WEBVTT - Draft Season: Episode 4- Combine Conversations 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:07.200 Welcome to another edition of tape Head's Draft Season. Bobo 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.879 shusan longtime radio voice of the New York Jets in 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.200 a longtime college football play by play man for ESPN, 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.160 joined as always by Greg co Selho for over forty years, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.120 has been breaking down the all twenty two and diving 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.119 deeper behind the xs and ohs than anyone in NFL films, 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.239 and this is his wheelhouse. It is trying to bring 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:30.320 you kind of a behind the scenes, through the weeds 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.639 look at the NFL Draft in a different way than 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.760 other podcasts or anything else you're gonna hear about the 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:39.559 draft anywhere else brings you. We're not doing mock drafts, 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.560 were not doing trade scenarios. We are trying to bring 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.760 you a more realistic look at the way teams approached 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:48.800 the draft and also a much deeper dive into these 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.520 prospects on a week by week basis. And Greg, let's 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.480 start coming out of the combine with that as a 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.720 kind of a general scope, and we're going to get 0:00:56.760 --> 0:01:00.080 to a guy coming up in the next segment that 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.840 I think might be the most fascinating prospect in the 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:05.679 entire NFL draft. Uh And a guy that's going to 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:07.679 be debated back and forth. You know, it's gonna go 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.840 probably in the top five to seven picks where he goes, 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.160 who picks him. We're gonna get to that all a 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:16.400 very interesting discussion, and up you could probably figure out 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.440 who I'm talking about, because he is a polarizing conversation 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:24.040 right now, certainly in New York. But how polarizing are 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:28.240 the conversations coming out of the combine When guys run 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.080 a tick of a forty time less than you expected 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.680 them to, a tick of a shuttle run less than 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:36.400 you expected them to. I mean, were there were there 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.720 guys that you know, surprised people positively or negatively at 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.840 the combine that you think just the combine might overrate 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.320 one way or the other. Well, I think what always 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.840 happens is, as you know, Bob, the forty yard dash 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.800 time is sort of you know, it's like in the 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.840 old Miss America, you know, the swimsuit competition. Everybody judges 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.640 everything by that, you know, so when a guy runs 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.320 a really fast forty, that's what gets talked about. So 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.320 if a guy doesn't run a fast forty, and we're 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.560 gonna get to a particular player here in a position momentarily, 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.760 but when a guy doesn't run a fast forty all 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.800 of a sudden, there's this collective sense, maybe not by teams, 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.320 but just in the way it's presented, you know, whether 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:21.880 it's on social media, just the way it's talked about 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:24.880 on you know, sports talk radio, that oh my god, 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.680 what's the problem. And I think that's the forty time 0:02:29.080 --> 0:02:31.960 is the thing that seems to you know, move the 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.320 needle one way or the other, and it it gets 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.200 so removed from the football part of the equation, the 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:42.560 actual player on tape, that it seems as if it's 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.000 just a separate entity and you know, with a life 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.080 of its own. And you have to be really careful 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:52.720 about forty times impacting what you've seen on tape with players. 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.040 And how about the quarterbacks and the top of the 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.680 draft quarterbacks don't even throw anymore or performally at the combine. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:00.640 They go there, they'll you measure the hands and feet 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.280 in height and weight, and then they leave um or 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.400 they do some interviews with teams, but you know, they 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:10.800 have kind of their doctored, manufactured pro days that acts 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.679 as their combine. How about the evolution of that How 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.160 hard it is to take anything out of what we 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:19.919 either see from the measurables of the combine or these 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.280 pro days that these guys have on their own campuses. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:24.720 You know, it's funny you mentioned that. It just reminded 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.520 me immediately of last year's pro day with Zach Wilson, 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.960 your guy, you know, and and remember when he had 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:31.919 the pro day and he ended up by running to 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.520 his left and throwing the ball, you know, fifty yards 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:36.480 in the air. You know, that was you know, it's funny, said, 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.240 it's funny you bring this example up. Scott p Oli 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.160 during the season on our regular old tape Peds podcast 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.040 basically said exactly what you are saying, that, like, maybe 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.280 the worst thing that ever happened to Zach Wilson was 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:49.680 that throw on his pro dat. Well, what I was 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.000 gonna say, and I don't know what Scott said about it, 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.800 but when I saw that and then it made the 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.880 rounds on social media, was I said to myself, you know, 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:00.200 there's a hundred quarterbacks that could have done that, and 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:03.280 they made it seem like Zack Wilson was the only 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.560 quarterback that could have done that. There's a