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Speaker 1: I am very pleased today to be joined by my
Speaker 1: very good friend Maria Shriver, who is an exceptional person
Speaker 1: in more ways than one. I always tell people when
Speaker 1: they ask me, who are the most exceptional people you've
Speaker 1: met in your career? Maria is always at the top
Speaker 1: of my list, one of the I always say ten
Speaker 1: smartest people, hands down. I've ever met a brilliant person,
Speaker 1: kind person, and someone who has a very optimistic and
Speaker 1: unique perspective I think in a very troubled time. And
Speaker 1: your Sunday paper, which is read by me and hundreds
Speaker 1: of thousands each Sunday, you had a column which really
Speaker 1: struck me because you use the phrase that I use
Speaker 1: a lot, and I'm very aware of people using around
Speaker 1: me all the time, and it was not a phrase
Speaker 1: that I have any consciousness really of living with, thinking
Speaker 1: about even five years ago or ten years ago, and
Speaker 1: it's not colloquial to my childhood, to my region, and
Speaker 1: the phrases it's a lot. And the notion of your
Speaker 1: piece is that there are all over America people dealing
Speaker 1: with a multitude of difficult issues and that there's this
Speaker 1: consensus in so many people around it's a lot. What
Speaker 1: does that mean? It's a lot?
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, before I answer that, Steve, let me just
Speaker 2: say first, I'm happy to be here, but I want
Speaker 2: to know who the other nine people are on the
Speaker 2: ten that you said. I'm one of the ten smartest people.
Speaker 2: So who are the other time I want, I.
Speaker 1: Will say, I will, I will tell you the people
Speaker 1: that I always say that just immediately as I as
Speaker 1: I flesh this out, because you know, I've met I've
Speaker 1: met a lot of people in my in my career,
Speaker 1: in life. You are you are, hands down on that list.
Speaker 1: I put the Chief Justice John roberts Is immediately, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of comes to mind on that on that list,
Speaker 1: and there are a handful of other people. But I'm
Speaker 1: not I'm not on the list, Maria, but I'm smart
Speaker 1: enough not to try to name that list of people,
Speaker 1: particularly in front of one of the ten people.
Speaker 2: Okay, So do you are there any qualities they get
Speaker 2: you on the list and get you off the list.
Speaker 1: Are there anything I do say I do say all
Speaker 1: the time, is that you have a way of seeing
Speaker 1: the world that is unique, that is broad and visionary.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I've worked with all the
Speaker 1: best political consultants, certainly in the Republican Party. I was
Speaker 1: involved in democratic politics per se through the Lincoln Project.
Speaker 1: I know all the democratic strategists. I you know, ran
Speaker 1: a political campaign with you, and it would not have
Speaker 1: won without you. And you're a brilliant political strategist, one
Speaker 1: of the very finest, you know, I've ever known. But
Speaker 1: more broadly than that, I think in the culture, what
Speaker 1: you appreciate is that politics is downrange, down river from
Speaker 1: our culture, and that we talk about politics as if
Speaker 1: it's on an island and isolated apart from or the headwaters.
Speaker 1: And it's not. And it's such an obvious and intuitive thing.
Speaker 1: But most people are completely divorced from this. You're not. Now,
Speaker 1: I've always thought that that makes you really unique in
Speaker 1: the constellation of people that you sit around at table
Speaker 1: with and you have these discussions about what should the
Speaker 1: message be to a state of forty million people or
Speaker 1: to a nation of three hundred and thirty million people.
Speaker 1: Is the entire premise that there's common interest a fallacy,
Speaker 1: Is it an illusion? Is it a dellusion? And I
Speaker 1: think that the ability to find common interest through a
Speaker 1: set of values without anger, rancor or judgmentalism is an
Speaker 1: exceptional skill. And for example, when you were First Lady
Speaker 1: in California or your women's conferences, were these enormous events,
Speaker 1: overflowing and thousands of people wanting to go to these
Speaker 1: and it was because you were able to inspire. And
Speaker 1: it's a rare quality to see any person you know
Speaker 1: do that, but to see a friend do it up close,
Speaker 1: it's a real part of so that I have a
Speaker 1: lot of gratitude for in my life.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Steve. And well, as you well know, I
Speaker 2: grew up in a political family, and so I was
Speaker 2: always had my ear to the ground about politics, and
Speaker 2: then went into journalism and so covered politics from a
Speaker 2: different point of view. But I've always felt that there
Speaker 2: actually is a lot that brings us together that we
Speaker 2: do have in common. And I've spent a lot of
Speaker 2: time talking about the American family, about women in particular,
Speaker 2: women who work, women who provide, women who take care
Speaker 2: of aging parents, women who are parenteing, how does the
Speaker 2: work structure, how does government deal with that, how do
Speaker 2: workplaces deal with that? How do we talk about this
Speaker 2: whole part of the population in a different way than
Speaker 2: we'd been talking about it in the past. That's something
Speaker 2: that was very important to me as first Lady of California,
Speaker 2: because California has more women in it than any other state,
Speaker 2: and there's California Sirens, but more women business owners, more
Speaker 2: women who are providing partnering, and certainly as an Alzheimer's advocate,
Speaker 2: I've seen millions of people in the caregiving space that
Speaker 2: cuts across gender as well, and I see a lot
Speaker 2: of issues that I don't think a lot of political
Speaker 2: leaders are talking about. I don't see a lot of
Speaker 2: political leaders talking about the caregiving crisis in our country today.
