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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's another episode of Hunting Collective. It's coming

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Speaker 1: at you. It's good. It's August. We're there, man, this

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Speaker 1: is basically Hunting Season. We're calling it that we're there

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Speaker 1: and we're excited about it. You're gonna hear a lot

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Speaker 1: of good content coming up. But on episode seventy three,

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Speaker 1: in particular, you're gonna get Ryan cal Callahan of Cow's

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Speaker 1: Weekend Review, Seth Morris of the Mediator Team, and Fill

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Speaker 1: the Engineer, and we're talking about lots and lots of

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Speaker 1: different things, including some damn near died stories, And at

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Speaker 1: the end of the show there's some some tears kind

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Speaker 1: of shed through a damn near died story. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about trailhead diplomacy, we're talking about mustaches, talking about well

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Speaker 1: white claw. I'm sure it gets to mention in there somewhere,

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Speaker 1: and a guy who's dog killed a fawn in Colorado.

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Speaker 1: He's a fishing guy. He posted it. There was an

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Speaker 1: outrage online and even more outrageous coverage of the incident

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Speaker 1: by the Washington Post. So we get into that. You're

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Speaker 1: gonna hear me scream and yell a little bit, maybe

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Speaker 1: for the first time on this podcast. Because I'm fired

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Speaker 1: up man fired up about that topic. And after that

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Speaker 1: we're joined by Outside Magazines West Siler. He is no

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Speaker 1: stranger to controversy, he is no stranger to leveling his opinion,

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Speaker 1: and he does that on and definitely wild on online

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Speaker 1: column that's featured on Outside online dot com. So you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get all that. But before we get to that,

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Speaker 1: there's some Yetti stuff coming. Man. They just launched. They

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Speaker 1: just launched their whole new fall line, or at least

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Speaker 1: a little sneak peak of their fall line, and it

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Speaker 1: includes a product I'm pretty excited about, and that's the

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Speaker 1: Rambler Jr. Twelve ounced kids bottle. If you've been following

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Speaker 1: along with the Yetti story, you know that there's there's

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Speaker 1: always been an idea that this brand is is for everybody.

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Speaker 1: It's for the hardcore. But now my young son will

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Speaker 1: have a Yetti of his own, and I'm very excited

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Speaker 1: about that. For those of us that are that are hunters, anglers,

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Speaker 1: and dad's or moms, this is the perfect thing to

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Speaker 1: get your kid into. One of the best brands and

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Speaker 1: outthor products that there is, and that's Eddie. So check

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Speaker 1: out the Rambler Junior twelve ounce kids bottle at Eddie

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Speaker 1: dot com. Without further ado, We're gonna get into a

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Speaker 1: very fired up episode of The Hunting Collective right now,

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Speaker 1: let's go. I guess I grew up on an older road,

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Speaker 1: a pedal to the medals. I always did what I

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Speaker 1: told until I found out that my brand new cloes

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Speaker 1: a game second hand from the rich kids next door.

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Speaker 1: And I grew up baths. I guess I grew up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are a thousand things inside of my

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Speaker 1: head I wish I ain't seen, and now I just

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Speaker 1: wanted through a real bad dream or being and like

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Speaker 1: I'm coming apart of the scenes. But thank you Jack Daniels.

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Speaker 1: Oh hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Hunt Collective.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben O'Brien. It's episode seventy three, and we're in August,

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Speaker 1: damn it, and it's our cal You feel like there's

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Speaker 1: some good hunts to be had in August, because I

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Speaker 1: feel like August is an underrated hunting month. Well boy,

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Speaker 1: they're hot, you know, but like they know. One of

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Speaker 1: the more coveted mule deer tags in the whole wild

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Speaker 1: World starts in August with the Arizona Strip tags. There's

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Speaker 1: some good, good prong horn to be had. New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: this state has some good prong horn and in the

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Speaker 1: in the archery prong horn in August, so you could

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Speaker 1: problem weren't to be chased. If you want to go north,

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Speaker 1: you can go to Alaska, Caribou, you can do a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff anything else over their south. What do

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Speaker 1: you got Do you have any good August hunting memories

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Speaker 1: growing up in Pennsylvania, Um, there's not much opportunity on

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Speaker 1: anything in August. That's true. You just so you're sad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was just sad boy until towards the end of

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Speaker 1: September when archer would come in in New Jersey. That'd

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Speaker 1: be the first time of the year for me. Usually. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well here there's some August stuff to do, but August

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Speaker 1: is not Let's not only talk about exie in August.

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Speaker 1: There's some other things great, there's some other things to

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Speaker 1: be had. So if you're out there thinking that time

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Speaker 1: is not yet upon us, it's pretty much upon us,

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Speaker 1: as evidence by pretty much everybody in the office talking

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Speaker 1: about like what's the next time when we can I

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Speaker 1: get I gotta get some maress, my bow, my bow. Oh, ship.

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Speaker 1: My bow is not ready. What do I do? My garage?

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Speaker 1: It's not organized? Everybody with Steve Ornella because his garage

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Speaker 1: is always organized. Disgusting dates. Um, you guys both have mustaches.

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Speaker 1: We do. You've been told often that you look alike?

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Speaker 1: What do you cal? What do you think about that?

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Speaker 1: Is that a point of pride that? Yeah? It's great?

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Speaker 1: Gets you know, send all those lady admirers Seth's way.

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Speaker 1: He's young and virile. Yeah, you guys send back and

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Speaker 1: back and forth. These are some confused ladies. They're like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know when the date is or gonna go,

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Speaker 1: but I need it. What's the When did you first

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Speaker 1: grow the mustache? Seth at Signs West by the Way.

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Speaker 1: I was still living in Pennsylvania, so it was four

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Speaker 1: years ago. Oh really, so it's a fresh over four

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Speaker 1: years ago fresh broom. Yeah, not near as long as

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Speaker 1: cal Cal wouldn't cal you had yours a eight. I

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Speaker 1: definitely grew it early for short stance, um in. But yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: all I ever wanted was like a big old mountain

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Speaker 1: man beard, and it was very obvious that that was

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Speaker 1: not going to happen. But it turns out I can

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Speaker 1: grow a mustache. So that's that's what I got. You

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Speaker 1: don't think you can grow a beard? No, it is.

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Speaker 1: It is not not a good looking site, seth. Would

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Speaker 1: you you a beard guy? So yeah, when I first

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Speaker 1: brought in the mustache, my issue was, like the corner

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Speaker 1: of my mouth here didn't connect real well to the

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Speaker 1: rest of my beard. So like I could grow beard

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Speaker 1: and like not like not have a mustache. I tried that.

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Speaker 1: It looks terrible. Yeah, um, and then the beard with

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Speaker 1: the mustache just looks weird because like doesn't connect here. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So see you like some headlight situation, right, pink skin? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What is it about a mustache to just like shapes

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Speaker 1: a man's personality because you can't just shave that off now, No,

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Speaker 1: it's here to stay. It's my dad said. If I

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Speaker 1: my dad's had a mustache since I've I've been a person.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my dad has like high school football pictures

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Speaker 1: of him with a mustache. Did you ever think about

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Speaker 1: shaving half your dad's mustache off to see what he

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Speaker 1: would do if he would just keep the half stash

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Speaker 1: he would save? How puss you again, I've thought about

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Speaker 1: that often. My dad will listen to this and he'll

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Speaker 1: know that. I've been lurking in the night with the

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Speaker 1: pair of clippers thinking about it. I haven't done it yet, Phil.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever grow facial hair? I have not tried

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Speaker 1: because it looks terrible. What do you mean if I

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Speaker 1: don't shave for a week or two, I look like

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Speaker 1: a like a twelve year old boy going through p Well,

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Speaker 1: there was a couple of people that wrote in they

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Speaker 1: finally saw you on Instagram last week. You iced to

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Speaker 1: me out of the pulse. Yeah, iiced you. You got

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Speaker 1: honorable mention on every pole. Thanks man. Yeah, you're welcome. Uh.

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Speaker 1: People were saying that they thought you were chubbier and

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Speaker 1: middle aged they saw your Yeah, no, I think it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's just the name Phil. It kind of comes.

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Speaker 1: That's true, because how do you get chubby out of

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Speaker 1: a voice? Yeah? I like got some depth. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: sound heavy, sounds hungry, sounds like an overreader. No, no

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Speaker 1: facial hair for you ever, feel you know? I I'm too.

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Speaker 1: I'm too scared to try. I look terrible. Really, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it looks bad. We won't judge. If you want to.

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Speaker 1: That's a lot. Give it two or three weeks, Okay, Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll think about it when November rolls around. You

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Speaker 1: can't have no in your heart Phil trying to grow

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Speaker 1: a mustache. I'll shave down to just a mustache. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it happens. I don't heartedly disagree with shaving down to

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you think it should. Like you go bear

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Speaker 1: scan and you commit to the mustache earlier only for

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Speaker 1: the fact, or you commit the mustache out of the

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Speaker 1: gate only for the fact that it's more fun for

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Speaker 1: the people around you. Ah well, the men of the people.

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Speaker 1: Is what's going on? You got a storm going overhead

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Speaker 1: and the light out the window. Yeah, I'm looking over

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Speaker 1: the mixing board just to make sure that curtain feels

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Speaker 1: so we can see this storm. This actually is uh

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Speaker 1: a good thing if you if you follow at Signs West,

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Speaker 1: he's kind of like the Seth is the meat eater

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Speaker 1: meteor all just oh man, look at that. Holy holy shit.

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Speaker 1: I just I just updated the Graham before we started.

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Speaker 1: Did you get Yeah, so that's a good Let everyone

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Speaker 1: know that something was coming. Let's go over and get

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Speaker 1: over there to Signs West and then you'll get those

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Speaker 1: Meeta Office window weather updates. The the the upper floor

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Speaker 1: window updates yeah, yeah, those are good and that's I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's again a man of the mustache man is a

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Speaker 1: man of the people because you're taking advantage of your

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Speaker 1: window office and you're just telling people this is what

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Speaker 1: I see, trying to keep the people informed. One news

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Speaker 1: source to check. It's gonna be out signs west on

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Speaker 1: the Instagram, especially for the weather. If you're in the

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Speaker 1: Canary district of Bozeman. You really got to watch what

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Speaker 1: you do around South Desk because I noticed that he

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Speaker 1: got me doing my my pull ups this morning. That

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Speaker 1: was me trying to send the ladies. And oh, by

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Speaker 1: the way, the interview segment of this show is Outside

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Speaker 1: Magazine's West Side. We had a lot of really cool

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Speaker 1: uh subjects to discuss, one of which, um it was

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Speaker 1: a story where he almost died on a motorcycle, a

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Speaker 1: motorcycle accident and he shed a tear. Was the first

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Speaker 1: Hunting Collector of you guests to cry. All. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it was crying, It was just like welling up,

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Speaker 1: getting emotional, and so I figured, why not try to

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Speaker 1: make everybody else cry and see if you guys can

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Speaker 1: tell me stories about when you almost died. So Seth,

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Speaker 1: you got one. I got one. You think you might cry, No,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna cry on this one. UM. This was

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Speaker 1: two summers ago. I was in Idaho. UM. I was

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Speaker 1: on fire crew on a on a type six engine

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Speaker 1: crew UM for a private company. And we showed up

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Speaker 1: to a fire. We got debriefed. We got briefed on

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Speaker 1: the fire. UM. They said it hasn't moved in three days.

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Speaker 1: UM fire, the fire conditions weren't right. Uh, high humidity,

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Speaker 1: fire wasn't doing much. There was smoke jumpers that were

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Speaker 1: already on the fire. UM they had it pretty much

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Speaker 1: like contained. So we headed in and started putting in

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Speaker 1: a hose lee UM on this hand line that a

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Speaker 1: hot shot crew dug out and we get halfway down

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Speaker 1: towards the fire, down the steep slope, and for some

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Speaker 1: reason the wind shifted and UM, as far as like

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Speaker 1: fire terminology, it blew up, which means it just like

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Speaker 1: got intense and the wind blowing in your mustache. It

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Speaker 1: was that is not good. It was blowing very much.

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Speaker 1: Expecting the end of the story. But like the only

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Speaker 1: reason I'm alive is my UM. So yeah, the fire,

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Speaker 1: the fire blew up, and I remember the last we're

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Speaker 1: with some hot shots. Um, going down to steep slope

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Speaker 1: and it's like you're not running, You're no way, You're

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Speaker 1: you're running uphill because you know, i'd hook it's deep. Um.

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Speaker 1: The last thing I remember hearing before we started running

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Speaker 1: was hot shot. Yeah, He's like, boys, it's about to

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Speaker 1: get really fucking hot here. And you just I just

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Speaker 1: like turned around. There's just a wall of fire, like

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Speaker 1: it got up in the canopy the canopies of the

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Speaker 1: trees and was just like raging our way. So we

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Speaker 1: ended up running like sidehill away from it. And um,

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Speaker 1: as we were running, there was like golf ball size

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Speaker 1: embers that were like flying up over our shoulders and

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Speaker 1: like starting little spot fires in front of us. So

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Speaker 1: we're like dodging those. And finally we got far enough

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Speaker 1: ahead of it and we shot down slope because like

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Speaker 1: it was kind of burning at an angle up. So

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Speaker 1: we shot down slope and there was a designated deployment site,

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Speaker 1: which is it's a site where you go to it's

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Speaker 1: like a last resort thing, go to deployer fire fire shelter,

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Speaker 1: which no one wants to do. Um. So we went

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Speaker 1: down to that and we just kind of waited it out. Um,

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Speaker 1: the fire kind of burned up to us. There was

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Speaker 1: some smoke jumpers there that I started to burn out

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Speaker 1: an area around us, and then they got on the

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Speaker 1: radio is real quick and called in um the seat

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Speaker 1: planes that flew and dropped retardant on on the fire

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Speaker 1: so we'd get out there was it? Is there a

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Speaker 1: memory like this could be it? Oh? Yeah, that was

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Speaker 1: like it was just like it was when we started running.

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Speaker 1: It was just like, it's this could be like my

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Speaker 1: last sprint. It was scary. It was like the first

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Speaker 1: time in my life. I was like, I might not

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Speaker 1: make it. They're seeing the movie Backdraft? No, are you

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Speaker 1: kidding me? Yeah? So I was placing you in the Backtraft.

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Speaker 1: Kurt Russell, Yeah, I was. You were Kurt Russell to

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Speaker 1: when you're describing that in my head, I don't have

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Speaker 1: to watch it. Yeah, which is a handsome man, Kurt Russell,

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Speaker 1: Cal you have a you have a It wasn't one

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Speaker 1: of the Baldwin brothers in there too, probably probably Alec,

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Speaker 1: Probably Alec was it? No, I think it was the

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Speaker 1: Stephen Baldwin. There you go, o, Stephen. I think that's right. Phil.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Backdraft? I have not. No, Phil

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Speaker 1: has seen every Marvel movie, which apparently there's many. How

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Speaker 1: many Marvel movies have you seen? Phil? I thought there

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Speaker 1: was like Marvels one through six, but apparently there's like thirties.

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Speaker 1: So no, No, the m c U, the Marvel Cinematic Universe,

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Speaker 1: it's uh, you guys laughing at me. But but you're

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Speaker 1: the weird ones here. No, they're over your twenty that

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Speaker 1: started in two thousand seven with the first Iron Man

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Speaker 1: with Robert Downey Jr. And now yeah, there's like over twenty.

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Speaker 1: There's like, I can't keep up, can't keep up. It's wild.

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Speaker 1: I have not seen you fill your band from talking

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Speaker 1: about the Marvel Universe to the rest. That's probably a

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Speaker 1: good sorry about these people tomorrow. M c U was

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Speaker 1: banned for the podcast. Unless people write and and and

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Speaker 1: plead for seth and you're talking about those embers flying

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Speaker 1: out of your shoulders, I could just yeah that was

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Speaker 1: that sounds dude, it's crazy. Check out the cast of Backtrack, alright,

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Speaker 1: Kurt Russell was the lead, Nice the little known William Baldwin,

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Speaker 1: Billy Billy, Robert de Niro, Wow, do you remember he

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Speaker 1: was in there? Donald Sutherland Jennifer Jason Lee Man. It

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Speaker 1: was this is a stack cast that cast I gotta

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Speaker 1: watch that came out When were you born? Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was meant to be. It was meant to be. Billy

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Speaker 1: Baldwin must be the Sorry what we overshot her budget

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Speaker 1: a little bit? Do you have another bald Alec? What's

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Speaker 1: Billy doing? I think he's dead. No, he's alive. Get

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Speaker 1: him in here, get him in here. He owes us.

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Speaker 1: He's not. Billy Baldwin hasn't really been in much. According

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Speaker 1: to his idea IDV page, he's really not been in much.

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Speaker 1: He was in backdraft too this year. There was a

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Speaker 1: backdraft to this this year, backdraft to twenty eight years

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Speaker 1: after the original, twenty eight years after the original, backdraft

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Speaker 1: to the sequel to the ninety nine one. It fills

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Speaker 1: investigator with the Chicago Fire Department who has to track

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Speaker 1: down an arms dealer who uses deadly fires as a distraction. Wow,

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Speaker 1: unbelievable backtrack to start Billy Baldwin. Billy Baldwin. Kurt Russell

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Speaker 1: didn't make it back for that one. In a damn

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Speaker 1: near dide stories for us. Um No, I mean really,

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Speaker 1: because I'm always like, well, this may not work out,

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Speaker 1: but I gotta keep doing this. So I've never really

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Speaker 1: had like the this is moment moment, yeah, because I'm like, I,

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Speaker 1: if this option doesn't work out, then I could very

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Speaker 1: well have that moment. But you know, I've had like, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, some odd panicky things on a goat hunt

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. Now, Um, we're going up

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Speaker 1: through these cliff band ribbons that were very vertical, and

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Speaker 1: and I was helping out the hunter whose whose buddy

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Speaker 1: of mine? The guy who was lucky enough to draw

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Speaker 1: the tag some bitch um and just you know, we're

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Speaker 1: another buddy of mine. And I were like shuttling the

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Speaker 1: packs and rifles and stuff up up the cliff face,

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Speaker 1: and um, I just like I had a moment after

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Speaker 1: those guys were up in like the leap Frog series

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Speaker 1: going up, where all of a sudden I had to

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Speaker 1: like chill out for a little bit. I was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, this is very very unsafe. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: just like some weird panicky things. But it's always like

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Speaker 1: take a second, I'll get there, find an option, go

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Speaker 1: with it. Surprised, I'm surprised you haven't had more death defying.

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Speaker 1: You probably have had him you're just not qualifying? Was

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Speaker 1: that because you feel like you're always there's always a chance.

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Speaker 1: I'm still here, still here? Yeah, have you ever nothing

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Speaker 1: involving fighting fires or hunting. But I was in a

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Speaker 1: pretty bad rollover down the stairs. Sorry accident. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: well you got there. This is the only well, honestly,

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Speaker 1: that probably hurt more. I have to apologize to you know, Phil,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry for interrupting you to make fun of you

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Speaker 1: while you were talking about a very serious star accident

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Speaker 1: was the only apologies ever gonna get Ding rural Washington

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Speaker 1: late at night, and uh, I was in the passenger seat.

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Speaker 1: Ninety degree turned snuck up on my friend and I

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Speaker 1: and he took it too hard and h yeah, which

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Speaker 1: missed a tree like about a three ft trunk by

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Speaker 1: a foot. Maybe he ended up rolling into someone's It

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Speaker 1: was a farm, just farmland. But I mean, I was

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Speaker 1: wearing my seat belt. If I hadn't weren't wearing my

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Speaker 1: seat belt, would not be here. Uh And um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I hit that tree, I'm guessing I wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: beer either, because we turned left and I was on

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Speaker 1: the passenger seats, so but yeah, I was scary. But

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Speaker 1: you know um made it out. Yeah, I mean thanks

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Speaker 1: for like all your fans out there, and they keep

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Speaker 1: there all thankful, they keep Did you guys know that

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Speaker 1: there's to keep film moving out there? Face right now?

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Speaker 1: Why why would we get to see? That's the inference.

