Speaker 1: What does it feel like being in this room, dude?
Speaker 1: Since such an incredible journey that we're getting to be
Speaker 1: a part of here.
Speaker 2: I remember singing treat you better in here. This is
Speaker 2: a place of breakthrough for me.
Speaker 1: What's it been like for you having your romantic life
Speaker 1: be so public? Elia actually sent us a note. No way,
Speaker 1: my sister yes, so she says, dear Sean, Oh no,
Speaker 1: I'm going to cray. We'd throwed to announce that we've
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Speaker 1: to make their day. The number one health and wellness podcast,
Speaker 1: Jay Setty Jay sheety Ly. Hey, everyone, welcome back to
Speaker 1: On Purpose. I am so grateful to be with you
Speaker 1: in this very very special place today with a human
Speaker 1: that I'm so lucky to call a friend. And it's
Speaker 1: kind of strange sitting opposite him with a microphone in
Speaker 1: front of me, because this is not usually how we
Speaker 1: spent time together. And I can honestly say that this
Speaker 1: individual is someone you already know. He needs no introduction.
Speaker 1: But whenever he speaks, you hear truth in his voice.
Speaker 1: Whenever he sings, you hear his heart through it. Whenever
Speaker 1: he's around anyone, I've seen him light up every room
Speaker 1: he walks into and radiate goodness and genuineness around him.
Speaker 1: And his new music is going to do that in
Speaker 1: such a powerful, beautiful, thoughtful way, and I can't wait
Speaker 1: for you to hear it. And we're so lucky that
Speaker 1: we get to be in the womb of where his
Speaker 1: work's being created right now. I'm sitting there with my
Speaker 1: dear friend incredible musician, phenomenal human and all around great dude.
Speaker 1: Sean Mendez, Sean, it's good to see.
Speaker 3: Man crazy finally.
Speaker 1: Finally after four years of hikes.
Speaker 3: It feels like it feels like longer than four years.
Speaker 1: Man, it does feel that four years. But yesterday night
Speaker 1: I went back and traced back the first time we
Speaker 1: messaged twenty twenty, twenty twenty years, so I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I was like, I thought it was longer too, But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been a lot of deep time there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's been crazy, and I mean we've been
Speaker 2: talking about wanting to do this, but yeah, I knew
Speaker 2: the right time would just appear, and it just feels
Speaker 2: like so the right time. And I guess for everyone,
Speaker 2: you guys don't really know that, like the last four years, Jane,
Speaker 2: I had this beautiful relationship where we go on these
Speaker 2: hikes and we just kind of catch up and yeah, man,
Speaker 2: you've just been You've been beyond there for me for
Speaker 2: so long. So I love you and I'm just I'm
Speaker 2: so grateful and this is so important to me and
Speaker 2: I'm honored to be here and it's just other things, man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, truly, brother, thank you for saying that the feeling's mutual.
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting when you connect with someone
Speaker 1: and you're being kind and saying I was there for you,
Speaker 1: But I think you've equally been there for me, hope so,
Speaker 1: and you've helped me see things in myself that I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have seen if I didn't know you. And I
Speaker 1: think watching you reflect through the process you've been through
Speaker 1: in the last four years, and watching you be so
Speaker 1: inward focused kind of forced me to do more self
Speaker 1: work as well. And so I think it's been a
Speaker 1: beautiful mutual relationship. But let's diep straight into I actually
Speaker 1: want you to share with people where we are, because
Speaker 1: this is not my studio and we're in this beautiful place,
Speaker 1: and I think you're the best person to give us
Speaker 1: a visual tour. If you're watching, and if you're listening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're listening, we are and we're sitting in
Speaker 2: the middle of a live room in a studio called
Speaker 2: the Clubhouse in upstate Rhinebeck, New York. If you're watching,
Speaker 2: you're seeing all the beautiful candles and stuff. This is
Speaker 2: probably one of my favorite places in the whole world.
Speaker 2: This is the room that, oh man, I mean I've
Speaker 2: made all of my albums here, all of my music,
Speaker 2: and I've had some of the most magical moments of
Speaker 2: my life in this room, and so I'm going to
Speaker 2: be probably a little emotional, just like even sitting in here,
Speaker 2: just because as I sit here and as we talk,
Speaker 2: it's just memories kind of circling around.
Speaker 3: Of just like time. And Yeah, it's an amazing studio.
Speaker 1: Yeah you can feel it. I felt when I walked in,
Speaker 1: and I can feel it right now. There's a different
Speaker 1: energy in here. So I'm so grateful that you allowed
Speaker 1: us to come in and share this with the rest
Speaker 1: of the world through this interview. And it's really beautiful
Speaker 1: actually being in a space where an artist creates and
Speaker 1: moves and cries and breaths, and I think it's rare
Speaker 1: you don't really get access to that. I think you
Speaker 1: go see artists in a concert or in a public
Speaker 1: space where you don't really get this. And I thought
Speaker 1: where I wanted to start this interview is kind of
Speaker 1: roll back to your announcement about tour, and you talk
Speaker 1: about this in your song who I Am you say,
Speaker 1: And I'm going to be looking at my notes a
Speaker 1: lot because I haven't yet learned all your lyrics off
Speaker 1: and I know the fans are going to be really heartbroken.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, have you not done this yet? But
Speaker 1: if I'm on my phone, I'm reading lyrics back to you.
Speaker 1: So in Who I Am it says it broke my
Speaker 1: heart when I canceled tour, had my soul and my
Speaker 1: heart going back and forth, and I wanted to read
Speaker 1: the message you actually put up on Instagram at the time,
Speaker 1: because I remember it going out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were talking about talking the night before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you were actually the person I texted at
Speaker 2: like one am that night when I was just in
Speaker 2: complete spin of what to do. And I just remember
Speaker 2: feeling so much like I think in those situations, it
Speaker 2: feels really hard to ask people to give you advice
Speaker 2: or to give you an opinion because it's such a
Speaker 2: big deal, you know, to do something like that. And
Speaker 2: I remember assuming you were going to reply something along
Speaker 2: the lines of you can do it, you know, just
Speaker 2: you know, you got it, like we can do this,
Speaker 2: we can figure out a way, and you were just like,
Speaker 2: in the most loving way. I can't remember exactly, something
Speaker 2: along lines of just like whatever you need, take care
Speaker 2: of yourself, you know, and I remember when I read that,
Speaker 2: my whole body just like sunk into the bed and
Speaker 2: I was like, oh God, like, yeah, it was really
Speaker 2: important to me.
Speaker 3: So thank you for that. But yeah, so sorry, go on.
Speaker 1: Noh yeah, no, no, no, I'm sure glad that you
Speaker 1: remember that. I remember you telling me that you know,
Speaker 1: on tour, an artist has to do something like or
Speaker 1: someone like yourself has to do like one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty shows minimum. And I remember asking you, at what
Speaker 1: point do you feel like you can't do another show?
Speaker 1: And you said around like fifty.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I was just like what.
Speaker 1: I was like, so wait, you have to do one
Speaker 1: hundred And it was so funny because I went on
Speaker 1: my World tour last year, I only needed forty shop
Speaker 1: and I felt it around thirty three yeah, And I was.
Speaker 3: Like, wow, she probably has something to do with relative
Speaker 3: to when the end is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fifties any race, ye know? And so anyway,
Speaker 1: you said there were two times you posted about it,
Speaker 1: but this one you said, this breaks my heart to
Speaker 1: have to say this, but unfortunately I'm going to have
Speaker 1: to postpone the next three weeks of shows. I've been
Speaker 1: touring since I was fifteen, and to be honest, it's
Speaker 1: always been difficult to be on the road away from
Speaker 1: friends and family. After a few years off the road,
Speaker 1: I felt like I was ready to dive back in,
Speaker 1: but the decision was premature and unfortunately the toll of
Speaker 1: the road and the pressure has caught up to me
Speaker 1: and I've hit a breaking point. After speaking with my
Speaker 1: team and health professionals, I need to take some time
Speaker 1: to heal and take care of myself and my mental
Speaker 1: health first and foremost. As soon as there are more updates,
Speaker 1: I promise you I will let you know. Love you guys,
Speaker 1: walk me through how hard that time was for you, mentally, physically,
Speaker 1: even before having to send that message, because I think
Speaker 1: when people see that message, they think you've just decided it,
Speaker 1: but really it's something you've been holding yeah, for months, weeks,
Speaker 1: maybe even years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think like the reality is, anyone who
Speaker 2: does anything at a high level knows that it's hard.
Speaker 2: It's hard, Like anything you want to do that's extraordinary
Speaker 2: is hard. So there are going to be these moments
Speaker 2: where it feels really hard and it feels like you
Speaker 2: can't do it, and that I think every athlete or
Speaker 2: performer or anyone knows, you know that there are all
Speaker 2: these dips and these peaks, and that's just part of it.
Speaker 2: The problem is that, for me, the hardest part about
Speaker 2: being in a state of I don't even know the
Speaker 2: right word to describe it, but you could say, you know, depression,
Speaker 2: you could say anxiety, you could say just general darkness
Speaker 2: or lowness. The hardest thing about that is not the
Speaker 2: feeling that way. It's that the feeling that way makes
Speaker 2: you look at your life that lens, and therefore all
Speaker 2: the love that's around you and all the people who
Speaker 2: are loving you and supporting you, you can't even see
Speaker 2: that love anymore. Uh, And so it's all just kind
Speaker 2: of getting consumed by this feeling. I mean, I've done
Speaker 2: I've done a lot of tours and that was you know,
Speaker 2: and I've been in hard places before, and I think
Speaker 2: the reality was that it just became really really clear
Speaker 2: to me that I needed to diversify in life, you know,
Speaker 2: and that since I was a kid, my entire life
Speaker 2: had been about one thing. It had been about performing
Speaker 2: and making music and just a constant kind of cycle.
Speaker 3: And it was amazing.
Speaker 2: And but the reality is that, you know, I really
Speaker 2: do believe all your eggs in one basket is a
Speaker 2: dangerous way, you know. And I was like, I was
Speaker 2: the number one ruter of like I have no plan B.
Speaker 2: I don't have, you know, And I had nowhere to
Speaker 2: go when things were getting hard, you know, I didn't
Speaker 2: have other aspects of life that I felt connected to
Speaker 2: that I could have like leaned into to have a
Speaker 2: little bit of like a break from touring and come
Speaker 2: back and just find that balance. And I knew there
Speaker 2: was only one way of doing that, and it was
Speaker 2: by step by step, just like creating a life, you know.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I mean, canceling that.
Speaker 2: Tour was by far the hardest decision of my life
Speaker 2: and by far the greatest decision of my life. And
Speaker 2: it gave me a life, you know, it really it
Speaker 2: gave me time to discover so much about myself. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm smiling now because it's so far away, but it, yeah,
Speaker 2: did so much for me.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Who did you feel? I know later on you talk
Speaker 1: about in the same song this idea of I feel
Speaker 1: pressure from the people that I love and it hurts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I know I got to do it, got to
Speaker 1: put me first. Like who do you feel you were
Speaker 1: letting down at the time, yourself and others.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the reality is not just as the artist,
Speaker 2: is not just you that sacrifices everything to do that.
Speaker 2: You have a team of almost one hundred people who
Speaker 2: are away from their families for year and they're every
Speaker 2: day working, They're not sleeping, they're sacrificing everything to put
Speaker 2: this show on. That was one of the hardest pills
Speaker 2: to swallow.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's just like, oh man, and like they are excited
Speaker 2: to like, you know, you got to be an insane
Speaker 2: person to be a touring crew or anyone on tour.
Speaker 3: You have to truly love it.
