1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. We are live at Crime 2 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: Con twenty twenty one in Austin. According to a secret 3 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: grand jury called Mom Lorie Valo and I quote used 4 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: her religious beliefs to cover up crime I a murder. 5 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: Rarely have I seen that written in a grand jury indictment. 6 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: Typically grand jurors who are often taken from voter registration. 7 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: Maybe it's called grand because they're thirty forty members of 8 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: a grand jury for a headit or petite jury of twelve. 9 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: That here's a particular case a grand jury, for instance, 10 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: in City of Atlanta, grand jury met Tuesday Thursday. They 11 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: would have one hundred fifty cases a day. They would 12 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: go just like that, bam bam, bam, bam bam, usual 13 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: with one witness and then you walk out the grand 14 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: jury vote. They would go push the buzzards and then 15 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: you'll bring in the next case. It's really fast. It's 16 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: not a decision of guilt or innocence. It is simply 17 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: is there enough evidence to take this to a petit 18 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: petite small jury of twelve. So I've never seen actually 19 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: the detail added in the indictment, which is usually the jurisdiction. 20 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: The general date of the offense, the defendant, the victim, 21 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: the motive death if known, and a list, a bare 22 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: bones list of the state's witnesses on the back. That's 23 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: what an indictment is. It's signed by the jury four person. 24 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: This indictment I found very interesting, Nate, because it goes 25 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: to say that she basically cloaked herself in her fake 26 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: religion as an excuse to commit murder. Let me introduce 27 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: to you an all star panel of guests to make 28 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: sense of the case. First of all, Joseph Scott Morgan, 29 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My 30 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon and now start of a brand new 31 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: series on iHeart Piketon Massacre returned to Pike Countington. Doctor 32 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: Angela Arnold renounced psychiatrists joining us out of the Atlanta 33 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,839 Speaker 1: jurisdiction and you can find her and Angela Arnold MD 34 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: dot com. Andy Cohn my longtime friend and colleague. He 35 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: created the phrase murder rebelia and inspired me to write 36 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: a chapter called Blood Money and my first book, Objection. 37 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: And after I wrote that chapter, Andy, I destroyed the laptop. 38 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: It was so horrible, like people trying to get bloody clothes. 39 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: When crime sing it was only a three hundred dollars 40 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: to ninety nine Hewlett packards. So it's just not that 41 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: big with him. But I thought it was a bad luck. 42 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: Andy Kahn, Director of Victim Services and Advocacy Crimestoppers of Houston, 43 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: and you can find him at Crimestoppers dot org. Ashley Wilcot, 44 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: judge and trial lawyer, court TV anchor, veteran courtroom advocate, 45 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: and you can find her at Ashley Wilcott dot com. 46 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: Nate Eating Nate. It's with the East Idaho News dot com, 47 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: Twitter at Nate knees Now, Instagram at n dot eating. 48 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: Good lord, ma'am. Anyway, do you remember when Laurie Valet 49 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 1: was located in Hawaii and she was walking off with 50 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: her new husband and you can see a hand running 51 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: along with a recorder going, hey, where are your children? 52 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: Where your children are you? That was his hand. He 53 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: was chasing Hall right there, he was facing her. Of course. 54 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, a longtime friend in the trenches, we prosecuted together. 55 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: We have completely different stories about how she met how 56 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: we met, but that's for another day. Forensic expert, the 57 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: founder and director of the Cold Case Research Institute and 58 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: you can find her at coldcase dot org, Coldcase Crimes 59 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: dot org. And Spencer Courson, founder President of Course and 60 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: Security Group at Coursen Security Group dot com, author of 61 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: the Safety Trap, which is really good a security expert 62 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: secrets for staying safe in a dangerous world. You can 63 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: find that at safety trap dot com. Good lord, man, 64 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: I don't even have time to read all this about 65 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: Spencer Courson, but let's just get right down to it. 66 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: The very latest in the Cultmum Laurie Valle case, and 67 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: let's don't leave out our connive and fifth husband, Chad 68 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: Dave al Decult leader. She has just been declared incompetent 69 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: to stay in trial, which is just burning me up. 70 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: She kills, allegedly kills JJ who was seven, Tyley who 71 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: was sixteen at the time. Then she's got a dead husband, 72 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: Joe Ryan, who died in his sleep. Then she's got 73 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: Tammy day Bell, her husband's wife. I love this. Tammy 74 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: day Bell dies of her sleep. But before she died, 75 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: Colt Mom had already researched beach wedding dress and bought 76 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: it on Google, and bought a ring and bought her 77 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: husband's outfit that they wore two weeks later to their 78 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: beach wedding in Hawaii. So either she's a killer or 79 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: she's claire voyant. But now it has been declared incompetent. 80 00:05:55,400 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: Now to the lawyers as she willcot. Incompetent is a 81 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: lot different from being declared in Signe explained, right, absolutely, So. 82 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: Incompetent means is that hopefully loud enough. Incompetent means at 83 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: the time they cannot assist in their trial, in their defense, 84 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: as you well know, Nancy. And so if someone is 85 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: not able to assist in their defense, they're declared incompetent. 86 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: But let me suggest it's a moment in time, and 87 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: it's very different. It doesn't mean they have a mental 88 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: health diagnosis, for example. It means at the moment in time, 89 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: and so you said earlier, and it really struck with me, Nancy, 90 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: that they could say, for instance, oh, my child was 91 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: possessed by zombies and appear to be very not capable 92 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: of assisting in their defense, and at that moment they 93 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: will be declared incompetent. It can be reassessed, which is 94 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: very important today. And I noticed Nate at Nancy exactly 95 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: what the judge said in his order, can you imagine 96 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,799 Speaker 1: all these people did? Oh wait, I left out another husband, 97 00:06:54,360 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: Charles Valoe, who was taught was JJ's dad, came to visit. 98 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: He got shot dead by cult mom and her brother, 99 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: Alex Cox. Now Alex Cox is dead. Have I left 100 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: any dead people out? I mean, don't you think that's 101 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: suspicious that nobody noticed until they're what six dead bodies? 102 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:20,119 Speaker 1: I saw you counting, but incompetent and in Sandy's very different. 103 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 1: Tell me about how Oh I noticed the judge. That's 104 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: what I was going to ask you night. The judge said, 105 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: she may be incompetent right now, but let us rehabilitate 106 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: her and we'll revisit. Yeah. So the psychiatrist went in 107 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: and spent hours with her. What psychiatrist an independent psychiatrist 108 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: tired by the state. So the state went in and 109 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: her defense attorney requested the psychiatrist. They got an independent psychiatrist. 