1 00:00:15,036 --> 00:00:25,036 Speaker 1: Pushkin. For most of Mickey's adult life, he was on 2 00:00:25,076 --> 00:00:30,516 Speaker 1: the run, hiding, changing identities, trying to stay one step 3 00:00:30,556 --> 00:00:35,716 Speaker 1: ahead of everyone. He called himself a gypsy. He called 4 00:00:35,756 --> 00:00:40,676 Speaker 1: himself a wandering rabbi. He saw himself as cast out 5 00:00:40,716 --> 00:00:45,956 Speaker 1: of Golden Malibu as it changed before his eyes. Linda 6 00:00:46,036 --> 00:00:48,636 Speaker 1: Kai was with Mickey on and off for the better 7 00:00:48,636 --> 00:00:52,436 Speaker 1: part of a decade. She was his longest term romantic partner, 8 00:00:52,876 --> 00:00:56,596 Speaker 1: his confidante, and his partner in crime. And when they 9 00:00:56,596 --> 00:00:58,916 Speaker 1: weren't together, he wrote to her. 10 00:00:59,756 --> 00:01:06,516 Speaker 2: And there's some There are sixty four letters from all 11 00:01:06,556 --> 00:01:11,156 Speaker 2: over the world with addresses in sta amps and this 12 00:01:11,396 --> 00:01:15,916 Speaker 2: was all with Mickey. And see his artwork. Yeah, this 13 00:01:16,036 --> 00:01:21,356 Speaker 2: is a lot of us must there's a lot of 14 00:01:21,436 --> 00:01:23,996 Speaker 2: lure in here, would you say? The love letters. 15 00:01:24,956 --> 00:01:27,116 Speaker 1: Linda and I are sitting at the breakfast table of 16 00:01:27,156 --> 00:01:31,156 Speaker 1: her mobile home in Ventura. Light streams in through the windows. 17 00:01:32,036 --> 00:01:34,916 Speaker 1: On the table between us is the black binder where 18 00:01:34,956 --> 00:01:38,916 Speaker 1: she keeps the letters from Mickey. Flipping through the binder, 19 00:01:39,076 --> 00:01:44,156 Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed by the explosion of strange drawings of cats 20 00:01:44,196 --> 00:01:47,196 Speaker 1: and witches and cataclysmic world events. 21 00:01:47,996 --> 00:01:49,276 Speaker 2: Also jokes. 22 00:01:50,156 --> 00:01:52,876 Speaker 1: There's a clipping from a newspaper of a man surrounded 23 00:01:52,876 --> 00:01:58,556 Speaker 1: by credit card applications. Quote mister plastic fantastic collector has 24 00:01:58,636 --> 00:02:01,316 Speaker 1: seven hundred and eighty eight credit cards, can't stop applying, 25 00:02:01,916 --> 00:02:04,236 Speaker 1: and what appears to be a photo of Mickey Dora 26 00:02:04,436 --> 00:02:10,396 Speaker 1: pasted onto his head. There are formulas, equations and references 27 00:02:10,436 --> 00:02:15,516 Speaker 1: to the episodic wave. There's some mathematical formulas. 28 00:02:15,596 --> 00:02:18,956 Speaker 2: Yes, everything is a secret, and you know, well, it's 29 00:02:19,036 --> 00:02:21,156 Speaker 2: like I was. I was scared to death when I 30 00:02:21,156 --> 00:02:24,316 Speaker 2: would get one and I had to let it sit 31 00:02:24,396 --> 00:02:28,836 Speaker 2: for a while. Wow, this is yeah. I had to 32 00:02:28,916 --> 00:02:30,756 Speaker 2: let them sit for a couple of weeks before I 33 00:02:30,796 --> 00:02:33,996 Speaker 2: actually would open them to get I'm head right, you know, 34 00:02:34,116 --> 00:02:35,676 Speaker 2: to be sure. I was ready to read this some 35 00:02:35,756 --> 00:02:39,236 Speaker 2: of this stuff because a lot of it's super paranoia 36 00:02:40,556 --> 00:02:43,716 Speaker 2: about the world and collapse from the Russians. And you know, 37 00:02:43,756 --> 00:02:44,036 Speaker 2: he was. 38 00:02:44,076 --> 00:02:48,916 Speaker 1: Way In the letters, Mickey makes liberal use of the 39 00:02:49,036 --> 00:02:54,276 Speaker 1: N word. He also indulges in blatant Internet style anti 40 00:02:54,356 --> 00:02:59,716 Speaker 1: Semitic conspiracy theories. Quote the Jews Zionists are the richest 41 00:02:59,716 --> 00:03:02,596 Speaker 1: people in the world and control much of its destiny. 42 00:03:03,436 --> 00:03:08,636 Speaker 1: Jews like Lord Rothschild every day in ironclad secrecy decide 43 00:03:08,716 --> 00:03:11,516 Speaker 1: and flat around the world how high the price of 44 00:03:11,516 --> 00:03:16,716 Speaker 1: gold should be on a particular day. That would be 45 00:03:16,956 --> 00:03:22,116 Speaker 1: Philip de Rothschild, his father's employer, the same person Mickey 46 00:03:22,156 --> 00:03:25,476 Speaker 1: would steal stationary from whenever he had the chance. 47 00:03:26,556 --> 00:03:30,196 Speaker 2: The conspiracies rent rampant in his head. No, he never 48 00:03:30,316 --> 00:03:34,236 Speaker 2: was like talking about aliens. It was always the nuclear bomb. 49 00:03:34,476 --> 00:03:36,396 Speaker 2: This was all about New Zealand. You know, let's go 50 00:03:36,436 --> 00:03:39,076 Speaker 2: to New Zealand where it's safe. He didn't want to 51 00:03:39,076 --> 00:03:41,156 Speaker 2: be in the northern hemisphere. He said, Oh, it's going 52 00:03:41,196 --> 00:03:44,396 Speaker 2: to be radiation, it's going to be trouble, everything's going 53 00:03:44,436 --> 00:03:47,356 Speaker 2: to blow up. A lot of the letters contain all this, 54 00:03:48,116 --> 00:03:50,316 Speaker 2: and sometimes I couldn't read them. I was like, this 55 00:03:50,396 --> 00:03:50,836 Speaker 2: is awful. 56 00:03:50,916 --> 00:03:51,116 Speaker 3: You know. 57 00:03:52,396 --> 00:03:55,716 Speaker 1: It says here in this letter. Can you smell it? 58 00:03:55,716 --> 00:04:00,556 Speaker 1: It's the asshole conspiracy. The spread of assholeism during the 59 00:04:00,636 --> 00:04:05,276 Speaker 1: last century has been orchestrated on the part of a 60 00:04:05,476 --> 00:04:10,636 Speaker 1: secret international conspiracy. Experts have believed that the problems of 61 00:04:10,676 --> 00:04:14,476 Speaker 1: society could be blamed on poverty, ignorance, exploitation, racism, sexism, 62 00:04:14,956 --> 00:04:18,316 Speaker 1: or the devil, but they were wrong. These problems were 63 00:04:18,356 --> 00:04:23,556 Speaker 1: created by well placed assholes in the media, government, education, 64 00:04:23,796 --> 00:04:28,156 Speaker 1: and religion who kept society stirred up and confused with 65 00:04:28,276 --> 00:04:35,116 Speaker 1: their little brown tricks, a worldwide revolution, a social enema 66 00:04:35,236 --> 00:04:41,036 Speaker 1: to purge assholes and assholeism forever all my best m 67 00:04:41,076 --> 00:04:46,956 Speaker 1: and s. Boy, did you start to think at some 68 00:04:47,076 --> 00:04:52,436 Speaker 1: point that he was really losing it? Like it got worse, 69 00:04:52,596 --> 00:04:56,396 Speaker 1: the sort of paranoia and the conspiracy thinking and the 70 00:04:56,476 --> 00:04:58,156 Speaker 1: sort of darkness of his vision. 