1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,040 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Last week I talked about men putting off parenthood and 3 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: delaying having real relationships, but of course it's not just 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: men who do this. In twenty twenty two, the average 5 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: age for an American woman having her first child hit 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: thirty for the first time. In the never ending mommy 7 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: wars of our time, one of the ongoing battles is 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: the ideal age of motherhood. The shots are usually lobbed 9 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: at older moms. They put off having babies because they 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: wanted to focus on their careers. Goes this assumption, and 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 1: now they're quote granny moms who lack the energy to 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: deal with children. I recently reread a Molly Finn piece 13 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:48,559 Speaker 1: in The Wall Street Journal from a few years ago 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: that fired in the other direction. She argued that being 15 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: an older mother is better than being a younger mother, 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: despite the fact that she is indeed sometimes mistaken for 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,320 Speaker 1: the child's grand tongue in cheek. Thinn called older or 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: geriatric mothers Jerry's and says they're better than younger mothers 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: because they're tanned, rested, and ready for motherhood in a 20 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: way younger mothers just aren't, she writes. Quote what about 21 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: the stamina needed to keep up with a child, you ask, 22 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: But we Jerries have the advantage of not being regularly 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: hungover from youthful self indulgence. We have only three apps 24 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: on our iPhones, and we waited a long time for children. 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: We're energized, focused, and almost always happy to see our kids. Also, 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: we have watched younger folks make mistakes and learn how 27 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: to conserve energy. 28 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 2: End quote. 29 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: I have no quarrel with people who have kids later 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: in life. I myself am what used to be considered 31 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: an older mother, though, of course, as the average age 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: of motherhood moves ever upward, my ages of thirty two, 33 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: thirty five, and thirty eight at the time of the 34 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: births of my children don't seem quite so ancient. But 35 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: if there was a way to redo everything, my idea 36 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: would have been to have children much earlier. My husband 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: and I knew each other for a decade before we 38 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: started dating, and that's like a lot of lost and 39 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: wasted time. I used to say he was the Jerry 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: to my Elaine, really minus the romantic beginning. Because Jerry 41 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: and Elaine dated first, we were just friends. You know, 42 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: together all the time, platonically for a long long time. 43 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: In my rewrite of this history, we would have gotten 44 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: together in our twenties and our kids would be heading 45 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: to college right now. Older parenthood is hard, even as 46 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: Finn notes, you know fewer hangovers. Maybe older parenthood takes 47 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: its toll in so many ways. It's harder to lose 48 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: the baby weight. You don't look a little tired when 49 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: you don't get enough sleep, you look like the crypt keeper. 50 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: It's harder to chase around babies you know, who are 51 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: intent on plunging headfirst into everything. And you know the 52 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: lament from a young person putting off parenthood who says, 53 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: I just want to live my life first, explore the world, 54 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: do things. The shocking truth that's unknown to twenty somethings, 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: including myself at that age, is that there really is 56 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: no time when you don't want to live your life. 57 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm in my forties and I still want to do 58 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: all those things that people consider living their lives. I 59 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: want to go out to dinner, meet new people, travel. 60 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 1: My husband and I have been incredibly lucky that our 61 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 1: children have involved grandparents. We have an amazing situation that 62 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: we get to do all of that. But the older 63 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: you are when you have kids, the older your parents are, 64 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: and the less ability they will have to help. There's 65 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: this idea that there comes a point in your life 66 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: when everything can pause for a bit, as you take 67 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: time off to have a baby, secure in your finances 68 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: and the knowledge that your career will pick right up 69 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: where left off. And it doesn't really work like that 70 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: for women or for men. At the start of your career, 71 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: you're new and mostly expendable. As you climb your career ladder, 72 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: you take on more responsibilities, making it harder all the 73 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: time to step away. And that's the thing about having kids. 74 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: There's no right or wrong time to have them. Are 75 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: you ready for a baby? No, No one actually is. 76 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,760 Speaker 1: And the truth is you're still allowed to do, you know, 77 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: the things that we call bucket list, but now we 78 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: refer to bucket list even not kicking the bucket, but 79 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: having a baby. You're still allowed to go bungee jumping, 80 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: or procrastinate on writing that novel you swear you're going 81 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: to write after the babies arrive. There's no rule that 82 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 1: says you have to own your own home or have 83 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: made partner at your firm and You can have all 84 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: the money and still be a terrible parent, or have 85 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: very little of it and win at parenthood daily. Aim 86 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: for the parenthood winning, and let the rest fall into place. 