1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Mollie John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: today's best minds. We're on vacation this week, but that 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: doesn't mean we don't have an amazing show for you today. 5 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: Emily's List President Leafonza Butler It talks to us about 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: electing pro choice candidates in twenty twenty four. But first 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: we have Princeton professor Julian Zelizer here to talk about 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 1: the historical president for third party candidates. 9 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, Julian. 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: Thanks, it's great to be with you. 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: Delighted to have you, your fancy historian. We love our 12 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: fancy Princeton historians. We try to get them on as 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: much as possible. I want to talk to you about 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: the cage match that we are about to spend sixteen 15 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: months or more covering, and that is what it very 16 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: much looks like will be a rematch between Biden and Trump. 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: Is there any historical precedents for this? 18 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 3: Not really, This is very unusual to have this configuration, 19 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 3: to have this matchup. You know, it's not just the 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 3: matchup of these two guys who have run, but it's 21 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 3: also the matchup of a president and former president who's 22 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,839 Speaker 3: indicted many times over, and so it's one of those 23 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 3: very unique configurations that I don't know how it's kind 24 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 3: of unsault. 25 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: It's funny because when we were texting before this, you said, well, 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: what do you want to talk about? I said this 27 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: and this, and then I said, you know what a 28 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 1: candidate with multiple indictments running for president? And you were like, 29 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of president for that. I mean, 30 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: is there there is some like hinky weird precedent, but 31 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: not mock try it? 32 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 3: No, absolutely, Like So in nineteen twenty Eugene Debs ran, 33 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: he was the Socialist and he was in jail, he 34 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: had been put into prison for the Sedition Act, and 35 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 3: he runs. You know, he doesn't win, but it's a campaign. 36 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 3: And I think that's one kind of model people talk about. 37 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 3: Rick Perry, who was the governor of Texas, was also 38 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 3: indicted when he ran. His campaign was a little like DeSantis. 39 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 3: You know, it was the next big thing until it wasn't, 40 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 3: and that wasn't why it failed. So there are those 41 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 3: kinds of examples as well. 42 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 43 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: The thing that with Trump, which I feel like is 44 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: really important to talk about is that he sort of 45 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: takes advantage of the fact that there is no historical precedent. 46 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that is true, or at least to 47 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 3: create that impression. I mean, when there is no precedent, 48 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 3: people just can't figure out where this all goes. Is 49 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 3: not that normal roadmap people follow or in politics have 50 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 3: about how this plays out because you literally don't know 51 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 3: what's coming next. And by creating the idea of unprecedented, 52 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 3: he shakes people up. I think he's trying to scare them, 53 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: and often they don't know exactly how to reactor. They're 54 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 3: worried that things will unfold in ways you don't think 55 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 3: they will. 56 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that is such an interesting and to such 57 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: an important data point when we're talking about this for 58 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: a minute. 59 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: I mean we're seeing. 60 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 1: Now Trump is trying to kick down the can with 61 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: all these indictments. See if he can kick the can 62 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: down the road, trying to keep all this stuff from 63 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: you know, be able to run without these things hurting 64 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: his campaign. Obviously that will, you know, I mean, he 65 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: can't control some of this, but. 66 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 2: He really can. 67 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: Like I mean, I think what's sort of interesting about 68 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 1: Trump is that fighting accountability is something that he's quite good. 69 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 3: At No, he's good at it. I mean there's an 70 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 3: element of Trump where he can survive these meaning he's 71 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: had a long career politics where he's evading the law, 72 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 3: he's evading problems, and he's figured out how to skirt 73 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 3: the line. He also has a little bit of Richard 74 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: Nixon and meaning not just what he does, but he 75 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: loves to pit himself against an establishment. And Nixon did 76 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 3: that all the time. When people attacked him, it was 77 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 3: the system that was broken, not him. And it wasn't 78 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 3: simply him being attacked, it was his supporters. As Nixon said, 79 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 3: the silent majority was who he stood for. And Trump 80 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 3: does that as well. I think at some level he's 81 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 3: been effective at each indictment coming his way. Somehow it 82 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 3: becomes a way where he can rally support, he can 83 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 3: define himself as an anti establishment person, and you know, 84 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 3: he can also use all of this to threaten the 85 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 3: people investigating him. 86 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a sort of interesting thing. 