1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Up next The Truth with Lisa both part of the game, 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: which the notion that the police are out in the 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: streets killing Black Americans disproportionately is a lie, a mirage, 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: and optical illusion, not supported by any of the facts. 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: And yet this narrative dominates our culture, driven by selective 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: media coverage, politicians who want to divide for votes, and 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: groups like the Black Lives Matter movement who stand to 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: make a profit, but they don't care about black lives unless, 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: of course, they're killed by white cops. Otherwise, or woke 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: cultural elites couldn't give a damn. This is the Truth 11 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: with Lisa Booth. Ye, welcome back to the Truth with 12 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: Lisa Booth. The police are under siege in America today. Democrats, 13 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: the media, and army of radical activists are out in 14 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: the streets calling to defund the police, demonizing the people 15 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: who serve to protect us, attacking officers just for doing 16 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: their jobs. And what's the result of all that? Violent 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: crime in America is skyrocketing in our cities, and no 18 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: one is suffering more as a result than minorities. My 19 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: guest today is the one who wrote the book on this. 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: She wrote The New York Times bestseller The War on Cops, 21 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: which is essential about the conversation we're having today. She's 22 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: also a lawyer by training and a fellow at the 23 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: Manhattan Institute. I could go on and on about Heather's resume, 24 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: but I'm just going to sum it up with this, 25 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: and two thousand eighteen, then Attorney General Jeff Sessions called 26 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: Heather the greatest thinker in criminal justice in America today. 27 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: So this is an issue that has been on my 28 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: mind a lot. It's something when you look at the data, 29 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: when you look at the facts, it doesn't match the 30 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: public narrative. Yet that doesn't seem to matter to the 31 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: media and to the left to continue to push this 32 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: lie about the police and police shootings. I'm so thankful 33 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 1: to have Heather McDonald on this podcast for this week's 34 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: episode to get into all of this. Heather, thanks so 35 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: much for taking the time. Lisa, thank you so much 36 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: for having me on pleasure talking to you. We live 37 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: in this post truth world where facts don't seem to matter. 38 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: I mean, even looking at the Washington Post database, so 39 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: one thousand people shot and killed by the police either 40 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: had a knife or gun. Only five point three percent 41 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: of those shot and killed were actually unarmed, and then 42 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: when you look at those unarmed, it's twenty four white people, 43 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: almost eighteen were black. Almost. But why do people keep 44 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: pushing this narrative that simply isn't supported by the facts. 45 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: It's astonishing. I mean every day I sort of rubbed 46 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: my eyes and think I'm dreaming. It's amazing to me 47 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: that we continue talking about the police when this country 48 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: is living through a crime wave of unprecedented proportions where 49 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: every single day you have dozens of blacks getting gunned 50 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: down and drive by shootings to fatally to absolutely no 51 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: acknowledgement by the mainstream media. That's more than all white 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: and Hispanic homicide victims combined. Uh. And yet we're talking 53 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: about phantom police racism and it's a it's it's an 54 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 1: utter puzzle. Uh. The count returns its eyes away from 55 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: the just grotesque and barbaric behavior that is leading to 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: this loss of black life in inner city areas. We 57 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: don't want to acknowledge it. Uh. I fear that elite 58 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: whites feel that the behavior gap, the crime gap, is insoluble, 59 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: and so they'd rather talk about something other than that. 60 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: But it is a complete breakdown in public policy, and 61 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: as you say, it's a truth gap. The perception that 62 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: we're living through a epidemic of racially biased fatal police 63 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: shootings of blacks is an optical illusion. It is created 64 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: by selective media coverage. The public thinks that most of 65 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: the people shot by the police are black. In fact, 66 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: about of people fatally shot by the police each year 67 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: black over fifty or white. Uh. There's been white victims 68 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: in There was a man in Dallas, Tony Tempa, who 69 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: was killed by the police in the situation that was 70 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: eerily foreshadowing the George Floyd death. He was pinned under 71 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: officers for thirteen minutes, unable to breathe. They were joking 72 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: the whole time. Nobody knows Timpa's name because it does 73 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 1: not fit the narrative. The only thing that the allegedly 74 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: anti racist UH, left wing press, the only time they 75 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 1: care about black lives is when they're taken by a cop. Uh. 76 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: And the only police shootings that the media cares about 77 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: is against black See the one fatal police shooting in 78 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: the January six riot. Whatever happened to Ashley Babbitt, You know, 79 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: it's down the memory hole because she's white. That was 80 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: a bad shooting. Nobody talks about it. It is it 81 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: is just a completely surreal and dysfunctional situation. Well it 82 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: it puts police officers in a an impossible situation when 83 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: we saw that with the Macaya Bryant shooting, which is 84 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,159 Speaker 1: sad that it's her name that is remembered when she 85 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: was the aggressor of not her potential victim. You have 86 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: a white cop, I believe it was Columbus, Ohio. You've 87 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: a white cop saved a young black woman's life from 88 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: getting stabbed by Macaya Bryant. Yet he is still being 89 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: painted as racist simply because of the color of her skin, 90 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: even though he was trying to save a black life. Yes, 91 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: it's just it's remarkable. Cops are it is the most disheartening, 92 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: spirit killing, soul crushing profession at this point because they 93 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: are the object of completely irrational hatred. They can never 94 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: clear their name of being racist. Now, the cops that 95 00:05:55,560 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: I speak to just keep close to their arts, the notion, 96 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: the belief that the good people in the community support them, 97 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: and by and large that's true. There is a well 98 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: spring of unacknowledged support for proactive policing, especially among elderly 99 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: blacks who are terrified by these feral youth that are 100 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: spraying passers by with guns, that are killing one year old, 101 