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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. We have an amazing

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Speaker 3: show today, don't.

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Speaker 4: We amazing show today and perhaps more amazing Counterpoints content

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Speaker 4: in the future. We've been teasing this for a while,

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Speaker 4: but we're actually very very close right now.

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Speaker 5: If enough people go to Breakingpoints dot com before the

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Speaker 5: end of this hour, and there might even still be

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Speaker 5: a discount, subscribe to the premium version of the show,

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Speaker 5: then we will do a Friday show.

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Speaker 4: Make sure to subscribe to the potium one Today show.

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Speaker 4: We might do it anyway.

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Speaker 3: Well, subscribe it almost like a threat.

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Speaker 4: Yes, Well, today we're going to start, obviously in Arizona.

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Speaker 4: Huge news from the Supreme courtner zoning yesterday on an

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Speaker 4: abortion ruling one hundred and sixty year old abortion ruling

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Speaker 4: that is now in effect in the state of Arizona.

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Speaker 4: Will break it all down. We're then going to talk

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Speaker 4: about Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin's a conversation with Tom Cotton

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Speaker 4: during testimony in front of Congress yesterday, and some other

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Speaker 4: big updates out of this.

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Speaker 5: CNN has a new investigation into the Flower massacre. Looks

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Speaker 5: very similar to the World Central Kitchen massacre. Looks to

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Speaker 5: be a deliberate assault on the distribution of aid for

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Speaker 5: the purpose of what Lloyd Austin says is not happening.

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Speaker 3: So we'll break that down.

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Speaker 4: People can also see Ecuador on the screen. Not every

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Speaker 4: day that we have Ecuador on the Counterpoints Rundown, but.

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Speaker 3: Today we is a wild one good reason to.

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Speaker 4: Talk about Ecuador, and a really interesting guest.

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Speaker 5: Yes, you may remember gaili Long, former foreign minister from

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Speaker 5: a previous show. He's now going to join us because

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Speaker 5: Mexico yesterday released harrowing video of Ecuadorian police raiding the

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Speaker 5: Mexican embassy in Ecuador, dragging out the leftist vice president

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Speaker 5: who they've charged with corruption, and kicking off an international incident.

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Speaker 3: And we'll talk about the US response to the behavior of.

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Speaker 5: Its US backed regime in Ecuador, which is quickly becoming

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Speaker 5: going from one of the safest countries in South America

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Speaker 5: to be a US back narco state.

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Speaker 4: So Martya Taylor Green is on the precipice of moving

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Speaker 4: to vacate the chair charity. I guess filed the motion,

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Speaker 4: but when she pushes faux vote on it is anybody's guests.

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Speaker 4: And one of the big reasons for that is actually

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Speaker 4: a really admirable fight over Section seven two that Freedom

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Speaker 4: Caucus type Republicans and Justice Democrat type members can come

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Speaker 4: together on and try to get to some reform. It's

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Speaker 4: a huge surveillance mechanism. We've talked about it many times

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Speaker 4: and most of you are probably familiar with it. But

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Speaker 4: there's a lot going on. The Biden administration is backing

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Speaker 4: a terrible reauthorization bill.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, and that vote is today and tomorrow.

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Speaker 5: So this is a six month fight over surveillance authorities

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Speaker 5: that is coming down today. Donald Trump weighed in on

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Speaker 5: truth Social We'll try to figure out what he was

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Speaker 5: trying to say.

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Speaker 4: And Norfolk Southern agreed announced that it will settle for

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Speaker 4: six hundred million dollars with victims in East Palestine, So

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Speaker 4: we'll bring some details, talk a little bit about that,

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Speaker 4: and an NPR business reporter of twenty plus years penned

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Speaker 4: an essay in The Free Press yesterday. It was super buzzy,

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Speaker 4: kind of blowing the whistle on NPR. But I think

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Speaker 4: Grann and I will have a lot to talk about

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Speaker 4: in that segment. Yeah, all right, let's start in Arizona.

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Speaker 4: We can put a one up on the screen. This

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Speaker 4: is a report from NBC News in which they point

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Speaker 4: out this one hundred and sixty year near total abortion

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Speaker 4: band that's still on the books in the state was

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Speaker 4: ruled enforceable by the Arizona Supreme Court yesterday. They call

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Speaker 4: it a bomb cell bombshell decision that adds to the

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Speaker 4: state growing lists of places where abortion care is effectively banned.

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Speaker 4: Now more from the article. This is an eighteen sixty

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Speaker 4: four law in the middle of the Civil War, before

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Speaker 4: Arizona was a state. It made a or a felony

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Speaker 4: punishable by two to five years in prison for anyone

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Speaker 4: who performs an abortion or helps a woman obtain an abortion. Now,

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Speaker 4: there's some back and forth in the courts after row,

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Speaker 4: as happened in a lot of states. Arizona is similar

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Speaker 4: to a lot of states in this respect. The Civil

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Speaker 4: War era law NBC rights, enacted a half a century

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Speaker 4: before Arizona even gains statehood, was never repealed, so an

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Speaker 4: appellate court ruled last year that it could remain on

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Speaker 4: the books as long as it was quote harmonized with

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Speaker 4: a twenty twenty two law, leading to substantial confusion in

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Speaker 4: Arizona regarding exactly when during a pregnancy abortion was outlawed.

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Speaker 4: The other thing I think is worth noting in this

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Speaker 4: case is that the Attorney General of Arizona has said

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Speaker 4: that she's not going to enforce it, but local prosecutors

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Speaker 4: can enforce the old law. So that's not entirely comforting

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Speaker 4: to supporters of abortion in Arizona or even opponents of

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Speaker 4: this move from the Supreme Court. The other thing that

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Speaker 4: I want to point out that I haven't seen in

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Speaker 4: a lot of media reports is the way the Arizona

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court handled this. Basically, they said, we think a

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Speaker 4: decision of this gravity should be left to the people

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Speaker 4: of Arizona. Basically that there's legislative supremacy over the court

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Speaker 4: in this case, so it's not sort of like the

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Speaker 4: Alabama you know, sort of what's the best way to

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Speaker 4: put it, like Judeo Christian theological decision about IVF. They're

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Speaker 4: actually just saying that we think the people of Arizona,

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Speaker 4: this is almost I'm paraphrasing from the decisions the people

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Speaker 4: of Arizona, the legislature of Arizona, their representatives should make

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Speaker 4: a decision on this, and in fact, it looks like

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Speaker 4: that's what's going to happen in Arizona later this year.

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Speaker 5: It's like, hey, you know, the people of Arizona spoke

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Speaker 5: in eighteen sixty four, fifty years before Arizona was a thing,

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Speaker 5: and there were probably what fifteen settlers you know who

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Speaker 5: passed on him and voted on that.

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Speaker 4: And like how you said before Arizona was a.

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Speaker 5: Thing, Yeah, I mean it was a thing. It was

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Speaker 5: like part of Mexico and it was part it was,

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Speaker 5: you know, home to you know, a lot of indigenous

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Speaker 5: population still at the time. But yeah, seven of them

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Speaker 5: got together and wrote a law banning abortion. And so

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Speaker 5: now but yes, so before we get into Kerry Lake's

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Speaker 5: response here, the stage was set by Arizona Republicans. And

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Speaker 5: you correct me if I'm wrong, as you follow this

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Speaker 5: closer when they passed this fifteen week abortion ban in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty two, before Roe v.

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Speaker 3: Wade was overturned, and they.

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Speaker 5: Put into that law a provision that said, if Roe v.

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Speaker 5: Wade is ever overturned, then actually forget this fifteen week ban.

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Speaker 5: We're going for broke. The entire eighteen sixty four law

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Speaker 5: goes into effect. And that's why the court was able

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Speaker 5: to make this completely ridiculous ruling and go back to

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Speaker 5: eighteen sixty four because they had re upped it in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty two. And it's also why Carrie Lake kind

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Speaker 5: of knew ahead of time that this was going to happen.

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Speaker 3: So it's not as if she can say she was

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Speaker 3: caught off guard here.

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Speaker 5: Carrie Lake, of course the Republican senatorial candidate in Arizona.

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Speaker 5: So we can put up her reaction here to this ruling,

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Speaker 5: which is saying that this would be a three. You know,

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Speaker 5: this is her saying, I oppose today's ruling and I

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Speaker 5: am calling on Katie Hobbs in the state legislature to

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Speaker 5: come up with an immediate, common sense solution that Arizonas

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Speaker 5: can support. What's odd about this reaction is that she

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Speaker 5: was asked about this in twenty twenty two. And this

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Speaker 5: is in a presidential debate. This is not like a

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Speaker 5: gotcha moment with somebody on a rope line. Here she

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Speaker 5: is in a twenty twenty two senatorial debate.

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Speaker 6: Carrie will start with you on this one. The new

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Speaker 6: law banning abortion, well, the new law banning abortion in

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Speaker 6: Arizona after fifteen weeks. There's that law, and there's a

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Speaker 6: territorial era law which bans all abortion, zippo. Over which

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Speaker 6: law do you think should take effect?

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Speaker 5: My personal belief is that all life matters, all life counts,

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Speaker 5: and all life is precious.

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Speaker 3: And I don't believe in abortion. I think the older

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Speaker 3: law is going to take is going to go into effect.

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Speaker 4: That's what I believe will happen.

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Speaker 6: Okay, but you approve of that at conception?

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Speaker 3: I believe life begins at conception. Okay. What do we

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Speaker 3: do about abortion pills? What do we do about I.

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Speaker 4: Don't think abortion pills should be legal, not in Arizona.

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Speaker 5: So there you have Carrie Lake saying, look, I suspect

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Speaker 5: and I support the older law going into effect.

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Speaker 3: Did she not?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 3: What explains the change in two years?

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Speaker 5: Is it the she lacking that Republicans took and the

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Speaker 5: polls in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's absolutely I've sort of seen the

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Speaker 4: pattern after Row and again, like Doug Doocey passed that law,

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Speaker 4: he was the governor of Arizona, considering.

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Speaker 3: He was on two Are complaining about it, he was on.

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Speaker 4: Twitter campaigning about it. It's considered sort of moderate, and

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Speaker 4: Doug Deucy said, this is not the outcome that I

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Speaker 4: would have preferred, and actually a lot of Arizona Republicans

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Speaker 4: it reminded me in many ways to what happened in

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Speaker 4: Alabama after the IVF ruling came down, where you had

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Speaker 4: a sort of race among Republicans to get out that

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Speaker 4: statement condemning the ruling and saying, you know, it's not

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Speaker 4: a workable solution. It's basically sounding similar to Democrats on

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Speaker 4: some of those questions, but with the caveat that I'm

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Speaker 4: really pro life, but X, Y and Z.

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Speaker 5: So it really is like condemning the panther eating your face,

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Speaker 5: you know, after you nominated the panther to the court

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Speaker 5: and signed into law legislation that enabled the panther to then.

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Speaker 3: Eat your face.

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Speaker 4: It does seem like there was something intentionally ambiguous about

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Speaker 4: what happened with the fifteen week ban versus. Yeah, it

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Speaker 4: does seem like that, but obviously Dougducy says it's not

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Speaker 4: the outcome that he would have preferred. Carrie Lake is

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Speaker 4: back pedaling. I saw a senior advisor to Carry Lake

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Speaker 4: talking to Steve Bannon yesterday saying, you know, this is

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Speaker 4: obviously Democrats. Basically Democrats have a huge electoral gift in

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Speaker 4: the question of abortion, and so there has to be

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Speaker 4: a way to talk about this. And that puts the

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Speaker 4: writing on the wall for where Carry Lake is going

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Speaker 4: to go going forward. Now, I think a lot of

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Speaker 4: Arizona voters are going to be heading to the ballot

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Speaker 4: box and making decisions based on economics their pocketbooks in

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Speaker 4: the fall. I think it's probably going to be a

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Speaker 4: heavy border related election. But man, in terms of mobilizing

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Speaker 4: the base or demobilizing the base, not getting people excited

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Speaker 4: to vote for, for example, Carry Lake, brutal just I

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Speaker 4: mean that will matter the margins.

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Speaker 5: So you think Carry Lake going kind of kind of

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Speaker 5: wobbly on this from the rights perspective, could kind of

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Speaker 5: hurt her with some I think for ground support, Well,

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Speaker 5: what do you mean by that.

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Speaker 4: I think it's the type of thing that makes a

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Speaker 4: kind of the oposite. It makes a suburban woman who's

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Speaker 4: really upset with what they see is radical policies from

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Speaker 4: the Democrats, from Joe Biden, from Gaho, all of those things,

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Speaker 4: say I just I'm not going to vote. I can't

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Speaker 4: vote for Kerry Lake. You know, I don't like the

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Speaker 4: other guys, but I'm not going to vote for Kerry Lakes.

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Speaker 3: I'm staying home, Okay. Yeah, Or they become single issue.

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Speaker 4: That on that question, finitely, that'll happen too.

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Speaker 5: And come out and say, look, this is we're not

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Speaker 5: going to be governed by seven settlers from eighteen sixty four.

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Speaker 4: I also think this is such a bad This is

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Speaker 4: just a particular, particularly egregious flip flop on such a

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Speaker 4: high profile issue for Kerry Lake, where she's on tape

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Speaker 4: one way and now it's it just that's one of

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Speaker 4: those things that seeps into your public persona during an

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Speaker 4: election like this. It's hard to get rid of that.

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Speaker 4: Nobody likes to see that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and yeah, the SoundBite is not great for her

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Speaker 5: because she also tried to do a little play on

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Speaker 5: like all lives matter, Yeah, like she's too kind web brained,

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Speaker 5: and I'm sure she regrets that.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, how do you not see

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Speaker 3: that coming?

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Speaker 5: Like, if you're going to be a calculating politician, then

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Speaker 5: be the calculating politician in twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: Also, wasn't an ancient history. I guess the only.

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Speaker 5: Thing you say is that it was pre row and

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Speaker 5: that she genuinely just did not grasp, you know, what

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Speaker 5: a electoral albatross it would be. Although she seems to

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Speaker 5: be in the minority on that, most people who were

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Speaker 5: have been pushing this. You're you know, you've been very

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Speaker 5: open about this that like this is our view, but

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Speaker 5: it's not. It's not an electoral winner. Maybe, so maybe

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Speaker 5: she's not. Maybe she hasn't thought about it enough, Like

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Speaker 5: maybe it's more of a surface issue for her, because

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Speaker 5: if you're if you spend any time thinking about it,

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Speaker 5: you're like, this is not going to work out electorally.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, And you know I heard Nancy Mace talking about

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Speaker 4: that as a Trump surguit actually on NPR yesterday. She

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Speaker 4: did pretty good interview with MPR. As much as a

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Speaker 4: loath to like congratulate Nancy may sometimes, but she talked

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Speaker 4: about it as a survivor of rape, she said, I

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Speaker 4: understand why there need to be exceptions, and I understand

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Speaker 4: why this is terrifying to women basically, And you can

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Speaker 4: see that's just it's very They didn't expect to have

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Speaker 4: to talk about this in that way. They didn't expect

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Speaker 4: post row, and I think that's the big mistake of

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Speaker 4: both the pro life movement and the Republican Party. There

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Speaker 4: was just not preparation, adequate preparation for what would happen

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Speaker 4: if Roe fell. People and people on the left too.

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Speaker 4: It just seemed so unthinkable that this would actually happen.