87 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: The other problem with putting off parenthood, of course, is 88 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: that baby making is more art than science. In general, 89 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: a lot has to go right for a baby to 90 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: be produced. You have to meet the right person, you 91 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: have to be fertile, they have to be fertile, and 92 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: even then, and there's no guarantee everything will work as 93 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,479 Speaker 1: it should. So much of life is luck, and meeting 94 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 1: the right person is a huge part of that. Putting 95 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: off kids because you haven't met the right person makes sense. 96 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 1: Putting off kids because being an older parent is better 97 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: is foolishness. Coming up next, an interview with Miranda Divine. 98 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: Join us after the break. Hi, and welcome back to 99 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My guest today is 100 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: Miranda Divine, columnist at the New York Post and author 101 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: of the best selling book Laptop from Hell. Thank you 102 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: so much for coming on, Miranda. 103 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 2: Great to be with you, Carol. 104 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: So I have an admission to make to you, and 105 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: I remember the very first time I read you, I 106 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: just looked it up. It was twenty nineteen. It was 107 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: your third piece at the Post, and you wrote about 108 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 1: how marijuana was a really big deal and that it 109 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: came with mental health risks for some people, and that 110 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: it was becoming a pro problem in New York. And 111 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: I remember reading it and being like, I disagree with 112 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: all of this. This is crazy. Who is this person? 113 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: I remember being like, this is so square. And of 114 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: course I've come around to most of what you've most 115 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: of what you wrote there. So how does it feel? 116 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: Do you get that a lot? Like people are saying 117 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: you're right? 118 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: That's so interesting? Yeah, Look, I don't know. 119 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 3: Sometimes I guess people don't really like to admit that, 120 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 3: and you know, I'm. 121 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 2: Often wrong myself. 122 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 3: But the drugs thing is something that I've been writing 123 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 3: about for, you know, more than twenty years. I was 124 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 3: a police reporter early on, and I just saw the 125 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 3: detrimental effect that drugs had, particularly on people at the 126 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 3: bottom of the ladder, and you know, kids who grew 127 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 3: up with addicted parents. And you know, if there was 128 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 3: one thing I could do to wave a magic wand 129 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 3: to cure a lot of the ills that plague Western societies, 130 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 3: it would be to just ban get rid of illicit 131 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 3: drug use. And I think it's you know, I mean 132 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 3: when I was young, I was just as susceptible to 133 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 3: the sort of pop culture ideas about legal drugs. You know, 134 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: I joined some stupid, you know, marijuana legalization party when 135 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 3: I was at university. 136 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: You know, it was cool. But when you actually look. 137 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: At the scientific studies that have been done, particularly on marijuana, 138 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 3: which you're seen as such a particularly in America, seen 139 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 3: as such a benign drug, and you see that the 140 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 3: very large risks of psychosis. You know, once your brain 141 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 3: has become psychotic, has had a psychotic episode, it's more 142 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 3: prone to them for the rest of your life, and 143 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: that begins the descent into insanity. And you see it 144 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 3: all around you in the streets of New York and 145 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 3: other big American cities, with homeless people who are homeless 146 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 3: because they're mentally ill. 147 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think you also you predicted in that piece 148 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: what ended up happening in New York was that the 149 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: full legalization has made it so the whole entire city 150 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: smells like weed now. And you know, people say, oh, 151 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: it was always like that, No, it wasn't. I grew 152 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: up in New York. 153 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 2: No, it was not. 154 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: You know, people used to be covert about smoking. Now 155 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: it's out in the open. I think also, New York 156 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: is