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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph.

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Speaker 2: I've never told your prediction of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: And we are back with the much awaited and much

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Speaker 3: delayed final episode on our Christianity and the Marginalized Community

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Speaker 3: slash Religious Trauma series. Yeah. I think it ended up

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Speaker 3: being like I want to say, ten to eleven episodes

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Speaker 3: in total, because we had a couple of splits in

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Speaker 3: some of our episodes. I know we did because there

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Speaker 3: was a lot of information, and so we're going to

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Speaker 3: do a quick recap of our very extended series. It's

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Speaker 3: not no longer a mini series because what we say

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Speaker 3: mini series is like three to four oh, which was

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Speaker 3: the original intent.

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Speaker 1: I think that's up for debate.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it's grown longer than we originally anticipated.

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Speaker 3: And listeners just for a peek behind the curtains and

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Speaker 3: he would be like, you're gonna do this week? I like,

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Speaker 3: no about this week. I want to talk about this instead.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to do this instead.

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Speaker 1: I don't want talk about this anymore.

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Speaker 3: But we made it. We finally made it because Andy

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Speaker 3: was like, look, I've dropped the ball on several occasions,

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Speaker 3: and she's like, you can make it up to be

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Speaker 3: by finishing the Damn series. It's like, yeah, you're right,

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Speaker 3: You're right.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to cross it off my list.

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Speaker 3: That's just haunting you. Yes, but yes we're gonna do

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Speaker 3: a click recap. So we talked about the historical context

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Speaker 3: of what religion is like today and how it came

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Speaker 3: to the beats point in the US, what religious trauma

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Speaker 3: is and how it affects the marginalized communities, the toxicity

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Speaker 3: of purity culture, and that was a deep one, y'all.

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Speaker 3: All of this have been deep, but like we really

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Speaker 3: dug into some things, especially in the United States, the

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Speaker 3: sexual abuse and sexual violence within a church culture, domestic

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Speaker 3: violence and the church of silence when it comes to

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Speaker 3: violence in general, especially with partner of violence. And then

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Speaker 3: we have victim blaming. Add to that was the victim

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Speaker 3: blaming and the even condoning by the church, and then

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Speaker 3: the church's view on divorce, and that was an interesting one,

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Speaker 3: and of course the role of women as wives. And

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Speaker 3: then Christianity and the queer community, and that was one

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Speaker 3: of those that we split into two because we had

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Speaker 3: a lot of conversations about that, especially about how both

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Speaker 3: sides feel when it comes to how especially the right

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Speaker 3: is talking and victimizing the queer community as well as

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Speaker 3: the past, things like conversion therapy, which is still hotly

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Speaker 3: talked about today. I've actually had several pieces come my way.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, damn it, why are we still talking about this?

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Speaker 3: Because it exists and people are still very bad people

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Speaker 3: with this really barbaric idea behind it. And as we

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Speaker 3: have previously said, there's a lot of personal trauma for

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Speaker 3: both Annie and I as well as for people as

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Speaker 3: a whole, and we are seeing it play out in

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Speaker 3: politics as well, especially Actually, it's all over the world.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of interesting how maybe we're just paying more attention,

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Speaker 3: or maybe we're just more connected because of social media,

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Speaker 3: but it's definitely rampant all over the world. But again,

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Speaker 3: just to reiterate, we aren't saying religion is all bad

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Speaker 3: or all corrupt, but that religious trauma and the alt

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Speaker 3: right ideology that has twisted Western Christianity is something we

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Speaker 3: should be aware of and continue to talk about. There

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Speaker 3: are those who truly seek a higher belief in faith

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Speaker 3: with good hearts and intentions meaning to fulfill their lives

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Speaker 3: and to do good work in the world. As I

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Speaker 3: have mentioned before, the words of Jesus are vastly different

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Speaker 3: from the interpretations of many of the conservative talking heads,

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Speaker 3: and biases exist within cultures and denominations, and we should

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Speaker 3: be diligent and wary of information based on those biases

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Speaker 3: and emotions. So that's the big caveat there now that

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Speaker 3: we have all of that out of the way. As

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Speaker 3: with again the other episodes, there is content warning with

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Speaker 3: mentions of anti queer rhetoric, hate speech, an overall unpleasant

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Speaker 3: view on what is happening today in our society. It

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Speaker 3: was for us, it is stressful for us to research it,

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Speaker 3: to dig into it, so we know it can be

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Speaker 3: for you as well. So just take that well in mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, So in the last episode we had to

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Speaker 2: split the episode because of the deep and long anti

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Speaker 2: queer history within Western Christianity and many other religions. We

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Speaker 2: already discussed some of the philosophical debates as well as

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Speaker 2: hate groups that are based off of faith based organizations,

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Speaker 2: and we delved into the darkness of conversion therapy, which

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Speaker 2: is still, yes, hotly debated today, still is a thing.

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Speaker 2: So today we wanted to talk about the attack on

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Speaker 2: the trans community by faith based organizations and politicians.

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Speaker 3: And we did separate this out of just we talked

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Speaker 3: about it in the Queer episode as well, but there's

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Speaker 3: a specific attack on trans communities in general, and it's

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Speaker 3: unfortunately assisted by turfs. Turfs are just people who would

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Speaker 3: call themselves feminism feminism, and we've seeing people who in

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Speaker 3: the queer community would also attack trans people in general

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Speaker 3: as well, and so we wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 3: we did talk about this because they have become a

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Speaker 3: fuckal point for many of the political conservatives out there today.

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Speaker 3: So when it comes to talking about the trans community,

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Speaker 3: it can feel a bit overwhelming and exhausting. And this

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Speaker 3: is from my point of view, and yes that's to

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Speaker 3: say for those of us who aren't a part of

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Speaker 3: that community can only understand a fraction of those emotions.

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Speaker 3: So I'm not trying to put any words in anybody's mouth.

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Speaker 3: I understand that I do not understand the full depth

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Speaker 3: of it. But a part of this is also understanding

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Speaker 3: and reteaching ourselves or others of the ever changing language

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Speaker 3: and rhetoric, which is important for us to honor and

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Speaker 3: follow through with. I will admit for me it is

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Speaker 3: difficult sometimes not because I don't respect it, but because

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Speaker 3: re educating myself and growing with it is a constant process.

