WEBVTT - Do you need therapy? 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:04.200 I'm Anny, and this is no such thing. The show 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.600 where we settle our dumb arguments and yours by actually 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:11.080 doing the research. On today's episode, we're gonna find out 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:15.680 if you, dear listener need therapy. 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:23.400 No, there's no no such thing. No touch thank no touch, thank. 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:26.480 Touch, thank. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:29.400 Touch, thank. 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:33.000 So. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:37.599 I got the idea for this episode after an interaction 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.959 I had with a friend, and this this friend. When 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.800 you hear this, I'm sorry for using our interaction as 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:48.159 fodder for a podcast content, but he's kind of like 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:55.040 a you know, he leans broie, masculine guy from the Midwest. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.160 And I was texting him to see, like when we 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:01.800 should hang out. There's a game on and we were 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.840 gonna go watch the game, and then he was like, yeah, 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:07.119 I can. I can get there at eight, Mike, because 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:11.400 my therapy raps at seven. Totally normal thing to say 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.280 to someone, except for the fact that I was surprised 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:16.880 when I read it. I was like, I was surprised 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.280 that someone like him was doing therapy, not just that 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.840 he was in therapy, but also that he would be 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.200 open about it and tell me that I'm in therapy. 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.960 I'm not just like yeah, no, no, I was surprised 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.759 that someone like him would be transparent about that because he, 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.160 to me, I think, struck me as someone who like 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:40.120 wouldn't want to either admit or and it made me think, like, 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.559 because I'm from the Midwest, I'm from a red state, 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.880 like I we grew up thinking about therapy as like, 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:49.720 you know, you really only should do that if you 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.000 have some real problem, or like not thinking it was 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.200 necessarily like feminine, but like something that was just kind 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.280 of woo woo. I guess and you, Devin, this is 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:02.360 kind of exactly what I mean. When when we would 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.200 hang out and you would say, hell, I'll be there 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.920 after therapy, that didn't surprise me at all coming from 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:09.079 I was like, Okay. 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:13.800 I'e man, you're. 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.680 You're just a bit You're more curious as you're able 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:17.160 to hang out. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:22.560 So that interaction made me think about like the trajectory 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:25.639 of like the kind of social acceptance of therapy has 0:02:26.639 --> 0:02:32.680 evolved in the past few decades. And maybe I'm underestimating 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:35.680 my fellow Americans, but I but I think probably most 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:40.720 people still don't do therapy or don't understand what it 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.120 is exactly. And so I thought we could use our 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:48.920 powers to kind of educate and and you know, like 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.000 I think an episode about like what it what it 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:56.359 is exactly, I think could be really helpful because personally, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.160 I think it's a super useful tool. 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:03.400 You know, here's Many's disclaimer from his earlier statement and. 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.919 Are you deep? Are you in therapy? Yeah? Ok, yeah, 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:07.800 yeah yeah. 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:09.959 And there's like moments in my life where I have 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.240 been and I and then I would stop and then 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.160 start up again. And there's like a lot of layers 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.480 to you know, how it can be useful maybe how 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.560 in some instance it's not useful. But I want to 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.120 ask you guys, like your experience with therapy, but also 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:30.040 like where you see the public kind of consensus about 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:31.000 therapy is. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.400 Yeah, So I've been in therapy now going on five years. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:40.160 I started during COVID. I've been thinking about doing it beforehand, 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.320 but I always just made some short of excuse just 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.200 to like why not to do it? And then COVID 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.600 I was like, well everyone's going to therapy now, so 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:51.080 like let's do it. Me deciding to go to therapy 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:55.280 to your point, it was like a like it wasn't 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.240 a big deal, but it also was a big deal, right, 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.600 Like it's like, I don't know anyone in my family 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.440 who's gone to therapy and like talked about it outside 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.520 of like you've got to go, you know, like maybe 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.320 mandatory or like there's an issue here in back of 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.520 my mind. It was like, do I actually need this? 