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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. There's a baby on the ground.

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Speaker 1: What standard I'm calling that one? Where's he gone? And

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Speaker 1: comment near comin long Yes, m west of the car.

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Speaker 1: I think we'll be somebody around them. We're I'm sad

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Speaker 1: and you are. Can you see the baby from when

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Speaker 1: you are? From where you are? Here? M here? Men

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Speaker 1: you're working about your hole and can you see him breaking?

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. A baby on the ground. Nine one

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Speaker 1: one coming as fast as they can. I'm Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: That baby, little Cooper Harris, just twenty two months old.

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Speaker 1: How did a baby that precious, I mean, aren't all

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Speaker 1: babies precious at that age end up on an asphalt

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Speaker 1: parking lot near a mall with nine one one being

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Speaker 1: called to save his life. I'm a little overwhelmed just

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Speaker 1: hearing it because I know that area so well. There's

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Speaker 1: cars flying by red lights, there's a huge mall near

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Speaker 1: where this call was made, and a tiny, little beady

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Speaker 1: baby lying on the ground. Let's hear more of that

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Speaker 1: nine one one call umlie. We would have people on

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Speaker 1: the line, okay, but I want to get a touch

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Speaker 1: of point okay from you. So we don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's the baby's breathing correction, all right, I didn't heard

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Speaker 1: of us against the charge. Okay, Who in the hay

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Speaker 1: had the baby? Who had little Cooper? Who was in

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Speaker 1: charge of him? How did he get there? Why is

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Speaker 1: nine one one being called? Well, where's daddy? Daddy was

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Speaker 1: driving him home from daycare, or at least that's where

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Speaker 1: he should have been. But listen to our friend Amy

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Speaker 1: Robok at ABC's twenty twenty. Despite Ross's apparent initial distress,

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Speaker 1: the cops Antennas immediately go up. I think that's what

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Speaker 1: police were suspicious so quickly because of his behavior at

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Speaker 1: the scene. Christian Boone covered the story for the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: Journal Constitution. When they arrived, someone else is doing CPR

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Speaker 1: to Cooper. He was talking on the phone to somebody.

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Speaker 1: Auser came out. He yelled at her. Hate was a

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Speaker 1: little raddick who was sitting the back of the squad

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Speaker 1: cart als weeping or very straw and then sort of

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Speaker 1: looking around to see. In their mind, they felt like

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Speaker 1: he was putting on the performance and not a very

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Speaker 1: good one. One of the officers, the best she could

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Speaker 1: describe it as was almost like Will Ferrell. One minute

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Speaker 1: he would be yelling my boy, my boy, next minute

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Speaker 1: he's called, you're hearing again our friends at twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: I was just taken aback. Then when you actually hear

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Speaker 1: the father screaming and carrying on in the background, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at hl N. The big

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Speaker 1: word that came out today from the Medical Examiner's Office homicide,

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Speaker 1: homicide in the manner of death category. They've now found

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Speaker 1: that this was a homicide cause of death hyperthermia the

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Speaker 1: overheating of the body. However, the official manner of death

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Speaker 1: and cause of death will not be released just yet,

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Speaker 1: but they say that the injuries are consistent with homicide

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Speaker 1: as the manner of death and hyperthermia as the cause

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Speaker 1: of death. Joining me now an all star lineup. Kathleen Murphy,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina, a family attorney. Vincent Hill, cop turned PI,

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Speaker 1: author of Pleabook to a Murderer, Doctor Jolie Silva, clinical

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Speaker 1: forensic psychologist, doctor Michelle Dupree, South Carolina medical examiner and

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Speaker 1: author of Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Robin Willinski Crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life, The

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Speaker 1: Cside Behind the Casey Anthony trial on Amazon to doctor

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Speaker 1: Michelle Dupree, explain to me what is did they say

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Speaker 1: hype othermia? This was actually hyperthermia, Nancy, and hyperthermia is

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Speaker 1: just the opposite of hyperthermia. This is when the body

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Speaker 1: cannot regulate the amount of heat it is experiencing. So

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Speaker 1: this is the body getting overheated. Okay, doctor Michelle Dupree,

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Speaker 1: this is not Hansel and Gretel where you leave one

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Speaker 1: little bread crime and then I run to the next one. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna say, break it down. Not

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Speaker 1: everybody listening right now is an MD medical doctor who

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Speaker 1: has performed literally thousands of autopsies and written a book. Okay,

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Speaker 1: how do you get hype er hype er thermia? How

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Speaker 1: hot does it have to be? How long do you

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Speaker 1: have to be in the heat? Is this the same

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Speaker 1: as a heat stroke? What are the symptoms and what

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Speaker 1: does the victim go through? Just for starters, thanks Nancy

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Speaker 1: Broke for getting me back on court. Well again, this

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Speaker 1: is when the body becomes overheated and can't handle the

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Speaker 1: amount of heat. Typically, something above one hundred and four

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Speaker 1: degrees is going to cause a severe reaction. But there's

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Speaker 1: different stages of hyperthermia. It doesn't just happen all at once.

