Speaker 1: Pushkin as a happiness researcher. I'm grateful to live in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, a time when there's been an explosion
Speaker 1: of conversations about the importance of taking care of your
Speaker 1: well being. But we're honestly still in the early stages
Speaker 1: of breaking the silence around to mental health issues that
Speaker 1: so many of us struggle with, and in some communities,
Speaker 1: the stigma against dealing with these issues still runs deep. Men,
Speaker 1: for example, are much less likely than women to seek
Speaker 1: counseling or treatment for mental health challenges, and among athletes,
Speaker 1: that stigma can be even higher. I've seen this firsthand
Speaker 1: with my student athletes at Yale. Many of them hold
Speaker 1: themselves to incredibly high standards, both in the classroom and
Speaker 1: on the field. Many of them worry that admitting to
Speaker 1: mental struggles could seem like a weakness or proof that
Speaker 1: they're not fit to play. It often takes someone accomplished, respected,
Speaker 1: and at the top of their game to model vulnerability
Speaker 1: and open these conversations up for others. Fortunately, I'm lucky
Speaker 1: to have one of those figures here today, five time
Speaker 1: NBA All Star Kevin Love, who I was thrilled to
Speaker 1: speak with even though I'm a Boston Celtics fan.
Speaker 2: I love having these conversations because I get to learn,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're not so against the Miami Heat,
Speaker 2: that we can have.
Speaker 3: That conversation continue. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: This week marks the beginning of Kevin's eighteenth season in
Speaker 1: the NBA. I should note that even though he was
Speaker 1: playing for the Miami Heat at the time this was recorded,
Speaker 1: he was recently traded to the Utah Jazz. I spoke
Speaker 1: with Kevin about his experiences with grief, anxiety, and depression
Speaker 1: and how he went from keeping those struggles private to
Speaker 1: becoming a public leader in the mental health space.
Speaker 4: So we usually start with an introduction, So can I
Speaker 4: just have you introduce yourself and to all our listeners.
Speaker 2: What you do. Yeah, last night we had to describe
Speaker 2: how we looked, you know, people with disabilities in the
Speaker 2: blind Oh yeah, funny, Like I'm Kevin Love. I'm thirty six,
Speaker 2: but I have gray hair and blue eyes and very tall,
Speaker 2: very tall, and yeah, I was like I'm six. I
Speaker 2: literally did say that. I'm like, I'm six a plus,
Speaker 2: but my contract height once said I was six' ten
Speaker 2: and MAYBE i, Shrunk BUT i. Digress, Sorry Now I'm
Speaker 2: Kevin love ball, player professional athlete in THE nba for seventeen.
Speaker 2: Years i'll be haating into my eighteenth. Year i'm not
Speaker 2: the best at, intros But i'm a father of two,
Speaker 2: girls one that just turned two years, old another that
Speaker 2: is four, Months my Wife, kate and a beautiful six
Speaker 2: year old puppy Named. Vestri who is you. Know they
Speaker 2: say you live longer when you have. Dogs so very
Speaker 2: good for my mental. Life so it gets me. Outside
Speaker 2: and that's what unconditional love looks.
Speaker 4: Like So i'm curious to hear how you get started in.
Speaker 4: BASKETBALL i understand that a lot of. Ways it started
Speaker 4: with your Dad's, yeah tell me about.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah so my dad he played three years The
Speaker 2: university Of, oregon was drafted ninth in nineteen seventy one
Speaker 2: by The Baltimore. Bullets played for The lakers as, well
Speaker 2: played for The, hawks played for The spurs and short.
Speaker 2: Stints and you, know he was my first. Hero he
Speaker 2: was like a giant to. Me he was a protector
Speaker 2: and he's six'. NINE imposing, i mean it would have
Speaker 2: been great IN today's nba because he, could run he,
Speaker 2: could jump he. Could shoot have photos that, you know
Speaker 2: date back to nineteen eighty EIGHT when i, was Born
Speaker 2: and i'm in my stroller with, the basketball and, you
Speaker 2: know from, Then on i'm just kind of looking at
Speaker 2: everything that my, dad did try to, emulate HIM and
Speaker 2: i just wanted to just mimic his every move and
Speaker 2: just wanted basketball to be a part of.
Speaker 3: My life it was truly my.
Speaker 4: FIRST love i can imagine that makes you love basketball.
Speaker 4: A lot i can also imagine that comes with a lot.
Speaker 2: Of, pressure yeah it, certainly did Especially in portland being
Speaker 2: not a. BIG city i was a big fish in
Speaker 2: a small pond, very early and that came with a lot,
Speaker 2: of expectation and with a father who played at the,
Speaker 2: highest level compete at the, highest level having Gone To,
Speaker 2: universus oregon just a little bit down the Road, in
Speaker 2: eugene there was certainly a lot. Of pressure i'm still
Speaker 2: learning to unpack the weight of expectations for the last
Speaker 2: at least, twenty years because when it came to my
Speaker 2: early teenage years in primarily, high school there was certainly
Speaker 2: a lot. Of that so there was a lot, of
Speaker 2: pressure and a lot Of that i'm. Thankful for but
Speaker 2: on the other side, of that there was an ugliness,
Speaker 2: to it and at, THAT age i didn't have the
Speaker 2: language to be able to EXPRESS what i, was feeling
Speaker 2: and especially as a, YOUNG man i just had the
Speaker 2: playbook to bury it and compartmentalize and try and be
Speaker 2: stoic within my masculinity and. My feelings and that drove
Speaker 2: me to be pretty emotion phobic over the course, of time.
