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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 3: are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff

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Speaker 3: they don't want you to know. In a message from

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Speaker 3: us to everyone listening, baby, you smell.

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Speaker 4: Sex man, there going to be there right there.

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Speaker 2: We can smell you through the phone.

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Speaker 3: Right through the miracle of modern technology, in the right circumstances.

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Speaker 3: Who doesn't love to hear that? First off, don't call hr.

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Speaker 3: I'm not hitting on anybody, it's.

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Speaker 4: Just you're hanging on the whole audience.

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Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's a great reference, and

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Speaker 3: I hope it gave everyone a chuckle. Nol. I love

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Speaker 3: the sex panther reference. I know it gave you a

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Speaker 3: laugh and Dylan, I can I could picture you giggling

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Speaker 3: a little bit. Hopefully.

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Speaker 5: They say it's like a dirty diaper full of Indian food.

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Speaker 2: Or something like, Ryan, I'm gonna be honest with you,

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Speaker 2: that smells like pure gasoline.

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's also a send up of Droquar Noir,

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Speaker 3: one of the most divisive colognes, is it. It's divisive, man,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know that like it. People who dislike it

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Speaker 3: capital d dislike it.

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Speaker 5: I think I maybe mentioned that I've become a bit

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Speaker 5: of a cologne guy, and I have a little little

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Speaker 5: boudoir collection of colognes, and I do not own Drucar Noir.

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Speaker 4: You and I both bought a cologne while we were

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Speaker 4: on the road.

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Speaker 3: I bought it correctly, Yeah, but I about the same

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Speaker 3: one as Yeah, I bought a couple of sense.

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Speaker 4: Like Aviator Navigator Navigator.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you were super close. We we also. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if this has happened to anyone else, but if

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Speaker 3: you were in a long relationship, have you ever kept

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Speaker 3: an article of clothing from a loved one, like their

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Speaker 3: shirt or something like that for the smell?

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Speaker 4: No, just me all right, hey, listen, no judgment in

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Speaker 4: the air. Brother. Ah.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Usually it's after a it's after a breakup, though,

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Speaker 5: and it's a piece of clothing they've left behind, and

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Speaker 5: it just makes you.

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Speaker 4: Sad, Yeah, because you're like your positive version of this.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a version where it's like a more long

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Speaker 2: distance thing and you just want to have the scent

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Speaker 2: of that person around you when possible. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: that's the that's the way I've encountered that situation.

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Speaker 4: In Japan, you can buy them from vending machines.

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Speaker 3: Oh no longer, God damn, we could talk about it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: sorry creepy people, But but zur real l for creepy

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Speaker 3: people the world over, or at least I think we're

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Speaker 3: starting with this because it tells us just that little

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Speaker 3: anecdote of the ways in which smell can influence the

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Speaker 3: human life. It is the Yeah, it's the number one

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Speaker 3: encoder of memory in the humans. A single scent can,

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Speaker 3: like Helen of Troy, launch a thousand memories. And we

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Speaker 3: may indeed do an experiment with this if you'd like

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Speaker 3: to play along at home in tonight's episode or series.

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Speaker 3: We're not sure. But what if there's something more play

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Speaker 3: to smell? What if there's an invisible communication system, a

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Speaker 3: conspiratorial agglomeration of chemicals that influences and unconsciously pushes human behavior.

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Speaker 2: What if, indeed and what if our bodies were just

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Speaker 2: designed to have this thing that we are not consciously

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Speaker 2: aware of constantly excreting.

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Speaker 3: And do we still have it? Are we still in

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Speaker 3: the game.

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Speaker 5: Why don't we take a quick break here a tiny

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Speaker 5: word from our sponsor. We'll come back and jump right

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Speaker 5: into this pretty exciting, smelly topic.

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Speaker 3: Here are the facts, all right. They're called pheromones. Are

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Speaker 3: they real? Headline is, yes, pheromones are real. They're often

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Speaker 3: misrepresented or misunderstood. We were talking about Dan Harmon's It

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Speaker 3: can be so mad at us for complimenting a heist film,

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Speaker 3: but you guys remember Ocean's Thirteen.

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Speaker 5: We were talking about the heist film Dan Harmon, be

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Speaker 5: damned if you ask me, absolutely, I'm the bag man.

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Speaker 5: That's all that matters. And Ocean's Thirteen was kind of

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Speaker 5: a banger. They're a fun they're fun series of movies,

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Speaker 5: a bit.

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Speaker 3: Of a romp.

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Speaker 2: The Pick of Destiny, one of the finest films ever created,

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Speaker 2: is a heist film.

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Speaker 3: I mean, make a movie is already kind of a

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Speaker 3: heist on a studio? Sure, yeah, So therefore is not

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Speaker 3: any film at some level of heist even well, sometimes

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Speaker 3: the studios or the heisters. Anyway. In Ocean's thirteen, there

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Speaker 3: is something called the Gilroy pheromone, and it's deployed in

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Speaker 3: the film as though it's a known grift, right, And

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Speaker 3: the idea is you can take a patch, a dermal

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Speaker 3: patch similar to like a Nicktine patch or something, and

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Speaker 3: you can put it just below your jawline where it

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Speaker 3: touches your circulatory system, and it will emit a pheromone

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Speaker 3: that makes one absolutely the sexiest person in the room.

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Speaker 3: That's not true, and actually it's a shout out. The

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Speaker 3: reason they're calling it Gilroy is because it's a shout

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Speaker 3: out to the longtime screenwriter of the Jason Bourne franchise. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: that doesn't matter. That's for a different show. Point. Is

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Speaker 3: it's calling to mind the idea of pheromones and pheromones.

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Speaker 3: They're often misrepresented. Right as we said, it's really a

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Speaker 3: group term for any internally produced or endogenous chemical that

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Speaker 3: is made and somehow emitted in small amounts by one

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Speaker 3: organism to inspire a specific reaction from another organism in

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Speaker 3: that same species.

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Speaker 2: Yep, you can see it in all kinds of creatures

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Speaker 2: like ants, spiders, pigs, flowers, all kinds of creatures across

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Speaker 2: this entire planet, and it appears that maybe humans are

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Speaker 2: one of those organisms.

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Speaker 3: And the study of pheromones can be traced back to

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Speaker 3: relatively recent human history, the early eighteen hundreds. There's this

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Speaker 3: French naturalist name is Jean Henri Fabre. He discovers that

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Speaker 3: he's really into moths. Our buddy Jean, and he says, look,

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Speaker 3: I can take a female emperor moth. It can attract

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Speaker 3: for reasons I don't understand, says Jean, a dozens of

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Speaker 3: male moths given some ambiguous set of circumstances. And he says, further,

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Speaker 3: even if I put this female emperor moth in a

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Speaker 3: cage and I kind of cover the poor girl up,

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Speaker 3: male moths can still fly exactly toward it with high accuracy,

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Speaker 3: with like daredevil level accuracy. What's happening? He doesn't know.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't have a word for it yet. He's just like,

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Speaker 3: this is nuts. Science is crazy.

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Speaker 2: But it was cool because you know, like any scientists

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Speaker 2: easy has that hypothesis. Well, it's unseen. I can't detect it,

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Speaker 2: so perhaps it is a scent of some kind m hm.

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Speaker 3: Right, which is a reasonable assumption or reason question to

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Speaker 3: pose fast forward nineteen fifty nine. This is where we

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Speaker 3: get the term pheromone. A guy named Peter Carlson teams

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Speaker 3: up with a guy named Martin Lusher, not Luther, and

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Speaker 3: there are two researchers at the Max Blank Institute for

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Speaker 3: Biochemistry in Munich, and they say, Okay, we know that

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Speaker 3: some animals emit some kind of cloud that is largely

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Speaker 3: invisible to humans most times. And some of these animals

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Speaker 3: that emit these clouds of molecules, the cloud composition is

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Speaker 3: different from the clouds that are emitted by other animals.

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Speaker 3: Something about some of these emissions influences other organisms, and

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Speaker 3: not every lifeform may use these chemicals to the same effect,

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Speaker 3: not every life worm may distribute them in the same way.

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Speaker 3: At this point, Carlson and Lucier primarily talking about to

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Speaker 3: sort of here's one for the vets in the crowd,

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Speaker 3: both veterans and veterinarians, a sort of spray and prayse strategy.

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Speaker 3: And they're just like spray that musk, Yeah, just flying

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Speaker 3: around like a like a freshman in college who just

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Speaker 3: found out about axe body spray.