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Speaker 1: The body goes into stress heat stress, when the person

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Speaker 1: becomes dizzy, uncomfortable, nauseous maybe, and they get thirsty. If

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Speaker 1: they get treatment, I eat, if they get water, if

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Speaker 1: they get rehydrated, then it's not such a big deal.

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Speaker 1: If that doesn't happen, the body can go into heat fatigue,

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Speaker 1: and when that happens, those same symptoms of cars but

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Speaker 1: it's just a little bit worse and recovery is a

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Speaker 1: little slower. The person can then actually go into heat syncope,

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Speaker 1: which means that they simply saink once the person is

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Speaker 1: saying is of course they still need to get help

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Speaker 1: and become rehydrated. It gets worse from there. Heat cramps

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Speaker 1: may occur. There can even become heat adema. There may

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Speaker 1: be a rash. Finally, heat exhaustion occurs. And once heat

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Speaker 1: exhaustion occurs again the body is very dizzy, weak. There

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Speaker 1: may be profuse sweating, their coordination issues. Now there's troubled concentrating.

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Speaker 1: There's a rapid pause again that the person can get

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Speaker 1: immediate medical attention and overcome this, but there must be

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Speaker 1: immediate rehydration of the body or starting to rehydrate the bodies,

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Speaker 1: and it's actually very very common. I recall just recently

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Speaker 1: my sister in law, boss wife, had been out in

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Speaker 1: the afternoon playing tennis. She got hot, She kept playing

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Speaker 1: some kind of tournament somewhere, and she comes home, gets

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Speaker 1: in the shower, and she notices she feels oddly. She

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Speaker 1: has a heat stroke and perfectly good health. She had

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Speaker 1: no idea anything was happening other than she was hot

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Speaker 1: and thirsty. That was it. Now I'm thinking about this

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Speaker 1: little twenty two months old baby, and at twenty two

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Speaker 1: months old, they're so helpless, they're so defenseless. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to people I interviewed on the scene. I'm not

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Speaker 1: quite sure why the father ended up in the back

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Speaker 1: of the car, in the back of the police car.

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Speaker 1: When he yelled out fu to the police, I think

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Speaker 1: that pretty much sealed it. What was he doing in

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Speaker 1: the back of the police car, Well, he was sitting there,

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Speaker 1: and then they were detective, a homicide detective that he

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Speaker 1: was about one hundred feet away in a squad car,

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Speaker 1: and they came and they began to speak with him,

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Speaker 1: but he wasn't acting out. He wasn't being violent in

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Speaker 1: the back of the car. Mister Madden, he actually saw

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Speaker 1: the top baby Cooper pulled from the car dead. When

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Speaker 1: you saw what was happening, what was the first thing

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Speaker 1: you observed? The first thing after noticing that the body

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Speaker 1: that was laying on the high pavement was in fact

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Speaker 1: a two year old toddler. I was about four or

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Speaker 1: five feet away from him, of course, ad been Cooper,

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Speaker 1: and then mister Ross I was about three feet away

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Speaker 1: from him, and he was hysterical. He was crying out,

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Speaker 1: he was screaming. He was hollering, my son, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: my son is dead. Oh my god. It just seemed

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Speaker 1: very real, very organic. You stated you were four or

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Speaker 1: five feet away from baby Cooper. What did you observe

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Speaker 1: about him? He looked clean. I saw no bruises. I

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Speaker 1: saw no abrasions. His hair wasn't pulled back. It was well,

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Speaker 1: was he laying on his back or a stomach? He

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Speaker 1: was laying on his back, okay, because the abrasions mostly

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Speaker 1: are on the back of the head where we believe

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Speaker 1: he was banging up against his car sit trying to

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Speaker 1: get out. So was he pale? No, he looked normal.

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Speaker 1: He just was lifeless, but in the last hours a

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Speaker 1: stunning new twist in the case of baby Cooper, we

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Speaker 1: are getting breaking news right now. In another case, it

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Speaker 1: is about the Utah student McKenzie Luke. Let's twitch gears

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Speaker 1: and turn to that very quickly. We are learning that

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Speaker 1: the missing girl, Utah student Mackenzie Luke Frinsay, have spotted

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Speaker 1: activity on her Instagram account which liked another page. Now

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Speaker 1: this is nine days after she goes missing. Now we

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Speaker 1: also learned that at this hour authorities are digging in

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Speaker 1: the back yard of a quote person of interests. That's

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Speaker 1: a major development. No, no one has been called a suspect,

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Speaker 1: but police are saying there is a person of interest.

