Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, I thought it would be nice to ring
Speaker 1: in the new year with an easy select filled with
Speaker 1: Chuck and Me reminiscing about our childhood memories of Putt
Speaker 1: Pud and slush puppies. So for this week's Select, I
Speaker 1: give you our August twenty twenty episode, a miniature golf
Speaker 1: and want to take a moment to wish my dear wife, Yumy,
Speaker 1: a happy birthday. So happy birthday, Yummy, And to you
Speaker 1: dear listeners, Happy New Year.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and
Speaker 1: there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and there's Jerry
Speaker 1: there figuring out all the new contrivances of modern life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we should tell people what's going on.
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting, right, No, well, I'm gonna tell him. Fine,
Speaker 2: So Jerry is figured out now how to operate the
Speaker 2: studio Macintosh recording system. Sure, and not be in the office.
Speaker 1: It's pretty great. It's COVID terrific.
Speaker 2: Actually, And so she was just up on our Skype
Speaker 2: on video and she's still there. But when she switched
Speaker 2: it to mute, it went to that distressing picture. Do
Speaker 2: you see that thing?
Speaker 1: No, I just see JR. Like the letter J in
Speaker 1: the letter R.
Speaker 2: Oh see there she is. She's back.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: When she turned it off, though, was I get a
Speaker 2: photograph of Jerry that looks like she's like sick in
Speaker 2: bed or something. It's weird.
Speaker 1: This is a well that's just Jerry's look.
Speaker 2: Maybe so, I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's a diet of nothing but miso for fifteen twenty
Speaker 1: years will do for you.
Speaker 2: The weirdest thing is this is as close as we've
Speaker 2: come to normal in four months.
Speaker 1: I know. Not only is it like normal, it's almost
Speaker 1: like a throwback. Remember when we had the studio where
Speaker 1: we would look out the window when she was there. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was great. It's kind of like this again. She
Speaker 1: was a window creeper yeap, professionally and in her personal
Speaker 1: life too.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: So this is stuff you should know everybody. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I said it. There are probably a few
Speaker 1: people who are confused and aren't anymore. But we haven't
Speaker 1: gotten started yet, so prepare to be confused again. When
Speaker 1: we explained something in particular, Chuck Miniature.
Speaker 2: Golf, I gotta ask, are you a fan.
Speaker 1: Uh, this made me want to play again. Like I
Speaker 1: grew up playing putt putt or and have very fond
Speaker 1: memories of all the different colored golf balls, you know,
Speaker 1: like the water trap that was really just a stagnant
Speaker 1: little puddle of concrete. You know. Put pet was wonderful
Speaker 1: and great, and there were arcades and birthday parties there
Speaker 1: that featured heavily with g I. Joe action figures and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, the good kind of three and three
Speaker 1: quarter inch ones. M h. And yeah, I am a fan,
Speaker 1: if not just nostalgically in general.
Speaker 2: Yes, and which style And as you as a listener
Speaker 2: will see soon, there are a couple of different things.
Speaker 2: But did you grow up playing just sort of the
Speaker 2: bare bones putt putt or the more miniature golf clown's mouth,
Speaker 2: windmill volcano?
Speaker 1: Well, chuck. If you ask me if I had a
Speaker 1: rich childhood, I will always tell you yes, sir, Yes
Speaker 1: I did. And the reason why is because I grew
Speaker 1: up having putt putt close by in Toledo, and we
Speaker 1: played that a lot. And then when my family would
Speaker 1: vacation in the summers on Catawba Island on Lake Erie,
Speaker 1: and this is like pre cleaned up Lake Erie. There
Speaker 1: was a like a run down little like mini golf
Speaker 1: with like clowns, mouths and windmills and all that stuff
Speaker 1: right by the place where we used to stay, like
Speaker 1: walking distance, and so we'd play there a lot too.
Speaker 1: So I had the best of both worlds, a really great,
Speaker 1: just top notch childhood.
Speaker 2: So I grew up playing putt putt at Stone Mountain Park,
Speaker 2: which we went to a lot because it was near
Speaker 2: our church and the youth group would go and do
Speaker 2: putt putt nights and stuff. So that was a lot
Speaker 2: of fun. And I was sort of partial to those
Speaker 2: that were like, you know, the real putt putt where
Speaker 2: it requires a little bit of skill. But I am
Speaker 2: also a sucker for the beach Town volcano, waterfall, go
Speaker 2: kart bumper boat arcade scene.
Speaker 1: Yep, don't forget laser tag.
Speaker 2: I never really did laser tag. I think that came
Speaker 2: around a little after I was, you know, in my
Speaker 2: prime years for this kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Gotcha, Yeah, it wasn't the same here, but I was
Speaker 1: looking up. Now they have laser tag at putt putt places.
Speaker 2: But I still love those go karts. Man, when we
Speaker 2: go to Isle of palms. Last year, I found a
Speaker 2: place nearby. I was like, we got to go, and
Speaker 2: everyone was kind of like, oh, I don't know, and
Speaker 2: the kids are sort of like, yeah, I guess I'll
Speaker 2: do it. I was like, guys, we gotta go.
Speaker 1: Right, Like, what is wrong with all of you? Who
Speaker 1: are you vacchening with? Chuck?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Man, it was so much a carbon monoxide leak at
Speaker 1: the house.
Speaker 2: You wran no those go karts. I could do that
Speaker 2: all day long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: And of course I got the guy, you know, the teenager,
Speaker 2: squeaky voice, teenager, and I said, hey, man, which one
Speaker 2: which was? Which is the fast one? Means like number eight?
Speaker 1: Really?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah? And sure enough it was really fast.
Speaker 1: You just ran circles around everybody.
Speaker 2: I did such that I even laid off on the
Speaker 2: gas a little bit just to catch up and let people,
Speaker 2: you know, act like they outrace What a sportsman?