Speaker 2: You have to understand that, like this is profoundly greater
Speaker 2: than you and what's happening is magical. And so it
Speaker 2: was like not letting people down and like we've worked
Speaker 2: so hard. It was like, oh man, people were excited,
Speaker 2: you know, people were proud out of what they created,
Speaker 2: and that was the hard part.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like I remember when we would talk
Speaker 1: about it. Then there was also this weight around it
Speaker 1: where it was like you'd had this growth period in
Speaker 1: your life, where as you said, you've been doing this
Speaker 1: since you were fifteen. Yeah, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you were kind of getting the growth opportunity to say,
Speaker 1: I get to make my own decisions now. And I remember, like,
Speaker 1: just learning from you about that dynamic of young people
Speaker 1: who become successful and famous and very very early on,
Speaker 1: it's like you're still a kid. Yeah, and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you're like, oh, well, am I allowed
Speaker 1: to make my own decisions? Am I allowed to say
Speaker 1: I don't want to do something? Walk me through a
Speaker 1: bit of that reflective process, because I think it's not
Speaker 1: an age thing. I think we all go through. We
Speaker 1: all go through this arc in our life where we go, oh, I'm.
Speaker 2: Going to be the one to make the decisions now?
Speaker 2: Am I going to take the responsibility?
Speaker 3: Yeah? And I think, yeah, that's the hardest part is.
Speaker 2: He really comes down to the moment you're prepared to
Speaker 2: take responsibility for your life and for everything that goes
Speaker 2: wrong and for everything that goes right. And it's hard,
Speaker 2: you know, because your whole life you either you have
Speaker 2: your parents to either rely on, like you know, you
Speaker 2: look at them and.
Speaker 3: They go, okay, yeah, well they said.
Speaker 2: It's always kind of like you can deflect that responsibility
Speaker 2: on to someone else, whether it's my manager or someone,
Speaker 2: and uh, yeah, that was just like, this is going
Speaker 2: to be a big decision I make and then there's
Speaker 2: going to be repercussions here and I'm going to have
Speaker 2: to be responsible for it. And yeah, it's it's kind
Speaker 2: of it's kind of just like that. And the beautiful
Speaker 2: thing is that once I did that, it felt like, now, okay,
Speaker 2: that was the kind of big one, and then every
Speaker 2: other little decision it was kind of like, well here
Speaker 2: here I am again making another decision and you kind
Speaker 2: of go so like I might started bring my sister
Speaker 2: into this, but like for Yuli, yeah, but like she's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't want to. She's like, can't I just not
Speaker 2: have the responsibility? And I'm like, that's not how it works. Like,
Speaker 2: once you start taking responsibility, you just got to keep
Speaker 2: taking responsibility. And it's simultaneously grueling but also so much
Speaker 2: more rewarding because when it goes well, you know, it's
Speaker 2: you who put yourself in that position.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Said something beautiful just now you said it was the
Speaker 1: hardest decision and it was the greatest decision.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Have you found those two things often go together or
Speaker 1: would you say that's not the case.
Speaker 2: I find that simultaneously the hardest moments of my life
Speaker 2: are coupled with the most beautiful moments of my.
Speaker 3: Life every time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it actually became kind of like a joke during
Speaker 2: this making of this album, because when I would walk
Speaker 2: into the studio and I you know, people would see
Speaker 2: on my face immediately if I'm having anxiety or and
Speaker 2: they would be like, we're going to write a good
Speaker 2: song today. Like every time, it was like there was
Speaker 2: some sort of healing crisis that had to happen. I
Speaker 2: had to like get through this pain, this fear, this anxiety,
Speaker 2: these tears, this anger something, and on the other end
Speaker 2: of that was just like plain truth and plain truth
Speaker 2: was just the best ingredients for a song, you know.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1: How does an eyes never find peace?
Speaker 3: Then that's a great question.
Speaker 2: I think like I would be following through, and I
Speaker 2: do follow through even if there's no song to write.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I think we're so taught, especially in so many societies
Speaker 2: and cultures, but like I feel like in the West,
Speaker 2: we're so taught to just there's a time and place
Speaker 2: for things. And if you're in an interview and tears
Speaker 2: are about to come if you're in an interview and
Speaker 2: anger is about to happen, you can't let that happen.
Speaker 2: And I really have noticed that, like, if you can
Speaker 2: just like express it in an honest, calm way, most
Speaker 2: likely a more beautiful thing is going to come through
Speaker 2: that than what you desired. You know, I would do
Speaker 2: that if there was no song that came out of it.
Speaker 2: That's kind of my way of moving through life. It's
Speaker 2: like I head to the gym, and I'm like, if
Speaker 2: I'm walking into the gym today and to decrying in
Speaker 2: the gym, that's a better outcome, you know.
Speaker 1: So you do live like that?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 1: You do live like that? And I haven't said it yet,
Speaker 1: but you know, this album, it's so fascinating for me
Speaker 1: to see it from the moment that we're talking about
Speaker 1: now to then its creation, because I remember when it
Speaker 1: was you trying to figure out your voice and figure
Speaker 1: out who you are as an artist, as a person,
Speaker 1: as a human. And now when I listen to it,
Speaker 1: it almost sounds so effortless and true and authentic in
Speaker 1: this really flowing way, kind of like this channeling experience
Speaker 1: of even listening to it, and I couldn't believe it
Speaker 1: when I listened to it, because I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: like you did it like that? That's how I felt like.
Speaker 1: I was like, you did it? And then some like
Speaker 1: it was even it far superseded any of the expectations
Speaker 1: I would have had in the conversations we had of
Speaker 1: how you were thinking about it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and it's like, you know, you have the
Speaker 2: idea of some if I said to you, you know,
Speaker 2: six months ago, I want to make the most honest
Speaker 2: album ever made. Then you start having ideas of what
Speaker 2: that sounds like and what that looks like. And then
Speaker 2: at some point actually in the studio, at some point
Speaker 2: when you're done with all the ideas of what you
Speaker 2: are trying to force it to become, there's a breaking
Speaker 2: point and you surrender to it and the album starts
Speaker 2: to become what it's meant to be, and you just
Speaker 2: have to like roll with that, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's that's hard though, it's super hard.
Speaker 1: How do you trust that? How do you trust it?
Speaker 1: Because I feel like, with exhaustion, I think we're living
Speaker 1: at this time where I feel like everything's perfectly engineered, manufactured,
Speaker 1: and even authenticity is programmed. Yeah. Yeah, and then you're
Speaker 1: trying to say, well, no, I actually want to create
Speaker 1: something like that, but then how do I not engineer it?
Speaker 2: Something that I learned on this process was just like
Speaker 2: the foundation, like the first brick you lay, If that
Speaker 2: brick is a brick of like authentic truth. If you
Speaker 2: work really hard to get to that place, and that
Speaker 2: first brick you lay is truth, each brick after that
Speaker 2: will be much easier, you know. And like I remember,
Speaker 2: it felt like as long as every word I say
Speaker 2: comes out of my like the writers I was working with,
Speaker 2: everyone became so attuned to me saying something, and if
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, saying it and then I
Speaker 2: was kind of quincing after if I was saying it
Speaker 2: and then it just didn't sound right coming out of
Speaker 2: my mouth, we would just be like, all right, that's
Speaker 2: not it, Like we need it needs to have that,
Speaker 2: like you said, that natural flow and that first brick
Speaker 2: just like set a foundation for truth to just be it.
Speaker 2: Now we're at the point where anything that really isn't
Speaker 2: in that space is so obvious that we can't even
Speaker 2: put it next to it, you know, And so it's
Speaker 2: just really if you start there, it's so much easier
Speaker 2: to build it's so much harder to start in a
Speaker 2: kind of place of I want to be perceived this way,
Speaker 2: and then halfway through that be like I want this
Speaker 2: to feel like truth, and because it itself gets confused, you.
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was saying this to Helena
Speaker 1: the other day yesterday when we were driving from Boston
Speaker 1: last night, and I was just saying that I'm at
Speaker 1: a point in my life where i just want to experience,
Speaker 1: like I don't want to think about It's not that
Speaker 1: I don't I want to be It's not that I
Speaker 1: want to be irresponsible and not think about consequences or repercussions.
Speaker 1: But there are certain experiences that I want to open
Speaker 1: myself up to, regardless of how they're perceived or how
Speaker 1: I may have perceived them in the past, because that's
Speaker 1: the only way I'm going to actually get to live.
Speaker 1: If I'm constantly curating and perfectly managing every part of
Speaker 1: my appearance, perception, reputation, whatever environment, I don't actually get
Speaker 1: to live or breathe or experience. And when I hear
Speaker 1: you talk, I feel like that's something I definitely learned
Speaker 1: from you, because there's been this part of you that's
Speaker 1: just been so open to being all of yourself and
Speaker 1: not having to pick. There was one lyric where you say,
Speaker 1: and why why why you say I stepped off the
Speaker 1: stage with nothing left. All the lies are with my head?
Speaker 1: Think with my head? What were the lies?
Speaker 3: What lights? Is the lyric you get the fans.
Speaker 1: There we go, I message, we go, there we go,
Speaker 1: there we go?
Speaker 3: The lights?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there lies. I heard lies.
Speaker 3: I mean no lies.
Speaker 2: I mean maybe lies internally, but yeah, I think the lights.
Speaker 2: And metaphorically I think it was just more so it
Speaker 2: had so much to do with perception, just this kind
Speaker 2: of instant, just this constant focus on what I look
Speaker 2: like and what I feel like to the world, and
Speaker 2: I needed to I stopped. I didn't even know at
Speaker 2: that point what I felt like and what I looked
Speaker 2: like to myself.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: There was a real like stripping down process that had
Speaker 2: to happen and took me a long time. But up
Speaker 2: until up until, like I would say, like the creation
Speaker 2: of this album, I don't remember the last time I
Speaker 2: felt so like just myself. Probably the last time was
Speaker 2: when I was like nine or ten.
Speaker 1: Wowstly, Yeah, Hey everyone, it's Jay Schatty and I'm throwed
Speaker 1: to announce my podcast tour for the first time ever.
Speaker 1: You can see my on Purpose podcast live and in person.
Speaker 1: Join me in a city near you for meaningful, insightful
Speaker 1: conversations with surprise guests. It could be a celebrity, top
Speaker 1: wellness expert, or a CEO or business leader. We'll dive
Speaker 1: into experiences designed to inspire growth, spark learning, and build
Speaker 1: real connections. I can't wait to see you there. Tickets
Speaker 1: are on cell now, head to Jayshetty dot me and
Speaker 1: get yours today. What was he about nine or ten
Speaker 1: that felt so true?
Speaker 2: Not having the need to like cover the late cover
Speaker 2: the layers of what I was feeling. You know, I
Speaker 2: was just like an expressing ball, you know, like similarly
Speaker 2: to how I'm a Probably I probably like more emotional today,
Speaker 2: similarly to how it was when I was nine, you know.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I guess just that not having the.
Speaker 3: The words and.
Speaker 2: The stories that you've been told, you know, as you
Speaker 2: start to grow up, spinning in my head and just
Speaker 2: expressing truth of who I am. And I'm lucky too,
Speaker 2: man Like. I know that a lot of people they're
Speaker 2: not surrounded by people who are maybe super accepting or
Speaker 2: embracing of that truth, and I know that's hard, and
Speaker 2: I think I have a lot of compassion for that.
Speaker 2: And the reality is that I wasn't around a lot
Speaker 2: of people who were. And I think part of starting
Speaker 2: to just like strip back those layers is also to
Speaker 2: just maneuver the people you're around in your life and
Speaker 2: starting to be around people who you can be like
Speaker 2: that with, and it just becomes kind of a feedback
Speaker 2: loop of positive, honest reinforcement. And then you know, you
Speaker 2: look around one day and you're like, Oh, all these
Speaker 2: people in this room like really love Sean, you know.
Speaker 1: Walk me through that discomfort, because I think it's easy
Speaker 1: to jump from. Like I canceled tour too. I'm in
Speaker 1: the studio making new music and we both know it
Speaker 1: wasn't like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, not at all.
Speaker 1: I walk me through. So one thing in the discomfort
Speaker 1: you're saying is surrounding yourself with people that allow you
Speaker 1: to be yourself. Yeah, you to be and figure it out.
Speaker 1: What else were like really important kind of principles that
Speaker 1: guided you through that no man's land, through that desert
Speaker 1: of time? What was it for you that kind of
Speaker 1: showed you that nought style when things were dark?
Speaker 3: So many things.