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Speaker 1: For those of you just joining us, the Utah ho

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Speaker 1: and McKenzie Luke has already member about age twenty three,

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Speaker 1: disappeared coming into town. She texted her mom that she

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Speaker 1: had landed. It was very late at night. We've seen

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Speaker 1: surveillance video offer in the airport. She's texting. She gets

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Speaker 1: a lift ride the lift driver and this can be

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Speaker 1: very find via her texting via the lift computer system.

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Speaker 1: She asks to be taken to a local park about

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Speaker 1: eight miles away from her home. When she gets there.

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Speaker 1: According to the lift driver, she seems happy, no problem.

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Speaker 1: She gets out of the lift driver's car, goes and

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Speaker 1: gets into another unidentified car and joys wait last time

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Speaker 1: she's been seen. That doesn't make sense for a young

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Speaker 1: girl who texts her mom that she just lands. Now.

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Speaker 1: This so called person of interest is Ajahat. He's thirty

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Speaker 1: one years old. He's a former Army IT specialists. He

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Speaker 1: owns a home near the park, and we are also

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Speaker 1: learning recently, according to reports, that after she goes missing,

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Speaker 1: he gives away or puts up for sale a bed

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Speaker 1: and box rings. Now does that mean anything, Maybe not,

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Speaker 1: but it's quite the coincidence. He currently works at Dell

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Speaker 1: as a senior technical support analyst, and he's done that

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Speaker 1: for nearly a year now. Authorities have said they believe

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Speaker 1: the house that they're brother digging has a connection to

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Speaker 1: Luke's disappearance. What does that mean? That's all we know.

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Speaker 1: But when cops are digging in your yard, that's a

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Speaker 1: bad sign. A lot of this is extremely contrary to

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Speaker 1: what we know about her personality, that she would ever

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Speaker 1: be out of touch with friends and family for that fall.

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Speaker 1: But so far as she's missed, Wrooked. She's missed a

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Speaker 1: wedding and apparently missed a flight completely unlike her. We

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Speaker 1: will bring you the latest as it happened. But right

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Speaker 1: now friends are shocked to see that they have discovered

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Speaker 1: activity on her Instagram account since she goes missing. We'll

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Speaker 1: bring you the latest and now straight back to Justin Ross,

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Speaker 1: Harris and the Hot Car Town Prime Stories with Nancy

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Speaker 1: Grace to remember your last moment with Cooper that day.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a morning person, and of course, as usual,

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Speaker 1: I didn't wake up when I wanted to or needed to.

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Speaker 1: I was getting ready to walk out the door. I

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Speaker 1: came back and you know, I told him both bye,

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Speaker 1: and I kissed Cooper. I kissed Cooper goodbye, not knowing

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Speaker 1: that I was literally kissing goodbye. Eight thirty am, Ross

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Speaker 1: loads Cooper into their small suv, first a quick stop

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Speaker 1: for breakfast at Chick fil A surveillance video from that

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Speaker 1: morning shows Ross holding Cooper while they order food. On

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Speaker 1: any other day, Ross would leave the restaurant and turn

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Speaker 1: left at this intersection to drop Cooper off at daycare,

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Speaker 1: But on this hot summer day, Ross drives straight at

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Speaker 1: the intersection towards his office, where he parks and thirty

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Speaker 1: seconds later exits the car. I drove that stretch over

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Speaker 1: and over and over trying to figure out how a dad,

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Speaker 1: just a Ross Harris could quote forget about his baby

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Speaker 1: in just literally minutes, and that Chick fil A video

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Speaker 1: surveillance becomes extremely significant because you see in the video

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Speaker 1: baby Cooper is alive, alert, laughing, totally awake, not asleep

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Speaker 1: in the back of the car with dad's mind wandering.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's just there, alive, awake, just three minutes later.

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Speaker 1: How do you forget your babies in the car. And actually,

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Speaker 1: the decision was made right after Harris pulls out of

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Speaker 1: the Chick fil A, because, as you just heard our

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Speaker 1: friends at twenty twenty, that was Amy Robock when he

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Speaker 1: got to that red light. Instead of turning to take

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Speaker 1: baby Cooper to daycare like he always did, he went

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Speaker 1: straight to his office. So the decision was made right then,

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Speaker 1: less than one minute away from Chick fil A, with

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Speaker 1: the baby talking and laughing as much as a twenty

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Speaker 1: two months all can talk. It was made right then.

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Speaker 1: The baby was not going to day care. Listen to this.

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Speaker 1: He walks across the parking lot, swipes into his building

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Speaker 1: and leaves little Cooper behind. More than six hours later,

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Speaker 1: Ross leaves work at four fifteen pm. Here he is

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Speaker 1: swiping out of his building, casually crossing the parking lot.