Speaker 2: And I think that's something that brings people of all
Speaker 2: political parties together, all walks of life together, because everybody's
Speaker 2: dealing with how do we care for aging parents? How
Speaker 2: do we what are our character what is our character
Speaker 2: around that? What are our values around that? How do
Speaker 2: we raise up a generation that wants to care for
Speaker 2: aging parents? So I think there are a lot of
Speaker 2: things that we do have in common that where politics is,
Speaker 2: you know, not in the conversation, but as a means
Speaker 2: by how we can make the conversation better. So at
Speaker 2: my dinner table, there are people of different political persuasions
Speaker 2: who talk about gun reform, who talk about immigration, who
Speaker 2: talk about caregiving, who talk about child rearing, who talk
Speaker 2: about flexible work hours, who talk about wanting to learn
Speaker 2: how to converse in a calm, compassionate way, who talk
Speaker 2: about having a lot on their plate, but also wanting
Speaker 2: to be the kinds of people that bring about change
Speaker 2: in a positive way in our country. And I think
Speaker 2: I think people from what I've been able to kind
Speaker 2: of here in the zeitgeists, people want leaders that raise
Speaker 2: them up, that point to where we're going in an
Speaker 2: aspirational way, that use language that brings people together. That's realistic,
Speaker 2: but that's not about just attacking one another. But that's
Speaker 2: about finding things that we have in common. And I
Speaker 2: do believe we have so much more in common than
Speaker 2: we're led to believe.
Speaker 1: Why do you think they're such a polarization in the
Speaker 1: culture in so many incentives towards division as opposed to unity,
Speaker 1: when one is obviously so much better than the other.
Speaker 1: Right for the future of our children, our grandchildren. I
Speaker 1: was always struck by John Lewis. He said, you know,
Speaker 1: no matter what ship we arrived on in this country,
Speaker 1: how we got here, and he was the descendant of
Speaker 1: African slaves. We're all in the same boat. Now, how
Speaker 1: do you think about that?
Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of people don't feel we're
Speaker 2: in the same boat. They think like, well, what boat
Speaker 2: is that? And I'm not in the same boat as
Speaker 2: John Lewis, And I'm not in the same boat as
Speaker 2: Maria Schreiver or Steve Schmidt. And then I think when
Speaker 2: you kind of one thing I've learned through therapy is
Speaker 2: to ask people okay, well tell me more about why
Speaker 2: you feel like that, and then to keep going beneath
Speaker 2: the layer of the conversation. And that I find that
Speaker 2: when we get below all of that, people go, oh,
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that we actually kind of are in
Speaker 2: the same boat. But I think kind of backing up,
Speaker 2: how we got where we are is a long story.
Speaker 2: I think the media has played a role in that.
Speaker 2: I think politics has always been about the fight. It
Speaker 2: has been negative, it has been you know, ugly in
Speaker 2: many ways for a really long time. And I think
Speaker 2: that's what when people think about politics, they think about that.
Speaker 2: They think about people yelling at each other, attacking each other,
Speaker 2: negative ops about each other. They think about how to
Speaker 2: attack the other person, how to put them in the
Speaker 2: worst possible light. And I think we've got to change that.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, political strategists have to be a
Speaker 2: part of changing that. Media people have to be a
Speaker 2: part of changing that. I think social media has played
Speaker 2: a role in letting the negativity rise to the top.
Speaker 2: People talking to each other on social media in ways
Speaker 2: that you would never talk to a person at a
Speaker 2: dining room table. You'd be putting a time out. And
Speaker 2: I grew up at a table when people sat at
Speaker 2: the table with different political parties. My mother was a
Speaker 2: big pro lifer. She brought people to the table who
Speaker 2: worked in Republican politics. She was an avid Democrat. My
Speaker 2: dad was very religious. They had people from all different faiths,
Speaker 2: all different genders, all different skin colors at the table,
Speaker 2: and people were respectful the way they spoke to one another.
Speaker 2: There was never name calling. It was just unheard of
Speaker 2: to have the kind of dialogue that we see now
Speaker 2: on social media at the table or in the conversation.
Speaker 2: So I sound kind of old fashioned saying that people
Speaker 2: were better mannered or that they spoke in a different
Speaker 2: way to one another, And I think we can get
Speaker 2: back to that place. I think that starts in our
Speaker 2: own homes. I think that starts by how the media
Speaker 2: that we consume, how we behave on social media, ourselves,
Speaker 2: and I think it goes out from there. It's a
Speaker 2: much deeper conversation. I know the algorithm rewards the kind
Speaker 2: of negativity and all of that, but I do think
Speaker 2: that people feel coming back to your original question, Look,
Speaker 2: I've got a lot on my plate. I'm taking care
Speaker 2: of aging parents, I'm going through my savings taking care
Speaker 2: of aging parents. I myself have some health challenges. My
Speaker 2: kids may have health challenges. I may be dealing with
Speaker 2: mental health struggles. There. I'm dealing with maybe one or
Speaker 2: two jobs, maybe my husband or myself is out of work.
Speaker 2: There's a lot going on, and people aren't brought up.
Speaker 2: They don't feel hopeful when they turn on the news
Speaker 2: or when they turn on social media. So how do
Speaker 2: we get people who are dealing with a lot, who
Speaker 2: feel despondent, who feel hopeless, who feel really I think unseen,
Speaker 2: uncared for and undervalued, and that's certainly been a large
Speaker 2: part of the conversations I've had with women over many decades,
Speaker 2: and I think, how do we let people know that
Speaker 2: they are seeing that they are valued, that they're worth it,
Speaker 2: that they're cared for. These are very I think humanistic conversations,
Speaker 2: and that we understand that they're dealing with a lot,
Speaker 2: and the role of government is to help them feel
Speaker 2: that it's going to be okay, that they are seeing
Speaker 2: that their future will be better, that there are people
Speaker 2: in there of both parties who want to work to
Speaker 2: help them. I don't think that's the feeling in our
Speaker 2: country today.
Speaker 1: Do you think that when you look at the totality
Speaker 1: of everything, where the where the country is at right
Speaker 1: now in that spirit, that people have made a judgment
Speaker 1: and they have simply turned off listening to institutions that
Speaker 1: they used to respect, and that there's no hope to
Speaker 1: re engage them without first turning back on something at
Speaker 1: those institutions that allows those institutions to permeate the wall
Speaker 1: that's been put up to be believed to be trusted.