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Speaker 3: But for the sake of this episode, if we are

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Speaker 3: using an outdated time something there that is no longer relevant,

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Speaker 3: please let us know kindly, because the amount of information

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Speaker 3: we have to swim through for the series specifically can

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Speaker 3: be overwhelming, and then we try to find the most

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Speaker 3: updated information. Sometimes it doesn't always happen. Also, we will

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Speaker 3: let you know ahead of time, but we do research

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Speaker 3: the conservative sites as well to see their reasoning and

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Speaker 3: more likely the misinformation they used to push their narratives.

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Speaker 3: So if we use their direct quotes, the speech may

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Speaker 3: be dated. Again, we will be trying to censor anything

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Speaker 3: that is offensive, but want you to understand why that

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Speaker 3: might be in here. Again, I say this as a

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Speaker 3: person from I am Technically people are still arguing whether

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Speaker 3: or not elder millennials exist, and I'm being told that

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Speaker 3: I am gen X. I'm like, well, someone tell me

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Speaker 3: what I am because I am right on that cusp.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of that. The language has changed vastly

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Speaker 3: over the past forty years, and I'd love to see

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Speaker 3: it because again we finally come to the point of

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Speaker 3: understanding that it is the spectrum and no longer just

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Speaker 3: like black and white. You have known, because many of

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Speaker 3: you have taught me. I am growing with this conversation.

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Speaker 3: So I just want to put that as a caveat,

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Speaker 3: like I may be saying something outdated. I don't realize

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Speaker 3: any and I have to do an episode of what

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Speaker 3: was I feel like at least every two years to

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Speaker 3: come back to learn the new terms and what that

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Speaker 3: marginalized group may think is offensive, even though people may

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Speaker 3: have tried to use it as a better way. So

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Speaker 3: all that, I just had to put that there. Now, Okay,

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Speaker 3: that sidebar out of the way. Here's some things to know.

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Speaker 3: The trans community has always been a target for conservative

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Speaker 3: Christian groups, and the reason has everything to do with

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Speaker 3: power and fear mongering. In fact, in a focus on

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Speaker 3: the Family article, which we have already noted as a

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Speaker 3: type of hate group with a very strategic method of

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Speaker 3: turning the nation into a Christian national estate. We talked

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Speaker 3: about them previously, and while we are talking about focusing

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Speaker 3: the family, Yes, this is going to have some offensive ideology.

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Speaker 3: Please understand that they point out quote patterns that might

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Speaker 3: be causing confusion and children, and again not my words,

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Speaker 3: this is how they're putting it. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: the article is titled a Biblical View on Transgender Identity,

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Speaker 3: A Primer for Parents and Strugglers. Yeah, and some of

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Speaker 3: those patterns include the breakdown of family, abuse or abandonment

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Speaker 3: from parents, trauma survivors, or they have mental illness quote unquote,

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Speaker 3: they are in LGBT influences, so they're watching a lot

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Speaker 3: of LGBT influencers. They are showing porn or watch porn,

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Speaker 3: and they're a victim of sexual abuse. I think it's

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Speaker 3: obvious that there's a pattern here on what they're trying

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Speaker 3: to blame transgenderism on as what just in any like

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Speaker 3: queer community on they really really have been onto this, like, oh,

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Speaker 3: they've been exploited and they've been abused and all these things.

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Speaker 3: And Annie and I've already previously talked about this, how

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Speaker 3: trauma is there short short, sure, but it's not the cause,

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Speaker 3: because if it was the cause, I feel like there'd

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Speaker 3: be way more everybody should be trans are queer.

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Speaker 1: Just like.

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Speaker 2: And in that same article, they mentioned gender dysphoria, but

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Speaker 2: they also focus on rapid onset gender dysphoria, which is

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Speaker 2: a controversial and recent hypothesis that has not been substantiated

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Speaker 2: by the science community, and in fact, many have discussed

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Speaker 2: the limited and inconsistent study and the methodology of it.

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Speaker 2: But organizations like Focus on the Family really jumped on board.

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Speaker 2: Here's how they defined it. Quote. An increasing social phenomenon

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Speaker 2: affects teens and adults who have identified with their own

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Speaker 2: biological sex for years, then decide they want to change

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Speaker 2: genders and sometimes alter their bodies. This developmental crisis, seen

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Speaker 2: especially among adolescents, is seemingly associated with peer contagions such

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Speaker 2: as social media influencers celebrating the ideology of gender fluidity,

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Speaker 2: peers embracing transgender behavior as popular in trendy and as

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Speaker 2: an avenue for social celebration, or unique recognition clubs sponsored

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Speaker 2: with public school systems to promote acceptance of the lesbian, gay, bisexual,

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Speaker 2: and transgender LGBT identity framework.

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Speaker 3: Right again, hint, we see a pattern here. And as

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Speaker 3: we said earlier, this is not an accredited diagnosis or theory.

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Speaker 3: Like I remember when I was reading THEO Like, that's

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Speaker 3: not a thing. What is this? So here's a quote

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Speaker 3: from Scientific American, the American Psychological Association, and sixty one

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Speaker 3: other healthcare provider organizations signed a letter in twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: one denouncing the validity of a rapid onset gender dysphoria

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Speaker 3: or ROGD as a clinical diagnosis, and a steadily growing

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Speaker 3: body of scientific evidence demonstrates that it does not reflect

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Speaker 3: transgender adolescent experiences and that quote social contagion is not

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Speaker 3: causing more young people to seek gender affirming care. Still,

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Speaker 3: the concept continues to be used to us to fight

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Speaker 3: anti trans legislation across the US, and the article goes

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Speaker 3: on quoting a professional quote to even say it's a

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Speaker 3: hypothesis at this point, based on the paucity of research

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Speaker 3: on this, I think is a stretch, says Eli Coleman,

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Speaker 3: a former president of the World Professional Association for Transcendent Help.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, this concept is being widely used by churches

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Speaker 2: and politicians to create these harmful anti trans bills and propaganda.