110 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: He goes in and says, she's not competent right now, 111 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: but we believe that with rehabilitation or medication, she may 112 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: be able to become competent. So the judge still needs 113 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: to rule all of this. I just thought of a 114 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: good comparison. Wanda Barzi. Do you remember that perv that 115 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: stole Elizabeth Smart and his freaky wife, Wanda Barzi. Yeah, 116 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: they said she was incompetent and they got her stabilized 117 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: on drugs and so forth, and she's stood trial and 118 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: was convicted exactly. Yeah, people have referenced that. So there's 119 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: a chance that in three months, six months and three 120 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: months they'll review it. In ninety days they'll come back 121 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: and they could say, Okay, she's competent or she's not. 122 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: They didn't have one hundred and eighty days to get 123 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: her to the point of competency. If not, she then 124 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: goes to the point they just wait. They wait until 125 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: she's competent. She's not released. The case isn't over. It 126 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: could take six months, six years before she becomes competent. 127 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: There is no six years. Well, there's no insanity. I mean, really, Cheryl, 128 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: this is a woman that was trying to get her 129 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: hair and her mermaid curls to come to court and 130 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: paint her toenails. Yeah, Bright, what was it turquoise, and 131 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: was trying to make home a lip gloss behind bars. 132 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: She's named more incompetent than we are. She's incompetent to 133 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: be a mother straight up. Yeah, the problem with her 134 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: to me, and Nancy knows this. But the way Nancy 135 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: and now used to work cases back in the day 136 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: is you break it down to its most elementary form, 137 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: and you have got a woman that could plan on 138 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: how she's going to murder her children, how she's going 139 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: to plan a wedding, how she's going to plan an escape, 140 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: how she's going to stay on the lamb. She's competent 141 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: to stand trial, she can participate in all of those things. 142 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: She can damn well participate in. Her friends gave me 143 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: a flashback. Okay, so they took the children's items, their 144 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: possessions and put them in storage and part because they're dead, 145 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: and part of that was caught on video. And isn't 146 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: there a Partnate eating where it shows caught mom Laurie 147 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: Valo and I guess day Bill and they paused to 148 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: kiss or he grabs her booty, he grabs her butt 149 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: and Nancy, these were items that you would if your 150 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: house was on fire, you would leave the house with 151 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: a blanket covered in photos of JJ, a blanket covered 152 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: in photos of Tiley, the jerseys you know it's their 153 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: first sports jerseys framed minutes David, what is it? My husband? 154 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 1: What does it mean to you? If I say this 155 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 1: goes as sentimental? It's clothes that I keep, like one 156 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: of their favorite shirts or a PJ. And I don't 157 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: want to give it to goodwill. I don't want to 158 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: give it away. And we have a bunch of those 159 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: plastic bins in the basement that I fold it up 160 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: well and then give it to him, and he takes 161 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: it down there and puts it in there. No way 162 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: would I throw a white a blanket with all their 163 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: pictures on it. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Can we 164 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: get back to the booty grab if you'd like, soaving 165 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: her children's clothes, her children's clothes at storage and that 166 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: booty grab was when Tammy was still alive. So Chad 167 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: was visiting that storage unit with Lorie when his wife 168 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: was at home. Now when you call him other first names, 169 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: you're right, day belle, mister, and now Nancy, we know 170 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: that that was happening when the kids were buried in 171 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: his backyard. Those visits to the storage units, they were 172 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: taking those items as they were buried in his yard, 173 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: and his wife Tammy was inside the house, likely not 174 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: knowing that they were out there. Okay, Spencer, course and 175 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: just got Morgan are just upon it in the bit 176 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: go I would. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a judge. 177 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: I'm just curious when when when council mandates that these 178 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: people go in for an independent psyche vow, what is 179 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: how what's the ratio on the time that people are 180 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: declared competent versus incompetent? Because if incompetent is it sounds 181 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: to me like a like a cover your butt quote. 182 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: Like when I was in the military, we would always 183 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: go in these operations. The intel community would say at 184 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: this time there's no bad guys there. That they were 185 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: sending us into a trap because by the time we 186 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: got there there could be bad guys there, but by 187 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: by them saying at this time there's no intelligence to 188 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 1: support bad guys coming at you, Is this is incompetent 189 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: because it's so at this moment? Is that a cya 190 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: or the psychiatrists for the evalue. Actually, you're very astute, 191 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: and it's not a bad thing not debate a lawyer 192 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: or a judge. I specifically married a non lawyer. You're 193 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: so right. I think this is a little bit of 194 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: cya because the judge, Come on, she's saying, my children 195 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: are zombies. They had to die. His wife was possessed 196 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: by the evil spirit viola. She had to die. That 197 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: sounds a little crazy, right, But she knew it was 198 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: wrong because they buried the remains and, as Cheryl McCollum said, 199 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: took off on the lamb to hide out, which is 200 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: evidence of guilt. I think this is the judge saying, okay, 201 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: you think she's in competent defense, Fine, let's go have 202 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: an exam. Let's give her time to get rehabilitated until 203 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: she is competent. So he is now or she has 204 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: covered their rear ends on appeal if there's a conviction. 205 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: That's what I think is going to Oh, Joe Scott's 206 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 1: face is contorting. I usually don't getting to see this 207 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: because I'm in a studio, which is Jackie. But okay, 208 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: what what what you know? Having worked having worked as 209 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: a death investigator in Atlanta and New Orleans, all right? 210 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: The idea, I think that the real hard thing to 211 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: get your mind around. As an investigator, you begin to 212 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: think about, well, what are the odds that someone that 213 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: one individual is going to it's going to be in 214 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: the presence of multiple victims on this kind of linear 215 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: timeline that you're thinking about with all of these people 216 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: falling over dead. I've been around dead, a lot of 217 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: dead bodies in my career, and a lot of people 218 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: that have experienced death, but I've never seen a case 219 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: that's like this where you can kind of mark the 220 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: time as time goes by, and you've got to literally 221 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: string of corpses that kind of our little benchmarks along 222 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: just these two people and specifically Valos, you know life, 223 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, where these people are falling over dead and 224 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, what are the odds that this could 225 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: actually happen to just the random person that's out there 226 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: living among us. I want everybody in here to think about, 227 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 1: just for a second, as sad as this is, think 228 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: about how many people in your life you've had that 229 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: have just passed away, you know, And there's no way 230 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: that someone on average is going to match this number. 