1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 2: Welcome to Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe, Matthew, and Washington 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 2: headlines are moving today on the debt ceiling proposal unveiled 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: around this time yesterday. As you may remember by Speaker McCarthy. 8 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 3: President Biden, and Senate Democrats waste time. House Republicans are 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,879 Speaker 3: taking action today. I'm proud to announce that we are 10 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 3: introducing the Limit Save Grow Act of twenty twenty three. 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: Enter Senator Joe Manchin. Today, the Democrat from West Virginia, 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 2: thorn in the side of the Biden administration, issues a 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 2: statement applauding Kevin McCarthy for offering his plan and urging 14 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: President Biden to the negotiating table. But the version just 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: outline may still in fact be in flux. Bloomberg's Eric 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 2: Wasason reporting members of the Freedom Cap Becaus are calling 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: for additional work requirements for Medicaid in food stamps. They 18 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: want thirty hours instead of twenty hours. Some moderates bulking 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: at that. So it's unclear exactly what will happen when 20 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: this goes to a vote, which is expected next week. 21 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: Of course, it's unclear what happens with this whole story period. 22 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Intelligence reporting now debt ceiling breach likely avoided, but 23 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: angst is coming. Nathan Dean, the BI senior government analyst, 24 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: writing in a survey of Byside sell Side economists and 25 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: corporate clients conducted the last week of March, a majority 26 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: of respondents believe the US will avoid breaching the debt ceiling, 27 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:42,759 Speaker 2: yet political brinksmanship leading up to an agreement may cause 28 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 2: some market angst. Only eight percent of respondents believe political 29 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: wrangling over the issue would not have an impact on 30 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: the S and P five hundred. How about that thirty 31 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 2: seven percent thinking it would be worse than twenty eleven 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 2: when the S and P five hundred fell at one 33 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: point seventeen percent. President Biden yesterday saying, Hey, in the 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 2: Trump administration, we just passed a clean bill. 35 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 4: Donald Trump seeking to increase the debt limit. While he 36 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 4: was doing what he was doing, he said, quote, I 37 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 4: can't imagine anybody ever even thinking about using the debt 38 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 4: celling as a negotiating wedge. I guess he didn't know 39 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 4: the new Maga Republicans he bred. 40 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 2: You know, we're interested. They're living in an interesting world 41 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: when Joe Biden is quoting Donald Trump when it comes 42 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: to the debt ceiling. And this is where we begin, 43 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: as I mentioned, with a central player in these talks 44 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: in crafting this legislation, Congressman Byron Donald's, the Republican from 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: Florida is with us, and Congressman you're making your first 46 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 2: appearance here on Bloomberg. So I want to welcome you. 47 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: It's great to have you, and I appreciate your time 48 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: with us today on the radio. 49 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 5: It's going to be with you. Thanks for having me. 50 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: Were you in the room for this or reportedly you 51 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 2: were there when the Freedom Caucused asked for additional work 52 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 2: requirement hours for Medicaid food stamps? Is this still a 53 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: plan that's in flux? 54 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 5: So I've been in a lot of rows surrounding that 55 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 5: ceiling package. You know, there are members who want to see, 56 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 5: you know, whether it's twenty four hours or twenty eight 57 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 5: hours in the work the work requirements formula. But by 58 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 5: and large, I think we're gonna We're gonna get that 59 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 5: that worked out, and we're going to move forward with 60 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:23,840 Speaker 5: our package. 61 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 2: Does that give you any sense of where the votes 62 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: are at this point? Does Speaker McCarthy have to eighteen 63 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: for this proposal? 64 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 5: I believe so. I think we're going to get there. 65 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 5: But you know what, it's actually interesting for your listeners, 66 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 5: for everybody in the country. This is actually what democracy 67 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 5: looks like. You know, under the last Congress, Nancy Pelosi 68 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 5: just brought bills to the floor directly out of her office. 69 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 5: Members had no ability or time to really read them 70 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,119 Speaker 5: and understand what was in them. You know, we put 71 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 5: this package out yesterday, We anticipate trying to go to 72 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 5: the floor for a vote on Wednesday, and so that 73 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 5: gives all the members, any American people, frankly, an ability 74 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 5: to read this proposal, digest it, you know, have some 75 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 5: discussion on some of the finer pieces of it. And 76 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 5: I think that's a good thing overall. That was one 77 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 5: of the commitments that we had to the American people, 78 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 5: was a transparent House of Representatives. I'll also add this 79 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 5: entire situation is all created by the Democrats and Joe 80 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 5: Biden when they passed the Yamni bus spending bill right 81 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 5: before Christmas. They could have increased the debt ceiling at 82 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 5: that time, they chose not to. They did not want 83 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 5: to do it, so they could have done it. Then 84 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 5: they didn't want to do it. They wanted to set 85 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 5: up this this brinksmanship, this fight, if you will, around 86 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 5: the dead ceiling. But Republicans are committed to want a 87 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 5: having a common sense, reasonable way to raise a dead 88 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 5: ceiling and be getting the country on a guidepath financially 89 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 5: that we can actually maintain so we can be serious 90 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 5: about our financial outlook going forward. 91 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 2: Well, I want to walk out with you for a 92 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 2: second here, because this is Bloomberg and we're allowed to 93 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 2: do that. Congressman Sorry, Well, you know, it's it's interesting 94 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: when we go back to the beginning of this Congress. 95 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: To your point, the promise was transparency, that we were 96 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 2: going to be done with backroom deals. I remember the 97 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 2: huge level of criticism that Omnibus you mentioned received here, 98 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: and the idea was to go back to regular order, 99 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 2: that this would actually go through committee, that there would 100 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 2: be a real debate here. And it seems like everyone 101 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 2: is asking Speaker McCarthy and Joe Biden to cut a deal. 102 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 2: We spoke earlier with Brendan Boyle says this never came 103 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: through the Budget committee. So how is this different? 104 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 5: Well, it is slightly different because that ceiling is, you know, 105 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 5: it's a different kind of artifice. It touches so many 106 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,559 Speaker 5: aspects of spending overall. But all of the key members, 107 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 5: whether it's Jody Harrington who chairs Budget, they've all been 108 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 5: a part of that process. And like I said, youth 109 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 5: members are going to have five days to review this, 110 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 5: five days. Nancy Pelosi would drop stuff on the floor 111 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 5: in like a day, and if day would mean she 112 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 5: dropped it at eleven fifty nine and we're voting at 113 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 5: ten am, and for Nancy Pelosi, that was a day. 114 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 5: So this is a very open process. Again. Members are 115 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 5: gonna have an opportunity to read it. Adjustments can be made, 116 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 5: members can comment on it. We've I've already had many 117 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 5: discussions with members on the floor about this. It's really 118 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 5: been a deliberative process. And even though it wasn't in 119 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 5: the actual Budget committee per se, under Kevin McCarthy's leadership, 120 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 5: members of every portion of our conference have been in 121 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 5: the room discussing the finer points, what they would like 122 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 5: to see what they would not like to see. It's 123 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 5: actually been a very collaborative process. 124 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 2: Has it been collaborative with Democrats as well? Because they 125 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: tell us that they're not part of that conversation. 126 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 5: Well, I think the first thing is we wanted to 127 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 5: get to a position as Republicans who have the majority 128 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 5: in charge. But now the Democrats have an opportunity to 129 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 5: comment as well. If they have great ideas in any 130 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 5: ways that we can actually get our spending down, of 131 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 5: course we want to see those and if there's agreement 132 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 5: on those, that could become a part of what the 133 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 5: House package is. But now that's on them to read it. 134 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 5: I would tell my Democrat colleagues at least they get 135 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 5: a chance to read it and digest that. When we 136 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 5: were in the minority, we had no ability to do that. 137 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 2: Understood. Does that mean if there are five days to review, 138 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: that you expect to vote on Monday? 139 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 5: Congressman, I would anticipate Monday, I think more likely is 140 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 5: looking like Wednesday. We're actually we're not back till Tuesday. 141 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 5: I would anticipate Wednesday is the day to vote. But again, look, 142 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 5: we're doing something that is really important in this package. 