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Speaker 1: And the first time he was on that, I was

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Speaker 1: like a test that if he didn't do well, we're

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Speaker 1: kick him off. I wasn't serious, Phil, I mean, you're welcome.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever think that if you weren't wearing your

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Speaker 1: seat belt, um, and you were injured severely, that someone

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Speaker 1: may approach you and say, hey, I have a highly

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00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:11,360
Speaker 1: experimental solution to your problem, and then you could come

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Speaker 1: out on the back end with some sort of like

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Speaker 1: bionic prosthesis and solve crimes and whatnot, and then it

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Speaker 1: would be the movie I'd like to see super film Man. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll be into that. What would your superhero name be?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. The pubescent facial hair man, the spotty

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Speaker 1: facial exactly. The mixer, the mixer, the filter. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think I got this. I got this this one from

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Speaker 1: high school. Does everybody email to meet with superhero? The filibuster?

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Speaker 1: I think buster? Speaking of things that really don't belong

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Speaker 1: on hunting podcast You do you You're from Pennsylvania, Seth.

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Speaker 1: I've been wanting to talk about do sports belong in

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Speaker 1: the hunting community because I lived for a long time

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Speaker 1: or like sports and hunting were the things that made

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Speaker 1: my weekends go. I don't do sports as much as

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Speaker 1: I used to, but I still love I still follow them,

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Speaker 1: but I don't not as intensely as I did. Did

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Speaker 1: you have the same experience in Pennsylvania growing up? I

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Speaker 1: grew up um hunting on saturdays where I could hear

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Speaker 1: Penn State football games going on in the background. Um,

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Speaker 1: that would be enjoyable. It's like a double It's like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't mind it. Yeah, yeah, you could

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Speaker 1: just hear you hear the crowd cheering, and Penn State

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Speaker 1: fans a pretty rowdy. So yeah, it was like a

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Speaker 1: So you knew when they scored? When they scored? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for sure, Um did they scored? No they didn't. Um

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Speaker 1: in wait a minute, guy, there's a wounded deer on

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Speaker 1: the field. Holy shit. Um. In college I got season

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Speaker 1: tickets one year to to football games, and I missed

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Speaker 1: like half the games because of funding. So do you

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Speaker 1: feel do you feel that you know because here at

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Speaker 1: Mediata we've set up this kind of anti sports mentality

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Speaker 1: through Mr Ronella and even even cal you would say

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Speaker 1: that you're not You're not a sports fan, are you?

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Speaker 1: It's not for anything other than I know, uh many

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Speaker 1: people I would consider sports fans and the amount of

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Speaker 1: catching up I would have to do would uh. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just more dedication than I have. It is. It'd

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Speaker 1: be like, you know, there's twenty seven movies and the

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Speaker 1: m c U and I'm number one, and everybody's caught

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Speaker 1: talking about seven. Right. It's like you'd have to pick

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Speaker 1: a team. You'd have to find out why you pick that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: out the last fifty years of their team history. Understand

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Speaker 1: why do they wear that color? Well? Yeah, my friends

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Speaker 1: that are that I conspider consider sports fans. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're like they'd know all that stuff. And I'm just

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Speaker 1: a complete poser at this point. And I mean, do

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Speaker 1: you think if you grew up in a state that

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Speaker 1: had like a professional team, does that mean Montana they

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Speaker 1: don't have much for sports? You know, professionals w g

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Speaker 1: M so one of the three channels and sports and

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Speaker 1: Cow's most of your families Cubs fans yeah. They had

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Speaker 1: a huge Cubs fan, huge Cubs fan. Um yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it was like Cubs Notre Dame. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: Atlanta Braves fans in Montana also for the same same

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Speaker 1: reason that that was the channel we got. So for

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Speaker 1: those of you at they're nervous about being sports fans

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Speaker 1: and also being a hardcore hunter, that's fine. That's a

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Speaker 1: safe place for you. Yeah it is. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it's a problem with it. No, you come to th C.

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Speaker 1: Some people have emailed recently saying that they feel as

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Speaker 1: though they could be ostracized for being a big sports fan,

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Speaker 1: like a big enough sports and that you would wear

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Speaker 1: a jersey from another man. Oh no, I love that

399
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: type of uh commitment. I think I think I will.

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00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: I think that's awesome, you know, if you if you

401
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 1: can wear it on your sleeve like that, confident enough

402
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: to wear it on your sleeve like that. But um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I would definitely like get very frustrated with some

404
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: of my friends from like, hey, let's go do anything

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00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: outside and the sorry games on and you're like, yes, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm obvious to be here, Blues guy. The team can't

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00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: do without me? Yeah yeah, yeah, But it is. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the truth of it, all right. Sports doesn't match

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Speaker 1: with hunting because you can't. Sports isn't interactive. You sit

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00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: there and you watch somebody else do and you get

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Speaker 1: mad because yeah, you can't do it. And a lot

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Speaker 1: of sports happen on Saturdays, that's right, and Sunday and

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00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: Sundays for days you should be hunting unless you live

414
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Speaker 1: in some states on the East coast and they have

415
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,719
Speaker 1: blue laws and you can't go. Huney. Yeah, it's just

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00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: a shame. Shout out to North Carolina. Actually, hey, listen

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00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: to North Carolina. Was looking at the state rankings for

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00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: th HU the other day and you guys are number four.

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Speaker 1: Come on, get your hands up, ye, come on, come on,

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Speaker 1: tar heels, appreciate it, Blue devil star heels whatever. Thank

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00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: you for for being out you're out there. I'm talking

422
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 1: to you. Um. Switching gears to trailhead diplomacy, Cal can

423
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: you can you define trailhead diplomas because in this in

424
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 1: this UH interview with West Siler, we talk a lot

425
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: about the outdoor wreck community, hiker, hiker and biker community

426
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: as opposed to the hook and bullet community, which traditionally

427
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: we're a part of, and how to how to make

428
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: those things better, both from an industry standpoint, but then

429
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: just a just a user group standpoint of who's using what,

430
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: when can they use it? Who you know, who has

431
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: ownership over what, and we know that we all share it. So, um,

432
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: it's something you'll hear in a little bit with west Siler,

433
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,919
Speaker 1: you know, just from his post it Outside magazine, But

434
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,159
Speaker 1: it's Kyle, You've been heavily involved in this idea. I

435
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: think the first step is, you know, recognizing the fact

436
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: that whatever you choose to do that day, if you

437
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: run into whatever form of recreation you choose to do

438
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: that day, whether it's walking your dog or mountain biking

439
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: or being all dressed up in camouflage with the bore

440
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 1: rifle in your hand, um, you need to recognize the

441
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 1: fact that you are the representative for that sport to

442
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: whomever you run into on the trail. Um, that sport

443
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: or pursuit like that is just the fact. That's how

444
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: human beings work. So when you're a mountain biker and

445
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: you run into somebody who's riding a horse up the trail,

446
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: that interaction that you have, good or bad. At the end,

447
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: of the day when you separate and you go you're

448
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 1: and recap your data. Whoever that interaction with, whoever is

449
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: going to be representative of that entire group. You are

450
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: the mountain biker, whether it's your first day on a

451
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: mountain bike or you're first day or two thousands and

452
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: thirty second day, that you are the mountain biking community

453
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: to that horseback rider, and that horseback rider is representing

454
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 1: the entire horse riding owning community to that mountain biker. So, um,

455
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: that's that's the first crucial step, and the diplomacy part

456
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: is purely just making that interaction respectful and enjoyable and um,

457
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: you know, be both respectful of the use of the

458
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: trail but also in whoever's chosen endeavor, and then really

459
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: just not having your head so far up your ass

460
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 1: to think that that is the only thing that person does.

461
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: And that is you know, the reality is, especially in

462
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: the West, is you know, it is a multiple use landscape,

463
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: and then that person riding a horse could be a

464
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: major fly fishing person or mountain bike rider themselves. They

465
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: just chose that day to Yeah, that's one thing I

466
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: enjoy about living here among the many things that everybody

467
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: has some kind of outdoor passion for lack of a

468
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: better term, everybody has something they love to do outside.

469
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: And so if you were to pigeonhole him'll look at

470
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: you guy skiing. He's just a skier. He may be

471
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: a better elk hunter than you are. Exactly exactly, um,

472
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,959
Speaker 1: but I mean that that is the thing is like

473
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: you have the power to absolutely set back the hunting

474
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: community or whatever recreational endeavory year out there doing um

475
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: to set it back or moving forward with every interaction.

476
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: And sometimes there's tension on a trail. Um, mountain bikers

477
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 1: moving really fast, horseback riders moving really slow, Granny out

478
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: there walking or dog moving really slow. And you're a

479
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: mountain biker. Um. You know folks who are new in

480
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: town and they run into you hunting and there I

481
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: don't know what the hell hunting is, or if the

482
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: season's open, or if you're some crazy militia person out

483
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: in the woods. Um, then you know you gotta have

484
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: it's just as important to you know, bag the deer

485
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: or the elk or whatever as it is to make

486
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: sure that this stuff sticks around. And sometimes that's taking

487
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: thirty seconds to say, hey man, it is a beautiful morning,

488
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: isn't it? Or it's a thirty five minute conversation on

489
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: where'd you come from? What's that happening in? This is

490
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: a really Yeah do you like to hike? You know? Well,

491
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: I saw a bunch of hel cup on the trail.

492
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: If you want to go, take a picture of them,

493
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: take a look, you know whatever. So yeah, there's no

494
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 1: better source of information than mountain biker or a hiker.

495
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: Uh what'd you see? You know what he's seen out there?

496
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, old retired folks too that they're like they're

497
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: on the trail every single day at five thirty in

498
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: the morning, walking their dog and drinking their coffee. They

499
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: they're out there being observant to you know. Damn right. Yeah,

500
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: I've had We're in the in the Salt Tooth not

501
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: too long ago near Stanley a couple of years ago,

502
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: and we were there's five of us. We just got

503
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: done a bear hunt and we were we were just

504
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: gonna go in a little hike. I told this story

505
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: on the podcast before, but I'm gonna go a little hike.

506
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: Is the five of us, and we're all kind of

507
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 1: we're not dressing our hunting clothes, but we all have

508
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: one or two pieces of cama on. This is what

509
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: we what we're wearing at the time. And we've all

510
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 1: we've all got bears tagged in and cut up, and

511
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 1: we're going up the trailhead. We're trying to figure out

512
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: how to get to this like Goat Lake. You've been there,

513
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: Goat Lake. Uh no, And we're going up the trail

514
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: and this real hippie looking chick comes trotting out. She's

515
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: looking us up and down, and she made mention like

516
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: what are you guys doing, And somebody in the back

517
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: of the group just goes bear hunting, like just knowing

518
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: that's gonna you know, that's gonna get up her spine

519
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: and get her aggravated. Well, she got it back and us.

520
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: She said, well, I've got a shortcut to bear to

521
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: to go, like just go right up this ridge right here,

522
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: and then just keep on going that way and you'll

523
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: be You'll be there no time, You're there before everybody else.

524
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: And that wasn't it wasn't true. We went away, she said,

525
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: and uh there was no Goat Lake. I believe the

526
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: term cliff out came into bow and so I learned

527
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: a valuable lesson that day. Thanks hippie chick teaching me

528
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: that lesson to be respectful on the trail. Yeah, man, absolutely,

529
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: And I've had lots and lots of you know, for

530
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: a long long time. I was like, I just want

531
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: to make my hunting as efficient as possible. So starting

532
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: from very congested and popular trailheads was was the norm.

533
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: And uh so, Yeah, I had lots of opportunities to

534
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: chat folks up, and very few of them we're folks hunting. Yeah,

535
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you the worst trail interaction I ever

536
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: had was, Um, while I was riding my mountain bike

537
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: with another person riding a mountain bike. We got to

538
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 1: a trail junction. There's a downhill like let's say, on

539
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: your right hand and uphill on your left hand. And

540
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: I was making the turn to go on the downhill

541
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:59,280
Speaker 1: saw this guy coming up on the uphill section from

542
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: from the opposite away. So we met at this junction

543
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: and I waited for him specifically, and you could tell

544
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: this guy was Mr Joe, serious mountain biker. I am

545
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: absolutely not for the record, um, and he had you know,

546
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: some like battle armor type stuff, looked like a character

547
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: from Yes, Yes, And I was like, hey, is that

548
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: iron man. I was like you, I'm like, you should

549
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: go ahead if you're going on this downhill. He's like, no, no,

550
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: go for it. It's like no, no, no, you look

551
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: like you're really gonna go fast. Like I like the

552
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: uphills because I like the exercise part of this situation.

553
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: Downhill is not what I'm interested in. So the guy

554
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: insisted I go first, and then he berated me from

555
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: the back after he caught up to me. We're wrong,

556
00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: get out of the the way, We're right. And he was

557
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: just not a pleasant person to be around. That was

558
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 1: his superpower. I would have stopped my bike and showed

559
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 1: him my superpower, which is an elbow to the chest

560
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: as you drove bhy talking ship. Yeah, no, no violence.

561
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 1: We can't preach violence here the trailhead. We can't be

562
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: beating each other up and has to pull over idead.

563
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: You know, but that's just a good example. Is all

564
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: you can do is is try and you know there

565
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: there are just some uh people who are not going

566
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: to be pleasant out there, but screw up. Dr Phil,

567
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 1: do you have any advice for people out there on

568
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: the trailheads. I don't know. I think I think we

569
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: covered it. My My advice is to lock your car

570
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:52,080
Speaker 1: doors because the trailhead thefts are a serious problem. There

571
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: are you had something something happened. Phil. Uh no, the

572
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: Phil will steal your ship, and I'm coming for your stuff.

573
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: Wink wink your well, you don't what the funny thing,

574
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: the same hippie chick story. We left. We had a

575
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: rental car. We left one of the car door open,

576
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: car doors open in the parking lot, just wide. We

577
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,959
Speaker 1: just open. We came back, We got back. We got

578
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: lost for like a whole for a long time, we

579
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: got cliffed out. We're gone for like five hours, and

580
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: came back in the door to the rental cars wide open.

581
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: So I've been lucky enough to have nothing but good

582
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 1: interactions on trails generally so good. I got a bunch

583
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 1: of friends would hunt late season cow tags and always

584
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: tried to It was really cool scene because it always

585
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: involved like a lot of first time hunters. And I

586
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: got this call like, hey, so and so got a

587
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: cow need help packing stuff out. So I, uh, you know,

588
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to do something congratulatory, so I swung by

589
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: the up and go, grabbed a six pack of beer,

590
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: drove out to the Trailhead noticed that there were like

591
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: six other vehicles that I recognized that at this time

592
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: of year would only be there because they also kind

593
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: of got the bat signal Batman in the Marble universe. Nope,

594
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: that's TC ye, I knew it. That was a comic.

595
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 1: Let's stand for in District Columbia. I have no idea.

596
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: How do you not know the acronyms in your world?

597
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: My world? Well, you have not that much of a

598
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:42,439
Speaker 1: nerd District Columbia comics. It's dark, like I said, late

599
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:44,919
Speaker 1: season cal Hunt, So you know, you get the dark

600
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 1: at like four o'clock in the afternoon. And I get

601
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: out there and the truck of the person that was

602
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: the first timer, um had all the lights on, interior

603
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: lights on. It must have been very excited. And so

604
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: all I did at that point was open the vehicle,

605
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: put the six pack of beer on the seat, turn

606
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 1: off all the interior lights, and then I got back

607
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: in my truck and went went back home. That's truel

608
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: Head Diplomas here right there. That is trail Head. You

609
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: can count on, Ryan Kelly, are man of the people,

610
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: Hey that that favor may get returned one of these days.

611
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 1: Speaking of people that aren't as favorable as maybe you are. Callahan,

612
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: tell us a story about this gentleman big game Garcia.

613
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 1: Oh Man. So this knuckle head was guiding fly fishing

614
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: in Colorado. Say was because at least he's not guiding

615
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: for the same outfit. The outfit reported that they canned him.

616
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: But this guy, it must have just been a different

617
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: level of being blissfully unaware. But I really just put

618
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: him in the larger urge overflowing population of bad pet owners. Um.

619
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 1: This guy would must have been guiding, like walking way

620
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 1: at fishing trips, had his dog with him. The dog

621
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: um killed at least one fawn because it was it

622
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 1: was shown to me through various sources that this guy

623
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: had indicated that his dog had killed some other fond

624
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 1: So you know, uh, fawn deer relies heavily on camouflage. UM.

625
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: In order to not bring attention to the fawn. Mothers

626
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: will like must give some signal for the kid to

627
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: lay down, Mom goes out does her feeding and stuff

628
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: like that. And then they had looped back through pick

629
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: up their kids and and go on their way. Well,

630
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: and if you if you spend a lot of time,

631
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: you know, running around in the June month fishing and

632
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 1: tall grass like eventually you are definitely gonna wander on

633
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 1: top of and he just lays there and kind of

634
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: eyes roll back in their head from fear, and but

635
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: they lay right there. Anybody could catch one. Well, um,

636
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: this guy of course decided it was a good idea

637
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: to cap off his fishing day with his clients with

638
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: like a video of his dog killing this fawn. And

639
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: then he um proceeded to do um skin the fawn

640
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: out and uh yeah and keep it. For some reason,

641
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: then he described the situation as his dog's first big

642
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 1: game kill. And um, you know, somehow the guy's got

643
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: to disconnect that his domestic animal when they're out on

644
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 1: the river becomes as if by magic, a wild animal

645
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: that is free to do those things, and not a

646
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: domestic animal. That is his responsibility. And he was. He

647
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: was charged July twenty three with allowing his dog to

648
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: harass wildlife, the illegal taking wildlife, and the legal possession

649
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: of wildlife. Yes, all misdemeanors. And I mean that your

650
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 1: your animals, especially your damn outside cats, they are your responsibility.

651
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: They go kill a bird that is is just just

652
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: like you went out and told the cat to go

653
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,800
Speaker 1: kill Abert. So this guy cannot keep control of his dog.

654
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: Dog kills a faun. He thinks his need he puts

655
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 1: it on social media. Um, yeah, social media kind of

656
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: erupts on this guy. Yes, he gets called out in

657
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 1: many many places. Social media erupts, he gets fired from

658
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: his job. He then gets charged and with it's only

659
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: a fine twenty license suspension point. It's according to cut

660
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 1: our parson wildlife. So and then they had, you know,

661
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: some they dug up some person who must be a

662
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: spokesman for god knows what in Colorado and calling this guy,

663
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: you know, really everybody kind of jumped on like the

664
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: hunting aspect of this. This is not Yes, this had

665
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: nothing to do with hunting. That the guy described the

666
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 1: dog killing the fawn as a big game kill, which

667
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: he said later on that was a joke. He came

668
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 1: out and did apologize, said it was a freak accident.

669
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: I am truly a lover of the outdoors, what he

670
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,800
Speaker 1: said later on. So and then the people make mistakes,

671
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,279
Speaker 1: and I did, And I'd appreciate the spotlight back on

672
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: the positive side of hunting and fishing instead of personally

673
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: critifying me and everyone close to me. Yes, And as

674
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: per usual, you know, the news outlet's like get a

675
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: hold of this that they focus there's this great positive

676
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,839
Speaker 1: message that could go out to all that your responsible

677
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: pet owners, of which this guy does not represent a

678
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: fraction of a fraction of the number of irresponsible pet

679
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,960
Speaker 1: owners um in the state of Colorado or nationwide or

680
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: in that county probably, And it's like, hey, domestic animals

681
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: take a toll on wildlife. You in order to have

682
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: a domestic animal need to have them in control at

683
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: all times. And I'm a guy who used to have

684
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: a lot of dogs in the past. They were almost

685
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: never leashed, but they were always in control, and I

686
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,279
Speaker 1: made damn sure that was the case, and I put

687
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: a lot of work into training those dogs. UM. So

688
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: there's many ways of going about keeping your animal in control.

689
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: But had my dog killed the fawn, I would have

690
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 1: been like, oh God called culorauto bars and wildlife and

691
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 1: particularly on a freaking guide trip. And then so this

692
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: all in a weird way marries up to what we're

693
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: talking about with uh in our interview with west Siler,

694
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: which we chatted about journalism for a while, like the

695
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 1: lack of integrity and how we report stories. And this,

696
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 1: this story that we're just going through and now was

697
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: reported by the Washington Post. And reading through the article

698
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: that it is the silliest bullshit I've ever read. It

699
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: makes me I like, when I read it, i am seething.

