WEBVTT - Superintendent Series: Roger Null on His Life in Golf 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:04.399 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:09.000 Today's episode is brought to you by Toro. For more 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.880 than a century with cutting edge turf equipment and irrigation solutions, 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:15.520 Toro has had your front nine covered and your back 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.960 nine two. In fact, Toro's always had your back period. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.080 Toro is has committed to your long term success as 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.239 tour pros are committed to their shot. That's down to 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:29.520 top notch customer support from Toro and has dedicated local distributors, 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.879 both of whom are passionate about delivering turf equipment and 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:36.920 irrigation solutions that solve real world problems. Follow at Toro 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:41.479 Golf on Twitter and reach out to your local Toro distributor. Today, 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:47.240 I am excited to release today's episode of the Superintendent series. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.920 Today we have Roger Noll on the podcast. Roger is 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:56.160 a legend in Saint Louis. He is a retired golf 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:00.760 course superintendent. He now does golf architecture work in the area, 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:05.360 but he has worked at about twenty Saint Louis area 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:09.600 clubs in total, worked about five of them as a superintendent, 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.240 and then he has been a consulting architect at a bunch. 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.600 As well as being a superintendent. He is a great 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:21.160 player in his own right. He won the Superintendent championship 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.399 a few times. You know, a few other times he 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:26.679 he had chances to win, but he chose to do 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.920 other things. It's a great story. Roger's got tons of 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:35.640 tons of information, wealth of information, knowledge on many subjects 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.399 in golf, and all around great guy. Here is our 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.680 episode with Roger Noll. I miss the green, for example, 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.199 I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:46.160 I'm really upset. 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:47.520 And when I find my ball in. 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.160 A brid egg Friday egg the dread and Frida egg 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.600 Frida egg Frida egggg fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm about 0:01:53.640 --> 0:02:19.040 ready to run off of the hup here you've been. 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:22.640 I started that when I was at one of my 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:27.000 wife's family's weddings and I asked everybody all night long 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:30.200 what your favorite fruit was. People got so into it, 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:34.120 you know, people were you know, everybody's got an opinion 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:34.480 on that. 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:35.480 Sure. 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:36.680 Why is peach the best? 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:44.960 Ah? I don't know. It's sweet, juicy, it's hard to peel. 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:46.280 That's the only downside. 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:48.639 You peel the peach. You don't just eat the bus. 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.240 No, I'm not a fuzzy eater. So I peeled the 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.720 peach and it's awesome on ice cream. 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.480 It's good about ice cream, vanilla ice cream, all ice 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:05.200 cream peach. That's Uh. How do you get started here? 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:06.240 I couldn't. 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:10.040 I've obviously known you now for a while. Uh. And 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:12.919 then I'm at the g I S Show and I'm 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.519 looking at this wall of all the all the champions 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.400 of the Superintendent Golf Tournament, and I just see Roger 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:22.919 and Noll, Roger and Roger and Noll, Roger and all. 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:25.200 You say you only wanted three times. I saw your 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:26.400 name up there at least six. 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.080 Not really, but I did win three. 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.280 They might be they might be giving you more titles 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:35.600 than you think you want. 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.040 I'll take them, you know. So win's a win, right. 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:40.880 How did you start playing golf? 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:47.640 I started back? Well, my big brother played, I haven't. 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.680 I had an older brother that was a good player, 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.520 good junior player, and you know, you always want to 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:57.240 do what your older brother does. We were a big 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:01.320 sports family. My dad was a football coach and my 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:04.480 brother went on to be actually an Iowa Hall of 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:11.120 Fame football coach. And so I think it was twelve 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:15.200 years old, just finished Little league baseball and I wasn't 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:16.760 sure what I was going to do for the summer, 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:18.960 and my dad said, you can either play golf or 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:21.520 go to the next league in baseball. And I said, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.240 I'm going to play golf this summer. And that's what 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.440 I ended up doing. A little nine hole course in 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:32.799 Iowa and Lamars, Iowa, a WPA course that they built 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:38.400 back then. Cool little nine and folks would just drop 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.320 me off there in the morning and picked me up 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:45.360 late at night. I'd help around the pro shop or 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.080 I used to change cups once in a while, stuff 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.839 like that, shag balls for the basketball coach who was 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:56.960 the pro would give lessons, and that was it. Just 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:57.880 kept playing golf. 0:04:58.360 --> 0:04:59.560 Golf course still around. 