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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to will Kate f Daily

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Speaker 1: with Meet your Girl Danielle Moody, recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, God,

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Speaker 1: you know I have to say this that I know

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Speaker 1: that it's Tuesday, but over the weekend, the news that

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Speaker 1: came out about Donald Trump his hate rally and referring

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Speaker 1: to immigrants and migrants as animals and saying that there

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Speaker 1: is going to be a bloodbath if he's not elected,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, folks, how much more information do you

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Speaker 1: fucking need? That this man is a fuck the game

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Speaker 1: like dictator, Nazi, you know, authoritarian in the making. He

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Speaker 1: was caught on a hot mic saying, you know, Kim

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Speaker 1: Jong UN's people like when he talks, like they listen,

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Speaker 1: And that's what I want. He's a fucking dictator, a

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Speaker 1: pariah on the world stage. But all you want is

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Speaker 1: absolute fucking power and people kissing your ring and your feet,

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Speaker 1: and you being thought of as the most intelligent, the

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Speaker 1: best looking, the thinnest, the most athletic, right genius that

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Speaker 1: ever walked the face of this earth. Except guess what,

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Speaker 1: that would be a fucking lie, because for the rest

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Speaker 1: of us that live on Earth two, that's not where

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Speaker 1: we are. I'm calling it Earth two now, folks, because

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Speaker 1: you know, I know that they'll say Earth one is

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Speaker 1: the original Earth. Earth two. No, because I want to

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Speaker 1: get the fuck I want them to have Earth one.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying. I want to be

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Speaker 1: somewhere else because it is just getting to be so

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Speaker 1: fucking much to take in, and the media is once

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Speaker 1: again failing, failing, failing. I see headlines like, oh, Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: you know, uh speaks out of turn or goes off script. No,

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Speaker 1: you fucking idiots, He's not going off script. Being an

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Speaker 1: authoritarian is the script, that's the play, and to not

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Speaker 1: call it out, to not say what it is, is

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Speaker 1: fucking malpractice. I just I'm beside myself. I'm beside myself.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't. Continuing on

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Speaker 1: the theme of Donald Trump and just, you know, not

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Speaker 1: making any sense, is that, you know, basically he can't

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Speaker 1: come up with the money that uh Tis James was

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Speaker 1: awarded in the New York fraud case. He needs in

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Speaker 1: order to be able to appeal the decision of four

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Speaker 1: hundred and I believe fifty four million dollars. In order

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Speaker 1: to appeal that you have to post the bond for

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Speaker 1: that exact amount of money. Well, if you're keeping track

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Speaker 1: at home, he already posted a bond of ninety one

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Speaker 1: point whatever million dollars for the Egene Carroll case to

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Speaker 1: appeal that, so that she wouldn't get that money, right,

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Speaker 1: But he can't come up with the four hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty four million, and you sure as fuck can't go

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Speaker 1: to the same people. And so his attorneys are saying, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, they'd they've faced some considerable hurdles. Yeah, those

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Speaker 1: hurdles are a whole bunch of no's. You know why,

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Speaker 1: because he's not fucking good for it. So how is

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Speaker 1: it that Donald Trump's attorneys at once walts into a

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Speaker 1: courtroom and say that he is a multi billionaire, but

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Speaker 1: you can't come up with half a billion? So one

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Speaker 1: of these things ain't right.

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Speaker 2: He's not a.

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Speaker 1: Multi billionaire because even if it was tied up in

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Speaker 1: other assets, you could essentially put up right something else

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Speaker 1: as saying, well, this is the value of X, so

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Speaker 1: I can put that up as a bod He don't

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Speaker 1: have it, folks. It is just the place that we

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Speaker 1: are in, right, like the place that we are in

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Speaker 1: that we continually find ourselves. For me is just I'm exhausted.

