WEBVTT - 12. A Nasty Piece of Work 0:00:15.036 --> 0:00:25.036 Pushkin. For most of Mickey's adult life, he was on 0:00:25.076 --> 0:00:30.516 the run, hiding, changing identities, trying to stay one step 0:00:30.556 --> 0:00:35.716 ahead of everyone. He called himself a gypsy. He called 0:00:35.756 --> 0:00:40.676 himself a wandering rabbi. He saw himself as cast out 0:00:40.716 --> 0:00:45.956 of Golden Malibu as it changed before his eyes. Linda 0:00:46.036 --> 0:00:48.636 Kai was with Mickey on and off for the better 0:00:48.636 --> 0:00:52.436 part of a decade. She was his longest term romantic partner, 0:00:52.876 --> 0:00:56.596 his confidante, and his partner in crime. And when they 0:00:56.596 --> 0:00:58.916 weren't together, he wrote to her. 0:00:59.756 --> 0:01:06.516 And there's some There are sixty four letters from all 0:01:06.556 --> 0:01:11.156 over the world with addresses in sta amps and this 0:01:11.396 --> 0:01:15.916 was all with Mickey. And see his artwork. Yeah, this 0:01:16.036 --> 0:01:21.356 is a lot of us must there's a lot of 0:01:21.436 --> 0:01:23.996 lure in here, would you say? The love letters. 0:01:24.956 --> 0:01:27.116 Linda and I are sitting at the breakfast table of 0:01:27.156 --> 0:01:31.156 her mobile home in Ventura. Light streams in through the windows. 0:01:32.036 --> 0:01:34.916 On the table between us is the black binder where 0:01:34.956 --> 0:01:38.916 she keeps the letters from Mickey. Flipping through the binder, 0:01:39.076 --> 0:01:44.156 I'm overwhelmed by the explosion of strange drawings of cats 0:01:44.196 --> 0:01:47.196 and witches and cataclysmic world events. 0:01:47.996 --> 0:01:49.276 Also jokes. 0:01:50.156 --> 0:01:52.876 There's a clipping from a newspaper of a man surrounded 0:01:52.876 --> 0:01:58.556 by credit card applications. Quote mister plastic fantastic collector has 0:01:58.636 --> 0:02:01.316 seven hundred and eighty eight credit cards, can't stop applying, 0:02:01.916 --> 0:02:04.236 and what appears to be a photo of Mickey Dora 0:02:04.436 --> 0:02:10.396 pasted onto his head. There are formulas, equations and references 0:02:10.436 --> 0:02:15.516 to the episodic wave. There's some mathematical formulas. 0:02:15.596 --> 0:02:18.956 Yes, everything is a secret, and you know, well, it's 0:02:19.036 --> 0:02:21.156 like I was. I was scared to death when I 0:02:21.156 --> 0:02:24.316 would get one and I had to let it sit 0:02:24.396 --> 0:02:28.836 for a while. Wow, this is yeah. I had to 0:02:28.916 --> 0:02:30.756 let them sit for a couple of weeks before I 0:02:30.796 --> 0:02:33.996 actually would open them to get I'm head right, you know, 0:02:34.116 --> 0:02:35.676 to be sure. I was ready to read this some 0:02:35.756 --> 0:02:39.236 of this stuff because a lot of it's super paranoia 0:02:40.556 --> 0:02:43.716 about the world and collapse from the Russians. And you know, 0:02:43.756 --> 0:02:44.036 he was. 0:02:44.076 --> 0:02:48.916 Way In the letters, Mickey makes liberal use of the 0:02:49.036 --> 0:02:54.276 N word. He also indulges in blatant Internet style anti 0:02:54.356 --> 0:02:59.716 Semitic conspiracy theories. Quote the Jews Zionists are the richest 0:02:59.716 --> 0:03:02.596 people in the world and control much of its destiny. 0:03:03.436 --> 0:03:08.636 Jews like Lord Rothschild every day in ironclad secrecy decide 0:03:08.716 --> 0:03:11.516 and flat around the world how high the price of 0:03:11.516 --> 0:03:16.716 gold should be on a particular day. That would be 0:03:16.956 --> 0:03:22.116 Philip de Rothschild, his father's employer, the same person Mickey 0:03:22.156 --> 0:03:25.476 would steal stationary from whenever he had the chance. 