231 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: And we're not talking about people that are greatly infirmed, 232 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: that are up in age. The one case for me 233 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: and all of these that has kind of stood out 234 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: as Tammy day Bell. You know, how does this perfectly 235 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: healthy woman about to run a marathon. Yeah, about to 236 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: run a marathon. She's t be nine years old, you know, 237 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 1: at the picture of health. And suddenly she just dies. 238 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: And then the authorities, I'll say it, I don't care, 239 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: don't have the good sense to go out and examine 240 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: her body and then release her body without ever drawing 241 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: any blood at all. They can't do talks. So once 242 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: she crosses state lines, and when you take a body 243 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: across state lines, it has to be embalmed. So guess 244 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: what happens anything at from a chemical perspective, if you're 245 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: looking for foreign substances, anything, it's gone because the blood's 246 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: been drained out. They've been involved, and now she's in 247 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: the ground for I don't know, eleven weeks, ten weeks 248 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: before they disinter her. Say it's a major problem along 249 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: this and anybody that actually thinks that this is norm, 250 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: that this is the norm, is off the rocker. And 251 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: so wait a minute, just Scott, before I lose his thought. Yeah, 252 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: says they cannot prove it from the exhimation digging up 253 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: her body because the tissue in the blood is no 254 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: good anymore. Yeah, you're you're absolutely right, and you know, 255 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: she was not autopsy. Just so that everyone understands we're 256 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: talking about Tammy. Okay, she was not autopsy. She was 257 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: just sent to Utah where she was buried at a 258 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: family plot. So unless she had if everybody will kind 259 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: of feel along their neck right here, you have what 260 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: are referred to as strap muscles. They're in here, and 261 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: say you've got a choking event like this, you might 262 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: have little focal areas of humors here. And of course 263 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: you've heard Nancy for years and years talking about batiki ei. 264 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: Those are the little blood vessels that pop due to 265 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 1: this kind of this this indwelling pressure. It's created as 266 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: you do this, these vessels. And if you're absent that 267 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: are you going to look? Because there's nothing else we 268 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: there to our knowledge, there's no evidence of a gunshot wound, 269 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: there's no evidence of stabbing, beating, anything like that. And 270 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: you know, and forever there has got to be asphyxiation 271 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: or poisoning or poisoning. And one of the things that 272 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: kind of came to mind, you know, half the world 273 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: is utilizing some form of insulin. Now, you know, what's 274 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: to say you couldn't have got his hands on insulin 275 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: and injected her and she just went into a common 276 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: died and what if he got her his hands on 277 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: were hibban al ghb, date rap drup odeed her, you 278 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: know those sorts of things. So you got all these 279 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: permutations that are working, and you're thinking, how, how in 280 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: the world, how in the world did they just allow 281 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: her to slip away without ever examining this. Well, I'll 282 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: tell you how because the next of ken decides that 283 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: they're going to be autopsy. So they asked Jan Damel went, oh, no, 284 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: then that's what we're good. So how are they going 285 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: to prove it as that you believe there were a 286 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: lot of texts and phone calls and emails terabytes. Oh okay, 287 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: explain to everybody that's not a computer whiz what that means. Terrible. 288 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: So a gigabyte is a lot of information terabytes. It 289 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: would it could take months and months, literally months and 290 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 1: months to go through all of the text messages between 291 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: Chad and Lorie and her deceased brother Alex, who was 292 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: parked at a church parking lot less than two miles 293 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: from Tammy's house the night she died. They've tracked his 294 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: phone to that parking lot and they mentioned that in 295 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: the indictment, So sitting there like a vulture and maybe 296 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: was his car there and he was at the home. 297 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: Was what was he doing that night? They also were 298 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: able to track down his exact pin points in Chad 299 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: Davil's backyard where they found the bodies and where they 300 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: know the times that those bodies were buried. Alex's cell 301 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: phone ping there so through you know, GPS coordinates. His 302 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: GPS was on on his phone. So they didn't talk 303 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,200 Speaker 1: about Tammy how she died in the indictments, but they 304 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: know how she died because it's it's come back. The 305 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: autopsy has come back, and I think they're saving that 306 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: for trial and they know. I think they have a 307 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: very strong timeline down to the minute the night she died. 308 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: Who was where? And I mean, let's get real, andy, 309 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: people people cannot change who they are. There was a 310 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: story I would tell the jury about the mister tortoise 311 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: and mister scorpion and the scorpion kept begging please carry 312 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 1: me across the river, and the turtle said no, you'll 313 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: bite me and we'll both die, and the scorpion said, 314 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: I promise I won't, So he said, okay, hop on 315 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: halfway across, mister Turtle feels a pain go down his 316 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: arm and he said, why did you bite me? Now 317 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: we'll both die, and the Scorpions said, it's just my nigher. 318 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: My point is, you know they were texting and calling. 319 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: There's gonna be rams of digital analysis. You know, let's 320 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: cut through the crap, let's cut through the bs, let's 321 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: cut through the red tape, and let's just be really 322 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: in a dose of common sense about valor. You know, 323 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,160 Speaker 1: the last execution that I attended, we execute people in Texas, 324 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: they gave a guy a ninety day reprieve and I said, 325 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: you know what, he bought himself a little bit of time, 326 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: But eventually it's going to happen, and it did happen, 327 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: and the same thing's going to happen in this particular case. 328 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: You're going to buy a little bit of time. But 329 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: eventually she is a cold blooded, diabolical, cunning, premeditated murderer. 