WEBVTT - Andor Season 2 (Episodes 10-12) Roundtable (w/ Escape Hatch pod) 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.920 Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for and Or season two, 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:10.280 the finale, the entire series, plus lots of other Star Wars. 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:12.080 I'm sure we're going to be discussed. 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:13.720 So just be warned. 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.040 Oh my name is Jas Sconcepcio an I'm Mersey and 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:34.919 I and welcome back to Extra Vision of the podcast 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.640 where we do you do your favorite shows, movies, comics 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.320 of pop culture company from iHeart Podcast, where we'll bring 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:44.160 you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:44.680 plus news. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.440 In this episode, oh baby, we've been waiting for it. 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.720 We're calling the Alliance back to Avin to discuss the 0:00:54.720 --> 0:00:57.080 final three episodes. And well, I think at this point 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.320 we can just officially call the greatest Star Wars property 0:00:59.360 --> 0:00:59.920 of old time. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.920 It's and Or and guess we'll sadly a Boo is 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.360 off planet today, so we'll not be joining us, but 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:12.720 we have called in the most important guest that we 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.760 could have to make sure we're talking about and Or 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.320 in a sensible and serious Star Wars forward. Wait, it's 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:19.760 h from Escape Hatch. 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:23.199 Welcome, what's happening And. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:30.160 Of course we will also have Joel Monique, Mommer's daughter's 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:37.520 Weddings after party. Absolutely happy to have you guys here, 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:40.880 very excited to talk about this absolutely astonishing show. 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:42.360 Astonishing, Okay, let's get it. 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:44.960 Yeah, this is an upgrade from coming to talk about 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:53.040 doing prophecy. That's what works. It is perfect. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:54.400 Yeah, it's perfect. 0:01:55.800 --> 0:02:02.000 So h your your overall thoughts on Indoor season too. Yeah, 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.400 and even looking at the entire show, I just want 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:06.160 to say, the thing that struck me when we got 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.120 to the finale and the last shot of this and 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:12.960 we see where Bis has landed up and who she 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:19.000 is holding. I was crying, screaming, laughing, just I was 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:23.680 so the amount of relief and love that I felt 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.840 in that moment. And to me, this is the genius. 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.160 Tony flipped the script on Rogue one. 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:35.120 Everyone always says, man, it's depressing, everyone dies, It's this 0:02:35.240 --> 0:02:39.400 downer of a story, and he turned the entire thing around. 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:43.280 It's about love, it's about life, it's about hope, and 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:44.359 it's about rebirth. 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:45.080 Yeah. 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:50.800 Unbelievable to transform that, and so that was the biggest 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:51.680 takeaway from me. 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:52.720 Yeah. 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.560 So I'm so excited to talk to you guys a 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.600 little bit more about the baby because there's been a 0:02:57.639 --> 0:03:03.440 lot of Baby discourse in the I'm very excited. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.520 Let's talk about who are MVP of this season is 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.079 before we really get into the. 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.000 Meat of the baby. 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:19.320 A lot of great candidates on the on the imperial 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.640 side and on the rebels side, and the kind of 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:26.680 shades in between. Joel your MVP for and or season two? 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.040 And I guess really for. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:36.040 And series in always it's Luthan real. It is nobody 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:42.400 like to come in and die series to be such 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:46.840 a legendary, Like we thought Rogue one was the kickoff, 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:50.000 but Luthen is the kickoff. And that is like a 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:53.040 brain altering way to watch this movie to honor, like 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.440 it's done for everybody, but it's also kind of just 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.880 done for Luthen, like he is stellar and for that 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.840 Episode ten is maybe one of my favorite things ever written. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:07.040 It's up there with like was it episode six of 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.400 Watchmen where they go back into her granites was the top? 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.160 It's up there with that, Like I just think the 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:19.040 devotion what we get with him and Claia, the I mean, 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:22.839 my god, this moment where he's just staying before he 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.360 makes the transition into rebel and he's just make it stop, 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:29.560 make it stop. Like you understand from whence this passion 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:34.040 comes and then the unraveling of him. We talked about 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:37.279 how like coming into season two, there's no part of 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.760 you that would consider like, oh, Luthen's not fully prepared 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:45.480 and aware. He's always aware, but like he faltered at times, 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.560 like it was almost Jesus allegory of like, oh, yeah, 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.440 I'm doubting in the the eleventh hour that we can 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.360 do this. It's so scary. And for him to kill 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.200 someone that we ultimately like who we know sacrifice and 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.360 lived by the same types of rules with Luthen, like 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.479 Iver stepped out of bounds, like held it down in 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.520 very stressful situations, and then our guy just gets murked 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.160 on a bench and I still like after that, yeah, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.320 still respect his choice, Like that's crazy. 