the only city where you're allowed to do that. 157 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: All the other kind of hippie cities who legalized it, 158 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: which legalized it, didn't legalize it to smoke in the 159 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: street anywhere you wanted. And I think New York is 160 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: the only place that's okay. So I think that piece 161 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: was really I went back and I read it, and 162 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: it's really interesting. You know, how much I've learned in 163 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: just a few years, but how right you were about 164 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: where New York was heading with that. 165 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: That's interesting that you say that. I mean, why did 166 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 2: you change your mind? 167 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 3: Was it just because you saw that hails and disorder 168 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 3: in New York over the years. 169 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: Yes, I think I had that impression, like you said, 170 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: where look, I you know, I used to be a pothead. 171 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: I you know, was very much into the idea that 172 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: if we just legalized that everybody would be able to 173 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: use it, you know, kind of the way that we 174 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: have a drink and it wouldn't be just a problem. 175 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: And I think that what we've seen, and you're right 176 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: about the psychosis stuff too. I think that there's a 177 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 1: lot of research that has come out in the last 178 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: few years that does make the link between serious marijuana 179 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: use and psychosis and people who maybe were susceptible to 180 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,880 Speaker 1: it already. But I just think New York I've seen 181 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: such a downward spiral. And one of the things is, 182 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, I remember when we still lived in Brooklyn 183 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: walking by somebody smoking a joint in park Slope, like, 184 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, eight thirty am as I'm taking my kids 185 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: to school, and if we saw somebody, you know, having 186 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: a drink on the corner at eight thirty, we would 187 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: register that that's a problem. But because it's weed, it's 188 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:04,479 Speaker 1: sort of like, okay. 189 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 3: It's really odd in America, I think it's a hangover 190 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 3: from Prohibition. I went to university at Northwestern in Chicago, 191 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 3: actually in Evanston, a little bit north of the city, 192 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 3: and that was the home of the Christian Women's Temperance League, 193 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 3: and really, you know, one of the early sources of prohibition, 194 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 3: I think. And it's still a dry town. I mean, 195 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: it's a university town, but it's a dry town. You 196 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 3: couldn't get a drink. That was very hard for me 197 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 3: to wrap my head around that coming from Australia to 198 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 3: Chicago and realizing that, you know, we had to go 199 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 3: a long way to get a drink. But there's still 200 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 3: this attitude, I mean, which is good I think. I know, 201 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 3: in Australia and Britain, binge drinking, especially among young men, 202 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 3: is a real problem and causes a lot of violence 203 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 3: and mayhem, and so it's kind of a good thing 204 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: that people don't get in America with drinking so much. 205 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: I mean, you can go to a Broadway show and 206 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 3: they will give you a glass of wine which is 207 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 3: like as big as a bucket, and you can have 208 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 3: as many as you like, and people are not brawling 209 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,559 Speaker 3: in the aisles at intermission, which would happen if you 210 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 3: had a lot of hard drinking cultures. And so I 211 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 3: mean that's kind of a good thing, but I think 212 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 3: it's gone way over the top. I mean, the fact 213 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: that the drinking age is twenty one for young people. 214 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: I know from my own kids who came to America 215 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: on various sporting excursions when they were at school, that 216 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 3: you know what that meant was that rather than underage drinking, 217 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 3: which occurs in Australia and England and places which is 218 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 3: really I think, fine, it's just experimental drinking with a 219 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 3: legal substance in America because it's harder to get a 220 00:11:55,640 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 3: drink kids, So I smoking marijuana at school, and that's 221 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 3: that's a much more problematic issue because you know, alcohol 222 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 3: is illegal, and therefore you haven't broken that kind of wall. 223 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 3: A child hasn't broken that wall. That's well, I'm taking 224 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 3: an illegal substance. What's the difference if I take a 225 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 3: different one, like you know, okay or heroin or you know, 226 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: meth or whatever. And I know that. You know, for 227 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 3: so many years we've been told about the reefer madness. 228 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 3: Don't say no drugs, Nancy Pelosi, you know, craziness and yeah, 229 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 3: sorry Nancy, the. 230 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 2: Opposite, yeah, Nancy Reagan. And you know, so it's really 231 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:41,599 Speaker 2: uncool to be anti drugs, especially. 