0:03:26.556 --> 0:03:30.196 The conspiracies rent rampant in his head. No, he never 0:03:30.316 --> 0:03:34.236 was like talking about aliens. It was always the nuclear bomb. 0:03:34.476 --> 0:03:36.396 This was all about New Zealand. You know, let's go 0:03:36.436 --> 0:03:39.076 to New Zealand where it's safe. He didn't want to 0:03:39.076 --> 0:03:41.156 be in the northern hemisphere. He said, Oh, it's going 0:03:41.196 --> 0:03:44.396 to be radiation, it's going to be trouble, everything's going 0:03:44.436 --> 0:03:47.356 to blow up. A lot of the letters contain all this, 0:03:48.116 --> 0:03:50.316 and sometimes I couldn't read them. I was like, this 0:03:50.396 --> 0:03:50.836 is awful. 0:03:50.916 --> 0:03:51.116 You know. 0:03:52.396 --> 0:03:55.716 It says here in this letter. Can you smell it? 0:03:55.716 --> 0:04:00.556 It's the asshole conspiracy. The spread of assholeism during the 0:04:00.636 --> 0:04:05.276 last century has been orchestrated on the part of a 0:04:05.476 --> 0:04:10.636 secret international conspiracy. Experts have believed that the problems of 0:04:10.676 --> 0:04:14.476 society could be blamed on poverty, ignorance, exploitation, racism, sexism, 0:04:14.956 --> 0:04:18.316 or the devil, but they were wrong. These problems were 0:04:18.356 --> 0:04:23.556 created by well placed assholes in the media, government, education, 0:04:23.796 --> 0:04:28.156 and religion who kept society stirred up and confused with 0:04:28.276 --> 0:04:35.116 their little brown tricks, a worldwide revolution, a social enema 0:04:35.236 --> 0:04:41.036 to purge assholes and assholeism forever all my best m 0:04:41.076 --> 0:04:46.956 and s. Boy, did you start to think at some 0:04:47.076 --> 0:04:52.436 point that he was really losing it? Like it got worse, 0:04:52.596 --> 0:04:56.396 the sort of paranoia and the conspiracy thinking and the 0:04:56.476 --> 0:04:58.156 sort of darkness of his vision. 0:04:58.356 --> 0:05:04.916 Yes. When I started reading and educating myself, I was thinking, 0:05:05.196 --> 0:05:08.956 this is you know, where is Russia getting us in? 0:05:09.716 --> 0:05:12.276 Why are we having a thing with Russia? There's nothing 0:05:12.316 --> 0:05:17.476 going on, you know, Mickey saw something bad in situations, 0:05:17.556 --> 0:05:22.756 probably a lot of them in I was interested in 0:05:22.796 --> 0:05:25.556 the surfing bar, not all this conspiracy stuff. 0:05:25.676 --> 0:05:25.916 You know. 0:05:27.476 --> 0:05:31.436 At a certain point, the darkness it threatened to engulf her, 0:05:31.836 --> 0:05:37.276 and she fled. But Mickey's fear, whatever he was running from, 0:05:37.796 --> 0:05:42.956 it affected Linda's whole life, and not only Linda's. The 0:05:43.076 --> 0:05:48.516 dark Prince cast a shadow over Malibu and surfing, and 0:05:48.556 --> 0:05:51.596 it was the people around him that paid the price. 0:05:55.796 --> 0:06:26.236 I'm Dana Goodyear and this is Lost Hills, episode twelve, 0:06:27.156 --> 0:06:34.356 A nasty piece of work. Mickey's whole life was a 0:06:34.436 --> 0:06:36.636 giant fu to society. 0:06:37.516 --> 0:06:39.076 I used to say to people when they would give 0:06:39.116 --> 0:06:41.916 me the oh, by god, Mickey Dora, unbelievable euch a, 0:06:42.076 --> 0:06:44.676 you know, and I would just say, if you really 0:06:44.716 --> 0:06:46.916 like Mickey Dora, you never met the guy. 0:06:48.076 --> 0:06:51.836 California Surf Museum president Jim Kempton, I. 0:06:51.796 --> 0:06:55.036 Don't know anybody that really knew Mickey well that would say, 0:06:55.276 --> 0:06:58.476 what a great guy, what a friend, what a pal, 0:06:58.836 --> 0:07:00.476 what a dude that really went out of his way 0:07:00.516 --> 0:07:03.356 for me. There just isn't There isn't one person I 0:07:03.396 --> 0:07:04.956 know who's ever said that. 0:07:07.716 --> 0:07:11.556 Mickey has his place in his He's the man who 0:07:11.636 --> 0:07:12.676 mastered Malibu. 