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.760 I think that is why Luthin is such a brilliant character, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.240 and what Tony Gilroy does so well is Luthin is 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:23.560 almost he is almost like the character who is the show, 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.080 because the truth is he does terrible things, he does 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.360 complex things, he does the things he has to do. 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.960 But Tony Gilroy is not interested in passing some judgment 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.880 on him. He is just interested in presenting part of 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.200 what the rebellion needs. And I think as well, the 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:44.000 reason that Luthern's fate is like so incredibly moving is 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.360 he knows, you know, his speech that made everyone fall 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:48.920 in love with him for the first time, he says, 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:50.880 I'm never going to get to see what we're doing 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.000 this for, Like he knows he's going to die in 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.160 the darkness, he's never going to get the credit, and 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:57.080 yet we still. 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:57.480 Got to sunrise. 0:05:57.560 --> 0:05:58.599 I'll never see. 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:03.200 Exactly and we still all get these moments, these hopeful moments, 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:08.440 like when he finally hears from Lonnie what the real 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.800 plan has been of the energy and he understands that 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.320 in that moment, Okay, the super weapon, this is why 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:16.359 we've been doing it, Like he has to make that 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.080 decision in that second of like, this is the thing 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:21.440 we're going to risk it all for. I think that's incredible. 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.880 And yeah, Joe, does anyone have anybody else other than I. 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:30.839 Could just all talk about Luther? My name is not Minus, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:33.920 but hey, choose yours. Who's your MVP? 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:39.599 Uh So this is slightly uh a left field of it, 0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:42.640 But for me, I just want to call out Luke Hole, 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:43.920 the production designer. 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:44.680 I love. 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:53.320 The world that he created, whether it's Gorman right, or 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.680 whether it's Ferricks in season one, or all the the 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:01.200 stuff on Chorus on it, but particularly Gorman for me, unbelievable. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.160 Episode eight I think is the most transcendent of the 0:07:05.200 --> 0:07:08.560 season for me. If for me it's eight and season 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.720 one episode ten one way out right with a sunless 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:15.239 space at the end, that notion of how they created 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.200 something so practically beautiful and connected that the artists could 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:23.040 move through and do their performances that had such a 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:28.680 strong base in the canon, and as well as continuing 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:30.760 to grow from that and not be constrained by that. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.360 It's just an amazing achievement of what he did, and 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.840 that idea of having one person's vision carried through the 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.400 entire show amazing. 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.920 Yeah, agreed, Mike. Going back to character wise, my would 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:48.920 mine would be Claia. I think Claire is the underdog 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.760 for me. I think she's always been an interesting character, 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:55.280 but I loved getting to see the way that she 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.360 moved through this season. I think that in the final 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:03.440 moments of this season also, she is like the only 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.840 person who could do what needed to be done, which 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.000 was kill Lutheran and make sure that his sacrifice wasn't 0:08:10.000 --> 0:08:14.160 in Vain. I think that episode is unbelievable, and I 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:19.360 think that we get to see someone who is as 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.440 dedicated as Luthen but is also more emotionally connected to 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.360 the person that she has to take out of this 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:32.240 world because he raised her. And I personally am a 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.640 big fan of the Clayer is and Or sister theories. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.599 I think that's really great and I kind of love that, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.600 as Tony has said in interviews, like she doesn't get 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:43.680 any closure, We're not going to get to find out 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.560 what else is going on with her. But I kind 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.040 of like how loose it is because the reality is, 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.960 you know, even in something like Star Wars, but with 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:54.520 and Or, we are talking about a version of reality. 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.000 You wouldn't just randomly find out that that was your 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:01.200 long lost sister. You know, there would be ye, there's 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.680 no more in space exactly. 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:08.960 I'm anti that theory though, like I, it's the same 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:10.720 as Ray, like, she doesn't have to be you know, 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:14.199 she doesn't have to be Claya and Or or whatever 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.760 their name was before that became. And the idea that 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:20.400 Cassia never knows what happened to his sister and he 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.640 is always trying to fill that gap with other people 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.480 and rescuing people and building his family at all times. 