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Speaker 2: According to trans legislation dot Com, there are currently eighty

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Speaker 2: three anti trans bills that have been passed and three

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Speaker 2: hundred and sixty six that are still active, and many

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Speaker 2: of them include felony charges for guardians, medical professionals, and

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Speaker 2: businesses that allow drag shows. And again, there are bills

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Speaker 2: that are going after the education system as well that

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Speaker 2: revolve around anti trans rhetoric. But with that, there are

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Speaker 2: many Christian groups and organizations that disagree with this tactic.

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Speaker 2: Here are some quotes from a recent PBS article. Faith

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Speaker 2: leaders who sport transgender rights bristle at the use of

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Speaker 2: religious rhetoric to marginalize trans people. As a Christian leader,

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Speaker 2: it's horrifying to me that Christianity and the Bible are

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Speaker 2: being used by the religious right to bludgeon people through

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Speaker 2: these many bills, said Serene Jones, the president of Union

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Speaker 2: Theological Seminary in New York City. To use religious language

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Speaker 2: like that is in an abomination, she said. They are

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Speaker 2: threatening the lives and well being of so many people

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Speaker 2: around the US and the world. And here's another one.

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Speaker 2: The leader of one of the largest mainline Protestant denominations,

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Speaker 2: the Reverend Elizabeth Eaton of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America,

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Speaker 2: has condemned the anti trans bill as an attack on

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Speaker 2: trans people's humanity. While members of our church hold various

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Speaker 2: convictions regarding gender, the teaching of our church supports legislation

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Speaker 2: and policies to protect every person's human dignity, and civil rights.

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Speaker 2: Eton said in a recent statement, our church teaches that

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Speaker 2: we affirm transgender and non binary siblings as God's children.

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Speaker 3: And the level of false narratives and moral objections that

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Speaker 3: are being used to enact these laws are unfortunately working,

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Speaker 3: with many white conservative Christians believing the false theories such

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Speaker 3: as the rapid onset gender dysmorphia and willing to use

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Speaker 3: politics to control what they fear is the end of

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Speaker 3: a good old days, which we're about to talk about

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Speaker 3: in a bit.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, which does bring us to a larger

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Speaker 2: conversation of religion and politics, and more specifically Christian nationalism.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So we've talked already about the hazards of Christian

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Speaker 3: nationalism and the opinions of many when they hear the

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Speaker 3: words in in itself and the association. Of course, there

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Speaker 3: are many who believe that the country was always intended

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Speaker 3: on being a Christian nation once again forgetting the idea

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Speaker 3: of religious liberty. But we also know that the plans

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Speaker 3: were made up by white men of power, so whatever

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Speaker 3: keeps them in power is most likely the intent for

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Speaker 3: this still very young nation.

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Speaker 2: Right, But according to one report from the Public Religion

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Speaker 2: Research Institute, a nonpartisan research organization. Only one in ten

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Speaker 2: truly adhere to the strict principles of the Christian nationalist

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Speaker 2: Here's what they said quote. To be sure, most Americans

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Speaker 2: are not Christian nationalists, we find that just one in

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Speaker 2: ten Americans may be characterized as strong adherence to Christian

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Speaker 2: nationalist principles. Yet for both men and women, the same

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Speaker 2: percent ten percent qualify as adherents, and approximately two in

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Speaker 2: ten qualify as Christian nationalism sympathizers eighteen percent of men

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Speaker 2: and twenty percent of women. And they go on writing

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Speaker 2: about the roles of women in this type of structure.

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Speaker 2: Among Christian nationalism adherents, there is a strong correlation with

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Speaker 2: the notion that women are the weaker sex. We find

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Speaker 2: that nearly seven to ten adherents, sixty nine percent agree

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Speaker 2: that quote. In a truly Christian family, the husband is

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Speaker 2: the head of the household and his wife submits to

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Speaker 2: his leader. By contrast, two thirds sixty four percent of

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Speaker 2: Americans overall disagree with that sentiment. Given that Christian nationalists

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Speaker 2: endorsed the biblical view of male headship, it should perhaps

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Speaker 2: not be surprising that more than six and ten Christian

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Speaker 2: nationalism adherents sixty six percent also believe that society as

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Speaker 2: a whole has become too soft and feminine, and more

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Speaker 2: than two thirds believe that society seems to punish men

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Speaker 2: just for acting like men.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and man. Why is it that if it's such

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Speaker 3: a small point of view, we've heard it so much,

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Speaker 3: you know, like literally they're saying, sixty four percent of

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Speaker 3: those people are like no, no, no, no, no. Literally, ten

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Speaker 3: percent believe this level. Twenty percent may sympathize with it,

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Speaker 3: and I find that fascinating, But that we hear that

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Speaker 3: the loudest Again, I think we've talked about this many

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Speaker 3: times and how loudly they do speak, and they try

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Speaker 3: to push that narrative. But if this is true, which

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Speaker 3: they are a prestigious research center, then we know that

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Speaker 3: by far most people are like what right, But we

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Speaker 3: hear it so much we start to believe that maybe

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Speaker 3: it's true. I just I wonder, like the amount of

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Speaker 3: people who really bought into this idea and has gotten

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Speaker 3: so loud hasn't been since the beginning of like the

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Speaker 3: in cell groups growing bigger and bigger and bigger and

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Speaker 3: growing with social media or like the platforms, And therefore

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Speaker 3: this is spread so loudly, and maybe like what we're

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Speaker 3: looking at with this type of narrative is based on

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Speaker 3: the growth of that type of misinformation and stiff spreading online.

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Speaker 3: That's a whole different conversation, I know, but it just

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Speaker 3: kind of popped him out of the head. I was like, hmm,

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Speaker 3: there's a correlation, which is why Bridget has a whole

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Speaker 3: show about it. But still, but I just wondered. So unsurprisingly,

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Speaker 3: some of the biggest supporters of Christian Nationalists are very

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Speaker 3: loud women. And please don't take that to me. He's

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Speaker 3: saying that women shouldn't be loud, but it just seems

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Speaker 3: to be the very over the top vocal people think

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Speaker 3: Marjorie Taylor Green, who literally chases people down streams in

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Speaker 3: their face and ironically claims the whole godly wife ideals

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Speaker 3: with two of these women in public offices, going through

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Speaker 3: divorces and very controversial relationships currently including like diddling each

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Speaker 3: other in front in like a public audience at a

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Speaker 3: Broadway show. Yeah, so he's going like, is that already

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Speaker 3: or that just sad? Green was even quoted as saying

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Speaker 3: we came from Adam's rib. God created us with his hands.