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.480 You know, like is this something I think like actually 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:20.919 should be doing, Like it's not exactly cheap and is 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:25.159 this sort of like a waste of time and it's 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.480 not you know, I'm still doing it, And it felt 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.320 like a good way to sort of also force me, 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.279 as someone who doesn't like talking about their feelings, to 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.200 like have to at a certain time every week have 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.640 a dedicated time to talk about my feelings and to 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:47.520 think about what the hell my feelings are. Cause pre therapy, 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.760 I would just ignore how I felt, not ignore, but 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.000 just like push through how I felt about a lot 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.719 of things and like never come back to it because 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.880 I'm just like, well, if I just like feel some 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.839 want normal or whatever, like, then I'm fine. 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:03.479 You know. 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.039 Like to me before progress was like, do I feel sad? 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.400 And you can also not feel sad by not thinking 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:09.920 about the thing? 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:10.479 Mm hmm. 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.599 But it's also I feel like it's a generational thing, right, 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.920 I feel like our generation like no one Batton Island, 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:18.839 you say, like you're gone to therapy. 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:21.039 It took me a while to tell my mom that 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:21.680 I was doing it. 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:22.479 Why. 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:24.920 I was worried that she was going to be like, oh, 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.560 what's wrong with you? Yeah, you know, like that sort 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.839 of like are you good? 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:30.800 Yeah? 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.320 And I feel like growing up there's like pop culture 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:37.599 representations of therapy that make you feel like that. 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:37.920 Yeah. 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.680 It's like if I'm getting therapy, that means something's wrong 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:40.920 with me. 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:41.320 Yes. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:46.440 My constant hesitation going into it was like, oh, people 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.359 go to their well, you know, this is like the 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:52.640 pop culture thought of it. People go to therapy or suicidal, right, yeah? Yeah, 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:54.280 and if I go to therapy, pe who can think 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.839 I'm suicidal. I have a lot of issues, that's not 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:01.080 one of them. So yeah, and now that was part 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:02.479 of my thing, you too, to tell them. I like, 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.960 I ended up telling my mom after my dad died. 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:06.920 I was just sort of like we were talking about 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.599 coping mechanisms. When I was like, whoa, I've been going 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:11.280 for like three years. You don't know this, but I've 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.680 been going to therapy, and it was like, you know, 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:17.599 for me, it was helpful to have that too, because 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.440 it was like, Okay, I've been doing the work with 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.200 a therapist and then a big thing happened in my 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.680 life and then have to like he already knew the 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:27.919 context of like my relationship with my dad and like 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:29.480 all these sort of things. And it was like a 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:32.640 person I could talk to that also was not grieving 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.800 at the time. Right, Like you think about a lot 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.760 of stuff you try to to refrain of, like you 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:39.800 should just talk to your family or friends. It's like 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.680 sometimes they're going through that stuff with you, right, And 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.560 it's like, you know, I don't think I think we 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:47.560 think that we're a burden to people more so than 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.200 we are. But I think at times there can be 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.360 things on my mind that feel like a burden. If 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:55.800 I were to talk to a normal person about it 0:06:55.800 --> 0:06:57.880 feels like a burden. But obviously I'm paying my therapist, 0:06:58.080 --> 0:06:59.200 so he has to listen. 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:00.000 To me talk about it. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.160 This is why you're there, Yeah, exactly what about you know, 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:06.159 have you ever had gone to therapy or I have not. 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:14.480 Not once. I'm not even once. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:20.800 Yeah, I'm supportive of my brothers and sisters, but now 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:22.640 I just haven't done it. And you know, there have 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:25.800 been times when you know, it's quite popular. It seems 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.080 they're growing in steam and like the stigma's going away, 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.080 Like we're discussing where it's like, oh, maybe you know, 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.239 I could probably stand to gain something from this, even 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.800 just having that hour or whatever to reflect on my 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.880 thoughts or feelings in a way that I don't necessarily 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:44.960 do in my day to day. So I see the 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:47.680 benefits of it, or you know why I think would 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:48.360 be the benefits. 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.000 But yeah, I've just never had anything. 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:56.000 I've never pushed to do it myself for whatever reason. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:57.440 But I guess one of the things I think about 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:02.160 is like, should everyone be in therapy? Sometimes I feel 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.480 like people might use therapy like ideas that spread online. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:09.200 Some people use kind of language from therapy yes, as 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.880 what I view as kind of excuses or crutches yes, 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:15.160 to almost self isolate instead of making it easier to 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:17.960 actually connect with other people. I guess the biggest kind 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.040 of pop culture example of this was like the Jonah 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:22.480 Hill thing from a few years ago. 