Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of tape Head's Draft Season. Bobo
Speaker 1: shusan longtime radio voice of the New York Jets in
Speaker 1: a longtime college football play by play man for ESPN,
Speaker 1: joined as always by Greg co Selho for over forty years,
Speaker 1: has been breaking down the all twenty two and diving
Speaker 1: deeper behind the xs and ohs than anyone in NFL films,
Speaker 1: and this is his wheelhouse. It is trying to bring
Speaker 1: you kind of a behind the scenes, through the weeds
Speaker 1: look at the NFL Draft in a different way than
Speaker 1: other podcasts or anything else you're gonna hear about the
Speaker 1: draft anywhere else brings you. We're not doing mock drafts,
Speaker 1: were not doing trade scenarios. We are trying to bring
Speaker 1: you a more realistic look at the way teams approached
Speaker 1: the draft and also a much deeper dive into these
Speaker 1: prospects on a week by week basis. And Greg, let's
Speaker 1: start coming out of the combine with that as a
Speaker 1: kind of a general scope, and we're going to get
Speaker 1: to a guy coming up in the next segment that
Speaker 1: I think might be the most fascinating prospect in the
Speaker 1: entire NFL draft. Uh And a guy that's going to
Speaker 1: be debated back and forth. You know, it's gonna go
Speaker 1: probably in the top five to seven picks where he goes,
Speaker 1: who picks him. We're gonna get to that all a
Speaker 1: very interesting discussion, and up you could probably figure out
Speaker 1: who I'm talking about, because he is a polarizing conversation
Speaker 1: right now, certainly in New York. But how polarizing are
Speaker 1: the conversations coming out of the combine When guys run
Speaker 1: a tick of a forty time less than you expected
Speaker 1: them to, a tick of a shuttle run less than
Speaker 1: you expected them to. I mean, were there were there
Speaker 1: guys that you know, surprised people positively or negatively at
Speaker 1: the combine that you think just the combine might overrate
Speaker 1: one way or the other. Well, I think what always
Speaker 1: happens is, as you know, Bob, the forty yard dash
Speaker 1: time is sort of you know, it's like in the
Speaker 1: old Miss America, you know, the swimsuit competition. Everybody judges
Speaker 1: everything by that, you know, so when a guy runs
Speaker 1: a really fast forty, that's what gets talked about. So
Speaker 1: if a guy doesn't run a fast forty, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna get to a particular player here in a position momentarily,
Speaker 1: but when a guy doesn't run a fast forty all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, there's this collective sense, maybe not by teams,
Speaker 1: but just in the way it's presented, you know, whether
Speaker 1: it's on social media, just the way it's talked about
Speaker 1: on you know, sports talk radio, that oh my god,
Speaker 1: what's the problem. And I think that's the forty time
Speaker 1: is the thing that seems to you know, move the
Speaker 1: needle one way or the other, and it it gets
Speaker 1: so removed from the football part of the equation, the
Speaker 1: actual player on tape, that it seems as if it's
Speaker 1: just a separate entity and you know, with a life
Speaker 1: of its own. And you have to be really careful
Speaker 1: about forty times impacting what you've seen on tape with players.
Speaker 1: And how about the quarterbacks and the top of the
Speaker 1: draft quarterbacks don't even throw anymore or performally at the combine.
Speaker 1: They go there, they'll you measure the hands and feet
Speaker 1: in height and weight, and then they leave um or
Speaker 1: they do some interviews with teams, but you know, they
Speaker 1: have kind of their doctored, manufactured pro days that acts
Speaker 1: as their combine. How about the evolution of that How
Speaker 1: hard it is to take anything out of what we
Speaker 1: either see from the measurables of the combine or these
Speaker 1: pro days that these guys have on their own campuses.