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:05.520 It is. Actually two years ago. I went back from 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.599 my brother's funeral and went up with my nephew, Mike Nall, 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.240 who's also a superintendent at Norwoodale's Country Club here in 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:18.160 Saint Louis. We drove up. I hadn't been back, oh, 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:22.200 I don't know, for years and years, and it's still there. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:27.240 But they built another eighteen I couldn't tell you what year, 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.800 but they kept the old nine and it still looked 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:30.200 the same. 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:36.680 Is the old Knight is a good nine? 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:40.360 Yeah it is. It was. Really it was a fun nine. 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.680 The first three holes. The first hole is a short 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.520 part four that when you got older you could drive. 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:53.880 You could drive the green. Second hole was the bottom 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.080 of kind of a triangle, a part three, and then 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.240 the third hole would come back to the clubhouse pretty 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.840 good slight dog leg left part four. And when we 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.760 were kids, there would always be an argument on the 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.600 third green. The guys that played good wanted to keep going. 0:06:10.720 --> 0:06:12.680 The guys that had a bad start, they want to 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.280 all go start over, you know, so you could fight 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:16.960 over what you were going to do. 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:19.680 It's a perfect way to settle a match that was 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.520 tied too. You play the three holes absolutely like a 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:23.880 little late night loop. 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:24.720 Yeah. Right. 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:30.280 So then, so you played, you played football, You got 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.440 a football scholarship right. 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:39.080 When after my sophomore year, my dad was out of 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.640 the coaching business and bought a feed store in early Iowa, 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:48.120 which was just a very small town about seventy miles 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:55.120 east of Lamars and Sioux City. My graduate a R. 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:56.000 L E. Y. 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:57.720 Right, Yeah, I've seen the sign. 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.560 Yeah. My graduating class was twenty four boys and four girls. 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:05.919 But we had a hell of a football team. 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:09.200 Slim peckens, you know, on the dating scene. 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:14.200 We were undefeated, number one in our division in the state. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.640 And yeah, I got a football scholarship at a small 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:24.480 school back at Lamars where I played played a year 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:30.840 and a half I got there was about four of us. 0:07:31.240 --> 0:07:36.960 It was kind of a strict church school, a religious school. Uh, 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.440 and the athletic director and coach caught us drinking beer 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:46.560 the night before a game. So I lost my scholarship 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:51.760 for that year, and so didn't have a lot of money. 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.720 So I quit at the end of the semester. And 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.679 the summer before i'd been working at Sioux City Country Club. 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.240 I don't know who did it, but it's an old, 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:06.880 old golf course, and so I went back there and 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.720 worked and didn't really know what I was going to do. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.160 And the superintendent said, you ought to go to Iowa 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.800 State and get into turf. And I was kind of 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:19.600 what they calls turf. I really didn't know, but I 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.680 took a chance, and that's how it all got started. Really. 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:27.679 So wait, year was that, Well, let's see, I graduated 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:34.560 from high school sixty two, sixty four, yeah, been sixty four, right, Yeah, 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:38.520 because I went there for three years, kind of ran 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:43.360 out of money, needed a job. My advisor. I'd had 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:50.440 all my turf, my soil classes, agonomic classes and horticulture, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:55.000 all this stuff just had, you know, some other junk 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.839 I had to take. So my advisor got me an 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.040 assistant job at the Rocket kind of an arsenal golf 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:08.280 club in sixty seven, and halfway through the year, the 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:12.400 older superintendent's wife passed away and he really didn't want 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.920 to keep doing it, so they gave me the job 0:09:16.960 --> 0:09:21.320 as superintendent or back then it was greenskeeper. We weren't 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:22.640 superintendents in those days. 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:23.720 When did that change? 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:34.079 Oh man, good question. Sixty seven, Probably not too long after, 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:40.400 probably around the seventy be my guess. That's a good question. 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:44.000 Though I can't remember. All I remember is I can't 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.960 figure out why because and I don't know why we're 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:53.400 superintendents or director of agronomy or whatever. We're just caretakers 0:09:53.400 --> 0:09:55.800 of the of the golf course. You know. 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:01.800 It's so you're like twenty three and you got your 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:03.000 running a golf course. 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.760 Yep. I had no idea what the hell I was doing. 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.480 Anything. You look back on now, and I think, OK, 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:13.079 I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of things, anything 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.440 just egregious or is there anything also on the flip 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.360 side that you did really well that you don't have 0:10:19.400 --> 0:10:20.560 no clue why you did that? 