71 00:04:58,356 --> 00:05:04,916 Speaker 2: Yes. When I started reading and educating myself, I was thinking, 72 00:05:05,196 --> 00:05:08,956 Speaker 2: this is you know, where is Russia getting us in? 73 00:05:09,716 --> 00:05:12,276 Speaker 2: Why are we having a thing with Russia? There's nothing 74 00:05:12,316 --> 00:05:17,476 Speaker 2: going on, you know, Mickey saw something bad in situations, 75 00:05:17,556 --> 00:05:22,756 Speaker 2: probably a lot of them in I was interested in 76 00:05:22,796 --> 00:05:25,556 Speaker 2: the surfing bar, not all this conspiracy stuff. 77 00:05:25,676 --> 00:05:25,916 Speaker 4: You know. 78 00:05:27,476 --> 00:05:31,436 Speaker 1: At a certain point, the darkness it threatened to engulf her, 79 00:05:31,836 --> 00:05:37,276 Speaker 1: and she fled. But Mickey's fear, whatever he was running from, 80 00:05:37,796 --> 00:05:42,956 Speaker 1: it affected Linda's whole life, and not only Linda's. The 81 00:05:43,076 --> 00:05:48,516 Speaker 1: dark Prince cast a shadow over Malibu and surfing, and 82 00:05:48,556 --> 00:05:51,596 Speaker 1: it was the people around him that paid the price. 83 00:05:55,796 --> 00:06:26,236 Speaker 1: I'm Dana Goodyear and this is Lost Hills, episode twelve, 84 00:06:27,156 --> 00:06:34,356 Speaker 1: A nasty piece of work. Mickey's whole life was a 85 00:06:34,436 --> 00:06:36,636 Speaker 1: giant fu to society. 86 00:06:37,516 --> 00:06:39,076 Speaker 5: I used to say to people when they would give 87 00:06:39,116 --> 00:06:41,916 Speaker 5: me the oh, by god, Mickey Dora, unbelievable euch a, 88 00:06:42,076 --> 00:06:44,676 Speaker 5: you know, and I would just say, if you really 89 00:06:44,716 --> 00:06:46,916 Speaker 5: like Mickey Dora, you never met the guy. 90 00:06:48,076 --> 00:06:51,836 Speaker 1: California Surf Museum president Jim Kempton, I. 91 00:06:51,796 --> 00:06:55,036 Speaker 5: Don't know anybody that really knew Mickey well that would say, 92 00:06:55,276 --> 00:06:58,476 Speaker 5: what a great guy, what a friend, what a pal, 93 00:06:58,836 --> 00:07:00,476 Speaker 5: what a dude that really went out of his way 94 00:07:00,516 --> 00:07:03,356 Speaker 5: for me. There just isn't There isn't one person I 95 00:07:03,396 --> 00:07:04,956 Speaker 5: know who's ever said that. 96 00:07:07,716 --> 00:07:11,556 Speaker 1: Mickey has his place in his He's the man who 97 00:07:11,636 --> 00:07:12,676 Speaker 1: mastered Malibu. 98 00:07:14,076 --> 00:07:18,356 Speaker 5: That is something that you won't get much better than Mickey, 99 00:07:20,076 --> 00:07:23,916 Speaker 5: you know. There aren't many people who rode a surfboard 100 00:07:23,916 --> 00:07:30,676 Speaker 5: and more elegance and more refinery, more style, more arrogance 101 00:07:31,556 --> 00:07:36,476 Speaker 5: than Mickey, you know. And that is, as I say, 102 00:07:36,476 --> 00:07:39,636 Speaker 5: it's that's the work. And you just can't take that. 103 00:07:39,676 --> 00:07:43,796 Speaker 5: No matter what else, that image, that that thing will 104 00:07:43,876 --> 00:07:46,236 Speaker 5: always be iconic. 105 00:07:47,436 --> 00:07:51,276 Speaker 1: For many surfing insiders, Mickey was the definition of the 106 00:07:51,396 --> 00:07:55,956 Speaker 1: true surfer. He claimed to be authentic compared to all 107 00:07:55,996 --> 00:07:58,796 Speaker 1: the phonies and the fakes and the gidget wannabes. 108 00:08:01,916 --> 00:08:04,156 Speaker 6: My whole life is this escape. My whole life is 109 00:08:04,196 --> 00:08:07,316 Speaker 6: this way. If I drop into set, the whole thing up, 110 00:08:07,436 --> 00:08:09,116 Speaker 6: pull up the bottom, true, and pull up into it 111 00:08:10,236 --> 00:08:13,556 Speaker 6: and shoot for my life. I'm going in for me, 112 00:08:15,036 --> 00:08:17,396 Speaker 6: and behind me, all of this shit goes over my back, 113 00:08:18,676 --> 00:08:21,956 Speaker 6: and I'm shooting for my life. 114 00:08:21,996 --> 00:08:26,796 Speaker 1: This is the classic Mickey Dora rebel yell. There's more 115 00:08:26,836 --> 00:08:30,556 Speaker 1: of it. Mickey goes on behind me, all this shit 116 00:08:30,676 --> 00:08:35,316 Speaker 1: goes over my back. The screaming parents, teachers, screaming teachers, 117 00:08:35,716 --> 00:08:41,556 Speaker 1: police priests, politicians, knee boarders, windsurfers, They're all going over 118 00:08:41,596 --> 00:08:44,916 Speaker 1: the falls, head first into the reef, head first into 119 00:08:44,916 --> 00:08:49,276 Speaker 1: the motherfucking reef. And I'm shooting for my life. And 120 00:08:49,316 --> 00:08:51,996 Speaker 1: when it starts to close up, I pull to the bottom, 121 00:08:52,036 --> 00:08:54,396 Speaker 1: out to the back, and I pick up another one 122 00:08:54,556 --> 00:08:59,316 Speaker 1: and do the same goddamn thing. This is why the 123 00:08:59,356 --> 00:09:04,636 Speaker 1: wild kids loved him, this attitude, this rejection of authority. 124 00:09:06,636 --> 00:09:09,236 Speaker 1: But I hear something else in it now, something I 125 00:09:09,276 --> 00:09:16,156 Speaker 1: didn't hear before. Desperation. Not the joy of escape, but 126 00:09:16,236 --> 00:09:22,116 Speaker 1: the stress and the panic of being pursued. From early adulthood, 127 00:09:22,316 --> 00:09:26,676 Speaker 1: Mickey lived a secret life wherever he went North America, 128 00:09:26,836 --> 00:09:31,756 Speaker 1: South America, Asia, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Europe. All he 129 00:09:31,876 --> 00:09:36,476 Speaker 1: wanted was to be free, but he lived in fear 130 00:09:36,636 --> 00:09:41,556 Speaker 1: that someone would sniff out his secrets, betray him, catch him, 131 00:09:42,636 --> 00:09:43,516 Speaker 1: know him. 132 00:09:46,196 --> 00:09:48,796 Speaker 7: He was performative. Mickey was theater. 133 00:09:49,596 --> 00:09:52,716 Speaker 1: This is David Renson again. He's the author of the 134 00:09:52,756 --> 00:09:56,756 Speaker 1: Mickey Dora Oral History All for a few perfect Waves. 135 00:09:57,396 --> 00:10:01,436 Speaker 1: He spent years trying to root out Mickey's secrets, whatever 136 00:10:01,476 --> 00:10:04,436 Speaker 1: they might be. David and I have been talking about 137 00:10:04,476 --> 00:10:09,596 Speaker 1: Mickey's dark side, the swastikas, the Nazi posturing. He wants 138 00:10:09,636 --> 00:10:10,756 Speaker 1: to give me some context. 