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:24.840 Oh yeah. 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:29.480 Basically, Jonah Hill was in a relationship with a surfing instructor, 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:35.120 and the surfing instructor accused him of being emotionally abusive 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:40.160 and revealed their text messages. And in the text messages, 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.720 it's clear that Jonah Hill is kind of weaponizing language 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.920 that you might hear in therapy just to kind of 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:53.559 mask his own insecurities. The specific word in question is boundaries. 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.360 He was saying that she was kind of violating his 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:02.360 boundaries whenever she would, you know, surf with men even 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.960 though she is a surfing instructor, and when she would 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.760 post pictures of herself in a bikini. 0:09:09.280 --> 0:09:11.280 Now, this incident kind. 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:16.880 Of set off waves of conversations and discourse online about 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:21.680 when therapy speak is useful or when people are abusing it. 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:23.559 I think you and me ought to have a conversation 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.199 about boundaries and manipulation. It's not enough for a man 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:28.960 to simply go to therapy. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.520 When a person who doesn't want to change their own 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.560 behavior as goes to therapy, they can learn language to 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.760 weaponize in order to justify their bad behavior. Some people 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.760 were being like, what's wrong with this, he's just setting boundaries, 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.880 or what's wrong with this? He wants a more traditional relationship. 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.120 And let me tell you, I think what we ideally 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.199 want in life is to have our partners be equals, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.319 and we also need to be responsible for our own 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:56.560 emotional datage. 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:02.360 I think the first time I therapy actually was it 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.000 like right when I moved to New York and Business 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.640 Insider actually had some kind of a thing with your 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:10.640 health insurance where like you could go do a couple 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:11.480 sessions for free. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:13.959 Yeah, so I was like great, And then. 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:17.520 I think what it helps me do is like understand 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.680 why I do or think the way I do sometimes 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.200 in certain instances. And I found that to be so 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.760 useful and like it gives me more active like agency 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:29.840 when I move around the world and like figuring out 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.319 like why I think about this thing the way I do. 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.640 But yeah, of course there are like other examples of 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.559 people getting therapy where it like it could skew. 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.440 Because I think the big thing with therapy, and you know, 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:43.920 we'll get into this I guess later, is like at 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.560 least the way I see it is like therapy gives 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.680 you the tools to work on yourself to like be 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.920 a better person. Yeah, but you also have to work 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.120 at it. It's not a sort of like if you 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:56.680 just show up for an hour and then do nothing 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.520 in between, that's not really helping you, right, It's like 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.679 you have to like to your point, like all right, 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:04.719 I know this is the way my mind works, so like 0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:06.880 when I'm in certain situations, like I need to keep 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.480 that in mind, and like maybe operates like differently. Like 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:13.400 for me, therapy forces myself to be in more uncomfortable situations, 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.520 right where I'll talk about things that like I usually 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:18.560 I would avoid and like, all right, maybe I should 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:20.600 confront this person about this thing or like have that 0:11:20.640 --> 0:11:23.520 conversation that like in the past I would just like 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.560 let go by. But I think there's two things I play. 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:29.520 I think people use it as an excuse because they 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.000 don't want to do to work, so they'll just use 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:32.920 the language and then never actually do any of the 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.120 work and then just like be terrible to other people. 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.840 And then I think they're you know, like therapists are 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.360 also people. Yeah, and there's you know, like it's like cops. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.000 It's like there's good, there's good. 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:45.559 There's good. 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.360 Therapists are like cops, but there's. 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:50.640 Good therapist that they're bad therapists. You know, my friend 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:54.080 was telling me the other day, shit, too crazy therapists. 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:58.640 Okay, one therapist is falling asleep during your sessions. 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:02.880 Damn crazy like a phone. 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.000 It's a phone, it's not a it's not video, not video, 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.240 it's on the phone. And she hears the therapist snoring 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:19.200 multiple multiple that's crazy. And then this other therapist, there's 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.000 this this friend I was talking to is sober. She 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.000 was complaining to the therapist about it's hard to date 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.400 in New York because you know, a lot of dating 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:30.440 in New York is around drinking, and the therapists told 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.120 them maybe you should take up drinks. 