143 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 5: So far, as it exists. We're talking about capping discretionary 144 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 5: spending at twenty twenty two levels. To put this in 145 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 5: context for people who want to caps, when Barack Obama 146 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 5: pat put out his last budget, his spending projection in 147 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 5: discretionary spending his last year twenty four actually puts US 148 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 5: in line with that budget. So my question for Democrats 149 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 5: is you disagreed with President Obama's budget lines from twenty 150 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 5: fifteen twenty sixteen, because that's where it puts discretionary spending. 151 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 5: It puts US in line with that. Well. 152 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 2: Some have suggested, though the Congressman, before you go to 153 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 2: item two and we can pick through these, we've got time, 154 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: that the difference here is that so much has been 155 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: taken off the table, beginning with entitlements and any number 156 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 2: of other levels of spending, that we're dealing with such 157 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: a small piece of the pie that going back to 158 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 2: twenty two levels would require draconian cuts to actually eliminate 159 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 2: full programs. Is that not true? 160 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 5: No, I disagree with draconi and what we're doing. If 161 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 5: you go back to twenty two levels, we're really just 162 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 5: getting back to pre COVID nineteen pandemic spending levels, in 163 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 5: non defense discretion but. 164 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 2: Only for a portion of the budget though. 165 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 5: Right, that's a portion of the budget that is correct. 166 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 5: But you got to understand we rejuiced spending on Capitol 167 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 5: Hill because of COVID nineteen. Everybody knows this. Now that 168 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 5: the pandemic is over, Joe Biden acknowledges the pandemic is over, 169 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 5: it doesn't it make sense to actually get back to 170 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 5: pre pandemic spending levels. Spending and we borrowed a bunch 171 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 5: of money to address the concerns of the American people. 172 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 5: Now that the crisis has passed, we have to actually 173 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 5: get back to fiscal order and the twenty twenty two levels, 174 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 5: which push non defense discretionary down and actually lower our 175 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 5: spending baseline is the appropriate and sensible remedy for the 176 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 5: nation spending soundness going forward. One other thing I want 177 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 5: to point on this. It's been widely reported about what 178 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 5: happens about dead ceiling overall and will be default in 179 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 5: our debt. And I believe the aid, the credit agencies, 180 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 5: the rating agencies have always said, listen, the political side 181 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 5: of Washington, the legislative branch, the executive, they have to 182 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 5: have a pathway to actually raise our debt ceiling and 183 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 5: be responsible with it. But they also say that Congress 184 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 5: and the White House have to actually be serious about 185 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 5: the trajectory of spending, Like the trajectory of spending that 186 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 5: we're on. This plan gets us serious. I think this 187 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 5: is something that the rating agencies would like to see. 188 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer says it can't pass the Senate. What happens 189 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 2: at that point to say the bill does pass the 190 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: House with two eighteen, it can't get through the Senate. 191 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 2: Does that put Kevin McCarthy and Joe Biden at the table? 192 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 5: Well, that sounds very lazy from Chuck Schumer. I don't 193 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 5: even think he and his members have even had a 194 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 5: discussion on any of this stuff. You know, don't just 195 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 5: look at the House. You know, you have one hundred 196 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 5: United States Senators. They get elected statewide. Chuck Schumer knew 197 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 5: this was coming to where's his work product, where's his plan? 198 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: Well, the House was taking a lead on this though, right, 199 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 2: that was the idea for the Republican majority to lead this. 200 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 5: If you talk to senators, senators always believe they're always 201 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 5: in the lead. You know, let's put that to the 202 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 5: side for a moment. But again, the House is now 203 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 5: coming forward with the proposal. We think we're going to 204 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 5: go ahead and vote that out on Wednesday. That's a 205 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 5: good thing to do. Well, Now, Chuck Schumer, what are 206 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 5: you going to do where Senate Democrats and Senate Republicans. 207 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 5: What's their strategies, what's their plan? Don't just sit there 208 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 5: be innocent bystanders, because frankly, that's being derelict in your duty. 209 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 5: That's what I would say to Chuck Schumer. Second thing 210 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 5: I'll say to Chuck Schumer is if you have a plan, 211 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 5: or if Chuck Schumer has the position of the White 212 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 5: House and Joe Biden, I'm saying, we're just gonna do 213 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 5: a clean debt ceiling, no negotiations, then pass it. I 214 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 5: don't think Chuck Schumer has the votes for those. 215 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: Who are questioning the promise of regular order. Congressman, is 216 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: this the new version you know, five days but bypassed 217 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: the committees? 218 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 5: No, I don't think so. I think the debt ceiling, 219 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 5: you know, right, wrong or indifferent. This is not just 220 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 5: a regular policy bill. This is not the regular appropriations process. 221 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 5: We're talking about the you know, essentially the nation's credit cards. 222 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 5: A little different dynamic what we have always committed to. 223 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 5: What you're going to see is that when it comes 224 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 5: to a budget resolution from a Chairman Arrington's committee and 225 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 5: the actual total appropriation bills, House Republicans are committed to that, 226 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 5: the American people are going to see that. We're gonna 227 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 5: have a deliberative process there. Udiciary Committee they met yesterday. 228 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 5: They had a markup that went to one thirty in 229 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 5: the morning on our border security package. That's moving, so 230 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 5: regular order is alive and well. Our view on the 231 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 5: debt ceiling package is that is a little different than 232 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 5: the common spending bills, the National Defense Authorization Act, the 233 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 5: Farm Bill, et cetera. All those things are going to 234 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 5: be moving through the committee process like they should. 235 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: Can you tell our listeners and viewers, Congressmen that not 236 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 2: only will we not default on our debt, but this 237 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 2: will be wrapped up before those credit agencies you mentioned 238 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 2: downgrade US debt. 239 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 5: Well, look, my commitment and the commitment of House Republicans 240 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 5: is to not default. We are going to increase the 241 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,719 Speaker 5: dead limit, but we're going to do it responsibly. That's 242 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 5: what I'm going to commit to. We are going to 243 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 5: be responsible, responsible about this, But I would my question 244 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 5: is for the White House. Are they going to be 245 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 5: derelict and basically stomp their feet and not negotiate, because 246 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 5: if they choose not to negotiate, it will be the 247 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 5: White House, it will be Joe Biden will lead our 248 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 5: nation into default. House Republicans have been working on this 249 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 5: for almost three months now, and if we remember, it's 250 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 5: Speaker McCarthy that's been reaching out to the White House, 251 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 5: not the other way around, trying to meet, trying to 252 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 5: find a way a path forward, and Joe Biden has 253 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 5: been reluctant. He's been refusing. So you know when I 254 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 5: tell people that this is all by design that Joe 255 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 5: Biden wants prismanship, the facts are there. Like I said 256 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 5: at the top, he could have increased the debt ceiling 257 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 5: when they did the Omnibus of spending bill last Christmas. 258 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 5: They could have done it. He chose not to. That 259 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:35,439 Speaker 5: was on purpose. 260 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 2: I only have a minute left. You made some news 261 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 2: recently by endorsing Donald Trump for president instead of your 262 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: own governor in the state of Florida. Why not Ron DeSantis? 263 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 5: Well, look, I think when you make decisions like this, 264 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 5: it's really not about Governor DeSantis. It's my viewpoint that 265 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 5: considering with where we are on the world stage, China 266 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 5: is more aggressive, Russia is more aggressive. You have China 267 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 5: trying to negotiate around the US dollar with Brazil about oil. 268 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 2: So it's a foreign policy decision on your cass. 269 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 5: That's a dangerous situation there. Secondarily, we have a lot 270 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 5: of cleaning up in the federal agencies that must occur. 271 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 5: We already know that elements in the FBI, in the 272 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 5: Department of Justice, in CDC have actually suppressed information from 273 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 5: the American people and have four social media companies to 274 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 5: the press information. We need somebody who hit the ground 275 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 5: running on day one, and that's Donald Trump. 276 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 2: Congress from Byron Donald's Republican from Florida. Thanks for your 277 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 2: time and insights today on Bloomberg and don't be a stranger. 278 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 2: Come back and see us as we figure this out. 279 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: We've got a lot to learn still on the debt ceiling. 280 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: And will assemble the panel for their view next. This 281 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 2: is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. 