87 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: I would like to get to Nick, get back to 88 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: Nixon for a minute, because when you listen to Trump, 89 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: so much of what Trump sounds like is like Nixon 90 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: and Spureau I knew. Talk to me about where this 91 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:51,559 Speaker 1: Trump ist, racist, nationalist otherism comes from. 92 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 3: It's a mix. I mean, he is one of the 93 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 3: few politicians who wants to emulate Richard Nixon instead of 94 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 3: away from Nixon. It's fascinating, but I think his rage 95 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 3: against Washington, his rage against coastal elites. Nixon did that 96 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 3: all the time. Nixon, even though he was as establishment 97 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 3: as you could be he'd been vice president, senator, he 98 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: always presented himself as this guy who was continually under 99 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 3: attacked by the Harvard educated, you know, State Department kind 100 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 3: of officials who didn't appreciate what he was and I 101 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 3: think that was his mantra. I think Trump has picked 102 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: that up. And then there's another element of Republican politics 103 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 3: that was there in the sixties. For sure. It's a 104 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 3: kind of reactionary strand of American politics that's against civil 105 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: rights legislation, that's against changes in the country that created 106 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 3: more diversity, and those have allly intensified since Nixon was 107 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: in office. Nixon was not as eager to totally jump 108 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 3: into that kind of politics as Trump is. But I 109 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 3: think both strands have been there since the sixties and seventies, 110 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 3: and Trump has just both brought them together and elevated them, 111 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 3: and he does everything in broad daylight. 112 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's certain like they're coming for you, but 113 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: they have to go through me to get to you. 114 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: That kind of weird, like somehow I'm being prosecuted for 115 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: your persecuted and prosecuted for your sins. It's like almost 116 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: a kind of bizarro Jesus thing. I mean, is there 117 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: a president for that? I mean, was that from the Nixon? 118 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: Is that at George Wallace? I mean, where does that 119 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: come from? 120 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 3: No, I mean in terms of actual investigations. Yes, Nixon 121 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 3: until the end when he resigns in August of seventy four, 122 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: he and many Republicans are adamantly defending the White House 123 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 3: and they were arguing, this is just a partisan way shunt. 124 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,679 Speaker 3: It's an effort by Democrats to undercut what they hated, 125 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 3: meaning that Republicans were the ones who won at the 126 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 3: end of the sixties. And so he did make that 127 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 3: argument until the very end. Bill Clinton did a little 128 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: of this, you know, when he was being impeached. One 129 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 3: of the ways in rally support was to say this 130 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: is partisan Republicans not untrue, such as Nude ging Ridge 131 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: as the Speaker of the House, who were trying to 132 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 3: go after not just him, but what he stood for. 133 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: They were trying to reverse the legacy of the nineteen sixties. 134 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: So it is a strategy we've seen before. I don't 135 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 3: think either Nixon or Clinton came anywhere close to what 136 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 3: Trump has done and is able to kind of use 137 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 3: the ways he's able to use these moments to his advantage. 138 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: I am struck by that. 139 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: We find Trump very like this sort of partisan rhetoric. Yes, 140 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: it definitely, you know, we definitely saw Clinton had issues 141 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: with this, We saw Nixon had issues with that. You 142 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: know that they both sort of did to a certain extent. 143 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: I mean, Nixon obviously is not comparable to Clinton and Clinton. 144 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: You could say there's no one on God's Green Earth 145 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: who doesn't think that Ken Star was a partisan. So 146 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: I mean, yes, he definitely, you know, he definitely committed 147 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: a crime, but as also partisan leading. What I think 148 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: is interesting I'm thinking about is like, so Ron de 149 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: Santis or de Santis, because no one knows how you 150 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: pronounce it, because he won't clarify. 151 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,119 Speaker 2: And he pronounces it both ways. 152 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: Ron de Santis was saying in an interview, like the 153 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: thing that he did, which I actually think is quite 154 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: smart and is why he's much much more dangerous than 155 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: Trump is. He said, well, you know this is a 156 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: partisan because and he pointed to the Alvin Bragg which 157 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: is the least very much the least strong indictment. Right, 158 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: I mean there are real you know, the classified documents. 