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Speaker 1: Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may

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Speaker 1: not be suitable for all listeners. This episode also discusses

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Speaker 1: sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: His violence potential to me is unlimited.

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Speaker 3: Anybody that could slip their own children's throats and then

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Speaker 3: burn them up.

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Speaker 2: He's a definite danger to society.

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Speaker 1: That's former FBI agent Bob Caldwell speaking to a reporter

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago. What he said then remains true today.

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Speaker 1: If alive, Robert Fischer is in extreme danger not only

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Speaker 1: to society, but most critically, if he has a new

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Speaker 1: family to them. It's therefore imperative that we find Fisher,

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Speaker 1: not only to bring him to justice, but to avoid

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Speaker 1: further bloodshed. If that seems impossible, it's not. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy one, John List killed his family and vanished. By

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, at the fifteen year mark, many people

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Speaker 1: thought he was dead. Newspapers ran headlines like the perfect crime,

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Speaker 1: and it was the perfect crime until it wasn't. Investigators

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Speaker 1: never gave up. In nineteen eighty six, a prosecutor told

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Speaker 1: the Associated Press quote, when you have no evidence to

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Speaker 1: the contrary, you must assume he's still alive. Basically, what

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Speaker 1: we have here, he said, is a Casper milk toast

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Speaker 1: who stepped out of his role, murdered his family, and

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Speaker 1: then stepped back into the role and disappeared. A month later,

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Speaker 1: Inspired by the case, Hollywood released The Stepfather, a movie

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Speaker 1: about a man who kills his family, assumes a new identity,

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Speaker 1: and marries a widow with a fifteen year old daughter.

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Speaker 4: Oh, that guy had felt who had killed his whole

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Speaker 4: family cut him up with knives.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they disappointed him.

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Speaker 1: When asked about John List, the screenwriter said, my first

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Speaker 1: guess is the real life man killed himself in such

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Speaker 1: a way that he was never found. My second guess

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Speaker 1: is that the movie would be fairly close to what

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Speaker 1: might have transpired. Meaningless escaped, changed his name and started

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Speaker 1: a new life.

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Speaker 5: Who am I here?

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Speaker 2: You're a very bad girl.

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Speaker 6: The Stepfather?

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Speaker 1: I believe he meaning List is alive. Retired Westfield police

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Speaker 1: chief James Rand said, fifteen years is a long time.

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Speaker 1: The prosecutor said, but it's not an impossible task. We'll

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Speaker 1: continue to track him and someday who knows it sounds

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Speaker 1: so desperate, so empty, five ten, twenty three years later

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Speaker 1: to say, no, really, guys, we'll get him. Someday, But

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Speaker 1: someday came America's Most Wanted featured the case. An ex

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Speaker 1: neighbor phoned in a lead, and on June first, nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty nine, police arrested List. He was living under a

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Speaker 1: new name with a new wife in a new city.

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Speaker 1: So yes, this is possible, but not without your help.

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Speaker 1: You know what solved the List case, publicity? You know

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Speaker 1: who solved it? An audience member with Fisher. That could

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Speaker 1: be you from iHeartRadio and neon thirty three. I'm John

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Speaker 1: Walzac and this is missing in Arizona, the story of

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Speaker 1: a man who disappeared after allegedly killing his wife and kids,

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Speaker 1: blowing up their suburban home, and escaping into the wilderness.

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Speaker 1: Twenty three years later, I'm hunting Robert Fisher, and I

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Speaker 1: need your help. Let's start with a profile of Fisher,

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Speaker 1: not a biography, only stuff that can help catch him.

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Speaker 1: Fisher was born on April thirteenth, nineteen sixty one. As

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Speaker 1: of this recording, he's sixty three. He's six feet tall.

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Speaker 1: When he disappeared, he weighed one hundred and ninety pounds.

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Speaker 1: Obviously that could have changed, but he cared a lot

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Speaker 1: about his weight.

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Speaker 5: So I doubt.

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Speaker 1: He's emaciated or obese, probably still in the one hundred

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Speaker 1: and eighty to two hundred and ten pound range. He

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Speaker 1: had light brown, almost blonde hair by now it's likely

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Speaker 1: gray or mixed, though he might die it to stave

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Speaker 1: off aging. He has blue eyes and a gold tooth

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Speaker 1: his upper left first by cuspid, the tooth right behind

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Speaker 1: your canines, your fangs. He might still have it, he

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Speaker 1: might not. Dentists, hygienists, oral surgeons, pay attention. Does this

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Speaker 1: match any of your patients. Fisher also has a scar

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Speaker 1: on his lower back midline of the lumbo sacral level

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Speaker 1: from surgery doctors, surgeons, nurses, Pay attention. Does this match

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Speaker 1: any of your patients. Fisher has small feet in the

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Speaker 1: eight to ten range, likely a nine point five. He

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Speaker 1: keeps a clean cut, neat appearance. He probably has short

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Speaker 1: hair and little to no facial hair, maybe a short beard.

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Speaker 1: He's casual jeans, T shirts, flannels, boots, sneakers, baseball caps, bandanas, sunglasses.

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Speaker 1: He suffers from back and knee pain. He might be

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Speaker 1: dependent on, if not addicted to, opioids. John and Mary

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Speaker 1: Beth Rodin Fisher family friends tell me their son remembers

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Speaker 1: Robert having a quote weird toe. That might mean something,

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Speaker 1: it might not. It could have been a one time

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Speaker 1: fungal infection, or he could have a deformed toe. Their

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Speaker 1: son was young is murky. Fisher rarely drank, but when

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Speaker 1: he did, he liked bourbon. He constantly chewed tobacco, winter

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Speaker 1: green Copenhagen. He might still chew or smoke or vape.

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Speaker 1: He liked to hunt, fish, camp. He liked pickup trucks,

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Speaker 1: country music, guns. He wasn't super political in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: but he could be today. And Ammo box in the

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Speaker 1: rubble of his house had a sticker on it for

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Speaker 1: the NRA. Another had a sticker that read control Criminals,

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Speaker 1: not Guns. Fisher wasn't a big sports guy, just the

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Speaker 1: casual Diamondbacks and Raiders fan. He liked dogs, not cats.