330 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: And when you look at some of the stuff that's 331 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: come out on her, particularly from the money angles getting 332 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: trying to get life insurance, why did she kill What 333 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: was the motive for her killing her children? They were 334 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:59,479 Speaker 1: reliabilities right. Eventually, it's going to happen. So I know 335 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: it's hard for people. And as someone who has served 336 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: on the Board of Parents and Murder Children and Surviving 337 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: Family Members a homicide for thirty years, ideal with homicide survivors, 338 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: Lorie val is not a homicide survivor. She's a homicidal 339 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: maniac and eventually it's going to catch up to her. 340 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: Why do you say Laurie Valo is not a victim 341 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: when both of her children were murdered. It's kind of 342 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: like Darley Rudier, you remember her in Dallas, a silly 343 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: string lady right here, you know, with her two kids. 344 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: You know, it would be kind of like calling Andrew 345 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: Yates a victim as well. No, well, I agree with you. 346 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 1: I was just interested in your analysis because she did 347 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: not act like a victim at all. No, I mean, 348 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: no brieving mother. Yes, whose are gone, it's going to 349 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: act the way she did. No one's going to take 350 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: off and go to Hawaii. No one's going to pretend 351 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, this isn't happening. And you know, we just 352 00:21:58,040 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: had a case right here that you and I are 353 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: going to talk about next week of a six year 354 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: old that disappeared and the body was just found right here, 355 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: and no one seemed to no one even bother to 356 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: report a missing for a month. Normal families, parents and 357 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: mother's stone act. In this former factor, it's going to 358 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: cash up to her crime stories with Nancy Grace. Okay, 359 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: jump in, doctor. You know, I think in all of this, 360 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: Nancy and I think it's so hard for people to 361 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: believe that someone is capable of this, to believe that 362 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: a mother is actually capable of killing her own children 363 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: and killing all of these other people that were in 364 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: her way. And that's why we keep talking about it. 365 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: We really cannot understand what in the world was going 366 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: through her head. Is she mentally ill? Is she delusional? 367 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,640 Speaker 1: Is she just evil? Does she want money? I don't 368 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: know if we're ever going to know the answer to 369 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: all of those questions. But the most important thing is 370 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 1: it appears she killed a lot of people and she 371 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,479 Speaker 1: needs to bear the consequences of that, doesn't she And 372 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: and I don't you know what if she's if she's 373 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: mentally ill somehow, I don't know. I'd love to have 374 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: the opportunity to talk to her if you want to 375 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: know the truth. Really ill, after she took off a 376 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: head out in Hawaii. Right. I'm not saying she's no. No, 377 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: I'm not no. I think that I think that there's 378 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: a possibility that she may have been living under some delusions, 379 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: maybe a delusion, the delusions that came from her church 380 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: that if she was so, if she was so in 381 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,440 Speaker 1: team with the Lord, why was she sleeping with another 382 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: woman's husband. Well, you know, a delusion. But a delusion 383 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: is a fixed false belief, okay, And you can you 384 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: can make up anything in your head and believe it, Nancy, Okay. 385 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: I had a woman come into the psychiatric ear one time, 386 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: covered in soot. This she had been living like under 387 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: the base boards of her house, and by God, she 388 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: came in and told us that she was Elvis Presley's wife, 389 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,679 Speaker 1: and she believed that with all of her heart and 390 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: there we could not break her of that. We were 391 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: never going to break that delusion. So I don't know 392 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,199 Speaker 1: if Laurie Valo is delusion. I'm also not saying that 393 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: it's an excuse. I would also add that throughout human history, 394 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: religion has very often been a scapegoat. It's been an 395 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 1: excuse for atrocity. Point and when people I bet you 396 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: saw that what I see is someone who believes that 397 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: her actions were righteous, and therefore she has no guilt. Therefore, 398 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: that's why there's so much information, because they weren't trying 399 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,400 Speaker 1: to hide it, because they believed what they were doing 400 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: was God's will. And so when you have when you 401 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: have that kind of delusion, which was especially from her 402 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: husband who saw her as a fan, so she was 403 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: already she already had a predetermined I mean, we saw 404 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: this with the Tom Cruise Kittie Holmes thing. He picked 405 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: her because she was a fan of his. And when 406 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: you have those people who pry on the inherent weaknesses, 407 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: when they find what you're emotionally attached to and then 408 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: exploited for their personal gain, that person's identity gets directly 409 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: tied to that individual, and then when they are convinced 410 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: that what they are doing is righteous, they have no 411 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: guilt about that act, no matter how atrocious it is. 412 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: And so if you don't see those behavioral anomalies, which 413 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: are self evident and obvious and present and recognizable, if 414 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: you are or are a family, a friend, a citizen, whoever, 415 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: and you do not reach out to help those who 416 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: are obviously hurting, then you are just as guilty as 417 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: shirking your responsibility. I don't know how you got to 418 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: that from Lauri Valley. I was with you up until 419 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: the point where you said, if you don't reach out 420 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: and help help for what Mary, the children no help 421 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: with with what you see with the she was going 422 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: out and openly telling people that she thought her children 423 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: were zombies. Right if your neighbor had two kids and 424 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: your friends and she came over to your house and said, 425 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure my child is satan spawn, would you 426 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: not reach out for help for that child? I absolutely would, exactly, 427 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: you absolutely would. But her husband tried to Nancy, remember 428 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: he tried to, and what happened, shot and killed him. 429 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: But he's on video with the police saying I'm very 430 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: worried from my life for my children's life because she's 431 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: saying this, and then the brother shot and killed him. 432 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: So he did try, he did try. He did. He 433 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 1: was alex or Alex I think, along with Lorie, with 434 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: Laurie being the mastermind behind it, lured lured Charles that 435 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: home and he eradicated him. That's that's precisely what happened. 436 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: And Nate, now we're talking about this earlier Laurie, She's 437 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: got to be one of the luckiest people in the world, 438 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: in the world because Alex falls over graveyard dead from 439 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: multiple pulmonary mbali, which you know, still in my mind, 440 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: there is no specific answer as to why this actually occurs. 441 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: So you've got the guy that's the trigger puller in 442 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: this that just he's gone. So it's the only living 443 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: witness Charles Valles martyr and yeah, and I'm you know, 444 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: for me, I'm thinking the only one. The husband comes 445 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: over and gets into a confrontation and called mom's brother. 446 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: Alex shoots him dead in front of JJ and Tylei. 