139 00:10:11,836 --> 00:10:16,956 Speaker 7: Mickey came from an era of guys who liked to 140 00:10:17,036 --> 00:10:20,836 Speaker 7: rat fuck each other, who wanted to be in the 141 00:10:20,876 --> 00:10:25,756 Speaker 7: face of conformity in society, like Marlon Brando on a 142 00:10:25,796 --> 00:10:30,676 Speaker 7: motorcycle or James Dean at the Griffith Park Observatory, that 143 00:10:30,716 --> 00:10:34,876 Speaker 7: whole thing. And I just think that in the forties 144 00:10:34,916 --> 00:10:39,436 Speaker 7: and the early fifties, what would be something he could 145 00:10:39,436 --> 00:10:41,716 Speaker 7: throw in society's face. I think he put a swastik 146 00:10:41,796 --> 00:10:45,076 Speaker 7: on a board, and I believe Mickey also had a 147 00:10:45,116 --> 00:10:52,316 Speaker 7: SS leather coat. He wasn't a Nazi had never, never, 148 00:10:52,356 --> 00:10:55,796 Speaker 7: to my knowledge, did he say those kinds of things. 149 00:10:56,636 --> 00:11:00,756 Speaker 7: He was a loner. He just wasn't, you know, an 150 00:11:00,796 --> 00:11:04,836 Speaker 7: anti Semite, although he could perform it. But then the 151 00:11:04,916 --> 00:11:08,956 Speaker 7: question is if you perform it, then maybe you are reading. 152 00:11:09,196 --> 00:11:11,836 Speaker 1: With the letters Mickey sent Linda, I saw a number 153 00:11:11,836 --> 00:11:16,076 Speaker 1: of references to David Renson, the person Mickey feared was 154 00:11:16,116 --> 00:11:19,476 Speaker 1: going to expose him in the pages of California Magazine 155 00:11:19,596 --> 00:11:23,476 Speaker 1: back in the early eighties. When I was with Linda, 156 00:11:23,636 --> 00:11:26,596 Speaker 1: she brought out this binder of letters that Mickey had 157 00:11:26,636 --> 00:11:31,756 Speaker 1: sent her and I took pictures of a bunch of them, 158 00:11:32,436 --> 00:11:37,076 Speaker 1: and it was okay with her. And in reading through them, 159 00:11:37,156 --> 00:11:39,716 Speaker 1: I have to tell you, I came across some references 160 00:11:39,756 --> 00:11:45,476 Speaker 1: that I found really toxic that he made, and I 161 00:11:45,516 --> 00:11:47,556 Speaker 1: think they were about you, but I'm not sure. 162 00:11:49,636 --> 00:11:50,996 Speaker 7: Well this is the one where you call me a 163 00:11:51,036 --> 00:11:53,676 Speaker 7: third rate carpetbagger, or well I. 164 00:11:53,596 --> 00:11:57,436 Speaker 1: Can show you he doesn't say your name, so I don't. 165 00:11:58,036 --> 00:12:00,876 Speaker 7: Yeah, I'd like to know for sure. Yeah, I may 166 00:12:00,916 --> 00:12:08,356 Speaker 7: have shaded a paragraph there. Fat You from New York 167 00:12:08,396 --> 00:12:12,036 Speaker 7: has spent six months researching My life, huge anticipated article 168 00:12:12,076 --> 00:12:14,796 Speaker 7: to be published in July for okay, has been bugging 169 00:12:14,876 --> 00:12:19,156 Speaker 7: my asshole father and other assholes. This guy's going frantic 170 00:12:19,156 --> 00:12:22,516 Speaker 7: to locate my whereabouts. So far I'm safe. Snooper's talking 171 00:12:22,556 --> 00:12:26,196 Speaker 7: everyone I hate, including guests who none o the Pirate 172 00:12:26,236 --> 00:12:37,636 Speaker 7: captain m Yeah, okay, well it's toxic, but so fucking. 173 00:12:37,436 --> 00:12:44,596 Speaker 1: What it gets uglier. Mickey wrote to Linda, quote, we 174 00:12:44,716 --> 00:12:48,156 Speaker 1: both knew that some hook knows MF would sniff out 175 00:12:48,156 --> 00:12:51,436 Speaker 1: a story one day. He also wrote that the Pirate 176 00:12:51,476 --> 00:12:56,036 Speaker 1: captain Don Wilson, Linda's X, who talked to Rensen quote 177 00:12:56,556 --> 00:13:01,356 Speaker 1: kissed the feet of this Jew bastard. And then, when 178 00:13:01,396 --> 00:13:05,076 Speaker 1: the article was optioned by the producer David Geffen, Mickey 179 00:13:05,116 --> 00:13:10,396 Speaker 1: wrote quote, I've found out some beady eyed, copulating Jew 180 00:13:10,556 --> 00:13:13,756 Speaker 1: faggot has bought my life story from the other Jew 181 00:13:14,076 --> 00:13:17,436 Speaker 1: and are making my life into a film starring another 182 00:13:17,636 --> 00:13:23,036 Speaker 1: well favored, bright eyed Jew. If they want information, talk 183 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:30,996 Speaker 1: to the rats. This is clearly not punk, not a pose, 184 00:13:31,716 --> 00:13:38,516 Speaker 1: not a middle finger to society. This is raw bigotry. 185 00:13:39,516 --> 00:13:42,716 Speaker 1: As David absorbs the letters, I feel him processing this 186 00:13:42,836 --> 00:13:48,956 Speaker 1: question of whether Mickey is performing anti Semitism or expressing it. 187 00:13:49,996 --> 00:13:52,676 Speaker 7: People ask me how I can celebrate Mickey Dora. You know, 188 00:13:53,236 --> 00:13:57,516 Speaker 7: but I don't think I'm celebrating him. I mean unless 189 00:13:57,556 --> 00:14:01,276 Speaker 7: the act of writing about somebody is celebration. I mean, 190 00:14:01,356 --> 00:14:03,796 Speaker 7: he's a too bit hustler to some people, and he's 191 00:14:04,516 --> 00:14:08,476 Speaker 7: God on a surfboard to other people. I just thought 192 00:14:08,476 --> 00:14:13,996 Speaker 7: it was an interesting story to tell. I agree with you. Yeah, well, 193 00:14:14,036 --> 00:14:18,396 Speaker 7: I'm glad you show me those letters, because Micky was 194 00:14:18,396 --> 00:14:20,516 Speaker 7: a nasty piece of work at times. 195 00:14:21,316 --> 00:14:24,836 Speaker 1: It's subtle, but it literally feels like a change has 196 00:14:24,876 --> 00:14:28,956 Speaker 1: come over David, like he's revising his opinion in real 197 00:14:29,036 --> 00:14:34,836 Speaker 1: time in front of me, and there's this other feeling disappointment. 198 00:14:35,996 --> 00:14:40,596 Speaker 1: Micky didn't even say his name. He reduced him to 199 00:14:40,716 --> 00:14:41,236 Speaker 1: a slur. 200 00:14:42,996 --> 00:14:48,996 Speaker 7: I really, I've lost weight, Mickey. He just can't take 201 00:14:49,036 --> 00:14:52,956 Speaker 7: this up personally. I mean, it sucks, but I mean 202 00:14:52,956 --> 00:14:56,316 Speaker 7: it just shows, you know, he he was anti Semitic 203 00:14:56,356 --> 00:15:00,956 Speaker 7: when it suited him, so I you know, and I 204 00:15:01,116 --> 00:15:02,076 Speaker 7: wouldn't be his friend. 205 00:15:03,596 --> 00:15:07,796 Speaker 1: David's thinking, still trying to make sense of his subject. 206 00:15:08,316 --> 00:15:10,596 Speaker 1: Twenty plus years after his death. 207 00:15:12,236 --> 00:15:14,996 Speaker 7: Somebody said to me that they listened to Mickey and 208 00:15:15,036 --> 00:15:17,636 Speaker 7: what he said sounded great, made no sense at all. 209 00:15:18,636 --> 00:15:23,036 Speaker 7: And you know, when you're somebody hero, you're more willing 210 00:15:23,036 --> 00:15:23,836 Speaker 7: to give them a break. 