282 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 2: Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern. 283 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, 284 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: and the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live 285 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: on Amazon Alexa from our flanksh New York station. Just 286 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 287 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 2: The headline on the Terminal Mansion praises GOP's McCarthy just 288 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 2: what Joe Biden wanted to read when he logged on 289 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 2: this morning. Slams Biden on debt ceiling bill, and that's 290 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 2: pretty true. The statement doesn't leave much to the imagination. 291 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: Quote this is Joe Manchin, the Democrat. I applaud Speaker 292 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 2: McCarthy for putting forward a proposal that would prevent default 293 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 2: and rein in federal spending. While I do not agree 294 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 2: with everything proposed, the fact of the matter is it 295 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: is the only bill actually moving through Congress that would 296 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 2: prevent defaults. He goes on to urge President Biden to 297 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: sit down and negotiate. Sounds a lot like Mitt Romney 298 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 2: when Bloomberg talked to him today on Capitol Hills. 299 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 6: No question but that what Kevin McCarthy has announced is 300 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 6: if it's able to be passed, well put the ball 301 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 6: back on the administration's court, which is, look, you have 302 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 6: you have branches that became republican all right that the 303 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 6: House became Republican. The White House has to recognize that 304 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 6: in order to get something done, both parties have to 305 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 6: come to the table. And for the White House to say, no, 306 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 6: we're not going to negotiate, it's simply irresponsible. 307 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: Romney talking with Bloomberg just about an hour ago on 308 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 2: Capitol Hill, will be bringing you fresh sound as it 309 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 2: emerges here again with some wrinkles still in the plan 310 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: that has already been presented. The ink is barely dry, 311 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: and the Freedom Caucus is asking for some changes here. 312 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 2: Later in the game, they had already demanded a revocation 313 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: of the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act, now asking for 314 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: more hours in work requirements for Medicaid and food stamps. 315 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: Let's assemble the panel get into this. Rick Davis is here, 316 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: of course, Bloomberg Politics contributor, Republican analyst, joined today by 317 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: Drew Littman, policy director at Brownstein Hyatt former chief of 318 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 2: Staff Senator Al Frankin. It's great to have both of 319 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: you here. Rick, you just heard our deep dive with 320 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: Byron Donald's and changes still in the works here. Do 321 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 2: we feel like Kevin McCarthy has the votes to make 322 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 2: this get through the House. 323 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 7: Well, it's certainly excuse me, it certainly seems like he's 324 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 7: lining them up. I mean our early indications. You know, 325 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 7: the T Johnson, the congressman who heads the Main Street Caucus, 326 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 7: which is a pretty substantial caucus. You know, almost seventy 327 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 7: members came out for it, but he's still got issues problem. 328 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 7: Solvers Caucus, one of the other five families that make 329 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 7: up the Republican Caucus, they presented their own plan, so 330 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 7: it's not clear whether their members will step in lockstep, 331 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 7: you know, behind this proposal. 332 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: So he's still got some wood to chop. 333 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 7: And I think that's what we're hearing from Republicans all over, 334 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 7: which is we wish him luck, we want him to succeed, 335 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:36,719 Speaker 7: good luck, but you got to come back to us 336 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 7: with two hundred and eighteen votes. And there's no sweat 337 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 7: off our back in the Senate if you spend a 338 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 7: lot of time trying it, because you know, we're we're 339 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 7: ultimately going to get a cut on it whatever passes 340 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 7: the House. So there's a lot of easy responses to 341 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 7: this and hopes for you know, the best for Speaker McCarthy. 342 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 7: But at the end of the day, the onus is 343 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 7: still on him. 344 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 2: Jre Lipman, welcome back to Bloomberg. It's great to have you. 345 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: I'm curious your thoughts today, now that we've heard from 346 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,719 Speaker 2: Joe Manchion, now that we just spoke with Byron Donald's 347 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 2: to get his take on things, do you get a 348 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 2: sense that the votes are here, that Republicans in the 349 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 2: House can actually get this done? And I'll ask you 350 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 2: if not there, if we don't see two eighteen next week, 351 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 2: does Joe Biden still stay on his end of Pennsylvania 352 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 2: Avenue and talks do not begin. 353 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 8: I think that McCarthy probably can get two hundred and 354 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 8: eighteen votes. It's always easier when you're voting for something 355 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 8: that is still essentially a messaging bill. It's not going 356 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 8: to be enacted into law. And it doesn't really make 357 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 8: or call for very specific spending cuts, certainly not in 358 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 8: domestic discretionary programs. It calls for gigantic aggregate cuts, but 359 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 8: it doesn't specify how those cuts are to be made. 360 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 8: So it's like voting for it's almost like a sense 361 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 8: of the House resolution. It's not binding, it's not going 362 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 8: to make any changes. So I think, yeah, Speaker probably 363 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 8: can get to and eighteen votes for that. I think 364 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 8: Biden has very little reason to negotiate with McCarthy. We've 365 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 8: always been able to raise the debt limit. Republicans want 366 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 8: to block a debt limit, want to block government from 367 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 8: raising the debt limit. They're the ones on the hook 368 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 8: for this. Republicans have suffered every time they initiated a 369 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 8: government shut down, which they always thought they were in 370 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 8: the right, they always wound up losing. They'll lose this 371 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 8: time too well. 372 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: Of course, the default is a heck of a lot 373 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: worse than a shutdown. Rick, what do you think of 374 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 2: this regular order going out the window so quick in 375 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 2: this Republican majority? Was it fair of me to ask 376 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 2: Byron Donald's about this? He says, well, we gave people 377 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: five days to read it. That's five more days than 378 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi gave us. 379 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, it's an interesting argument he's making about transparency. Right, 380 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 7: it's not regular order, And he did sort of take 381 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 7: a pass at regular order where he said, you know, 382 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 7: Congressman Arrington's committee will report out a budget. I'm not 383 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 7: sure Congressman Arrington has got that memo yet, because there's 384 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 7: been no work done. From what anybody can tell right 385 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 7: now on producing a budget which would have actually given 386 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 7: you the kind of cuts, the kind of policies that 387 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 7: you want to enact that would go into this kind 388 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 7: of a proposal, because it's not just a debt limit. 389 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 9: He's right. 390 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,680 Speaker 7: Congress McDonald's right saying, Hey, a debt limit all on 391 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,719 Speaker 7: its own is different, right, and it doesn't really have 392 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 7: to go through regular order. 393 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: He's right. 394 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 10: But then he. 395 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 2: Included, like they're cutting the deal the highest discretionary budget 396 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: of the federal government, and that he does go through 397 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 2: regular order. So he's kind of having it both ways 398 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 2: on that one. You know, he at one point was 399 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: in the race for Speaker, albeit reluctantly. Drew Littman, have 400 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: we given up on transparency on Capitol Hill? 401 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 11: You know? 402 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 8: I started off working on Capitol Hill in nineteen eighty 403 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,880 Speaker 8: nine and a House Budget committee slot Leon Panetta, who 404 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 8: was the chairman. Of course, he went on to be 405 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 8: White Host Chief of Staff and Defense Secretary. The committee 406 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 8: was running very rigorously and Panetta expected people to come 407 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 8: to him with cuts. There was always a proposal, like 408 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 8: the Republicans have now to simply limit the discretionary spending 409 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 8: to the previous year's level. And not allow for inflation increases. 410 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 8: It sounds like a way to make a painless way 411 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 8: to make cuts, but those ideas always got rejected because 412 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 8: they're not serious. You have to specify what you're going 413 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 8: to cut, and that budget resolution would be the vehicle 414 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 8: for that. I don't think we're going to see one. 415 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 2: Rick I asked Byron Donald's about his endorsement of Donald Trump. 416 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 2: It has become a big story here as Ron De 417 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 2: Santis came to Washington, d C. To raise money and 418 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 2: get endorsements, and it turns out that, you know, a 419 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,679 Speaker 2: good chunk of the Florida delegation at that very moment 420 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 2: decided to go with Donald Trump. Jip Roy did as 421 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 2: well from Texas earlier endorsing Ron de Santis. Even though 422 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 2: the current seems to be moving in a different direction here, 423 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 2: What does this tell you about the potential candidacy of 424 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 2: the Florida governor when members of his own congressional delegation 425 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: are looking to mar A Lago instead of the state House. 