Speaker 2: Like, you know, I think the process of like healing
Speaker 2: and moving through a dense moment in your life is
Speaker 2: not just sticking to one thing. It's really using everything
Speaker 2: at your fingertips. And whether that was therapy or whether
Speaker 2: that was like friendship, or it was reading, or it
Speaker 2: was music or what it was you know, Uh, it
Speaker 2: was just a mixture of all of it. And I
Speaker 2: think the hardest thing for me and my life has
Speaker 2: been this kind of wanting to always have the perception
Speaker 2: of like strength and altogether kind of grounded and still,
Speaker 2: you know. And when I started to like allow myself
Speaker 2: to really I think it's like it really you got
Speaker 2: to really feel pain to like let your ego get
Speaker 2: out of the way when you when you when I
Speaker 2: started to really allow myself to like lean on my
Speaker 2: family and my friends and.
Speaker 3: Also like.
Speaker 2: Just reach out to people and be like, you know,
Speaker 2: that was just such a huge part of it. You know,
Speaker 2: I didn't know at the time, but just using using
Speaker 2: the people around me to support me was a huge
Speaker 2: huge part of it. And yeah, not and being open
Speaker 2: to not knowing how to get through it and just
Speaker 2: letting people maybe help me how they can, you know,
Speaker 2: and they might have their own way. And yeah, the
Speaker 2: people a song on the album called Heavy, and it's
Speaker 2: just so much of it. It's just about letting people
Speaker 2: who love you help you. You know, it's a hard
Speaker 2: People talk a lot about it's hard to give love.
Speaker 2: It's hard to be in that state. But man like
Speaker 2: receiving love, Like when love is in front of you
Speaker 2: and it's trying to give itself to you through someone,
Speaker 2: that's a hard thing to receive.
Speaker 3: It's really hard.
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people, including myself, just like
Speaker 2: want to freeze up. And so my new thing is
Speaker 2: kind of like instead of walking into a room when
Speaker 2: I'm feeling bad holding it, the first thing I'll do
Speaker 2: is just like literally like lean on someone like physically,
Speaker 2: like hey can I can I have some love and
Speaker 2: I need it? And that changes it like shifts so much,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's so powerful. Yeah, that's so powerful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1: And I feel like I remember in the beginning when
Speaker 1: we'd hang out if you weren't feeling good, they'd be
Speaker 1: a part of you be like I don't think.
Speaker 3: I want to hang out you Yeah, yeah exactly, And
Speaker 3: then that.
Speaker 1: Switch of what you're saying where it's like, oh no,
Speaker 1: no matter how I feel, Yeah, I need to lean
Speaker 1: and I love that and that's freeing.
Speaker 2: Like if I can only hang out with you when
Speaker 2: I'm feeling still in at peace and coming from a
Speaker 2: very high perspective, I am like I got three percent
Speaker 2: of the time, you know, like and I think even
Speaker 2: for doing.
Speaker 3: Something like this podcast.
Speaker 2: I mean when we first met each other, I used
Speaker 2: to be like, oh, I got to get to this
Speaker 2: degree of you know, calm and understanding of life. And
Speaker 2: the reality is I don't have a deeper understanding of life.
Speaker 2: I just have a deeper acceptance of self. And that
Speaker 2: allows me to sit here and be like, hey, like here, here,
Speaker 2: it is here, this is what we got, you know,
Speaker 2: and that has changed everything to me. It frees you
Speaker 2: from so much, you know, you can kind of just
Speaker 2: be like, hey, this is That's actually a huge part
Speaker 2: of it. I used to before I would get out
Speaker 2: of a car and go into a social situation, or
Speaker 2: before I would I just would say like, I'm as,
Speaker 2: I'm moving as fast as I can. I cannot be
Speaker 2: healing any quicker than this.
Speaker 3: I'm this is it. I'm here, So let's just let's
Speaker 3: be this, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, and it trips us up. I feel like
Speaker 1: we just, yeah, we're trying to be something we're not,
Speaker 1: or trying to be something we're not feeling.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're trying to feel.
Speaker 1: Something we don't genuinely feel in the moment, whether it's
Speaker 1: us trying to be more confident, trying to be more calm,
Speaker 1: trying to be more whatever else it may be fill
Speaker 1: in the blank.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it.
Speaker 1: Lets us down and.
Speaker 2: Wand letting yourself down too. You know there's a part
Speaker 2: of you that you're just like telling yourself. You're telling
Speaker 2: that part of yourself like you're not good enough to
Speaker 2: be around these people or to be in front of
Speaker 2: this camera.
Speaker 1: You know, what was the hardest question you had to
Speaker 1: ask yourself during this whole period, Like, what was the
Speaker 1: question that you asked yourself the most often that you
Speaker 1: sought the answer for?
Speaker 3: Was just like general direction.
Speaker 2: I remember so many times I was just like driving
Speaker 2: my car aimlessly and I would just be like literally,
Speaker 2: I think the verbatim words I said out of my
Speaker 2: mouth were like you're exactly where you're supposed to be,
Speaker 2: Like you're exactly where you're meant to be, Like this
Speaker 2: is I know it might not look like what you
Speaker 2: thought it was supposed to look like. It might not
Speaker 2: feel like what you thought, but like something about this
Speaker 2: is uh is it? And there was just a lot
Speaker 2: of beautiful things that happened in that time. Like I
Speaker 2: moved to la and I didn't really have a lot
Speaker 2: of people around at that time. And I remember I
Speaker 2: went to this coffee shop every morning and I got this,
Speaker 2: I got a coffee. And as I was like sitting
Speaker 2: there telling myself this, you know, I saw this one guy,
Speaker 2: his name is Josh, he's great human and was reading
Speaker 2: this book it's called When Things Fall Apart he basically read.
Speaker 2: He was reading that book for two years, sitting on
Speaker 2: the coffee shop and I went up to him, said,
Speaker 2: what's this book?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: He introduced me to another friend and another friend, and
Speaker 2: by the time after I knew it was like every
Speaker 2: day there's three or four of us would sit around
Speaker 2: having coffee and it was like just little group therapy sessions,
Speaker 2: and it just became the most the best thing in
Speaker 2: the world world to me. It was like nine am,
Speaker 2: We're gonna go talk it out.
Speaker 3: And it was exactly.
Speaker 2: Where I was supposed to be at that time, and
Speaker 2: it was so weird and awkward and uncomfortable, but it man,
Speaker 2: it really, yeah, really that little thing changed my life.
Speaker 1: It was funny because I'd always people wuld always tell
Speaker 1: me I just saw sure and hang around a coffee
Speaker 1: shop like this.
Speaker 2: I sit there, like you can see the mayor of
Speaker 2: the coffee shop.
Speaker 1: And it's start to become like this this thing where
Speaker 1: everyone would like watch it and be like, what's going
Speaker 1: on here? Uh? And I feel like you you really
Speaker 1: took shelter in like building your men's circle and your
Speaker 1: men's group and having that ability to have, you know,
Speaker 1: a group of men around you that you could be
Speaker 1: honest with and with What was what was unique about that?
Speaker 1: Like why was that such an interesting thing to build?
Speaker 1: Because I know you'd always talk to me about that
Speaker 1: as well, this yeah group that you were nourishing and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like I had a couple I had, you know,
Speaker 2: I have I had this this kind of coffee men's group,
Speaker 2: and I had this other beautiful men's group simultaneously happening.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, just having like men from
Speaker 2: all ages, from all parts of the world to do
Speaker 2: all different things like really just show up and strip
Speaker 2: it all back and just be brave in front of you.
Speaker 2: I remember like one someone something, someone something I don't
Speaker 2: know told me, like when someone is sharing something hard
Speaker 2: with you, like nine times out of ten, you don't
Speaker 2: have to say anything back because the most healing part
Speaker 2: about that experience is just to be witnessed in your pain.
Speaker 2: And I think it's just that it's like to be
Speaker 2: witnessed in your pain and for the person in front
Speaker 2: of you not to be like I don't want this.
Speaker 2: It's just for them to you know, when do you
Speaker 2: open your eyes and the pain is over and you
Speaker 2: look up and they're still.
Speaker 3: There, like, hey man, still here?
Speaker 2: You know, that's beyond you know, So in simple ways
Speaker 2: like that, that's been a huge part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I like that you were playing that role
Speaker 1: while you were receiving that. I think there's something really
Speaker 1: interesting about that.
Speaker 3: It's empowering.
Speaker 2: You're simultaneously being vulnerable and then also listening to other
Speaker 2: people go through their stories and you're empowered to be
Speaker 2: strong and hold for them. And it's just a beautiful process,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Because I think a lot of us feel like when I.
Speaker 3: Get there, I'll be strong enough and I'll be strong
Speaker 3: enough to.
Speaker 1: Hold space for others. It's almost like this simultaneous mutual
Speaker 1: holding is what we all need. And you're actually only
Speaker 1: going to be better at holding others if you allow
Speaker 1: yourself to be held and if you practice holding others
Speaker 1: even when you have nothing to hold them with exactly,
Speaker 1: and that balance is what creates that structure, that foundation
Speaker 1: that you're resting on.
Speaker 3: The roots.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were talking about this, You're talking about heavy
Speaker 1: and in the song you say it's been so heavy,
Speaker 1: it's been so long running from everything and nothing at all.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that a lot. It was like,
Speaker 1: so often we think things are so heavy and there's
Speaker 1: so much going on, and then at the same time
Speaker 1: you're like, but it's not. Yeah there, look me through
Speaker 1: that dilemma, because.
Speaker 3: The constant dilemma. It's like, in.
Speaker 2: Reality, there is a lot going on, and then also
Speaker 2: in reality it's okay oftentimes too. You know, it's that
Speaker 2: internal perspective that you're going through. And I felt like, yeah,
Speaker 2: just running when you have the money and the ability
Speaker 2: to be on the constant move and run. I just ran,
Speaker 2: and I was just never still and it was like
Speaker 2: I couldn't figure out how to get away from the
Speaker 2: feeling that was that was feeling so bad, and at
Speaker 2: some point I was just like, okay, you know. A
Speaker 2: friend of mine was like, hey, man, wherever you go,
Speaker 2: there you are. And at that point I was just like, okay,
Speaker 2: I gotta let it kind of hit me, you know,
Speaker 2: And yeah, that was just a big part of it.
Speaker 2: It's just, like I said, the realization that like when
Speaker 2: you kind of move all of the stuff out of
Speaker 2: the way, it just kind of kind of it just
Speaker 2: drops into the truth. It's really hard to get to
Speaker 2: that place when all of the noise gets out of
Speaker 2: the way.
Speaker 3: It's very hard to get to that state.
Speaker 2: But sometimes when you do, it allows you to look
Speaker 2: around and be like, Okay, actually it's okay.
Speaker 1: You know, well, you're running away from fame? Was it
Speaker 1: was it? What was it? What did you feel you
Speaker 1: were running away from? Did you Was there a point
Speaker 1: where you're like, I don't want to be famous, like
Speaker 1: I don't want to have the platform.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think just like more of like what
Speaker 2: I felt like the fame was doing to my mind,
Speaker 2: and I was I was letting it do to my mind,
Speaker 2: and it all was based around perception and just all
Speaker 2: I wanted to feel was comfortable in my own body,
Speaker 2: you know, and like not rowling in my skin, from
Speaker 2: like every word that would come out of my mouth
Speaker 2: to the way I would sit in a chair, everything,
Speaker 2: you know. And I think it just takes time because
Speaker 2: the reality is that if you spend your life around
Speaker 2: cameras and around social media and around people who are
Speaker 2: constantly talking about the way you look, the way you sound,
Speaker 2: the way you act in a way that has more
Speaker 2: to do with a performance and perception than that is
Speaker 2: what you're going to be focused on. And you really,
Speaker 2: if you're stuck in that spending, you need to put
Speaker 2: yourself around people who are like doing the opposite of that,
Speaker 2: who are like not worried about how you're acting, not
Speaker 2: worried about what you're saying, not worried about how you're
Speaker 2: sitting and just existing, you know.
Speaker 3: And I had to.
Speaker 2: Just reconnect with that, and that's that's why I name
Speaker 2: the album Sean Too Like, And you know, I just
Speaker 2: felt like, yeah, just that that process of stripping just
Speaker 2: took so long, and a lot of it is just
Speaker 2: like I think, a lot of it is.