211 00:15:39,436 --> 00:15:43,156 Speaker 1: Mickey and Linda's romance played out across a dozen countries 212 00:15:43,276 --> 00:15:47,236 Speaker 1: in hotel rooms and hideouts and campgrounds. They were chasing 213 00:15:47,236 --> 00:15:50,556 Speaker 1: the surf, living by their wits and getting away with it, 214 00:15:51,276 --> 00:15:54,116 Speaker 1: stealing from the market for breakfast and dining with the 215 00:15:54,196 --> 00:15:59,596 Speaker 1: Rothschilds for lunch. They did exactly as they pleased. Mickey 216 00:15:59,636 --> 00:16:04,756 Speaker 1: thought this made them free, but Linda found out nothing 217 00:16:05,156 --> 00:16:10,236 Speaker 1: is for free. Is there anything that you sort of 218 00:16:10,636 --> 00:16:13,916 Speaker 1: took away from your relationship with Mickey when you reflect 219 00:16:13,996 --> 00:16:14,396 Speaker 1: back on. 220 00:16:14,396 --> 00:16:19,236 Speaker 2: It, Yeah, I'd say it. I used to be very, 221 00:16:19,356 --> 00:16:25,196 Speaker 2: very trusting, and I think now I really look at 222 00:16:25,236 --> 00:16:29,956 Speaker 2: stuff twice or three times or four times, you know, 223 00:16:30,116 --> 00:16:37,876 Speaker 2: to be sure. Yeah, it's a hard one to really 224 00:16:39,716 --> 00:16:42,956 Speaker 2: go deep into that. It's like the love thing, you know, 225 00:16:44,076 --> 00:16:44,836 Speaker 2: like what is it? 226 00:16:48,036 --> 00:16:50,756 Speaker 1: Linda says there was a moment in nineteen seventy six 227 00:16:50,956 --> 00:16:54,556 Speaker 1: when she saw Micky clearly and could never unsee him. 228 00:16:55,476 --> 00:16:58,236 Speaker 1: They were on the run from the FBI and Linda 229 00:16:58,356 --> 00:16:59,516 Speaker 1: needed Mickey's help. 230 00:17:00,956 --> 00:17:04,076 Speaker 2: I get we were coming back from I think it 231 00:17:04,116 --> 00:17:08,716 Speaker 2: was Kenya, and we flew into we were in Europe, 232 00:17:09,436 --> 00:17:12,956 Speaker 2: and I was sick well. I couldn't hold anything down. 233 00:17:14,196 --> 00:17:16,916 Speaker 1: This was when they stopped in Germany and Mickey bought 234 00:17:16,956 --> 00:17:19,956 Speaker 1: his dark green Mercedes camera van. They were on their 235 00:17:19,996 --> 00:17:21,956 Speaker 1: way to France to disappear. 236 00:17:23,196 --> 00:17:27,156 Speaker 2: I was losing weight. I couldn't eat, it was throwing 237 00:17:27,276 --> 00:17:34,916 Speaker 2: up every morning. And Mickey was not very sympathetic. It 238 00:17:34,956 --> 00:17:39,556 Speaker 2: was like, you deal with your problem. He kept giving 239 00:17:39,556 --> 00:17:44,156 Speaker 2: me this German Undenberg, which you take. It's if you've 240 00:17:44,196 --> 00:17:47,156 Speaker 2: had a hangover and you've sick to your stomach, you 241 00:17:47,316 --> 00:17:50,236 Speaker 2: down this stuff. It was horrible. He gave me a 242 00:17:50,236 --> 00:17:53,356 Speaker 2: couple of those, and I was sicker and I said, 243 00:17:53,356 --> 00:17:59,756 Speaker 2: this is not a hangover. I said, I'm pregnant because 244 00:17:59,796 --> 00:18:02,796 Speaker 2: I was missing periods and you know, I knew the symptoms. 245 00:18:02,836 --> 00:18:04,916 Speaker 2: You know, I was having morning sickness, and I said, 246 00:18:04,916 --> 00:18:13,156 Speaker 2: this is pregnancy. You know. Mickey wasn't happy. Why his 247 00:18:13,196 --> 00:18:16,036 Speaker 2: Mickey's thing was always his little comment was you'll ruin 248 00:18:16,036 --> 00:18:20,116 Speaker 2: the trip if I didn't do something, You're going to 249 00:18:20,236 --> 00:18:21,076 Speaker 2: ruin the trip. 250 00:18:21,276 --> 00:18:25,916 Speaker 1: By being pregnant. Yeah, she was pregnant on the run 251 00:18:26,156 --> 00:18:28,876 Speaker 1: and living in a camera van, and add to that, 252 00:18:29,196 --> 00:18:33,596 Speaker 1: her passport had been stolen and Mickey wasn't there for her. 253 00:18:34,756 --> 00:18:39,476 Speaker 2: I was scared. I was scared, you know, because when 254 00:18:39,476 --> 00:18:41,356 Speaker 2: that happens like that, you're on your own. 255 00:18:41,396 --> 00:18:41,596 Speaker 3: Man. 256 00:18:42,956 --> 00:18:45,836 Speaker 2: You know, you're not married, you're not in a house, 257 00:18:46,516 --> 00:18:49,836 Speaker 2: you're on the road. You don't even have right id 258 00:18:50,796 --> 00:19:00,556 Speaker 2: you were, you know, money. It's not an environment where 259 00:19:00,596 --> 00:19:06,036 Speaker 2: you want to have a child. Come period. This was real, 260 00:19:06,436 --> 00:19:09,836 Speaker 2: real scary. 261 00:19:09,876 --> 00:19:11,956 Speaker 1: And you couldn't raise a kid with Mickey if Mickey 262 00:19:11,956 --> 00:19:16,236 Speaker 1: didn't want to raise a kid. No, Linda won't say 263 00:19:16,436 --> 00:19:19,716 Speaker 1: exactly what happened with the baby, but she does tell 264 00:19:19,756 --> 00:19:24,076 Speaker 1: me why Mickey didn't want a child. Clearly, a baby 265 00:19:24,116 --> 00:19:29,076 Speaker 1: would have complicated their international surf bandit plans, but Mickey's 266 00:19:29,116 --> 00:19:32,556 Speaker 1: reluctance to become a father came from a deeper, more 267 00:19:32,636 --> 00:19:33,596 Speaker 1: tortured place. 268 00:19:34,876 --> 00:19:44,796 Speaker 2: Mickey was worried about a child, especially a girl, that 269 00:19:45,116 --> 00:19:48,276 Speaker 2: she would be abused in the future by people trying 270 00:19:48,276 --> 00:19:53,836 Speaker 2: to get back at him. And he even said, you know, 271 00:19:54,516 --> 00:19:56,516 Speaker 2: he said, a boy, he said, I don't care, you know, 272 00:19:56,596 --> 00:19:59,956 Speaker 2: let him get his ass kicked. You know, if a 273 00:20:00,076 --> 00:20:03,356 Speaker 2: son would be like, okay, your turn now to figure 274 00:20:03,356 --> 00:20:08,316 Speaker 2: it out. A daughter, he was like, very very worried. 275 00:20:09,156 --> 00:20:12,356 Speaker 2: He said, some asshole is going to come along and 276 00:20:12,996 --> 00:20:16,356 Speaker 2: fuck her and get her pregnant just to get back 277 00:20:16,396 --> 00:20:16,596 Speaker 2: at me. 278 00:20:18,076 --> 00:20:24,716 Speaker 1: This makes Mickey seem truly sick, unless it was just 279 00:20:24,756 --> 00:20:29,316 Speaker 1: his excuse. Linda broke up with Mickey for good in 280 00:20:29,436 --> 00:20:33,876 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, not long before Mickey was arrested. Linda went 281 00:20:33,916 --> 00:20:36,876 Speaker 1: to Ireland and spent years living in a rusted out 282 00:20:36,996 --> 00:20:41,356 Speaker 1: VW on a desolate beach, purging Mickey from her system. 