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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This episode number one and today

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Speaker 1: on the show, we are joined by Doug Dern, a

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Speaker 1: hunter and manager from southwest Wisconsin, and we're discussing the

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Speaker 1: grim reality of c w D arriving on your property

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Speaker 1: and what to do next. All right, folks, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Wired Hunt Podcast, brought to you by six of

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Speaker 1: Gear and welcome to two thousand eighteen. Um, it's a

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Speaker 1: new year. I'm excited about that, and we have a

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Speaker 1: great guest today, but we have a crappy topic. Um.

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Speaker 1: On the positive side of things, We're gonna be joined

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Speaker 1: here shortly by my friend Doug Durham, and Doug's a

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Speaker 1: serious whitetail hunter. He is a land manager and consultant

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Speaker 1: from the Driftless region of southwestern Wisconsin. UM. You might

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Speaker 1: know him from his appearances on Steve Ronnella's Meat Eater

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Speaker 1: TV show and podcasts, and that's actually how I met Doug.

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Speaker 1: I met him through Steve Um when we all traveled

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Speaker 1: to Alaska together. This past September on that caribou hunt

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Speaker 1: that I've talked about here on the show in the past.

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Speaker 1: UM So that was an awesome trip. Well, definitely have

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Speaker 1: talked to Doug a little bit about that. UM. But

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Speaker 1: Doug takes his management of his family farm in Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: very very seriously. And that's really why I wanted to

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Speaker 1: have him on the show here today, because from a

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Speaker 1: deer hunting standpoint, in a habitat standpoint, UM, he's just

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Speaker 1: super serious about what he's doing on this property. UM.

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Speaker 1: So for that reason alone, I really think Doug would

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Speaker 1: have been a great guest to have on the show

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Speaker 1: just to talk about that. But recent events have made

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Speaker 1: Dougs insights even more important, I think, UM. And that

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Speaker 1: is because just a couple of months ago, Doug got

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Speaker 1: back his first two positive test results for chronic wasting

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Speaker 1: disease on his family farm. And in the weeks since then,

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Speaker 1: Doug has been kind of processing this news and putting

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Speaker 1: together a plan, a new plan for managing this farm

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Speaker 1: and how he's gonna hunt it and all those different

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Speaker 1: things based on the implications of c w D. And

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Speaker 1: I think this is something that unfortunately more and more

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Speaker 1: of us have to think about UM as CWD continues

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Speaker 1: this march across the country, popping up in new places

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Speaker 1: and expanding out from there. UM. So we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: chatting with Doug about his management plan and goals and

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Speaker 1: and what's happening and changing now that the disease has arrived,

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Speaker 1: what he's learned about CWD, and kind of how he

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Speaker 1: thinks he is going to impact his future and and

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Speaker 1: maybe the future for for many others of us who

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Speaker 1: might have the CWD showing up nearby soon. So that's

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Speaker 1: that's kind of the crappy topic that we'll be talking about. It.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a downer, but I think it's important

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Speaker 1: for us to really wrap our head around this because unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: CWD is becoming a reality and more and more places,

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Speaker 1: and we need to understand what that means. We need

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Speaker 1: to understand what to do about it, how to change

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Speaker 1: our thoughts and hunting tactics and management plans UM. And

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Speaker 1: I think also this will be a great reminder for

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Speaker 1: all of us that if you don't have CWD in

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Speaker 1: your area, we need to follow all the possible best

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Speaker 1: practices and regulations to make sure it doesn't show up

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Speaker 1: in our area. Um So I hate to start off

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Speaker 1: the episode on such a kind of a somber note,

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Speaker 1: but Mr co host Dan, can you can you brighten

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Speaker 1: the mood at all? Do you have anything to share

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Speaker 1: in our little pregame showed him to make us well,

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Speaker 1: thanks for that. How do I how do I follow that?