hundred quarterbacks 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.880 that could have done that. Uh, and you know, we 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.680 get so caught up in the moment, not you know, 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:14.640 just as an aside. You know, we've seen Patrick Mahomes 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:17.039 the last what three years, I guess he's been a 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.039 starter now four years, but you know we've seen him 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.440 with those trick shot throws and everybody goes crazy. You know, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:26.560 Matthew Stafford was doing trick shot throws ten years ago 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:28.919 with the Detroit Lions, but because he was playing with 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:31.440 the Detroit Lions, a bob, no one said a word 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:33.680 about it. You know, So we get caught up in 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.280 the moment. But when Wilson made that throw, and your 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.880 point is probably very valid that people got so excited 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.640 about Wilson, but there's a hundred quarterbacks that could have 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:44.599 done that. Yea, and not only I think that The 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:48.360 point that Scott made um during the season when there 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.120 were times where Zach Wilson was trying a lot of 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.279 the off platform crazy yes you know, hero ball throws, 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.599 was maybe he was trying to live up to all 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:05.240 of the hype that that crazy Pro Day throw create 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.920 rather than just go play simple, just find your check down. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.160 It's okay, it's okay to throw the ball in a 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.760 traditional way over the shoulder to a guy that's five 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:18.280 yards away, let him pick up five or six more 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.560 yards for you and make it second down and four. 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.680 That's a good way to play quarterback in the NFL sometimes. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:25.600 And uh, and you're right. I mean I think he 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:27.800 wasn't away a victim of his own pro day because, 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:30.599 as you said, all of the hype gets into and 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:33.920 he sees those headlines, he hears it. He knows he's 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:35.719 expected now to go to New York and put on 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:37.880 a show, and now he's trying to do that in 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:40.640 the NFL. And boy, as a rookie that that can 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:43.080 backfire on you. You know, it's pretty amazing. And you 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.000 kind of hit on something that I've talked about for 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.760 years and years is the idea that the job of 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:52.560 the quarterback is to execute the offense as it's coached 0:05:52.600 --> 0:05:55.760 and taught. You know, we may have said this before, 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.239 but no coach rolls out the ball in practice and says, 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:01.839 let's run around and see if we can make a 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.640 play today. That's not the way the position is taught. 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.920 But because of highlights social media, we get all excited 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.840 on on these improvisational plays, and I think so many 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.719 people get caught up into thinking that's the way to 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.400 play quarterback now that you have to be able to 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.800 run around and make plays. Now, no one would say 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:24.800 that if you have mobility, that's a bad thing. But 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:30.520 mobility must be secondary to the ability to efficiently execute 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.400 the structure of the offense snap after snap. And I 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.800 don't know Zack Wilson. You obviously do. I never met 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.480 him individually, but one of the big concerns I remember 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.200 when he came out a year ago. Everybody saw the live, 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.320 loose arm, everybody saw the light feet, but there was 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:48.680 a concern that he was too much of a trick 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:52.000 shot artist and he needed to play within the structure 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:55.240 of an offense. As you know, Bob, coaches work sixteen 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:58.760 seventeen hours a day doing this. They want the quarterback 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:04.240 to execute what is taught and coach not run around improvisationally. Well, 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:07.120 it's funny because first part of the season last year 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:09.440 he was that guy, right, and they had a game 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.840 against Tennessee where he threw like a fifty yard side 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.640 arm touchdown. Remember a place went crazy, but most of 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.680 the time, most of the time they were losing. Um. 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.240 Then he got hurt and then he actually had a 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:22.240 three or four week period where he watched and he 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.040 watched other way, the Mike White era, and he watched 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:29.400 other quarterbacks just execute the offense. If you look at 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.880 the last five or six weeks of the season, no turnovers, 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.840 not as many flashy attempted plays, but as you said, 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:41.280 much more executing the offense the way that it's coached, 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:43.560 and all of a sudden won a couple of games 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.640 down the stretch, much more competitive, even in games that 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:51.680 they lost down the stretch. And look, Tom Brady probably 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:56.040 has more Lombardi trophies then he has off platform crazy 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:00.560 you know, uh, improvisational throws in his career. Right, maybe 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.560 Tom Brady has run around in the offensive backfield and 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.160 sidearmed the ball like five times in his entire career, 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.200 and he's got more Lombardi trophies than that on his mantelpiece. 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.280 So like that, you're a right, And I guess to 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.080 shift the conversation then to the current class. We talked 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.640 about Kenny Pickett last week and how he probably is 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:26.720 the most pro ready, you know, stereotypical size measurables quarterback. 