283 00:20:41,836 --> 00:20:45,516 Speaker 1: He visited her sometimes, but Ireland was too cold for him. 284 00:20:46,236 --> 00:20:49,036 Speaker 1: He begged her to join him in South Africa. 285 00:20:49,836 --> 00:20:55,836 Speaker 2: Found the perfect right point Jeffrey's Bay Come Good movement. 286 00:20:55,876 --> 00:21:01,996 Speaker 2: I was stuck. Love was gone. That wasn't love, but 287 00:21:02,116 --> 00:21:05,796 Speaker 2: you know there was something fascination, Yeah, the fascination there, 288 00:21:05,796 --> 00:21:08,836 Speaker 2: it is. The fascination was gone. 289 00:21:09,236 --> 00:21:13,076 Speaker 1: Mickey wanted to rekindle what they had, but Linda had 290 00:21:13,116 --> 00:21:15,196 Speaker 1: reached her limit long ago. 291 00:21:16,516 --> 00:21:23,556 Speaker 2: I think I saw too much, you know, I was 292 00:21:24,076 --> 00:21:26,556 Speaker 2: experiencing too much and I was done. You know, I 293 00:21:26,596 --> 00:21:30,156 Speaker 2: wanted to just be calm. And it wasn't going to 294 00:21:30,196 --> 00:21:32,036 Speaker 2: be New Zealand, and it wasn't going to be France, 295 00:21:32,196 --> 00:21:35,276 Speaker 2: and it wasn't going to be Jeffrey's Bay. 296 00:21:35,476 --> 00:21:39,116 Speaker 1: Mickey put her through a lot. As exhilarating as their 297 00:21:39,156 --> 00:21:45,396 Speaker 1: shared adventure was, it was exhausting. He was exhausting. For 298 00:21:45,436 --> 00:21:49,516 Speaker 1: a long time, she'd believed they were pursuing freedom together. 299 00:21:50,556 --> 00:21:59,116 Speaker 1: Then she realized he was only for himself. I'm gonna 300 00:21:59,196 --> 00:22:02,436 Speaker 1: ask you to read this little passage at the end 301 00:22:02,476 --> 00:22:07,596 Speaker 1: of your book and then sort of, you know, people 302 00:22:07,596 --> 00:22:11,396 Speaker 1: can do what they want with it. I passed Linda 303 00:22:11,476 --> 00:22:14,516 Speaker 1: a copy of her book, The Surf Sting. It's an 304 00:22:14,556 --> 00:22:17,756 Speaker 1: account of her adventures with Mickey, Dora and Don Wilson, 305 00:22:17,996 --> 00:22:21,476 Speaker 1: the pirate Captain. I circled it right there. 306 00:22:22,836 --> 00:22:26,996 Speaker 2: She need reading? Is there the blue? 307 00:22:27,716 --> 00:22:29,876 Speaker 1: This is a passage that comes right at the end. 308 00:22:30,476 --> 00:22:32,676 Speaker 1: It's set apart from the rest of the text in 309 00:22:32,756 --> 00:22:33,876 Speaker 1: a larger typeface. 310 00:22:35,236 --> 00:22:40,276 Speaker 2: Mikola. She's beautiful, dark brown, curly hair, big brown eyes, 311 00:22:40,356 --> 00:22:45,156 Speaker 2: almost gipsy looking, maybe a bit Italian. She's a young 312 00:22:45,196 --> 00:22:49,196 Speaker 2: woman now speaks three languages, raised by a wealthy and 313 00:22:49,316 --> 00:22:54,356 Speaker 2: prominent wine connoisseur. Does she serf? Maybe she definitely skis 314 00:22:54,716 --> 00:22:55,516 Speaker 2: any pictures? 315 00:22:55,676 --> 00:22:56,036 Speaker 6: What for? 316 00:22:56,716 --> 00:23:00,636 Speaker 2: You might get lucky and meet her sometime? Any more questions? 317 00:23:00,876 --> 00:23:04,556 Speaker 2: Nobody bothered to ask Mickey. I didn't have to I 318 00:23:04,636 --> 00:23:15,196 Speaker 2: was there. It is what it is bittersweet. 319 00:23:16,676 --> 00:23:21,156 Speaker 1: It's bittersweet because the life she's just described. Mikola's life 320 00:23:21,516 --> 00:23:26,956 Speaker 1: sounds wonderful in many ways, wherever she is, whoever she is. 321 00:23:28,276 --> 00:23:31,436 Speaker 1: But I can't help thinking of all that Linda lost, 322 00:23:32,396 --> 00:23:37,356 Speaker 1: sacrificed for Mickey's fear and selfishness that could make a 323 00:23:37,396 --> 00:23:39,516 Speaker 1: person fall right out of love. 324 00:23:40,716 --> 00:23:44,916 Speaker 2: It wasn't about love. I don't think it ever was. 325 00:23:46,876 --> 00:23:50,596 Speaker 2: Because love, what is love? I mean, what's the definition 326 00:23:50,676 --> 00:23:54,076 Speaker 2: of love? You have to I mean, love can be 327 00:23:54,116 --> 00:23:57,716 Speaker 2: different for everybody. I don't think it's something you can 328 00:23:57,796 --> 00:24:01,756 Speaker 2: really say this is how it works, you know, because 329 00:24:01,796 --> 00:24:05,236 Speaker 2: I love my husband. My husband is just the pickle, 330 00:24:07,956 --> 00:24:10,556 Speaker 2: and I would have never had that with Mickey or 331 00:24:10,636 --> 00:24:13,076 Speaker 2: don Period. I know that for sure. 332 00:24:14,996 --> 00:24:19,116 Speaker 1: Did you have other kids in your life? 333 00:24:19,396 --> 00:24:25,196 Speaker 2: No, but my husband has two boys. They're both very, 334 00:24:25,396 --> 00:24:28,556 Speaker 2: very good, good kids. He raised them well. And it's 335 00:24:28,556 --> 00:24:30,916 Speaker 2: funny because I think about if I had a kid 336 00:24:30,996 --> 00:24:36,236 Speaker 2: with him, it would have been wonderful, you know, but 337 00:24:38,436 --> 00:24:42,916 Speaker 2: life can bite you sometimes big time. It's funny too 338 00:24:42,956 --> 00:24:48,036 Speaker 2: because my mom, when I told her, you know, she 339 00:24:48,196 --> 00:24:48,956 Speaker 2: was so mad at me. 340 00:24:50,836 --> 00:24:51,316 Speaker 1: She said I. 341 00:24:51,316 --> 00:24:55,596 Speaker 2: Would have raised her. I would have raised my grandchild. 342 00:24:56,276 --> 00:25:00,196 Speaker 2: And I said, Mom, it wasn't like that. I said, 343 00:25:00,196 --> 00:25:04,516 Speaker 2: you couldn't just have her here because somebody would know 344 00:25:05,596 --> 00:25:09,036 Speaker 2: who she was, you know, I said, it wouldn't. 345 00:25:12,596 --> 00:25:18,316 Speaker 1: This is Linda's regret that she believed Mickey bought in 346 00:25:18,716 --> 00:25:22,316 Speaker 1: for a time to his dark view of the world. 347 00:25:23,276 --> 00:25:28,076 Speaker 1: Back then she couldn't see beyond it, and now she 348 00:25:28,276 --> 00:25:29,276 Speaker 1: has no daughter. 