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Speaker 4: It was like the pipe dream of the pro life movement,

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Speaker 4: and it was the nightmare of the actual Republican Party,

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Speaker 4: where people are sort of moderately against abortion, but mostly

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Speaker 4: in favor of winning elections and gaining more and more power.

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Speaker 4: So I just Carrie like to me as an example

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Speaker 4: of somebody who was really riding high on the Trump wave,

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Speaker 4: somebody who was super popular with Trump's base ultimately lost

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Speaker 4: the election. When a lot of people said, carry Lake

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Speaker 4: is going to win this thing, like she's a man,

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Speaker 4: I've never seen anything like it before. She lost, But

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Speaker 4: she was riding really high, and I think the bubble

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Speaker 4: kind of popped.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and so if we can put up a five.

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Speaker 5: This is this is to Emily's point earlier that the

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Speaker 5: Attorney general has said, you know that she won't enforce

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Speaker 5: this a reminder of sometimes every vote does matter. Two

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Speaker 5: hundred and eighty votes separated the Democrat and the Republican

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Speaker 5: in the Attorney General's jacey. If you remember, that was

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Speaker 5: one of the races. It wasn't called for weeks and

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Speaker 5: weeks and weeks. She she won it, and now she's

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Speaker 5: saying that she's not going to force us. Like you said,

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Speaker 5: local prosecutors you know, still still can do that in

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Speaker 5: the in the fall, it looks like Arizona is going

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Speaker 5: to have a constitutional you know, referendum. Basically in every

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Speaker 5: single state, including Montana, Kansas, Kentucky, abortion rights have triumphed

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Speaker 5: at the ballot box. And so the ones that we're

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Speaker 5: looking at this time are what we got potentially in Florida, YEP, Arizona.

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Speaker 4: Florida, Maryland, New York looks like now definitely it's going

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Speaker 4: to happen in Arizona. They have to collect three hundred

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Speaker 4: and eighty four thousand dollos signatures by July fourth.

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Speaker 3: That should be quite doable. Now that's the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 4: Kyle, we could do it today. Yes, So it looks

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Speaker 4: like that constitutional amendment, as you said, Ryan, is going

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Speaker 4: to be there. Their efforts underway also in Arkansas, Nevada,

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Speaker 4: South Dakota, Montana, Missouri, Colorado. It's possible but unlikely according

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Speaker 4: to the AP's analysis, that it ends up on the

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Speaker 4: boot in Iowa, Maine, and Pennsylvania in the fall. But

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Speaker 4: a lot of swing states in there, obviously Florida, Arizona, Nevada,

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Speaker 4: maybe Missouri and Colorado. But states where this is going

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Speaker 4: to be a huge issue. Is this is better for

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Speaker 4: turnout for Democrats than Republicans. There's just no question about

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Speaker 4: it at this point. So actually, in a way, by

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Speaker 4: kicking this back to Arizona voters, what the Supreme Court

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Speaker 4: did is give Arizona voters a chance to get rid

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Speaker 4: of the fifteen week Doug Doosey law.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: What I when I saw that ruling and I wanted

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Speaker 5: to check was this Democrats?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: On this seriously, who or do they just really hate

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Speaker 3: Carry Lake?

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Speaker 5: Like Carry Lake must be thinking to us, So what

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Speaker 5: have I done to this Arizona Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: I think there to treat me this way.

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Speaker 4: Well, this also happened the day after Donald Trump sort

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Speaker 4: of you know, chrisln Sager talked about this, but had

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Speaker 4: a little bit of an earthquake or induced a little

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Speaker 4: bit of an earthquake in Republican politics with his statement

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Speaker 4: on abortion. And his statement on abortion was one that

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Speaker 4: basically only Donald Trump can get away with. It's sort

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Speaker 4: of a blueprint for other Republicans. And that's where you

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Speaker 4: see Kerry Lake, her senior advisors, Nancy Mace, all kind

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Speaker 4: of clustering in that region, which is basically saying things like, look,

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Speaker 4: we think the voter should have the voters are wildly

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Speaker 4: against the Democratic position, which is to not ban third

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Speaker 4: trimester abortions. We all basically agree that somewhere, you know,

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Speaker 4: meeting in that second trimester is the way to regulate abortion.

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Speaker 4: We don't agree with you completely cutting off access. There

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Speaker 4: have to be exceptions, and you know, it is an

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Speaker 4: electoral disaster, blah blah blah. That's sort of like taking

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Speaker 4: from Trump adapting it to different candidates. But I don't

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Speaker 4: know how what works if you're not Donald Trump in particular,

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Speaker 4: there's just It's like when he went off on Hillary

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Speaker 4: Clinton and that one debate you remember, where he was like,

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Speaker 4: she wants to rip babies out of wombs. At the

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Speaker 4: same time, he also believes like pro life Mike Pence

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Speaker 4: type people are kind of crazy and everybody knows it. Yeah, frankically,

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Speaker 4: like everybody knows it.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, yes, he's creeped out by them, yes, but

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Speaker 5: he also every time during his presidency when he was

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Speaker 5: in trouble, that's.

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Speaker 3: Who he would go back to.

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Speaker 4: The pro life community because they know.

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Speaker 3: It most ardent supporters, and so he knew it and

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Speaker 3: they knew it.

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Speaker 4: They know it and really resent it. That's part of

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Speaker 4: the reason that people were really upset yesterday is on Mondays.

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Speaker 4: So they feel like they've really been taken for granted

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Speaker 4: by Donald Trump, that he'll go to them when he

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Speaker 4: needs that kind of bolstering.

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Speaker 5: But then nobody can be happy in America, even the

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Speaker 5: even the anti abortion crowd that got rov Wade overturned

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Speaker 5: by Trump.

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Speaker 3: I think you got to cut the guy some slack.

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Speaker 5: He delivered to the right the thing that they've been

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Speaker 5: gunning for for fifty years.

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Speaker 3: You sound like, yeah, there you go. I mean from

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Speaker 3: their perspectives like, come on, what do you want from

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Speaker 3: this guy?

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Speaker 5: He obviously is personally pro completely opposed to everything you

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Speaker 5: guys believe in, like culturally, but he's doing it anyway,

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Speaker 5: just cynically, So just ride that.

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Speaker 4: No, I agree with that position completely.

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Speaker 5: Although it's going to get ritten right in the ground

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Speaker 5: right Like the effect that this is having on Republicans,

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Speaker 5: it's interesting to think what kind of Republican party you'd

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Speaker 5: have if the court just decided not to do that.

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Speaker 5: You'd have probably ten twenty extra Republics in the House.

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Speaker 5: They probably control the Senate right now and maybe control

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Speaker 5: the Center for the next fifty years.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think that's an

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Speaker 4: interesting question because I feel like the benefits have been

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Speaker 4: pretty marginal to people like olisa slot Can, and like

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Speaker 4: there are just some races where like, okay, clearly women

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Speaker 4: were super motivated. The pattern of turnout looks like it

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Speaker 4: was here. But I think it's a lot of Republicans

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Speaker 4: have had this interesting position like this needs to hardcore,

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Speaker 4: like anti abortion people like myself have said like this

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Speaker 4: is you're not going to solve this problem. Rodrer had

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Speaker 4: a good post on this Isessuary you're not going to

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Speaker 4: solve this problem at the ballot box at this point.

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Speaker 4: All you're going to do is have catastrophic losses on

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Speaker 4: every other policy issue. If you force an issue at

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Speaker 4: the ballot box, that's going to lose time and again

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Speaker 4: because the culture is not anywhere near the anti abortion

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Speaker 4: movements position on it, So like what's the wisdom? But

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Speaker 4: on that side, you get immense pressure from people in

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Speaker 4: the pro life movement who are against this incrementalism as

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Speaker 4: like it, and so that's I mean, it's it's a

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Speaker 4: smaller and smaller wing as time goes by, But like

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Speaker 4: people in the anti abortion movement actually are facing pressure

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Speaker 4: from their right, even like hardcore people from their right.

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Speaker 4: That is like, and again it's understandable if you believe

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Speaker 4: that ending in life after conception is murder, it's understandable

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Speaker 4: why people would be against the incrementalism. But politics of

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Speaker 4: the possible, I mean, it's just there's really no path and.

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Speaker 3: Correct people wrong.

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Speaker 5: They often would make parallels to the abolition or the

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Speaker 5: anti slavery movement absolutely, which just was a fundamental misreading

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Speaker 5: of everything, but like it had the same moral force

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Speaker 5: to those particular people who were involved in it. But

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Speaker 5: they what they didn't understand is that there is a

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Speaker 5: day after you overturn rows.

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Speaker 3: And so if you've got this gorilla.

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Speaker 5: Which is different than the Civil War and emancipation, now,

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Speaker 5: well we don't need to go into reconstruction and Jim.

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Speaker 3: Crow and all of that, but there's a day after row.

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Speaker 5: And so they run this gorilla campaign to take a

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Speaker 5: minority position and make it the law for the majority

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Speaker 5: by taking over the courts. But then in the decision

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Speaker 5: they kind of didn't have the guts to go all

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Speaker 5: the way. Like Alido in the decision says, the Constitution

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Speaker 5: is silent on the question of abortion, and therefore it

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Speaker 5: needs to go back to the states, to the states,

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Speaker 5: and it could even go to Congress. So now you

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Speaker 5: you but you recognize that you're a minority position and

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Speaker 5: you had to run a gorilla campaign to ban it.

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Speaker 5: Now you've thrown it up to the public for them

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Speaker 5: to vote on.

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Speaker 4: The public's not with you.

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Speaker 5: And now you're Roger like, oh, maybe voting isn't the

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Speaker 5: way to do this. Let's go back to the course.

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Speaker 5: Well you just did. What else is there there's I mean,

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Speaker 5: there's like he's saying, wage a cultural war persuade people.

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Speaker 3: But okay, good luck with that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's really the only route. I mean, that's

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Speaker 4: the only way to do it. And it's it's not

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Speaker 4: a you know, it's it's definitely not a one that's

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Speaker 4: looking great. But Sager pointed this out yesterday on Twitter. Basically,

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Speaker 4: he's like, listen, the whole the message of the pro

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Speaker 4: life movement, my entire life was let's kick it back

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Speaker 4: to the States, and you know that's and now they're

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Speaker 4: saying exactly the opposite.

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Speaker 3: Of that to the point you just made not like that.

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Speaker 4: But what I think is interesting about that is, yes,

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Speaker 4: the Republican Party said that the pro life movement itself

439
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 4: as a whole has Yeah, because again, there are a

440
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 4: lot of students of a lot of like deep students

441
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,920
Speaker 4: of John Brown and the abolitionist movement in the pro

442
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 4: life movement, and that take that comparison really seriously do

443
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 4: see it as a civil rights issue, and in that case,

444
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 4: incrementalism to a lot of people looks ridiculous. So again,

445
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 4: there's just plenty of people in the Republican Party who

446
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 4: are not logically intellectually consistent in their positions on abortion.

447
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 4: And I feel like that. I'm very curious about Kerry Lake,

448
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 4: who spent most of her life as a Democrat. I'm

449
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 4: very curious as to if she ever thought some of

450
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 4: that stuff through, because from Republican politicians, a lot of

451
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 4: the pro life talking points are cynical, and you know,

452
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 4: they're necessary in primaries, and then when push comes to shove,

453
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 4: it's like, well do I really Usually not, because they're

454
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 4: electoral consequences that don't jive with the logically consistent position, right.

455
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 5: And basically, if you're trying to enforce minority position on

456
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 5: a country that still has some democratic mechanisms in place,

457
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 5: you can't.

458
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 7: Do it's nice.

459
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,160
Speaker 5: You either have to be kind of have dictatorial power,

460
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 5: or like you said, you have to have a cultural

461
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 5: revolution where everybody just where you win over a majority,

462
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 5: you persuade a majority of people to.

463
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 3: Agree with you.

464
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 5: But you know, the polling and our global experience suggests

465
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 5: I think that's not going to happen. But I would

466
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 5: love to see them like try like that. I think

467
00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 5: to me, that is the appropriate way to do it.

468
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 5: Go try to persuade people rather than having the court,

469
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 5: you know, come down and tell people what to do.

470
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 5: So yesterday, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin showed up at Congress

471
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 5: and he was protested during his speech, as pretty much

472
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 5: everybody is who comes to Congress to talk about anything

473
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,479
Speaker 5: touching on the Israel Gaza war. He was accused of

474
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 5: facilitating genocide. And so after the protesters left, Center, Tom

475
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 5: Cotton engagement in a bit of a back and forth

476
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 5: about whether or not there is a genocide going on

477
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 5: and whether or not the US and.

478
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: Israel are affecting it. There let's listen to his response.

479
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 8: Secretary Austin, thank you for acknowledging in response to Center

480
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 8: Wicker that Hamas committed war crimes on October seventh and

481
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 8: has been committing them every day since by using human shields.

482
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 8: I want to address what the protesters raised earlier, is

483
00:24:52,119 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 8: Israel committing genocide and Gaza. Senator gott And I, we

484
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 8: don't have any evidence of genocide being created. So that's

485
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 8: a no. Israel's not committing genocide and Gassa, we don't

486
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 8: have evidence of that.

487
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 5: What do you make of the You know, he could

488
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 5: say yes, he could say the ICJ has said there's

489
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 5: a plausible case for genocide.

490
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 3: He could say no. Instead, he said, we don't have

491
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 3: evidence for it. What do you make of that?

492
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 4: He said, we don't have evidence for it. And then

493
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 4: he also said there's quote no question that there have

494
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 4: been quote far too many civilian casualties throughout the Israel

495
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 4: Hamas war, and that he is stressed to jo Abgalante

496
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 4: that Israel's military must protect civilians. So my basic takeaway

497
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 4: of this is it's super characteristic of the Biden administration's

498
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 4: attempt to have it both ways, right, like they want

499
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 4: to be citing international law in one case and then

500
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 4: shirking it in another. And I know a lot of

501
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 4: people are familiar with the definition of genocide at this point,

502
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,199
Speaker 4: the UN accept a definition, the ICC definition. I'm just

503
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 4: going to read it again because I think it's worth

504
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 4: talking about in the context of the exchange. In the

505
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 4: so they say genocide means any of the following acts

506
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 4: committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part,

507
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 4: a national ethnical, racial, or religious group. So in whole

508
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 4: or in part a national ethnical, racial, or religious group.

509
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 4: And the reason I bring that up is because again

510
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 4: it shows how the Biden administration wants to have it

511
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 4: both ways on international law. And that's I think this

512
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 4: definition of genocide, which was adopted in the aftermath of

513
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 4: World War Two, is lacking. I think if you are

514
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 4: destroying quote in part, a national group, basically anything that

515
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 4: Israel did after October seventh would have been categorized as

516
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 4: genocide in whole a national group. When you have an

517
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 4: Ethno state and another Ethno state, there's just no way

518
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 4: to have that battle. I'm not saying it's right. The

519
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 4: way is real prosecuted the war. I don't agree with

520
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 4: that at all, But I also don't think that this

521
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 4: definition of genocide has stood the test of time because

522
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 4: it's just I mean, there's almost no way to prosecute

523
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 4: a war after October seventh, or to respond after October seventh,

524
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 4: which even Hamas expected what happened and not fall into

525
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 4: that definition.