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Speaker 1: He gets in the car, seemingly unaware of his son

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Speaker 1: mere inches from him in the back seat. He drives

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Speaker 1: roughly a mile and a half before he pulls over

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Speaker 1: and calls out frantically to onlookers coming exactly what happened?

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Speaker 1: The baby's Britain doesn't look like twenty four pm police

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Speaker 1: rushed to the Strip Mall parking lot, where the former

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Speaker 1: nine one dispatcher is in the throws of his own emergency,

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Speaker 1: keep saying what about done? What have I done? Laid

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Speaker 1: him on the ground, started doing the CPR, trying to

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Speaker 1: resuscitate him. Apparently the child wasn't responding well. A lot

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Speaker 1: of people wonder, how could you forget about your baby

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Speaker 1: for that long in the car? I think I have

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Speaker 1: an idea. Listen specifically on the day of the incident

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Speaker 1: on June the eighteenth, twenty and fourteen, and reviewing the

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Speaker 1: computers and phones and things like that of the defendants,

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Speaker 1: did you uncover anything and what he was doing during

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Speaker 1: that day? While a child was out in the car. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: what did you uncover? He was having up to six

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Speaker 1: different conversations with different women. It appeared from the from

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Speaker 1: the messages from kick mostly, which is a messaging service,

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Speaker 1: and is that a computer related messaging service? It is?

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Speaker 1: And these conversations he was having with these females were

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Speaker 1: these what nature were they? The most common term with

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Speaker 1: these sexting and not only that, sending them online photos

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Speaker 1: of his penis. Let me let that sink in for

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Speaker 1: a minute, because at that time of the morning, I am,

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Speaker 1: you know, cleaning a guinea pig cage. I am trying

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Speaker 1: to get a cup of hot tea, getting the twins

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Speaker 1: going to school. The last thing I am thinking about

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Speaker 1: out is a picture of a man's penis. Okay, now,

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Speaker 1: let me understand something. Robin Wilenski, Crime Online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, no offense to penises whatsoever. Not taking a

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Speaker 1: position on that, Robin, Please help me understand what is

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Speaker 1: this man doing at what seven thirty seven forty five am.

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Speaker 1: He's just left Chick fil At closed on Sunday and

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Speaker 1: he's sexting pictures of his penis and leaves his child

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Speaker 1: in the car to die of hyper thermia. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Dupree. What Nancy, that is quite the segue.

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Speaker 1: I've worked with you for about ten years. Yeah, no

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Speaker 1: one wants to see a picture of his penis at

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Speaker 1: eight thirty in the morning. That said, here's how this

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Speaker 1: all started. By the way, when I first moved to Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: that was my Chick fil At You make the pool

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Speaker 1: my star. Wait a minute, Robin, me too. And this

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Speaker 1: was in law school. I came up here for an internship.

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Speaker 1: I was supposed to stay at sorority House for the summer.

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Speaker 1: That Sunday morning before I was leaving to come to Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: found out somebody left something running in the night. The

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Speaker 1: whole thing burned down. So quickly found an apartment right

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Speaker 1: near that Chick Filly. That's how I know the area

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Speaker 1: so well because I lived there and fought the Atlanta

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Speaker 1: traffic all summer. It's at a very busy intersection. And

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Speaker 1: you make the point that he has seen on the

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Speaker 1: video surveillance with little Cooper, Well, when you come out

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Speaker 1: of that Chick fil A parking lot, you know you

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Speaker 1: were saying, it's about a minute to the light. I

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Speaker 1: could probably do that in thirty seconds you pull out

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Speaker 1: of that parking lot and you go right around the

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Speaker 1: corner and there is a major intersection there with a light,

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Speaker 1: and to go to where the daycare is, you would

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Speaker 1: have to make a hard left at a forty five

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Speaker 1: degree angle, or you would drive straight as we heard

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Speaker 1: in the twenty twenty clip. And thirty seconds later, after

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Speaker 1: you get yourself and your child, your little son breakfast

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Speaker 1: at Chick fil A, little nuggets or whatever you're ordering,

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Speaker 1: how do you, thirty seconds after pulling out of that

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Speaker 1: parking lot, not take your little son who's eating the

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Speaker 1: Chick fil A in the backseat to daycare? How do

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Speaker 1: you go straight at the light? Now, Ross Harris worked

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Speaker 1: at the home Depot, not one of the stores where

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Speaker 1: you buy plants and nails, but he worked at the

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Speaker 1: corporate office, which is in Cobb County, where he was

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Speaker 1: a web designer. So was he that focused on getting

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Speaker 1: to work and you know, getting into the building, or

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Speaker 1: was he thinking about his sexting at his penis pictures.