426 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 7: Yeah, they're going to break up in the Republican caucus 427 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 7: along different lines of endorsements. And really, my experience in 428 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 7: presidential politics is congressional endorsements are not even worth the 429 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 7: paper that they're written on. You know, they really don't 430 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 7: move votes in a primary, and so I really wonder 431 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 7: why Ron Desantians would put himself at risk of looking 432 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 7: weak by going up to Capitol Hill fill in a 433 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 7: room full of members, half of which aren't going to 434 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 7: endorse him, right, And so it creates this narrative that 435 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 7: maybe he's not really on top of running for president, 436 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 7: and that's much more disturbing to a campaign than like 437 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 7: whether or not you get a certain member from your 438 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 7: old district. I mean, John mccainn has such a horrible 439 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 7: relationship with his own caucus in Arizona that you know 440 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 7: he would publicly reject their endorsement if they wanted to 441 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 7: give him one. So I'm used a little different take 442 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 7: on this stuff, but it did appear a little that 443 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 7: he would hold this kind of thing. I mean, why 444 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 7: come to Washington when the actions in Iowa, New Hampshire, 445 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 7: South Carolina, and Florida. I mean, it really doesn't make 446 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 7: any sense. 447 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 2: And of course he has been visiting those places, Drew, 448 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 2: but I wonder if this speaks to the trajectory of 449 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 2: that potential campaign. To Rick's point, those endorsements may not matter, 450 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: but does it speak to the wider momentum that Donald 451 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 2: Trump is enjoying. 452 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 8: I think it does. But I also want to second 453 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 8: something Rick said the first thing I look for. It 454 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 8: sounds like the first thing he looks for in a 455 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,719 Speaker 8: Nason presidential campaign is a sense that they know how 456 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 8: to operate tactically, and DeSantis really is falling down on that. 457 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 8: You can't have a meeting one on one with the 458 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 8: congressman and then have him walk after the room and 459 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 8: say he's endorsing the other candidate. That's I mean, that's 460 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 8: an awful setback, that's not properly advanced. And the thing 461 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 8: that Desantus is getting the most pressed for now nationally 462 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 8: is fighting with Disney. That is a losing battle. He 463 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 8: seems like he's not ready for prime time. 464 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 2: You still think he's gonna run record, Is that not 465 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: a sure thing? 466 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:07,760 Speaker 7: Well, he's sure raised a lot of money, and he's 467 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 7: sure running a lot of ads, and he's sure getting 468 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 7: around to a lot of states. But yeah, he'll run. 469 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 7: There's no indication that he's gonna chicken out. I think 470 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 7: he's braced for an onslaught like Trump is giving him now, 471 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 7: so that's nothing new. Nobody likes it, but they got 472 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 7: to go through it if they were going to get 473 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 7: the nomination. So I don't think I've seen anything that 474 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 7: indicates anything other than what we've been talking about, which 475 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 7: is a guy who's never run for president is kind 476 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 7: of learning the hard way. His team is not really 477 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 7: presidential material. They've not gone through many of these things before, 478 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 7: and so you know, it's it's gonna look like a 479 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 7: little bit of ugly before it starts getting any traction. 480 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 2: A little bit of ugly, according to Rick Davis. Drew 481 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 2: Littman with us as well our panel for today on 482 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Sound On. We're going to have more with the 483 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: panel next, and we'll also talk to Bloomberg's Jordan Faber 484 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 2: on this day that Joe Biden's pick to be the 485 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 2: next Labor secretary runs into heavy duty headwinds on Capitol Hill. 486 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 2: The hearing for potential secretary Sue happening this morning. We'll 487 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 2: have more on that ahead. 488 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 489 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 490 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app. Or listen on 491 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 492 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 2: The nominees aren't coming that easily for President Biden. First 493 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 2: it was the FCC, then it was the FAA, and 494 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: now it's labor. Remember the last time we talked to 495 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 2: Marty Walsh, it was his exit interview, his last day 496 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 2: on the job. He talked about the benefits of having 497 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,640 Speaker 2: a deputy who could step in and take his job. 498 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 2: That would be Julie Sue, the Deputy Secretary of Labor, 499 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 2: and today the big hearing for her nomination on Capitol Hill. 500 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 2: This on the Senate side, of course, and shairing the 501 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: committee Senator Bernie Sanders, Julie. 502 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 12: Sue should be confirmed as our Secretary of Labor because 503 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 12: she has spent her life fighting for those working families 504 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 12: and they need her. 505 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: Now, okay, you would expect that ranking member on the Health, Education, 506 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 2: Labor and Pensions Committee, Bill Cassidy does not agree. 507 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 13: Studying his politics aside, Marty Walsh had significant experience in 508 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 13: negotiations and managing organizations. That experience is important, But now, 509 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 13: with one hundred and fifty labor contracts expiring this year, 510 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 13: the potential of replacing him with someone who has a 511 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 13: history of bias and no direct experience handling labor disputes 512 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 13: should be concerning to all. 513 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: So you're an ol Marty joining us for a little 514 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 2: perspective before we get back to our panelis Bloomberg White 515 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: House reporter Jordan Fabian's good to see Jordan, Good to 516 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: see your two just for coming back in. This is 517 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 2: the third time around here? Is is this going to 518 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 2: end the way the other two did? 519 00:26:54,840 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 9: It's not looking good for Julie Sue. She has managed to, 520 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 9: you know, not I wouldn't say, make a lot of enemies, 521 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 9: but she's not really convinced a lot of people that 522 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 9: you know, she should be confirmed, especially on the Republican side, 523 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 9: and so then she's gonna need to rely on all Democrats. 524 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 9: And there is Joe Manchin out there who has reportedly 525 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 9: expressed concern about her nomination to the White House. And 526 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 9: the other wild card is Christen Cinema, who's been you know, 527 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 9: pro industry figure in the Senate and so. 528 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:30,800 Speaker 2: But won't show her cards. 529 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 9: Won't show her cards and doesn't show her cards typically. 530 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 9: But she's really the one to watch if she joins 531 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,959 Speaker 9: Joe Manchin. This nominee is basically. 532 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 2: Done Feinstein's not making things any easier not being here, 533 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 2: of course, But there was a lot of talk today 534 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 2: about corruption in California. This is where she came from, right, 535 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 2: essentially their labor secretary, I think they call it commissioner 536 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 2: out there about the use of COVID funding that was 537 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: you know, badly abused, as we saw in a lot 538 00:27:59,040 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 2: of states. 539 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: Right. 540 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 9: So there's two main things that critics have seized on 541 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 9: in Julius Sue's record. One is what you mentioned, Joe, 542 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 9: the millions and millions of dollars in COVID relief funds 543 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 9: where you know, fraudulently went out basically, you know, fraudulent 544 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 9: claims were dispersed. Also, unemployment insurance, the extra unemployment insurance 545 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:24,479 Speaker 9: which her department oversaw, that went out to a lot 546 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 9: of people who apparently shouldn't have gotten it, And so 547 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 9: critics have seized on that. The other thing is her 548 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 9: views on labor rules surrounding the gig economy, so Uber, Lift, Door, Dash, 549 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 9: those app based services. She was a supporter of a 550 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 9: rule that would have made it harder for those companies 551 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 9: to keep their workers as independent contractors and easier for 552 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 9: them to become employees with full benefits. That's something the 553 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 9: industry didn't want, and so their allies have been very 554 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 9: vocal in opposing Julie Sue and it's made traction among 555 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 9: Republicans in Congress. That's one of the top things they 556 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 9: cite in opposing her nomination. Do we know when we 557 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 9: get a vote on this or is that not clear? 