WEBVTT - Life on Earth Two 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.560 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to will Kate f Daily 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:21.920 with Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, God, 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:28.160 you know I have to say this that I know 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.559 that it's Tuesday, but over the weekend, the news that 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:39.720 came out about Donald Trump his hate rally and referring 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:45.840 to immigrants and migrants as animals and saying that there 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.800 is going to be a bloodbath if he's not elected, 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:55.000 and it's like, folks, how much more information do you 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.920 fucking need? That this man is a fuck the game 0:01:00.680 --> 0:01:07.320 like dictator, Nazi, you know, authoritarian in the making. He 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:10.680 was caught on a hot mic saying, you know, Kim 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.360 Jong UN's people like when he talks, like they listen, 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:18.440 And that's what I want. He's a fucking dictator, a 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:22.800 pariah on the world stage. But all you want is 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:29.199 absolute fucking power and people kissing your ring and your feet, 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.800 and you being thought of as the most intelligent, the 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:37.240 best looking, the thinnest, the most athletic, right genius that 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:40.319 ever walked the face of this earth. Except guess what, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.959 that would be a fucking lie, because for the rest 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.920 of us that live on Earth two, that's not where 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:52.120 we are. I'm calling it Earth two now, folks, because 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.120 you know, I know that they'll say Earth one is 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.520 the original Earth. Earth two. No, because I want to 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:58.880 get the fuck I want them to have Earth one. 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:00.760 Do you know what I'm saying. I want to be 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:05.880 somewhere else because it is just getting to be so 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.800 fucking much to take in, and the media is once 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:18.320 again failing, failing, failing. I see headlines like, oh, Donald Trump, 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:22.440 you know, uh speaks out of turn or goes off script. No, 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.960 you fucking idiots, He's not going off script. Being an 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:32.400 authoritarian is the script, that's the play, and to not 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:34.800 call it out, to not say what it is, is 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:41.440 fucking malpractice. I just I'm beside myself. I'm beside myself. 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.760 It doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't. Continuing on 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.880 the theme of Donald Trump and just, you know, not 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:57.840 making any sense, is that, you know, basically he can't 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:02.400 come up with the money that uh Tis James was 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:06.240 awarded in the New York fraud case. He needs in 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.920 order to be able to appeal the decision of four 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.560 hundred and I believe fifty four million dollars. In order 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:15.880 to appeal that you have to post the bond for 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.240 that exact amount of money. Well, if you're keeping track 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.440 at home, he already posted a bond of ninety one 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:26.080 point whatever million dollars for the Egene Carroll case to 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.119 appeal that, so that she wouldn't get that money, right, 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:31.480 But he can't come up with the four hundred and 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.160 fifty four million, and you sure as fuck can't go 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:38.800 to the same people. And so his attorneys are saying, well, 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:43.000 you know, they'd they've faced some considerable hurdles. Yeah, those 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.240 hurdles are a whole bunch of no's. You know why, 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:49.320 because he's not fucking good for it. So how is 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.560 it that Donald Trump's attorneys at once walts into a 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:56.040 courtroom and say that he is a multi billionaire, but 0:03:56.080 --> 0:04:01.440 you can't come up with half a billion? So one 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:03.480 of these things ain't right. 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:06.520 He's not a. 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:11.000 Multi billionaire because even if it was tied up in 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:16.960 other assets, you could essentially put up right something else 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.200 as saying, well, this is the value of X, so 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.680 I can put that up as a bod He don't 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:29.359 have it, folks. It is just the place that we 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.479 are in, right, like the place that we are in 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:38.440 that we continually find ourselves. For me is just I'm exhausted. 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.800 I'm exhausted most days. You know. It's like the weekends 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:47.040 come and go. They feel like they happen within a 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:51.640 blink of an eye. And I honestly, I would like 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.200 to go backwards right Like I would like to just 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.880 take a time machine. Which is why, you know, frankly, 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:05.920 I'm excited for my next guest coming up. Uh Susie Banikarim, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:11.680 who is the Emmy Award winning journalist behind the podcast 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:18.920 in Retrospec where each week her alongside New York Times 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.920 editor Jessica Bennett, revisit a pop culture moment from the 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:27.040 eighties and nineties that shaped them to try and understand 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.120 what it taught us about the world and a woman's 0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:33.560 place in it. And I thought to myself, like, how 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:38.040 fun is this? Right? Because who didn't love the eighties 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.160 and the nineties and so many moments that like, when 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.120 we look back at them, we're like, wow, this was 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:48.080 like a moment. How do we think about it now? 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.840 And through which lens are we actually looking at it with? 