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Speaker 1: But to me, it's incredible to me if I was

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Speaker 1: a juror and I was taken out a tour of

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Speaker 1: where this Chick fil A is, where he would have

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Speaker 1: made that left turn. I don't know how you would

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Speaker 1: not go in that direction. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 1: Were photos being sent back and forth between these women

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Speaker 1: and the defendant during this day while the child's out

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Speaker 1: in the car. Yes, there were photos of his exposed

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Speaker 1: penis erect penis being sent um. There were also photos

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Speaker 1: of women's breast being sent back to him. Now, did

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Speaker 1: you actually have you located every one of these girls

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Speaker 1: that he's had contact? I have not. Have you located

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Speaker 1: to any of them. I've located two of them. The

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Speaker 1: first one I won't use the user name, but I

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Speaker 1: guess let me for lack of a better term, the

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Speaker 1: older one. Did you speak with her? I did? And

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Speaker 1: what did she say? She stated that she had first

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Speaker 1: met m Ross and she knew him as Ross through

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Speaker 1: um Scout, which is another messaging service, and that he

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Speaker 1: had met up in that he wanted to hook up

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Speaker 1: with her. And did she talk to you and confirmed

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Speaker 1: the nature of what you saw on these these chafts

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Speaker 1: back and forth? Yes, she did. I'm going to turn

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Speaker 1: your tension. Was there also another girl that you met

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Speaker 1: and you've spoken with? I have? And how old is

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Speaker 1: that girl? Because she is seventeen at this time. Okay,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, Wait a minute. Okay, we've got the

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Speaker 1: baby dying from hyperthermia. We've got the chick fil a

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Speaker 1: piece of the puzzle. We've got the I I was

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Speaker 1: distracted because I was sexting photos of my penis part

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Speaker 1: of the puzzle. And now, Vincent Hill cop turn Pi,

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Speaker 1: author of Playbook to a Murder, Did I just hear

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Speaker 1: underage sexting? Number one? He's married, okay, number one, But

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Speaker 1: number two? Did I just hear something about an underage child? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you heard that exactly right. Nancy, seventeen years old and

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Speaker 1: you're sending pictures of your penis while your son's out

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Speaker 1: in the hot car, meaning not only are you a

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Speaker 1: sexual pervert, but you're a pedophile. You're sending pictures to

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Speaker 1: a seventeen year old. Oh my gosh, Nancy, and your

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Speaker 1: son is burning inside of a car. Now, Vincent Hill,

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Speaker 1: let me understand something. You wrote Playbook to a Murder

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Speaker 1: on Amazon. You know, there's a lot of ways to

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Speaker 1: commit a murder, many ways to die. What about death

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Speaker 1: by a hot car? That takes some thinking. That takes

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Speaker 1: some premeditation, Vincent Hill. It takes thinking. It takes planning.

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Speaker 1: This is not something you just at the spur of

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Speaker 1: the moment say oh, I'm just gonna do this because

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Speaker 1: I know it will work. And I'm sure that mister

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Speaker 1: Ross himself was looking for ways to kill his son

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Speaker 1: because there were Google searches of hot card deaths on

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Speaker 1: his search history. Nancy, Okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, excellent point, Robert will Letski, let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the computer searches. I mean, hello, everybody, Unless you take

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Speaker 1: your computer out into the driveway and run over it

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Speaker 1: with your car, beat it with a sledge hammer, you

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Speaker 1: can get forever and ever information off the hard drive.

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Speaker 1: Now that's the computer hard drive itself. There's also tons

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Speaker 1: of data stored out in the cloud, so it's going

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Speaker 1: to be really hard to get rid of computer searches.

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Speaker 1: Robin Wilynsky. We've seen them jump up and bite people

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Speaker 1: in the neck a million times. I don't even have

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Speaker 1: to mention Todd Mom, who was looking up homemade chloroform

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Speaker 1: and neck breaking. I mean that's just one. There's so

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Speaker 1: many examples. They're staggering. Robin, what did justin Ross Harris's

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Speaker 1: computer searches reveal and guys, there is a new update

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Speaker 1: in this case and I'm stunned by it. But about

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Speaker 1: the computer searches, Robin Wilynsky, Yeah, the bottom line is

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Speaker 1: that he looked up a video and it's a man

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Speaker 1: sitting in the front seat of a car talking about

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Speaker 1: how long it would take a dog to die in

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Speaker 1: a hot car with the windows closed in the summer.

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Speaker 1: And the man in the video actually has one of

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Speaker 1: those big circle thermometers, you know where you can see

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Speaker 1: the temperature that people have outside in their garden, and

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Speaker 1: he holds up a big thermometer and you know it shows,

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Speaker 1: you know, ninety two degrees and how hot it would

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Speaker 1: be and how long it would take your pet to die. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that guy is a vet trying to warm people about

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Speaker 1: hot car deaths and leaving your pet in the car.