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Speaker 1: I'm exhausted most days. You know. It's like the weekends

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Speaker 1: come and go. They feel like they happen within a

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Speaker 1: blink of an eye. And I honestly, I would like

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Speaker 1: to go backwards right Like I would like to just

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Speaker 1: take a time machine. Which is why, you know, frankly,

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Speaker 1: I'm excited for my next guest coming up. Uh Susie Banikarim,

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Speaker 1: who is the Emmy Award winning journalist behind the podcast

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Speaker 1: in Retrospec where each week her alongside New York Times

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Speaker 1: editor Jessica Bennett, revisit a pop culture moment from the

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Speaker 1: eighties and nineties that shaped them to try and understand

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Speaker 1: what it taught us about the world and a woman's

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Speaker 1: place in it. And I thought to myself, like, how

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Speaker 1: fun is this? Right? Because who didn't love the eighties

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Speaker 1: and the nineties and so many moments that like, when

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Speaker 1: we look back at them, we're like, wow, this was

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Speaker 1: like a moment. How do we think about it now?

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Speaker 1: And through which lens are we actually looking at it with?

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Speaker 1: So Susie and I get into really good conversation about

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Speaker 1: her pod, but also about politics in general and the

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Speaker 1: ways in which we look at things in the responsibility

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Speaker 1: of journalism. So I'm really excited for you to hear

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Speaker 1: that conversation, which is coming up next. Folks. I am

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Speaker 1: very excited to welcome to OOKF Daily for the very

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Speaker 1: first time, Susie Banakurem, who is the host of the

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Speaker 1: podcast In Retrospect, who is an Emmy winning journalist and filmmaker,

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Speaker 1: and also directed the twenty twenty documentary Enemies of the People,

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Speaker 1: Trump and the Political Press. So, Sissy, first, I would

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Speaker 1: like to talk about your documentary because I think that

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Speaker 1: where we are right now, where my anger is and remains,

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Speaker 1: is in what seems like the mainstream media's inability to

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Speaker 1: handle a character, a figure like Donald Trump. And so

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Speaker 1: talk to us about your twenty twenty documentary film and

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Speaker 1: what you learned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that Donald Trump is a

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Speaker 2: fairly unique figure in American history, and the press just

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Speaker 2: really has never figured out how to cover him as

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Speaker 2: a political candidate. In the beginning, they treated him like

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Speaker 2: he was an oddity, like a joke. He was fun,

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Speaker 2: he was good for ratings, so they gave him a

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Speaker 2: lot of attention, thinking he wasn't a serious candidate, and

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Speaker 2: once he became a serious candidate, they didn't really do

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Speaker 2: a good job of adjusting, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: It's like they don't adapt in that era in the

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen election very quickly to the fact that now

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Speaker 2: he's the front runner and they do have to treat

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Speaker 2: him like a serious candidate, and they have to ask

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Speaker 2: serious questions about the policies he's presenting, the way he's

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Speaker 2: presenting them, And so he gets kind of this past

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Speaker 2: in the twenty sixteen election, right, he gets to do

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Speaker 2: a lot of things that no normal candidate would be

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Speaker 2: able to do, which is like just give endless speeches.

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Speaker 2: He gets tons of free airtime, he says lots of

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Speaker 2: controversial things. But you know, when I made the film,

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Speaker 2: the sort of premise of it is that I went

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Speaker 2: back right after the election in twenty seventeen and I

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Speaker 2: asked a bunch of people who had either covered him

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Speaker 2: or who had made coverage decisions about them, what do

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Speaker 2: they feel they might have done differently. So I interviewed

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Speaker 2: Jeff Zucker from CNN. I interviewed Maggie Haberman from The Times.

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Speaker 2: I interviewed people from The Washington Post, from all across

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Speaker 2: the media, and you know, almost instantly they did say

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Speaker 2: that there were things they would have done differently. But

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Speaker 2: now we're watching this election and I think there are

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Speaker 2: some things they're doing differently, but not enough. And the

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Speaker 2: one that I find most frustrating, to be honest, is

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Speaker 2: there's this thing that happens in media, especially on cable media,

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Speaker 2: where a lot of Americans still get their primary news,

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Speaker 2: which is that the news media feels like to be balanced,

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Speaker 2: quote end quote balanced, they have to give equal negative

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Speaker 2: airtime to both candidates. And because Trump is such a

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Speaker 2: chaotic candidate, because he does so many crazy things in

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Speaker 2: a row, nothing really sticks to him because no one

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Speaker 2: can figure out what is it is he's doing. But

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Speaker 2: then one narrative ends up sticking to his opponents in

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Speaker 2: a way that kind of crushes them. So in the

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen campaign, that was Hillary's emails. They couldn't really

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Speaker 2: think of a lot of other things to talk about

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Speaker 2: with Hillary. There wasn't news breaking about her every day.