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you mentioned that. It just reminded
Speaker 1: me immediately of last year's pro day with Zach Wilson,
Speaker 1: your guy, you know, and and remember when he had
Speaker 1: the pro day and he ended up by running to
Speaker 1: his left and throwing the ball, you know, fifty yards
Speaker 1: in the air. You know, that was you know, it's funny, said,
Speaker 1: it's funny you bring this example up. Scott p Oli
Speaker 1: during the season on our regular old tape Peds podcast
Speaker 1: basically said exactly what you are saying, that, like, maybe
Speaker 1: the worst thing that ever happened to Zach Wilson was
Speaker 1: that throw on his pro dat. Well, what I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, and I don't know what Scott said about it,
Speaker 1: but when I saw that and then it made the
Speaker 1: rounds on social media, was I said to myself, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a hundred quarterbacks that could have done that, and
Speaker 1: they made it seem like Zack Wilson was the only
Speaker 1: quarterback that could have done that. There's a hundred quarterbacks
Speaker 1: that could have done that. Uh, and you know, we
Speaker 1: get so caught up in the moment, not you know,
Speaker 1: just as an aside. You know, we've seen Patrick Mahomes
Speaker 1: the last what three years, I guess he's been a
Speaker 1: starter now four years, but you know we've seen him
Speaker 1: with those trick shot throws and everybody goes crazy. You know,
Speaker 1: Matthew Stafford was doing trick shot throws ten years ago
Speaker 1: with the Detroit Lions, but because he was playing with
Speaker 1: the Detroit Lions, a bob, no one said a word
Speaker 1: about it. You know, So we get caught up in
Speaker 1: the moment. But when Wilson made that throw, and your
Speaker 1: point is probably very valid that people got so excited
Speaker 1: about Wilson, but there's a hundred quarterbacks that could have
Speaker 1: done that. Yea, and not only I think that The
Speaker 1: point that Scott made um during the season when there
Speaker 1: were times where Zach Wilson was trying a lot of
Speaker 1: the off platform crazy yes you know, hero ball throws,
Speaker 1: was maybe he was trying to live up to all
Speaker 1: of the hype that that crazy Pro Day throw create
Speaker 1: rather than just go play simple, just find your check down.
Speaker 1: It's okay, it's okay to throw the ball in a
Speaker 1: traditional way over the shoulder to a guy that's five
Speaker 1: yards away, let him pick up five or six more
Speaker 1: yards for you and make it second down and four.
Speaker 1: That's a good way to play quarterback in the NFL sometimes.
Speaker 1: And uh, and you're right. I mean I think he
Speaker 1: wasn't away a victim of his own pro day because,
Speaker 1: as you said, all of the hype gets into and
Speaker 1: he sees those headlines, he hears it. He knows he's
Speaker 1: expected now to go to New York and put on
Speaker 1: a show, and now he's trying to do that in
Speaker 1: the NFL. And boy, as a rookie that that can
Speaker 1: backfire on you. You know, it's pretty amazing. And you
Speaker 1: kind of hit on something that I've talked about for
Speaker 1: years and years is the idea that the job of
Speaker 1: the quarterback is to execute the offense as it's coached
Speaker 1: and taught. You know, we may have said this before,
Speaker 1: but no coach rolls out the ball in practice and says,
Speaker 1: let's run around and see if we can make a
Speaker 1: play today. That's not the way the position is taught.
Speaker 1: But because of highlights social media, we get all excited
Speaker 1: on on these improvisational plays, and I think so many
Speaker 1: people get caught up into thinking that's the way to
Speaker 1: play quarterback now that you have to be able to
Speaker 1: run around and make plays. Now, no one would say
Speaker 1: that if you have mobility, that's a bad thing. But
Speaker 1: mobility must be secondary to the ability to efficiently execute
Speaker 1: the structure of the offense snap after snap. And I
Speaker 1: don't know Zack Wilson. You obviously do. I never met
Speaker 1: him individually, but one of the big concerns I remember
Speaker 1: when he came out a year ago. Everybody saw the live,
Speaker 1: loose arm, everybody saw the light feet, but there was
Speaker 1: a concern that he was too much of a trick
Speaker 1: shot artist and he needed to play within the structure
Speaker 1: of an offense. As you know, Bob, coaches work sixteen
Speaker 1: seventeen hours a day doing this. They want the quarterback
Speaker 1: to execute what is taught and coach not run around improvisationally. Well,
Speaker 1: it's funny because first part of the season last year
Speaker 1: he was that guy, right, and they had a game
Speaker 1: against Tennessee where he threw like a fifty yard side
Speaker 1: arm touchdown. Remember a place went crazy, but most of
Speaker 1: the time, most of the time they were losing. Um.
Speaker 1: Then he got hurt and then he actually had a
Speaker 1: three or four week period where he watched and he
Speaker 1: watched other way, the Mike White era, and he watched
Speaker 1: other quarterbacks just execute the offense. If you look at
Speaker 1: the last five or six weeks of the season, no turnovers,
Speaker 1: not as many flashy attempted plays, but as you said,
Speaker 1: much more executing the offense the way that it's coached,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden won a couple of games
Speaker 1: down the stretch, much more competitive, even in games that
Speaker 1: they lost down the stretch. And look, Tom Brady probably
Speaker 1: has more Lombardi trophies then he has off platform crazy
Speaker 1: you know, uh, improvisational throws in his career. Right, maybe
Speaker 1: Tom Brady has run around in the offensive backfield and
Speaker 1: sidearmed the ball like five times in his entire career,
Speaker 1: and he's got more Lombardi trophies than that on his mantelpiece.
Speaker 1: So like that, you're a right, And I guess to
Speaker 1: shift the conversation then to the current class. We talked
Speaker 1: about Kenny Pickett last week and how he probably is
Speaker 1: the most pro ready, you know, stereotypical size measurables quarterback.