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Speaker 1: It's like bad news, bad news, bad news, bad news,

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Speaker 1: bad news, and now our co host Dan Johnson and

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Speaker 1: he's not gonna say anything important. So you know, like

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Speaker 1: we we we all count on your Dan to just

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Speaker 1: bring a smile to our faces. Do that? Do that

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Speaker 1: for us at least? Oh my god, that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure, especially after after that that intro. But dude,

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Speaker 1: I don't even don't even I don't even know what

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Speaker 1: to say. You know, I could talk about my kids,

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Speaker 1: but that ship don't matter. Really. I mean, I could

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Speaker 1: talk about my Christmas vacation, that doesn't matter. I could

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Speaker 1: talk about New Year's that doesn't matter. No one cares,

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Speaker 1: fair enough, Do you have any news on the white

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Speaker 1: tail front? Because I know, last time we chaid you

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Speaker 1: were saying that you might have some late season hunts

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Speaker 1: in store. You were doing some scouting I saw on

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Speaker 1: Facebook or Instagram or something that you found, like some

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Speaker 1: standing corn and bean field somewhere. Do you have any

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Speaker 1: good news on the late season deer Hunt in front Man,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I've I have a big family,

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Speaker 1: right so all so Christmas is go. I have I

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Speaker 1: have a Christmas this upcoming weekend as well, So I

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Speaker 1: just have a bit, you know, a big family, lots

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Speaker 1: of Christmas is, lots of activities that are going on

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Speaker 1: this time of year. I think I got a day

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Speaker 1: or two before the A T A show where I

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Speaker 1: might be able to get out. I found a standing

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Speaker 1: corn field, I found a standing bean field, and I

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Speaker 1: am in a place that like if you were to

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Speaker 1: draw a line between the standing cornfield and the standing

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Speaker 1: bean field, it's probably i'm gonna say a half a

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Speaker 1: mile between the two, but that line does not cross

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Speaker 1: over onto the property that I can hunt. Um, and

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Speaker 1: I'm probably about from the standing corn field would be

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Speaker 1: the closest food source. I'm gonna say I'm probably seventy

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Speaker 1: yards seventy five yards from my the prob pretty line

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Speaker 1: on one to the property line on the other, which

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Speaker 1: really doesn't mean much because I have to I can't

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Speaker 1: hunt on a fence line and shoot onto another person's farm,

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Speaker 1: you know, of property. So I'm even if you put

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Speaker 1: it that way, I'm even further away. Yes there's tracks, Yes,

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Speaker 1: there's well beaten trails. We got the cold tempts, we

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Speaker 1: got the snow, found the food. It's at this point

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Speaker 1: it's just luck if something comes by and um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, man, and it's just I got. I went

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Speaker 1: out last week put up two trail cameras on what

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Speaker 1: I felt were the best trails leading to this uh

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Speaker 1: food source through my buddy's farm, and I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: probably check them. I don't know if I'm gonna do

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Speaker 1: it tomorrow or Thursday, but I'm gonna go out check them. Um.

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Speaker 1: To be honest with you, they're a little bit of

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Speaker 1: an invasive check so um, but I think you can

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Speaker 1: get away with it in these temperatures, man. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: I'll see what's on there. If there's nothing on there,

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Speaker 1: my season might be over. Um, unless it's a you know,

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Speaker 1: a mature buck. I feel that. Um. I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like I need to take another dough. My freezers for

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Speaker 1: the most part pretty full. Um. You know, I've already

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Speaker 1: killed a buck this year, so that that checkbox has

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Speaker 1: been kind of done. And I don't know, manu, And

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Speaker 1: it's literally the high today was and I think where

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Speaker 1: I was at was seven degrees and a wind chill

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Speaker 1: of negative twenty. So I was out in it yesterday,

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Speaker 1: not yesterday the day before and it was so cold.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't like. My eyelids started to I

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Speaker 1: had to blink more because the fluids on my eyelids

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Speaker 1: were freezing shut. You know, if we're starting to get frozen.

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Speaker 1: So I don't even know if I have the gear,

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Speaker 1: if I were all of my clothes to be get

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Speaker 1: out there and be warm enough for an hour and

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Speaker 1: a half, you know what I mean. Oh, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to hear it. Dan, Hey, shut up, Mr. I

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Speaker 1: hunt from a blind I don't have. I don't have

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Speaker 1: a blind. I had to hunt from a tree stand

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Speaker 1: this week too. I had to sit out in the

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Speaker 1: free and the freezing cold on one of my hunts.