558 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 9: It's not clear yet. I mean, they're gonna need to 559 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 9: see first how things go and committee, right, if she 560 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 9: can't get out of committee, then the process is essentially over, 561 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 9: and so we'll have to wait and see. 562 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: You know. 563 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 9: Usually it's maybe a week or two when they hold 564 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 9: a vote, but if they don't have the votes, they 565 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 9: won't hold a vote. They'll just pull her back or 566 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 9: ask her to withdraw that on her own. 567 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 2: So absolutely, Jordan, thank you. It's great to see you 568 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 2: helping us set the stage here for our panel. Jordan 569 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 2: Fabian Bloomberg White House Reporter. You can always find his work, 570 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: of course on the terminal. And Rick Davis is back 571 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 2: with us along with Drew Littman. Now our panel with 572 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 2: insights here. Unclear exactly what's going to happen with this one, Rick, 573 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 2: but it's not looking great for this White House. What 574 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 2: happens if a third nominee goes down. 575 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 7: Well, look, I mean I think this, you know, is 576 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 7: going to be a process that Biden administration and Logan say, 577 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 7: we got to build more consensus before we throw people 578 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 7: up there. I mean, look, he's got they've got people 579 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 7: like John Tester we haven't talked about yet, who's going 580 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 7: to have a really tough reelection, who you know, isn't 581 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 7: going to walk the plank here. And part of the 582 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 7: problem on this one is it's worth pointing out Republicans 583 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 7: and Democrats both liked Marty Walsh. I mean, he's a 584 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 7: hard actor. Also, Yeah, he had a lot of experience, 585 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 7: and he did well on Capitol Hill with members, and 586 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 7: so I think there's an attitude like, give us somebody 587 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 7: like him back, you know, we don't want to. We 588 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 7: don't want to have somebody who doesn't have the kind 589 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 7: of experience and gravitas that Marty had. So it's part 590 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 7: of their success with Marty Walsh is one of the 591 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 7: reasons why they're having such a hard time, you know, 592 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 7: with the Sue nomination. 593 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 1: Drew. 594 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 2: One of the knocks here that Rick is alluding to 595 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,440 Speaker 2: is that she has no experience negotiating major labor deals, 596 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 2: with one hundred and fifty apparently contracts up for renewal 597 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 2: this year. According to Bill Cassidy, she doesn't have the 598 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: experience that Marty Walsh had as a labor leader as 599 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 2: the mayor of Boston. Is there some truth to that. 600 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 8: Literally, yes, But I think she apprenticed under Walsh, and 601 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,479 Speaker 8: she should be able to do that. She's surrounded by 602 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 8: hyper competent people. I think one problem that she had 603 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 8: is that some of the most important issues, like the 604 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 8: gig economy issues, they're simply new to senators. I've talked 605 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 8: to senators about these issues. Some of them only have 606 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 8: the vaguest idea of what they're about, and that makes 607 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 8: it hard to suss out people's positions. I don't know 608 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 8: how important the gay economy is in West Virginia, but 609 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 8: it makes it hard to anticipate. This isn't classic labor 610 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 8: versus management stuff. Makes it hard to know where people 611 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 8: are going to go. 612 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 5: You know. 613 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 2: One of the things, as we discussed with the Jordan Rick, 614 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 2: that we're hearing a lot about in the hearing today 615 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 2: is the EDD the California Employment Development Department, with a 616 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: lot of folks who unlawfully exploited pandemic unemployment assistance and 617 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 2: got a lot of money that they were not due. 618 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 2: This is something that happened all over the country, though. 619 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 2: Is that a fair attack on this nominee. 620 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 7: Yeah, just because it happened everywhere else doesn't mean that 621 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 7: she escapes any public scrutiny about the tenure she had. 622 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 7: So yeah, I mean she's got to answer those questions. 623 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 7: She'll do that today in the hearings, and I think 624 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 7: that they'll be, as I understand it, a number of 625 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 7: important follow up questions that members are going to have 626 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 7: her come by and visit them one on one, which 627 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 7: includes the aforementioned You know John Tester who said he's 628 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 7: gonna sit down with her before he makes a final decision. 629 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 7: But that usually isn't a good indication of public support 630 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 7: when you're going to withhold that until you get to, 631 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 7: you know, have that star chamber moment. 632 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 2: So, Drew, does this nominee fail? 633 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 8: It's on the razor's edge. I will say that if 634 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 8: Tester's vote is decisive, he'll got to confirm her. 635 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: Interesting, what do you think, Rick, is this da No? 636 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 5: Look? 637 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 7: I think they got a shot on goal on this. 638 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 7: If she overperforms in the hearing, hearings matter, they can 639 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 7: be determinative to senators. They listen, and if she impresses 640 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 7: Joe Manchin, Christen Cinnemon in the process of seeing her 641 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 7: through that hearing, you know there there could be some 642 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,280 Speaker 7: new momentum for her. But if she doesn't, it's probably doomed. 643 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 2: Rick Davis, Drew Littman, many thanks for a great conversation 644 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 2: and a smart panel. Hearings Matter. I love Rick Davis. 645 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,000 Speaker 2: We'll do this again, of course tomorrow with our panel. 646 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 2: I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. Speaking of the edd, Bill 647 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 2: Cassidy was so impressed by this part of the story 648 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 2: that he took to rapping in the hearing room. That's 649 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 2: next on Bloomberg. You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound on podcast. 650 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 2: Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern on. 651 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and 652 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on 653 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say 654 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 655 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: We talked earlier about President Biden's nominee for Labor Secretary 656 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 2: Julie Sue's hearing on Capitol Hill today. It happened before 657 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 2: the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee, in which 658 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: ranking member Senator Bill Cassidy, the Republican, seized on a 659 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 2: case from California. This is, of course, where Julie Sue 660 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 2: was at one time Labor Commissioner. With this whole idea 661 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 2: of misuse of COVID funds becoming a major problem out there, 662 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 2: and it all came down to a guy by the 663 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 2: name of Fontrelle Antonio Baynes the case of Nuke Bisle. 664 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 2: He's a rapper, Nuke Bizzle, who won lawfully. According to 665 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 2: the Justice Department, exploited the pandemic unemployment Assistance provisions of 666 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 2: the CARES Act. This all happened in California's Employment Development Department. 667 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 2: They call it the EDD. Here's Bill Cassil. 668 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 13: Under missue fraud in California was rampant rapper Nuke Bizle. 669 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 13: There he is was arrested, pled guilty, and ordered to 670 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,880 Speaker 13: pay seven hundred and five thousand dollars in restitution after 671 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 13: posting a music video bragging about how easy it was 672 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 13: defraud the EDED program. 673 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 2: This is a real story. He actually wrote a song 674 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 2: and made a video about his thievery from the California 675 00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: Employment Development Department. 676 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 1: The E D. D. 677 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 2: And Bill Cassidy, well, he knows the lyrics to that rap. 678 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,600 Speaker 13: The lyrics include quote, I've done got rich off of 679 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,479 Speaker 13: Ed dight hit no more licks because of d D. Yeah, 680 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 13: just last night I was selling ps and I just 681 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 13: woke up to three hundred gens. 682 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 9: This is what it really Yeah, I was, and I said, we'll. 683 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 5: Go to the record. 684 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 13: My interpretation is three hundred Jesus three hundred thousand dollars correct. 685 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 13: But he was ordered to pay over seven hundred g's 686 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,720 Speaker 13: back in restitution. The rapper was not held accountable because 687 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 13: of Miss Sue's oversight, but because he publicly admitted to 688 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 13: his crime on a rap video. 689 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 2: It's quite a video to see that there's stealing envelopes 690 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 2: from mailboxes, throwing one hundred dollars bills around. It's all 691 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: about the E D D. 692 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 9: Unbelievable, lable. 693 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 11: Nuke biz. 694 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 2: Go to and Bill Cassidy, I see a collapse on 695 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 2: the way. Tayley Lines is up. Next hour two starts 696 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 2: right now. 697 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg sound on podcast catch us 698 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the 699 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or listening on 700 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,160 Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts. 701 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 2: Kayley, it's good to see you. We're amazingly today talking 702 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 2: about the debt ceiling. 703 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 14: You don't say. 704 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 2: Even on this day of SpaceX. Well it is four 705 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 2: to twenty, so we got to get through this somehow, 706 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 2: still got your blue check? I haven't looked yet. 707 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,240 Speaker 14: Oh, I forgot. 708 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 2: The day the blue checks were supposed to go away. 709 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 2: The rocket was supposed to go up. That didn't happen. 710 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 14: Ocheck's still there. 711 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 2: The blue check was supposed to go in, and that 712 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 2: didn't happen either. Same here. I'm daring Elon Musk to 713 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 2: remove it, though, because I don't want people to think 714 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 2: I'm paying for it, you know what I mean. 715 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 14: This is a good point you now have to consider. 