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Speaker 2: She wasn't calling for a Muslim band one day and

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Speaker 2: then you know, talking about, you know, the menstrual cycle

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Speaker 2: of a Fox News host the next day. Right, she

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Speaker 2: just wasn't doing these sort of really chaotic things, and

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Speaker 2: so whenever they had to talk about her, they really

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Speaker 2: only had this one issue to talk about. How much

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Speaker 2: were the email is going to matter, how much was

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Speaker 2: it going to stick to her? What was the FBI

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Speaker 2: going to do about it? And what we're seeing in

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Speaker 2: this cycle is that same pattern, but with Biden's age,

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Speaker 2: so they don't know what else to talk about with Biden.

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Speaker 2: He's not particularly chaotic, He's not doing crazy things. He's

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Speaker 2: kind of a boring candidate if you're press person who

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Speaker 2: wants like an exciting story to cover. So they're just

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Speaker 2: hammering him on age when Trump is frankly showing a

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Speaker 2: lot of the same you know issues that Biden is

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Speaker 2: on age, right. I mean he's also forgetful and mixes

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Speaker 2: things up, but they don't talk about that with him

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Speaker 2: because every day he comes out and gives some sort

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Speaker 2: of press conference, and every day there's a new court filing,

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Speaker 2: and I think people can't keep track of it the

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Speaker 2: way we do, right. People aren't as like plugged in,

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Speaker 2: and so all they hear is that Biden is old

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Speaker 2: and the Trump is just being chaotic like he usually is,

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Speaker 2: and that is not a fair comparison of what's happening

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Speaker 2: in the in the sort of political sphere.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about the recent decision that came

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Speaker 1: down from the Supreme Court and a nine to zero decision,

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Speaker 1: which was the Colorado case that kind of started the

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Speaker 1: domino effect of states removing Donald Trump from a ballot

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Speaker 1: given the Constitution, the Fourteenth Amendment, and the participation in

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Speaker 1: an insurrection. And the Supreme Court comes down and says, no,

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Speaker 1: no states rights. And this is me at living States

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Speaker 1: rights really only exist if you are a red state

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Speaker 1: governor taking away people's rights right and flooding your state

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Speaker 1: with guns. Outside of that, we get to decide what

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Speaker 1: a state can and cannot do. And that is the

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Speaker 1: decision that they made in Colorado that said no, Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is going to be eligible and be on the ballot.

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Speaker 1: And Amy Coney Barrett, one of my least favorite justices,

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Speaker 1: had the audacity to talk about in the decision that

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Speaker 1: we need to bring America together, right, yes, and that

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Speaker 1: this decision, you know, we need to be thoughtful about

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Speaker 1: how we bring together America. Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Amy?

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Speaker 1: So here we are we're following that decision. Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: got wall to wall coverage for his beach on interrupted,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, flanked by a bevy of American flags, talking

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of hot trash, right, that presidents deserve

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Speaker 1: absolute immunity. They can't do their job otherwise. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: because I'm pretty sure the forty four that came before

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Speaker 1: him weren't abject criminals, right, yes, And so here we are,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sitting back and I had to turn my

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Speaker 1: TV off because I don't like to have that kind

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Speaker 1: of negativity inside my home. Right, Like my blood pressure

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Speaker 1: is I enough?

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Speaker 2: Your TV is gonna be awful lot this same right, Right.

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Speaker 1: So when I think about what the press has learned

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Speaker 1: in that moment, I see that they've learned absolutely fucking nothing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely nothing. So it's a rough one. That one

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Speaker 2: is a real rough one, right, because this is a

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Speaker 2: perfect example of how Donald Trump knows how to manipulate

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Speaker 2: the media. He knows that they have to take his reaction.

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Speaker 2: He has found that they no longer take his political rally.