Speaker 3: This idea of who.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be in this world, you know, this
Speaker 2: like this image of perfection, and I just like, even
Speaker 2: right now, I'm just like, oh, man, like, thank God
Speaker 2: for everything, because I'm sitting here and I really am
Speaker 2: not having tons of intrusive thoughts about like is how
Speaker 2: are you saying the right thing? Are you doing the
Speaker 2: right thing? It just it just is, you know, and
Speaker 2: I'm just grateful for that. It's a nice feeling. I
Speaker 2: just got to like check on that for a second.
Speaker 1: You know. I'm glad you're feeling that way. That's what
Speaker 1: I say what I was doing the intro. I mean,
Speaker 1: I felt that way because we always talk about these
Speaker 1: things anyway. Yeah, it's even strange having all this stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this is And it was funny because I was
Speaker 1: noticing something that was happening in our conversation. I'd be
Speaker 1: halfway through a thought and you'd lead on it, let
Speaker 1: me ask the question. Sorry no, And I was like,
Speaker 1: but that's what would do, like we would never we
Speaker 1: would never have perfect pa. And I was liking that,
Speaker 1: like I was appreciating that. I was noticing it, going, oh,
Speaker 1: this is really nice. I'm not even finishing my thought
Speaker 1: and Sean already knows what I'm about to say, and
Speaker 1: I was like that, I'm glad that we're doing that
Speaker 1: and that you know, when we started this, like my
Speaker 1: you know, it was like I was like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't want this. This doesn't need to be a performance
Speaker 1: because there is, because it's real. There doesn't need to
Speaker 1: be that. And so I keep doing it as what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and I'm happy that you're feeling there's no
Speaker 1: intrusive thoughts. I mean, you know, I think that constant
Speaker 1: filtering that we always live in is exhausting.
Speaker 3: It's exhausting, man.
Speaker 1: And I remember, like you told me about some of
Speaker 1: the pressures back then that came from different sources of like, oh,
Speaker 1: if you want to be the biggest artist, then you
Speaker 1: have to do this. If you don't do this now,
Speaker 1: then you won't be as big as so and so whatever,
Speaker 1: like you know, and it's so and I was thinking
Speaker 1: about that, and you know, when I met you, you were whatever,
Speaker 1: like twenty two years old or something, and it's like
Speaker 1: you're like, gosh, like hearing that as a twenty two
Speaker 1: year old and then you hear about like you know,
Speaker 1: TikTokers who are taking off and they're hearing about it
Speaker 1: eighteen years old, sixteen years old and you probably heard it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you start at fifteen like that can really push
Speaker 1: someone into only caring about those things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, what did.
Speaker 1: That stripping away look like? Where Like we always talk
Speaker 1: about this, like you look great, you're dressing well, you know,
Speaker 1: the hair looks good. Like, how have you got to
Speaker 1: a point where like you can care? Yeah? Then still, I.
Speaker 3: Think that's part of it. Actually, honestly, I can.
Speaker 2: My tendency is to be very extreme, and a lot
Speaker 2: of what I work on in therapy is just finding
Speaker 2: this middle ground, is to not be in these black
Speaker 2: and white binaries, you know, And I oftentimes I went
Speaker 2: from like, you know, wanting to look like the image
Speaker 2: of perfection to like I'm just going to go be
Speaker 2: a man in the woods and like I don't care
Speaker 2: what I look like, I don't care what you think.
Speaker 2: And there's a good period I'm sure of paparazzi photos
Speaker 2: where people could tell, you know.
Speaker 3: And we'll find them in Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think like it took me a long time
Speaker 2: to also come back around to just like caring about
Speaker 2: how you look and caring about that type of stuff.
Speaker 2: There's nothing wrong with that, you know. It's actually a
Speaker 2: beautiful thing. It's just when you start to be completely
Speaker 2: consumed by it. And so I started to find a
Speaker 2: middle ground again where I was like, Okay, you know
Speaker 2: what you can care, just like don't kill yourself caring,
Speaker 2: you know, and yeah, it's just yeah, the extremes they
Speaker 2: don't work for me anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't really work for any of us.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, they don't, man, they don't. The second
Speaker 2: you can start allowing room for complete like paradox to
Speaker 2: exist in your life and like two things to like
Speaker 2: the number one thing I say in therapy is yeah,
Speaker 2: I know I'm feeling this and I'm also feeling this
Speaker 2: at the same time, and that's okay.
Speaker 3: And that's just like it's just creating more space all
Speaker 3: the time.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: You have this song Hot of Gold. This was something
Speaker 1: that stood out to me. You say, I'm sorry I
Speaker 1: wasn't there to hug your mama at the funeral. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't cry. I didn't even feel the pain. Then
Speaker 1: it hit me all at once when we talked about
Speaker 1: it yesterday. Yeah, walked me through who that was what
Speaker 1: happened there?
Speaker 2: When I was young, when I was like twelve thirteen,
Speaker 2: I had a friend his name was Daomi. My friend Brian,
Speaker 2: you know Brian, him and I and Diomi were just
Speaker 2: great friends and we, uh we spent a lot of
Speaker 2: time together, and he was awesome dude. He was a
Speaker 2: lot like me. He's like very sensitive dude, and just
Speaker 2: like I really really connected with him. And when I
Speaker 2: was fifteen, obviously got signed, started making music and you know,
Speaker 2: went off and started touring, and then him and Diomi
Speaker 2: and I just kind of started to disconnect. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly how old I was, but I
Speaker 2: think I was about you know, I was like probably
Speaker 2: like fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and Brian, you know, would call
Speaker 2: me and say like hey, he would say, you know,
Speaker 2: Diomi's gotten into drugs and stuff, and just thinking about
Speaker 2: his mom. His mom's name is Gail, and you know,
Speaker 2: hoping that she sees the beauty and the story of
Speaker 2: talking about him and I hope it's okay. But you know,
Speaker 2: when I was like eighteen, around eighteen, Brian called me
Speaker 2: one day and he said, hey, man, dooe me, he
Speaker 2: passed away in his sleep last night, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 2: he overdosed. He and I remember when I heard it.
Speaker 2: Brian was on the phone crying, and I was just
Speaker 2: kind of like somewhere on tour, and uh, I just
Speaker 2: like felt numb, like I didn't really feel anything, you know,
Speaker 2: and just like hung up and I just kind of
Speaker 2: went on with everything, and time just went on. And
Speaker 2: sitting in the studio about you know, three months ago,
Speaker 2: and I keep hearing this kind of title it's Heart
Speaker 2: of Gold, and asking myself like what is this song about?
Speaker 3: Is this song about? And Scott, who I make a
Speaker 3: lot of music with. He looks over.
Speaker 2: I mean, he goes, didn't you have a friend who
Speaker 2: passed away from an overdose? And second he said that
Speaker 2: Brian was in the room. Brian goes talking about Diomi,
Speaker 2: And yeah, the second he said Diomi's name, it's just
Speaker 2: like hit me, Like years of like not processing it
Speaker 2: just like all hit me. And we sat there and
Speaker 2: sobbed and yeah, the song, man, it was a hard
Speaker 2: song to write, and it just felt like a letter.
Speaker 2: It felt like a letter to my friend that I
Speaker 2: never got to the things I never got to say
Speaker 2: to him. And you know, I imagine that like when
Speaker 2: you die of an overdose, especially as someone as sweet
Speaker 2: and kind and loving as him, like you kind of
Speaker 2: wake up wherever you wake up, and there potentially is
Speaker 2: this moment of like what happened, you know, Not that
Speaker 2: he needs it, but it just felt like a good
Speaker 2: opportunity to just be like, hey man, we love you
Speaker 2: and you had a heart of gold and and we're
Speaker 2: here down here thinking about you, and yeah, it's one
Speaker 2: of my favorite songs to play.
Speaker 3: Man, it just is.
Speaker 2: Uh it's just this beautiful golden light and he is
Speaker 2: just like this super swaggy dude, and it just like
Speaker 2: it holds his energy and it's just like every time
Speaker 2: we play it, I just imagine this huge golden light
Speaker 2: beaming up from the place we're in wherever he is,
Speaker 2: just reaching him and uh, yeah, I love that song.
Speaker 2: Little I can play I can play it for you
Speaker 2: on the on the song, but yeah, man, I love.
Speaker 1: That song as well. I was, Yeah, I was intrigued
Speaker 1: because that wasn't something I was aware of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny, man, like how these things are when
Speaker 2: you're open to the truth and what wants to come
Speaker 2: out of you and what wants to be made.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it h it's unexpected and it was extremely healing.
Speaker 2: It's still very healing to just like sing that song
Speaker 2: out to him every every time I play it.
Speaker 1: Now, have you played it for his family?
Speaker 3: I haven't.
Speaker 2: Actually, I have to go back to Pickering and play
Speaker 2: it for his mom.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, how do you think she'll react?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I think she'll love it. She's
Speaker 3: an amazing human being.
Speaker 2: I always had an amazing connection with her, and so
Speaker 2: I could see her just like she's just a badass,
Speaker 2: just totally rock into it and loving it.
Speaker 3: And yeah, special family, special human.
Speaker 1: It's nice to immortalize it in a song, and it
Speaker 1: is mortalize him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It is really really nice. I never
Speaker 3: wrote about death in that way before. So yeah, was it?
Speaker 1: Was it a process of forgiving yourself for not having
Speaker 1: for Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was a lot of it.
Speaker 2: A lot of it was the guilt for not reaching out,
Speaker 2: or the guilt for not being there for him, or
Speaker 2: even more so, just the guilt for not being at
Speaker 2: his funeral and seeing his mom and all this stuff.
Speaker 2: And music has this funny way of healing and a
Speaker 2: way that other things can't, you know. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: can't wait to play for his mom. Honestly, I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait for you to tell me I well,
Speaker 1: I can imagine it just being like this, yeah, really
Speaker 1: special moment, and I think, you know, it's it's so
Speaker 1: human that, like you know, there's there's so many things
Speaker 1: we we go through that we're not ready to process
Speaker 1: something yet, and then we feel guilty that we weren't
Speaker 1: ready when we almost feel we needed to be. But
Speaker 1: then you realize that actually, when you were ready to
Speaker 1: process it, something more beautiful came from for everyone. I
Speaker 1: think I spoke to him about him, but one of
Speaker 1: my monk friends passed away from cancer. My closest friend
Speaker 1: during my time in the monastery passed away a couple
Speaker 1: of years back. He was maybe a year older than me,
Speaker 1: had colon cancer, and I couldn't go back to see
Speaker 1: him because it was the pandemic when it happened, and
Speaker 1: I couldn't fly back. I couldn't be by his side.
Speaker 1: It couldn't be there with him. And in the last
Speaker 1: few weeks to months of his experience of it, he
Speaker 1: wasn't even in a place to do like phone calls
Speaker 1: or you know. And I spoke to him three days
Speaker 1: before he passed away on the phone and he was
Speaker 1: like crouched over because he was in so much pain physically,
Speaker 1: and so I couldn't even look at him. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I always carried that as like I wasn't there by
Speaker 1: his side. I should have been, I could have been.
Speaker 1: And it's been something that when I was listening to
Speaker 1: it and I heard that, that's what I was thinking about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's strange because you kind of bury it until you're
Speaker 1: ready to look at it. Yeah, and sometimes you don't
Speaker 1: even know if you're ready to look at it yet,
Speaker 1: like what part of it. And it's I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I think music's the only thing that can get in there,
Speaker 1: get into that complexity of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's grieving is just a complex thing, probably lasts
Speaker 2: a lifetime.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful that it came to you in that moment
Speaker 1: and that you were able to Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad you related to it.
Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, no, I mean I relate to in so
Speaker 1: many ways. I mean, even even grieving, Like I think
Speaker 1: grief as we talk about obviously this is talking about
Speaker 1: the loss of a friend and mine too, but I
Speaker 1: think grieving is also like I was at my sister's
Speaker 1: wedding last year, and my sister's one of my favorite
Speaker 1: people on the planet, one of my best friend. She
Speaker 1: knows everything about me. She's four and a half years
Speaker 1: younger than me.