700
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: I'm so upset, like it is on that article is obnoxious,

701
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: like this is the Washington Post. In fact, I worked

702
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 1: there for a while. That was an intern there and

703
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: then worked there for a while, And there's rooms of

704
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 1: people that are intelligent, rooms of people that are thinking

705
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: about ideas critically. And then this ship comes out. And

706
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: let me just read you the first that I'll read

707
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: you the headline to give you some color. It's under

708
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 1: the tack of Ann Moles. He bragged about his big

709
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: game hunt on Instagram. It was a baby deer he

710
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: let his dog kill. That's the headline of the story.

711
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: And then they relate this irresponsible pet owner too big

712
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: game hunting in Africa. It is I'm telling you, I

713
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: would Phil just move away, move away. I will use

714
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: this microphone as a weapon. Just think about the way

715
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: this title is constructed. He bragged about his big game

716
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: hunt on Instagram. It was a baby deer. He let

717
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: his dog kill. That's not a news story. That's not

718
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: how news operations function. You say, you know, thirty six

719
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:42,319
Speaker 1: year old Colorado man charged with X X and X

720
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 1: after Instagram post with dead fawn. That is a headline

721
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: that states the facts. This leading horseshit is what's wrong

722
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: with this entire media landscape. Then magically transport you from

723
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: the banks of a river Colorado two. They say in

724
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: their Lions Rhinoceroses, I'm gonna read it to you. I

725
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:11,399
Speaker 1: read them a nice email, write the article because there's

726
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: a great example about bad pet ownership that they totally missed,

727
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: and they decided to vilify hunters who again had absolutely

728
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: nothing nothing to do with this. What like, I just

729
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: want to call him and be like, what are you?

730
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: Where are you? Who's paying you? It's me. It's pretty bad,

731
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: really shocking that we have a thing and called the

732
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: nutgraph in journalism, where you kind of are trying to

733
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: get across the base of the art what you're trying

734
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: to say in the first couple of graphs. The nutgraph

735
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,479
Speaker 1: is like the boiled down point of what you're trying

736
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: to say. Their nutgraft says this. He said it was

737
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 1: a big game kill, something usually associated with the controversial,

738
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: sometimes a legal sport of hunting large wild life in Africa, lions,

739
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: el leopards, and rhinoceroses. What do you have a brain?

740
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: None of that even makes sense, right, Phil? God, where

741
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: did you get that from? Well? I just I just

742
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: love that the first secon starts to he said it

743
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: was a big it's like the most the most editorialized,

744
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: like leading, like yeah, it's it's it's crass. I also

745
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: just what we need to point out the fact also

746
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: that hunting is not sometimes illegal. Hunting is if it's hunting,

747
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: it is legal, that is the definition. If it is illegal,

748
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 1: it's called poaching. Yeah, cow wrote, cow did better job

749
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: than I'm currently doing it. Yeah, I wish I was

750
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 1: over at the board right now. It's like, can adjust

751
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: some levels because it's gonna be rough. It's fine, give

752
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: me a white call, Phil, I need to calm down,

753
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: fired up, Like, yeah, he said it was a big

754
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: game kill, something usually associated with the controversial, sometimes the

755
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: legal sport of hunting large wildlife in Africa. What the

756
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: illegal sport? That? That right there leaves me speechless. That's terrible.

757
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: I desperately to be like can we get on a

758
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: call so we can both look at a globe, an

759
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: old timey globe, and just look at the size of

760
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: the continent of Africa. It's a continent. There are fifty

761
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:36,479
Speaker 1: four countries in Africa. There are big game laws. They're

762
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 1: independent countries. First off, there are many different management styles here,

763
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 1: of which are the same as the North American model

764
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: of game manage. What are you talking about. By the way,

765
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: there's fifty states in America. They all have their own

766
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: game management. This is my other favorite thing that people

767
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: in this situation do. This is the Washington Post, this

768
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: is wood War in Bernstein. This is a vestige of journalism.

769
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: And they're saying, okay, then they say later on they

770
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 1: go down, they're describing what happened. And they go down

771
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,440
Speaker 1: and they say, it was that photo and it's captioned

772
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: praising the kill that provoked the strongest reaction on social media.

773
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: And then they go on to quote people, random people

774
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 1: in social media. How there is no way to quote

775
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,760
Speaker 1: comments on social media without cherry picking the comments because

776
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,720
Speaker 1: there's not just one. You're not talking to an expert.

777
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: Your cherry picking perspectives that fit your narrative. And if

778
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 1: it's a really deep comment thread. Like if there's a

779
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: thousand comments, as a reporter, you can't do that integram

780
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: comments off the internet. Cherry picked the comments for you.

781
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: You can only pick comments on the internet if you've

782
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: given them context. And this guy says this is here's

783
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: the comment they picked. A fawn being a big game.

784
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: Being a fawn being a big game. That's not big game.

785
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: That's pathetic. Clint Lockhart, a Colorado native who grew up fishing,

786
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: told Fox News affiliate let me tell me somethingly. His

787
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 1: only expertise is that he lived in Colorado and he

788
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: grew up hunting and fishing. He's being quoted in the

789
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: news clamp I'll tell you I've got a lot of

790
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: fawns under my belt. They are fonds of the year

791
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: and they were tasty. The worst thing about it is

792
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: that he dresses this fawn, skins it, and lays it out. Afterwards,

793
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: he bragged about it. They're quoting this guy now. They

794
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: do go on to quote color parts of wildlife and

795
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 1: give some give and it makes me even more upset

796
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,240
Speaker 1: that they start to give some actual facts away halfway

797
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: down the article because the way that they let it

798
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 1: off it makes me even more upset. Do I need

799
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: to yell some more phil about this? You have my permissions?

800
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: Is he is an irresponsible pet owner. He's the same

801
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 1: guy who's not picking the dog shit up off of

802
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: your lawn for the guy leaving the dog ship in

803
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: the plastic bag along the trail. Yeah, do you know

804
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: who you are? Yeah, that's ridiculous. Yeah, anyway, I mean,

805
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: I don't even know what to say, but they do.

806
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: They do a decent job kind of in the middle

807
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,359
Speaker 1: of this article at that laying this out in some

808
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 1: the monicam of like facts, that's kind of all there,

809
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: But there's not a whole lot of like guy posted

810
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: thing he did wrong, he lost his job. This is

811
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: a pretty quick story. If it's an opinion piece, that

812
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: should come from that level. This is just like a mess.

813
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,720
Speaker 1: It's like it's a journalistic the end of the articles,

814
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,959
Speaker 1: like it starts, it goes through his apology, which is good,

815
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:30,759
Speaker 1: and then it says, but it's a Monday evening. The

816
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: comments were still flowing under Garcia's Facebook page, and they

817
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: were less than forgiving. Many of them disappeared soon after

818
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: they were published. Can you add in fill the law

819
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:46,720
Speaker 1: and order and then the last line of this whole.

820
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: For some reason, comments continued to pour in, almost as

821
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: if zoos outlets. We're covering this story in a very

822
00:50:55,000 --> 00:51:00,080
Speaker 1: sensational way. We may never know, we may never know.

823
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 1: Here's the last line. You you actually allowed your dogs

824
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,960
Speaker 1: to rip apart of fawn and video the killing. One

825
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: woman wrote, you're a sick person. I'm glad someone reported you.

826
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 1: And that's the end of the article. That's the that's

827
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: the end of the article, Phil, there's no more facts.

828
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: One woman wow. And they linked to the one woman's

829
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: comment so you can click through and read it. What

830
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: is happening? Cal I was just really real disappointed, disappointed

831
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:34,959
Speaker 1: to the point where I took the time to write

832
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 1: them an email. You wrote them a very articulate and

833
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: in nice emails. They have not responded. We may publish

834
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: that on the website, just with a picture of me

835
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: just pulling all my hair out, shaving down to a mustache. Second,

836
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 1: a nicer man's annoying. What they could have done some good?

837
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: They really could have. I mean, this is this like

838
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,760
Speaker 1: any other news half pending. There's facts, right, there's facts embedded.

839
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: There's also perspective that needs to be added, there's expertise

840
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: that needs to be added. There's all these things that

841
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: need to be added to the situation. The job of

842
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: a journalist is to add those perspectives in a meaningful way,

843
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: and a lot of which they did. They had a

844
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: random lady who commented on the Internet, and they had

845
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: a random Colorado resident. That's the context that they chose

846
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 1: to give. And I imagine if you, uh, let me

847
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: go back and find there. What their names again, do

848
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 1: you remember their names? Phil? Uh? No? And there's a

849
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 1: picture of a fall in here at the top. Of course,

850
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 1: Angela Fritz and Michael Bryce Sadler. Where did you get

851
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: their an email? Should we give it out here in

852
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 1: the air? Yeah? In the Washington Post? Then there you can. Yeah,

853
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: there's like little contact deal. Yeah, please please contact these

854
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: folks and let them know in a very calm manner,

855
00:52:53,880 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 1: unlike what I've done here that internet journalism to lomacy.

856
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: Every once in a while we let that go here

857
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: on on the Hunting Collective. But this this let me

858
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,720
Speaker 1: just want to read. Can I just read again the intro? Yeah? Sure,

859
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: he said it was a big game kill, something usually

860
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: associated with controversial, sometimes illegal sport of hunting large Africa.

861
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: Large wildlife in Africa lions, dash lions, elephants, leopards are

862
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: not like those of the fact, there's so much wrong

863
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: with this sentence. The dentist who got cecil the lion

864
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: was from Colorado. That's where they're getting on. That's that's now.

865
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: Never mind disregard Washington Post. Big game kill is usually

866
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: associated with with hunting large wildlife in Africa, specifically these

867
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:59,080
Speaker 1: four animals lions, elephants, leopards and rhinoceros. What's that from

868
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 1: the MCU for with great power? There you go. You

869
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 1: got it all right, Phil, Just as always, before we

870
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 1: get to the interview segment, give us some perspective here,

871
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: what what are you thinking right now? What's what's on

872
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: your mind? I'm just thinking about the storm outside. Should

873
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,919
Speaker 1: we check it out? Yeah, let's let's let's see what's

874
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 1: going on, because there's a storm inside my brain right

875
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,760
Speaker 1: it's Oh, it's still raining. Yeah. Somebody rode their bicycle today.

876
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 1: Cow cows cows bike. Someone is Ryan Cowke is my favorite.

877
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: People call me a hipster cow. Your bike is legit.

878
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: The milk crate. The milk crate has a bungee corded

879
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: milk crate on the back of his bike. It's like

880
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: a shwin what guy, it's for carrying my things. It's

881
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 1: a for carrying his lunch store he put in it,

882
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: and uh a live chicken right down the road. All right,

883
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: let's get to the interview person the Show'll see if

884
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: you can follow that up West Seiler from Outside Magazine. UM,

885
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 1: we're gonna transport back in time about four days and

886
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: we're be sitting this in this exact same room to

887
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:14,680
Speaker 1: talk to s about a lot of stuff. Enjoy. Yes,

888
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: how's it going, man, good dude, Welcome to meet either studio.

889
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 1: UM I usually started his podcast off. I've had some

890
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: people right in recently that they miss when I'd be

891
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: podcasting on the road, and I would ask the guest

892
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: to open the show by describing their surroundings. We got

893
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 1: some sometimes bad, sometimes good, sometimes funny descriptions, So we

894
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: might as well just let you describe this studio because

895
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,360
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of debate over the decor in

896
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: the studio. It's an interesting decor. UM. I would describe

897
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: this as like half corporate hotel art um and half

898
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 1: sort of weird gripping grin photos um, Yeah, they all

899
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: look like something strange is actually going along beyond just

900
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: a hunt or a fish. Yeah, that's about right. Strange.

901
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: It's strange corporate hotel art. I needed that. I needed

902
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 1: that because Ronella doesn't let me argue against this decor.

903
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,359
Speaker 1: But yes, most of the employees here have a grip

904
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:08,879
Speaker 1: and crent on the wall of some kind. So those

905
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 1: of you that have asked what the studio looks like,

906
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: we'll take a photo for you one of these days,

907
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: and maybe we'll film one of these podcasts. You never know.

908
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: I think this theme of the room is forced perspective.

909
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: I knew you. I knew you would get it, being

910
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: a man of the written word, I knew you described

911
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: this well well in the first person. Well, les, um,

912
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: let's just get get it over with and you tell

913
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 1: people what you do, what you're probably best known for,

914
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 1: and we'll get onto the good conversation. Yeah. So I

915
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: like to say that I write about adventure travel in

916
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,919
Speaker 1: the outdoors, and I do that for Outside magazine full

917
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,919
Speaker 1: time currently, but I have written for pretty much every

918
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: men's magazine and newspaper in the country. Yeah. I used

919
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,640
Speaker 1: to do cars and I did motorcycles, motorcycle editor at

920
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: Playboy for a while, and let's stop. Let's pause there

921
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: for a moment. What's that like? Um, the paychecks are

922
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: really good. I didn't see as many booby as you

923
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,240
Speaker 1: would expect. You would say, damn it. I thought, maybe

924
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: you've been in the grotto. I have been in the grotto.

925
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:07,440
Speaker 1: The grotto smells like a cage which monkey has been

926
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: having sex for thirty years. Lord, it is all made

927
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: from styrofallo. Rocks are fake and they've all made like

928
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 1: forty years ago. Its all the tips are falling off

929
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: and it's cracked there. Yeah, it's it's it's just the

930
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: worst of these sexy environment in the world. Actually, met

931
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: Ron Jeremy there. I shook his hand and told him

932
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: I admired his work. And what did he say? What

933
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 1: was his response? He just looked at me strange and

934
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: walked away. We're starting off on a good foot. So

935
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: the grotto was not as advertised. I don't even know

936
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: if it's even advertised anymore. It is like it used

937
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: to be, maybe in the seventies. That styrofoam. Yeah, it's

938
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: it's horrifying, is there it? So you know, Hefner's is

939
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: no longer with us. What's the mansion nowadays? I think

940
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: it's still owned by Playboy Corporation. Were sold recently. I

941
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact fate of it. It was.

942
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: It was awful. It's ready to be torn down. Like

943
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,920
Speaker 1: I went there probably five years ago last and the

944
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 1: carpet was threadbar, you know, just a vestige of the

945
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: time past. Yeah, it's like you don't want to touch anything,

946
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: all right. That's that's maybe that we were gonna have

947
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 1: a damn near died segment later. That could be your

948
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 1: that could be your answered. On outside dot com, Outside magazine,

949
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,840
Speaker 1: Outside online dot Com, there is a thing called and

950
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 1: definitely wild. Tell us what's the name means? By the way,

951
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 1: So it's from Henry Henry did with a row quote. Um,

952
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: and I forget the entire quote. It's from a little

953
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,800
Speaker 1: point but I can't recite that now. The probably very disappointingly.

954
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: But I started a at a business fail horribly, and

955
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: that's be part of my almost died story. Um. And

956
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 1: I was casting about for something else to do. Um,

957
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,440
Speaker 1: And so I went to the desert. Joshua treated my

958
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 1: dog and he was a puppy at the time, and

959
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: he ran off and found a group of very very

960
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: strange people and we got talking and they went ahead

961
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: a meeting about me, and they came back said, hey,

962
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 1: we had a meeting about you. You're like great guys.

963
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,240
Speaker 1: So it turns out they were a Native American worship

964
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 1: group about the Heather Annual Ayahuasca Spirit Quest, and they're like,

965
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 1: why don't you come join us? And I was like, sweet,

966
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's going on my life. You know,

967
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:07,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do that. And so I flew through

968
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 1: space for eight hours talk to God. God's a mean

969
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: ass bitch. And at the end of it, she was like,

970
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 1: why don't you go start a outdoors blog called it

971
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 1: Definitely Wild. You're making this up? Is the best I

972
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: couldn't have I couldn't have liked when I would have

973
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,880
Speaker 1: sourced and definitely Wild, I never would, but Journey, So

974
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,360
Speaker 1: it was. I read that for eighteen months as part

975
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: of Gawker Media group, and then uh, Outside came k

976
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: not gonna now I work for Outside. That's awesome. Now

977
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 1: I've been recently, you know. Uh, I spent some time

978
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 1: around Joe Rogan and some other folks, all Remarcus and

979
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: the like that do a lot of auto ayahuasca journeys,

980
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: they do a lot of d m T. I've been

981
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: thinking about it. You're talking a lie. You should? Should

982
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: I do it? Yeah? It's not a recreational experience. Yeah. Yeah,

983
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,400
Speaker 1: it's a very powerful, very meaningful, very difficult experience that

984
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 1: is not fun. Yeah, you gotta have a guide. Yeah.

985
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 1: I wouldn't urge you to do it authentically, not with

986
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 1: like some dude wearing like white robes and a banchion

987
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: of Beverly hills, like, you know, go find some some

988
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: natives in the middle of nowhere and Joshua Tree be

989
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 1: the best way to go. Yeah, exactly what else did

990
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: you learn to learn anything else? Um? The first four

991
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: hours of the experience are sure to have shown every

992
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 1: mistake that you've made in life and every person that

993
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: you've hurt and everything that went wrong. It's really hard

994
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: and very challenging and very personal direct um, And you've

995
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 1: definitely learn a lot from that. And the second four

996
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: hours and sort of how do you fix all that

997
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 1: and how do you get back to where you want

998
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: to be and how do you start to build a

999
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 1: better life? So you definitely learn a lot Um Wiley,

1000
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 1: My dog is my spirit animal. Yeah, it's it's all.

1001
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: It's all very challenging and very personal and very valuable

1002
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: if you're sort of open to the message. Yeah, no, no,

1003
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: I've I've picked up Michael Poland's recent book, The Name

1004
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 1: Escapes Me, but it's it explores psychedelics, and I mean

1005
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,520
Speaker 1: to read it and learn all you can, because I

1006
01:00:52,560 --> 01:00:54,920
Speaker 1: admire Poland's work from the Omini Wars de Leva and

1007
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: just all his works and and the fact that he

1008
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: dove into that. And I've listened to on a some

1009
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: podcast talking about his experiences and how he's made better

1010
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: and literally everyone that I know that have done those

1011
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: journeys have come out with a greater perspective if if

1012
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,360
Speaker 1: they did it right and if they had someone to

1013
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 1: kind of guide them along exactly exactly. It's very valuable

1014
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:17,720
Speaker 1: to people with PTSD. It's very valuable people that just

1015
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: are maybe kind of living in negative existence and they're

1016
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: not happy with it. Yeah. And so you had an

1017
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 1: ayahuasca journey. You didn't definitely watch, so you did it.

1018
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: You did it with Gawker for a while, and now

1019
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: you're at Outside online. You cover a lot of topics.

1020
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,560
Speaker 1: It was as as someone in the media space myself

1021
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,680
Speaker 1: and someone who's crafting a website that we want a

1022
01:01:34,680 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 1: lot of people to read. I look at your stuff

1023
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: and I'm like this, there's no there's a myriad of

1024
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: topics that's all over the place, at least within the

1025
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: lex account. It's it's seemingly all over the place, and

1026
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:49,080
Speaker 1: at the same time it hits on I think some

1027
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:53,040
Speaker 1: of the most and most important topics in the outdoors

1028
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: and hunting and even firearm ownership and gear, and I

1029
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: mean just go everywhere. So how do you how are

1030
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 1: you crafting your subject matter? I just sort of do

1031
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: over the funk I want every day. So it's whatever

1032
01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:07,280
Speaker 1: I'm interested in that taular today. Um So I have

1033
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: a really unique position outside They are really good employer

1034
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: and they let me just have total editorial freedom. So

1035
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: I just come up with stories that I want to

1036
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: tell that I think are important and what I really

1037
01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: try to do. I think that makes my stuff unique

1038
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: because I try to cast a very wide net and

1039
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,480
Speaker 1: try to make the kind of content that appeals to

1040
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: a mainstream leadership and get some interested and excited in

1041
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 1: what all of us do, whether that's hunting, whether that's

1042
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 1: mountain climbing or you know whatever, hiking, backpacking, and then

1043
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: I try to, like, you know, break down the barriers

1044
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: for them. So you have somebody who lives in New

1045
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: York or San Francisco that can come in and read

1046
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:40,880
Speaker 1: an article about hunting. Go oh, I didn't realize that

1047
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 1: hunting was cool. But how could I do that myself

1048
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 1: when I don't have a dad at hunts, I live

1049
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. How do I get out there? How

1050
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,120
Speaker 1: do I figure it out? Like make cons of that

1051
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: appeals to those people? A and then Be comes back

1052
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, you know you can do this too. Yeah,

1053
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: And that's something we're talking about before. There's a lot

1054
01:02:57,880 --> 01:02:59,880
Speaker 1: of discussion in this office and I'm sure every other

1055
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: atorial workshop that's out there about the term clickbait. We've

1056
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: I've been in digital media for over a decade and

1057
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: clickbait has been there the entire time. You know, we're

1058
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 1: talking about defining that. How do you define taking a

1059
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 1: topic that you know that you care about, you know

1060
01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:16,479
Speaker 1: has depth, and getting people in the door to read

1061
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: it without you know, without labeling your content. I mean clickbaits,

1062
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: this negative term. It gets thrown at journalists, um and

1063
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: it's just you know, journalism is under attack sort of

1064
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: nationwide and worldwide right now. There's a lot of insults

1065
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 1: about what we do. And I just see my job

1066
01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: as is trying to convey information to people, trying to

1067
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: tell a storage from our world, and it's just native

1068
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:38,800
Speaker 1: to that to want to make sure that people want

1069
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 1: to read that, that it's appealing and exciting and share able,

1070
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:44,240
Speaker 1: and it's just a good you know, to me, that's

1071
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 1: a good piece of content and good piece of contison.