Speaker 4: Which must have been especially HARD because i know you've
Speaker 4: talked about kind of the anxiety you experienced early on.
Speaker 4: In life you had this quote where you noted that
Speaker 4: your default setting was often one. Of, Dread yes i'm
Speaker 4: sure a lot of folks listening right now can recognize
Speaker 4: the signs, of anxiety but how did that manifest for you?
Speaker 2: Early? On well AND when i speak, about that it's
Speaker 2: dread because my whole entire identity was built up to
Speaker 2: be just a. Basketball player and HOW am i going
Speaker 2: to work myself out of this depression or. This anxiety,
Speaker 2: i'm LIKE if i can just get that one, more
Speaker 2: accolade or we can win one, more CHAMPIONSHIP or i
Speaker 2: can be not just the state player of, THE year
Speaker 2: i got to be the national player of.
Speaker 3: The year we have to win the.
Speaker 2: National championship in, some ways it's, like masochistic like it hurts, so,
Speaker 2: good right chase those things and, That's okay like that
Speaker 2: can be an admirable quality in. Some cases but your
Speaker 2: brain is going to, go back dopamine is going to.
Speaker 2: Go down you're going to go back to. That BASELINE
Speaker 2: and i think that's when when you think that these
Speaker 2: things are going to for lack of a, better term,
Speaker 2: fix you those anxieties and especially the dark spells, and
Speaker 2: depression those, you know emerged. From dormancy they just come,
Speaker 2: in waves and in some cases, when STILL when i,
Speaker 2: have failures it can be a house of cards and
Speaker 2: just burn down. Very quickly so that's what happened, with
Speaker 2: me and maybe even more so with.
Speaker 4: High, achievers yes and this is the kind OF thing
Speaker 4: i totally see in my Students. At, YALE right i
Speaker 4: work with a lot of amazing. Student athletes don't if
Speaker 4: they're going to play it for, the heat but, you know.
Speaker 4: We'll see, but yeah but this idea that their whole
Speaker 4: identity is caught up in, their performance that they're, you
Speaker 4: know an, athlete first a basketball, player first, you know lacrosse,
Speaker 4: player first and then a. Human, second right and then
Speaker 4: just this like incredible perfectionism where you just have to
Speaker 4: be perfect all. The time my students are fond OF
Speaker 4: This dj college SONG All i Do, is win but, it's,
Speaker 4: like well if all you do, is win then the
Speaker 4: first time, you lose it's like the whole world has
Speaker 4: crumbled down, Right right and it seemed like you were dealing,
Speaker 4: with that but also this super hyper masculine culture like
Speaker 4: where you. Grew UP but i, think also, you know
Speaker 4: having your dad in the early days of the sport
Speaker 4: where this stuff really wasn't.
Speaker 3: Talked about and it's.
Speaker 2: GENERATIONAL too i mean there's some generational trauma within. MY family,
Speaker 2: I Mean brian wilson just died. As well and, you
Speaker 2: know my dad was the caretaker in a Bodyguard for
Speaker 2: brian when he had struggled with. Substance abuse and just to, Be,
Speaker 2: clear brian you're. A becaus, You Know beach boys were
Speaker 2: started in a Garage, In, hawthorne california and it was,
Speaker 2: you Know the. Love's side their cousins Were, the wilsons
Speaker 2: and It, was brian and It, was carl and It
Speaker 2: was dennis and it was, you know My, uncle mike
Speaker 2: and they Created The west coast sound and you know
Speaker 2: he dealt with his share of mental health problems as
Speaker 2: WELL as i mean. THE loves I think i've always
Speaker 2: been prone to melancholy and, dark spells dating back almost
Speaker 2: a hundred, YEARS now i keep looking back and unpeeling
Speaker 2: layers of all of That where, i'm, like yes this
Speaker 2: helps tell.
Speaker 3: The story it.
Speaker 2: Is generational and that was something that my DAD and
Speaker 2: i spoke about towards the end of, his life when
Speaker 2: he was. In hospice we really finally opened up. About
Speaker 2: it his emotional regulation was never quite there because of
Speaker 2: his father being a, physical father and so when my
Speaker 2: dad was, in hospice he started seeing some of those
Speaker 2: things in his dreams and a lot of those memories
Speaker 2: had come up in a very. Ugly way but it
Speaker 2: allowed him to be a lot more vulnerable and. Face
Speaker 2: it but it was him coming to peace with how.
Speaker 2: He lived the true lesson that he taught me through all,
Speaker 2: of this as well as. Our relationship we were in
Speaker 2: strange for a number, of years and, you know he
Speaker 2: taught me two true wisdoms that were reconciliation and forgiveness.
Speaker 4: As well it's so great that you were able to
Speaker 4: reconcile with your father before, he passed and also kind
Speaker 4: of come to terms with the fact that he struggled
Speaker 4: with emotion regulation and it wasn't.
Speaker 2: His FAULT well i get, it, NOW yeah i, Get
Speaker 2: it like it all. Makes sense he did the best
Speaker 2: that he could and he, wasn't equipped and there's such.
Speaker 2: A stigma there's, still stigma huge stigma around speaking about
Speaker 2: mental health and WHAT am i going to do? After
Speaker 2: basketball what if there's nothing for me after? My sport
Speaker 2: and my dad certainly fought, as WELL and i think
Speaker 2: he felt like he, failed OFTEN but i kept, TELLING him, I,
Speaker 2: go dad all you wanted at the end of your
Speaker 2: life was your kids to be there when, you passed
Speaker 2: and for mom to be here when you pass and
Speaker 2: to be at home and to die. At HOME and, I,
Speaker 2: go dad. You're successful you. Are enough, you're here your kids.
