.236
<v Speaker 1>to get to those books because we have value in it.

0:16:52.636 --> 0:16:53.956
<v Speaker 1>How can we all find a way to get to

0:16:53.996 --> 0:16:58.516
<v Speaker 1>those people. Yeah, that's beautiful. I am just sell impressed

0:16:58.756 --> 0:17:01.556
<v Speaker 1>by everything that you're doing and by the just the

0:17:01.756 --> 0:17:06.476
<v Speaker 1>scale of this project. And it's just deep humanity and

0:17:06.556 --> 0:17:09.956
<v Speaker 1>it's really gonna stick with me thinking about what it

0:17:09.996 --> 0:17:12.836
<v Speaker 1>means to care about each of those two point three

0:17:12.836 --> 0:17:15.356
<v Speaker 1>million people the way we care about the books in

0:17:15.396 --> 0:17:18.996
<v Speaker 1>our libraries. And I just want to thank you so

0:17:19.076 --> 0:17:22.116
<v Speaker 1>much for everything you're doing and for taking a time

0:17:22.156 --> 0:17:24.796
<v Speaker 1>to talk with us. Well, I'm super humble, and I

0:17:24.916 --> 0:17:27.316
<v Speaker 1>thank you for participating and for caring about it. You know,

0:17:27.316 --> 0:17:29.956
<v Speaker 1>it's like it's it's probably the coolest thing I've ever

0:17:29.996 --> 0:17:32.236
<v Speaker 1>done in this life, you know, if I would have

0:17:32.276 --> 0:17:34.916
<v Speaker 1>picked one. And I'm glad that other people share some

0:17:34.996 --> 0:17:40.276
<v Speaker 1>of my finess for it. Thanks for listening. That was

0:17:40.316 --> 0:17:43.236
<v Speaker 1>Reginald Dwayne Betts. You can find out more about Freedom

0:17:43.236 --> 0:17:46.756
<v Speaker 1>Reads at freedom reads dot org. If you want to

0:17:46.796 --> 0:17:49.596
<v Speaker 1>hear the rest of the series, subscribe to pushkin Plus

0:17:49.996 --> 0:17:52.796
<v Speaker 1>look for the last archive, show page and Apple podcasts,

0:17:53.196 --> 0:17:56.596
<v Speaker 1>or go to pushkin, dot fm, slash plus, and if

0:17:56.596 --> 0:18:01.156
<v Speaker 1>you're already a subscriber, thank you. This episode was produced

0:18:01.196 --> 0:18:04.516
<v Speaker 1>by Lucy Sullivan. Music by Stillwagon Symphony