0:07:14.076 --> 0:07:18.356 That is something that you won't get much better than Mickey, 0:07:20.076 --> 0:07:23.916 you know. There aren't many people who rode a surfboard 0:07:23.916 --> 0:07:30.676 and more elegance and more refinery, more style, more arrogance 0:07:31.556 --> 0:07:36.476 than Mickey, you know. And that is, as I say, 0:07:36.476 --> 0:07:39.636 it's that's the work. And you just can't take that. 0:07:39.676 --> 0:07:43.796 No matter what else, that image, that that thing will 0:07:43.876 --> 0:07:46.236 always be iconic. 0:07:47.436 --> 0:07:51.276 For many surfing insiders, Mickey was the definition of the 0:07:51.396 --> 0:07:55.956 true surfer. He claimed to be authentic compared to all 0:07:55.996 --> 0:07:58.796 the phonies and the fakes and the gidget wannabes. 0:08:01.916 --> 0:08:04.156 My whole life is this escape. My whole life is 0:08:04.196 --> 0:08:07.316 this way. If I drop into set, the whole thing up, 0:08:07.436 --> 0:08:09.116 pull up the bottom, true, and pull up into it 0:08:10.236 --> 0:08:13.556 and shoot for my life. I'm going in for me, 0:08:15.036 --> 0:08:17.396 and behind me, all of this shit goes over my back, 0:08:18.676 --> 0:08:21.956 and I'm shooting for my life. 0:08:21.996 --> 0:08:26.796 This is the classic Mickey Dora rebel yell. There's more 0:08:26.836 --> 0:08:30.556 of it. Mickey goes on behind me, all this shit 0:08:30.676 --> 0:08:35.316 goes over my back. The screaming parents, teachers, screaming teachers, 0:08:35.716 --> 0:08:41.556 police priests, politicians, knee boarders, windsurfers, They're all going over 0:08:41.596 --> 0:08:44.916 the falls, head first into the reef, head first into 0:08:44.916 --> 0:08:49.276 the motherfucking reef. And I'm shooting for my life. And 0:08:49.316 --> 0:08:51.996 when it starts to close up, I pull to the bottom, 0:08:52.036 --> 0:08:54.396 out to the back, and I pick up another one 0:08:54.556 --> 0:08:59.316 and do the same goddamn thing. This is why the 0:08:59.356 --> 0:09:04.636 wild kids loved him, this attitude, this rejection of authority. 0:09:06.636 --> 0:09:09.236 But I hear something else in it now, something I 0:09:09.276 --> 0:09:16.156 didn't hear before. Desperation. Not the joy of escape, but 0:09:16.236 --> 0:09:22.116 the stress and the panic of being pursued. From early adulthood, 0:09:22.316 --> 0:09:26.676 Mickey lived a secret life wherever he went North America, 0:09:26.836 --> 0:09:31.756 South America, Asia, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Europe. All he 0:09:31.876 --> 0:09:36.476 wanted was to be free, but he lived in fear 0:09:36.636 --> 0:09:41.556 that someone would sniff out his secrets, betray him, catch him, 0:09:42.636 --> 0:09:43.516 know him. 0:09:46.196 --> 0:09:48.796 He was performative. Mickey was theater. 0:09:49.596 --> 0:09:52.716 This is David Renson again. He's the author of the 0:09:52.756 --> 0:09:56.756 Mickey Dora Oral History All for a few perfect Waves. 0:09:57.396 --> 0:10:01.436 He spent years trying to root out Mickey's secrets, whatever 0:10:01.476 --> 0:10:04.436 they might be. David and I have been talking about 0:10:04.476 --> 0:10:09.596 Mickey's dark side, the swastikas, the Nazi posturing. He wants 0:10:09.636 --> 0:10:10.756 to give me some context. 0:10:11.836 --> 0:10:16.956 Mickey came from an era of guys who liked to 0:10:17.036 --> 0:10:20.836 rat fuck each other, who wanted to be in the 0:10:20.876 --> 0:10:25.756 face of conformity in society, like Marlon Brando on a 0:10:25.796 --> 0:10:30.676 motorcycle or James Dean at the Griffith Park Observatory, that 0:10:30.716 --> 0:10:34.876 whole thing. And I just think that in the forties 0:10:34.916 --> 0:10:39.436 and the early fifties, what would be something he could 0:10:39.436 --> 0:10:41.716 throw in society's face. I think he put a swastik 0:10:41.796 --> 0:10:45.076 on a board, and I believe Mickey also had a 0:10:45.116 --> 0:10:52.316 SS leather coat. He wasn't a Nazi had never, never, 0:10:52.356 --> 0:10:55.796 to my knowledge, did he say those kinds of things. 