159 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: I mean you have stuff where you really have him 160 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: on tape saying like, I have a classified document here, 161 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: let me show it to you. 162 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:44,319 Speaker 2: It's a little bit smart. I mean, do you think 163 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: it flies with the right or no? 164 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 3: Well, I mean there's two different strategies. The Santis strategy 165 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 3: is in some ways more familiar. You kind of pick 166 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 3: at the weakness of the case or theest parts of 167 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 3: the case. You highlight those and you say that's what 168 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 3: this is all about. And people are realiz know, the 169 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 3: I think the Hull Alvin Bragg case, it's not as 170 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 3: clear to people what the it is, and even legal 171 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: people say it's a little weaker. And so that is 172 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 3: a strategy you ignore the rest. Let's not talk about 173 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 3: the overturning the election that seems to be coming. Let's 174 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 3: not talk about stealing classified die Let's talk about that one. 175 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 3: I think it can be effective. I mean I think 176 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 3: what DeSantis and other Republicans have is this incredible conservative 177 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 3: media ecosystem which will amplify that message. They will make 178 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 3: the case after DeSantis has Trump's strategies different. It's just 179 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 3: like flood the whole public with just a lot of smear, 180 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: untruth lies, and just to characterize the whole thing, from 181 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: brag to the January sixth investigation as one big partisan 182 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 3: hit job against him. And I don't know which is 183 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: more effective in this day and age. Look, the polls 184 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: suggests Trump is onto something at least compared to DeSantis. 185 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 3: But I think both can work, and I think sometimes 186 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 3: Democrats underestimate how these counter attacks can undercut some of 187 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 3: the political damage. You'd expect either of these two candidates 188 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: to suffer. 189 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: From all of this, right, I mean, the game here 190 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 1: is to try to sort of kick the can procrastinate, 191 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: make it seem like it's a false equivalency, like there 192 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: was a political There's always this feeling, and it may 193 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: just be among a certain group of people, but I 194 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: definitely always sense that there's a feeling that the American 195 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: electorate is getting dumber? 196 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 2: Is it getting dumber? 197 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: What is the phenomenon that we're seeing right now. 198 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 3: I don't know if we're getting dumber. I mean, I 199 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 3: think we all of us live in this atmosphere where 200 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 3: it's very hard to discern what's true and what's not, 201 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 3: and overloaded with information, and the good news, there's a 202 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 3: lot of that information actually makes us smarter. I think, 203 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 3: you know, politics is less secret, we know more about 204 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 3: what's going on. It's hard to be as public. On 205 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: the other hand, there's so much out there unfiltered, unedited 206 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 3: that I do think it's easier to kind of trick 207 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 3: people or distract people today than it was in the 208 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 3: nineteen seventies or nineteen eighties. And secondly, I do think 209 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,719 Speaker 3: a lot of people are disengaged from politics, and so 210 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 3: it's not the dumber, but they're not really as interested, 211 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 3: sometimes justifiably in being totally engaged and sorting through the 212 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 3: kind of information that comes their way. And politicians relate 213 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 3: both of those to kind of move forward or to 214 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 3: di seminate ideas that just aren't true. 215 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is interesting. 216 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: I mean I think about this sort of fake news phenomenon. 217 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 2: This is not a new phenomenon fake news. 218 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,559 Speaker 1: I mean, there is a historical precedent of fake news. 219 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 2: Will you talk to us about that? 220 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: All the things I didn't tell you I was going 221 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: to talk to you about I am now talking to 222 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: you about. 223 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 3: Sorry, No, I mean fake news is always the and 224 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: there's the level of fake news where you know, conspiratorial 225 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 3: ideas make their way into the public. In the nineteen 226 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 3: fifties and sixties, there was you know, conspiratorial ideas about 227 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 3: how Carthy the Karthy, or how the Soviets were putting 228 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 3: fluoride in our water. There's a famous seating in Doctor Strangelove, 229 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 3: which comes out in sixty four, where that's a main 230 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 3: part of the story. And those were circulating ideas about 231 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 3: race and race riots. I mean that always was out there. 232 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,760 Speaker 3: It didn't get as mainstream as it does today. So 233 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 3: there wasn't a Fox News that was the fake news, 234 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 3: and I think that's the kind of marriage of two 235 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 3: forces which has been pretty destructive. 236 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: But you had tabloid journalism. 