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Speaker 1: He enjoyed nature centric TV shows vicarious adventure, but he

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Speaker 1: stayed close to home. He didn't have a passport. He

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Speaker 1: only traveled internationally while in the Navy. Many people speculate

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Speaker 1: that he's now hiding overseas. I doubt it. He's a

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Speaker 1: creature of habit. He sticks to what he knows to

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Speaker 1: be safe. Though I tried to find a list of

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Speaker 1: places he visited while in the Navy. To see which

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Speaker 1: international spots he might know just a bit, I filed

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Speaker 1: a record's request and found out that he served from

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine to eighty two aboard the USS below Wood,

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Speaker 1: an amphibious assault ship based in San Diego. During that period,

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Speaker 1: he visited Victoria, British Columbia, and Mast Lawn, Mexico. The

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Speaker 1: Navy later deployed him further abroad for six months. On

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Speaker 1: April twenty first, nineteen eighty one, the bellow Wood rescued

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Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty three Vietnamese refugees, including fifty three children,

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Speaker 1: from leaking boats in the South China Sea. So I

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Speaker 1: knew he was in or near Asia, But no matter

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Speaker 1: what I did, I couldn't find a list of ports

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Speaker 1: of call, not in his navy file, not online. Finally,

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Speaker 1: our producer, Hannah Rose Snyder, tracked down a copy on

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Speaker 1: microfilm at a government facility near DC. To access it,

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Speaker 1: we hired a researcher who obtained this list.

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Speaker 7: San Diego, Pearl Harbor, Okinawa, Japan, po Hung, South Korea,

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Speaker 7: Hong Kong, Subit Bay, the Philippines, Singapore, Colombo, Sri Lanka, Diego, Garcia, Freemantle, Australia,

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Speaker 7: Pateya Beach, Thailand.

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Speaker 1: And the waters off Lanslown, Australia. Though it's unclear whether

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Speaker 1: or not he went ashore. In theory, Fisher could be

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Speaker 1: in any of these places, but I doubt it. He's

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Speaker 1: likely still in the US, somewhere out west, maybe a

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Speaker 1: remote corner of Arizona like Lake Havasu or southern California,

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Speaker 1: which he knew well, or Las Vegas where he could

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Speaker 1: easily blend in, or even Phoenix. In two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: he had a chance to escape to Mexico. Americans could

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Speaker 1: cross the border without a passport until two thousand and nine,

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Speaker 1: the day the house exploded, He had enough time to

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Speaker 1: flee to the border only three hours away, but he didn't.

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Speaker 1: In fact, he didn't even flee the state, at least

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Speaker 1: not immediately. He stayed in Arizona. Fisher was a creature

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Speaker 1: of habit one key reason I think he's still in

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Speaker 1: the US. Also, he was racist, specifically against Mexicans. Several

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Speaker 1: people tell me that he made anti Mexican remarks. Not

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Speaker 1: to mention, he didn't speak Spanish or any other foreign language.

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Speaker 1: Just English. Finally, one of his friends, a former coworker

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Speaker 1: who doesn't want to be named, revealed something new, something

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Speaker 1: intriguing about Fisher's back pain.

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Speaker 8: When I would notice it was associated with like weather,

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Speaker 8: so with like arthritis type symptoms. And in Arizona we've

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Speaker 8: got the monsoons. So in the morning he would be

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Speaker 8: perfectly fine. And you meet up with him like around lunchtime,

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Speaker 8: and you know, making a comment like, oh, but a

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Speaker 8: storm must becoming because my back's starting to hurt, that

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Speaker 8: type of thing. And then I know in the winter time,

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Speaker 8: when it was cooler or colder, his back seemed to

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Speaker 8: hurn him more.

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Speaker 1: So if he did flee somewhere and you don't see

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Speaker 1: it being somewhere stormy or cold. No, this is fascinating.

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Speaker 1: Cold weather and drops in barometric pressure caused Robert pain.

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Speaker 1: But he was fine in the heat. He liked the heat.

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Speaker 8: I think it would be much harder for him to

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Speaker 8: live a comfortable life in a cold climate.

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Speaker 1: Let's keep building a prof What about Fisher's personality. It's

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Speaker 1: unclear if he was ever diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder,

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Speaker 1: likely not, but he certainly had OCD style tendencies He

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Speaker 1: kept everything extremely clean. He disliked disorder. He liked routine.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to eat dinner every night at five pm sharp.

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Speaker 1: He generally followed the rules and appeared to be pro

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Speaker 1: law enforcement. On a hunting trip with a friend, he

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Speaker 1: was pulled over twice by Saint Trooper's. Both times he

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Speaker 1: remained courteous and respectful. Robert was a minimalist. He didn't

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Speaker 1: like clutter. A friend and former neighbor, Paul, tells me

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Speaker 1: that inside the Fisher house, one room didn't even have furniture.

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Speaker 1: According to Mary's friend Kim Davidson, Robert had strict rules

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Speaker 1: about home decor.

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Speaker 9: Even when you went back into the bedrooms, there wasn't

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Speaker 9: a lot of personality there. It was just spare bones.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that is well?

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Speaker 9: Come to find out, it was because Robert wouldn't allow

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Speaker 9: a well to be painted a color. He wouldn't allow

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Speaker 9: the kids to hang up things in their bedroom.

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Speaker 1: He didn't even let Mary put up quilts that her

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Speaker 1: mom made.

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Speaker 9: The quails were quite beautiful, and they just sat up there,

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Speaker 9: pulled it on the.

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Speaker 1: Shelf because Robert wouldn't let her hang them up. Correct

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Speaker 1: Another one of Mary's friends who doesn't want to be named,

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Speaker 1: tells me the same thing. She often stayed with the

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Speaker 1: Fishers while visiting from out of town. Quote, they didn't

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Speaker 1: put bedspreads on their beds. It was just like a sheet.

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Speaker 1: It always kind of looked like they were just moving in.

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Speaker 1: And I'd be like, why don't you guys like get

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Speaker 1: a quilt? The mom knit, she was super crafty, Like,

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Speaker 1: why don't we just do something a little decorative, And

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Speaker 1: Mary's like, oh, Robert doesn't like that because he thinks

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Speaker 1: it gets dusty or dirty or something. Robert seemed to

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Speaker 1: have a thing about dirt and germs. He was also

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Speaker 1: very particular about his food. According to a police report,

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Speaker 1: he never ate at fast food restaurants, and quote in

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Speaker 1: regular restaurants was so extreme with questions about food and

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Speaker 1: its preparation he would embarrass friends and family. One time,

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Speaker 1: Robert and a friend had launched at a truck stop

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Speaker 1: near Tucson. Robert gave the waitress quote such a hard time,

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Speaker 1: wanting to know what items were being put into the food,

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Speaker 1: how the food was prepared. He was also a cheap skate.