349 00:25:30,556 --> 00:25:31,556 Speaker 7: But it's okay. 350 00:25:32,916 --> 00:25:36,116 Speaker 2: It's all hard. Everything was fun and breezy and nice, 351 00:25:36,236 --> 00:25:38,876 Speaker 2: and then that was the hard part. So you get 352 00:25:38,876 --> 00:25:45,076 Speaker 2: slapped in the end. You know, in some way you'll pay. 353 00:25:45,956 --> 00:25:52,756 Speaker 2: I paid the price. Not nice. 354 00:25:52,836 --> 00:25:55,716 Speaker 1: The promise of the Mickey and Linda adventure had been 355 00:25:55,796 --> 00:25:59,036 Speaker 1: that it would all be free. They would travel and 356 00:25:59,156 --> 00:26:02,396 Speaker 1: surf and not have to work. The lifestyle would be 357 00:26:02,436 --> 00:26:07,356 Speaker 1: free and they would be free. But it didn't really 358 00:26:07,436 --> 00:26:11,596 Speaker 1: turn out that way. So I was going to ask you, 359 00:26:11,676 --> 00:26:14,356 Speaker 1: but I think you may have just answered this. What 360 00:26:14,676 --> 00:26:16,516 Speaker 1: these adventures cost you. 361 00:26:20,036 --> 00:26:28,116 Speaker 2: I got from your daughter, Yeah, which would have been 362 00:26:28,516 --> 00:26:35,996 Speaker 2: very amazing, you know, to have brought her here. But 363 00:26:36,036 --> 00:26:41,036 Speaker 2: it's okay. She's fretet and easy. 364 00:26:42,156 --> 00:26:46,316 Speaker 1: Mickey paid to he went to prison, but he never 365 00:26:46,516 --> 00:26:49,876 Speaker 1: grew up the way Linda did. He never had to. 366 00:26:50,956 --> 00:26:53,316 Speaker 1: He continued to write her letters from the ends of 367 00:26:53,356 --> 00:26:57,316 Speaker 1: the earth. Wherever he was. He referred to it as 368 00:26:58,196 --> 00:27:24,036 Speaker 1: never never Land. Mickey will always represent the worst impulses 369 00:27:24,036 --> 00:27:29,516 Speaker 1: of surf culture, the pull toward exclusion and xenophobia, But 370 00:27:29,636 --> 00:27:34,756 Speaker 1: the surf media that fanned Mickey's legend has never forsaken him. 371 00:27:35,396 --> 00:27:38,996 Speaker 8: How hard is it to just say, Gee, this guy 372 00:27:39,036 --> 00:27:41,436 Speaker 8: who died a long time ago, who was just a 373 00:27:41,436 --> 00:27:43,636 Speaker 8: good surfer in the fifties. That's all he was, was 374 00:27:43,636 --> 00:27:46,916 Speaker 8: a handsome guy who was a good surfer, said some 375 00:27:46,956 --> 00:27:50,636 Speaker 8: really nasty, gross things that suggest really dark hatreds in 376 00:27:50,676 --> 00:27:56,356 Speaker 8: his heart. Writer and surfer Dan Dwayne again, that question, 377 00:27:56,716 --> 00:28:01,036 Speaker 8: to myself is right, what is the big deal? Why 378 00:28:01,076 --> 00:28:02,956 Speaker 8: is it so hard to say that was kind of gross? 379 00:28:02,996 --> 00:28:06,796 Speaker 8: Maybe we shouldn't worship that guy anymore. Why can't we 380 00:28:06,876 --> 00:28:09,956 Speaker 8: just say it's painful? Why can can't we just say 381 00:28:10,036 --> 00:28:13,676 Speaker 8: it's hateful? This is not a big lift, This is 382 00:28:13,796 --> 00:28:16,956 Speaker 8: not a high bar. You know, you don't have to 383 00:28:16,956 --> 00:28:19,556 Speaker 8: be a conspiracy theorist to connect the dots around this. 384 00:28:20,996 --> 00:28:24,236 Speaker 1: Surfing now is so much bigger than when Mickey was 385 00:28:24,236 --> 00:28:28,116 Speaker 1: in his prime, and that Dan says is a good thing. 386 00:28:29,436 --> 00:28:34,636 Speaker 8: This is a global culture, and more and more it's 387 00:28:34,676 --> 00:28:38,996 Speaker 8: in everybody culture in a kind of a beautiful way, 388 00:28:39,156 --> 00:28:40,836 Speaker 8: Like that's better that way for it to be in 389 00:28:40,916 --> 00:28:43,996 Speaker 8: everybody culture. I'm glad it's in everybody culture. I don't 390 00:28:44,036 --> 00:28:46,316 Speaker 8: want to go back to when it's not in everybody culture. 391 00:28:46,596 --> 00:28:47,996 Speaker 8: I didn't like it more that way. 392 00:28:49,116 --> 00:28:52,276 Speaker 1: And when I think of an everybody culture, I know 393 00:28:52,396 --> 00:28:55,716 Speaker 1: that doesn't come from Mickey. It comes from a spunky 394 00:28:55,796 --> 00:28:58,556 Speaker 1: fifteen year old who didn't let a few pineapples in 395 00:28:58,596 --> 00:29:01,076 Speaker 1: the face get between her and the waves. 396 00:29:03,036 --> 00:29:04,236 Speaker 4: Oh no, back again. 397 00:29:04,596 --> 00:29:07,196 Speaker 2: Any objections you want me to reel off the whole 398 00:29:07,196 --> 00:29:08,916 Speaker 2: list that I like to start? 399 00:29:09,316 --> 00:29:14,556 Speaker 1: How does on Mickey blamed Gidget for ruining Malibu? But 400 00:29:14,636 --> 00:29:19,076 Speaker 1: I have to disagree. I think Mickey ruined Malibu by 401 00:29:19,116 --> 00:29:21,596 Speaker 1: treating it like it belonged to him and trying to 402 00:29:21,636 --> 00:29:28,156 Speaker 1: scare everyone else away. There's a thread that seems to 403 00:29:28,236 --> 00:29:31,916 Speaker 1: lead from Kathy's identity and her family's history in Hollywood 404 00:29:32,316 --> 00:29:36,196 Speaker 1: to the popularization of surfing and Mickey's vitriol about all 405 00:29:36,196 --> 00:29:40,516 Speaker 1: of it, not to mention Mickey's SS leather trench coat 406 00:29:40,636 --> 00:29:47,076 Speaker 1: and the swastika on his surfboard. Did he express specific 407 00:29:47,316 --> 00:29:51,396 Speaker 1: frustration about Gidget. 408 00:29:53,396 --> 00:29:57,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, he didn't like the whole thing because it was 409 00:29:57,116 --> 00:30:01,196 Speaker 2: the start. It threw everything up into the air and 410 00:30:01,276 --> 00:30:06,276 Speaker 2: everybody had a look, you know, And he never liked her. 411 00:30:07,516 --> 00:30:11,196 Speaker 2: He always had to of a racist attitude. 412 00:30:12,676 --> 00:30:13,716 Speaker 1: Because she was Jewish. 413 00:30:14,156 --> 00:30:18,156 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he used to like to throw that around. True. 414 00:30:18,956 --> 00:30:22,916 Speaker 1: The Gidget movie, with its daffy blonde starlet, isn't really 415 00:30:22,956 --> 00:30:27,436 Speaker 1: what surfing's all about. But Gidget, the person, an intrepid 416 00:30:27,516 --> 00:30:30,156 Speaker 1: Jewish girl who insisted that the guys on the beach 417 00:30:30,196 --> 00:30:34,556 Speaker 1: except her, is the living proof that surfing doesn't belong 418 00:30:34,796 --> 00:30:37,716 Speaker 1: to the guard Chapins and Mickey Dora's of the world. 419 00:30:38,836 --> 00:30:42,916 Speaker 9: That the women to the surfing community, which was really 420 00:30:43,316 --> 00:30:44,356 Speaker 9: unheard of back then. 421 00:30:45,836 --> 00:30:49,556 Speaker 1: Former Malibu lifeguard Henry Ford, there are. 422 00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:52,796 Speaker 9: Very few women in those early days that came down 423 00:30:52,836 --> 00:30:55,916 Speaker 9: and I think Gidget opened that up. Kathy opened that 424 00:30:56,036 --> 00:30:58,996 Speaker 9: door for a lot of women, and women became part 425 00:30:59,036 --> 00:31:01,956 Speaker 9: of the surfing community. And now almost any day you've 426 00:31:01,996 --> 00:31:03,876 Speaker 9: had out in any of the surf spots that you'll 427 00:31:03,876 --> 00:31:07,916 Speaker 9: see at least at least a third of the people 428 00:31:07,956 --> 00:31:12,476 Speaker 9: in the water are women. Nowadays, maybe even more depending 429 00:31:12,476 --> 00:31:15,876 Speaker 9: on where you are. So I think that it started 430 00:31:15,916 --> 00:31:19,676 Speaker 9: with Kathy and those films and moving forward. 