237 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 3: I mean you had things like that, right absolutely, But again, 238 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 3: the National Inquirer was not kind of hitting the same 239 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 3: audience as the people who read the New York Times 240 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: or the Washington that's no longer true. There's also been 241 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 3: high level fake news, so you know, anyone who studies 242 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 3: Vietnam and the war can go through that Lyndon Johnson 243 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 3: Richard Nixon presidency and see how much misinformation the public 244 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: was being called about what was going on in the wars. 245 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 3: Things that were just categorically not accurate, not capturing what 246 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 3: was on the ground, ultimately led to a lot of 247 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 3: the distrust we have today. I had a lot of 248 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 3: the public sentiment that's susceptible to these other ideas. 249 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is such an interesting thing. 250 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,199 Speaker 1: I mean there were certain things like didn't the public 251 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: not know how sick FDR was. 252 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, they didn't know how sick FDR was. They didn't 253 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 3: know about all of Jay John F. Kennedy's relation. So 254 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 3: there's that level also of that wasn't hiding it, though, 255 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 3: so much as there were things that reporters just weren't 256 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 3: interested in covering, or they didn't think it was needed 257 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: or right to cover. The fake news is different. Information's 258 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 3: being pumped out that's just not true, and I think 259 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 3: that in some ways is even more dangerous because the 260 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: hidden stuff could be found, They could be discovered. This 261 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: becomes much harder to push back against. 262 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does. 263 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because it is like that is the 264 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: same thing with Trump. Right, this uncharted territory, the place 265 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: where there just isn't pressed on you can't look back 266 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: on it and say this is like Nixon, this is 267 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: like this. I wonder, like with this third party candidate stuff, 268 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: you clearly see a lot of people on the right 269 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: nervous that their guy who is likely going to be 270 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: the nominee unless something really huge happens, and even if 271 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,080 Speaker 1: something really huge happens, I mean I think it's going 272 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: to be the nominatee. That there's really a push on 273 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: the right to get a third party candidate going because 274 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: they know that's really the only way they can win. 275 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: We've seen I mean I remember, like I mean, you. 276 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: Think about all of the third party candidates. I mean, 277 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: can we just have a two second on third party candidates? 278 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean third party candidates can cause damn and 279 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: I think people underestimate what they can do. It is 280 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 3: true that the odds of a third party being victorious 281 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 3: are you know, as simile as they get, and we 282 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 3: don't samples of it is other than the Republican Party. 283 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: That's really it in terms of success. But third parties 284 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 3: have a long history of damaging one of the other two. 285 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 3: So the most famous recent memories obviously Ralph Nader in 286 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 3: two thousand, who many people think definitely hurt al Gore 287 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 3: in Florida in particular cut some of his vote. George 288 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 3: Wallace in nineteen sixty eight medically when he ran, he 289 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: actually took Democratic votes away from Hubert Humphrey by kind 290 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 3: of playing to racial backlash and fears in the newer 291 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: they're and ethnic, white working class electorate. That hurt Humphrey 292 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: in a very close election. 293 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: And Ross Barreau right are here. 294 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety two. People dispute kind of how it worked, 295 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 3: but a lot of Republicans think his focus on the 296 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 3: deficit and his issues hurt George H. W. Bush. So 297 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 3: there's a long history of these parties being significant, not always, 298 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 3: but those are some examples that we see. And so 299 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 3: this year, I think both Republicans and Democrats have their 300 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 3: eye on people like Joe Manchin. They have their eye 301 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 3: on primary challenges like Robert Kennedy Junior. And because we're 302 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 3: in this unprecedented world, no one's is comfortable decisively saying 303 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: this won't matter. Because through that in twenty sixteen, and 304 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 3: it mattered. 305 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: Julian, Thank you so much. I hope you'll. 306 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 3: Come back, of course, always a pleasure. 307 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: Lafon's Butler is the president of Emily's List. Welcome to 308 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: Fast Politics, Lafonza. 309 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 4: Butler, thanks for having me. 310 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: Very delighted to have you so explain to us a 311 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: little bit about what your organization does. 312 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, Emily's List is a thirty eight year 313 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 5: old organization that has worked to create the legacy of 314 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 5: changing the face of politics. 315 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 2: We helped to. 316 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 5: Elect democratic, pro choice women to office at every level 317 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 5: of the ballot. Our first race was helping Barbara Mkowsky 318 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 5: get elected to the US Senate in nineteen eighty six, 319 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 5: being the first woman elected in. 320 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 4: Her own right. 