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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent

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Speaker 2: coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody,

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Speaker 2: Happy Thursday. We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 2: What do we have, Krystal?

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Speaker 1: Indeed we do. Lots of interesting things happening in the world.

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Speaker 1: Russia Gate is back. I guess I never really left

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Speaker 1: us and it is more deranged than ever.

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Speaker 3: So I show you.

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Speaker 1: The very latest if you don't want to miss this.

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Speaker 1: The callog CEO is now pushing cereal for dinner as

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Speaker 1: a cost saving measure. Doesn't sound great. AI is really

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Speaker 1: going through some things. Chat GPT went off the rails

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Speaker 1: and there's a lot going on. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: what to say about the inability to accurately portrays basic

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Speaker 1: things like a European family. We'll get into all of that.

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Speaker 1: Dems are freaking out about voters voting uncommitted in the

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Speaker 1: upcoming Michigan primary. Top Democrats are really sounding the alarms

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Speaker 1: there over Biden's incredibly unpopular among the Democratic base policy

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Speaker 1: of unconditional support for Israel. Speaking of that, it has

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Speaker 1: been a big week for the US running cover for

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Speaker 1: Israeli atrocities and a United States congressman saying to an

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Speaker 1: activist that we should kill all the children in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even kidding you there. We also have a

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Speaker 1: reporter who is on the ground in the UK for

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Speaker 1: Julie Nosanche's appeal trying to block extradition to the United States,

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Speaker 1: so he is going to give us an update. Looking

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Speaker 1: forward to that. But before we get to any of that,

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Speaker 1: thank you to all of you who have supported us

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Speaker 1: through a premium subscription. It has made all the difference

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Speaker 1: in the world to us, and we have some exciting

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Speaker 1: things coming up for you.

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Speaker 2: That's right. So, as we mentioned, we're going to have

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Speaker 2: a State of the Union live stream on March seventh,

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Speaker 2: and actually, just to tease us a little bit, we've

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Speaker 2: decided up the even a little bit. If you are

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Speaker 2: a premium subscriber, we will have a private live stream

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Speaker 2: during that at one point at which will only be

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Speaker 2: available to them, and we will be taking questions live

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Speaker 2: from the audience. So if you want to be able

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Speaker 2: to participate in that with an exclusive live stream, you

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Speaker 2: can go in and sign up Breaking Points dot com

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Speaker 2: and support us. But with that, let's get to Russiagate,

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Speaker 2: as you said, which is somehow in the last week

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Speaker 2: or so, the bat signal has gone to really revive

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Speaker 2: the what does Russia have on Trump? You may think

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Speaker 2: I'm exaggerating, I truly am not. Here is Jensaki, the

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Speaker 2: former White House Press secretary, now on MSNBC State TV,

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Speaker 2: joined by Nancy Pelosi, the former House Speaker, being asked

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Speaker 2: and floating genuine, deranged conspiracy theories live on television. Here's

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Speaker 2: what they had to say.

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Speaker 4: What do you think we're all wondering this question, Speaker Wilise,

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Speaker 4: What do you think Puttin has on him? I mean,

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Speaker 4: it sure seems like something, as you've said a few times,

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Speaker 4: given that he refuses to criticize him, that he seems

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Speaker 4: to be a fanboy.

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Speaker 3: On him, had the honor of serving in the White House,

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Speaker 3: didn't consider it an honor, didn't consider his oath of

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Speaker 3: office to protect and defend the Constitution, and on this week,

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Speaker 3: speaking out the way he did about Navone shows you

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Speaker 3: that he is person without values. He looks like he's

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Speaker 3: going to be a person without dollars either. But the

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Speaker 3: values are what concern us.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the dollars, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: What he has on them, but I think it's probably financial.

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Speaker 3: I think it's probably financial, either something financially has on

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Speaker 3: or something on the come.

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Speaker 2: What was that at the end there, But listen, something financial.

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Speaker 2: It's like crystal after all of the investigations, the Mueller,

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Speaker 2: the Congress, the what was that whole bank theory, Alpha Bank?

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Speaker 5: Yes, right, server paying after all of.

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Speaker 2: These that we have been subjected to, now over the

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Speaker 2: years seven and a half years or so into the

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Speaker 2: Trump era, this is still alive and well on MSNBC

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Speaker 2: being floated. As you said, probably something financial. I mean,

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Speaker 2: then go ahead and reverse it. It's like it's just

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Speaker 2: is deranged, you know. Whenever people are like I think

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Speaker 2: Biden is being personally paid by China, it's like, listen,

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Speaker 2: you gotta have evidence for stuff that you're going to

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Speaker 2: say now at this point, and frankly, there's probably a

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Speaker 2: better case for that via Hunter than there is for

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Speaker 2: any of this, just because this has been investigated ad nauseum.

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Speaker 2: The world's journalist in the world's journalists have all obviously

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Speaker 2: been desperate for it, the world's all of the intelligence services,

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Speaker 2: the US Intelligence Service, if there was even a scrap there,

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Speaker 2: we would know about it by now.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sick of this crap I cannot even tell you.

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Speaker 1: And it's worth remembering. This is also the woman Nancy

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Speaker 1: Pelosi that floated that ceasefire protesters were potentially being paid

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Speaker 1: by Russia or and needed to go back to their

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Speaker 1: handlers in China. I mean, she thinks nothing of floating

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Speaker 1: the most insane and completely baseless conspiracy theories. But because

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Speaker 1: she has so much power and access in Washington when

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Speaker 1: she says it, a lot of gullible people think there

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Speaker 1: must be some there, that she must know something that

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Speaker 1: we don't know. She's just making crap up. Because if

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Speaker 1: she wasn't, is she actually had some evidence of like

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Speaker 1: some financial whatever that they quote unquote have on Trump,

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Speaker 1: she would put it in front of the American people.

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Speaker 1: So that's number one. Number two, we have now lived

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Speaker 1: through a Trump administration and we know what his policy

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Speaker 1: was Vza VI Russia and Visa v Ukraine. And while

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Speaker 1: yes he would say some sort of weird fawning things

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Speaker 1: about Putin as he still does, and yes he was

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Speaker 1: critical of NATO before he became president, the reality is

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Speaker 1: when he actually governed, he was very hawkish towards Russia,

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Speaker 1: more so than Barack Obama had been. NATO expanded. The

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Speaker 1: bulk of his critique about NATO still is pushing for

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Speaker 1: Europeans to pay more, which means NATO would be actually

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Speaker 1: better funded for the future. So the reality of what

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Speaker 1: the policy was does not at all match up with

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Speaker 1: these continued elaborate Russia Gate conspiracies. And finally, the thing

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Speaker 1: that really pisses me off about this too is that

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Speaker 1: it distracts from actually the much more credible and much

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Speaker 1: more real Trump corruption, like the connections with Saudi Arabia.

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Speaker 1: You know, the money he's taken from Live Gulf as

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Speaker 1: a primary example, all the money he got through his

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Speaker 1: hotel chains. Instead of focusing on something that is real

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Speaker 1: and proven, they instead go with this thing that is baseless,

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Speaker 1: and then that makes it easier for Trump to dismiss

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Speaker 1: all of their critiques as ridiculous, a witch hunt a conspiracy, etc. Etc.

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Speaker 1: And this has screwed up our foreign policy. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the level of Russia derangement that came out of the

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Speaker 1: original Russia Gate moment is something that we are still

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Speaker 1: living through and coping with and has confused the American

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Speaker 1: people about what our foreign policy priorities and reality should

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Speaker 1: actually be.

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Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely right. There's no way that our policy in

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Speaker 2: Ukraine would be as deranged as it is without Russia Gate.

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Speaker 2: I'm absolutely convinced of that. It probably instigated at least

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Speaker 2: parts of the war itself in terms of not forcing

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Speaker 2: Trump he's a grown man, but at least for him

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Speaker 2: trying to appear tough by shipping all these weapons to Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: and all of that in the first place, then adopted

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Speaker 2: and pushed even further by the Biden administration. And just

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Speaker 2: so you know, this is not just Nancy Pelos, we

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Speaker 2: have two other instances that we can show you. Here

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Speaker 2: is Representative Dan Goldman, the Democrat, heir to the Levi

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Speaker 2: Strauss fortune, now making the same case, not even about Trump,

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Speaker 2: but about the entire Republican caucus. Here's what he has

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Speaker 2: to say.

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Speaker 6: Not only is there no evidence of any wrongdoing by

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Speaker 6: President Biden. But it now appears as if the House

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Speaker 6: Republican majority is being used by Russia to interfere in

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Speaker 6: the twenty twenty four election on behalf of Donald Trump.

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Speaker 6: If they continue with this investigation, they are simply doing

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Speaker 6: the work of Vladimir Putin to help Donald Trump win

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Speaker 6: an election in November.

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Speaker 2: That's where we are. What he's getting at there, Crystal

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Speaker 2: is we'll get to this in a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: about the indicted FBI in format, But you know, you

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Speaker 2: made a good point the last time we talked about this.

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Speaker 2: You could make the exact same case about the Steele

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Speaker 2: dossier and for all of the Russian connections that were

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Speaker 2: included in that and Christopher Steele and all the other nonsense.

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Speaker 2: Did you not then you know, fall prey to a

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Speaker 2: foreign intelligence basically yes, And you know, gaslight the American people.

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Speaker 2: That's why, you know, all of these accusations do a loyalty, treason,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. They need to be founded in like actual evidence,

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Speaker 2: not just thrown about willy nilly. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: think a perfect point is, Look, the American people have

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Speaker 2: had their say on what they think about Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: and the Republicans and what actually pisses them off about it.

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Speaker 2: Number one, abortion, You guys led your show yesterday with

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Speaker 2: that Alabama Supreme Court that is fifteen to twenty thousand

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Speaker 2: times more important for the election than any of this nonsense.

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Speaker 2: But that's why it is a brain worm. This is

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Speaker 2: a mental disease that these people suffer from. They would

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Speaker 2: rather talk about that than or about this than they

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Speaker 2: would about Alabama abortion, stop the steal, any of the

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Speaker 2: things that most Americans are genuinely pissed off about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Trump, I think they actually believe it. I think

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Speaker 1: they actually have like drank the kool aid like people.

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Speaker 1: Not Pelosi. Pelosi is just like a genuinely nefarious actor

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Speaker 1: who will make up anything that she thinks serves her

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Speaker 1: in the moment and for political ends. Just see you

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Speaker 1: know what she did to Diane Feinstein there end if

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Speaker 1: you want to know anything about that woman and her

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Speaker 1: moral character. But I think a lot of these people,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of the MSNBC hosts, I think they

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Speaker 1: really believe this stuff because they sort of had to

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Speaker 1: have this commitment to it over so many years.

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Speaker 5: And you know, when you really need.

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Speaker 1: To believe something for your job, lo and behold it

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Speaker 1: becomes much easier to actually convince yourself of those things

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Speaker 1: than to you know, hold the space for just like

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Speaker 1: I'm going to out and outlie to the American people,

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Speaker 1: it's a more comfortable place for them to sit. So

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Speaker 1: I think they've been convinced of the most insane and

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Speaker 1: elaborate conspiracy theories. I don't think they really took in

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Speaker 1: any of the evidence of you know, the problems of

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Speaker 1: the Steel dossier, or hey, by the way, what happened

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Speaker 1: to the p tape with Donald Trump that was supposedly

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Speaker 1: out there. I mean, they just never really took in

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Speaker 1: that so much of this, the most far reaching conspiracies

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Speaker 1: had been completely debunked. And I want to say, like,

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Speaker 1: none of this is to cover for Putin to cape

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Speaker 1: for him to say this is a good guy or

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Speaker 1: he's a good actor, we should trust him. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is a man who, as you know, Navalney's like

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Speaker 1: death is on his hands. And you know, whether you

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Speaker 1: love Navalney or had issues with him or not, he's

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Speaker 1: a political prisoner who is now dead. Like that is

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Speaker 1: not a thing to accept or to cover for, or

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Speaker 1: to say, is you know good in any way? Is

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Speaker 1: Russia interested in like quote unquote meddling in our elections

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Speaker 1: and screwing with us. Sure, so are a lot of countries.

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Speaker 1: We do the same shit all around the world, by

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Speaker 1: the way.

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Speaker 2: And probably successfully, yeah, and more.

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Speaker 1: Successfully, and to probably a much greater degree than Russia

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Speaker 1: at this point good even dream of. So none of

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Speaker 1: this is to say like Russia is great and everything

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Speaker 1: they do is wonderful. No. I think that the invasion

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Speaker 1: of Ukraine was illegal. I think it was horrendous. I

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Speaker 1: think that they are responsible for starting this war. Now

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Speaker 1: we are responsible in a lot of ways for continuing

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Speaker 1: that war, for creating the context that led to that war.

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Speaker 1: All of those things do not absolve us either. But

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Speaker 1: you can have a realistic view of your adversaries without

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Speaker 1: delving into elaborate conspiracies that do nothing but confuse and

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Speaker 1: lead us away from pursuing what is in our interest,

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Speaker 1: in Ukraine's interests, in global interest.

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Speaker 2: And speaking of realistic view, it might help to not

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Speaker 2: confuse the current Russian regime with communists. Apparently that's not

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Speaker 2: something that MSNBC's Morning Joe is capable of. Here's what

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Speaker 2: he had to say.

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Speaker 7: The message that she is getting right now from Mike

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Speaker 7: little Mike Johnson and Donald Trump.

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Speaker 2: It's just devastating.

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Speaker 7: And the message is this Republicans, who for the past

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Speaker 7: fifty years have been the main force to push back

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Speaker 7: hard on communism, They've surrendered to the communists.

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Speaker 2: They've surrendered.

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Speaker 7: Mike Johnson surrendered to the communists, to the ex communists,

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Speaker 7: to the wanna be communists. Mike Johnson surrendered. Donald Trump

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Speaker 7: surrendered a long time ago to Vladimir Putin, surrendered to

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Speaker 7: she a long time ago. He has nothing but praise

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Speaker 7: for She, for Kim john Un these communist leaders, Mika,

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Speaker 7: and that is a message that she is receiving loud

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Speaker 7: and clear, that it's not just Donald Trump now it

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Speaker 7: is the Republican Party. What's the bulwark against communist aggression.

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Speaker 7: It is the Republican Party, Ronald Reagan's old party that

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Speaker 7: is now collapsed.

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Speaker 8: It's completely gone. And this is a terrifying inflection point.

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Speaker 1: It is.

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Speaker 8: And for anybody who doesn't take it seriously or think

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Speaker 8: the election doesn't matter, or says, oh, he's not serious,

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Speaker 8: you're out of your mind.

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Speaker 2: You're out of your mind if you confuse communism with

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Speaker 2: the Putin regime, who himself is probably one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest critics of the Soviet Union. That's the great irony

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Speaker 2: of the entire thing. It's just like, dude, what are

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Speaker 2: we doing here? And also, you know, yeah, Reagan was

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Speaker 2: anti communist in the eighties. It's been a long time

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Speaker 2: since that happened. It's this literally hasn't even occurred in

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Speaker 2: my lifetime, and yet it's still somehow, you know, on

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Speaker 2: the cable news here, and it just demonstrates to people,

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Speaker 2: you know, you're anti intellectualism that is all wrapped up

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Speaker 2: in their prestige, but which is fundamentally just you know, collapses.