1072
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: Something you just come in and forget about. It's something

1073
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: that's you have to share, that's compelling. It's like, oh

1074
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 1: my god, this is important. My friends need to read

1075
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 1: this too. Yeah. Are you ever drawn? Do you ever

1076
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,439
Speaker 1: doing long form work? Have you written? Oh? Yeah, yeah,

1077
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: I still do. I think I've probably known at this

1078
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: point for order stuff just because you know it's web

1079
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: and eyeballs. Um. But yeah, I mean, you know, I

1080
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: started in print, started really well respected print magazine in London. UM,

1081
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: wrote long form stories for that, and you know, I

1082
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: still right, probably two or three you know, five or

1083
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: six thousand word articles a month. Yeah. Do you how

1084
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: do you compare the values you know? For you as

1085
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 1: a writer and even maybe for the audience from from

1086
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,160
Speaker 1: that long form print stuff versus what you do it

1087
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:29,600
Speaker 1: and definitely wild that's that's you know, it's two times,

1088
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: what's like two times a week and it's pretty frequent. Yeah,

1089
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:33,480
Speaker 1: I try to do four or five articles a week,

1090
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 1: so it's a lot. That's it's definitely a whole time job.

1091
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 1: It's actually I actually write less now than I used to.

1092
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: When I own my own company, I was doing you know,

1093
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: I was certainly I did everything. They were like three

1094
01:04:43,240 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: or four of us, um, So you know, I was

1095
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: writing probably twelve thousand words today at that point, and

1096
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 1: now I'm probably writing twelve thousand words a week. So

1097
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: it's a lot calmer now and I'm probably producing, you know,

1098
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:55,560
Speaker 1: trying to focus on content. It's a little higher qualities,

1099
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:57,919
Speaker 1: even though we create shorter stuff, you know, we create

1100
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 1: news hits, you know, things like that. Trying to make

1101
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: sure every piece of content is something that I'm proud of,

1102
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 1: something that I want to and you know, really want

1103
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: to put out in the world, and it's important what

1104
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 1: are the values of that content? You know we talked

1105
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,520
Speaker 1: about earlier, like headlines and photos and those things like

1106
01:05:10,520 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: what are the values you'ven still in your content because,

1107
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: like you said, when you're turning, even though it's slower

1108
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:16,439
Speaker 1: than it was, it's still that's still a pretty quick pace.

1109
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 1: How do you kind of set that up to make

1110
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 1: sure each piece has what you wanted to have? You

1111
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 1: just in every piece, you just want to tell the

1112
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: truth and you want to help readers arrive at a

1113
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,040
Speaker 1: greater understanding of whatever you're talking about. So, you know,

1114
01:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 1: let's everybody, everybody listening to this. We all sort of

1115
01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: understand cars, right, so let's use that as an example. Okay,

1116
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: you can come in and say, you know car access

1117
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: better than car y. You know a lot of people

1118
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: just stop there. You know, I prefer the bumw M

1119
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:43,920
Speaker 1: three to the Mercedes CEO whatever because it's faster and

1120
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: I've always just seen, you know, instead of just saying that,

1121
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: explain why dive deep talk to the engineers trying to

1122
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: figure out what makes that in three crisper or more

1123
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,600
Speaker 1: pure or more communicative than the Mercedes equivalent. You know,

1124
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: how does that get there? How does that than not

1125
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: only how does it get there? Why would a driver

1126
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:05,520
Speaker 1: want that? Why would a driver need that? Why would

1127
01:06:05,520 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: they be interested in that? And In so doing, you're

1128
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:10,520
Speaker 1: just more deeply informing your audience. And that's certed. That's

1129
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: our job. Yeah, I mean, I gotta you know, we

1130
01:06:13,080 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: talk a lot about journalism on this podcast. We talk

1131
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: a lot of what we We interview a lot of

1132
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: authors and it's just something I've professionally interested in and

1133
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:21,680
Speaker 1: it's something that I'm trying to form a craft in.

1134
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: So let's briefly touch on, Like, where do you think

1135
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: journalists is? Right now? It's in the two like is

1136
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,240
Speaker 1: it doesn't even maybe it doesn't even really exist, like

1137
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 1: the concept as it used to. Yeah, it's what compare

1138
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 1: Walter Cronkite's time too. Now that that thing doesn't exist.

1139
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,960
Speaker 1: Trust the newsman really doesn't exist. It does maybe in

1140
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,200
Speaker 1: some I wish I wish that it did. I think

1141
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: that we are in this interesting time period where the

1142
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: truth is not the truth in some people's minds, and

1143
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: the truth is arguable and that's sort of a weird experience. Um,

1144
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: and we see that everywhere. This is not just political writing.

1145
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: This is which I do some of too. Um, this

1146
01:06:57,560 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: isn't everything. I got me a huge argument on Twitter

1147
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: with a reader of the other or day about about

1148
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,000
Speaker 1: cars again. I was not writing about my new Ford Ranger.

1149
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,440
Speaker 1: And you know, I've driven every car pretty much on

1150
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: sale in America, if not most places of the world,

1151
01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:10,840
Speaker 1: because I used to do that for a living. And

1152
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 1: I feel the Ranger is a better vehicle in Tacoma.

1153
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 1: And I can explain the reasons why. And he was

1154
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: arguing that, you know, I'm paid to say so, and

1155
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: I'm never paid to say anything in my life. I

1156
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: get paid to work for my readers, and it's it's

1157
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 1: weird that people don't understand that. Um, I've never any

1158
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: of the magazines are written for, newspapers are written for

1159
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 1: any of the videos that I've done anything ever had

1160
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: anybody from corporate come down and go, hey, man, you

1161
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:36,960
Speaker 1: know this needs to be a positive whatever about Ford.

1162
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: You know you need to create across these talking points

1163
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 1: that they're trying to advertise. It's never been that. I've

1164
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 1: always had the freedom to tell the truth, and I

1165
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: see if my responsibility of the journalists to do that

1166
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: for my readers. Yeah, that's rare, is it? I don't know,

1167
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 1: It seems like this is what we all do. I mean,

1168
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 1: we're all trying to do it. Yeah, I think doing

1169
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: it void of of corporate influences is really hard to

1170
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: do the funniest thing and not yeah we have it here,

1171
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 1: nobody comes and sits along on my podcast. I can

1172
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: say whatever I want, so things like that just just here.

1173
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 1: But that's always based on audience feedback. It's like, okay,

1174
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:09,920
Speaker 1: we can put all this aidence feedback. We think if

1175
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: you did this less, you get more of this, so like, oh,

1176
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: that's that's that's informative. I think part of it. I'm

1177
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,439
Speaker 1: just not a very good journalist. You know, I'm not

1178
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:21,000
Speaker 1: terribly employable. I'm lucky to have employer and outside sorta

1179
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: understands me and let's me do what I do. Um. Yeah,

1180
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: I mean I can imagine with a lot of people

1181
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 1: who care about that stuff and a lot of people,

1182
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: um that we always see only less corruption and less

1183
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 1: like hey, you know, an advertiser told me to do something,

1184
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: and more just like incompetence. Um. I see a lot

1185
01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:40,759
Speaker 1: of people working as journalists who just don't don't understand

1186
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:42,920
Speaker 1: what the funk they're talking about, and I get really

1187
01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: frustrated with that. And I think part of that is

1188
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:46,880
Speaker 1: this is not always the best paying career, so it

1189
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 1: tends to have younger people. You have a lot of

1190
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 1: people who are doing the doing the heavy lifting, and

1191
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 1: the guys you know what they're doing, are sitting upstairs,

1192
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: you know, calling shots and earning tons of money. Yeah. Yeah,

1193
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 1: and that's I mean, I've seen that so many times.

1194
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 1: And like you said, there's especially in the dig of age,

1195
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:02,720
Speaker 1: you can read one article and you can regurgitate that

1196
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,599
Speaker 1: and sound like an expert, you know. And I've always

1197
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:09,280
Speaker 1: I've always been drawn to more third person, like, let's

1198
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 1: just break down this issue from multiple angles that right

1199
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: of the things that that draw me in, how do

1200
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:16,240
Speaker 1: how do we achieve a greater understanding? And I think

1201
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:17,760
Speaker 1: part of this part of the burden on this So

1202
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of media out there now,

1203
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: there's so much, so much more than ever before, and

1204
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: part of this has the responsibility for consuming quality media

1205
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: has to go back to some of the consumers. You know,

1206
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, think about who you're reading.

1207
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:33,360
Speaker 1: Fine journalists you know, hopefully like me, that have a

1208
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: transparent history of working for their readers that you can trust.

1209
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: And we're out there, there's lots of us out there,

1210
01:09:39,760 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 1: you know, go listen to those guys don't go listen

1211
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:44,760
Speaker 1: to you know, Tucker Carlson well because then you know

1212
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 1: it's it's part of a there's a worldview issue that

1213
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: I have with it is especially like you're arguing a

1214
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,400
Speaker 1: guy with a guy Florida and Toyota. It goes to it,

1215
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:55,520
Speaker 1: there's a bigger thing than that that we're choosing our ideologies,

1216
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: we're choosing our path and we're staying in those lanes

1217
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 1: we're looking to be affirmed. I mean, there's plenty of

1218
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 1: journalistic quote unquote outlets that are just there to confirm

1219
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: one worldview, and and that's that is the literally the

1220
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 1: opposite of journalist. I just can't imagine being a journalist

1221
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: that does that because it just sounds so boring and limited,

1222
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 1: Like where's the fun in that? Like none of us

1223
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 1: are getting rich doing this is not the best paying career.

1224
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:20,719
Speaker 1: Um you've been fortunate to find a certain degree of success,

1225
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:23,639
Speaker 1: but it's like, you know, like I would be so

1226
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: bored every day if I just like I would just

1227
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:28,599
Speaker 1: go to something else. Here's what I started to do,

1228
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:31,439
Speaker 1: and I like, I listened a lot of MPR. I

1229
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: listened to a a lot of podcasts like Joe Rogans and

1230
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:35,160
Speaker 1: then find people through that, and then I've chased those

1231
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 1: rabbit holes and like I found ways where I feel

1232
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 1: real comfortable staying out of the mainstream media cycle and

1233
01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 1: in my own cycle that I've where I feel like

1234
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:45,720
Speaker 1: it's it's good and productive for me. But you know,

1235
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 1: every once in a while, I'll flick on CNN just

1236
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,720
Speaker 1: to check in, just to see if they're talking about,

1237
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:53,639
Speaker 1: you know, something valuable to me. They're never not, they

1238
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: never are, and I'll spend like five minutes there, and

1239
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,320
Speaker 1: it's always Trump. It's always just it's just, it's just

1240
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 1: stop Trump. It's unbelieved. I get it. He's a terrible

1241
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 1: president in our in our country's fucked right now. But

1242
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: like there's other stuff going on that we can talk about.

1243
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:09,479
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, I don't mind if that leads, I

1244
01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:11,640
Speaker 1: don't mind. You know, the president, the office of the

1245
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,520
Speaker 1: president is a very important thing in our country. Influences

1246
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: many many things, yes, but it's it's not so much

1247
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:20,759
Speaker 1: more and so and then I start to break down, Okay,

1248
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 1: from from the news desk there, what has to be

1249
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,640
Speaker 1: going on for those folks to think that this is okay?

1250
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 1: What has to what do they have to What are

1251
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:30,680
Speaker 1: their set of values? What are there? What are their

1252
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,679
Speaker 1: modus operunda to get them to think like that? How

1253
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: would they sit in their editorial meeting every day because

1254
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 1: I know they have one, and decide upon this every day.

1255
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 1: What is pushing him? You guys, what we're gonna talking

1256
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 1: about today? You know, we can talk about all these topics,

1257
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 1: but let's talk about Trust's reaffirm the same storyline every day?

1258
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 1: You think that, and it all just plays into Donald

1259
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,519
Speaker 1: Trump's own person too. Aside from that, Yes, it's crazy.

1260
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: You must be so boring. I think they're allay just

1261
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:57,280
Speaker 1: chasing celebrity. You think so? You know, Yeah, I don't.

1262
01:11:57,280 --> 01:11:59,040
Speaker 1: I'm not. I've listened to other people that posit on

1263
01:11:59,080 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: this and talk about this that smarter than I and

1264
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 1: I just wonder That's what I wonder about this, not

1265
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:06,599
Speaker 1: only the people involved, because I know these are all

1266
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: smart people. They wouldn't be they're intellectually driven people. There's

1267
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: no there's no way they would have gotten smarter than

1268
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: we are. Yeah, there's no they would. They wouldn't have

1269
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 1: got to that point if they weren't intellectually sound and

1270
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 1: could reason themselves into a good spot. But when they

1271
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 1: get there and they're making that two million dollars and

1272
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:23,920
Speaker 1: they go on TV every night and they're having the

1273
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: same conversation over and over and just like forwarding the

1274
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 1: same storyline, and it's same thing all Fox News, same

1275
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: thing there. You're just like you're a fearmonger. You're you're

1276
01:12:33,479 --> 01:12:35,760
Speaker 1: you're running the same track every day. You're like a

1277
01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 1: Nascar It's like a NASCAR race. Right turns, right terms.

1278
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 1: What are you scared today? It's it's Congress from New York. Yeah,

1279
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 1: it's like happening. Yeah, it sounds they've pushed us, They've

1280
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: pushed us to the polls. And then people in the

1281
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,760
Speaker 1: center looking around, like what do I do? What if

1282
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,280
Speaker 1: I a lot of things. I was talking to a

1283
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: buddy this week. I was like a lot of things.

1284
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 1: I think if you wanted to pig me as a

1285
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 1: left winger, you could just pick out the ten things

1286
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:02,760
Speaker 1: I've said or think that that probably a line with

1287
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:05,240
Speaker 1: that ideology, or you could pick out the ten things

1288
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 1: I've said or think that aligned with the Conservati are

1289
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 1: great examples, probably because there's probably probably all. Both have

1290
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: friends that consider like a lot of my friends think

1291
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 1: I'm terribly, terribly conservative. You know, I own guns, I

1292
01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:18,719
Speaker 1: love shooting, I love hunting, I do all this stuff,

1293
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 1: you know. I advocate for a secument rights, that kind

1294
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,680
Speaker 1: of thing. You know, I'm a terrible, terrible conservative. And

1295
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 1: then my other friends are like, you know, well, you

1296
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 1: support universal healthcare, social safety makes left this hipping left,

1297
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:33,880
Speaker 1: this snowflake. I get the same thing. Man, if you're

1298
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: if you're and and that's I think that's what the

1299
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 1: that's why this the vitriol is so dangerous. I just

1300
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 1: challenge all the people to fight. Yeah, it's just it's

1301
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:46,840
Speaker 1: only you. I'm forty one to know we should do

1302
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: it out. After this, I would just fight it out.

1303
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,160
Speaker 1: You like guns, but yeah, I mean I've I've you know,

1304
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:54,439
Speaker 1: I've been. You get in that sphere and you you

1305
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 1: you think, Well, I'd just like to have a conversation.

1306
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure where it's gonna end up. I'm not

1307
01:13:58,120 --> 01:13:59,760
Speaker 1: sure who's right or wrong. I would just like to

1308
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: have of let's let's have a discussion or a discussion,

1309
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 1: walk away friends and hopefully maybe learning from each other

1310
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 1: um or you know, at least just have a fun

1311
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: time having a beer and argue about something. Calling back

1312
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 1: that I just We just did a podcast with a

1313
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,600
Speaker 1: vegan and an animal rights guy back to back, and

1314
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 1: I've had most most part. I think people are you know,

1315
01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:18,840
Speaker 1: understand if you're gonna come here, you're gonna come from

1316
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 1: the conversation. You're not gonna come to kind of be

1317
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 1: affirmed in any one way. There were some people though,

1318
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,000
Speaker 1: that are like, why would you give that person a platform?

1319
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: You know that I knew this was coming, and it's okay,

1320
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: of course, why would you give that person a platform?

1321
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 1: Those aren't ideas that are relevant. I guess they are.

1322
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: They are somebody believes in them. Yeah, especially talking about

1323
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 1: this from a hunting perspective. You know, if we're gonna

1324
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: go out and change people's minds, we have to meet

1325
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 1: them where they are. We can't go to a vegan

1326
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 1: and say you're a dumbass. We have to say, okay,

1327
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 1: you know, we have some we have some ideologies that

1328
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,719
Speaker 1: are similar and we are trying to achieve similar things.

1329
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: You know, let's discuss this more reasonable perspective. Yeah, and

1330
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,679
Speaker 1: then if you if that was on Fox News, would

1331
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:55,880
Speaker 1: be and that guy in a little box shouting screen,

1332
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,000
Speaker 1: shouting each other, and we have five minutes to do it.

1333
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:00,639
Speaker 1: That's just not an effective way to communicate. It's not communication.

1334
01:15:00,680 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 1: I'll actually have a story about this if it's okay

1335
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: if I tell it. So back when the whole suss

1336
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: of the Lion thing was going on, He's lived five

1337
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,799
Speaker 1: blocks in the CNN studio um in l A. And

1338
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 1: you know, I was. I was sort of there designated

1339
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 1: like a fuck last minute, we need an animal guy

1340
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 1: or like a nature guy, like who the fucking l

1341
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 1: I understands that ship called West and so I would

1342
01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:20,479
Speaker 1: like rushing, get a haircut, like a spray fake tan,

1343
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:22,719
Speaker 1: go on CNN and get yelled at about lion hunting.

1344
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:27,400
Speaker 1: You just like it. And I was on there once

1345
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:30,720
Speaker 1: talking about Walter Palmer and Sussa the Lion, and I was,

1346
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,759
Speaker 1: you know, making just a very factual argument that regardless

1347
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 1: of the worlds of it, hunters are what pays for

1348
01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:37,760
Speaker 1: animal conservation in Africa and if we take that away

1349
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:39,679
Speaker 1: then and there's not gonna be animal conservation in Africa

1350
01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:42,280
Speaker 1: because nobody else is funding it. And some woman out

1351
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,560
Speaker 1: of gas was like, you're wrong, You're wrong, and I

1352
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 1: was like, well, very simply, what have you done for

1353
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 1: animal conservation that you're arguing that Walter Palmer's model for

1354
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 1: this isn't invalid, and he's like, I'm a v good

1355
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:55,559
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, so you're not listening to what

1356
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 1: I'm saying and you don't understand animal conservation, I'd like

1357
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: to give you a hung right now. It's I'm sorry.

1358
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:02,840
Speaker 1: So you've been in Yeah, you've been in there like

1359
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:06,160
Speaker 1: you've seen Yeah, that's it's it's those things we sit

1360
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 1: around here, and when one of those things pops up nowadays,

1361
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 1: which they invariably do, like that does really fun trophy score.

