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Speaker 1: Warning, Today's episode contains spoilers for and Or season two,

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Speaker 1: the finale, the entire series, plus lots of other Star Wars.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we're going to be discussed.

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Speaker 2: So just be warned.

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Speaker 3: Oh my name is Jas Sconcepcio an I'm Mersey and

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Speaker 3: I and welcome back to Extra Vision of the podcast

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Speaker 3: where we do you do your favorite shows, movies, comics

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Speaker 3: of pop culture company from iHeart Podcast, where we'll bring

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Speaker 3: you three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday,

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Speaker 3: plus news.

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Speaker 4: In this episode, oh baby, we've been waiting for it.

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Speaker 4: We're calling the Alliance back to Avin to discuss the

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Speaker 4: final three episodes. And well, I think at this point

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Speaker 4: we can just officially call the greatest Star Wars property

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Speaker 4: of old time.

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Speaker 5: It's and Or and guess we'll sadly a Boo is

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Speaker 5: off planet today, so we'll not be joining us, but

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Speaker 5: we have called in the most important guest that we

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Speaker 5: could have to make sure we're talking about and Or

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Speaker 5: in a sensible and serious Star Wars forward. Wait, it's

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Speaker 5: h from Escape Hatch.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, what's happening And.

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Speaker 5: Of course we will also have Joel Monique, Mommer's daughter's

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Speaker 5: Weddings after party. Absolutely happy to have you guys here,

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Speaker 5: very excited to talk about this absolutely astonishing show.

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Speaker 2: Astonishing, Okay, let's get it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, this is an upgrade from coming to talk about

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Speaker 6: doing prophecy. That's what works. It is perfect.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it's perfect.

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Speaker 1: So h your your overall thoughts on Indoor season too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and even looking at the entire show, I just want

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Speaker 1: to say, the thing that struck me when we got

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Speaker 1: to the finale and the last shot of this and

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Speaker 1: we see where Bis has landed up and who she

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Speaker 1: is holding. I was crying, screaming, laughing, just I was

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Speaker 1: so the amount of relief and love that I felt

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Speaker 1: in that moment. And to me, this is the genius.

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Speaker 1: Tony flipped the script on Rogue one.

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Speaker 6: Everyone always says, man, it's depressing, everyone dies, It's this

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Speaker 6: downer of a story, and he turned the entire thing around.

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Speaker 6: It's about love, it's about life, it's about hope, and

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Speaker 6: it's about rebirth.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Unbelievable to transform that, and so that was the biggest

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Speaker 6: takeaway from me.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So I'm so excited to talk to you guys a

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Speaker 5: little bit more about the baby because there's been a

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Speaker 5: lot of Baby discourse in the I'm very excited.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about who are MVP of this season is

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Speaker 1: before we really get into the.

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Speaker 7: Meat of the baby.

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Speaker 1: A lot of great candidates on the on the imperial

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Speaker 1: side and on the rebels side, and the kind of

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Speaker 1: shades in between. Joel your MVP for and or season two?

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Speaker 1: And I guess really for.

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Speaker 7: And series in always it's Luthan real. It is nobody

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Speaker 7: like to come in and die series to be such

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Speaker 7: a legendary, Like we thought Rogue one was the kickoff,

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Speaker 7: but Luthen is the kickoff. And that is like a

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Speaker 7: brain altering way to watch this movie to honor, like

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Speaker 7: it's done for everybody, but it's also kind of just

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Speaker 7: done for Luthen, like he is stellar and for that

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Speaker 7: Episode ten is maybe one of my favorite things ever written.

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Speaker 7: It's up there with like was it episode six of

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Speaker 7: Watchmen where they go back into her granites was the top?

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Speaker 7: It's up there with that, Like I just think the

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Speaker 7: devotion what we get with him and Claia, the I mean,

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Speaker 7: my god, this moment where he's just staying before he

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Speaker 7: makes the transition into rebel and he's just make it stop,

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Speaker 7: make it stop. Like you understand from whence this passion

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Speaker 7: comes and then the unraveling of him. We talked about

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Speaker 7: how like coming into season two, there's no part of

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Speaker 7: you that would consider like, oh, Luthen's not fully prepared

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Speaker 7: and aware. He's always aware, but like he faltered at times,

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Speaker 7: like it was almost Jesus allegory of like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 7: I'm doubting in the the eleventh hour that we can

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Speaker 7: do this. It's so scary. And for him to kill

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Speaker 7: someone that we ultimately like who we know sacrifice and

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Speaker 7: lived by the same types of rules with Luthen, like

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Speaker 7: Iver stepped out of bounds, like held it down in

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Speaker 7: very stressful situations, and then our guy just gets murked

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Speaker 7: on a bench and I still like after that, yeah,

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Speaker 7: still respect his choice, Like that's crazy.

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Speaker 5: I think that is why Luthin is such a brilliant character,

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Speaker 5: and what Tony Gilroy does so well is Luthin is

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Speaker 5: almost he is almost like the character who is the show,

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Speaker 5: because the truth is he does terrible things, he does

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Speaker 5: complex things, he does the things he has to do.

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Speaker 5: But Tony Gilroy is not interested in passing some judgment

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Speaker 5: on him. He is just interested in presenting part of

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Speaker 5: what the rebellion needs. And I think as well, the

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Speaker 5: reason that Luthern's fate is like so incredibly moving is

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Speaker 5: he knows, you know, his speech that made everyone fall

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Speaker 5: in love with him for the first time, he says,

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Speaker 5: I'm never going to get to see what we're doing

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Speaker 5: this for, Like he knows he's going to die in

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Speaker 5: the darkness, he's never going to get the credit, and

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Speaker 5: yet we still.

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Speaker 2: Got to sunrise.

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Speaker 6: I'll never see.

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Speaker 5: Exactly and we still all get these moments, these hopeful moments,

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Speaker 5: like when he finally hears from Lonnie what the real

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Speaker 5: plan has been of the energy and he understands that

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Speaker 5: in that moment, Okay, the super weapon, this is why

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Speaker 5: we've been doing it, Like he has to make that

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Speaker 5: decision in that second of like, this is the thing

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Speaker 5: we're going to risk it all for. I think that's incredible.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, Joe, does anyone have anybody else other than I.

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Speaker 5: Could just all talk about Luther? My name is not Minus,

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Speaker 5: but hey, choose yours. Who's your MVP?

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Speaker 6: Uh So this is slightly uh a left field of it,

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Speaker 6: But for me, I just want to call out Luke Hole,

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Speaker 6: the production designer.

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Speaker 5: I love.

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Speaker 6: The world that he created, whether it's Gorman right, or

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Speaker 6: whether it's Ferricks in season one, or all the the

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Speaker 6: stuff on Chorus on it, but particularly Gorman for me, unbelievable.

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Speaker 6: Episode eight I think is the most transcendent of the

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Speaker 6: season for me. If for me it's eight and season

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Speaker 6: one episode ten one way out right with a sunless

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Speaker 6: space at the end, that notion of how they created

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Speaker 6: something so practically beautiful and connected that the artists could

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Speaker 6: move through and do their performances that had such a

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Speaker 6: strong base in the canon, and as well as continuing

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Speaker 6: to grow from that and not be constrained by that.

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Speaker 6: It's just an amazing achievement of what he did, and

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Speaker 6: that idea of having one person's vision carried through the

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Speaker 6: entire show amazing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, agreed, Mike. Going back to character wise, my would

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Speaker 5: mine would be Claia. I think Claire is the underdog

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Speaker 5: for me. I think she's always been an interesting character,

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Speaker 5: but I loved getting to see the way that she

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Speaker 5: moved through this season. I think that in the final

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Speaker 5: moments of this season also, she is like the only

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Speaker 5: person who could do what needed to be done, which

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Speaker 5: was kill Lutheran and make sure that his sacrifice wasn't

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Speaker 5: in Vain. I think that episode is unbelievable, and I

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Speaker 5: think that we get to see someone who is as

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Speaker 5: dedicated as Luthen but is also more emotionally connected to

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Speaker 5: the person that she has to take out of this

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Speaker 5: world because he raised her. And I personally am a

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Speaker 5: big fan of the Clayer is and Or sister theories.

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Speaker 5: I think that's really great and I kind of love that,

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Speaker 5: as Tony has said in interviews, like she doesn't get

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Speaker 5: any closure, We're not going to get to find out

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Speaker 5: what else is going on with her. But I kind

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Speaker 5: of like how loose it is because the reality is,

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Speaker 5: you know, even in something like Star Wars, but with

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Speaker 5: and Or, we are talking about a version of reality.

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Speaker 5: You wouldn't just randomly find out that that was your

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Speaker 5: long lost sister. You know, there would be ye, there's

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Speaker 5: no more in space exactly.

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Speaker 6: I'm anti that theory though, like I, it's the same

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Speaker 6: as Ray, like, she doesn't have to be you know,

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Speaker 6: she doesn't have to be Claya and Or or whatever

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Speaker 6: their name was before that became. And the idea that

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Speaker 6: Cassia never knows what happened to his sister and he

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Speaker 6: is always trying to fill that gap with other people

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Speaker 6: and rescuing people and building his family at all times.

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Speaker 6: And so I love the fact that Tony's like, we

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Speaker 6: are not going to make that that.

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Speaker 5: I can say that a lot of people.