526
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 5: Because it really depends on the definition of the legal

527
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 5: definition of In part right, because you know, Hamas killed

528
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 5: several hundred Israeli civilians on October seventh, does that count

529
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 5: as in part?

530
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 3: Legal experts generally say no, that's not what we mean.

531
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 4: We had one on the show.

532
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 3: In Part right, and he was saying no.

533
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 4: He was saying no because in October seventh, right, he

534
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 4: was saying Hamas may have the intent, but they don't

535
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 4: have the capability, whereas Israel has the capability. And that

536
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 4: is an understandable distinction. But yes, that question of in

537
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 4: part is huge.

538
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,119
Speaker 5: And so said Ericott at the State Department, asked a

539
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,439
Speaker 5: really good question which goes to this where he did

540
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 5: not obviously get a really good answer. But the question

541
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 5: is one to sit with, which is is there a

542
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 5: definition of genocide that would allow Bosnia and Rwanda to apply.

543
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 3: But not Palestine.

544
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 4: Oh, that's interesting.

545
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 5: Because the US is comfortable with saying this was this

546
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 5: was a genocide in Rwanda, this is a genocide in Bosnia.

547
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 3: The International Court.

548
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:22,640
Speaker 5: Of Justice, everybody around the world is comfortable saying, right, well,

549
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 5: the Wigers.

550
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 3: He also mentioned Rohina.

551
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 5: I believe because the Wigers you don't have the you

552
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 5: have the cultural destruction, a cultural genocide, but you don't

553
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 5: have the kind of mass death that you had in Rwanda,

554
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 5: the Rohina and in Bosnia. And also that one is

555
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 5: contested more more so than the than you know at

556
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 5: the international level Bosnia Rwanda, but.

557
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 4: A lot of people that embraced that one would.

558
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 5: Exactly exactly like you'd have, you know, right, ask Jack

559
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 5: Sullivan or Blincoln exactly right, They're gonna leave at that one.

560
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 4: It's just so, it's it's and it's typical. I mean,

561
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 4: we talked last week about this quote that came across

562
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 4: an Oliver Norse memoir recently where he said, you know, Israel, Britain,

563
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 4: they were all selling arms to Iran. The thing that

564
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 4: really disappointed me. And I know saronic obviously coming from

565
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 4: Oliver North, but in his memoir he says, the thing

566
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 4: that really disappointed me is basically the United States was

567
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 4: like lecturing everybody to not do it right while doing it.

568
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 5: Reminds me of this famous Chomsky interview where he's asked

569
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 5: what's the difference between counter terrorism and terrorism and he

570
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 5: says terrorism is when they do it. The counter terrorism

571
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 5: is when we do it. So, speaking of terrorism, if

572
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 5: we can put up the third element here Gozen's returned

573
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 5: to their neighborhood of Conunis over the last couple of days,

574
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 5: now that the IDF has withdrawn, to find it unrecognizable

575
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 5: the way the Associated Press lead says, stunned Palestinians found

576
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 5: their home city unrecognizable Monday as they filtered in to

577
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 5: estavage what they could from the vast destruction left by

578
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 5: Israeli troops who withdrew from Southern Gaz's con units a

579
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 5: day earlier after months of fight and bombardment, and the

580
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 5: scenes out the scenes are utterly dystopian. Uh and we

581
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 5: and you don't know, you know, how many people are

582
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 5: still buried under this this rubble Uh. Families who who've

583
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 5: returned back can't even kind of figure out which block

584
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 5: is theirs anymore because it's just so completely flattened and

585
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 5: rubble strewn. The reporter sees them by one plastic red

586
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 5: flower that they that helps him identify, like our apartment

587
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 5: was over here, and the mom puts that, puts that

588
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 5: in a bag as as they're headed back to who

589
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 5: knows where. And as the Associated Press points out in

590
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 5: this article, this is what Rafa would look like if

591
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 5: if who you know moves forward with with that, with

592
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 5: that coming invasion, and he has said it's they now

593
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 5: have a date, you know that it's it's going to happen.

594
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 5: There's been reports that when the Israelis and the Americans met,

595
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 5: the Israeli suggested that they're going to buy tents, hundreds

596
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 5: of thousands, you know, tents for hundreds of thousands of

597
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 5: people that they're going to move kind of somewhere else.

598
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 4: They've already bought forty thousand and.

599
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're are already trying to purchase forty thousand. And

600
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 5: the Americans asked, well, okay, that's that's one thing, but

601
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 5: you've got what about food, what about sewage treatment?

602
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: You know, what about the water, like, what about the other.

603
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 5: Things that you know, one point three million people would

604
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 5: need to survive And that that was kind of that

605
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 5: was kind of brushed off. Going to the question of

606
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 5: whether or not there's any evidence of genocide. It's one

607
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 5: thing to say that there that Okay, we haven't come

608
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 5: to a final conclusion that there're you know, one hundred

609
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 5: percent certainty that genocide is happening. As Lloyd Austins had

610
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 5: to say, there's no evidence denies the actual evidence that

611
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 5: we do have on the ground. And one of those

612
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 5: and we can go to this next element is before

613
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 5: the CNN put together an interesting investigation into the flower

614
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 5: massacre of late late February.

615
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 3: This was one of.

616
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 5: The turning points I think for a lot of you know,

617
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 5: global global opinion. The US had purchased enough flower to

618
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 5: feed millions you know, to create millions of meals. And

619
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 5: for about a month, Isra was keeping this flower out,

620
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 5: not letting it into, not letting into Gaza. Finally, a

621
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 5: Connecticut based kind of charity was able to contract with

622
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 5: a couple of trucks and work with the IDF, which

623
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 5: escorted it in with tanks. And the very first day

624
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 5: that this flower that had been waiting outside for so

625
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 5: long came in, the idea starts opening fire.

626
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: And this is what the CNN investigation.

627
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,719
Speaker 5: Finds IDEAF initially said, actually, we never fired, and then

628
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: later said we fired warning shots, and then they said

629
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 5: we fired at quote unquote suspects. Cianna has obtained a

630
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 5: bunch of different videos from Palestinians who were there, who

631
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 5: were filming at the time that this happened, that showed

632
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 5: that their time line is a lie, that they fire,

633
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 5: that they started firing at people who were at the.

634
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: Checkpoint, and to me, if.

635
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 5: You add everything else together, the fact that they had

636
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 5: been keeping this out for so long and it had

637
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 5: only let it in under intense pressure, and then you

638
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 5: learn from this reporting that they did open fire on

639
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 5: people waiting for them and then did lie about it.

640
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 3: And it did then lead to.

641
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,479
Speaker 5: What they wanted, which was the rest of the flower

642
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 5: not getting in, which then did lead to what they

643
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 5: also have said publicly that they wanted, which is depriving

644
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 5: Palestinians of food. It's it's kind of one more deliberate act.

645
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 5: And so that that's why I say that there is evidence.

646
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 5: Whether or not that Lloyd Austin wants to say it's

647
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 5: conclusive evidence is a different question.

648
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: But there's evidence.

649
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 4: But this is Netnyahu's version of the Biden problem, and

650
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 4: that he has people saying, you know, yes, use food

651
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 4: as a weapon of war. In what case throughout human

652
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 4: history has food not been used as a weapon? In

653
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 4: what case throughout human history are people feeding the nation

654
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 4: that they are at war with. Well, it's kind of

655
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 4: what we decided to do after the horrors of World

656
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 4: War Two. It's kind of how everyone came to the

657
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 4: table and said, you can't let that happen again. So

658
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 4: if you agreed to those standards of war, then yes,

659
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 4: But there are people in net Yah who's right saying

660
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 4: why are we doing this? This food is going to

661
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 4: be used to bolster the people who are trying to

662
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 4: kill us, And so net Yahoo again has to kind

663
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 4: of try and have it both ways and not say

664
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 4: outright that they you know, there's a position in the

665
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,800
Speaker 4: Israeli government, and there are factions in the Israeli government

666
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 4: that don't want to feed Palestinians because it's it's not

667
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 4: conducive to flattening Gaza, it's not conducive to their definition

668
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 4: of winning the war, which is still, by the way,

669
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 4: completely unclear. The Biden administration, which to a point that

670
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 4: you and Crystal and and Tager often make, is essential

671
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 4: to the prosecution of this war from Israel's position, is

672
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 4: not even cued in on what the date is. That

673
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 4: Yahoo is not telling them the date of this invasion

674
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 4: of Rafa, probably because of leaking concerns, intelligence sharing concerns.

675
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 4: But that just tells you how how fraught the relationship

676
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 4: is right now, or if it.

677
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 3: Even exists, or if it's a bluff throughout the exactly.

678
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 7: You know.

679
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 5: Hamas reported earlier this week on its on its various

680
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 5: public channels that that in one day, in three different engagements,

681
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 5: thirteen IDF at least thirteen IDF soldiers had been had

682
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 5: been killed in combat. Yesterday, they posted some some video

683
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 5: confirming that that had in fact happened.

684
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 3: These kind of setbacks are lining up.

685
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 5: With the IDF announcing that it's withdrawing from these significant

686
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 5: areas of southern Gaza. So in some ways it might

687
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 5: just be public facing bluster from that Yahoo that that

688
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 5: actually a ground invade is not something that the IDF

689
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 5: thinks is kind of advantageous at this point when it's

690
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 5: also continuing to threaten and be threatened by Asbilla up

691
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,240
Speaker 5: in the north. Plus we have waiting in the wings

692
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 5: the Iranian response to Israel's attack on the Iranian consulate

693
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 5: in Damascus, which was a massive breaking of international norms,

694
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 5: which brings us to our next segment on another massive

695
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 5: breaking of international norms which seems to perhaps triggered, you know,

696
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 5: by Israel getting a green light to go ahead and

697
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 5: attack as consulate and Damascus may have led to Ecuador

698
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 5: believing that it could just smash its way into the

699
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 5: Mexican embassy in Keto and drag out the former Vice

700
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,839
Speaker 5: President will have kind of harrowing footage of that up next,

701
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 5: and will also be joined by Ecuadorian for Foreign Minister

702
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 5: Gilby Longs.

703
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 3: Stick around for that.

704
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 5: People may remember this wild footage from back in January

705
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 5: out of Ecuador. We can roll up this first vo here.

706
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 5: This was a group of gangs. Gang leader was broken

707
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 5: out of prison in Ecuador. The climax of this wild

708
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 5: incenti that you're looking at here is these gang members

709
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 5: taking over a TV station live on air, holding people hostage,

710
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 5: and really putting an exclamation mark on what had become

711
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 5: an extraordinary kind of devolution in Ecuador from one of

712
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 5: the safest countries in South America to basically what is

713
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 5: drifting towards a narco state run by kind of US

714
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 5: back gangs at this point. Now that brings us to

715
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 5: just last Thursday, that there was this remarkable moment on

716
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 5: the international stage where you had Ecuadorian forces burst into

717
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 5: the Mexican embassy. So this footage was released yesterday by Mexico.

718
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 5: These are kind of basically Ecuadorian stormtroopers here outside of

719
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 5: the embassy, burst busting their way in here.

720
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: They're looking for the former vice president.

721
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 5: They run into embassy staff as you see here, top officials.

722
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 5: They are throwing, throwing, throwing old diplomats down, down onto

723
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 5: the down, onto the ground, uh and and dragging out

724
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 5: uh the former vice president who had been formally offered

725
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 5: asylum by the Mexican government. It's it's hard to describe

726
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 5: a greater breach of international norms other than perhaps an

727
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 5: airstrike on an embassy has happened in Damascus quite recently. Now, uh,

728
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 5: the US took two days to respond with a very

729
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 5: modest statement where they where they condemned, where they didn't condemn.

730
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 5: They the headline on their statement was events at the

731
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 5: embassy of Mexico in Ecuador.

732
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: Then these of the.

733
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 5: United States condemns any violation of the of the Vienna

734
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 5: Conveys on diplomatic relations, so just generally condemning, but they

735
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 5: never go one to specifically condemn what had just happened.

736
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 5: This is forty eight hours earlier, bear in mindset. And

737
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 5: then they write, Mexico and Ecuador are crucial partners of

738
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 5: the United States, and we place a high value on

739
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 5: our relations with both countries. We encourage the two countries

740
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 5: to resolve their differences in accord with international norms, so

741
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 5: really taking a hands off approach there. They continued to

742
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 5: be under pressure to say something about what their US

743
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 5: backed government had done in Keto, and so Jake Sullivan

744
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 5: yesterday came out at the White House Press briefing, and

745
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 5: this is how he addressed it.

746
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 9: Finally, I also want to take a moment before going

747
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 9: to your questions to address the events of April fifth

748
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,360
Speaker 9: in Quito, Ecuador. We condemned this violation of the Vienna

749
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 9: Convention on Diplomatic relations, including the use of force against

750
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 9: embassy officials. We've reviewed the security camera footage from the

751
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 9: Mexican embassy and believe these actions were wrong. The Ecuadorian

752
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 9: government district guarded its obligations under international law as a

753
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 9: host state to respect the inviolability of diplomatic missions and

754
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 9: jeopardize the foundation of basic diplomatic norms and relationships.

755
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 5: The backdrop of all of this is quite interesting if

756
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 5: we can put up this fourth veo here. This is

757
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 5: former National Assemblyman Ronnie Aliaga, who you're looking at here,

758
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 5: who has created a huge stir in Ecuador over the

759
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 5: past several weeks by releasing text messages between him and

760
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 5: Diana Salazar, who was the US backed Attorney General in Ecuador.

761
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,920
Speaker 5: It was Salazar who issued the arrest warrant against the

762
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 5: former vice president and before Daniel Niboa issued the order

763
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 5: to carry it out inside the embassy. And what Aliaga

764
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 5: has been saying is that the text messages between him

765
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 5: and her confirm that she and the US ambassador have

766
00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 5: been working hand in glove on various prosecutions and and

767
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 5: political interventions over the past several years, and that Salasar

768
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 5: is effectively kind of the US's closest ally inside Ecuador

769
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 5: and is being groomed, being groomed for the presidency. What

770
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 5: we can add to this, I've spoken to the former

771
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 5: National Assemblyman for several hours over the past couple of

772
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 5: weeks and he and he passed on to me we

773
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 5: can put this up on the screen here, a forensic

774
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 5: analysis of his of his two phones, because there's a

775
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 5: lot of speculation in Ecuador that he is making this

776
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 5: entire thing up, so he sent his He basically allowed

777
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 5: a Miami based firm to have access to his his

778
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,799
Speaker 5: phones and they confirmed that in fact, these text messages

779
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 5: between him and the number that appears to belong to

780
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 5: Salas are are in fact accurate.

781
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: So to kind of give us more.

782
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 5: Background on all of this is the former Foreign Minister

783
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 5: of Ecuador, Giomi Long Giomilan, is joining us from like

784
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 5: much of the government of Rafael Korea of exile, and so,

785
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 5: first of all, Foreign Minister Long, thank you so much

786
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 5: for joining us.

787
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 3: Really appreciate it.

788
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 10: Thanks very much for the invitation. I'm not formerly in exile,

789
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 10: but I certainly.

790
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 11: Don't live in Ecuador right now, unlike many of my

791
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 11: former colleagues who are in exile who enjoy political asylum

792
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 11: in a number of countries, actually Mexico being one, which

793
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 11: we'll discuss with you, Argentina also, but also Belgium, where

794
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 11: former President Correa himself has been granted political asylum.