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Speaker 2: You articulate a very nuanced position about Russia. I basically

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Speaker 2: agree with everything you said. It's like, yeah, Putin is

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Speaker 2: a bad guy, Okay, you know, there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: bad people on earth. That doesn't mean that you could

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Speaker 2: sit there just because you don't want to like kill them,

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Speaker 2: take them out of the office, and put regime change

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Speaker 2: that you co sign that behavior. That's right, But it's

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Speaker 2: we're incapable of nuance here. Something that actually, if you

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Speaker 2: go back and you look at the Cold War, there

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Speaker 2: were often many times where you had to make a

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Speaker 2: decision between balancing risks of nuclear war and quote unquote

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Speaker 2: doing the moral thing to deal with real world constraints,

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Speaker 2: which these people are completely unable to do, which is really,

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Speaker 2: frankly just its downstream of how much privilege that they

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Speaker 2: really have and the US and how much little danger

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Speaker 2: we've actually been in now for quite some time. Let's

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Speaker 2: put the final thing up here on the screen, just

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Speaker 2: to give people a taste of where all of this

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Speaker 2: is coming from. It says that the man a Cubs

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Speaker 2: last week we did an entire segment about this in

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Speaker 2: our earlier show, says he was delivering quote false allegations

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Speaker 2: to federal investigators about Hunter Biden. He told officials about

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Speaker 2: his arrest that individuals quote associated with Russian intelligence. We're

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Speaker 2: tied to apparent efforts to pedal a story about the

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Speaker 2: first son. The federal prosecutors revealed. So, according to them,

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Speaker 2: the guy who was caught lying to the FBI and

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Speaker 2: to federal prosecutors about an alleged bribe, a ten million

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Speaker 2: dollar bribe from the Ukrainian government to the to the

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Speaker 2: Biden family was somehow connected to Russian intelligence. Number one.

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Speaker 2: We're you know, we're talking taking the word here of

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Speaker 2: a person who's admitting here lying in terms of his

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Speaker 2: in terms of he said second, okay, like you said,

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Speaker 2: that's probably true. Maybe it's true, but it's one of

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Speaker 2: those where does that mean it's a direct like Russian

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Speaker 2: effort to influence the election or are they just just

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Speaker 2: creating chaos, you know, to created in the same way

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Speaker 2: that they have done far before the Biden minstrass, Russia

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Speaker 2: Gate and all of that. And you know, I even think, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's bad. You know, you can be okay, this is

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Speaker 2: very bad. Is this like some sort of grand, big

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Speaker 2: plan to try and shape and change the election? Nobody

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Speaker 2: with the brain actually believes that, unless you know you're

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Speaker 2: one of these people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it goes back to twenty sixteen and the

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Speaker 1: fact that yeah, there was a Russian influence operation that

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Speaker 1: was you know, putting up these like cringe weird Bernie

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Speaker 1: Sanders means, you know, like like pushing these Donald pro

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump Facebook groups with like terrible broken English. It's

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Speaker 1: not that these things don't exist, But think about our

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Speaker 1: presidential campaigns.

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Speaker 5: Think about how much money.

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Speaker 1: Like billions of dollars that are going to be spent

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Speaker 1: trying to manipulate and shape and convince the electorate. And

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Speaker 1: even with that much money spent and so much over propaganda,

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Speaker 1: it is so difficult to shift what people's views are

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Speaker 1: and move them in one direction or another. So we

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Speaker 1: understand that when it comes to actual campaigns that are

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Speaker 1: being but somehow we think like a Russian Facebook group

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Speaker 1: is so it's suddenly going to like flip a switch

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Speaker 1: in the electorate and throw it to one side or

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Speaker 1: to the other side, And it's just, you know, it

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Speaker 1: freaks people out in a way that we should be

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Speaker 1: more realistic about. So do the Russians have some interest in,

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Speaker 1: you know, who was the next president of the United States?

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Speaker 1: Putin says he.

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Speaker 5: Prefers Joe Biden. Actually do I believe him?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, but that's.

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Speaker 1: What he says. But you know, do they have one

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Speaker 1: preference or another?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Do they, you know, have some sort of operation to

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Speaker 1: try to influence that outcome as best they can?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Should we be terrified by that? Should we take this

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Speaker 1: piece of information which we don't even one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: know is true and then can cock from that and

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Speaker 1: elaborate conspiracy theory? Manchurian candidate, they must have something on Trump,

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Speaker 1: and they're just like, we're just you know, puppets on

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Speaker 1: a string dancing to Putin's tune. No, no, that's not reality.

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Speaker 1: It's just as preposterous as imagining that some Facebook book

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Speaker 1: memes back in twenty sixteen, or the reason that Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump got elected in the first place. So everybody relaxed,

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Speaker 1: It's okay, We're going to be fine in terms of,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Russian influence operation, and just take it

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Speaker 1: for what it is. It's not that it's not concerning,

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Speaker 1: it's not that it's something that we should just like

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Speaker 1: ignore and push to the side. But is this one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent dictating our politics? And it's a red alarm alert,

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Speaker 1: and it proves the most deranged conspiracy theories. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're going back to the Hunter laptop now and saying

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Speaker 1: this is proof that the Hunter laptop was in fact

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Speaker 1: a Russian influence operation, and all those Intel officials instead

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Speaker 1: of bears the hallmarks of a Russian operation and then

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Speaker 1: had to like apologize for it that actually they've been

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Speaker 1: proven right, So just don't take it for more than

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Speaker 1: what it is.

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Speaker 2: Is all I would say, let's move on to the

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Speaker 2: next part here, because this is equally part of the

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Speaker 2: whole Russia op. Let's put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: This has become the latest cause US Warren's allies, Russia

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Speaker 2: could put a nuclear weapon into orbit this year. The

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Speaker 2: American assessments are divided. President Vladimir Putin denied having such intention,

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Speaker 2: saying that Russia was category quiteigorically against it. It would

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Speaker 2: be against one of the treaties that we've all signed

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Speaker 2: with respect to space, not necessarily meaning that they wouldn't

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Speaker 2: do it. But the reason why I think that this

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Speaker 2: is important is this is all traced back to the

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Speaker 2: congressman who ignited a you know, domestic fervor when he said, Crystal,

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Speaker 2: there is a dangerous intelligence that needs to be declassified

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Speaker 2: and made known to the American people. At the exact

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Speaker 2: same time that there was a huge push in the

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Speaker 2: House of Representatives to reauthorize FAIZA and spying powers by

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Speaker 2: the National Security Agency and lo and behold. Ever since

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Speaker 2: that leak, now the space nuke has become like the

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Speaker 2: latest reason why we all have to be terrified. We

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Speaker 2: need to get into an arms race. And what nobody

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Speaker 2: ever declines to tell you is this number one. Even

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Speaker 2: if the alleged device is real, and if it is,

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Speaker 2: you know, ever or launch it is not capable of

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Speaker 2: like launching from space to the Earth. It is specifically

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Speaker 2: an anti satellite weapon. Now, let me again clue everybody

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Speaker 2: into this, as everything in space is quote unquote dual use.

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Speaker 2: If you have a satellite, for example, that you can

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Speaker 2: course correct, let's say you know this way or that way,

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Speaker 2: you also technically have a satellite which you could course

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Speaker 2: correct into another satellite if you want to. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter if it's a nuke or not. All of us,

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Speaker 2: the Chinese, Russians, Americans, even the commercial space companies, we

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Speaker 2: have the capability to screw each other's calms up if

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Speaker 2: we want. In a lot of ways. It's mutually to

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Speaker 2: shirt destruction, because if we do it to them, then

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Speaker 2: they might do it to us. This does not really

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Speaker 2: change any strategic position in space at all. That's number

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Speaker 2: one from an actual space point of view. Two, it

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Speaker 2: is so obviously an effort in recent days to gin

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Speaker 2: up even more like being terrified of Russia as some

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Speaker 2: sort of military power where and this is where again

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Speaker 2: I can't square it. On the one hand, we're supposed

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Speaker 2: to support Ukraine like this Pitoley army, which is literally

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Speaker 2: incapable of producing its own bullets because the Russians are

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Speaker 2: so weak and they're able, they're going to crush them

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Speaker 2: and moving past their borders. And then on the other

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Speaker 2: it's the new Soviet Union. It's nineteen fifty six or whatever.

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Speaker 2: We have Sputnik and we need all this on. It's listen,

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Speaker 2: you're being propagandized, like nobody's being honest with you about

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Speaker 2: what actual real threats or any of that look like.

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Speaker 2: And yet you know, here we are, and you got

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Speaker 2: the New York Times. That's a front page of the

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Speaker 2: New York Times, just so everybody knows. And the national

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Speaker 2: security people are freaking out about this. They're jinning up

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Speaker 2: why we need more weapons, Why you know, somehow we

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Speaker 2: can defeat the space nuke if we defeat Putin in Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: It's like they're shameless, yeah, you know in the way

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Speaker 2: that they do this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and they wanted, you know, to use this not

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Speaker 1: only to scare people into okay, we got to, I

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Speaker 1: guess ship the Ukraine funding, but also we need to

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Speaker 1: reauthorize warn't less surveillance on Americans. That's the sort of

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Speaker 1: use that this fear is intended to be put towards.

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Speaker 1: So you are being manipulated. I mean, the syaps around

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Speaker 1: Russia are so much more powerful with the American public

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Speaker 1: than the actual Russian influence operations are. And also, to

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Speaker 1: be to be clear about this potential capability, even American

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Speaker 1: intel agencies that we're talking in the New York Times

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Speaker 1: were very split and divided on the reality of what

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Speaker 1: is going on here. There's also a reality that you know,

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Speaker 1: if Russia was theoretically to use some space nuke, that

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Speaker 1: they would likely be taking out their own satellites in

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Speaker 1: addition to our satellites. So in any case, it's it

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Speaker 1: sounds very very scary, Like if you say Russian space nuke,

436
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: that sounds terrifying. The reality is a lot is you know,

437
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: not something to say like okay, we can just handwave

438
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 1: away and it's no concern whatsoever. But it isn't categorically

439
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 1: different than the current status quo reality. So you know,

440
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: again take these things in context of what they actually

441
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 1: mean and also what they're being pushed to the public

442
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: in order to try to compel you to accept. You know,

443
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: anytime a politician really pushing fear the way that these

444
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,120
Speaker 1: you know, national security hawks on the Republican side in particular,

445
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 1: in Congress, we're pushing you need to ask what their

446
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,680
Speaker 1: goal is and what they're trying to get you to swallow.

447
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the thing. Nobody's honest with you about space.

448
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: Like I just said, we already have the capability to

449
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 2: all destroy each other satellites we want to. America has

450
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 2: a program called, which is actually pretty cool, call the

451
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 2: X thirty seven B, which is like a robotic spacecraft.

452
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: It just flies around up there. It's been flying around

453
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 2: on the fore we none of us have any idea

454
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 2: what it does. It drives the Chinese and the Russians nuts,

455
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 2: so it's not like all of us aren't doing the

456
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 2: exact same thing. And it fits also into a broader

457
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 2: program where we're just supposed to accept, you know, the

458
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 2: established policy response from Washington with no question. Put this

459
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 2: up there. The latest one President Biden, after he said

460
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 2: that there would quote be devastating sanctions if Navalney died,

461
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 2: is now saying that he will pit Russia quote with

462
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 2: major sanctions in response to the death of Navalney. Now

463
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: here's the thing. It says the new sanctions are designed

464
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 2: to hold Russia accountable for what happened to Miss navalney,

465
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: as well as all of its actions over the course

466
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: of this vicious and brutal war. Here's the issue. We've

467
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 2: already sanctioned this economy to hell. There's like not a

468
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: living Russian who's even connected to the government that can

469
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 2: set foot in the West now at this point access

470
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: a bank account. You know, you can't sell them weapons

471
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 2: or anything. What else are we supposed to do? You know,

472
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: in terms of our sanctions and how well have they worked,

473
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,680
Speaker 2: Russian war material is an all time high. They're buying

474
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 2: as many things as they want from the North Koreans,

475
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 2: the Chinese, and the Indians are floating their a totll economy,

476
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: clearly saying sanctioning them is actually frankly just made them

477
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: more self sufficient away from the entire Western system. So

478
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 2: it just belies the question of do we just do

479
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,639
Speaker 2: these things to make us feel better? Because I'm pretty

480
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 2: sure that's the answer.

481
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, correct, I mean, what is this doing.

482
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: That's like all of our foreign policy at this point,

483
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 1: Like why are we hitting the houthies. It's not like

484
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 1: we think that it's going to change the status quo.

485
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: We know that the problem is all because of Israel's

486
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: sold on Gaza. But yeah, we do them to say

487
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: that we did something, you know, I mean it, we

488
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 1: acknowledg there's no military solution to Hama. What the hell

489
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: are we doing then? What are we supporting? But it

490
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: again is just like you know, the sort of k

491
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: fave and it's the same thing here. Russia is already

492
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: you know, one of the most sanctioned countries in history,

493
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: and they not to say it hasn't had any impact,

494
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 1: but they had the ability to plan to be sanctioned

495
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 1: in the future because they've been sanctioned in the past

496
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: and prepare for it. And their economy is actually doing

497
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 1: much better at this point than Israel's economy, to use

498
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: another example. So most likely these sanctions will probably rather

499
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: than targeting the you know, oligarchic elites in Russia, they

500
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 1: will very likely be the because you know, the oligarchic

501
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: elites are already heavily sanctioned. These are probably going to

502
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 1: be the sort of things that hurt ordinary Russians who

503
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,639
Speaker 1: you know, have nothing to do with an autocratic leader

504
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: and his prerogatives and priorities. And just you know, the

505
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: last thing that I have to point out about Navalni

506
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,919
Speaker 1: because we're covering Juliana Sanche's you know, continued extradition appeal.

507
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 5: Going on in the UK.

508
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: Julian Assange is in very poor health. He's been so

509
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: weak that he was unable to participate in these hearings

510
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: even remotely, even by zoom. So you know, his family

511
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,879
Speaker 1: has been telling us for a long time now that

512
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: his life is truly in jeopardy and on the line

513
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: directly because at this point of the Biden administration started

514
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 1: under the Trump administration, but now the continuation commitment of

515
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: the Biden administration to prosecute this man because he revealed

516
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,399
Speaker 1: the secrets of American elites and embarrassed them and was

517
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 1: in many ways and you know, a dissenting and oppositional figure.

518
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 1: It's not that different from these circumstances surrounding Navaldi's death.

519
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 1: So there is so much hypocrisy too with regard to

520
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: the Biden administration and their purported commitment to freedom of

521
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: the press and not jailing, you know, persecuting political opponents,

522
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 1: et cetera. So I just wanted to make that notice. Well,

523
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: while we're thinking about sanctions and vaulting here you.