Speaker 1: How do you do that?
Speaker 2: I think that is up to us. We get the
Speaker 2: government that we deserve right that we bring in. I
Speaker 2: don't think institutions talk. People talk, people raise people up,
Speaker 2: people engage in conversations with a certain tone. Look at
Speaker 2: I grew up wanting to There wasn't a fight that
Speaker 2: I didn't want to jump into. I had four brothers.
Speaker 2: I came from a boisterous, Irish Catholic, very competitive family.
Speaker 2: You threw up a fight, I'm all in. Today, I
Speaker 2: kind of step back and I try to listen in
Speaker 2: a different way. I try to understand in a different way.
Speaker 2: I don't come into the conversation with like my dukes up.
Speaker 2: I come in trying to understand. I come in without,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to demonize the other. I come in
Speaker 2: trying not to think of a person as the other.
Speaker 2: And I think, if we all not, you know that
Speaker 2: this is that I'm doing it the right way. But
Speaker 2: I do get different answers. I do get to a
Speaker 2: different place when I listen more attentively to people, when
Speaker 2: I'm more considerate of where they've come from and where
Speaker 2: they're going. And I think that I can hear people
Speaker 2: differently when they're not screaming at me, and when they're
Speaker 2: not yelling, and when they're not just telling me how
Speaker 2: terrible everything is. I think, look at universally, people are
Speaker 2: concerned about the economy. They always have been, right. They
Speaker 2: want to be able to provide for their families. They
Speaker 2: want to be able to send their kids to school,
Speaker 2: they want to be able to send their kids to
Speaker 2: a safe school. Right, the economy is important. I think
Speaker 2: democracy is important. I just came back from the International
Speaker 2: Special Olympics. There were one hundred and eighty countries in Berlin,
Speaker 2: and I talked over a period of a week to
Speaker 2: people from all different countries, and the universal thing was like,
Speaker 2: you guys, you in America, come on, you've got to
Speaker 2: stay this beacon of hope. You're the democracy we look to.
Speaker 2: You've got to get it together. You've got to be
Speaker 2: able to shine the light. You've got to be able
Speaker 2: to rise above the noise. You're going to be okay. Right,
Speaker 2: there's this like hope that we can continue to stand
Speaker 2: for what we've always stood for. So I think our
Speaker 2: democracy is certainly very important, and it's it's part of
Speaker 2: our identity, right, and it's a great part of our identity.
Speaker 2: So people, I think, you know, when you talk about
Speaker 2: what unites this I think who doesn't want to send
Speaker 2: their child to a safe school, who doesn't want to
Speaker 2: be able to provide for their family, who doesn't want
Speaker 2: to be able to take care of their parents right
Speaker 2: and without going broke themselves right, Who doesn't want to
Speaker 2: work for somebody that's flexible with their you know, the
Speaker 2: challenges they have in the workplace. There's a big, big
Speaker 2: thing of mine, you know, kind of to talk about
Speaker 2: flexible hours, flexible work time for women, you know who
Speaker 2: are raising kids, who doesn't benefit from having family leave.
Speaker 2: There's so many things that we have in common. So
Speaker 2: I'm very hopeful. I don't think that's naive. I'm hopeful
Speaker 2: about our country. I'm hopeful because I see the people
Speaker 2: in our country. I see the people they came to
Speaker 2: special Olympics from the United States, cops who took their
Speaker 2: time off, who've raised millions of dollars, who've run across
Speaker 2: the country wanting to be a part of a movement
Speaker 2: that moves humanity forward. People who are disable to look
Speaker 2: for the best in people, they're out there. We don't
Speaker 2: raise them up. And one of the goals of the
Speaker 2: Sunday Paper, which reaches millions of people every week and
Speaker 2: it's doing the best it has ever done. Is because
Speaker 2: people want something that raises them up. People tell me,
Speaker 2: I've turned off the news. I come to the Sunday
Speaker 2: paper because I want to live my life above the noise.
Speaker 2: I want to be in community with people who are positive,
Speaker 2: who want to be aspirational, who want to be part
Speaker 2: of the problem, and who want to give back and
Speaker 2: want to make a difference. Who doesn't want to be
Speaker 2: in that community.
Speaker 1: When you think about the Special Olympics, Yeah, let's talk
Speaker 1: about it for a minute. How did it come to be.
Speaker 2: It came to be because, well, it came to be
Speaker 2: in our backyard. My mother had a sister with.
Speaker 1: In your backyard. Yes, and now an organization think about that,
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty countries.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And not only is it an a program in
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty countries built by volunteers, mind you,
Speaker 2: it also has a huge healthcare component to it. So
Speaker 2: in Berlin, for example, you saw, you know, hundreds and
Speaker 2: hundreds of doctors volunteering their time to come and see
Speaker 2: Special Olympic athletes who had never seen a doctor. You
Speaker 2: saw a dentists from all over the world taking their
Speaker 2: vacation time to come and look at an athlete's mouth.
Speaker 2: Many of the athletes had never been to a dentist,
Speaker 2: had never been to somebody who checked their hearing, had
Speaker 2: never been to somebody who gave them a pair of glasses.
Speaker 2: So now Special Olympics is not only the largest organization
Speaker 2: for people with intellectual disabilities in the world as a
Speaker 2: sports organization, but also as a healthcare organization as well.
Speaker 2: And that came from my mother and also from my father.
Speaker 2: That came from Democrats and Republicans working together on the Hill.
Speaker 2: That came from people who were interested in making sure
Speaker 2: people with intellectual disabilities could access housing, school programs, medical programs.
Speaker 2: And it was a program and is a program where
Speaker 2: people don't say like I'm a Democrat or Republican, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to help you. It's like, I want to help.