0:10:56.636 --> 0:11:00.756 He was a loner. He just wasn't, you know, an 0:11:00.796 --> 0:11:04.836 anti Semite, although he could perform it. But then the 0:11:04.916 --> 0:11:08.956 question is if you perform it, then maybe you are reading. 0:11:09.196 --> 0:11:11.836 With the letters Mickey sent Linda, I saw a number 0:11:11.836 --> 0:11:16.076 of references to David Renson, the person Mickey feared was 0:11:16.116 --> 0:11:19.476 going to expose him in the pages of California Magazine 0:11:19.596 --> 0:11:23.476 back in the early eighties. When I was with Linda, 0:11:23.636 --> 0:11:26.596 she brought out this binder of letters that Mickey had 0:11:26.636 --> 0:11:31.756 sent her and I took pictures of a bunch of them, 0:11:32.436 --> 0:11:37.076 and it was okay with her. And in reading through them, 0:11:37.156 --> 0:11:39.716 I have to tell you, I came across some references 0:11:39.756 --> 0:11:45.476 that I found really toxic that he made, and I 0:11:45.516 --> 0:11:47.556 think they were about you, but I'm not sure. 0:11:49.636 --> 0:11:50.996 Well this is the one where you call me a 0:11:51.036 --> 0:11:53.676 third rate carpetbagger, or well I. 0:11:53.596 --> 0:11:57.436 Can show you he doesn't say your name, so I don't. 0:11:58.036 --> 0:12:00.876 Yeah, I'd like to know for sure. Yeah, I may 0:12:00.916 --> 0:12:08.356 have shaded a paragraph there. Fat You from New York 0:12:08.396 --> 0:12:12.036 has spent six months researching My life, huge anticipated article 0:12:12.076 --> 0:12:14.796 to be published in July for okay, has been bugging 0:12:14.876 --> 0:12:19.156 my asshole father and other assholes. This guy's going frantic 0:12:19.156 --> 0:12:22.516 to locate my whereabouts. So far I'm safe. Snooper's talking 0:12:22.556 --> 0:12:26.196 everyone I hate, including guests who none o the Pirate 0:12:26.236 --> 0:12:37.636 captain m Yeah, okay, well it's toxic, but so fucking. 0:12:37.436 --> 0:12:44.596 What it gets uglier. Mickey wrote to Linda, quote, we 0:12:44.716 --> 0:12:48.156 both knew that some hook knows MF would sniff out 0:12:48.156 --> 0:12:51.436 a story one day. He also wrote that the Pirate 0:12:51.476 --> 0:12:56.036 captain Don Wilson, Linda's X, who talked to Rensen quote 0:12:56.556 --> 0:13:01.356 kissed the feet of this Jew bastard. And then, when 0:13:01.396 --> 0:13:05.076 the article was optioned by the producer David Geffen, Mickey 0:13:05.116 --> 0:13:10.396 wrote quote, I've found out some beady eyed, copulating Jew 0:13:10.556 --> 0:13:13.756 faggot has bought my life story from the other Jew 0:13:14.076 --> 0:13:17.436 and are making my life into a film starring another 0:13:17.636 --> 0:13:23.036 well favored, bright eyed Jew. If they want information, talk 0:13:23.116 --> 0:13:30.996 to the rats. This is clearly not punk, not a pose, 0:13:31.716 --> 0:13:38.516 not a middle finger to society. This is raw bigotry. 0:13:39.516 --> 0:13:42.716 As David absorbs the letters, I feel him processing this 0:13:42.836 --> 0:13:48.956 question of whether Mickey is performing anti Semitism or expressing it. 0:13:49.996 --> 0:13:52.676 People ask me how I can celebrate Mickey Dora. You know, 0:13:53.236 --> 0:13:57.516 but I don't think I'm celebrating him. I mean unless 0:13:57.556 --> 0:14:01.276 the act of writing about somebody is celebration. I mean, 0:14:01.356 --> 0:14:03.796 he's a too bit hustler to some people, and he's 0:14:04.516 --> 0:14:08.476 God on a surfboard to other people. I just thought 0:14:08.476 --> 0:14:13.996 it was an interesting story to tell. I agree with you. Yeah, well, 0:14:14.036 --> 0:14:18.396 I'm glad you show me those letters, because Micky was 0:14:18.396 --> 0:14:20.516 a nasty piece of work at times. 