Speaker 2: Are here we want to. Be here and success is
Speaker 2: having your kids come home like. We're here we got you.
Speaker 3: So awesome, i'm like. You're successful you can die, knowing
Speaker 3: that like.
Speaker 4: You're, good yeah it's so cool to hear you, say
Speaker 4: that because it feels like that must have been such hard, one,
Speaker 4: knowledge right like hearing about how things. Started off it really,
Speaker 4: was like don't talk about your. Mental health even as
Speaker 4: your dad was Dealing With, brian wilson it sounds like
Speaker 4: his kind of way to deal with substance use and
Speaker 4: mental health issues, was like let's get you on, the
Speaker 4: court let's. Exercise more and this was something THAT you,
Speaker 4: i know took on early.
Speaker 2: On.
Speaker 4: Too right we often talk On The happiness lab podcast
Speaker 4: about how exercise is really good for, mental health but
Speaker 4: it seems like your exercise pushed, into like, you know
Speaker 4: trauma of perfections than his.
Speaker 2: Mental, HEALTH yes i think that in SOME ways i
Speaker 2: was killing two birds with. One STONE and i do
Speaker 2: love to, work out but there is still something There that,
Speaker 2: i'm LIKE am i doing THIS because i have to?
Speaker 2: Be Perfect or i'm doing THIS because i have to
Speaker 2: stay in?
Speaker 4: My sport and early on that was in some ways.
Speaker 4: Really reinforced because you, get very very good at. Your
Speaker 4: schools when did you first realize that you could be,
Speaker 4: a professional.
Speaker 5: Kind of like?
Speaker 3: Your dad my best friend's dad tells it all.
Speaker 2: The time first day, at preschool driving us home and,
Speaker 2: you know he kind, of, asked, you know what do
Speaker 2: you want to be when you? GROW up, I said
Speaker 2: i'm just gonna be IN the nba like, my dad
Speaker 2: and he tells a story all the time and talks
Speaker 2: about how he's like. This kid there's just something about
Speaker 2: HIM where i. ACTUALLY believed i really truly. Believed him
Speaker 2: i'm being honest. WITH you i always. Believed it there
Speaker 2: was no doubt in. My MIND and i think it.
Speaker 2: Helped that, you know the. DOCTOR said i heard them
Speaker 2: SAY when i, was young and, the pediatrician, they, said.
Speaker 3: Well he's gonna be. Very tall this is going to
Speaker 3: be a. TALL kid I knew i.
Speaker 2: HAD that i liked the idea of being tall like,
Speaker 2: my dad and being a basketball player WAS all i
Speaker 2: ever wanted. To be but it was probably around eighth
Speaker 2: grade and my freshman year of high SCHOOL when I
Speaker 2: know i played up with. MY brother i was playing
Speaker 2: two grades up, with him AND then i was playing
Speaker 2: against college players and then. Pro PLAYERS once i got into,
Speaker 2: high SCHOOL and i thought, to MYSELF if i just
Speaker 2: keep on this same track and keep this, SINGULAR focus
Speaker 2: i can have a lot. Of success and if you
Speaker 2: have to have a little bit, of luck, it's timing,
Speaker 2: it's culture, it's demographic, it's luck it's all of. These
Speaker 2: THINGS but i certainly had.
Speaker 4: That definitely involved, some luck but also involved a tremendous card. Working,
Speaker 4: skill yeah you became Super successful ariel in, your career,
Speaker 4: You Know, all star Twenty Ten, world champion twenty Ten tall.
Speaker 4: Olympic gold but in SOME ways i feel like that
Speaker 4: luck was kind of contrasted with a lot of tough
Speaker 4: stuff that happened early on in. YOUR career, i know
Speaker 4: in twenty thirteen you had a. Huge, hit yes tell me.
Speaker 2: WHAT happened i just never went through the grieving process with,
Speaker 2: my grandmother and she was the. Corner stop she was
Speaker 2: like the pillar of. Our family she lived right next
Speaker 2: door to us our, entire life and she was just.
Speaker 3: So special she didn't. Need much she just.
Speaker 2: Wanted family she wanted to volunteer at. The school she
Speaker 2: wanted to help raise, my sister who was a. Premi
Speaker 2: baby as, you know my dad worked a backbreaking job at.
Speaker 2: A warehouse but she was just the absolute rock and the.
Speaker 2: Best WOMAN and i DON'T think i appreciated it or
Speaker 2: had the presence of mind to lean into that type
Speaker 2: of a figure in, our life and she was. Right
Speaker 2: there so there was so. MUCH regret i talked about
Speaker 2: it all. The. Time regret it's more tied up in
Speaker 2: inaction rather, Than, action like of course there's THINGS that
Speaker 2: i did and especially offloaded hurt on people that were
Speaker 2: the closest to me or just did not. Deserve IT
Speaker 2: so i certainly regret, that action but the inaction of
Speaker 2: not spending more time with.
Speaker 3: My grandmother and you go.
Speaker 2: To her little cottage and you go around there and
Speaker 2: you just see photos of like everything that her family had,
Speaker 2: ever done because she understood what. Really MATTERED and i
Speaker 2: DON'T think i appreciated. THAT enough i didn't go back
Speaker 2: when she was cremated or get to grieve with my
Speaker 2: family back Home. IN portland i just kept on being
Speaker 2: with the Team. IN minnesota i was there for. SIX
Speaker 2: years i just kept being with them and lost myself.