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: six year old, nine year olds in their beds, again 102 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: to no acknowledgement by the press. So the police officers 103 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: try to hold onto that belief, but the loudest voices 104 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: in the culture are telling them that they are the 105 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: source of oppression. As we know that there is a 106 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: huge exodus from from the police ranks. People are taking 107 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: early retirements, They're telling their family members, their friends don't 108 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: even think about being a police officer. When cops get 109 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: out of their cars these days, they frequently find themselves 110 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: surrounded by hostile during outs. We are playing with fire, Lisa, 111 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: because Americans are naive. They they buy in large enjoy 112 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: a stable society, uh the rule of law. We're naive 113 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: about the the hatred and violence that links lurks beneath 114 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: the service. We saw that with the riots, uh and 115 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: and again we turned our eyes away. This summer is 116 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 1: going to be even worse the violence. This year outpaces 117 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: saw the largest increase in homicides on a percentage basis 118 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: in this nation's history, and it is far worse this year. 119 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: Uh So so by demonizing the cops, we are demonizing 120 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: the very possibility of a civil society, which is respect 121 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: for criminal justice and the foundation of law and order. 122 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: When did this war on cops begin Well, I certainly 123 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: became aware of it in the nineties with the driving 124 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 1: well black conceit, which was another optical illusion. Lisa, if 125 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: there's one thing that your listeners should take away from 126 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: our conversation, it's this the problem of the benchmark. If 127 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: they can understand the benchmark issue, they will be able 128 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: to take on every Black Lives Matter activists. Here's here's 129 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: what the left does to generate its phony idea of racism, 130 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: and this bears on the driving while black issue. In 131 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: car stops, they compare police data police activity data like 132 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: police stops or arrests, to population ratios, and if the 133 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: police rate of activity with any given racial group is 134 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: larger than that group's percentage of the population, they declare racism. So, 135 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: for example, in New York City, blacks are about twenty 136 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: three percent of the city's population, but of all the 137 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: pedestrian stops that the police make that is the stop, 138 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: question and frisk. In legal terminology, it's they're known as 139 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: terry stops. These are the discretionary stops that officers make 140 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: to ask, as a suspect somebody engaging in suspicious behavior, 141 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: what are you doing? You know, why are you here? 142 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: Maybe frisking the the suspect of those stops. In New 143 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: York City, blacks makeup about fifty three percent of all 144 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: stop subjects, So that's twice as much as the black population. 145 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: So the a c l U, the Black Lives Matter activists, 146 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: the Patrice Colors, and Deroy mckesson's look at that and say, ah, 147 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: the police are racially profiling. But population is not the 148 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: relevant benchmark. It's what the left uses. It is not 149 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: the right benchmark. Here's what you've got to compare police 150 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: activity to crime. Policing today is data driven. Police go 151 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: where people are most being victimized, and that's in minority neighborhoods. 152 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: Here's the relevant benchmark for assessing pedestrian stops. Who's doing 153 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: the shootings? And in New York according to the victims 154 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: of and witnesses to those shootings, Blacks commit about seventy 155 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: five percent of all shootings, though they're tent of the population. 156 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: Whites commit about two to three percent of all shootings. 157 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: Though they're thirty four percent of the population. So when 158 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: you compare police stops to criminal activity, which is what 159 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: drives those stops, they're not racially profiling. So to get 160 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: back to your question of when did this begin. In 161 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: the nineties, we saw the racial profiling idea, the driving 162 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: well black idea, again based on a phony benchmark, uh 163 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: the A C L. You would say, well, in this city, 164 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: blacks are x percent of the population, but x percent 165 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 1: of car stops are of blacks. Therefore there's racial profiling. 166 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: What was rarely asked was who's breaking the traffic laws? 167 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: And it turns out that blacks break traffic laws also disproportionately. 168 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: This was there was a brief moment when it was 169 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: allowable as an academic to study driving patterns, and one 170 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: of the studies showed that black speed at twice the 171 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: rate of whites on the New Jersey Turnpike in the 172 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: Garden State Parkway in New Jersey. Another study in North 173 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: Carolina found similar things. The Transportation Department has an entire 174 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: program devoted to what it calls the Nexus of crashes 175 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:02,599 Speaker 1: and crime. It finds that d driving behavior, fatal car accidents, 176 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: pedestrian accidents are worse in high crime communities because the 177 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: same people engaged in the violence are also driving like maniacs. 178 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:18,319 Speaker 1: So this driving well black conceit is another optical illusion 179 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: that is based on our unwillingness to look at the 180 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: reality of behavior. So we got the nineties, you know, 181 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,560 Speaker 1: that was the big thing, driving well black. Then we 182 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: had two thousand one, we had nine eleven, and for 183 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: a brief moment, the cops were the good guys again, 184 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: and they were being greeted, you know, and and uh, 185 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: people were saying thank you, thank you. And this was 186 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: a bittersweet moment for them because they overnight they've gone 187 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: from being the dogs to the heroes. And they knew 188 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,560 Speaker 1: it wouldn't last. Nadda didn't. And and meanwhile, you know, 189 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: the academic narrative got more and more left wing about 190 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: systemic bias, and very quickly, uh me, once again, we're 191 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: blaming the cops as a messenger in order not to 192 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: talk about black crime. Let's take a quick commercial break 193 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: back on the other side. One of the big moments 194 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: that stands out to me is Ferguson And just as 195 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: a case study about how easily false and narratives are 196 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: told and pushed. I mean, you look at the shooting 197 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: that took place in with Michael Brown and Officer Darren Wilson. 