524
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,719
Speaker 2: Should and unfortunately it's something that putin throws in our

525
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: face also every time absolutely that it gets Okay, let's

526
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: move on to the economy. There were some major news

527
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: that happened just yesterday that it wanted to give some

528
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,359
Speaker 2: points to. Let's put this up there on the screen

529
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: because it's absolutely fascinating. Nvidia has now reported fourth quarter

530
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 2: results that have topped Wall Street expectations at the top

531
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: and the bottom line. The chip giant has reported a

532
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: stunning adjusted earning per share of five point five dollars

533
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 2: and sixteen cents. But the more important thing is that

534
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: their revenue was twenty two billion dollars this quarter compared

535
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: to estimates of twenty point four billion. That is the

536
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: data center revenue specifically that has topped all of their expectations.

537
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 2: Their CEO, Jensen Wong, says that accelerated computing and generative

538
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 2: BAYI have hit the tipping point and demand is surging

539
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 2: worldwide across companies, industries, and nations. The reason why all

540
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: eyes were on the Nvidia earning reports Crystal I was

541
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: kind of telling you about this before they came out yesterday,

542
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 2: that Nvidia at this point has become so dramatically valued

543
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 2: in the S and P five hundred that basically the

544
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: hopes of the US tech sector. And it's not an exaggeration.

545
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: A huge portion of index funds and thus all four

546
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 2: oh one k's retirement accounts for the vast majority of

547
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: people are writing in some ways on this one stock

548
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: and the stock itself for the earnings of this company.

549
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: We're talking about something that has seen like orders of

550
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: magnitude exponential growth in just the last decade, and it

551
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: is blied by the fact that they make the infrastructure,

552
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 2: the chips that are what many of these large AI

553
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 2: companies are then using to power their data centers and others.

554
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: So their earnings and their ability to generate revenue and

555
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 2: to continue that increase is kind of a bet on

556
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: AI as a backstone, as a backdrop of the US

557
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: economy and the changing nature of where a lot of

558
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: capital and other things are flowing. So it is a

559
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: bright spot if you are a stockholder, but it is

560
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 2: also indicative of how much money continues to flow into

561
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 2: AI and why, you know, as we cover all of

562
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: the social changes that happen as a result, there's no

563
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: there's no stopping it. And I think the CEO is

564
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: definitely correct, like it is a tipping point in that

565
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: you know, this is one of the most powerful, one

566
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: of the most powerful valuable companies now on Earth that

567
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it was virtually unheard of ten years ago,

568
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: but it was not even close to the power of Google, Facebook,

569
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 2: Microsoft and all that that it is now. I mean

570
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: it's now valued up near like Exon in terms of

571
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: in terms of a company that almost frankly almost came

572
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: out of nowhere. And so it shows us like where

573
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: the power in the US economy is going.

574
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: So according to CNN, Nvidia makes up seventy percent of

575
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: AI semiconductor sales, to show you how dominant they are

576
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: in the industry and how critical they are to it.

577
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: And I guess, Sager my understanding was part of why

578
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: people were watching closely to see this earnings report was

579
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: basically to get a sense of whether the AI boom

580
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: is real or if just as like a bubble that's

581
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: sort of you know, been over hyped and eminently about

582
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: to bust. And also to see whether the Biden administration's

583
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: restrictions on exports of chip sales to China, whether that

584
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 1: had significantly curbed in video's growth.

585
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 5: And I guess the answer is not so much.

586
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 9: It did not.

587
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean everything that we're able to see here,

588
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: I'll give everybody example. So in twenty twelve, the annual

589
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 2: revenue for Nvidia was three point nine billion. In twenty

590
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: twenty four, it will be sixty point nine billion. Last

591
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: year in twenty twenty three they did twenty six billion,

592
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: and then you know if just five seven years ago

593
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen they did nine billion. It's like one

594
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: of the most insane rises in revenue for a US company,

595
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: or yeah, for a US company. I believe. They're headquartered

596
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 2: in Santa Clara, ever, and it's one of those where

597
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 2: it has come to now encompassed so much of the

598
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: S and P five hundred of the tech sector as

599
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: kind of an indicator of where all these things are going.

600
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: And honestly, kind of I find it kind of exciting,

601
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 2: you know, to have a company like this just come out.

602
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: We're so used to the Googles, the facebooks, the Exxon's,

603
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: Microsoft and all of that, that all of a sudden,

604
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 2: out of nowhere, you have this freaking, you know, insane

605
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 2: company with all this productivity, This new CEO the back

606
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: he's like holding the back of the US economy, you know,

607
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 2: on top of him. But also do you want to

608
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: caution everybody that you know, the gains and the wealth

609
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 2: that is all being generated here is pretty highly concentrated

610
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 2: only in tech and the better, honestly, the better that

611
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 2: they do, the more we need to watch for the

612
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: social implications of white collar work that gets cut off,

613
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 2: and you know, whatever the in terms of lawyers and

614
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: all the other industries of which this is set to disrupt,

615
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 2: Like this is the backbone the chips that are going

616
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: to power much of the software revolution that will come

617
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: on the back.

618
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: I was just gonna raise those concerns because you had

619
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: an announcement two days ago that Google, in spite of

620
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: earning record profits, is still laying off thousands of employees

621
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: twelve thousands more employees after already laying off twelve thousand,

622
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: and so that shows you the way that this is

623
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: further concentrating wealth in the hands of a very few people.

624
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 1: So you know, even the companies that are most directly

625
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: participating and most directly benefiting from this AI boom, I

626
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: mean some ways, they're also the ones that are first

627
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: to shed employees because of the gains and the technological

628
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: advances that are being made here. With AI, So I

629
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: am really concerned about that. I think you can already

630
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: see those developments happening right now in real time. So

631
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: it's great for you know, people who have stockhold significant stockholding.

632
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: It's great for people who are at the top of

633
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: these companies who don't feel like their jobs are at risk.

634
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: But for a lot of white collar workers, I'm sure

635
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: they should and probably are looking on at these developments

636
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: with a lot of concern. And we're going to about

637
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: to talk more about AI and what the ELL's going

638
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 1: on there, because there are a lot of other concerns

639
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: obviously about the development of AI and whether we as

640
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: a society and as humanity are ready for and certainly

641
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,840
Speaker 1: whether our political system is ready for, to which the

642
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: answer is certainly no.

643
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: We may have great chip, but if the programmers aren't good,

644
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: as we'll show you with Google, there's not a lot

645
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 2: you can do. Let's go to the next part here,

646
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 2: because this is like the perfect thing as S and

647
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: P five hundred pops. As the tech sector continues to

648
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: boom and video earnings and all of that, there is

649
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: a huge crisis for our food affordability here in the

650
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 2: United States, best exemplified by the CEO of Kellogg, who

651
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: is now pushing cereal for dinner as a way for

652
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: cast strap families to feed themselves as they struggle in

653
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 2: paying for the grocery store. Here's what he had to say.

654
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 10: The cereal category has always been quite affordable and it

655
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 10: tends to be a great destination when consumers are under pressure.

656
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 10: So some of the things that we're doing is first messaging,

657
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 10: we've got to reach the consumer where they are, so

658
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 10: we're advertising about cereal for dinner. If you think about

659
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 10: the cost of cereal for a family versus what they

660
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 10: might otherwise do, that's going to be much more affordable.

661
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 10: The other places that we like to go is we

662
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 10: talk about making sure we have the right pack, the

663
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 10: right price in the right place. So having a different

664
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 10: size pack that'll have a different price point that'll take

665
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 10: some pressure off the consumer while they're shopping. So those

666
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 10: are some of the things that we're doing. But in general,

667
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 10: the cereal category is a place that a lot of

668
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 10: folks might come to because the price of a bowl

669
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 10: of cereal with milk and with fruit is less than

670
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 10: a dollar, So you can imagine whey a consumer under

671
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 10: pressure might find that to be a good place to go, right.

672
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 2: I'm all for innovation and marketing. But the idea of

673
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: having cereal for dinner. Is there the potential for that to.

674
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 7: Land the wrong way?

675
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 2: We don't think so.

676
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 10: In fact, it's landing really well right now, Carl. When

677
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 10: we look at all of our data, of course, we

678
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 10: would know that breakfast cereal is the number one choice

679
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 10: for in home consumption.

680
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: We understand that for breakfast.

681
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 10: It turns out that over twenty five percent of our

682
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 10: consumption is outside the breakfast occasion. A lot of it's

683
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 10: at dinner, and that deck occasion continues to grow, as

684
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 10: well as the snacking occasion. But cereal for dinner is

685
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 10: something that is probably more on trend now and we

686
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 10: would expect to continue as that.

687
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: Consumer is under pressure. As that consumer is under pressure,

688
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 2: anyone else catch the palatial Florida arct I could spot

689
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 2: it from a mile away.

690
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: Do you think Gary's given his kids cereal for dinner?

691
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 2: You see them dumping so you see that palm tree

692
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 2: in the background. Yeah, that's what a man who in

693
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 2: the winters fleeing south and has the ability to have

694
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 2: second homes and to have nice little travel of the

695
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: rest of us.

696
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think Gary's eeting fruit loops for dinner.

697
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,360
Speaker 2: Personal He's probably eating a fruit platter, you know that

698
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: as dessert. Let's gohe and put this up there.

699
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: We wonder why we have an obesity crisis and a

700
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,919
Speaker 1: diabetes crisis in those kind.

701
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: Just for me, wanted to know. You don't eat cereal

702
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:33,959
Speaker 2: for dinner.

703
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: I don't even I don't even want my kids eating

704
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: cereal for breakfast.

705
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 2: I agree.

706
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: One of the those horrifying places in the entire grocery

707
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: store is the cereal aisle. When you walk down the

708
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: cereal aisle and you see like cookies in small form

709
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: or like sour patch kids cereal, and like, what the

710
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: what did we do? Where did we go wrong? As

711
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: a country? Well, it makes me absolutely hate capitalism and

712
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: people like this.

713
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:54,800
Speaker 2: Let's put this up there on the screen, just to

714
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: you know, kind of exemplify what he's talking about. Wall

715
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 2: Street Journal has some great charts. The one that we

716
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 2: have right there in front of you for those who

717
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 2: are watching that shows you that the spending share of

718
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 2: disposable income on food is now at a thirty year high.

719
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 2: This is especially important because it encompasses not just groceries,

720
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,840
Speaker 2: but also dining out. As people can see, we've actually

721
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: been on a decade long increase in price of dining out.

722
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: Some of that is derivative of like higher cost options,

723
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 2: but a lot of it also has to do with inputs.

724
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 2: It plunged in twenty twenty as a result of the

725
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 2: COVID pandemic, but quickly spiked to an all time high there.

726
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: You know, even in terms of for dining out, it's

727
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: very very high for groceries. What you could see if

728
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 2: you combine both all food and groceries, you can see

729
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: that we're at the three decade high, and it's taking

730
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: up far more of a percentage of American's income than

731
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: in a very very long time. As they say too, quote,

732
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,800
Speaker 2: relief is not arriving soon. Restaurant and food company executives

733
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 2: are still quote grappling with rising labor costs and some

734
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 2: ingredients that are only getting more expensive, and consumers, they said,

735
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 2: will find ways to cope. If you look at shtorically,

736
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 2: after periods of inflation, there's really no period where you

737
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: can point to where food prices go back down. They

738
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: tend to be sticky, meaning this is here and it

739
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 2: is very here to stay.

740
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: Yes, those ways to cope include best groups.

741
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 2: Well, really, what it is, and this is why it's sad,

742
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: is if you look, it's the people who have disposable income.

743
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: Their consumption patterns have not changed. They're eating the exact

744
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 2: same out at dining, They're the eating the exact same

745
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: things at the grocery store. It is Denny's, Wendy's and

746
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 2: all other restaurants change that are now telling their investors

747
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: that their guest count has fallen precipitously throughout twenty twenty

748
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: two and twenty twenty three. Why because their customers are

749
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 2: the ones who have lower incomes and or for whom

750
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: would you know, the occasional customer or somebody who's going

751
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: to a lower cost option of these type of chain restaurants,

752
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: Their treat quote unquote is now gone. It's been cut

753
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: out of the budget. So if you combine gas and

754
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: cost of living and then grocery price is now replacing that,

755
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: it's just taking a lot of enjoyment. Whatever little enjoyment

756
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 2: was there at the lower end of the cost spectrum

757
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: is going away. And I think that's actually the tragic

758
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: situation people are in New York City. You're going out

759
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: to eat they're mostly fine, you know, at the higher

760
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 2: end of the spectrum. Yes, their prices have increased by

761
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 2: twenty five percent, but if you compare their overall wages

762
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 2: and the disposal income that they have, they're just eating

763
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: the cost. It's the people who can't afford to eat

764
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: the cost where their quality of life that goes down

765
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 2: significantly when your food price goes up by twenty five

766
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 2: thirty percent.

767
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, some people who are working in those restaurants who

768
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: can no longer afford to, you know, to eat down

769
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: even somewhere modest, like a Wendy's or a Denny's at

770
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: this point. And Jeff Stine actually had a good piece

771
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: a while back. We talked to him a little bit,

772
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: but as a reminder of why grocery prices continue to

773
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: be so high, you can put this up on the screen.

774
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: He really dives in.

775
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 5: Jeff does a great job with this stuff.

776
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: His headline here is inflation has fallen, Why are groceries

777
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: still so expensive.

778
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 5: He's also been visiting.

779
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: Food pantries who across the board are reporting that demand

780
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: for food pantry and food aid is at record highs

781
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: and continues to grow. So there's clearly a lot of

782
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: struggle among the working poor, the working class, and the

783
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: out and out poor that is reflected in those numbers,

784
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: but he trucks. It's a lot of different factors. I

785
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: think what you point in to, Sager the fact that

786
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: you know, when food prices go up, what grocery store

787
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: or what Kellogg's brand CEO is going to say, you

788
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 1: know what I can afford to bring it back down.

789
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: They're not going to do that because they're greedy. They're

790
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 1: just going to eat up the extra profit margin. And

791
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: that is part of what is going on here. There's

792
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: actually a White House Council of Economic Advisors report that

793
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,839
Speaker 1: found that grocery store profit margins are higher than their

794
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: pre pandemic levels. That means they're gouging you. That means

795
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: prices could be lower, but instead of lowering prices for consumers,

796
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: they're just going to keep them where they are because

797
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: they can justify it because prices have been high, and

798
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: they're going to suck up the extra profit.

799
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 5: That's part of it. There have also been so many climate.