431 00:31:21,276 --> 00:31:25,076 Speaker 1: Mickey and Kathy were from the same world of European emigres. 432 00:31:25,596 --> 00:31:29,116 Speaker 1: They met and found fame on the same beach in Malibu, 433 00:31:29,636 --> 00:31:35,236 Speaker 1: riding the same waves. Mickey vanished and by disappearing became 434 00:31:35,356 --> 00:31:40,436 Speaker 1: the most legendary surfer of all time. Kathy stayed put, 435 00:31:40,716 --> 00:31:43,596 Speaker 1: but she was more or less forgotten after her reputation 436 00:31:43,716 --> 00:31:48,196 Speaker 1: in the surf world was destroyed. Mickey said, Gidget was 437 00:31:48,236 --> 00:31:52,356 Speaker 1: what was wrong with surfing, but finally people are starting 438 00:31:52,356 --> 00:31:55,636 Speaker 1: to recognize that she represents what's right about it. 439 00:31:59,116 --> 00:32:03,676 Speaker 5: From that Gigan on having the California Serti Museum, we'd 440 00:32:03,676 --> 00:32:07,116 Speaker 5: like in you this silver Server reward. So let's hear 441 00:32:07,156 --> 00:32:07,756 Speaker 5: it from the gind. 442 00:32:10,636 --> 00:32:14,636 Speaker 1: That's jim Kempton again. Back in November twenty twenty two, 443 00:32:15,036 --> 00:32:18,676 Speaker 1: the California Surf Museum honored Kathy with a Lifetime Achievement 444 00:32:18,716 --> 00:32:21,236 Speaker 1: Award for her contributions to the surf industry. 445 00:32:22,116 --> 00:32:24,436 Speaker 4: I give you the one and only Kathy kohnor Zuckerman, 446 00:32:24,956 --> 00:32:27,076 Speaker 4: aka the real Gidget. 447 00:32:31,556 --> 00:32:34,156 Speaker 3: They say, keep company with those that make me feel better, 448 00:32:34,756 --> 00:32:39,316 Speaker 3: and how Honestly, this has been unbelievable. 449 00:32:39,476 --> 00:32:41,636 Speaker 4: Like me, like me, and really like me. 450 00:32:45,836 --> 00:32:48,956 Speaker 1: Gidget opened the door for women to surf. She gave 451 00:32:48,996 --> 00:32:52,356 Speaker 1: them a template, an iconic figure they could relate to 452 00:32:52,676 --> 00:32:53,596 Speaker 1: and try to imitate. 453 00:32:55,156 --> 00:32:57,596 Speaker 2: I loved Didgit the TV show as a kid like 454 00:32:57,676 --> 00:32:59,316 Speaker 2: I always the Sally Field. 455 00:32:59,036 --> 00:33:03,156 Speaker 1: And even an accidental icon a twenty ten documentary about 456 00:33:03,236 --> 00:33:08,116 Speaker 1: Kathy's life. Many professional female surfers credited the Gidget franchise 457 00:33:08,316 --> 00:33:12,356 Speaker 1: with making surf a more welcoming sport for women to 458 00:33:12,476 --> 00:33:12,916 Speaker 1: the sport. 459 00:33:13,236 --> 00:33:16,916 Speaker 2: I grew up seeing images of Gidget surfing on TV, 460 00:33:16,996 --> 00:33:19,636 Speaker 2: and she's the only woman that I ever saw surfing 461 00:33:19,676 --> 00:33:21,836 Speaker 2: on TV. And it never occurred to. 462 00:33:21,796 --> 00:33:24,316 Speaker 1: Me that girls didn't surf until I was a teenager 463 00:33:24,356 --> 00:33:26,156 Speaker 1: and looked around in the lineup and saw that I 464 00:33:26,196 --> 00:33:26,916 Speaker 1: was the only one. 465 00:33:27,076 --> 00:33:27,276 Speaker 4: You know. 466 00:33:27,316 --> 00:33:28,996 Speaker 3: I used to watch all those movies when I was 467 00:33:28,996 --> 00:33:29,836 Speaker 3: a kid and just. 468 00:33:29,756 --> 00:33:32,036 Speaker 6: Like fantasize about the whole beach life. 469 00:33:32,076 --> 00:33:34,476 Speaker 2: And when I got to, you know, live at myself, 470 00:33:34,476 --> 00:33:37,116 Speaker 2: it was awesome, you know. And without her, and without 471 00:33:37,116 --> 00:33:39,716 Speaker 2: those movies, who know where surfing today would be. 472 00:33:41,236 --> 00:33:44,956 Speaker 1: That last voice belongs to Cassia Miador. She's one of 473 00:33:44,956 --> 00:33:47,756 Speaker 1: the best long borders in the world and a surf 474 00:33:47,796 --> 00:33:51,396 Speaker 1: mentor to me. A few times now, I've gone with 475 00:33:51,516 --> 00:33:55,756 Speaker 1: Cassia and her friend Leah Dawson, another amazing longboarder, to 476 00:33:55,796 --> 00:33:58,796 Speaker 1: spend a few days at Santa Nofre, that beach where 477 00:33:58,836 --> 00:34:03,276 Speaker 1: Mickey learned to surf. It's a bunch of women surfing 478 00:34:03,356 --> 00:34:07,356 Speaker 1: and camping and sitting around the fire pit. I don't 479 00:34:07,356 --> 00:34:11,156 Speaker 1: think I've heard anyone mention Gidget, but she's there in 480 00:34:11,196 --> 00:34:14,316 Speaker 1: the background. In the subtext of the stories, the women 481 00:34:14,396 --> 00:34:17,636 Speaker 1: tell of how they learned to surf and kept at 482 00:34:17,676 --> 00:34:20,436 Speaker 1: it in spite of all the things that might have 483 00:34:20,516 --> 00:34:25,476 Speaker 1: made them turn away, because surfing is that fun, that 484 00:34:25,956 --> 00:34:31,036 Speaker 1: worth it. When I was pregnant with my second child, 485 00:34:31,236 --> 00:34:35,756 Speaker 1: my husband gave me a beautiful pink surfboard. He doesn't surf, 486 00:34:36,116 --> 00:34:39,356 Speaker 1: but he said he could picture me surfing and he 487 00:34:39,436 --> 00:34:43,396 Speaker 1: thought I would love it. The baby was a girl, 488 00:34:43,756 --> 00:34:46,236 Speaker 1: and after she was born, my husband and I would 489 00:34:46,276 --> 00:34:49,036 Speaker 1: take her and her older brother to the beach. My 490 00:34:49,116 --> 00:34:51,076 Speaker 1: husband would play with the kids in the sand while 491 00:34:51,076 --> 00:34:55,236 Speaker 1: I messed around in the waves a happy coop. I 492 00:34:55,356 --> 00:34:58,596 Speaker 1: remember carrying my daughter on one hip and my board 493 00:34:58,636 --> 00:35:03,556 Speaker 1: on the other she's ten now, and of course she's 494 00:35:03,596 --> 00:35:07,796 Speaker 1: a better surfer than I am. This is how it's 495 00:35:07,836 --> 00:35:14,476 Speaker 1: supposed to be. The division's Mickey sde still pop up 496 00:35:14,876 --> 00:35:19,796 Speaker 1: like ugly weeds, but he was fighting the inevitable. And 497 00:35:19,836 --> 00:35:22,156 Speaker 1: I hope that by the time my daughter is driving 498 00:35:22,236 --> 00:35:26,076 Speaker 1: herself to the beach to surf, the signs telling kooks 499 00:35:26,116 --> 00:35:30,996 Speaker 1: to go home, the racial hate, the swastikas, that will 500 00:35:31,036 --> 00:35:34,916 Speaker 1: all just be a story to her, a story from 501 00:35:34,956 --> 00:35:35,836 Speaker 1: the dark ages. 502 00:35:38,716 --> 00:35:41,276 Speaker 4: It was never going to be anything other than what's 503 00:35:41,276 --> 00:35:43,516 Speaker 4: sort of happening now, which is come one, come. 504 00:35:43,356 --> 00:35:47,076 Speaker 1: All, surf historian Matt Warshaw. 