Speaker 1: But I mean Malik Willis came out and said, hey, look,
Speaker 1: I should be the number one quarterback taken in this draft,
Speaker 1: and he's a guy that's thought of a little bit
Speaker 1: more as the improvisational guy. What do you think a
Speaker 1: guy like that needs to show in his pro day
Speaker 1: to maybe tell NFL teams, Look, I'm not just the
Speaker 1: runaround back there and side on the ball forty five
Speaker 1: yards down the field. I Am going to play quarterback
Speaker 1: the way that you need to be able to be
Speaker 1: coached to play quarterback in the NFL. It's a great question.
Speaker 1: I don't think his pro day can show that because
Speaker 1: one of the things that all the analytics and metrics
Speaker 1: don't show, and I know they're showing more and more
Speaker 1: with each year, Bob, but one of the things they
Speaker 1: don't yet show are balls that should be thrown that aren't.
Speaker 1: And when I watch tape, that is the biggest thing
Speaker 1: that I see with quarterbacks, even at the NFL level,
Speaker 1: because I've been doing this a long time, so I
Speaker 1: know the route concepts, I know the defense. I know
Speaker 1: that where the ball should go based on the route
Speaker 1: concept versus a specific defense, and the biggest issue for
Speaker 1: a lot of quarterbacks, young quarterbacks in particular quarterbacks that
Speaker 1: are mobile in particular is that they leave throws on
Speaker 1: the field that should be thrown, and Malik Willis won't
Speaker 1: be able to get beyond that at his pro day
Speaker 1: because pro day will probably be phenomenal. But when you
Speaker 1: watch his tape, you see a Traits quarterback. He's got
Speaker 1: a big arm. The ball just flies out of his hand.
Speaker 1: A term I once heard from someone was he has
Speaker 1: a hand cannon. I mean, it just comes out of
Speaker 1: his hand beautifully. And he is incredibly athletic and mobile.
Speaker 1: So he'll be able to show all that at his
Speaker 1: pro day. What he won't be able to show is
Speaker 1: will he stay in the pocket, Let the offense work,
Speaker 1: deliver the ball to the right receiver at the right
Speaker 1: time with the right kind of throw. See the field,
Speaker 1: see it work, see the offense work against the defense.
Speaker 1: Those things you can't show at a pro day. So
Speaker 1: my guess is his pro day will be phenomenal and
Speaker 1: we'll be raving about it, and and probably deservedly so.
Speaker 1: But that won't say a lot to me anyway about
Speaker 1: his transition to the NFL. You know, it's amazing everything
Speaker 1: that you just said can be almost retroactively looked at
Speaker 1: through the lens of Zach Wilson correct right, like he's
Speaker 1: got all a hand cannon, incredible athleticism, makes all of
Speaker 1: those improvisational throws on his throw day, on his pro day,
Speaker 1: and looks like this magnificent athlete that can go do
Speaker 1: anything on a football fee oild and yet deliver the
Speaker 1: ball to the receiver that you should deliver the ball
Speaker 1: to based on the routes suncept against a certain defense.
Speaker 1: And I think we've got all of those questions still
Speaker 1: remaining in our head about Zach Wilson even after his
Speaker 1: rookie year. And there are a lot of times when
Speaker 1: you go back and watch the jet tape where what
Speaker 1: we still don't know if he's going to be able to,
Speaker 1: you know, to do that. And just one quick point,
Speaker 1: field vision. Field vision is something that different coaches feel
Speaker 1: you can teach, others you can't. Some guys just see
Speaker 1: it clearly, Bob, as you know you've been doing this
Speaker 1: a long time. And other guys, no matter how much
Speaker 1: you go over to practice on the iPad on the blackboard,
Speaker 1: they might be great in the meeting room, but then
Speaker 1: when they get on the field and it all has
Speaker 1: to happen in one point five, two point one two
Speaker 1: point six seconds. They just don't see it the right way.
Speaker 1: So that is that's why a pro day doesn't it
Speaker 1: will not tell you that, right yep. Pro day combine
Speaker 1: analyzing these prospects, it's all fascinating, and there is a
Speaker 1: specific prospect that has already been talked about up and down,
Speaker 1: and the conversation got even more interesting about this guy
Speaker 1: coming out of the combine. He might be the most interesting,
Speaker 1: most debated, most polarizing prospect in the first round of
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft. And we're gonna talk about that guy
Speaker 1: when we come back on TAPEDS draft season. Bobo shooes
Speaker 1: at Greg Cosel. We are back on TAPEDS draft season,
Speaker 1: taking you right up to the NFL Draft at the
Speaker 1: end of April. And Greg, there is a guy we've
Speaker 1: been talking about him for and everyone in draft world
Speaker 1: has been talking about him since the end of the
Speaker 1: college football season that will maybe be as debated a
Speaker 1: guy as there is in this draft heading up to
Speaker 1: the end of April. And he's gonna be picked in
Speaker 1: the top five to top seven picks. And that's Kyle
Speaker 1: Hamilton's right. He plays the quote unquote non premium position
Speaker 1: of safety is not a pass rusher. He's not a quarterback.