198 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: Even before having all the facts we had, the President 199 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: of the United States goes out and makes a statement saying, 200 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: we lost a young man, Michael Brown, and a heartbreaking 201 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: and tragic circumstances. He was eight years eighteen years old. 202 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: His family will never hold Michael in their arms again. 203 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: He and he makes the statement as rioters are already 204 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,959 Speaker 1: out in the streets of Ferguson before having all the facts. 205 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:54,240 Speaker 1: He also mentioned Ferguson on the world stage at the 206 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: UN General Assembly. You know how much responsibility, uh does 207 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: in did former President Obama in pushing some of these 208 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 1: false narratives about the police. Well, he definitely was part 209 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 1: of the problem, uh, And and was not driven by 210 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: the facts, as you say, Lisa, I don't know. I 211 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: suppose if it had been uh, you know, President Trump 212 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: during those years, who was a police supporter, we might 213 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: not have been here today. That having been said, Uh, 214 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: it was sort of overdetermined. You know, you had the 215 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: rising left, You had the academic world pumping out every year, 216 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: graduates who have been imbued in the idea of phony racism. 217 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: Uh so it may have sort of happened anyway, but 218 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: but certainly Biden had, I mean, rather, Obama created some 219 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: tropes that have been enduring the idea that black parents 220 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 1: are right to fear that every time their child steps outdoors, uh, 221 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: he'll be killed by a cop, which he said at 222 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: the few guneral for the five Dallas police officers who 223 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: were assassinated in cold blood in and Joe Biden has 224 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: picked up on that trope and uses it constantly himself. So, yes, 225 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: that that was bad, but I think I think we 226 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: would have been sort of here anyway, just given the 227 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: left wing direction of our of our culture. Well and 228 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: and and then even after the grand jury decided not 229 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 1: to indict, you still had CNN personalities go on air 230 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: with their hands up. You had St. Louis Rams players 231 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: run onto the field gesturing hands up. Lawmakers going to 232 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: the house floor pushing the lie, hands up, don't shoot. 233 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: So you know, again, it's like these facts, the facts 234 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: don't matter when there's a narrative to be pushed over. 235 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: Four dozen black children killed last year in their beds, 236 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: on their front porches, at birthday parties, in their parents cars, 237 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: in parks, barbecues. Is if there were four dozen white 238 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: children killed in these mindless drive by shootings, there being 239 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: national revolution. And yet, as I say, we're talking about 240 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: the police, none of those kids were shot by the police. 241 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: Three children shot in the head in Minneapolis in May 242 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: of this year alone, Two of them have died, one 243 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: of the oldest of them a ten year old boy. 244 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: There was a six year old girl who died almost immediately, 245 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: a nine year old finally died after weeks of fighting. 246 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: Ten year old boy is going to be a vegetable 247 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: lot for life. Uh. You've had similar things in Chicago, 248 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: more children killed this year than than ever before, and 249 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: nobody wants to talk about it. The as I say, Lisa, 250 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: the country turns its eyes away. They're embarrassed. We are 251 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: supposed to believe that we're a white supremacist country. That 252 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: is ridiculous. We make excuses, we find we find scapegoats 253 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: for this crime. That's not the behavior of a white 254 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: supremacist country. This is a country that is ready to 255 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: be post racial. It is not racist. You have the 256 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: press for since the nineties has refused to give the 257 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:14,480 Speaker 1: race of suspects because it shows that violent street crime 258 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: today is the face of violent street crime in the 259 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: US is black and brown, period. That's it. Drive by shootings. 260 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 1: If you hear about a shooting at a house party, 261 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: you you virtually know the race of the people involved. 262 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: And that's because of family breakdown. It's because of a 263 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: failure of socialization. There are solutions to that problem, but 264 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: we don't want to and instead we are making cops 265 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: the scapegoat for crimes. What are those solutions in your 266 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: eyes that we should focus on. Revalerizing fathers, throwing off 267 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,679 Speaker 1: the yoke of feminism that tells us that strong women 268 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: can do it all and that men are toxically masculine 269 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 1: and a volunteering sort of optional appendage to raising a child. 270 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: No children, on average, they need both parent. Both biological 271 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: parents bring complementary predilections skills to raising children. If nothing else, 272 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 1: you've got twice the kin resources, You've got twice the 273 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: economic resources there are. Of course, I always have to 274 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: put in this disclaimer. Of course, there are heroic single 275 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: mothers that are doing a great job in raising children, 276 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: but the odds are against them. And President Obama, when 277 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: he was first running for president in two thousand and eight, 278 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: gave a very good speech at the University of Chicago 279 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: on Father's Day, actually giving the data of what we 280 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: know about the likelihood of kids raised in single mother 281 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: families becoming juvenile, delinquents, dropping out of school, ending up 282 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: in prison, having mental health problems. He acknowed, knowledged it, 283 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: and then he immediately segued to well, the solution is 284 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: more government services. No, that's not the solution. We have 285 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: spent trillions in this country trying to close the racial 286 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: academic achievement gap, the behavior gap. At this point, what 287 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: is needed is a value change and a cultural change. 288 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: It's the breakdown of the family is the most catastrophic 289 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: problem facing the United States today. And it's not just 290 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: a question of sort of the the deficit that any 291 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: individual child faces in not having both of his parents there, 292 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: but it's also the loss of an entire culture of marriage. 