795
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 7: It's not my case, but I don't I don't, I

796
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 7: don't even ever go about them.

797
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 3: Would you feel safe going back to Ecuador.

798
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 5: At this point or do you think that the kind

799
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 5: of persecution of your party is so broad that there

800
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 5: might be some risk.

801
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean I've been going back to Ecuador. I've been.

802
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 10: I went back in the most recent elections in October

803
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 10: twenty twenty three. I was also there in August twenty

804
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 10: twenty three. I've been going back regularly, and I have

805
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,240
Speaker 10: family in Ecuadors, so I do go back.

806
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 7: But and it was.

807
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 10: Better for a while, it's gotten significantly worse now. Again,

808
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 10: there was allal a little bit, but yeah, I mean,

809
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 10: for a few years I did not go back, and

810
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 10: it has been unsafe, largely speaking for well for Ecuadorans

811
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 10: because of the general security situation in Ecuador, but also

812
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 10: for obviously the political left. Yeah, there are lots. I mean,

813
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 10: the deep state is very active and very noticeable if

814
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,959
Speaker 10: you've been part of the Gorrega government at some point

815
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 10: in time.

816
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, So tell us about Hoorge Glass, the former

817
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 5: vice president who was dragged out of the Mexican embassy.

818
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 5: You know what was, what's behind, what's behind these charges,

819
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 5: and what do we know about his safety because as

820
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 5: I understand it, the Americans privately did finally tell the

821
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 5: Ecuadorian government that he ought not to be harmed while

822
00:43:59,080 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 5: in prison.

823
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 3: We'll see you know how effective that is.

824
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 11: Yeah.

825
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,080
Speaker 10: So the story of persecution necro is a long and

826
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 10: complicated one which I'm not going to go into many

827
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 10: details a belt, but this censed them. The big pivotal

828
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 10: moment is when Lenny Moreno becomes president in twenty seventeen,

829
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 10: elected on a continuity ticket after Correa.

830
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 7: He had been a former vice president of Korea.

831
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 10: Then he betrays that and does a U, turn sides

832
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 10: with the Trump administration, does all the things that many

833
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 10: of US know about, you know, throws Assange out of

834
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:37,800
Speaker 10: the London embassy, brings Pompeo and Mike Pence Taquito, and

835
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 10: then signs loads of deals, including an IMF deal, grants

836
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 10: an an airstrip in the Galapagus to the Pentagon in

837
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 10: South comm And so I really realigns geopolitically within this

838
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 10: spield of the United States and within this field of

839
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 10: the Trump administration.

840
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 7: Right.

841
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 10: And then he organizes a referend in twenty eighteen, which

842
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 10: is the big problem till this day. So I'm just

843
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 10: going to say quick word about this, the referen And

844
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 10: while he was still popular, a few months later he

845
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 10: would have lost it, and he ended his term as

846
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 10: the most unpopular president in Ecuadorian history. This is Lenin Modno.

847
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 10: But when he had held referendum, he was still in

848
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 10: his honeymoon and supported by the media, managed to pass

849
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 10: this referendum. And there were a few questions. One of

850
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 10: them was to bar reelections so that Korea could never

851
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 10: be president again. But the other crucial question was to

852
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 10: do an overhaul of the judiciary, if you like, to

853
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 10: purge the judiciary.

854
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 7: The government morena government.

855
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 10: I actually called it a decorrealization if you like, this

856
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 10: a Spanish term, but the dec corea with the president

857
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 10: the Ecuadorian states, and so you have to get rid,

858
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 10: purge all the Correista elements of the Ecuadorian state and

859
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 10: actally includes the judiciary.

860
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 7: And then he.

861
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 10: Managed to name all the series of new very direhard

862
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 10: anti Korea judges who then started the persecution. And this

863
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 10: was a persecution that was essentially carried out in twenty

864
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 10: nineteen and twenty twenty in part against fortge Glass, who

865
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 10: ended up in jail. He did he purchaed six years

866
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 10: in jail, and another one a big case involving several people,

867
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 10: including President Correa himself, who got an eight year jail sentence,

868
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 10: but because he was already living abroad in Belgium, the

869
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 10: Belgium government, seeing that he was the actual sentence says

870
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 10: Correa was guilty of psychic influence over others to commit crimes. Right,

871
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 10: this is actually in the sentence. So the Belgium government

872
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 10: eventually gave Korea a political asylum based on the fact

873
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 10: that there was a clear case of political persecution.

874
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,600
Speaker 7: Interpol also denied several arrests read alerts.

875
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 10: They're called for the arrest of Korea, and so internationally

876
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 10: the case crumbled, if you like, but domestically in Ecuador

877
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 10: they doubled down on this, and there is an arrest

878
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 10: warrant for Korea for several other people and Glass, because

879
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 10: he was in jail, they managed to start. As soon

880
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 10: as he was free, they managed to start a new case,

881
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 10: which is even more ludicrous than the other is this

882
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 10: essentially has to do with the reconstruction funds after the

883
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 10: earthquake of twenty sixteen. Ecuador had terrible worth Coak in

884
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 10: twenty sixteen, and Glass was as vice president, was in

885
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 10: charge of the reconstruction, and they're saying he use those

886
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 10: funds not for reconstruction, which okay, he headed a committee

887
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 10: and those funds were actually used for economic dynamism, you know,

888
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,479
Speaker 10: to stimulate the growth and so on and so.

889
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 7: Forth, so that's not strictly reconstruction.

890
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 10: So they're not even accusing him of stealing money using them,

891
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 10: of not using the funds for reconstruction but for something else, which.

892
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 7: Was also public policy. So the whole case is a sham.

893
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 10: So he saw that it was a new sham, and

894
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,919
Speaker 10: so he sought asylum in the Mexican embassy there would

895
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 10: be in a number of Ecuador and to form a

896
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 10: correac collaborators former minutes and so on and so forth

897
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 10: seeking asylum in a Mexican embassy. Over the last few years,

898
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 10: several of them would give granted safe passage in during

899
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 10: the previous administrations to enjoy their political asylum as the

900
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,280
Speaker 10: technical term, you know, to be able to reach Mexico

901
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 10: and enjoy their political asylum there. But this time under Noboa,

902
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,720
Speaker 10: ECUADORI refused to grant the safe passage and in fact,

903
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 10: as we saw this weekend, quite dramatically storm the embassy,

904
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 10: which is a massive violation. We could talk about this

905
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 10: of Article twenty two of the nineteen sixty one Vienna

906
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 10: Convention on Diplomatic Relations, which is really the ground flow

907
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 10: of international law, right, it is the convention that establishes

908
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 10: before any other agreement on international law is made. What

909
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 10: you know, how we're going to interact between states? What

910
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 10: are essential rules of the game of diplomacy. You know,

911
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 10: you have an embassy in my country, I have one

912
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 10: in yours. We can't touch those. It's kind of common sense.

913
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 10: Everybody knows that. You know, anybody's watched the kind of

914
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 10: you know, an action movie knows that you don't storm

915
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 10: the embassy, right, it's pretty common sense. But they violated that,

916
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 10: and it's one of the few times that's ever been

917
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 10: done in Latin American history. So it's very traumatic and

918
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 10: right now, I could always very isolated.

919
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 4: So actually on that, I know Ryan has questions about Vienna,

920
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 4: but I also wanted to ask for people in the

921
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 4: States trying to like put these puzzle pieces together. This

922
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 4: question of why is Amlo involved to this degree, and

923
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:23,879
Speaker 4: obviously the big picture context about crime and cartels and

924
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 4: COVID and poverty and all of that sort of comes together,

925
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 4: and Amilo's relationship with Korea and with the sort of

926
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 4: exiled from her Korea allies. Can you tell us a

927
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:38,439
Speaker 4: little bit about maybe what's in it for Amlo, why

928
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 4: Amlo and Mexico are involved to the degree that they're involved,

929
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 4: and maybe how that speaks to that big picture question

930
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 4: of Noboha and Buclea and a lot of Latin American

931
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 4: politics kind of in general.

932
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, that's actually a great question. I mean, it's Amlo,

933
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 10: but it's also Mexico. Mexico has a long history of

934
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 10: being this sort of land for asylum seat, so we

935
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 10: played a key role in the nineteen fifty four Karakas

936
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 10: Convention on Asylum, which is sort of a piece of

937
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 10: international law that Latin Americans are quite proud of, Latin

938
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 10: American diplomats are quite proud of, because it was a

939
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 10: precursor law in international law that Latin Americans drafted in

940
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 10: the inter American system to protect asylum seekers, and it

941
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 10: was key in a number of ways to establish the

942
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 10: rules what the rules of political asylum are.

943
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 7: So Mexico played a big role in that.

944
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 10: But then in the sixties, seventies and early eighties, in

945
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 10: the sort of heyday of military dictatorship, particularly in the

946
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 10: Southern Code, Mexico was the land of exile or political

947
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 10: asylum of the opponents that were being persecuted by all

948
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 10: these military Cold War US backed largely military regimes. So

949
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 10: Mexico became famous as a sort of safe haven. It

950
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 10: never did have the military regimes that other countries in

951
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 10: Latin America had, and so Mexico's kind of got this

952
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 10: kind of prestige. There's also something called the Estrada doctrine,

953
00:50:58,200 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 10: which is a doctrine of a former foreign minutes to

954
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 10: Mexico that has a big impact on the doctrine of

955
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 10: Mexican foreign policy, but the foreign policy of other Latin

956
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 10: American states. So there's a whole sort of Mexican I

957
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 10: will say, almost the institutional culture of international law and

958
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 10: asylum law, which is symbolic here, and it kind of

959
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 10: had been a little bit abandoned in the last ten

960
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 10: twenty years in Mexico, you know, after joining NAFTA stopped

961
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 10: sort of being seen like this, and AMLO really insisted

962
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 10: on bringing back this sort of age old tradition of

963
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,760
Speaker 10: Mexico being a land of asylum. And when you had

964
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 10: during the Trump years this kind of conservative backlash in

965
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 10: Latin America, including coups like in Bolivia, like where did

966
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 10: people seek refuge? Where did people hide? You know, people

967
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 10: who had been part of Evo Morales's cabinet. So they

968
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 10: went to the Mexican embassy. I actually they went to

969
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 10: the Mexican and the Spanish embassy in the Bolivian case,

970
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 10: and in Ecuador, when Moreno started persecuting the left, they're same,

971
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 10: they went to the Mexican embassy, and AMLO eventually granted

972
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 10: people asylum, and a number of people asylum. Right now,

973
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 10: Mexico is the place where there is the greatest number

974
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 10: of Ecuadorian refugees. There is some in Argentina, has just said.

975
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 10: President Corprea himself is in Belgium, but lots of people,

976
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 10: lots of former ministers are in Mexico. So Glass went

977
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 10: to the Mexican embassy. This seemed to be the logical

978
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 10: sort of place to go to. And yeah, I think

979
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 10: it speaks of two things, so answering a question, One

980
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 10: is Mexican tradition. The other is Amlo, who's kind of

981
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 10: on the political left, so there may be some sympathies there,

982
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 10: but I think it's more of a political left that

983
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,399
Speaker 10: wanted to revive this age old Mexican tradition right and

984
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,920
Speaker 10: to go back to the estrata doctrine I've just mentioned.

985
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 10: And the other element is, of course the geopolitical context,

986
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 10: with since twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, a sort of right

987
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:56,799
Speaker 10: wood shift in the hemisphere which is less aggressive now

988
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 10: because Bolsonado's not there anymore, and have been a few

989
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 10: victories for the left in Colours and Chile elsewhere, but

990
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 10: there was fifteen twenty sixteen a big pendudu shift to

991
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,479
Speaker 10: the right and an authoritarian right which persecuted people, which

992
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 10: meant there were suddenly, just as you had in the

993
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 10: sixties and seventies, Mexico playing that role again.

994
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 5: And let me ask you about these charges that have

995
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 5: been leveled by Ronnie Aliaga in his conversation with me

996
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 5: and also in these videos that have gone viral inside Ecuador.

997
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 5: One of the charges he made is related to the

998
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 5: assassination of Fernando Vievisensi via Essensio. People will remember, probably

999
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 5: we covered this. This was the presidential candidate, kind of

1000
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 5: anti corruption crusader who was assassinated out right after a

1001
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 5: rally as he's walking to his car. People probably remember

1002
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 5: seeing that footage. What Aliaga says is that Diana Styles

1003
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 5: Are the Attorney General, told him that she had dinner.

1004
00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 5: She had a dinner with the US ambassador, and the

1005
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 5: US ambassador told her that they had three field offices

1006
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:04,879
Speaker 5: working on this because Viavisensio was a high level kind

1007
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 5: of US informer US asset uh and that they were

1008
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 5: putting out a five million dollar reward for any information

1009
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 5: leading to his killing, and that they knew their investigation

1010
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 5: had already uncovered the fact that it was the Los

1011
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 5: Lobos gang that was behind his assassination, these are Narco traffickers,

1012
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 5: but that Correa's party was surging in the elections, the

1013
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 5: first round was coming in two weeks, and that it

1014
00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,439
Speaker 5: would not be good to get that information out because

1015
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,960
Speaker 5: the time the Ecuadorian media was blaming Correa and Correa's

1016
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,919
Speaker 5: party for this, for this assassination.

1017
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 3: So it's better to you know, allow that to play out.

1018
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 5: Rather than give a gift to the left, you know,

1019
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 5: heading into the election. Niboa does end up then winning

1020
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 5: a very tight election in the second round against Correa's party.

1021
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 5: So what do you make of these allegations from Aliaga

1022
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,839
Speaker 5: and are they how seriously are they being taken.

1023
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 10: In So these allegations which are just coming out, and

1024
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 10: you know, it seems they seem to be certified by

1025
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 10: this by this US.

1026
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 7: Based verification, you know it verification.

1027
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 10: Outfit, which is going to be very important because he's

1028
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 10: going to have the proof that this is legitimate. Uh,

1029
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 10: These they're going to I mean only just starting to

1030
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 10: play out now, and because of what's just happened in

1031
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 10: the Mexican embassy in Ecuador, this kind of news cycle

1032
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 10: that is focused on that. But I think once the

1033
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 10: story is out and once it's it hits the mainstream press,

1034
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 10: including outside Ecuador, it's going to have a huge impact

1035
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 10: because they confirm a lot of our suspicions and a

1036
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 10: lot of the accusations that were leveled at Salas R

1037
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 10: back then, and I've been leveled at Salas are back.

1038
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 10: So that's the sort of equivalent of the attorney general

1039
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 10: in Ecuador. FI scale can always say in Ecuador, the

1040
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 10: prosecutor general, if you like, who did not prosecute and

1041
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 10: has did not accelerate investigation before the elections, as you

1042
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:03,440
Speaker 10: just said, because it would have deflected attention or accusations

1043
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 10: away from Cosmo and Kraismo was ahead in the power

1044
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 10: and she's been the arch persecutor of Coraismo and the

1045
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 10: left in Ecuador in the last few years.

1046
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 7: So it's extremely serious.