1362
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:13,839
Speaker 1: We had to make that because we get real stressed

1363
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 1: out about these situations. There was the one here recently

1364
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,040
Speaker 1: where there was a couple kissing over a deadline. I

1365
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: believe it was, you know, and so that those things

1366
01:16:20,400 --> 01:16:22,720
Speaker 1: and definitely pop up, and there's there again as an

1367
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 1: example of what I'm talking about with the Trump storyline.

1368
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:27,760
Speaker 1: This is a storyline that has been picked up by

1369
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,599
Speaker 1: mainstream media. They know it works, they know it fires

1370
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 1: people up on both sides. They they know it creates

1371
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,200
Speaker 1: a real disparate debate with people very far away, and

1372
01:16:36,240 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 1: the way they think and see it, then it's easy

1373
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: to put them in two boxes and let them go. Yeah.

1374
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 1: And it's also it's sort of like watching watching a

1375
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:43,840
Speaker 1: car crash. You can't look away. You can't look away.

1376
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 1: Everything's just so horrible. Made a good point, but that

1377
01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:51,360
Speaker 1: lady is crazy and she only eats vegetables. Yeah, I'm

1378
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:53,800
Speaker 1: not I'm not sure what to think about this. I'm

1379
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 1: not learning anything, but I know I'm angry, but I'm

1380
01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 1: angry at one of them. Please. So there's I was

1381
01:17:01,640 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 1: thinking about and talking about Outside Magazine and just just

1382
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 1: the fact that Outside online and Outside magazine is so

1383
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:11,080
Speaker 1: different from It's so different in the way that it's

1384
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 1: presented than say the meat either is or say Peterson

1385
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 1: Sunning magazine or some endemic hunting magazine. There's so many

1386
01:17:17,200 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 1: differences there in the way that the information is presented.

1387
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:22,640
Speaker 1: You're in a unique position to kind of understand the

1388
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:25,600
Speaker 1: ins and outs of and both like lifestyle mends, you know,

1389
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,240
Speaker 1: real print journalism, like you've kind of seen it through

1390
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 1: all those different prisms. You know that. I know, I

1391
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:33,479
Speaker 1: think our our our guy, Steve Rinella has written for

1392
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 1: Outside all all the time, and he'll come in and

1393
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 1: be like, listen, guys Outside Magazine like they're one of us.

1394
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 1: They get it. I've I know these guys and and

1395
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 1: totally agree, but there is it's it's presented differently. There's

1396
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 1: a different way, different lens with which a lot of

1397
01:17:48,479 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 1: this information is presented. So I think you're in a

1398
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:54,679
Speaker 1: good spot to kind of see you know, traditional outdoor

1399
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 1: hunting media or just say hunting media, and then then

1400
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:00,599
Speaker 1: what's traditionally been a spouse by the outdoor creation set.

1401
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:02,519
Speaker 1: I've always thought it. It's funny because you know, we

1402
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 1: we are industries talk about each other very different work

1403
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 1: for outside. So I'm hike and bike, um, and you

1404
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 1: guys are hooking bullet and we both sort of sort

1405
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:12,479
Speaker 1: of like disrespect each other. Yes, and it's it's it's

1406
01:18:12,479 --> 01:18:15,920
Speaker 1: weird and necessary. Um, you know, the outdoors shouldn't be

1407
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,920
Speaker 1: a polarized environment. We all enjoy it. Mountain bikers don't

1408
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 1: need to get mad when they see a hunter. Hunters

1409
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,160
Speaker 1: don't need to get mad and they see mountain bikers.

1410
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 1: I just see, you know, people are enjoying the outdoors.

1411
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 1: They they're on my side, right that somebody who's going

1412
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:29,600
Speaker 1: to vote our interests. Um, that's somebody who's you know,

1413
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:33,360
Speaker 1: funding these wild places. Obviously different funding mechanisms here, and

1414
01:18:33,479 --> 01:18:37,080
Speaker 1: one side of this has disproportioned impact, and you know,

1415
01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 1: but hopefully that can change, and hopefully we can engage

1416
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:40,760
Speaker 1: people in a conversation. But I want to talk about that.

1417
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:42,439
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up, but we didn't meet

1418
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 1: people where they are, and so being disrespectful and looking

1419
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 1: down on people and not understanding people's perspectives is just

1420
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:50,680
Speaker 1: doesn't get anybody anywhere. So what do you what do

1421
01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 1: you think? I know, there's no magic bullet to kind

1422
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 1: of bring these groups together, but there there is. There's

1423
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:58,120
Speaker 1: a lot of examples, real tangible examples of kind of

1424
01:18:58,160 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 1: how these two different things are presented. One of them

1425
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:03,680
Speaker 1: is the national monuments. That's one that always I come

1426
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:06,680
Speaker 1: back to. So, how would you like take you take

1427
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 1: national monuments? So just to just to call it quickly, Patagonia,

1428
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 1: who recently has embraced, you know, backhunch hunters and anglers

1429
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:17,680
Speaker 1: and evarts showing up there and saying these people have

1430
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:21,080
Speaker 1: a credible voice to me. But at the you know

1431
01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 1: the time of Bears, Ears and Grand Staircase Escalante and

1432
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: things like that, they're saying the president stole your land.

1433
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 1: There's people in the hunting world that are espousing the

1434
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:36,280
Speaker 1: president gave you access back to your land, Like these

1435
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:41,439
Speaker 1: disparate clearly both are lying, yes, Like the disinformation is

1436
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:44,599
Speaker 1: so clear on both sides. But I think that's how

1437
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 1: that's it's a nice analogy for kind of how we

1438
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 1: see each other, you know, within within out the reckon hunting.

1439
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:52,400
Speaker 1: So like you've written about it, how do you look

1440
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: at is that a good analogy for the way that

1441
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:57,799
Speaker 1: these two communities approached these things. There's there's some fundamental

1442
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 1: differences there, um, and you get back to to motivations. UM.

1443
01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 1: So public lands obviously a very large topic, and we

1444
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: can't cover it all in this or ever. You know,

1445
01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 1: we get sitting here for the next four years not

1446
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:10,679
Speaker 1: cover at all public lands. Uh As somebody who has

1447
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:12,720
Speaker 1: grown up abroad, um, has spent a lot of time

1448
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 1: traveling the world. Public lands make America unique. Other places

1449
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:18,679
Speaker 1: do not have hunting and fishing like we have hunting

1450
01:20:18,720 --> 01:20:20,679
Speaker 1: and fishing, or any outdoor recreation like we have about

1451
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:24,519
Speaker 1: their recreation. All these American traditions, everything that makes our

1452
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:27,120
Speaker 1: country great, in my opinion, is based on our history

1453
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:29,600
Speaker 1: of public lands were totally unique, and we're totally exceptional.

1454
01:20:29,640 --> 01:20:31,439
Speaker 1: America is not very exceptional in a lot of ways.

1455
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:34,559
Speaker 1: America's very exceptional in our worlderness, it's it's a brief,

1456
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:37,280
Speaker 1: it's a given, you know, given the history of our company,

1457
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:40,240
Speaker 1: it's our country. It's very brief, but it's been it's

1458
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 1: been so steadfast and its effectiveness. Yes, I grew up

1459
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and my dad, as you did, as

1460
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:48,360
Speaker 1: probably most of these readers did, because we had public lands.

1461
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:50,799
Speaker 1: I am who I am because of public lands. America

1462
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: is what it is. Because we have public lands. Anybody

1463
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 1: working to protect those public lands is our ally. Anybody

1464
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,559
Speaker 1: working to steal those public lands is our enemy. People

1465
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:03,519
Speaker 1: are arguing on the more liberal side of things, and

1466
01:21:04,120 --> 01:21:07,840
Speaker 1: especially particularly about national monuments, saying the President stole your land.

1467
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a you know, exaggerated arguments.

1468
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,120
Speaker 1: You know, there's obviously been nuance to this, but that

1469
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:18,600
Speaker 1: message is honestly intended to achieve stuff that's aligned with

1470
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,439
Speaker 1: our interests and the interests of the American people. People

1471
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 1: arguing for land transfers for land sales that are trying

1472
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 1: to steal our lands are our enemies. They are trying

1473
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:34,040
Speaker 1: to take away our birthright as Americans, right, So deception

1474
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:39,559
Speaker 1: around the public lands transfer, arguing this is not a theft,

1475
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:41,519
Speaker 1: that this is not a sale, this is in our interest,

1476
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 1: are lying. They are enemies and we should all go

1477
01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: kick their ass. I agree, I mean, I agree, I

1478
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:50,760
Speaker 1: just I you know, I said on the board of

1479
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 1: BH back on trainers and anglers, and they asked me

1480
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,719
Speaker 1: when I joined or when they asked me to volunteer,

1481
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:57,960
Speaker 1: I said absolutely, and they said why is because of

1482
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 1: my son? Because of my son, Because I I feel

1483
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:05,280
Speaker 1: I've lived in places where there weren't public lands at

1484
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 1: my you know, at my fingertips, and I have lived

1485
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:10,840
Speaker 1: in places including where I'm at right now, where they are,

1486
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:13,640
Speaker 1: and I can tell you the feeling of waking up

1487
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:17,520
Speaker 1: in the morning is completely different. It changes your life.

1488
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:19,800
Speaker 1: So I'm not I'm not saying everybody has to go

1489
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:22,599
Speaker 1: that way. I'm just saying, you know, and we've had

1490
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: some recent discussions about public versus private and some of

1491
01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,920
Speaker 1: those issues within the hunting world, which is like, no

1492
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 1: matter what, if we expand access and we create more

1493
01:22:34,280 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: protected public lands, that's for everyone. Yes, whether you decide

1494
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:39,640
Speaker 1: to use it or not is completely up to you,

1495
01:22:39,640 --> 01:22:41,160
Speaker 1: and you have the right to do whatever you'd like.

1496
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 1: You can stay in Florida or you can drive to Colorado.

1497
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. And so it's it's universal. And I

1498
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 1: think the issue, when it's politicized in the way that

1499
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:52,360
Speaker 1: it has been, is what disappoints me because it is

1500
01:22:52,840 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 1: I always make fun of the public land movements is

1501
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:58,599
Speaker 1: like apple pie, bald eagles, public lands. But it's true,

1502
01:22:58,760 --> 01:23:01,080
Speaker 1: it is. I can't think a thing more American than

1503
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 1: public lands. And yeah, you go back to other things.

1504
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 1: Our country isn't about, you know, racism, or country isn't

1505
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:11,560
Speaker 1: about you know whatever. It's about going hunting, fishing and

1506
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:14,559
Speaker 1: camp in, hanging out outdoors. And you know we're we're

1507
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:16,759
Speaker 1: going to lose that even if it just starts taking

1508
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: place incrementally. You know, your son might have fewer places

1509
01:23:19,520 --> 01:23:21,640
Speaker 1: to camp, your grandson might have even fewer, and your

1510
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:23,880
Speaker 1: great grehant son might not have any. And we can

1511
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:25,640
Speaker 1: stop that now. Yeah, And there's there's a couple of things.

1512
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:27,120
Speaker 1: There's a couple of threads to pull on here. I'd

1513
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:29,439
Speaker 1: like to get your opinion on the first one I

1514
01:23:29,479 --> 01:23:33,919
Speaker 1: think is is the American like in the American ideal

1515
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:37,760
Speaker 1: build into like manifest destiny is Homesteading is going out

1516
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 1: and picking a parcel of land and calling it yours.

1517
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:43,320
Speaker 1: Used to be forty acres in the mule. Now it's

1518
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:45,840
Speaker 1: do you have enough money to afford your own land?

1519
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:50,000
Speaker 1: And so we're we're talking about I mean, there's something

1520
01:23:50,040 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 1: that that tugs at the American ideal now and some

1521
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:55,640
Speaker 1: people would argue, not me, but others would argue, you

1522
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 1: got Centator Mike Lee out there and Utah arguing he's

1523
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:01,759
Speaker 1: gonna pass through Act. Right, he's talking about the American

1524
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 1: ideal of going out finding land and persons again and

1525
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:07,960
Speaker 1: making it your own. That's an American ideal. I would

1526
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:11,080
Speaker 1: agree with that. But what he's doing then it's twisting

1527
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:15,760
Speaker 1: that ideology to fit his needs. He's just using that.

1528
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,000
Speaker 1: It's just it's just a big lie um. The people

1529
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: that benefit from public lands being sold are not a

1530
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:23,680
Speaker 1: working class family that wants to build a cabin. Right

1531
01:24:24,120 --> 01:24:26,400
Speaker 1: that you can do that right now, you need to

1532
01:24:26,400 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 1: get to a a remote part of the country, probably Alaska.

1533
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:30,559
Speaker 1: You're gonna have private land. Right. The people that are

1534
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:32,640
Speaker 1: taking our public land, that are working to steal it

1535
01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: from us are billionaires and they're not trwing homestead yeah. Argument,

1536
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:42,759
Speaker 1: any argument that like, oh, let's just open up Montana

1537
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:44,880
Speaker 1: to private purchases. It's not going to be you and

1538
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:47,840
Speaker 1: I buying it. It's going to be you know, the

1539
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:51,240
Speaker 1: Wilkes brothers and the Coach brothers and Exxon and you know,

1540
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:52,760
Speaker 1: people like that, and they're gonna take it from us.

1541
01:24:52,760 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: We're never gonna see it again. They're gonna destroy it.

1542
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,080
Speaker 1: We're not gonna have any more dear that simple. Yeah,

1543
01:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,280
Speaker 1: And that's the divide. The other thing I would say,

1544
01:24:59,720 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 1: so I I think it's part of what we're talking

1545
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:05,000
Speaker 1: about spins back into like the vitriol and the separationist

1546
01:25:05,320 --> 01:25:09,280
Speaker 1: language of our two poles, of our right and our last.

1547
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 1: However you describe those two things like the language that

1548
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:14,800
Speaker 1: that's what's disappointing to me about the language on both

1549
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 1: sides around something like the National monuments. But it comes out,

1550
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:21,920
Speaker 1: it rises from from wherever it lays dormant when every

1551
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:25,640
Speaker 1: big political, you know, issue comes up, and it's like this,

1552
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:27,920
Speaker 1: there's two things we hold and I'm sure you would

1553
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 1: agree public lands is an American ideal and the valuing

1554
01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 1: our wild life. While not a long last dame, it's

1555
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:35,800
Speaker 1: been going for about a century and can always value it,

1556
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 1: but we were sure ship do now, all of us,

1557
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 1: whether you're liberal, Democrat, vegan hunter, you're like, you see

1558
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 1: there's herd of elk, You're like, I wish they would

1559
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 1: stay there, right, And we're just all thinking of different

1560
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 1: ways we can all allow that, we can all agree

1561
01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 1: on that. And the thing is like, there's not really

1562
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,639
Speaker 1: better ways to get there than what we have right now.

1563
01:25:56,040 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 1: We have the world's best, most proven and most effective

1564
01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 1: wildlife concert Asian model that's ever existed. Arguing that there's

1565
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:04,639
Speaker 1: other ways to do this, arguing that should be conducted

1566
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 1: in private hands, it's just this works, you know, it

1567
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:10,479
Speaker 1: needs a little more funding. We need to sort of

1568
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 1: maybe change from funding the horses around that were like

1569
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 1: totally hunters for it. But that should not be that

1570
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:17,439
Speaker 1: difficult to do, and we need to focus on certain

1571
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:21,200
Speaker 1: results based solutions for that, not wild ideas that involved

1572
01:26:21,200 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: giving all our more stakeholders rather than more stakeholders more. Right,

1573
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,400
Speaker 1: because we're all in this together, and that's your point.

1574
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 1: Our North American mile conservation is as effective as there

1575
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:36,720
Speaker 1: is in the world. There's many ways to describe that.

1576
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 1: And if you're listening to this and you need a

1577
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 1: few ways. It's not hard Like there's more mallard ducks

1578
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:44,519
Speaker 1: than there there ever has been. There's more white tailed

1579
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:46,840
Speaker 1: deer that ever has been. There's more black bear right

1580
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 1: now than there were when white people came to this continent.

1581
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 1: We're doing a good job, and there's successful way. More

1582
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:53,920
Speaker 1: of US's way, more of us is way more agriculture,

1583
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:57,320
Speaker 1: is way more pollution. You know, animal population should only

1584
01:26:57,320 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: be trending down right, just three twenty nine million people

1585
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 1: in this country. Animal population should not be where they

1586
01:27:03,840 --> 01:27:05,880
Speaker 1: are now, and they would not be if our current

1587
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:09,040
Speaker 1: model of conservation was not as successful and proven and

1588
01:27:09,080 --> 01:27:11,040
Speaker 1: wonderful as it is. And anybody trying to take that

1589
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:13,439
Speaker 1: away to argue against it as an asshole, all right,

1590
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 1: we'll establish that. And we aren't drinking beer. I like

1591
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:22,200
Speaker 1: to um. Now. Now you're in a position you specifically,

1592
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,600
Speaker 1: and I think I am and other other folks in

1593
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 1: this building are to speak on that fact that. Okay,

1594
01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:31,840
Speaker 1: the fact, the fact of the matter is, and you've

1595
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 1: written about this, written about the duck stamp, and you've

1596
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 1: written on outside online about conservation funding and the way

1597
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:40,879
Speaker 1: it's currently modeled. You we are, we're in a situation

1598
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,000
Speaker 1: where there's a lot of hikers and bikers, there's a

1599
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:46,520
Speaker 1: lot of people on out or wreck crowd. The conservation

1600
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 1: is buzzword. Everybody's talking about climate change, we're talking about

1601
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:52,800
Speaker 1: healthy ecosystems. Everybody's talking about more access to places to

1602
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 1: go and recreate. All that is great, there's a gap.

1603
01:27:55,760 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 1: There's a gap in understanding. I believe you tell me

1604
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,920
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. So how do you describe that gap

1605
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:04,160
Speaker 1: and understanding of how we currently fund conservation? So a

1606
01:28:04,920 --> 01:28:08,519
Speaker 1: nobody but basically listeners to this podcast understands how conservation

1607
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 1: is funded das fast. Majority of Americans have no idea

1608
01:28:12,120 --> 01:28:14,799
Speaker 1: that taxing taxes on hunting equipment pay for animal conservation.

1609
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,080
Speaker 1: They just need we're a bunch of bloodthirsty rednecks. We

1610
01:28:17,160 --> 01:28:20,639
Speaker 1: know which we are. But that's another story. UM So,

1611
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:23,960
Speaker 1: I think the first, you know, step in changing this

1612
01:28:24,120 --> 01:28:27,160
Speaker 1: and making this uh, making funding a little more broad

1613
01:28:27,240 --> 01:28:30,200
Speaker 1: and getting more stakeholders is just education, like, hey, this

1614
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: is what's paying for this right now, And maybe that

1615
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:33,880
Speaker 1: just encourages somebody to go by duck stamp, or maybe

1616
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 1: encourages might just understand the issue, understand what's going on here.