716 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 2: So a couple of wrinkles on the debt ceiling. Here 717 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 2: of some great reporting today, of course from Bloomberg, just 718 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 2: embedded with the lawmakers on Capitol Hill. One of them, 719 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,959 Speaker 2: Eric Watson, of course, one of our congressional reporters, says 720 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 2: the Freedom Caucus is making a move on trying to 721 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 2: tweak this package further, even though it was quote unquote 722 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 2: unfailed yesterday asking for additional hours of work requirements for 723 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 2: Medicaid and food stamps. This after demanding that the IRA 724 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 2: be revoked. It is giving us the sense that this 725 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 2: is not fully baked. 726 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 15: Yeah, this done deal isn't done yet, and we have 727 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 15: to keep in mind we have talked at length about 728 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 15: how whatever the House passes is going to die in 729 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,479 Speaker 15: the Senate either way, but there's a question of whether 730 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 15: or not it can even die in the House potentially 731 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 15: if McCarthy can rally the two hundred and eighteen votes 732 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 15: he needs around this definitely still a moving target, and 733 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 15: when the Speaker wants to vote next week, there's a 734 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 15: question of can he make that happen and what does 735 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 15: the measure they actually vote on ultimately look like. 736 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 2: With us last hour, Congressman Byron Donald's, the Republican from Florida, 737 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 2: says likely Wednesday, and he believes, while they're not there yet, 738 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,760 Speaker 2: that McCarthy will have two hundred and eighteen votes. Bloomberg 739 00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 2: asked Mitt Romney today about the prospect of engaging in 740 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 2: negotiations over all of this, and of course Joe Biden 741 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,320 Speaker 2: has yet to sit down again with Kevin McCarthy. 742 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:13,879 Speaker 1: Here's what he said. 743 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 6: There's no question, but what Kevin McCarthy has announced is 744 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,399 Speaker 6: if it's able to be passed, well, put the ball 745 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 6: back on the administration's court, which is, look, you have 746 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 6: you have branches that became Republican, all right, that the 747 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 6: House became Republican. The White House has to recognize that 748 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,359 Speaker 6: in order to get something done, both parties have to come. 749 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 1: To the tall. 750 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:39,439 Speaker 2: Elections have consequences, says the senator from Utah. We want 751 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 2: to talk to the ranking member on the House Budget 752 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 2: Committee about. 753 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 1: All of this. 754 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 2: I haven't heard from Brendan Boyle in a bit, who's, 755 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 2: of course, well supposed to be in the center of 756 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 2: this whole thing, but they bypassed the Budget Committee. So 757 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 2: he's waiting to find out along with everybody else. Congressman 758 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 2: Brendan Boyle, welcome back to Bloomberg. 759 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 10: Always a pleasure to be with you. 760 00:38:58,520 --> 00:38:58,680 Speaker 5: Well. 761 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 2: House Republicans are out with their proposal here for the 762 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 2: debt limit and the budget. I don't know if you've 763 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 2: had a chance to pick through the bill yet, but 764 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 2: you were quoted as calling it a legislative Frankenstein, what 765 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 2: does that mean? 766 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 10: Well, if you take a look at it, it's really, 767 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 10: aside from raising the debt ceiling by less than a year, 768 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 10: it's basically a hodgepodge of all these different rather unrelated 769 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:27,320 Speaker 10: conservative wishes combined all onto the same piece of legislation. 770 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 10: Keep in mind, by the way, this is the same 771 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 10: crowd that held up the election of a speaker by 772 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 10: about a week and went fifteen rounds because they were 773 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 10: supposedly so committed to regular order going through committee, ensuring 774 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 10: bills only had one subject. Well, all of that, of course, 775 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,759 Speaker 10: is thrown completely out the window because we now have 776 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 10: this bill gipping the Budget Committee going straight to the floor, 777 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 10: really put together by one person, Kevin McCarthy. And again 778 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 10: it's a combination of a dozen or so completely unrelated thing. 779 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 15: Well, but it does see, Congressman that the consensus seems 780 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,839 Speaker 15: to be that this is really the ultimate package that 781 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 15: Republicans expect would even get through. This is just an opening, 782 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 15: if you will, something that can then have some give 783 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 15: and take that comes along with it. A negotiation and 784 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 15: theory is what the Speaker would like to see. And 785 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 15: we actually have heard from members of your own party 786 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 15: in the Senate, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin slamming Biden for 787 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,320 Speaker 15: not negotiating. He actually said in a statement he applaud 788 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,400 Speaker 15: Speaker McCarthy for putting forward this proposal, even though he 789 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 15: doesn't agree with everything proposed. Congressman, should the White House 790 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 15: be engaging in these conversations. 791 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 10: Yeah, let's not overstate this. I mean, I happen to 792 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 10: like Joe personally, but I don't think he frankly is 793 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 10: speaking for many or even any Democrats on this issue, 794 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 10: saying that he likes most of Speaker McCarthy's proposal. And 795 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 10: just to be clear, because I think that this whole 796 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 10: conversation around negotiation has gotten a little obscured. Obviously, Democrats 797 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,640 Speaker 10: are ready willing and able to negotiate with Republicans on 798 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 10: future spending. What we are not willing to do is 799 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 10: to give up anything in order to get Republicans to 800 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 10: do what is their responsibility, and that has put a 801 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,040 Speaker 10: bill on the floor to raise the debt ceiling clean. 802 00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 10: Imagine if a few years ago when Donald Trump was 803 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 10: president and we voted three times by the way Democrats 804 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 10: did to raise the debt ceiling. When Donald Trump was president, 805 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 10: imagine if we had held it up and we said, no, 806 00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,200 Speaker 10: we're not going to vote for the debt ceiling increased 807 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 10: unless you lower the age of Medicare at fifty five, 808 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 10: or unless you add dental to medicare, or unless you 809 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,319 Speaker 10: put this funding toward the environment. We didn't do that. 810 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 10: That would be irresponsible. Raising the debt ceiling is about 811 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 10: pass spending. Spending frankly that both parties appropriated Beck is 812 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 10: something that has to happen period. But we're happy to 813 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,800 Speaker 10: have a negotiation about future spending. We have to government 814 00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 10: runs out of funding midnight September thirtieth. 815 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 2: Anyway, you may not be surprised by Joe Manchin. I'm 816 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 2: not sure anyone is in Washington on this one, Congressman. 817 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 2: But just today Bloomberg also spoke with Senators Tina Smith 818 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 2: and John Hickenlooper, and they both said starting negotiations was 819 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 2: entirely appropriate at this point. So I guess not to 820 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 2: get too wonky here, but when should the president start 821 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,160 Speaker 2: talking with the speaker. Do you need to see or 822 00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:20,960 Speaker 2: does the administration need to see that he has two 823 00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 2: hundred and eighteen votes first on this new plan. 824 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 10: Well back a few months ago, it was pretty clear 825 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 10: that both sides were going to unveil their budget to 826 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 10: the American people. President Biden did that, I believe on 827 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,360 Speaker 10: March ninth. He unveiled it in my congressional district in Philadelphia. 828 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 10: Republicans said they were going to shortly thereafter have their 829 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 10: budget and that they would present it to the Budget 830 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 10: Committee on which I serve as ranking member. Yeah, and 831 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,560 Speaker 10: that they were going to have a vote. Never happened. 832 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 10: Then they said it would be April. Never happened. Think 833 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 10: you of this piece of legislation, which actually isn't a budget, 834 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,440 Speaker 10: by the way, so that has really been the missing 835 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 10: piece all along, that Speaker McCarthy that hasn't been able 836 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 10: to put anything together working with his colleagues. That would 837 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 10: have two hundred and eighteen votes on the other side. 838 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 10: If he is able to get two hundred and eighteen 839 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:14,279 Speaker 10: votes for this bill while it's not a budget, obviously, 840 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 10: that would at least lay down a marker on their 841 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 10: side and probably would move some things forward. But I 842 00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 10: do want to interject, by the way, the most important 843 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,480 Speaker 10: thing though, that we could do for the market right now, 844 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 10: it's just to have a clean increase in the debt ceiling. 845 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,880 Speaker 10: I mean, given the projections that are out there of 846 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:38,439 Speaker 10: a slowing economy, the possibility of a recession, we still 847 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 10: don't know if we're entirely over what was the banking 848 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 10: crisis not that long ago. Let's just get this debt 849 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 10: ceiling done with and then we can have real negotiation 850 00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 10: and compromise over what next year's budget and the years 851 00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:53,520 Speaker 10: after that looks like. 852 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 15: Well, but as you rightly allude to, Congressman, a lot 853 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 15: hinges on the full faith and credit of the United States. 