Speaker 1: He's not a cover corner, he's not a left tackle.
Speaker 1: He doesn't he doesn't have any of those you know,
Speaker 1: position values on him. But in the Jets world, I
Speaker 1: know Robert Sala has referred to him multiple times as
Speaker 1: the quote unquote unicorn, which makes you think of him
Speaker 1: through a different prism. So let's let's talk about Kyle
Speaker 1: Hamilton's as a player first, and then we'll get to
Speaker 1: the debate about what happened to the combine or about
Speaker 1: you know, how teams maybe should view the value of
Speaker 1: his position. What when you see Kyle Hamilton's and you
Speaker 1: hear someone like Robert Sala call him a unicorn, do
Speaker 1: you agree? Is he that unique a player at that position?
Speaker 1: I do? And I'm going to tell you a very
Speaker 1: quick story. The year that Steve Spagnolo was not coaching,
Speaker 1: after he was gone from the Giants and before Andy
Speaker 1: Reid hired him, he uh, he had a place in
Speaker 1: Philadelphia because his wife from Philadelphia. And he called me
Speaker 1: and said, Hey, can I come in and watch tape
Speaker 1: on Mondays? And I said absolutely, And we would get
Speaker 1: into these great kind of stations and I learned so
Speaker 1: much from Spags, but we would talk about certain positions
Speaker 1: on defense, Bob, and I said to him, you know, coach,
Speaker 1: I said, for years and years, safety was a position
Speaker 1: just as you said, that was not viewed as a
Speaker 1: premium position, as you know, teams would say or people
Speaker 1: would say, oh, you can get a safety in the
Speaker 1: fifth round. And SPACs said to me, well, that's great.
Speaker 1: But the problem is is there's so many things I
Speaker 1: can't do in my playbook if I don't have good safeties.
Speaker 1: So if I don't have good safeties, it limits what
Speaker 1: I can do defensively. And I never forgot that, and
Speaker 1: people don't think of it like that about how you
Speaker 1: coach in the NFL. So your safeties have become increasingly
Speaker 1: important in the NFL. I actually asked when Dan Quinn
Speaker 1: years ago when he was with the Legion of Boom
Speaker 1: uh and and they were great. I said, who's the
Speaker 1: most important player on your defense? And without missing a beat,
Speaker 1: he said, Earl Thomas. You know, and that might not
Speaker 1: be the first name that come up and came up
Speaker 1: in people's minds, but anyway, Hamilton's Hamilton's is a unicorn.
Speaker 1: First of all, he measured over six four about two twenty.
Speaker 1: He is long, he's athletic, he's a glider um. He's
Speaker 1: a very easy mover. I know he ran a four
Speaker 1: or five nine, and that's why there's this debate now,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's truly a debate, but
Speaker 1: he ran a four or five nine. But he plays fast,
Speaker 1: He plays with his eyes, he has no hesitation in
Speaker 1: his reaction time and his play speed. His range is
Speaker 1: really good. So to me, that's an example, Bob, I
Speaker 1: would throw the four or five nine out the window.
Speaker 1: I don't think it means anything. And we can keep
Speaker 1: talking about him. But I feel like I've been going
Speaker 1: on here. But but I think Hamilton's is a really,
Speaker 1: really good prospect. Does he go on the top five?
Speaker 1: I mean, is he one of the five best football
Speaker 1: players in this draft? Do you think? I think so
Speaker 1: based on my tape study, and again without getting into teams,
Speaker 1: it would not surprise me, I believe it or not
Speaker 1: at number two if the Detroit Lions would see Kyle
Speaker 1: Hamilton's um as a really, you know, important piece to
Speaker 1: their defense. They were obviously not very good on defense.
Speaker 1: Their defensive coordinators, Aaron Glenn as you know, who's a
Speaker 1: former corner, so I'm sure he has an affinity for
Speaker 1: the defensive backfield. Um, it would it would not surprise
Speaker 1: me at all. You know, Hamilton's is a He's really
Speaker 1: a multidimensional, multi positional safety. UM. Great play recognition, great
Speaker 1: play speeding range. As I said, he's naturally athletic. UM
Speaker 1: put that in a body like that six he was
Speaker 1: I think six four and an eight to twenty at
Speaker 1: the combine. Um, you don't see that very often. And
Speaker 1: I thought he played with his eyes and saw things.