321 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 5: From there, the organization story really has taken off and 322 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 5: has had great impact. From the first Year of the 323 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 5: Woman in nineteen ninety two to the sort of second 324 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 5: iteration of the Year of the Woman in twenty eighteen, 325 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 5: it has been this organization that is the largest political 326 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 5: resource for women in politics. 327 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: That is very cool. So talk to me about what 328 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: you're working on right now. 329 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, Molly, there is so much happening in the world 330 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 5: in US politics right now. Some things that we are 331 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 5: focused on now include the elections that are happening in 332 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 5: Virginia this year twenty twenty three. The Virginia State legislature 333 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 5: is going through its first elections after redistricting, and it 334 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 5: is a critical state, bellwether state for what the kinds 335 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 5: of conversations and issues that are top of mind for 336 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 5: voters and elected officials in. 337 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 4: Preview for twenty twenty two. 338 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 5: Virginia is of utmost importance for an organization like ours 339 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,199 Speaker 5: because it is one of the few states on the 340 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 5: Eastern Seaboard where a woman can still access or reproductive 341 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 5: care beyond twelve weeks, and it is important that we 342 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 5: elect a legislature that will help to make sure that 343 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 5: that remains true. And the Governor of Virginia has already 344 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 5: said that he intends to put forward anti abortion six 345 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 5: week ban legislation in Virginia. And having a democratic pro 346 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 5: choice legislature which women will be incredibly important part, is 347 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 5: a real, real priority for us, just like everyone else, Molly, 348 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 5: we are looking forward and in preparation for twenty twenty 349 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 5: four elections and helping women who are running deciding now 350 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 5: if they are going to run for office, make those decisions, 351 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 5: stand up their campaigns, hire their staff and sharpen their 352 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 5: messages and engagement to voters. And you know, we are 353 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 5: very much focused on supporting Vice President Harris in twenty 354 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 5: twenty three and twenty twenty four and beyond. 355 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 4: Our nation has never had. 356 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 5: A woman break through the doors of the White House 357 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 5: until the election of Vice President Harris. And because of 358 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 5: her presence, we are as a nation or having conversations 359 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 5: about reproductive healthcare, We are having conversations about the black 360 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 5: maternal health and maternal health generally. We are talking about 361 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 5: the importance of childcare and sustainable childcare for working class 362 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 5: families across the country. And so her presence in the 363 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 5: supporting the role then the agenda of President Biden is 364 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 5: critically important to continuing to break through glass ceilings that 365 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 5: have yet to be shattered by women and particularly women 366 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 5: of color. I'm in elected office across the country and 367 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:25,199 Speaker 5: we are making that priority as well, so win in 368 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 5: more seats in the Senate, getting to a democratic getting 369 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 5: back to a democratic majority in the House, protecting the 370 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 5: White House, helping to elect. 371 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 4: Governors, women who are running. 372 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 5: For governor's offices as well as mayor offices and other 373 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 5: constitutional officers, and state legislatures. 374 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 3: We are really. 375 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 5: Mainly trying to do all the things to advance representation 376 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 5: and voice of women in a diverse set of women 377 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 5: all over the country as we work to protect a 378 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 5: reproductive freedom and restore fundamental rights for all people in 379 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 5: the US. 380 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: Can we talk about we had some of the anti 381 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: choice Democrats and how are. 382 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 2: You addressing that? I mean, do you support anti choice democrats? 383 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 2: Are you able to run against them? 384 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I know we interviewed someone in Virginia who 385 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: was running against who was primary an anti choice Democrat. 386 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 2: Talk to us about that. 387 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, we're very clear that we only support democratic 388 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 5: pro choice women. We do not have a problem nor 389 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 5: do we shy away from challenging anti choice democrats. It 390 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 5: is so essential to the mission of Emily's List that 391 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 5: there is a share set of values with the American 392 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,719 Speaker 5: people with every candidate that we support, and you know, 393 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 5: consistently over decades and at record levels now, it is 394 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 5: clear that the American people are in favor of women 395 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 5: and families being able to make their reproductive health decisions 396 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 5: with them, between them sales and their doctors. And that 397 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 5: has been the legacy of Emily's Listen, so we were 398 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 5: proud to be supporting las Cherie's aired in Virginia. 