Speaker 3: Weilar sister vibes. Yeah, same with mine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's just like I love her to bits and
Speaker 1: she's like she's like my little brother. Actually, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: how unfortunately she's been treated. But you know, I was
Speaker 1: at our wedding last year and I left the UK.
Speaker 1: I left London eight years ago now, and we've kept
Speaker 1: in touch and we've kept our relationship like we're as
Speaker 1: tight as ever, so it hasn't been affected. But it
Speaker 1: was really funny because I was at her wedding and
Speaker 1: I was just like sobbing the whole time, and I
Speaker 1: have to show you, can I show I wasn't even
Speaker 1: planning on doing this, but now that I remember, I
Speaker 1: think I just showed it to my team the other
Speaker 1: day because my sister was just with me and she.
Speaker 3: I don't even have it on hand of me crying
Speaker 3: at my sister's wedding.
Speaker 1: I have to show you. It was just wait, sorry,
Speaker 1: I wasn't prepared for this. That's why it's genuinely in
Speaker 1: the moment. I'm trying to make sure that I have
Speaker 1: it man so good, and then zoom out to see Roddie's.
Speaker 3: Oh man, it's really good. I've never seen your face.
Speaker 3: Oh man, that is so good.
Speaker 2: That is an unreal photo. There's so much happening on
Speaker 2: your face. There's a whole story on your face.
Speaker 1: Rather's like taking a picture, taking a picture. And then
Speaker 1: I made her cry and that was yeah good. But
Speaker 1: what I'm getting to is this idea of like I
Speaker 1: was at my sister's wedding thinking it was going to
Speaker 1: be completely normal, and it wasn't because I started to
Speaker 1: realize that when I left London, I had to switch off.
Speaker 1: Partly I was connected with her and I loved her.
Speaker 1: We talked all the time. There was a part of
Speaker 1: my emotional connection to my family that I had to
Speaker 1: turn off because if I thought about it every day
Speaker 1: in New York and then lay, you couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it because I didn't have any family
Speaker 1: and friends in New York and La and I didn't
Speaker 1: I didn't know how my life was going to go,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know what I was going to do.
Speaker 1: And I was like, if I stayed too connected emotional,
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to run back. And then I
Speaker 1: remember I went back to my house, my parents home,
Speaker 1: me and my sister grew up and it was the
Speaker 1: first time she wasn't there, and I last Christmas, like,
Speaker 1: I felt like I was alone, fully alone, and it
Speaker 1: was so strange because I was like, what is going on?
Speaker 1: And it was all these feelings I denied or put
Speaker 1: away or hidden from myself because it was too uncomfortable
Speaker 1: to go there. And they all just came up with
Speaker 1: my sister leaving and getting married and all the rest
Speaker 1: of it. And so I think grieving also is also
Speaker 1: the loss of a former life, the loss of a
Speaker 1: former self, the loss of There's so much to it
Speaker 1: that I think you bring up in that song that
Speaker 1: at least you got me thinking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, grief is a really really complex, interesting thing.
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's beautiful, man. I love that photo so much.
Speaker 1: I was ended to you, please, I said afterwards, that's
Speaker 1: so good. I wanted to talk to you a bit
Speaker 1: about you know, and I hope you don't mind doing
Speaker 1: an album at all, because I think it's to me.
Speaker 1: I always get happy when I can. You know your
Speaker 1: music's so healing for me, and I know it's going
Speaker 1: to be so healing for people. Actually, actually talked to
Speaker 1: me about that because you had fifteen fans in here, yeah,
Speaker 1: last night night, and that was the first time you
Speaker 1: played this album to them. I wasn't here for that,
Speaker 1: so I want to hear about.
Speaker 3: Oh man, what was that?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: It was really special. It was just like so.
Speaker 2: It was my first time really telling the story of
Speaker 2: all the songs, you know, and it was just a
Speaker 2: sobbing fest. Everyone was sobbing and everyone was crying. And
Speaker 2: it's just another reminder that like, greatness is not one person.
Speaker 2: It really is just so many things happening and aligning
Speaker 2: to make something special.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like the end of the night. Like when I
Speaker 2: look around, I'm like, oh, the can't and those are
Speaker 2: lit and like all the people in the room, the
Speaker 2: fans in there, like the friends who've come, like our
Speaker 2: friends who are amazing chefs who've come and made this
Speaker 2: amazing meal for them, and like there's flowers around, like
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't do any of this and my band,
Speaker 2: Like there are all these humans who are so amazing
Speaker 2: who come together to make something special happen. And when
Speaker 2: you like make room for that and give space for
Speaker 2: that collective effort to be felt.
Speaker 3: Oh it was just.
Speaker 2: Like and on top of that, just like the album itself,
Speaker 2: we put so much effort into just the stories and
Speaker 2: the truth of it that I felt like my job
Speaker 2: was so easy. All they had to do was represent
Speaker 2: the song. All they had to do was speak the
Speaker 2: truth of what we wrote about and perform it that
Speaker 2: way and move on like there was the greatest show
Speaker 2: ever was already wrote before we started, and I just
Speaker 2: had to step into it, you know. And I think
Speaker 2: that's such a I think that's such a representation also
Speaker 2: just of like for me, like as a performer, like
Speaker 2: I have had a really hard time, you know, when
Speaker 2: A I am carrying the weight of everything on my shoulders,
Speaker 2: when I'm the one when I'm telling myself this being
Speaker 2: fantastic all realized, all comes down to me. If I'm
Speaker 2: not fantastic, it all doesn't matter, which is not true
Speaker 2: at all. And the more I take that weight off
Speaker 2: of me, the more fantastic it becomes. And b when
Speaker 2: the art I've chosen to create comes from such a
Speaker 2: truthful place, the show.
Speaker 3: You play is so much easier. It just like it
Speaker 3: supports you.
Speaker 2: It feels like you just have the lift of the truth,
Speaker 2: you know, and you can't rush that stuff.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day.
Speaker 2: You cannot rush art and music and you have to
Speaker 2: really allow it. And the fans last night they were like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, at the end of the show, they're like, hey, like,
Speaker 2: if this is the type of music back with, take
Speaker 2: as much time as you need. And so it was
Speaker 2: so sweet. Yeah, it was so special for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like when I'm listening to this album,
Speaker 1: it feels like I'm listening to a friend talk to
Speaker 1: me about what they've been going through that we're catching
Speaker 1: up on a call. Good and I'm listening to a
Speaker 1: friend just hearing about what's going on in their life
Speaker 1: and how they're thinking about it.
Speaker 3: Good, That's that's perfect.
Speaker 1: Then, that's how And I feel like that's it's so
Speaker 1: beautiful And it's obviously so hard to do because you're
Speaker 1: doing it at you know, everyone's feeling that way and
Speaker 1: so that's not easy. And continuing our tour of the album,
Speaker 1: you talk about you know, loving relationships, which is a
Speaker 1: romantic relationship, which is such a big part of your
Speaker 1: own journey, and we've talked about this. It's such a
Speaker 1: it's such a sensitive part of our hearts, Like such
Speaker 1: a like. It's almost like society has also made it
Speaker 1: more more sensitive, like on such a pedestal, as I
Speaker 1: often talked about recently. I was just saying this to
Speaker 1: someone the other day who's going through something, and I
Speaker 1: was saying that they've always overvalued and overweighted romantic.
Speaker 3: Love instead of just generated the general love.
Speaker 1: And you know, in your song in Between, you say,
Speaker 1: if I'm not all in, then I'm all out, And
Speaker 1: it's never going to happen. If it doesn't happen right now,
Speaker 1: if it doesn't end with the ring, is it just sex,
Speaker 1: If it isn't black and white, then it's onto the next.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't think of how many people can
Speaker 1: relate to that experience, and how many people when they
Speaker 1: hear that, are going to think, that's my life, that's me,
Speaker 1: walk me through what you're experiencing, what you're going through,
Speaker 1: and you're writing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for me, I'm definitely one of those people who
Speaker 2: has over put way too much weight on the romantic
Speaker 2: part of love. Doing that has done to many things.
Speaker 2: That's suffocated love. It has closed the door to any
Speaker 2: other kind of love that I could be receiving. I
Speaker 2: guess there comes a point where there came a point
Speaker 2: of the last couple years, I was just like I
Speaker 2: realized life is hard, Like this thing is too long
Speaker 2: and too hard to like not just not just be
Speaker 2: open to the love that's in front of you asking
Speaker 2: to be received right now, you know. And that was
Speaker 2: kind of what I was writing about there is isn't
Speaker 2: it enough just to have someone.
Speaker 3: Share a moment with you of love?
Speaker 2: And it's hard at first because it's like it's really
Speaker 2: vulnerable to like allow that because all the things come
Speaker 2: in is like is this romantic?
Speaker 3: Is this this? And is this going to be forever?
Speaker 3: Is this going? What does this mean? You know?
Speaker 2: Is this weird because you're you're with someone and we're
Speaker 2: having a beautiful connection.
Speaker 3: What is that? I mean? Is this bad? Is this wrong?
Speaker 2: And all of that can exist at the same time
Speaker 2: and it's okay. And when you start making more space
Speaker 2: for all that complexity to exist, like you start to realize, Wow,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of opportunity for me to feel love
Speaker 2: every day. And I have noticed that my fixation on
Speaker 2: romantic love has dwindled, and I've just been so much more,
Speaker 2: you know, I guess generally feeling that empty space of
Speaker 2: love fill up. And that's just because I think I'm
Speaker 2: more willing to receive it from more places, you know.
Speaker 2: And it's tough too, because we have been watching Disney
Speaker 2: since we were kids, and so we're like, where is
Speaker 2: my forever? You know, And even in the song, like
Speaker 2: you know, I have another song in there where I'm like,
Speaker 2: you're the one and I live for this moment. It's
Speaker 2: like I'm that like tickles apart of us, you like
Speaker 2: love to hear that, and you know, to the end
Speaker 2: of life, I'll be hopeless romantic like that, but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but part of me also has to just know that, yeah,
Speaker 2: love can just it can really be there. You can
Speaker 2: you can experience it. And if you just wait your
Speaker 2: whole life for one person to give it to you,
Speaker 2: you might be let down. And also you might just
Speaker 2: that person might just be so might be so impossible
Speaker 2: for them to feel that for you, you know.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm open to love, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: What's it been like for you having your romantic life
Speaker 1: be so public and then when you break up it's public,
Speaker 1: and then if there's a potential reconnection, it's public. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like that is kind of I mean, for
Speaker 1: anyone I've ever interviewed, for anyone I've ever known, that
Speaker 1: that seems to be one of the hardest things because
Speaker 1: it's brutal for both people, fans, audiences, people in people's
Speaker 1: pri life, like walk me through what that's been like
Speaker 1: and maybe where certain songs felt connected to that experience brutal.
Speaker 2: It's I mean, honestly, I think Camille and I have
Speaker 2: just done the best job at preserving our private little
Speaker 2: fire of love for each other. Because no matter how
Speaker 2: strong mentally you are, when there are millions of people
Speaker 2: commenting on it, it's so hard not to be affected
Speaker 2: by it and to be swayed by it, and to
Speaker 2: be inspired by it, and to desire it because people
Speaker 2: desire it, or to hate it because people hate it,
Speaker 2: and it's just human. And I feel like her and
Speaker 2: I have just like worked extremely hard to just protect
Speaker 2: each other and protect that love, you know, And I've
Speaker 2: learned a lot about that, and it's part of it.
Speaker 2: It's definitely part of it, and there's no getting away
Speaker 2: from that. But if I'm being completely honest, I don't
Speaker 2: really I don't really go on social media anymore, so
Speaker 2: I don't really see or care what people say about
Speaker 2: my love life or my relationships because it's just it's
Speaker 2: honestly too detrimental to the actual relationship itself that I've
Speaker 2: become pretty strict on that part of it, you know,
Speaker 2: But it is It's crazy, man, We're not in a movie.
Speaker 3: This is not a movie.