293 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: When when young boys know that in order to have 294 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: access to sexual favors over the long term, they need 295 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: to develop bourgeois habits of self uh self control, deferred gratification, 296 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: impulse control, future orientation that provides an incentive for them 297 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: to rein in the sort of more uh barbaric aspects 298 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: of male nous. I mean they are males are impulsive 299 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:16,120 Speaker 1: and aggressive. Marriage civilizes men and and and turns them 300 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: into productive members of society. When that breaks down, when 301 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: it's the norm in a community that everybody's just gonna 302 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: serially impregnate each other and and boys have no responsibility 303 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: for the children that they have created. Uh, that is 304 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: a very unstable situation that is not at all conducive 305 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: two lawful productive behavior. Now, I completely agree on the 306 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: need for families and how you know, just focusing on 307 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: the family is a solution to a lot of this 308 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 1: and also just sets children up for for higher rate 309 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: of success. M But you know, even at the Jacob 310 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: Blaze Blake case, I think it's sort of telling in 311 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: what some of these people and these activists actually want, 312 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: which I think is to be able to act with 313 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: impunity and to not have any repercussions or consequences. Because 314 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: you have an individual who had a felony warrant out 315 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,719 Speaker 1: for sexual assault because he had showed up at his 316 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: ex girlfriend's house and the mother of his children, sexually 317 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: assaulted her, stole her debit card and her car, shows 318 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: up at the house again, tries to steal his keys, 319 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: cops know this. Cops know that he had a felony 320 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: warrant out for his rest. He resists the police, he 321 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: puts one at a headlock, resist being taste, has a 322 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: knife in his hand, with children in the backseat, and 323 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: then a shot. After all of this took place, Yet 324 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: you still have candidates, or you still had then Joe 325 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: Biden put out a statement claiming racism. You have the 326 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: Governor of Wisconsin, Toni Evers, claiming racism, saying that Jacob 327 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 1: Blake is not the first black man to have been shot, injured, 328 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: or worselessly killed at the hands of law enforcement. You 329 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: have Kamala Harris meeting with his family. How do we 330 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: end up in a society where Jacob Blake is the 331 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: victim and not the woman in that situation. Lisa, I 332 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: just applaud you. Your absolutely right, Your your outrage and 333 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: your your mystification are completely justified, and you are pointing 334 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: out what is just a tragic facet of our world today, 335 00:22:17,359 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: which is that our current civil rights heroes petically thugs 336 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: because the way, the only the way to become a 337 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: civil rights hero today is to be killed by a cop, 338 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: and overwhelmingly you get killed by a cop by resisting arrest, 339 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,959 Speaker 1: and and likely you've been engaged in illegal behavior. And 340 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: so you have this whitewashing of these thugs. I mean, 341 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: George Floyd was a thug. There's a video that I 342 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: saw recently, a porn video with him in it. It's 343 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: utterly disgusting. And and we've you're right, there's Floyd with 344 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,119 Speaker 1: his abuse of women, you know, with pistol whip ing. 345 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: There's been you know, cast out on whether the woman 346 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: was pregnant or not. But in any case, this was 347 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: a bunch of males praying on a female, stealing her money. 348 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: It happens again and again, and yet we're glorifying these people. 349 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:20,879 Speaker 1: It is completely bizarre, and it I just keep bringing 350 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: it back fact that we we cannot address, honestly the 351 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: breakdown of civilizing norms in the black community, and and 352 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: so instead are turning into role models. I mean, you know, 353 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: you had you had Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton eulogizing. 354 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: I think it was Blake saying he's the King of 355 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: no This was Dante right saying he's the king of 356 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: or the Prince of Minneapolis. Because I guess the singer 357 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: prince came from a similar area. Uh and, and Dante 358 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: righting In was was a criminal, he had he had 359 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: a outstanding felony warrant on him. And yet these are 360 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: the people that we are turning into into heroes and martyrs. 361 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,640 Speaker 1: And and the language around George Floyd has been astounding. 362 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: You know, somebody said during the media, uh one year anniversary, 363 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: you know he's going to be remembered for generations to come. 364 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, one can one can say that 365 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: he should not have been held down that long. But 366 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: there there's got to be other people within the black 367 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: community that are worthy of reverence, that are are working hard, 368 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: they're building institutions uh and and being a resisting arrest 369 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: and and ending up the at the receiving end of 370 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: force by the police be the main way that our 371 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: culture honors black achievement. Well, and I know understand why 372 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: we can't just have these conversations as we're having in 373 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: in hodesty and point out the fact that you know, 374 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: George Floyd was no hero. He should not have resisted arrest. Simultaneously, 375 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: the police should not have acted in the manner in 376 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: which they did. It's like, it's like, why all these 377 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,879 Speaker 1: things can be true at once, and we can have 378 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 1: an honest conversation about the fact that, you know, we 379 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: shouldn't be idolizing, you know, this man with this terrible 380 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: behavior on the back or in his past, well simultaneously 381 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: saying that, you know, cops did not take the appropriate 382 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: actions in this case. Yeah, I don't know, Uh, I mean, 383 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: I think people are Most people are in complete ignorance 384 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: about what the crime rates are in the inner city 385 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: because the press doesn't cover it. As I say, you know, 386 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: I read the Chicago Tribue. In the Chicago Tribune does 387 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: a very good, uh service, and it it pretty much 388 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: does cover the daily shootings. But it's one of the 389 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: few newspapers that do. And to read it every day 390 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: is utterly mind boggling. What's going It's just every single 391 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: day there are people being shot. It's just part of 392 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: routine life there and and the public has no clue. 393 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: They have no clue about what's going on. But it's 394 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: that rate a violent crime which brings police to those 395 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: communities and which increases in officer's use of force. Again, 396 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: of all victims of police shootings are black, that's twice 397 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: as much as their population. Now, remember the benchmark problem. 