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:30.000 But I mean Malik Willis came out and said, hey, look, 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.000 I should be the number one quarterback taken in this draft, 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:34.560 and he's a guy that's thought of a little bit 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:38.160 more as the improvisational guy. What do you think a 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.360 guy like that needs to show in his pro day 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.559 to maybe tell NFL teams, Look, I'm not just the 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.319 runaround back there and side on the ball forty five 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.880 yards down the field. I Am going to play quarterback 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:51.920 the way that you need to be able to be 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.920 coached to play quarterback in the NFL. It's a great question. 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.280 I don't think his pro day can show that because 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.559 one of the things that all the analytics and metrics 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.400 don't show, and I know they're showing more and more 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.640 with each year, Bob, but one of the things they 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:10.439 don't yet show are balls that should be thrown that aren't. 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.600 And when I watch tape, that is the biggest thing 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.800 that I see with quarterbacks, even at the NFL level, 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:18.800 because I've been doing this a long time, so I 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:21.640 know the route concepts, I know the defense. I know 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:24.040 that where the ball should go based on the route 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.840 concept versus a specific defense, and the biggest issue for 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:32.360 a lot of quarterbacks, young quarterbacks in particular quarterbacks that 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.400 are mobile in particular is that they leave throws on 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:39.920 the field that should be thrown, and Malik Willis won't 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.600 be able to get beyond that at his pro day 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.360 because pro day will probably be phenomenal. But when you 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.040 watch his tape, you see a Traits quarterback. He's got 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.000 a big arm. The ball just flies out of his hand. 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.240 A term I once heard from someone was he has 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.200 a hand cannon. I mean, it just comes out of 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:02.199 his hand beautifully. And he is incredibly athletic and mobile. 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.480 So he'll be able to show all that at his 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.480 pro day. What he won't be able to show is 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.360 will he stay in the pocket, Let the offense work, 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.480 deliver the ball to the right receiver at the right 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.640 time with the right kind of throw. See the field, 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.360 see it work, see the offense work against the defense. 0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:25.280 Those things you can't show at a pro day. So 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.320 my guess is his pro day will be phenomenal and 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.800 we'll be raving about it, and and probably deservedly so. 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.480 But that won't say a lot to me anyway about 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:39.760 his transition to the NFL. You know, it's amazing everything 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:44.720 that you just said can be almost retroactively looked at 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:47.120 through the lens of Zach Wilson correct right, like he's 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:52.000 got all a hand cannon, incredible athleticism, makes all of 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:55.559 those improvisational throws on his throw day, on his pro day, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.800 and looks like this magnificent athlete that can go do 0:10:58.880 --> 0:11:02.680 anything on a football fee oild and yet deliver the 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.520 ball to the receiver that you should deliver the ball 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.720 to based on the routes suncept against a certain defense. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.839 And I think we've got all of those questions still 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.120 remaining in our head about Zach Wilson even after his 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.120 rookie year. And there are a lot of times when 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.120 you go back and watch the jet tape where what 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.800 we still don't know if he's going to be able to, 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.200 you know, to do that. And just one quick point, 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.480 field vision. Field vision is something that different coaches feel 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.800 you can teach, others you can't. Some guys just see 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:34.240 it clearly, Bob, as you know you've been doing this 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.839 a long time. And other guys, no matter how much 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.080 you go over to practice on the iPad on the blackboard, 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.520 they might be great in the meeting room, but then 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.400 when they get on the field and it all has 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.440 to happen in one point five, two point one two 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:51.040 point six seconds. They just don't see it the right way. 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:53.800 So that is that's why a pro day doesn't it 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:57.720 will not tell you that, right yep. Pro day combine 0:11:57.920 --> 0:12:01.600 analyzing these prospects, it's all fascinating, and there is a 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:06.200 specific prospect that has already been talked about up and down, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.840 and the conversation got even more interesting about this guy 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.199 coming out of the combine. He might be the most interesting, 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.840 most debated, most polarizing prospect in the first round of 0:12:18.840 --> 0:12:21.240 the NFL Draft. And we're gonna talk about that guy 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:28.440 when we come back on TAPEDS draft season. Bobo shooes 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:31.880 at Greg Cosel. We are back on TAPEDS draft season, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.520 taking you right up to the NFL Draft at the 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.959 end of April. And Greg, there is a guy we've 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.680 been talking about him for and everyone in draft world 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.559 has been talking about him since the end of the 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:46.720 college football season that will maybe be as debated a 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:50.400 guy as there is in this draft heading up to 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.880 the end of April. And he's gonna be picked in 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.680 the top five to top seven picks. And that's Kyle 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:00.440 Hamilton's right. He plays the quote unquote non premium position 0:13:00.920 --> 0:13:03.679 of safety is not a pass rusher. He's not a quarterback. 