232 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: If you're from that generation that grew up with chitch 233 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 3: and chong and a lot of you know, the cool 234 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 3: or at least in the aftermath of that cool nineteen 235 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 3: sixties nineteen seventies psychedelic era where drugs, you know, that 236 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 3: was that was sort of the thing that our elders 237 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 3: were doing. And so by the time the next generation 238 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 3: came of age. It was completely normal and it was 239 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 3: part you know, hooked into music and celebrity and anything 240 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 3: you wanted to do. And so we've had I guess 241 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 3: forty years of its normalization of drug use and coolification 242 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 3: of it, and and I think it's been really detrimental 243 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 3: to mental health and and you know, I mean just 244 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 3: to the culture. 245 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 2: You know, po pot. 246 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 3: I know from my own misspent youth, it just SAPs 247 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,559 Speaker 3: you of energy and enterprise. It's the most loser drug 248 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 3: you could ever think of, and it has the cash 249 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 3: day as being just so safe, zen and hip and safe, 250 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 3: and so you know, I don't know. I just think 251 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 3: alcohol is bad. It has problems, but it's been with 252 00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 3: us for a long time. Humans are going to need 253 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 3: some sort of mind altering drug. We chose long ago 254 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 3: that it be alcohol, and it's relatively safe. And I 255 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 3: think we'd be better off just focusing on having fun 256 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 3: with the one legal drug rather than trying to supplement 257 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 3: it with all sorts of other crazy drugs, because there'll 258 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 3: always be something new. And we now see fentanal the 259 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 3: ultimate expression of optimizing illegal drugs, and it's just you know, 260 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 3: it's lethal. 261 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 2: Right. 262 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: So I mentioned that that piece was from twenty nineteen. 263 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: I think that's around when you moved from Australia to 264 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: New York, Is that right? 265 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: Yep, that's right, twenty nineteen. 266 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: So we talk a lot on this show about people 267 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: moving because you know, as you know, there's been this 268 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: migration in America over the COVID years, but you made 269 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: an international move and you did it before COVID. So 270 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: how's that been for you? 271 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: It's been great and weird because of COVID, I guess. 272 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 3: And you know, I was actually born in Jamaica, Queens, 273 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 3: so really kind of a native born in New York 274 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 3: or my accent doesn't doesn't tell you that. 275 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: And my parents were journalist. 276 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 3: My father was a foreign correspondent in New York, and 277 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 3: so you know, I was born here. 278 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 2: We lived, you know, in. 279 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 3: London, and we lived in Tokyo for six years, and 280 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 3: I went to an American school. I had this very American, 281 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 3: strangely American upbringing, which was hyper American suburban upbringing in 282 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 3: Tokyo because I went to an international school. All my 283 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 3: friends were American parents were diplomats or my best friend 284 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 3: lived on the Pan American compound, and that was like 285 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 3: the Truman Show. It was behind It was a gated 286 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 3: community with these manicured lawns and culder sacks and little 287 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 3: American bungalows, and you know, we used to you know, 288 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 3: I read the Bobbsey Twins and all sorts of sort 289 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: of old American classics, children's classics. 290 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 2: I didn't know that this. 291 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 3: Was bizarre and the real America had changed, but we 292 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: were living in this sort of capsule of Americana as 293 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: sort of interpreted through Tokyo in the nineteen sixties and seventies. 294 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 2: And then my. 295 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 3: Parents decided that the family needed to sort of live 296 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 3: a normal lifestyle, not next pat lifestyle. So they went 297 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 3: back to my mother's home country, which was Australia, and 298 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 3: that was a huge culture shock for us kids, my 299 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 3: sisters and I. 300 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 4: How old were you, I was ten eleven, and you know, 301 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 4: I just thought of myself as an American kid and here, 302 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 4: you know, speaking Japanese, living this sort of strange international lifestyle. 303 00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 4: And then we were in the sort of the sub 304 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 4: verbs of Perth, which is a real outpost in western 305 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 4: Australia and among the sand dunes, and. 306 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 3: So that was that was quite a culture shock. I 307 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 3: remember my mother ushering my sister and I, who were 308 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 3: both very indoor kids living in Tokyo, ushering us out 309 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 3: for a picnic, which we just didn't want to do, 310 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 3: but we immediately encountered all these horrible creatures and came 311 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 3: running back screaming to my mother saying there were dinosaurs 312 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 3: and blue tongues, and you know, there were just lizards 313 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 3: and sort of fauna and flora that we didn't enjoy. 