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Speaker 5: They're just you ever heard the term like people talking

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Speaker 5: about like an animal that like sprays, you know, Like,

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Speaker 5: isn't that a thing like dogs do cats will Skunks

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Speaker 5: certainly do it, but I believe cats do it. You've

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Speaker 5: heard people talk about cats spraying. It's not the same

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Speaker 5: as peeing though, right, No.

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Speaker 3: Not quite, because it's meant to exhibit some of these

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Speaker 3: same things we're talking Other animals have different deployment strategies.

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Speaker 3: They're much more strategic. They store up their special weird chemicals,

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Speaker 3: their bio weaponry or biocommunication devices, and then they pick

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Speaker 3: a specific spot and then instead of all around the room,

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Speaker 3: they poop poop in these in these strategically located areas well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sense, if you think about a line of ants

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Speaker 2: when you're looking at you know that occurring. It's not

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Speaker 2: because the ants are following the next ant in front

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Speaker 2: of them necessarily, which can be helpful, you know, to

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Speaker 2: have a visual line. But often it's these sense that

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Speaker 2: we're talking about that they leave behind and they create

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Speaker 2: trails so that other ants can know where to go,

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Speaker 2: like to head home or to go to find food.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we need an important point of differentiation here.

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Speaker 3: A pheromone is different from a hormone. There's a venn diagram,

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Speaker 3: and it's really about the application and deployment. So both

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Speaker 3: pheromone and hormone are group words for signaling molecules. They're

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Speaker 3: mostly made of proteins, but hormones in any living thing

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Speaker 3: are defined by how they act within and upon the

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Speaker 3: creature itself. Pheromones act outside of the body and are

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Speaker 3: meant to alter or influence the behavior of another organism,

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Speaker 3: a separate thing outside of the you almost always in

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Speaker 3: the same species.

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Speaker 2: It's weird because they have their different kinds too. Within that,

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Speaker 2: there are releaser pheromones that have like that fast acting

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Speaker 2: effect on things, and then primer pheromones that are slow

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Speaker 2: paced and have more to do with behavior and development,

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Speaker 2: especially in young or you know, creatures. Whatever the young

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Speaker 2: is of, usually a female who is releasing the pheromones.

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Speaker 3: Right, and there are alarm pheromones, and then, of course

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Speaker 3: a great interest to the humans the ones that may

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Speaker 3: influence reproduction and attractiveness for the ed of iramones and

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Speaker 3: chiramones as well the the etymology nerds in the crowd.

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Speaker 3: I think we'll enjoy the way these guys came up

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Speaker 3: with the term pheromone from the Greek word pharren to

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Speaker 3: bear or to transport, and from the word hormone to

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Speaker 3: stimulate or to excite our pals. Nathan Chandler and Nicholas Gervis,

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Speaker 3: writing for Our Old Alma Matter how Stuff Works, put

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Speaker 3: it this way. Pheromones are a chemical way for creatures

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Speaker 3: to quote, transfer excitement from one to the other. They're

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Speaker 3: everywhere earlier just mentioned insects, A lot of vertebrates. Mammals

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Speaker 3: are not immune to this. They're present incrustations. This is

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Speaker 3: of interest, I think to all of us. Birds don't

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Speaker 3: seem to be in on the game.

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Speaker 4: That's a good point. They don't.

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Speaker 5: They poop on things, but they don't really Huh, why

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Speaker 5: is that they don't have the glands phomones.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we could, as we'll see, we can maybe

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Speaker 3: conclude it's because of narrow scoped research.

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Speaker 4: Maybe we just don't know.

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Speaker 5: Why do a lot of mating rituals, A lot of

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Speaker 5: movement based attractions, very elaborate dances and things like that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yeah, Well they're these things that thanks

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Speaker 2: to Size Show, which is a show on YouTube that

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Speaker 2: we used to check out a lot, at least back

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Speaker 2: when we were making videos and stuff. They they put

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Speaker 2: out a video in twenty sixteen called how Pheromones effect

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Speaker 2: who were attracted to and in there they specifically are

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Speaker 2: talking about organs that are not present in humans and

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Speaker 2: that are not present in a lot of different animals

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Speaker 2: that can specifically pick up pheromones. So the specific signaling molecules,

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Speaker 2: chemicals that are not something that we would pick up

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Speaker 2: through our nasal passages and our olfactory senses. That's nasal

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Speaker 2: organ yes, correct. So like the fact that if you've

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Speaker 2: got some animals that don't have that thing, that specific organ,

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Speaker 2: they're probably not going to be making use of this,

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Speaker 2: or you could even tell if another creature in their

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Speaker 2: species was making use of it, which.

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Speaker 5: Is interesting because it implies this sort of ordered like

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Speaker 5: communication like matrix I guess we could call it, where

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Speaker 5: like animals can almost communicate with each other, but it's

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Speaker 5: going to be something that's going to completely elude other species.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, to the idea of a hidden conspiracy of communication. Look,

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Speaker 3: Pheromones also exist in some fungi algaie sly modes. They

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Speaker 3: exist in or algae, I should say, for notoriously great

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Speaker 3: communicators in other towards notoriously and fantastic communicators, and pheromones

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Speaker 3: play a big part in that as we define them.

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Speaker 3: So this stuff is real, it's going to be invisible

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Speaker 3: to the human eye. Going back, I want to spend

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Speaker 3: some time on ants, because you won't walk by a

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Speaker 3: trail of ants invading your house, chasing a errant milk

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Speaker 3: dyed and see some sort of glowing purple trail pulse

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Speaker 3: full of ant pheromones. But they do use these specific

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Speaker 3: scent chemicals to guide other ants to food. Termites and

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Speaker 3: ants in particular are world famous for the complexity of

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Speaker 3: their pheromonic systems.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Pheromonic a word I think I made up.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't I think it did good. If it doesn't exist,

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Speaker 5: it should and it does.

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Speaker 3: Now Welcome to English. We're all still learning it. But

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Speaker 3: these little guys, they have libraries worth of chemicals that

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Speaker 3: are used to communicate and coordinate movements of their their

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Speaker 3: massive colonies. You know. So there's an interesting note. I'm

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Speaker 3: sure we've all heard this. Did you guys hear that

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Speaker 3: some people are convinced they can smell ants just the

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Speaker 3: presence of ants?

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Speaker 4: No, I haven't heard anybody claim that one.

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Speaker 3: I guess. I mean we move in different circles outside us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but you out with the ant people over here, that's.

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Speaker 3: A weird one. I'm still not sure how to how

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Speaker 3: to Elon took word rock for me parse. That's a

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Speaker 3: great save. So humanity still doesn't know fully how pheromone

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Speaker 3: science works across the board. Instead, humans know how some

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Speaker 3: pheromones work in some creatures. But we can even with this,

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Speaker 3: we can see some astonishing commonalities. So maybe we talked

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Speaker 3: about this and stay with the ant example for a moment.

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Speaker 5: Yes, let's so first, using chemicals to communicate is a

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Speaker 5: super like evolutionarily advanced sense. I mean, you know, if

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Speaker 5: we haven't indicated this already, we're pretty impressed by this

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Speaker 5: ability in the animal kingdom alone. In some environments, like

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Speaker 5: with birds for example, we're talking about visual or auditory

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Speaker 5: signals might not be as efficient, you know, because densely

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Speaker 5: you know, vegetated areas for example, not good line of sight.

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Speaker 5: A lot of insects are very very small and they're

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Speaker 5: not exactly seeing the other insects. So why not find

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Speaker 5: a scented way of communicating time speaking to the great

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Speaker 5: creator here, just go for that. That'd be a good one.

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Speaker 5: Imagine if those hypothetical ants that you're talking about. Ben

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Speaker 5: just were like yelling at each other instead of there's

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Speaker 5: too many of them. It's just not practical.

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Speaker 3: Hey, guys, there's a milk dot. Guys again said there's

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Speaker 3: a milk dot.

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Speaker 2: You just.

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Speaker 5: I think makes the joke for sure, something along those lines,

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Speaker 5: not the milk dve thing, but.

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Speaker 2: It's that way over there. Yeah, So that's a really

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Speaker 2: I love that because you know you're you're signaling in

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Speaker 2: this case. Permones are being used to communicate in this

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Speaker 2: way like a U generally a positive thing, right, but

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Speaker 2: we also like.

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Speaker 4: A hobo code or something.

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Speaker 3: Sure, we're handling gretel bread problems of smell.