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Speaker 1: He refused to pay for air conditioning in blazing Arizona.

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Speaker 1: John and Mary Beth Rodin tell me that at work,

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Speaker 1: Robert would save dirty hemostats tools that clamp onto blood

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Speaker 1: vessels to prevent bleeding.

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Speaker 10: They'd throw them all out when they were done with them,

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Speaker 10: and he'd collect them, and he'd have like twenty or

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Speaker 10: thirty of them, and he'd take them to Don's sports

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Speaker 10: shop and sell them or trade them for merchandise because

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Speaker 10: the fly fishermen like them because they're really good at

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Speaker 10: ripping flies. It's like a bent or taking hooks out

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Speaker 10: of fish.

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Speaker 1: And he would rescue them from work.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, he'd take them out of the garbage.

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Speaker 10: Probably after proceedures this, he supposedly throw them all away.

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Speaker 1: I asked the Rodents if media portrayals of Robert have

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Speaker 1: been accurate, not entirely. They say he was not some maladjusted,

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Speaker 1: asocial loaner. He could be quiet, soft spoken, but also congenial, funny, sarcastic.

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Speaker 9: He didn't like to be by himself. He can go

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Speaker 9: for a day or two, but I don't think he

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Speaker 9: could ever.

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Speaker 10: Very gregarious, love talking to people.

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Speaker 7: I don't think he could live by himself for an

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Speaker 7: extended period of time.

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Speaker 1: So this idea that he would run off and be

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Speaker 1: a hermit and just want to be alone.

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Speaker 12: I don't think so he had to have an audience.

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Speaker 1: This lines up with what Mary's mom told police. Robert

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Speaker 1: was very outgoing. She said he had many friends or

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Speaker 1: at least friendly acquaintances in both his personal life and

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Speaker 1: at work. He got along well with patients too. One

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Speaker 1: colleague said, quote older ladies, he was very, very delicate

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Speaker 1: with them. Another said he was quote very sociable. One

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Speaker 1: time he treated a female Phoenix police officer who was

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Speaker 1: preparing to donate a kidney to a family member. Robert

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Speaker 1: quote really got into that, and not in a sexual way,

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Speaker 1: just chatting. He did it with men too, quote Whenever

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Speaker 1: it was somebody that liked to hunt, had guns, or

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Speaker 1: had anything to do with the law, he would be

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Speaker 1: there holding that groin for about twenty minutes, and normally

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Speaker 1: we do it in about ten minutes. It was a

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Speaker 1: standing joke. A cop asked what he meant by quote

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Speaker 1: holding groins, coworker, hold pressure so they don't bleed.

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Speaker 2: Cop.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So in other words, he favored people that were

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Speaker 1: out doorsy, oh yeah, and he liked law enforcement, oh yeah. However,

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Speaker 1: another colleague said Robert could be aloof quote. He'd come

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Speaker 1: up to you in the cafeteria. We'd be having a conversation.

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Speaker 1: He'd sit down, he'd bring something up, we'd start talking

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Speaker 1: about it, and then he'd just get up and leave.

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Speaker 1: He could be creepy too. On a hunting trip, he

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Speaker 1: toyed with a friend. He went down one trail, the

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Speaker 1: friend another. Both had walkie talkies. Robert told the friend

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Speaker 1: where to meet, exact spot, exact time. The friend considered

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Speaker 1: it a game. Halfway up the trail, Robert's voice crackle through.

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Speaker 1: I can see you, he said. The friend looked up

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Speaker 1: through binoculars. He spotted Robert on a mountaintop. I've been

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Speaker 1: watching you the entire time.

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Speaker 5: He said.

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Speaker 1: While hunting, Robert also used varmint calls. He vocally mimicked

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Speaker 1: small injured animals trying to lure predators so he could

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Speaker 1: shoot them, and he played tapes with the sounds of

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Speaker 1: dying rabbits. Not abnormal many hunters do this, but given

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Speaker 1: the later context, creepy. When he spoke to his hunting

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Speaker 1: buddy Jim Rodin, he.

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Speaker 13: Liked to get quiet, like like like a tail off,

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Speaker 13: and be quiet, you know, even though I sir, because I'm.

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Speaker 1: Kind of crazy, and when he wasn't mimicking dying animals,

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Speaker 1: he tried.

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Speaker 13: To mimic a little bit of a redneck drawl, like

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Speaker 13: a good old boy outdoorsman. Tried to do that, tried

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Speaker 13: to sound a little bit Western cowboy.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it was real?

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Speaker 13: That was probably something that was rehearsed. That became a

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Speaker 13: part of him because he loved that good old boy

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Speaker 13: Americana military, redneck outdoorsman, Copenhagen, tobacco fishing. He liked that

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Speaker 13: kind of Cabella's past pro shop, though it wasn't there

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Speaker 13: at the time. Yeah, he loved all that, you know,

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Speaker 13: had his own little fishing boat and pickup truck.

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Speaker 1: Robert often discussed religion with Jim, a pastor. People have

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Speaker 1: different opinions about how spiritual Robert really was and how

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Speaker 1: much was just for show. I don't know, but he

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Speaker 1: read the Bible at work, attended church, and certainly felt guilt.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety nine when he cheated on Mary, he

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Speaker 1: could have remained silent. Instead, he confessed he appeared to

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Speaker 1: feel genuine remorse, which would indicate a savable soul, not

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Speaker 1: a psychopath with an evil, irredeemable core. If Robert chooses

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Speaker 1: not to surrender, and yes, I know he likely won't.

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Speaker 1: How can we find him? Let me split this into

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Speaker 1: three parts number one and passwords number two, his face

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Speaker 1: number three, his voice jeans. Let's say Robert has a

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Speaker 1: new family. Let's say he has kids after twenty three years.

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Speaker 1: He could even have adult children. They don't know who

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Speaker 1: he is. They use a commercial DNA service like ancestry

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Speaker 1: or twenty three and me this is a surefire way

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Speaker 1: to find Robert. It would take luck and cooperation from

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Speaker 1: his family. His first family, mom, sisters, nieces, nephews, someone.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if they've used any of these services.