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Well we'll talk about go karts one
Speaker 1: day more in depth, but today we're just going to
Speaker 1: focus on the miniature golf.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, this is a pretty interesting history, I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had no idea how far back it went
Speaker 1: until we started researching this and actually it goes all
Speaker 1: the way back to the nineteenth century. And this is
Speaker 1: one of those rare things that's been around a while,
Speaker 1: but you can actually pinpoint like the first one and
Speaker 1: the first miniature golf course in the world as far
Speaker 1: as anybody knows, is that Saint Andrews. It's the Ladies
Speaker 1: Putting Club of Saint Andrews and it was built in
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven strictly for the women members of the
Speaker 1: Ladies Putting Club.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a couple of things that play here. Actually
Speaker 2: really just one thing, which is not letting women do
Speaker 2: things because there was a decree basically that women shall
Speaker 2: not take the club back past their shoulder.
Speaker 1: Commandment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a real golf swing in other words, was
Speaker 2: I guess improper for a for a lady to do.
Speaker 1: The Victorian era was just so stupid when it came
Speaker 1: to social constraints.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out why does that I don't know, ditriarchy.
Speaker 2: I would guess, well, I just wonder why a full
Speaker 2: golf swing would it make their their dress rate rise
Speaker 2: above the ankle or like, I just wonder why.
Speaker 1: I think also women were expected to not over exert
Speaker 1: themselves physically especially in public too, right, it could kind
Speaker 1: of construe that as over exertion.
Speaker 2: Well, and then there's this, which is from an eighteen
Speaker 2: ninety book by Scottish baron Lord Wellwood talking about women
Speaker 2: and when they should golf, when they shouldn't golf, if
Speaker 2: they choose. I was going to do a Scottish accent,
Speaker 2: but I'm just not feeling it. If they choose to play.
Speaker 2: At times when male golfers are feeding or resting, no
Speaker 2: one can object, But at other times, must we say it?
Speaker 2: They are in the way.
Speaker 1: It was kind of snarky to add even the must
Speaker 1: we say it? Like, do I even need to write
Speaker 1: this next sentence? It's so just drippingly obvious.
Speaker 2: But the upshot of this is that's why they created
Speaker 2: the Ladies Putting Club is just to sort of get
Speaker 2: rid of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to get them out of the way of the men.
Speaker 1: But the joke was on the men because this Putting Green,
Speaker 1: this first miniature golf course in the world, is still
Speaker 1: around and it's still considered one of the finest. That's
Speaker 1: actually nicknamed the Himalayas because it has all these kind
Speaker 1: of mountains and hills and hillocks all built into it,
Speaker 1: and they really kind of stand out from what I
Speaker 1: understand against like the Scottish Sea scape, and it's a
Speaker 1: really revered miniature golf course. But it is exactly what
Speaker 1: it sounds like. It is a golf course in miniature,
Speaker 1: Like just like you take a classic golf course of
Speaker 1: the variety that was born in Scotland and you just
Speaker 1: kind of hit it with a shrink ray and then
Speaker 1: you have a genuine, bona fide miniature golf course. And
Speaker 1: that's how the whole thing started out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's what we would call like a
Speaker 2: par three today.
Speaker 1: Right, kind of it seems like par three courses are
Speaker 1: a little different, So this is like, yes, I think
Speaker 1: it does require more than just a putter, right, par
Speaker 1: three would require more than a putter. But there seems
Speaker 1: to be a few different other kinds of golf courses
Speaker 1: aside from the miniature golf course. There's the par three,
Speaker 1: the pitch and putt and executive courses all kind of
Speaker 1: qualified technically as miniature golf courses in different ways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the executive course they got the name because evidently
Speaker 2: an executive could go play a quick ground during lunch.
Speaker 2: A lot of par three's you might have a like
Speaker 2: one par five and a couple of par fours. Is
Speaker 2: that right on a par three on an executive course?
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Yeah, that's what. That's really the only thing
Speaker 1: from what I can tell, that differentiates it from a
Speaker 1: par three course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's a golf course is just shorter
Speaker 2: and therefore doesn't take as long.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's not like the hole is smaller and
Speaker 1: the ball is smaller and the clubs are smaller, like
Speaker 1: just get out of your fantasy land there. Instead, it's
Speaker 1: just the distance from the tee to the hole is shorter.
Speaker 1: There's fewer bends and stuff like that, so the actual
Speaker 1: experience takes less time and less energy and you can
Speaker 1: just kind of fit it in in a shorter amount
Speaker 1: of time. And I think that's the popularity of those
Speaker 1: things generally. Although pitch and putt courses I also saw there.
Speaker 1: They usually consist of a wedge and iron and a
Speaker 1: putter of what you need to play on those and
Speaker 1: they're all about the focus on the short game. And
Speaker 1: as a result, men and women, just average men and
Speaker 1: women who play golf can kind of compete pretty evenly
Speaker 1: because it's all about the short game. It's all about
Speaker 1: finesse rather than you know, just cher power of driving
Speaker 1: as far as you can on like a traditional golf course.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'd love golf. I just don't play anymore.
Speaker 2: Like I grew up playing golf and was not good,
Speaker 2: but I wasn't terrible for as much as I played,
Speaker 2: and I still like it. I just don't, you know,
Speaker 2: have the time or the inclination anymore. But I like
Speaker 2: the big boy courses with the big par fives. But
Speaker 2: I also love a fun little part three, Like Florida
Speaker 2: has a lot of these beautiful par threes, including some
Speaker 2: you can play at night that are all lit up,
Speaker 2: and that's always a lot of fun too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I tried to get acquainted with golf as a youngster.
Speaker 1: My family had, weirdly enough, because this is not like
Speaker 1: my family at all, had a membership at heather Down's
Speaker 1: Country Club. Yeah, and I love the pool because they
Speaker 1: had like, you know, tons of slush puppies and the
Speaker 1: best like nasty hot dogs you can imagine, and there
Speaker 1: was a pool and all that. I think I told
Speaker 1: you the story about Swim League, the swim team where
Speaker 1: I was the worst swimmer on it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I also tried to golf for a couple of
Speaker 1: summers and it just didn't didn't take it up. But
Speaker 1: I was back in Toledo like a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: I think, right before our Cleveland show, and I visited
Speaker 1: the country club. Well, I just drove by and I looked,
Speaker 1: and the pool is now just like a green field.
Speaker 1: It's been filled in, like the little the little snack
Speaker 1: shop has been torn down. I'm like, something really bad
Speaker 1: must have happened there for them to do that to
Speaker 1: the pool.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, there's the And I didn't get to
Speaker 2: go here much because it was private. But Hidden Hills
Speaker 2: was a big neighborhood near my house that had a
Speaker 2: country club that's still around, isn't it. Well, the neighborhood's there,
Speaker 2: but you know, the neighborhood has seen its better days.