1617
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 1: Um there's been a lot of talk about like a

1618
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: backpack tax, right or mountain bike tax i. Initially, you know,

1619
01:28:45,240 --> 01:28:46,439
Speaker 1: you hear that on the SERVERCE like, oh, that's a

1620
01:28:46,439 --> 01:28:48,680
Speaker 1: great idea. We should we should spread the burden of

1621
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:52,840
Speaker 1: this across all outdoor users, not just hunters. Um. The

1622
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:54,920
Speaker 1: more I've learned about that, the more I've seen that's

1623
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:58,760
Speaker 1: possibly flawed. Umbe it's very easy to say, like, you know,

1624
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:01,880
Speaker 1: if you're buying guns, if you're buying m o um,

1625
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:04,240
Speaker 1: you know at some point you're contributing to hunting. Right,

1626
01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:07,120
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to say a backpack is for an

1627
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:09,880
Speaker 1: outdoor person. What if it's for um, a poor kid

1628
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:12,439
Speaker 1: in the city just trying to go to school? Uh,

1629
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:14,800
Speaker 1: where do you draw that line? And it just ends

1630
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:16,719
Speaker 1: up in this giant mess of like you know, somebody

1631
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 1: that's going to go, well, that backpack has a waste

1632
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:20,840
Speaker 1: belt and blah blah blah blah, and it just it

1633
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:24,160
Speaker 1: just gets really complicated. It doesn't really benefit anybody. And

1634
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:26,880
Speaker 1: so the solution to funding um and this is such

1635
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:31,040
Speaker 1: an amorphous, weird answer, but it's just um taxes with

1636
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 1: very broad basis, right, and voter voter supported measures and

1637
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:38,920
Speaker 1: you're seeing that happen in Georgia. Um, there's stuff we

1638
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:40,679
Speaker 1: can do where it's just hey, you know, let's choose

1639
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:44,519
Speaker 1: the tax everybody a little bit and you know the

1640
01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:46,600
Speaker 1: burden will be so small that we're funding this is

1641
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 1: the funding is sustainable. Everybody becomes a stakeholder and that's

1642
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 1: sort of the way forward. Here's broad voter backed tax measures. Right,

1643
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:55,719
Speaker 1: so you know, just to be clear, the Outdoor Industry

1644
01:29:55,720 --> 01:30:01,240
Speaker 1: Association says that it's an eight seven billion dollar yes enterprise,

1645
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:03,919
Speaker 1: which is you know, so we're calling out THEO recreation

1646
01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:06,960
Speaker 1: seven point six million jobs. Yes, it's a big I mean,

1647
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: it's got they they got a big hammer to swing politically,

1648
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:13,160
Speaker 1: and I've written a lot about that, and you know,

1649
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,960
Speaker 1: it's a huge industry, but it's you know, it's thousands

1650
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 1: of mom and pops. Um, you started thinking about, like

1651
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:21,720
Speaker 1: the biggest, most influential, richest dude in the outdoor reck

1652
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 1: industry is of Entreneard and he has a lot of

1653
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 1: political weight and he uses it. There's not many other

1654
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:29,080
Speaker 1: people like him. You compare that to like cars, and

1655
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:33,040
Speaker 1: it's like Ford and Chevy and Chrysler and they've been

1656
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:35,519
Speaker 1: doing this for a hundred years and we're just sort

1657
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 1: of now, you know, like Cam from NEMO going like, oh,

1658
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:41,480
Speaker 1: I should join this thing and go to Congress and testify.

1659
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 1: And you know, Cam's company probably I don't know how

1660
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: much Earmans, but you know, in comparison, very very smaller

1661
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:50,679
Speaker 1: than a major industrial players bringing this for a hundred years.

1662
01:30:50,640 --> 01:30:52,599
Speaker 1: We're just we're just learning how to lobby, we're just

1663
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:55,400
Speaker 1: learning how these measures passed, and we're doing a pretty

1664
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:57,320
Speaker 1: good job so far. But this is like a five

1665
01:30:57,400 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 1: year old endeavor. Yeah, well let's back. Let's back up

1666
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:05,040
Speaker 1: to Pittman Robertson and Daniel Johnson. The things listeners, this

1667
01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 1: podcast your regulation and you'll have heard lots and lots

1668
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:08,479
Speaker 1: about it, but we'll cover it again kind of what

1669
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:11,519
Speaker 1: it is and what it does. These are excise taxes

1670
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:17,000
Speaker 1: that are levied against in the situation for Pittman Robertson guns, ammunition, bows, arrows,

1671
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 1: things of that nature, hunting equipment of all kinds, um

1672
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 1: and in the Danel Johnson it's tackle rods, anything that

1673
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:27,519
Speaker 1: is related to fishing. These moneys are taken. There's I

1674
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:32,240
Speaker 1: believe it's always get that number lem percent excise tax

1675
01:31:32,520 --> 01:31:34,960
Speaker 1: that's then sent to sent a lot of places. It

1676
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:37,280
Speaker 1: goes to the treasury, it goes into part the Sectary

1677
01:31:37,280 --> 01:31:39,519
Speaker 1: of Interier, Department of Interior, and that it's funneled to

1678
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:43,559
Speaker 1: the states through an equation. That equation says, Okay, how

1679
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:46,519
Speaker 1: many hunters do you have versus how many? I think

1680
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:50,160
Speaker 1: it's licensed sales versus um I know you can probably

1681
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:54,880
Speaker 1: help me out with. There's there's like there's three different

1682
01:31:54,960 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 1: specific equations, and it goes to fun a lot of

1683
01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:00,720
Speaker 1: things like habitat. Take Texas for example, there's not a

1684
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 1: whole lot of public lands and access projects that can

1685
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:05,560
Speaker 1: go to fund so it goes to fun things like

1686
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:09,920
Speaker 1: the state will go and do landowner um initiation where

1687
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: they're flood flooding rice paddies in the winter for waterfoul

1688
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 1: habitat and every and there's some of the money that's

1689
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:17,640
Speaker 1: set aside for hunter education and different things like that

1690
01:32:17,680 --> 01:32:21,439
Speaker 1: in each state, and each state will and the beauty

1691
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:23,040
Speaker 1: of at the end of the day, the beauty of

1692
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 1: this is if this money, along with license sales and

1693
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:29,639
Speaker 1: tag fees, isn't spent on what it's appropriated towards, which

1694
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 1: is where that money came from, the communities of hunters

1695
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:35,800
Speaker 1: and fishermen, and you're talking about state wildlife agencies, roughly

1696
01:32:35,840 --> 01:32:40,880
Speaker 1: sixty I've seen six of state agency funding is coming

1697
01:32:40,920 --> 01:32:43,640
Speaker 1: from our American system of conservation funding. So we have

1698
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:46,800
Speaker 1: that that's been going on since ninety six. That was

1699
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:49,599
Speaker 1: Frankly D. Rhodes Avelt called a bunch of people together

1700
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:51,880
Speaker 1: and said, how we're gonna solve this. They figured this out,

1701
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:55,080
Speaker 1: they passed, they took, and the sixting excise tax on

1702
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:58,479
Speaker 1: guns and the ammunition. They pushed it towards this stuff.

1703
01:32:59,160 --> 01:33:02,360
Speaker 1: And so now today, roughly eighty years later or whatever

1704
01:33:02,360 --> 01:33:07,559
Speaker 1: the number is, it's still working, but there's less hunters

1705
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:10,599
Speaker 1: hunter participant rat or decreasing, so there's less money. And also,

1706
01:33:10,640 --> 01:33:13,120
Speaker 1: you know, we're looking at a tax that's on guns

1707
01:33:13,120 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 1: and ammo largely right, and a lot of people buying

1708
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:19,400
Speaker 1: guns and ammo are not necessarily participating in hunting, so

1709
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:21,760
Speaker 1: the tax is kind of weird in that way. And

1710
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:25,559
Speaker 1: then by pegging wildlife conservation to something that's subject to

1711
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:28,320
Speaker 1: such a large national debate right now and could be

1712
01:33:28,360 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 1: subject to some political changes and stuff in the future,

1713
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:35,200
Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. Um, you know, be nice to

1714
01:33:35,200 --> 01:33:38,800
Speaker 1: find a more stable and broad source of funding that

1715
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:41,880
Speaker 1: came from all Americans who enjoyed the outdoors, not just

1716
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 1: the guys who go hunting. Absolutely, and I think when you, yeah,

1717
01:33:44,439 --> 01:33:46,240
Speaker 1: if you were to, if you were to take a

1718
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:48,040
Speaker 1: step back from min and I think some I think

1719
01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 1: some hunters and the English a little bit scared that

1720
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:53,640
Speaker 1: if you let other stakeholders into the game, things might change, right,

1721
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:56,400
Speaker 1: you lose some right, and that's probably legitimate. That's probably

1722
01:33:56,439 --> 01:33:58,280
Speaker 1: a legitimate way to look at that. That is probably

1723
01:33:58,280 --> 01:33:59,840
Speaker 1: a little scary. But at the same time, you really

1724
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:01,960
Speaker 1: care about the resource, you have to you have to

1725
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:04,880
Speaker 1: look at seven million dollars and be like, we gotta

1726
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:07,120
Speaker 1: get we got the same we gotta get the same

1727
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:10,519
Speaker 1: kind of flesh that's coming from the roughly twelve million hunters. Yes,

1728
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:13,519
Speaker 1: have to. Yes, And as you said, you're tacking on.

1729
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:15,960
Speaker 1: If you're a tactical guy. You're buying a RS, you're

1730
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:18,599
Speaker 1: buying that, you're buying two to three rounds and at

1731
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:21,439
Speaker 1: a nice pace, you're shooting three gun matches. That money

1732
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 1: is going straight back to animal conservation. Animal thank you.

1733
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:28,719
Speaker 1: You probably weren't thinking that. It's also not on your receipt.

1734
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:33,040
Speaker 1: It's paid by the manufacturer, and so you'd never see it.

1735
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:35,400
Speaker 1: It's not listed in the state game rigs for any

1736
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:37,559
Speaker 1: state that I've ever seen. Um, and I've done some

1737
01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:40,800
Speaker 1: checking on that. It's not it's not detailed. You almost

1738
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:42,559
Speaker 1: have to seek out this information if it wasn't for

1739
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:45,680
Speaker 1: sort of meat eater pushing this message so hard. I

1740
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 1: don't think even the hunting meeting doesn't really talk about this.

1741
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 1: You know what challenged me is we had Backcau was

1742
01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:51,920
Speaker 1: working at Yet. We had a meeting with pataging you

1743
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,800
Speaker 1: about partnering on a public LANs film and b h

1744
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 1: A was also in that meeting, and I was sitting

1745
01:34:57,080 --> 01:34:58,559
Speaker 1: with some folks that worked at Patago, and you know,

1746
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about this. Probably you've probably experienced this

1747
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:04,200
Speaker 1: a lot, and with your audience, and like within the industry,

1748
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 1: they're asking questions about, Okay, how about this money, what

1749
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:09,840
Speaker 1: about this funny? What about this you guys say you

1750
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 1: fun stuff? Tell me all about it. You should know

1751
01:35:11,920 --> 01:35:14,160
Speaker 1: about it, you're involved in it. And I was, ah,

1752
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:17,120
Speaker 1: and I've I've read a lot of it, and I

1753
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:20,200
Speaker 1: still fumbled through most of the details. It's very complicated.

1754
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:24,639
Speaker 1: And so this is probably six five, six years ago,

1755
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:26,120
Speaker 1: and I had to sit back and go, I don't

1756
01:35:26,120 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 1: know anything about this. I say things like conservation and

1757
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 1: that we fund conservation, and I tried out the party lines,

1758
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:35,160
Speaker 1: but I know about the real facts here, and they're

1759
01:35:35,200 --> 01:35:37,519
Speaker 1: they're complicated enough. Also, you know, we want to see

1760
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:38,920
Speaker 1: you a cheat, cheat in front of us. So about this,

1761
01:35:38,960 --> 01:35:40,760
Speaker 1: because we're sitting here something over stuff right now with

1762
01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:43,040
Speaker 1: you and I write about this for our living. Um,

1763
01:35:43,960 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 1: you know you Yeah, it's it's complicated. There's no one

1764
01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:49,920
Speaker 1: source of information that's really comprehensive because it is so deep.

1765
01:35:50,479 --> 01:35:53,479
Speaker 1: It would be really nice to have just like a campaign,

1766
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:55,759
Speaker 1: you know, on billboards and on the internet and stuff,

1767
01:35:55,800 --> 01:35:58,840
Speaker 1: just saying hey, hunters paid for conservation. Here's how it works. Yeah.

1768
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:00,360
Speaker 1: And so once we get there, once we all can

1769
01:36:00,479 --> 01:36:03,519
Speaker 1: agree that this is happening. It's it's a model that's

1770
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 1: worked over decades. We've we've of course added to it

1771
01:36:05,960 --> 01:36:09,000
Speaker 1: with Dingel Johnson. We've added to it when we added

1772
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:12,519
Speaker 1: bows and and you know, other hunting gear into the

1773
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:15,599
Speaker 1: Pittman Robertson mix. We've added to those exercise taxes. When

1774
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:17,360
Speaker 1: you actually look at and I have looked at kind

1775
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:19,920
Speaker 1: of how the money gets where it needs to go.

1776
01:36:20,160 --> 01:36:23,160
Speaker 1: It's I mean it's pretty it's pretty tight for a

1777
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:28,000
Speaker 1: for a government run you know, taxpayer funded, government run system.

1778
01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:30,360
Speaker 1: It's pretty damn tight. Yeah. It works well, and it

1779
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:32,360
Speaker 1: works really well. I mean this is there's people whose

1780
01:36:32,479 --> 01:36:34,240
Speaker 1: entire jobs is to you know, start of watch where

1781
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 1: this money goes. Um, it's all spent very effectively. This

1782
01:36:38,080 --> 01:36:39,760
Speaker 1: is I mean, the system is solid. It is not

1783
01:36:39,800 --> 01:36:41,560
Speaker 1: swing that we can assault. And you can imagine this.

1784
01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:43,720
Speaker 1: Folks in the government are looking to appropriate funds. They'd

1785
01:36:43,720 --> 01:36:45,160
Speaker 1: like to steal a little bit from the kidy here

1786
01:36:45,200 --> 01:36:47,320
Speaker 1: and there to go to fund of road here or that,

1787
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 1: but they can't do it, or buy some missiles or yeah, yeah,

1788
01:36:50,280 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 1: a couple of missiles in taxis whatever. They can't do it.

1789
01:36:52,720 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 1: They don't get that funding that gets pulled away. It's

1790
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:58,080
Speaker 1: not all spent specifically protected in legal framework that this

1791
01:36:58,120 --> 01:37:00,080
Speaker 1: money cannot be used for anything else. It doesn't. This

1792
01:37:00,160 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 1: money does not go to a border wall. This money

1793
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:04,640
Speaker 1: does not good anything. It goes to animal conjuration. And

1794
01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:07,080
Speaker 1: it's awesome. Yeah, And so when you know, when the

1795
01:37:07,080 --> 01:37:09,439
Speaker 1: Outdoor Industry Association I was reading and I wrote a

1796
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:11,719
Speaker 1: story about this for a magazine years and years ago.

1797
01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:15,680
Speaker 1: You read like the Outdoor Industry Association's reasoning and a

1798
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 1: lot of these points you just brought up of like

1799
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:22,559
Speaker 1: why that seven billion dollar industry wouldn't take on a

1800
01:37:22,600 --> 01:37:24,960
Speaker 1: similar type of exercise tax, which we call we now

1801
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 1: it's just called backpack tax, and in its general world,

1802
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 1: I can like when I read it, it kind of

1803
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:34,040
Speaker 1: reads to me like for every for every reason that

1804
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:36,800
Speaker 1: you wouldn't do it, there's a reason. There's there's a

1805
01:37:36,840 --> 01:37:38,800
Speaker 1: parallel in the hunting industry where the same thing is

1806
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:41,439
Speaker 1: happening moment pop shops. You know, we we work a

1807
01:37:41,439 --> 01:37:44,400
Speaker 1: lot with say Vista Outdoors, who in federal premium they

1808
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:46,400
Speaker 1: pay I think they pay I can't remember what the

1809
01:37:46,439 --> 01:37:49,240
Speaker 1: numbers again, but it's in the fifty million dollars range. Again,

1810
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:51,800
Speaker 1: I think it's fifty four million dollars in seventeen something

1811
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:54,760
Speaker 1: like that. I think you look that up. They pay

1812
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:56,400
Speaker 1: a lot of money. But there's also a lot of

1813
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:59,320
Speaker 1: mom and pop shops out there that are that are

1814
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:02,080
Speaker 1: making their own rifles, making their own ammunition, that they're

1815
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:05,439
Speaker 1: paying that exercise tax. Every piece of that every piece.

1816
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 1: The outdoor industry argues that every backpack isn't for the outdoors. Um.

1817
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:13,240
Speaker 1: And that's an understandable argument. But every bullets sold for hunting.

1818
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:15,320
Speaker 1: And so when I read it, it kind of reads

1819
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 1: When I read the Outdoor and Industry Associations and what

1820
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:20,679
Speaker 1: they call it, it's just says where we stand. Af

1821
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:25,639
Speaker 1: When I read it, it just reads like somebody's trying

1822
01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:30,040
Speaker 1: to get out of their allowance. It's like, I see

1823
01:38:30,080 --> 01:38:32,920
Speaker 1: all the issues. I see them clearly, and none of

1824
01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:36,400
Speaker 1: the things brought up here are wrong. Um. Really is

1825
01:38:36,439 --> 01:38:37,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of like, well, you guys are paying

1826
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:39,400
Speaker 1: for this, we don't want to have. We don't want

1827
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:43,280
Speaker 1: to have the same. It's unfair. Yeah, there's already. One

1828
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:45,439
Speaker 1: of their points is that there's already tariffs on many

1829
01:38:45,439 --> 01:38:47,760
Speaker 1: of our goods. But there's already tariffs import tariffs on

1830
01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:51,479
Speaker 1: many firearms manufacturers. And because you're paying fun tax doesn't

1831
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:53,920
Speaker 1: mean that in other tax is not applicable. They also say,

1832
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:56,240
Speaker 1: we believe Congress must first meet its obligation to fund

1833
01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 1: the land management agencies and fully fund to land on

1834
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:02,080
Speaker 1: our conservation fund, which we hope might happen soon. Um.

1835
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:05,080
Speaker 1: And so there's one hurdle. There's other things when they say,

1836
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:09,439
Speaker 1: like our Pittman Robertson tax model doesn't always go to

1837
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:13,920
Speaker 1: broad based wildlife conservation. Broad based access programs and and

1838
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:16,720
Speaker 1: they're not completely can be kind of narrow. It can

1839
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:19,799
Speaker 1: and it can be spent specifically on hunter programs, hunters

1840
01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:23,920
Speaker 1: ED Hunters. Hunter ED is in every state, So every

1841
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:27,280
Speaker 1: state fund that gets Pittman Robertson dollars spend some of

1842
01:39:27,320 --> 01:39:32,479
Speaker 1: that money on hunter education. But it's like it's less

1843
01:39:32,520 --> 01:39:35,320
Speaker 1: than timber seven. I think usually it varies. These companies

1844
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:37,160
Speaker 1: want to see it misspent more on like mountain bike

1845
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:40,320
Speaker 1: trails or you know, parking lots of trailheads and things

1846
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:42,680
Speaker 1: like that, which is understandable. But I think if we

1847
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:46,120
Speaker 1: really established that, you know, these funds are about wildlife,

1848
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, everybody can buy into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1849
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:52,200
Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, I think that there's and they

1850
01:39:52,200 --> 01:39:55,360
Speaker 1: say though these taxes, and speaking of Pittman Robbers and

1851
01:39:55,400 --> 01:39:58,880
Speaker 1: funds have generated substantial revenue that supports important conservation work.

1852
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:00,640
Speaker 1: Most of the hunting and fishing t access along with

1853
01:40:00,680 --> 01:40:04,320
Speaker 1: license fees, duck stamps, built fuel taxes and other revenue generation.

1854
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:07,360
Speaker 1: And of course these are under Daniel Johnson Pittman Robinson

1855
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:10,800
Speaker 1: feed directly back into those specific activities by focusing the

1856
01:40:10,840 --> 01:40:14,080
Speaker 1: investments to species and have debt restoration, and on and

1857
01:40:14,120 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 1: on they go. This model does not work to shore

1858
01:40:16,439 --> 01:40:20,880
Speaker 1: up the massive shortfalls of broader recreation and conservation funding.

1859
01:40:21,479 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 1: But but those are two different arguments, two different entities

1860
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:27,920
Speaker 1: that need funding. We need we need to continue wildlife funding.

1861
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,639
Speaker 1: We need to continue our our wilder conservation model, which

1862
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:32,879
Speaker 1: is largely based on hunting, because that's just the mechanism

1863
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:36,400
Speaker 1: for management. Um. I don't think there's an argument that

1864
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:38,280
Speaker 1: we don't also want to fund trail heads and stuff.

1865
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 1: But you know that can be a separate thing. You know,

1866
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:43,120
Speaker 1: that can be WCF and this can be dealing with

1867
01:40:43,200 --> 01:40:45,760
Speaker 1: Johnson Pittman Robertson applied to backpacks and mountain bikes. And

1868
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:47,519
Speaker 1: that's what I say. I say when you look at

1869
01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:50,679
Speaker 1: if I would if you were to take the model

1870
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:55,280
Speaker 1: of funding that goes with with Piven Robertson funds, and

1871
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 1: you will strip away what it anything about it, just say,

1872
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:02,000
Speaker 1: here's a model where the taxpayer willingly. Mind you, like,

1873
01:41:02,439 --> 01:41:05,200
Speaker 1: sometimes you can't get through the door without paying it.