Speaker 2: Celebrities are, you know, sometimes maybe they think they are,
Speaker 2: and sometimes they literally are. But like it is in
Speaker 2: a movie, this is real life. This is real love,
Speaker 2: and love is confusing and hard and goes through dips, and.
Speaker 3: Goes through pauses, goes through breaks, goes through.
Speaker 2: So much and so yeah, I really feel for everyone
Speaker 2: who goes through that.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I just feel like, as a celebrity, I just want
Speaker 2: to just come at it and be really truthful from
Speaker 2: the place of this is what love is like for me.
Speaker 1: You know, what have you both done? And maybe obviously
Speaker 1: speaking for yourself, what have you done to protect the
Speaker 1: relationship in apart from distancing yourself from the noise? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what else has been useful in protecting whatever relationship may
Speaker 1: be in any faith?
Speaker 2: For me and for us, I think immense honesty, just
Speaker 2: like over communication, you know, Like I felt this way
Speaker 2: when I was doing this interview and I said this thing,
Speaker 2: and I felt weird, and I'm sorry if it came
Speaker 2: off like that, and you know, I love you and
Speaker 2: that's my you know. It just immediately cuts through any
Speaker 2: type of assumption that I could make or she could
Speaker 2: make from anything. And you know, we're both amazing at that.
Speaker 2: I'll be the first to text her, She'll be the
Speaker 2: first to text me, and we just as long as
Speaker 2: we're good, all the noise is just noise. And that's
Speaker 2: been a huge part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So rather than be like, oh, I hope they
Speaker 1: don't see that, or I hope they don't, yeah, it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to tell them what I was while
Speaker 1: I was feeling that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then how do you open yourself up to
Speaker 1: receive that honesty when it isn't comfortable, let's say.
Speaker 2: I think it's also just a part of just understanding
Speaker 2: the situation we're in as and not only as celebrities
Speaker 2: but artists, you know, being two people that make music
Speaker 2: and tell the story of the heart, and that's just
Speaker 2: a big part of it, and we both are very
Speaker 2: aware of that, you know, So just having respect for
Speaker 2: the fact that we're storytellers, you know.
Speaker 1: Wow, and that takes a lot though, Yeah, that takes
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of maturity.
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: That's like a really mature perspective to have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean we've been doing it since we're
Speaker 2: very young, so I think at this point we're just
Speaker 2: like we hopefully just have a great, deep, great respect.
Speaker 2: So I don't think either of us would ever cross
Speaker 2: a line. You know, we deeply respect each other.
Speaker 1: That takes a lot. Man, It's so hard to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, as I've always said to you, you're an
Speaker 1: old soul, because I'm like, I don't people like twice
Speaker 1: your age, maybe even more than that, who struggle with that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so hard to actually have that perspective and understanding
Speaker 1: and respect for someone's personal professional.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, orbit it is.
Speaker 1: It is, And it's hard when it's two people too.
Speaker 1: It's easy for one person to do.
Speaker 3: I'm just lucky.
Speaker 2: She's an amazing human being and she's incredibly understanding and
Speaker 2: thoughtful and caring, so communicating with her is not difficult,
Speaker 2: and I think that's just probably a huge part of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, why does it feel sometimes that you can
Speaker 1: have two people who respect each other so much, connect
Speaker 1: so much, have so much admiration and love for each other,
Speaker 1: but that it's not right romantically, Like, why is that?
Speaker 1: Because you have this beautiful lyric that nobody knows that
Speaker 1: says when you're so in love in your soul's touch,
Speaker 1: but it's still not in love? Where does it go? Like,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's something a lot of people have.
Speaker 3: Been struggled with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. It is a great question.
Speaker 2: I don't have the probably greatest answer for. I think
Speaker 2: that's exactly why I asked, where does it go? Where
Speaker 2: does that love go? When it's so present? And I
Speaker 2: think the best answer I can come up with is
Speaker 2: just that love is a lot, but partnership is more
Speaker 2: than love. And I think it has a lot to
Speaker 2: do with how you support each other in your day
Speaker 2: to day life and really being honest about who you
Speaker 2: are and making sure that someone that you're with is
Speaker 2: in support of that and doesn't have to bend themselves
Speaker 2: entirely to be in support of that, and vice versa,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: And I think.
Speaker 2: It's tough because you can go your whole life and
Speaker 2: never feel that feeling of deep love again. And I
Speaker 2: think it's just really complex. It's been something I think
Speaker 2: people have been trying to figure out for a long time.
Speaker 2: And I just think potentially, you mean, we've talked about
Speaker 2: love a lot. I think potentially we're still all wrapping
Speaker 2: our heads around love and we're still working through such westernized,
Speaker 2: movie romanticized, dramatized versions of it. And if you go
Speaker 2: to places that have been less exposed to that type
Speaker 2: of thinking, then maybe love is a little simpler or
Speaker 2: a little more I don't know.
Speaker 3: And so for me, like, I.
Speaker 2: Just like, hopefully there's a little bit of both. Hopefully
Speaker 2: you can have that spark and that magic and that love,
Speaker 2: and you can also have that compatibility where your two
Speaker 2: lives are working in flow with each other, you know,
Speaker 2: and obviously you're going to have to bend here and there.
Speaker 3: But I think to a degree, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't ask you or anyone because I think someone
Speaker 1: has the an answer. I know. I don't I ask
Speaker 1: because I think when people are navigating something, that's when
Speaker 1: they have the most reflective, variegated view of it. Because
Speaker 1: when you're actually going through it, yeah, you actually can
Speaker 1: at least people can hear themselves in Youah, in your voice,
Speaker 1: and that's what the song does. It's like people listening
Speaker 1: to it going gosh, I'm am I with the right
Speaker 1: person at the wrong time or is it the wrong
Speaker 1: person at the right time or is it.
Speaker 2: And it's a constant question. It's like a constant question
Speaker 2: to be like, I mean that's also part of it,
Speaker 2: is like not it's okay to be unsure, even if
Speaker 2: you're unsure for the rest of your life, Like that
Speaker 2: might be part of it.
Speaker 3: And that's that.
Speaker 1: Yah, yeah, yeah, I mean the art of what you're
Speaker 1: talking about in the album, what you talk about, what
Speaker 1: we've talked about, what you're speaking about, it is just
Speaker 1: this like how do we get comfortable with discomfort? How
Speaker 1: do we get okay with uncertainty? Whether that's and but
Speaker 1: that's like that is the hardest and like you said,
Speaker 1: it's not something that you ever get to. It's something
Speaker 1: you're constantly practicing, like constantly working on it. And I
Speaker 1: feel like romantic love is the one that exposes everything
Speaker 1: because there's love, there's envy, there's comparison, there's competition, Like
Speaker 1: there's so many emotions that it kind of triggers out
Speaker 1: in you. What have you done to manage your discomfort
Speaker 1: uncertainty when it comes.
Speaker 3: To love, or just generally ill to both.
Speaker 1: Yeah, both, yeah, both.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's it's a lot of therapy, honestly,
Speaker 2: and I think for me, it's just I think everyone's different.
Speaker 2: For me, it's really helpful to just speak as practical
Speaker 2: as I can about each situation. This is what's happening,
Speaker 2: and this is what's not happening, and this is what's
Speaker 2: going on, and I'm feeling confused and all this is
Speaker 2: just happening, and that's okay, you know, I think, to
Speaker 2: be honest, it's like, I'm currently not in a relationship,
Speaker 2: so I'm sure I can't wait to be back in
Speaker 2: the love spins that all the emotions getting triggered and
Speaker 2: all this stuff, because being in a relationship is really hard.
Speaker 2: It's I think sometimes it's easier from the place of
Speaker 2: being single to be like in a place of like hey,
Speaker 2: like you know, find the balance, but like, once you're
Speaker 2: in a relationship, it's much harder. It's well, once you
Speaker 2: have something to lose, it's much harder to not have
Speaker 2: a tight grip on it, you know. And so we'll
Speaker 2: see when I'm back in that state.
Speaker 1: No, I love what you're saying, because I've always said
Speaker 1: maybe I've never even said this out loud, but I
Speaker 1: always reflect on like if forever, for whatever reason, and
Speaker 1: not that this is indicative of anything that's happening, but
Speaker 1: if for whatever reason, me and RADI were to ever
Speaker 1: go our separate ways. It's interesting. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people would say, oh, but you told us you
Speaker 1: loved each other. Yeah, and you told us you had
Speaker 1: the perfect relationship, in which I have not. But and
Speaker 1: I don't have a perfect relationship. I've never claimed to
Speaker 1: have one. But the viewpoint becomes but you guys, like,
Speaker 1: you know, Jay, you wrote a book on love, like
Speaker 1: how could you break up with someone? And I'm like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: like that's life, like, that's reality, like, and I think
Speaker 1: we have this view again clarifying there's nothing going on here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, I'm just saying it for an example because
Speaker 1: I think it's so important to address these things, because
Speaker 1: I think we have these very fixed viewpoints of what
Speaker 1: something should be and what something should look like.
Speaker 2: And I think it goes back to just like I
Speaker 2: don't know, like maybe this sounds too idealistic or like optimistic,
Speaker 2: but like I think it goes back to just finding
Speaker 2: what you actually figuring out what it is you actually
Speaker 2: want in life. Like for me, it's like, do I
Speaker 2: want to be in a constant state of like I
Speaker 2: have someone, I have this like this fiery thing that
Speaker 2: always is mine and it you know, it's like more
Speaker 2: of that like ownership that like desire, which is which
Speaker 2: is super enticing and gorgeous and it's in itself.
Speaker 3: Or like what is it that I actually want?
Speaker 2: Or do I want to feel just a general more
Speaker 2: more love from more places? And do I want to
Speaker 2: feel supported and like I'm growing and like I'm being seen?
Speaker 2: And if you really ask yourself that question and then
Speaker 2: you find an answer, you might not, but if you
Speaker 2: find an answer, then you can start moving forward with
Speaker 2: what your answer was. And for me, it was really
Speaker 2: more of just like I really do want to just
Speaker 2: like have a greater I don't want on my ex
Speaker 2: to be in one basket, you know, because I don't
Speaker 2: know how life can go. Like things happen, people die,
Speaker 2: people get sick, people you know, fall out like I
Speaker 2: and I don't want to be I would love nothing
Speaker 2: more than to meet my wife as I walk out
Speaker 2: of the store today, but like at the same time too, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I just want to until that moment, I'd love to
Speaker 2: be experiencing love also, yeah, and I want to just
Speaker 2: wait till then, you know.
Speaker 1: So there's some fans outside waiting now ready to go. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: it's no. I you know what. That's what I've always
Speaker 1: admired about you, and I I'm hearing it today. I
Speaker 1: hear it in the album, like You've just always focused
Speaker 1: on asking good questions. Yeah, and that's like your life,
Speaker 1: Like that's who you are. And I think that it's
Speaker 1: so funny because as humans, we get so fixated on
Speaker 1: the answers, and we get so fixated on just a
Speaker 1: few answers, so we ask the same questions, yeah, like
Speaker 1: will I ever find my person? Is this the right person?
Speaker 1: Like we asked the same questions, and we don't ever
Speaker 1: get any better answers to the same question.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no answer to those questions.
Speaker 1: There's no answer to this question. And what I've seen
Speaker 1: in you is you're always trying to ask like this
Speaker 1: wide array of questions that you know, like where will
Speaker 1: it go? Yeah, like isn't because the normal question to
Speaker 1: that will be like like so when you're so in
Speaker 1: love and your soul's touch, but it's still not in love.
Speaker 1: Where does it go? Most people would go, well, is
Speaker 1: that love or not?
Speaker 3: Does that mean it was love?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, but that's not I don't question that. There's
Speaker 2: a zero doubt in my mind that love is love.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's like where does all that love go to?