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Speaker 2: They've sort of got his number on that they know

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Speaker 2: he's just going to spat a bunch of lies. So

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Speaker 2: unlike twenty sixteen, where he could just every time he

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Speaker 2: did a political rally. He just got endless coverage on

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Speaker 2: cable TV. This time, he's not getting that. So what

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Speaker 2: he's figured out, though, is that if he does press

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Speaker 2: conferences related to the court cases, the news media feels

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Speaker 2: like they have to take those because they're newsworthy in quotes, right,

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Speaker 2: They feel like it's a product of the news rather

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Speaker 2: than a campaign rally. And you know, that's debatable because

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Speaker 2: what Trump does with these speeches is not illuminate the trial,

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Speaker 2: you know, decision in any way, or the court decision

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Speaker 2: in any way. He just uses it as a campaign

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Speaker 2: platform and talks about all sorts of things, Like on

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Speaker 2: that day with the Supreme Court ruling, he was talking

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Speaker 2: about migrant crime, which, as we know, you and I

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Speaker 2: both know, there is no spike in migrant crime. In fact,

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Speaker 2: migroant crime percentage wise, is less than the overall population.

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Speaker 2: But he gets to put in these talking points that

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Speaker 2: he knows actually resonate, right. I mean, I think the

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Speaker 2: thing about Trump is is that he's you know, not

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Speaker 2: all there in some ways, right. I mean, I think

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Speaker 2: you know, he calls his wife by a different name.

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Speaker 2: He confuses Nancy Pelosi and Nikki Haley, he's often referring

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Speaker 2: to the president as Obama. But what he's always been

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Speaker 2: really good at as a candidate is messaging and finding

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Speaker 2: like a thing to say that sort of breaks through

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Speaker 2: the noise, and he just says it over and over

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Speaker 2: again until people on his side and also people in

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Speaker 2: the middle right, who frankly are the ones who decide elections,

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Speaker 2: start to believe the thing. And so migrant crime, this

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Speaker 2: idea that there's a migrant crime wave. He's done a

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Speaker 2: pretty good job of making people believe that that's a thing, right,

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Speaker 2: And so when the news media just airs these speeches

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Speaker 2: and doesn't interrupt them, or doesn't you know, wait until

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Speaker 2: he's given them, and just air a couple of soundbites,

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Speaker 2: they are playing into his games again. And I really

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Speaker 2: don't understand it. I mean, and I think one of

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Speaker 2: the worst examples of this was when CNN put him

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Speaker 2: live on a town hall. You know, It's just was crazy.

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Speaker 2: I was like, did you guys literally just not pay

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Speaker 2: attention to the twenty sixteen election? Were you sleeping for that?

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Speaker 2: And you know, the president who of CNN at that

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Speaker 2: time is no longer there, so I mean, maybe he

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Speaker 2: wasn't up for the job in more ways than one.

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Speaker 2: But I was really shocked by that decision. And you know,

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Speaker 2: no amount of fact checking changes the visuals that you describe, right,

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Speaker 2: what you were just describing standing in front of the

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Speaker 2: American flag like poly si one oh one, that the

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Speaker 2: image you present, I mean, that's a real Reagan you

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Speaker 2: know lesson, right is it almost doesn't matter what you're saying.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes if the visuals are presidential, if they are validating,

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Speaker 2: if they give him a sense of authority, that is

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Speaker 2: huge for him. And I think that is really you know,

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Speaker 2: something that if you're a political reporter you're not thinking

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Speaker 2: about and you're not thinking about actively, you're not doing

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Speaker 2: your job anymore. Like we know who this candidate is.

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Speaker 2: It's time to really think about that in a clear way.

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Speaker 1: And so my thing too is that I don't say

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Speaker 1: don't air Donald Trump. What I'm saying is exactly what

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, which is you know that he's going to

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Speaker 1: give a presser, right, Yeah, So your job should be

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Speaker 1: to record that presser, go through it with fact check,

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Speaker 1: and then pair it down into the clips that people

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Speaker 1: are going to take in with analysis. That's responsible journalism.

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Speaker 2: And only to the things that are relevant to the case,

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Speaker 2: like why are they airing things about all these other

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Speaker 2: campaign issues he wants to talk about. He'll make a

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Speaker 2: statement about the Supreme Court case he did at the top,

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Speaker 2: and then everything else he said was just him enjoying

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Speaker 2: his time in front of the.