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Speaker 3: We may be the weaker sex. We are the weaker sex,

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Speaker 3: but we are our partners. Our husband's wife again, she's divorced, y'all.

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Speaker 3: She left him for a man that she met at CrossFit.

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Speaker 1: Is it ironic or is it that it's still of

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Speaker 1: the entire episode here at all?

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Speaker 3: But yeah, literally having that and as one of the things.

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Speaker 3: But we have seen how women have been at the

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Speaker 3: forefront and pushing this narrative and the patriarchal systems as well,

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Speaker 3: all in the name of Jesus. Tradwives and many other

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Speaker 3: movements that have heavily pushed the white Christian agenda are

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Speaker 3: the base of many of the men and organizations who

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Speaker 3: again push to bring this type of ownership to the country.

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Speaker 3: And we've talked about them before when we talked about

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Speaker 3: the women behind these movements, which probablybe we should bring

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Speaker 3: back out. It could be a subset of the series.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it seems to be a whole conversation about

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Speaker 3: who actually is controlling this. I will say there was

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Speaker 3: an ironic article from a Christian organization who was like,

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Speaker 3: women need to be in charge because da da da

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Speaker 3: da da, And he was trying to be funny, and

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Speaker 3: it was kind of funny, but at the same times

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Speaker 3: like is he being for real? Because that's actually a

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Speaker 3: smart way to go right. I mean, we've seen it

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Speaker 3: for liberty and Mom's demand, all these They are a

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Speaker 3: forceful organization in these movements and we've seen it. And

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Speaker 3: a part of this push is the fear inducing tactic

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Speaker 3: that morality is lost. Many of the conservatives have loudly

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Speaker 3: proclaimed that liberals are ruining the country or has my

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Speaker 3: mother said to me, I've become one of those people

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Speaker 3: trying to ruin this country. This is in regards to

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Speaker 3: me being on a feminist podcast, and she told my

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Speaker 3: father this when he was trying to get her to

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Speaker 3: stop talking, literally like she's the reason. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I'm putting me in a third person now, isn't that?

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Speaker 3: And it's working. My mother again as an example, we

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Speaker 3: figured things out, but we don't talk about things. But

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Speaker 3: with that there are more likely to lean harder into

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Speaker 3: their conservative ideals and seek to blame others. Here's a

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Speaker 3: quote from the News dot Berkeley dot edu article. In

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Speaker 3: a twenty nineteen speed, then US Attorney General William P.

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Speaker 3: Barr warned that the rise of a militant secularism is

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Speaker 3: causing a moral upheaval reflected in violence, drug use, and

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Speaker 3: pregnancy outside of marriage, and can you see what they're

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Speaker 3: doing in this quote? He says. Quote we are told

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Speaker 3: we are living in a post Christian era, said bar

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Speaker 3: a Catholic. I don't know why I'd say that. Way,

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Speaker 3: there you go, But what has replaced the Judeo Christian

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Speaker 3: moral system? What is it that can fill the spiritual

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Speaker 3: void in the hearts of the individual person, and what

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Speaker 3: is a system of values that can sustain human social life.

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Speaker 3: The fact is that no secular creed has emerged capable

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Speaker 3: of performing the role of religion. But the critique is

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Speaker 3: an expression of nostalgia for an imagined Golden Age, an age,

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Speaker 3: said Stall, a contributor for Berkeley and a professor that

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Speaker 3: never existed. The fiction that some people are trying to

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Speaker 3: build is that there's a singular conservative Christianity that had

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Speaker 3: a hate in the past and that can be reclaimed

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Speaker 3: now and used to fashion a new American society.

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Speaker 1: She explained.

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Speaker 3: Some people think we should have returned to the nineteen

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Speaker 3: fifties or the seventeen nineties. Those are very clearly moments

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Speaker 3: in which racial inequality and racial hierarchies are enshrined in law.

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Speaker 3: And yet we're gonna talk a little more about that

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Speaker 3: in a minute. But again, I think that's such a

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Speaker 3: great point, and I really do want to come back

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Speaker 3: to that later. Probably had a whole different context, but

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Speaker 3: the fact that people have this imagined, ideal, idealized thing

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Speaker 3: of like this is the perfect time and this was

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Speaker 3: then amazing time of family. There's never been such a thing.

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Speaker 3: There's always been outright war due to religion. There's always

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Speaker 3: been colonialism and violence because of religion. There's been fighting

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Speaker 3: within denominations. The Southern Baptist and Baptists split how many times.

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Speaker 3: Catholicism in itself has split how many times, And it's

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Speaker 3: because of the disagreement of what is the perfect time

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Speaker 3: or what is the perfect religion. And I find that

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Speaker 3: fascinating that there is the one thing that's been uniting

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Speaker 3: the far right is do you remember those good old

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Speaker 3: days which never existed, and try to get back to

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Speaker 3: the good old days?

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Speaker 1: Right? It is very imagined.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, huh, the danger of nostalgia everyone, And it is

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Speaker 2: these people who are pushing to change the political landscape today.

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Speaker 2: According to a February twenty twenty three MPR article more

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Speaker 2: than half of Republicans actually support Christian nationalism. Here's a

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Speaker 2: quote from that article. According to a new survey from

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Speaker 2: the Public Religion Research Institute and the Brookings Institution, researchers

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Speaker 2: found that more than half of Republicans believe the country

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Speaker 2: should be a strictly Christian nation, either adhering to the

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Speaker 2: ideals of Christian nationalism. Twenty one percent are sympathizing with

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Speaker 2: those views thirty three percent and they continue. Christian nationalism

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Speaker 2: is a worldview that claims the US is a Christian

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Speaker 2: nation that the country's laws should therefore be rooted in

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Speaker 2: Christian values. This point of view has long been most

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Speaker 2: prominent and white evangelical spaces, but lately it's been getting

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Speaker 2: lip service in Republican ones too. During an interview at

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Speaker 2: a Turning Point USA event last August, Representative Marjorie Taylor

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Speaker 2: Green from Bucan, Georgia said party leaders need to be

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Speaker 2: more responsive to the base of the party, which she

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Speaker 2: claimed is made up of Christian nationalist We need to

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Speaker 2: be the party of nationalism, she said. I am a

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Speaker 2: Christian and I say it proudly. We should be Christian nationalist.