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Speaker 7: I say I respect that a lot because I feel

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Speaker 7: the same way about Rayla, Like I think it really

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Speaker 7: destroys her to bring her into the fold. I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 7: it's really cool that she's.

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Speaker 5: Just Yeah, nobody needed race Skywalker.

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Speaker 7: Like why the andor and clear are like brother and

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Speaker 7: sister works for me for a couple of reasons. One,

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Speaker 7: there's the holes they leave us for this are really beautiful.

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Speaker 7: You do not know the little girl's name when she

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Speaker 7: meets Luthen, but you do get her name. Actor is

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Speaker 7: Clia and her sister's name is Carrie. Lufing goes from

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Speaker 7: uh well captain. It starts with an L like reality

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Speaker 7: is is a like a small adjustment to his actual name.

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Speaker 7: So we see in this like name changing situation, that

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Speaker 7: they're the same. On top of that, I really think

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Speaker 7: like there's something to be said about the way they

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Speaker 7: handle things. One of the main things we get from Cassians.

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Speaker 7: He's a guy who hides things a lot, like he

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Speaker 7: from the shower, he pulls down the gun and stuff.

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Speaker 7: The very first thing we see Claiya do when she

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Speaker 7: gets back to the safe house and start pulling things

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Speaker 7: out of the wall, the like connections.

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Speaker 2: Country for all Men call back with.

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Speaker 7: And I think like these What really works for me

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Speaker 7: is like Star Wars starts with two siblings who don't

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Speaker 7: know who they are, fighting the rebellion in their own

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Speaker 7: ways and coming together save the galaxy. This just feels

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Speaker 7: like such a great mirror to that without destroying the

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Speaker 7: authenticity and impact of They'll never know it, they don't

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Speaker 7: need to know it at all. I think that their

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Speaker 7: story holds up and it's great. But us getting to

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Speaker 7: know and see, like my heart like and the fact

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Speaker 7: that Luvin sort of at different ages but like raised them,

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Speaker 7: brought them into this foldings.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I love that. I love that take look at

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Speaker 5: us also as well. I would say, like I like,

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Speaker 5: I like Tony Gilroy is never not going to be

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Speaker 5: Tony Gilroy. He's out here and he's going to be

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Speaker 5: making his broad statements about history and about the wildness

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Speaker 5: of the galaxy. He was never going to come in

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Speaker 5: and be like, yeah, their siblings. But I kind of

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Speaker 5: love that. Just like any other Star Wars project or

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Speaker 5: Dune project or any sci fi project, people are going

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Speaker 5: to have their theories, They're going to have their kind

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Speaker 5: of conversations. And that was one that I thought was

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Speaker 5: really interesting because I had not conceived it, but I

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Speaker 5: love hearing other people kind of talking about why it worked.

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Speaker 5: And when Joel broke it down like that, I was like, well,

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Speaker 5: I just think that's a lovely echo, even if it's

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Speaker 5: not about yeah exactly.

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Speaker 2: They're from the same community.

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Speaker 7: M M.

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Speaker 5: There is a family nature that and they were both

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Speaker 5: raised by radicals in their own way as well. With

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Speaker 5: my Okay, Jason, who's your MVP.

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Speaker 1: My MVP is I'll do a haircut on some of

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Speaker 1: what we've heard, and myv is the relationship between Claya

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Speaker 1: and Ah. I think that Claia gave him something to

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Speaker 1: live for and m a reason to fight, and kind

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Speaker 1: of the first was, in a real way, the first

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Speaker 1: member of his army that he had assembled, the first

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Speaker 1: member of the of the rebellion, and he gave her

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Speaker 1: the way to do it like she was as you

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Speaker 1: would expect and as we saw in these episodes, like

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Speaker 1: full of rage, full of anger, wanting to lash out

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Speaker 1: at the Empire in an almost suicidal way, and he

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Speaker 1: says to her that thing that really that line that

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Speaker 1: really sticks with me, which is she asked, like, when

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Speaker 1: do we start fighting back? And he says, we fight

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Speaker 1: to win. That means we lose, and we lose, and

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Speaker 1: we lose and we lose until already and that patience

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Speaker 1: is how the rebellion was built. She's the only one

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Speaker 1: I think who would have been one hundred percent guaranteed

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Speaker 1: to follow through and what needed to be done, which

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Speaker 1: is Peter Luthen dies fall into the Empire's hands. I

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Speaker 1: think everybody else, even Cassie, and for as ruthless as

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Speaker 1: he is, would have launched some sort of crazy rescue rescue.

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Speaker 5: He can't help it. He's it's got a little bit

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Speaker 5: too much hot.

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Speaker 2: That's why I was.

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Speaker 1: It was only Claya, I think, who could see it through,

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Speaker 1: and the two of them together alone, either one of them.

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Speaker 2: Would not have been as effective.

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Speaker 1: The idea that they needed to stay for as long

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Speaker 1: as they did paid off obviously in the in the

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Speaker 1: Intel that led to the destruction of the Death Star,

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Speaker 1: but without each other it would have all fallen apart.

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Speaker 1: We saw as as Joel pointed out Luthen cracking already

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Speaker 1: like under the pressure, and Claya literally.

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Speaker 5: You know, getting a hands bloody pulling out the the bug.

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Speaker 5: You know, there's no way Lutheran could have done that,

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Speaker 5: like they were what a scene. That was such an

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Speaker 5: unbelievable scene. Also like the literal kind of representation of

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Speaker 5: like Mon doesn't know the way that Hans have to

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Speaker 5: get due and in that room it is like the

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Speaker 5: literal like kind of representation of that.

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Speaker 8: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I also just think as well, like about Claya, is

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Speaker 5: I that episode where she has to kill Luthen and

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Speaker 5: make sure it's done, we also see that she is

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Speaker 5: she has been hidden in this business, hidden in plain sight.

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Speaker 5: She's always stressed at people, she's always pissed off. But

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Speaker 5: we also see that, Yeah, part of the reason for

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Speaker 5: that is she can fucking handle herself, Like she takes

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Speaker 5: out all of those stormtroopers. She is ready to fight,

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Speaker 5: but she has had to be playing this part and

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Speaker 5: I think that is also such an interesting part of

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Speaker 5: her character. And yeah, I love Claya And those were

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Speaker 5: all great, and we also see what.

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Speaker 7: Before we move off of those two things, One we

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Speaker 7: get to see how Clea teaches Luthan, and I found

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Speaker 7: that so that the bartering scene was tied your shout

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Speaker 7: out to the little girl. She's such a great actress.

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Speaker 7: She really killed that role. And I think like understanding

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Speaker 7: that Luvin's first disguise is actually taught to him by

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Speaker 7: Claia and not the other way around. Like what he

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Speaker 7: is good at is the span as the patient seeing

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Speaker 7: the big picture, which she is great at is those

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Speaker 7: interpersonal reactions, and he learns that from her because he

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Speaker 7: from what we see of him with his troops like

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Speaker 7: not great checking in personality. It doesn't seem like things

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Speaker 7: are going well socially, and so I really feel like

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Speaker 7: we get to that side of Claya as well. And

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Speaker 7: and the fact that so much of Luthan is her,

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Speaker 7: I was like, that's amazing. I also just really want

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Speaker 7: to call out I think Luthen his song makes him

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Speaker 7: ess here at BB Luthan of Coraissant is one of

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Speaker 7: the most beautiful haunting songs, and we get the starts

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Speaker 7: of it when Claya is in the apartment by herself,

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Speaker 7: just staring out the window. It is gorgeous and dark

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Speaker 7: and like lovely and inspiring and really encapsulates this character

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Speaker 7: that we've gotten to know, and I think the best

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Speaker 7: Star Wars characters get amazing songs. This is an amazing song.

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Speaker 6: M Can we just shout in terms of per Can

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Speaker 6: we just say Lonnie like Lottie?

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Speaker 2: I want to say that.

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Speaker 1: I love Huan and he is obviously the top three

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Speaker 1: most important figures in the Rebellion ever historical and I

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Speaker 1: am not one to argue with his decisions being surrounded

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Speaker 1: by danger.

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Speaker 5: And you're not like saying you would have done it differently.

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Speaker 2: You don't know, did deserve better?

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Speaker 8: He did?

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, he absolutely deserved better.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not sure what decisions could have been made

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Speaker 1: previous to his ignominious gut shot on a park bench,

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Speaker 1: anonymous death on a park bench, but it feels like

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Speaker 1: there must have been something that either party, Luthen or

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Speaker 1: Lonnie could have done just make the outcome a little better,

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Speaker 1: because that guy literally gave his life to get the

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Speaker 1: death start Intels and to go out like that, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure his family is in a prison

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Speaker 1: like three floors up from Dedra.

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Speaker 2: It's I feel bad for that.

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Speaker 5: I think it's the Luthan I got just part of

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Speaker 5: the the kind of unraveling of Lutheran is in that moment,

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Speaker 5: he's so scared and he's like, I don't have time

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Speaker 5: to deal with this, like we know what the issue is.

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Speaker 5: But no, I mean, they absolutely could have just sent

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Speaker 5: him to a like beach planet with his family like

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Speaker 5: there was. I definitely believe there's a version where Lonnie

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Speaker 5: could have existed, but I think that the set up

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Speaker 5: very clearly.