0:14:21.316 --> 0:14:24.836 It's subtle, but it literally feels like a change has 0:14:24.876 --> 0:14:28.956 come over David, like he's revising his opinion in real 0:14:29.036 --> 0:14:34.836 time in front of me, and there's this other feeling disappointment. 0:14:35.996 --> 0:14:40.596 Micky didn't even say his name. He reduced him to 0:14:40.716 --> 0:14:41.236 a slur. 0:14:42.996 --> 0:14:48.996 I really, I've lost weight, Mickey. He just can't take 0:14:49.036 --> 0:14:52.956 this up personally. I mean, it sucks, but I mean 0:14:52.956 --> 0:14:56.316 it just shows, you know, he he was anti Semitic 0:14:56.356 --> 0:15:00.956 when it suited him, so I you know, and I 0:15:01.116 --> 0:15:02.076 wouldn't be his friend. 0:15:03.596 --> 0:15:07.796 David's thinking, still trying to make sense of his subject. 0:15:08.316 --> 0:15:10.596 Twenty plus years after his death. 0:15:12.236 --> 0:15:14.996 Somebody said to me that they listened to Mickey and 0:15:15.036 --> 0:15:17.636 what he said sounded great, made no sense at all. 0:15:18.636 --> 0:15:23.036 And you know, when you're somebody hero, you're more willing 0:15:23.036 --> 0:15:23.836 to give them a break. 0:15:39.436 --> 0:15:43.156 Mickey and Linda's romance played out across a dozen countries 0:15:43.276 --> 0:15:47.236 in hotel rooms and hideouts and campgrounds. They were chasing 0:15:47.236 --> 0:15:50.556 the surf, living by their wits and getting away with it, 0:15:51.276 --> 0:15:54.116 stealing from the market for breakfast and dining with the 0:15:54.196 --> 0:15:59.596 Rothschilds for lunch. They did exactly as they pleased. Mickey 0:15:59.636 --> 0:16:04.756 thought this made them free, but Linda found out nothing 0:16:05.156 --> 0:16:10.236 is for free. Is there anything that you sort of 0:16:10.636 --> 0:16:13.916 took away from your relationship with Mickey when you reflect 0:16:13.996 --> 0:16:14.396 back on. 0:16:14.396 --> 0:16:19.236 It, Yeah, I'd say it. I used to be very, 0:16:19.356 --> 0:16:25.196 very trusting, and I think now I really look at 0:16:25.236 --> 0:16:29.956 stuff twice or three times or four times, you know, 0:16:30.116 --> 0:16:37.876 to be sure. Yeah, it's a hard one to really 0:16:39.716 --> 0:16:42.956 go deep into that. It's like the love thing, you know, 0:16:44.076 --> 0:16:44.836 like what is it? 0:16:48.036 --> 0:16:50.756 Linda says there was a moment in nineteen seventy six 0:16:50.956 --> 0:16:54.556 when she saw Micky clearly and could never unsee him. 0:16:55.476 --> 0:16:58.236 They were on the run from the FBI and Linda 0:16:58.356 --> 0:16:59.516 needed Mickey's help. 0:17:00.956 --> 0:17:04.076 I get we were coming back from I think it 0:17:04.116 --> 0:17:08.716 was Kenya, and we flew into we were in Europe, 0:17:09.436 --> 0:17:12.956 and I was sick well. I couldn't hold anything down. 0:17:14.196 --> 0:17:16.916 This was when they stopped in Germany and Mickey bought 0:17:16.956 --> 0:17:19.956 his dark green Mercedes camera van. They were on their 0:17:19.996 --> 0:17:21.956 way to France to disappear. 0:17:23.196 --> 0:17:27.156 I was losing weight. I couldn't eat, it was throwing 0:17:27.276 --> 0:17:34.916 up every morning. And Mickey was not very sympathetic. It 0:17:34.956 --> 0:17:39.556 was like, you deal with your problem. He kept giving 0:17:39.556 --> 0:17:44.156 me this German Undenberg, which you take. It's if you've 0:17:44.196 --> 0:17:47.156 had a hangover and you've sick to your stomach, you 0:17:47.316 --> 0:17:50.236 down this stuff. It was horrible. He gave me a 0:17:50.236 --> 0:17:53.356 couple of those, and I was sicker and I said, 0:17:53.356 --> 0:17:59.756 this is not a hangover. I said, I'm pregnant because 0:17:59.796 --> 0:18:02.796 I was missing periods and you know, I knew the symptoms. 