Speaker 2: IN basketball i was just running. FROM it i didn't
Speaker 2: want to go to the extremities of, those FEELINGS so
Speaker 2: i never got to, unpack that and that manifested in
Speaker 2: my body in. Different ways the body and they. Keep
Speaker 2: score everybody loves to, say that but it's. So true in,
Speaker 2: some way shape, or form that's going to have to.
Speaker 2: Come out and, for me it was in, panic attacks
Speaker 2: it was, rage fits it, was agoraphobia and not wanting
Speaker 2: to go out for maybe fear of public embarrassment or
Speaker 2: FELT like i was doing.
Speaker 3: Something wrong and.
Speaker 4: That must have been a really awful one, to punch
Speaker 4: because my sense, is like you had, her loss but
Speaker 4: then you also had kind of a loss on. THE
Speaker 4: court i understand that you suffered an injury pretty soon, after,
Speaker 4: THAT right, i DID.
Speaker 2: And i broke, my HAND and i only played eighteen games,
Speaker 2: that YEAR and, i was, you know, suicidal gestures suicidal
Speaker 2: ideation didn't ever leave. My apartment it was kind of
Speaker 2: LIKE how i was often. GROWING up i remember just
Speaker 2: being my Room and i'd go, To school i'd go to, basketball.
Speaker 3: Practice And then i'd just kind of be. In there.
Speaker 2: YOU know i looked at my dad, as well not
Speaker 2: wanting to get out, of bed and just kind of,
Speaker 2: lay there THROW the, tv on be in a, dark
Speaker 2: room sleep, often early, and often, you know go eat
Speaker 2: at the dinner table and my mom's just. FINISHING up
Speaker 2: i would sit there with Her and i'd, be like,
Speaker 2: you know. Where's dad and.
Speaker 4: In some ways this must have been worse because this
Speaker 4: is now on the, professional stage where you're in, your
Speaker 4: room not coming out kind of recovering from. An injury
Speaker 4: and what was it like going. Through that did you
Speaker 4: talk to anybody about what you're Going?
Speaker 2: To no and my agent and he always talks. TO
Speaker 2: me i talked, to you is, Your friend i'm gonna
Speaker 2: talk to you as. Your agent but he didn't know
Speaker 2: how to speak. To me but he would, just say,
Speaker 2: you know snap out. Of it, I'm like i've never
Speaker 2: thought of. That before, oh yeah let me just snap out.
Speaker 4: OF it, i mean it's just remarkable how little people
Speaker 4: get how mental health issues.
Speaker 2: Really, work yes but now, it's like, you know, My Agent,
Speaker 2: jeff schwartz he has three beautiful daughters who Are like
Speaker 2: I'm uncle kevin NOW and i love them that he,
Speaker 2: gets it and. They're athletes, so again he's evolved and
Speaker 2: he understands it. Far more but in, TWENTY thirteen i
Speaker 2: wasn't equipped at all to deal, with IT and i
Speaker 2: didn't have the language to, express IT and i was
Speaker 2: just in bed, a lot in a dark room. A,
Speaker 2: Lot eventually kevin found a way to heal and to
Speaker 2: share his story, with others but as is often, the
Speaker 2: case things had to hit rock bottom before they.
Speaker 1: Got better when we get back from, The break i'll
Speaker 1: Talk with kevin about his very public panic attack and
Speaker 1: the viral art that detailed. His Experience The happiness lab
Speaker 1: will be back in.
Speaker 2: A moment.
Speaker 5: And so how did you wind?
Speaker 2: Up, feeling well it WASN'T until i really started doing.
Speaker 2: The work and, YOU know i it's not TO say
Speaker 2: i didn't have these like great moments and Times when
Speaker 2: i'd come out. Of it, you know maybe it was,
Speaker 2: three weeks maybe it was three months of these really,
Speaker 2: dark spells and my best friends. Didn't know but things
Speaker 2: got so much worse in our seventeen. Eighteen season, you
Speaker 2: know that very public panic attack and mental health EPISODE
Speaker 2: that i know we'll speak. About happened it got a
Speaker 2: lot worse before it. Got, better, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah so what happened to that season to make things get?
Speaker 2: Worse again it was unpacking the pressures of expectations of
Speaker 2: fifteen to twenty years and the weight of, you know
Speaker 2: an organization and ownership and the front office put in
Speaker 2: pressure that we have to win and. Win now and
Speaker 2: while we love that because it drove us to do these.
Speaker 2: Great things we went to four straight finals from fifteen.
Speaker 2: Through eighteen we won in twenty sixteen first major sports Championship.
Speaker 2: In cleveland but, YOU know i was at that time
Speaker 2: not speaking to. MY parents i was strange. From them,
Speaker 2: you know within my my love life and my, personal
Speaker 2: life things had, gone wrong as well as always feeling
Speaker 2: these things and never facing it head on and not
Speaker 2: going to therapy or having a trusted CONFIDENT that i could.