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:55.320 So Susie and I get into really good conversation about 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:58.320 her pod, but also about politics in general and the 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.040 ways in which we look at things in the responsibility 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.839 of journalism. So I'm really excited for you to hear 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:12.280 that conversation, which is coming up next. Folks. I am 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.200 very excited to welcome to OOKF Daily for the very 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:20.680 first time, Susie Banakurem, who is the host of the 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:26.120 podcast In Retrospect, who is an Emmy winning journalist and filmmaker, 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:31.320 and also directed the twenty twenty documentary Enemies of the People, 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:36.920 Trump and the Political Press. So, Sissy, first, I would 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.200 like to talk about your documentary because I think that 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:44.560 where we are right now, where my anger is and remains, 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:50.680 is in what seems like the mainstream media's inability to 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:55.320 handle a character, a figure like Donald Trump. And so 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:59.839 talk to us about your twenty twenty documentary film and 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:00.880 what you learned. 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:03.960 Yeah, I mean, I think that Donald Trump is a 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.800 fairly unique figure in American history, and the press just 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.440 really has never figured out how to cover him as 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:13.600 a political candidate. In the beginning, they treated him like 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.880 he was an oddity, like a joke. He was fun, 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:19.440 he was good for ratings, so they gave him a 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:21.920 lot of attention, thinking he wasn't a serious candidate, and 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.360 once he became a serious candidate, they didn't really do 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:26.520 a good job of adjusting, you know what I mean. 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:30.200 It's like they don't adapt in that era in the 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.880 twenty sixteen election very quickly to the fact that now 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:35.840 he's the front runner and they do have to treat 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:37.840 him like a serious candidate, and they have to ask 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.600 serious questions about the policies he's presenting, the way he's 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.760 presenting them, And so he gets kind of this past 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:47.560 in the twenty sixteen election, right, he gets to do 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.600 a lot of things that no normal candidate would be 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.360 able to do, which is like just give endless speeches. 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.880 He gets tons of free airtime, he says lots of 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.560 controversial things. But you know, when I made the film, 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.760 the sort of premise of it is that I went 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.720 back right after the election in twenty seventeen and I 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:06.960 asked a bunch of people who had either covered him 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:11.280 or who had made coverage decisions about them, what do 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.840 they feel they might have done differently. So I interviewed 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:17.920 Jeff Zucker from CNN. I interviewed Maggie Haberman from The Times. 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.720 I interviewed people from The Washington Post, from all across 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:26.080 the media, and you know, almost instantly they did say 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.600 that there were things they would have done differently. But 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.680 now we're watching this election and I think there are 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:38.120 some things they're doing differently, but not enough. And the 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.240 one that I find most frustrating, to be honest, is 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:45.960 there's this thing that happens in media, especially on cable media, 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.040 where a lot of Americans still get their primary news, 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:54.199 which is that the news media feels like to be balanced, 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:58.160 quote end quote balanced, they have to give equal negative 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.520 airtime to both candidates. And because Trump is such a 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.800 chaotic candidate, because he does so many crazy things in 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.640 a row, nothing really sticks to him because no one 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.360 can figure out what is it is he's doing. But 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.520 then one narrative ends up sticking to his opponents in 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.160 a way that kind of crushes them. So in the 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.480 twenty sixteen campaign, that was Hillary's emails. They couldn't really 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.000 think of a lot of other things to talk about 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.679 with Hillary. There wasn't news breaking about her every day. 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.560 She wasn't calling for a Muslim band one day and 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:30.760 then you know, talking about, you know, the menstrual cycle 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:32.600 of a Fox News host the next day. Right, she 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.880 just wasn't doing these sort of really chaotic things, and 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.720 so whenever they had to talk about her, they really 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.959 only had this one issue to talk about. How much 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.320 were the email is going to matter, how much was 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:45.880 it going to stick to her? What was the FBI 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:47.720 going to do about it? And what we're seeing in 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.319 this cycle is that same pattern, but with Biden's age, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:53.640 so they don't know what else to talk about with Biden. 