Speaker 2: And the country club and golf course is completely just
Speaker 2: shut down and grown over. It's really it looks well,
Speaker 2: it is an abandoned place.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: It is kind of cool. And then I had the
Speaker 2: idea of a movie, like a old school type thing
Speaker 2: where a bunch of old a bunch of like middle
Speaker 2: aged men that grew up there go back and raise
Speaker 2: some money and try and like clean the place up
Speaker 2: and get it going again. Yeah, to hilarity.
Speaker 1: There has to be like a greedy developer that they're battling, right.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so is that the neighborhood that we got
Speaker 1: kicked out of when we tried to go shoot like
Speaker 1: without a license once around that area? Remember the security
Speaker 1: guard came up. It was like, stop what you're doing?
Speaker 2: I don't remember that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, up in one day? Was it on the TV
Speaker 1: show and Gorilla? No, it was like when we were
Speaker 1: shooting shorts.
Speaker 2: I think I don't remember that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was the one.
Speaker 2: Should we take a break already?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, we'll get back and we'll talk about
Speaker 2: where many golf went from here right after this.
Speaker 1: Definitely should know lars of each y s k as
Speaker 1: why why s k? You should know? All right, so
Speaker 1: we're back. Nothing we've talked about right now constitutes miniature
Speaker 1: golf in the mind of anybody who here's the words
Speaker 1: miniature golf, right, Like, what what comes to mind are
Speaker 1: things like putt putt or goofy golf, or windmills or
Speaker 1: clowns or happy Gilmour or something like that, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that all started. Actually that didn't quite start yet.
Speaker 1: It was really leading up to that. And then I
Speaker 1: realized we had to keep going with regular miniature golf
Speaker 1: one more time because it has to spread to America.
Speaker 1: And it did, and we can actually trace that too,
Speaker 1: to the house of a guy named James Barber, who
Speaker 1: is an immigrant from England who was familiar with the
Speaker 1: course the Ladies Punning Club at Saint Andrews. And he
Speaker 1: was rich enough that he said, you know, I want
Speaker 1: a miniature golf course built on my estate at Pinehurst,
Speaker 1: North Carolina. And he did. He had like an eighteen
Speaker 1: hole miniature course built right there in his formal gardens
Speaker 1: and it's just absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 2: It is nice. And this was the first one in
Speaker 2: the United States. And as it's called thistle Do Thhi
Speaker 2: s t l E d Hu and supposedly, as legend goes,
Speaker 2: he when he first saw it he said, this will do.
Speaker 2: I guess he was. He was not blown away, maybe
Speaker 2: I don't know, so dwelling.
Speaker 1: He wasn't one of those spoiled brat, you know, robber barons,
Speaker 1: and instead was like, this will do, this will do
Speaker 1: quite nicely. And they just left off the second part,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's called this will do. And they started
Speaker 2: hosting competitions a couple of years later, and I think
Speaker 2: this is the first time miniature golf was ever used,
Speaker 2: like those words wherever you use to describe the Pinehurst outlook?
Speaker 2: Was that the newspaper, I.
Speaker 1: Guess, yeah, it's their one claim to fame. Oh you
Speaker 1: know it's true though, it's probably true. Yeah, but that
Speaker 1: they were the one that in an account of the competition,
Speaker 1: they coined the term miniature golf. Up to that point,
Speaker 1: a lot of people had called it little Apputian golf, sure,
Speaker 1: after the the little people in Gulliver Gulliver's Travels, and
Speaker 1: that actually that name actually stuck for quite a while.
Speaker 1: So we've got James Barber, who hosted or built the
Speaker 1: first miniature golf course in America. But still this thing
Speaker 1: is like directly connected to the Ladies Putting Club of
Speaker 1: Saint Andrews. It's a golf course in miniature. We still
Speaker 1: haven't quite reached what we would consider miniature golf. And
Speaker 1: that wouldn't happen until nineteen twenty six, which turned out
Speaker 1: to be a really big year for miniature golf in America.
Speaker 1: It was like there was something in the air and
Speaker 1: a few different people kind of tapped into it around
Speaker 1: the same time and it suddenly just took off like
Speaker 1: a rocket.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Two of the guys were some entrepreneurs named Drake
Speaker 2: del Delinois. I guess name John Ledbetter another good name,
Speaker 2: and it's okay.
Speaker 1: He sounds like he'll he'll shoot you.
Speaker 2: He'll led Better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2: They did a pretty cool thing, which is they opened
Speaker 2: up a course on top of a rooftop in the
Speaker 2: Financial District in New York, and that kicked off a trend.
Speaker 2: There were I think about one hundred of those on
Speaker 2: top of roofs. I guess it's before the big rooftop
Speaker 2: bar hotel scene. They had golf courses up there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, miniature golf courses. But again though those were like
Speaker 1: miniature golf courses, so that I mean, that was a
Speaker 1: big deal in New York. Just one hundred rooftop golf
Speaker 1: miniature golf course alone in the twenties, That's that's a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount. And I don't think there's a single one left.
Speaker 1: Actually there should be, there's there's so that kind of
Speaker 1: makes the whole. You know, there's one on top of
Speaker 1: Pont City Market where the house Stuff Works office is.
Speaker 2: Is there golf up there?
Speaker 1: There's a miniature golf course up there, and it makes
Speaker 1: a lot more sense now. Yeah, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a whole mini Coney Island up there. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I've only been up there when
Speaker 2: we had work events, and the only thing I did
Speaker 2: was the slide.
Speaker 1: I didn't know there was a slide.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like a you know, you sit in a
Speaker 2: potato sack and go down the big slide.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, I got it that.
Speaker 2: That was fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a there's a miniature golf course up there.
Speaker 1: We'll have to play sometime when the whole pandemic passes totally.
Speaker 2: And then later that same year you said it was
Speaker 2: kind of a boomy or for mini golf. Lookout Mountain,
Speaker 2: Tennessee and Chattanooga, which is a place where I think
Speaker 2: everybody should go to see Ruby Falls in Rock City. Oh, yes,
Speaker 2: it is a tourist trap, but it's actually kind of neat.