Speaker 2: SPEAK to i DON'T think i wanted to admit that
Speaker 2: there was. A problem i FELT like i was a
Speaker 2: failure of even having these feelings and that idea of
Speaker 2: masculinity and. Showing emotion of course i'd get angry and
Speaker 2: get a technical foul and that sort, of thing but
Speaker 2: in terms of, saying like, You know i'm at, home
Speaker 2: Crying or i'm at home and my anxiety is coming
Speaker 2: up in a way that is, SEVERELY unhealthy i, just
Speaker 2: said like everybody else has these problems worse, Than ME
Speaker 2: and i was, comparing GRIEF but i was also withholding
Speaker 2: compassion for myself and not having grace. Within THAT and
Speaker 2: i believe that nobody benefits from THAT that i just
Speaker 2: all bottled up into a moment and it was PUBLIC
Speaker 2: and i was on, the court it WAS. ON tv,
Speaker 2: i mean we were a team that had nationally, televised
Speaker 2: games and, You know i'd had these, feelings before these
Speaker 2: type of things, That Happened but i've always just been
Speaker 2: able to remove myself from a situation where have like
Speaker 2: rage fits in my space at home right like it
Speaker 2: manifested in. DIFFERENT ways i had nowhere, to GO so
Speaker 2: i just ran to the locker room or tried to
Speaker 2: ESCAPE like i. Always did but this is around my
Speaker 2: teammates that we're back in the. Locker room it was around.
Speaker 2: OUR trainers i Feel like i'm having. CARDIAC arrest i
Speaker 2: can't catch, MY breath i can't get oxygen to. MY
Speaker 2: brain I don't i've never had this type of attack,
Speaker 2: happened before so this is.
Speaker 3: LIFE threatening i end.
Speaker 2: Up passed out on the floor of our, Head Trainer steve,
Speaker 2: spirou's office and he's the one who finds. Me THERE
Speaker 2: so i ended. Up leaving, after that they put me.
Speaker 2: On oxygen i'm able to sit back up think, of
Speaker 2: myself what the hell? JUST happened i go and they
Speaker 2: run several tests At the, Cleveland clinic who's and still
Speaker 2: is just, so amazing and everything checks out like there's.
Speaker 2: Nothing Wrong but i'm asking, the question what?
Speaker 3: Just?
Speaker 2: Happened then is this going to? Happen again who's going
Speaker 2: to know. About it so it's like this negative feedback
Speaker 2: LOOP that i don't Know if i'm going to, survive
Speaker 2: professionally and then how is that going to now impact
Speaker 2: not only my livelihood but this safe space that was
Speaker 2: once the. Basketball court so it got a lot worse
Speaker 2: before it. Got BETTER but i think there is a
Speaker 2: lot of good that came. From that it made, Me,
Speaker 2: say okay things aren't.
Speaker 3: ADDING up i need to.
Speaker 2: Change something so it was my FIRST time i had gone,
Speaker 2: to THERAPY and i was incredibly lucky to find a.
Speaker 2: Great therapist he just said in my medication, this morning
Speaker 2: so RESPECT but i had finally come to Terms, that
Speaker 2: okay it's time to start doing.
Speaker 4: The work so amazing to hear you talk about this
Speaker 4: transition to understanding therapy and being more, self compassionate because
Speaker 4: the amazing thing about the oxygen mask that you put
Speaker 4: on is having put yours, on first you're now able
Speaker 4: to help others put their oxygen. Mask on, YOU know
Speaker 4: i know you as AN amazing, nba PLAYER but i
Speaker 4: first got really familiar with you when you became like
Speaker 4: a huge mental.
Speaker 5: Health advocate tell me about.
Speaker 4: The article that you put out in, twenty eighteen because
Speaker 4: that WAS when i first started hearing your name and
Speaker 4: learning about what you're.
Speaker 2: Up, To right so, FAST forward i go. To therapy
Speaker 2: it Was An all star. That year it's My Fifth all,
Speaker 2: star APPEARANCE and i had a great, year statistically, very,
Speaker 2: efficient statistically producing at a very. High line and then
Speaker 2: a couple of. THINGS happened i had Another Attack oklahoma
Speaker 2: CITY that i am recently just starting to speak about because,
Speaker 2: You know i've had to unpack my team kind of
Speaker 2: at the time turning. On me after, THAT game i
Speaker 2: had mispracticed the, next day and everybody, was, like, no,
Speaker 2: no we need to, address THIS and i just wasn't ready,
Speaker 2: to expose LIKE what i was going through at. The
Speaker 2: time we LEFT for I Think, san antonio AND again i.
Speaker 2: Felt isolated my anxiety went absolutely through, the ROOF and
Speaker 2: i still had to go out there, and compete AND
Speaker 2: so i FELT like i was on. An island and that,
Speaker 2: same trip we Were, IN detroit i broke, My hand
Speaker 2: so again the game was taken away. FROM me i
Speaker 2: had NO outlet i know where. To go, It's, like
Speaker 2: okay here's, a game we're paying this guy, Helps money
Speaker 2: we're supposed to go to. The finals we have no
Speaker 2: idea what's going on with. Our teammate we feel like
Speaker 2: we can't. TRUST him i think it was that as
Speaker 2: well as our our. MEDIA availability i started getting questions
Speaker 2: in front of a group about my, mental health and that,
Speaker 2: scared ME and i didn't want anybody to tell my story.
Speaker 2: BUT me i had to have it be in my,
Speaker 2: own WORDS and i told, MY agent i wrote, the
Speaker 2: same made, some adjustments only wanted to take it so
Speaker 2: far at that POINT because i.
Speaker 3: Was scared it's.
Speaker 2: REALLY scared i didn't know what this was going. To
Speaker 2: do is this going to? End everything is this going
Speaker 2: to end my? Basketball career and what is pressing send going?
Speaker 2: To DO but i THINK one i was. Just exhausted it,
Speaker 2: was EXHAUSTED and i was playing this character and putting on.
Speaker 2: THIS facade i was just tired of struggling and being
Speaker 2: in a, terrible place in silence and in. The shadows
Speaker 2: so press end and then my life inherently.