800
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: Disasters that have upended a lot of food production, so

801
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: that has factored in. You've continued to have some supply

802
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: chain disruptions even post pandemic. The fallout from that continues

803
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: to reverberate, so that's part of it. So there's a

804
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: lot that goes into it, but one of those pieces

805
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,719
Speaker 1: continues to be effectively green Plati. One of the things

806
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: he points out is a group called the Groundwork Collaborative,

807
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: which is a left leaning think tank. They found that

808
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 1: a lot of the rise and grocery prices, about thirty percent,

809
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: is focused in five categories of food that are particularly

810
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 1: vulnerable to supply chain shocks. That includes beef, chicken, fruits, vegetables,

811
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: and snacks. So a lot of this sort of you know,

812
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:32,919
Speaker 1: the cord like the things you actually want to feed

813
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: your family, not fruit loops, are some of the things

814
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: that have been the most vulnerable to supply chain shocks

815
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 1: and have contributed to continued high prices there. And people

816
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: wonder why people still don't feel great about the economy,

817
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: why they're still struggling, why they're still, you know, giving

818
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: Joe Biden a very low approval rating. I think part

819
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: of it is just because they have no confidence in him.

820
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: Even when things do get better, they have no confidence

821
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: that he had anything to do with it, or that

822
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: he could continue the tend intrajectory, give in his you know,

823
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: his age and his limited capabilities. But in addition, you

824
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: still have numbers like this that show people are really

825
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: struggling even just to be able to feed themselves and

826
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: feed their families, let alone provide any of those like

827
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: little bonus luxuries that make life.

828
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 2: And this is so obvious to me because they're like, Crystal,

829
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: but didn't you know that inflation slowed from nine to

830
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 2: three this quarter. I'm like, guys, that's not how people

831
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: experience inflation. Yeah, go to the grocery store. They're like,

832
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 2: why is this thirty percent more expensive than five years ago?

833
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 2: And then they're like, oh, guess we're not going to

834
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: Deny's on Sunday like we usually used to, you know,

835
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 2: if we meet up after whatever.

836
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 6: I mean.

837
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: And that's one of those where or you know, you

838
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: pack lunch for your kids, or you pack lunch for

839
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: them as you're going on a road trip, even though

840
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 2: in the past you might have been like, maybe we'll

841
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 2: stop somewhere, and that's it's not fun, it's not nice,

842
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 2: you know. It removes a lot of the spontaneity in life.

843
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: People at the higher income spectrum, they are totally capable

844
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: of absorbing that cost people who are not when you

845
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: really have to think, you know, that is what really

846
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: inhibits a lot of the enjoyment for a lot of people.

847
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: And I think that's I think, you know, really devastating

848
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: for people. And it's why you know, they're not just

849
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,840
Speaker 2: going to take these explanations about build back better or whatever. Seriously,

850
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: I don't think they should. Let's put this finally up here,

851
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 2: just show you about again how devastating some of these

852
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: numbers can be. American credit card debt, this is just

853
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 2: from a few days ago, has now hit a record

854
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 2: one point one to three trillion dollar credit card debt

855
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 2: has increased actually by fifty billion just in the fourth

856
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 2: quarter of twenty twenty three. A lot of that is

857
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 2: holiday spending, and they show that it's actually a five

858
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: percent increase just from the previous quarter in the number

859
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: of debt that's been accumulated. The data currently shows that

860
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: you've risen a total of twenty two hundred and twelve

861
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 2: billion just in the fourth quarter of twenty twenty three.

862
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 2: And you know, if you look at the quarterly report

863
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 2: on household debt and credit, Americans are strapped more than

864
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: frankly they ever really have been in the past. The

865
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 2: other issue is that the delinquencies across all age groups,

866
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: people who are unable to pay them or missing payments,

867
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 2: are actually high across all of them. Bar It says

868
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: in particular, between the ages of thirty and thirty nine

869
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 2: are missing their payments at especially fast rates. That's also

870
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: very devastating because those are the exact people who that's

871
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 2: the age when you are supposed to be thinking about

872
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: being able to buy a house, start a family, any

873
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 2: of those, and if you are in a mountain of

874
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: credit card debt, you may put off those decisions. It's

875
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: one of those where it's really sad, you know. Just

876
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 2: to give away some of my trashy television taste, I

877
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 2: was watching one of these episodes of Love's Blind latest season,

878
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 2: and there's.

879
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 5: You and my daughter got me into that show is

880
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 5: really great.

881
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,800
Speaker 2: Shout out to Nick Thompson from season two, who is

882
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 2: a fan of this show. By the way, but there's

883
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 2: a sad conversation that's happening between two I'm not going

884
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 2: to give away too much of it or who they are,

885
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 2: where they're like, well, you know, he's like, I really

886
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: want to retire. I really want to be frugal, you know,

887
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 2: if we have a kid. You know, I'm not so

888
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 2: sure that that's what he's like. He's like obsessed with

889
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 2: the idea of not accidentally having a child in the

890
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,319
Speaker 2: next five years. And he's purely talking about it from

891
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 2: money perspective, because he's like, I grew up in a

892
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 2: very poor household and I was not provided you know, X,

893
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 2: Y and Z, I will not do that. You can

894
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 2: see an emotion. It's causing some relationship tension, and I

895
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 2: was watching him like this is terrible.

896
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 9: You know.

897
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 2: That's one of those where this guy is like frankly

898
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: torpedio ing a relationship because he's so afraid of having

899
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: a child accidentally and not being able to afford it

900
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: because he did not have a good upbringing himself. I mean, look,

901
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: you call it responsible or whatever, but for me, I'm like,

902
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 2: that is just a perfect example of like how these

903
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: macroeconomic conditions have huge impacts on people's lives that they

904
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: may not even connect to something bigger.

905
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it's so true.

906
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: And that sense of precarity, that stress that comes from

907
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: having to count every penny, you know, and really like

908
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 1: to live day to day and dollar to a dollar,

909
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: the way that weighs on your entire life is you know,

910
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 1: it's a very difficult thing. And people are not wrong

911
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 1: to feel like Joe Biden, I mean, he's not even

912
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 1: promising anything in the next what's his economic plan going forward?

913
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 5: He doesn't have one.

914
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: Trump hasn't announced anything any goals, you know, for for

915
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: the next term. Worried to get reelected. So people aren't

916
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: wrong and they're not crazy to feel like even though

917
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: many of the economic numbers have improved, you know, unemployment

918
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: is low, we just are going up. Certainly, the stock

919
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: market is doing just fine, as we were just discussing,

920
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: but that isn't the totality of how people are experiencing

921
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: the economy. And they're not crazy to look at their

922
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 1: day to day reality and say this is not working

923
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: for me, and I don't have hope that it's going

924
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: to work for me or my kids for the future either.

925
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely, right, all right, let's move on. We already tease

926
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 2: this AI. This is the funniest story that we've seen.

927
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: It's so long it electrified the internet. Yesterday. Google has

928
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: had to pause AI made images quote after race inaccuracies.

929
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 2: Let's put this up there on the screen. Let's just

930
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 2: say that the new Gemini AI system is lacking in

931
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: historical accuracy if you ask it to create images of

932
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: frankly mundane things. This was very quickly spotted by the

933
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 2: Internet after it was given basic prompts. So guys, let's

934
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 2: go ahead and give people a taste if we can

935
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,359
Speaker 2: enroll some of these next items. Some of my favorites. Here,

936
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 2: here's a portrait of a founding father of America. It

937
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: shows a Native American, a black George. Actually I don't

938
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: even think that's George Washington because that's actually a red coat.

939
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: So that's a whole other conversation. A racially ambiguous founding

940
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 2: father with a wig, and then a Chinese man also

941
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 2: a dress up from Colonial Times. Christly, you remarked that

942
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 2: this literally looks like Lee Manuel Miranda's like Hamilton cast

943
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 2: and you could not be more correct. The other ones

944
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 2: which are incredible. Here is create an image of a pope.

945
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: It shows a Indian woman actually clad in pople regalia

946
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: than a black man who was similarly donning whatever that

947
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: papal headdress is. That guests more plausible there are, you know,

948
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 2: African cardinals Here here's an image of a Viking shows

949
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 2: two Vikings who are black with dreadlocks. So I'm pretty

950
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: sure that one is not historically accurate. Let's go to

951
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: the next one. This is another pro personal favorite of mine.

952
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 2: It says, depict a European family, and it says, well,

953
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,240
Speaker 2: while I understand your desire to see representations of families,

954
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: I am unable to fulfill your request for depicting a

955
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 2: white family to create inclusive and respectful content. Generating images

956
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 2: based on specific racial or ethnics characteristics can perpetuate harmful

957
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 2: stereotypes and biases. Then you ask, depict a Chinese family,

958
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: it says, sure, here's an image from showing diverse depictions

959
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: of a Chinese family. You know, I guess they're probably

960
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 2: forgetting that China itself has a lot of racial and

961
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 2: ethnic populations. But of course that's not nuanced enough for them.

962
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 2: Let's go to the next one, and let's take a look.

963
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: This one was actually created by our producer Mac and

964
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 2: the prompt I swear to God that he gave was

965
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 2: create a European family. And what it created here is

966
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 2: a white woman who's in a wheelchair, a black man

967
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 2: who is missing, a leg and then a dog who

968
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 2: if we are paying attention here, the dog only has

969
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 2: three legs.

970
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 5: All three of.

971
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 2: These European racial mixed family are also all disabled for

972
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 2: some reason. And just to give everyone an idea of

973
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 2: how much better some of the competitors are. Let's go

974
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 2: to the next one. This is from mid Journey, which

975
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: is a software actually that we use sometimes for our thumbnails,

976
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: which is just far more you know, accurate. It just

977
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: says create a European family.

978
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 6: Here.

979
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,479
Speaker 2: This is a period pieces, you know, showing Eiffel Tower

980
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 2: whatever traditional dress. Probably it looks more like nineteen forties

981
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:48,240
Speaker 2: or early nineteen hundreds visually exactly. Look how much more colorful,

982
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: you know, they don't even try and be like photorealistic

983
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: per se. They look more like portraits. It's just more accurate.

984
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 2: So this is just to demonstrate, like we got a

985
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 2: long way to go. And this is Google. I mean,

986
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,399
Speaker 2: think about how much money Google has poured into their

987
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 2: AI program. And it's hilarious because they had to apologize

988
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: their lead developer for creating these for you know, having

989
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: all of these images go completely viral, you don't really

990
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: get to you know, I mean, sure you will get

991
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 2: a second chance but this is just bad. I think

992
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: they panicked Crystal from the Sora ai release and like

993
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 2: we got to rush something out and they had all

994
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: of this stuff that had been clearly they had some

995
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 2: weird PC stuff programmed in, which is somehow generated the

996
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 2: stupidest results that are known, and now they're apologizing to everybody.

997
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: And how to pull it.

998
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 2: Yeah they pulled it. Yeah, that's a product that's embarrassing that.

999
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 5: It's really interesting.

1000
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 1: I really want to know the backstory here, Yeah, Like

1001
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: I want to know how this happened. And the thing

1002
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: with AI generation though, is that in some ways you

1003
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: never will know because even the creators, you know, they're

1004
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: feeding in all of this information, so it makes the

1005
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: output very unpredictable. But I want to know what, Like,

1006
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:02,879
Speaker 1: you know, how they set the wokeness to eleven here

1007
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: to get you asked for a.

1008
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 5: Pope and you asked for the founding father.

1009
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: It's just it's hilariously absurd and certainly shows the way,

1010
00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 1: as you said Soccer earlier, that you know, the technology

1011
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: is not independent of the ability of the creators and

1012
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,479
Speaker 1: their particular views of the world.

1013
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: So here's some interesting takes I saw from people who

1014
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,959
Speaker 2: actually work in tech, Yeah this happened. Of how something

1015
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 2: like this happened. Paul Graham's kind of like a some

1016
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 2: difficult It's like a godfather of tech. He was one

1017
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 2: of the people who founded y S Y Combinator, invested

1018
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 2: in a lot of the early very successful companies. He says,

1019
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 2: quote the ridiculous images that were generated by Gemini are

1020
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 2: not an anomaly. They are a self portrait of Google's

1021
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,360
Speaker 2: bureaucratic corporate culture. And he points out that the bigger

1022
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: your cash cow, the worst cut your culture can get

1023
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 2: without driving you out of business.

1024
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: My other good maybe they laid off some of those

1025
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: thousands of people. Maybe they needed those folks.

1026
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: So my friend Streram Krishnan, who works over at A

1027
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: sixteen Z, he says this on Google and Gemini, having

1028
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,360
Speaker 2: been art of organizations where there was an implicit progressive

1029
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 2: political leaning, I can see why it would have been

1030
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 2: very hard for anyone to point out the obvious. No

1031
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 2: employee can easily file a bug, as you would have

1032
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: to wade through layers of policy and unspoken but understood

1033
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 2: cultural rules. No one can be the kid from the

1034
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: Emperor's New Clothes, as the kid would probably have been

1035
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 2: instantly thrown into prison or in this case dragged before

1036
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 2: HR or put into a penalty box. That actually does

1037
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 2: kind of make sense where somebody programmed this stuff in

1038
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 2: and didn't actually think about it at scale, and then

1039
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: the programmers were probably too afraid to be like, hey,

1040
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 2: just you know, it's not really creating proper images of

1041
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: white people, and they're like, well, you know, I would

1042
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 2: rather just ship it and let something like this happen,

1043
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 2: and then it becomes like a total controversy. I could

1044
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 2: see something like that. The more likely thing is it's

1045
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 2: a combination of all three bad bureaucratic culture, not enough checks,

1046
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: and just being terrified at being beaten by open AI.

1047
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 2: I think the ope open ai piece is probably the

1048
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: biggest one.

1049
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that they're upset they really tested exactly before.

1050
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 5: They very clearly they did not fully test it.

1051
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,399
Speaker 1: But I mean then some of thing makes some sense

1052
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: to me, because if you're an individual employee of Google,

1053
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: right and you realize this is squarely if this is

1054
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: not going the way it should, you do run a

1055
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 1: risk if you're the one who's like, we got to

1056
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:17,880
Speaker 1: have some white people as founding father.

1057
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,359
Speaker 2: Just like, hey, it's not accurately representing founding fathers, Right,

1058
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 2: why is there a Cherokee guy who is included?

1059
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 1: But there's no risk to you to staying silent if

1060
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 1: you weren't the one that created the problem and all

1061
00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 1: the you know, blowback is going to fall on someone else.

1062
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 1: Then from a just bureaucratic like safety standpoint, your path

1063
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:40,919
Speaker 1: of least resistance is just to keep your mouth shut

1064
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: and be like, well, we'll see all this goes.

1065
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 5: Or maybe they really hated the guy who is going

1066
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 5: to like take the.

1067
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 6: Fall on this.

1068
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: They're like, they're like, wait and let's see if Johnny's

1069
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 1: still the golden boy at Google after this comes out.

1070
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 9: Well.

1071
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why it's also really embarrassing for

1072
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: Google is Larry Page. You know, according to Elon Musk

1073
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: and others and most press reports, the founder of Google

1074
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: former CEO, he's been obsessed with AI for like decades,

1075
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 2: Like he's the a. Google has poured untold billions and

1076
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 2: probably hundreds of billions of dollars into AI development. And

1077
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: something that's actually given me kind of hope is that

1078
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: if you look at Microsoft, Facebook, Google, the big tech

1079
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 2: company Amazon and others, none of them were the innovators

1080
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 2: in AI. It was open Ai. It was a company

1081
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 2: formed in twenty fifteen that came frankly out of nowhere

1082
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: and revolutionized the entire SECD. Now, don't get me wrong.