314 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 3: But looking being kids, we adapted. I almost overnight changed 315 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 3: my accent. I remember practicing in bed at night how 316 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 3: to save and not bath, and so transformed overnight and 317 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 3: fit in like a good Aussie. 318 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 2: And my mother, you know, born in a. 319 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: Farm in western Australia, very Australian, she was horrorfied by 320 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 3: my accent. She said, Darling, you sound like an Oka, 321 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 3: which is like a redneck. 322 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 2: And I thought, I've done it. I've achieved my goal. 323 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, do you feel I mean, do you 324 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: think you'd go back to Australia? 325 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean our grown up children are there, 326 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 3: and you know we left only for eighteen months. I 327 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 3: had I lived off. 328 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 2: And on in America a lot. 329 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 3: I'd gone to university, as I said, in Northwestern and 330 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 3: worked in Boston, worked in Chicago, I worked in New York. 331 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 3: But then when I went back to Australia, I married 332 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,119 Speaker 3: a New Zealander actually, but he was living in Australia. 333 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 3: And so my married life has been in Australia, and 334 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 3: our kids are very rooted in that country, and you know, 335 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 3: we have a house and a dog and the whole thing. 336 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 3: And I only came to the New York Post for 337 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 3: eighteen months to cover the twenty twenty election because it's 338 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 3: sort of an adventure, because our kids had gone off 339 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 3: to university, and because my former editor in Australia, a 340 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: fantastic journalist called Cole Allen, was the editor in chief 341 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 3: of the New York Post, and he asked me to 342 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: come over, and you know, I thought it would be 343 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 3: fun to cover this momentous election. And so we arrived 344 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,400 Speaker 3: sort of midway through twenty nineteen and had about six 345 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 3: normal months in New York, had its best before Boom 346 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 3: the pandemic hit and everything the world changed. 347 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 348 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. Do you think of 349 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: yourself as a New Yorker? 350 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 2: Now? 351 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: Are you like fully adapted or somewhat. And again, you 352 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: were born there, so maybe you've been New Yorker all along. 353 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've sort of thought of myself a 354 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 3: little bit as a New Yorker all my life, only 355 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: because my father was just such a He grew up 356 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 3: in New Zealand, but he was just such a fan 357 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 3: of America and used to read Jon O'Hara when he 358 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 3: was young. And we're so proud to have a daughter 359 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 3: who was an American and a New Yorker, and so 360 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 3: my parents used to sort of tease me about it 361 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 3: and sort of boost it. So I always had a 362 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 3: great affinity for American and for New York. But I 363 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: guess now i'm here, I just I don't feel like that. 364 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 3: I mean, I feel very much, you know, a foreigner, 365 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 3: I guess. But I mean I've felt a foreigner wherever 366 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 3: I lived, because I was in a way. And so 367 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 3: and that's what happens to a lot of kids that 368 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 3: grow up, you know, among a lot of different cultures, 369 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 3: is that there are chameleons and can fit in anywhere, 370 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 3: but also don't really fit in anywhere. 371 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 2: So I guess that's the very definition of a globalist. 372 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: What the Trump people won't tell anyone. 373 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 2: That's right. 374 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: Well, So a question I ask all of my guests, 375 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: and I think your uniquely positioned to answer it, is 376 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: what do you think is our largest cultural or societal 377 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: problem in America? And is it solvable? I feel like 378 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: you have a unique view. 379 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 2: You know. 380 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,239 Speaker 3: I think if you live in America and you know, 381 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: you sort of just used you like a frog in 382 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 3: boiling water, you haven't really noticed what's been going on. 383 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 2: But there's a. 384 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:44,719 Speaker 3: Really peculiar leniency about illegal drug use in this country. 385 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 2: And you can see it just legally. 386 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 3: So many states are now legalizing pot or legalizing other drugs, 387 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 3: and it just has become so normalized. And you know, 388 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 3: I mean, this is the country that carries on about 389 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 3: the evils of having two alcoholic drinks or smoking a 390 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: cigarette or vaping, and yet the really harmful substances that 391 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 3: people are ingesting as a matter of course aren't even mentioned. 