Speaker 1: Changed forever the article published in twenty eighteen In The
Speaker 1: player's tribune Was titled everyone is Going. Through something, In
Speaker 1: it kevin acknowledged his mental, health struggles describe the panic
Speaker 1: attack as a turning point and his decision to seek
Speaker 1: help and encourage others facing similar challenges to do. The
Speaker 1: same the Reaction to kevin's piece was. OVERWHELMINGLY positive i
Speaker 1: would have never.
Speaker 2: EXPECTED it, i thought in, the comments people are going, to,
Speaker 2: say like you're, a bitch and how are these guys
Speaker 2: going to be able to be with him out there
Speaker 2: on the core when he knows he struggles with this
Speaker 2: and is he just going to leave?
Speaker 3: ANOTHER game, i mean.
Speaker 2: It's primitive we're so it's ingrained in, us psychologically like
Speaker 2: to perceive. Threat FIRST and i think, as athletes criticism
Speaker 2: is a tax. On success if we do decide to
Speaker 2: go through the comments and we want to respond, to
Speaker 2: people and we go through and it's all these great
Speaker 2: things and it's like we're relating to people and there's
Speaker 2: empathy or there's just like you know that, raw rah,
Speaker 2: like yes like this, is great and then.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know you suck and we're like that's.
Speaker 3: The one, but yeah.
Speaker 2: OVERWHELMINGLY positive i think we had ten thousand plus emails
Speaker 2: in the first week we had. TO create i mean
Speaker 2: my inboxes, were full my texts, were full and then
Speaker 2: we had to create a separate email because there was
Speaker 2: just so. Many people there were so many people that
Speaker 2: had reached out and shared, their stories whether it be
Speaker 2: their first hand experience with their own mental health or
Speaker 2: their child's. Mental health that was incredibly. Eye opening. Press sad,
Speaker 2: that morning we had left for a multiple game road
Speaker 2: TRIP and i was back playing at. That point we
Speaker 2: meet at the plane three, pm DEPARTURE and i remember
Speaker 2: just sitting in, my seat throwing my, hoodie on throwing my.
Speaker 2: Headphones on, i'm like what are my teammates? Gonna think
Speaker 2: what are my teammates going? To THINK but I Remember
Speaker 2: kyle korber coming across the aisle and shaking my hand
Speaker 2: and just telling me that there's going to be. Something
Speaker 2: here you're going to make a huge difference in. People's
Speaker 2: lives and that was my first time where my shoulders had,
Speaker 2: just dropped like maybe this is going to. Be okay
Speaker 2: we'd gone through. THE flight i slept and might just
Speaker 2: like turned to the side towards the window and, you
Speaker 2: know ACTED like i. Wasn't available i'm always the first off.
Speaker 2: THE plane i like to just go and get settled
Speaker 2: on the bus and sitting there the, whole time like
Speaker 2: just get me to, my room the, bus stops everybody,
Speaker 2: gets off and then it's, You know lebron who comes,
Speaker 2: to me just kind of shakes my hand in like
Speaker 2: knowing approval and kind of wraps me up in the.
Speaker 2: Big hug and that was, you know you spend almost
Speaker 2: more time with your teammates in that space than you
Speaker 2: do your, actual family so they. Become family but that
Speaker 2: just pushed our our friendship and our brotherhood into.
Speaker 4: NEW space, i mean you're making it such that any
Speaker 4: basketball player can be more than a, basketball.
Speaker 5: Player right they can, be.
Speaker 4: Vulnerable they, can struggle and also they can have an identity.
Speaker 4: BEYOND it i think one of the amazing things is
Speaker 4: that now forever you to be known not just as
Speaker 4: an amazing, basketball player also as an advocate for these.
Speaker 4: IMPORTANT issues, i mean what does that feel like now
Speaker 4: to be kind of to have come from being so
Speaker 4: scared about talking, about this from such a hyper masculine
Speaker 4: culture to now being in some ways the face of
Speaker 4: talking about mental health.
Speaker 2: And right there is a weight, to it but at the,
Speaker 2: same time just speaking about it gives me LEVITY because
Speaker 2: i get to be an.
Speaker 3: Open book, I'm allowed i'm empowered to be.
Speaker 5: Like open, The curtain, you're like. Curtains, open yeah this IS.
Speaker 2: Who i am and this is what. You, get honestly
Speaker 2: if you don't, like it that's your problem because my
Speaker 2: intention is to help the next person and it's just
Speaker 2: authentic TO who, i am and it IS who i want,
Speaker 2: to Be and i'm, not PERFECT like i think that's
Speaker 2: the beauty of. It too it's like, with basketball you
Speaker 2: can wake up every day and, Be like i'm going to.
Speaker 2: Get better you can never get too big to do the.
Speaker 2: Little things you can never get too big to refine.
Speaker 2: Your skills and THAT'S how i feel about what we're
Speaker 2: doing here in.
Speaker 3: This space it's going.
Speaker 2: To take a, long time but, LONG term i think,
Speaker 2: legacy naturally as a, basketball player you talk about that word,
Speaker 2: A lot But now i've started to think about like
Speaker 2: legacy virtues versus.
Speaker 3: Eulogy virtues it's been.
Speaker 2: Deaths Obviously, brian wilson, my FATHER and i think about
Speaker 2: what are people.
Speaker 3: Going to SAY when. I pass are they going to say.