398 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: That's why the Black Lives Matter movement says, well, there's 399 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: twelve percent of the population in America is black black's 400 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: makeup or so of fatal victim victims of fatal police shootings. Therefore, 401 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: measured against that population benchmark, we have police racism. Again. 402 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: Wrong benchmark. You've gotta men measured against I'm blacks commit 403 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: about of murders and robberies in the large seventy five 404 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: largest counties of the U. S which is where most 405 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: of the population resides. So when you measure police activity 406 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: against crime, it is not disproportionate. But the public doesn't 407 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: know that because the press does not cover those shootings. 408 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: Let there be one white kid shot fatally and it's 409 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: a national story. You know that things are national stories. 410 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: But there's a Newton, Connecticut, you know, every few months 411 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: cumulatively in the black community. Nobody knows that. All they 412 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 1: know are those handful of questionable police shootings. And some 413 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: of them, as you say, Lisa, are not even questionable, 414 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: like the the female knife attack. Uh. And yet you know, 415 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: I've had some the left back down on that one, 416 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: and I'm with view. I don't think they have I 417 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 1: don't think that even when it became it was clear 418 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: from the start that that was a She was the aggressor, 419 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 1: she was about to commit murder, the cop was. I've 420 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: had cops marvel at his marksmanship skills of being able to, 421 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: you know, defuse that threat without killing the other people around. 422 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: And yet that I think with you, that that incident 423 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: has been put in the category of racist police violence 424 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: along with everything else. It's just as I say, I 425 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: I my mouth hangs open every single day at how 426 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: large the gap is between, as you say, the truth 427 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: and the narrative. I also think it's a sad reflection 428 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: of our society that we've become so desensitized to so 429 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: many people dying in so many inner cities across America. 430 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: I mean, every life should matter. You're right, You're right. 431 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 1: I mean, but I've said that someone times like black 432 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,959 Speaker 1: lives matter. I don't get it. Here's the numbers. You know, 433 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: there's probably gonna be ten thousand blacks who were killed 434 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: last year. At least, that will be more than all 435 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: all white and Hispanic victims combined, much much more. Even 436 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: though blacks or twelve percent of the population. Those unarmed 437 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: black victims that you talked about from the Washington Post database. 438 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: You know, Washing Post defines unarmed extremely liberally to include 439 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: people that are trying to grab the officers gun, which 440 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: is putting the officer unnoticed that that person intends to 441 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: kill you, or escaping in a stolen car with a 442 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: loaded handgun in the seat next to you. You know, 443 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: people that are beating officers with their own equipment. Those 444 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: counts unarmed. Those you know, maybe a dozen and a 445 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: half every year. Uh, unarmed victims black victims make up 446 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: about point one or point two are sent of all 447 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: black homicide victims. Uh. And yet this phony narrative, and 448 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 1: it is based on people as just assume, well that's 449 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: kind of the way they act, and uh, it's and 450 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: you know what I find also strange and frustrating, Lisa, 451 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: is I think it's kind of hard to get the 452 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: American public generally to pay attention to this crime increase 453 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: that's going on. The numbers are beyond belief. Every single 454 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: city is seeing nearly triple digit increases in shootings and homicides. 455 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: And part of the reason why I think it's not 456 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: getting the attention that it should is as as murky 457 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: as the public is about the reality of inner city crime. 458 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: They're making part of them. That sort of says, well, 459 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: they kind of are dimly aware that, well, that's blacks 460 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: that are killing each other. It's it's overwhelmingly black on 461 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: black violence. Why should I here? And at some point 462 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: that's a legitimate question. You know, if black politicians don't care, 463 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: why should anybody else care? And and so this crime 464 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: increase that we're living through now is only going to 465 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: start getting attention when white kids start getting killed. If 466 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: white kids start getting gunned down in these mindless drive 467 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 1: by shootings, then we will see changes in attitude towards 468 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: the police. What we're seeing happening is the carjackings are 469 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: spreading really terrifying instances, people being dragged, you know, beaten 470 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: killed by being dragged. With the carjackings, uh and and Washington, 471 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: d C, Chicago, Philadelphia, it's it's spiraling out of control, 472 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 1: that's going into suburban neighborhoods. You know, you have Chicago 473 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: Alderman holding official times when you can fill your car 474 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: at a gas station because there'll be a police presence there, 475 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: because otherwise you don't know if somebody's going to come 476 00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: up and stick a gun to your head and drive 477 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: off with your car. So that crime is spreading. But 478 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: but for now, uh, people don't really seem to care, 479 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: and and they may just be following the the the 480 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: direction of the black activists who don't care either about 481 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: black lives and talk about too. I mean, we've seen 482 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: an exodus of police officers from places like Minneapolis, people 483 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: either you know, walking off the job or you know 484 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: various things. Can you talk a little bit about that 485 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: exodus we're saying across the country. Yeah, it's it's massive. 