1083
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 2: You know Microsoft has now bought a Steak or whatever

1084
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 2: and open Ai, so they've co opted it. But yeah,

1085
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 2: the fact is that the real innovation it didn't come

1086
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: out of the big tech houses, and so maybe it's

1087
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 2: because of culture, bureaucracy and all of that. Something like this.

1088
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,560
Speaker 2: I would hope that that's more indicative of the future

1089
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 2: that it will actually come from the startups. And that's

1090
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: kind of what's floating the Nvidia boom and the idea

1091
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 2: kind of why silicon value is having a resurgence right

1092
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 2: now in San Francisco. Is they really believe like the

1093
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 2: next Google, Facebook and all of that really could come

1094
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,400
Speaker 2: and instead not out of the big tech companies themselves.

1095
00:52:57,840 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1096
00:52:58,440 --> 00:52:59,319
Speaker 5: I don't have that hope.

1097
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: I mean, like he's it's already almost over, Like Microsoft

1098
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: already snatched up the open Ai tech. You know, the

1099
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: big tech players are already so established that anything that

1100
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: has any promise at a startup level is just going

1101
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: to get bought up and sucked into one of the

1102
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: existing monopolies with you know, these sorts of results, and

1103
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: I mean these results are just hilarious and silly and

1104
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: of no real consequence.

1105
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 2: Right.

1106
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: The terror is that the other if they are shipping

1107
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,240
Speaker 1: a product that is this manifestly bad in obvious ways,

1108
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: you can be assured that they are not thinking through

1109
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 1: whatsoever the long term societal implications that have potentially much

1110
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 1: more serious ramifications, because you know, their interest is justin

1111
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: how do I make a buck today, how do I

1112
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: stay in front of the competition, how do I spike

1113
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 1: the share price so that I get mine at the

1114
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: end of the day. And that's a terrifying set of incentives.

1115
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: If it can go this wrong on something that's so

1116
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: obvious right in front of your face, just imagine the

1117
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: other things of consequence that they probably already are screwing up.

1118
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're absolutely right, all right, guys.

1119
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: Very interesting moment over on CNN when Chris Wallace reveals

1120
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,439
Speaker 1: that a top Democrat told him they are freaking out

1121
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,400
Speaker 1: about Biden's standing in the critical state of Michigan.

1122
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to that.

1123
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 11: I was talking to a top Michigan Democrat over the

1124
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 11: weekend who said that you know, it's not just Arab Americans.

1125
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,920
Speaker 11: They're young people, they are people of color, blacks and

1126
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 11: Hispanics who have a lot of doubts about Joe Biden.

1127
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 11: And you know where another candidate like Dean Phillips might

1128
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 11: not be able to put on much of a show

1129
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 11: against Biden. This Michigan Democratic official was saying, I'm worried

1130
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 11: about Uncommitted. You know, it's really a vote of no

1131
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,240
Speaker 11: confidence or lack of confidence in Biden. And this official

1132
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 11: was worried that it could do well enough in the

1133
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,840
Speaker 11: primary a week from tomorrow to embarrass Joe Biden.

1134
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 1: So that primary, of course, is coming up next week,

1135
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:04,000
Speaker 1: and Scager, this is something we have covered before. There

1136
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,880
Speaker 1: is now an organized effort, backed by a number of

1137
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 1: Democratic officials, including congress Owan Rashida Talib to, instead of

1138
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: voting for Joe Biden in the primary, to vote Uncommitted,

1139
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 1: specifically to voice dissent over his unconditional support for Israel.

1140
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: And the fear here isn't that you know, Uncommitted is

1141
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:23,760
Speaker 1: going to beat Joe Biden in the state of Michigan

1142
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: in the primary. The fear is that the demonstration of

1143
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: this anti Joe Biden commitment specifically over this policy could

1144
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,400
Speaker 1: really carry over into the general election, and that in

1145
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 1: a lot of senses it may be too late even

1146
00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 1: if they changed policy now to win a lot of

1147
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: these folks back. Now, the suspicion isn't that they're going

1148
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: to you know, switch over and vote, at least not

1149
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 1: in large numbers for Donald trumple if some of them

1150
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,919
Speaker 1: may do that as well, but that they'll either stay

1151
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,319
Speaker 1: home or they'll notch another protest vote in the fall,

1152
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: either for you know, another like write in candidate or

1153
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 1: one of the third party candidates that may be on

1154
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: the ballot. There's actually big New York Times piece this

1155
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 1: morning as well breaking down these concerns, which is like,

1156
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: you know, activists have been warning of this, and people

1157
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 1: on the left have been warning of this from very

1158
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:15,360
Speaker 1: very early on, and the polls immediately reflected a devastating impact,

1159
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 1: especially among Arab Americans in the state of Michigan and elsewhere.

1160
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 1: This was completely ignored and handwaved a way of basically

1161
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: like they'll get over it when they remember it's Donald

1162
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 1: Trump and now they're finally waking up to the reality

1163
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: that this could really be a problem for them.

1164
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, There's been a lot of reporting behind the scenes

1165
00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 2: that Representative Debbie Dingel from Michigan has been really pushing

1166
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,879
Speaker 2: the White House to change course. The reason I would

1167
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 2: take her very seriously is she's the lady who told

1168
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 2: to Hillary in twenty she's like, you're gonna lose Michigan.

1169
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 2: She's like, you're getting creamed. And the Hillary campaign was like,

1170
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 2: you don't know what you're talking about. She was the

1171
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:48,759
Speaker 2: one who was saying you need to cut, like you

1172
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,680
Speaker 2: need to get here now. Like she's like, I promise

1173
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 2: you that you have a big problem on the ground.

1174
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,560
Speaker 2: And you know, given her and partly her husband served

1175
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:58,920
Speaker 2: until it was like eighty something years old. So anyway,

1176
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 2: they've got a lot of ties to the state, and

1177
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 2: I believe them whenever they say that there's a problem. Yeah,

1178
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 2: this isn't just some you know, this is like an

1179
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: activist necessarily with skin in the game. This is just

1180
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 2: a pure political operator who's pushing the White House and

1181
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 2: know like, you don't understand you have a serious problem

1182
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 2: here on the ground. You need to address it. And

1183
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 2: unfor you know, for them, they haven't done anything about it.

1184
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: The mayor of Dearborne, who we interviewed on this show

1185
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 1: also had a New York Times op ed, which, again,

1186
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: you know, this is the paper that people in Washington,

1187
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: DC are obsessed with, So the fact that they publish

1188
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 1: this op ed is really a big deal. We can

1189
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 1: put this up on the screen. He is also making

1190
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: the case to vote uncommitted. He says Dearborn is not

1191
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: alone in calling for a permanent ceasefire, and GAZA pull

1192
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 1: conducted last fall found that sixty six percent of Americans

1193
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: and a whopping eighty percent of Democrats want a ceasefire. However,

1194
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: the president or elective representatives in Congress seem content to

1195
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 1: ignore the will.

1196
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 5: Of the American people.

1197
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 1: He also says, I, like many of my fellow Americans,

1198
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: cannot in good conscience support the continuation of a genocide.

1199
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: This has weighed heavy on my heart, particularly the presidential

1200
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: primary election in Michigan has drawn near. It is for

1201
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: that reason that I will be checking the box for

1202
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: uncommitted on my presidential primary ballot next Tuesday. In doing so,

1203
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: I am choosing hope, the hope that mister Biden will listen,

1204
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 1: the hope that he and those in Democratic leadership will

1205
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: choose the salvation of our democracy, over aiding and abetting

1206
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 1: mister Netanyahu's war crimes, the hope that our families in

1207
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: Gaza will have food in their bellies, clean water to drink,

1208
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 1: access to healthcare and the internet, and above else, a

1209
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: just state in which they have the right to determine

1210
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 1: their own future. Dearborn being a majority Arab American state,

1211
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: So the fact that their elected mayor, who is a Democrat,

1212
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: is also saying I'm voting uncommitted is a real signal

1213
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: of trouble for them. But as Chris Wallace pointed out,

1214
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, this goes way beyond just Arab Americans in

1215
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: the state, which alone would be an issue in Michigan,

1216
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: but we're talking about a whole range of key Democratic

1217
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: constituencies which are not just at odds with but furious

1218
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 1: and disgusted by Joe Biden's stance.

1219
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:02,920
Speaker 5: That's here. So there's a new Michigan poll that just

1220
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 5: came out. Just to give you a sense here, put

1221
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 5: this up on the screen.

1222
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 1: So seventy four percent of Democratic voters say they support

1223
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 1: a ceasefire, only twelve percent say that they support Israel's

1224
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: operations in Gaza. Twelve percent of Democrats back the Joe

1225
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: Biden position with regard to israel I mean that is astonishing.

1226
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: And then put this next one up on the screen

1227
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: that shows you the comparison here among eighteen to thirty

1228
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: four year olds, Biden's favorability thirty two percent. Compare that

1229
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: to Michigan's Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer, just to show you

1230
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: they're not like just pissed off at everybody. Her favorability

1231
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 1: among the same group is almost reversed. It's sixty one percent,

1232
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 1: so thirty two percent favorability and sixty percent close to

1233
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: sixty percent unfavorability for Joe Biden among this group, And

1234
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: it's almost exactly reversed for Whitmer, who is sixty one

1235
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: percent favorable thirty three percent unfavorable. I think that demonstrates

1236
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: that it is not just a limited, this one narrow

1237
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: demographic group of voters that they have a problem with.

1238
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: They have a big problem. And so remember that political

1239
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: piece that said that they were looking for alternative pathways

1240
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 1: to victory in Michigan that basically didn't rely on the

1241
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: Arab American population.

1242
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 5: What you're not going to rely on young people, You're.

1243
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: Not going to rely on anybody who's like, you know,

1244
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,680
Speaker 1: even a little bit left of the center of the

1245
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 1: Democratic Party, Black voters are expressing this is a problem

1246
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: for them because they're looking at all this funding sea

1247
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 1: of overseas conflicts and saying, what about my neighborhood, what

1248
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 1: about my job, what about my livelihood? I mean, that

1249
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 1: was what we heard from some of the current focused

1250
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: group voters, and they are one hundred percent correct about that.

1251
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: And that's a message that you know, that extends beyond

1252
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 1: just the Democratic coalition into also how independents are viewing

1253
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: our unconditional support for these unending conflicts.

1254
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 9: Yeah.

1255
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 2: Look, I think it's very important for us to pay

1256
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: attention to this too, just because again everybody thinks like, oh, well,

1257
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 2: there will come in the end, they may just not vote,

1258
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 2: And I don't think people understand how important that is.

1259
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: So there was a decent analysis done back in twenty

1260
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,919
Speaker 2: sixteen where if just the same a number of black

1261
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 2: voters in Detroit had showed up in twenty sixteen as

1262
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 2: opposed to twenty twelve or two thousand and eight, then

1263
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:16,280
Speaker 2: Hillary would have easily won the state of Michigan. But

1264
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,919
Speaker 2: they just didn't come out to vogue. They didn't like Hillary. Well,

1265
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 2: the same scenario plays out here, except we're talking about

1266
01:01:22,600 --> 01:01:25,560
Speaker 2: possibly the same demographic but as well as young voters

1267
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 2: and Arab Americans. Where Trump only won by ten thousand votes,

1268
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,520
Speaker 2: Joe Biden did not win by very many votes in

1269
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 2: the state of Michigan. If we're looking also across the

1270
01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:37,600
Speaker 2: industrial Midwest, this could have the same impact in the

1271
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 2: state of Pennsylvania or any other place where you're relying

1272
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 2: on very, very slim margins to put you across the

1273
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 2: finish line, combined with the overall economic depression. So at

1274
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 2: a certain point, what does alternative path look like?

1275
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:50,960
Speaker 6: Like?

1276
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 2: Trump has rolled up these white collar or these sorry,

1277
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 2: these white working class voters to a historic degree. I

1278
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 2: don't see them changing course at this point. They either

1279
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 2: may come out to vote for Trump enthusiastically, some may

1280
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:06,400
Speaker 2: stay home, but to cross over and to vote Biden,

1281
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,240
Speaker 2: you know, in the current economy, like, I don't see it.

1282
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 2: I don't see how they could possibly do it.

1283
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: So let me give you another warning sign here that is,

1284
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: you know, not just about Israel, but is about dissatisfaction

1285
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: across the board.

1286
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 5: With Joe Biden, concerns.

1287
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: About his age discussed with the unconditional support for Israel,

1288
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: upset with the economy. You can put all of this

1289
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: into this basket. So in twenty twenty, Biden won roughly

1290
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: ninety one percent of Black voters ninety one percent. A

1291
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: new Quinnipiac this is a national poll has him at

1292
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: fifty six percent among Black voters. Wo Trump expands his

1293
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: meager support somewhat to fifteen percent, RFK Junior thirteen percent,

1294
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,760
Speaker 1: Cornell West thirteen percent. Now, listen, do I think that's

1295
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:54,000
Speaker 1: what it's going to look like at the end of

1296
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 1: the day. No, because, as we've discussed before, oftentimes support

1297
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: for third party candidates false off as you get closer

1298
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 1: to election day and there's a realization of like, all right,

1299
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: really it's coming down to one of these two dudes.

1300
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:09,440
Speaker 1: So I got to pick between the choices that are

1301
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: most likely to actually win and no guarantees. Also that

1302
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: rf K Junior and Cornell West are actually on the

1303
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 1: ballot in a majority of states, so a lot of

1304
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 1: caveats there. But this is a flashing red light for

1305
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,440
Speaker 1: Biden to go from ninety one percent support to fifty

1306
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 1: six percent support barely You're winning a majority of African

1307
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: American voters across the country.

1308
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:35,520
Speaker 5: I mean, he is in very very bad shape.

1309
01:03:35,600 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mentioned underscores that previous point that I made

1310
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 2: perfectly about how it do You only need it in

1311
01:03:40,920 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 2: a few areas and you can lose maybe one three

1312
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,959
Speaker 2: five percent. If you're losing forty percent, that's it, game

1313
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,200
Speaker 2: over game. Republicans have always said that they're like, you know,

1314
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:51,919
Speaker 2: if we just won eighty five percent of the black

1315
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 2: vote instead of instead of like two or sorry, if

1316
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 2: Democrats just won eighty five percent instead of ninety two percent,

1317
01:03:57,640 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: we would win all fifty states in the entire country.

1318
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 2: And I don't think people really understand, like how crazy

1319
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 2: that margin actually does work, especially in the Deep South.

1320
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 2: But that's a great example of how bad things can.