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.160 There's no fucking. 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.520 That's as a therapist, right. 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.000 So I think that's also to you is that like, hey, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.719 they're bad doctors, that there are bad versions of everything, right, 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.360 So like some people maybe they are doing the work 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.760 that they're horrible therapist to tell them to do. 0:12:49.840 --> 0:12:52.360 You know, I feel like people do also sometimes just 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.280 want a therapist that just validates them. So they'll just 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.679 go to complain about their friend or family or whatever 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.400 and just want the therapist to be like, you know what, you're. 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.360 Right, They want to chat. 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.199 And then then then if they get pushed back from 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:08.360 the therapist, or not even pushback, but just like maybe 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:10.400 offering a different perspective, that'll be like I need a 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:10.840 new therapist. 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:12.400 Yeah, yeah, I'm not comfortable. 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:14.760 Wow, challenging, I'm unsafe right now? 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:15.200 Yeah. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.079 So well, guys. 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:22.920 Luckily for us, we have an expert sitting right over there. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:25.640 Oh wow, who can kind of walk us through this, 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.240 because I think one of my goals for this episode 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:32.439 is to kind of demystify what therapy is and what 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.240 it can do for you. And so after the break, 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.199 we're gonna be talking to Lily Kaplan. She's a therapist 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.439 and she's also the author of the Reality Test newsletter 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.240 on sub sac. We're gonna be asking Lily a lot 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:51.040 of questions about what therapy is and what therapy isn't. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:02.920 Hey, folks, many here. 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:05.120 Before we get to the rest of this episode, I 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.880 just wanted to share some responses that we got to 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.800 our food safety episode. When it comes to the bowl 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:17.160 designated for vomiting that some households utilized, we ran a 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.800 small pole and apparently fifty six percent of our listeners 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:26.080 did have this dedicated sick bowl growing up. Couldn't be me, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.280 but that's fascinating. When it comes to whether you should 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.520 wash your chicken before you cook it, we got an 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:37.280 interesting email from listener Catherine, who shared that apparently there 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.480 are reasons to wash your chicken that don't have to 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:45.560 do necessarily with food safety. Apparently, in some Middle Eastern cultures, 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.520 people say that they can smell something called zonka, which 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:54.360 is kind of a indescribable, rotting, rancid smell that can 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.160 show up on your dishes after cooking the chicken. And 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.040 washing your chicken before where you cook it supposedly prevents 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.120 this smell. I looked into it a little bit, and 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.560 it's really fascinating that there's a kind. 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:07.800 Of cultural divide here. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:09.920 A lot of people in Middle Eastern cultures say that 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.080 they can smell the smell, a lot of people in 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.760 Western cultures say that they can't. But we love hearing 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.160 from you guys, so definitely please keep emailing us at 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:22.840 Manny Noah Devin at gmail dot com. Enjoy the rest 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:31.440 of the episode. Hi Lily, Hi Manny, Thanks for doing this. Yeah, 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:35.440 welcome to the show. In this episode, my goal is 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:38.280 to kind of demystify what therapy is, because I have 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:42.080 this theory that most people don't know what it is 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.400 and I could be wrong, but I don't think I am, 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:48.840 because I think I'm usually right about things. I'm right often. 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:49.960 Did you learn that in therapy. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:53.280 Yeah, yeah, my therapist. 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:57.080 These guys always right, Like whoa you neither remember this? Mane, 0:15:57.120 --> 0:15:57.840 You're always right. 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:01.880 Okay, So first of all, what kind of therapy do 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:02.120 you do? 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:08.560 I do talk therapy sort of follows in a psychodynamic practice, 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:14.360 which is essentially about how your past impacts your present. 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:19.440 That's kind of like the most crude, oversimplified answer, and relational, 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:25.760 which is like centering human relationships, using the relationship between 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.920 the therapists and the client as like a model of what 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:30.000 relationships can be. 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:30.920 Yeah. 0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:34.200 I incorporate some other stuff too, some like somatic like 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:38.160 mind body kind of stuff, some mindfulness kind of stuff. 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.840 But I'm not a therapist who like really practices specifically 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:43.600 in like one discipline. 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.160 Okay, So I think the first most obvious question I 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:52.800 have to start out is like, what is the function 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.400 of therapy? What is it supposed to do? And what 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.320 effect is it supposed to have on someone? 