854 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,600 Speaker 15: It's a potential default or getting close to it, could 855 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,040 Speaker 15: recavoc on financial markets. Ultimately, perhaps the US economy and 856 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,440 Speaker 15: the American people are going to want to place blame 857 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,719 Speaker 15: on someone for that or somebody for that. What gives 858 00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 15: you the confidence that with this brinkmanship, Democrats won't be 859 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:20,240 Speaker 15: found at fault? 860 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 14: Should they not link so first? 861 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 10: I mean, I'm more interested in finding solutions and less 862 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,640 Speaker 10: interested than allocating blame. If the worst were to happen, 863 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 10: which would be catastrophic, it would be the first time 864 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,359 Speaker 10: in American history. I do want to point out, though, 865 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,600 Speaker 10: I and my fellow Democrats we practice what we preach. 866 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 10: Three times. When Donald Trump was in the White House, 867 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 10: we voted to raise the debt ceiling. In fact, the 868 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,879 Speaker 10: vast majority of votes to increase the debt ceiling when 869 00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 10: a Republican was in the White House came from the 870 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 10: Democratic side. So we have a clear track record on 871 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 10: this and have been principled and consistent. Raising the debt 872 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,960 Speaker 10: ceiling is the respons ponsible thing to do. It's about 873 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,320 Speaker 10: paying bills that you already rang up, you know, some 874 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:07,400 Speaker 10: years ago. 875 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, when it comes to the spending plan, part of 876 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,719 Speaker 2: Speaker McCarthy's argument, Congressman is that he wants to bring 877 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 2: levels back, as you well know, back to where they 878 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,439 Speaker 2: were a few months ago in twenty twenty two, which 879 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,800 Speaker 2: seemed okay. Then why is it different now, especially post pandemic. 880 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 10: Well, you know, it's interesting. On the surface, something like 881 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 10: that can sound reasonable. However, when you actually look into 882 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,799 Speaker 10: the specifics and given the number of things they would 883 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:38,280 Speaker 10: actually exclude from cuts, the Appropriations Committee in the House 884 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 10: found on the Democratic side that we'd be looking at 885 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,960 Speaker 10: anywhere from a twenty two to twenty four percent cut 886 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 10: on all sorts of critical programs. I mean, we recently 887 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:53,319 Speaker 10: had rail derailments in Ohio and other states. We would 888 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,279 Speaker 10: have a number of train inspectors that would have to 889 00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:56,839 Speaker 10: be laid off with those sorts of custs. 890 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 2: So when you take it title off the table and 891 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,839 Speaker 2: some of these other issues, You're point is there's such 892 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 2: a small piece of the pie that you're negotiating that 893 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,319 Speaker 2: bringing it back to twenty two levels would mean much 894 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 2: more draconian cuts than is being described. 895 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 10: That's exactly right. What sounds at first, which has the 896 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 10: appearance of sounding reasonable, once you get under the hood, 897 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 10: you realize there would be some consequences that frankly, the 898 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 10: American people don't support well. 899 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,360 Speaker 15: With that in mind, Congressman, doesn't this point to a 900 00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 15: much larger longer term problem. Even if you can find 901 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 15: some consensus on where to pull back and the near term, 902 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,480 Speaker 15: both sides can have a budget that they agree on. 903 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 15: I mean, when we're talking about the fact that you 904 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,919 Speaker 15: can't touch entitlements, that does not bode well longer term 905 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,439 Speaker 15: for the trajectory of spending in the US economy. Right. 906 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 10: So, we had a budget Committee hearing a few weeks 907 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,520 Speaker 10: ago and which had a number of economists testify in 908 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,279 Speaker 10: front of US Mark and Andy, who I'm sure you've 909 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,040 Speaker 10: had on before. Chief economists the Moody's analytics. He pointed 910 00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 10: out that if you pursued what was the originally the 911 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 10: Republican state of goal, which was to balance the budget 912 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,560 Speaker 10: in ten years, but you don't touch social Security, don't 913 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:11,359 Speaker 10: touch Medicare, don't touch defense, don't touch veterans, you would 914 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,680 Speaker 10: have to eliminate almost one hundred percent of everything else. 915 00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,680 Speaker 10: Even if you restore, even if you didn't go toward 916 00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 10: a total balanced budget, but even went on the path there, 917 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,840 Speaker 10: such as cutting funding back to FY twenty two levels, 918 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 10: Moodies found that that would bring about a recession in 919 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,759 Speaker 10: twenty twenty four an unemployment rates above six percent. So 920 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:37,480 Speaker 10: that to me, I mean right now, the health of 921 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:42,440 Speaker 10: our economy is my immediate concern. Second, I would say, 922 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,200 Speaker 10: is not so much the deficit issue. But admediately we 923 00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,840 Speaker 10: do have a long term debt issue, especially as we 924 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,960 Speaker 10: get into the next decade, and the percentage of our 925 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,760 Speaker 10: population that is older, that is sixty five and older, 926 00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 10: will trust be a higher percentage of our overall population. Admittedly, 927 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 10: that is a challenge that we're going to have to tackle. 928 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,760 Speaker 10: I'm willing to sit down and talk to any member 929 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 10: of both parties about how we do that in responsible way. 930 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,239 Speaker 10: I don't see that though, coming out of anything that 931 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 10: Speaker McCarthy is proposing. 932 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 2: Wow, boy, this is going to be a long term conversation, obviously, 933 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 2: and certainly on your committee. Congressman, before we let you go, 934 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 2: can you tell our listeners and viewers today that we're 935 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 2: going to not only avoid a default, but a downgrade 936 00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 2: that was two weeks before the X date when that 937 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 2: happened in twenty eleven. 938 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 10: You know, I wish that I could say that with 939 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,319 Speaker 10: one hundred percent certainty, But I'm actually someone who, as 940 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,240 Speaker 10: you may remember, for quite some time, has been deeply 941 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,919 Speaker 10: worried about this issue. I was the person who led 942 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 10: the letter back in October and November of a group 943 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 10: of about thirty or so of my House Democratic colleagues 944 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,760 Speaker 10: saying that we needed to tackle raising the debt ceiling 945 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 10: back then because I saw what a problem this could 946 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 10: potentially be with Republicans taking control of the House of Representatives. 947 00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:02,880 Speaker 10: I deeply regret, frankly that you that that didn't happen 948 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 10: during lame duck. So I would say that I'm hopeful, 949 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,880 Speaker 10: and I do believe there is a much greater than 950 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,520 Speaker 10: fifty percent chance that ultimately the dead ceiling will be raised. 951 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 10: My biggest fear, though, is that this will play out 952 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,799 Speaker 10: for so long and we'll get so close to the 953 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 10: deadline that we could indeed risk yet another downgrade, which 954 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,960 Speaker 10: back in twenty eleven when that happened, it increased our 955 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:33,080 Speaker 10: borrowing costs by billions of dollars. It's completely asinine. 956 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 15: Well, and Congressman right on this point. I was speaking 957 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 15: with one of your congressional colleagues earlier this week, Brad Sherman, 958 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,160 Speaker 15: the representative from California, who told me he thinks the 959 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:46,560 Speaker 15: market is underpricing the risk that Congress messes this up. 960 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,799 Speaker 15: What is your message to the market right now? Are 961 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,800 Speaker 15: they accurately reflecting the reality. 962 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 10: We had former Treasury Secretary Jack lou speaking at the 963 00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,800 Speaker 10: Democratic Caucus meeting yesterday morning, and I said, right there, 964 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,080 Speaker 10: I believe the markets right now are not pricing it 965 00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,800 Speaker 10: in and are frankly overconfident when it comes. 966 00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 5: To this issue. 967 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,279 Speaker 15: All right, and on that note, we will leave it. 968 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,960 Speaker 15: Thank you so very much for your time today. That 969 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,919 Speaker 15: is Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. 970 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg sound on podcast. Catch the 971 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,960 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 972 00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,360 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 973 00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,359 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 974 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,840 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 975 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,280 Speaker 2: Well they got the rocket off the pad today, SpaceX's 976 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,759 Speaker 2: Starship Rocket, the cool looking one, more powerful than any 977 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:47,239 Speaker 2: previous crewed spacecraft, taller than the Saturn five, which of 978 00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,800 Speaker 2: course took humans to the Moon. This one will eventually 979 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,279 Speaker 2: bring people, including NASA astronauts and cargo, into Earth's orbit 980 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,400 Speaker 2: and beyond the next step, they say to Mars and Kayleie. 