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Speaker 1: But yes, the last two nights I did sit in

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Speaker 1: a blind, which was very nice. I have a heater

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Speaker 1: with you get it? Yes, you did? See? Like just

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Speaker 1: for me to hunt late season, I probably need to

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Speaker 1: invest five Yeah, man, this has been frigid I hear

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Speaker 1: you and that like, um, well, the past week, I've

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Speaker 1: hunted four times, um, three of which were from the

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Speaker 1: box blind, one night was from the tree stand, and

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Speaker 1: that one night from the tree stand. It was it

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Speaker 1: was cold, that's for sure, um. But I did have

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Speaker 1: a couple of reasons to get cold, even on the

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Speaker 1: nights when I was in the box blind, because of

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Speaker 1: the last two nights, so New Year's Eve night and

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Speaker 1: New Year's night, I killed deer. I killed my first

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Speaker 1: two deer of the season and probably my only two

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Speaker 1: deer of the season on the last day of the

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Speaker 1: year and the first day of the new year. Um,

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Speaker 1: So that was good. That was good. But it was

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Speaker 1: like negative seven one night when I was out there

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Speaker 1: gutting the deer. So same thing as you said, like

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Speaker 1: frosticles on my coming out of my nose and eyebrows

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Speaker 1: and everything, and super cold. But you never appreciate the

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Speaker 1: warmth of a deer's innards as much as a night

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Speaker 1: like that. So that was good that we got a

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Speaker 1: couple of You did see a big buck though, right, like,

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Speaker 1: what what was this buck that you saw? How big was? Yes?

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Speaker 1: You know, I think I want to hold off on

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Speaker 1: telling that story too much because on our next episode,

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Speaker 1: I wanted, well, you know, I can, I can, I

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Speaker 1: can touch on this. I want to do a deep

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Speaker 1: dive um next time, like we talked. You know, last

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Speaker 1: time we talked, i'd mentioned that our next episode, I

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Speaker 1: want us to do like a season analysis and walk

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Speaker 1: through everything about the season. So I want to do

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Speaker 1: like a season recap and kind of get people up

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Speaker 1: to speed on how my season ended, where things stand

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Speaker 1: with um, you know, the hunt for holy Field and

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Speaker 1: all those different things. But I don't want to talk

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Speaker 1: about that at all right now because I think that

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Speaker 1: takes a full episode to talk about. But I will say, Um,

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Speaker 1: towards the end of the season, like I said, I've

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Speaker 1: been trying to shoot does. One night I went out

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Speaker 1: with Further um and all Further came out with me

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Speaker 1: and wanted to get him a dough And that night

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Speaker 1: we did see a giant Um. It was the biggest

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Speaker 1: buck I have ever seen in Michigan while hunting. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it was just a total bonus buck, a deer

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Speaker 1: I've never seen before, never gotten trail camera pictures of

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Speaker 1: this deer before. Um. Just yeah, like I said, I've

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Speaker 1: never seen a deer like this on this property before

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Speaker 1: so kind of floored me. I couldn't believe it. We

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Speaker 1: were watching some doughs and little bucks come across this

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Speaker 1: opening way on the other side of the property, could

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Speaker 1: see down this power line, and Um, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: I had my bine. I was looking at this little

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Speaker 1: six pointer and then I see another deer step in

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Speaker 1: the frame, and it was just like shock, Like I

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Speaker 1: had not seen a deer like this, never would expect

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Speaker 1: to see a deer like this around there. Um. I

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Speaker 1: mean he was I don't know it was quick. I

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Speaker 1: mean I probably could see him watch him for like

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Speaker 1: ten seconds or give or take something like that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But if I had to put money on what I

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Speaker 1: thought he that kind of buck was. I mean he

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Speaker 1: could have been pushing like one sixty classman, definitely one fifties. Um.