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:57.800 He's not particularly chaotic, He's not doing crazy things. He's 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.880 kind of a boring candidate if you're press person who 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.120 wants like an exciting story to cover. So they're just 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.680 hammering him on age when Trump is frankly showing a 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.480 lot of the same you know issues that Biden is 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.080 on age, right. I mean he's also forgetful and mixes 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.719 things up, but they don't talk about that with him 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.000 because every day he comes out and gives some sort 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.120 of press conference, and every day there's a new court filing, 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:25.000 and I think people can't keep track of it the 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:27.240 way we do, right. People aren't as like plugged in, 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:29.720 and so all they hear is that Biden is old 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.560 and the Trump is just being chaotic like he usually is, 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.960 and that is not a fair comparison of what's happening 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.520 in the in the sort of political sphere. 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.280 I want to talk about the recent decision that came 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:51.840 down from the Supreme Court and a nine to zero decision, 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:55.840 which was the Colorado case that kind of started the 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:00.559 domino effect of states removing Donald Trump from a ballot 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:05.840 given the Constitution, the Fourteenth Amendment, and the participation in 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:10.000 an insurrection. And the Supreme Court comes down and says, no, 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:14.120 no states rights. And this is me at living States 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.280 rights really only exist if you are a red state 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.600 governor taking away people's rights right and flooding your state 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.040 with guns. Outside of that, we get to decide what 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.880 a state can and cannot do. And that is the 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.760 decision that they made in Colorado that said no, Donald 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.840 Trump is going to be eligible and be on the ballot. 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.960 And Amy Coney Barrett, one of my least favorite justices, 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.360 had the audacity to talk about in the decision that 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:44.280 we need to bring America together, right, yes, and that 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.199 this decision, you know, we need to be thoughtful about 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.360 how we bring together America. Is that right? 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.040 Amy? 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:56.600 So here we are we're following that decision. Donald Trump 0:11:57.280 --> 0:12:02.560 got wall to wall coverage for his beach on interrupted, 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:07.720 Donald Trump, flanked by a bevy of American flags, talking 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:12.480 a whole bunch of hot trash, right, that presidents deserve 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.240 absolute immunity. They can't do their job otherwise. I don't know, 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.800 because I'm pretty sure the forty four that came before 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:23.679 him weren't abject criminals, right, yes, And so here we are, 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.240 and I'm sitting back and I had to turn my 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.000 TV off because I don't like to have that kind 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.880 of negativity inside my home. Right, Like my blood pressure 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:31.400 is I enough? 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.920 Your TV is gonna be awful lot this same right, Right. 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:40.120 So when I think about what the press has learned 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:45.040 in that moment, I see that they've learned absolutely fucking nothing. 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.800 Yeah, absolutely nothing. So it's a rough one. That one 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.200 is a real rough one, right, because this is a 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.480 perfect example of how Donald Trump knows how to manipulate 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.000 the media. He knows that they have to take his reaction. 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.959 He has found that they no longer take his political rally. 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:02.080 They've sort of got his number on that they know 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.200 he's just going to spat a bunch of lies. So 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.959 unlike twenty sixteen, where he could just every time he 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.480 did a political rally. He just got endless coverage on 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:12.000 cable TV. This time, he's not getting that. So what 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.960 he's figured out, though, is that if he does press 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:19.520 conferences related to the court cases, the news media feels 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:23.360 like they have to take those because they're newsworthy in quotes, right, 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.320 They feel like it's a product of the news rather 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.840 than a campaign rally. And you know, that's debatable because 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:35.520 what Trump does with these speeches is not illuminate the trial, 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.200 you know, decision in any way, or the court decision 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.360 in any way. He just uses it as a campaign 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.640 platform and talks about all sorts of things, Like on 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.160 that day with the Supreme Court ruling, he was talking 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.960 about migrant crime, which, as we know, you and I 0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.360 both know, there is no spike in migrant crime. In fact, 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.520 migroant crime percentage wise, is less than the overall population. 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.679 But he gets to put in these talking points that 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.440 he knows actually resonate, right. I mean, I think the 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.320 thing about Trump is is that he's you know, not 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:09.559 all there in some ways, right. I mean, I think 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.080 you know, he calls his wife by a different name. 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:16.960 He confuses Nancy Pelosi and Nikki Haley, he's often referring 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.400 to the president as Obama. But what he's always been 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.680 really good at as a candidate is messaging and finding 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.560 like a thing to say that sort of breaks through 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.440 the noise, and he just says it over and over 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.480 again until people on his side and also people in 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.640 the middle right, who frankly are the ones who decide elections, 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.880 start to believe the thing. And so migrant crime, this 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.280 idea that there's a migrant crime wave. He's done a 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:45.840 pretty good job of making people believe that that's a thing, right, 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.920 And so when the news media just airs these speeches 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.480 and doesn't interrupt them, or doesn't you know, wait until 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.800 he's given them, and just air a couple of soundbites, 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:58.960 they are playing into his games again. And I really 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.640 don't understand it. I mean, and I think one of 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.280 the worst examples of this was when CNN put him 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.160 live on a town hall. You know, It's just was crazy. 