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Speaker 1: You can tell from that exchange that at some point

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Speaker 1: in the past Luthen had said, we'll get you off planet,

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Speaker 1: write you and your family off planet, and it just

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Speaker 1: became too late.

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Speaker 5: They were.

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Speaker 6: They were on Lutheran within an hour of that conversation.

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Speaker 5: It was so, yeah, it's too late, But yeah, I'm

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Speaker 5: glad he got out.

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Speaker 6: He was also he was isolated though right, like he

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Speaker 6: didn't have to say, well, I'll take you to Yavin,

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Speaker 6: like he could have let Lonnie take his chances and

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Speaker 6: maybe he gets out. But if he doesn't get out,

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Speaker 6: he could only burn Luthen.

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Speaker 7: And Lonnie is not going to stand up if we

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Speaker 7: don't have a collapse immediately with.

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Speaker 5: Funny guy.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad, yes, with respect because he took on immense stager.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you this the decision to not tell

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Speaker 1: Luthen right away that I'm across I'm across Dedra's computer

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Speaker 1: like for a year.

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Speaker 5: This argument is the reason he dies because.

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Speaker 1: His argument is, well, Luthen, you would have pushed me

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Speaker 1: to like scrape all this intel, and then that would

350
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Speaker 1: have been blown up way earlier. Doing it my way,

351
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Speaker 1: I was able to get this like last little drip

352
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,359
Speaker 1: of intel that tells us there. Maybe he's right about that,

353
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Speaker 1: But what is your your thoughts on that? Should he

354
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: have told lu Because I agree with you, Rosie, this

355
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,160
Speaker 1: is kind of why he's dead.

356
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Speaker 5: I think if he'd have told Luthen, you know, two

357
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,679
Speaker 5: weeks prior. I think that there's some other version of

358
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Speaker 5: this where Lonnie decides it's worth it to tell Lutheran.

359
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 5: But I also think that with the things that going

360
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Speaker 5: the way they are on Gorman and our understanding of

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Speaker 5: how the empire is working at this point, and the

362
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 5: push to finish the Death Star, I also do think

363
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Speaker 5: there is a reading of this where this is the

364
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 5: moment he tells Luthen, because this is the moment he

365
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,919
Speaker 5: finally puts everything together and understands what's going on. So

366
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Speaker 5: I don't know if there is an earlier time that

367
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,600
Speaker 5: he can present this information without Luthen just saying, oh yeah,

368
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,199
Speaker 5: show me how to do it and then shooting him

369
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Speaker 5: in the head. You know, that's kind of the danger

370
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:43,199
Speaker 5: with Luthen.

371
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Speaker 6: To me, the big thing here is one of the

372
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Speaker 6: massive questions of this show the entire time for two years,

373
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Speaker 6: who is going to get the information about the Death Star?

374
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Speaker 6: And for me, I was always wondering, was Carn going

375
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Speaker 6: to flip on Dedra and he was going to provide it?

376
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Speaker 6: I also that feeling, was Dedra going to flip on

377
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,719
Speaker 6: the Empire after Karn was killed and was she going

378
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 6: to provide it? No, in the end, it's Lonnie who

379
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 6: was the reliable source who Luthan was willing to kill

380
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,760
Speaker 6: thirty people, let thirty people die on a mission in

381
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Speaker 6: order to protect Lonnie and keep in placed and always

382
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Speaker 6: in position. And Lonnie came through, and that is the

383
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Speaker 6: ultimately the justification for Luthan's entire mindset and method. This

384
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 6: is how I liked it was all the plan.

385
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Okay, let's take a quick break and we'll

386
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Speaker 1: be right back, and we're back.

387
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Speaker 2: Okay.

388
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: We talked about our MVP, who are our you know,

389
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: either group or singular LVP.

390
00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,359
Speaker 7: Who's the least valuable player in all of that is

391
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,679
Speaker 7: the leaders of the rebel Alliance.

392
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:06,880
Speaker 5: And the way.

393
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 8: I was so mad.

394
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 5: I was so mad at that guy, Like, what the.

395
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,159
Speaker 7: Fuck dude, who is it?

396
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,919
Speaker 1: Wait, it's it's not the Donna, right, we need to

397
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,640
Speaker 1: get the actual, the actual Let's let's.

398
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,239
Speaker 8: Another Saturday.

399
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 5: And shame him.

400
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,640
Speaker 2: But I completely agree. We've been talking about this in chat.

401
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: Other than mon Mothma, everybody else is like a Johnny

402
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,280
Speaker 1: cup lately who just got here and now is throwing

403
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: their weight around and they don't know the snakes what's

404
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: been happening here?

405
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 7: Not using a code if unless it's the height of necessity.

406
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 7: To and Or's point, even if it is a trap,

407
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 7: we still need to go because.

408
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 2: This is a message that doesn't change anything.

409
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 7: He wouldn't fold otherwise, like something is happening, we need

410
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 7: to go check it out for them to be like,

411
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 7: excuse me, you need a flight plant, move get out.

412
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 8: Who's Claire?

413
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody's like what just the ratus ratus strategic genius

414
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: in a military sense.

415
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, yeah, it's it's very.

416
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,719
Speaker 6: Frustrating, but this is this is this concept that the

417
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 6: central thing that Tony wanted to tell right, the fact

418
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 6: that there are different stages in an insurgency, and we

419
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 6: knew from the beginning that Luthen was not going to

420
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 6: be able to make it all the way through, and

421
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 6: this idea of people they don't even know everything that

422
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 6: he's done, they just have heard enough that they're like, we, wo,

423
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 6: we cannot be associated with those kinds of things. Uh,

424
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 6: now that we've got X wings and people in uniforms

425
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 6: and you know, we're trying to be this this real rebellion.

426
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 6: So I thought that was extremely effective to show that

427
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 6: Tension and even Clay are being so afraid to go

428
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 6: to Yavin and then when they get there and Cassie

429
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 6: is like, yeah, it's gonna be fine when we get there,

430
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 6: and he's like, oh, I'm fucked, I'm rounded.

431
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 7: Sorry.

432
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 8: Yeah.

433
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 5: Also as well, like it's the fear of, like you know,

434
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 5: at some point the empire, the rebels are going to

435
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 5: have to like look like they're like cleaning up the

436
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 5: rebellion and making sure that the people who've been doing

437
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 5: dangerous things and blowing things up, and you've got to

438
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 5: like have that fear of like well, am I going

439
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 5: to be the scapegoat? You know? And I will say

440
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 5: he did not come up in our MVP conversation, but

441
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 5: I do always want to shout out, you know, Sawgerera.

442
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 5: I think obviously Lutheran is a central figure in this,

443
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 5: and we get to see how his version of the

444
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 5: rebellion is. But let's remember that by the time we

445
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 5: get to Rogue One, mon Mathma is already basically writing

446
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 5: Sow out of the rebel story. He is the scapegoat.

447
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 5: She's like, he is the one who's doing too much.

448
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 5: He's the one who's blowing things up. But the reality,

449
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 5: as we learn in and Or, is he is the

450
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 5: one who's doing the missions that allow the rebellion to survive.

451
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 5: He is the one who is getting the fuel that

452
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 5: they need, who is getting the parts that they need,

453
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 5: And he is the one who is puff that rider exactly.

454
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 5: And he's the one who's emboldening people like Will who

455
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 5: at the beginning of this season, you know, we saw

456
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 5: struggle with the balance between both, but Saw radicalized him

457
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 5: in a way that enabled him to stay alive. And

458
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 5: I do think that, you know, as a Sogrera apologist,

459
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 5: he was, He's another person who I think the rebel

460
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 5: leadership like let down and also like made a mistake

461
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 5: pushing away so so variantly because they are a mess,

462
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 5: and as we see as we head into the original trilogy,

463
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 5: they do not get this ship sorted quickly enough and

464
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 5: there is even another death style that gets to be built.

465
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 5: So let's be real about the success over the rebels.

466
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 8: Like they didn't they didn't have Luther's network.

467
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 7: David's Dravin is the guy who lv I will I'll

468
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 7: say the Dravid.

469
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 2: Will, I'll I'll stick up for the.

470
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: Council even the way I agree they are the LVP

471
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 1: like this, but here's how I'm gonna stick up for them.

472
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: And I think, Hit, you're exactly right in that. What

473
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: this show is telling us, what Tony is showing us

474
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 1: is like, hey, guys, democracy means everybody doesn't get what

475
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: they want all the time. And in order to keep legitimacy,

476
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: keep that tent big, bring all the people into the

477
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: fight that wouldn't otherwise have joined. If you know it

478
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: was just Saw and Cassie and you know, Do and

479
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: all this stuff. It is these kind of tensions are

480
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 1: just part of it. It's going to be really frustrating,

481
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: but it's part of it and I respect that that

482
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,479
Speaker 1: they decided to tell that story to add that aspect

483
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: of it. And I think the rebellion is there's a

484
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 1: reason that you don't have like military junta figures, Like

485
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: at the top of the rebellion.

486
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 7: It's not like, you.

487
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: Know, it's mon Mathma, it's it's former senators. And yes,

488
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 1: you have this military aspect, but it's not like you know,

489
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: Grandma f Tarkin.

490
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 5: Like five grands you know what I mean.

491
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 7: And I think that that is.

492
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: I think that's why the republic is something that people

493
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 1: still are trying to rebuild at this point in time

494
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: in galactic history, because it lets everybody have a voice.