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Speaker 3: Right can you see who the face of Christian nationalism

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Speaker 3: is at this point. Yeah, I think she's one of

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Speaker 3: the biggest faces for it because she's so damn allowed.

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Speaker 3: In many of the articles we found had at least

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Speaker 3: one quote from Green to represent what some of the

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Speaker 3: politicians are referred to when they say or when they

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Speaker 3: talk about going taking the country again. Again, very fascinating.

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Speaker 3: And so those numbers, again we want to kind of emphasize,

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Speaker 3: although it sounds a little different from the previous numbers,

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Speaker 3: it's not because they're counting those who are supporters and sympathizers,

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Speaker 3: and it also Republicans. So just from a reminder that

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Speaker 3: they're talking about specific, selective groups and it makes me sad.

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Speaker 3: And again I don't know they truly understand what that is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, but many Christians are also opposed to

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Speaker 2: this type of narrative. In a christianity dot com article,

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Speaker 2: they talk about some of the dangers of this type

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Speaker 2: of foundation and they write about three reasons why it

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Speaker 2: is dangerous. Number one, Christian nationalism is a quest for

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Speaker 2: political power rather than an embodiment of the Christian mission.

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Speaker 2: And here they write about the constant graph for power

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Speaker 2: supremacy quote, Christian nationalism, far from being a missional effort

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Speaker 2: to make the name and way of Jesus known in America,

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Speaker 2: is fundamentally a battle for cultural recognition and legal privilege.

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Speaker 2: And they continue saying, since Christian nationalists believe that the

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Speaker 2: nation itself is at stake, virtues such as kindness, gentleness,

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Speaker 2: and compassion can be placed aside if doing so will

434
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: advance the cause of taking the country back.

435
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: And so this is number two. Christian nationalism is as

436
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 3: unconstitutional as it is unbiblical, so they explain. While it

437
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,200
Speaker 3: is enough that Christian nationalism is a quest for power

438
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 3: and control at odds, with the New Testament's depiction of

439
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 3: Christ's kingdom being quote not of this world, it is

440
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 3: worth noting that it's also unconstitutional. And if Christian nationalists believe,

441
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 3: as many do, that the founding documents of America are

442
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 3: divinely inspired, or at least firmly Christian, then advocating for

443
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 3: the violation of those documents become a self defeating argument.

444
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 3: And it goes on to say, seeking to privilege Christianity

445
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 3: above other religions violates this value, which Christians have certainly

446
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 3: benefited from, and many of whom have fought preserve. Protecting

447
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 3: religious liberty is foundational to respecting the dignity of other

448
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 3: humans created in the image of God. It also protects Christians.

449
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 3: If religious liberty were to be weakened or gutted, and

450
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 3: leaders who disagree with Christian doctrine were elected, the opportunity

451
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 3: for government persecution of Christians would, for the first time

452
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 3: in our nation's history, be real instead of merely imagined.

453
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 3: And I think that's such a great point. I really

454
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 3: this is something that I may actually have to be

455
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 3: bringing up to my parents, which I've done before because

456
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 3: I talked to them about when we Mitt Romney was

457
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 3: running for office, if they were willing to vote for

458
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 3: Home I'm like, you know, he's a Mormon, right, And

459
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 3: they're like yeah. I was like, so if we come

460
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 3: to the point that we're allowing someone to dictate religion,

461
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 3: what if he does everything based on his beliefs, which

462
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 3: my parents are like, oh my god, what same thing

463
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 3: as with Catholic president. I was like, what about that?

464
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 3: Because they are very opposed to Catholicism. I don't think

465
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 3: they understand what Catholicism is, but they are very opposed

466
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: to it. But that conversation is you really can't understand

467
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 3: what is happening, and you're really banking and thinking that

468
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 3: all they're all your people who you don't even like.

469
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 3: Southern Baptists. My parents were firmly against me going to

470
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 3: a Southern Baptist church because they are not Southern Baptists.

471
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: They thought they were too snoppy and not religious enough.

472
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 3: So I was, like, you don't even like them. What

473
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 3: has happened? They do, They've changed since then, But like,

474
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: that's the level of divide and opposition that the denominations

475
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: had that they don't. They oppose each other so much

476
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 3: that they are willing to say this way is better.

477
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 3: So I find that interesting that like, you are setting

478
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 3: yourself up to be persecuted as well, that you've truly

479
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 3: never been.

480
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

481
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 2: Right, And that brings us to number three. Christian nationalism

482
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 2: is inextricably connected with xenophobia and conspiracy theory. Yes, the

483
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: author acknowledges this as well. They write, Christian nationalism is

484
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: meant to privilege a particular set of cultural values held

485
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 2: by the founding generation of America, a culture of which

486
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 2: people of any and every national or ethnic origin can assimilate. Nevertheless,

487
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 2: at a popular level, Christian nationalism almost invariably devolves into

488
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: rhetoric and language that has elements of white supremacy, discrimination,

489
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: and xenophobia. And that is because by its very nature,

490
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: the Christian nationalist definition of Christian culture is co located

491
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 2: with white culture.

492
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 3: I think as we look at the entirety of our episodes,

493
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: we see that as the common theme, the hierarchy and power,

494
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: that is the basis and motives for many, led by

495
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: those in power, followed by many because of the conspiracy theory,

496
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 3: and I think we also have to acknowledge and recognize

497
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 3: that the setup is for white cis hetero men period,

498
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 3: followed by white women because this is what they see

499
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: as the ultimate power. I can with that false narrative

500
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: that Jesus was white, He wasn't married, He was technically

501
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,719
Speaker 3: asexual like in everything, if anything, he never had interest

502
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: with women, He never had interest in men. He had

503
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 3: interest in one thing only And if we're going biblically,

504
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 3: and that's just to like love God and move on

505
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 3: and that's it. Like even with his preachings, it was

506
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 3: always very gentle and it was action. It was rarely

507
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 3: in words. And we see the words. Don't get me wrong,

508
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: we see the red when I mean by that you

509
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 3: see read writing for Jesus' words in the Bible. But

510
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: the majority of the time we see his actions and

511
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 3: his follows. Whether it was feeding children, feeding people, whether

512
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: it's saying silent and meditating. We see so many things,

513
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 3: whether it's taking a whip and going after those who

514
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 3: would try to profit off of his words and profit

515
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 3: off of things. That's the only time he ever got mad.