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.119 Right? No, And I think it was my golf background 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:29.480 because I was playing until we moved to Early. I 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:35.440 played high school golf and then Early didn't have any 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:41.280 But Iowa has a tremendous tournament schedule. On all these 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.679 little nine hole courses you could play. You could play 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.480 one tournament on Saturday and go to another town and 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.760 play another one on Sunday. They'd be nine whole course, 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.160 you'd play twenty seven holes. You'd go around at three 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.440 times and that was the tournament. Then they had, you know, 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:01.440 their majors, the State Am and the Northwest Am and 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.960 the Lake forget what the name of it, but several 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.120 bigger tournaments that were fifty four holes. And so I 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:14.200 played a lot of competitive golf, and I think that's 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.240 what held it together in my first few years as 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:21.280 a greenskeeper, that I knew what it should look like 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:26.839 and I knew how I wanted it to play, and 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:31.280 it had to help you with membership too. Absolutely. You know, 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:38.040 I was single in so you know, after work, I 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.360 would you know, go home, clean up and then come 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.560 back in the evening and play. And I used to 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.839 play in the evening. There was this dentist that used 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.079 to come out in the evening, was a real good player, 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.640 played in a USAM once. His name was doctor Paul Barton, 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:59.400 and he was close friends with Jack Fleck and actually 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:03.839 came edi'd for Jack Fleck when he when Fleck beat 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.680 Ben Hogan in the opening Olympic Club unbelievable, pretty cool. 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.600 And he kind of mentored me. He would. I'd go 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.679 over and have dinner with he and his wife every 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:17.560 now and and you know, he kind of refined my golf. 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:19.800 You know, I was, you know, growing up in a 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.480 little town and Iowa, you just play. You didn't know 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.760 much about the game, so he taught me quite a bit. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:31.240 Yeah, it's amazing. I even look now like when I 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.800 see kids playing, how much like little things they just 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:37.440 don't know about the game of golf. And it's just 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:41.960 it's crazy how I feel like everybody had, every good 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:46.560 player has like a player, an older you know, person 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:49.360 in their life that helped them learn how to play. Golf, 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:52.000 you know, because there's so many things you just don't learn. 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.360 And the other, you know, that first year, the other 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.599 neat thing that happened when they gave me the job. Obviously, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.960 I was scared, didn't know what the hell was going on, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.520 and that I don't know whether it was the first 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.920 day that I was soup or greens keeper head greenskeeper, 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.720 or that week. I know it was the first week 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:19.079 they had one of their big member guests, and or 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.440 maybe as a member member tournament. I don't really recall. 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.840 But afterwards I happened to be walking through the locker 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:29.000 room and the first guy ran into it. I still 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.120 remember his name, Whitey Barnard. He was the club champion 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.400 at the time, and he just lit into me, telling 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.960 me that it was the worst golf course he'd ever 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.480 seen it, He's never seen it in worse shape. I mean, 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.480 I wanted to crawl the locker and he went on through, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:51.680 and then the next guy came through named Donalndah. He 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.400 was a higher handicap and he went on and on 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.640 how great the golf course was, how perfect, and I'm like, 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.600 what the hill. So I go down to the pro 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.640 shop and talk to the fro and I'm tell him, 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.360 he says, all that's per simply said White. He just 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.960 shot eighty and Don Loundell just shot his best score 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.040 ever seventy six and beat him out of X amount 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:18.120 of dollars. And it was a good lesson right there 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.640 that you know, you just put your head down and 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:22.400 do what you think is right. 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:27.520 And so what was different about it that that forced 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.720 those reactions were created? 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:34.600 And do you know, well the one played Club Champions 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:38.360 shoots eight. He played terrible, so he's pissed off. And 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.800 Don Londell, who was I think like a twelve or fourteen? 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:43.840 I would guess it was just. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.200 Anny thing with the golf course. No, just think it's 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.239 just the perception is how they played. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:51.760 The perception how they played. 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:56.040 It's an amazing thing in America. How how golfers so 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.560 much of their golf experience and what they think of 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.960 a golf course or an experience at a golf course 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.320 revolves around how they personally play right. 