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Speaker 2: Oh exactly, but we we just the creepy thing here,

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Speaker 2: I think is that that can be turned on its

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Speaker 2: head by another species, like a predator species, like this

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Speaker 2: exact thing that you're trying to communicate through these these smells,

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Speaker 2: these sense whatever we're gonna call these pheromone chemicals. Do

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Speaker 2: you guys know about the American female bullus spider?

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Speaker 3: Ooh do tell?

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Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, this freaked me out because it weaponizes this

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Speaker 2: ability that some creatures have. Female American bullus spiders do

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Speaker 2: this crazy thing where they don't create a web or

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Speaker 2: something like that you would see generally, at least here

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Speaker 2: in the Georgia area. They don't create one of those

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Speaker 2: little cave things, you know, like a trapdoor, spider wood

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Speaker 2: or something like that.

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Speaker 4: They make spider hole.

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Speaker 2: They make a tiny little trapez like web, and then

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Speaker 2: they hang down from that web and they spin up

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Speaker 2: a bunch of silk and this substance that's kind of

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Speaker 2: like glue. It's very akin to like super glue or something.

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Speaker 2: They spin up a what they call a bullus. It

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Speaker 2: looks like a little water droplet. Yeah, And then they

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Speaker 2: basically have that hanging down from one of their appendages,

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Speaker 2: one of their eight legs, and fishing pole. They call

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Speaker 2: them fishing spiders. And what they do is they emit

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Speaker 2: the pheromones or chemicals that mimic the pheromones of specific moths,

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Speaker 2: specifically briskly cutworm moths. Like the females and the males

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Speaker 2: are attracted to their body where the spider is the body.

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Speaker 2: And then they use their little fishing pole thing. They

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Speaker 2: fling it at the male moths catch them and all

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Speaker 2: the silk that's attached inside their kind of unravels around

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Speaker 2: the creature, the moth, and they reel it in like.

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Speaker 4: A fishing credible. I mean, that is impressive.

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Speaker 5: And let's also not forget that the most dangerous species

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Speaker 5: of all humans. I mean you always hear jokes almost,

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Speaker 5: but I think it is done about certain types of

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Speaker 5: animal musk being used to bait traps, things like to

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Speaker 5: attract the thing that you're after.

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Speaker 3: It's a very yeah, it's a time tested thing, right,

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Speaker 3: even unto stuff like distributing deer scat right or deer

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Speaker 3: sent or bear scent. This is something that the non

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Speaker 3: human animals clocked and evolved way before the first primates

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Speaker 3: came down from the trees.

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Speaker 2: Oh dude, I've got one more example here, because we're

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Speaker 2: talking about how long ago it's been. Well, plants have

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Speaker 2: been around for quite a bit longer than many animal species.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: There is a specific species of orchid known as the

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Speaker 2: b orchid. Guess what this does, Guys, attracts bees. It

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Speaker 2: looks like a dang bee. Now, it's an orchid that

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Speaker 2: has cool It has the bottom part of it, it

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Speaker 2: looks like a bee, and then it emits mimicking alomones.

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Speaker 2: It's very much like again, pheromone chemicals that mimic specific

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Speaker 2: female bee pheromones, so that the males will come over

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Speaker 2: and attempt to mate with the orchid and grab all

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Speaker 2: that paul in and spread it all over the dank place.

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Speaker 5: It doesn't this already happen though naturally with flowers, they're

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Speaker 5: just looking for an edge.

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Speaker 4: This orchid needed.

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Speaker 5: We want more, We need more attentions, so we're going

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Speaker 5: to look like a sexy.

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Speaker 2: B What causes That's the big question, right? What pass

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Speaker 2: is that kind of change in a plant species to

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Speaker 2: where it is now creating the chemicals that it needs

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Speaker 2: to attract the pollinator?

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Speaker 3: I believe, yeah, similar similar to the many other cases

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Speaker 3: of symbiotic communication or interaction. Uh, there is specificity, right,

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Speaker 3: that's key. You can see it in the world of

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Speaker 3: parasites as well. Pheromones are a little less hopefully a

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Speaker 3: little less parasitical, but I love the point that they

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Speaker 3: can be, and have been and will be weaponized. And

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Speaker 3: that'll that'll apply further when we get to some stuff

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Speaker 3: that you alluded to briefly a few moments ago. So

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Speaker 3: we established that first. It's a great way to communicate

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Speaker 3: if you are not going to be relied on visual

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Speaker 3: or auditory or a signals. Second in our list of three,

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Speaker 3: pheromones can function as an alarm system. They're not all

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Speaker 3: created equal. A lot of danger pheromones are short lived

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Speaker 3: because you don't want to normalize it. If you're at

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Speaker 3: school and the fire alarm goes off every day, then

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Speaker 3: eventually you're gonna ignore the fire alarm. The boy who

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Speaker 3: cried wolf, et cetera. Third, pheromones definitely do play a

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Speaker 3: big role in predation, in attraction, in reproduction. They influence

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Speaker 3: the sexual development of insects, plants, as well as a

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Speaker 3: surprising bevy of mammals. Now, not to call anybody out,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of our a lot of us in

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Speaker 3: the audience tonight, are humans. So how does this apply

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Speaker 3: to me? We may be asking classic human question. This

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Speaker 3: brings us to the humble Homo sapien. It is no surprise,

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Speaker 3: right with all the proven science, even though it's I

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Speaker 3: guess you could say it's kind of recent in that

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Speaker 3: a lot of the best words has occurred in the

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Speaker 3: West in maybe less than a century. It's not surprising

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Speaker 3: that human scientists have instantly sought to understand what, if

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Speaker 3: any role pheromones play in the great human story. So,

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Speaker 3: for instance, can humans create chemicals that mark territory? Let's

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Speaker 3: put our p jokes here. I think it's still legal

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Speaker 3: to pee outside in Finland, by the way. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we've all seen maybe a dog mark in its territory, right,

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Speaker 3: there's a chemical reason they're doing that. They don't just

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Speaker 3: disrespect the proverbial fire hydrant. Can humans create something internally?

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Speaker 3: Can humans secrete something that inspires attraction and mates? Can

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Speaker 3: humans secrete a substance that warns their fellow humans and

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Speaker 3: human like things of danger. It's weird because for a

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Speaker 3: long long time modern science thought, yes, this applies to

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Speaker 3: all animals except for us. When it comes to humans,

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Speaker 3: all this pheromone talk is malarkey. It sounds good, but

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Speaker 3: it doesn't pass. Dylan, help me out here. The smell

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Speaker 3: test not walking them back.

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Speaker 4: So if ever, we're inappropriate.

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Speaker 3: So we've already got so many fantastic threads to pick

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Speaker 3: up right in our bull is here. However, we're in

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Speaker 3: a new age of this science. We are learning things

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Speaker 3: that may just upend everything humans assumed they knew about

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Speaker 3: the pharomone.

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Speaker 5: Well, hey, guys, why don't we take a quick pause here,

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Speaker 5: I think it's a good breaking point, and here a

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Speaker 5: word from our sponsor, and then come back into the

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Speaker 5: human experience of all of this.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy. All right, this is the

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Speaker 3: deep water. That's what this is. The headline is the following.

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Speaker 3: Pheromone research remains murky and controversial when we're talking about humans.

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Speaker 3: This dude to several a few of them are painfully obvious,

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Speaker 3: and a few are hilarious and surprising. First we gotten

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Speaker 3: for this one. Human adults have no functioning vomeroonasal organ

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Speaker 3: that's the little thigamagig that processes pheromone signals. So it

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Speaker 3: could be that people everyone you know, is a lot

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Speaker 3: like a one way radio broadcasting system, Like they talk

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Speaker 3: endlessly about themselves, but they never listen. They're they're sending

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Speaker 3: these chemical messages into the void, and people are walking

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Speaker 3: around exposed to those messages, yet they are bereft of

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Speaker 3: a receiver that would allow them to understand and react

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Speaker 3: to those signals. That's that's one of the popular theories.

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Speaker 3: Have you guys heard that one before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's just the science where we just

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Speaker 2: don't have that thing. So they're one of the interesting

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Speaker 2: pieces of research. Attempts at researching this stuff has been

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Speaker 2: trying to pair what could be those chemicals coming out

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Speaker 2: and then a scent that is not those chemicals, but

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Speaker 2: it is in some way related. Right, often focusing on

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Speaker 2: sweat and other excretions essentially that you can smell you

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Speaker 2: can't pick up those signals, and seeing if that can

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Speaker 2: actually be in some way connected to the actual pheromones

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Speaker 2: that are being released. It's like, if I smell that scent,

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Speaker 2: I know I'm getting hit with pheromones.