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Speaker 1: I want to go now to special guests joining me.

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Murphy. Kathleen Murphy, there were all sorts of problems

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Speaker 1: within the marriage. Take a listen to this, Kathleen. These

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Speaker 1: messages in these chats, did they start in the morning,

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Speaker 1: they do, okay, And did they continue throughout the day

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Speaker 1: they do? And when did they end? Around three o'clock

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Speaker 1: that afternoon, so about an hour before he left. Over

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Speaker 1: the objection, Now, this sixteen year old girl, were these

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Speaker 1: chats of the are now seventeen? They started when she

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Speaker 1: was sixteen? Correct? Did these were these sexually involved as well?

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Speaker 1: They were? Okay? Did she send him a picture that day?

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Speaker 1: She did? Of what? She send a picture of her

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Speaker 1: exposed press And did he send any pictures to her?

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Speaker 1: He did? He send a picture of his exposed direct penis.

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Speaker 1: Now we talked a little bit about these computers. Have

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Speaker 1: you guys done examinations on these computers we have? Are

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00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 1: you finished with your examination of these computers? Though we've

396
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 1: only scratched the surface. Now, based upon your review these

397
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: computers and other devices that he's had contact with, is

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Speaker 1: it obvious that he has deleted some of the things

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00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,719
Speaker 1: from from cross referencing these computers and phones and items. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna turn your attention again, Like you said,

401
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Speaker 1: motive as to his marital status issues he's having in

402
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: his state of mind? Did the wife tell you anything

403
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Speaker 1: they were having any problems in their marriage? Leanna stated

404
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: that there have intimacy problems. Yeah, I guess so, I

405
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: guess they are with your husband. Sexting all these women,

406
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Speaker 1: sending photos of his genitals to under age girls. I

407
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: guess there are problems too, Doctor Jolly Silva, clinical forensic

408
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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us. Doctor Silva, It's hard for me to

409
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Speaker 1: fathom blaming your child for a marital problem, much less

410
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Speaker 1: hurting your child because you want out of the marriage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think what happens a lot of times

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Speaker 1: in you know, relationship issues, especially when they're when they're

413
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Speaker 1: having these kinds of problems, is that they're so into

414
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Speaker 1: their own problems and they're so into what's going on

415
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: internally with them that the children just become kind of

416
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Speaker 1: this tool to use to help them advance themselves in

417
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: whichever way they want in the relationship, which is really

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Speaker 1: a hard thing to wrap your head around if you

419
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: are a parent. They they don't have at some point,

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00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: they don't have the ability to put themselves in the

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Speaker 1: child shoes and understand what the child is going through,

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Speaker 1: but rather use the child as a means to get

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Speaker 1: what they want, you know, turning the child against the

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Speaker 1: other parents, or just using the child, you know, to

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Speaker 1: in can what they want to happen in the relationships,

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Speaker 1: you know, just another piece of this, the forgotten baby

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Speaker 1: syndrome is a syndrome because there are an average thirty

428
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: deaths a year that happened to babies because of parents

429
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: leaving their child in a hot car. And it's happening

430
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: like an average of thirty eight times a year, and

431
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: this is one of them. Right. The hard time I

432
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: have with this is the short amount of time, the

433
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: thirty seconds where he claims to have forgotten to make

434
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: the turn to daycare. What happens with forgotten baby syndrome

435
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: is that there's a part of your brain that controls

436
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 1: for habits, so you know when you're driving to work

437
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: or if you have to if you have to. If

438
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: you're driving to work every single day, that's just the habit.

439
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: You're not thinking about it. So if you have to

440
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: pull over to get gasps, you might forget to do

441
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: that because you're habitually. Driving to work is a part

442
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: of the brain that controls for habit where you don't

443
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: have to think to do something. You don't think when

444
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 1: you brush your teeth, you don't have to think when

445
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: you back out of the driver when you're driving to work,

446
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: you don't have to actually think and make any decisions

447
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: because it frees up the part of the brain, the

448
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: decision making part of the brain, to think about other

449
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: things you have to do with forgotten baby syndrome. What

450
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 1: happens in a lot of these cases is that people

451
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,160
Speaker 1: are habitually going through the motions and then don't think

452
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: that the baby is in the back of the car

453
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: because they're in kind of a fog. They're just going

454
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: through the motions. And sometimes what happens is if you

455
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: are doing something in your routine that vh from the

456
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: normal routine, like stopping for breakfast, like stopping for a

457
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: cup of coffee, like getting gas, you'd be more likely

458
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: to have forgotten baby syndrome. Which is what I'm guessing

459
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: is what he is, you know, arguing in his case

460
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: for the hard time I have with it is that

461
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: it's only thirty seconds or a minute where he was

462
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: his brain would have snapped into his habit where he

463
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: would have forgotten about it. So you know that that's

464
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: the hard and also the fact that he was looking

465
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 1: at the videos that they before, you know, a couple

466
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: of days before, and the sext thing. You know, his

467
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: mind would just totally preoccupied with something else, so forgotten

468
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: baby syndrome is a real thing, and a lot of

469
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: these parents are not convicted because of forgotten baby syndrome.