981 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:01,279 Speaker 2: We all got together right around nine point thirty. You know, 982 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:05,479 Speaker 2: Bloomberg folks skipped the opening bell to watch this. Yeah, 983 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:09,080 Speaker 2: we had it on the terminal America holding its breath 984 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,040 Speaker 2: as the Starship counted down. 985 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 5: Yeah. 986 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:22,880 Speaker 2: Man, that made a racket. They're cheering for this thing 987 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:28,280 Speaker 2: as it clears the tower, and boy, what a feeling. 988 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:29,600 Speaker 2: It was beautiful, right, beautiful? 989 00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:29,919 Speaker 8: Watch? 990 00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:37,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, zero for park collaboration here. The communications to control 991 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,160 Speaker 2: is the rocket clears the tower in a beautiful show 992 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:47,200 Speaker 2: for everybody. After chamber Pressure's all's the chamber pressure nominal 993 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:48,200 Speaker 2: that looked goods Bill. 994 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:53,600 Speaker 16: Launch party, second t the test points from the inwardrial 995 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,759 Speaker 16: source of vehicle twarts. Here the land of picks over 996 00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 16: the pulsive reports first digsis model what else. 997 00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,840 Speaker 2: Flying it twice the thrust so the slamon flying. They 998 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,840 Speaker 2: couldn't believe this thing. I mean, it was historic. Obviously, 999 00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,880 Speaker 2: they said anything beyond clearing the tower was gravy just 1000 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,759 Speaker 2: to get this thing off the bad And it's good 1001 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:26,839 Speaker 2: that they had that in their minds because it blew up. 1002 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:27,399 Speaker 5: Kate. 1003 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,560 Speaker 17: Right now, it looks like we saw the start of 1004 00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,560 Speaker 17: the flip. But obviously we're saying from the ground cameras 1005 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 17: the entire starship stack atoon to rotate. We should have 1006 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:40,319 Speaker 17: had separation by now. This does not appear to be 1007 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:41,719 Speaker 17: a nominal situation. 1008 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,080 Speaker 14: Yeah, it does appear to be spinning. 1009 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:48,040 Speaker 12: But I do want to remind everyone that everything after 1010 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,919 Speaker 12: clearing the tower was icing on the cake. 1011 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,000 Speaker 2: That's right, I said gravy. We'll call it icing. 1012 00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 9: And listen to the reaction when it blew up. 1013 00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:59,480 Speaker 2: They cheered Kley. This is a great pr move. 1014 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,520 Speaker 15: It goes to show you spin and framing is everything 1015 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:04,880 Speaker 15: in the face of failure. 1016 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:10,040 Speaker 2: Just celebrate, just to isolate that by the way, you're 1017 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,600 Speaker 2: looking at the at the thing and it's flipping. What's happening? 1018 00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:20,560 Speaker 2: Then just see this massive explosion. Here's what it sounded like. Ah, 1019 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:23,200 Speaker 2: like a bad pitch maybe. 1020 00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:26,879 Speaker 15: And yet Joe, we say massive explosion, SpaceX will say 1021 00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,680 Speaker 15: it was a rapid unscheduled disassembly. 1022 00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,239 Speaker 2: Speaking of good PR who came up with that? 1023 00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:38,280 Speaker 15: Someone definitely drafted that language in advance for the specific scenario. 1024 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 2: Indeed, and so we're joined by an expert. We're going 1025 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:43,440 Speaker 2: to be turning things over to David Weston in a 1026 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 2: couple of minutes his interview with Brian moynihan. But we 1027 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,200 Speaker 2: wanted to compare notes with an expert. Keith Cowing is here, 1028 00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:52,040 Speaker 2: the editor at spaceref dot com. Keith, I don't know 1029 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,000 Speaker 2: if you ever heard of a rapid unscheduled disassembly, but 1030 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:57,360 Speaker 2: it sure looked like one, didn't it. 1031 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 11: Yeah, And actually, uh, that's an Elon phrase. I think 1032 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,800 Speaker 11: I first heard it fifteen twenty years ago. 1033 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,880 Speaker 14: Okay, so this isn't a PR. 1034 00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,600 Speaker 11: Team, No, No, he didn't have a PR team. He 1035 00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,360 Speaker 11: did this Elon on Twitter and whether it was a 1036 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:15,560 Speaker 11: lot of icing or a lot of gravy. There's a 1037 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,600 Speaker 11: lot of that on that rocket today. 1038 00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,640 Speaker 2: That's so, you know, are they right? Was this just 1039 00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:23,840 Speaker 2: a matter of clearing the tower? Is this a major failure? 1040 00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:25,120 Speaker 2: I guess both. 1041 00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,160 Speaker 11: Well, yeah, I've done a couple of interviews today and 1042 00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,200 Speaker 11: I you know, I guess I would say that the 1043 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,600 Speaker 11: former rocket sign just guy that I am. Anytime a 1044 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:36,279 Speaker 11: rocket takes off, doesn't blow up in the pad, goes 1045 00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,600 Speaker 11: up like a rocket. And you know, this is the 1046 00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,720 Speaker 11: first time they launched it, so yeah, it took off 1047 00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:44,840 Speaker 11: and actually the problem it had was way up in 1048 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,719 Speaker 11: the air, you know, one hundred twenty some thousand feet. Well, 1049 00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,200 Speaker 11: the second stage didn't want to just connect. So you know, 1050 00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,239 Speaker 11: if this is my rocket and it's the first time 1051 00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:55,719 Speaker 11: I launched it, and it's got thirty something engines and 1052 00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,799 Speaker 11: six of them didn't work, but it still went that high, yeah, 1053 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,520 Speaker 11: I'd be jumping up and down too. And remember this 1054 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,960 Speaker 11: is a company that has a blooper reel for all 1055 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:09,160 Speaker 11: the rockets, right, gets serious and it's like if if 1056 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,880 Speaker 11: a GASA Blue rocket up like that would be congressional hearings. 1057 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:14,239 Speaker 11: These guys have a blooper reel. 1058 00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:14,879 Speaker 2: They have a part. 1059 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,839 Speaker 15: Yeah, well, we did hear from the FAA on this 1060 00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:20,200 Speaker 15: just moments ago. They did say that there was no 1061 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:25,279 Speaker 15: injuries or public property damaged or reported being damaged from this. 1062 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:30,880 Speaker 15: They will oversee the mishap investigation of the Starship test mission. 1063 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,879 Speaker 15: But as you say, this was just attempt number one. 1064 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:37,520 Speaker 15: Elon Musk was out tweeting today, congratulations to the SpaceX 1065 00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:39,840 Speaker 15: team on this exciting test launch. We learned a lot 1066 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:42,759 Speaker 15: for the next test launch in a few months. How 1067 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,359 Speaker 15: much really can be tweaked in a few months? Could 1068 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,319 Speaker 15: these problems be fixed entirely for the next time We 1069 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,799 Speaker 15: all our eyes glued to the launch pad. 1070 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,320 Speaker 11: Yeah, And here's the thing. If this was a NASA rocket, 1071 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,000 Speaker 11: it would already be like a decade late, billions over budget, 1072 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 11: and there's only one in the barn. Say they blew 1073 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,360 Speaker 11: it up, they'd say okay, and they'd be talking about 1074 00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,160 Speaker 11: what year before they launched again. Whereas with SpaceX, they've 1075 00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,000 Speaker 11: got the next ones down the street. As a matter 1076 00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,160 Speaker 11: of fact, one of them is often usually like within 1077 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:16,200 Speaker 11: camera view, And so they build this like a consumer product, 1078 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,440 Speaker 11: like a toaster, you know, like, all right, if the 1079 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,640 Speaker 11: toastka has burnt, the consumer. All right, well we'll have 1080 00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,759 Speaker 11: to adjust the thermostat. There's you know, from now on, 1081 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,000 Speaker 11: you know, we'll use continuous improvement to make them better. 1082 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:31,399 Speaker 11: And that's baked into pun intended. That's baked into how 1083 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:32,600 Speaker 11: they built this rocket. 1084 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,440 Speaker 2: Pun intended, Space guys was so funny, Keith, We got 1085 00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,640 Speaker 2: to do this in person sometime. We don't have a 1086 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,239 Speaker 2: date though, right in any sense of uh, when this 1087 00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,360 Speaker 2: is going to happen for another launcher, we have to 1088 00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:44,680 Speaker 2: wait for Elon to figure that out. 1089 00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,560 Speaker 11: Well what Jambs four twenty and everybody knew was going 1090 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,759 Speaker 11: to happen? Yeah, right, give me another Police nine, you know, 1091 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:56,839 Speaker 11: sooner than you think, and certainly with more certainty. And 1092 00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,520 Speaker 11: I think the problem that they will find will be 1093 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:00,600 Speaker 11: easily fixable. 1094 00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:03,959 Speaker 2: So if it's not, if it's not four twenty, maybe 1095 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,440 Speaker 2: it's seven to ten or some other joe, you know, 1096 00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:08,160 Speaker 2: picking numbers. 1097 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:13,000 Speaker 11: You never know it's Elon. It's Elon time, and you 1098 00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,080 Speaker 11: know that who's the boss. 1099 00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,400 Speaker 2: That's right, Keith. Great to have a Keith Cowing editor 1100 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,520 Speaker 2: Space ref dot com, just the man we wanted for 1101 00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:23,760 Speaker 2: this moment. Kayley, I'll tell. 1102 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:23,920 Speaker 1: You what. 1103 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,360 Speaker 2: If it's just gravy clearing the towel in towers. Tell 1104 00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,040 Speaker 2: Major Tom that you kind of have to finish the 1105 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:37,040 Speaker 2: whole flight for this to work right. Thanks for listening 1106 00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,440 Speaker 2: to the Sound On podcast. Make sure to subscribe if 1107 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,280 Speaker 2: you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you 1108 00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,040 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and you can find us live every 1109 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:48,439 Speaker 2: weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at 1110 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,040 Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com