432
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 3: I'd like to take a side note two on that point.

433
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:37,199
Speaker 3: Humans have historically had a difficult time studying themselves. It

434
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: reminds me of our conversations with Wargey Cham across a

435
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 3: couple of different shows. That's one of the big reasons

436
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 3: there are so many mysteries about the human brain. It's

437
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 3: very difficult through methodology to ask a thing to study itself.

438
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 3: A second fact is hilarious. This is just brass tacks

439
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: of any scientific research that we're going to explore tonight.

440
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 3: When we're talking about finding human pheromones. One of the

441
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 3: big problems is that humans are living creatures, constantly creating things, factories,

442
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 3: big cities unto themselves. They're big universes unto themselves, which

443
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 3: means humans are smelly. One of the biggest challenges in

444
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 3: pheromone research this is a true story, is finding cleanliness

445
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 3: and baseline odorlessness in human participants, because that's not your

446
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 3: We're trying to create a control state that does not

447
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 3: naturally exist. The chemicals that produce smell in humans are

448
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 3: often natural, and they come from a panoply of biological

449
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,880
Speaker 3: processes or processes if you want to put a tie

450
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 3: on it, things like diet, your health, your age, your

451
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 3: level of exercise, any medical condition. That might be a

452
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 3: story for another day. But a pheromone is an invisible

453
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 3: passing you're in this chemical mix. A smell itself is

454
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 3: not a pheromone. Maybe like a good metaphor for this, well,

455
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 3: we'll see what you guys think. Imagine an airplane, okay,

456
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 3: and let's think of the smell as the exhaust from

457
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 3: the engine right the contrail or chemtrail. If you're nasty,

458
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 3: that's the stuff you can consciously perceive. The plane itself

459
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 3: is an agglomeration of factors wind, sweat, skin flakes, fabric,

460
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 3: all the stuff that could carry that sensation to you,

461
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 3: the passengers on the plane, the folks riding the plane,

462
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,480
Speaker 3: those are the chemicals you don't see. So scientists are

463
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: very much like detectives here. They're trying to figure out

464
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 3: who's on that plane.

465
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're trying to do it. I mean for science, right,

466
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: but also for commerce. Imagine if you could unlock the

467
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: things that make others become attracted, like we were talking

468
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: about on the very top, right, something you could weigh

469
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: that all of a sudden attracts mates or everybody. It

470
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: just it makes you the most important person in that room,

471
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: and it's done secretly and silently. Like you, guys, we've

472
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: all seen the fragrances that get pushed everywhere on Instagram

473
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 2: and other places that allegedly have pheromones.

474
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: Right, yes, yeah, yeah, well.

475
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 2: Those things, those things are ubiquitous at this point, and

476
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 2: you can probably well, okay, you can make a lot

477
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: of money right now saying that you've got pheromones in

478
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: your products. Imagine if you actually did.

479
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, that's good. That's a good observation. I agree

480
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 3: with it because another a third problem here is we

481
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: see pheromones can do so many specific things and so

482
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: many other organisms terrifying and amazing accomplishments because there's so

483
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: many choices. It's the curse of the blank page for

484
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: the researcher. You have to kind of know what you're

485
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 3: looking for before you start searching, because again, the chemical

486
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: emissions are quite complex, so you could it's like, you know,

487
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 3: in a weird way. It reminds me of our earlier

488
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 3: episodes on the Vatican Secret Library, wherein there's so much

489
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 3: stuff in that library. You can maybe find the book

490
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 3: you want, but you have to know exactly what book

491
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: you want and what author, And that's why some of

492
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 3: the research into pheromones for humans can be so stymy. Also,

493
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: it's pretty narrow in scope being humans. Not to sound

494
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: too cynical, the scientists are largely focused on the possibility

495
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 3: of what we will call attraction pheromones. To the point

496
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 3: about the Colonne stuff or the perfume, it's the idea

497
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: of how can we how can we leverage this to

498
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 3: the advantage of reproduction.

499
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, again, I think specifically because you can create

500
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,880
Speaker 2: a product you can sell if it's got that in

501
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 2: that then people will buy it. A lot of this

502
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: comes from research on Oh gosh, I think they are

503
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 2: bores in Germany. The males of some of the boares

504
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: there in Germany produce and drostenone and in drostenol in

505
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 2: their saliva, and when they just happen, all they have

506
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: to do is breathe on a female that is in heat,

507
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: and the female, at least according to two studies, will

508
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: essentially assume a mating position when the right when the

509
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: to right things occur and that pheromone hits their senses,

510
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: which is, you know, again the kind of thing that

511
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: could be used in I don't want to see nefarious ways,

512
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 2: but in a way that would just be you would

513
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: see dollar signs in many people's eyes, I think.

514
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: Which will lead us to potential pitfalls.

515
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: Agreed.

516
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 3: Another aspect here in the difficulty of human pheromone research

517
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 3: is that unlike a lot of other mammals, bores for instance,

518
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 3: of course the common K nine man's best friend. Another

519
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 3: twist to the plot is that humans are highly dependent

520
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 3: upon visual cues less so consciously dependent upon olfactory cues.

521
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 3: So that's why if you're human and hearing this, most

522
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: of your in person interactions are going to lean more

523
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 3: heavily on visual stimuli than on spoken word. That's why

524
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 3: we get those old sayings like it's not what you

525
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 3: say about how you say it. Smell does matter in

526
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 3: close proximity. To be clear, please believe us, folks, it

527
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 3: is a very good thing that you cannot smell everyone

528
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 3: you see on a screen, or for that matter, spell

529
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 3: everyone you hear in a podcast. Got some nods, no laughs,

530
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 3: but we got some nods. I like a solemn agreement.

531
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: So we have to say it. And this is going

532
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: to ruffle some feathers perhaps, but as of this evening,

533
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 3: as of July eleventh, of beautiful Friday, when we're recording this,

534
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 3: there are no pheromonic substances that have ever been proven

535
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 3: to directly influence human behavior in a significant way in

536
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: a peer reviewed study. Lots of caveats to that, but

537
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: that's the current scientific consensus.

538
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: Well that and of course we don't have access to

539
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: whatever secret trials are happening on military basis right where

540
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: soldiers are being subjected to all kinds of stuff, because

541
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 2: we know what's happening, he says, kind of conspiratorially, but also.

542
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're on the same page. That was one of

543
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 3: my first questions too, Right, if there was if there

544
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 3: was a true Gilroy Pheromone, as depicted in Ocean's thirteen.

545
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 3: Then why on earth would you allow the public to

546
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: have it? You would want it for you would want

547
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 3: it for weaponization purposes.

548
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 4: So maybe they're really is one.

549
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: Perhaps they call it the Kissinger scent. Right, Yeah, everybody's

550
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 3: walked out of the meetings, say screw Southeast Asia. That

551
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 3: guy smells fantastic.

552
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 4: Housinger Kissinger from.

553
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 3: A rose shout out the seal.

554
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 2: How else did that guy have such sway? I don't know.

555
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 5: Man, demonic powers, powers and musk.

556
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 3: Yes, I like the point about must science has uncovered

557
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 3: some critical insights that both inspired this episode and shows

558
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 3: us there's more to the story if we look at

559
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 3: some specific studies. Uh, there's one I think we all

560
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 3: saw back in twenty seventeens by It was led by

561
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: oh gosh, I'm trying to remember the name Lee Simmons. Yes,

562
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 3: Lee's Lee Simmons, L E. I. G. H. Is the

563
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 3: the person running point on the study. And what they

564
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 3: did was pretty interesting. They had people self identify as heterosexual.

565
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 3: They said, okay, we're going to show you a series

566
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 3: of opposite sex faces. So if you are a lady

567
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 3: and you're into dudes. We're going to show you some

568
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 3: pictures of dudes, and you give us the hot or

569
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 3: not rating, and the same, you know, vice versa with

570
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: male participants. And the trick was that they were asked

571
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 3: to rate these faces after being exposed to two steroids.

572
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 3: And this calls back to the earlier mention of the

573
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 3: measurements of swine. Right at this point in twenty seventeen,

574
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 3: these two related things, andros didnone or A and D

575
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: for the purposes of my terrible English and estra tetrinol

576
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 3: or eest for the purposes of terrible English. They said,

577
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 3: we're going to expose these people to these things because

578
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 3: we think they may be human pheromones. A and D

579
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 3: is found in male sweat and semen est is found

580
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 3: in female human urine. So the participants get exposed to this.