516
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 3: I still love that. Like part of that is like

517
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 3: the only time he ever got mad was very methodical

518
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 3: because he had to like literally put together a whip

519
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 3: and then he just went after those who were taking

520
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: advantage and of the others with fear mongering, saying, if

521
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 3: you want to truly be in heaven, if you want

522
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 3: to be in good graces, you'll buy these sacrifices. That

523
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 3: was it. And he was like, wait, what this is

524
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 3: not what's negated. So I find that again fascinating that

525
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 3: many of people don't want to hear that.

526
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: Again.

527
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: I have my opinions about Paul. We know, it's very

528
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: very like I feel like I'll have a battle with

529
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: a dude. It's fine, But I just I think there's

530
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 3: so many things to this conversation that is all together

531
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: left out. But what we're talking about here, what we're

532
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: talking about in the past nine ten eleven episodes, is

533
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: the dangers of these conspiracy theories that have taken hold.

534
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 3: And yeah, morality, the basis of morality is a conspiracy theory,

535
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: this idea of the rapid onset body dysmorphia conspiracy like that,

536
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 3: there's nothing else, there's nothing that they want to blame

537
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: things in order to have an excuse of ways to

538
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 3: get rid of things that you can't as well as

539
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 3: to not put yourself in a place of holding yourself

540
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: accountable that what you're doing is unkind and inhumane.

541
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 2: Right, And I think for so long, and this is

542
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: my personal experience, but I bet a lot of you

543
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: can relate. For so long, it just wasn't a thing

544
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: that you did. You didn't say you weren't religious, you

545
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: didn't criticize religion because it was viewed as this moral thing.

546
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: So there's something wrong with you morally if you have

547
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: a question about it or you don't agree with it,

548
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: and so it just sort of we haven't talked about

549
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: it for so long, and I like that we're talking

550
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 2: about it more now, because for a while I was

551
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 2: too afraid to even bring it up.

552
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: Even on the show.

553
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: When I first started, it would be like, well, no,

554
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: we're talking about religion today. We'd have a whole conversation

555
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: about it and how mad people were going to get.

556
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: And I think, like going back to that good old

557
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: day thing that you were talking about, Samantha, I feel

558
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: like people who don't even maybe you haven't even read

559
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 2: the Bible, maybe don't even remember it, but they use

560
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 2: it as like, oh, this was a better time. The

561
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: Bible is this moral like unsaleable moral.

562
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: Thing, right, and you.

563
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 2: Are going against it and therefore you are wrong, when

564
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 2: really they either didn't read it, didn't get it purposely

565
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: didn't get it, like yeah.

566
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: Right, the taking of one Biblical verse and then using

567
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 3: it as your theme, and then you come back to

568
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: look at it and you're like, oh, there are so

569
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: many things that I remember about you are taking that

570
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: way out of context. I need you. There's one about

571
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 3: pretty much God will not give you more than you

572
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 3: can handle type of thing. And then like just all

573
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 3: these things, which is a nice sentiment, it is a

574
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 3: nice sentimentation is beyond that that there's so many into

575
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 3: it where he says like He's building you up and

576
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: it's gonna put you on the brink of all these things.

577
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: Like there's so many conversations that you're like, that's not

578
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 3: what that means, though, and then having people use that

579
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: to people maybe by the answer and are about to

580
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 3: die or people who lost somebody, You're like, that's not,

581
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 3: that's not why would I want to believe God? Like

582
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: that's again for those who need that, who have that

583
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 3: passage as the thing that that really caps them through,

584
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 3: that's amazing. I hope you do. But once again, understand

585
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: that that's not always reassure as it is, and it's

586
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 3: also taking out of context, Like there's so many conversations

587
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: where that if you'll do this one thing, then God

588
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 3: will bless you. This is God's blessing and if you

589
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 3: get good things and then this is obviously God blessing you,

590
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: in which you're like, but so many bad people get

591
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: good things? Why why is that happening? So many good

592
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 3: people have so many bad things. Of course, that's the

593
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: constant argument about going against God, and that's always like

594
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 3: a focal point for any Christian movies.

595
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: I love it.

596
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 3: And then how they rise above. Something could always happen.

597
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 2: It doesn't work that have faith even when the americles

598
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 2: don't happens about the.

599
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And we're not trying to like denegrate that

600
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 3: in any way in that saying that believing that is

601
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: a bad thing or whatever whatnot, if it's helped you,

602
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 3: But the conversation is that you're using that against people,

603
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 3: which has happened more often than not. And then also

604
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 3: this also has been a way of let's say, well,

605
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: this rich person, it was so blessed, must be so

606
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 3: godly and then being able to write on that Trump

607
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 3: is the perfect example of that. He's got all these

608
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 3: things because God has blessed them, and now he's in

609
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: he's the image of God, which still just blows my mind.

610
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 3: Like if you automatically placed him as one of the

611
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 3: most godly people, I don't trust you as a Christian.

612
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 3: You are not truly a Christian. Like it's sorry, that's

613
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: just that that's going to be automatic number one for

614
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 3: anybody outside of Christian reality. Religion, which the whole purpose

615
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 3: of Christianity is both grows and understand is to convert

616
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 3: others to save people, which is colonialism. And that's a

617
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 3: whole conversation that we're not getting into today. But that's

618
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 3: the whole point. So if that's your whole point, all

619
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 3: of a sudden it's changed to oh no, it's to

620
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 3: say what's mine? Are you really Christian?

621
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: Right?

622
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 3: Yeah?