447 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: So JJ's dead, Tyley's dead. Now Alex, the trigger person 448 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: is dead. Yeah, the only person still standing from that 449 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: is Laurie in ballet. One more thing about this, and 450 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: this goes to forgive me, but the condition of the 451 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: children's bodies and they are very different, very very different, 452 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: and how they were treated, and you really need to 453 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: keep this in mind. JJ when he when he was buried, 454 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: he was buried separate from from Tylei, and he was cocooned, 455 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: not saying it was a loving event, but he was 456 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: placed in a specific event adjacent to this dried out 457 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: pond bed or whatever it was NATed. Yeah, white, he 458 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: had on his red pj's. He was rap was inductate 459 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: like a mummy and then placed as opposed to Tyle, 460 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: and she was I don't really know how to say 461 00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: it other than the fact that her body was desecrated 462 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: in a multiplicity of ways that we're not going to 463 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: go into completely, but there, well, there's dismemberment involved, there's 464 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: burning involved. And I still think if you take a 465 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: look at those overhead of the drone images that they 466 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 1: had from the scene, I saw this from the beginning 467 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: and when I saw the fire pit, I was on 468 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: air when that's occurred. I saw the fire pit there 469 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, the FBI guys, they're moving logs around there. 470 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: There's something that's going on there. Initially, this is before 471 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: it was actually reported. I think that part of this 472 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: dismemberment event, I think probably took place in the large 473 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: barn that was immediately adjacent, because you know, you can 474 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: go down this road and eate if I'm correct, there's 475 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: this road that's immediately adjacent, and you're not going to 476 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: do this in an open area. And I think that 477 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: part of this dismemberment of to pass in the back 478 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: just led me to another thought. Y'all jump in, please 479 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: don't wait a little, but you know what I was 480 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: thinking about about motive to kill Tammy Dabel. Not only 481 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: did Dabell want to marry Value, but I think Tammy 482 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: Daviell was like, wait a minute, this girl you've been 483 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: flirting with, now both of her children are missing and 484 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: there's a two disturbed areas of dirt in our backyard. 485 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: I think she figured it out and she had to 486 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: die one more thing. And to my point earlier, Tyley 487 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: her body there was there's a lot to be read 488 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: into how her body was treated. There's a lot of 489 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: anger involved in this as opposed to JJ's body. I think, 490 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: you know. And when the tale is finally told, I 491 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: think that we'll learn more. That's just my opinion, and 492 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: everybody's going, well, I agree with his opinion, and I'll 493 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: tell you a little more. And again, when you've got 494 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: two children that had been murdered completely different ways, and 495 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: then the way they're hidden, not buried, they were hidden, 496 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: which again tells you she knew what she was trying 497 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: to get away with. Tyley took a lot more time, 498 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: and that level of anger was maintained throughout harming her skull, 499 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: dismembering her, putting her in that hole, which incidentally was 500 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 1: in the pet cemetery, then covering her, burning her. To 501 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: burn a body takes a lot of time, y'all. You 502 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: got to get up to about twelve hundred degrees and 503 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: you got to spend hours. This was not quick. Do 504 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: you understand what happened to her was so different than 505 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: what happened to JJ. That goes to motive in my opinion. 506 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: So it sounds to me from what I've read in 507 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: these reports that the husband viewed the son's autism as 508 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,000 Speaker 1: this the only way we can save his soul is 509 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: to end his life. The reports also indicated that the 510 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: daughter was highly protective of her younger brother. If they 511 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: were planning to do this, and if the daughter, who's sixteen, 512 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: hurt them and was going to rat them out, it 513 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: would make sense for them to take her out of 514 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: the equation two. She fought back so that they could 515 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: then have the time to make the son's death ceremonious. 516 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 1: That is scary and it has the ring of truth 517 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: to it. Okay, night Jump in well and in all 518 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: of this. We know that just t weeks before Tammy died, 519 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: the life insurance policy was raised quite a bit. Chad 520 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,520 Speaker 1: signed it and Tammy signed it. But we also know 521 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: that Laurie and Chad have both been indicted for crimes 522 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: related to money and theft. And she was using tilely 523 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: social security money that she was getting because her father 524 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: died and Laurie was a single mother legally at one 525 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: point several points, and so she was getting the money 526 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,479 Speaker 1: from there. So somebody mentioned earlier was money a factor 527 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: in this? I think when it all comes out, it'll 528 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 1: be money in sex. I don't know how Oh well wait, wait, 529 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: let's can we talk about the sex part because I 530 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: love this part. I learned this from a friend of 531 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: Chad day Bales and Laurie Valo. He had a pickup line, David, 532 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: don't get any ideas the pickup line, and it totals 533 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 1: seriously seriousness. They thought that they had been biblical figures 534 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: in the past and kept getting reincarnated, and he would 535 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: tell him he was married to them in a past life. 536 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: So obviously they've already had six so why not? No, 537 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: is that's not true? That is that is true? And 538 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,760 Speaker 1: you sure he'll say it much better than I do. 539 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: You take someone who's narcissistic like Lorie, and we had 540 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: six in a previous life when I was Moses and 541 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: you were who Sarah your mother of Mary. So you 542 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 1: have you have a narcissist like Laurie, and you have 543 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: Chad day Bell who comes up and says, you are 544 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: a goddess, You're beautiful, we were married in a past life. 545 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 1: You've been chosen to lead thee hundred forty four thousand back. 546 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: You feed that, as you mentioned, and you prey on 547 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: that vulnerability or whatever the mental condition. Can you end 548 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: up at the motel. That's how that works. It's a 549 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: fire and gas and fire, you know, gasoline in a 550 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: match right there. So yeah, money did play into it. 551 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: And you mentioned the indictment to Nancy. See. The thing 552 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: I find fascinating is the very first point that the 553 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 1: prosecutor put in that indictment is they use their religious 554 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: beliefs to justify homicide. So if there's any sort of 555 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: defense around their religious angle, which there probably will be, 556 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: I think they're ready to the prosecutors, ready to take 557 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: that challenge on take that argument on Nancy. Can I 558 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: add I think the sex part comes in somewhere else. 559 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: I think jealousy. I think there's something to do with 560 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: that entail and the rage and the dismemberment. And I 561 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: hope I'm wrong. I pray I'm wrong, But as a 562 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: judge I see it all the time. I think there's 563 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:41,320 Speaker 1: an element of inappropriate or sexual and jealousy and rage. 564 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,959 Speaker 1: It had to do with Thylie. I pray I'm wrong. 