470
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen alone, fifty two babies, fifty two children

471
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: die of the hot car syndrome. You know, he could

472
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 1: argue hot car syndrome, but the Google searches that he

473
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 1: performed just before baby Cooper's death reveal a different story.

474
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 1: I've never ever accept in relation to this case. Looked

475
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: up how many children die in hot cars? How long

476
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: does it take to die in a hot car? Videos

477
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: explaining hot card death. Not only that, when mom goes

478
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: to pick up baby Cooper at daycare and they say

479
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: he's not here, he was never brought here. One of

480
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: the first things she said was, oh, no, I hope

481
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: Justin didn't leave him in the car, so obviously that

482
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: was something that they had discussed. Take a listen to this.

483
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what happened regarding the stench in

484
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: that car when Daddy gets back in and then makes

485
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: his way to a movie. Take a listen. Did he

486
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: approached the car at any point at the scene? He

487
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: did about how long after the defendant had pulled over

488
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: over an hour, and when he approached the car and

489
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: stuck his head Did he stick his head in? He did?

490
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: When he did that, Was there anything of note that

491
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: he noticed an hour and twenty minutes after with the

492
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: door open, Yeah, there was a foule order or a

493
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: stench coming from the vehicle. Now, did you actually access

494
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: that vehicle later as well? I did? And why did

495
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: you do that? We executed search warr on that vehicle

496
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: later on that night. When you executed that search warrant

497
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: and you went inside that vehicle hours later, did you

498
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: notice anything? Yeah, it smelled like it was a final order.

499
00:29:52,040 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: It smelled like decomposition or death. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Now,

500
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: just to prove the elements this crime show, did you

501
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: speak to the emmy about whether this child would have

502
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: suffered cool or excessive physical pain? We did? Okay, what

503
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: did he say? Would it have been a painful death? Yes?

504
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: Did you notice any? Were there any injuries to the

505
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: child's face? There were? And what were those? The way

506
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: it's explained, Um, there were several marks on the child's face.

507
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: It would have come from the child or a scratch

508
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: being made while the child was alive and then not healing,

509
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 1: not scabbing, order over or anything like that. And just

510
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: soon after he passed away. Were there any injuries to

511
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: the child back in the child's head, Yes, there were,

512
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: how abrasions to the back of the childhood. You were

513
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: hearing testimony regarding the death of baby Cooper Harris at

514
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: the trial of dad Justin Ross Harris, Cooper's dad. I'm

515
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is crime stories. Thank you for being

516
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: with us after days and days of testimony. The father,

517
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: Justin Ross Harris convicted. Take a listen to this. The

518
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: court pronounces the following sentence. In the case of the

519
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: State of Georgia versus Justin Ross Harris, Criminal Action fourteen

520
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: nine three one two four as to account one, the

521
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 1: Court imposes the sentence of as to malice murder, with

522
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: the jury having found the defendant guilty. Sentence of the

523
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: Court is life to serve in confinement without parole. As

524
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: to account to felony murder guilty. It's vacated by law

525
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: due to the conviction on account one as to count

526
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: three felony murder disposition by the jury of guilty. It

527
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 1: is also vacated by law due to conviction on account

528
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 1: one as to account for cruelty to children in the

529
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: first degree the jury having found the defendant guilty. The

530
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: sentence of the court is twenty years to serve in confinement.

531
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 1: This will be consecutive to count one malice murder life

532
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 1: to serving confinement without parole. What that means is even

533
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: after a life without parole's sentence, he still will serve

534
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: a twenty year sentence. Justin Ross Harris, convicted for leaving

535
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: his taught son in a hot car to die at

536
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: this hour, is still in solitary confinement. Quote for his

537
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: own safety bombshell. Now Harris filing a round of appeals

538
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: in a bid to get out of jail. Justin Ross

539
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 1: Harris sentence to life behind bars in two sixteen. He's

540
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: been in jail since two fourteen. Is demanding a new

541
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: trial over the death of his taught son at just

542
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: twenty two months old. Ross Harris living the high life

543
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: until his son dies in the back seat of his car. Remember,

544
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 1: goes into work, stays there all day and even isn't

545
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: this true? Robin Willinski goes out to lunch with some

546
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: of his friends, insists they take him to buy lightbulbs,

547
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: comes where they can see him, gets them to let

548
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: him off at his car with the baby in the