Speaker 1: I mean, the greatest of the great tourist traps and
Speaker 1: it still holds up too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, get a pecan log Oh my god, those are
Speaker 2: so good.
Speaker 1: They are so good. That's what. That also supports my
Speaker 1: theory that candy was perfected in the nineteenth century. I
Speaker 1: never remember nugat honeycomb. Sure pecan logs.
Speaker 2: Was that. I didn't know pecan logs were from way
Speaker 2: back then, but I believe it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, they're definitely old timing.
Speaker 2: So these people, Garnett and FRIEDA. Carter, they built a
Speaker 2: resort called Faeryland Club and it was part of that
Speaker 2: whole sort of interconnected scene there with Rock City and
Speaker 2: Ruby Falls. And they built a miniature golf course and
Speaker 2: they said, you know what, if you like golf, maybe
Speaker 2: you should try mini golf because it doesn't take very long.
Speaker 2: It'll kind of scratch that itch if you're not able
Speaker 2: to play a real round. And that's sort of how
Speaker 2: they marketed it at first. And they they were the
Speaker 2: first people, I think, to start adding the obstacles, right
Speaker 2: they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they used as they were building like the
Speaker 1: inn and the resort complex, they used some of the
Speaker 1: construction materials like train pipes and you know, barrels and
Speaker 1: things like that and built them as hazards. And then
Speaker 1: because they had this whole like fairy tale theme going
Speaker 1: up there. They also built rock City. They were the
Speaker 1: ones who built Rock City, and that has like a cool,
Speaker 1: little weird, weird but also very neat fairy tale theme
Speaker 1: kind of hidden throughout. They added that to their miniature
Speaker 1: golf course, so they had these stationary obstacles and hazards
Speaker 1: that they added, and then they also added this statuary
Speaker 1: of cute little you know, mother goose type stuff, and
Speaker 1: they actually called the whole thing Tom Thumb Golf, and
Speaker 1: Tom Thumb, from what I understand, is the earliest recorded
Speaker 1: English fairy tale character from back in sixteen twenty one.
Speaker 1: And he was a little tiny guy the size of
Speaker 1: his father's thumb, which is where he got his name,
Speaker 1: so it was a pretty appropriate name. They must have
Speaker 1: really like been pretty pleased with themselves when they decided
Speaker 1: to call it Tom Thumb Golf, because it really it
Speaker 1: checked all the boxes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we should mention too, we keep saying Rock City,
Speaker 2: and if you're not from the southeast, you might think
Speaker 2: it's just some like redneck area with a bunch of rocks.
Speaker 2: It's actually a very sweet natural wonder. It's caves that
Speaker 2: you walk through caves.
Speaker 1: It's huge boulders being held up by much much smaller boulders. Yea,
Speaker 1: that's really not that way for probably tens of thousands
Speaker 1: of years. That you walk under their is like yeah,
Speaker 1: there's little cave areas that you kind of duck into,
Speaker 1: and they have little fairy tale scenes with fluorescent day
Speaker 1: or fluorescent yeah, I guess kind of daglaz.
Speaker 2: It's like glow in the dark, weird.
Speaker 1: Like gnomes in fairy tale scenes.
Speaker 2: Like that's the weird part. It's like if Carlsbad Caverns
Speaker 2: had you know, some corny fairy theme mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And then Ruby Falls is really neat too. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a very cool, like natural attraction that they've done a
Speaker 1: good job of like underground water making it easy to
Speaker 1: make your way to. But yeah, it's the whole thing
Speaker 1: is definitely worth going to. And then of course they
Speaker 1: have this the very famous like Sea Rock City barn
Speaker 1: sides that everybody's right of and that was that was
Speaker 1: Garnet Carter who painted one man, or paid one man
Speaker 1: to go around and offer to give a fresh coat
Speaker 1: of paint to barns all throughout the Southeast in exchange
Speaker 1: for letting them paint Sea Rock City on the side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's if you've ever driven around the North Carolina
Speaker 2: South Carolina area and South of the Border, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: South of the Mason Dixon line.
Speaker 2: No, South of the Border is the name of this
Speaker 2: sort of highway tourist trap.
Speaker 1: No, I haven't heard of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's the same deal. I think it's
Speaker 2: I want to say it's North Carolina. But it's basically
Speaker 2: like a glorified rest stop with that has a Mexican
Speaker 2: theme where you can go, like, I don't know, see
Speaker 2: mariachi band and eat good food and buy cheap Chokski's.
Speaker 1: The only mariachi band in all of North Carolina.
Speaker 2: But what made me think about it it might be
Speaker 2: was that they have the same thing for like hundreds
Speaker 2: of miles in any direction, for South of the Border
Speaker 2: and Rock City. They're very famous for these billboards that
Speaker 2: tell you like, oh, it's coming, You're getting closer, You're
Speaker 2: getting closer.
Speaker 1: That's really strange that I've never heard of that. Then, yeah,
Speaker 1: South of the Border check it's not been paying attention.
Speaker 1: So so the Carter's built like this Tom Thumb golf course.
Speaker 1: And again, originally they just did this as kind of
Speaker 1: an amenity their Fairyland Inn in Fairyland Club. But it
Speaker 1: was such a smash hit and Garnet Carter was such
Speaker 1: a born businessman that they were like, I think there
Speaker 1: might be something to this, and they saw either they
Speaker 1: saw it out or he sought them. I'm not quite
Speaker 1: sure how it happened. But there was another guy who
Speaker 1: really factors bigly into this whole story, but he's very
Speaker 1: frequently overlooked, and his name is Thomas McCullough Fairburn. McCullough Fairburn. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he invented a really cheap and easy technique for
Speaker 1: creating artificial putting greens that could be used for miniature
Speaker 1: golf courses.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was a crush cottonseed holes oil, you would
Speaker 2: diet green and they would come in these big roles
Speaker 2: and you just roll it over this foundation of sand
Speaker 2: and boom. You've got an easy way basically to sort
Speaker 2: of franchise these things with these prefab kit that they had,
Speaker 2: and people loved it because it was you know, when
Speaker 2: it was they called it midget golf for a little while,
Speaker 2: not a term we would use today, but it's what
Speaker 2: they called it in the nineteen twenties, right, And this
Speaker 2: factors into a lot of stuff we've been talking about
Speaker 2: with the nineteen twenties lately, just these weird fads that
Speaker 2: would pop up, and tom Thumb golf was one of them.