Speaker 2: And I think that question itself is like, oh, that
Speaker 2: love is still completely here and able to funnel into
Speaker 2: the same person if they're willing to receive it in
Speaker 2: a different light, or funnel into anyone else around you
Speaker 2: that you love, you know. And but it's also like damn,
Speaker 2: like that absolutely sucks. Like that there's just that is
Speaker 2: just a it just sucks, you know. So I also
Speaker 2: I also might have said, like, doesn't that suck? You
Speaker 2: didn't you didn't But that's all I didn't know. But
Speaker 2: that's something I would have read, Yeah, because it does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly the truth. Yeah, it goes back to your point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: have the truth.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I really want to encourage people to you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm going into my world a bit here, but
Speaker 1: everyone who's listening and watching, I really hope this album
Speaker 1: helps you ask different questions. Yeah, because I feel like
Speaker 1: that's a real strength you have and I've learned through
Speaker 1: being in your company. Man, you don't really ask the
Speaker 1: same questions that we all ask. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what's led you on this beautiful journey and beautiful path
Speaker 1: and been able to look at the same things we
Speaker 1: all go through but in a different lens. Is because
Speaker 1: it's your ability to always zoom out and ask a
Speaker 1: question that isn't the obvious one.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, thank you, And it's really.
Speaker 1: Powerful and I love that it's through music. So yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: I went into a self development person.
Speaker 3: Now, but hey, man, I'm right there. They all know that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. There's a couple more lyrics here that
Speaker 1: I that I love because they're just so powerful in
Speaker 1: the love and relationship space that I have to bring
Speaker 1: them out this year this one. So but what about
Speaker 1: the in betweens you lay your head on me living
Speaker 1: for the next time that we touch. Isn't that enough?
Speaker 1: Talk me through that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think similar kind of to what we were just
Speaker 2: saying is if you're if you're always focused on the highs,
Speaker 2: you might be waiting a while to receive something special,
Speaker 2: you know, And all these all these beautiful in between moments,
Speaker 2: like even like for me allowing myself to kind of
Speaker 2: like love the moment before the show and after the
Speaker 2: show and the morning and.
Speaker 3: All of that.
Speaker 2: Really it does one, it does a lot of things.
Speaker 2: Actually takes pressure off of the show to have to
Speaker 2: be such a big deal. And then it also just
Speaker 2: helps me enjoy the day generally much more. You know,
Speaker 2: if I sit there all day being like, there's one
Speaker 2: important thing today and that's the show. That's basically one
Speaker 2: and an hour and a half two hours of my day,
Speaker 2: what about the rest of it? You know, I want
Speaker 2: to enjoy the in betweens two because they are beautiful,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because otherwise our lives just bookends.
Speaker 3: They're just our life. We look back, it's just the
Speaker 3: highs and lows, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah that well, like yeah, that's yeah. And I find
Speaker 1: like it's also then your life becomes a waiting for yeah,
Speaker 1: And so you're living in constant anticipation or constant anxiety
Speaker 1: for something to end. Yes, And that's the only in
Speaker 1: between you have. It's still linked to a beginning and
Speaker 1: an end. So I'm in anticipation of when will that
Speaker 1: good thing come? And then I'm an anxiety of.
Speaker 3: When will this good thing end? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, one last one which you go so vulnerable and
Speaker 1: you say, where is it? Visions of a naked in
Speaker 1: my head? Head? But I went off and shows my
Speaker 1: self instead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's that's.
Speaker 2: There is a voice maybe you can call it a
Speaker 2: voice or a feeling I think inside of us that
Speaker 2: says sometimes like, this is what you gotta do. You
Speaker 2: gotta do something hard here, you know, and our very
Speaker 2: human side will do everything in its power to get
Speaker 2: you not to do that, and it will just like
Speaker 2: show you images and movies and the best plot you've
Speaker 2: ever you know, seen in your life of the thing,
Speaker 2: and it can really confuse you and just be like
Speaker 2: what have I done? You know, if you are I mean,
Speaker 2: I think a really common thing, actually I've noticed is
Speaker 2: a lot of people who have recently been in a
Speaker 2: breakup would be would tell me like, oh, like I've
Speaker 2: been having dreams of them every single night for three months,
Speaker 2: you know, And.
Speaker 3: I thought that was just me.
Speaker 2: I thought I was just I thought I was the
Speaker 2: only one, and I thought it meant something. And I
Speaker 2: think that it's really common, you know, just for our
Speaker 2: it's part of the process of something and at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, like I think we all we
Speaker 2: can do is try to make the best decision that
Speaker 2: we think is best for ourselves and accept that because
Speaker 2: I'm not going to at the end of my life,
Speaker 2: God's not going to appear and be like, hey, all
Speaker 2: these things you did, those were the right decisions and
Speaker 2: all these ones were the wrong ones. Like that's not
Speaker 2: going to happen. I'm never going to get that. I'm
Speaker 2: never going to get that. So I'm just trying to
Speaker 2: understand that, Like, yeah, I think it's it's just expressing
Speaker 2: that side of just like mental torment when you're going
Speaker 2: through healing, that's just like it wants to.
Speaker 3: Keep you somewhere.
Speaker 2: A big question I ask myself is like, when I
Speaker 2: am struggling to move past something, I ask myself, like,
Speaker 2: what is it that holding on to this thing or
Speaker 2: this person or this way, What is that protecting me from?
Speaker 2: Like what is that way of being protecting me from?
Speaker 2: So many times it comes back to such a similar thing,
Speaker 2: you know, And in relationships it's oftentimes just like oh,
Speaker 2: this feeling of comfort, this feeling of I don't want
Speaker 2: to be alone, you know, and the beautiful thing is
Speaker 2: that if you can kind of move through those feelings,
Speaker 2: on the other end, might be like a grander sense
Speaker 2: of comfort from within yourself, but also a greater diversified
Speaker 2: comfort from many people, and that creates a more consistent
Speaker 2: sense of home and comfort. And it's just like, it's
Speaker 2: just interesting how it all works.
Speaker 1: What about the torment of people who would say, like, well,
Speaker 1: why can't you and come and just make it work
Speaker 1: and just be together and just like come on, you
Speaker 1: love each other so much. All the other side where
Speaker 1: people would say, well, well, if it's not working, just
Speaker 1: let it be, just just throw it away, just forget
Speaker 1: about it, and you're kind of happy to live in
Speaker 1: the torment of like I'm happy to be in the
Speaker 1: in between.
Speaker 2: I think the reality is no one will ever know
Speaker 2: what it's like to be in our bodies and to
Speaker 2: feel what we feel and to know where we know
Speaker 2: we're going, because oftentimes where we know we're going is
Speaker 2: not something we can express through words to other people.
Speaker 2: It's just a sense, a sense of where I'm headed,
Speaker 2: and no one's ever gonna understand that.
Speaker 3: So I just that stuff. There's just noise in the wind.
Speaker 2: For me. It feels like we're talking something so surface
Speaker 2: here about something so immensely deep and complex that it's
Speaker 2: not even worth my time to go into the answer
Speaker 2: those questions, because there's not even an answer to those questions,
Speaker 2: you know, And it's not a sense of I think
Speaker 2: choosing to live in torment. I think it's exactly like
Speaker 2: listening to yourself and trusting that. And I had a
Speaker 2: friend who's going through a hard decision and they asked me, like,
Speaker 2: I said, you just got to follow your intuition, Like
Speaker 2: what does that feel like? And I'm like, well, I
Speaker 2: can't necessarily. I'm like, I don't know, like a like
Speaker 2: a little thing in your stomach or your heart.
Speaker 3: I'm like, I actually don't know.
Speaker 2: Like, but this is clearly exactly the moment that you
Speaker 2: are about to learn what it feels like. And like,
Speaker 2: if you can't find that sense of intuition, then at
Speaker 2: that point, I don't know what guides us.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Also, if you're not sure, you might not be ready
Speaker 2: to make the decision yet, Like there's a pressure to
Speaker 2: make decisions all the time. Like, I understand you don't
Speaker 2: want to waste people's time. I understand you don't want
Speaker 2: to do the wrong thing prematurely, but like, some things
Speaker 2: just need to play themselves out, and it's just I
Speaker 2: think that's just a reality too, you know. So allow
Speaker 2: yourself to get to that place, but don't let yourself
Speaker 2: go over that place.
Speaker 3: Please.
Speaker 1: I'm going to say this to you because I don't
Speaker 1: think I've said this to you before, but but it's
Speaker 1: an interesting reflection I'm having right now. I actually feel
Speaker 1: with you. We get a sense of your old soul
Speaker 1: when I ask you a superficial question and actually, like,
Speaker 1: and I haven't tried to ask any profound questions today
Speaker 1: because that's not my goal, but there's a beautiful simplicity
Speaker 1: of you that comes out out because you would never
Speaker 1: answer a basic, simple question in a basic, simple way.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think actually kind of demonstrates where
Speaker 1: your consciousness is, Yeah, in a beautiful way. And so
Speaker 1: it's just the thought I'm having right now. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm never going to ask you a profound question ever
Speaker 1: again in my life, because that's not it for you.
Speaker 1: For you, your your like essence comes out when you're
Speaker 1: having like a conversation that people woul think is really normal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but you just don't look at it that way. It
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense totally.
Speaker 2: I almost can't compute. It's like the thing happens in
Speaker 2: my head where I can't compute surface and I'm like,
Speaker 2: it's not computing.
Speaker 3: You gotta get we gotta get under it.
Speaker 1: That's how we get to see that you're not computing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I only realized it while having this conversation. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh yeah, like but but yeah, I wanted
Speaker 1: to show you something because I sent it. You can
Speaker 1: you'll probably guess where it's from, which I thought was
Speaker 1: really beautiful.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. Man, it's Tony crying.
Speaker 1: What was he crying about?
Speaker 3: I probably a lot of things.
Speaker 2: He's going through a lot of beautiful things in his
Speaker 2: life right now too. But these are my people, Like
Speaker 2: these are I talk about, Like an album is not
Speaker 2: just about making music, if you let it, it can
Speaker 2: also be about completely changing your life and the relationship
Speaker 2: to the people you've made the album with. Like what
Speaker 2: this has done for me and these guys, it's just
Speaker 2: like they became friendships to lifelong friendships.
Speaker 1: You know, what does it feel like being in this
Speaker 1: room ten years dude? Since like that to me feels
Speaker 1: like such an incredible journey that we're getting to be
Speaker 1: a part of here, Like to sit in here ten
Speaker 1: years older you were what you were sixteen, yeah, fifteen
Speaker 1: going on sixteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember singing treat you Better in here, and
Speaker 2: like I just was, I remember just like so much
Speaker 2: inner torment and so much breakthrough. Like this is a
Speaker 2: place of breakthrough for me. This is always where I'm
Speaker 2: found the wall and I've broken through it and it's
Speaker 2: just a magical little place.
Speaker 1: Dude.
Speaker 2: It's like it's like my version of Hogwarts here, you know,
Speaker 2: it really is, and I can't I'm just so like
Speaker 2: this this time around, Like what I've been really trying
Speaker 2: to do is everything to be really have a lot
Speaker 2: of intention of just like we're here right now, you know,
Speaker 2: and we're upstate and I'm going to play a show
Speaker 2: in a few days. Where I made the album. It's
Speaker 2: like you have to work so much harder to curate
Speaker 2: an experience when you just allow the story. You just
Speaker 2: kind of let the story happen and support that, you know,
Speaker 2: and it just feels like, yeah, I needed a lot
Speaker 2: of holding and even even just through this week, like
Speaker 2: the first little show I did yesterday, like I needed
Speaker 2: to be in this room.
Speaker 3: This room knows how to hold me. And yeah, man, just.
Speaker 2: It's cool. I just love it here. I'll be here
Speaker 2: for many more years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I feel like everyone can find a
Speaker 1: similar place like this for themselves. It may not be
Speaker 1: a place where they record music, but a place that
Speaker 1: they can turn to and come to and be held
Speaker 1: by and be embraced by and feel rooted and feel nourished.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I hope there's access is symbol to encourage
Speaker 1: people to look for that. And it could just be
Speaker 1: a little tree somewhere on a hike. It could just
Speaker 1: what's your take on.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, look for it or be open to the
Speaker 2: fact that you might be in it and you might
Speaker 2: know it very well.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's just having a space.