Speaker 1: It's funny we were talking about that with quarterbacks, but
Speaker 1: safeties are very much the quarterback of the defense in
Speaker 1: that regard because they they see everything unless they're playing
Speaker 1: in the box, but if they're playing a little deeper,
Speaker 1: they see everything. And I thought he played really fast
Speaker 1: with his eyes and that resulted in quick reactions and
Speaker 1: that maximized his play speed and range. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it brings it to the larger conversation, as you said,
Speaker 1: of the importance of the safety and what Spags told you,
Speaker 1: Because I've worked a lot of college football games with
Speaker 1: a lot of quarterbacks. Right when we are watching tape,
Speaker 1: all they're looking out of the safeties right, Where are
Speaker 1: the safeties? What are they? How are they lined up?
Speaker 1: Are they on the hash? Are they off the hash?
Speaker 1: Is a safety down in the box? Is a safety
Speaker 1: playing deep? Middle? Is at middlefield? Open? Is it middlefield closed?
Speaker 1: Based purely on the positioning of those safeties. Now, having
Speaker 1: said that, the best way you can disguise what you're
Speaker 1: doing is if you've got a safety that has the athleticism,
Speaker 1: got the mental capacity, the brains, the football knowledge, um,
Speaker 1: you know, the savvy nous, the ability to completely change
Speaker 1: the pre snap post snap picture because he can do
Speaker 1: all of those things and then can go make the
Speaker 1: crazy play. And Kyle Hamilton's he can do all of
Speaker 1: that right like he checks every single box. So the
Speaker 1: now living in the New York market, of course, looking
Speaker 1: at it through the Jets lens, there's this you know,
Speaker 1: recency by s of it was a disaster ultimately with
Speaker 1: you know the Jamal Adams Marcus Maitre draft. They just
Speaker 1: don't want a safety, well, they want they want an
Speaker 1: edge rusher, they want another tackle, they want a big
Speaker 1: wide receiver. Because the last time that they draft that
Speaker 1: the Jets drafted safeties at the top of the draft.
Speaker 1: It didn't work out. Is Kyle Hamilton's different you know?
Speaker 1: I mean, is he just a different breed at that
Speaker 1: position than even the other top safeties that we've seen
Speaker 1: go in the top ten or fifteen picks in recent years.
Speaker 1: Might be Well, it's the length, the movement, and the eyes.
Speaker 1: I mean, Kyle Hamilton's is a far better prospect than
Speaker 1: Jamal Adams. And they Jets draft to Jamal Adams with
Speaker 1: the sixth pick. Correct, I believe there was the sixth
Speaker 1: picks in the draft. And Jamal Adams is ultimately more
Speaker 1: of a will linebacker than he is a true safety.
Speaker 1: Kyle Hamilton's is a safety and safeties. You made a
Speaker 1: great point about the way offense is taught, and that's
Speaker 1: why for people who say the safety position isn't that important.
Speaker 1: If you talked a coach, an offensive coach, the way
Speaker 1: they start with quarterbacks, and this is the just the basics,
Speaker 1: but they start with middle open, middle closed. That's the
Speaker 1: first thing they start with. And by that we mean
Speaker 1: are you playing with a single high safety in the
Speaker 1: middle of the field or are you playing with two
Speaker 1: deep safety who are split. So if it's a single
Speaker 1: high safety, the middle is closed. If it's too split safeties,
Speaker 1: the middles open. That's how they start with quarterbacks. So
Speaker 1: safeties are really the defining feature of how offenses start
Speaker 1: with their quarterbacks. So safeties are really important. Then the
Speaker 1: other factor is with the influx of really athletic tight ends.
Speaker 1: And this even gets down to the college game. Now
Speaker 1: when we will deal tight ends in a in a
Speaker 1: future podcast, is now you have more and more tight ends, Bob,
Speaker 1: as you know doing college football who are essentially split receivers.
Speaker 1: You know you don't see as many tight ends coming
Speaker 1: into the NFL game who are simply attached tight ends
Speaker 1: next to the tackle, because that's not the way college
Speaker 1: football is played. So what do safeties now have to do?
Speaker 1: Safeties now have to be able to match up man
Speaker 1: to man on quality athletic tight ends. If you can't
Speaker 1: match up to the Darren Wallers, the Travis Kelsey's, the
Speaker 1: Kyle Pits of the world, then you can't play in
Speaker 1: today's NFL. Then that limits what a coach can do.