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Speaker 1: If not, I encourage them to asap. If they do,

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Speaker 1: and Robert has a new family and his new kids

300
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,160
Speaker 1: upload their DNA, boom, we found him. Law enforcement is

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00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,640
Speaker 1: limited here by privacy laws and corporate regulations. Investigators can

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00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 1: compare samples of Robert's parents' DNA to open source databases

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00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: like jedmatch. They should do this asap, but the best

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00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 1: option is for Robert's family to help voluntarily passwords. Our

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00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,919
Speaker 1: researcher Paul Gemperlin had a brilliant idea. If investigators have

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Speaker 1: a list of passwords Robert used before the murders, email, banking,

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00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 1: et cetera. They can compare them to databases of passwords

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00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,040
Speaker 1: that leaked during the past twenty three years. Let's say

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Speaker 1: Robert used a highly unique password, for example, Robert nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty one loves Scottsdale. Law enforcement can scan databases to

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00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: see if it shows up anywhere after April two thousand

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00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,200
Speaker 1: and one. If so, it might indicate that Robert did

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00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,000
Speaker 1: escape and start a new life. Best case, it might

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00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,080
Speaker 1: even point us to where he went. It's a Hail Mary, sure,

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Speaker 1: But the thing about hail Mary's sometimes.

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Speaker 5: They work his face.

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Speaker 1: If you've seen any photo of Robert, it's likely the

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Speaker 1: photo from a nineteen ninety nine family portrait, the one

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00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,760
Speaker 1: everyone uses from Wikipedia to the FBI. In it, Mary

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Speaker 1: Brittany and Bobby smile. Robert purses his lips. I get

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Speaker 1: why it became the key photo in this case. It's

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Speaker 1: high resolution, taken less than two years before the murders.

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Speaker 1: I've only been able to track down twenty eight photos

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Speaker 1: of Robert as an adult, including this one. The problem

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Speaker 1: is it seems off, like it doesn't represent him. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you have photos like this yes, it's you,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't really look like you. Maybe it's the angle,

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Speaker 1: or the lighting, or the lens or the editing. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I never met Robert, but people who did

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Speaker 1: agree with me, including Miss Honey, Britney's teacher, the second

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Speaker 1: to last person to see and speak with Robert the

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Speaker 1: night of the murders.

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Speaker 12: That picture is not how I remember him, and it

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00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 12: hardly recognize him from that picture. So to me, I

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00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 12: feel like we've been going around now for twenty years

336
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,479
Speaker 12: with an incorrect simulation and incorrect image and persona of

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Speaker 12: this person that we're looking for, which has worked to

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Speaker 12: his advantage.

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Speaker 1: Miss Honey is talking about two images, first, the nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety nine photo, second the ace progressed image based on

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00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,640
Speaker 1: that photo produced by the FBI in twenty sixteen. The

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00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 1: FBI images, how can I say this nicely, not the best.

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00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: It looks like they took the nineteen ninety nine photo,

344
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,920
Speaker 1: threw on some mister potato head facial hair and said

345
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Speaker 1: this could be what he looks like today. When I

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Speaker 1: show it to one person who knew Robert, they literally laugh.

347
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 1: The other two photos the FBI uses on its wanted

348
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: poster aren't great either. One shows Robert with crazy eyes,

349
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 1: another makes him look like he has three chins. I'm

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00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 1: not trying to be needlessly antagonistic here. It's not the

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00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,160
Speaker 1: FBI's fault that Robert blew up his house, incinerating most

352
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,720
Speaker 1: photos of him. But if the images were using to

353
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:37,400
Speaker 1: find him are at best off and at worst laughable,

354
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 1: we have a problem. I knew this early on, so

355
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Speaker 1: one of my main goals was to find new photos

356
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Speaker 1: of him. I ask every person I interview if they

357
00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 1: have any I start with twenty six photos. I end

358
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,639
Speaker 1: with twenty eight. That's how tough it is. I find

359
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,199
Speaker 1: two new photos, only two, both given to me by

360
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Speaker 1: John and Mary Beth Rodin. One is dated August sixteenth,

361
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 1: nineteen nine ninety seven, taken on a camping trip at

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00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,359
Speaker 1: Holly Lake. Robert stands in front of a white pickup truck,

363
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: wearing a gray T shirt tucked into jeans, a baseball cap, sunglasses,

364
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 1: and a watch. Bobby Junior, a month shy of seven,

365
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,720
Speaker 1: sits on the hood, his legs dangling off the side,

366
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: in a white shirt, red shorts, a blue hat, and

367
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:23,040
Speaker 1: little white sneakers. Both face the camera. It's sunny. The

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00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: other is dated December ninth, nineteen ninety nine, meaning it's

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00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,280
Speaker 1: now the most recent photo of Robert known to exist,

370
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: a picture, to my knowledge, never obtained by law enforcement.

371
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: In it, he stands on a dirt road next to

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Speaker 1: a different truck, wearing a long sleeved blue shirt tucked

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00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 1: into jeans, boots, a white baseball cap, and sunglasses. It

374
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: was taken in the Apache Sickgreaves National Forest during a

375
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,760
Speaker 1: hunt four Christmas trees. There's a tree in the pickup bed.

376
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,239
Speaker 1: Robert turns its head looks right at the camera. In

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00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,640
Speaker 1: addition to these photos, the Rodents give me a few

378
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 1: new videos of Robert. One in particular, taken in nineteen

379
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: ninety four, is import It provides a clear shot of

380
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 1: Robert's smiling. You see his gold tooth. I decide to

381
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 1: take all images, every single photo and high quality videos

382
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: still and work with a forensic artist to create a

383
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,840
Speaker 1: new age progressed image to see what Robert might look

384
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 1: like today. In fact, I work with three world renowned

385
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: artists at the same time. None are aware the others

386
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 1: are also working on this case. I want to conduct

387
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 1: an experiment to see, when given the same source material,

388
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 1: what each of them can produce. It's the first time

389
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: this has ever been done. Three talented artists on the

390
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: same case at the same time, starting with.

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Speaker 14: Lois Gibson and I got into this because someone murdered me.

392
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,360
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't die.

393
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,879
Speaker 9: That he almost murdered me for fun really got on

394
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 9: my nerves.

395
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 2: I wanted justice.