Speaker 2: That holds the intention of the place you go to
Speaker 2: lay it all out, you know, really like lay it
Speaker 2: all out and break through and and struggle, and not
Speaker 2: all studios feel like this. It's also a beautiful town
Speaker 2: we're into like this town is special and being you know,
Speaker 2: in nature, like that's just like in the winter, it
Speaker 2: gets really different here too.
Speaker 3: It's a whole whole story.
Speaker 1: We've had rain and thunder, and every day it's a
Speaker 1: beautiful I've been looking at it. Yeah, it was raining, Yeah, yeah, Sean.
Speaker 1: You talked about your sister and I talked about mine.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And Elie actually sent us a note.
Speaker 3: No way my sister.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm gonna cry already.
Speaker 1: Is it? Yeah? Crash choked it up.
Speaker 3: Crash looked this up. Oh no, you're ready? Sure, so,
Speaker 3: she says.
Speaker 1: Dear Sean, I want to start by saying a huge
Speaker 1: thank you from the bottom of my heart. Thank you
Speaker 1: for opening up your heart, being brave and sharing your
Speaker 1: incredible gifts with all of us. Thank you for being
Speaker 1: not just a beautiful human but also the most amazing friend, brother, son, mentor,
Speaker 1: and artist. I'm truly at a loss for words to
Speaker 1: describe how proud I am of you, how proud we
Speaker 1: all are. Your music today feels like the most genuine
Speaker 1: and authentic art you've ever created. It's filled with vulnerability, fear, diversity, patience, humility, pain,
Speaker 1: and a sense of home. But above all, it feels
Speaker 1: unapologetically and beautifully you. Watching you grow over the years
Speaker 1: has been such a privilege. I feel extremely lucky to
Speaker 1: be by your side as your little and to be
Speaker 1: a part of this incredible process with you, You've taught
Speaker 1: me so much about connecting with my own heart and body,
Speaker 1: tapping into embracing my truths, and living with more love, perspective,
Speaker 1: and abundance. I absolutely adore your eagerness to learn and
Speaker 1: the way you listen so thoughtfully.
Speaker 3: Eagerness is a kind word.
Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, I really enjoy watching your unique
Speaker 1: YouTube videos with you. Honestly, you're like a real life,
Speaker 1: freaking cool superhero to me. Thank you for having the
Speaker 1: courage to be imperfect and for sharing that with the world.
Speaker 1: Your compassion and kindness, both towards yourself and others are
Speaker 1: real superpowers. We all feel the depth of your connection
Speaker 1: through your authenticity. It shines in everything you do, and
Speaker 1: it's especially powerful in Shoran the album Low. This connection
Speaker 1: you create through your music has helped me feel more
Speaker 1: grounded in my own life, and I know or resume
Speaker 1: with others in just as meaningful a way. It's like
Speaker 1: nine hearts with love so deeply.
Speaker 3: Eliah oh Man, that's so beautiful. Thank you. That means
Speaker 3: a lot. I love you.
Speaker 2: Lena oh Man. Yeah, she is my best friend. Like
Speaker 2: over the last six months, we've just gotten so close
Speaker 2: and my little big sister too. Like I think when
Speaker 2: you start letting your little sister be your big sister sometimes,
Speaker 2: you know, it's such a beautiful experience when you see
Speaker 2: your pain turn into something beautiful. And then people start
Speaker 2: to feel that way, and you got to believe people
Speaker 2: when they tell you, you know, especially in people in
Speaker 2: my life, like she would not say that if she
Speaker 2: didn't mean it, even for you. And so yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm kind of in awe of it all and
Speaker 2: grateful for it all because although I was there every
Speaker 2: day doing it like they're really was a greater thing
Speaker 2: at play in.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Man, it's it's been the most healing thing I've ever done.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I really hope people feel that way, to be honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, No, I mean I wanted you to hear
Speaker 1: it from her because I feel like we all need
Speaker 1: to hear it. Yeah, we all need to hear it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know, I can imagine that when you finish
Speaker 1: an album, it's actually the beginning of then sharing it
Speaker 1: with the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so my hope today internally was like I want
Speaker 1: you to feel so much love, yeah, and so much
Speaker 1: support and so much embrace so that as you go out.
Speaker 2: And I thought of it almost like this, like at
Speaker 2: the beginning, it's this little spark that's so you know, tender,
Speaker 2: and you have the people you really trust, and you
Speaker 2: show them little clips of it, little voice memos, and
Speaker 2: they put little they put their little twigs on it,
Speaker 2: and that flame starts to grow. And then you start
Speaker 2: showing other people and they put a log and I
Speaker 2: almost imagine my team and my friends and my family
Speaker 2: each place logs on this fire, and now we just
Speaker 2: have this like massive bonfire going there. If there was
Speaker 2: a hurricane, it wouldn't blow it out. And it's just like,
Speaker 2: all right, now, we're good. Give it to the world.
Speaker 2: It can handle anything, you know. And that's really what
Speaker 2: it feels like. It feels so much greater than anything
Speaker 2: I could be a part of.
Speaker 3: And but thank you. That's really so sweet man.
Speaker 1: I love you, man, I always have. It's really special
Speaker 1: for me as well, because I feel like I've said
Speaker 1: this to you, and I want to say out loud,
Speaker 1: it's the You had every reason when I met you
Speaker 1: to just keep doing what would have been the right
Speaker 1: business decision, the right professional decision, the right artist decision
Speaker 1: from a results standpoint, and I think your bravery encourage
Speaker 1: at your age and the maturity to step back and
Speaker 1: actually say, I'm going to go on a deep in journey.
Speaker 1: And I don't even want to use the words find
Speaker 1: yourself because that would mean that you've completed it and
Speaker 1: now you're sharing it. So just go on a journey
Speaker 1: of self discovery and adventure and then to come back
Speaker 1: to this when you feel you're ready to share wherever
Speaker 1: you currently are. It would have been so much easier
Speaker 1: to just not think about these things in the short term.
Speaker 1: And as I've said to you before, I've seen people
Speaker 1: do that for three or four decades and then finally
Speaker 1: figure it out. And the fact that you chose to
Speaker 1: do it so young is an immense credit to your
Speaker 1: incredible family, your friends, to your team and everyone around
Speaker 1: you because you made the hardest, most difficult decision in
Speaker 1: your position and so like happy to just see the
Speaker 1: fruits of it. You too, man, because I still remember
Speaker 1: so many conversations.
Speaker 2: Of infinite all the little seeds that we planted of
Speaker 2: like tension and love and hope and everything. It's all
Speaker 2: just everything's blooming. We're standing in the farm of just
Speaker 2: like like everything at the same it's almost overwhelming the
Speaker 2: amount that starts to happen in the harvest, and it's
Speaker 2: just yeah, this season.
Speaker 1: And I'm so humbled that you allowed me to not
Speaker 1: only walk that parts of that journey, little parts of
Speaker 1: that journey with you, but have this opportunity today too,
Speaker 1: because it's rare that you get to live in these
Speaker 1: cycles with people. Yeah, especially when we're so busy and
Speaker 1: you know, and so I'm so grateful that this is
Speaker 1: the first of our hopefully forever cycles. Yes, sir, I'm
Speaker 1: with you all the way. I love you, rooting for you,
Speaker 1: and thank you. Jy, I've got your back through it all.
Speaker 3: Thank you, man, I know you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Man to man.
Speaker 1: We end every on purpose with a final five, which
Speaker 1: are fast five. You have to answer each question and
Speaker 1: one word to one sentences. Not superficial. I'm not like,
Speaker 1: what's your favorite you start getting question questionable one, Sean,
Speaker 1: these are your fast five. Questionable one. What is the
Speaker 1: best advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 3: Wow, nothing's coming to mind.
Speaker 1: That's good. I like that already.
Speaker 3: It all sums up in an energy. I guess more.
Speaker 2: That's just like anytime someone says something that just allows
Speaker 2: there to be more space, you know.
Speaker 1: Question number two, what is the worst advice you've ever heard.
Speaker 3: To suck it up?
Speaker 1: Question number three, how would you define your current purpose?
Speaker 2: I would define my current purpose with just being committed
Speaker 2: to be the most honest version of myself in every moment.
Speaker 2: You know, I have a lot of trust in what
Speaker 2: that will do in this world.
Speaker 3: And I think.
Speaker 2: I've learned so much, like even just to be here,
Speaker 2: I've learned so much about following my truth into the
Speaker 2: dark and feeling like I'm letting people down, but how
Speaker 2: that led me into creating a really beautiful healing album
Speaker 2: and hopefully to how that will pick people up. And
Speaker 2: it's kind of all part of it.
Speaker 1: Question for is what's the message to the fans with
Speaker 1: this album?
Speaker 3: Sean and bring your tissues.
Speaker 2: I love you, guys, and I am beyond grateful for
Speaker 2: your patience and your love. And it's a beautiful thing
Speaker 2: to be growing up at the same time as you,
Speaker 2: and so I hope a lot of the words and
Speaker 2: the stories resonate with you, and I hope you feel me,
Speaker 2: because I feel like we've been out of connection for
Speaker 2: a long time. And I just always want to be
Speaker 2: honest with you guys, no matter what, and so I
Speaker 2: hope you love it.
Speaker 1: A little offshore of that, why was now the right
Speaker 1: time to come back for you?
Speaker 2: There was a moment six months ago when Andrew and
Speaker 2: a couple of people I love, they kind of like
Speaker 2: were like, hey, can we just play you back some
Speaker 2: ideas you've sent us that we think are cool. And
Speaker 2: I was like, they're probably not. And they brought me
Speaker 2: into a room and they played them back, and I
Speaker 2: was like, these are kind of cool, and it was
Speaker 2: just very obvious to me that, like I gotta go try,
Speaker 2: you know, like I think oftentimes people wait for inspiration
Speaker 2: to fall into their lap before they try, and then
Speaker 2: sometimes you got to go in there and chop with
Speaker 2: and water for a few days before inspiration strikes, and
Speaker 2: you know, three days of like why am I here?
Speaker 2: I should not be here, I'm not ready to be here.
Speaker 2: The fourth day inspiration strikes. Six months later, you forgot
Speaker 2: you ever were shopping wedod and carrying water. You were
Speaker 2: just enjoying yourself and making art and it just changed,
Speaker 2: you know. So it's the right time, I guess, just
Speaker 2: because it is.
Speaker 1: Did you really want to leave in those first three.
Speaker 3: Days, desperately.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny how quickly I forgot I wanted
Speaker 2: to leave, and how quickly it just turned into passion
Speaker 2: and inspired to make something beautiful again, like almost like
Speaker 2: a night and day difference. That's how inspiration works sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, feel the fear and do it anyway exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're not going to wait for it to be free
Speaker 1: of fear and then take the step.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, The fear is like the greatest thing
Speaker 2: because you're scared of something, and that's something is probably
Speaker 2: something worth writing about if you're a writer.
Speaker 1: You know. If some final question, we asked this to
Speaker 1: anyone who's ever been on the show. The question is,
Speaker 1: if you had to create one law that everyone in
Speaker 1: the world had to follow, what would it be.
Speaker 2: The law would be to say what you really feel,
Speaker 2: you know, but to say it in a way that
Speaker 2: doesn't really hurt people, but like to speak the truth.
Speaker 3: You know, speak your truth. You're going to get so
Speaker 3: much further.
Speaker 2: I think with that that'd be a horrible law though.
Speaker 2: And Lars, yeah, I'm gonna get arrested if I don't
Speaker 2: say this, man, but that hair does not not your
Speaker 2: hair right now.
Speaker 3: It's great.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, Sean, thank you, my brother. I
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Yes, it's been beautiful. It's been a lot of.
Speaker 3: Fun, Yes it has.
Speaker 1: It's been emotional. It's been deep and raw and vulnerable,
Speaker 1: just like the album. And I can't wait to see
Speaker 1: you perform live. I'm so excited.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: If you love this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode
Speaker 1: with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how
Speaker 1: to speak to yourself with more compassion.
Speaker 2: My fears are only going to continue to show me
Speaker 2: what I'm capable of.
Speaker 1: The more that I face my fears, the more that
Speaker 1: I feel I'm gaining strength, I'm gaining wisdom, and I
Speaker 1: just want to keep doing that.