565 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: You know, I think part of it is Taylee is 566 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: sixteen almost seventeen, right, so she is growing up and 567 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: starting to say things like no, or I won't do that, 568 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: or fighting back with mom. And they hated the fact 569 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: that j was hyperactive. Remember at the end, she said, 570 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: JJ's going crazy. He just was crawling all over the 571 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,000 Speaker 1: cabinets and knocked over a picture of Christ and that 572 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: infuriated her. So I think as you were talking about 573 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: Spencer was talking about his autism, his learning problems feeding 574 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: into it. She was now facing real issues in parenting 575 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: and didn't want to be bothered. I really believe that. Okay, 576 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: I can't believe, you know. You know what I want. 577 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,240 Speaker 1: Here's what I want the media to start calling her 578 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: and let's again, let's be real here, she's now attributed 579 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:45,239 Speaker 1: to what six deaths? What do we call someone who's 580 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: now accused of killing six people a serial killer? We 581 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: call him a serial killer? Right? Has she been called that? No? Well, 582 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: let's start today calling her for what she truly is. 583 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: She is a serial killer of story right, Okay, Cheryl, 584 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: I see you trying to jump in. I am all 585 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: about that. It needs to happen. But before we go 586 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: any further, I just want to say I loved the hashtag, 587 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 1: but I'm going to start tonight. Nancy Gray said, oh, 588 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: the six part. I love this part. And we were 589 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: married in a previous life. So let's go to the 590 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: motels six ound love that I was most Cheryl's neffe 591 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: Terry and who else we got down here crime stories 592 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. So how much longer shall we get 593 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: a decision on her mental state? There's a competency hearing 594 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: week after next where the judge will I produce. The 595 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: judge is going to say, all right, let's give it 596 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: ninety days. Let's pause everything because everything is on pause 597 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: now we'll see what the mental state hospital says, and 598 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,800 Speaker 1: he could then say, okay, she's competent, and then everything 599 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 1: picks up and moves forward, or he could They could 600 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: say she needs more time. Chad's proceedings move forward. He's 601 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: in court on Tuesday where he will plead guilty or 602 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,919 Speaker 1: not guilty to the charges. I think I know which 603 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: one is going to pick. Yes, they're both in jail. Yeah, yeah, 604 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: they're both in jail. Anybody got questions because these are 605 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: the experts. Yes, what does the penill think that everything 606 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: will be turned back on and Blaine will be placed 607 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: solely on him. I definitely think that's going to be 608 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,200 Speaker 1: the defense because Alex is in the middle of everything. Oh, 609 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: which reminds me. Shortly before Lorie Vatte, shortly before Tammy 610 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: Dayville died, she put it on her Facebook that someone 611 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: took a shot with her with the paintball gun. It 612 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: was Alex Cox with a real good one and he missed. 613 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,319 Speaker 1: He even googled how do I shoot a gun out 614 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: of a something Eagogle's specific ammunition. They know that he 615 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: visited a sportsman's warehouse and that he had been target 616 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: practicing with a gun in the weeks leading up to this, 617 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: so they likely will blame it on Alex. But those 618 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: kids were buried in Chad day Belle's backyard. Yeah, they're 619 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: the one. More chilling part of this too made Please 620 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: correct me on The last person JJ was seen alive 621 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: with or passed out unconscious with was Alex and he 622 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: had JJ. But wait a minute. Also in the room 623 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: there was the friend Alex Cox with JJ and Coult 624 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 1: Mom saw Alex Cox leave with JJ on his shoulder 625 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: and crawling, and he was found in the same repajamas 626 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: he was wearing that. But wait a minute, here's another 627 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: thing that I find incredible. If my husband call me 628 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,920 Speaker 1: on the phone and went, the cops are here and 629 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 1: they're in the backyard, I say, why are the cops 630 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: at the house? Why are they in the backyard? Remember 631 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: on that jail phone call, he calls her and says, 632 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,800 Speaker 1: the cops are here. She goes, did they find anything? 633 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: And I would I say, did they find anything? Yeah? 634 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: I go, why are the cops in the backyard? Cha, 635 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: Chad debo. When the police arrived, they said you can 636 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: stay here at the house, but you will need to 637 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: be with you at all times an officer. And so 638 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: he went outside went in his car. They said that 639 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 1: as he was making phone calls, he was like this, 640 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: looking over his shoulder, and the minute they found JJ, 641 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: he took off in his car and they radioed to 642 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 1: each other. The officers Chad Daybel just left. They said 643 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: go get him, and the detective who has been on 644 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 1: this since day one, said I'm going to get him. 645 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: Went down there, put the handcuffs on him, so he 646 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,600 Speaker 1: knew what they had found. I mean, I think there's 647 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,839 Speaker 1: going to be a lot of circumstantial evidence. Even though 648 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: Tammy day Bell was you know, what do you say, 649 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: Tammy day Bell? Serial killer? No? I do like serial 650 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,520 Speaker 1: killer No, but they do to your body and bomb 651 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: she was in bomb even without that toxicology. I think 652 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 1: that they're going to have so much of those two 653 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: yacking back and forth. I got a question. I don't. 654 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: I don't because I don't think she ever thought she 655 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: was going to get caught. I really do think that 656 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,840 Speaker 1: she was using that and maybe, like if you have 657 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: asked O. J. Simpson did he do He'll say no, Okay, 658 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: he really thinks that at this point. But I think 659 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 1: that she knew what she was doing. You know, It's 660 00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: very interesting because when what I see a lot in 661 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: my practice is can you can follow? I mean literally 662 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: people can that are very sick, will come in and 663 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 1: say about the same thing, and it always at the 664 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: end of what they're telling me ends up something about God. 665 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: God always comes into that picture at the end of it. 666 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think they're trying to protect themselves 667 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: or something, or make it seem like everything they were 668 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: saying was okay, some kind of justification jumping in. One 669 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,280 Speaker 1: of those ideas came from Chad day Bell. He called 670 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,720 Speaker 1: her before Charles her husband was shot and killed, and said, 671 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,840 Speaker 1: Charles has been possessed by a spirit named ned Schneider, 672 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,479 Speaker 1: and she had a problem with that. According to friend, 673 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: a guy named ned Schneider that was his No one 674 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 1: knows where the name came from. And Viola is the 675 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: spirit that possessed Tammy. Nobody possessed Tammy. Stop saying indictment 676 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,560 Speaker 1: according to the anxiety real and then up. So Chad 677 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,440 Speaker 1: planted the according to the investigators, planted these ideas in 678 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:09,320 Speaker 1: her head, and they said that a big earthquake was 679 