392 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 3: And and and it's it's odd. I mean, I think 393 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 3: it really is like a multi decade propaganda mission by 394 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 3: a global group of people who for some reason are 395 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 3: into drug liberalization. And this is you know, the World 396 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 3: Health Organization has been doing it there's there's been this 397 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 3: push in. 398 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 2: The medical, you know field, to sort of equate alcohol 399 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 2: with other drugs. 400 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 3: They've callt alcohol and other drugs, even though one is 401 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 3: a tried and trusted through the centuries legal drug and 402 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 3: the other are illegal and we don't know exactly how 403 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 3: they work on the brain. And the addiction is shoes 404 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 3: with them, and and. 405 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:03,439 Speaker 2: So and and and. 406 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 3: Americans also have this peculiar relationship with pharmaceuticals, you know, 407 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 3: I mean, you watch television, They're a ceremony. Nowhere else 408 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 3: in the world have I ever seen so many drug ads, 409 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 3: and you know that they're just people prancing through meadows 410 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 3: with daffodils and funghine and you know, some awful sounding 411 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 3: drug is going to transform their life, take away their pain, 412 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 3: make them have happy families. 413 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 2: You know, Americans pop a pill for everything. You know. 414 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: If they're constipated, instead of changing their diet and eating healthily, 415 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 3: they take a constipation pill. You know, if they're fat, 416 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 3: instead of not eating, they take a pill. If they're sad, 417 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 3: they take a pill. Like life's normal realities. 418 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 2: That you you know that that. 419 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 3: People through the eons have dealt with by changing their 420 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 3: behavior or changing their environment or getting rid of toxic people. 421 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 3: The American culture is to pop a pill, and so 422 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 3: I think that's hand in glove with this illicit drug culture. 423 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 3: And I think it again, is just symptomatic of a 424 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 3: spiritual absence, which is odd because I think America is 425 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 3: the most religious country I've lived in it, certainly in 426 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: the West, and you know, people are very overt about 427 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 3: their religiosity, and almost to a fanatical extent in some quarters. 428 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 3: You know, I admire the religious faith that Americans are 429 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 3: happy to exhibit. I like the fact that their churches 430 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: and their synagogues in so many places are overflowing, unlike 431 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: say in Europe. But by the same token, I think, 432 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 3: you know, for instance, the sort of religious fervor around 433 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 3: Donald Trump just seems to me insane. There really are 434 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 3: people who think that he's the second coming of Jesus 435 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 3: Christ and that Joe Biden is Satan. Now, I like 436 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, and I don't like Joe Biden. I think 437 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 3: Donald Trump was a good president and Joe Biden is 438 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: a complete disaster. But I don't I don't see Joe 439 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 3: Biden as Satan, and I don't see Donald Trump as God. 440 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 2: And yet some. 441 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 3: People do see that, and I think it it sort 442 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 3: of unpicks their brain because they're not making rational decisions 443 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 3: and they're sort of allowing fate to take over because 444 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 3: they think that there's this existential battle. And again, you know, 445 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 3: that's that's sort of the opposite of what I'm saying. 446 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 3: And I think that there's such a schizophrenic attitude in 447 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 3: America towards you know, religion, spirituality. 448 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 2: You've got the. 449 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 3: Real godless crew who are looking for anything to fill 450 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 3: that spiritual gap. 451 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,880 Speaker 2: And then you have people at the other. 452 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 3: Extreme who have just you know, allowed their belief in 453 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 3: in in all their religious beliefs to take over their 454 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 3: kind of rational selves. 455 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: Interesting. 456 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: It's funny that if you equate that to the drug thing, 457 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 1: which I get. You know, it's people are looking for something, right, 458 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: They're looking for something to make them feel better or 459 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: to believe in. But you're right, it takes a lot 460 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: more work to you know, make the changes that will 461 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: make you feel better instead of like popping a pill 462 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: or believing in a politician or you know the rest 463 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: of that. Do you feel like you live a public life, 464 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: like are you recognized a lot? 465 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 3: I try not to, and I guess you know, the 466 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 3: great thing about New York is that there are so 467 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: many people here, and you know, everyone's fairly anonymous. And 468 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 3: there's a there's a pub that a lot of New 469 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 3: York Post people go to that we love, Beach Cafe, 470 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 3: and that's about the only place that I will be recognized. 