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:05.040 Therapy is, I think, supposed to be a space where 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:11.720 you can show up and be your full and complete 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:17.520 self without fear of judgment. People go for different reasons. 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.840 Some people go because they're experiencing like some kind of 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.760 acute symptom like I can't sleep, or like I can't 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.520 stop drinking, and I need to resolve that specific thing. 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.119 And some people go just because they want to like 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:35.359 understand more about themselves or maybe there is something that 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:40.560 happened in the past that plagues them in some way. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:46.439 What it's supposed to do provide insight, reduce symptoms, improve 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:50.480 your capacity to be in relationships, improve your capacity to 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:55.520 just be present with yourself. There's a concept in like 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.680 some trauma therapies called window of tolerance, which is kind 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:04.040 of your ability to tolerate discomfort. If you think of 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.760 it as like a circle. Some people's circle is very 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:14.840 small for whatever reason, and if you, like something happens 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:17.720 that's uncomfortable that like pushes you outside of that window 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:20.840 or outside of that circle, then it's just like total 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.760 shut down or fight or flight or dysregulation in some way. 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.240 So ideally good therapy can like whiten that circle a 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.600 little bit, or like help you come face to face 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.960 with some uncomfortable things and be able to tolerate them. 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:40.399 It's definitely not supposed to remove all pain from the world. 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.680 It's definitely not supposed to make you not ever feel sad. 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.840 Or not ever feel anxious, but rather to trust a 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.000 little bit that sadness will peak and then it might 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:52.560 fall again. 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:57.679 Are there people whose windows are arguably too big? But 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.280 maybe someone who's who lets things roll off them in 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.879 a way and they're not even contending with their discomfort. 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.480 I don't know, it sounds like. 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.120 You might be talking about avoidance. 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.440 Maybe I'm not talking about myself, By the way, mine 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.840 does average. You know, It's like I have an average 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:20.719 size trust. So my next question, I think, would be, 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.240 I guess what are some signs that the therapy is 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:27.000 quote unquote working, Like how do you know if it's 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.880 having a positive impact in one's life or in your 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:31.600 patient's lives? 0:19:32.480 --> 0:19:39.680 They're lifestyle factors. Are you sleeping? Are you eating? Are 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:48.120 you engaged in healthy relationships? How is your self esteem? 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:51.000 How's your kind of self talk? Like that inner voice 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.920 or that inner monologue that you might hear day to day. 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.320 Is it pretty mean or is it pretty nice? Or 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.159 is it sort of like healthy ish mix of both? 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:07.960 And in the room, do you feel like you can 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:13.920 share things with your therapist without the fear of them 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:18.680 judging you or being shocked or making you feel bad, 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.000 Like do you feel like you can show up to 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:24.440 therapy with whatever you have that day. That's a good 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:27.719 indicator that you're in like a good like safe therapeutic relationship. 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:30.359 Yeah. I've heard people say that they lighted at therapists. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.560 Really yeah, well what's an example, do you know? I 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:37.800 think or just like not saying not giving details. 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.720 Oh, mission is obviously a great way of lying. Yeah, 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.440 but I think some people even in it one. 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.720 Of the top favorite top three. 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.080 But I think people, you know, they show up to 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.960 therapy and they're still presenting. Okay, I want to present 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.240 the best version of my health to this therapist, So 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.760 I'm not going to tell them that actually I did X, Y, 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:04.040 and Z. 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:06.760 And I think sometimes I says, just don't feel comfortable. 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.919 Yeah, you Like, I think somethings people feel are even 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.800 like I've I've talked to someone who they told their 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:14.880 therapist something they were going through in a. 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:16.520 Therapist, well, oh my god. 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.320 And like if your therapist has that sort of reaction 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:21.399 to you, like something that you're like, oh, this is 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.880 just my life. Yeah, like, maybe you're not gonna feel 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:26.639 as comfortable telling them certain things. 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.200 I've been watching The West Wing for the first time 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:34.040 and there's an episode this is kind of a spoiler. 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.600 I guess it's like probably twenty years old. I wouldn't 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:40.400 want to spoil if you haven't watched The West Wing 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:45.680 Skip forward. I guess in the middle of season two, 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:48.040 they bring in this like trauma guy and he's like 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:50.080