Speaker 1: It was. And part of the reason that it got
Speaker 1: out from Lookout Mountain is because the Carters and Fairburn
Speaker 1: kind of joined forces and used his technique for making
Speaker 1: these greens very cheaply and used their kind of like
Speaker 1: touch of whimsy, packaged it together and started selling it
Speaker 1: prepackaged sets or prefabricated sets that could be franchised out
Speaker 1: to anybody who wanted to start their own Tom Thumb
Speaker 1: golf course. And so they spread really really quickly, and
Speaker 1: like you were saying, like the twenties, they were just
Speaker 1: looking for whatever craze could come along. Crossroad puzzles, dance marathon,
Speaker 1: flag pole sitting. Well, apparently miniature golf was the king
Speaker 1: of them all as far as the twenties crazes went.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a pretty startling statistic. In August of
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty, the Commerce Department said that there were and
Speaker 2: apparently this could be low by even as much as
Speaker 2: half twenty five thousand twenty five thousand mini golf courses
Speaker 2: in the US, half of which were built in that
Speaker 2: previous six or eight months of the year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a boom right there.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine like in eight months, like twelve to
Speaker 2: fifteen thousand many golf courses being built in the US.
Speaker 2: It's crazy.
Speaker 1: I can just imagine Garnet and freeda carter just rolling
Speaker 1: around on a bed of money in their suite at
Speaker 1: the fairy Land in Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I mean in a legit like job boosting market.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, Well that's another thing too, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: like there was a like flagpole sitting didn't make the
Speaker 1: transition into the depression, and dance marathons did, but they
Speaker 1: got kind of grim apparently. Miniature golf and I've seen both,
Speaker 1: but miniature golf seems to have made the transition from
Speaker 1: twenties craze to you know, kind of national pastime. That
Speaker 1: that made sense in the depression because you could take
Speaker 1: your whole family out to play miniature golf for pretty cheap,
Speaker 1: so that was a big attraction. And then also if
Speaker 1: you were like a golf junkie, but all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you didn't have the money to afford greens fees
Speaker 1: any longer at the very least you could go play
Speaker 1: some miniature golf somewhere. So it kind of scratched that
Speaker 1: itch to a certain a certain degree. So there was
Speaker 1: like a lot of popularity that even after the craze
Speaker 1: kind of crested and waned a little bit, it's still
Speaker 1: carried on pretty pretty thoroughly through the nineteen thirties. And
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, Chuck, some people were like
Speaker 1: that Tom Thumb Golf, the official franchise Tom Thumb Golf,
Speaker 1: it's a little rich for my blood. What else she
Speaker 1: got for me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, why can't we just do this?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, exactly. Local entrepreneurs were like, I got exactly
Speaker 1: the thing, buddy, you want to play half priced miniature golf,
Speaker 1: come on in.
Speaker 2: Like I've got a bunch of PVC pipe playing around.
Speaker 1: Yeah or yeah. So just basically whatever found objects you
Speaker 1: could find, you could you could come across what we're
Speaker 1: called rinky dink miniature golf courses that were basically knockoff
Speaker 1: Tom Thumb courses that used whatever found objects the person
Speaker 1: who built it head lying around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, New York had about one hundred and fifty of them. Washington,
Speaker 2: DC had thirty. One of those is still around the
Speaker 2: East Potomac Park course. Yeah, and yeah, the whole family
Speaker 2: could get involved. And I think one of the keys
Speaker 2: then and now to mini golf being popular and then
Speaker 2: putt putt, which we'll see here in a minute, is
Speaker 2: that you don't even have to like golf at all.
Speaker 2: You can hate golf and still go do putt putt
Speaker 2: and probably have a good time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as long as you don't take it too seriously.
Speaker 1: Don't take it too seriously. Please don't just really don't
Speaker 1: be that guy. That's what it's for. You want to
Speaker 1: take a break in the talk put putt? Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: let's do that. Everybody definitely should know.
Speaker 2: Y s K as what why s K?
Speaker 1: You should know?
Speaker 2: Are we there?
Speaker 1: Who me?
Speaker 2: Are we there are?
Speaker 1: But I thought you said are you there? I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm here. We are there, chuck, because let me set
Speaker 1: the set the table here? Are you ready?
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm hungry.
Speaker 1: America got a little burned out on miniature golf, especially
Speaker 1: the tom thumb and rinkyding varieties, and so a lot
Speaker 1: of it died out, but some remained, some hopped along,
Speaker 1: some are still around today actually, and by the nineteen fifties,
Speaker 1: there was a guy who was playing at one of
Speaker 1: these courses in Fayetteville, North Carolina, which remember was the
Speaker 1: home of miniature golf in the United States. North Carolina
Speaker 1: is and he happened to have just gotten a prescription
Speaker 1: from his doctor saying, you're about to have a nervous breakdown.
Speaker 1: I prescribe you a month's rest from work. And this guy,
Speaker 1: Don Clayton, said, can do and he started playing miniature golf,
Speaker 1: but he wasn't quite satisfied with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I imagine if you were on the verge of
Speaker 2: a nervous breakdown, then Tom Thumb golf is a nice
Speaker 2: salve for that kind of experience.
Speaker 1: Sure, if you're charmed by all the whimsical stuff.
Speaker 2: And you don't take it too seriously.
Speaker 1: Right from what I understand though, Don Clayton was like,
Speaker 1: this whimsy sucks. We need something better than this, and
Speaker 1: I think I'm just the person to build it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he had the idea to to basically make
Speaker 2: miniature golf but without all the garbage, no clown's mouths,
Speaker 2: no windmills, and have a little like have a little
Speaker 2: skill involved, like you can go out there and if
Speaker 2: you're like a good putter, you can actually compete and
Speaker 2: have a good time and it's still for fun, but
Speaker 2: it's just not a silly kids game anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, anybody who's been to an actual putt putt
Speaker 1: course can tell you that it's I mean, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of obstacles, and it's interesting and fun and there's
Speaker 1: some neat stuff, but it does it just does not
Speaker 1: have all of like the the moving bells and whistles
Speaker 1: that you're gonna see on like other kinds of miniature golf,
Speaker 1: like goofy golf.