0:18:02.836 --> 0:18:04.916 You know, I was having morning sickness, and I said, 0:18:04.916 --> 0:18:13.156 this is pregnancy. You know. Mickey wasn't happy. Why his 0:18:13.196 --> 0:18:16.036 Mickey's thing was always his little comment was you'll ruin 0:18:16.036 --> 0:18:20.116 the trip if I didn't do something, You're going to 0:18:20.236 --> 0:18:21.076 ruin the trip. 0:18:21.276 --> 0:18:25.916 By being pregnant. Yeah, she was pregnant on the run 0:18:26.156 --> 0:18:28.876 and living in a camera van, and add to that, 0:18:29.196 --> 0:18:33.596 her passport had been stolen and Mickey wasn't there for her. 0:18:34.756 --> 0:18:39.476 I was scared. I was scared, you know, because when 0:18:39.476 --> 0:18:41.356 that happens like that, you're on your own. 0:18:41.396 --> 0:18:41.596 Man. 0:18:42.956 --> 0:18:45.836 You know, you're not married, you're not in a house, 0:18:46.516 --> 0:18:49.836 you're on the road. You don't even have right id 0:18:50.796 --> 0:19:00.556 you were, you know, money. It's not an environment where 0:19:00.596 --> 0:19:06.036 you want to have a child. Come period. This was real, 0:19:06.436 --> 0:19:09.836 real scary. 0:19:09.876 --> 0:19:11.956 And you couldn't raise a kid with Mickey if Mickey 0:19:11.956 --> 0:19:16.236 didn't want to raise a kid. No, Linda won't say 0:19:16.436 --> 0:19:19.716 exactly what happened with the baby, but she does tell 0:19:19.756 --> 0:19:24.076 me why Mickey didn't want a child. Clearly, a baby 0:19:24.116 --> 0:19:29.076 would have complicated their international surf bandit plans, but Mickey's 0:19:29.116 --> 0:19:32.556 reluctance to become a father came from a deeper, more 0:19:32.636 --> 0:19:33.596 tortured place. 0:19:34.876 --> 0:19:44.796 Mickey was worried about a child, especially a girl, that 0:19:45.116 --> 0:19:48.276 she would be abused in the future by people trying 0:19:48.276 --> 0:19:53.836 to get back at him. And he even said, you know, 0:19:54.516 --> 0:19:56.516 he said, a boy, he said, I don't care, you know, 0:19:56.596 --> 0:19:59.956 let him get his ass kicked. You know, if a 0:20:00.076 --> 0:20:03.356 son would be like, okay, your turn now to figure 0:20:03.356 --> 0:20:08.316 it out. A daughter, he was like, very very worried. 0:20:09.156 --> 0:20:12.356 He said, some asshole is going to come along and 0:20:12.996 --> 0:20:16.356 fuck her and get her pregnant just to get back 0:20:16.396 --> 0:20:16.596 at me. 0:20:18.076 --> 0:20:24.716 This makes Mickey seem truly sick, unless it was just 0:20:24.756 --> 0:20:29.316 his excuse. Linda broke up with Mickey for good in 0:20:29.436 --> 0:20:33.876 nineteen eighty, not long before Mickey was arrested. Linda went 0:20:33.916 --> 0:20:36.876 to Ireland and spent years living in a rusted out 0:20:36.996 --> 0:20:41.356 VW on a desolate beach, purging Mickey from her system. 0:20:41.836 --> 0:20:45.516 He visited her sometimes, but Ireland was too cold for him. 0:20:46.236 --> 0:20:49.036 He begged her to join him in South Africa. 0:20:49.836 --> 0:20:55.836 Found the perfect right point Jeffrey's Bay Come Good movement. 0:20:55.876 --> 0:21:01.996 I was stuck. Love was gone. That wasn't love, but 0:21:02.116 --> 0:21:05.796 you know there was something fascination, Yeah, the fascination there, 0:21:05.796 --> 0:21:08.836 it is. The fascination was gone. 0:21:09.236 --> 0:21:13.076 Mickey wanted to rekindle what they had, but Linda had 0:21:13.116 --> 0:21:15.196 reached her limit long ago. 0:21:16.516 --> 0:21:23.556 I think I saw too much, you know, I was 0:21:24.076 --> 0:21:26.556 experiencing too much and I was done. You know, I 0:21:26.596 --> 0:21:30.156 wanted to just be calm. And it wasn't going to 0:21:30.196 --> 0:21:32.036 be New Zealand, and it wasn't going to be France, 0:21:32.196 --> 0:21:35.276 and it wasn't going to be Jeffrey's Bay. 0:21:35.476 --> 0:21:39.116 Mickey put her through a lot. As exhilarating as their 0:21:39.156 --> 0:21:45.396 shared adventure was, it was exhausting. He was exhausting. For 0:21:45.436 --> 0:21:49.516 a long time, she'd believed they were pursuing freedom together. 