581
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 3: They're also asked to judge neutral faces. Right, twenty seventeen,

582
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 3: So we got the photoshop technology. These are images of

583
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 3: men and women blended together into a single gestaltic face.

584
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 3: And Science Magazine, I think, does a lovely job depicting

585
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 3: the mission of this study.

586
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 4: Right.

587
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 5: So the authors kind of proposed that if the steroids

588
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 5: were pheromones, female volunteers given A and D would see

589
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 5: gender neutral faces as male, while male volunteers given EST

590
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,919
Speaker 5: would see gender neutral faces as female. They also put

591
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 5: forth a theory that the steroids corresponding to the opposite

592
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 5: sex would lead the volunteers to rate opposite sex faces

593
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 5: as being better looking.

594
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: And what did they find?

595
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, how that workout? Yeah, per the leaders of the

596
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,720
Speaker 3: study themselves, they found no measurable correlation. But it's important

597
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 3: to me. Yeah, I know, but it's important to note.

598
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 3: Lee Simmons, who we mentioned earlier, said, look, human pheromones

599
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 3: probably do exist. The issue is only that none of

600
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: them have been conclusively identified, and Simmons went on to

601
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 3: do more work in this field. By the way, we

602
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 3: kind of picked this study because it created a back

603
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 3: and forth, a proper discourse. Other scientists and experts in

604
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 3: the field are chiming in. They're raising questions about how

605
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: the study is conducted. And a lot of people were

606
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,280
Speaker 3: green with Simmons and they were saying, these things do exist,

607
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 3: there is some mechanism at play. We just don't know

608
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 3: how to ask the right question, which means we don't

609
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: know how to really study it. Again, it's a big

610
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 3: library just like termites and ants. So we have to

611
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 3: figure out the specific book we're looking for.

612
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's really interesting because in this case, you're

613
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: looking at you cold images of faces, and no matter

614
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: what those faces look like, they're ultimately just two dimensional

615
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 2: images on a screen. Right, And how do if those

616
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: are indeed pheromones, how would that just affect the visual

617
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 2: because as we said, we're highly visual creatures. Right, So

618
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: if you've got the I don't know. There's so many

619
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: variables at play there. If you actually had a human

620
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: we were talking about the cleanliness issue, right, if you

621
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: just had human bodies lined up that people were testing,

622
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 2: which has been done with specific pheromones being pumped into

623
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 2: a system, it would change things. But again, you would

624
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 2: have no way because the right question isn't there yet.

625
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 3: M Yeah. Really it's the art of finding the right question,

626
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: isn't it. I love that point. We know there are

627
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 3: cific studies that everybody who is familiar with this UH

628
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 3: is probably waiting for us to mention there are things

629
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 3: that indicate some kind of hidden mechanism at play. Two

630
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: of the most well known cases we're all adults here

631
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 3: are ovulation and kid the not fellow conspiracy realist. The

632
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 3: study of tears like actual wah wah emotional tears.

633
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 4: The study of tears should be like a goth band name.

634
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 4: I'm just putting that out there. Pretty good.

635
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 3: That's pretty good, man. Hey, you're the one that's good.

636
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 4: Thanks pal. Actually I'm quite sad.

637
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 3: Actually, oh, don't be sad.

638
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 2: Well, let's still let's talk about it. We humans excrete

639
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: some things, and you know, some of the primary ones

640
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: are down below.

641
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 3: We read all over the place.

642
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 4: Downstairs.

643
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 3: Excretion, Yes, the night.

644
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 4: What do they call them? Emission?

645
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: Sure, sure, we sure, lots and lots of sweat across

646
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 2: our entire body. It's one of the cool technologies that

647
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 2: mammals figured out. Many mammals figured.

648
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 4: Out, super analog. I love it.

649
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 2: It's dope. I'm getting a lot of that right now

650
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 2: on day twelve of my air conditioning being proken. But

651
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 2: like you know, it does cool stuff for us, right,

652
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: But tears are another thing that are specifically linked to

653
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 2: how one of us as an organism is doing, like

654
00:40:31,719 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 2: what's happening to us, how we're doing. It's a signal,

655
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: a visual signal for somebody else, right, for another one

656
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: of us organisms. But I wonder and you can see

657
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,359
Speaker 2: like the minds of the scientists going, I wonder if

658
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 2: that substance being leaked out of the body could actually

659
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: trigger a pheromone of some sort.

660
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 3: And it's also fair to ask, given the human eye,

661
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: given its proximity to hormone reproduction centers or hormone producing

662
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 3: centers and other like, it's in the neighborhood of the brain,

663
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. It feels like a dumb question,

664
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 3: it's important to ask. We know that there are different

665
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 3: genres of tear. There's the there's stuck in my eye.

666
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 3: I've got a piece of glass in my eye. That

667
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 3: kind of tear. Oh, I got peppery well.

668
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 5: And in those cases, the tear is designed to wash

669
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 5: the thing out of your eye or to like be

670
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 5: like a self correcting kind of little little feature, right,

671
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 5: and has a very different chemical composition as a result.

672
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 3: Interest, So an emotional tear is a whole different little

673
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 3: sippy sip of reactions.

674
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,959
Speaker 2: But it is interesting that it's a visual cue as

675
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 2: well as.

676
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: A subs Yeah, and as as we know, tears have

677
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 3: a smell. I feel like I'm accidentally saying some creepy

678
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 3: things in this show.

679
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 4: I think it's accidentally on purpose, if anything.

680
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 2: But I don't know how about the smell tears. I

681
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 2: know there's the like wipe away tears especial if you

682
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: have a kid and it's well, yeah, I mean like

683
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: accidentally or just you know, kissing somebody who's really sad.

684
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 3: Sure there's a SALTI composition. Yeah, so we're This isn't

685
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 3: just our collection of opinions and anecdotes here, folks. There

686
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: was a fairly recent study in twenty twenty three led

687
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 3: by Shanni Agrin that got weird with it. They collected tears.

688
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 3: They got about two thirds of a cup each of

689
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 3: what they called, as you would say, emotional tears, and

690
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 3: these were triggered by emotional responses rather than just having

691
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 3: something in your eye. And they got these from a

692
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:44,280
Speaker 3: small sample size of six female identifying people who also

693
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: self identified as easy criers. And then, okay, I'm the

694
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 3: ethics of this are interesting. Can someone describe what their

695
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: team found when they had the male volunteers literally smell

696
00:42:59,120 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 3: the tears.

697
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 5: Smell the tears the new album by Spinal Tap. Yeah,

698
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 5: our Agron's team had mail volunteers snarfed the scent, as

699
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 5: you put it, then of those tears, and in doing so,

700
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 5: they found the parts of the male brain linking aggression

701
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 5: and smell lit right.

702
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 4: On up and followed by a drop in testosterone levels.

703
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 5: It just makes you, It jennels you up a little bit,

704
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 5: doesn't it. You know, it makes you a little cuddlier.

705
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 2: And a drop in aggression by forty three point seven percent.

706
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: That's huge. And I just wonder if you guys have

707
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: you know, not to make it anecdotal, but if you

708
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 2: guys have ever been in that situation where you're upset

709
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: about something and someone you're upset with begins to cry,

710
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 2: All yeah, I feel that's that thing where everything switches

711
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 2: and you're now in protector mode, right.

712
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:53,839
Speaker 5: Which can also be weaponized by the way these you know,

713
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 5: by certain manipulating types. Let's just say crocodile tears. I

714
00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 5: think they call them.

715
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,360
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, God, I love English a fascinating language. The

716
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 3: further aspect here is that the team was able to

717
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 3: identify where this happened, where these chemicals right that they

718
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 3: were the male volunteers were interacting with when they were snarfing,

719
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 3: where they were hitting in that body, and there are

720
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: four specific olfactory receptors that latched on to this mystery

721
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 3: protein in those emotional tears. It appears there's something to this,

722
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 3: and I think maybe at this point we continue further

723
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 3: into the breach, because some of the most fundamental research

724
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 3: on the mystery of human pheromones comes not from tears,

725
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 3: not from colones, but from ovulation. What do you guys say,

726
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 3: should we take a break and then dive into this one?

727
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, swim in an ocean of tears.

728
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: Of tears, and we have returned speaking of hidden mechanisms.

729
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: As we said, two of the most well known, scientifically

730
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 3: fascinating genres of exploration here are tears and ovulation. In fact,

731
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 3: one of the first and most famous modern attempts to

732
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,920
Speaker 3: prove that human pheromones exist come to us from an

733
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 3: absolute powerhouse researcher Martha McClintock. In the nineteen sixties. McClintock

734
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 3: is a student at Wesley College and she notices something

735
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 3: strange the semester starts. She's got door mates, of course,

736
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 3: and this is a place where all the people in

737
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 3: the dorm are women. She notices they have different menstrual cycles.