1047
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 10: But it would mean that the prosecutor general, the attorney

1048
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 10: general would would have acted in a politicized way, would

1049
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 10: have decided to not investigate a crime and who the

1050
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 10: authors of that crime are, or at least delay it

1051
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 10: for political purposes so that you know, Coraismo would get that,

1052
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 10: you know, the the yeah, I would get accused of

1053
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 10: this crime during elections, and bearing in mind that Bavisensio

1054
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 10: was an arch opponent of coraismo, sort of one of

1055
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 10: those kind of very yeah, I mean, sort of played

1056
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 10: the role of a whistleblower, you know, and sort of

1057
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 10: a very you know on the media, constantly sort of

1058
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 10: throwing accusations pretty much against everybody. He was that kind

1059
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:12,279
Speaker 10: of character, and he was we always suspected supported by

1060
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 10: the United States. We're now going to see whether there's

1061
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 10: any more evidence for this, but this was kind of

1062
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 10: vox popular, right. It was the rumor everywhere in the

1063
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 10: political circles that censor was essentially a US agent. Whether

1064
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 10: that's exactly true or order, whether he was supported in

1065
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 10: some way or another, we're going to find out. And

1066
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 10: then when he was murdered, when he was assassinated in

1067
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 10: something which really hurt Ecuador and democracy and the ecuador elections,

1068
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 10: right because he was a presidential candidate, and this is

1069
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 10: the first time in contemporary history that you have a

1070
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 10: presidential candidate that's murdered in Ecuador. I mean, he wouldn't

1071
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 10: have won the elections. It didn't change the outcome. While

1072
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 10: it did in a way, but it wouldn't It's not

1073
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 10: as if it was leading the polls. He was depending

1074
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 10: on different polls, in fourth, fifth place, sixth place, whatever.

1075
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 7: But you know, it was still traumatic, was you know,

1076
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 7: a crucial sort of Yeah.

1077
00:58:02,680 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 10: It was a political well known politician in Ecuador was

1078
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 10: running for the presidency. He was murdered, and there are

1079
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,680
Speaker 10: lots of suspicions at the time that his murder was

1080
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 10: politically motivated in order to hurt Karismo.

1081
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 7: That because he was such sort of an art.

1082
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 10: Critic of Charismo, because he was, you know, constantly throwing

1083
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 10: accusations of Coarismo.

1084
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 7: The natural conclusion of that.

1085
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 10: Would be that it was Corraismo that had him murdered,

1086
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 10: which so you see after his murder, which was on

1087
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 10: the ninth of August, I believe yes, and the actually

1088
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 10: of August, you see between the ninth and twentieth of August,

1089
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 10: a decline of the leading candidacy of the Cordista candidate,

1090
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:47,000
Speaker 10: the left wing candidate, and she, you know, Luisa Gonsiles

1091
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:53,600
Speaker 10: lost probably eight seven, eight nine whatever points.

1092
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 7: She might have.

1093
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 10: Made it without the need for a runoff, without the assassination,

1094
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 10: did recuperate a few. It's right towards the end, when

1095
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 10: it became clearer and clearer that this was not a

1096
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 10: you know that there were there was more and more

1097
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 10: evidence showing that it was a sort of deep state

1098
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 10: narco plot that had nothing to do with Goraismo. So

1099
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 10: I mean, yeah, we I think it significantly changed the

1100
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 10: results of the elections.

1101
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 7: We don't know what would have happened.

1102
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 10: It's very difficult to establish counter factual here, but certainly

1103
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 10: it's very very serious. If judicial authorities in Ecuador decided

1104
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 10: not to investigate this crime, or to delay the investigation

1105
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 10: of the crime in order to prejudice a candidacy, it

1106
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 10: would have been it was a massive judicial wrongdoing and

1107
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 10: you know, intervention in the in the electoral process, in

1108
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:54,640
Speaker 10: democracy essentially, And if the US supported this, if the

1109
00:59:54,640 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 10: State Department or it's US representatives in Ecuador supported this,

1110
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 10: it is extremely serious. And it's appears from the preliminary

1111
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 10: information that we have that the Prosecutor General, in these

1112
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 10: chats with a former member of Congress, Roniel Jaga, is

1113
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 10: saying that she was backed, supported, encouraged by US diplomats

1114
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 10: to do this.

1115
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 5: And yeah, that does that does indeed, that does indeed

1116
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 5: appear to be what the chats say. And as I've said,

1117
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 5: the Miami based forensic firm confirms that these chats are authentic.

1118
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 5: There was for for people who are confused about why

1119
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 5: that would be needed. Uh, there's this app called Confeede

1120
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 5: used down in South America, which you can you can

1121
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,920
Speaker 5: pay a little extra to get to get to get

1122
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 5: it so that as soon as you press the button,

1123
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 5: the message goes away.

1124
01:00:57,800 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 3: You read it and boom, it's gone.

1125
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,160
Speaker 5: So people in that said, there's no way he has

1126
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 5: these because they were communicating via confide. And as he

1127
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 5: showed me, he always carries two phones, so he would

1128
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:12,400
Speaker 5: film himself reading the message, and so he has the

1129
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,560
Speaker 5: film of all those messages, and so he sent he

1130
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 5: sent basically the metadata and the guts of all both

1131
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 5: of those phones to the Miami based firm to confirm

1132
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 5: that his story actually does line up that that is

1133
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:27,959
Speaker 5: what he did. Will continue to follow the story because,

1134
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 5: as you said, the US involvement here is extraordinarily you know,

1135
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 5: profound and crucial and the result has been basically a

1136
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 5: collapsing of the of the state and society of Ecuador.

1137
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 5: But gil Me look looking forward to have you on

1138
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 5: again and we'll continue to follow this.

1139
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 3: Thanks so much for joining us.

1140
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 7: Thank you very much.

1141
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 5: Pleasure all right, up up next, major surveillance reforms in Congress,

1142
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 5: voting today and tomorrow.

1143
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 3: Stick around for that.

1144
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 4: All right, Well, it sounds like the same old story

1145
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 4: over and over again, and that's because basically it is

1146
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 4: the House of Representatives is in a state of chaos

1147
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 4: on the press appress of getting rid of the Speaker

1148
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 4: of the House. Right now, once again little Rinson repeat

1149
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 4: going on, but this time it's over an inch in

1150
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 4: an issue that has real bipartisan support against Section seven

1151
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 4: oh two. This has become a flash point in the

1152
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 4: House Freedom Caucuses battle with Speaker Mike Johnson, who they

1153
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 4: accused rightfully of working with Democrats. Now, from Mike Johnson's perspective,

1154
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 4: he would say, who am I supposed to work with?

1155
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 4: I have a one vote margin here in the House

1156
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 4: of Representatives. My majority is slim one vote, so we

1157
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 4: kind of have to be at the table with Democrats.

1158
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:57,520
Speaker 4: But the Freedom Caucus believes rightfully again that he's made

1159
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 4: a lot of promises about not doing omnibus bill, about

1160
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 4: not funding the war Ukraine, and then seems to be

1161
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 4: moving closer to Democrats on the issue. So Marjorie Taylor

1162
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 4: Green actually released a letter she sent to Mike Johnson's basically,

1163
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 4: I think well characterized as an airing of grievances. Ryan,

1164
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 4: It sure seems like an airing of grievances. In fact,

1165
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 4: the Hill outright called it an airing of grievances against

1166
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:32,920
Speaker 4: Mike Johnson. Yes, yes, exactly happy and you can actually

1167
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 4: she tweeted out the full letter, which I'm sure Mike

1168
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 4: Johnson was very happy about. That's D two. It's a

1169
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 4: it's a long letter, and she goes through seven points

1170
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 4: essentially and walks through things that Mike Johnson says and

1171
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,800
Speaker 4: seems to be renegging on. She also talked to CNN

1172
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 4: about her plans just for this week, So there's a

1173
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 4: real question here if Mike Johnson survives the week. And

1174
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 4: again section seven zero two hugely important part of all

1175
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 4: all of this. But let's listen to Marjorie Taylor Green

1176
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,479
Speaker 4: in this interview with CNN talk about what happened after

1177
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 4: she released that letter and sent it to Mike Johnson.

1178
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,080
Speaker 9: So you sent this letter out to your college this morning.

1179
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 4: What kind of response have you got?

1180
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: Mostly support, It's been pretty incredible. Everyone's flying into town

1181
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: today this so.

1182
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:19,320
Speaker 4: I haven't spoken with.

1183
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 1: Everyone, but most of the members I've talked to agree

1184
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: with what I've said, they may not come out and

1185
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,800
Speaker 1: publicly say it. Many are relieved I've said it, and

1186
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: I've even heard within the ranks of leadership there's agreement there.

1187
01:04:31,880 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 7: So there's agreement for members of the readership with a.

1188
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: Letter with much of what I said.

1189
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 4: The letter. Ryan's laughing over it made me laugh. It's

1190
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 4: very It reminds me of Trump being like many people

1191
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,040
Speaker 4: are saying that I wrote the greatest letter.

1192
01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that.

1193
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 5: Meting with the guys, like all my friends are just

1194
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 5: out of the picture here having an amazing time.

1195
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 4: They're standing out a frame. You know, we're all having

1196
01:04:54,200 --> 01:04:54,560
Speaker 4: a blast.

1197
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 3: We're all going to overthrow the speaker.

1198
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 4: So Matt Gad's last night around eight pm on his

1199
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 4: podcast said, if Speaker Johnson is unwilling to fix Fiza,

1200
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 4: we are left wondering what he is indeed willing to fix. Now.

1201
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:10,120
Speaker 4: Marjorie Taylor Green is not a member of the House

1202
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 4: Freedom of Caucus anymore. She's sort of Freedom Caucus adjacent.

1203
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 4: They kicked her out. They're having all kinds of internal battles.

1204
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 4: You can go watch our long interview with Freedom Coccus

1205
01:05:17,120 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 4: German Bob Good that we did late last year.

1206
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:19,600
Speaker 3: Useful idiot.

1207
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, he called Marjor Taylor Green. He told us that

1208
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 4: Marjori Tailler Green was a useful idiot. So go ahead

1209
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 4: and watch that if you need a primer on all

1210
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 4: the Freedom Caucus dynamics at the moment. But they are

1211
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 4: all in alignment on this question of seven oh two,

1212
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,320
Speaker 4: which is becoming again. This is one of the things

1213
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 4: in the push and poll that Mike Johnson has with

1214
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 4: the Freedom Caucus type Republicans. Marjor Tayler Green has already

1215
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 4: filed that motion to vacate. That's what got rid of

1216
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 4: Kevin McCarthy. It's what Nancy Pelosi herself got rid of

1217
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 4: after she watched Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan use it

1218
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 4: to get rid of John Bayner. She said nope. But

1219
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,960
Speaker 4: then Kevin McCarthy made a promise to the Freedom Caucus

1220
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 4: to bring it back if they elected him speaker. They

1221
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 4: elected him speaker, then used the motion of Va Kate

1222
01:05:57,960 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 4: to get rid of him. Marjorie Taylor Green is now

1223
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,800
Speaker 4: doing the same thing to Mike Johnson, but hasn't actually

1224
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,400
Speaker 4: forced the vote on getting rid of Mike Johnson yet.

1225
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 4: She could do that basically at any moment. You know

1226
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 4: that that's not parliamentarily accurate, accurate, but it could basically

1227
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 4: happen any day if she has enough support to force

1228
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 4: that vote on getting rid of Mike Johnson. And if

1229
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 4: Mike Johnson does not come to the table on FISA reform,

1230
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 4: that's going to be a huge problem for him. That

1231
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 4: could lead to getting rid of the Speaker of the House. Now,

1232
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 4: Brian and I would love to see section seven h

1233
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 4: two reformed finally, because this is I mean, people who

1234
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 4: care about government surveillance going back years, this has been

1235
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 4: one of these central problems, one of the biggest sources

1236
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 4: of abuse. Trump tweeted recently true social recently recently that

1237
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 4: FISA was abused against him.

1238
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 5: That is, he tweeted last night, kill PIZA. It was

1239
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 5: illegally used against me and many others. They spied on

1240
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 5: my campaign.

1241
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:56,600
Speaker 3: DJT.

1242
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 4: It's funny to say someone who is like upset saying

1243
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 4: kill PISA because FISA came out of the Church Committee

1244
01:07:02,600 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 4: era to like protect people against government surveillance. But because

1245
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 4: the civil state is so powerful, FISA as this protective

1246
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 4: measure is abused.

1247
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 5: So people are trying to interpret well what does this

1248
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 5: mean about the details of this ongoing seven zero two fight,

1249
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,920
Speaker 5: And a lot of people are interpreting it as he's

1250
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 5: with the Matt Gates side, which I think is a

1251
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 5: totally fair reading of it.

1252
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 3: And so this is a live fight.

1253
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 5: So the House Rules Committee produced a rule last night

1254
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 5: that will be voted on on the floor later today

1255
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,520
Speaker 5: unless he pulls it, which is as he's done before.

1256
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,360
Speaker 3: Gates has said he's against the rule with a one

1257
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:40,720
Speaker 3: vote margin.

1258
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 5: If Democrats don't join, that means it could the rule

1259
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 5: could go down. There are basically three key things that

1260
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 5: they're fighting over in seven oh two. The main one,

1261
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 5: you could call the back door search loophole, which is

1262
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 5: seven oh two allows the NSA to basically spy on

1263
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:03,120
Speaker 5: any foreign person outside of American soil. So they then

1264
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:08,880
Speaker 5: use that authority to gobble up basically the entire world's communications.

1265
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,880
Speaker 5: Within the entire world's communications, you obviously have hundreds of

1266
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 5: millions of Americans communications.

1267
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:18,679
Speaker 3: So what the NSA says is, well.

1268
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 5: We legally acquired all of this data and all these communications,

1269
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 5: so now we can search it and we can search

1270
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:28,720
Speaker 5: it for Americans because we acquired it legally.

1271
01:08:28,479 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 4: Right, We don't need a warrant.

1272
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 5: Because we already we already had the legal authority to

1273
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,840
Speaker 5: pick this stuff up. It's like, if you get a

1274
01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 5: warrant to search a home and you find something that's

1275
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,400
Speaker 5: a different crime than the one you're looking for or

1276
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 5: a different person, you're allowed to use that.

1277
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,280
Speaker 3: So they're trying to kind of shoehorn it into that, but.

1278
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 4: That doesn't even make sense because that would be like

1279
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:49,960
Speaker 4: you would be like going into a different house.

1280
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 3: Yes, actually they didn't have.

1281
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 4: A warrant to go into a different house.

1282
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 3: None of it. None of it makes sense. And so

1283
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 3: but the courts have upheld it.

1284
01:08:56,400 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 5: And so what civil liberties advocates have been trying to

1285
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 5: do for years is to close this back door search loophole.

1286
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 5: And so that's a that's a key live fight right now.

1287
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:13,759
Speaker 5: The second one is the data broker loophole, which probably

1288
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 5: people are probably pretty familiar with, which is that the

1289
01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 5: US is not allowed, you know, to collect American data

1290
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,839
Speaker 5: without a warrant, you can't do it. And so aside

1291
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,439
Speaker 5: from the back door search loophole, what they have is

1292
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 5: a data broker loophole.

1293
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 3: Private companies are allowed to collect all this data.

1294
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 5: So they go out then and they buy up the

1295
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 5: data and then they search it that way. And this

1296
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:43,479
Speaker 5: this would this amendment would say you can't do that.