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Speaker 1: He looked like that buck I killed a few years

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Speaker 1: ago that I called Glenn down Ohio. That's that's what

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Speaker 1: he looked like. UM. So just not a Michigan deer like,

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Speaker 1: not the kind of deer you see around here. That

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Speaker 1: was really exciting. Um. I went out the next night

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Speaker 1: in the tree stand over in that area where I

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Speaker 1: saw him, did not see him that night. UM checked

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Speaker 1: all my true all cameras, didn't get pictures of him

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Speaker 1: on any of the cameras at all. Um So, seems

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Speaker 1: like he was just kind of passing through, maybe got

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Speaker 1: bumped off of some other property by I don't know,

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Speaker 1: people doing a late season drive for doze or who

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Speaker 1: knows what. But um man would be nice if he's

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Speaker 1: stuck around for next year, but but I don't know.

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Speaker 1: So that was kind of the extent of of my

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Speaker 1: couple most recent nights hunting. Um And we can we

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Speaker 1: can discuss the other interesting next week. Yeah. Um So

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Speaker 1: that said, we do need to wrap up our intro

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Speaker 1: because Doug is expecting us. Um So, are you are

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Speaker 1: you cool with stopping our fun talk of of recent

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Speaker 1: success and start talking about the downer of CWD. Let's

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Speaker 1: do it, all right. We'll take a quick break here

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Speaker 1: to thank our partners at SITKA, and here are Sita

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Speaker 1: Story of the Day. For this week's story, we're joined

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Speaker 1: by Brett Joy, who tells us about a mishap on

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Speaker 1: a recent white tail hunt that still ended with a

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Speaker 1: tag field. One of the funnier occurrences that happened to

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Speaker 1: Ross and I this year was just this last weekend

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Speaker 1: during Ohio Shotgun second shotgun season. Went into a farmer

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Speaker 1: trying to manage some does and get some meat for

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Speaker 1: the freezer. And we're both in the ground line. We

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Speaker 1: weren't filming. We both had muzzle others and we had

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Speaker 1: two doughs come in to range um and we had

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Speaker 1: discussed before and that we're gonna count to three and

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Speaker 1: shoot on four, and we discussed the multiple times. We

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Speaker 1: both were clear on it, and we were set to go.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna double up. And when it came time to shoot,

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Speaker 1: I was having trouble getting on the dough that I

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Speaker 1: was supposed to shoot, just because of the configuration of

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Speaker 1: the windows. I was really strained to get high enough

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Speaker 1: to get that dough in the cross air. When I

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Speaker 1: finally did, I said Rossy Wanner and he said wait, wait,

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Speaker 1: wait wait, and then shortly thereafter I said how you

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Speaker 1: are now? He said, yeah, go ahead, I'm honor, And

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Speaker 1: so that triggered a response in my brain because you know,

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Speaker 1: for years Ross and I've been filming together and that

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Speaker 1: exact exchange exchange happens when we're trying to film a

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Speaker 1: deer and when I'm I'm shooting, he's he's filming, so

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Speaker 1: I immediately shot when he said a honor and he

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Speaker 1: was just like, oh no, what did I do? I

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Speaker 1: totally forgot to plan. I messed him up, screwed him

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Speaker 1: out of the doll and I felt kind of silly

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Speaker 1: for it, but he understood and had a good laugh

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Speaker 1: about it, and we were able to recover the dough

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Speaker 1: that I shot, and I gave him some meat to

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Speaker 1: make up for it. So so that was a pretty interesting,

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Speaker 1: for funny part of our season. On Brett's Hunt, he

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Speaker 1: was wearing sick at Fanatic babes and Selsie's jacket. If

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Speaker 1: you'd like to create a Sikest story of your own,

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Speaker 1: or to learn more about sits technical hunting apparel, visit

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Speaker 1: sitkagear dot com. Alright with us on the show now

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Speaker 1: is my buddy Doug Dern. Welcome to the show. Doug, Hey,

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Speaker 1: that's good to speak with you. At least I haven't