738
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 3: At the start of the semester. You fast forward toward

739
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,479
Speaker 3: the end of the semester three four months and their

740
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: menstrue cycles have appeared to sync up, as if by magic.

741
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: Why how does that happen? And I think a lot

742
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 3: of us in the crowd tonight have experienced that firsthand.

743
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 3: Have you guys ever heard about this phenomena.

744
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 5: I've not witnessed this phenomenon personally, but I certainly have

745
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 5: heard you know, myths around it, and I do wonder

746
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 5: if it is sort of like some of those lunar

747
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 5: sinking things that get talked about, if like is a

748
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 5: real phenomenon, or if it is maybe a little circumstantial.

749
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,719
Speaker 2: I would just say I've seen this kind of thing

750
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 2: happen before, even on family trips and stuff, when there

751
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 2: are a lot of women in the house and is

752
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 2: a longer period of time, and then strangely enough, the

753
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,800
Speaker 2: cycles move forward or backward and then they get really

754
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,759
Speaker 2: close to each other. And again that's an anecdote, but

755
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 2: it's just kind of what I've seen well, And in

756
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: this case, we're talking about the all of the women

757
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: together experiencing I don't know, a cycle shift and synchronization.

758
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 2: What does it have to do with pair moost? Do

759
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 2: we think that the pheromones of someone who is entering

760
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 2: a specific part of like going into ovulation, would then

761
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: trigger other females around them to also go into ovulation.

762
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 3: That's a question, right, because correlation does not equate to causation.

763
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 3: But this is a good branch of inquiry, right. All

764
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 3: scientists are again essentially detectives, and mcclin block is raising

765
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 3: some of the same questions. We have. What's happening, Let's

766
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 3: look for clues. We have people who are all experiencing

767
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 3: at this point a menstrual cycle. Yeah. One, but they're

768
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 3: all in close proximity because they live together. Two, which

769
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 3: means they're exposed to all those things that you're exposed

770
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 3: to when you hang out with other people, skin flakes, sweat,

771
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 3: you know, urine smells, things like that. So to your

772
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 3: question that could there be something that is interacting some process?

773
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 3: She is already in the nineteen sixties, of course, as

774
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 3: a scientists, she's already well aware of the concept of

775
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 3: pheromones and non human animals. So she says, what else

776
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: could explain this? Right? Could it be some like gravitational

777
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 3: effect of the moon? She likes pheromones for it. She says,

778
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 3: there's got to be something, and she continues this work

779
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 3: for decades and decades. Her initial findings are technically still

780
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 3: a subject of debate, but it launched a global search

781
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 3: for answers. It's a search that continues today. There's a

782
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: great professor named Lei Shing Sun who wrote for Psychology

783
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 3: Today a while back and said the following quote. Plenty

784
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,480
Speaker 3: of other studies have struggled to replicate but Clintox findings.

785
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 3: Critics have pointed fingers at everything from statistical slip ups

786
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 3: to pure chance, and just like that, the groundbreaking first

787
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 3: evidence of human pheromones starts to look shaky. Now we

788
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 3: are Leafolk, We are not the boffins in this field

789
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: of expertise. But I don't know, man. It's like that

790
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 3: old question with a true crime investigation, what's the threshold

791
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 3: of circumstance? How much circumstantial evidence can accrete before it

792
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 3: looks a lot like proof of something?

793
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, or excrete perhaps?

794
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 3: Yes? Sorry, well the horse secrete?

795
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 4: Yes? Yeah.

796
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,080
Speaker 2: I would say mental cycles are such an interesting thing

797
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 2: to study when when I'm thinking about it compared to

798
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 2: the tears study, because the way our society has for

799
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 2: a long time and continues to kind of hide the

800
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 2: menstrual cycle, right.

801
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 3: Verified of it and shame shame people for it.

802
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, But but it's just such a hidden thing

803
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 2: in the world and in culture, and when you're walking

804
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: around and existing in the world, anyone who's experiencing a

805
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 2: mental cycle and anyone who's not experiencing it, it just

806
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 2: doesn't exist at least visually unless you know, you see

807
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 2: like generally the trash or you know, if you're cleaning

808
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 2: bathrooms and things like that, you're never even going to

809
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 2: encounter it, or maybe doing laundry or something. But I'm

810
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 2: just it's an interesting thing to study because it wouldn't

811
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: have the same visual cues that crying would associated with

812
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,720
Speaker 2: and attached to it. So if there is something happening,

813
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 2: I would say it's much more likely that there's some

814
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 2: unseen central pheromon pheromonal thing at play.

815
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 3: Also, and this is with respect to our non binary friends.

816
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 3: What makes ovulation scientifically fascinating is that in this particular study,

817
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 3: it removes males from the equation right there. There's not

818
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 3: a study that mcclint locke has at this point where

819
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 3: she's asking, what if we have ten dudes living in

820
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 3: that same dorm, how does that affect things? So there

821
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 3: are a lot of questions, Well, we're seeing appears to

822
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 3: be a natural phenomenon, and please conspiracy realist right to

823
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 3: us about this, and it seems that it it occurs

824
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 3: fairly consistent. That's the one big thing. Like a lot

825
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 3: of us in the crowd to night have experienced this

826
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 3: phenomenon measured in this study, or you've got your own

827
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 3: experiences with it firsthand, or you've heard about it, and

828
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 3: the question is why and how does that mechanism exist.

829
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 3: I think it's it's fascinating because, oh gosh, like twenty

830
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 3: seven years after her initial study, mcclintlock has another groundbreaking

831
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 3: study where she says, I've found that small amounts of

832
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 3: these different chemicals, these different protein structures do have some

833
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 3: sort of effect on human behavior. The question then becomes

834
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 3: what effect, why? How long does it last? So I

835
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 3: know a lot of us go into these kind of

836
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:00,439
Speaker 3: things skeptical, and there's a reason for that. But the

837
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 3: art of skepticism is admitting when something does appear to

838
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 3: have sand right, not just zealously saying no, I don't

839
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 3: like it, poopy doupe, sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw

840
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 3: I saw a TikTok Reel or whatever the hell they

841
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,359
Speaker 3: call him of like really bad freestyle wrap battles, And

842
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 3: there was this unfortunate young lady that said something to

843
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 3: the effect of doop de poop or something like that.

844
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 4: Remember when Kanye did a poopy doop thing? Sorry, I

845
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,839
Speaker 4: got you rail there. Big Friday energy, y'all.

846
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Big Friday Energy. Now I'm gonna have to

847
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 3: look that up.

848
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 4: I'll try to find it. It was really funny.

849
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 5: At one point, she makes a really bad rhyme involving

850
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 5: the discovery of DNA and.

851
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 3: The double helix and the double helix. I remember there

852
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 3: was this is so unrelated, but no, I remember distinctly.

853
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: In my battle wrap days, we used to boo people

854
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 3: who thought the smartest thing you could say in a

855
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 3: battle was super califragilistic xpialidocious, just because it has a

856
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 3: lot of syllables in it.

857
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 2: Super califragilistic xp atrocious.

858
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, super califragilistic extra urindoses for the science in there.

859
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:25,640
Speaker 3: Just pan track.

860
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 4: I found this.

861
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 5: She says, whooped de do do you got?

862
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 3: Well?

863
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 4: You got to see the delivery.

864
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 5: She's also wearing like a kind of a reppropriated childlike

865
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 5: Native American headdress all.

866
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 4: The time and as very white.

867
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, well I'll send it along for.

868
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, on your behalf.

869
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 3: I need to see the visual cues I guess they'd say,

870
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 3: and how it's being said. Okay, all right, So anyway,

871
00:53:55,160 --> 00:54:00,439
Speaker 3: look here we find the potential armpit falls. We could

872
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 3: call them of pheromone science and humans. There's a lot enough. Hey, hey,

873
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 3: we serve at the pleasure of the language. Yeah, there's

874
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 3: a lot of quackery afoot a pit about a boot.

875
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 3: Some of it is by well intentioned, if misguided people,

876
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 3: and some of it is sold as a grift by

877
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 3: straight up charlatan's who are in love with your money

878
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 3: and think you should break up with your money. So

879
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 3: we should look at some potential missteps. I didn't know

880
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 3: this until checking out an excellent Skeptoid episode from last year.