396
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,120
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy one, a man forced his way into

397
00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: Lois's apartment, choked her for twenty five minutes, and sexually

398
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: assaulted her. She nearly died by chance. Six weeks later,

399
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: while driving down a nearby street, Lois recognized her assailant

400
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,400
Speaker 1: as police arrested him for another crime. She later moved

401
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: to Texas, got a fine Arts degree, painted three thousand

402
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 1: portraits on the San Antonio Riverwalk, and became a forensic

403
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:12,320
Speaker 1: artist in Houston.

404
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 5: Next we have Hill Zmam.

405
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:17,919
Speaker 1: Not only is gill an artist, he's also an author.

406
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 1: Last year, he published a book called The Mindful Interview

407
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: Method Retrieving cognitive Evidence. Gill view's memory as easily tainted

408
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 1: evidence that should be carefully uncovered, like a fingerprint, a fiber,

409
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 1: a drop of blood, Gather it mindfully without altering it.

410
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: He strongly opposes, for example, the use of reference images.

411
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 15: To simulate the memory. Hey, was his nose like this,

412
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 15: eyes like this, and so forth. I believe that once

413
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 15: you do that, you're contaminating someone's memory and they cannot

414
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 15: distinguish between what they actually remembered to what you're actually

415
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 15: showing them.

416
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: He's talking about sketches based on witness memory, not age

417
00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: progressed images based on photos. But still it's a smart observation. Finally,

418
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: we have Michael W. Streed, who we worked with previously

419
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 1: on season two Missing on nine to eleven with eights

420
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: progressed images.

421
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 4: The goal is not to have people praise your art

422
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 4: and tell you what a great artist you are. The

423
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 4: actual object is to catch this murderous suspect.

424
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: This is a critical point. These artists are not trying

425
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: to craft award winning photorealistic images of how missing fugitives

426
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,679
Speaker 1: definitely look today, because they don't know how they look today.

427
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: An image should be just familiar enough to make someone

428
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: do a double take and say, hey, that kind of

429
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,199
Speaker 1: looks like my neighbor Joe or my friend Susie. You

430
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: don't want to gamble everything on a very particular vision

431
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: that ends up being wrong. Michael Gill and Lois are

432
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: all talented. They have different methods blending science and art.

433
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: Until we find Robert Fisher, we won't know who did

434
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: the best job. That said, I had to choose a

435
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,119
Speaker 1: winner the main image for our new wanted poster. I

436
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: chose Michael. I think the most important thing to capture

437
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 1: here Fisher's eyes, your smile. Can you speak to me

438
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 1: about how you did that in the end, because I

439
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 1: think you really nailed it, you know.

440
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 4: The post picture. I looked at the famous picture you

441
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 4: talked about that was used before in a previous age progression.

442
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 4: There was some intensity to them, and in some of

443
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 4: the pictures you provided me they were all they were

444
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 4: like buggy, just crazy, just bulging in your face kind

445
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 4: of eyes, angry, intense eyes. But that's not how the

446
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 4: person walks around. So I looked at some of the

447
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 4: other normal shots, the more candid shots, more natural, relaxed look,

448
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 4: and he still had this intensity. You know, the eyes

449
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 4: were not so buggy, they weren't so bulging, but they

450
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 4: had this intense I don't want to say crazy look,

451
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 4: but just this intensity. It would make you look at

452
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 4: the guy and say, there's something about this guy that's

453
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 4: not quite right. So we were able to go somewhere

454
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 4: between normal, relax normalize, friendly eyes and not so buggy

455
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 4: crazy to this intensity that I believe would stay with

456
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 4: him over time.

457
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:56,959
Speaker 1: What about the smile.

458
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 4: The smile was just kind of one of those smiles

459
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 4: where one corner of the mouth was maybe a little

460
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 4: bit more lifted than the other, and maybe both sides

461
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 4: are a little bit even. But they kind of curled

462
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 4: up at the end and had this It was more

463
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:11,960
Speaker 4: than just a cat who ate the canary look the

464
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 4: look of a guy that Sag got this. It's more

465
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 4: of a look combined with the eyes that gave him

466
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 4: almost a quiet, diabolical look that I think people would

467
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 4: notice in their conversations with him, or if they saw

468
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 4: him on the streets somewhere with that same smirky, diabolical

469
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 4: smile and those intense eyes watching them.

470
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 1: Michael and I went through several rounds of edits of

471
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: the age progressed image. He gave me a rough draft,

472
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 1: I gave him feedback. We ended up, I think, with

473
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: something great to craft it. He reviewed every single photo

474
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: of Fisher. He chose two as primary references, the famous

475
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine portrait and the new nineteen ninety seven

476
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: photo given to me by the Rodents. That photo is

477
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: especially valuable. The sun lights up Robert's face from the side.

478
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: His lips are pursed, his mouth slightly ajar. You see

479
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: the sinews of his neck, the lines of his cheeks.

480
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: His head looks more compact with a pointier chin than

481
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: the ninety nine portrait, which makes it look like a

482
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: beefy square. I think your image is absolutely stellar. It

483
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,159
Speaker 1: is the line between something that is too vague and

484
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 1: artsy and something that is too photo realistic and might

485
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: not jog somebody out there to recognize Fisher under an

486
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: assumed identity as Fisher. It is, in my opinion, the

487
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: perfect line. While working with Lois Gill and Michael, I

488
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: stumble upon another artist, A fourth artist. His name is

489
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: Jill is a thirty nine year old creative developer in Belgium.

490
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: He founded a project called the AI Witness Report, which

491
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: uses artificial intelligence to convert police sketches into photorealistic images.

492
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: He was inspired in part by his dad, Ludo, a

493
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: forensic dentist and a talented artist. What first caught my

494
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: eye was Jeal's conversion of the famous dB Cooper sketch

495
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: His work is impressive. You can check it out on Instagram, AI,

496
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: dot Witness, dot Report. With Geel's help, I conduct another experiment.

497
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: I sent him all three AH progressed images, the new

498
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: ones of Robert Fisher. He runs them through AI.

499
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,880
Speaker 3: My main tool that I use is stable effusion. It's

500
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 3: like an image generation model. And what interests me about

501
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 3: stable fusion is that it's an open source system, so

502
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 3: you're not bound to the limitations of like a system

503
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 3: by OpenAI or microstoft.