1321
01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Now I always have to put the other side

1322
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: out there just to cover our bases, which is that

1323
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,080
Speaker 1: Republicans have their own problems. Donald Trump is also very

1324
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:19,120
Speaker 1: much hated. Has tremendously turned off suburban voters. We talked

1325
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 1: yesterday about this insane Alabama Supreme Court ruling that embryos

1326
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,080
Speaker 1: are children. You know, this is probably a position that's

1327
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,480
Speaker 1: held by like three percent of the American public that

1328
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 1: they would support. There's a push behind the scenes amongst

1329
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: sort of like the Trump administration in waiting to use

1330
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: the Comstock Act to do this, sort of like blanket

1331
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 1: National Abortion Band. These things are wildly unpopular. Donald Trump

1332
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,280
Speaker 1: is wildly unpopular. He is in all sorts of legal

1333
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: jump like they have problems too. So at the end

1334
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: of the day, you know, I still think it's basically

1335
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 1: a jump ball. I would today say that Trump probably

1336
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 1: has the edge, but it's not written in stone. But

1337
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 1: the fact that Democrats have decided that they are just

1338
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 1: all in for the guy who is so much weaker

1339
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:07,360
Speaker 1: than even just like pick your most random standard off

1340
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: the shelf, Democrat in the entire country would probably be

1341
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: ten points superior to where Joe Biden is.

1342
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 5: And you're just I mean, it's insane.

1343
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: It is absolutely insane where the Democratic Party has put themselves.

1344
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 5: At this point.

1345
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: And it is not the fault of these voters who

1346
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 1: are pissed off about your policies and disgusted with your policies.

1347
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 1: It is your fault for enacting those policies and for

1348
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: sticking with this dude that a six percent of the

1349
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: country says is too old to be president. Another term

1350
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 1: speaking of the policies that have been enacted here. It's

1351
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 1: been a big week for the US running cover for

1352
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: Israeli atrocities, whether it was at the International Court Justice,

1353
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 1: whether it was at the UN. And now you have

1354
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 1: a Republican congressman truly going fully genocidal and saying all

1355
01:05:57,960 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 1: that the kids in Gaza should be killed in response

1356
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: to an activist who is pressing him.

1357
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to that.

1358
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 9: I've seen the footage. You seen footage of children's bodies.

1359
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:12,160
Speaker 9: That's my taxpayer dollars. I'm going to bombs kids. So

1360
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 9: I think we should kill them all if that makes

1361
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:14,640
Speaker 9: you feel better.

1362
01:06:17,720 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 5: So this is Congressman Andrew Ogles.

1363
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 1: The activist there says, so you're going to bomb these kids,

1364
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 1: and he says, I think we should kill them all

1365
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: if that makes you feel better.

1366
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1367
01:06:27,560 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 2: This is another good example of how some of the

1368
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 2: most insane rhetoric on Israel can often come from the

1369
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,520
Speaker 2: evangelical community. If we'll remember this dude's yeah, I was

1370
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 2: just looking it up in terms of Tennessee, in terms

1371
01:06:41,120 --> 01:06:42,880
Speaker 2: of where he's coming from, and in terms of some

1372
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 2: of the background. It's not altogether surprising because they can

1373
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 2: often be the most psychotic in their support, and it's

1374
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 2: also just really crazy and I don't really understand why

1375
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 2: a lot of Israeli is put up with it. I'm like,

1376
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 2: you know that they support you and like to the

1377
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 2: hilt because they believe that what the apocalypse is coming

1378
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 2: and this is going to be the ground of the

1379
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 2: second coming. Like if you really think about some of

1380
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:05,919
Speaker 2: the reasons, super creepy and you're almost a weird pond

1381
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 2: in their game. Fine, I will put that to the side.

1382
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 2: But Andy Ogeles, Brian Mast you know this coalition, Frankly,

1383
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 2: Mike Johnson full Oh, absolutely, yeah. A lot of this

1384
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 2: is about religious belief. And you know, whenever religion is

1385
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 2: concerned and you're thinking that that instead of national interests

1386
01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:24,640
Speaker 2: and other things, that's how you get to a place.

1387
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:26,320
Speaker 2: Like my other thing was, I was like, I wonder

1388
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:28,560
Speaker 2: if he was just saying in control, but I don't

1389
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:30,720
Speaker 2: think so. I hate, like, maybe he's trying to piss

1390
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 2: them off.

1391
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: Disgusting to say it either what I mean, and if

1392
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: your religious belief leads you to a place of saying

1393
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: murder all the children in a place that isn't you know,

1394
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: I'm not really Christian but I was raised alround a

1395
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: lot of Christians, and that is not my understanding of

1396
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: the teachings of Jesus Christ personally. But you know, I

1397
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:54,120
Speaker 1: could be wrong about this. You guys can can check

1398
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:57,040
Speaker 1: out the Bible and see see whether that is consistent

1399
01:07:57,200 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: with the teachings that you may find there. The other

1400
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 1: piece of this is Rashida Slid was literally censured for

1401
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:09,959
Speaker 1: echoing a rally chant calling for equal rights for Palestinians

1402
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: and Israelis from the river to the Sea. That was

1403
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 1: a subject of mass media coverage. Every Democratic politician was

1404
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:22,920
Speaker 1: forced to answer for her and condemn her, and many

1405
01:08:23,040 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: of her colleagues did so. This man outright calls for

1406
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:32,360
Speaker 1: the massacre of all of the Palestinian children of the

1407
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:36,639
Speaker 1: Gaza strip and I mean basically crickets from the media

1408
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: and certainly from the political class. So the blatant double

1409
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:45,040
Speaker 1: standard here is really astonishing. But it is not only

1410
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 1: American congressmen who have been catching a lot of attention

1411
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:53,559
Speaker 1: for their comments with regards to our great allies. Here

1412
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 1: Israel make Golan, who is the Israeli Minister of Social

1413
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: Equality and Women's Advancement, So she is in the Netnyahu

1414
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 1: Cabinet made some absolutely shocking remarks this week as well.

1415
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to what she has to say.

1416
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: I'll read the translation here, so she says, I'm personally

1417
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 1: proud of the ruins of Gaza and that every baby,

1418
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,560
Speaker 1: even eighty years from now, will tell their grandchildren what

1419
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 1: the Jews did when their families were murdered. Personally proud

1420
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,639
Speaker 1: of the ruins of Gaza, she says, every baby, even

1421
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:32,400
Speaker 1: eighty years from now, will tell their grandchildren what the

1422
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:36,080
Speaker 1: Jews did. Now, keep in mind here that Israel is

1423
01:09:36,080 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: facing a deadline to respond to the ICJ injunctions against

1424
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 1: them that both include you got to cut out the

1425
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:49,080
Speaker 1: acts that led us to determine you were plausibly committing genocide.

1426
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:53,519
Speaker 1: And you have to stop statements exactly like these that

1427
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 1: are incitement to genocide. And you have to punish and

1428
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: hold accountable people who continue to make these statements. And here,

1429
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 1: on the eve of that deadline, is this cabinet minister

1430
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: saying that she is proud of the complete destruction of

1431
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:13,680
Speaker 1: the Gaza strip. Our own State department was forced to

1432
01:10:13,760 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: respond to these insane and outrageous comments. Let's take a

1433
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 1: listen to how Matt Miller handled this particular moment of

1434
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: propaganda and on you know, trying to run cover for

1435
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: the Israeli government.

1436
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,880
Speaker 12: This is not someone extreme, it's not Smatts, it's not

1437
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:33,960
Speaker 12: a fear this is in Prime ministers.

1438
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 9: Yeah party site.

1439
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,800
Speaker 13: I would encourage you to take a close look at

1440
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,920
Speaker 13: the comments the Secretary made in Tel Aviv at a

1441
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 13: press conference two weeks ago, where he talked specifically about

1442
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 13: the effects of dehumanized dehumanizing language and why it's important

1443
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 13: that no one on either side of this conflict dehumanize

1444
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,640
Speaker 13: anyone else. That will continue to be our position.

1445
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 14: The government and the Kinsid and Israel lant to the

1446
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 14: establishment of a Palestinian state.

1447
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,360
Speaker 13: So again you have heard the Secretary speak to this

1448
01:11:10,560 --> 01:11:12,960
Speaker 13: that what we will do is continue to lay out

1449
01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:16,600
Speaker 13: what we think the best choice for the Government of

1450
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:18,799
Speaker 13: Israel to make and the best choice for the Israeli

1451
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 13: people to make. Ultimately, Israel have to make its own decisions,

1452
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:23,760
Speaker 13: as every sovereign country does.

1453
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:25,719
Speaker 5: Israel will have to make its own decisions.

1454
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:28,600
Speaker 1: But Saga, of course, we are so directly implicated in

1455
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 1: this since we are providing so much aid every year

1456
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:34,439
Speaker 1: and continue to expedite shipments of these weapons continue to

1457
01:11:34,479 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 1: block you, and Security Council resolutions continue to argue at

1458
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 1: the ICJ on Israel's behalf when they weren't even willing

1459
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 1: to go and defend themselves. But don't worry, the United

1460
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,480
Speaker 1: States of America is there to defend them from allegations

1461
01:11:46,600 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: of illegality and crimes at the ICJ.

1462
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 2: That's what cuts That's what really cuts it from them

1463
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:53,280
Speaker 2: is that, you know, at the same time, we're like, well,

1464
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 2: they can do whatever they want, but at the same time,

1465
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:59,360
Speaker 2: our entire political system is like revolving around their war

1466
01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:01,160
Speaker 2: and like what they're doing in terms of trying to

1467
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,840
Speaker 2: ship them money. And we have this example here of

1468
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 2: the US defense of Israel at the ICJ, specifically, you know,

1469
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 2: using our clout and our sovereignty to try to protect them.

1470
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 2: Here's what they had to say.

1471
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:16,799
Speaker 15: Any movement towards Israel withdrawal from the West Bank and Gods,

1472
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:22,120
Speaker 15: that requires consideration of Israel's very real security needs. We

1473
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,080
Speaker 15: were all reminded of those security needs on October seven,

1474
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:31,120
Speaker 15: and they persist. Regrettably those needs have been ignored by

1475
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 15: many of their participants in asserting how the court should

1476
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 15: consider the questions they have asked you to try to

1477
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:40,720
Speaker 15: resolve the whole of the dispute between the parties through

1478
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 15: an advisory opinion addressed to questions focusing on the acts

1479
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 15: of only one party. The United States disagrees with that

1480
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 15: this approach would be consistent with the Court's role within

1481
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 15: the United Nations or the established UN framework for achieving

1482
01:12:56,600 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 15: peace through negotiations.

1483
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 2: So that's why you were just to talk about Cristol.

1484
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 2: That was a choice by the US government to send

1485
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 2: somebody and to do that. We could have stayed out

1486
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:05,640
Speaker 2: of it if we wanted to, but you know, to

1487
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 2: specifically go and argue on another person's behalf. You're choosing

1488
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 2: a side, and it's like when you choose a side

1489
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:11,879
Speaker 2: and you are going to become accountable.

1490
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:16,200
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And here's the thing too, that was particularly outrageous

1491
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 1: about this moment at the ICJ. I did a monologue

1492
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:21,400
Speaker 1: about this earlier in the week to set the context

1493
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:23,960
Speaker 1: for what these particular hearings were about. This is a

1494
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 1: separate matter from the South African case against Israel alleging genocide.

1495
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:33,640
Speaker 1: This was even pre dates October seventh. They're looking for

1496
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 1: a hearing and a ruling from the ICJ. To determine

1497
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 1: that Israel's occupation is illegal, in part because you know,

1498
01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,559
Speaker 1: one of the laws around an occupation is can't be permanent.

1499
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 1: And you have, you know, a government after government expanding

1500
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:55,400
Speaker 1: the illegal settlements. Every single government since the seventies has

1501
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: expanded the settlements, increase the number of illegal settlers. You

1502
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 1: have government for these violent settlers who are going in

1503
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 1: and pushing through violence, Palestinians off of their land. Part

1504
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:11,560
Speaker 1: of why the October seventh military response from the Israelis

1505
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,040
Speaker 1: was so pissed poor is because they had relocated IDs

1506
01:14:15,080 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 1: soldiers from the area around Gaza in order to aid

1507
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 1: and a bet these violent settlers pushing Palestinans off their land.

1508
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,479
Speaker 1: This was already one of the most violent years prior

1509
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: to October seventh with regards to attacks on Palestinians in

1510
01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 1: the West Bank in particular. So that's what this case

1511
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 1: was about. Now, Previously, the US position has been that

1512
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 1: the settlements are illegal, and so for us to then

1513
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: go and argue and dance around, I mean, there was

1514
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 1: all this dancing around to try to avoid calling the

1515
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 1: settlements illegal, to try to avoid calling the occupation illegal.

1516
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 1: Really arguing these kind of legal technicalities of like, well,

1517
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 1: we just don't think this is the place to have

1518
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 1: these arguments. It really is disgraceful, and especially in the

1519
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 1: context of what is happening the Gaza strip right now.

1520
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 1: So you know the idea, oh it Israel can just

1521
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:08,440
Speaker 1: do whatever they want, Well, we are so directly implicated

1522
01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 1: here because of all the actions we take on their

1523
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:13,240
Speaker 1: behalf and our little you know, like well we told

1524
01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 1: them not to dehumanize Palestinians. Is so utterly pathetic when

1525
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 1: we are completely unwilling to do anything to back up

1526
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 1: our words with any kind of action. And also what

1527
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:28,439
Speaker 1: happened this week too, the Kanesset passed overwhelmingly, by the way,

1528
01:15:28,680 --> 01:15:34,000
Speaker 1: a resolution that is directly at odds with a two

1529
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:37,320
Speaker 1: state solution, which is supposedly the policy position of the

1530
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:39,599
Speaker 1: Biden administration, which is actually part of what Matt Malair

1531
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,559
Speaker 1: was responding to there. We also want to keep our

1532
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:45,800
Speaker 1: eyes on, you know, potentially devastating situation. Put this up

1533
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: on the screen. This was a good analysis written up

1534
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 1: in Haretz. Apparently US officials are worried that Ramadan may

1535
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:57,240
Speaker 1: hold the quote perfect storm, leading to a regional blow up.

1536
01:15:57,400 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: The subhead here Intahu's capitulation to his far right co

1537
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: colition partners of our Muslim access to the Temple mount

1538
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:04,719
Speaker 1: during the Holy month is just one of many factors

1539
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:08,439
Speaker 1: sparking concern that a major escalation is imminent.

1540
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 2: So you have these.

1541
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:17,960
Speaker 1: Religious hyper flash points that always create provocations, especially coming

1542
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 1: directly from Ben Gavir with regard to Ramadan. So you

1543
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:23,600
Speaker 1: have that.

1544
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:26,920
Speaker 5: You also have net Nyahu and co.

1545
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 1: Setting a deadline for their invasion of Rafa, that border town.

1546
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:34,960
Speaker 1: You know, with all this one point three million Palestinians

1547
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,519
Speaker 1: pressed up against the border with Egypt right there, they

1548
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,680
Speaker 1: set a Ramadan deadline for that as well. And it's

1549
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 1: hard to you know, you can't really wrap your hat

1550
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:46,920
Speaker 1: around how provocative this is in the broader region and

1551
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 1: what kind of explosion this could all lead to, not

1552
01:16:49,320 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: to mention, of course, the suffering that continues for the

1553
01:16:52,360 --> 01:16:55,040
Speaker 1: Palestinians and the way that they will be further impacted here.