Speaker 2: He BROKE the NBA and aba merger for double doubles
Speaker 2: when he played in his. Third, Season, No no they're
Speaker 2: going to talk about how he made. People feel they're
Speaker 2: going to talk about, His relationships they're going to talk
Speaker 2: about how he made an impact on other. PEOPLE'S lives, i, mean,
Speaker 2: like sure they'll touch. On basketball but what my hope
Speaker 2: IS when i get to, that POINT if i just
Speaker 2: be my authentic self and be more comfortable in my
Speaker 2: own skin by exposing, these things that when that, time
Speaker 2: comes it's going to be more about eulogy. Than legacy
Speaker 2: but my hope would BE if i keep living my
Speaker 2: life with that type, of intention that the universe will
Speaker 2: unfold as.
Speaker 1: It should so what does living with that kind of
Speaker 1: intention look Like for? Kevin today after, the break we'll
Speaker 1: talk About how kevin is trying to break the stigma
Speaker 1: for the next generation. Of Athletes The happiness lab will be.
Speaker 3: Right BACK.
Speaker 1: When Nba Star kevin love finally went public about his mental,
Speaker 1: health struggles the response. Was overwhelming it was clear that
Speaker 1: people were hungry to change the stigma that so many.
Speaker 1: Athletes Face Enter The Kevin, love fund a nonprofit dedicated
Speaker 1: to helping the next generation develop the skills they need
Speaker 1: to manage mental. Health challenges and.
Speaker 2: We wanted to support both physical and, emotional wellbeing and
Speaker 2: we wanted to just keep having these conversations to eliminate
Speaker 2: the stigma and provide resources educate. As WELL and i
Speaker 2: think that education space IS where i look back and
Speaker 2: coming into, high school all of, those, expectations, athletics college
Speaker 2: you have to consider those things much. Younger NOW but
Speaker 2: I know i didn't have, The LANGUAGE but, i thought
Speaker 2: if we can learn about physical health and, sexual health
Speaker 2: why aren't we being taught about emotions and? Mental health
Speaker 2: why aren't we putting this into. The CLASSROOM so i
Speaker 2: thought it would be really meaningful because everybody's going through
Speaker 2: something that you. Can't see how can we implement this
Speaker 2: into the classroom starting at that age and create a
Speaker 2: curriculum that's modeled. Around vulnerability Sarah and elier educators have
Speaker 2: done such an incredible job in rounding out this curriculum
Speaker 2: and continuing to add to it and get it taught
Speaker 2: in many different countries and many, different languages and continuing to.
Speaker 2: Grow it, right now we're working on getting it into
Speaker 2: the third largest school district in, the country And. That's
Speaker 2: miami part of.
Speaker 1: This new curriculum involves prompts designed to help students open
Speaker 1: up about the things they're, struggling with but teachers get
Speaker 1: to answer first modeling what a response looks like and
Speaker 1: showing that adults are. VULNERABLE too I asked kevin to
Speaker 1: tell me about an experience from early in the programs,
Speaker 1: develop it one that made him realize just how powerful
Speaker 1: this work.
Speaker 3: Could be, you know the teacher. Models it they go around.
Speaker 2: The classroom and the amazing part about that day was
Speaker 2: the basketball team and some of the football team was in,
Speaker 2: that classroom and once we got, to them, you know
Speaker 2: they were kind of hiding, AND like i don't want,
Speaker 2: to share but we just kept going around and then
Speaker 2: we got, to THEM and i remember the first share
Speaker 2: he had, talked about, YOU know i come to school
Speaker 2: to get food and my dad's, not around and my
Speaker 2: mom's having to work with my SISTERS and i don't
Speaker 2: get enough time, with her and it's just.
Speaker 3: Two Jobs and i'm, just like this.
Speaker 4: Is amazing like everybody's open amazed in, that. Classroom right
Speaker 4: they can amise, each other they can help, each other
Speaker 4: and this is.
Speaker 3: An athlete like at, THAT age i WAS like i wasn't.
Speaker 2: Doing THAT but i just want to tell everybody, out
Speaker 2: there like it's a free curriculum and so this is
Speaker 2: something that you can integrate into. Any school, you know
Speaker 2: this is a you know as potential to really have
Speaker 2: a huge impact on a. Kid's life and it's just
Speaker 2: early intervention in a time where, you know in your
Speaker 2: early teens you start to really feel what being self.
Speaker 3: Conscious IS like i.
Speaker 4: Certainly did it's, early intervention but it might also be. Generational. Intervention,
Speaker 4: yes yes those kids on the football team who started
Speaker 4: talking about how the food and security makes, them feel
Speaker 4: that's going to mean that it's easier for them to do.
Speaker 5: It right they have a kid who's on the football, team.
Speaker 2: Yearsly and it just goes to show you WITH what
Speaker 2: i said OR what i wrote in, that article is
Speaker 2: that everybody's going through something that you, can't, See right
Speaker 2: so let's. Be compassionate let's allow ourselves to be a.
Speaker 2: Sounding board pay, it forward if you want to use.
Speaker 2: Your voice there is room for. Generational healing kid brought
Speaker 2: a sign to a game that said everybody's going, through
Speaker 2: SOMETHING and i told our security, or like grab him,
Speaker 2: for me grab him and his family. For me and
Speaker 2: he came BACK and i just spoke to the FAMILY
Speaker 2: and i started to realize through what they said that
Speaker 2: you're not just changing the, kid's life you're changing how
Speaker 2: he's relating with, his, friends potentially, his team, his teachers,
Speaker 2: his family. His community what is changing that one life actually?
Speaker 3: Look like what does?