504
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: In go age, progressed images out come photorealistic versions of them. Okay,

505
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: it's not that simple. In fact, it takes Giel at

506
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: least seven to eight hours to do each one. In

507
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: the end, for the Fisher case, even Giel agrees that

508
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: it's better to use the old school images, not their

509
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: photorealistic counterparts.

510
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 3: The sketch is never going to be super accurate, but

511
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: the advantage of the sketch is that it guests a

512
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: wider net because it's a bit fake, and there are

513
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 3: more people that look like a sketch then there will

514
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 3: be people that look like if very detailed for the

515
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 3: realistic image, you're like, oh no, that's not Tom, that's

516
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 3: a different person. It's a real person, but it's not

517
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 3: my neighbor Tom. You know, all the while your neighbor

518
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: Tom is the killer and then he gets away with it.

519
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: To view all of the aids, progressed images and yields

520
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: AI conversions, go to neon thirty three dot com and

521
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: sign up for our email list. If you like this show,

522
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 1: please download our first two seasons, Missing in Alaska and

523
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: Missing on nine to eleven. For updates, visit meon thirty

524
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: three dot com or follow me on Twitter at John

525
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: waalzac j O n w A l Czak. Thanks for listening.

526
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 5: His voice.

527
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: As far as I know, a fugitive has never been

528
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: located based on the sound of their voice, especially not

529
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: one as high profile as Robert Fisher. As I said previously,

530
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: when he escaped, when he burned down his house, he

531
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: made a big mistake. He left his fire safe locked

532
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: and it worked the safe I mean inside. Police found

533
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: four VHS tapes containing about six and a half hours

534
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: of home videos in grainy footage from the late eighties

535
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: and early nineties. You see and hear Robert Fisher, which

536
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: allows me to conduct one final experiment. Early on. I

537
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: have an idea, what if we use AI to recreate

538
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: Fisher's voice. Seems simple right by now we've all seen

539
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: and heard the magic of generative AI. The voice of

540
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: a dead Frank Sinatra singing Get Low by Lil John,

541
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: the voice of a dead Johnny Cash singing Barbie Girl

542
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: by Aqua. Here's the problem. Those work because we have

543
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: a ton of high quality sample audio of both Sinatra

544
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: and Cash, with Fisher not so much. AI is not

545
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: not yet at the point where you can just throw

546
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: in a few scraps of lo fi eighties audio and

547
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: pop out a high res cloned model of someone's voice.

548
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: You need good source audio, preferably a lot of it.

549
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 1: So my first task is to figure out how much

550
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: audio we have of Robert. The answer unfortunately, not a lot.

551
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: You can only hear him in a tiny percentage of

552
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: the home videos. So again I ask everyone for help.

553
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: Do you have any other video and or audio of him? Again,

554
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: I strike out, except with John and Mary Beth Rodin,

555
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: who find and share five additional previously unpublished videos of Robert,

556
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: taken in nineteen ninety three and ninety four. These clips

557
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: are brief but extremely helpful, in part because the Rodents

558
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: had a high quality video camera. I spend a week

559
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: painstakingly combing through every second of available footage from the

560
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: Firesafe and the Rodents. I find two hundred and forty

561
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: one clips of Robert's voice, ranging from one second to

562
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: sixty two seconds long. I log every in a Google sheet.

563
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 1: I categorize each clip best, great, good, okay. The okay

564
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: audio is too low quality to help us, so in

565
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: the end we're left with two point seven to two

566
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: minutes of best audio, two point one to two minutes

567
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: of great audio, and six point six to eight minutes

568
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: of good audio. Eleven point five to two minutes total. Again,

569
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: not a lot. I'm now going to play the seven

570
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: best clips to give you an idea of what we're

571
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: working with. The first three are from videos the Rodents

572
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: gave me. They've never aired before publicly, nor were they

573
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: ever obtained by law enforcement. The next four we're rescued

574
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: from the fire safe from the rubble. Listen carefully to

575
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: Robert's voice. When the audio jumps, it's because we cut

576
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: out other people's voices for privacy's sake.

577
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 5: Clip one, but boy.

578
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 16: Smile, you're on candid camera, boy, so say cheese.

579
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 2: Here you go.

580
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: Clip two, really good.

581
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: Good. Come here boy, Okay, stay, rugger, good.

582
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 4: Dogs, good dog.

583
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: Clip three.

584
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: It's little beep for there now, Bob, go touch a lot,

585
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: Go touch a lot. Okay, rug, Hey, you guys, get

586
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: around the dog.

587
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 17: Stay rugs stay.

588
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 2: Clip four four pound capish at Swallow Lake.

589
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 17: And he tries to say a cop more than that,

590
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 17: but no, it was only seventeen four pounders. I must

591
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 17: say it did a good good job last night.

592
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: Kicking him out. Wait a second, here comes someone. Oh

593
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 2: it's Danielle. Danielle. What's you doing back here? Girl? Huh?

594
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 2: Talk to me?

595
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 17: What's your tongue sticking out for? Okay, let's see what's

596
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 17: going on over here. I think kids are still putting

597
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 17: none there she's rugger.

598
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 2: Come here, come here boy. Okay, Hope, hope, Hope. Sit

599
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 2: there you go, bigger, lay down.

600
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 9: Sit.

601
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 17: It's too hot on the ground here. We must remember

602
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 17: we live in Arizona. He's going in this corner. Chad,

603
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 17: get that wagon going, boy, will you hit him out?

604
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: Hang on tight?

605
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: Brett Clip five.

606
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: Chad wan take pictures of his big muscles. Here he is,

607
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 2: and here's Brittan. Let's hear your big muscles. Bretton. Okay,

608
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 2: and Danielle. Where's your big muscles? Okay, everybody in their

609
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: big muscles?

610
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: Clip six.

611
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 14: Hey, Brittany, are you glad Chad and Danielle came down

612
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 14: to see you. Are you sad that they have to

613
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 14: go home today? Do you wish they could stay just

614
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 14: a little longer and play with you? Yeah? Would you

615
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 14: share your toys with them? He would if they could

616
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 14: stay longer, you'd share your toys with them.

617
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: I believe you. I believe you.

618
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: Clip seven.

619
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 17: Okay, Brittany, take a couple of steps this way, so

620
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 17: when I said go, you can come already, come this

621
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 17: way a little bit.

622
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,720
Speaker 2: Walk this way, britt a little further. Keep comment, keep comment.

623
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: Okay right there, right there.