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.560 He's not a cover corner, he's not a left tackle. 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.160 He doesn't he doesn't have any of those you know, 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:13.120 position values on him. But in the Jets world, I 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.960 know Robert Sala has referred to him multiple times as 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.240 the quote unquote unicorn, which makes you think of him 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.400 through a different prism. So let's let's talk about Kyle 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.199 Hamilton's as a player first, and then we'll get to 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:28.880 the debate about what happened to the combine or about 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:31.800 you know, how teams maybe should view the value of 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.720 his position. What when you see Kyle Hamilton's and you 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.280 hear someone like Robert Sala call him a unicorn, do 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.040 you agree? Is he that unique a player at that position? 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:42.880 I do? And I'm going to tell you a very 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.560 quick story. The year that Steve Spagnolo was not coaching, 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.360 after he was gone from the Giants and before Andy 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.240 Reid hired him, he uh, he had a place in 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.000 Philadelphia because his wife from Philadelphia. And he called me 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.600 and said, Hey, can I come in and watch tape 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.040 on Mondays? And I said absolutely, And we would get 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:01.280 into these great kind of stations and I learned so 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.320 much from Spags, but we would talk about certain positions 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.320 on defense, Bob, and I said to him, you know, coach, 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.360 I said, for years and years, safety was a position 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.680 just as you said, that was not viewed as a 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.800 premium position, as you know, teams would say or people 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:17.559 would say, oh, you can get a safety in the 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.160 fifth round. And SPACs said to me, well, that's great. 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.160 But the problem is is there's so many things I 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.760 can't do in my playbook if I don't have good safeties. 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.720 So if I don't have good safeties, it limits what 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.880 I can do defensively. And I never forgot that, and 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.360 people don't think of it like that about how you 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:41.600 coach in the NFL. So your safeties have become increasingly 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.960 important in the NFL. I actually asked when Dan Quinn 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:47.120 years ago when he was with the Legion of Boom 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:49.880 uh and and they were great. I said, who's the 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:52.720 most important player on your defense? And without missing a beat, 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:55.120 he said, Earl Thomas. You know, and that might not 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.080 be the first name that come up and came up 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:01.840 in people's minds, but anyway, Hamilton's Hamilton's is a unicorn. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.880 First of all, he measured over six four about two twenty. 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:09.560 He is long, he's athletic, he's a glider um. He's 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.920 a very easy mover. I know he ran a four 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:15.520 or five nine, and that's why there's this debate now, 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:17.480 and I don't know if it's truly a debate, but 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.440 he ran a four or five nine. But he plays fast, 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.680 He plays with his eyes, he has no hesitation in 0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:29.400 his reaction time and his play speed. His range is 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.000 really good. So to me, that's an example, Bob, I 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.040 would throw the four or five nine out the window. 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:37.040 I don't think it means anything. And we can keep 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:38.560 talking about him. But I feel like I've been going 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.440 on here. But but I think Hamilton's is a really, 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.400 really good prospect. Does he go on the top five? 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:46.440 I mean, is he one of the five best football 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.880 players in this draft? Do you think? I think so 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.880 based on my tape study, and again without getting into teams, 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.280 it would not surprise me, I believe it or not 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.400 at number two if the Detroit Lions would see Kyle 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:00.840 Hamilton's um as a really, you know, important piece to 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.400 their defense. They were obviously not very good on defense. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.960 Their defensive coordinators, Aaron Glenn as you know, who's a 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.760 former corner, so I'm sure he has an affinity for 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.240 the defensive backfield. Um, it would it would not surprise 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:15.920 me at all. You know, Hamilton's is a He's really 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:21.720 a multidimensional, multi positional safety. UM. Great play recognition, great 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:26.160 play speeding range. As I said, he's naturally athletic. UM 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.320 put that in a body like that six he was 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.520 I think six four and an eight to twenty at 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.760 the combine. Um, you don't see that very often. And 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.680 I thought he played with his eyes and saw things. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.080 It's funny we were talking about that with quarterbacks, but 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.520 safeties are very much the quarterback of the defense in 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.200 that regard because they they see everything unless they're playing 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.440 in the box, but if they're playing a little deeper, 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.880 they see everything. And I thought he played really fast 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.400 with his eyes and that resulted in quick reactions and 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.000 that maximized his play speed and range. Yeah, I think 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.000 it brings it to the larger conversation, as you said, 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.280 of the importance of the safety and what Spags told you, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.200 Because I've worked a lot of college football games with 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.960 a lot of quarterbacks. Right when we are watching tape, 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.520 all they're looking out of the safeties right, Where are 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.520 the safeties? What are they? How are they lined up? 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:17.280 Are they on the hash? Are they off the hash? 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.520 Is a safety down in the box? Is a safety 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.520 playing deep? Middle? Is at middlefield? Open? Is it middlefield closed? 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:26.240 Based purely on the positioning of those safeties. Now, having 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.480 said that, the best way you can disguise what you're 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:33.159 doing is if you've got a safety that has the athleticism, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.200 got the mental capacity, the brains, the football knowledge, um, 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:41.800 you know, the savvy nous, the ability to completely change 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:44.959 the pre snap post snap picture because he can do 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.439 all of those things and then can go make the 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.280 crazy play. And Kyle Hamilton's he can do all of 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.199 that right like he checks every single box. So the 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:56.160 now living in the New York market, of course, looking 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.080 at it through the Jets lens, there's this you know, 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.160 recency by s of it was a disaster ultimately with 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:06.840 you know the Jamal Adams Marcus Maitre draft. They just 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.800 don't want a safety, well, they want they want an 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.440 edge rusher, they want another tackle, they want a big 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.520 wide receiver. Because the last time that they draft that 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.399 the Jets drafted safeties at the top of the draft. 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:23.240 It didn't work out. Is Kyle Hamilton's different you know? 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.600 I mean, is he just a different breed at that 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.560 position than even the other top safeties that we've seen 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.480 go in the top ten or fifteen picks in recent years. 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.040 Might be Well, it's the length, the movement, and the eyes. 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:37.639 I mean, Kyle Hamilton's is a far better prospect than 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.560 Jamal Adams. And they Jets draft to Jamal Adams with 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:42.920 the sixth pick. Correct, I believe there was the sixth 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.800 picks in the draft. And Jamal Adams is ultimately more 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.360 of a will linebacker than he is a true safety. 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.240 Kyle Hamilton's is a safety and safeties. You made a 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.200 great point about the way offense is taught, and that's 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.040 why for people who say the safety position isn't that important. 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:03.280 If you talked a coach, an offensive coach, the way 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.960 they start with quarterbacks, and this is the just the basics, 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:10.560 but they start with middle open, middle closed. That's the 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:12.720 first thing they start with. And by that we mean 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.080 are you playing with a single high safety in the 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.160 middle of the field or are you playing with two 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:19.920 deep safety who are split. So if it's a single 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.960 high safety, the middle is closed. If it's too split safeties, 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:27.280 the middles open. That's how they start with quarterbacks. So 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.560 safeties are really the defining feature of how offenses start 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:35.359 with their quarterbacks. So safeties are really important. Then the 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.480 other factor is with the influx of really athletic tight ends. 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.280 And this even gets down to the college game. Now 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.080 when we will deal tight ends in a in a 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:48.600 future podcast, is now you have more and more tight ends, Bob, 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.880 as you know doing college football who are essentially split receivers. 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.360 You know you don't see as many tight ends coming 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.440 into the NFL game who are simply attached tight ends 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.960 next to the tackle, because that's not the way college 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.240 football is played. So what do safeties now have to do? 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.080 Safeties now have to be able to match up man 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:12.200 to man on quality athletic tight ends. If you can't 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.440 match up to the Darren Wallers, the Travis Kelsey's, the 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:18.439 Kyle Pits of the world, then you can't play in 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.560 today's NFL. Then that limits what a coach can do. 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.280 A defensive coordinator can do with his defensive playbook. It 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.720 forces him to do things that he probably doesn't want 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:32.120 to do, minimizes what he can do. Offenses know that 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.800 and offenses have an easier, relatively speaking, easier way of 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:39.440 attacking that defense. Yeah, we're gonna talk about the side 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.040 ends you said the future episode. But like Pitts as 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.720 a freak obviously. Yeah, but another guy that leaps to 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:49.320 mind called his college games like Mike Kasicki. I mean, 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.560 the only thing that makes a Pitts or a Gasicki 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.800 a tight end as opposed to a slot receiver is 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.760 there like three or four inches taller and about twenty 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:02.600 years five or thirty pounds heavier than a wide receiver 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.200