549
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: car at lunchtime, opens the back door where the baby is,

550
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: puts the lightbulbs in the seat, slams the door, and

551
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: goes back into work. Isn't that true, Robin accurate? How

552
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: is he demanding a new trial? He claims that the

553
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: judge in the case allowed some testimony in that shouldn't

554
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: have been there, and that was against him, and this

555
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: and that, and so he's hired a new lawyer and

556
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: he wants a new trial, and this could come up

557
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: in the next six months where his attorney has been

558
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: his new attorney has been given time to come up

559
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: with a date and say what are you going to

560
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 1: be read? And this is serious because not only is

561
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: he enlisted the services of a brand new lawyer, the

562
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: founder and president of Kids and Cars dot org that

563
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: I've read many many times, Jeanette Fanelle, the founder and

564
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: president of Kids and Cars dot Org, says Ross Harris

565
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: is innocent and this was just a tragic memory loss

566
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: and that killed Cooper Bombshell. Now, the dad sent to

567
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: prison for life twenty sixteen after leaving his son in

568
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 1: a hot car to die, has filed a new appeal

569
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: and with the help of the founder of kids and

570
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: cars dot Org may very well get it. You know,

571
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: he's complaining now about life behind bars, but I want

572
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: you to hear about something else he complained about. Cobb

573
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: County Assistant District Attorney Chuck Boring says, Ross's range behavior

574
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: continues in the back of that police car, complaining about

575
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: everything from the cuffs to believe it or not, it

576
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: being too hot in the back seat. Within a minute

577
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: or two, if you're you allegedly discovering your son deceased

578
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: in the back of your car, you're in the patrol

579
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: car planning about how hot it is in the back

580
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: of the car that struck police as well. How would

581
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: you expect a grieving father who had accidentally placed his

582
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: child in the back seat and left him there. How

583
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: would you expect someone in that situation to act? I

584
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: think it's fair to say that there's a spectrum of reactions.

585
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: You can't say one person is going to react a

586
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: certain way, and Ross Harris's behavior was out of that spectrum.

587
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: It was absolutely outside the norm. When word spreads of

588
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: Ross's arrest, an outraged public quickly comes to his defense.

589
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: The community thought it was just a horrific tragedy that

590
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: it was a horrible accident. I think a lot of

591
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: people can understand why the police were holding Ross Harris. Well,

592
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: those Google surgieres didn't help his case, looking up hot

593
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: car desk just before his son dies in a hot car.

594
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 1: So then he's complaining when he's put in the police

595
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: car after yelling FU to the police and becoming belligerent

596
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: with them at the scene of his son's the discovery

597
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: of his death, he's sitting in the backseat of the

598
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 1: car and he starts complaining about how hot it is.

599
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: All the cops just look at each other. I mean, really,

600
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: the irony of that. And now he is demanding a

601
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 1: new trial, and he seems to have enlisted the aid

602
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: of Kids and Cars dot Org. We'll see about that.

603
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: Right now, his defense attorney, Rodriguez, is saying that Harris

604
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: has found emotion for a new trial, arguing prejudicial testimony

605
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: admitted by the judge made it an absolute impossibility for

606
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: him to get a fair trial. You know a Vincent Hill,

607
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: private investigator, former author of Playbook to a Murderer, the

608
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: founder and president of Kids and Cars dot org. It's

609
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 1: an organization focused on edgy hating everyone about the dangers

610
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: of leaving children in hot cars. Agrees that Harris is innocent.

611
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: She says, quote, parents have so many things coming at them.

612
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: Attention spans are getting much, so much shorter. Our Brian's

613
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,280
Speaker 1: can't keep up. I don't believe that for one minute.

614
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, Yeah, Nancy, here's some problem I have with that.

615
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: He stops at the Chick fil A and listen, we're

616
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: all parents here. Do you know when kids get you know,

617
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: that greasy food. They're happy, they're jovulant, they're talking. And

618
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: he's in the car with his son, who's probably like, yes,

619
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: I got lay, I'm drinking my Jews. How do you

620
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: forget that your child is in the car, Nancy. And

621
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 1: outside of that, you cannot escape the Google searches of

622
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: hot card death. That shows intent. Now, if there was

623
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: a Google search of how to do a mass shooting

624
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: and he left his son in the car, that's a

625
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 1: different story. But the fact that you've searched how to

626
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: conduct a hot card death shows your intent. You can't

627
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: get around that. Well. Police say they were suspicious from

628
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: the very beginning when they removed his son's lifeless body

629
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: from the suv. The child had been in the car

630
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: for seven hours. Right now, Justin Ross Harris, now seeking

631
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: a new trial. Will he walk free? We wait as

632
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: justice unfolds. Nancy Grace Crime story, signing off goodbye friend,