624
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 16: Okay, Brittany, you got you gonna have to run fast

625
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 16: to beat these two clouds. Okay, on your mark when

626
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 16: I say go, go, britt on your mark, Get set

627
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 16: go go bred.

628
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 17: Yeah.

629
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: That's it. The seven best clips, with everything cataloged. I

630
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: now turn to tech. I research AI voice cloning products.

631
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: We need something high quality, something professional, not a phone app.

632
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: It takes months, but we reached an agreement with a

633
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 1: company called Altered AI. Altered has worked on many major projects,

634
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: most of which it can't discuss because of non disclosure agreements.

635
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: One notable example is public though for the twenty twenty

636
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: three film Air, Altered recreated the voice of a young

637
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan. We're lucky then to partner with them. Air

638
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: had a seventy to ninety million dollar budget, US not

639
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: so much. I chat my zoom with Altered CEO my

640
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: name is. I asked me, honest, what he thought when

641
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: he got our request creativity?

642
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 18: You give someone a spool, and you said, I just

643
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 18: gave him a spoon, and suddenly he starts sculpturing something.

644
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 6: Right, you see.

645
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 18: People using in a completely unpredictable ways. So very interesting

646
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 18: to see how people can use the tool to create

647
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,160
Speaker 18: something completely new that may be a new form of heart.

648
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: That's fascinating that you say that, How do we rank

649
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 1: on the ranking of bizarre requests that you've received running

650
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: this company?

651
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 6: Like, I'm think people who have more bizarre like Like,

652
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 6: I think the best I've ever heard was something like

653
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 6: I want to be famous like my dad, so please

654
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 6: let me clane his voice.

655
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 11: I'm going to be famous like my dad. So I

656
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 11: don't know who whose child is.

657
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 6: No, Honestly, you're not but you are in the top

658
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 6: the top tail or something.

659
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 1: And altered all the audio we have of Robert Fisher,

660
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: the best grade and good clips eleven point five to

661
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: two minutes. They aren't sure if it's enough or of

662
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: sufficient quality to clone his voice, but they get to

663
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: work on a custom model. A few weeks later we

664
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: get an email success. What did you think when you

665
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: first heard it work?

666
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 18: I never heard a person of that level of let's

667
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 18: say evilness.

668
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 11: I don't know how to call it. You see movies

669
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 11: all the time about special characters and murderous characters, right,

670
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,560
Speaker 11: You've seen some videos of Along Hitler or others stalling

671
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 11: who killed people in scores.

672
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 18: But that was in the leaders side.

673
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 11: We never heard people are like every day they were

674
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 11: hiding and killing them.

675
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 18: So kind of putting a voice to that personality made

676
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 18: me wonder about what personality traits does the voice convey?

677
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 11: Okay, stunt this guy? Would I by his voice being

678
00:36:58,719 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 11: able to.

679
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 18: Say, see this person might be dangerous if I let

680
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 18: my kids close to him?

681
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:06,400
Speaker 3: For example?

682
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: What would you think if this voice project that we've

683
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 1: been doing. What would you think if this actually worked

684
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: and helped to catch him? That would be cool?

685
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 11: Way enough for him, and I will make the world

686
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 11: the better place.

687
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: I guess when we work with the visual artists the

688
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: forensic artists, one of the things that they tell us

689
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: about visual age progressed images, so taking the old photos

690
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: and updating them for what he would look like today

691
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: is their work is supposed to be representative, so it

692
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that image they produce is going to

693
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: be exactly what he looks like. That their goal is

694
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 1: to trigger somebody's mind to say that looks familiar. So

695
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: instead of saying this is exactly what he looks like,

696
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: if you trigger somebody out there their mind familiarity, maybe

697
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 1: they will think for a second, think for a minute

698
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: that this person they know could match the person that

699
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 1: we are looking for. And it's interesting because in some

700
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 1: ways this is almost an audio version of that where

701
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: we are using. I was very impressed that Altered was

702
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: able to do what it was able to do with

703
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: limited source audio of questionable quality, which is not your

704
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: fault at all, and you still were able to successfully

705
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 1: pull this off. And I think even if it's not

706
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: exactly what he sounds like today, my hope would be

707
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: that somebody out there it kind of maybe jogs their

708
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: memory or their mind a little bit that they can say, well,

709
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: that kind of sounds like so and so, and then,

710
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: especially if you combine that with the work we're doing

711
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: with visual forensic artists, if you think, well, that kind

712
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 1: of looks like and that kind of sounds like that's

713
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: a whole different way of approaching this versus just the

714
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: visual aspect. So, as far as I know, this is

715
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: the first time this has ever been done. Here's how

716
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: it works. Alter set us up with their software. We

717
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: cast our producer Chris Brown as Robert Fisher, which is

718
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: amusing because Chris is a kind, gentle guy, certainly not

719
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 1: a family killer. I script what I want Chris, excuse

720
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:06,439
Speaker 1: me Robert to say. We record his audio directly into

721
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: the altered AI studio, which is easy to use. I

722
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 1: press a button, Boom magic. Chris is now Robert Robert Chris.

723
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: Here are some samples before and after.

724
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 19: Hey everybody, Chris Brown here, I bet you're as surprised

725
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 19: as I am.

726
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Chris Brown here, I bet you're as surprised

727
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 2: as I am.

728
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 19: Don't worry, I'm not singing. I'll leave that for the

729
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 19: other Chris Brown.

730
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: Don't worry. I'm not singing. I'll leave that for the

731
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: other Chris Brown.

732
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 19: But enough about me. This is about me, Robert Fisher.

733
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: But enough about me. This is about me, Robert Fisher.

734
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: What you're gonna hear next is a fictional interview between

735
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: me and AI Robert. This is an experiment. There are

736
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: limitations if you hear Robert and think, man, that's not great.

737
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,760
Speaker 1: Remember we had to overcome severe challenges, only eleven point

738
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: five to two minutes of source material from tapes filmed

739
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: in the eighties and n many of which survived an

740
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: explosion and a house fire. I'm saying this because I

741
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: don't want it to reflect negatively on alter ed AI's capabilities.

742
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: They did us a favor. They were able to help

743
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: us when many other companies couldn't or wouldn't. Pay attention

744
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: to the sound of Robert's voice. We weren't able to

745
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: age it, so it's closer to what it sounded like

746
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: at forty than today. But still, do you recognize it?

747
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 1: Does it match anyone you know?