881
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 3: We don't always get along with the skeptoid folks for

882
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 3: a number of reasons, but in twenty twenty four they

883
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 3: had an episode on pet pheromone products. I heard of

884
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:52,279
Speaker 3: callman sprays, yeah, but I hadn't heard of straight up

885
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 3: pet pheromone products. Yeah.

886
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 4: To what end I guess is my question.

887
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 5: I don't know about this, this particular niche either.

888
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 2: You guys a as cat owners, you need to learn

889
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: about this.

890
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 3: They do.

891
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 2: You've seen those little fragrance things that you can plug

892
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,359
Speaker 2: into your wall, like glade plugins or whatever they're called.

893
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 4: I have tons of them to get rid of the

894
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 4: cat piece men.

895
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 2: Well, there are specific ones that you can buy, and

896
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 2: I've had them in my home before that give off

897
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 2: allegedly some kind of calming cat pheromone sense thing that

898
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 2: makes cats more chill and not afraid.

899
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 4: I need this.

900
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 5: I'm looking it up right now for Amazon Prime Day.

901
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 3: It's always Amazon Prime, it's always lobster Fest, it's always Halloween.

902
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 4: And cat pheromone diffusers.

903
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:47,200
Speaker 3: So these pet pheromone products, as Skeptoid notes, they claim

904
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 3: to solve every imaginal problem archie, anxiety, angression, poopy pee.

905
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:55,839
Speaker 4: So you're saying they don't work because I just ordered something.

906
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. The thing is there's no real oversight on these

907
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 3: claims for these products as applied to non human or

908
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 3: indeed to human animals. This is not saying this is

909
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 3: so important we have to say this on air. This

910
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,760
Speaker 3: is not saying they automatically cannot work. This is saying

911
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 3: there is no regulatory mechanism to ensure that they do work.

912
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 3: And I personally, I imagine the placebo effect is a

913
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 3: play in at least some of these cases, meaning that

914
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 3: in the case of pet pheromone products, the owner unconsciously

915
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 3: changes their behavior which reflects upon the behavior of their pets.

916
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:38,040
Speaker 4: Whatever it takes, man.

917
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 3: Right, And I mean, secondly, I agree with you al

918
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,840
Speaker 3: And secondly, probably more important for the humans here listening tonight,

919
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 3: it's going to be human pheromone products. Similar to the

920
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 3: pet situation. This stuff purports the change behavior of living

921
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,080
Speaker 3: humans around you, but in this case, the emphasis is

922
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:03,040
Speaker 3: not on changing how people poop. It's on sex. Baby,

923
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 3: That's that's what the humans.

924
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:06,360
Speaker 4: Finally, we're getting to the sex panther.

925
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, what if you could walk

926
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 2: into a social situation and like the club, perhaps the club,

927
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 2: and and just you know, people are immediately attracted you.

928
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 2: We've been talking about the whole show. I did, guys,

929
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 2: bring I bought. I purchased three different colognes here that

930
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 2: are allegedly pheromone colognes. They're titled Raw, Vigor, and Midnight.

931
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 2: I've tested them all out on humans and just myself

932
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 2: and my dog. She was not interested whatsoever in just

933
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 2: the smells. But then humans did find that they smelled

934
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: like cologne better than just my you know, sweaty self.

935
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 2: So well, yeah, I don't know.

936
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 4: But did they instantly want to make sweet love to you?

937
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 2: Well not really, I would have to say that. Unfortunately.

938
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 2: Well I don't think so, because my question is like.

939
00:57:57,520 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 5: If what are these claims and to your point then

940
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,479
Speaker 5: about the pet stuff, is there FDA oversight of these

941
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,360
Speaker 5: claims of human pheromonals and where the hell are they.

942
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 4: Getting them from? Who are they extracting these from?

943
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 6: This is all off by children, so this is uh yeah, sorry,

944
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 6: I'll just seeing that this is all off my favorite

945
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 6: new album.

946
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 3: Yes, you're you're right. It's a great question. There is

947
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 3: absolutely no regulatory or medical oversight to the purported efficacy

948
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 3: of these claims because the science isn't there at all.

949
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 3: So you could you could say that maybe we sound

950
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 3: like we're woop deepooh poohing the idea of that coding

951
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,840
Speaker 3: yourself in these substances, we'll make other people find you

952
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 3: more attractive, more interesting, more captivating, or dryly put spray

953
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 3: this junk on you appear to be a more advantageous

954
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 3: candidate for reproduction.

955
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 5: Well spray made those claims too, Oh sure, Like in

956
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,520
Speaker 5: the back in the day, that was a big selling

957
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:06,080
Speaker 5: point of the axe body spray.

958
00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 3: Some of the old Pheromone clone actually openly advertised that

959
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,680
Speaker 3: add thoroughbred horse sweat and stuff like that, Matt, do

960
00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 3: you want to do you have the active ingredients for?

961
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 3: Let's go with maybe Midnight or raw?

962
00:59:19,080 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 2: Uh Raw is made with real bits of panther, so

963
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 2: you know it's good, just kidding. Raw doesn't say anything

964
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: about what's inside mysterious. Well, the name is the ingredient. Yeah,

965
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 2: maybe so perhaps you know they it could have regular

966
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 2: stuff that you'd find on the what is it the

967
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 2: scent wheel or whatever the heck that thing is that

968
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:43,680
Speaker 2: you can look at, which is really cool actually, And

969
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:47,240
Speaker 2: what are the notes, Matt? Where are the notes? The

970
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 2: fragrance wheel, that's what it's called. I don't know what

971
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,880
Speaker 2: the notes are. I couldn't tell you. It smells weird

972
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,800
Speaker 2: to me, very musky, all of these do?

973
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 3: Okay?

974
00:59:56,480 --> 00:59:57,040
Speaker 2: Musquite?

975
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 4: Are you all familiar with a novel that I believe

976
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 4: was called Perfume?

977
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 3: Yes, I Love? Recommended to me by Matt Riddle for

978
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 3: end of the show.

979
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a film version of it that I think

980
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 5: is quite good from the director of Run Lola Run.

981
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 5: And it's about a perfume mia or whatever who can't smell.

982
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 5: And it's sort of like the whole point of it

983
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 5: is he's like this Beethoven type figure.

984
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:24,920
Speaker 4: Who was it a Beethoven who went deaf?

985
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 5: Anyway, the idea is his medium that he is so

986
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 5: passionate about is the thing that he cannot himself experience

987
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 5: and he becomes in the in the course of the

988
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 5: of the story, uh, insane.

989
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 4: In a serial killer type.

990
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 5: And it's the guy that plays him in the movie

991
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 5: is the voice of Paddington, who I really like a

992
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 5: lot whose name is Escaping Me. But there's a Nirvana

993
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 5: song based on this work the book called Scentless Apprentice,

994
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 5: which I've always thought was very striking name. So yeah,

995
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 5: check out Perfume. It's interesting kind of rumination on a

996
01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 5: lot of these things. It goes into this idea of

997
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:01,919
Speaker 5: a traction and where all these things come from.

998
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Matt Riddle, I don't know if you listen to

999
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 3: the show, but thank you again for recommending that book.

1000
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 3: I actually I reread it. Yeah, this is and shout

1001
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 3: out to Dylan too for the Nirvada recommendation here in

1002
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 3: the chat that you mentioned as well. Nol, I think

1003
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 3: you've got some parallel thinking. Here's the question, is this

1004
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 3: all a cynical grift? Does any of this work? We're

1005
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 3: gonna ask that question because a lot of us in

1006
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,640
Speaker 3: the audience tonight might be too embarrassed to ask aloud,

1007
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 3: right because your friends and your peer group and your

1008
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 3: cohort will naturally say, why are you so interested, creepy dudes?

1009
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:41,160
Speaker 3: Here's the answer, record scratch. If we could get one

1010
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 3: of those tennessee perfect, thank you, record scratch. Yes, sometimes

1011
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 3: it does work caveat asterisk. Probably not for the reasons

1012
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:53,080
Speaker 3: listed on the label. And if you buy someone with labels,

1013
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 3: there's no arguing that people have tried this stuff countless times,

1014
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 3: and you can find all these anecdotes of them saying

1015
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 3: in testimony from their own reports that they experienced measurable results. Why.

1016
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 3: That's why we had to hammer hard on the pet

1017
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 3: pheromone thing.

1018
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 6: The elephant in the nose here is the placebo effect.

1019
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:20,360
Speaker 6: If you believe that you have access to something that

1020
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 6: gives you an edge, that it can cause you to

1021
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 6: behave differently, to be more extroverted, right to exhibit body

1022
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 6: language chest confidence, yeah.