486 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: The recruiting is over. You cannot recruit now. Uh, nobody's 487 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: coming into this job. So the defunding movement is kind 488 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: of besides the point because even if departments wanted to 489 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: bulk up, there's nobody applying. Understandably because as I mentioned earlier, 490 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: police officers are telling their family the feeder sources, don't 491 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 1: do it, it's not worth it. And people are taking 492 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,719 Speaker 1: early retirement, that going out on disability. And so you 493 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: have departments now as we face the summer, uh, that 494 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: are strapped. They don't have the officers. So it's gonna 495 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: be a very bad summer. And what I you know, 496 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: we've been talking a lot about paradox is today Lisa 497 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: and and phony narratives and bait and switches on the 498 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: part of the the media. One of my favorites is 499 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: that to the extent of the media has acknowledged the 500 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: crime increase of and into Their favorite explanation was, well, 501 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: it's the pandemic. It's the lockdowns, uh, and the lockdowns 502 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: are just making people so economically straightened that they're forced 503 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: to go out and kill each other, you know, um, 504 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 1: which is completely phony. These kids that are killing each other, 505 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 1: it's not as if they were hard workers at McDonald's 506 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 1: and now they've been thrown out of a job, and 507 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: so because they've been thrown out of a job and 508 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: they're struggling for subsistence, they're going out and shooting each 509 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: other on corners. No, these are kids that are simply 510 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: not socialized. The police have backed off. They know they're 511 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: not going to get stopped with the gun, and so 512 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: it's the wild West out there. Why did the Why 513 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 1: is the press embraced the pandemic narrative instead of the 514 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: real one, which is deep policing. It's because the press 515 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: refuses to acknowledge that police make a difference and that 516 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,160 Speaker 1: law enforcement the threat of the threat of being arrested. 517 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: The threat of being imprisoned actually does change behavior. And 518 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: when you when you when you pull back on policing, 519 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: you release the worst in human beings. So we've been 520 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: hearing for the last year that, oh, the pandemic is 521 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: leading to this crime increase. We knew that was fake 522 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: from beginning because the only place where crime increased during 523 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: the lockdowns was in the United States. In other industrialized countries, 524 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: crime went down, and here it only started going up 525 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: after the George Floyd riots, and only with regards to 526 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: drive by shootings and homicides. So every other country provides 527 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: a counter uh refutation for that narrative. But now what 528 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: the press is saying is that, well, yeah, maybe crime 529 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: is going to get bad this summer because the lockdowns 530 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: are over. So the lockdowns create crime, and then when 531 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: you let the lockdowns, they create crime um both ways, 532 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: and and it is going to be very bad. With 533 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: the lack of recruiting, the the demoralization, cops not getting 534 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: out of their cars. They've gone completely passive, which is 535 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: their prerogative. You know, the only thing that cops are 536 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: obligated to do is to respond to nine one one calls. 537 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: They don't have to make those discretionary stops. They don't 538 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: have to get out of their car at two am 539 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: and question somebody out on a known drug corner hitching 540 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,359 Speaker 1: up his waistband as if he has a gun. They 541 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: can drive on by and wait for that guy to 542 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 1: actually shoot somebody and then respond when the radio call 543 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: comes from nine one one that somebody's been shot. And 544 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: that's what they're doing because they're saying, why should I 545 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: risk a a cell phone video going I rolled that 546 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: shows me using force against a resisting suspect. I'm not 547 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: going to do do as little as possible. And and 548 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,359 Speaker 1: they've gotten the political message that they should because they're 549 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: told that it's racist to engage in proactive policing and 550 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 1: minority communities, well, they're responding that message appropriately. So this 551 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: is going to be very bad. And and I don't 552 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,880 Speaker 1: think that the crime is going to stay within the 553 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: inner city. People are leaving UH cities. There's white flight 554 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: going on, the black middle class that can leave or 555 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: leaving UH and and unless we turn this around, it's 556 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 1: going to be very bad for the country. When we're 557 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 1: saying that come to a head in places like Atlanta 558 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: with the Buckhead community, you know, even wanting to separate 559 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,279 Speaker 1: themselves from the City of Atlanta and wanting their own 560 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 1: police force. And you know, a movement going on there 561 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,280 Speaker 1: as well right now. But has it has it gotten 562 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: so bad to the point that even the left is 563 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: waking up? Because what I find interesting is if you 564 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: look at the New York City mayoral ray us on 565 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: the left, you have some of the top contenders openly admitting, 566 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, the the uh crime problem that the City 567 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: of New York is having. And I believe it was 568 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: Andrew Yang even calling for, you know, expanding the NYPD 569 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: if my memory serves me correct, at one of the 570 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 1: more recent debates. So has it gotten so bad that 571 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: even the left have to admit the problem that we're 572 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 1: facing as a society. Uh? Somewhat not really. Yeah, you 573 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: have Eric Adams, who's a former police officer. I'm not 574 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: a big fan of him, is sort of the front runner. Uh. 575 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 1: He was a real racial rabble rouser as a police officer. 576 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,439 Speaker 1: He gave false testimony against police Commissioner Ray Kelly, who 577 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: was Michael Bloomberg's police commissioner. Uh. And it's got a 578 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 1: very bad history of racial demagoguery. Nevertheless, he's the closest 579 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: thing the city has to a law and order candidate 580 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,919 Speaker 1: in New York right now, and a lot of conservative 581 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: institutions like The New York Post have you know, very 582 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: vigorously endorsed him. And Andrew Yang, as you say, Lisa 583 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 1: also has spoken about the need for stronger policing, but 584 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 1: the rest of the candidates not very much. Um. And 585 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 1: I don't really see it happening in other cities. I mean, 586 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: you have had reverse about faces with regards to defunding. 