Speaker 2: I want to be a part of this. It lifts
Speaker 2: people up, count me in all over the world. So
Speaker 2: that tells me my dad started Special Olympics. I mean
Speaker 2: my dad started the Peace Corps. Same concept. People want
Speaker 2: to serve. Peace Corps can't handle all the people who
Speaker 2: want to be of service today, who want to go
Speaker 2: out and want to do better. There are thousands and
Speaker 2: millions of people like this all over the world, but
Speaker 2: we don't talk enough about them. They don't make the news.
Speaker 1: How important is service and purpose towards the achievement of happiness?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's it's I think, an integral part
Speaker 2: to everybody's life. Why are you here? What is your
Speaker 2: purpose in being here? I was raised by two people
Speaker 2: who believed you were brought here to serve. Bar you know,
Speaker 2: they didn't have you, there was no excuse, and they
Speaker 2: thought you should start serving at four and five years
Speaker 2: of age, and everybody who was your friend should also
Speaker 2: serve at four or five six. I was a camp
Speaker 2: counselor at Special Olympics when I was six and seven
Speaker 2: years of age. Of course I had no qualifications to
Speaker 2: be a camp counselor the camper than I was, but
Speaker 2: my mother put me to work at five and six
Speaker 2: years of age because she believed that no matter the age,
Speaker 2: we all could make a difference. So I think that
Speaker 2: when you look at people who will tell you that
Speaker 2: they're happy in their life, they will talk about having
Speaker 2: some kind of spiritual life. They will talk about having
Speaker 2: a life of purpose, a life of mission, a life
Speaker 2: of meaning. They will talk about these verticals of their
Speaker 2: life as being integral to them living a quote unquote
Speaker 2: happy life. And that is not a life that's devoid
Speaker 2: of pain. That is not a life devoid of grief
Speaker 2: or sorrow. That's something I've come to understand that a
Speaker 2: meaningful life, or an authentic life, or a happy life
Speaker 2: involves those other things as well. They It involves sorrow,
Speaker 2: it involves incredible sadness, It involves failure, it involves you know,
Speaker 2: being on your back and thinking you're not going to
Speaker 2: make it, And it involves joy, and it evolves meaning.
Speaker 2: I don't think we talk about bad enough actually that
Speaker 2: our lives are a mixture of all of those emotions
Speaker 2: and those experiences. So that when you get to my
Speaker 2: a you're older than me, will you will as I
Speaker 2: say to my kids, You're going to have times when
Speaker 2: you know what hits the fan? What do you have
Speaker 2: inside you that will help you get through those moments.
Speaker 2: Do you have friends who will walk alongside you, who
Speaker 2: will get in the foxhole with you? Do you have
Speaker 2: a relationship with a higher power? Do you have something
Speaker 2: to get up for in the morning. I think all
Speaker 2: of these things are important in our kind of long life,
Speaker 2: if we're lucky enough to have one.
Speaker 1: I think what resonates for me when I listen to
Speaker 1: you say that is you can read when you're younger
Speaker 1: there's a time for all things under heaven. But then
Speaker 1: you experience those things, yeah, reading about them and experience
Speaker 1: and the consciousness of being in the middle of them,
Speaker 1: times of testing, times of real grief and sadness that
Speaker 1: you think there's no way out from. And there is
Speaker 1: talk about resiliency as a quality that's necessary in life,
Speaker 1: that's going to be called on over and over again.
Speaker 1: How important is that?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's critical. I think you know, as
Speaker 2: I try to say to my kids, no one, no
Speaker 2: one has a life devoid of pain. No one has
Speaker 2: a life devoid of suffering. And therefore, how do we,
Speaker 2: you know, handle those moments? And do we have what's
Speaker 2: within us? Do we have the intestinal or internal fortitude
Speaker 2: to keep going when our back is up against the wall.
Speaker 2: So you may lose a job, you may get divorced,
Speaker 2: you may find yourself, you may lose a child. There's
Speaker 2: all of these. I saw that you talked to Fred Gutenberg,
Speaker 2: you know who lost a child, who found himself. I'm sure,
Speaker 2: and continues to find himself in depths of despair, depths
Speaker 2: of depression, depths of not wanting to go on, And
Speaker 2: so we all have to dig in and say, like,
Speaker 2: I've got to go on, I've got to continue. I
Speaker 2: need help. I think what these are one of the
Speaker 2: things you know that you learn as a grown up, Right,
Speaker 2: You've got to be able to ask for help and
Speaker 2: not think that you're so competent that you don't need help.
Speaker 2: I've found that in my own life. I've had to
Speaker 2: ask for help. I've been on the ground. I didn't
Speaker 2: think I would go forward. I didn't know where I
Speaker 2: was going. I had to rebuild my life. And so
Speaker 2: I think that. And it's also not a competition whose
Speaker 2: situation is worse than somebody else's, right, It's when you're
Speaker 2: in those situations, you're not there to compare like, oh,
Speaker 2: well he or she did worse than me. It's like,
Speaker 2: how do I pull myself together to carry on? Do
Speaker 2: I have a relationship with a higher power? Do I
Speaker 2: have a purpose under Heaven? Right? Do I have meaning
Speaker 2: in my life? So I think that having those things
Speaker 2: as long and also having friends that help you and
Speaker 2: those things are critical to having a meaningful life, living
Speaker 2: a life that matters.
Speaker 1: Why do you think it is so hard for so
Speaker 1: many people to ask for help?
Speaker 2: Well, I think we prize here in this country, right, independence, strength,
Speaker 2: being able to do it all going it alone. And
Speaker 2: I think, you know, that's the successful person. And I
Speaker 2: actually think that that image needs updating. Right, what is success?
Speaker 2: Success for you is different than it is for me.
Speaker 2: I used to think, Oh, if I got to be
Speaker 2: the anchor of the morning news show, I'd feel really successful.