1297
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 5: It's called the Fourth Amendment Is Not for Sale Act,

1298
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 5: which passed unanimously through the Judiciary Committee with the support

1299
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:56,559
Speaker 5: of WHO Representative Mike Johnson at the time. Mike Johnson

1300
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 5: has now made a change in the rule last night

1301
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 5: that will make it impossible for there to be a

1302
01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:07,400
Speaker 5: vote on the bill that he the amendment that he

1303
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:09,760
Speaker 5: claims to support the bill, he claims the support the

1304
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:11,360
Speaker 5: Fourth Amendment is Not for Sale Act.

1305
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 3: And so Mike.

1306
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:18,839
Speaker 5: Johnson is currently screwing everybody on closing the data broker loophole.

1307
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 5: Then the third one is what Mike Johnson's done. He

1308
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 5: has turned over a lot of the bill to the

1309
01:10:25,880 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 5: Intelligence Committee. This is Republican Mike Turner and Democrat Jim Hymes,

1310
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 5: who were absolutely just in lockstep with the intelligence.

1311
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:36,480
Speaker 4: Community and the Biden administration.

1312
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 5: Like Mike, they were out a couple you may have

1313
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 5: seen this couple weeks or a couple of months ago.

1314
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:43,919
Speaker 3: They were out there saying they leaked this news.

1315
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 5: About how the Russians were using nukes in space and

1316
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 5: therefore we need to hurry up and give more spying

1317
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 5: authorities to the government, like it's been bad faith from

1318
01:10:54,840 --> 01:10:59,240
Speaker 5: start to finish. One of the provisions that they are

1319
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,799
Speaker 5: putting into this so called reform and that they're saying

1320
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:06,719
Speaker 5: is a narrowing would actually allow the US to spy

1321
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:11,360
Speaker 5: on any American business if it has some connection, some

1322
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 5: foreign connection. And so what civil liberties folks pointed out was,

1323
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:19,840
Speaker 5: so you can just walk into Starbucks then, and without

1324
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 5: a warrant, you can hit their router because there are

1325
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 5: Starbucks everywhere around the world. A lot of these kind

1326
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 5: of landlord firms own properties all over the world, so

1327
01:11:32,320 --> 01:11:35,680
Speaker 5: you could so that basically all these landlords you can

1328
01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 5: search them. And you can imagine why this would be

1329
01:11:38,920 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 5: valuable information to the FBI. Did this person go to

1330
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 5: this Starbucks? What about this person that lives in this building?

1331
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:45,839
Speaker 3: For months?

1332
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:49,400
Speaker 5: Mike Turner and Jim Himes said that people were just

1333
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 5: fear mongering and lying and that the bill wouldn't actually

1334
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 5: do this. So the new language that came out last

1335
01:11:54,200 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 5: night says that all of these authorities on businesses remain

1336
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 5: in this new bill, but there are carve outs for

1337
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:09,760
Speaker 5: food service and for landlords, which is an admission that

1338
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 5: the critics were correct. And what it also means then

1339
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 5: anything there are like four carveouts that they list in there.

1340
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:20,679
Speaker 5: Anything not mentioned there would then be subject to this

1341
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 5: warrantless spying, like whether it's a bowling alley or something. Hey,

1342
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:27,720
Speaker 5: they don't serve enough food, you know, and that the

1343
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:31,000
Speaker 5: pizza that's spinning underneath that land that doesn't count as food.

1344
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 3: That's cardboard. So therefore we as.

1345
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 5: The FBI NSA, we can go in and we can

1346
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 5: scoop up all of this data.

1347
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,240
Speaker 4: Here we laugh, but they will sink to know.

1348
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 5: Also, it's not food. It is cardboard. So you have

1349
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:45,799
Speaker 5: to be like, all right, fair enough, they're serving cardboard.

1350
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 5: I don't know, but what if you eat the cardboard?

1351
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:49,519
Speaker 3: Does that mean food? That's why you got to go

1352
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 3: That's why you got to go to the courts here.

1353
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,920
Speaker 5: So basically, what started out as reform could end up

1354
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 5: with an actual expansion of surveillance authority. And it's all

1355
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 5: up to Mike and who his whole career twenty eighteen,

1356
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 5: he voted for the toughest surveillance reform. His whole career,

1357
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 5: he has been a surveillance.

1358
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 3: You know critic. Yeah, he's been with the Freedom Caucus

1359
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:14,799
Speaker 3: on everything.

1360
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:15,120
Speaker 7: Yep.

1361
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,720
Speaker 5: Now that he's in power, the question is can he

1362
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 5: stand up to the intelligence community or not?

1363
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 4: And I think that goes back to the way Matt

1364
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 4: Gates put it. He said, if he won't, he's unwilling

1365
01:13:24,600 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 4: to fix FISA. We are left wondering what he is

1366
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,799
Speaker 4: indeed willing to fix. And that coming from Matt Gates,

1367
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 4: someone obviously who Kevin McCarthy just yesterday said I am

1368
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,000
Speaker 4: not Speaker of the House right now because one member

1369
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 4: didn't was upset about an ethics complaint about whether he

1370
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 4: had sex with the seventeen year old girl. And McCarthy said,

1371
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 4: I don't know if he did it, but that's what

1372
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:49,439
Speaker 4: this was all about. The point is, Matt Gates, that

1373
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,240
Speaker 4: was a hair trigger because the majority is so small

1374
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:54,080
Speaker 4: and the motion of a kate just requires one member.

1375
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 4: It's already been filed in this case. And so where

1376
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:59,439
Speaker 4: you have that sense of betrayal that Mike Johnson his friends,

1377
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 4: with many of those Freedom Caucus guys who could be

1378
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 4: easily persuaded by this argument. Granted, where else do they go?

1379
01:14:07,479 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 4: You know who else is going to be Speaker at

1380
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,960
Speaker 4: that point, and it doesn't serve their purposes. I think

1381
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 4: a lot of them ultimately aren't happy about how everything

1382
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:16,840
Speaker 4: has gone post McCarthy. And you know it's easy to

1383
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 4: get to laugh at that and be like, yeah, no kidding, well, yes,

1384
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 4: no kidding. So all that is to say, Mike Lee,

1385
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 4: here's a good tweet from Mike Lee. This is D five.

1386
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:32,759
Speaker 4: Mike Lee has this point that Ryan just made Speaker

1387
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 4: Johnson and Jeffries Minority Leader Jefferies. I came Jeffries voted

1388
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,400
Speaker 4: for a Five's a seven oh two weren't requirement back

1389
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:42,880
Speaker 4: in twenty eighteen, and then he said, why do the

1390
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 4: Intel Bros. Trademarket to tell House leadership what to do?

1391
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 4: This is also D six. This is a tweet from

1392
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,799
Speaker 4: an expert on seven oh two at the Brennan Center,

1393
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:54,640
Speaker 4: So from the left surveillance, anti surveillance experts from the

1394
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 4: left laying out exactly what Ryan just said. And I

1395
01:14:57,560 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 4: would encourage everyone to go check out this thread. It's

1396
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 4: called RISA. That's the version of the bill that has

1397
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:07,920
Speaker 4: this ridiculous permanent reauthorization basically embedded into it. Such a

1398
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,240
Speaker 4: familiar tactic to a lot of people ryan coming with

1399
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:17,040
Speaker 4: the label of reform and actually having a backdoor either

1400
01:15:17,080 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 4: reauthorization or a permanent codification of these types of these

1401
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 4: types of rules. Now, let's roll D four just so

1402
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:32,840
Speaker 4: people can get a taste of how doggedly the Biden

1403
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 4: administration House Republicans and Senate members and Senate Democrats that

1404
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 4: are so tied to Section seven o two because they

1405
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:45,639
Speaker 4: get these briefings, they go into the you know, they

1406
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:49,520
Speaker 4: go into the secure briefing center, get this terrifying information

1407
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 4: from the FBI, and then Russian space nukes. Russian space nukes,

1408
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:55,240
Speaker 4: They're coming for everyone.

1409
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 3: I don't even go to space anymore after hearing that.

1410
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's too dangerous. So anyway, let's listen to Jake Selban.

1411
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:06,559
Speaker 9: The administration strongly supports the bipartisan bill whose text is

1412
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 9: now with the Rules Committee, to reauthorize this Essential Intelligence

1413
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:14,320
Speaker 9: Authority and other files of provisions before they would expire

1414
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 9: on April nineteenth. If we lost seven oh two, we

1415
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 9: would lose vital insight into precisely the threats Americans expect

1416
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 9: us in government to identify, encounter terrorist threats to the homeland,

1417
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:31,839
Speaker 9: ventanyl supply chains, bringing deadly drugs into American communities, hostile governments,

1418
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 9: recruitment of spies in our midst transnational repression by authoritarian regimes,

1419
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 9: penetrations of our critical infrastructure adversaries, attempts to illicitly acquire

1420
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:47,639
Speaker 9: sensitive dual use and military commodities and technology, ransomware attacks

1421
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 9: against major American companies and nonprofits, Russian war crimes.

1422
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:52,559
Speaker 7: And more.

1423
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 4: My absolute favorite part of that is when it's actually

1424
01:16:56,120 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 4: not bad strategically messaging, when he's saying, we need seven

1425
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 4: or two to do what the people expect us to do.

1426
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:07,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, And Russian war crimes. They can't investigate Russian war

1427
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 5: crimes without this story. All that's a lie. All that's

1428
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:16,520
Speaker 5: a complete lie. They have the authority to do overseas searches.

1429
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 3: And they can even continue their investigations.

1430
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 5: They're doing this fear mongering over the authorities expiring on

1431
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 5: April nineteenth, But the authorities are like, everyone that's stamped

1432
01:17:25,479 --> 01:17:27,120
Speaker 5: is good for a year, so it's actually good for

1433
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,679
Speaker 5: well into twenty twenty five. So all of it is lying,

1434
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 5: All of it is fear mongering. What should what do

1435
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 5: you think? What should people root for? At this point,

1436
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:38,519
Speaker 5: I'd say voting the rule down later today the House

1437
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:42,559
Speaker 5: floor and forcing Mike Johnson to at least allow a

1438
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 5: vote on the fourth Amendment is not for sale. At

1439
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:47,639
Speaker 5: least allow vote.

1440
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:50,479
Speaker 3: Look. Oh oh, and there's one other thing that they've

1441
01:17:50,520 --> 01:17:51,120
Speaker 3: done here.

1442
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 5: They and Mike Turner didn't appear to realize this, and

1443
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 5: the Rules Committee hearing last night, they put two provisions

1444
01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:03,440
Speaker 5: in that specifically grant new protections for members of Congress

1445
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,800
Speaker 5: when it comes to surveillance that do not apply to

1446
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:07,599
Speaker 5: anybody else.

1447
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:09,120
Speaker 3: So it's it's the.

1448
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 4: Can't foil them, can't surveil them.

1449
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 5: They get amazing healthcare and a cool pension, and so

1450
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 5: that one of it would be one of them is

1451
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 5: like they get noticed, you know, they get noticed, and

1452
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 5: you need different authorities. Like basically it sets members of

1453
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:30,439
Speaker 5: Congress apart in a way that they hadn't been before.

1454
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 3: It has been used against them, and it comes from Yes.

1455
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:36,840
Speaker 5: A member of Congress was spied on like a year

1456
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 5: ago or two years ago or so. It was a

1457
01:18:40,000 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 5: kind of rank and file Republican who had been really

1458
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 5: supportive of like five authorities.

1459
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 3: Right, I forget, I forget who exactly it was.

1460
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:50,880
Speaker 5: But as a result of that, they're like Okay, fine,

1461
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:55,479
Speaker 5: we'll we'll stop surveilling members of Congress without going through

1462
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:59,360
Speaker 5: these these hoops, rather than what you would hope Congress

1463
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 5: would demand is actual reform for all American citizens.

1464
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:08,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it's just so ridiculous, and it's a

1465
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:10,960
Speaker 4: great example of why so many people are upset with

1466
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:14,240
Speaker 4: Mike Johnson, but also how the kind of DC blob

1467
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 4: feels the public. Time and again, it's plainly unconstitutional. If

1468
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 4: they want it to be constitutional, they should make that

1469
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 4: case as to why we should amend the Constitution to

1470
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:25,840
Speaker 4: allow them to do that.

1471
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:29,440
Speaker 3: And Marjorie Taylor Green's list of grievances was mostly.

1472
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:35,600
Speaker 5: Abortion related, Green New Deal, climate change trands, stuff like.

1473
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:37,400
Speaker 3: It was a four page list.

1474
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:42,080
Speaker 5: Hopefully people like Gates can channel her into a seven

1475
01:19:42,080 --> 01:19:42,799
Speaker 5: oh two direction.

1476
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:46,679
Speaker 4: Oh, they absolutely are, Yeah, I mean they're absolutely yeah.

1477
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:47,840
Speaker 4: Margor Tayler Green's.

1478
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 3: Got if you got this club, you might as well

1479
01:19:49,080 --> 01:19:50,280
Speaker 3: wield it for something useful.

1480
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:50,479
Speaker 11: Well.

1481
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it comes down to again, if you're not

1482
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 4: all of those grievances from Marjorie Taylor Green, it was

1483
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:59,400
Speaker 4: basically about Mike Johnson saying all of these things before

1484
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:03,559
Speaker 4: he became s talking a really big game about what's

1485
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:06,840
Speaker 4: wrong with Republican leadership in DC, you know, voting by

1486
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:10,120
Speaker 4: or ruling by omnibus. That's packed with all of these

1487
01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 4: handouts to the left special interests via nonprofit funding and

1488
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:18,880
Speaker 4: grants and all of that. But what a lot of

1489
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 4: people see, and we just talked about this, but it's

1490
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 4: worth emphasizing what a lot of people see in that

1491
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 4: is this is the Mike Johnson like, this is the

1492
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:29,720
Speaker 4: central This is one that we all agree on. You've

1493
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,200
Speaker 4: agreed with us on this for years seven oh two.

1494
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:35,840
Speaker 4: This was used as a weapon against Donald Trump politically.

1495
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:38,639
Speaker 4: It is one of the most glaring and egregious things.

1496
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 4: And if you're flipping on this, we can't trust you

1497
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 4: on anything else. And Matt Gates basically came out and

1498
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 4: said that last night.

1499
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:45,799
Speaker 3: So that's that's.

1500
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,200
Speaker 4: Totally on the table in these conversations about the motion

1501
01:20:48,280 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 4: of vacate, no question about it. So stay tuned. We'll

1502
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 4: see what happens by the end of the week. I

1503
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:55,479
Speaker 4: think Johnson, I don't think they have anywhere to go.

1504
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 4: They learned that after McCarthy, so I don't think they'll

1505
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,360
Speaker 4: they'll vacate Johnson. But that's totally up in the air

1506
01:21:02,479 --> 01:21:03,000
Speaker 4: could happen.

1507
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:05,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, call your member of Congress, tell them not to

1508
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:06,200
Speaker 3: do this.

1509
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:07,320
Speaker 4: Get rid of seven oh two.

1510
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:10,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Form seven oh two whatever.

1511
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 4: Get rid of.

1512
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:11,960
Speaker 3: What they want to do is a stupid rule.