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Speaker 1: Camera exactly, you know, exactly.

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Speaker 2: That, And I don't think it educates anyone or informs anyone.

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Speaker 2: So if you think of your role as a journalist

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Speaker 2: not just to entertain, which I think you know a

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Speaker 2: bit of a danger in the twenty sixteen coverage, then

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Speaker 2: you know you have a responsibility to do it differently.

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Speaker 2: And I think what's hard for me is that I do,

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Speaker 2: you know, have a lot of friends and colleagues at

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Speaker 2: CNN who I respect, who I think do think about

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Speaker 2: these issues deeply, But I think you know, either their

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Speaker 2: voices aren't always heard or also, in the chaos of

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Speaker 2: breaking news, lots of decisions get made that aren't thoughtful,

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Speaker 2: and that really concerns me because, as we know from

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, it has a real impact on the country

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Speaker 2: when the information people are getting is not high quality,

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Speaker 2: and that's just not high quality content.

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Speaker 1: What blows my mind about the decisions that are made

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Speaker 1: whether it is breaking news or just segments in general

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Speaker 1: for regular shows. Is that Donald Trump has outright gone

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Speaker 1: after media. Right. There were pipe bombs that were sent

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Speaker 1: to CNN, right, like we forget these things. He has

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Speaker 1: said that president again that he is going to bankrupt

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Speaker 1: or shut down MSNBC. Right. Free press has no place

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Speaker 1: in a dictatorship. And so you would think that for

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Speaker 1: your own self preservation media networks, that you would then

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Speaker 1: cover this person as the real threat to our democracy

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Speaker 1: and to your job, right, because it in dictatorships, in

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Speaker 1: communist countries and authoritarian regimes. You know what channel they got,

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Speaker 1: They got one, They got one state run television, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And if it was up to Trump, we would

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Speaker 2: just have Fox, and he would own Fox. I mean

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Speaker 2: that's the truth, you know, And I think you know

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Speaker 2: what's interesting about that is that, you know, I don't

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Speaker 2: think that the press sees this in that clear a way, right.

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Speaker 2: They don't see it as like, oh, this is a

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Speaker 2: threat to us, because on some love, most people just

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Speaker 2: believe in the norms, right, They believe in the institutions.

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Speaker 2: They may not think they do, they may think they're skeptical,

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Speaker 2: but the reality is we've lived in America a long time,

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Speaker 2: and so you know, Americans tend to sort of just

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Speaker 2: believe that things will somehow work out, that Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: won't be able to prevail against these institutions. But you know,

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Speaker 2: I come from Iran, so I don't have that kind

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Speaker 2: of certainty, you know what I mean, Like, I was

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Speaker 2: born in a country where things do fall apart, and

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Speaker 2: so I know that countries do go through really like

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Speaker 2: negative transformations, like it is possible for Donald Trump and

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Speaker 2: as we've seen even the results of the twenty sixteen election,

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Speaker 2: to have a really negative impact on democracy. But it's

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Speaker 2: really hard, I think for people to wrap their head

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Speaker 2: around that. Even well intentioned, good reporters sometimes struggle with

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Speaker 2: that dichotomy because they are just used to covering things

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Speaker 2: in a very traditional way and they don't know how

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Speaker 2: to make this adjustment without feeling or being accused in

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Speaker 2: a bad faith accusation of being biased. So it's this

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Speaker 2: crazy thing where the idea of balance and lack of

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Speaker 2: bias objectivity as we're sort of taught in journalism schools,

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Speaker 2: is weaponized against journalists. So they don't know how to

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Speaker 2: cover Trump because they're like, oh, I'm not objective if

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Speaker 2: I call him a liar. I'm not objective if I

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Speaker 2: say that he's having this mental decline, but that's just

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Speaker 2: the reality of what they're seeing. Your job as a

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Speaker 2: journalist is to tell people what you're seeing. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's not biased, to call things what they are. And

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Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember in twenty sixteen, it

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Speaker 2: took them months and months and months to even call

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Speaker 2: lies lies. There was so much debate about it, So

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Speaker 2: we call a lie lie. The New York Times like

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Speaker 2: came out with all this sort of like justification for

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Speaker 2: why they didn't call them lies. And you know, now,

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Speaker 2: at least, I guess we should be grateful we have

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Speaker 2: that they at least say when he's lying. But even

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Speaker 2: that they do pretty sparingly just wild kids. He lies,

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Speaker 2: Like I'd say, he probably tells more lies than truths

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Speaker 2: in any given speech.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to you mentioning your roots

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Speaker 1: in Iran, and so that makes you understand the fact

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Speaker 1: that countries lose their way, right like government doesn't remain staple.