495
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: And when you let everybody have a voice, you have

496
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: issues like people who don't know what the fuck is

497
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: going on saying, wait, were you going with that ship?

498
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,719
Speaker 2: How dare you? Who the fuck is Luthen?

499
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: And that is yeah, and that is really frustrating. And

500
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: I found myself being like, what the fuck did John?

501
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 1: You know, Jan shouts to Dodonna who does die and

502
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: gives his life to the cause, but like in retrospect,

503
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 1: what did he really do? Like other there's just scheduling

504
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: coming calib yeah, and it's it is really frustrating, but

505
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: I think it's a necessary aspect to democracy and to

506
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: leveling up this fight so that it's not just you know,

507
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: a bunch of scattered freedom fighters slash terrorists blowing up

508
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: stuff and stealing things.

509
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 2: Like it's a real, right, actual movement.

510
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 9: And I want to say, like, obviously we talked about

511
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 9: him already, but I do just want to say to me,

512
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 9: it is like so, and I know you would hate

513
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 9: to hear somebody just saying this kind of stuff, but like,

514
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 9: it is so astonishing that Tony Gilroy took this tiny

515
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 9: seed of what he was able to put into andor

516
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 9: which was.

517
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 5: The question and the statement of like hey, yeah, look

518
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 5: who's getting the medals and look who did the work

519
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 5: and we'll never get the recognition, which to me is

520
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 5: why rogue one. I saw that in cinemas like three

521
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 5: or four when it came out, because it just blew

522
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 5: me away. And also everyone wanted to see it. I

523
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 5: remember it was a family thing. It's it's Thanksgiving or

524
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 5: whenever it came out, like let's all go together, we

525
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 5: have to watch it. That moment spoke to me. But

526
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 5: that was not what everyone got from that shirt that movie.

527
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 5: It was a brilliant Star Wars action movie with a

528
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 5: bleak ending. It twisted, you know, it shocked people. But

529
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 5: to me, the fact that Tony was able to sow

530
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 5: that seed there and then expand it into a series

531
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 5: that will go down as not only one of the

532
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 5: best entries into Star Wars, but one of the best

533
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 5: entries into TV that then extrapolates that to the point

534
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 5: where we are in a situation where The Atlantic and

535
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 5: The New Yorker are writing about this show and its

536
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 5: political impact as much as people on the Internet are

537
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 5: talking about it. Like, I do think it's an astonishing

538
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,479
Speaker 5: feat and I think that the level of writing and

539
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 5: the kind of understanding of humans and aliens and whoever

540
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 5: else that Tony has is just like just unbelievable, And

541
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 5: I think the show is like a testament to that.

542
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, it's rare that you get a show

543
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 7: that can accurately explore like the truth and underbelly of

544
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 7: like a peaceful movement, you know what I mean, Like

545
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 7: a non violent protest is not for the people, it's

546
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 7: for everyone watching as a way of being like, hey,

547
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 7: even when we're standing here doing absolutely nothing. They're willing

548
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 7: to kill us and show it to you. Please come help.

549
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 7: And I think the if we just look at the

550
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 7: last three sets of episode really the last six, like

551
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 7: that whole middle section is doing such a good job

552
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 7: of exploring like what happens when a small community with

553
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 7: very little resources comes under attack. And I think there's

554
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 7: not many shows and again I keep comparing it to Watchmen,

555
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 7: but I just think it's probably the most apt Peter

556
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 7: this show has. Is it's like the to be able

557
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 7: to explore with such rich contexts, deeply complicated like human

558
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 7: situations when it comes to like both interpersonal politics and

559
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 7: politics on like a grand scale, like that's a deft pen.

560
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 7: And then also to turn around and goes one of

561
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 7: the best spy moments in episode ten. That's a whole

562
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 7: spy movie that of exquisite nature, like we're feasting. I'm

563
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 7: sad it's over, but I'm also glad we get to Eves.

564
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: I want to call that, you know, like recency bias

565
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: has us talking about and Orcy, Yeah, which is the

566
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: reason we're having this round tail. But I just want

567
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: to speaking of death pens and kind of like a

568
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: a philosophical MVP of the of the show Neemic who

569
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: his manifesto? Whose manifesto is so powerful and influential that

570
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: party Gaz is listening to it before he kills himself, and.

571
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 5: He's so stressed the other people can hear it.

572
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: He just knows, I mean it kind of kind of

573
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: is the the encapsulation of the problem the Empire has

574
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: is they can't squeeze hard enough to stop that.

575
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 6: The tighter, the more systems will slip through your fingers.

576
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: Exactly, and the more that manifesto will spread and clearly

577
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: has spread across the galaxy. So shouts Stemic and yeah,

578
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: an incredible piece of writing within Star Wars Unbelieved Manifestos.

579
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 5: And also h like you guys cover You know, obviously

580
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 5: the pocoff began as a joom pod and now it

581
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 5: is this broader sci fi genre movie explosion kind of exploration.

582
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 5: You just hit two hundred and fifty episodes with Jason

583
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 5: and with Jason. Juan joined you here too for Empire.

584
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 5: But you, me and Jason talked quite extensively on the

585
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 5: pot about like political movies and thrillers and like films

586
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 5: like Come and See and Army of shadows, and obviously

587
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 5: Dune is one of the old original kind of allegorical

588
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 5: sci fi stories. So how much of that was what

589
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 5: you loved about Andal because it's a great Star Wars story,

590
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 5: but it's a great human story.

591
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:07,480
Speaker 2: Yeah.

592
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 6: So we had been tracking and talking about and waiting

593
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 6: for and Or for over a year right for season

594
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 6: two to come back, And it was really the events

595
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 6: after January twentieth of this year where we were all

596
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 6: kind of like languishing in the discord, kind of dealing

597
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 6: with day after day like just can't believe the news

598
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 6: we are seeing in our everyday life, and this march

599
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 6: towards a more authoritarian situation, and we were like, we've

600
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 6: got to start watching and Or our season one right

601
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 6: now and talk about it. And it became a lifeline

602
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 6: and a place where we could explore the themes that

603
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 6: we were having such pain in but in an unconnected way,

604
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 6: and then filter it back. So this show showing the

605
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 6: power of resistance exactly to say Joelle, that people showing

606
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 6: up for other people and allowing them to see something

607
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 6: and understand that acts of resistance do have me and

608
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 6: that we're gonna find our way and it's going to

609
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 6: be an unexpected avenues and unexpected actors who step into

610
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 6: the breach. So for me, that that that was the

611
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 6: whole thing of what Tony has done here. It's so powerful.

612
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break in the griff and we're back. Okay,

613
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: let's settle this.

614
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: You know, one of the essential Star Wars questions, I

615
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: think do droids are droids truly alive in that they

616
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: have some sort of soul and spirit or are they

617
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: just merely highly advanced analytical, large language models that tell

618
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 1: you what they expect you want to hear.

619
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,359
Speaker 5: I think that has been enough evidence. Whether it is

620
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 5: R two D two choosing not to tell you know Anakin,

621
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 5: or whether it is the kind of mass murder kind

622
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 5: of passion that Chopper has. I think that there is

623
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 5: enough evidence that droids have personalities in this world. And

624
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 5: I think it is because in Star Wars, every single

625
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 5: character is just made up of the people that they've

626
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 5: met and the people that have changed them. And I

627
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 5: think that the droids are a representation of that because

628
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 5: it is to do with who fixed you and who

629
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 5: spoke to you, and who taught you this and who

630
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 5: gave you that. And I think that for the stories

631
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 5: to have the impact that they have, the droids have

632
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 5: to have some kind of sentience, because like when you

633
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 5: see K two s and he is just absolutely fucking

634
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:03,359
Speaker 5: bodying Nazis, you feel that this is something that has

635
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 5: actually been kind of suppressed in him. And when he

636
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 5: is able to fully just explode and use his full

637
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 5: power and use it for good and kind of create

638
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,720
Speaker 5: a rapport and relationship and play games with these people,

639
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 5: it feels so natural and it feels moving. And I

640
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,799
Speaker 5: think that is because we see them in that way.

641
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 5: And for me, I think they have to. They have

642
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,799
Speaker 5: to have kind of whatever you would say, a soul,

643
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 5: a spirit, some kind of cognizant understanding of themselves. I

644
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 5: think that they have to. And I love droids.

645
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 6: H I don't believe in souls for humans, but I

646
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 6: do believe in consciousness. So, you know, I was just

647
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 6: talking to my son who's seven. You know, he said,

648
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 6: I don't believe in heaven, and I was like, I

649
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 6: don't believe in heaven either. But part of the reason

650
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 6: why our lives have so much meaning is because we

651
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 6: have this opportunity to interact with others and to have

652
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 6: this experience and become a fully shaped person and help people.

653
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 6: So to me, like K two.

654
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 8: Killing it in the game, are two?

655
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 6: They're they're just as they're just as real and valuable

656
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 6: as anyone else with that consciousness.