Speaker 2: Like the obstacles are usually just like some blocks in
Speaker 2: the way and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, like around
Speaker 2: or bank.
Speaker 1: Elevated elevated rhombuses or things like that, or like a labyrinth,
Speaker 1: you know, built into it. It's not like a clown
Speaker 1: mouth or anything like that, which is kind of like
Speaker 1: the go to description for goofy golf, isn't it really?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think like the craziest thing you'll see
Speaker 2: on a putt putt course is where you those that
Speaker 2: are like two levels and you can hit it into
Speaker 2: three different holes at the top and you're like you
Speaker 2: kind of take a little bit of a gamble as
Speaker 2: to where it's going to come out on the bottom. Sure,
Speaker 2: it'll either come out close to the hole, so you
Speaker 2: can get that part two, and I think they're all
Speaker 2: part twos on a real putt putt course, right, or
Speaker 2: it'll spit you out way far away. But you still
Speaker 2: have a chance to hit that long putt for the two.
Speaker 1: Sure, there's always a chance for you a second chance
Speaker 1: at putt putt.
Speaker 2: I think that was the motto.
Speaker 1: So yeah, But so this was Don Clayton's vision. He
Speaker 1: was like, I want to make this a little less goofy.
Speaker 1: I want to make it a little more interesting and.
Speaker 2: Skillful, less goofy, more golfy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, chuck man, he just sat up from his
Speaker 1: grave going I wish I'd thought of that as he did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he died in nineteen nine, Okay, but he had a
Speaker 1: good run. I mean, this is nineteen fifty four when
Speaker 1: he was a twenty eight year old man that he
Speaker 1: decided to try this. So he went to his dad
Speaker 1: and said, hey, I've got this. I've got this idea
Speaker 1: rather than basically, as a New York Times obituary put it,
Speaker 1: rather than basically making a human sized pinball machine for golf.
Speaker 1: We're going to make this a little more interesting. How
Speaker 1: about we cobble together fifty two hundred bucks and we're
Speaker 1: going to build our own little miniature golf course. And
Speaker 1: he did, and like a shaded little lot. And with
Speaker 1: that fifty two hundred dollars, they opened for business and
Speaker 1: within twenty nine days he and his father had made
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of their investment back. And Don Clayton said,
Speaker 1: I think there might be something to this whole thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he he was initially going to call it.
Speaker 2: He went to the bank to open a business account
Speaker 2: and he had to fill out the paperwork and he
Speaker 2: was going to call it the Shady Veil Golf Course.
Speaker 1: But yeah, this is hilarious.
Speaker 2: As the story goes, he didn't know how to spell vail.
Speaker 2: I guess if it was va il or va l e.
Speaker 2: So he just said, uh, putt putt and wrote down putt.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't something he brainstormed. Apparently, it was just
Speaker 2: sort of on a whim. Yeah, and it's a name
Speaker 2: that really really stuck. It's kind of brilliant and it's simplicity,
Speaker 2: I think divine inspiration.
Speaker 1: It almost feels like did that. It just kind of
Speaker 1: happened on a whim. That's just absolutely great. But he
Speaker 1: started to kind of build the whole thing into like
Speaker 1: this enormous industry pretty quickly because he was right. You know,
Speaker 1: there's I did the math. If they made their fifty
Speaker 1: two hundred dollars back in twenty nine days, that means
Speaker 1: that over that month they had twenty thousand, eight hundred
Speaker 1: paying customers. It was a quarter game, twenty five cents
Speaker 1: a game. Yeah, that's a lot of And so when
Speaker 1: they really got together and started putt putt like they
Speaker 1: he was right. He was onto something and it started
Speaker 1: to take off pretty quickly. Apparently had its peak when
Speaker 1: you and I were going to putt putt. They were
Speaker 1: they had something like two hundred and fifty six courses
Speaker 1: throughout the world, mostly in the US and Canada, but
Speaker 1: also in Australia and South Africa and New Zealand, and
Speaker 1: it was it was definitely a thing. Like you said,
Speaker 1: all of the holes were part twos, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this was just to be clear, two fifty
Speaker 2: six didn't sound like a lot compared to the fifty
Speaker 2: thousand that they had in the nineteen thirties. But this
Speaker 2: was his his own putt putt golfing games franchise. There
Speaker 2: was plenty of more putt putt going on in the
Speaker 2: United States than that.
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, yeah, like knockoff putt putt right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the one in Stowe Mountain Park wasn't a
Speaker 2: putt putt golfing games. It was just putt putt, but
Speaker 2: it was it was great.
Speaker 1: It's called Tap Tap.
Speaker 2: They also had trail skate across from the Putt Putt
Speaker 2: which was a roller skating trail through the woods. What. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was like this two mile paved you know, just
Speaker 2: basically like a big paved sidewalk through the woods, and
Speaker 2: they rented roller skates and you just skate through the woods.
Speaker 2: It was really cool, man, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Country folk just have some of the best ideas for businesses,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: I didn't think of it as country folk, but I
Speaker 2: guess it kind.
Speaker 1: Of wash roller skating through the woods this country, I
Speaker 1: guess it is. That's like Dolly Parton level country.
Speaker 2: So yeah, they're all part twos and it is. It
Speaker 2: is tough. It's challenging. Apparently, in the sixty five year
Speaker 2: history of putt putt. There have only been three perfect
Speaker 2: games where you walk away with a score of eighteen,
Speaker 2: which is that's really tough to do.
Speaker 1: I mean, like of the millions and millions of games
Speaker 1: of putt putt that people have played, only three people
Speaker 1: have ever ever gotten a perfect game, which kind of
Speaker 1: shows you how like deceptively hard card a putt putt courses,
Speaker 1: you know, like each one of those, each one of
Speaker 1: those courses made of I think they have something like
Speaker 1: one hundred and eight trademarked holes or like lanes I
Speaker 1: think is what they're called a miniature golf to where
Speaker 1: you can just kind of take them and reconfigure them
Speaker 1: into different different configurations. But they have one hundred and
Speaker 1: eight total, and I guess each one of them is very,
Speaker 1: very difficult. I don't ever remember getting a perfect game,
Speaker 1: or even imagining that I was going to get a
Speaker 1: perfect game.