Speaker 2: Check and know. I thought, oh, if I write a
Speaker 2: book on the New York Times bestseller list, I'll feel
Speaker 2: really successful. Check. No. So it's an internal job, right,
Speaker 2: feeling quote unquote successful. When you look in the mirror,
Speaker 2: do you like that person? Do you feel like that
Speaker 2: person's living a life of meaning? For much of my life,
Speaker 2: you know, I was raised in a family that if
Speaker 2: you weren't running for president, like sit down, right, if
Speaker 2: you weren't going to go out there and change the
Speaker 2: world at the level that the other people in my
Speaker 2: family had done it, like moved to the back of
Speaker 2: the room. And so that can mess with your head
Speaker 2: for quite some time. So you try to achieve in
Speaker 2: your own way something you think is similar to that
Speaker 2: until you step back and go, like, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: not here to be a sequel. I'm here to carve
Speaker 2: out my own authentic life. I'm here to honor perhaps
Speaker 2: what was done before me, to honor my own family's
Speaker 2: work if I believe in that the work they did
Speaker 2: was admirable. But I'm here to live out something original.
Speaker 2: I'm here to carve out my own authentic path. And
Speaker 2: that means you don't know where that's going, and that
Speaker 2: means that you know you've you've got to do that
Speaker 2: on an internal level so that when you look in
Speaker 2: the mirror, you like that person, you admire that person,
Speaker 2: you respect that person, and so you have to make
Speaker 2: choices right along the way that you know strengthen that.
Speaker 2: And you can look in the mirror and go, I
Speaker 2: don't like that person, and you've got to pivot right.
Speaker 2: And so I think then if you're pivoting, you're going
Speaker 2: to have to ask for help because you don't know
Speaker 2: where you're going. You're like in the forest. So I
Speaker 2: have found asking for help has been a relief because
Speaker 2: I would go like, I don't know where I'm going.
Speaker 2: I don't even know do I go to the left
Speaker 2: or the right? Can you help me? People are like, sure,
Speaker 2: let me help you, or tell me what you need.
Speaker 2: And a lot of the times we don't even know
Speaker 2: what we need. We just maybe need somebody to listen
Speaker 2: to us, or to walk alongside us shoulder to shoulder
Speaker 2: and say nothing. We just need support. Sometimes when people
Speaker 2: say like what do you need, we go like I don't. Oh,
Speaker 2: And then when someone says that to me, I go,
Speaker 2: let's just walk. Let's just walk. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's why sometimes when people I find are like screen,
Speaker 2: Like if I have a kid who's like yelling at
Speaker 2: me or something, I'm like, what are we actually? What
Speaker 2: is this about? It's about what I just told you.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, it's not. Let's sit back and like
Speaker 2: what is what's underneath the here? Tell me more? Why
Speaker 2: are you mad? I don't ever have a parking space here,
Speaker 2: I never had occupation, never value. I'm like, okay, let's
Speaker 2: talk about that as opposed to you can't get in
Speaker 2: the garage. You know. It's always That's what I've learned
Speaker 2: also through that it's always about something other than what
Speaker 2: people are fighting about. And I think that's true in
Speaker 2: politics too. You know, everybody's fighting about this, but what
Speaker 2: are we really fighting about? What are we really fighting about?
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to my political commentary. If you
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Speaker 1: Steve Schmidt dot substack dot com, or at the link
Speaker 1: in the show notes section below. Thank you to each
Speaker 1: and every one of you for listening and watching. For
Speaker 1: people who know you, at the core of your identity
Speaker 1: is Maria de Mo. You've talked about your cable, and
Speaker 1: as someone who's been to your cable, that's an important
Speaker 1: place for you. People gather there, they eat, there, they laugh, there,
Speaker 1: they discussed, They debate things there and at a table.
Speaker 1: You raised two daughters and two sons, and so you
Speaker 1: have a perspective on both daughters and sons. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of talk about a crisis in our men in America.
Speaker 1: There is a massive suicide epidemic amongst middle aged men,
Speaker 1: which apparently is classified information against the coverage it receives
Speaker 1: generally speaking in the news media. What is going on?
Speaker 1: How do you have a healthy sostetnciety with so many
Speaker 1: men who feel displaced and broken, and it's about to
Speaker 1: get a lot worse very fast, at this advent of
Speaker 1: the age of artificial intelligence, where, for example, I just
Speaker 1: said to my daughter twenty years old going into sophomore
Speaker 1: year at college, whatever it is you're going to do,
Speaker 1: and she loves the music business, I urge you to
Speaker 1: do that because no one's going to pay tickets to
Speaker 1: go see the robots sing the song. And you're going
Speaker 1: to need to have jobs that have some human connection.
Speaker 1: And so so many men who drive, who build to
Speaker 1: do things, who don't view themselves as disposable, are treat
Speaker 1: it is disposable. In a society at the edge of
Speaker 1: edge of change. What do we do about that?
Speaker 2: Well, I think we have to talk about it. I
Speaker 2: think we have to assure, whether it's men, women, transgender people,
Speaker 2: gay people, you name it, that no one is disposable.
Speaker 2: I think we started that place. I think people feel
Speaker 2: it comes back to I think so many people feel
Speaker 2: invisible in our culture, in our society, in their lives.
Speaker 2: So many people have not been brought up with love,
Speaker 2: have not been brought up at the dinner table. I
Speaker 2: can't tell you the number of people who come to
Speaker 2: my table and say, I have never been to a
Speaker 2: table like this. I don't have family dinners like this.
Speaker 2: I did not grow up like this. I've never had this.
Speaker 2: And from all walks of life, I hear that almost
Speaker 2: every week, to the tune of like it's take your
Speaker 2: breath away. So I think I think we have to.