Speaker 1: A defensive coordinator can do with his defensive playbook. It
Speaker 1: forces him to do things that he probably doesn't want
Speaker 1: to do, minimizes what he can do. Offenses know that
Speaker 1: and offenses have an easier, relatively speaking, easier way of
Speaker 1: attacking that defense. Yeah, we're gonna talk about the side
Speaker 1: ends you said the future episode. But like Pitts as
Speaker 1: a freak obviously. Yeah, but another guy that leaps to
Speaker 1: mind called his college games like Mike Kasicki. I mean,
Speaker 1: the only thing that makes a Pitts or a Gasicki
Speaker 1: a tight end as opposed to a slot receiver is
Speaker 1: there like three or four inches taller and about twenty
Speaker 1: years five or thirty pounds heavier than a wide receiver
Speaker 1: normally measures right, I mean, they play wide receiver, they
Speaker 1: play slot. They sometimes they flex out there many times
Speaker 1: in many of these formations just to try and create
Speaker 1: a matchup. The tight end is the furthest flex stile
Speaker 1: player on the field. He's like the X receiver and
Speaker 1: your normal lex receiver is the guy on the slot.
Speaker 1: That's right, And you know this because you do the Jets.
Speaker 1: So you played Miami twice, but the Miami played almost
Speaker 1: every snap with two tight ends, and Gasecki was essentially
Speaker 1: a wide receiver in that twelve personnel package. He he
Speaker 1: was the split receiver. It was the other tight end,
Speaker 1: Smith who was essentially the attached tight end. But Gasecki
Speaker 1: was essentially a big wide receiver. And that's what that's
Speaker 1: what the college game is putting out. I mean, unless
Speaker 1: you're talking about and there's always a few teams. I
Speaker 1: can think of some in the Big Ten, you know,
Speaker 1: the Wisconsins, the Iowa's. I'm sure there's others that don't
Speaker 1: immediately come to my mind, but most college teams now
Speaker 1: are more spread off. Is the player who's listed as
Speaker 1: the tight end is rarely an attached player right next
Speaker 1: to a tackle. He's a split player, detached from the formation.
Speaker 1: So that's the way he comes into the NFL. You've
Speaker 1: got to match up to those players on defense, and
Speaker 1: you're not gonna do it really with linebackers. Some can obviously,
Speaker 1: but you need safeties who can match up man to
Speaker 1: man to tight ends. Every coach would like a safety
Speaker 1: that's interchangeable, meaning they can play down in the box,
Speaker 1: they can bump out over a slot, they can play
Speaker 1: outside over a tight end, and they can play post safety.
Speaker 1: That's what coaches really want with their safeties now. And
Speaker 1: so you're saying, and I think, if you know, kind
Speaker 1: of encapsulate the conversation specifically about Kyle Hamilton's that the
Speaker 1: position of safety, considering how the you know, the evolution,
Speaker 1: and again we've returned to this incredible importance of the
Speaker 1: tight end. Like when I was growing up, it was
Speaker 1: Kellen Winslow who like acted like a wide receiver and
Speaker 1: basically everybody else was like a big, hulking body that
Speaker 1: blocked on a lot of scrimmage and occasionally would catch
Speaker 1: a ball out in the flat. But you didn't have
Speaker 1: these strun the seams stretched the field act as a
Speaker 1: wide receiver tight end that if you take Kyle Hamilton's
Speaker 1: in the top three or four picks of this draft,
Speaker 1: you're getting an incredibly important football player at a position
Speaker 1: that maybe should be given more respect. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: And by the way, you were not doing the Jets
Speaker 1: at this time, but Kyle Brady was a top fifteen
Speaker 1: pick in the draft and he was basically another offensive tackle. Today,
Speaker 1: Kyle Brady would probably be a sixth round pick. Because
Speaker 1: of the nature of the tight end position and the
Speaker 1: game is cyclical. As we've discussed numerous times, safeties are
Speaker 1: incredibly important in today's defense. You had to go there,
Speaker 1: does that really where you like you know, we were
Speaker 1: getting along so well and you had to go there,
Speaker 1: you had to go to Kyle. That hurts, actually, Like
Speaker 1: that's what I'm not sorry about that, but I was
Speaker 1: just trying to I was just trying to make your
Speaker 1: point taking Maybe we can have a fullback conversation at
Speaker 1: some point. You can bring up Roger Vick too, to
Speaker 1: make me even happier. Alright, one of the biggest discussions
Speaker 1: at the NFL Combine. We're gonna get Greg's thoughts about
Speaker 1: a discussion at the combine that it should it or
Speaker 1: should it not be important? That's gonna come up when
Speaker 1: we wrap up this episode of TAPEDS Draft Season. We
Speaker 1: are back wrapping up this week's editions of TAPEDS Draft
Speaker 1: Season Bobo Schusan, Greg Coseell coming off the NFL Combine,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna take you all the way up until
Speaker 1: Draft Day and try and crawl beneath the draft and
Speaker 1: behind the XS and oh is like no other podcast
Speaker 1: out there. And Greg, I think to that point, overrated, underrated,
Speaker 1: extremely important, not that important things that come out of
Speaker 1: the combine. And one that we talked about just going
Speaker 1: to break was Kenny Pickett right that his hand size
Speaker 1: how important or unimportant that is, and just generally speaking
Speaker 1: through the lens of picket, but with quarterbacks in general,
Speaker 1: and how much does it sway a team in their
Speaker 1: draft room when all of a sudden the guy's hand
Speaker 1: size is, you know, an inch caffid inch shorter than
Speaker 1: you expected, it would be well need to us to say, Bob.