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Speaker 1: There is instability that happens. And I want to ask

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Speaker 1: you one like, I'm not sure when you left when

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Speaker 1: you left Iran, but you know, what we learned here

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Speaker 1: in America through the protests that had been going on

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Speaker 1: for over you know, well over a year, was that,

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Speaker 1: you know, prior to the mid nineteen seventies, Iran had

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Speaker 1: been a place that was flourishing right until religious zealous

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Speaker 1: took over and completely destroyed freedoms there. Can you just

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Speaker 1: give us like your thoughts on that and the lack

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Speaker 1: of ability for Americans I think to have a madination

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Speaker 1: beyond what it is that they know. Do you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying to imagine that something could end?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, I want to be clear that

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Speaker 2: Iran is a complicated country with a lot of geopolitical

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Speaker 2: forces that are obviously very different from America. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to make it sound like I don't know the

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Speaker 2: difference between those two places. I left Iran when I

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Speaker 2: was very young. I left at the revolution. My father,

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Speaker 2: you know, was in a senior position and was put

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Speaker 2: under house arrest. We had to sort of escape from

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Speaker 2: Iran essentially. And I think you know, one thing that's

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Speaker 2: worth noting is that Iran, even before this religious regime

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Speaker 2: wasn't a democracy, right, There was still a king, there

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Speaker 2: was a shaw, So you know, there were lots of

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Speaker 2: issues with that government as well, but certainly far more freedoms.

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Speaker 2: I mean the Iran my parents described to me as

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Speaker 2: a child, like women did not have to wear a

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Speaker 2: head job, which is a covering over their head. You know,

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Speaker 2: women could drive, women could you know, I mean women,

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Speaker 2: which I know these sound like basic rights, but those

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Speaker 2: are rights that in a lot of Middle Eastern countries

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Speaker 2: women do not have. Right in Saudi Arabia, women can't drive,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. And so I think what I learned from

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Speaker 2: sort of hearing my parents' stories about this life that

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Speaker 2: they had that was like really fun and there were

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Speaker 2: like parties and this very like Western life, and then

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden they see the sort of stirrings

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Speaker 2: of this revolution, and they don't take it seriously, right,

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Speaker 2: They sort of do the same thing that I'm describing,

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Speaker 2: which is they just sort of assume that this is

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Speaker 2: noise and that the institutions will somehow survive them, whether

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Speaker 2: or not those institutions were perfect to sort of beside

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Speaker 2: the point. They just believed in the sort of momentum

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Speaker 2: of life that if you're going a certain way, that

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Speaker 2: things will continue that way. And they were genuinely shocked

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Speaker 2: when the revolution resulted in this religious regime that completely

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Speaker 2: tore the country apart. And listen, I don't know that

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Speaker 2: I think America can become what Iran is. I don't

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Speaker 2: think it can, right. I mean, that's a very specific thing.

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Speaker 2: But you know, look, people said in the twenty sixteen

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Speaker 2: election that there was no difference. There were people like,

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Speaker 2: let's say, Susan Sarandon, who I know gets more heat

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Speaker 2: than probably she deserves because she's not, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: the person who decided the election. But there were people

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Speaker 2: who said Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton were the same,

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Speaker 2: that voting for one versus the other wouldn't make a difference,

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Speaker 2: that it was all the same, sort of like corporate politics. Well,

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Speaker 2: we see that that's just not true, right. We see

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Speaker 2: it in the reproductive rights issues that have come up

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Speaker 2: since then. We see it in the way the Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court is stacked to sort of push conservative issues. We

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Speaker 2: see it in terms of, you know, the income disparity

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Speaker 2: that grew under the Trump administration. So it does make

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Speaker 2: a difference who you vote for. And I think that

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Speaker 2: is really complicated for Americans because we believe in the democracy.