Speaker 2: You know, I've tried to do several stories in the
Speaker 2: Sunday paper, and at first people are like, why are
Speaker 2: we doing men? What is that? You know? Men had
Speaker 2: their moment. I'm like, men are human beings. I have
Speaker 2: two boys, I have four brothers. I love men right,
Speaker 2: and so I don't see women's empowerment as something that
Speaker 2: doesn't involve men. I see the table I want men,
Speaker 2: I want gay people, I want straight people. I want black, White, Latino, Asian,
Speaker 2: you name it, Native American. At my table. That's an
Speaker 2: inclusive table. That's the kind of leadership, emotional and strong
Speaker 2: that I think we all want. We want that from men,
Speaker 2: and we want that from women. So I think laying now,
Speaker 2: I think just since we first talked about the men
Speaker 2: and boys, there's a lot more news now about what
Speaker 2: has happened to men, About thea of despair, the depression
Speaker 2: amongst young boys and men, the lack of the role
Speaker 2: of fathers, the amount of families being raised today by
Speaker 2: single mothers. Where do men get their role models? Coaches?
Speaker 2: Why there are so many female teachers. How do we
Speaker 2: get more men to teach so that young boys who
Speaker 2: come into school see right away a man who's also
Speaker 2: there as a teacher. Right rights of passage. We don't
Speaker 2: have that in this country. Other cultures do. I have
Speaker 2: a nephew who's doing a lot of work in the
Speaker 2: rights of passage space for young men. Young men are
Speaker 2: in search of mentors, they are in search of role models.
Speaker 2: We talk a lot at my table about what does
Speaker 2: it mean to be a good man, what does it
Speaker 2: mean to be a successful man today. And there's a
Speaker 2: lot of different conversations going on in that around that
Speaker 2: what is a good man today? And somebody will say, well,
Speaker 2: you know, my mom may tell me this, my dad
Speaker 2: may tell me that, society tells me this. There's no clear,
Speaker 2: I think answer to that question that young boys in
Speaker 2: particular can land on. There's a lot of fear. I
Speaker 2: have a lot of twenty something year old boys at
Speaker 2: my table are like, you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: be able to afford to raise a family. I don't
Speaker 2: have a job that will allow me to buy a
Speaker 2: house like my father or my grandfather. So I think
Speaker 2: this is a multi layered conversation that talks about, you know,
Speaker 2: how do we treat the opposite sex, what is success?
Speaker 2: What kind of a person is standing in front of you,
Speaker 2: and therefore what kind of a future do they have
Speaker 2: the role of vocational training versus you know, just regular
Speaker 2: college honoring and valuing people that deserve our honor and
Speaker 2: valuing they don't get it just because of the sex
Speaker 2: they are, but about the human being that they are.
Speaker 2: And so I think that we need to kind of
Speaker 2: openly talk about that conversation. Richard Reeves was over at
Speaker 2: my house with our good friend Tim Ryan, and we
Speaker 2: were talking about this very subject, and he's going to
Speaker 2: start at Institute for Boys and Men, and he was
Speaker 2: saying how fraught and how complicated this subject is for
Speaker 2: women and for men, and that many people who are
Speaker 2: having it are speaking exclusively to women, and that some
Speaker 2: men are having it talking exclusively to men and saying
Speaker 2: certain things that women might not agree with. So I
Speaker 2: think kind of bringing it out into the open, recognizing
Speaker 2: we have an issue. We have a problem, whether it's
Speaker 2: deaths of despair, whether it's addiction, whether it's porn, whether
Speaker 2: it's video games, whatever it is, let's bring people to
Speaker 2: the table. Let's say we have an issue, we have
Speaker 2: a problem, and what is the road forward for young men,
Speaker 2: for middle aged men, for older men, and how can
Speaker 2: we all the different sexes come together to realize that
Speaker 2: having that conversation should not be fraught with like you
Speaker 2: can't help them because they didn't help us, And how
Speaker 2: we can get to a calm place and saying, well,
Speaker 2: if women are doing well, is it not okay for
Speaker 2: men also to do well? And vice versa.
Speaker 1: There is a online influencer who's been charged with human
Speaker 1: trafficking and all manner of criminal offenses named Andrew Tate
Speaker 1: huge presence online, And what do you say to a
Speaker 1: young man out there? See advice to the parents where
Speaker 1: you The way that I talk to my son about
Speaker 1: it is very directly like a New Jersey dad would. Right,
Speaker 1: Even though I don't live, I.
Speaker 2: Can talk to a son about Andrew Tate differently than
Speaker 2: I could do.
Speaker 1: Right, I say that guy's a shithead, He's a scumbag.
Speaker 1: Don't be like him. I think there's an absence of well,
Speaker 1: I think there's an absence of kind of masculine, decisive
Speaker 1: calling that guy out for what he is in the society. Certainly,
Speaker 1: when I grew up, all the men around me would
Speaker 1: have said some version of that. But what is the
Speaker 1: more soulful expression of that? Right, two men, right from
Speaker 1: the way you see the world to reject right the toxic,
Speaker 1: misogynistic stewart that has sprung up in response to I
Speaker 1: suspect to Me Too movement, an emphasis on women's empowerment
Speaker 1: over these last couple of years. Anytime there's progress, there
Speaker 1: will always be a backlash. You have alienated young men
Speaker 1: who hear these messages filled with grievance, filled with anger,
Speaker 1: filled with cynicism, filled with resentment, filled with an entitlement
Speaker 1: right to take right because you're aggrieved. What do you
Speaker 1: want to say to young men who kind of hear
Speaker 1: that that sirens song right, that says society has taken
Speaker 1: all of this from you, which is what Andrew Tates says,
Speaker 1: And you're entitled to these things, which is never true
Speaker 1: and was never true. And Stu's grievance and anger, What
Speaker 1: is the what is the answer to that? It seems
Speaker 1: to me there has to be some articulation of better
Speaker 1: that's values based. And it's very hard to articulate better
Speaker 1: that's values based in a society that won't let you
Speaker 1: talk about values.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I see a lot of young men
Speaker 2: at my TA. They're not talking about Andrew Tape so
Speaker 2: and I'm not talking about him either, And I don't
Speaker 2: think a young man probably would come to me about
Speaker 2: him anyway.