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: going to happen, the world was going to end, and 680 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 1: no one would be focused ye a lie last year 681 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,880 Speaker 1: last year, no one would be focused on them, and 682 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: they're missing kids. Everyone would be focused on this calamity 683 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: that was happening, and they would go and build their 684 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,399 Speaker 1: lives and prepare for Christ to return. Nancy, I gotta 685 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: jump in. I don't know how many of y'all know 686 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: my background, but when I was assigned to the Major 687 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: Case Division, I was assigned a prosecutor that was just 688 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: a spit fire named Nancy Grace, and so I have 689 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: worked with her a long time. When we were in 690 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,040 Speaker 1: our twenties, we had a good time in Atlantic Goal. 691 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,320 Speaker 1: But my question, and this is something Nancy and I 692 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: guarantee you would have brought out in court. If she 693 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,799 Speaker 1: believed that zombies were going to kill her children, when 694 00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,919 Speaker 1: her children were found dead, why didn't she call nine 695 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:07,440 Speaker 1: one one and say the zombies finally killed him? I mean, 696 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: I just wonder. I wonder what JJ and Tyie went 697 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: through at their death. Did they know their own mother 698 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,320 Speaker 1: orchestrated their murders? I just and Tyli knew what was 699 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,279 Speaker 1: going to happen. I do I think Tylie knew it. 700 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,360 Speaker 1: I think she had been vocal, and I think she 701 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,600 Speaker 1: was trying to protect her brother, and that's the reason 702 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: she disappeared. First. I absolutely believe it, and again she 703 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 1: will tell you, I don't know what happened to the children. Well, 704 00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: why the hell don't you know it? Now? You tried 705 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: to set up and tell everybody it was gonna be 706 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,160 Speaker 1: a zombie, but you ain't talking about zombies now. And 707 00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: I think a good question is are they gonna I'd 708 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: love to know a neat things. Are they gonna turn 709 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,080 Speaker 1: on each other? You know? Remember Chad day Bell's going 710 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,879 Speaker 1: to trial. She's allegedly incomfident at the moment. Are they 711 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: ever going? That's why she wanted to marry him. He 712 00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,080 Speaker 1: can't testify against her. Oh wait a minute, isn't there 713 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:05,280 Speaker 1: an exception that comes to children? I believe, I believe 714 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,400 Speaker 1: they can. And I that's the question of will Lorie 715 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: turn on Chad? Will Chad turn on her? Well, maybe 716 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: they'll both turn on each other. Will they go all 717 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: the way to the death chair and think they're dying 718 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: as martyrs? Did you want to answer fancy? Well, Cheryl 719 00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: McCollum just keeps just just just the originator of the idea. 720 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: When they when they indoctrinate those those who are under them. 721 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,359 Speaker 1: There's a time like I'm thinking, like to the Keith 722 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 1: Ranieri case, all of those people eventually turned against him 723 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,680 Speaker 1: in the end, once they got to look out and see, 724 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,720 Speaker 1: you know, once they he's talking about the sex cult, 725 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,960 Speaker 1: what are they brand and women? When you're still under 726 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,960 Speaker 1: the indoctrination of that cult mindset, it's very easy to 727 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,279 Speaker 1: not break free. But as soon as you are separated 728 00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 1: from that influence through time and space, and your primary 729 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: influencers are no longer that person, you start you well, 730 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,839 Speaker 1: I really think this religious indoctrination should be treated as 731 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: voluntary use of drugs and alcohol, which are not a 732 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: defense at trial. Oh I got drunk and I killed 733 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: so and so. Well, I'm not guilty because I think 734 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:26,560 Speaker 1: this your decision. One thousand percent agree with you. But 735 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 1: I see what you're saying. So at this point she 736 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:34,720 Speaker 1: should the takeaway ways. She's going to turn on him. Ah, yes, sorry, 737 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,759 Speaker 1: let's just get to the chase. Yeah. Yeah, she's going 738 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:38,959 Speaker 1: to turn on as we like to say, just break 739 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,800 Speaker 1: it down. At this point, I can only think in 740 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 1: slam bye. I needed an editor. Yes, question, Oh my 741 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,720 Speaker 1: question was what was the cause of death for Tyli 742 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,280 Speaker 1: and JJ. I just couldn't remember that so badly damaged. 743 00:46:54,360 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: They don't know, you know, I'm a little surprised. We 744 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,360 Speaker 1: don't have a cod on JJ though, because his body 745 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 1: was still into act. Yeah, they hadn't released it. They 746 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,920 Speaker 1: just sorry, there's five manners of death. They ruled it 747 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,960 Speaker 1: as homicides. That's why they're able to there's a cod 748 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:22,760 Speaker 1: cause on specific of death, then there's a manner of death. Yeah, 749 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:27,280 Speaker 1: and so that's you know, that's that's still to be determined. Again, 750 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,920 Speaker 1: we're waiting with bated breath for Tammy. I don't they 751 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: will ever know how Tyley was killed. I think that 752 00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: would be very difficult if her body is in the 753 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: condition that and I the one other thing that I'd 754 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,560 Speaker 1: like to know about her is how much anti mortem, 755 00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 1: which means before death the trauma did she sustain and 756 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 1: was there any kind of torture involved in her death. 757 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: That's something that I would be very keen to find out. 758 00:47:54,960 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 1: So my question is about autopsies and why they're just 759 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:06,840 Speaker 1: not automatically performed, because you hear about all these bodies 760 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,399 Speaker 1: being exhumed and all these things being overlooked, and all 761 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,959 Speaker 1: this money is spent on all of this, But why 762 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: don't they just autopsy everybody that dies. Every state is different. 763 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: Idaho is a corner state that is an elected, an 764 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 1: elected position, the corner in that particular jurisdiction, in that 765 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:33,439 Speaker 1: little county where Tammy Dayville died elected, and everybody says 766 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,800 Speaker 1: the husband said he didn't want an autopsy. Her authority, 767 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: by law, can trump anything that the family says, or 768 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,279 Speaker 1: herd the corner of her she can trump anything the 769 00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,240 Speaker 1: family says. At that point, she's to certify of death. 770 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,839 Speaker 1: Tammy did not have a treating physician. The corner has 771 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,360 Speaker 1: to sign the death certificate. Now I don't, And again, 772 00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,320 Speaker 1: I don't know how in the hell a corner feels 773 00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,759 Speaker 1: comfortable enough to release the body of a forty nine 774 00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 1: year old healthy woman and say it's a natural death 775 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,400 Speaker 1: and doesn't do anything else about it. And that brings 776 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:20,120 Speaker 1: me to a bigger question. What kind of connection does 777 00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: Chad having that community, if any, to the corner. And 778 00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: a coroner does not have to be a doctor. A 779 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,920 Speaker 1: coroner can be the bus driver. If you get elected, 780 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:34,120 Speaker 1: you're the coroner. Question. Um, yes, I actually don't remember 781 00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 1: the timeline very well, but I was curious when she 782 00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:41,040 Speaker 1: put her her kids clothes into storage, which, by the way, 783 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,359 Speaker 1: I find very weird because if they're dead, and if 784 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,279 Speaker 1: the zombies took them, you don't either you know they're 785 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,560 Speaker 1: not coming back, so why not sell them? Or if 786 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 1: she knows that they're missing, you don't know if they're 787 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,479 Speaker 1: going to be brought home like within a day or two. 788 00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 1: Why would you make all of that time time to 789 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:04,160 Speaker 1: go to storage and do that? And was that a 790 00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,719 Speaker 1: reason that they knew that she kind of did something. 