0:21:50.556 --> 0:21:59.116 Then she realized he was only for himself. I'm gonna 0:21:59.196 --> 0:22:02.436 ask you to read this little passage at the end 0:22:02.476 --> 0:22:07.596 of your book and then sort of, you know, people 0:22:07.596 --> 0:22:11.396 can do what they want with it. I passed Linda 0:22:11.476 --> 0:22:14.516 a copy of her book, The Surf Sting. It's an 0:22:14.556 --> 0:22:17.756 account of her adventures with Mickey, Dora and Don Wilson, 0:22:17.996 --> 0:22:21.476 the pirate Captain. I circled it right there. 0:22:22.836 --> 0:22:26.996 She need reading? Is there the blue? 0:22:27.716 --> 0:22:29.876 This is a passage that comes right at the end. 0:22:30.476 --> 0:22:32.676 It's set apart from the rest of the text in 0:22:32.756 --> 0:22:33.876 a larger typeface. 0:22:35.236 --> 0:22:40.276 Mikola. She's beautiful, dark brown, curly hair, big brown eyes, 0:22:40.356 --> 0:22:45.156 almost gipsy looking, maybe a bit Italian. She's a young 0:22:45.196 --> 0:22:49.196 woman now speaks three languages, raised by a wealthy and 0:22:49.316 --> 0:22:54.356 prominent wine connoisseur. Does she serf? Maybe she definitely skis 0:22:54.716 --> 0:22:55.516 any pictures? 0:22:55.676 --> 0:22:56.036 What for? 0:22:56.716 --> 0:23:00.636 You might get lucky and meet her sometime? Any more questions? 0:23:00.876 --> 0:23:04.556 Nobody bothered to ask Mickey. I didn't have to I 0:23:04.636 --> 0:23:15.196 was there. It is what it is bittersweet. 0:23:16.676 --> 0:23:21.156 It's bittersweet because the life she's just described. Mikola's life 0:23:21.516 --> 0:23:26.956 sounds wonderful in many ways, wherever she is, whoever she is. 0:23:28.276 --> 0:23:31.436 But I can't help thinking of all that Linda lost, 0:23:32.396 --> 0:23:37.356 sacrificed for Mickey's fear and selfishness that could make a 0:23:37.396 --> 0:23:39.516 person fall right out of love. 0:23:40.716 --> 0:23:44.916 It wasn't about love. I don't think it ever was. 0:23:46.876 --> 0:23:50.596 Because love, what is love? I mean, what's the definition 0:23:50.676 --> 0:23:54.076 of love? You have to I mean, love can be 0:23:54.116 --> 0:23:57.716 different for everybody. I don't think it's something you can 0:23:57.796 --> 0:24:01.756 really say this is how it works, you know, because 0:24:01.796 --> 0:24:05.236 I love my husband. My husband is just the pickle, 0:24:07.956 --> 0:24:10.556 and I would have never had that with Mickey or 0:24:10.636 --> 0:24:13.076 don Period. I know that for sure. 0:24:14.996 --> 0:24:19.116 Did you have other kids in your life? 0:24:19.396 --> 0:24:25.196 No, but my husband has two boys. They're both very, 0:24:25.396 --> 0:24:28.556 very good, good kids. He raised them well. And it's 0:24:28.556 --> 0:24:30.916 funny because I think about if I had a kid 0:24:30.996 --> 0:24:36.236 with him, it would have been wonderful, you know, but 0:24:38.436 --> 0:24:42.916 life can bite you sometimes big time. It's funny too 0:24:42.956 --> 0:24:48.036 because my mom, when I told her, you know, she 0:24:48.196 --> 0:24:48.956 was so mad at me. 0:24:50.836 --> 0:24:51.316 She said I. 0:24:51.316 --> 0:24:55.596 Would have raised her. I would have raised my grandchild. 0:24:56.276 --> 0:25:00.196 And I said, Mom, it wasn't like that. I said, 0:25:00.196 --> 0:25:04.516 you couldn't just have her here because somebody would know 0:25:05.596 --> 0:25:09.036 who she was, you know, I said, it wouldn't. 0:25:12.596 --> 0:25:18.316 This is Linda's regret that she believed Mickey bought in 0:25:18.716 --> 0:25:22.316 for a time to his dark view of the world. 0:25:23.276 --> 0:25:28.076 Back then she couldn't see beyond it, and now she 0:25:28.276 --> 0:25:29.276 has no daughter. 