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:28.640 And so I love the fact that Tony's like, we 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:30.200 are not going to make that that. 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:33.040 I can say that a lot of people. 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.000 I say I respect that a lot because I feel 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:37.840 the same way about Rayla, Like I think it really 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.520 destroys her to bring her into the fold. I was like, Oh, 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:41.520 it's really cool that she's. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.320 Just Yeah, nobody needed race Skywalker. 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.680 Like why the andor and clear are like brother and 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.200 sister works for me for a couple of reasons. One, 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.040 there's the holes they leave us for this are really beautiful. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.480 You do not know the little girl's name when she 0:09:55.600 --> 0:10:00.560 meets Luthen, but you do get her name. Actor is 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.040 Clia and her sister's name is Carrie. Lufing goes from 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:13.600 uh well captain. It starts with an L like reality 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.360 is is a like a small adjustment to his actual name. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.800 So we see in this like name changing situation, that 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.920 they're the same. On top of that, I really think 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.559 like there's something to be said about the way they 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.800 handle things. One of the main things we get from Cassians. 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.520 He's a guy who hides things a lot, like he 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.000 from the shower, he pulls down the gun and stuff. 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:38.760 The very first thing we see Claiya do when she 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:40.760 gets back to the safe house and start pulling things 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.680 out of the wall, the like connections. 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:46.360 Country for all Men call back with. 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.600 And I think like these What really works for me 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:55.520 is like Star Wars starts with two siblings who don't 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:59.160 know who they are, fighting the rebellion in their own 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:02.280 ways and coming together save the galaxy. This just feels 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:06.640 like such a great mirror to that without destroying the 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:11.120 authenticity and impact of They'll never know it, they don't 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.240 need to know it at all. I think that their 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.960 story holds up and it's great. But us getting to 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.959 know and see, like my heart like and the fact 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:23.439 that Luvin sort of at different ages but like raised them, 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:29.680 brought them into this foldings. 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.240 Oh, I love that. I love that take look at 0:11:32.320 --> 0:11:36.520 us also as well. I would say, like I like, 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.199 I like Tony Gilroy is never not going to be 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:41.640 Tony Gilroy. He's out here and he's going to be 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.000 making his broad statements about history and about the wildness 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:46.760 of the galaxy. He was never going to come in 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.080 and be like, yeah, their siblings. But I kind of 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.559 love that. Just like any other Star Wars project or 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:55.520 Dune project or any sci fi project, people are going 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:57.520 to have their theories, They're going to have their kind 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.640 of conversations. And that was one that I thought was 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:04.240 really interesting because I had not conceived it, but I 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.960 love hearing other people kind of talking about why it worked. 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.280 And when Joel broke it down like that, I was like, well, 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.520 I just think that's a lovely echo, even if it's 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.360 not about yeah exactly. 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.959 They're from the same community. 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:16.959 M M. 0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:19.320 There is a family nature that and they were both 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.720 raised by radicals in their own way as well. With 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:23.320 my Okay, Jason, who's your MVP. 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:27.360 My MVP is I'll do a haircut on some of 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:32.720 what we've heard, and myv is the relationship between Claya 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:38.680 and Ah. I think that Claia gave him something to 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:46.000 live for and m a reason to fight, and kind 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:51.280 of the first was, in a real way, the first 0:12:51.679 --> 0:12:54.760 member of his army that he had assembled, the first 0:12:55.320 --> 0:13:01.960 member of the of the rebellion, and he gave her 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.079 the way to do it like she was as you 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.720 would expect and as we saw in these episodes, like 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.719 full of rage, full of anger, wanting to lash out 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:16.079 at the Empire in an almost suicidal way, and he 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:20.040 says to her that thing that really that line that 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:23.400 really sticks with me, which is she asked, like, when 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.360 do we start fighting back? And he says, we fight 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.440 to win. That means we lose, and we lose, and 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.679 we lose and we lose until already and that patience 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.360 is how the rebellion was built. She's the only one 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:41.800 I think who would have been one hundred percent guaranteed 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.840 to follow through and what needed to be done, which 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.920 is Peter Luthen dies fall into the Empire's hands. I 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.760 think everybody else, even Cassie, and for as ruthless as 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:56.080 he is, would have launched some sort of crazy rescue rescue. 