587 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,280 Speaker 1: You know, Minneapolis never did it, and and uh, the 588 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: the wretched Jacob Fry there is is trying to get 589 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 1: more money sort of kind of for marginal police activity. Um. 590 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: But I don't think the country is ready for a 591 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: true acknowledgement of how how dangerous this false narrative has been. 592 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: Because the left the real engine of of leftist ideology, 593 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,439 Speaker 1: which is the university's Uh, they are unbowed, and uh 594 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: they continue to brainwash their students, who then go out 595 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: into the world and populate the New York Times and 596 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, the Washington Post and CNN and 597 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: MSNBC and corporations uh that are now committed to the 598 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: idea that the only allowable explanation for ongoing socio economic 599 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,800 Speaker 1: disparities is white racism. You're not allowed to talk about 600 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: behavior or the academic skills gap. How much culpability does 601 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,800 Speaker 1: the Black Lives Matter movement having all of this huge Uh? 602 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: You know, as I said, this was happening before the 603 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,400 Speaker 1: official Black Lives Matter movement you had in the nineties. Uh. 604 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:36,399 Speaker 1: And you know, anti police kneed your reaction has been 605 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: an aspect of the left for a very long time. Uh. 606 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 1: But you're right that the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, 607 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: Missouri was the real uh explosion that that started this 608 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: thing going based on a falsehood, as you say, one 609 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,640 Speaker 1: that was a falsehood disproven by even the Obama Justice Department, 610 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,399 Speaker 1: that had no effect on the endurance of that hands up, 611 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: don't shoot myth. I mean literally, that was literally a lie, 612 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: and yet people are still are still chanting it. And 613 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: so obviously Black Lives Matter has been effective to that 614 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: extent of making this idea that we're living through an 615 00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: epidemic of racially biased police violence be just received wisdom 616 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,799 Speaker 1: that one may not challenge more with Heather McDonald after 617 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: this we talked about George Floyd a little bit um 618 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,760 Speaker 1: and you know you've previously said in an opinion piece 619 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 1: that you know, Minneapolis officers who arrested George Floyd must 620 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 1: be held accountable. He did end up being found guilty 621 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,000 Speaker 1: of second degree third degree. Uh, you know, he ended 622 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: up being found guilty. Do you think the charges he 623 00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: received were fair? Well, it's the charges are questionable. The 624 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: real problem is the process of the trial. As I 625 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 1: understand it, the third degree charge was was somewhat of 626 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: a bootstrap affair. It's traditionally kind of used for felony 627 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: murder with group participation. Um, that wouldn't have applied really 628 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,320 Speaker 1: to Derek Chauvin, but they got him on second degree anyway. 629 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 1: What I was most troubled by was the refusal to 630 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: change the venue, the city's awarding of the twenty seven 631 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,880 Speaker 1: million settlement to the Floyd family right as the trial started. 632 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,120 Speaker 1: The refusal to sequester them. Now that's a that's a 633 00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: tough call for a judge, you know, after the um 634 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,240 Speaker 1: Dante right case in in Brooklyn Heights outside of Minneapolis. 635 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: It's a tough call because sequestration is very tough on 636 00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: a jury. But there's no question that they were that. 637 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure that jury was being pounded with the idea 638 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:10,759 Speaker 1: that we're living through in in continuing riots, and then 639 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: the threat of riots was just huge. You know, there's 640 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:19,040 Speaker 1: a writer, Fred Siegel, who wrote a book that um 641 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: called The Future Once Happened Here, and he talks about 642 00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: the right ideology, and that's the idea that you know, 643 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,919 Speaker 1: black rage is kind of a legitimate reason to arson 644 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,680 Speaker 1: and loot and and and tear down cities. And the 645 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: threat of black rage is always there. And that jury 646 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,400 Speaker 1: having lived through a year of Minneapolis Star Tribune coverage 647 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: which just wanted a Pulitzer for its completely deceptive coverage 648 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 1: of policing in Minneapolis. Uh, it would be very hard 649 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 1: for that jury two not fear that if they acquitted 650 00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: on any of those counts, that the firestorm that would 651 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 1: have hit every single American city was not on their hands. 652 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,360 Speaker 1: I mean, that is the threat. Let's be honest. Any 653 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: time now a police officer is on trial for uh, 654 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 1: any kind of lethal interaction with a black man, we 655 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,480 Speaker 1: all know that if that officers acquitted, America burns to 656 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: the ground. So how you have a fair trona maybe 657 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: you know this was the right result, but we don't. 658 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,719 Speaker 1: We don't know because it happened in a very very 659 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: difficult situation, and every officer is terrified at this point 660 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 1: that if he's compelled to use lethal force, he has 661 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: no hope of a fair trial because he will be convicted, 662 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: and as I say, the threat of black violence will 663 00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: hang over that trial and over that jury. And just 664 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: for the sake of clarity, I just want to make 665 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,280 Speaker 1: sure I get this right for the audience. Derek Chauvin 666 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: was convicted of second degree murder, third degree murder, and 667 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: second degree manslaughter, just to make sure you know, I 668 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: have it clear for folks. And you also had President 669 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: Biden weighing and the mayor of Minneapolis weighing. And that's 670 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: where I was disturbed by all this, because I think 671 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: you can watch the video and you can say, Okay, 672 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,440 Speaker 1: you know, it looks like there's wrongdoing that took place. 673 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:35,240 Speaker 1: But also, we live in a society where officer Derek Chauvin, 674 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: even if he was wrong, deserves a fair trial and 675 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,799 Speaker 1: also deserves to be fairly charged as well. And I 676 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: think it sort of taints that perspective when you have 677 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: the President of the United States weighing, And when you 678 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,360 Speaker 1: have the mayor weighing, and we have all this public 679 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: pressure added to the jury, I find that a little 680 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: bit disturbing. No, you're absolutely rightly, so, absolutely. I mean, 681 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,680 Speaker 1: the most precious thing that any civilization has is the 682 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,400 Speaker 1: possibility of a neutral, impartial tribunal and fact finder. We 683 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 1: all yearn for the to be confident that if we 684 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,280 Speaker 1: come before a tribunal of justice, we will be able 685 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: to have our facts evaluated with impartiality. And when you 686 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: lose that, when you fear that you can't get a 687 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: fair here, and you can't get a fair trial, there 688 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: is nothing you can turn to. You are then at 689 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,240 Speaker 1: the mercy of tyranny. Uh. And as far as the charges, 690 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 1: you know, the issue always is is intent uh And 691 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: and with the second degree, as I understand it, the 692 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:49,279 