1874
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:08,160
Speaker 1: So it's not always we say willingly. But we're in

1875
01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:10,320
Speaker 1: the hunting industry. We're not arguing against. In fact, we

1876
01:41:10,360 --> 01:41:13,560
Speaker 1: celebrate it many times. So this is like the taxpayers

1877
01:41:13,600 --> 01:41:16,679
Speaker 1: willing to pay it. Understand where it goes for. It's

1878
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:19,280
Speaker 1: heavily regulated till it gets through the treasury and gets

1879
01:41:19,280 --> 01:41:21,600
Speaker 1: through the parmament material, it goes to the states. The

1880
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:24,960
Speaker 1: states must spend it on things that directly benefit the

1881
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:29,519
Speaker 1: taxpayer who paid it because you were too take strip away, hunting, fishing,

1882
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:32,160
Speaker 1: any other elements and just present that. But like then,

1883
01:41:32,200 --> 01:41:35,040
Speaker 1: this has been going on for about nine years. It's

1884
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:37,880
Speaker 1: working real good. If you would just take that that

1885
01:41:37,880 --> 01:41:40,479
Speaker 1: outdoor Industry Association say, why don't you just do that?

1886
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:42,599
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think they're going to I don't think.

1887
01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:45,080
Speaker 1: And they have more political weight than maybe we do

1888
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:48,559
Speaker 1: in this world. Um, so you know, again, let's meet

1889
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:50,880
Speaker 1: people where they are and focus on solutions, not picking

1890
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 1: a fight with somebody. And yeah, it to be clear,

1891
01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm not picking a fight. I'm just trying to understand.

1892
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:57,200
Speaker 1: Of course, you're trying to understand what everybody doesn't contribute.

1893
01:41:57,240 --> 01:41:59,720
Speaker 1: Some of they all appreciate, we all appreciate what you say, like, hey,

1894
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:02,439
Speaker 1: you're great that you're challenging us on this, but here's

1895
01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:04,400
Speaker 1: the way we want to do it, and we think

1896
01:42:04,479 --> 01:42:07,200
Speaker 1: that's just as equally appropriate, and it's going to do

1897
01:42:07,240 --> 01:42:10,639
Speaker 1: exactly the same things as that model would do. Here's

1898
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:12,360
Speaker 1: the plan. I'd be like, go for and I don't

1899
01:42:12,360 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 1: really care how we get the mother. And they're not

1900
01:42:13,880 --> 01:42:16,720
Speaker 1: really arguing for that, unfortunately, and I find that frustrating. Um,

1901
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:19,720
Speaker 1: they get really excited about WCF, which is important, but

1902
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:22,840
Speaker 1: you know, you really want to see wildlife conservational funding

1903
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 1: that's coming from off shore oil drilling. What do you

1904
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:27,080
Speaker 1: have to do with that? Yes? Nothing, You have nothing

1905
01:42:27,120 --> 01:42:28,920
Speaker 1: to do with that. You're celebrating something you have nothing

1906
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:31,400
Speaker 1: to do with your money. Yeah. Uh So that that

1907
01:42:31,520 --> 01:42:33,920
Speaker 1: is frustrating. I remember and doing my research and reading this,

1908
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:36,920
Speaker 1: I just like, Okay, there's parallels to all the issues

1909
01:42:36,920 --> 01:42:41,280
Speaker 1: that the oh I has with with a backpack tax

1910
01:42:41,960 --> 01:42:45,639
Speaker 1: already going on within within our American system of conservation

1911
01:42:45,680 --> 01:42:50,040
Speaker 1: funding that includes Pittman and includes Dingle. So I have

1912
01:42:50,120 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 1: nowhere to go, I would challenge I'd love to have

1913
01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 1: a conversation with those folks. I have never had that

1914
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:55,600
Speaker 1: and just see where they are. They may have a

1915
01:42:55,640 --> 01:42:58,040
Speaker 1: really good explanation. I'm gone for you please. Yeah, I

1916
01:42:58,040 --> 01:42:59,640
Speaker 1: would love to love to talk to him and just

1917
01:42:59,640 --> 01:43:02,559
Speaker 1: interesting conversation. It's it's a challenge that I think is valid,

1918
01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:04,080
Speaker 1: and I'm I hope they have a good answer for it.

1919
01:43:04,120 --> 01:43:07,400
Speaker 1: I I don't know, I hope they would. So you

1920
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:10,120
Speaker 1: feel like in general and you, like I said, I

1921
01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 1: was reading a piece of road on the duck stamp,

1922
01:43:12,360 --> 01:43:14,719
Speaker 1: you have communicated this to to the audience. Let's forget

1923
01:43:14,760 --> 01:43:19,160
Speaker 1: the industry for a minute. What's their reaction to it? Um?

1924
01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:21,640
Speaker 1: A lot of people are really interested, people that you

1925
01:43:21,680 --> 01:43:24,040
Speaker 1: wouldn't expect. Again, people are just ignorant of these issues,

1926
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:25,559
Speaker 1: and it's not their own fault. They've just never been

1927
01:43:25,560 --> 01:43:29,320
Speaker 1: exposed to it. Um. Back when I lived in uh

1928
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:32,559
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, I would um love doing dinner parties at

1929
01:43:32,600 --> 01:43:34,800
Speaker 1: my house. UM. And one of my best friends, who

1930
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:36,479
Speaker 1: always also loved the cook, was no well from fits

1931
01:43:36,479 --> 01:43:38,800
Speaker 1: in the tantrums, and so we'd have like random band

1932
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:41,040
Speaker 1: dudes over cook them all dinner. And I would always

1933
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:42,439
Speaker 1: cook meat, and she would cook all the veggies and

1934
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:45,320
Speaker 1: sides and stuff. And um. You remember one time we

1935
01:43:45,320 --> 01:43:47,840
Speaker 1: were I was serving antelope shoulder. Uh. They were just

1936
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:50,519
Speaker 1: sitting there eating didn't didn't tell what it was. I

1937
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:51,920
Speaker 1: didn't tell what it was. And they were either like, man,

1938
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:53,840
Speaker 1: this is what the hell is? This is like the

1939
01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:55,599
Speaker 1: best damn thing I've ever eaten. West You're a hell

1940
01:43:55,600 --> 01:43:56,840
Speaker 1: of a good cook, and like all you know, and

1941
01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:58,720
Speaker 1: you're like, well, that's that's an antelope. Guys, like we

1942
01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:02,880
Speaker 1: have antelope, Like it's the prong corn shoring pictures. Remember

1943
01:44:03,320 --> 01:44:05,439
Speaker 1: one of the girlfriends of one of the band dudes

1944
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:07,200
Speaker 1: just like put her fork and knife down and it

1945
01:44:07,320 --> 01:44:09,200
Speaker 1: just like death glared me the rest of the rest

1946
01:44:09,200 --> 01:44:11,040
Speaker 1: of the time. But every you know, there were two

1947
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:12,840
Speaker 1: are people there and they were like, we had no

1948
01:44:12,920 --> 01:44:16,080
Speaker 1: idea hunting paid for conservation. We had no idea that

1949
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:18,920
Speaker 1: meat tasted good. We annoyed the hunting was anything. But

1950
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:22,639
Speaker 1: you know duct dynasty, Um, you know rednecks committing ritual

1951
01:44:22,680 --> 01:44:27,080
Speaker 1: animal slaughter, right, That's how most people see us. And

1952
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:29,200
Speaker 1: so just changing that perception opens people up to this

1953
01:44:29,280 --> 01:44:31,439
Speaker 1: larger conversation, and so that that really has to be

1954
01:44:31,479 --> 01:44:33,240
Speaker 1: the first step in this. Yeah, I think it's great,

1955
01:44:33,240 --> 01:44:36,240
Speaker 1: and I think I only really started to realize this,

1956
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:37,920
Speaker 1: I think in a real intangible way when I lived

1957
01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 1: in Austin Texas, and I worked at a company where

1958
01:44:40,160 --> 01:44:42,519
Speaker 1: most people didn't hunt, and I found myself as a

1959
01:44:42,560 --> 01:44:46,559
Speaker 1: representative for the idea moreover than just a participator. I

1960
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:48,559
Speaker 1: think you probably in that boat too, Yeah, I mean

1961
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:50,559
Speaker 1: you spend a lot of your time answering those questions,

1962
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:52,880
Speaker 1: and so I'm sure that that helped you, you know,

1963
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:56,839
Speaker 1: be better a kind of formulating or articulating what this is. Absolutely,

1964
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:59,200
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people just sort of like,

1965
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:01,839
Speaker 1: how some always that hunting is a really neat tradition

1966
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:04,600
Speaker 1: and helps the animals blah blah blah, and don't have

1967
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:07,560
Speaker 1: this fully articulated argument ready to go. And you and

1968
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:10,920
Speaker 1: I's job is to make articular arguments. Um, so we

1969
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:13,040
Speaker 1: we almost seem like an information card about hunting, just

1970
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:16,840
Speaker 1: like everybody just like how dare you? Hut? And you're like,

1971
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:19,479
Speaker 1: here you go. I'm just leave them with that walk away.

1972
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:21,439
Speaker 1: And there's always been people who are like, you're an asshole,

1973
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:23,559
Speaker 1: I'm a vegan cecil Alan, you know, blah blah blah

1974
01:45:23,600 --> 01:45:25,000
Speaker 1: blah blah. And there's gonna be a lot of people

1975
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:27,000
Speaker 1: whose minds we can change, a lot of people who

1976
01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:29,080
Speaker 1: even if I never participate in hunting, are at least

1977
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:32,000
Speaker 1: like No Man Hunting School. Don't say hunters are assholes,

1978
01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:34,519
Speaker 1: you know, to dinner party somewhere in San Francisco. Just

1979
01:45:34,520 --> 01:45:37,120
Speaker 1: just people that smell their own parts or something. But

1980
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:39,240
Speaker 1: it's a good movement within what we do, you know,

1981
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:42,639
Speaker 1: from hunters and people that enjoy access, enjoy wild place.

1982
01:45:42,680 --> 01:45:44,439
Speaker 1: It's a good movement. I think it's also probably important

1983
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:46,559
Speaker 1: for US hunters to be reminded of this is what

1984
01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:48,599
Speaker 1: we're doing. Um, you know that we aren't just doing

1985
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:50,040
Speaker 1: this because the meets good. We aren't just doing this

1986
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:52,080
Speaker 1: because it's enjoyable. We are just doing it because remember

1987
01:45:52,120 --> 01:45:54,599
Speaker 1: doing with their granddads. You know, we're doing this for

1988
01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:57,920
Speaker 1: a reason. Um, there's a very honorable reason here. It's

1989
01:45:58,439 --> 01:46:02,080
Speaker 1: it's a really powerful thing. And you know, maybe just

1990
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:04,320
Speaker 1: that knowledge helps, you know, encourage you to go hunting

1991
01:46:04,360 --> 01:46:06,920
Speaker 1: one more time a year. You justify it to your

1992
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:09,559
Speaker 1: family or you know, you back to Pittman Ryans and

1993
01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:11,200
Speaker 1: I mean I when I was writing at this article

1994
01:46:11,439 --> 01:46:13,599
Speaker 1: of reference, not probably this before on the show, but

1995
01:46:14,520 --> 01:46:17,320
Speaker 1: I was, I was like, I'm gonna pull a hundred hunters,

1996
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:19,759
Speaker 1: just normal people, not probably most of them, not industry,

1997
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:21,840
Speaker 1: all the people I can find and any hunting CAMPU. Man,

1998
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:26,200
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ask people what is Pittman Roberts. And

1999
01:46:26,280 --> 01:46:28,360
Speaker 1: I ended up getting a hunter people. And I made

2000
01:46:28,360 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 1: a little notebook and I had my little check check thing.

2001
01:46:31,520 --> 01:46:34,200
Speaker 1: IM couldn't explain it sounds right, yeah, And this was

2002
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:36,000
Speaker 1: you know, three or four years ago whatever whenever that was.

2003
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:39,000
Speaker 1: And so I just knew, I said, I just know that.

2004
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:41,720
Speaker 1: And and I don't blame those folks, Like I said,

2005
01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:44,120
Speaker 1: it's not it's not apparent when you buy a license

2006
01:46:44,120 --> 01:46:46,200
Speaker 1: that you have to know this information. Of course, it's

2007
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:47,759
Speaker 1: not a parent and that creates one of the beauties

2008
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:49,600
Speaker 1: of the system. The system is so strong that you

2009
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:51,320
Speaker 1: are participating in it, whether you want to or not,

2010
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 1: whether you aware that you are not. Um, you know,

2011
01:46:54,439 --> 01:46:55,880
Speaker 1: like this is just it is what it is. It's

2012
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:59,240
Speaker 1: incredibly strong. It's just a great foundation and there's a

2013
01:46:59,280 --> 01:47:01,880
Speaker 1: lot of beauty and at But I think also learning

2014
01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:03,920
Speaker 1: to understand that, learning to understand what you're doing is

2015
01:47:03,960 --> 01:47:07,240
Speaker 1: also a great step to being more politically engaged, to

2016
01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:10,080
Speaker 1: understanding how things work in this country, how taxes are

2017
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:13,680
Speaker 1: spent um, you know, and then being a position from

2018
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:17,679
Speaker 1: there to consider the information you're consuming and make smarder

2019
01:47:17,720 --> 01:47:19,400
Speaker 1: decisions in life and think about what you're doing a

2020
01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 1: little more consciously. Yeah, and I think I've experienced this

2021
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:25,200
Speaker 1: with I've never spoken a little are personally, but I

2022
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:26,800
Speaker 1: know a lot of people that have. And that's like

2023
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:30,680
Speaker 1: when you know, the hunting industry and BHS in particular,

2024
01:47:31,040 --> 01:47:33,160
Speaker 1: push back on all Jason Chafitz back when they were

2025
01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:35,400
Speaker 1: trying to transfer some land in the Great State of

2026
01:47:35,479 --> 01:47:38,400
Speaker 1: Utah and pretty much tramped him down and then took

2027
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:41,680
Speaker 1: him his career, destroyed his career. Here's a guy that

2028
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:44,280
Speaker 1: was like, WHOA, I didn't think about this group, didn't

2029
01:47:44,280 --> 01:47:47,120
Speaker 1: think about their voraciousness. And then you start kind of

2030
01:47:47,360 --> 01:47:50,120
Speaker 1: aligning the values, Well, what these values do we align on?

2031
01:47:51,040 --> 01:47:54,080
Speaker 1: And then you start to realize that, oh, that's pretty deep. Yeah,

2032
01:47:54,240 --> 01:47:58,280
Speaker 1: and it's it's it's based or value. It's foundational. So yeah,

2033
01:47:58,320 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 1: that's a good way to put it's foundational. There's there's

2034
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:03,559
Speaker 1: some things that aren't foundational though, Like I know for

2035
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:05,559
Speaker 1: a fact, I don't know how you feel about this

2036
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:07,120
Speaker 1: or even how outside. Don't want to ask you to

2037
01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:09,760
Speaker 1: speak for outside unless you want to. Um, do you

2038
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:11,960
Speaker 1: find that like there's there's just things like trophy hunting

2039
01:48:11,960 --> 01:48:14,680
Speaker 1: being what it is. Yeah, that's like less of such

2040
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:16,680
Speaker 1: a it's just a weaponized term. But yeah, I think

2041
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,320
Speaker 1: I think more tangibly predator hunting something that I mean,

2042
01:48:19,400 --> 01:48:22,439
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed predator hunting. Um. You know, I think

2043
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:24,960
Speaker 1: the North American conservation model again is strong enough that

2044
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:27,680
Speaker 1: any hunting participated in is positive. Um. Some of the

2045
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:32,760
Speaker 1: methods of take in in predator hunting can be controversial. UM.

2046
01:48:32,840 --> 01:48:35,000
Speaker 1: What I've learned, I think as I've become more serious

2047
01:48:35,040 --> 01:48:37,160
Speaker 1: about hunting and be able to you know, call it

2048
01:48:37,200 --> 01:48:40,400
Speaker 1: part of my job. Um, is I've actually I was

2049
01:48:40,479 --> 01:48:43,479
Speaker 1: judgmental about some of this stuff. UM. I was always like, well,

2050
01:48:43,479 --> 01:48:45,040
Speaker 1: I hunt for food, I don't hunt for trophies and

2051
01:48:45,120 --> 01:48:46,559
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff. And then I learned more

2052
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 1: about it. Like I just I think I learned just

2053
01:48:48,360 --> 01:48:52,240
Speaker 1: not to judge other hunters. Um. Even if there's some

2054
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:55,479
Speaker 1: type of hunting that I personally am not interested in doing,

2055
01:48:56,120 --> 01:48:59,720
Speaker 1: I understand that it's valuable. Um. You know, I love

2056
01:48:59,800 --> 01:49:02,439
Speaker 1: my dog. I'm a huge dog person, and I don't

2057
01:49:02,439 --> 01:49:04,759
Speaker 1: really think I ever want to hunt a wolf. Um.

2058
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:07,760
Speaker 1: As a result, as the record me either, UM, I

2059
01:49:07,800 --> 01:49:09,840
Speaker 1: have a lot of thoughts about wolf conservation in the

2060
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:12,760
Speaker 1: lower forty eight and think it's largely a positive thing.

2061
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:15,000
Speaker 1: Even I know a lot of people um caught up

2062
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:17,960
Speaker 1: in some propaganda run and not being Having said that,

2063
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:19,519
Speaker 1: you know, if you're hunting a wolf from a place

2064
01:49:19,520 --> 01:49:23,040
Speaker 1: where wolf populations are sustainable, good for you. Um. I'm

2065
01:49:23,080 --> 01:49:24,519
Speaker 1: not going to judge that. It's not something I would

2066
01:49:24,520 --> 01:49:27,080
Speaker 1: do personally, but I understand why you do it, and

2067
01:49:27,280 --> 01:49:31,360
Speaker 1: I understand that it's valuable, and I will defend you absolutely. Yeah,

2068
01:49:31,439 --> 01:49:34,160
Speaker 1: and you I'm sure you run into maybe not, but

2069
01:49:34,280 --> 01:49:36,600
Speaker 1: I just know from reading Outside and some of the

2070
01:49:36,640 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 1: stuff I read, I'm like, oh boy, yeah, that's that's deep.

2071
01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:41,800
Speaker 1: I got a lot of disagreements with that. How do

2072
01:49:41,840 --> 01:49:43,360
Speaker 1: you how do you square those things? Or do you

2073
01:49:43,360 --> 01:49:46,920
Speaker 1: have to You probably don't. I don't. I don't have to, um,

2074
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:49,240
Speaker 1: but you know you have to understand. You know, we

2075
01:49:49,240 --> 01:49:51,880
Speaker 1: are a large mainstream magazine. We're forty years old, and

2076
01:49:51,920 --> 01:49:57,400
Speaker 1: we are we were very much outdoor recreation, not hunting. UM. Hopefully,

2077
01:49:57,520 --> 01:50:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, when Steve writes articles for us and out side,

2078
01:50:00,240 --> 01:50:02,160
Speaker 1: that gets a message across. Hopefully some of my content

2079
01:50:02,240 --> 01:50:05,120
Speaker 1: gets some message across but you know, largely outside really thinks,

2080
01:50:05,280 --> 01:50:06,960
Speaker 1: you know, they just don't think about these issues, and

2081
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:10,360
Speaker 1: so they don't understand them, and so stuff goes through

2082
01:50:10,400 --> 01:50:13,880
Speaker 1: there that is from people that have other opinions. And

2083
01:50:14,040 --> 01:50:16,679
Speaker 1: our job of the publication isn't to represent some unified

2084
01:50:16,680 --> 01:50:18,639
Speaker 1: this is how you should think, you know, like Fox

2085
01:50:18,680 --> 01:50:20,880
Speaker 1: News does, you know, Our our job as a real

2086
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:24,400
Speaker 1: publication um is to present a diverse array of voices,

2087
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:28,519
Speaker 1: put information out there, foster conversations, and hopefully, through that

2088
01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:33,320
Speaker 1: entire product lead to a larger understanding of not just

2089
01:50:33,400 --> 01:50:35,920
Speaker 1: these issues, but also how other people think about them.