Speaker 1: I asked people about that at the combine because, as
Speaker 1: we've discussed and in a previous podcast, I very much
Speaker 1: liked Kenny Pickett's tape and I think he's the number
Speaker 1: one quarterback prospect in this draft. So I wanted to
Speaker 1: get a feel from people smarter than myself who do
Speaker 1: this for a living and have to, you know, evaluate
Speaker 1: these guys and maybe pick a player. And the feeling
Speaker 1: was was basically this that if you really like Kenny
Speaker 1: Pickett's tape. And one of the things that really stood
Speaker 1: out when I asked coaches about Kenny Pickett, and obviously
Speaker 1: we're doing a podcast where you can't see me, but
Speaker 1: the first thing they did was they pointed to their
Speaker 1: head and you know, obviously you can't see that on
Speaker 1: a podcast, and they said, this guy is wired exactly right.
Speaker 1: He's incredibly smart, he gets everything. So they said, if
Speaker 1: you really like everything about Kenny Picket, the hand size
Speaker 1: is irrelevant. They said, if you don't like something about
Speaker 1: Picket and you're struggling with him, you might bring the
Speaker 1: hand size in is something that you're going to have
Speaker 1: a conversation about, but it would never be a deal
Speaker 1: breaker if you really like everything else. Well, this of
Speaker 1: course is a podcast where again you're not going to
Speaker 1: get the this is the greatest thing I've ever seen
Speaker 1: or this is the best. I mean, were like, if
Speaker 1: we say something really struck you it, it will take
Speaker 1: it seriously. Because you've been going to the combine for
Speaker 1: a long time, and you said this past weekend there
Speaker 1: was something specific to when the big boys on the
Speaker 1: defensive line went out there and tested that that strong
Speaker 1: It seemed to strike a lot of people, but it
Speaker 1: really made an imprint on you. You have been going
Speaker 1: to the combine I believe since Bob and obviously we
Speaker 1: all missed last year. But um, you know, being in
Speaker 1: the Dome on Saturday night when the d lineman and
Speaker 1: linebackers worked out, I mean I was blown away just
Speaker 1: by sheer athleticism of these players. Now, obviously they work
Speaker 1: on this. The advances in training and technology have been
Speaker 1: so great over the last number of years. But still,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I'm not the first one saying this,
Speaker 1: but when Davis from Georgia at six six plus three
Speaker 1: forty pounds that's was his official height and weight, he
Speaker 1: ran a four seven to forty. Think about that for
Speaker 1: a second, Bob. You know, I remember when I was
Speaker 1: in college, which of course was in the Stone Age.
Speaker 1: You know, I think they just got indoor plumbing at
Speaker 1: that point. But I ran I had to run a
Speaker 1: forty for playing baseball in college, and I ran a
Speaker 1: four eight, and I thought that was pretty good, you know.
Speaker 1: And here's a guy three hundred and forty pounds and
Speaker 1: he ran a four seven too. But overall, just watching
Speaker 1: these athletes move, I mean, and again you can get
Speaker 1: into that same debate about what does that mean as
Speaker 1: far as playing football, but there's no question you'd much
Speaker 1: prefer big, fast athletes than smaller, slower athletes. So I was,
Speaker 1: I was truly blown away and enjoyed watching it so much.