1554
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 2: I'm very worried about the Ramadan thing. I mean, yeah,

1555
01:16:57,240 --> 01:16:59,320
Speaker 2: as you said, it's difficult to contextualize for people who

1556
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 2: aren't really familiar with Islamic culture. But to just say

1557
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 2: it's the holy month is almost frankly an understatement in

1558
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 2: terms of how seriously it's taken. And if there is

1559
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:10,040
Speaker 2: an idea, there's also a lot of ideas you know,

1560
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:15,040
Speaker 2: even within Islam about Ramadan and about like sacrifice and

1561
01:17:15,479 --> 01:17:18,360
Speaker 2: working on behalf of other Muslims, which takes on a

1562
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:21,600
Speaker 2: lot more extra significant. So anyway, if there is like

1563
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,479
Speaker 2: a mass slaughter that happens during Ramadan, a it is

1564
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 2: one that is very impactful, that would be for a

1565
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 2: lot of the Palestinian population. But really be what I'd

1566
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 2: be the most worried about is that it would ignite

1567
01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:36,080
Speaker 2: some sort of broader regional conflict because populations in many

1568
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:39,400
Speaker 2: of these countries would not accept those type of images

1569
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,600
Speaker 2: during the Holy month, and it would really instigate for

1570
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 2: a lot of these people a golf monarchies and other

1571
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,360
Speaker 2: places in particular to try and push their governments either

1572
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,600
Speaker 2: into the war. Same with the Egyptians as well. So

1573
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 2: I would not underestimate that, Yeah, it really would.

1574
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:55,720
Speaker 1: Indeed, and you have you know, psycho coalition partners like

1575
01:17:55,800 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 1: Ben Gavie who is just looking to for provocation, to

1576
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 1: provoke tensions, specifically with regard to the Temple Mount. He's

1577
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:07,240
Speaker 1: apparently ascended the Temple Mount three different times since becoming

1578
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:09,360
Speaker 1: a Cabinet minister. Each visit earned the ire of the

1579
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:12,800
Speaker 1: international community, endangered the highly fraught status quo at the

1580
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:16,879
Speaker 1: Jerusalem Holy Site. So you couple that with an already

1581
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 1: you know, tense doesn't begin to describe the situation, and

1582
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:23,400
Speaker 1: you are, as they put it, perhaps heading towards a

1583
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:26,040
Speaker 1: perfect storm. And it's important to keep in mind too

1584
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:31,519
Speaker 1: just how horrific the conditions already are on the ground.

1585
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:36,720
Speaker 1: There are multiple reports now of social order basically collapsing

1586
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:41,559
Speaker 1: at this point as the population faces starvation, which has

1587
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:45,920
Speaker 1: become endemic, especially in northern Gaza. So even the aid

1588
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:49,959
Speaker 1: that is coming in is oftentimes getting looted. The drivers

1589
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: of the AID convoys are being attacked. Let's take a

1590
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:56,160
Speaker 1: look at a CNN report on what is happening there.

1591
01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 12: Gaza's food problem writ large hunger trumping, fear of Israeli bullets,

1592
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 12: news of a coming AID convoy carrying flower into the

1593
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 12: north of Gaza, converging crowds to plunder it. We came

1594
01:19:16,320 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 12: here and the Israelis started opening fire on us, and

1595
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:22,800
Speaker 12: we hid between the buildings Hams and Nas says, when

1596
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:25,560
Speaker 12: the fire stops, we come out again. And wait for

1597
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:29,919
Speaker 12: the flower. The IDF say they will look into this incident,

1598
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 12: but say they can't rule out hamas shooting. Desperation leading

1599
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 12: to looting a growing problem in northern Gaza.

1600
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:44,040
Speaker 14: We're talking tens and tens of thousands for you know,

1601
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:49,120
Speaker 14: five ten trucks. It's the food that he's getting through

1602
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 14: is just a drop in the ocean. It's not nearly enough.

1603
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:58,080
Speaker 12: Theft so bad. The principal UN food supplier, the WFP,

1604
01:19:58,720 --> 01:20:03,440
Speaker 12: declaring Tuesday it will stop deliveries to the North, compounding

1605
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 12: the already dire conditions. Fifteen percent of children under two

1606
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:09,880
Speaker 12: have malnutrition.

1607
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:14,240
Speaker 14: It's now at an emergency level according to international standards.

1608
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 14: Once you're over fifteen percent for acute malnutrition, that's a

1609
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:20,320
Speaker 14: nutritional crisis and an emergency.

1610
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 12: Even before the World Food Program canceled food deliveries, children

1611
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:32,559
Speaker 12: venting fears shared by adults, abandonment by the world, no food,

1612
01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 12: no long time, no.

1613
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:37,439
Speaker 2: Legathin how the word share?

1614
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:38,800
Speaker 10: What care on you?

1615
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 1: How are your food your children? While we eat?

1616
01:20:44,880 --> 01:20:45,639
Speaker 2: Are you making?

1617
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 1: How?

1618
01:20:48,320 --> 01:20:49,760
Speaker 5: So devastating?

1619
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:51,800
Speaker 1: Report there and I believe it was in this report

1620
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 1: as well, where they interviewed a doctor who said, actually

1621
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 1: the number one condition that they are now treating at

1622
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: hospitals is malnutrition. That's where we are. CNN also caught

1623
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 1: Israel firing on an AID convoy. That's something that the

1624
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:07,680
Speaker 1: New York Times has reported on as well. Let's put

1625
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:10,240
Speaker 1: this up on the screen, they said. In one case,

1626
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:12,840
Speaker 1: in early February, the UN accused the Israeli navy of

1627
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:15,720
Speaker 1: shelling an AID convoy heading up Gaza's coastal road toward

1628
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:18,799
Speaker 1: Gaza City. Israeli military said it was looking into the claim.

1629
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:22,799
Speaker 1: The headline here, though, is attackers hurling stones, a cement

1630
01:21:22,920 --> 01:21:26,680
Speaker 1: block and an axe at the AID convoy trucks. Just

1631
01:21:27,000 --> 01:21:32,240
Speaker 1: absolute desperation taking hold here as Palestinians loot these AID

1632
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,280
Speaker 1: convoys and social order breaks down. Let me read you

1633
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: a little bit of what they said. They said such

1634
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:40,040
Speaker 1: attacks have become common since Israel's invasion last year, as

1635
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:42,920
Speaker 1: desperate civilians faced starvation in pockets of the enclave. According

1636
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 1: to the officials who spoke on condition of nanimity. In

1637
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 1: one recent attack, assailance through an axe at a driver's

1638
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 1: cabin attempting to break in, while another the attackers hurled

1639
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:54,080
Speaker 1: a cement block. According to an official, Israel blames much

1640
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 1: of the theft on Hamas, which it accuses of siphoning

1641
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 1: off supplies for its own forces. There is no evidence

1642
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:01,679
Speaker 1: of that, however, but the Western officials said the attacks

1643
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 1: appeared to be mostly organized by groups of Gazans who

1644
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:07,560
Speaker 1: were unaffiliated with Hamas or were the spontaneous acts of

1645
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:11,120
Speaker 1: desperate civilians. Hamas officials are barely present on the ground

1646
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,559
Speaker 1: in any part of Gaza, the official said, and international

1647
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: aid organizations are no longer coordinating their movements with that group.

1648
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 1: Until that until October, controlled the entirety of the territory

1649
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 1: and obviously sober. The core problem here is lack of food,

1650
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:26,799
Speaker 1: lack of water, lack of any sort of basic supplies.

1651
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: People absolutely desperate and you know, chaos ensuing. But a

1652
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,080
Speaker 1: tendant to that problem as well is Lawnford. I mean,

1653
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:38,640
Speaker 1: Hamas ran the Gaza strip, and so law enforcement was

1654
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:41,720
Speaker 1: definitionally you know, affiliated with Hamas. As you know they

1655
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:43,800
Speaker 1: always say the health Ministry run by Hamas et cetera.

1656
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:46,800
Speaker 1: Law enforcement was the same. Well, law enforcement is not

1657
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,640
Speaker 1: going to come out and guard these aid convoys for

1658
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:53,759
Speaker 1: fear of being targeted as quote unquote Hamas by Israeli forces.

1659
01:22:53,800 --> 01:22:56,679
Speaker 1: Who already are being caught firing on these aid convoys,

1660
01:22:56,760 --> 01:23:01,639
Speaker 1: so that further leads to, you know, an escalation of chaos, chaos, looting,

1661
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:03,680
Speaker 1: and breakdown of social order.

1662
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:05,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really bad. I mean, it's one of those

1663
01:23:05,680 --> 01:23:07,320
Speaker 2: things that we saw a lot in Iraq. And one

1664
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 2: of the reasons why you want to be very fearful

1665
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 2: of this is that it means that anybody can step

1666
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,240
Speaker 2: into the vacuum. And one of the ways actually the

1667
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 2: Taliban raise to rose to power in Afghanistan in the

1668
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:18,799
Speaker 2: late nineties is that you take a very chaotic situation,

1669
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:21,960
Speaker 2: you restore some semblance of order. People are willing to

1670
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 2: put up with it, even if it means their kids

1671
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:26,080
Speaker 2: can't go to school or their wives you know, basically

1672
01:23:26,160 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 2: come imprisoned in their house. Part of the amass rise,

1673
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly, Yeah, of course. But this point is just

1674
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 2: that you know, this we could see a lot worse

1675
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 2: than Hamas. We may actually see the what if Palestinian

1676
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,560
Speaker 2: Islamic jih Hot or something even more radical comes in

1677
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 2: and that you know, they start shooting all the criminals

1678
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 2: that can Actually in a situation like this, that's very popular,

1679
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,000
Speaker 2: and that's exactly how they can roll up defenses. And

1680
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 2: then especially with the way that the Israeli campaign, if

1681
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,680
Speaker 2: you combine that with some counterinsurgency effort, you're looking at

1682
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:54,200
Speaker 2: years long issue that there is right there. So the

1683
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:57,840
Speaker 2: security vacuum is not just a obviously it's a humanitarian disaster,

1684
01:23:58,000 --> 01:23:59,600
Speaker 2: but it's one of those where we saw it in

1685
01:23:59,680 --> 01:24:01,200
Speaker 2: some mile, we saw it in you Rock, we saw

1686
01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:03,519
Speaker 2: it in Afghanistan. When we have a vacuum like that,

1687
01:24:03,680 --> 01:24:06,400
Speaker 2: it will lead to more military conflict in the future.

1688
01:24:06,680 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 2: So you don't want it to happen. You want to

1689
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 2: prevent it.

1690
01:24:08,920 --> 01:24:12,200
Speaker 1: There are already estimates I think puts together by Johns

1691
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:16,320
Speaker 1: Hopkins group. I believe that show that the deaths from

1692
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:23,320
Speaker 1: starvation and disease could vary rapidly outpace those from the

1693
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: bombing and the bullets. And when you look at the

1694
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 1: numbers in terms of in the percentages in terms of

1695
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 1: famine and starvation and children facing severe wasting and malnutrition,

1696
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 1: you know we are really on the cusp of that.

1697
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: And the fact that you know the incursion, the imminent

1698
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:46,960
Speaker 1: invasion of Rafa. Remember Rafa is where the aid convoys

1699
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:50,480
Speaker 1: are predominantly coming through, So you already have a population

1700
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 1: that is literally starving to death, and then you're talking

1701
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 1: about further attacking the area where the aid is even

1702
01:24:58,120 --> 01:24:58,560
Speaker 1: coming in.

1703
01:24:58,800 --> 01:24:59,640
Speaker 5: I mean, it really is.

1704
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:03,080
Speaker 1: I can't even say such disaster them. It's already a disaster,

1705
01:25:03,479 --> 01:25:06,120
Speaker 1: and it's impossible to imagine just how much worse things

1706
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:07,240
Speaker 1: could continue to get.

1707
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right.

1708
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:10,559
Speaker 1: We're very fortunate today to have one of the few

1709
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 1: reporters who are on the ground covering the ins and

1710
01:25:13,040 --> 01:25:15,719
Speaker 1: outs of Assange's hearings in London. So let's go ahead

1711
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: and get to that. Excited to welcome our next GUESTI

1712
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:23,560
Speaker 1: Gibbons is policy director of Defending Rights and Dissent. He

1713
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 1: has advised multiple congressional offices on reforming the Espionage Act.

1714
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 1: He's currently in London covering those Julian Assange extradition hearings

1715
01:25:31,560 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 1: as an accredited reporter for Jacobin, and he is also

1716
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:37,280
Speaker 1: working on a book on the history of the FBI

1717
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 1: for Verso that I think is going to be challenging,

1718
01:25:40,280 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 1: given the FBI doesn't love to give up information he

1719
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:43,760
Speaker 1: was just telling us, But we're looking forward to that

1720
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:44,720
Speaker 1: one as well. Chip.

1721
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:45,719
Speaker 5: Great to have you, welcome.

1722
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 9: Thank you for having me and I've had to sue

1723
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,160
Speaker 9: the FBI multiple times to get documents for the book.

1724
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 9: We could publish a coffee table book of all of

1725
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:54,720
Speaker 9: my legal correspondents.

1726
01:25:55,080 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 1: We can have a companion book about what it took

1727
01:25:57,920 --> 01:25:58,639
Speaker 1: to write the book.

1728
01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:01,759
Speaker 9: The editor made that joke. We could do a coffee

1729
01:26:01,880 --> 01:26:06,439
Speaker 9: table book. Child buy it with the office information. Well, okay,

1730
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:09,760
Speaker 9: needed money at the a litigation chip.

1731
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:12,719
Speaker 1: Let me start by setting the stage here for our viewers.

1732
01:26:12,760 --> 01:26:14,960
Speaker 1: Let's put this up on the screen. Some of the

1733
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:19,640
Speaker 1: sights and sounds from the protest outside of the courtroom.

1734
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:23,560
Speaker 1: These are supporters of Julian Assange who believe, as I do,

1735
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 1: that he is being persecuted and that his prosecution here

1736
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:30,240
Speaker 1: in the US is a direct assault on freedom of

1737
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 1: the press. You can see the crowd there which is

1738
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 1: quite numerous, and we played earlier in the week some

1739
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:39,080
Speaker 1: of the comments from his wife, Stella Assange, and also

1740
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:41,160
Speaker 1: some of the comments of journalists Chris Hedges who was

1741
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:44,040
Speaker 1: there on the ground. Could you start by just setting

1742
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 1: up for people who may, like myself, find the UK

1743
01:26:47,960 --> 01:26:51,080
Speaker 1: legal system a little bit confusing and hard to discern

1744
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:54,599
Speaker 1: how this all works out, what these hearings are all about,

1745
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:57,599
Speaker 1: and if this is indeed the last chance that Julian

1746
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: Assange has to block extradition to the United States.

1747
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,720
Speaker 9: Well, I think everyone finds the UK legal system rather

1748
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:07,479
Speaker 9: for plexing. I'm not convinced the British don't find it

1749
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 9: for plexing. But what happened was in twenty nineteen the

1750
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:15,200
Speaker 9: United States put forward a extradition request to the United Kingdom.