1023
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 3: Chin up, which is a diminishing perturn. If you've ever

1024
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,640
Speaker 3: seen someone with their gin too high and their chest

1025
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 3: do out anyway, it looks odd, does look odd, it

1026
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:45,600
Speaker 3: looks weird. I guess it looks confident. But these might

1027
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 3: be little infintesimal adjustments, but they do add up. And

1028
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 3: as another recent study argues, confidence plus extraversion or two

1029
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 3: of the main six factors, and what people across the

1030
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 3: lobe considered cool. That's a fun study too. So maybe

1031
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 3: you apply this substance worse sweat after dark or whatever,

1032
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 3: and you are now incentivized you feel better about yourself,

1033
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 3: like you just had a new haircut, and you were

1034
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 3: also further going to test it to see if you've

1035
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 3: got your money's worth. So now you're more likely to

1036
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 3: seek out new company to boldly explore whether or not

1037
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 3: you got grifted right. And that means you're going to

1038
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 3: be more likely to speak to people that you may

1039
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:35,760
Speaker 3: not have spoken with earlier, or you are more likely

1040
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 3: to engage more deeply in an interaction. You know what

1041
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 3: I mean. I think that's that's a huge part of it.

1042
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, what do you say, Ben Colonne is something to

1043
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 5: be discovered, not an ounce announce. I go for the

1044
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 5: minorist of sprints. I kind of spray it in the

1045
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 5: air and then waft my hand through it, as opposed

1046
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 5: to spring it directly on my body.

1047
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 2: That's the way it's happened, right, And we know through

1048
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 2: the science of scent that it works with your scent,

1049
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 2: whatever that thing is that you're spraying on you to

1050
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:11,400
Speaker 2: create whatever somebody experiences from the outside.

1051
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 3: Right. I do love the note about smell because, as

1052
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 3: we said at the top, this is one of, if

1053
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 3: not the primary, encoder of relived experience in the human

1054
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 3: brain what we'll call memory. And we don't have the

1055
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 3: time to do it tonight. Maybe we can do it later,

1056
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 3: but right now, for example, if I named a smell

1057
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 3: and we really took the time to describe it, then

1058
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 3: we in the audience would be transported back to us.

1059
01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 3: It would trigger you toward a series of specific memories

1060
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 3: and images, and those in turn would trigger emotive responses,

1061
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 3: and it would trigger a primed state based on your

1062
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 3: experience of those memories, which is why longtime romantic partners

1063
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 3: like each other's smells. This is why, this is part

1064
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 3: of why businesses and casinos and stores will pipe in

1065
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 3: artificial smells to prime you, to put you in that

1066
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:07,320
Speaker 3: cognitive place, to trigger a potential purpose.

1067
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 2: There's just this I'm imagining a place like that is

1068
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 2: pumping in smells like that, right, but it's specifically actual

1069
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 2: pheromones or something. Just everybody walks into that store, just in.

1070
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:19,680
Speaker 3: A bang room.

1071
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, got a problem, oh dear, Well, you know it's interesting.

1072
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 5: I mean, you're talking about the emotional connections and the

1073
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 5: sense memory of smell. It is another fun thought experiment

1074
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:33,040
Speaker 5: where if you were to quote unquote describe a smell,

1075
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 5: could you do it without describing other smells?

1076
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 4: Like at a.

1077
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 5: Certain point, you would need to do it from a

1078
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:44,320
Speaker 5: completely emotional uh perspective, which I think is fascinating.

1079
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:47,400
Speaker 3: I think you could pull it off. This is one

1080
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 3: of those great writing experiments to know, because I know

1081
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 3: you can pull it off through hacking other sensory inputs.

1082
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 3: Touch specific words will conjure the smell without necessarily referring

1083
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 3: to the smell. A more difficult version of that is,

1084
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 3: how do we describe a color exactly? You know? Right?

1085
01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 3: So it's really fun and it'll help you become a

1086
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 3: better writer for any writers in the audience.

1087
01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 5: And that's why Perfume is such a fascinating read and watch,

1088
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 5: because it deals with a lot of these themes that

1089
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 5: we're talking. I mean, it's dark, by the way, Like

1090
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 5: like I mentioned, I hope I made that clear.

1091
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,360
Speaker 4: It's not a heroic main character. Nah, it's a bad dude.

1092
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,760
Speaker 4: But it is a very interesting dissection of like some

1093
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,520
Speaker 4: of these senses and the way they connect to emotion

1094
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:36,160
Speaker 4: and memory.

1095
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 3: And there's so so much more to the story here.

1096
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 3: Pheromones are by any measure, non human animals and human

1097
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 3: animals alike. This is an evolutionary conspiracy. The real question

1098
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 3: then becomes our humans knowingly or not somehow in on

1099
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 3: the game. It could be that our human friends don't

1100
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 3: omit or react to pheromones quite the same way that

1101
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 3: other creatures do. Or maybe not all humans are equal

1102
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 3: in their transmission or ability to receive these chemical signals.

1103
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 3: Maybe it's largely vestigial, you know, like your gallbladder.

1104
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,960
Speaker 5: Aheah, yeah yeah, tonsils are wisdom, teeth.

1105
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:20,600
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, or tails right right, right right. We'd love

1106
01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:23,200
Speaker 3: to hear your experiences with this. If you're a scientist

1107
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 3: in pheromones or related fields, we'd love for you to

1108
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,240
Speaker 3: write to us. Maybe the one thing to take away

1109
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think the one thing to take

1110
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 3: it away here for anybody who is traveling the haphazard

1111
01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:41,200
Speaker 3: roads of romance and love, hygiene clean yourself like. Hygiene

1112
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 3: is by all accounts, even more important than confidence when

1113
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 3: it comes to human to human attraction.

1114
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 4: No question it.

1115
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:53,439
Speaker 2: Or maybe don't clean yourself a little bit, Maybe work

1116
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 2: out a little bit, work up.

1117
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:58,560
Speaker 5: A sweat, yeah, and then take that shower because it.

1118
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,160
Speaker 2: Feels so good, and then work up a sweat again

1119
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 2: because we got we got to use the sweat as

1120
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 2: maybe pheromones.

1121
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 4: And then shower again.

1122
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 5: Guys, I'm sorry, Matt, I think we're we're operating on

1123
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 5: counter purposes.

1124
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 3: Well is the attracting question. Yeah, Hygiene's not necessarily smell.

1125
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 3: Hygiene's also I mean, clean your breath right, clean your

1126
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 3: mouth if you can. A hygiene is much more than that.

1127
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 3: You can find various reports from any side of the

1128
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 3: romantic spectrum that says confidence is great, but also showing

1129
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 3: you can take care of yourself is phenomenal and Unfortunately

1130
01:08:36,120 --> 01:08:39,599
Speaker 3: a lot of people find that to be somewhat an

1131
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 3: extraordinary concept. Anyway, we got your back, fellow conspiracy realists.

1132
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,719
Speaker 3: Good luck out there. We would say break a leg,

1133
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 3: but come on, in this economy, tell us your thoughts.

1134
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 4: You can afford it.

1135
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could always write to us, give us a call.

1136
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 3: If you sip those social medis, you can find us

1137
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:57,400
Speaker 3: on the lines.

1138
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 5: Find us of the handle conspiracy stuff. We exist on

1139
01:09:00,280 --> 01:09:02,799
Speaker 5: Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy,

1140
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,439
Speaker 5: on x FKA, Twitter, and on YouTube with video content

1141
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:11,320
Speaker 5: glor for perusing enjoyment on Instagram and TikTok where conspiracy

1142
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 5: stuff show and there's more.

1143
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,160
Speaker 2: Yes, we have a phone number. It is one eight

1144
01:09:15,320 --> 01:09:19,599
Speaker 2: three three st d WYTK. When you call in, give

1145
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 2: yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we

1146
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:23,640
Speaker 2: can use your name and message on the air. If

1147
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 2: you'd like to send us an email.

1148
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:28,720
Speaker 3: We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence.

1149
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 3: We receive the spell it be well aware, yet unafraid.

1150
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 3: Sometimes the void writes back when nothing else subsists from

1151
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 3: the past, after the people are dead, after the things

1152
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 3: are broken and scattered, the smell and taste of things

1153
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:45,880
Speaker 3: remain poised a long time, like souls conspiracy at iHeartRadio

1154
01:09:46,160 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 3: dot com.

1155
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:07,719
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

1156
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1157
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,560
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.