623
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: And I just feel like there's so much hypocrisy and

624
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 2: picking and choosing of like yeah, what versus or this

625
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: is definitely true that other ones not true though, and

626
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 2: what you kind of recite back and and it's definitely

627
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: been weaponized in that context as well of yeah, like oh,

628
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 2: this person's rich, they must be great.

629
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 1: I remember when because I stopped.

630
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 2: I think I was in seventh grade when I was like,

631
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 2: I'm not religious anymore.

632
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: I don't believe in this.

633
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 2: And my one of my good friends was very, very religious,

634
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: and the Rock War had just happened, and I was

635
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 2: kind of like publicly against it, and she sat down

636
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 2: in front of me and she took my hands in

637
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,280
Speaker 2: her hands and she gave me some Bible verse about

638
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: how it was like necessary, and I just remember sitting

639
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 2: there like, wait, but that's kind of what's happening in

640
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: the Republican Party is it's like that it's like this

641
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 2: strange here's this Bible verse. Let me make it fit

642
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: into what I want you to believe in what I

643
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: want to do, even if that's not.

644
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 1: What it means there was intended. Yeah right.

645
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 3: I also read some articles about how liberals will never

646
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 3: truly be able to defeat any of these conversations. Really

647
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 3: ever like went out in any of this conversation is

648
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 3: because their belief is so centered around words that you

649
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 3: can't really take apart because it's there obviously, and you

650
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 3: can read the context and you could disagree with them

651
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 3: and tell them like I've had many a conversation even

652
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,720
Speaker 3: when I was really really deep into all of these things,

653
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 3: where you can tell me this is this is what

654
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 3: it was meant for me, this is how it was

655
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 3: spoken to me. And me, as a person who actually

656
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,720
Speaker 3: studied the Bible for so long and wrote so many

657
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 3: like flowery messages to myself and others about believing in

658
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 3: the strength of these things, I would have a hard

659
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,399
Speaker 3: time sitting my parents down like this is inaccurate. This

660
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 3: is why it's inaccurate. And I've tried, actually because I

661
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 3: don't and I'm not trying to convert my parents because

662
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 3: they're happy. I'm not necessarily trying to convert them, but

663
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 3: of course it has strained our relationship because of the

664
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 3: way they've used it against me. But I came in,

665
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, this is not right. She's like, oh,

666
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 3: your dad has a great explanation about why you're wrong,

667
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 3: and these act these are actually correct. And I was like,

668
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 3: but do you remember they finally got away from King

669
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 3: James about ten years ago, but they were absolutely appalled

670
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 3: when I brought in a different version of the Bible,

671
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 3: saying that that was blasphemous. And I was like, oh

672
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 3: my god, what is what is happening? And to like

673
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 3: they have graduated from that to telling me like, theologically, no,

674
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 3: they're not wrong and it is historically accurate. And then

675
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 3: I'm like, do you know about the chippogryphics, which is

676
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 3: the additions that they found? You know about the Dead

677
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 3: Sea scrolls that has additional words in there, and it's

678
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 3: conflicting and they don't like this, and they like this

679
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 3: there are things that are missing, But then you keep

680
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: telling me that I'm the wrong one for explaining the theory.

681
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 3: And again they find that education is sin and that's

682
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: what's ruining the country as well, Like they blame education

683
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: for being used instead of faith, and it's just kind

684
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 3: of like, Okay, faith is a nice belief as long

685
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: as it gives you comfort when you need it, and

686
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 3: that's fine, but when you use it to hold it

687
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 3: against other people, to blame other people and say that

688
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: things like the queer community or the transgender community are

689
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 3: destroying something when it has nothing to do with you. Again,

690
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 3: my parents have never actually met a transperson. I think

691
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 3: they've met a non binary person and they're just like full,

692
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 3: okay and that's the end. But they somehow, somehow it

693
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:37,320
Speaker 3: is affecting them.

694
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,959
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I've told you before.

695
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,439
Speaker 2: I had my teacher in seventh grade told me it's

696
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 2: like I'm watching you walk off a cliff and I

697
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 2: just want to save you. And I was like, right,

698
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,399
Speaker 2: leave me be, I shall walk off myself.

699
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 3: I had a coworker sit in my office, she was

700
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: my supervisor actually tell me. She's like, I just so

701
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 3: scared for you, and I was like, well, if you

702
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 3: makes you feel better, I got baptized and that's whatever

703
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 3: I seems to take your work. So you know, either way,

704
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm not trying to take that too lightly,

705
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 3: but it's true. I both fully believe that at one

706
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 3: point I had been quote unquote saved by Jesus, and

707
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 3: I accepted him into my heart, had a testimony about it.

708
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 3: Everything I did mission work, I got baptized, I got

709
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: sent out letters. I try to colonize people. I'm sorry

710
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 3: in general, and all those things. I try to do

711
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 3: it in works, in social work, I try to do

712
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 3: all the things. So technically, if you truly believed salvation,

713
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: is that permanent. As you've seen, I'm good. But as

714
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 3: I've come to see many things, and the horror and

715
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 3: the heartbreak that I seen people be in the name

716
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 3: of religion, the amount of hate I've seen in the

717
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 3: name of religion, I don't want to be a part

718
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 3: of that. I don't ever want to be a part

719
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 3: of that. Again, I'm very regretful of the mission work

720
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: that I did that wasn't about actually helping, like you know,

721
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,839
Speaker 3: working with underprivileged people and trying to actually do some

722
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 3: good things with children who are neglected and abuse like.

723
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 3: Outside of that, I'm really regretful of my work. When

724
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 3: I'm sitting here telling you, Jesus is the you know,

725
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 3: do these things become more white? Essentially to be saved

726
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 3: and that was what was happening, and I regret that fully.

727
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: I regret it in every way. I don't regret the

728
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 3: relationships I'm a made and some of the great people

729
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: that I've made, and if it helps them feel better

730
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 3: like people, I definitely had worked with people who had

731
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 3: eating disorders, suicidal ideation, a lot of bad problems at

732
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:53,879
Speaker 3: home that really clung to religion and I get that.

733
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 3: I get that, and they will say that they feels

734
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 3: like they saved them. I get that the same way

735
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: when I was suicidal at a teenage, having to look

736
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 3: into saying showing that I had to be grateful it

737
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: saved me being having low self esteem and giving faith

738
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 3: in UH and gratefulness was a way that saved me.