399 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 2: Yes, we had her on the podcast. 400 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. 401 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 5: She challenging the last anti choice Democrat who happened to 402 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 5: be a man in Virginia by the name of Joe Morrissey. 403 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 5: She defeated him in that primary, and we are have 404 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 5: been supporting La Cherie in her public service for a 405 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 5: number of years now, and we're proud to be standing 406 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 5: with her this time around as well. What we have 407 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 5: learned over our thirty eight years in operation is that 408 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 5: the way for women to really break through through democratic 409 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 5: primaries in particular is to challenge and to create a 410 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 5: real contrast between the positions of democratic pro choice women 411 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 5: and anti choice democrats. And the way and how we 412 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 5: have gotten to historic representation number in Congress and in 413 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 5: state legislatures for women across the country is you know, 414 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 5: really being in those primaries giving voters a clear contrast 415 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 5: and doing the work and investing, frankly, to help them 416 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 5: to win. 417 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:20,479 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about what it looks like 418 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: in Virginia. Virginia is one term gubernatorial. You can't run 419 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: for reelection, So what does the Virginia gubernatorial look like. 420 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 5: That's a part of the great work that we do 421 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:36,959 Speaker 5: here at emlisis. We are one of the organization, one 422 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 5: of the very few organizations who works to recruit candidates 423 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 5: and help to actually build the pipeline along with all 424 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 5: of the other candidate services and supports that I've talked 425 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 5: with you about thus far, and so helping to create 426 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 5: that bench and pipeline of Democratic pro choice candidates is 427 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 5: really a part of how we see the horizon of 428 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 5: future elections and so sharpening the candidates that Emily's List 429 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 5: is working with. We have been present in a number 430 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 5: of organizations and allies have been present in Virginia. There 431 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 5: are many Democratic candidates, pro choice candidates who I think 432 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 5: are going to be looking to run for governor in 433 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,359 Speaker 5: the state of Virginia, and we're going to be working 434 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 5: to keep our eye on women who are ready and 435 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 5: prepared to engage the Virginia voters and the commonwealth and 436 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 5: talk about their vision for the future. But it's going 437 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 5: to be I think it's going to be a crowded 438 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 5: governor's race. 439 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I do think so. 440 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 5: I think voters are going to have the ability to 441 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 5: make some clear choices around the differences between those candidates. 442 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 6: There still are anti choice Democrats in the party, but 443 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 6: less and less, I mean, are primary in these candidates 444 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 6: a priority. 445 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 5: It definitely is for women in this country who thought 446 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 5: that their reproductive healthcare choices were theirs to make had 447 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 5: right the first time in almost fifty years had a 448 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 5: right taken away from them. You are right to note 449 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 5: that there are still anti abortion democrats, I mean, just 450 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 5: not long ago. It was a third rail issue in 451 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 5: the Democratic Party, I think, particularly because people always thought 452 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 5: that role would always be there. No one ever expected 453 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 5: that a Supreme Court would take a right away from 454 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 5: the entire is a priority for Emily's List and the 455 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 5: candidates that we support is that we put forward candidates 456 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 5: who stand with the will of the majority of people 457 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 5: in this country, and whether that is through a primary 458 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 5: process or leaning heavily in the general election, whether it 459 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 5: starts with candidate recruitment and helping to build a coalition, 460 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 5: a winning coalition around that candidate. We are determined that 461 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 5: we have to do everything that we can to ensure 462 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 5: that we continue to be a representative voice for the 463 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 5: will of the American people, and increasingly the Republican Party 464 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 5: is making sure that people understand that they are anti abortion, 465 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 5: that they want to strip away women's rights, that they 466 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 5: want to have the power and control to make decisions 467 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 5: about people's bodies, their families, and their freedom. Organizations like 468 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 5: Emily's List and the candidates that we support have to 469 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 5: stand in clear contrast to that. 470 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: Tell me about a candidate you're excited about. Oh, my goodness, 471 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: there are so many blots, or give me two or whatever. 