Speaker 2: IT do i don't know if we can quantify it
Speaker 2: or it's something that you, can measure but there's a
Speaker 2: LOT of i think healing to be had through, all
Speaker 2: that and it's not just that. One person it has
Speaker 2: a ripple effect that is just an. Amazing thing and
Speaker 2: seeing it firsthand is.
Speaker 4: IT'S inspiring i remember when your article came out and
Speaker 4: it get sent to me by like tons and tons
Speaker 4: of my students and many of my student athletes, Were
Speaker 4: like i'm so happy he. Said it because only you
Speaker 4: know you're an all star you can say it can't
Speaker 4: be somebody who hasn't achieved the things that, you did which.
Speaker 5: Is, sad yeah but it doesn't meant.
Speaker 2: So much we've worked with a lot of student athletes
Speaker 2: and it's. Been amazing and after they come out of
Speaker 2: college and they struggle, With identity but how do you
Speaker 2: help these student athletes and their coaches have these conversations
Speaker 2: because you know these colleges or institutions that.
Speaker 3: You know now money.
Speaker 2: Is involved it makes it so much More complex at,
Speaker 2: that age a kid is even. More worried it has
Speaker 2: even more Pressure, about OKAY if i expose THIS or i,
Speaker 2: tell this like this college isn't going to, Want me
Speaker 2: they're going to take away. My, scholarship yeah it's.
Speaker 3: Not UNLIKE what i had at the at the.
Speaker 2: Highest level But also i've already, made It like i'm
Speaker 2: already in. THIS space i can't imagine the pressures but
Speaker 2: also the pain of having to feel like you need
Speaker 2: to hide that with your coaches or with, you know
Speaker 2: these people that are potentially going to give you an
Speaker 2: opportunity of a lifetime and in high school that might
Speaker 2: be the only chance that.
Speaker 4: You HAVE but i think you opening up, the conversation
Speaker 4: it MEANS that i think college high school coaches will have.
Speaker 2: The conversation so That's the, it's like, you know the teacher,
Speaker 2: models it it has to be. The coaches i'm very
Speaker 2: proud to be part OF the nba who's backed us
Speaker 2: so much in this and been driving, for us and
Speaker 2: they'll continue to evolve in. This space, but Really The miami,
Speaker 2: Heat coach Spolstra coach bo he's so open to these
Speaker 2: conversations and sometimes he'll just bring it in and be like.
Speaker 2: Blackout day nobody, come in get, some sun get some.
Speaker 2: Vitamin date it's good, for, you right spend time with,
Speaker 2: your families play the long game because we.
Speaker 3: Need that it's an.
Speaker 2: Unforgiving league so when he, models that and he's one
Speaker 2: of the greatest coaches of, all time and we Have Doctor,
Speaker 2: derek anderson who's our licensed therapist, on staff. He's amazing
Speaker 2: so that also gives me hope that that will then
Speaker 2: trickle down to college athletes as well as high. School
Speaker 2: athletes and there's always going to be exceptions to. The
Speaker 2: rule there's going to be people that aren't open. To
Speaker 2: this but, you know vulnerability. Is.
Speaker 3: Superpower strength well.
Speaker 4: Also raises a question of like what's actually going to make?
Speaker 4: Play better and we could say play better on the court,
Speaker 4: that night but also, play better, you know having a
Speaker 4: long career of longevity with your injuries where you, don't
Speaker 4: know blow yourself up and get canceled on. Social media you're, so,
Speaker 4: ANGRY right, I mean i think we really need to
Speaker 4: have a conversation of whether or.
Speaker 3: Not it could be a.
Speaker 4: Better, PRODUCT well i think even just, you know in
Speaker 4: terms of like, physical performance we figured. That out, you
Speaker 4: know people get. Rest days, you know you, take. BREAKS
Speaker 4: right i think we've come to realize that the body
Speaker 4: is not just this crazy machine that you, push, push, push.
Speaker 4: RIGHT right i think when we come to think about
Speaker 4: people's mental health their human performance side, of things we
Speaker 4: probably need to be a little bit more compassionate, there
Speaker 4: too and ultimately like the result will be. Better off
Speaker 4: thank you so much for all the great work that
Speaker 4: you're doing and where can folks learn About The kevin
Speaker 4: love fun kevinlovefund.
Speaker 2: Dot org and thank you as well for being. AN
Speaker 2: ally i always say like we're, tribal beings we should
Speaker 2: start acting, like it and we are part of a.
Speaker 2: Tribe together this is. Community driven we all want to
Speaker 2: be on the winning side. Of HISTORY but i think it's.
Speaker 1: ALL hope i hope we're finally at the beginning of
Speaker 1: a mental, health revolution but there's still lots of work
Speaker 1: that each of us can do to fight. The, stigma
Speaker 1: First as kevin's viral article, put it remember everyone is
Speaker 1: going through something and a little compassion can go a very.
Speaker 1: Long way so if you're a teacher or, a coach
Speaker 1: or a parent or, a leader it's vital that you
Speaker 1: model vulnerability to the people who look up, to you
Speaker 1: and give yourself a little. Compassion too by, doing so
Speaker 1: we can help the next generation break the cycle and
Speaker 1: feel safe having tough. Conversations Openly The happiness lab will
Speaker 1: soon be back with A spectacular. Halloween episode we'll be
Speaker 1: exploring the connection between fear. And joy we'll speak to
Speaker 1: a behavioral scientist who's studying why certain people just love
Speaker 1: to Be scared. All that next time On The, Happiness
Speaker 1: Lab Doctor laurie santos