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.640 I was like, did you guys literally just not pay 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.680 attention to the twenty sixteen election? Were you sleeping for that? 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.720 And you know, the president who of CNN at that 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.200 time is no longer there, so I mean, maybe he 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.000 wasn't up for the job in more ways than one. 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.760 But I was really shocked by that decision. And you know, 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:29.640 no amount of fact checking changes the visuals that you describe, right, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.520 what you were just describing standing in front of the 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.640 American flag like poly si one oh one, that the 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.400 image you present, I mean, that's a real Reagan you 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:41.120 know lesson, right is it almost doesn't matter what you're saying. 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:45.360 Sometimes if the visuals are presidential, if they are validating, 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.720 if they give him a sense of authority, that is 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.040 huge for him. And I think that is really you know, 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.520 something that if you're a political reporter you're not thinking 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.360 about and you're not thinking about actively, you're not doing 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:00.920 your job anymore. Like we know who this candidate is. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.360 It's time to really think about that in a clear way. 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.000 And so my thing too is that I don't say 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.440 don't air Donald Trump. What I'm saying is exactly what 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.480 you mentioned, which is you know that he's going to 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:19.000 give a presser, right, Yeah, So your job should be 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:23.400 to record that presser, go through it with fact check, 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:28.000 and then pair it down into the clips that people 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:33.360 are going to take in with analysis. That's responsible journalism. 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.440 And only to the things that are relevant to the case, 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.200 like why are they airing things about all these other 0:16:38.280 --> 0:16:40.720 campaign issues he wants to talk about. He'll make a 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.040 statement about the Supreme Court case he did at the top, 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.840 and then everything else he said was just him enjoying 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:48.800 his time in front of the. 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.320 Camera exactly, you know, exactly. 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:55.040 That, And I don't think it educates anyone or informs anyone. 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:57.440 So if you think of your role as a journalist 0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.320 not just to entertain, which I think you know a 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.960 bit of a danger in the twenty sixteen coverage, then 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:06.880 you know you have a responsibility to do it differently. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.160 And I think what's hard for me is that I do, 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.239 you know, have a lot of friends and colleagues at 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:14.359 CNN who I respect, who I think do think about 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:18.680 these issues deeply, But I think you know, either their 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.679 voices aren't always heard or also, in the chaos of 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:25.760 breaking news, lots of decisions get made that aren't thoughtful, 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.159 and that really concerns me because, as we know from 0:17:29.240 --> 0:17:32.280 twenty sixteen, it has a real impact on the country 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:37.200 when the information people are getting is not high quality, 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:39.280 and that's just not high quality content. 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.119 What blows my mind about the decisions that are made 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.080 whether it is breaking news or just segments in general 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:51.600 for regular shows. Is that Donald Trump has outright gone 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.960 after media. Right. There were pipe bombs that were sent 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:59.000 to CNN, right, like we forget these things. He has 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:04.520 said that president again that he is going to bankrupt 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:10.119 or shut down MSNBC. Right. Free press has no place 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.679 in a dictatorship. And so you would think that for 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:18.800 your own self preservation media networks, that you would then 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:24.000 cover this person as the real threat to our democracy 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:29.240 and to your job, right, because it in dictatorships, in 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:32.920 communist countries and authoritarian regimes. You know what channel they got, 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:37.679 They got one, They got one state run television, right. 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:39.480 Yes, And if it was up to Trump, we would 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:41.640 just have Fox, and he would own Fox. I mean 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.840 that's the truth, you know, And I think you know 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:49.800 what's interesting about that is that, you know, I don't 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:55.440 think that the press sees this in that clear a way, right. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.159 They don't see it as like, oh, this is a 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:02.639 threat to us, because on some love, most people just 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.280 believe in the norms, right, They believe in the institutions. 