657
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, K two being like so confused in the card game,

658
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 7: trying to be like, well, statistically, this is not making

659
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 7: any kind of sense. I love sort of the hybrid

660
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 7: space we've ended up in Star Wars, where your programming

661
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 7: is programming, but your interactions with that programming make you

662
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,279
Speaker 7: like or what give these robots personification? And I do

663
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 7: think droids have soul's consciousness, however viewer you choose to

664
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 7: describe it. I think, you know, we get to see

665
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 7: K two make a sacrifice if you roll directly into

666
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 7: Rogue one after this and make a very clear choice

667
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 7: to and his existence. You know, we don't know if

668
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 7: you can revive this version of Okay, we've seen three

669
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 7: pob revived, so there's some hope in my heart that

670
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 7: if the right people, But who's going back to that planet.

671
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 5: Even you know, in the first season of The Man

672
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 5: Glorian you get that huge sacrifice, and I think that

673
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 5: there is something Yeah, and also as well, like just

674
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 5: I think something that Tony did really well here that

675
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 5: maybe if it had been in the movie and there

676
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 5: hadn't been as much exploration of it, people would have

677
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 5: been like, Oh, that's gimmicky, or that's like that's too

678
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 5: kind of corny or cheesy. As I be too. Emo

679
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:36,759
Speaker 5: is always so worried about Cassio. My gosh, Cassian to

680
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,280
Speaker 5: be there, and he wants to know Cassian's gonna be okay.

681
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 5: And I think that is an explicit There's no reason

682
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 5: that you're programming would make you put it across in

683
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 5: that way. You know, I think like the nature of

684
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 5: the worry and the anxiety and the kind of and

685
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 5: we got that in you know, we have much maligned

686
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 5: it on the show. But in Rise of Skywalker there

687
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 5: is a droid with anxiety, which I did think was

688
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 5: an in resting kind of twist. And yeah, I think

689
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 5: I am a I'm a droid, droids have consciousness or else.

690
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 5: Star Wars kind of doesn't mean anything.

691
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 7: Just how relieved I am that Biggs has ended back

692
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 7: with Beat. He's not alone, our little guy is now

693
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 7: that they left him alone. He was incapable hands. But

694
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 7: I'm just glad he's back with family. I was worried

695
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 7: about our guy.

696
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 6: And I knew that was going to happen. If you

697
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 6: feel so clear that that that reunion was going to

698
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 6: be there. It was just adding the third character that

699
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 6: that blew my mind.

700
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 5: Uh, And so okay, I need to ask about it,

701
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 5: seeing as the babies come up again so many many weeks.

702
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 5: So I will say this is I believe it was

703
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 5: alis R in our in our discord pose the idea.

704
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 5: And I'm sorry to be the Dave Filoni of this podcast.

705
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 5: I know this is going to annoy some people, like

706
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 5: somebody posed the idea in our discord and this has

707
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 5: now popped off because somebody did a hilarious meme prediction

708
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 5: that ended up feeling alone bit more true to life

709
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 5: at the end of this that Cassie and and Bis

710
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 5: are Podamren's parents, and at the end she is holding

711
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 5: you know, baby Podamren. Now, I will say in Star

712
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 5: Wars it is there has been a problem where if

713
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 5: people of the same race are in Star Wars, they

714
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 5: are usually related. So I would say, this is a

715
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 5: fair this is a fair bet. We did it. There

716
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 5: was a little bit of contentious conversation in the discord

717
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 5: because uh, pod Ammren does have established parents, but that

718
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 5: doesn't really matter, honestly, and they were established in the comics.

719
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 5: And I will say one thing I do love about

720
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 5: this potential theory is in the comics what we learned

721
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 5: that his mum and is a famous fighter pilot and

722
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 5: she goes on a mission with Luke and she finds

723
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 5: a force tree, and then Poe grows up with this

724
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 5: force tree in the garden. That's just a story I

725
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 5: would love to see Bis embark on, even if it

726
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 5: is not because she is Poe's mother. So yeah, I

727
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 5: just want to put out there, is the baby connected

728
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 5: to Star Wars? Is the baby just a representation of

729
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 5: hope and that life goes on? Like, how do you

730
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 5: guys feel about those kind of theories popping up? H

731
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go to you as as a man who

732
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 5: I believe probably just enjoys the textual nature of what

733
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 5: Tony's putting down.

734
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just for me, it's magic because it doesn't

735
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 6: have a connection. And so I'm very happy for that

736
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 6: baby to be somebody, And I'm sure they have a

737
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 6: meaningful life that they have in Star Wars, but it

738
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 6: doesn't have to be po in order to have it

739
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 6: be really special for me, and I think again the

740
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 6: magic trick, it wasn't just that Tony had to create

741
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 6: the and or show that explained his journey. It's the

742
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 6: fact that he found an entire pocket of Star Wars

743
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 6: where he could operate with complete freedom and have it

744
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 6: be unconnected from everything else and have all of the

745
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 6: meaning that we love, and so that I think I

746
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 6: just want to hold with that space that he can.

747
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 5: I think it's fun and I think it's like emotional,

748
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 5: and the impact of it is like it doesn't it's

749
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,839
Speaker 5: not taken away by it being nobody that makes it

750
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 5: more special, you know. But then obviously, I think as

751
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 5: Star Wars fans and especially people who love the animated

752
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 5: series and stuff, and.

753
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 6: The people who read a lot of X Men comments.

754
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 5: You can't kind of help start making those connections. Joelle,

755
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 5: I know me and you were both big We enjoyed

756
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 5: how this theory made us feel.

757
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 7: So I will say that in the initial discovery of

758
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 7: it and reading it in the discord, I was like,

759
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 7: that's exciting because I had seen it's so funny this

760
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 7: person predicted the baby before the baby showed up in

761
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 7: the episode. Yes, yes, and I had already seen these episodes,

762
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 7: so I was like, how did what is going on?

763
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 7: So I had like some time to sit with it

764
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:44,000
Speaker 7: and think about it. In the end, I think I

765
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 7: do sort of feel the same way that I felt.

766
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 7: And they were like, oh, Finns related lander.

767
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 5: Could you imagine that there's more than three Latinos in space?

768
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 7: Like right here you are? So I think, and I

769
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,400
Speaker 7: just think, like me, that baby represents like everything about

770
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 7: the show, like if you oh man, like the ability

771
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 7: to go back to the space that felt like home

772
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 7: for Bicks, to like raise a kid there, to find

773
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 7: a relative sense of peace finally for her, like I

774
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 7: think this. You know, we talked so much about our

775
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 7: fear of Bis getting fridged.

776
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 5: And then the.

777
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 7: Yeah, there was a lot of folks who felt like

778
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 7: betrayed when she left. They were like, how could you

779
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 7: leave Cassian? And even now I will say what I

780
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 7: was like, she'd better not be holding a baby. I

781
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 7: was like, this, bitch, I'm so upset, how dare you play?

782
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 7: Told him he would have absolutely like the whole point,

783
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 7: like I know that you cannot you can barely focus

784
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:56,959
Speaker 7: worrying about me, And because Cassian lost his whole entire

785
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 7: family fighting this thing and understands what is to grow up,

786
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 7: you know, first having lost a set of parents and

787
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 7: then mourning another one murdered in the town square. Like

788
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 7: I don't think Cassian could put his kids through that.

789
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 7: I really think like the whole concept of fatherhood would

790
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 7: have changed him. And BIGX was like, but you're doing

791
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 7: the highest good here, and you're really good at this.

792
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 7: There's no one Luthen trusts more except Clia, Like you

793
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 7: have to stay and I need peace. Like she she's

794
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 7: breaking down under this, not because she's the weak person,

795
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 7: but because she.

796
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 5: Is like for so much more than every much more.

797
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,720
Speaker 6: She couldn't be there with a baby on Javin, trying

798
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 6: to trying to send and around on missions no.

799
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 7: And so for her to carve out a space of

800
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 7: peace for herself, I just thought, like, this is the

801
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 7: most beautiful possible ending you could give her.

802
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 6: And that shot, that shot of her in the field,

803
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 6: my god.

804
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 5: Kind of like looking up to the sky of knowing

805
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 5: that Cassian's doing the thing he needs to do. And

806
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 5: I also love exactly and I also love the the

807
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,919
Speaker 5: while I the openness that Tony gave us here, which

808
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 5: is like you can have whatever version of that ending

809
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 5: that you want, Like for now, you can imagine that

810
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:11,840
Speaker 5: that baby is whoever you want, or it's nobody. I

811
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 5: would love to see Bicks get to be a kind

812
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 5: of more classical rebellion hero. But you know what else,

813
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 5: I would love for her to just be able to

814
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 5: live on like Big Week forever with her baby and

815
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 5: just raise a chill baby in the happiness and the

816
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 5: freedom the few years a bit that they get from

817
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 5: the sacrifice that Cassian left, and I think that that

818
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 5: is a really powerful place to leave us. And also,

819
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 5: as somebody put in the group chat, you know, the

820
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 5: only person who's getting fridged in this show is it

821
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 5: was Cyril They Fridge the guy, which like never happens.

822
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 6: How about the hat trick of the show is called

823
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 6: and Or, And we always assumed that it's about it's

824
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 6: about Cassian, but when we get to episode twelve of

825
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 6: season one, we realize Marva and Or is the one

826
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 6: who first likes to spark on Feryx. And then now

827
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 6: we have a third and Or who is born, and

828
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 6: so in a way, it's it's reflecting all three generations.

829
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 8: I love it really is.