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.400 He can't help it. He's it's got a little bit 0:13:58.559 --> 0:13:59.240 too much hot. 0:13:59.360 --> 0:13:59.920 That's why I was. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:02.960 It was only Claya, I think, who could see it through, 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:08.959 and the two of them together alone, either one of them. 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:11.319 Would not have been as effective. 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:13.960 The idea that they needed to stay for as long 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.480 as they did paid off obviously in the in the 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.880 Intel that led to the destruction of the Death Star, 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.080 but without each other it would have all fallen apart. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.480 We saw as as Joel pointed out Luthen cracking already 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.520 like under the pressure, and Claya literally. 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.760 You know, getting a hands bloody pulling out the the bug. 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.040 You know, there's no way Lutheran could have done that, 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.840 like they were what a scene. That was such an 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:46.000 unbelievable scene. Also like the literal kind of representation of 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:51.080 like Mon doesn't know the way that Hans have to 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.520 get due and in that room it is like the 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.840 literal like kind of representation of that. 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:57.160 Yeah. 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:00.240 I also just think as well, like about Claya, is 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:04.360 I that episode where she has to kill Luthen and 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.880 make sure it's done, we also see that she is 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:11.720 she has been hidden in this business, hidden in plain sight. 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.920 She's always stressed at people, she's always pissed off. But 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.760 we also see that, Yeah, part of the reason for 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.800 that is she can fucking handle herself, Like she takes 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.160 out all of those stormtroopers. She is ready to fight, 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:25.840 but she has had to be playing this part and 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.520 I think that is also such an interesting part of 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.360 her character. And yeah, I love Claya And those were 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:32.840 all great, and we also see what. 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.120 Before we move off of those two things, One we 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.240 get to see how Clea teaches Luthan, and I found 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.640 that so that the bartering scene was tied your shout 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:42.840 out to the little girl. She's such a great actress. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:46.320 She really killed that role. And I think like understanding 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:49.000 that Luvin's first disguise is actually taught to him by 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.880 Claia and not the other way around. Like what he 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.960 is good at is the span as the patient seeing 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.600 the big picture, which she is great at is those 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:00.920 interpersonal reactions, and he learns that from her because he 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.040 from what we see of him with his troops like 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:11.360 not great checking in personality. It doesn't seem like things 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.840 are going well socially, and so I really feel like 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:16.840 we get to that side of Claya as well. And 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.240 and the fact that so much of Luthan is her, 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.520 I was like, that's amazing. I also just really want 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.520 to call out I think Luthen his song makes him 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.520 ess here at BB Luthan of Coraissant is one of 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.240 the most beautiful haunting songs, and we get the starts 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:36.080 of it when Claya is in the apartment by herself, 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:40.160 just staring out the window. It is gorgeous and dark 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:45.640 and like lovely and inspiring and really encapsulates this character 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.520 that we've gotten to know, and I think the best 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.920 Star Wars characters get amazing songs. This is an amazing song. 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:55.080 M Can we just shout in terms of per Can 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.160 we just say Lonnie like Lottie? 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:02.440 I want to say that. 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:09.400 I love Huan and he is obviously the top three 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:15.320 most important figures in the Rebellion ever historical and I 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:20.240 am not one to argue with his decisions being surrounded 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:20.960 by danger. 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.240 And you're not like saying you would have done it differently. 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.040 You don't know, did deserve better? 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:28.840 He did? 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.359 Oh my god, he absolutely deserved better. 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.920 And I'm not sure what decisions could have been made 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:41.840 previous to his ignominious gut shot on a park bench, 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:47.080 anonymous death on a park bench, but it feels like 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.320 there must have been something that either party, Luthen or 0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.640 Lonnie could have done just make the outcome a little better, 0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:59.359 because that guy literally gave his life to get the 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:04.560 death start Intels and to go out like that, and 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.840 you know, I'm sure his family is in a prison 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.320 like three floors up from Dedra. 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:14.560 It's I feel bad for that. 