Speaker 1: intent element gets to committing assault, not necessarily murder. UM. 693 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: But you know, did did Chauvin really intend to assault, 694 00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: uh assault Floyd in that way? Or was he acting 695 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: in misguided good faith? I don't know. UM. I have 696 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:13,280 Speaker 1: not focused on the legal minut shy of this, uh, 697 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: but it is true you know that by and large, 698 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: the difference between officer behavior and criminal behavior. His officers 699 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,920 Speaker 1: are not setting out to kill somebody, whereas criminals are. 700 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,600 Speaker 1: Uh So coming up with an intent element can be 701 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,720 Speaker 1: kind of difficult, But I just think it's much healthier 702 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: as a society to look at each of these cases 703 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: on an individual basis and really examine the facts. And 704 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,040 Speaker 1: unfortunately we see this distortion, this effort by the meeting 705 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,600 Speaker 1: and Left, as we've discussed throughout the show. Uh this 706 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 1: desire to prove a narrative instead of look at the facts. 707 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,000 Speaker 1: And you know, it's it's obviously all very disturbing. But 708 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,920 Speaker 1: you know, before I let you go, right now, Congress, 709 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: you know they're having conversations about police reform. I'm hesitant 710 00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,120 Speaker 1: about it because I just think a lot of these 711 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: conversations or be based off of a false narrative in 712 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,759 Speaker 1: the country that simply isn't true, that has been disproven 713 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,840 Speaker 1: throughout the entirety of this conversation. But what do you 714 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: make of Congress's efforts right now as they look at 715 00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:14,000 Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote police reform. Well, you're right, that 716 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: is exactly my objection to is that we're the whole 717 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,799 Speaker 1: exercise is premised on the idea that the police are 718 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,880 Speaker 1: the problem in this country. They're not the problem. Crime 719 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: is the problem. We have a crime problem. Our crime 720 00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: problem is unlike anything else in the West. Our rates 721 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: of gun violence are forty times higher in certain age 722 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 1: brackets than in Western countries, Japan, Germany. I mean, it's 723 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: just it's off the church. There's nothing like it in 724 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:52,040 Speaker 1: the civilized world today. Uh. And police are response to that. 725 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,920 Speaker 1: If you want, if you want less police in your community, 726 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,640 Speaker 1: here's what you gotta do. Guys, commit less crime. You 727 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: know that, that's why they're there. And and and unless 728 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 1: you want to just deal with it yourself, which is 729 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,279 Speaker 1: what Black Lives Matter claims they want to in my 730 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,239 Speaker 1: view as the police should say, fine, you know you 731 00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: want to take care of emotionally just a person calls 732 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,160 Speaker 1: or homeless calls or whatever, be my guest. You know, 733 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: we're out of here. I'm amazed that they sort of 734 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,640 Speaker 1: want to hold onto those responsibilities. But if you think 735 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 1: you can do this better, let's have a try, you know, 736 00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,680 Speaker 1: Al Sharpton, how about you try and deal with Central 737 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: and East Harlem. Let's let's show us how you do 738 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 1: it better than the police. So the the police reformed 739 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:43,799 Speaker 1: thing in Congress is based on a complete misrepresentation. It 740 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,719 Speaker 1: seems to be sort of UH losing steam. Everybody was 741 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: all united on the idea that white supremacy was the 742 00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:56,239 Speaker 1: defining feature of the United States after George Floyd uh 743 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 1: and and now there's people that are sort of quietly 744 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:04,359 Speaker 1: creeping away from that idea. UM So, as far as 745 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,840 Speaker 1: the details of it qualified immunity, it's a complicated issue, 746 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 1: but arguably it is a valid UH doctrine because it 747 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,879 Speaker 1: says that the police should not be held responsible for 748 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,479 Speaker 1: areas of the law that are murky or truly good 749 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 1: faith mistakes. UM. But I'm I'm more concerned as you 750 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,359 Speaker 1: sort of imply, Lisa, it's not so much the details 751 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,560 Speaker 1: of of the law, because frankly, policing is local, and 752 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: I think that most actions go on and and policies 753 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 1: go on a local basis. The real problem is just 754 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:48,280 Speaker 1: the narrative, UH in the name of which the reform 755 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: movement is going on. And that's that's the thing that 756 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,759 Speaker 1: is really impeding policing. It's not this or that ban 757 00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,280 Speaker 1: on choke holds or not. It's the it's the idea 758 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,440 Speaker 1: that the police are racist for going where crime is. 759 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: And I've been saying on TV it's one of the 760 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,480 Speaker 1: most deadly lies that have ever been told, and it's 761 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: having real world consequences on the very people that groups 762 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,879 Speaker 1: like the Black Lives Matter purport to care about. So 763 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,640 Speaker 1: obviously they don't. And it's disturbing and it's sad, and 764 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,240 Speaker 1: we should care about lives in America, and it's unfortunate 765 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,320 Speaker 1: we've become so desensitized to it. I think that's a disgrace. 766 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,440 Speaker 1: Heather McDonald, this has been absolutely fascinating. I I so 767 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,160 Speaker 1: appreciate the time you've taken on my podcast, and thank 768 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:29,680 Speaker 1: you so much for being with me. Thank you so 769 00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:31,960 Speaker 1: much for having me on. It's a great conversation, great questions. 770 00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:40,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank Heather McDonald again for an incredible 771 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,600 Speaker 1: interview in getting the bottom of an issue that I 772 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: think is one of the most deadliest lies that's being 773 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,400 Speaker 1: told in America today. And I want to thank you 774 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: all at home for listening. If you enjoyed today's show, 775 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,239 Speaker 1: please leave us review and rate us five stars and 776 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,360 Speaker 1: Apple podcast. It means so much to me when you 777 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: take the time to go and leave reviews or ratings, 778 00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 1: so please do that. I would greatly appreciate it. You 779 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,600 Speaker 1: can also find me on Twitter and Instagram and at 780 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,440 Speaker 1: least some rebooth let me know there too. Are you 781 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,480 Speaker 1: enjoying the show? What can we do different? And I 782 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,160 Speaker 1: just want to thank our team or producer John Cassio, 783 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,160 Speaker 1: writer Aaron Kleegman, researcher Margaret Smith, and our executive producers 784 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,360 Speaker 1: Debbie Myers and speaker New Gingridge. We're all part of 785 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,279 Speaker 1: the Gingridge three sixty network and team