Speaker 2: Now, im you get two or three holes in one
Speaker 2: and that's a good day for sure.
Speaker 1: So eighteen. There's actually a short I think seven and
Speaker 1: a half minute grant Land documentary on the most recent
Speaker 1: perfect put putt game by a guy named Rick Baird,
Speaker 1: who had his perfect game in twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine the tension on Hoole eighteen.
Speaker 1: They capture it really well in this in this documentary.
Speaker 1: It's really well done. They've got like a cartoon version
Speaker 1: of him putting, and he's got like cartoon sweat just
Speaker 1: running down his faith. Oh man, really great. So nervous. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was very nervous, and he did it. And he's
Speaker 1: actually a miniature golf pro in his spare time, which
Speaker 1: we'll talk about later. But there's So he's from Charlotte,
Speaker 1: Don Clayton was from Fayetteville, and then Joseph Barber was
Speaker 1: from Pinehurst. So it seems pretty clear that North Carolina
Speaker 1: is the ancestral home of miniature golfer at least the
Speaker 1: spiritual home of miniature golf in the world. Frankly, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to say it, in the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you're looking for the creators of the
Speaker 2: kind of mechanized courses, you can go to nineteen fifty
Speaker 2: five and Scranton, PA with Ralph and al Loma. Previous
Speaker 2: to this, you know, you had the Putt Putt, which
Speaker 2: just had the sort of regular obstacles. You had the
Speaker 2: tom Thumb, which had kind of more outrageous whimsy, but
Speaker 2: still things weren't moving, and these are the guys that
Speaker 2: brought in these rotating windmill blades or ramps that moved
Speaker 2: back and forth, and they really kind of kicked that
Speaker 2: to the next level. And they, you know, they went
Speaker 2: into business big time. They started mass producing these things,
Speaker 2: like the actual components, and sold a ton of them
Speaker 2: all over the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think like five thousand courses, Yeah, which is
Speaker 1: pretty impressive. They're the ones who came up with what
Speaker 1: we think of now as like miniature golf and goofy
Speaker 1: golf with the moving stuff, not a fan, the clown mouth,
Speaker 1: don't forget the clown mouth that opens and closes or yeah,
Speaker 1: like you say, a windmill. So it's kind of interesting
Speaker 1: that Don Clayton brought miniature golf back to its roots
Speaker 1: of being a lot more like regular golf, and then
Speaker 1: very shortly after that branched off the Lomas who brought
Speaker 1: it back to that Tom thumb roots. So that whole thing,
Speaker 1: the evolution of miniature golf happened twice in just the
Speaker 1: same way.
Speaker 2: That interesting, Yeah, and it also came back full circle
Speaker 2: in the nineties with a return to the sort of
Speaker 2: that original miniature golf because real golfers, people like Jack
Speaker 2: Nicholas started to get involved. I'm sure there were dollar signs,
Speaker 2: you know, in his eyes. Sure, but he also probably
Speaker 2: loved it. I don't want to be cynical, but I'm
Speaker 2: sure he made some money. But they have competitions, you know,
Speaker 2: there are actual prize purses. There is a US Pro
Speaker 2: Mini Golf Association. They have their own Little US Open.
Speaker 2: I don't think they call it the Little US Open.
Speaker 2: They should, They totally should. There's the World Mini Golf
Speaker 2: Sports Federation in Germany and they sort of are the
Speaker 2: body that standardizes the obstacles and stuff like that. I
Speaker 2: guess what you can have and what you can't have, yeah,
Speaker 2: which is kind of funny when you think about it.
Speaker 1: It is, but it's a pretty interesting list. You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that'd be tough. Oh that's hard, the slope circle with
Speaker 1: a v obstac Yeah, it's just plain difficult. And I
Speaker 1: think they should call it the teeny Weenie US Open.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the teeny Weenie That's open.
Speaker 1: I was looking at the US Pro Mini Golf Association's
Speaker 1: website and there was a Tennessee State Open, and man,
Speaker 1: the picture that they have of that course. It looks serious, dude.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So like if you go to put putt and you
Speaker 1: always were like, I love this. This is so challenging.
Speaker 1: I can score like a sixteen or I guess not
Speaker 1: a sixteen. I just don't play the last two holes
Speaker 1: when I'm on a streak, you know, like a twenty
Speaker 1: or a twenty two or something like that. You might
Speaker 1: actually have fun being a miniature golf pro. And there
Speaker 1: are some serious courses out there for you to play
Speaker 1: that are a couple of notches above your average putt
Speaker 1: putt course.
Speaker 2: I'd like to play one of those, would you.
Speaker 1: I don't know, if I would have fun, I'd make
Speaker 1: a run club.
Speaker 2: Should we talk about some of these famous courses?
Speaker 1: Yeah? So, from what I can tell, the United States
Speaker 1: is the home of miniature golf. It's the capital of
Speaker 1: the miniature golf. I don't believe there's any country like
Speaker 1: I was looking at I was like, maybe Thailand is
Speaker 1: like even more into it than the United States. I
Speaker 1: don't think so. I think the United States is the
Speaker 1: place that has the most miniature golf courses and has
Speaker 1: probably the most paying customers for miniature golf courses.
Speaker 2: I could see Japan.
Speaker 1: I could too, and I don't see anything like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't see anything like it. So the United States
Speaker 1: is the home of miniature golf and the world capital
Speaker 1: of miniature golf. Then is Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, which
Speaker 1: is ironic that it's not North Carolina, but it's not everybody, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Yeah, I mean Myrtle Beach is sort of one
Speaker 2: of those classic old school beach towns that has all
Speaker 2: of the go karts and the bumper boats and the
Speaker 2: mini golf. And they have one called Molten Mountain that's
Speaker 2: pretty cool. Like you should go check out pictures to
Speaker 2: some of these places. There are a lot of fun
Speaker 2: that has a volcano, a working volcano that erupts every
Speaker 2: half hour, and it's sort of an inside and an
Speaker 2: out thing, like I think it's both indoors and outdoors,
Speaker 2: right it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pretty it's a pretty great one. And
Speaker 1: the whole volcano thing, they're not the only one that's
Speaker 1: how nutso Myrtle Beaches, there's another one called Hawaiian Rumble
Speaker 1: that also has a functioning volcano. Two And in fact,
Speaker 1: on Highway seventeen there's a thirty mile stretch of it
Speaker 1: that goes through Myrtle Beach, where there's fifty more than
Speaker 1: fifty miniature golf courses in a thirty mile stretch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, through and I'm sure a lot of opinions on
Speaker 2: which ones are good and which one stink.