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.000 They may not think they do, they may think they're skeptical, 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.240 but the reality is we've lived in America a long time, 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.919 and so you know, Americans tend to sort of just 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.080 believe that things will somehow work out, that Donald Trump 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:21.720 won't be able to prevail against these institutions. But you know, 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:23.760 I come from Iran, so I don't have that kind 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:25.639 of certainty, you know what I mean, Like, I was 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.440 born in a country where things do fall apart, and 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:34.639 so I know that countries do go through really like 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.840 negative transformations, like it is possible for Donald Trump and 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.720 as we've seen even the results of the twenty sixteen election, 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:46.600 to have a really negative impact on democracy. But it's 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.400 really hard, I think for people to wrap their head 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:54.159 around that. Even well intentioned, good reporters sometimes struggle with 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:58.879 that dichotomy because they are just used to covering things 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.280 in a very traditional way and they don't know how 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:05.119 to make this adjustment without feeling or being accused in 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.840 a bad faith accusation of being biased. So it's this 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.919 crazy thing where the idea of balance and lack of 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.720 bias objectivity as we're sort of taught in journalism schools, 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.800 is weaponized against journalists. So they don't know how to 0:20:20.840 --> 0:20:23.080 cover Trump because they're like, oh, I'm not objective if 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.159 I call him a liar. I'm not objective if I 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:29.320 say that he's having this mental decline, but that's just 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:31.359 the reality of what they're seeing. Your job as a 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:34.080 journalist is to tell people what you're seeing. You know, 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.920 that's not biased, to call things what they are. And 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.000 I don't know if you remember in twenty sixteen, it 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.240 took them months and months and months to even call 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.200 lies lies. There was so much debate about it, So 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:45.600 we call a lie lie. The New York Times like 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.199 came out with all this sort of like justification for 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.960 why they didn't call them lies. And you know, now, 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:54.639 at least, I guess we should be grateful we have 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.240 that they at least say when he's lying. But even 0:20:57.240 --> 0:21:00.560 that they do pretty sparingly just wild kids. He lies, 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.159 Like I'd say, he probably tells more lies than truths 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:05.119 in any given speech. 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.040 I want to go back to you mentioning your roots 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:17.119 in Iran, and so that makes you understand the fact 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:24.520 that countries lose their way, right like government doesn't remain staple. 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.680 There is instability that happens. And I want to ask 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:31.640 you one like, I'm not sure when you left when 0:21:31.720 --> 0:21:35.320 you left Iran, but you know, what we learned here 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:38.959 in America through the protests that had been going on 0:21:39.200 --> 0:21:42.800 for over you know, well over a year, was that, 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:47.560 you know, prior to the mid nineteen seventies, Iran had 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:53.480 been a place that was flourishing right until religious zealous 0:21:54.040 --> 0:21:59.919 took over and completely destroyed freedoms there. Can you just 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.200 give us like your thoughts on that and the lack 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:08.119 of ability for Americans I think to have a madination 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.720 beyond what it is that they know. Do you know 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.960 what I'm saying to imagine that something could end? 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.000 Yeah, I mean, listen, I want to be clear that 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.720 Iran is a complicated country with a lot of geopolitical 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.280 forces that are obviously very different from America. I don't 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:24.639 want to make it sound like I don't know the 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:28.159 difference between those two places. I left Iran when I 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.160 was very young. I left at the revolution. My father, 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:33.560 you know, was in a senior position and was put 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.959 under house arrest. We had to sort of escape from 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:40.880 Iran essentially. And I think you know, one thing that's 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:45.200 worth noting is that Iran, even before this religious regime 0:22:45.680 --> 0:22:48.320 wasn't a democracy, right, There was still a king, there 0:22:48.400 --> 0:22:50.600 was a shaw, So you know, there were lots of 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:54.480 issues with that government as well, but certainly far more freedoms. 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:57.239 I mean the Iran my parents described to me as 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:00.560 a child, like women did not have to wear a 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.600 head job, which is a covering over their head. You know, 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:06.480 women could drive, women could you know, I mean women, 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:08.640 which I know these sound like basic rights, but those 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:11.320 are rights that in a lot of Middle Eastern countries 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.880 women do not have. Right in Saudi Arabia, women can't drive, 0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:19.080 et cetera. And so I think what I learned from 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:21.439 sort of hearing my parents' stories about this life that 0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:24.080 they had that was like really fun and there were 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:28.400 like parties and this very like Western life, and then 0:23:28.480 --> 0:23:31.720 all of a sudden they see the sort of stirrings 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.240 of this revolution, and they don't take it seriously, right, 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:37.600 They sort of do the same thing that I'm describing, 0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:40.159 which is they just sort of assume that this is 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:43.480 noise and that the institutions will somehow survive them, whether 0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:45.679 or not those institutions were perfect to sort of beside 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:49.280 the point. They just believed in the sort of momentum 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:51.560 of life that if you're going a certain way, that 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.840 things will continue that way. And they were genuinely shocked 0:23:54.960 --> 0:24:00.199 when the revolution resulted in this religious regime that completely 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:03.320