830
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 7: Oh wow, I hadn't thought about that. I just think

831
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,840
Speaker 7: this flows really well into the cannon of Star Wars,

832
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 7: and it really sets of blueprint for other creators who

833
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,360
Speaker 7: might want to come in and dabble in this universe

834
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 7: in ways that are different. You know. I was reading

835
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 7: that some people felt like this was a pretty nihilistic show.

836
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 7: I beg to differ.

837
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:34,760
Speaker 5: Very hopeful.

838
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 7: Yeah, not only is it very hopeful, but like, if

839
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 7: you're a nihilist, there's really not a reason to fight, Like,

840
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 7: there's no there's no reason to get up in the

841
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 7: morning and and try to fight in these streets as

842
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 7: a nihilist, what do you It doesn't make no sense.

843
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 7: I just feel like there's there's so much beauty and

844
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 7: hope and love in this show and the way that

845
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 7: they've allowed again big holes for us to either feel

846
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 7: in theory. You know, we love doing that space for

847
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 7: other writers come in and pick up the story in

848
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 7: enough left on the end that if you wanted to

849
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 7: pick up this story an interesting way, you can without

850
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 7: all interfering with what's been done here. I think it's

851
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 7: just brilliant, ye, Jnihilism.

852
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I was gonna say, Jason, is there anything

853
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 6: you think they missed? Like, is there is there anything

854
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 6: you you wish they would have done or a different

855
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 6: a different choice.

856
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 5: Not really, I mean it was in his bag.

857
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 2: I do think that there was.

858
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: I was always interested in the interior imperial politics, you know.

859
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: I think that they did a good job of sketching

860
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: the the frictions between the different levels of hierarchy in

861
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: and how you know, you've always got to be completely

862
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 1: subservient to whoever your bosses, and very careful to never

863
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: outshine your boss.

864
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 5: Or the rule of two is like real doing some filter.

865
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 5: It's filtered down down, politics hapened, and so I really enjoyed,

866
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 5: you know, like Krenick is such a.

867
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: He's such an evil, but like almost comically slapstick, like

868
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 1: he doesn't understand that he's stepping on rakes every time

869
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 1: he turns this way, and that he doesn't understand or

870
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 1: see the full scope of what a fucking dumbass he is.

871
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 7: He's definitely someone who's been given power without having had

872
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 7: to earn it at all, because there's no concept to

873
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 7: your point, Jason, of like how are my actions having

874
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 7: caught everyone? Even your closest at part of gas is like, uh, hey, guy,

875
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 7: you should have been done with this, like a long

876
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 7: time ago.

877
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 8: We are wide, are they?

878
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 7: He sound like Tarken. Dude, calm down, fine, We're almost there.

879
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 1: You don't understand the whole project hinges on one guy

880
00:48:58,560 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: who doesn't even want to be.

881
00:48:59,520 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 8: Building the.

882
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 5: Don't worry, We'll make him do it and so, And from.

883
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 2: That perspective, I.

884
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: Would have liked a little bit more Empire, but I

885
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 1: don't need it, and I you know, I'm left with

886
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: absolutely no qualms about everything that I saw. I think

887
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: it was the show so far exceeded my expectations that

888
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: it's kind of the only.

889
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 6: Turn that I wanted to see, and I did not

890
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 6: expect it. But as a season began, I had a

891
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 6: soft spot for the ultimate l v P parent.

892
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 8: Oh so seeing him and that last time.

893
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 2: With Golden's wife.

894
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 7: So, so what happened to.

895
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 8: Perfect? It's so good, it's too good.

896
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 7: This is your daughter's mother in law.

897
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 5: Parents fucking good.

898
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 7: And I don't think you fight off the gags the

899
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 7: parent made poor parent's dead.

900
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: Well, I think scolding is yeah, skulling clearly like out

901
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: of the picture, maybe for various.

902
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:12,879
Speaker 2: Reasons, and uh.

903
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 5: Also hi, yeah, maybe moving up or for whatever reason.

904
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 6: I guess, But I wanted to see Paren like he

905
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 6: was the young firebrand, and I was hoping that in

906
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 6: some small way, not that he would go to Yavin

907
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 6: or something, but that in some small way he would

908
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 6: have been inspired by Mon's choice and and made some contribution.

909
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 6: That's the only change I would have like seen.

910
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: It makes sense, I will say that.

911
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: I here's what I love about the Parent character is,

912
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 1: you know, I think anybody that's been around like uh,

913
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: progressive politics, protests or whatever, he's aware of the person

914
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 1: who's like there because it's cool, right, And I think, you.

915
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 2: Know, Paren was kind of one of those.

916
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 5: He had a lot to say, but he is not

917
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 5: interested in doing anything more than that. His wife is

918
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 5: incredibly hot, and for a while he's just like going

919
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,319
Speaker 5: along with it. Rich he kind of hates to see

920
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 5: her shine or kind of move beyond his his meanings,

921
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 5: I think. And he made his choice. And we talked

922
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 5: quite a lot about that moment because it is so

923
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 5: depressing and sad when you just see him there and

924
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 5: it's like, yeah, drink through it, man, enjoy your plu

925
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 5: in this to.

926
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: Me is a nihilistic That's a nihilistic character who just says, yeah,

927
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 1: let's just let's.

928
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 7: Just keep going.

929
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 5: Let's just drink through it and uncomfortable.

930
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: Enough, and I can medicate myself through this, and that's fine.

931
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 1: The nihilism charge is interesting to me because to me,

932
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: what I think people are saying with that is.

933
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 2: That they just want a happier ending.

934
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 5: They want they were heroes.

935
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 1: They the level of sacrifice makes them uncomfortable in the

936
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 1: context of us Star Wars story, and they want to

937
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: see those metals get pinned on chests.

938
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 7: Yeah, and if there is a legitimate like claim to that,

939
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 7: I know, here's what I'll say.

940
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 5: Okay, So I know that.

941
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 7: Star Wars is originally a series for children, and I

942
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 7: think that's beautiful. And I think we have an egregious

943
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 7: amount of content for children that is specifically Star Wars

944
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 7: that speaks to them and warns of the dangers of war,

945
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 7: which I feel like is really important. I also think

946
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 7: it's really important that this show is talking strictly to

947
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 7: adults about not just the consequences, but like what fallout

948
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 7: looks like, like what sacrifice might have to look like.

949
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 7: The people that you might are being told are rebels

950
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:46,840
Speaker 7: aren't like, actually look at what they're doing. Examine that. Like,

951
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 7: it to me really exemplifies what those lessons are supposed

952
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 7: to be and drive them home for an older age.

953
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 7: And I think that's great. I mean, we're all comics people.

954
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,800
Speaker 7: We're used to characters being shoved into different shapes and

955
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 7: forms and tones to fit an audience. I think that

956
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 7: that's okay to have in Star Wars. And I think

957
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 7: it's totally fine if you watch this and you're like,

958
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,360
Speaker 7: this is too blique for me, I'm not interested in

959
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 7: I think that's totally fair. I completely understand that. I

960
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 7: just I do think that I have a great deal

961
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,879
Speaker 7: of appreciation for this thing I've left for a long time,

962
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,200
Speaker 7: sort of growing up and step and in the space

963
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 7: that I can step up to and and enjoy. I

964
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 7: think it's important.

965
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm just gonna.

966
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 7: Get the accolades.

967
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 5: Do you think I think it's gonna get I think accolades.

968
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 8: I think are we.

969
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 7: Talking statues are talking hard.

970
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,439
Speaker 8: I think it's gonna get.

971
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 5: I think it's gonna get nominations. Will it win questionable,

972
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 5: that's still scared of genre, that's still scared of these

973
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,359
Speaker 5: kind of big I P properties. But I do think

974
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:52,799
Speaker 5: it's gonna I think it will get amount of nominations.

975
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: The critical claim is overwhelming, So they've got that and

976
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 1: the people in the awarding post and never underestimate the

977
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: power of the Disney marketing machine to make the case

978
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: that this is a.

979
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 7: Great showering of awards. So I think it's got a

980
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 7: good shot.

981
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 2: I think it's got a really good shot.

982
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,959
Speaker 7: I think I think they'll follow a lot of shows

983
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,160
Speaker 7: other trends, which is like we'll really lean into eight

984
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 7: and probably ten, go for what like Luthin, maybe Claya

985
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 7: definitely and orm I think those are their acting categories.

986
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 5: From last from that season where it's like then you

987
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,240
Speaker 5: start to narrow in, like Bella won like three different awards,

988
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 5: I think, and you start to focus. I think, if

989
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 5: there's any justice, I do think Diego should be really

990
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 5: in those conversations. But I also think Diego has the

991
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:53,320
Speaker 5: ultimate problem, which is he is so so talented that

992
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:56,800
Speaker 5: he makes it look easy and oftentimes award. If you

993
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:00,239
Speaker 5: are very consistent and always great, it can be really

994
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 5: hard for a war shows to recognize you, and I

995
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 5: think that could be an issue. But yeah, I mean,

996
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 5: as we have and many others have speculated, the drop

997
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 5: format seems to imply it was because they wanted to

998
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,360
Speaker 5: get him for this year's Emmys and stuff, and it

999
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,879
Speaker 5: is the most highly rated and critically acclaimed Star Wars

1000
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 5: live action project ever, So I will be interested to

1001
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 5: see what this year's award season looks like. And I

1002
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,040
Speaker 5: just want to say I do think on the nihilism frame,

1003
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 5: and this is not a critique. I do think one

1004
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 5: of the reasons it's easy to make that read is

1005
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:38,320
Speaker 5: because Tony's quotes. He is a man who has a

1006
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 5: realistic outlook on life. So he's out here and he's like,

1007
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,840
Speaker 5: six thousand years of human history, most of it fucking sucked.