791 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,080 Speaker 1: She put it into storage and then they took off 792 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,799 Speaker 1: for Hawaii, and then the bill never got paid. And 793 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,720 Speaker 1: then the owner of the storage facility saw our video 794 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,879 Speaker 1: of me chasing her down and called me the next 795 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,280 Speaker 1: day and said, I have something you might want to see. 796 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,439 Speaker 1: This woman has not paid her bill. You're toldally gonna 797 00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,640 Speaker 1: be a witness. I've tried to reach her. Well, they 798 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 1: did subpoena me, but we got that taken care of um. 799 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,439 Speaker 1: And so we went over and he showed everything in there, 800 00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,400 Speaker 1: and then it was all collected as evidence. So I 801 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,480 Speaker 1: think that I think it was probably put there as 802 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,719 Speaker 1: a way to abandon it. What other kind of things 803 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,360 Speaker 1: were in storage? There's jj scooter that he loved that 804 00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,640 Speaker 1: he rode everywhere. His scooter that he just adored. There 805 00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:57,600 Speaker 1: was the baby books, all their baby photos. There was toys, bikes, 806 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,960 Speaker 1: everything that it appears related to these children that they 807 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:04,719 Speaker 1: had brought with them to Idaho because they had just 808 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,320 Speaker 1: moved from Arizona, seemed to be in that unit. Because 809 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,359 Speaker 1: the townhouse was empty, there was nothing in there when 810 00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: the police got there. Beds and that was it. Question, yes, 811 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,560 Speaker 1: question if the defense are likely if they decide to 812 00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,000 Speaker 1: pin everything on Alex now that he's dead and the 813 00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,239 Speaker 1: kids were actually buried in Chad's backyard, how much of 814 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,440 Speaker 1: this is actually going to stick on cult mom? Is 815 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,759 Speaker 1: it mostly circumstantial? And then my second question is what 816 00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,279 Speaker 1: other members of this cult are there. I haven't heard 817 00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:44,439 Speaker 1: anything else about the cult itself. Very small group that 818 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,399 Speaker 1: we know of chat but Chad has written Chad day 819 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,520 Speaker 1: Bell has written twenty five books. They're not that good. 820 00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,239 Speaker 1: But and he would go out, it seems, and try 821 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 1: to recruit people in a way see oh, you want 822 00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:00,520 Speaker 1: to talk about the end Times. There was a group 823 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,200 Speaker 1: of about eight or nine, but probably more than were 824 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 1: they mostly women? Mostly women? Yes, that he had been 825 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,600 Speaker 1: married for except Alex. My question is, with the claim 826 00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:16,160 Speaker 1: now of incompetency versus insanity, is that still considered a 827 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: psychological condition. Is she being held in jail still based 828 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,120 Speaker 1: upon that, or is she in a mental institution. She's 829 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,000 Speaker 1: been in jail in isolation since day one. There is 830 00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,520 Speaker 1: no insanity defense in Idaho, so she can't plead insane 831 00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,040 Speaker 1: and the judge will decide the competency hearing if she 832 00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:36,600 Speaker 1: should be treated in jail with medication or whether they 833 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,759 Speaker 1: should move her to the state hospital. And the prosecution 834 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,640 Speaker 1: is opposing the competency evaluation results, by the way, no surprise, 835 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,040 Speaker 1: but they're saying we don't agree she's competent, which is 836 00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 1: one reason there's a hearing, and they could ask for 837 00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: another independent evaluate, another evaluation to come in and decide 838 00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,240 Speaker 1: the stud Yet I think the only reason they haven't 839 00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,839 Speaker 1: is because I think she's going to get rehabbed, whether 840 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:04,040 Speaker 1: ninety days, and get ready for trial. I think that's 841 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,479 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. I think you're right, Nancy. In fact, 842 00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,680 Speaker 1: all the all the prosecutors I've taught to said this 843 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 1: will be a blift and that you know, a few 844 00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:15,399 Speaker 1: months from now, things will be back on track. Question. Yes, 845 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,239 Speaker 1: I just recently listened to a podcast and I'm not 846 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,440 Speaker 1: even sure the names that reminded me a lot of 847 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,879 Speaker 1: this about a mother that had taken two children. She 848 00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: was mental suffering from mental illness, was not supposed to 849 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,319 Speaker 1: be left alone with the children, and said Elizabeth, Elizabeth, 850 00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:37,239 Speaker 1: what's your last name? Jackie Elizabeth, isn't Johnson and Jackson? 851 00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,640 Speaker 1: She had the two children last thing at Chick fil a. 852 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,040 Speaker 1: They've never been said that she had taken them to 853 00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,080 Speaker 1: daycare and they kept tracking down the daycares and could 854 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 1: not find them. Catherine Hoggle. Yeah, so it's been a 855 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,680 Speaker 1: few years now and every time her husband speaks to her, 856 00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:57,399 Speaker 1: she is still saying that her attorneys advised her to 857 00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:03,040 Speaker 1: remain incompetent, so she's not questioned or tried. I don't 858 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,160 Speaker 1: think that's going to happen in this case. That was 859 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,279 Speaker 1: my question. It's that's it. It's Hoggle, that's her name. 860 00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,960 Speaker 1: Thank you. She gets an evaluation every so many. That's 861 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:22,600 Speaker 1: all your reason. Yeah, as I was wondering what had 862 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,440 Speaker 1: happened with that case, it's just too high profile O case. 863 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,400 Speaker 1: You're not gonna You're not gonna get away with me. Hey, Nancy, 864 00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,360 Speaker 1: really quickly, thank you again for you know, putting together 865 00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,440 Speaker 1: and cultivating a catchphrase years ago. You came up with Todd. Mom. 866 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:43,720 Speaker 1: Now you've done cult mom. Congratulations, thank you, Oh my goodness. 867 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,719 Speaker 1: Let's take questions quick go. So my question is with 868 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,319 Speaker 1: this case other you know, the cases about the little 869 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,880 Speaker 1: boy that was found last week in Jasper was Samuel 870 00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:56,000 Speaker 1: from Yes, Um, you know what keeps you from being 871 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,319 Speaker 1: so discouraged about just everybody dropping the ball? I mean, 872 00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:01,680 Speaker 1: the little boy been missing for a month? How long 873 00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,120 Speaker 1: have JJ and Tylly been missing? Anything was done about it? 874 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,400 Speaker 1: I mean it's just you just want to like scream, 875 00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,560 Speaker 1: and it's frustrating that we're here now and we're talking 876 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,720 Speaker 1: about it and guess what they're did. No. I agree, 877 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,759 Speaker 1: you do about it. And the only thing you can 878 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,800 Speaker 1: do just keep trying. Because these cases are to a 879 00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,000 Speaker 1: point we can't do anything about them, but we can 880 00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,120 Speaker 1: do something about future cases. When you think children are 881 00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:33,080 Speaker 1: being neglected or mistreated, that's the only answer. Whoa wa wait, 882 00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:39,520 Speaker 1: oh wait, that's Kevin Mouth. Okay. We are live at 883 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:43,880 Speaker 1: Crime Con twenty twenty one in Austin. Everyone, thank you 884 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:45,759 Speaker 1: for being with us. Goodbye, Fred