472 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,919 Speaker 1: I mean, just somebody who you're just as top of 473 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: mind right now. 474 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, top of mind for me is Prince Georgia's County 475 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 5: Executive Angela also Brooks, who is running in the state 476 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 5: of Maryland to be the next US Senator. In the 477 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,959 Speaker 5: state of Maryland, there are no women currently in the 478 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 5: Maryland Delegation Congression Delegation, not one County executive. Angela also 479 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 5: Brooks has been elected a number of times. She has 480 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 5: a story and a lived experience that I think resonates 481 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 5: in a state of Maryland, and she has just proven 482 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 5: to be a fighter for the people of the state 483 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 5: of Maryland. And to be with her, to campaign with her, 484 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 5: to make phone calls with her, to fundraise with her, 485 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 5: is just a real source of inspiration for me at 486 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 5: this at this moment top of mind. You know, her 487 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 5: daughter is just graduated from high school and he is 488 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 5: getting ready to go to college. And to know that 489 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 5: she is balancing both public service and being a single 490 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:40,400 Speaker 5: parent is another opportunity for the legacy of Emily's List 491 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 5: to really be on display. Where we are saying, too 492 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 5: and saying with women who have a passion for public service, 493 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 5: that their voice matters in the decisions that face this 494 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 5: country and the future and future generations. 495 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: I was hoping you could talk about how hard it 496 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 2: is to get women to run for office. 497 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 4: It's a great topic. 498 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 5: And Molli, you know, I think in the life of 499 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 5: Emily's List the reason why women hesitate to run for 500 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 5: office has changed and evolved. I speak with our founder, 501 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 5: a woman by the name of Ellen Malcolm, who her 502 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 5: along with her like twenty five friends in her basement 503 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 5: thirty eight years ago, decided that they were going to 504 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 5: help women raise money to prove to the democratic system 505 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 5: that was run by men that they could raise the 506 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 5: money to be taken seriously. And that was the greatest 507 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 5: barrier that they identified for women candidates at that time. 508 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 4: We know now in the. 509 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 5: Twenty first century and a year twenty twenty three, money 510 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 5: remains a challenge. There's data and research by the Barbara 511 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 5: Lee Foundation and many others who have done the research 512 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 5: to understand that women get less fundraising investment from people 513 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 5: who would give men the maximum they give women fraction 514 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 5: of that. We also know from those research organizations that 515 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 5: misinformation and disinformation are disproportionately directed towards women and disproportionately 516 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 5: directed towards women of color. We know that the increased 517 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:22,479 Speaker 5: threats of violence and attacks are directed towards women. And 518 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 5: so there is a lot of consideration that women today 519 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 5: have to be willing to take on in order to 520 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 5: run for office, in addition to the fact that it 521 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 5: is so expensive. In the years past, it is men 522 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 5: who would say, you know, I am going to run 523 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 5: for office, and my wife is going to stand by 524 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 5: me and our second gentleman. Actually, we get to see 525 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 5: a very different example. 526 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 4: We get to see a husband. 527 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 5: Who is choosing to stand by his wife as she 528 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 5: chooses to serve the country. We have women like Congresswoman 529 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 5: Katie Porter, who all so is a single mom who 530 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 5: has to make decisions about childcare and think very intensively 531 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 5: about childcare as she is doing the work of representing 532 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 5: her constituency in her district. And so the difficulty that 533 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 5: we face and convincing women to pursue their passion for 534 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 5: public service has gotten much greater as the years have 535 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 5: gone by and the dynamics of our political environment have 536 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 5: shifted and changed. On average, I think the research says 537 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 5: that a woman says no seven times before she actually 538 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 5: is saying yes to running for office. And we know 539 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:42,959 Speaker 5: that there have been occasion where people where men just 540 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 5: sort of wake up and walk down the stairs and 541 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 5: tell America that they want to be president. It is 542 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 5: tough terrain to navigate, but I think the policies that 543 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 5: come forth, the discussions that are able to be had 544 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 5: because of the presence of women and diverse women at 545 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 5: the table, really does move our country forward. 546 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 4: And that's the America that we want to pursue. 547 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. This is so great. I'm so 548 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 2: appreciate having you on. 549 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Molly. We appreciate being a part 550 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 4: of it. 551 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 552 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds 553 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 1: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you 554 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, Please send it to a friend 555 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again thanks for listening.