1008
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 5: He's like, most of it was famine, and this could

1009
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 5: be in any time. And if you don't see that,

1010
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:53,399
Speaker 5: like thinking you live in a unique period of time

1011
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 5: is like myopic. And I think his view on humanity

1012
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 5: and human history, which is just realistic, it can seem nihilistic.

1013
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:03,600
Speaker 5: And I think if you're reading those quotes and the

1014
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 5: show is already kind of bumming you out, maybe you

1015
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 5: read it that way, but this is, you know, this

1016
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 5: is they have introduced.

1017
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 9: Now, the.

1018
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 5: Introduction of a rebellion is built on hope, and it's

1019
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 5: the guy who works the hotel in Gorman who makes

1020
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 5: that choice, makes that sacrifice, as Jason has been putting

1021
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 5: it this season, which I love, gums up the machine

1022
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 5: in any little way he can. And that is what

1023
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 5: the show is about. The show is about the hope

1024
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 5: of a rebellion. It's about the hope of something better

1025
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 5: for other people because you might not be here to

1026
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 5: see it, but you believe that the action you are

1027
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 5: taking could help others. That's like the most hopeful thing

1028
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:38,680
Speaker 5: you can have.

1029
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, And it was and or engaging him that in

1030
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 6: a way that other people hadn't engaged him, as he's

1031
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 6: dropped off bags in one hundred rooms a hundred times.

1032
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 6: He took the moment to draw him out and get

1033
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,439
Speaker 6: that conversation that started it, that brought it back.

1034
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 5: My god, I mean huge.

1035
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break before them. The Emperor's shuttle arrives,

1036
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:12,439
Speaker 1: the walkway descends, and himself comes walking down the gang

1037
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,280
Speaker 1: plank to tell us his issues.

1038
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 8: And we're back.

1039
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 5: We're back.

1040
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 2: Age.

1041
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: If you have not been aware of what's been happening

1042
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: in these round tables, uh, we like to close the

1043
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: conversation by inviting super producer Aaron to the proceedings to

1044
00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: just be a little bit of the dark side of

1045
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: the forest, a little bit of choking, a little bit

1046
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: of finger lighting, just a little bit, a little bit

1047
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: of evil thought projection, and to tell us, you know,

1048
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,920
Speaker 1: all the things that were wrong.

1049
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:12,959
Speaker 5: About I'm actually so excited to see H's reactions to this. Aaron,

1050
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 5: tell us, what are the three worst things that happened

1051
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 5: in and in the finale?

1052
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 8: In the finale, the three worst things are they introduced

1053
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 8: K two in a way that he's so overpowered that

1054
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 8: they couldn't have him anywhere else. He couldn't have been

1055
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 8: in the rest of the story because they it would

1056
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 8: have been three episodes and would be done because Kate

1057
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 8: the K two droids were fascinatingly strong and scary.

1058
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 5: He is op and I love.

1059
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,240
Speaker 8: Yes, that's not really a bad thing. I did say,

1060
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 8: you know, I think it was last week. One of

1061
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 8: my biggest complaints was Cyril becoming like a hand to

1062
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 8: hand like true karate master out of nowhere.

1063
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 10: Okay, all I have to say that that was the

1064
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 10: last expatch though, well, I just want to say the

1065
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,800
Speaker 10: Discord did have some things to say about that, which was,

1066
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 10: you know, he used to be an agent, you think

1067
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 10: have some training.

1068
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:11,880
Speaker 5: He was secure a like, come on our and the

1069
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 5: discord was not happy about us.

1070
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 8: Have you never signed someone up before? I look at

1071
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 8: Cyril one minute and I'm like, he doesn't know how

1072
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:21,360
Speaker 8: to fight. I get that, butted him from it was

1073
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 8: like not. But I will say I did appreciate these

1074
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 8: three episodes actually made me change my mind because it

1075
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 8: really highlights this idea that even these individuals who are

1076
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 8: maybe fighting for the cause or the team, all of

1077
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 8: them are still being led by their own personal desires

1078
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 8: and biases, and so many of them went off the

1079
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 8: rails in these three episodes because of that. Soddre is

1080
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 8: hell bent on finding Cassian and Luthan and that is

1081
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 8: her ultimate downfall, and so the same thing with Cyril.

1082
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 8: So I did actually kind of change my mind a

1083
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 8: little bit on that guys coal mine for it. Yeah,

1084
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 8: another thing, I mean I joked about it with K

1085
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 8: two s O what Another one of my complaints previously

1086
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 8: was did we need this hide of a budget? Like

1087
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:13,920
Speaker 8: is this just gonna be bad if it doesn't the.

1088
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 2: Wallet the wallet Inspector has returned.

1089
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 8: And then they had K two playing cards.

1090
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 5: Have you seen the budget for Indoor Season two? Mister

1091
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 5: Igerat's absolutely. Larren's texting Ike Palma and he's definitely are

1092
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 5: using some some low of safety clips.

1093
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 7: In this one extra walk by for two seconds in

1094
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 7: full make up.

1095
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 5: Okay, take how much?

1096
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 8: But but then they had K two playing cards, and

1097
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,919
Speaker 8: they had K two picking up people from their front

1098
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 8: plates and dropping them. Loved it. If they try a

1099
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 8: single dollar away from the K two c G I

1100
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 8: would have been upset.

1101
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 2: So I appreciate.

1102
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 5: I love this. It's turning around. I, in.

1103
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 8: All honesty, didn't have anything to complain about with these

1104
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 8: last episodes. Jason brought Jason brought this up. One of

1105
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,360
Speaker 8: my favorite things was looking inside the Empire and getting

1106
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 8: this really different view and seeing like the internal politics

1107
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 8: of party gas, realizing like I'm just gonna fucking I'm

1108
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 8: going down with the ship, like I have no way out,

1109
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 8: I'm just taking my life here, and then seeing the

1110
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 8: helmetless like bitch ass stormtroopers like I fucking hated them,

1111
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 8: and it was so good. I was just like in

1112
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 8: my notes, I'm like these fucking cops and then like, hmmm,

1113
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 8: that whole hallway scene. I mean, Disney knows how to

1114
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 8: do a hallway scene. Yeah, I loved it, and I

1115
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 8: loved seeing them as these like the shaved heads and

1116
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 8: the big ass mustache, and I'm like, this is this

1117
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 8: is a different side of Stormtroopers we never see, Yeah,

1118
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 8: we never see their face, and then we never see

1119
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 8: them scared and that was really cool.

1120
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,400
Speaker 5: Okay, because of this, because you're here in a in

1121
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 5: an unbelievably shocking twist as a lover of the finalege.

1122
01:02:06,120 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 8: And you kind of Darth Vader at the end, take off,

1123
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 8: take off, my.

1124
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,919
Speaker 2: Look upon you this time?

1125
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,320
Speaker 7: My own us?

1126
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 8: And two do you still have them?

1127
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 5: Annequin? Let's talk because none of us touched on this.

1128
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 5: So let's end on a celebratory note. How I'm not

1129
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 5: going to actually do a leading question? Do you enjoy

1130
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:42,360
Speaker 5: Dead Dra's bye where we left? Because I think that

1131
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 5: was one of the most satisfying parts of the show

1132
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 5: for me.

1133
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 8: I loved it so much. I couldn't think of a

1134
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 8: better way. Yeah, I couldn't think of a better way

1135
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 8: for her story to end with her. Like in that

1136
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 8: same my wife came home as I was finishishing the

1137
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,120
Speaker 8: final episode, and so like I just burst out laughing

1138
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,920
Speaker 8: at that moment. She didn't has not watched any of it,

1139
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 8: so I had to explain some of it to her.

1140
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 8: Then we went back and we watched all of the

1141
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:14,200
Speaker 8: K two S scenes, so you see all of that.

1142
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 8: But yeah, I loved it. I thought that was like

1143
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 8: such an incredible way, and she does an incredible job

1144
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,320
Speaker 8: acting there where you there's no words, nothing, she just

1145
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 8: puts her hands in her head, in her hands, in

1146
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 8: complete defeat. And that, I I what an incredible callback

1147
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 8: to this place that I think the best episodes of

1148
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 8: season one agree and to have her there and it's like,

1149
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 8: you know, a lot of people didn't get things right,

1150
01:03:41,800 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 8: like you know, the family of anyone who's involved in

1151
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 8: this probably died. And it is also, like you said,

1152
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 8: locked up in that same prison. But for her to

1153
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 8: be there, I love that. Yeah. Do you think she

1154
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 8: gets out? Do you think she gets out.

1155
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 7: Five years the last time they'll ever let this happen?

1156
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, And we get a second death Star and we know.

1157
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 7: This is where they're built. No way she's dying in here,

1158
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:11,440
Speaker 7: She's getting moved floor to floor uto eternity.

1159
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: I also know I will say there's a chance maybe

1160
01:04:14,560 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: in the New Republic era, that she gets that amnesty

1161
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:17,920
Speaker 1: and gets to go.

1162
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,000
Speaker 2: To one of these Yeah, because she wants.