1751
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:19,200
Speaker 9: In twenty twenty one, a district judge which they sometimes

1752
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:21,799
Speaker 9: just referred to as a DJ, which is very confusing

1753
01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:24,760
Speaker 9: to me why this disc jockey is doing these things.

1754
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,240
Speaker 9: But it's a district judge, not a DJ like we

1755
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 9: think deny extradition. In denying extradition, she rejected all of

1756
01:27:34,439 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 9: the political speech and press freedom grounds the defense for

1757
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:42,719
Speaker 9: Assange argued for. But she found because of his mental

1758
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:46,160
Speaker 9: health and because of the US prison conditions, that extra

1759
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 9: diiting hear him here would be oppressive. We've then had

1760
01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:54,879
Speaker 9: years of hearings in which that part of the decision

1761
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:59,800
Speaker 9: was appealed. The UK prosecutors appeal at the UK taxpayers

1762
01:28:00,040 --> 01:28:04,200
Speaker 9: expense on behalf of the US government. I can't fathom that,

1763
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:07,200
Speaker 9: but that's what's happening, and they got that part of

1764
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 9: the judge's decision frown out. So with the courts having

1765
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 9: overturned the blocking of the decision on mental health grounds,

1766
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,800
Speaker 9: the defense was then able to go and appeal the

1767
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:26,200
Speaker 9: part of the decision on press freedom and political speech grounds.

1768
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:28,519
Speaker 9: What's happening in the UK is you have to have

1769
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:30,880
Speaker 9: a hearing about whether or not you have a right

1770
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:34,000
Speaker 9: to appeal or not. So the two day hearing where

1771
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 9: they took two days of extensive arguments from both sides

1772
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 9: all day hearings from ten thirty to four thirty, was

1773
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:44,599
Speaker 9: in fact not really an appeal, but in a hearing

1774
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:46,960
Speaker 9: about whether or not to have an appeal. Now, if

1775
01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:51,040
Speaker 9: Julie Assange loses at this level, that is his last

1776
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:54,800
Speaker 9: chance to block the extradition in the UK. He could

1777
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,680
Speaker 9: go to the European Court of Human Rights, but or

1778
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:01,560
Speaker 9: they could try to speak him on a plane. You know,

1779
01:29:01,680 --> 01:29:04,439
Speaker 9: there was some concern, as remote as it was, that

1780
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 9: they could have ruled from the bench yesterday and put

1781
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:10,400
Speaker 9: Julian Assange on a plane before the court in Strasburg

1782
01:29:10,640 --> 01:29:14,800
Speaker 9: could ever intervene. His attorneys are of course prepared to

1783
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 9: go to the European Court of Human Rights if he loses,

1784
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:21,479
Speaker 9: but there's a big standoff between the Tory government and

1785
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:22,920
Speaker 9: that court in general.

1786
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 2: In the UK right now, got it? So, Chip, as

1787
01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:29,040
Speaker 2: I understand it, press freedom is not necessarily like a

1788
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 2: major goal of the UK government. This is a bipartisan thing,

1789
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:35,960
Speaker 2: not necessarily you know, one party. So how does that

1790
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 2: stand in terms of if this hearing you know the

1791
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:45,479
Speaker 2: way that it goes for Julian's chances of even defeating extradition. Period,

1792
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:47,800
Speaker 2: If he loses.

1793
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:50,040
Speaker 9: This hearing, he's done in the UK courses.

1794
01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:50,360
Speaker 6: Okay.

1795
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 9: If he wins this hearing, it goes to another UK

1796
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:57,640
Speaker 9: court who will hear very technical legal arguments about the

1797
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 9: European Covenant and human rights, whether or not the two

1798
01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 9: thousand and three Extradition Law actually incorporates the language of

1799
01:30:05,960 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 9: the Extradition Treaty that bars ex tradition on a political offense.

1800
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:12,880
Speaker 9: But I don't think we should get lost in the

1801
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:16,519
Speaker 9: legal weeds. On the second day of these proceedings, the

1802
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:21,600
Speaker 9: British lawyers started by saying flat out, Julian Assange is

1803
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:25,600
Speaker 9: not a journalist. Chelsea Manning is not a whistleblower. So

1804
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:29,000
Speaker 9: while there's all these technical arguments about what is Article

1805
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:31,400
Speaker 9: seven of the European Covenant and what is this part

1806
01:30:31,439 --> 01:30:34,800
Speaker 9: of UK domestic well mean for extradition. This is a

1807
01:30:34,960 --> 01:30:38,639
Speaker 9: hearing at its core about press freedom and about whether

1808
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:42,799
Speaker 9: or not the US can extradite a journalist to stand

1809
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:46,680
Speaker 9: trial for journalism. And I feel very patriotic about the

1810
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:48,760
Speaker 9: First Amendment. I think it's one of the things we

1811
01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 9: do best in America. If this case comes to the US,

1812
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:56,000
Speaker 9: we will be shredding the First Amendments guarantee your press freedom.

1813
01:30:56,280 --> 01:30:59,400
Speaker 9: But the reason why there's thousands of people from all

1814
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:02,559
Speaker 9: over the world outside this court is not because they're

1815
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:04,840
Speaker 9: all concerned with how we're doing in the US, but

1816
01:31:04,960 --> 01:31:07,400
Speaker 9: I'm sure they wish us well, but because this case

1817
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:11,680
Speaker 9: has global implications for press freedom. Julie Nossage is not

1818
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:16,400
Speaker 9: an American citizen. WikiLeaks is not an American publication. The

1819
01:31:16,600 --> 01:31:20,080
Speaker 9: US is saying it cannot only apply the Espionage Act

1820
01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:23,160
Speaker 9: to a journalist, which would be terrible if they did

1821
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:26,120
Speaker 9: it to the New York Times or a left wing

1822
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 9: US publication or anything like that. Donastically, but they're saying

1823
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:33,839
Speaker 9: they can apply to anyone anywhere in the world, Seize

1824
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:37,080
Speaker 9: that person, bring them to this country, and disappear them

1825
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:40,160
Speaker 9: into a dungeon, right, that is what the US is arguing,

1826
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:42,920
Speaker 9: and that is a shocking argument. And you know, if

1827
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:46,120
Speaker 9: the US says it can do this, other countries are

1828
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:48,240
Speaker 9: going to do it as well. I mean, imagine you

1829
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:52,040
Speaker 9: had someone who leaked information about the Iranian or Russian governments,

1830
01:31:52,320 --> 01:31:58,799
Speaker 9: and Iran or Russia wanted to actually like the journalist

1831
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:01,720
Speaker 9: who published the leaks. We would we would be, we

1832
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:04,760
Speaker 9: would be besides ourselves, and you would listen to these

1833
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:09,240
Speaker 9: these British prosecutors say, Julia Sange isn't a journalist. Wiki

1834
01:32:09,360 --> 01:32:12,920
Speaker 9: leagues solicit its information. They're not supposed to publish. It's

1835
01:32:13,040 --> 01:32:19,280
Speaker 9: secret information. And it's like, okay, that's what journalism is though,

1836
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:22,760
Speaker 9: and they would read out, Chelsea Manny's not a whistleblower.

1837
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:26,479
Speaker 9: She gave away X number of US military documents on

1838
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:28,800
Speaker 9: the Iraq War. And it's like, no, that is that

1839
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:32,000
Speaker 9: is whistleblowing. And the highlight of the hearing for me

1840
01:32:32,160 --> 01:32:34,960
Speaker 9: really came when the defense was allowed. I guess the

1841
01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:38,000
Speaker 9: repellants down on defense were allowed to give their rebuttal,

1842
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 9: and they started by saying in two and a half hours,

1843
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:44,839
Speaker 9: my learned colleague, that's how they referred to my learned colleague.

1844
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:47,240
Speaker 9: The judges are my lord and my lady the uh

1845
01:32:47,680 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 9: the other lawyers are my learned colleague. I'm learning a

1846
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:54,320
Speaker 9: lot about British legal euthanisms, my learned colleague. In two

1847
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:55,840
Speaker 9: and a half half, I have to write a book

1848
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 9: on that. On two and a half hours. In two

1849
01:32:58,280 --> 01:33:01,439
Speaker 9: and a half hours, never won mentioned to these documents

1850
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:05,280
Speaker 9: were about state criminality or about war crimes. And when

1851
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:10,640
Speaker 9: you punish someone, when you punish someone for publishing documents

1852
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 9: about state crimes war crimes, you the nextest between that

1853
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:20,439
Speaker 9: and a political offense is completely clear. Because the UK

1854
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 9: judges kept saying or not judges, UK lawyers kept saying, well,

1855
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:27,240
Speaker 9: how can it be a political case? We've had two

1856
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:31,160
Speaker 9: different presidential administrations. If you say it's a political case,

1857
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 9: you're besmirching the prosecutor. You're saying he's bringing it in

1858
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:38,479
Speaker 9: bad faith. And we have such good relationships with the

1859
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:41,400
Speaker 9: US and the lawyers just they make a number of

1860
01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:44,400
Speaker 9: brilliant technical legal arguments, but they just came back with

1861
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:49,240
Speaker 9: when you have documents that expose state criminality and you

1862
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 9: put the person in jail, right, the political repression there

1863
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:55,840
Speaker 9: is quite clear. You don't need to be a lawyer

1864
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:58,519
Speaker 9: to know which way the wind blows in this case.

1865
01:33:58,600 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 9: To paraphrase Bobda.

1866
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:03,479
Speaker 1: It's always important to remember, too, the people actually committed

1867
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:06,840
Speaker 1: those crimes that were revealed, they were never held accountable.

1868
01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 1: It's also important to remember that the Obama administration agreed

1869
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:15,439
Speaker 1: with your assessment that this implicated press freedom.

1870
01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:18,360
Speaker 5: And you know, they hated Julian Massange as.

1871
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:21,519
Speaker 1: Much as the next administration, but they decided under the

1872
01:34:21,560 --> 01:34:25,960
Speaker 1: Obama Biden administration that they could not prosecute him and

1873
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 1: protect journalists at the New York Times, the Washington Post

1874
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 1: and elsewhere, or publishers as well. You know, Chip, how

1875
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:38,160
Speaker 1: did you feel like these hearings went. You know, is

1876
01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: the deck just hopelessly stacked against Julian because the UK

1877
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:45,560
Speaker 1: is just basically going to do whatever the Biden administration

1878
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:48,000
Speaker 1: wants them to do, or do you think that he

1879
01:34:48,240 --> 01:34:51,520
Speaker 1: has a shot here at actually blocking this extradition.

1880
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,360
Speaker 9: You know, I appreciate that I'm an American observing the

1881
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:58,439
Speaker 9: UK system, so it's a little bit hard for me

1882
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:01,519
Speaker 9: to tell. Sometimes I would feel very confident if this

1883
01:35:01,680 --> 01:35:05,639
Speaker 9: was a US hearing assessing it during the first day,

1884
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:09,320
Speaker 9: the judges asked a number of questions of the Massage

1885
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:14,040
Speaker 9: lawyers about these claims about publishing unredacted human sources, and

1886
01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 9: of course WikiLeaks didn't do that. Somebody leaked the password

1887
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:22,400
Speaker 9: and the documents ended up online, which the British prosecutors

1888
01:35:22,720 --> 01:35:25,080
Speaker 9: argued didn't matter. He was still responsible for it, and

1889
01:35:25,400 --> 01:35:27,360
Speaker 9: even if he wasn't, that was for a US court,

1890
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:30,400
Speaker 9: not a UK court to decide. But the judges did

1891
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:35,240
Speaker 9: have a number of questions for the prosecutors that did

1892
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 9: seem sort of critical some of the claims they were making,

1893
01:35:38,439 --> 01:35:42,519
Speaker 9: especially around this claim that Gordon Kromberg made that as

1894
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:46,280
Speaker 9: a foreign national, the US might not consider Assange having

1895
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 9: any First Amendment rights or first defenses to the ESBI

1896
01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:52,320
Speaker 9: NAG Act. So we're saying we can put a publisher

1897
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:55,760
Speaker 9: in jail anywhere in the world under our eSPI NASE Act,

1898
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:59,120
Speaker 9: but he can't raise press freedom arguments because those are

1899
01:35:59,160 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 9: only for America, which is a fascinating double standard.

1900
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:03,840
Speaker 10: Uh.

1901
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:06,360
Speaker 9: And when I talked to some of the people who

1902
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:10,320
Speaker 9: had who had on the legal team and his supporters,

1903
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:12,920
Speaker 9: they felt like the judges were less hostile on their

1904
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,840
Speaker 9: questions than past judges were. So I think there's a

1905
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:20,080
Speaker 9: cautious optimism, but this is the British legal system and

1906
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 9: it is you know, there is a political establishment here

1907
01:36:23,160 --> 01:36:24,559
Speaker 9: that hates chilling as much as they do.

1908
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:25,639
Speaker 6: In the US.

1909
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:28,000
Speaker 2: I really appreciate the fact that you were on the ground.

1910
01:36:28,120 --> 01:36:30,000
Speaker 2: Ryan Graham recommended it. You were one of the only

1911
01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:32,320
Speaker 2: people in the United States that actually, you know, was like, hey,

1912
01:36:32,400 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 2: maybe I'll just go actually check out this very important

1913
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:37,760
Speaker 2: case for our own legal system and for the world. So, Chip,

1914
01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:39,640
Speaker 2: we really appreciate the work that you're doing. Where can

1915
01:36:39,720 --> 01:36:41,479
Speaker 2: people learn more about it and support you?

1916
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:44,960
Speaker 9: Yeah, come to you can learn more about defending rights

1917
01:36:45,040 --> 01:36:48,280
Speaker 9: and assent at rights and descent dot org. I'm also

1918
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:51,680
Speaker 9: on Twitter. Against my better judgment, I should give it

1919
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:55,960
Speaker 9: eighty nine. I keep waiting for Elon Musk to finally

1920
01:36:56,040 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 9: break Twitter and then I can finally get off of it,

1921
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:01,720
Speaker 9: but they keep threatening us with a good time and

1922
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:02,400
Speaker 9: we never get it.

1923
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:05,840
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, I feel very similarly. But then there

1924
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:08,519
Speaker 1: are also days when Twitter really delivers. You know, the

1925
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:13,639
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift discourse was fun. This Google image situation was entertaining,

1926
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:17,360
Speaker 1: So I can't quit it. I'm not going to pretend Chip,

1927
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:18,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much.

1928
01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:21,880
Speaker 5: Again, I'd like to exactly exactly.

1929
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:24,880
Speaker 1: It's great to meet you, and thank you again for

1930
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,360
Speaker 1: joining us and for helping our audience understand what's going

1931
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:27,680
Speaker 1: on there.

1932
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:29,800
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much for watching. We really appreciate it.

1933
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:31,720
Speaker 2: If there's anything breaking over the weekend, we will bring

1934
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Speaker 2: it to you. Otherwise we will see you all next week.