Speaker 1: Carlson or a Ben Shakira.
Speaker 2: That I know about the positive role models that are
Speaker 2: around them. I think many young men really admire their fathers,
Speaker 2: if they have a father in their life. They admire
Speaker 2: their coaches, they admire their teachers they admire. You know,
Speaker 2: I have more faith in young men that they admire
Speaker 2: people doing really good things. I you know, I said,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know thousands of young men volunteering
Speaker 2: at special Olympics. I never heard one word about Andrew Tate.
Speaker 2: I heard everything about Look at that kid's father. These
Speaker 2: people drove, you know, from this country to that country.
Speaker 2: They put you know, the neighbors put them up. These people,
Speaker 2: you know, open their houses. That's where I stay focused.
Speaker 2: That's where I stay over here, and you know, to
Speaker 2: keep looking at Wow, look at that man over there.
Speaker 2: What an inspiration he is? What is he doing? What
Speaker 2: is how is he changing his community? How is he
Speaker 2: helping young people? How is he? You know? One of
Speaker 2: my son's greatest you know, the people he admired most
Speaker 2: coming up was his football coach at school. He really
Speaker 2: admired his football coach. He admired the guy who helped
Speaker 2: him with math tutoring. He admired a guy who taught
Speaker 2: him how to swim, who took him surfing on the weekend.
Speaker 2: These were the men that he was talking about trying
Speaker 2: to spend time with. He talked about guys who worked
Speaker 2: as camp counselors. So I you know, I mean, you.
Speaker 1: Know, I the values, what are the values within those men?
Speaker 1: Because the dichotomy we're talking about here between Andrew Tate
Speaker 1: and all of these people as they exist in a
Speaker 1: world that I think, and I know and I feel
Speaker 1: as a parent is very real, very present. For a
Speaker 1: long time, I think a lot of parents said, well,
Speaker 1: this isn't real world that goes on in the phone
Speaker 1: screen or on the phone screen, But it is real world.
Speaker 1: It's just happening in a digital space. The Special Olympics
Speaker 1: is absolutely happening in the real world, in a physical space,
Speaker 1: not in a digital space, preferable to the other. And
Speaker 1: I think that for me, at age fifty two, whatever
Speaker 1: age you were, that was perfectly aligned to be like
Speaker 1: literally the first people to hand an iPad to like
Speaker 1: a toddler or an infant. Right, I'm that age, And
Speaker 1: we did right. You know, we gave the kids these machines,
Speaker 1: these phones, we let them play on it. And now
Speaker 1: we've seen the impact of social media with the benefit
Speaker 1: of I guess a generation almost Do you have any
Speaker 1: takeaways from what the impact on society has been on connection,
Speaker 1: how it's driven some of the issues that were that
Speaker 1: we're talking about. If we could go back right to
Speaker 1: twenty ten and say, all this stuff is great, right,
Speaker 1: you can move it with your finger, but but right
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna change society in some some significant ways.
Speaker 1: And you ought to think about those What what would
Speaker 1: those have been to you looking back on them when
Speaker 1: you think about the impact of coursoning all from a
Speaker 1: from a basis now of all of these issues, because
Speaker 1: I know as a parent, the impact of the phone
Speaker 1: the instagram on the kid, I think is immense, immense.
Speaker 2: I think it's a mens on people your age and
Speaker 2: my age as well. I think, uh, you know, I
Speaker 2: think obviously there's no substitute you just listen. I think
Speaker 2: the Surgeon General has done actually a really great job
Speaker 2: on this and and talking about loneliness and talking about
Speaker 2: the effect of uh separation of humanity really people going
Speaker 2: up to their room and watching, you know, just turning
Speaker 2: off the people in their own home to turn on
Speaker 2: what's in the computer. I remember, you know, when my
Speaker 2: kids were little, their dad and I we didn't allow
Speaker 2: any TVs in the room. We didn't let them have
Speaker 2: phones till eighth grade. They weren't you know. Obviously it
Speaker 2: was before you know, they couldn't have an iPad and
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. But it was to try to
Speaker 2: keep them busy in real life with activities, with our conversations,
Speaker 2: with our dinner table, with things that we could do,
Speaker 2: so that what was in the phone or in the
Speaker 2: computer was less interesting than what we were talking about,
Speaker 2: or that what we were doing. And I think that, certainly,
Speaker 2: I think we see record numbers of loneliness, We see
Speaker 2: record numbers of anxiety, of depression. You don't need to
Speaker 2: hear it from me. It's everywhere about the effect on
Speaker 2: young people, but on the effective people of all ages
Speaker 2: in terms of how we speak with one another, how
Speaker 2: we don't speak with one another. People sometimes come to
Speaker 2: my house and they bring their kids and they give
Speaker 2: their kid an iPad is to come to the table.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, we don't do that. Here, the iPad goes,
Speaker 2: the kid comes to the table like and the kid,
Speaker 2: you know, loves it. You know. So I think it's
Speaker 2: you know, and I think parents are pressed, right, they
Speaker 2: don't have the time. People are all doing the best
Speaker 2: they can, but I think people are really waking up
Speaker 2: to the effects of all of this technology. I think
Speaker 2: people are hard pressed for time. They can't afford childcare.
Speaker 2: So in many ways, the iPad is childcare, right. It's
Speaker 2: a chance for you to do your work at home
Speaker 2: if you're a parent and your kid is preoccupied there
Speaker 2: a little bit, and so I think that, you know,
Speaker 2: I think that there's Along with my daughter Christina, we
Speaker 2: did two films called Take Your Pills. One was on Adderall,
Speaker 2: one was on Xanax, and it dealt with this kind
Speaker 2: of twenty four hour workday that everybody's involved in, lack
Speaker 2: of boundaries, inability to be bored, inability to dream, and
Speaker 2: ability to turn off the anxiety that you know you're
Speaker 2: taking a lot of adderall then you have to take
Speaker 2: Xanax to calm down. I talk to a lot of
Speaker 2: people who are turning off social media, who are stepping away,
Speaker 2: who are trying to investigate is there another way of living?