505 00:35:47,676 --> 00:35:52,796 Speaker 4: Because being in the ocean, riding waves, talking about riding 506 00:35:52,796 --> 00:35:57,956 Speaker 4: waves is a really fun, compelling, gorgeous thing to do, 507 00:35:58,596 --> 00:36:00,036 Speaker 4: and why shouldn't everybody do it. 508 00:36:07,036 --> 00:36:10,636 Speaker 1: Kathy doesn't surf anymore. She and Marv walk every day, 509 00:36:10,916 --> 00:36:14,036 Speaker 1: rain or shine, and often they go down to the beach. 510 00:36:14,716 --> 00:36:16,476 Speaker 1: She likes to watch the surfers. 511 00:36:17,716 --> 00:36:19,476 Speaker 3: You know, my husband. I went to the jetty the 512 00:36:19,476 --> 00:36:23,236 Speaker 3: other day and the water was like churning, and it 513 00:36:23,276 --> 00:36:26,436 Speaker 3: was after the rain, and a guy comes in a 514 00:36:26,476 --> 00:36:31,596 Speaker 3: wetsuit by himself, throws his backpack down on the sand 515 00:36:32,516 --> 00:36:37,236 Speaker 3: and heads out to surf, and I was impressed with 516 00:36:37,276 --> 00:36:41,956 Speaker 3: that because that's what it was about. He just went 517 00:36:41,996 --> 00:36:45,236 Speaker 3: out for a ride. I want to ride, and I 518 00:36:45,276 --> 00:36:49,196 Speaker 3: know what I'm doing, and that's you know what surfing 519 00:36:49,236 --> 00:36:51,276 Speaker 3: to me is all about. Am I going to catch 520 00:36:51,276 --> 00:36:52,956 Speaker 3: this one? Or am I going to hang back? Am 521 00:36:52,956 --> 00:36:54,556 Speaker 3: I going to catch it? Am I gonna walk the nose? 522 00:36:54,596 --> 00:36:56,156 Speaker 3: Am I not going to walk the noses? You and 523 00:36:56,236 --> 00:37:01,756 Speaker 3: the element. It's you and the weather and the ocean. 524 00:37:02,916 --> 00:37:05,316 Speaker 2: And a board and a board. 525 00:37:05,396 --> 00:37:07,116 Speaker 3: And you know, it doesn't have to be a fancy 526 00:37:07,156 --> 00:37:10,876 Speaker 3: triple fin board. It can be a longboard, a short board, 527 00:37:10,956 --> 00:37:15,676 Speaker 3: one fin, little rocker, no rocker, but it's you on 528 00:37:15,716 --> 00:37:16,436 Speaker 3: the board in motion. 529 00:37:19,436 --> 00:37:21,716 Speaker 1: What Kathy's saying reminds me of the end of her 530 00:37:21,756 --> 00:37:25,436 Speaker 1: father's novel, where Gidget sees a set rolling in and 531 00:37:25,476 --> 00:37:28,476 Speaker 1: grabs her board and heads for the ocean, leaving a 532 00:37:28,476 --> 00:37:32,316 Speaker 1: lot of drama with the big Kahuna and Moondoggie behind her. 533 00:37:32,796 --> 00:37:36,316 Speaker 1: She cheers herself on. Shoot at Gidget, shoot the curl, 534 00:37:37,436 --> 00:37:38,116 Speaker 1: and she does. 535 00:37:39,716 --> 00:37:40,476 Speaker 2: It's powerful. 536 00:37:40,596 --> 00:37:44,956 Speaker 3: Book, Yeah, it's powerful. So whatever you do, you can 537 00:37:44,996 --> 00:37:48,916 Speaker 3: do it. Maybe that's a broader message, but there's something 538 00:37:48,996 --> 00:37:51,636 Speaker 3: really fun about just getting a wave and peddling out. 539 00:37:52,556 --> 00:37:54,876 Speaker 3: It just leave everything on the sand, you know. 540 00:37:57,196 --> 00:37:59,756 Speaker 1: The last line of the book is, maybe I was 541 00:37:59,956 --> 00:38:02,676 Speaker 1: just a woman in love with a surfboard. It's as 542 00:38:02,676 --> 00:38:08,836 Speaker 1: simple as that. Maybe it's always been that simple. Mickey 543 00:38:08,876 --> 00:38:12,996 Speaker 1: brought so much drama to surfing, and he left a 544 00:38:13,156 --> 00:38:16,156 Speaker 1: stain on the sport that has not yet been expunged. 545 00:38:17,516 --> 00:38:21,836 Speaker 1: Gidget's true contribution to surf culture was overlooked for decades. 546 00:38:22,716 --> 00:38:27,076 Speaker 1: She's not important because she helped make surfing popular. She's 547 00:38:27,116 --> 00:38:33,796 Speaker 1: important because she made surfing accessible. The Ambassador of Aloha says, 548 00:38:34,276 --> 00:38:40,796 Speaker 1: come to the beach. The rightful King wasn't royal, and 549 00:38:40,836 --> 00:38:47,516 Speaker 1: he wasn't right And whatever he once said, Malibu belongs 550 00:38:47,996 --> 00:39:15,796 Speaker 1: to everyone. This was Lost Hills, The Dark Prince. Lost 551 00:39:15,876 --> 00:39:18,636 Speaker 1: Hills the Dark Prince is written and reported by me 552 00:39:18,956 --> 00:39:24,156 Speaker 1: Dana Goodyear. Sabrina Fang is the senior producer. Colin McNulty 553 00:39:24,276 --> 00:39:27,436 Speaker 1: is the showrunner. He also edited the show with Benadere. 554 00:39:28,196 --> 00:39:32,396 Speaker 1: Sarah Deeley is our production assistant. Original composition and sound 555 00:39:32,476 --> 00:39:36,756 Speaker 1: design by Alex McGinnis, Mixing by Alex McGinnis with help 556 00:39:36,796 --> 00:39:41,396 Speaker 1: from Victoria Schifflett. The Lost Hills theme is by Dan Leone. 557 00:39:41,436 --> 00:39:45,476 Speaker 1: Our cover art is by Francesca Gabiani. Benadera and I 558 00:39:45,596 --> 00:39:50,716 Speaker 1: are the creators and executive producers of Lost Hills. Executive 559 00:39:50,756 --> 00:39:55,476 Speaker 1: producers for Pushkin Industries are Jacob Weisberg, Letama Laude, Jacob 560 00:39:55,516 --> 00:40:00,836 Speaker 1: Smith and Sophie Crane. Fact checking by Arthur Gomperts and 561 00:40:00,916 --> 00:40:05,636 Speaker 1: thanks to the Pushkin team. Farah Digrunge, Jake Flanagan, Heather Fain, 562 00:40:06,076 --> 00:40:11,916 Speaker 1: John Schnars, Greta Cone, Carly mcglei, Eric Sandler, Morgan Ratner, 563 00:40:12,316 --> 00:40:19,476 Speaker 1: Isabella Navarrez, Jordan McMillan, Sean Karney, Roystonbserve, Nicole Optenbosch, Maya 564 00:40:19,556 --> 00:40:24,036 Speaker 1: Kanik and Daniella la Con. Lost Hills is a production 565 00:40:24,156 --> 00:40:27,996 Speaker 1: of Westernsound and Pushkin Industries. You can sign up for 566 00:40:28,036 --> 00:40:33,636 Speaker 1: Westernsounds newsletter at Westerndashsound dot com. Pushkin's newsletter is at 567 00:40:33,636 --> 00:40:39,236 Speaker 1: Pushkin dot fm. 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