2090
01:50:35,960 --> 01:50:39,400
Speaker 1: So I don't see somebody saying something negative about hunting

2091
01:50:40,200 --> 01:50:43,400
Speaker 1: um in my own publication and think that's bad. I

2092
01:50:43,439 --> 01:50:46,599
Speaker 1: think that's a great chance to understand how that person thinks,

2093
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:49,920
Speaker 1: to learn more about how they think, and then understanding

2094
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:52,000
Speaker 1: that how we can change our minds. That's great. That's

2095
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:53,920
Speaker 1: a great example of that. And we're gonna give us

2096
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:56,559
Speaker 1: some more lighthearted stuff. We've got a couple of segments

2097
01:50:56,600 --> 01:50:59,599
Speaker 1: to get through. The first one is called Damn Near Died,

2098
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:03,040
Speaker 1: and that's sponsored and brought to you by Yetti, makers

2099
01:51:03,040 --> 01:51:07,120
Speaker 1: of coolers and all kinds of indestructible things. And uh,

2100
01:51:07,160 --> 01:51:09,280
Speaker 1: you just gotta tell me you got a damn your

2101
01:51:09,280 --> 01:51:11,400
Speaker 1: diet story. You told me it was motorcycle related. I've

2102
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:13,639
Speaker 1: gotta go. And so I, in a former life, built

2103
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:16,840
Speaker 1: the largest motorcycle website in the world out of my

2104
01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:19,040
Speaker 1: apartment when on my credit card, in sort of myself

2105
01:51:19,080 --> 01:51:21,960
Speaker 1: in a very reservation having done that. But I was

2106
01:51:22,120 --> 01:51:26,679
Speaker 1: riding a dollar attack in superbike one night out to dinner. Um,

2107
01:51:26,760 --> 01:51:28,360
Speaker 1: and on the way home. You know, I dressed for

2108
01:51:28,400 --> 01:51:32,759
Speaker 1: dinner jeans, you know, leather motorcycle jacket, combat boots, racing gloves,

2109
01:51:32,960 --> 01:51:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, intern dollar helmet, you know all that stuff.

2110
01:51:35,120 --> 01:51:37,240
Speaker 1: But I was in jeans. Um. You know, you walk

2111
01:51:37,280 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 1: in the restaurant, take every jacket look good. You know

2112
01:51:39,040 --> 01:51:41,160
Speaker 1: your motorcycle has all kind of course, So I running

2113
01:51:41,160 --> 01:51:44,200
Speaker 1: home didn't see it. Um. Uh, just now you do.

2114
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:46,920
Speaker 1: Restreet corner like thirty five miles an hour, nothing crazy.

2115
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:49,280
Speaker 1: He just going around corner going home right, ran over

2116
01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:53,439
Speaker 1: a pole glass car accident and uh like just slid

2117
01:51:53,479 --> 01:51:54,800
Speaker 1: out of meat. There's nothing I could do. There was

2118
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:57,160
Speaker 1: no slip and do anything. Was just boom on the ground,

2119
01:51:57,320 --> 01:52:01,559
Speaker 1: bouncing bike. I got stuck under it. Um. You know,

2120
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:03,519
Speaker 1: the human body of all do about twelve miles an hour,

2121
01:52:04,400 --> 01:52:06,719
Speaker 1: and so the formula is you lose one millimeter flash

2122
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:08,160
Speaker 1: for every mile an hour you're going on an average

2123
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:10,640
Speaker 1: pavement surface. So I was I was trapped under a

2124
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:13,000
Speaker 1: form found motorcycle sliding. I was only going thirty five

2125
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:16,080
Speaker 1: miles an hour or so. UM, but enough of us slide,

2126
01:52:16,160 --> 01:52:20,120
Speaker 1: enough of some bouncing around to do some significant damage. UM.

2127
01:52:20,160 --> 01:52:22,800
Speaker 1: I wore off probably half an inch of flash on

2128
01:52:22,840 --> 01:52:25,920
Speaker 1: my ass. UM. I had a metal plates in my

2129
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 1: arm for a previous accident that I had been having

2130
01:52:27,800 --> 01:52:30,320
Speaker 1: trouble with. One was gonna have replaced. UM. That popped

2131
01:52:30,360 --> 01:52:33,280
Speaker 1: out into most of my arm with it. UM. Two

2132
01:52:33,360 --> 01:52:35,080
Speaker 1: ribs came out of my chest. They never went back in.

2133
01:52:35,120 --> 01:52:36,720
Speaker 1: The doctors never fixed that one for some reason. They're

2134
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:37,720
Speaker 1: sort of on top of my chest and a big

2135
01:52:37,720 --> 01:52:40,320
Speaker 1: amount of cartilage, which is weird. UM, and probably some

2136
01:52:40,400 --> 01:52:43,800
Speaker 1: other stuff I'm forgetting. UM. I hit my head pretty

2137
01:52:43,800 --> 01:52:46,040
Speaker 1: good too, I think, because I made some bad decisions

2138
01:52:46,040 --> 01:52:49,040
Speaker 1: after that. And you know, this motorcycle was loaned to

2139
01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:51,320
Speaker 1: me by Aprilia. UM. I was not in the nicest

2140
01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:54,600
Speaker 1: neighborhood and I was well mostly worried about leaving the

2141
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:57,400
Speaker 1: motorcycle on a street corner and getting stolen over going

2142
01:52:57,439 --> 01:53:02,920
Speaker 1: to the hospital myself. Um, I also kind of so

2143
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:05,439
Speaker 1: in the crash, I'd broken off all the left hand

2144
01:53:05,439 --> 01:53:07,920
Speaker 1: controls of the motorcycle, which as you know, is the

2145
01:53:07,960 --> 01:53:11,519
Speaker 1: clutch lever and gearshift leaver. So I manually put it

2146
01:53:11,560 --> 01:53:14,000
Speaker 1: in second gear using my hands, and then I pulled

2147
01:53:14,040 --> 01:53:15,960
Speaker 1: out the clutch cable wrapped around my broken left arm,

2148
01:53:15,960 --> 01:53:18,200
Speaker 1: which is completely shattered and basically just a noodle at

2149
01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:20,680
Speaker 1: that point, and used the basically the stretch of my

2150
01:53:20,760 --> 01:53:23,280
Speaker 1: arm as the clutch. Uh. To ride home about twenty

2151
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:25,280
Speaker 1: five miles, and I didn't make it all the way home.

2152
01:53:25,320 --> 01:53:26,800
Speaker 1: I made it about two miles from my house, and

2153
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:28,559
Speaker 1: I was starting to pass out, but there was a

2154
01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:30,680
Speaker 1: friend's house right there, so I pulled it in the

2155
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:33,160
Speaker 1: friend's house, walked inside, and just a bunch of stoners,

2156
01:53:33,200 --> 01:53:35,880
Speaker 1: you know, bull butt, oh college buddies. Uh one. So

2157
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:37,760
Speaker 1: I sit down the couch and they like pulled my

2158
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:40,000
Speaker 1: helmet off for me, gave me some shots of vodka,

2159
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:42,599
Speaker 1: give me like a bong rep. They were like, dude,

2160
01:53:42,600 --> 01:53:44,040
Speaker 1: you're getting a lot of blood in our couch and

2161
01:53:44,040 --> 01:53:46,800
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, bleeding. You know, I hadn't really

2162
01:53:46,840 --> 01:53:48,680
Speaker 1: thought about it from that perspective yet, and so they

2163
01:53:48,760 --> 01:53:51,439
Speaker 1: drove me to the hospital. UM. I remember sitting there

2164
01:53:51,479 --> 01:53:53,840
Speaker 1: like talking to the check in lady and she was

2165
01:53:53,880 --> 01:53:55,160
Speaker 1: just like taking a back and I didn't arrive in

2166
01:53:55,160 --> 01:53:57,560
Speaker 1: an ambulance. They didn't think I was like dying or

2167
01:53:57,560 --> 01:53:59,720
Speaker 1: anything like that. They were just like, shoots, this crazy guy,

2168
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:02,840
Speaker 1: like he's on meth or something, just like sucking whacked

2169
01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:05,160
Speaker 1: out at that point. And I remember like listing all

2170
01:54:05,160 --> 01:54:08,320
Speaker 1: my injuries to her, very matter of factly and being like, yeah,

2171
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:10,080
Speaker 1: I pulled the leve plate on my arm, I'm gonna

2172
01:54:10,080 --> 01:54:12,240
Speaker 1: needs some surgery on that. And my left knees missing,

2173
01:54:12,320 --> 01:54:14,519
Speaker 1: so that's probably gonna be a surgery too. I'm pretty

2174
01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:16,720
Speaker 1: sure a fractured my costacks and multiple places, and my

2175
01:54:16,720 --> 01:54:18,519
Speaker 1: asses bleeding as you can see the giant hole of

2176
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:19,840
Speaker 1: my jeans as I strolled in and hear with my

2177
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:22,559
Speaker 1: assaying out of my jeans. UM, this is being you know,

2178
01:54:22,560 --> 01:54:26,200
Speaker 1: it's a sediar signi UM, which is a terrible, terrible hospital.

2179
01:54:26,280 --> 01:54:27,960
Speaker 1: Never go there if you can avoid it. I sat

2180
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:30,880
Speaker 1: in the waiting room UM for either five hours or

2181
01:54:30,920 --> 01:54:33,840
Speaker 1: seven hours UM in a pool blood before I got

2182
01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:35,360
Speaker 1: a bed, and I was in that bed. There was

2183
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:37,160
Speaker 1: one five hour pier one seven our period. I wasn't

2184
01:54:37,160 --> 01:54:38,880
Speaker 1: really sure, and so I was in that bed for

2185
01:54:38,960 --> 01:54:41,480
Speaker 1: the other period and I remember passing out and then

2186
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:43,560
Speaker 1: waking up because I was being jostled and there was

2187
01:54:43,600 --> 01:54:45,880
Speaker 1: like a crackhead fighting two police officers from top of it.

2188
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:49,600
Speaker 1: You know. I was like, please don't do that. Where

2189
01:54:49,600 --> 01:54:53,240
Speaker 1: the crackhead come from. It's l a, It's just crackheads everywhere. UM,

2190
01:54:54,160 --> 01:54:57,680
Speaker 1: this is a good. At the same time, UM, I

2191
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:00,880
Speaker 1: had just UM sold my company to you, a group

2192
01:55:00,880 --> 01:55:04,000
Speaker 1: of venture capitalists UM who promised me a six figure

2193
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:06,120
Speaker 1: salary and health insurance. And I turned my previous health

2194
01:55:06,120 --> 01:55:11,520
Speaker 1: insurance off so that happens UM, and they weren't paying me.

2195
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:15,720
Speaker 1: The paychecks never showed up. So I had no paychecks UM,

2196
01:55:15,840 --> 01:55:20,520
Speaker 1: no health insurance UM forty seven thousand dollars of medical bills. UH.

2197
01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:22,440
Speaker 1: And and so after this, I couldn't wal off in

2198
01:55:22,520 --> 01:55:25,800
Speaker 1: three months and I was single. UH and like life

2199
01:55:25,880 --> 01:55:28,320
Speaker 1: just sucked. I almost lost my house. My friends had

2200
01:55:28,320 --> 01:55:31,520
Speaker 1: paid my writen for me, friends had buy me food. UM.

2201
01:55:31,560 --> 01:55:33,400
Speaker 1: One of my friends luckily grew pot around the corner,

2202
01:55:33,400 --> 01:55:34,560
Speaker 1: so you just let me have access to that for

2203
01:55:34,600 --> 01:55:36,280
Speaker 1: free as a pain killers and a new pain killers.

2204
01:55:36,720 --> 01:55:39,080
Speaker 1: It was the most challenging period of my life. Um,

2205
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:41,080
Speaker 1: and it was really really low. I spent Christmas by myself,

2206
01:55:41,080 --> 01:55:43,040
Speaker 1: spent New Years by myself. I'm really glad there wasn't

2207
01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:47,680
Speaker 1: any more challenging this one. Some friends saw how low

2208
01:55:47,720 --> 01:55:48,880
Speaker 1: I was and saw, you know, I was having a

2209
01:55:48,960 --> 01:55:50,280
Speaker 1: very difficult time, and they were, hey, we got you

2210
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:53,160
Speaker 1: a dog, and they got me Wiley. Yeah, and I was,

2211
01:55:53,240 --> 01:55:54,680
Speaker 1: I cannot take care of a dog. I do not

2212
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:57,680
Speaker 1: want this dog, you know, like this is not something

2213
01:55:57,680 --> 01:55:59,520
Speaker 1: I can take care of, Like we know, this is

2214
01:55:59,560 --> 01:56:02,480
Speaker 1: why we ache a dog. Greatest thing of rapping you

2215
01:56:02,480 --> 01:56:05,400
Speaker 1: save my life. Then Wiley led to Wiley lead to

2216
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:08,480
Speaker 1: I now have Booie and Teddy. Um, and I'm pretty

2217
01:56:08,520 --> 01:56:12,080
Speaker 1: sure my now fiance Virginia swiped right on bumble because

2218
01:56:12,120 --> 01:56:16,240
Speaker 1: I was had to dog with my profile photo. Dude,

2219
01:56:16,280 --> 01:56:18,520
Speaker 1: this is the most full circle podcast I've ever done.

2220
01:56:19,040 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 1: You started out with Ayahuaska and you got us back

2221
01:56:21,240 --> 01:56:24,040
Speaker 1: to this. Yeah, dude, that's beautiful. I'm glad that all

2222
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:26,240
Speaker 1: happened because here you are. Yeah, I mean learned a

2223
01:56:26,240 --> 01:56:28,080
Speaker 1: lot from it. I wish I hadn't happened, but you

2224
01:56:28,120 --> 01:56:30,080
Speaker 1: know here I am. I left arm will never quite

2225
01:56:30,080 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 1: be the same. But you know it's actually really good

2226
01:56:33,200 --> 01:56:37,040
Speaker 1: for shooting a Bogue's like natural bend in it. You

2227
01:56:37,080 --> 01:56:40,560
Speaker 1: got good form. How did you get such a good form? Natural? Well?

2228
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:42,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for telling that story, man, I'm sure that's hard

2229
01:56:42,280 --> 01:56:45,680
Speaker 1: to tell, um, And I'm glad you're you're survived. You

2230
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:48,440
Speaker 1: look from this angle no worse to wear. You know

2231
01:56:48,600 --> 01:56:50,879
Speaker 1: you're living in bowsman, You're living the dream. Ye exactly.

2232
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:52,800
Speaker 1: All right, dude, thanks so much, Thanks for having me.

2233
01:56:52,840 --> 01:56:59,240
Speaker 1: Thanks West. That's it. That's all another episode of the

2234
01:56:59,280 --> 01:57:01,920
Speaker 1: Hunt Collective in the seventy three of them feeling good

2235
01:57:01,960 --> 01:57:04,280
Speaker 1: about seventy three of them feeling good about this episode.

2236
01:57:04,320 --> 01:57:08,360
Speaker 1: We had a lot to cover and I had fun. Man,

2237
01:57:08,440 --> 01:57:11,480
Speaker 1: I always have fun. But I'll say this, please do

2238
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:15,320
Speaker 1: us a favor. And as we talk about journalism and

2239
01:57:15,360 --> 01:57:20,400
Speaker 1: writing and how to speak about hunting to the mainstream,

2240
01:57:20,480 --> 01:57:23,840
Speaker 1: we need to address these issues in the mainstream media.

2241
01:57:23,880 --> 01:57:26,600
Speaker 1: We needed to to. Don't be as excited as I

2242
01:57:26,680 --> 01:57:28,720
Speaker 1: was in the intro to this podcast, but right into

2243
01:57:28,720 --> 01:57:31,840
Speaker 1: the Washington Post. Find the contact right into angel Fritz

2244
01:57:31,840 --> 01:57:34,120
Speaker 1: and Michael Bryce Saturn. Lets them know that that that

2245
01:57:34,200 --> 01:57:37,560
Speaker 1: what they what they did in that article in the

2246
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:44,520
Speaker 1: Washington Post just isn't appropriate, isn't productive. It is harmful

2247
01:57:44,680 --> 01:57:48,160
Speaker 1: to the discourse in this country around hunting or really

2248
01:57:48,200 --> 01:57:50,400
Speaker 1: around any subject that they would wade into in the

2249
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:53,640
Speaker 1: manner in which they did. So I'm fired up. I'm

2250
01:57:53,640 --> 01:57:55,640
Speaker 1: real fired up about it, and I think it's something

2251
01:57:55,680 --> 01:57:57,960
Speaker 1: that we can, we can make a statement on. We should,

2252
01:57:58,240 --> 01:58:01,000
Speaker 1: we should do it for the right reasons. Don't scream

2253
01:58:01,040 --> 01:58:05,080
Speaker 1: like me, be more like Phil's calm and collected. So

2254
01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:09,800
Speaker 1: go and do that for me, Michael Bryce Sadler and

2255
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:12,360
Speaker 1: Angela Fritz, give him, give him a buzz over there

2256
01:58:12,400 --> 01:58:15,520
Speaker 1: to Washington Posting and let him know very articularly how

2257
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:18,160
Speaker 1: you feel. Um, if you if you agree with me,

2258
01:58:18,200 --> 01:58:22,440
Speaker 1: if you don't ignore me. Um, what else? What else? Oh?

2259
01:58:22,640 --> 01:58:24,920
Speaker 1: The mediator dot com. You go to the media dot

2260
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:28,839
Speaker 1: com and there's a store there, and there's a store

2261
01:58:29,200 --> 01:58:33,520
Speaker 1: there that includes th HC merch. That's the Aldo freaking

2262
01:58:34,080 --> 01:58:39,440
Speaker 1: Leopold shirt. That's uh pro nuance, anti bullshit. Don't let

2263
01:58:39,480 --> 01:58:41,800
Speaker 1: anybody tell you that the word nuance is going on

2264
01:58:42,040 --> 01:58:44,840
Speaker 1: out of style. It's still one of the best words

2265
01:58:44,840 --> 01:58:48,600
Speaker 1: in the Englis language. So go get it and uh,

2266
01:58:48,720 --> 01:58:50,520
Speaker 1: what else you know? I'll tell you next week is

2267
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:52,200
Speaker 1: gonna be a good show. We've got my good friend

2268
01:58:52,240 --> 01:58:57,160
Speaker 1: Remy Warren. Remy Warren has a fantastic new announcement for

2269
01:58:57,200 --> 01:58:59,480
Speaker 1: the media world that you're gonna be hearing about in

2270
01:58:59,560 --> 01:59:02,400
Speaker 1: a couple of days. He's gonna be here next week

2271
01:59:02,440 --> 01:59:05,800
Speaker 1: on the show. We're gonna talk about that big surprise

2272
01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:09,280
Speaker 1: announcement and hopefully you'll be excited to hear exactly what

2273
01:59:09,320 --> 01:59:11,320
Speaker 1: it is you're and and because of that, you'll be

2274
01:59:11,320 --> 01:59:14,040
Speaker 1: hearing more from Remy. So I'm excited about that. I've

2275
01:59:14,040 --> 01:59:16,960
Speaker 1: been working hard with my boy Remy over the last

2276
01:59:17,160 --> 01:59:20,600
Speaker 1: couple of weeks and months on this project that we

2277
01:59:20,640 --> 01:59:24,600
Speaker 1: will soon announce. So stick around for that. Thanks for listening,

2278
01:59:24,800 --> 01:59:26,960
Speaker 1: and we will see you next time here on t

2279
01:59:27,360 --> 01:59:32,680
Speaker 1: h c oh u'mber seven tennessee. Who whiskey got me

2280
01:59:32,760 --> 01:59:36,480
Speaker 1: dragging heaven and uh and just stopped. It looks good

2281
01:59:36,480 --> 01:59:40,200
Speaker 1: to me. They're gonna have to department to the farrady.

2282
01:59:42,600 --> 02:00:03,200
Speaker 1: Oh to he be able to do that, to be

2283
02:00:04,360 --> 02:00:05,839
Speaker 1: needed