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Speaker 2: The story of America so much or not necessarily we

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Speaker 2: you and me, but people in general tend to really

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Speaker 2: have faith in that people, especially who those systems have

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Speaker 2: mostly worked for, So they tend to not have the

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Speaker 2: imagination for what could come. And I think that's why

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Speaker 2: so many of them were actually surprised when Roe was overturned,

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Speaker 2: when people who'd been paying attention had been saying for

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Speaker 2: years that that was going to be the result.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's just you know, I think that

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Speaker 1: what I encourage, at least on this show is for

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Speaker 1: there to be a level of consciousness and understanding about

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Speaker 1: the possibilities, right, and to stop living in a place

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00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: of assumptions that things will just hold. The systems. Oh,

433
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: the systems held even though Donald Trump was president the

434
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 1: first time. And I'm like, did the systems really?

435
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? Did they hold?

436
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: Right? But who thinks that there was Like they held

437
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 1: so much as a sieve holds liquid, right, Like, you know,

438
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: so the buildings didn't crumble, like if that's what we mean.

439
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: So I do think that it's important to have clarity,

440
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: but to understand and to imagine the possibilities of you know,

441
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: the directions that things can take. Susie with you know,

442
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: last question for you, I just want to give you

443
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 1: the opportunity to tell folks about your podcast, your iHeart

444
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: podcast in Retrospect and what you discuss, what they can

445
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: expect and why they should tune in.

446
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to talk about that, and I would

447
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 2: love for people to listen to it. I co host

448
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: the podcast with my friend Jessica Bennett. It is very

449
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: different from what we've talked about today. It's not politics.

450
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: It's pop culture, which is another thing that I really love,

451
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,719
Speaker 2: but it is media criticism. So there is a thread

452
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 2: which is, you know, we look back at stories from

453
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties, that's why it's called in Retrospect

454
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 2: that we loved, you know, pop culture moments, and we

455
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 2: re examine them to sort of ask ourselves, how did

456
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: the media cover them at the time, What were the

457
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: ways which we viewed them at that young, younger age,

458
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: and how do we see them differently. So one of

459
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: my favorite episodes is actually about Robin Gibbons and the

460
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,959
Speaker 2: sort of way in which she was really vilified by

461
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 2: the press at that time. You know, there's this moment,

462
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 2: this very famous moment where her and Mike Tyson given

463
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: interviewed to ABC News, and she admits he's abusing her,

464
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: and the result of that is not that he is

465
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: sort of condemned, but that she is condemned, and that

466
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 2: she is literally called on the cover of People magazine

467
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 2: the most hated woman in America. So those are the

468
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: kinds of things we're looking at. Some of them are

469
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: more fun and some of them are a little more serious.

470
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: We're doing one coming up on Miss America and Vanessa

471
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: Williams and how she was the first Miss Black America

472
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: and you know, she was dethroned essentially at the end

473
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 2: of her reign. We did one recently on devil Ware's Prada,

474
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: which is a movie I really love and in the

475
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 2: two thousands, and about how ambition is part of that

476
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 2: story and what it means about our ambission and how

477
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: we saw it when we were younger, and how we

478
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: think about our emission now. So it's a way to

479
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 2: talk about sort of a broad set of issues through

480
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: a pop culture.

481
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: Lens love it so much, and the next time that

482
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: you come back, I hope that we dive into one

483
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: of those many topics because I love every single one

484
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: of the episodes. As you just laid out, and I

485
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: often think about films. I rewatch movies all the time,

486
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: and so I'm looking at it through my present lens

487
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: versus when they came out. As always like a really

488
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: interesting way to see your own personal evolution, but also

489
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: how society has evolved as well.

490
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: Totally, that's very much sort of the premise of the show.

491
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for making the time for

492
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: Woke AF and I hope that you come back and

493
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: join us again soon.

494
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: Susie, thank you so much for having me.

495
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on Woke

496
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: a f as always, power to the people and to

497
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: all the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as

498
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: fun