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.560 And you got to realize that, you know, in nineteen 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:11.360 sixty seven, you know, what was considered good is a 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:14.640 lot different than the day. I mean, you know, golf 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.880 courses were rougher back then green speeds were slower. You know, 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:23.280 there's no irrigation in the in the roughs, which you 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:25.080 know my opinion there shouldn't be anyway. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:30.520 So yeah, talk about talk about all the changes we 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.200 can get, kind of go along the career path more. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.080 But I'm curious about, you know, what would have been 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.960 the biggest changes that you've seen in the turf over 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:45.560 over your time in it. Obviously you know technology is 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:46.280 a big thing. 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:51.520 But yeah, I mean probably five ten years ago, I 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:56.000 would have said equipment. You know, the tools we have, 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:04.440 but you know, they kind of the demands they evolved 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:07.040 the same as the golf course has evolved as far 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:12.480 as conden conditioning and demands that the public wants, what 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:17.920 the golfer wants. But I would say the biggest difference 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:25.360 right now is access to information technology. I mean, these 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.600 guys here in Saint Louis, I don't know how many 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:34.840 are on their group text, but you know, if they 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.440 if something's going on on the green that they don't know, 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.400 I mean, they'll just text it out everybody in town. 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:48.200 You know, somebody knows, or going to the GCSA website 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:53.000 finding answers or just googling answers. I mean it's you know, 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.320 in my day, you'd have to pick up a phone 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.200 and call some superintendent that you know, and he's probably 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.760 not there. Then you might get in your car and 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.399 drive him try to find him. Then he wouldn't know 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.320 what the hell anyway, so then you try. 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:10.919 To You wouldn't have like a phone to show him 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.120 a picture unless. 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:20.840 You absolutely But again, turf stress wasn't as bad then either. 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:26.119 You know. We we make our own problems with the 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.000 stress that we're putting on the turf at the low 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:33.399 heights of cut, the rolling, the everything we're doing. But 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:39.760 yet technology has helped and equipment has helped to combat. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:46.760 That with the obviously there's never the way golf courses 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.680 are presented have been never been more intricate, and as 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:54.919 looking at it through the lens of a golfer, do 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.920 you think it's gotten easier? Has it gotten tougher because 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:01.840 of the agronomics as the game the game? 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:15.320 Yeah, boy, I don't. I don't see it. I don't 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:19.920 see it that has changed that much scoring wise, Uh, 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.240 I mean with the equipment today's equipment and the big 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.679 debates and everything. Yeah, it's probably easier for the average 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:33.679 guy to hit it, but yet conditions weren't as you know, 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:43.639 maybe as difficult back then. I don't know, Uh, I 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:45.680 don't know. The game was. The game's just as much 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:47.880 fun today as it was back then. I can tell 0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:48.919 you that for me. 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:51.840 For me anyway, yeah, I always wonder. I feel like 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:57.080 some of the things could make it easier, like fairways, 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.320 running more, but then it could also make it more 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.879 tough because it's tougher to keep the ball in the fairway, right, 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.479 and then the same thing goes for the green where 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.280 you know, they're smoother and faster, but that speed can 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:11.920 make them a lot more tough, you know, right. 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.600 You know, if you asked me, would I sooner play 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:24.040 today or back in the sixties. I enjoyed it more 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:24.800 in the sixties. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:27.120 Why is that? 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:31.679 I don't know. It was just you know, maybe I 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:38.680 was younger and it just was a lot more fun, 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:45.080 you know, it was more creative. The expectations, I guess, 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:48.040 maybe more as strong then. I don't know. 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:52.440 That's a So you went to seed the Rapids then 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:54.760 after Rock Island, after. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:56.600 The rock on Arsenal. Yeah, I was at the Arsenal 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.960 from sixty seven to seventy four. And then I went 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.840 to Cedar Rapids Country Club until nineteen eighty. 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.679 And at the time, you didn't know that it was, 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.800 you know, this Donald Ross golf course. You weren't into 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:12.639 architecture of this. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:15.800 I wasn't. I knew it was a Donald Ross. I 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:20.640 mean i'd heard that. I really didn't. I hadn't done 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:22.159 a lot of reading of the history. 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.240 You hadn't traveled a ton either, and I hadn't. 