Speaker 1: For those you know, seven hours or whatever it was
Speaker 1: in the Dome on Saturday, late afternoon into evening, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just flat out steal this from someone off of Twitter.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I can't give credit. I don't remember
Speaker 1: who put it out there, but it was through the
Speaker 1: lens of Jordan Davis running a four seven two. I
Speaker 1: think somebody posted the Jerry Rice ran four seven one
Speaker 1: and Jordan Davis at six six three forty ran four
Speaker 1: seven two. Now that's a really slow time for Jerry
Speaker 1: Rice at the same but if you think about that,
Speaker 1: like your six six three forty, you basically ran the
Speaker 1: same forty times. Jerry Rice, well, you know ran a
Speaker 1: four seven two when I was in the dome when
Speaker 1: he did it, and Kuan Bolden ran a four seven
Speaker 1: to and I remember my I remember there was a
Speaker 1: collective sigh in the dome with people whispering that, oh,
Speaker 1: this guy will never make it in the NFL. And
Speaker 1: I know we spoke about receivers earlier this week in
Speaker 1: our in our podcast, but you know, it just all
Speaker 1: that it almost makes the point, taking nothing away from Davis,
Speaker 1: but it makes the point when you just returning to
Speaker 1: receivers for a moment. You know, Cooper cup ran a
Speaker 1: four six to. You know about what the receiver position is,
Speaker 1: and that while we had all these guys. I think
Speaker 1: there were fifteen receivers who ran under four four, and
Speaker 1: everybody gets excited about that. And like I said, is
Speaker 1: it better to have a guy run of four or
Speaker 1: three eight? Maybe that a four six maybe, but that
Speaker 1: automatically does not make someone a great receiver. And you know,
Speaker 1: he here's Bolden who ran a four seven to arguably
Speaker 1: a Hall of Fame type player. Cooper Cup four six too,
Speaker 1: had a pretty good year this past year, as I recall, um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, not bad. Yeah, So I mean I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, it gets into this the details,
Speaker 1: the nuances, the subtleties of every position and why players
Speaker 1: can be good. You know, we we talked with receivers
Speaker 1: about stride lanes, something probably not a lot of people
Speaker 1: think about. You talk about receivers with their ability to
Speaker 1: set up corners and move them off their spot, probably
Speaker 1: something not a lot of people talk about. These are
Speaker 1: the details, the nuances, the disciplines of that position. There's
Speaker 1: all of that at every position. And while I was
Speaker 1: blown away by the athleticism, truly blown away. Not every
Speaker 1: one of those guys, as we know, is going to
Speaker 1: be an All Pro player in the NFL. And and
Speaker 1: you know what, not every guy is gonna make it
Speaker 1: to the NFL. But it also does speak in wrapping
Speaker 1: up this edition of tape Ed Draft Season that the
Speaker 1: game has changed and you have to change with it
Speaker 1: when you're analyzing players, right like, I'm old enough to
Speaker 1: remember as you are, when Jimmy Johnson had like the
Speaker 1: first three hundred pounders in NFL history on his offensive line,
Speaker 1: and I remember think, oh my god, there's three guys
Speaker 1: on Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys offensive line. They're over three hundred pounds.
Speaker 1: How how are you ever going to get to the quarterback?
Speaker 1: And now we see the evolution of the athleticism to
Speaker 1: go along with a size. So now when you're looking
Speaker 1: at offensive lineman right like you, and we're gonna get
Speaker 1: into the offensive lineman as we get deeper and deeper
Speaker 1: into future editions of this podcast as well, where you
Speaker 1: better combine size and athleticism and you know, and and
Speaker 1: foot agility with that position as well, because look who
Speaker 1: they have to block. You have to now block a
Speaker 1: guy that's three forty pounds and ran the forty time
Speaker 1: of a good tight end or like a lower level
Speaker 1: wide receiver, and that is the evolution of this game
Speaker 1: where they are just bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic. Combining
Speaker 1: that with size, it must change the whole prism with
Speaker 1: which you look at, especially guys along the line of scrimmage,
Speaker 1: like the athleticism that they have to combine with that
Speaker 1: size in order to move them up your draft board. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think that's one reason why I think a
Speaker 1: lot of coaches would say that the biggest mismatch in
Speaker 1: the NFL is probably an offensive lineman. And they're getting
Speaker 1: more athletic too at offensive line versus defensive lineman and
Speaker 1: defensive schemes because now, as you know, Bob, when you blitz,
Speaker 1: when you blitz, let's say you're playing your dying personnel
Speaker 1: six defensive backs, you're bringing in an extra safety, an
Speaker 1: extra corner, maybe, you know whatever, you're and you're bringing
Speaker 1: in a specific linebacker who's more athletic. And now these
Speaker 1: offensive linemen have to deal with that kind of speed
Speaker 1: coming from distance, and that is a really tough deal. So, no,
Speaker 1: the game is cyclical, the game changes. You know, it's hard,
Speaker 1: it's hard to pass protect in this league, and it's
Speaker 1: really hard to pass protect with five offensive linemen. So
Speaker 1: the game. Will see where the game goes, but it's
Speaker 1: there's so much speed on defense now. Well, hopefully we
Speaker 1: were able to at least this week put a little
Speaker 1: bit more in perspective the importance of the combine, the
Speaker 1: importance of the measurables, and how coaches and teams and
Speaker 1: general managers look at those forty times and the measurables.
Speaker 1: At the com Vine, you can hit us up on
Speaker 1: social media, download and subscribe. We will be back next
Speaker 1: week with more evaluations and what the tape says about
Speaker 1: the top players for Greg Cosel, I'm Babwa Schoosi. Thanks
Speaker 1: for being a tape ed