Speaker 2: I think COVID started a lot of that. People moved
Speaker 2: out of cities, People started to look at work in
Speaker 2: a different way. They started to look at what is
Speaker 2: my life like, how do I want to work moving forward?
Speaker 2: Do I want to have children? How many children do
Speaker 2: I want to have? What is the climate what is
Speaker 2: my role in all of this. I think we're in
Speaker 2: a reawakening in many ways, reevaluating the role. I think
Speaker 2: certainly you hear a lot on AI. Now the debate
Speaker 2: is more at the forefront of it, you know, like,
Speaker 2: what are we doing. I'm really worried. I don't know
Speaker 2: enough about AI myself, but I know that in the
Speaker 2: last three months it went from like nobody talking about
Speaker 2: it to everybody talking about it. And I can get
Speaker 2: I can see now when I get letters from people
Speaker 2: asking me to do something. I can tell when it's
Speaker 2: AI written. It's just it's too good, too nice, and
Speaker 2: it's too complimentary, and it's too all around like AI. Right.
Speaker 2: But I think, you know, this is a discussion about humanity,
Speaker 2: about the news business, about journalism, about screenwriters, about all
Speaker 2: of these things. You know, A lot is being a lot,
Speaker 2: is being prone coming back to a lot. There's a
Speaker 2: lot being thrown at all of us, and it's happening
Speaker 2: so quickly that people are struggling to catch up. They're going,
Speaker 2: what's AI, where's it going? All of a sudden, I'm
Speaker 2: getting AI or I just lost my job to AI.
Speaker 2: It's a lot going on, So I'm also of the
Speaker 2: feeling that like trying to kind of I exercise stepping
Speaker 2: back and just taking a beat. Wait a minute, what's
Speaker 2: my role in all of this? What can I do?
Speaker 2: What can I do with my family, with my company?
Speaker 2: How can I lead in a way, in this small
Speaker 2: way that might be better for the people who work
Speaker 2: for me or the people who come to my table.
Speaker 2: I think we all can have that conversation with ourselves.
Speaker 2: Are we part of the solution? Are we part of
Speaker 2: the problem? Are we willing to change how we move forward?
Speaker 1: When you look out ahead, Christina just turned thirty, two
Speaker 1: forty years from now, Yeah, what are you optimistic about
Speaker 1: when you think about this country, you think about its resiliency.
Speaker 1: What is life for your grandkids? You're going to be
Speaker 1: like in their kids?
Speaker 2: Well, I hope you know. I hear a lot of
Speaker 2: people my kids age talking about like, I don't even
Speaker 2: know if I want to have kids because of the climate.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if I can bring a child
Speaker 2: into this world. And that to me is a really
Speaker 2: sobering conversation to listen to young people in their twenties
Speaker 2: and thirties having that conversation. They're talking about what, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're talking about like the you know, the planet's going
Speaker 2: to burn us all alive, right, They're talking about I
Speaker 2: don't know if I want to bring a child in here.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I could ever own a home.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm going to be able to
Speaker 2: work as long as you have worked, mommy. I don't
Speaker 2: know what's happening to the world. I don't know if
Speaker 2: America will be America. You know, twenty years, thirty years
Speaker 2: from now. These conversations were not the conversations that I
Speaker 2: grew up with. I grew up with, you know, we're
Speaker 2: the greatest country on earth. Everybody looks to America. You
Speaker 2: can achieve anything in America. I grew up with a
Speaker 2: very aspirational conversation. We can do better for everybody in America.
Speaker 2: People can do better. It was very very positive. Now
Speaker 2: people are like, oh my god, we're going to you know, disintegrate.
Speaker 2: So I think that that's a I think it's a
Speaker 2: hard time to be a young person. It's a hard
Speaker 2: time to think about, like getting married. It's a hard
Speaker 2: time to think about do I want to have children?
Speaker 2: Do I you know, when I look at my grandchildren,
Speaker 2: I'm like, what is what is their life going to
Speaker 2: look like twenty thirty years from now. I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful,
Speaker 2: but it's sobering, and I think it it. I think
Speaker 2: we're all going to have to play some role in
Speaker 2: steering this ship back into the center a little bit.
Speaker 2: I think we're all going to have to kind of
Speaker 2: bend and compromise. That's the other thing that I grew
Speaker 2: up with. Compromise was not a dirty word. Compromise was
Speaker 2: viewed as something that leaders did. It wasn't viewed as weak,
Speaker 2: It wasn't viewed as losers. It was like, if I
Speaker 2: want this, I'm going to have to compromise. Right, you
Speaker 2: have to do that in a marriage, as a parent, right,
Speaker 2: you always have to compromise.
Speaker 1: It's life and building life.
Speaker 2: Amen. But somehow we view it as like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: they gave this up, or that they're a loser. You know.
Speaker 2: I think we were so judgmental. I wish, I wish
Speaker 2: we would lose some of that. But I'm hopeful that
Speaker 2: America will like fight for its democracy. I hope America
Speaker 2: will show people that we could get along, that we
Speaker 2: could rebuild our center, that we could move forward, that
Speaker 2: we all found our way together. I think this election
Speaker 2: is going to be really important. I hope that we
Speaker 2: can all get above the noise and not jump into
Speaker 2: the you know, kind of the gutter. I hope. I'm
Speaker 2: really hopeful about that.
Speaker 1: Well, we will leave it there. Thank you very much,
Speaker 1: Maria Shriver for spending time.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm very happy to have been here to
Speaker 2: talk with you, uh, and I'm happy that you have
Speaker 2: this m