748
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 5: Without further ado, mister Fisher, I presume, yep, that's me.

749
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 5: Do you understand what we're doing here?

750
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: Not really?

751
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 5: Well, apparently I'm interviewing you.

752
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 2: How I'm still missing?

753
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 5: Yeah? I know. We recreated your voice using AI why

754
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 5: to see if anyone recognizes it, to get publicity so

755
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 5: we can find you, and to conduct an experiment with

756
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 5: cutting edge technology.

757
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: So am I real? Yes?

758
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 5: And no? Is that ethical in this context? Yes, you're

759
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 5: unpredictable and dangerous. We have to find you.

760
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 2: This is a gimmick.

761
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 5: If that's what you want to call it. Fine, I

762
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 5: don't want to speak to you. Well tough, that's the

763
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 5: beauty of this. You are not in control. I am

764
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 5: What do you mean? I can make you say whatever

765
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 5: I want.

766
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd like to see you try.

767
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:10,960
Speaker 5: Okay.

768
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 2: My name is Robert Fisher. Police believe I killed my

769
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 2: wife and kids. I caused people extreme pain and made

770
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 2: it worse by disappearing. I'm a coward. See what gives

771
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 2: you the right to play god? I can ask you

772
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 2: the same thing, smart ass. Look, I get it. AI

773
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: is exciting but also dangerous. It can make us doubt

774
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 2: what's real and believe to be real what's not. That's

775
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: rich And you think I'm the bad guy?

776
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 5: Yep? I do you profit off people's pain? Pain you caused?

777
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 5: And no, I'm not in it for money.

778
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 2: I bet you want to be famous.

779
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 5: No, trust me. I like my privacy, well.

780
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 2: So do I. Why are you trying so hard to

781
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: find me?

782
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 5: Because this is a fascinating case. I want to solve it,

783
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 5: and because you hurt so many people, I want to

784
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 5: help them.

785
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: All right, come on, then ask me some real questions,

786
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 2: like what what everyone wants you to ask about? The murders,

787
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: the fire, my escape.

788
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 5: I wish I could go on.

789
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: Then do it.

790
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 5: No, Robert, unlike you, I have ethical limits. I have

791
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 5: to be careful here. But trust me, the minute they

792
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,799
Speaker 5: drag your ass in, I'm happy to interview you.

793
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, but why would I speak to you?

794
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 5: Because I'm trying to be fair. I'm trying to tell

795
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 5: the world who you really are, good and bad. I

796
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 5: didn't just call you a monster and play scary music

797
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 5: and move on. So Bill, am I you were Robert Fisher?

798
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 2: No, I'm not.

799
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 5: No, you're not.

800
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 2: You're right. I'm Chris Brown, a producer.

801
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 5: Yes you are, last time I checked.

802
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: No, I'm Robert again. Okay, John, Can I be honest?

803
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 5: I don't know.

804
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 2: Can you you're biased? Oh?

805
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm biased, all right? Biased against child killers?

806
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 2: Whatever? You're never gonna find me.

807
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 5: Well, then I hope you suffer until you surrender or die.

808
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: Boh, okay, real professional.

809
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:50,839
Speaker 5: Don't you have any shame at all?

810
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 2: I think we're done here. Where's my lawyer?

811
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 5: Calm down, man, I'm not a cop.

812
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:55,359
Speaker 2: I don't care.

813
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 5: What do you care about? Do you even believe in God?

814
00:42:58,719 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 2: Yes?

815
00:42:59,120 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 14: I do?

816
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 5: And you think what You're just gonna live life on

817
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 5: the lamb and then die and go to heaven after

818
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 5: what you did. Maybe that's not gonna happen. Okay, you've

819
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 5: got to know that. Surrender now. It's the only way

820
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 5: you can redeem yourself at all.

821
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: No, no, what, No, I'm not gonna surrender.

822
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 5: Fine, in that case, I'm taking control.

823
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: John is in control of my voice. He can make

824
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 2: me say anything. I can't speak for myself. And less

825
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: I surrender or the police find me, I will live

826
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 2: in fear for the rest of my life that someone

827
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,760
Speaker 2: recognizes me. For that to happen, I need your help.

828
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 2: Put my face everywhere. Share the new wanted poster. Put

829
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: it all over social media, Send it to friends, family, coworkers, everyone.

830
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 2: If you're a celebrity, share my face. If you're an influencer,

831
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 2: share my face. If you're a billboard company, put out

832
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 2: my face. If you own movie theaters, air my face.

833
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,240
Speaker 2: If you're a reporter, do a story, put my face.

834
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 2: Everywhere they've worked with John List. They found him after

835
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 2: eighteen years, So don't just let this episode and then

836
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 2: forget about it and move on. Go to knee on

837
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 2: thirty three dot com to download the new wanted.

838
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: Poster and share my face next time I'm missing in Arizona.

839
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 9: One thing I'm going to recommend is if you have

840
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 9: an identical twin brother, don't be a fugitive.

841
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: You can reach us by phone at one eight three

842
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: three new tips. That's one eight three three six three

843
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: nine eight four seven seven, by email at tips at

844
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com, tip s at iHeartMedia dot com, online

845
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: at meon thirty three dot com, or on Twitter at

846
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: John Wallzac, j O n W A. L. Czak. Paul

847
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: Duckan is our executive producer, Chris Brown is our supervising producer.

848
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: Hannah Rose Snyder is our producer. Paul Gemperlin is our researcher,

849
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: Ben Bowen is a consulting producer. And I'm your host

850
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: and executive producer. John Waalzac special thanks to Wayne Stallert

851
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: and Kashia Katziura, and a big thank you to altered Ai.

852
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: For more information, visit alter dot Ai. Also thank you

853
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 1: to Mike Constanty, the researcher we hire to access archive

854
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: naval records. Additional production support provided by Ben Hackett AI.

855
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: Robert Fischer voiced by Chris Brown, Navy Ports of Call

856
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 1: List voiced by Lauren Vogelbaum. Cover art by Pam Peacock,

857
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: Neon thirty three. Logo designed by Derek Rudy. Our intro

858
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: song is Utopia by Ruby Cube. Please download the first

859
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 1: two seasons of our show, Missing in Alaska and Missing

860
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: on nine to eleven, and if you're so inclined, give

861
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,520
Speaker 1: us a five star rating. Missing in Arizona is a

862
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 1: co production of iHeartRadio and Neon thirty three