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:27.000 No, I hadn't. I mean I hadn't been out of 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.400 Iowa that I recall. 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:33.080 Not even across the Illinois border. 0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:37.199 Well, obviously I was because I was in the Quad Cities. 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:41.080 Actually I spent too much time across the border, but 0:20:41.160 --> 0:20:46.800 that's all right. But yeah, I didn't. I didn't know 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:50.120 a lot about it. I knew it was a cool 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.639 golf course. There was a lot of cool things there, 0:20:55.800 --> 0:21:02.199 and it was pretty. Yeah, it was really hadn't changed, 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:04.840 you know. I'm sure the green size is probably a 0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:10.679 trunk even before I got there, but you know, they 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:14.439 hadn't done much to it. Now. The bottom holes, the 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.640 lower holes flooded a lot, and while I was there, 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:22.240 they had an engineering firm come in and put these 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:27.240 small lakes in that really didn't fit the property very well. 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.560 But you know, from what I've seen of the restoration, 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.399 and hopefully I can get up there this year and 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.240 see Tom Feller and see it with my own eyes, 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.760 it really looks like they've done a magnificent job. 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.520 It's a neat pace, it's really neat. And obviously Tom 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:49.240 was on earlier on this pot. Right, you assured me 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:51.560 that you were not the one that planted all the trees. 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.320 I did not plant all the trees. 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:56.359 Did you plant a lot of trees anywhere? 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:02.040 Uh? Not really? When I I came to Old Warson, 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:07.200 I planted a feud Old Warson. But they had done 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:11.840 this huge planning program. In fact, I remember the one. 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.560 He wasn't the Greens chairman, but he had been, and 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:19.479 he was so proud of all this tree planning that 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:25.600 he had done. And now hopefully they're taking most of 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:26.120 them down. 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.960 Talk about just at that time, I think a lot 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.560 of like our listeners, they look at the trees and 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.320 they don't understand how they got there. But you know, 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:41.200 at the time, trees were almost a thing of prestige. 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:45.040 Right, absolutely, yeah, it was you know, like I say, 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:48.080 I was at a Donald Roscoff, of course. But when 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:52.679 I had the opportunity to come to Old Warson, I 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.040 was ecstatic because I was going to go to a 0:22:56.160 --> 0:23:00.320 Robert Trent Jones golf course. So nineteen eighty Robert Trent 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:07.520 Jones was still known as the man, and fortunately I 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:10.960 think this is one of his better golf courses. Old 0:23:10.960 --> 0:23:14.119 Warson has really been good to me and is a 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:20.520 great golf course. But the tree thing, you know, I 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:24.199 mean they used to have memorial trees and it was 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:28.159 just the thing to do that. You know, the architects 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:30.680 took the landscape that didn't have much trees and fit 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:35.320 their golf course to it. But when they left, I 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:39.639 don't think there's the knowledge that we have today of 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:44.600 what they were trying to do and what their vision was. 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:49.600 And so committees saw I don't know what courses that 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.200 they saw that made them think that they needed to 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:55.520 tree line all of them. And instead of just doing 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:58.600 groups here and there that would have been okay. You know, 0:23:58.680 --> 0:24:01.600 most of courses, they would tree line it from Teeta Green, 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.720 which you know ruin a lot of turf. 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:11.479 A lot of people tie it to Ben Hogan. 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.600 I feel like, boy, that's really hurting me, he's my man. 0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:20.359 Well, they tie it because he hit it so straight. 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:20.879 They know. 0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:26.199 It's the funny thing with golf. It's always counterintuitive, you know, 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:29.560 by just making it narrower, and it just played more 0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:33.400 into the best the guy who hit the straightest hands right. 0:24:33.640 --> 0:24:36.800 Right. But if you but if they would look at 0:24:37.000 --> 0:24:42.280 how he took apart Carnoustie when he won there, they 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:45.800 would think different on how he could use strategy to 0:24:45.880 --> 0:24:47.119 his advantage. 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:53.000 YEA, yeah, it's uh so, how did you decide, you know, 0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:56.520 you had barely left Iowa, you're going to move to 0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:00.439 Saint Louis. Why why the sudden, you know, getting out 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:00.920 of Iowa. 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:07.800 Well, back then, probably the two best golf courses in 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:12.280 Iowa was Wakanda at in Des Moines, which was a 0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:18.280 Langford Moro golf course, and Cedar Rapids Country Club. So 0:25:18.600 --> 0:25:21.320 I really felt I was still fairly young and still 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:25.439 felt and I had felt what I'd probably reached the 0:25:25.480 --> 0:25:29.480 pinnacle in Iowa. There was no place for me to move, 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.560 and I was still young enough and restless enough that 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:35.679 I just that isn't what I wanted. I wanted to 0:25:35.720 --> 0:25:38.760 go on, and I thought, man, I'm going to the 0:25:38.760 --> 0:25:42.240 big City. And when I was in the when I 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:44.080 was in the Quad Cities, we used to go up 0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:49.320