1513
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:17,760
Speaker 4: Down, Yes, vote the rule down. All right. Let's talk

1514
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:22,760
Speaker 4: about Norfolk Southern, which has Yesterday it was announced that

1515
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 4: Norfolk Southern reached what could be the largest settlement in

1516
01:21:27,680 --> 01:21:31,160
Speaker 4: the history of railroads in the United States over the

1517
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 4: train derailment in East Palestine. We can go put the

1518
01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 4: first element up on the screen here, six hundred million

1519
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 4: dollars to residents and businesses in East Palestine, Ohio and

1520
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:47,080
Speaker 4: some I think it's like within a ten mile radius,

1521
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:49,880
Speaker 4: something to that extent. So on Tuesday, the lead attorneys

1522
01:21:50,200 --> 01:21:53,439
Speaker 4: representing the victims of Norfolk Southern announced the Atlanta based

1523
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 4: company had agreed in principle to a six hundred million

1524
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:59,840
Speaker 4: dollar class action lawsuit settlement. It does, though still in

1525
01:21:59,880 --> 01:22:02,519
Speaker 4: the to be approved by a US District Court judge

1526
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:08,400
Speaker 4: in Youngstown. I'm reading now from the Canton repository. Now,

1527
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 4: based on our research and settlements are often confidential, but

1528
01:22:11,439 --> 01:22:13,960
Speaker 4: this looks significantly larger than any other derailment settlement that

1529
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 4: we're aware of in the United States, said Jane Conroy

1530
01:22:17,320 --> 01:22:20,640
Speaker 4: of Simons Tanley Conroy, one of the lead attorneys, in

1531
01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:25,000
Speaker 4: a zoom interview with the Canton Repository yesterday. Although Ryan,

1532
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 4: I want to put this next element up on the

1533
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 4: screen as well. This is actually a tweet reacting to

1534
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 4: the settlement by Aaron Brockovich, who is quoting one of

1535
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 4: Julia Roberts's big lines, obviously based on her own life

1536
01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:42,240
Speaker 4: in the movie. Aaron Brockovich quote, before you come back

1537
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:44,320
Speaker 4: here with another lay mass offer, I want you to

1538
01:22:44,360 --> 01:22:47,000
Speaker 4: think real hard about what your spine is worth, mister Walker,

1539
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,080
Speaker 4: or what you might expect someone to pay you for

1540
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 4: your uterism, miss Stanchez. And then Aaron Brockovich added, the

1541
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 4: money never makes them whole. That's a I think a

1542
01:22:57,200 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 4: really apt way to put it. Looking at the sixth

1543
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,680
Speaker 4: dread million dollars settlement class action lawsuit that is going

1544
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,519
Speaker 4: to be spread across many many people in East Palestine,

1545
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:08,559
Speaker 4: many many businesses in East Palestine, and the money never

1546
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 4: could make you whole.

1547
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:15,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, And there's still open questions about uh criminal guilt

1548
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:18,559
Speaker 5: here like there have there there have not been prosecutions yet.

1549
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:22,200
Speaker 5: There there are important questions that investigators need to be

1550
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:26,000
Speaker 5: asking about. Uh, you know, in particular, you know, what

1551
01:23:26,040 --> 01:23:29,600
Speaker 5: did the company know when they did the controlled demolition?

1552
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,680
Speaker 3: Did how was it was that actually necessary? Did what

1553
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:36,519
Speaker 3: information did they have?

1554
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 7: Uh?

1555
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:38,559
Speaker 3: Did they did?

1556
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:43,800
Speaker 5: They did they willingly, you know, create an environmental catastrophe

1557
01:23:44,320 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 5: in order to just get the trains moving a little

1558
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:47,040
Speaker 5: bit quicker.

1559
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:47,799
Speaker 3: Uh.

1560
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:50,200
Speaker 5: You know they they have claimed that they really had

1561
01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 5: no choice, but there the evidence does not seem to

1562
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:57,280
Speaker 5: be lining up in that direction. And you know, this

1563
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 5: does not admit any any guilt. So you know, hopefully,

1564
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 5: you know, prosecutors are still looking at this, you know,

1565
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,640
Speaker 5: if you know, if if history.

1566
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 3: Is any guide, they're not.

1567
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 5: But you know, you've got jd Vance, You've got Shared Brown,

1568
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:16,040
Speaker 5: You've got you know, politicians from both parties who continue

1569
01:24:16,080 --> 01:24:21,360
Speaker 5: to put pressure on Norfolk Southern Yet the jade Vans

1570
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 5: and Shared Brown's real safety reform. You know, we haven't

1571
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:30,160
Speaker 5: seen that, you know, we've we've seen that get bottled up.

1572
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:34,640
Speaker 5: So you know, they it's good that people are going

1573
01:24:34,680 --> 01:24:39,240
Speaker 5: to get some compensation, but systemically it looks like so

1574
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:41,880
Speaker 5: far the culprits are getting away with it.

1575
01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a really important point that bill, the JD

1576
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 4: Vance Bill, has gone basically nowhere in Congress because of

1577
01:24:47,439 --> 01:24:50,400
Speaker 4: opposition to people who you take money from the industry,

1578
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:53,920
Speaker 4: are close with the industry. That's a real uphill battle. Now.

1579
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:57,880
Speaker 4: As the attorney said, Norfolk Southern actually settled quicker than

1580
01:24:58,000 --> 01:24:59,960
Speaker 4: what was expected and right, and you made this quick

1581
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 4: yeah yeah, and looks like victims could potentially get money

1582
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 4: by the end of the year, which is I mean,

1583
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 4: that is fast as these things go. But the other

1584
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:12,720
Speaker 4: important point that you made, Ran is that they're not

1585
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:17,160
Speaker 4: admitting any guilt, so no liability, no fault admitted in

1586
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:20,760
Speaker 4: this settlement. But they're also still facing a lawsuit that

1587
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 4: was filed by the Ohio Attorney General for environmental damages

1588
01:25:24,439 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 4: that resulted after the derailment, and Yost has said Dave

1589
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 4: Yos the Age has said he wouldn't settle the suit

1590
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:34,520
Speaker 4: quote without a detailed understanding of what happened, who is responsible,

1591
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 4: and how we avoid other communities like East Palestine from

1592
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:40,679
Speaker 4: being victims to this type of incident. Also worth noting,

1593
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:43,439
Speaker 4: as The New York Times does, that the National Transportation Safety

1594
01:25:43,479 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 4: Board is continuing to investigate the incident, hasn't released its

1595
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:53,120
Speaker 4: own report into what happened. So there's plenty more in

1596
01:25:53,240 --> 01:25:57,599
Speaker 4: all of this to come for getting to the bottom

1597
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 4: of actually what happened. Now a little bit more the

1598
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:02,760
Speaker 4: details of the settlement. The lawyer said that it would

1599
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:05,439
Speaker 4: provide payment to residents and businesses in East Palestine and

1600
01:26:05,479 --> 01:26:08,799
Speaker 4: also the affected surrounding communities within a twenty mile radius,

1601
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 4: pending the court approval that we mentioned earlier. Now East

1602
01:26:12,360 --> 01:26:16,160
Speaker 4: Palatine alone is almost five thousand people and they would

1603
01:26:16,240 --> 01:26:20,080
Speaker 4: all be eligible for payment from the settlement. Then it

1604
01:26:20,120 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 4: also has a voluntary program that would compensate individuals within

1605
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 4: a ten mile radius for past, present, and future personal

1606
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:31,400
Speaker 4: injuries that result from chemical exposure at Norfolk. Southern highlighted

1607
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:35,759
Speaker 4: their contributions to the community, which again like they've already

1608
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 4: poured more than one hundred million dollars into different infrastructure.

1609
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,400
Speaker 4: You know they've done community They say they've done two

1610
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,120
Speaker 4: million dollars for community directive projects, four point three million

1611
01:26:46,200 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 4: to upgrades drinking water infrastructure, five hundred thousand dollars for

1612
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 4: an economic development grant, and that huge one hundred and

1613
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:57,679
Speaker 4: four million for community assistance to communities around East Palestine

1614
01:26:57,680 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 4: including Ohio and Pennsylvania twenty five million dollars included in

1615
01:27:01,320 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 4: that for regional safety training improvements to their city park,

1616
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:08,320
Speaker 4: direct payments to residents twenty one million for that, and

1617
01:27:08,360 --> 01:27:11,920
Speaker 4: then nine million dollars to local first responders. So just

1618
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,400
Speaker 4: the cost of doing business, I guess for Norfolk Southern

1619
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 4: until Congress acts and steps in.

1620
01:27:16,760 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 5: Here, right, it's the it's the right.

1621
01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:22,800
Speaker 4: They seven hundred million dollars.

1622
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 5: Using the money that they're saving by you know, reducing

1623
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 5: the number of workers that they pay and keeping their

1624
01:27:29,439 --> 01:27:29,880
Speaker 5: pay low.

1625
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:32,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, seven hundred million dollar accidents so far, you can

1626
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 4: you can put a price tag on it.

1627
01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:33,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1628
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:37,880
Speaker 4: Indeed, until Congress does anything, this is basically what you're

1629
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:41,680
Speaker 4: stuck with. But I thought that Aaron Brockovich quote was poignant.

1630
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:44,719
Speaker 4: The money never makes anyone hole these some people's homes,

1631
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:50,759
Speaker 4: it's their community. It's just unbelievable, but believable that Norfolk

1632
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:53,840
Speaker 4: Southern settled so quickly, given I think what we will

1633
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:59,120
Speaker 4: continue to find out about their liability. Let's move on

1634
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 4: to this extremely buzzy viral story that The Free Press

1635
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:06,800
Speaker 4: published yesterday from a current, at least as of right now,

1636
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:11,559
Speaker 4: employee of National Public Radio. Right at least as of

1637
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:16,000
Speaker 4: the time the op ed was published. Is Ury Berliner,

1638
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:18,800
Speaker 4: who has worked for NPR for more than twenty five years.

1639
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:20,280
Speaker 4: For more than twenty years, I think he said twenty

1640
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 4: five years, penned an article sort of blowing the whistle

1641
01:28:23,479 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 4: on the internal ideological bias at NPR, which again people

1642
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:32,040
Speaker 4: will laugh at because it seems so obvious. But he

1643
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 4: does have kind of an interesting quote when he writes

1644
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 4: about Actually he acknowledges that in this article for the

1645
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:40,920
Speaker 4: Free Press, we can put the first element up on

1646
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:43,679
Speaker 4: the screen that's a picture of him, and the headline

1647
01:28:43,720 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 4: is I've bet at an NPR for twenty five years.

1648
01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:49,320
Speaker 4: Here's how we lost America's trust. He does cite in

1649
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:54,000
Speaker 4: fact polling that shows NPR it was celebrated internally by NPR.

1650
01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 4: This was one of my favorite parts of his article.

1651
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:57,400
Speaker 3: But the poll.

1652
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:00,559
Speaker 4: Let me just read from him. He says, if ever,

1653
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 4: our audience insights team sent an email proudly announcing that

1654
01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 4: we had a higher trustworthy score, that's a CNN or

1655
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:07,679
Speaker 4: the New York Times. But the research from the Harris

1656
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:10,679
Speaker 4: poll is hardly reassuring. It found that three and ten

1657
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:14,360
Speaker 4: audience members familiar with NPR said, they associate MPR with

1658
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:20,000
Speaker 4: the characteristic quote trustworthy. That's what NPR was internally celebrating,

1659
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:22,200
Speaker 4: because it was higher than the trustworthiness of The New

1660
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:24,960
Speaker 4: York at times. But he also does write into that

1661
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:28,240
Speaker 4: question of like NPR sort of a punchline in conservative circles, like,

1662
01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 4: of course, you know, the NPR tote bag crowd is

1663
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:33,280
Speaker 4: something that everybody makes a joke about. Of course NPR

1664
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:36,000
Speaker 4: is liberal, he says. If you are conservative, you will

1665
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 4: read this and say, duh. It's always been this way,

1666
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:41,320
Speaker 4: he writes, but it hasn't. Back in twenty eleven, although

1667
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:43,479
Speaker 4: NPR's audience tilted a bit to the left, it still

1668
01:29:43,479 --> 01:29:46,240
Speaker 4: bore a resemblance to America at large, twenty six percent

1669
01:29:46,240 --> 01:29:49,640
Speaker 4: of listeners described themselves as conservative, twenty three percent as

1670
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:52,240
Speaker 4: middle of the road, and thirty seven percent as liberal.

1671
01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 4: By twenty twenty three, the picture was completely different. Only

1672
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:59,040
Speaker 4: eleven percent describe themselves as very or somewhat conservative, twenty

1673
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 4: one percent as middle of the road, and sixty seven

1674
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:03,960
Speaker 4: percent of listeners said they were very or somewhat liberal.

1675
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:07,360
Speaker 4: We weren't just losing conservatives, we were also losing moderates

1676
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:12,080
Speaker 4: and traditional liberals. He goes on to complain about coverage

1677
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 4: of the pandemic of the lab leak of the Hunter

1678
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 4: Biden laptop, of Russiagate. He talks about how often NPR

1679
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:21,439
Speaker 4: would interview Adam Shift but then Shift, but then how

1680
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:25,799
Speaker 4: quickly Russiagate faded from NPR's coverage after the Muller report

1681
01:30:25,880 --> 01:30:29,040
Speaker 4: came out with basically no Maya Kalpa. He also has

1682
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 4: a really interesting section about how NPR's union has pushed

1683
01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 4: for affinity groups, as he calls them to allow or

1684
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:42,439
Speaker 4: to require NPR management to tackle this is his word

1685
01:30:42,520 --> 01:30:47,879
Speaker 4: DEI issues in the coverage, and that's a particularly interesting

1686
01:30:47,880 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 4: one where you bring labor into this question of ideological

1687
01:30:51,040 --> 01:30:53,080
Speaker 4: bents and newsrooms. I don't know what you make of that, Ryan,

1688
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:54,559
Speaker 4: and I don't know what you make of this whole article.

1689
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:55,080
Speaker 4: I'm curious.

1690
01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:58,639
Speaker 3: It is an interesting phenomenon in that.

1691
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,720
Speaker 5: Know, the traditional role of unions has been to fight

1692
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:10,000
Speaker 5: for better job protections, wages, benefits, general workplace issues, but

1693
01:31:10,120 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 5: to be kind of ideological, ideologically and politically agnostic in newsrooms.

1694
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:19,040
Speaker 5: The last five six years you have seen a trend

1695
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:24,679
Speaker 5: where staff unions have argued much more around editorial content,

1696
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 5: which is kind of which is an interesting development and

1697
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:32,519
Speaker 5: an interesting way to think about unions. He also said

1698
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:35,839
Speaker 5: that he felt like NPR was kind of too too

1699
01:31:35,880 --> 01:31:38,800
Speaker 5: supportive of the Palestinian cause.

1700
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:40,880
Speaker 4: Oh you found a tweet, actually an interesting tweet for you.

1701
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, so in a couple Actually, z squirrel flagged a

1702
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:46,759
Speaker 5: couple of these that Twitter account.

1703
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:49,920
Speaker 3: So one from October twenty twenty.

1704
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 5: Three, it's about a Barack Revied reported that there was

1705
01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:57,479
Speaker 5: going to be an event in New York called the

1706
01:31:57,600 --> 01:32:05,760
Speaker 5: Antifada fund Raver and so somebody else, somebody.

1707
01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 3: Else sounds like just such a great time.