739
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 3: I truly believe that. Do I believe that religion in itself,

740
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 3: like the idea of the Holy Spirit. Maybe that's not

741
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 3: necessarily m H. So that's a whole different conversation. But

742
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 3: there are so many things where again I've had just

743
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: many scars and trauma through religion as well. That's kind

744
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 3: of like I could have done with that.

745
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,439
Speaker 1: That I think a lot of people could have.

746
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 2: I mean, this whole series kind of proves that, and yeah,

747
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 2: that's definitely a personal matter, but so much of it

748
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: happens when you're young.

749
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: I still am.

750
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: Like when I was kind of being bratty about it

751
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 2: in seventh grade and I stopped believing. I said, would

752
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 2: you believe this if you're parents told you that.

753
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: I was really annoying? I was a really annoying kid.

754
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't admit it.

755
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: But I mean, I know we talked about it before,

756
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 2: but it's just such a it's a very intense thing

757
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 2: to teach child where you think you're going to go

758
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: to hell, and it has so much like sexist like

759
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: to be young and to be like, oh, well, women

760
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 2: ruined everything.

761
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, I guess I'll deal with that. And

762
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: I like, it's just a lot. It's a lot. It is.

763
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 3: Well, we talked about that in a previous episode, or

764
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 3: we talked about is this a form of child abuse?

765
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 3: Is this a form of child trauma that children carry

766
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 3: for the rest of their lives. And it's true that's

767
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 3: become a thing that was rooted in how our children

768
00:43:55,600 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 3: were disciplined was through fear and guilt. It very much

769
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 3: passes along with a religious ideal of that as well, yeah,

770
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: and I think when it comes to what is happening

771
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 3: in the world and in this country as a whole,

772
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 3: it's unnerving right now. Maybe it's because I'm an adult

773
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: and I'm paying attention more, I don't know, but it

774
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 3: feels like it's causing more unraveling. And if I were

775
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 3: to believe anything, I'm like, yeah, this could be the

776
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: beginning of apocalypse in that Biblically we see a false God,

777
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 3: and this seems like this could be it, and is

778
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 3: coming from the right wing side.

779
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: It's very frightening. And I will also say as we

780
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: wrap up this series that there have been plenty of

781
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 2: articles that we've talked about in here that I have

782
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: read because of now we're getting all these updates about it,

783
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 2: where people are trying to change things, that things are progressing.

784
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 2: My mom's chur just having this whole thing that is

785
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: fascinating for me to listen when she tells me about

786
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,880
Speaker 2: kind of protecting trans people and even entering like classes

787
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 2: about how the proper terminology and stuff.

788
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 1: So it's interesting like that.

789
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 2: I feel like there's a huge backlash, but there is

790
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: also people who are really like, no, that's not what

791
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 2: it is.

792
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: We should be more welcoming. That's what it's about.

793
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I hope we've done as many like sad

794
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 3: or sarcastic comments or jokes as we might make. We

795
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 3: know that there are plenty of people who are not

796
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 3: like that, and I hope we've highlighted several good ones.

797
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 3: And I hope y'all have paid attention to that too,

798
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,120
Speaker 3: because we do. We think like the last person who

799
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 3: wrote about the dangers of Christian nationalism to christianities, I'm like, huh,

800
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 3: we could be friends because I love that he was

801
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,479
Speaker 3: able to give this perspective and really really talk about

802
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 3: the minute details of it all. And I didn't even

803
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 3: put any of the biblical versus I heap used for

804
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 3: reference because again, we're not going to do that necessarily

805
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 3: for these contexts, because I didn't have time to research that. Again,

806
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 3: we don't want to take things up of context for

807
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: anything but seeing those and there was plenty of articles

808
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 3: like I said, where it talks about we needed telling

809
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 3: other Christians to be vigilant about why this is false

810
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 3: narratives and you need to be careful of what you're

811
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 3: reading and what you're hearing. Trying to teach their own

812
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 3: so lots of great stuff out there. Again, we took

813
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 3: it out of Christianity dot Com, which we took a

814
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 3: few other articles out which we were like that. We

815
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 3: were opposed to this as well. So there's definitely the

816
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 3: good and bad and back and forth. And I think

817
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 3: that's a great thing to see and I was glad

818
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: to see it. I really hate that my algorithm is

819
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 3: so messed up and I wanted to be gone.

820
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: That's why the mini series is ending everyone.

821
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 3: That's true.

822
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 1: I just no, You've done a great job, Samantha.

823
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 2: Samantha really led the way on these, So thank you

824
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 2: for all the work that you did and for your.

825
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 1: Algorithm getting borked. We appreciate it.

826
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 3: Sorry for the delays because I really didn't want to.

827
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,439
Speaker 3: It makes me sad, sor.

828
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: Right, I understand, I understand.

829
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: We here we are, though we might we might post

830
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 2: we haven't done this in a while, but we might

831
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 2: post a playlist of all episodes, since I think we

832
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 2: started in March. We started a while. Don't judge me,

833
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 2: there's no judgment. Just like, if you want to go

834
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 2: back and hear the whole thing, we might do that,

835
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 2: so keep an eye out for that. But yes, In

836
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: the meantime, we have heard from a lot of you

837
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: who have thoughts about this, so keep those thoughts coming.

838
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 2: You can email us at Stephanie and Mom's Stuff at

839
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 2: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at

840
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 2: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never

841
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 2: Told You and TikTok same name. We have a tea

842
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 2: public store and a book you can get stuff you

843
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: should read books dot com.

844
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: My mom read it, so that's that. She sent me

845
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,359
Speaker 1: a kind message and I cried.

846
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 3: And I have you had to talk about this, but she's.

847
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: Sent me a very nice message.

848
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 2: And thanks as always your super producer Christina or executive

849
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,880
Speaker 2: producer Maya and her contributor Joey Thanky. Thanks to you

850
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:13,439
Speaker 2: for listening. Stefan Never Told You the production of iHeart Radio.

851
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check

852
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 2: out the heart Radio app Apple podcast, where you listen

853
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.