1163
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 1: You know, like castaway facilities where you're reintegrated into But

1164
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 1: I think she never come I think.

1165
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 5: The thing that is so powerful about that ending, and

1166
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 5: that I think is a really brilliant kind of lesson

1167
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 5: and statement is Dedra's dream was to be known for

1168
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 5: what she did and her part in the rebellion, and

1169
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 5: I mean her part in the empire and crushing the rebellion.

1170
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 5: And I think that we know from what we saw

1171
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 5: in Knakina before, and we know from the way that

1172
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 5: prisons work in the real world. Not that this show

1173
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 5: has any reflections of real life, obviously, let's not. Let's

1174
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 5: not like draw any lines. I'm not come back. But

1175
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 5: like she is forgotten. That's the real truth. She will

1176
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 5: never get the credit. No one is thinking of her,

1177
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 5: and she knows because she has sent many many people

1178
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 5: to those prisons, that she is now forgotten. She is irrelevant.

1179
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 5: And what led her there was a quest and an

1180
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 5: obsession with basically punishing people and they end up there

1181
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 5: is so fitting.

1182
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 7: It's perfect ending for this character who we followed through

1183
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 7: a lot of ups and downs. I think Denise Gout

1184
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 7: should walk away with the statue, like I agree anybody

1185
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 7: gets it, like obviously like what Scar's guard did Luvin

1186
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:48,120
Speaker 7: is phenomenal. Yes, but there's such a like, my god,

1187
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 7: the her coming in for her victory laugh is hysterical,

1188
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 7: like the way she's able to play both the comedy

1189
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 7: of the scene because we understand Luthn is planned for

1190
01:05:58,800 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 7: this and so there's no way out for her, like

1191
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 7: she's not gonna get what she wants. The doubled into

1192
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 7: triple on Hondras and the writing there. I just think

1193
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:11,560
Speaker 7: that when we get Yeah, it's really beautiful writing, it

1194
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 7: picks up that night is like we don't know, it's authentic,

1195
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 7: like find out I don't know, Yeah to her like

1196
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 7: literally her fall to her feet, to the scene that

1197
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 7: we get with Krenick, which I mean Ben Meddleston on

1198
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,680
Speaker 7: a kick. But I just think like that ending for her,

1199
01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 7: not only is it fitting, but like in the human

1200
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,640
Speaker 7: side of Dedre that we got to see, like there's

1201
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 7: such an element of like, yes, all she wants is

1202
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,280
Speaker 7: the glory and she's a bad person. She was really

1203
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 7: excited to torture Luthan, like she was like Doney coreabout

1204
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 7: She's like I've got time, okay for you.

1205
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 2: I've been waiting in his belly.

1206
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, yes, near to death and then do it all

1207
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,120
Speaker 7: over again. This is what she's the part of her

1208
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 7: job that she's most excited about. A despicable humor, which

1209
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 7: also a person who never again had any kind of

1210
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 7: sense of like love, like.

1211
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 5: Well by the Empire, she was an orphan.

1212
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,960
Speaker 7: She's in a cult essentially, and how do you get

1213
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,240
Speaker 7: rewarded in this cult by being the most ruthless And

1214
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 7: she's climbing the ladder. She's found a way. It's awful,

1215
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 7: but it's true. And then for them to show, okase

1216
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 7: like no matter what role you play, that you're gonna

1217
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:23,920
Speaker 7: die like I just love the way they set that

1218
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 7: up with that.

1219
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 1: Here's what's interesting to me about Dedra's character. As we

1220
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:29,960
Speaker 1: as we have said many times, this is a show

1221
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 1: that has no connection.

1222
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 2: To real life, but it's kind of the you know,

1223
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 2: we've gone through.

1224
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 1: An age and government of like technocrats, people with immense

1225
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:43,360
Speaker 1: intellect and ability to get into positions and just know

1226
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: how stuff works, right, and we see the value in that.

1227
01:07:48,400 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: I think Dedra would have thrived under the Republic or

1228
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 1: the New Republic exact same role I think she would be.

1229
01:07:57,080 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: I think people would be like, Wow, I'm just good

1230
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 1: at her job. Im Burials like great, but it shows

1231
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: you the danger of a technocrat with no ethics morals.

1232
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 1: This is a person who was just like, I want

1233
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 1: to be great at my job and I don't really

1234
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: care of what the right or wrong about what we're doing.

1235
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,200
Speaker 1: And those people are dangerous as well, though in a

1236
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: in a different context than truly bad actors, people who

1237
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,920
Speaker 1: were out there with truly malign uh intentions, which I

1238
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,519
Speaker 1: never thought Dejah really had true malign intentions. She was

1239
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,599
Speaker 1: just like, this is I'm following the law. I'm I'm

1240
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: out here hunting down spies and I'm good at it.

1241
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 8: I'm playing for the team. Yeah, I'm an MVP.

1242
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 5: Will remember me well because yeah, need they need the

1243
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 5: planet right?

1244
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 1: And again, I think if she was working for the Republic,

1245
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 1: people would be like, yeah, that's good, like we I

1246
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 1: have no qualms about working with Dad, and I think

1247
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: that what is so satisfying. In one of my darker

1248
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: moments on the off MI in the X Ray Vision,

1249
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 1: Zoom I once said to this gathering, not h but

1250
01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:09,719
Speaker 1: everybody else.

1251
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 8: You know what, I've.

1252
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 1: Decided that I'm pro mass incarceration, but only for the

1253
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: bad people, and that's how I feel about the final

1254
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 1: outcome for death. It's terrible the place that she's been

1255
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 1: thrown into, but I can't think of a better place.

1256
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 8: Yea.

1257
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:31,560
Speaker 1: Yes, I have another should take We should dismantle that

1258
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:32,680
Speaker 1: entire structure, but.

1259
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 2: I'm glad to just leave her.

1260
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 4: Yea.

1261
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:39,040
Speaker 8: I have another real world connection that I want to

1262
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 8: ask poses a question because in my head I was like,

1263
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 8: could we do some spin off that's like an X

1264
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 8: Force or I m F with like Claya and Vell

1265
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:49,880
Speaker 8: and Bix and like them doing all anything that the

1266
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 8: Rebel Council cant to. But I came up with a

1267
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,639
Speaker 8: better way of posing it. Who would win one hundred

1268
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 8: clayas or a rank RPS and we give Clay and

1269
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 8: Claia gets to like outfit the room that they're fighting.

1270
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:04,360
Speaker 2: Are so overrated.

1271
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 5: There is very I think one could be around.

1272
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 1: And the muscles around the throat of the ring cord

1273
01:10:16,160 --> 01:10:18,920
Speaker 1: clearly mers strong enough to protect the wind pipe.

1274
01:10:18,920 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 2: And if you get to that wind.

1275
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 7: Pipe, it's.

1276
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 5: Most video games and even I have beaten irand Court

1277
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:29,000
Speaker 5: just throwing some bones to distract it before I get

1278
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 5: my light sabers out like I think Clay I will

1279
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:35,320
Speaker 5: be fine. Yes, thank you, this is a joy.

1280
01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: Season two our final season two Xtra Vision round Table.

1281
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 5: H h.

1282
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us and being such a wonderful

1283
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:44,559
Speaker 1: guest and voice on the round table.

1284
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:47,960
Speaker 6: Thank you for having me you yes, yeah, you'll you see. Yeah,

1285
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 6: you could find a skate patch wherever you listen to

1286
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 6: your podcast. We just did episode two hundred and fifty

1287
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:53,759
Speaker 6: with Jason Concepts.

1288
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:55,960
Speaker 8: We did a vampire strikes back.

1289
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:58,639
Speaker 6: It's an amazing episode and I would say folks should

1290
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 6: also check out Rosy's to entry which was Twilight, which

1291
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:06,080
Speaker 6: is a legendary episode. But we have and or coverage

1292
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 6: and everything. Just check check it out online.

1293
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, and lots of crossover between our two discords, so

1294
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:12,639
Speaker 5: if you're already get an x ray Vision discord, you'll

1295
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 5: feel just at home, just as at home at the

1296
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:15,639
Speaker 5: Escape Patch Discord.

1297
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:16,800
Speaker 8: We we love y'all.

1298
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 6: We appreciate so much everything you've done.

1299
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1300
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:19,439
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1301
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 1: Coming up this week on x ray Vision Tomorrow, join

1302
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 1: us for news and a couple of interviews with the

1303
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 1: cast and creators for Apple TV Plus's new Murder Bots

1304
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 1: series and adaptation Yes Books. Then on Monday, we'll see

1305
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 1: how Ellie breaks our heart this week with the last

1306
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 1: of US two six. Tuesday, we're celebrating the dual anniversaries

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Speaker 1: of Empire Shrinks back to the Revenge of the Sith. Thursday,

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Speaker 1: We've got a New We've Got Thursday, We've Got a

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Speaker 1: Need for Speed recaps of the entire Mission Impossible series.

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Speaker 1: And then Friday, we're introduced to the new series, in

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Speaker 1: which we will feature our long delayed review of Sinners Saturday.

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Speaker 2: For this episode, thanks for listening, Bye bye.

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Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie

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Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 5: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.

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Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.

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Speaker 5: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay Wag.

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Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme

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Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.

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Speaker 5: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and

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Speaker 5: Heidi our discord moderator