471 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 3: And I like it that way, you know. I I've 472 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 3: always been thought of myself as a writer. I'm now 473 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 3: I'm on Fox a lot as a contributor. And you 474 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 3: know that that changes things because your face and your 475 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 3: personality and people think they know you and and it 476 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,159 Speaker 3: gives you a lot more I guess publicity and a 477 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 3: higher profile, which every journalist or every media but we're 478 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 3: not journalists anymore. 479 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 2: We're media. People's close to crave. I don't crave that 480 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,719 Speaker 2: at all. I don't like it. 481 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 3: And I think it also if you're a writer, if 482 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 3: you're a journalist, you meant to be an observer and 483 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 3: you're meant to be fly on the wall. And I 484 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 3: think that's what I'm best at, or have been in 485 00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 3: the past anyway. And I think when you become the story, 486 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 3: you lose that and you lose your ability to write 487 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 3: and to sort of reflect the reality that you see 488 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 3: around you. 489 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you had this best selling book, Laptop from Hell. 490 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: You obviously have a very exciting and interesting and accomplished career. 491 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you've mete it? 492 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 3: You know, my instinct is to say, oh, gosh, no, 493 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,959 Speaker 3: you know, I would never be so presumptuous just to 494 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 3: say that, But to be honest, I have to say that, 495 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 3: you know, so many items on my bucket list so 496 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: far I've achieved, and one was to write a book, 497 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 3: and to have it be a best seller is just fantastic, 498 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 3: And especially on a topic I think so important was suppressed, 499 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 3: censored before the twenty twenty election. And I think you 500 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 3: know that the story about Hunter Biden's laptop, but mainly 501 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 3: what it told us about Joe Biden and his corruption, 502 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 3: I think was a story that should have been known 503 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 3: by the American voter. And so it was a big 504 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 3: thrill to be able to write that and and bring 505 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 3: it to so many people, and so that and then look, 506 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 3: I mean, the most important thing for me, and I 507 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 3: think for all of us is family. 508 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 2: And my kids. 509 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 3: Are now adults, you know, young adults, and they're fantastic. 510 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 3: We just spent Christmas with them and they're just the 511 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: most wonderful human beings. And I think I've made it 512 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 3: because as a mother, because my kids are sort of 513 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 3: there there. I mean, if I died tomorrow, I know 514 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 3: they would be fine. 515 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 2: I don't want to. I want to. I want to 516 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 2: be there for grandkids and marriages and all. 517 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 3: The wonderful things that come with adult children. But but 518 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 3: I think in terms of making it, you know, I 519 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: have a happy marriage and. 520 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 2: A great family, So that's that's I think it's well 521 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 2: about Yeah, yeah, exactly. 522 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: Well, I've loved having you on Miranda and here with 523 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 1: your best tip for my listeners on how they can 524 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: improve their lives. 525 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 2: Thanks Carol. Look, I think probably of all the wisdom 526 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 2: that I've. 527 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 3: Accumulated in my now quite long life, I'd say the 528 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 3: only regrets I've ever had have been saying no to 529 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: opportunities because I thought, well, I'm too busy at the moment. 530 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 3: You know, I've got kids, I need to concentrate on them, 531 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 3: et cetera. I think if you just say yes, things 532 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 3: will work out. You'll be able to manage whatever burdens 533 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 3: or time constraints you have. And when you say yes 534 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 3: to one thing, other doors open. There are so many 535 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 3: opportunities out there, so that's my advice. Always say yes 536 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 3: to an opportunity. Don't put it off. It won't come 537 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 3: back again. You always think, yea, it will come back. 538 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 3: It never does. You lose it. Other opportunities will come up. 539 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 3: It's not the end of the world, but I think 540 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 3: just always say yes, put your hand up. 541 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 2: Life's for living. 542 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. That was really great Miranda Devine. 543 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: Her book is Laptop from Hell. Check it out. You 544 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: are fantastic. Thank you so much. 545 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Carol. Great to be with you. 546 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us on the Carol Markowitz Show. 547 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.