Speaker 1: Yep, there's one I want to go to in Palatine, Illinois.
Speaker 1: I think it's a couple of these from Travel and Leisure.
Speaker 1: Maybe this one's called algrim Acres alghri i m Acres.
Speaker 1: It's in Palatine, Illinois, Illinois, and it's a funeral home,
Speaker 1: like for real in real life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you know, they take care of dead bodies
Speaker 2: and you can also play nine holes on their death
Speaker 2: themed course in the basement.
Speaker 1: In the basement. First of all, the basement of a
Speaker 1: funeral home is just creepy on its own. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: a death themed miniature golf course in a funeral home
Speaker 1: that actually functions, that's just downright interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's this one in Las Vegas too, the kiss
Speaker 2: themed one which I checked out on YouTube. I would
Speaker 2: I would play this, even though it goes against two
Speaker 2: things for me, which is not into indoor miniature golf.
Speaker 2: I really would like to be outside and I think
Speaker 2: Kiss sucks.
Speaker 1: What I thought you were a Kiss fan. No, oh, man,
Speaker 1: I thought you were a Kiss fan.
Speaker 2: No, not a Kiss fan never. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: I get it, and I think it's kind of fun
Speaker 2: and funny. Sure, but I never thought Kiss was like
Speaker 2: played good rock and roll songs.
Speaker 1: Really, that's very surprising.
Speaker 2: I know Kiss fans are going to be so mad
Speaker 2: at me for saying their music is not good. But
Speaker 2: I mean there's a reason they dressed up and spit blood.
Speaker 1: And stuff, so there's a But it's still it'd be
Speaker 1: worth playing. I agree, No, it looked fun. The one
Speaker 1: that I would actually travel to go play is called Parking.
Speaker 1: It's in Lincolnshire, Illinois, so I probably go there and
Speaker 1: then i'd dip down or dip up. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: to Palatine to play at algam Akers. Okay, but Parking
Speaker 1: is like exactly what it is. It's the pinnacle of
Speaker 1: a miniature golf course. If you ask me, it's got
Speaker 1: it all. It's difficult, and it has all of the
Speaker 1: amazing obstacles and weird traps and functioning problems to figure
Speaker 1: out that a miniature golf course should have.
Speaker 2: It looked pretty cool. I mean, I'm a putt putt guy,
Speaker 2: but I was checking out pictures and stuff. I would go.
Speaker 2: I would go to parking with you, for sure.
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll go. It's going to be a summer trip
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two or three.
Speaker 2: Fantastic.
Speaker 1: And then if you want to play, so I think, chuck,
Speaker 1: this one would be up your alley. It's called Golf
Speaker 1: Gardens and on Catalina Island in.
Speaker 2: SoCal Yeah, right up my alley.
Speaker 1: This one is like considered the hardest miniature golf course
Speaker 1: in the United States, not just because it's difficultly laid out,
Speaker 1: but also because it's been played so much that's got
Speaker 1: all sorts of weird notches and stuff that's not supposed
Speaker 1: to be there in the playing surface, so that makes
Speaker 1: it all the more difficult, which is kind of neat.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: And then if you want to go retro, I think
Speaker 1: that one's been around a while, you can go down
Speaker 1: to Florida and they have a historic mini golf trail
Speaker 1: that takes you from a miniature golf course, a miniature
Speaker 1: golf course, all of which have been around for at
Speaker 1: least fifty years. Amazing, And if you like weird old
Speaker 1: stuff that's not in use anymore. Look up abandoned miniature
Speaker 1: golf courses. That's a fun thing to do. And since
Speaker 1: I said it's a fun thing to do, everybody, that
Speaker 1: means it's time for listener mail.
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna call this dad mail. Got this
Speaker 2: very sweet email. I love. But when the famili's listen,
Speaker 2: you know, M sure, especially when they're not. I mean,
Speaker 2: I like families with young kids that listen, but I
Speaker 2: also like it when the it's adults and then older
Speaker 2: parents that are listening.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Hey, guys, hope you're hanging in there. These are such
Speaker 2: tricky times. I know you're I'm not the only listener
Speaker 2: that turns to your show for a distraction, or a
Speaker 2: soundtrack to washing dishes, or background noise while trying to run,
Speaker 2: or just something that feels normal during these abnormal times.
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago, my now husband and I
Speaker 2: took a road trip with my parents to stay with
Speaker 2: my now in laws. As we pulled out of the driveway,
Speaker 2: we put on stuff you Should Know and spent the
Speaker 2: entire journey sharing your catalog with them, and they were
Speaker 2: immediately hooked. My parents continue to love your podcast, but
Speaker 2: every time my dad refers to it, he mixes up
Speaker 2: the name. I love this stuff. So far, he's called
Speaker 2: to you guys you should know. Sure, stuff you ought
Speaker 2: to know, Yeah, things you need to know and stuff guys.
Speaker 1: Stuff guys is that's a good nickname.
Speaker 2: Lately he's just been referring to you as the guys podcast,
Speaker 2: which is close enough for me.
Speaker 1: Eventually, we're just gonna get to the Yeah.
Speaker 2: Thanks for all the amazing work and the thoughtful approach
Speaker 2: you have to podcasting. So grateful to have multiple episodes
Speaker 2: to listen to every week. That is from Marabeth, and
Speaker 2: she says, ps, I should add that the episode on
Speaker 2: fractals is now infamously nap inducing in my family, but
Speaker 2: I blame the long stretch of highway on that.
Speaker 1: Thank you. That was very kind of you, nice say,
Speaker 1: really pulled it out at the end there. Who is
Speaker 1: that Marabeth?
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Well, if you want to be like Marabeth and get
Speaker 1: in touch with us, we would appreciate that. Right now.
Speaker 1: You can send it to us via email. It's the
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