1708
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:14,479
Speaker 5: So somebody else then posted, uh, one hopes at one

1709
01:32:14,520 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 5: hopes a lot of FBI and NYPD types will be

1710
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:22,120
Speaker 5: in attendance, also press taking pictures and getting names. Opportunities

1711
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:25,840
Speaker 5: like this are hard to come by. Yuri Berliner retweeted that,

1712
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 5: so no, which is you know, you can be like, look,

1713
01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:34,439
Speaker 5: I don't think there should be an anti fat A fundraiver,

1714
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:37,120
Speaker 5: Like that's that's one thing. To say that there ought

1715
01:32:37,160 --> 01:32:40,760
Speaker 5: to be FBI and NYPD surveillance of people who are

1716
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:46,840
Speaker 5: outside of it is is in contradiction with Berliner's claim

1717
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 5: that he's like anti censorship and like, you know, pro

1718
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:53,080
Speaker 5: free speech, and it's published in a what does she

1719
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 5: call her news outlet, free press?

1720
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:56,799
Speaker 4: They Wise newsletter.

1721
01:32:56,880 --> 01:32:59,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, but Barry Wise would have you know eagerly.

1722
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 5: You know, that's exact same position.

1723
01:33:02,200 --> 01:33:03,520
Speaker 3: In fact, I mean it speaks.

1724
01:33:03,240 --> 01:33:06,439
Speaker 4: To a broader problem with like the Bill Ackman sort

1725
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:10,720
Speaker 4: of contingency on the Center that has been sort of

1726
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:14,800
Speaker 4: very critical of Harvard, and I think rightfully highlighting a

1727
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:18,720
Speaker 4: double standard. But some of those same people are in

1728
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 4: favor of restrictions or will have inflated definitions of anti

1729
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:27,240
Speaker 4: Semitism that will broadly sweep speech into the category of

1730
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:31,080
Speaker 4: hate I think in ways that are objectionable. When, for example,

1731
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 4: talking about as he does here, pro trans advocacy groups

1732
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:35,880
Speaker 4: briefed their newsroom and asked them not to use the

1733
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 4: term biological sex. MPR brought them in as part of

1734
01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:44,639
Speaker 4: this DEI push that is broadly swept into this category

1735
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 4: of hate speech sometimes and that's wrong, but it's not consistent.

1736
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I do think newsrooms should not newsrooms, I think

1737
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,160
Speaker 5: should make their own judgments and should not be taking

1738
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:57,519
Speaker 5: guidance from advocacy groups one way or another. On you know,

1739
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 5: it's fine to like, obviously you should talk to everybody.

1740
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:02,240
Speaker 5: That's what reporters do. They go up and talk to people.

1741
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:06,320
Speaker 5: But I and I actually think so. One of the

1742
01:34:06,320 --> 01:34:09,360
Speaker 5: things he complains about was that this database that was

1743
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:12,679
Speaker 5: listing the kind of rais and gender of the guests

1744
01:34:13,080 --> 01:34:18,400
Speaker 5: that were on air, And I actually kind of disagree

1745
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:22,040
Speaker 5: with him on that one, because if you let you know,

1746
01:34:22,080 --> 01:34:27,000
Speaker 5: if you are just blindly booking guests, and let's say

1747
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:29,479
Speaker 5: you're a white guy and most of your friends are

1748
01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:33,320
Speaker 5: white guys, like you're going to end up not through

1749
01:34:33,360 --> 01:34:36,280
Speaker 5: any kind of conscious bias, you're just gonna be booking

1750
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:41,479
Speaker 5: endless white guys. And that is a disservice from my perspective,

1751
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:45,280
Speaker 5: to your audience, because you're you're cutting out a lot

1752
01:34:45,280 --> 01:34:48,479
Speaker 5: of interesting perspective by keeping this really tight circle.

1753
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:50,639
Speaker 4: And so what even accidentally.

1754
01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:53,040
Speaker 5: Actually right, Yeah, And so what a database does is

1755
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:56,080
Speaker 5: after a couple of months, you look at it and

1756
01:34:56,120 --> 01:35:00,920
Speaker 5: you're like, oh, we've had like thirty guests and like

1757
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:02,439
Speaker 5: twenty eight of them are white guys.

1758
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:04,120
Speaker 3: Two of them were white women.

1759
01:35:04,800 --> 01:35:08,799
Speaker 5: Like, maybe we need to make a more conscious effort

1760
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:11,120
Speaker 5: to not just call the people that we know.

1761
01:35:11,360 --> 01:35:14,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's if that's what's happening, as opposed

1762
01:35:14,880 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 4: to like if there are internal quota systems, because the.

1763
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:23,759
Speaker 3: Way I'm interpreting the quota system should be come.

1764
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 4: On the quota session.

1765
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:26,559
Speaker 3: Yet believe h Look, come on.

1766
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:28,680
Speaker 4: I think it's yeah. I feel like you can make

1767
01:35:28,720 --> 01:35:35,320
Speaker 4: that internal effort to include genuinely diverse voices, whether that's race, sex, ideology,

1768
01:35:35,880 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 4: which I.

1769
01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:38,280
Speaker 3: Know NPR not doing so great on that.

1770
01:35:38,600 --> 01:35:41,759
Speaker 4: Yet not doing so great on that all the time. Although,

1771
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:43,439
Speaker 4: like I said, I was listening to Nancy Master an

1772
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:45,519
Speaker 4: interesting interview with them on the arizon A Supreme Court

1773
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:48,600
Speaker 4: thing just yesterday, so I think they still try. But

1774
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 4: whether they're actually capable of that is a different question.

1775
01:35:52,360 --> 01:35:55,240
Speaker 4: Because this is one of the biggest problems in media

1776
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:59,799
Speaker 4: right now, is the idea that people who for example,

1777
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:04,200
Speaker 4: support Donald Trump. Nancy Mace huge Donald Trump supporter, but

1778
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 4: she's a little different because she has this different perspective

1779
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 4: on abortion, and that's what they were interviewing her about.

1780
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 4: But people who support Donald Trump, for example, I don't

1781
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:15,880
Speaker 4: know if you were still at HuffPo when they have

1782
01:36:16,080 --> 01:36:18,920
Speaker 4: post when they did the asterisk thing with Donald Trump,

1783
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:23,360
Speaker 4: donald Trump as a racist bigot. So if you extend

1784
01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:29,439
Speaker 4: that to Donald Trump supporters, that means they're necessarily supporting racism, sexism, bigotry, etc.

1785
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:31,840
Speaker 4: Which is not the case for why a lot of

1786
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 4: people vote for Donald Trump. If you have that sort

1787
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:38,000
Speaker 4: of categorization and say this isn't ideological, it's like joy

1788
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 4: Reads saying we want more Republicans on our network. We

1789
01:36:40,960 --> 01:36:44,439
Speaker 4: want more List Cheney, more Adam Kinsinger on our network,

1790
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:49,400
Speaker 4: but not Ronald McDaniel. That's probably the biggest problem with

1791
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:54,160
Speaker 4: like ideological diversity is that it's not even seen as

1792
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:58,599
Speaker 4: a lack of ideological diversity in some newsrooms because they

1793
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:04,400
Speaker 4: categorize people who support roughly half of the country who

1794
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:06,640
Speaker 4: voted in twenty twenty voted for Donald Trump. So if

1795
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:10,120
Speaker 4: you categorize them as supporters of perpetuators of racism, sexism,

1796
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 4: migatry in that sort of direct sense, then you're not

1797
01:37:13,479 --> 01:37:16,320
Speaker 4: going to think it makes sense to interview them. I'm

1798
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:18,880
Speaker 4: not going to interview you know, strom Thurman on this

1799
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,439
Speaker 4: this You know that would have been a mistake back then.

1800
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:24,000
Speaker 4: It's a mistake now we can't repeat it.

1801
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:27,960
Speaker 5: It does feel like NPR in recent years has taken

1802
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:31,960
Speaker 5: on a more kind of democratic feel activist. Yeah, it's

1803
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:34,200
Speaker 5: like they really do feel like a lot of the

1804
01:37:34,320 --> 01:37:38,519
Speaker 5: assumptions that the standard Democrat makes about the world are

1805
01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:42,600
Speaker 5: the assumptions that the NPR is also making about the world.

1806
01:37:43,120 --> 01:37:46,800
Speaker 5: And the Russia Gate situation, I think is a good

1807
01:37:46,800 --> 01:37:50,280
Speaker 5: example of that and the way that they handled Trump

1808
01:37:50,280 --> 01:37:50,599
Speaker 5: as well.

1809
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:52,360
Speaker 3: Like I was listening to an interview with Scott.

1810
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:55,840
Speaker 5: Walker a couple of months ago, and basically every single

1811
01:37:55,880 --> 01:37:59,479
Speaker 5: question they asked Scott Walker was about January sixth, then

1812
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 5: like was election stolen?

1813
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:01,840
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1814
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:05,200
Speaker 5: It's like all right, Like and come on in PR,

1815
01:38:05,400 --> 01:38:07,639
Speaker 5: is there anything else you can Is there anything else

1816
01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 5: you want.

1817
01:38:07,880 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 3: To talk about here?

1818
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:14,000
Speaker 5: Like it's twenty twenty four, now move, let's you've got

1819
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:16,360
Speaker 5: Scott Walker, like ask him some other questions like what

1820
01:38:17,240 --> 01:38:18,080
Speaker 5: labor anything?

1821
01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:20,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, there's a lot that could be asked.

1822
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:22,720
Speaker 5: And then like why is Then then they'll say why

1823
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:23,920
Speaker 5: is Donald Trump obsessed with this?

1824
01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:28,040
Speaker 3: It's like, yes, you're the one that stops.

1825
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:31,400
Speaker 4: Talking about one hundred percent? And you know, I was

1826
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:34,200
Speaker 4: listening to NPR. I just looked this up and was

1827
01:38:34,240 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 4: obviously on March twenty first, because that's the date the

1828
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:39,879
Speaker 4: story was published. But I was listening to a segment

1829
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:42,639
Speaker 4: on the Murphy versus Missouri case, and they were talking

1830
01:38:42,720 --> 01:38:46,439
Speaker 4: to Barbara McQuade, who's former US attorney for Eastern District Michigan.

1831
01:38:46,479 --> 01:38:48,439
Speaker 4: If you watch MSNBC, you have seen her all of

1832
01:38:48,520 --> 01:38:52,360
Speaker 4: the time, and the conversation it was on point was

1833
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 4: out rageous on free speech and the press and the

1834
01:38:58,040 --> 01:39:01,879
Speaker 4: First Amendment. It was like to hear journalist talking about

1835
01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:06,000
Speaker 4: that case with a former prosecutor in the way that

1836
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:09,760
Speaker 4: they were, which is basically terrifying, but basically saying, like

1837
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:12,639
Speaker 4: the First Amendment, you know, the government has to police

1838
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:15,760
Speaker 4: dangerous speech, et cetera. Just like operating on that presumption

1839
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:19,400
Speaker 4: and acting as though anybody who questioned that was either

1840
01:39:19,439 --> 01:39:22,240
Speaker 4: a victim of right wing disinformation, which has been a

1841
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:25,719
Speaker 4: charge that Matt Taibi has been hit with and Glenn

1842
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 4: Greenwald has been hit with. I mean, it's just so

1843
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:31,479
Speaker 4: disturbing to see that baked into the presumption again from

1844
01:39:32,040 --> 01:39:35,719
Speaker 4: like a news outlet that's not supposed to be super

1845
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:38,040
Speaker 4: far to the left. It's funded by taxpayers to some extent,

1846
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:43,639
Speaker 4: like it's National Public Radio. It's just unfortunate. And part

1847
01:39:43,640 --> 01:39:44,800
Speaker 4: of the reason I want to do this segment is

1848
01:39:44,840 --> 01:39:46,200
Speaker 4: that I feel like a lot of people have a

1849
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:48,519
Speaker 4: lot of nostalgia for NPR, like they grew up listening

1850
01:39:48,520 --> 01:39:55,920
Speaker 4: to NPR, even across socioeconomic divides. It's just in the

1851
01:39:55,960 --> 01:40:00,439
Speaker 4: past it was kind of a consensus outlet, like a

1852
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:01,960
Speaker 4: lot of people listen to it. They might have disagreed

1853
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:05,200
Speaker 4: with it. Conservatives definitely disagreed with it, but it's convenience

1854
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:05,680
Speaker 4: listen to.

1855
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:10,000
Speaker 5: And there's each Each local station is so important because

1856
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 5: you know, I think a city is really enriched by

1857
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:17,320
Speaker 5: having a local public radio station that then feeds up

1858
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:20,719
Speaker 5: to the national one. And I think we are enriched

1859
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:24,200
Speaker 5: as a nation as as like a single people to have,

1860
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:27,240
Speaker 5: you know, one place that everybody kind of trusts.

1861
01:40:27,439 --> 01:40:30,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, as you're sitting in traffic frustrated.

1862
01:40:30,520 --> 01:40:34,760
Speaker 4: Yes, I completely agree with that. Before we wrap the

1863
01:40:34,760 --> 01:40:36,800
Speaker 4: show today, RN, I just want to say that seven

1864
01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:39,800
Speaker 4: hundred million dollars from Norfolk Southern I just quickly looked

1865
01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:44,360
Speaker 4: it up. They had almost two billion in stock buybacks

1866
01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:48,120
Speaker 4: in twenty three, so seven hundred million dollars basically six

1867
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:50,760
Speaker 4: hundred million in the settlement more than one hundred million

1868
01:40:50,840 --> 01:40:56,160
Speaker 4: so far in voluntary payments to East Palestine for infrastructure

1869
01:40:56,320 --> 01:40:59,040
Speaker 4: cleanup and all of that. So a company that has

1870
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:01,880
Speaker 4: a round two billion dollars in stock buybacks in a year,

1871
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:04,759
Speaker 4: it's a seven hundred million dollar fine. Essentially, it's the cost.

1872
01:41:04,600 --> 01:41:05,280
Speaker 7: Of doing business.

1873
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:09,480
Speaker 4: Well, that does it for us. On today's editional counterpoints.

1874
01:41:09,200 --> 01:41:10,559
Speaker 3: Ed move bark to all who celebrate.

1875
01:41:10,560 --> 01:41:13,120
Speaker 5: I'm going to a feast later, but I feel like

1876
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:15,559
Speaker 5: I didn't earn it because I did zero fasting.

1877
01:41:16,360 --> 01:41:18,360
Speaker 4: You really, I mean, you did not earn it at all.

1878
01:41:18,520 --> 01:41:19,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to go. It's not just a feeling.

1879
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:21,120
Speaker 4: You really didn't earn it.

1880
01:41:21,439 --> 01:41:24,599
Speaker 3: But I'm gonna go anyway. There's just food on the table.

1881
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:25,280
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be there.

1882
01:41:25,600 --> 01:41:28,519
Speaker 4: There you go, There you go. Well, we'll be back

1883
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:31,679
Speaker 4: next week with more counterpoints. Make sure that you subscribe

1884
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:33,880
Speaker 4: to the premium version at breaking points dot com because

1885
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:36,439
Speaker 4: we do have some really cool stuff coming down the pipeline. Actually,

1886
01:41:36,840 --> 01:41:38,439
Speaker 4: I don't want to give anybody a date yet, but

1887
01:41:38,720 --> 01:41:41,040
Speaker 4: sooner than you might even think, you're just within the

1888
01:41:41,080 --> 01:41:43,880
Speaker 4: next several weeks, So stay tuned everyone, We've got some

1889
01:41:43,920 --> 01:41:44,800
Speaker 4: fun stuff coming up.

1890
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:46,360
Speaker 3: See that, see you that