0:25:30.556 --> 0:25:31.556 But it's okay. 0:25:32.916 --> 0:25:36.116 It's all hard. Everything was fun and breezy and nice, 0:25:36.236 --> 0:25:38.876 and then that was the hard part. So you get 0:25:38.876 --> 0:25:45.076 slapped in the end. You know, in some way you'll pay. 0:25:45.956 --> 0:25:52.756 I paid the price. Not nice. 0:25:52.836 --> 0:25:55.716 The promise of the Mickey and Linda adventure had been 0:25:55.796 --> 0:25:59.036 that it would all be free. They would travel and 0:25:59.156 --> 0:26:02.396 surf and not have to work. The lifestyle would be 0:26:02.436 --> 0:26:07.356 free and they would be free. But it didn't really 0:26:07.436 --> 0:26:11.596 turn out that way. So I was going to ask you, 0:26:11.676 --> 0:26:14.356 but I think you may have just answered this. What 0:26:14.676 --> 0:26:16.516 these adventures cost you. 0:26:20.036 --> 0:26:28.116 I got from your daughter, Yeah, which would have been 0:26:28.516 --> 0:26:35.996 very amazing, you know, to have brought her here. But 0:26:36.036 --> 0:26:41.036 it's okay. She's fretet and easy. 0:26:42.156 --> 0:26:46.316 Mickey paid to he went to prison, but he never 0:26:46.516 --> 0:26:49.876 grew up the way Linda did. He never had to. 0:26:50.956 --> 0:26:53.316 He continued to write her letters from the ends of 0:26:53.356 --> 0:26:57.316 the earth. Wherever he was. He referred to it as 0:26:58.196 --> 0:27:24.036 never never Land. Mickey will always represent the worst impulses 0:27:24.036 --> 0:27:29.516 of surf culture, the pull toward exclusion and xenophobia, But 0:27:29.636 --> 0:27:34.756 the surf media that fanned Mickey's legend has never forsaken him. 0:27:35.396 --> 0:27:38.996 How hard is it to just say, Gee, this guy 0:27:39.036 --> 0:27:41.436 who died a long time ago, who was just a 0:27:41.436 --> 0:27:43.636 good surfer in the fifties. That's all he was, was 0:27:43.636 --> 0:27:46.916 a handsome guy who was a good surfer, said some 0:27:46.956 --> 0:27:50.636 really nasty, gross things that suggest really dark hatreds in 0:27:50.676 --> 0:27:56.356 his heart. Writer and surfer Dan Dwayne again, that question, 0:27:56.716 --> 0:28:01.036 to myself is right, what is the big deal? Why 0:28:01.076 --> 0:28:02.956 is it so hard to say that was kind of gross? 0:28:02.996 --> 0:28:06.796 Maybe we shouldn't worship that guy anymore. Why can't we 0:28:06.876 --> 0:28:09.956 just say it's painful? Why can can't we just say 0:28:10.036 --> 0:28:13.676 it's hateful? This is not a big lift, This is 0:28:13.796 --> 0:28:16.956 not a high bar. You know, you don't have to 0:28:16.956 --> 0:28:19.556 be a conspiracy theorist to connect the dots around this. 0:28:20.996 --> 0:28:24.236 Surfing now is so much bigger than when Mickey was 0:28:24.236 --> 0:28:28.116 in his prime, and that Dan says is a good thing. 0:28:29.436 --> 0:28:34.636 This is a global culture, and more and more it's 0:28:34.676 --> 0:28:38.996 in everybody culture in a kind of a beautiful way, 0:28:39.156 --> 0:28:40.836 Like that's better that way for it to be in 0:28:40.916 --> 0:28:43.996 everybody culture. I'm glad it's in everybody culture. I don't 0:28:44.036 --> 0:28:46.316 want to go back to when it's not in everybody culture. 0:28:46.596 --> 0:28:47.996 I didn't like it more that way. 0:28:49.116 --> 0:28:52.276 And when I think of an everybody culture, I know 0:28:52.396 --> 0:28:55.716 that doesn't come from Mickey. It comes from a spunky 0:28:55.796 --> 0:28:58.556 fifteen year old who didn't let a few pineapples in 0:28:58.596 --> 0:29:01.076 the face get between her and the waves. 0:29:03.036 --> 0:29:04.236 Oh no, back again. 0:29:04.596 --> 0:29:07.196 Any objections you want me to reel off the whole 0:29:07.196 --> 0:29:08.916 list that I like to start? 0:29:09.316 --> 0:29:14.556 How does on Mickey blamed Gidget for ruining Malibu? But 0:29:14.636 --> 0:29:19.076 I have to disagree. I think Mickey ruined Malibu by 0:29:19.116 --> 0:29:21.596