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.200 I think it's the Luthan I got just part of 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.960 the the kind of unraveling of Lutheran is in that moment, 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:23.600 he's so scared and he's like, I don't have time 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.960 to deal with this, like we know what the issue is. 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:28.920 But no, I mean, they absolutely could have just sent 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.159 him to a like beach planet with his family like 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.720 there was. I definitely believe there's a version where Lonnie 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:40.480 could have existed, but I think that the set up 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:42.040 very clearly. 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.840 You can tell from that exchange that at some point 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.280 in the past Luthen had said, we'll get you off planet, 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:52.520 write you and your family off planet, and it just 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:53.640 became too late. 0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:54.640 They were. 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.040 They were on Lutheran within an hour of that conversation. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:03.120 It was so, yeah, it's too late, But yeah, I'm 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:04.560 glad he got out. 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:06.800 He was also he was isolated though right, like he 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:08.600 didn't have to say, well, I'll take you to Yavin, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.000 like he could have let Lonnie take his chances and 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:12.840 maybe he gets out. But if he doesn't get out, 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:14.520 he could only burn Luthen. 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.439 And Lonnie is not going to stand up if we 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:22.000 don't have a collapse immediately with. 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:24.240 Funny guy. 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.440 I'm glad, yes, with respect because he took on immense stager. 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.640 Let me ask you this the decision to not tell 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:35.960 Luthen right away that I'm across I'm across Dedra's computer 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:37.000 like for a year. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.040 This argument is the reason he dies because. 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.600 His argument is, well, Luthen, you would have pushed me 0:19:44.720 --> 0:19:47.680 to like scrape all this intel, and then that would 0:19:47.680 --> 0:19:50.720 have been blown up way earlier. Doing it my way, 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.520 I was able to get this like last little drip 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:56.359 of intel that tells us there. Maybe he's right about that, 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:59.240 But what is your your thoughts on that? Should he 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.840 have told lu Because I agree with you, Rosie, this 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:03.160 is kind of why he's dead. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.000 I think if he'd have told Luthen, you know, two 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.679 weeks prior. I think that there's some other version of 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.560 this where Lonnie decides it's worth it to tell Lutheran. 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.920 But I also think that with the things that going 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.960 the way they are on Gorman and our understanding of 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.040 how the empire is working at this point, and the 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.480 push to finish the Death Star, I also do think 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.560 there is a reading of this where this is the 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.000 moment he tells Luthen, because this is the moment he 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:32.919 finally puts everything together and understands what's going on. So 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.520 I don't know if there is an earlier time that 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.600 he can present this information without Luthen just saying, oh yeah, 0:20:38.640 --> 0:20:40.199 show me how to do it and then shooting him 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.679 in the head. You know, that's kind of the danger 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:43.199 with Luthen. 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:46.200 To me, the big thing here is one of the 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.160 massive questions of this show the entire time for two years, 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.840 who is going to get the information about the Death Star? 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.560 And for me, I was always wondering, was Carn going 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.760 to flip on Dedra and he was going to provide it? 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.439 I also that feeling, was Dedra going to flip on 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.719 the Empire after Karn was killed and was she going 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.840 to provide it? No, in the end, it's Lonnie who 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.760 was the reliable source who Luthan was willing to kill 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.760 thirty people, let thirty people die on a mission in 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:18.160 order to protect Lonnie and keep in placed and always 0:21:18.240 --> 0:21:20.800 in position. And Lonnie came through, and that is the 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:26.240 ultimately the justification for Luthan's entire mindset and method. This 0:21:26.359 --> 0:21:27.920 is how I liked it was all the plan. 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.000 Yeah, yeah, Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:46.840 be right back, and we're back. 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:47.280 Okay. 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:52.639 We talked about our MVP, who are our you know, 0:21:52.720 --> 0:21:55.000 either group or singular LVP. 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:59.359 Who's the least valuable player in all of that is 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:01.679 the leaders of the rebel Alliance. 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:06.880 And the way. 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:12.800 I was so mad. 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.040 I was so mad at that guy, Like, what the. 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:19.159 Fuck dude, who is it? 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:21.919 Wait, it's it's not the Donna, right, we need to 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:24.640 get the actual, the actual Let's let's. 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:26.239 Another Saturday. 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:28.440 And shame him. 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.640 But I completely agree. We've been talking about this in chat. 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:35.600