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Speaker 1: got to see it for a while, but yeah, it

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Speaker 1: has been a little while. And last time, last time

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Speaker 1: we were hanging out, it was at the end of

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Speaker 1: what I think for both of us, was one of

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Speaker 1: the coolest experiences of our lives. Would that be true

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Speaker 1: for you, Doug, Yes, it was. It was incredible that

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Speaker 1: that time in Alaska is an incredible experience, and uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was cool to share it with you. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: me and me and Dan were just kind of lamenting

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Speaker 1: a little bit earlier about how the main topic of

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Speaker 1: our episode today is a little bit of a downer

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Speaker 1: and I know you feel that way too as far

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Speaker 1: as the the c w D topic. But but the

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Speaker 1: caribou hunt is a is a no buts about it.

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Speaker 1: Great thing that we can talk about, um, and we

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Speaker 1: haven't got to really rehash any of that stuff. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I'm kind of curious how much that cabra meat?

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Speaker 1: Have you eaten most of it? It seems like it

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Speaker 1: seems like any time anybody comes by, they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: how's that? What's caribou tastes? Like why do you come

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Speaker 1: by in a couple of days and I'll make some

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Speaker 1: you know, um that people are very curious about it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's uh and it's like gold, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's okay, it's some of the else I wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: say some of the best. It's certainly right at the

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Speaker 1: top of the desk I've ever eaten. Yeah, that that

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Speaker 1: that's kind of like the catch twenty two of like

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Speaker 1: the situation when you when you're lucky enough to go

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Speaker 1: and hunt like that and kill a caribou and bring

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Speaker 1: that meat home. It's great except for just like you said,

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Speaker 1: the novelty of it is that everybody, whenever you have visitors,

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Speaker 1: they all want to try it. And so, like you said,

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Speaker 1: I've gone through so much of mine because the exact

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Speaker 1: same thing. You feel like it's a special event. I

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Speaker 1: really should make some caribou um so I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's gone way too quickly. I always try to like

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Speaker 1: preserve if there's something a little bit unique, like when

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Speaker 1: I've gone elk hunting in the past, when I've killed

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Speaker 1: an elk, or when a buddy is killed an elk,

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Speaker 1: like I hold on to that forever as long as

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Speaker 1: I possibly can. But that just has not happened with

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Speaker 1: the caribou um. So Dan, if you ever go to Alaska,

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Speaker 1: you should keep it a secret from people. Don't tell

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Speaker 1: anyone that you kill the cariboo. Hoard that meat for yourself. Amen. Know,

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Speaker 1: my my niece wasn't really impressed when when they came

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Speaker 1: for Christmas dinner, and I said we were going to

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Speaker 1: have rain gear for She just kind of looked at

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Speaker 1: me like, as her mother said, it's not it's caribly.

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Speaker 1: But I'm like, no species can kind of throw the

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Speaker 1: Santa story for a loop. But well, she's I have

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Speaker 1: to say, uh, people, of the stories that I've told

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Speaker 1: about that Alaska trip, one of my uh favorite is

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Speaker 1: the one where they dropped you and I off. You

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Speaker 1: were already landed on the spot where we were in

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Speaker 1: the camp and there's this little tiny yellow speck down there. Uh,

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Speaker 1: as we're flying over, and I said, hey, what's that

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Speaker 1: twean doing down here? In the pilot goes, that's where

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Speaker 1: we're landing, and uh, he's talking to the to the

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Speaker 1: guy who flew you in as we're circling once twice.

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Speaker 1: In the third time, he goes, well, you know, I've

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Speaker 1: got a lot a lot of extra weight in here.

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Speaker 1: And I took no sense at it. I don't have

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Speaker 1: my fifty pounds of here right referring to me. But

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Speaker 1: then when we hit the ground and the caribou that

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Speaker 1: we had been coming up that grass scattered and we're

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Speaker 1: watching them, and and uh, the two pilots talk to us.

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Speaker 1: So it's just you and I standing all right, pilots

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Speaker 1: talk to us for a couple of minutes, and the

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Speaker 1: guy goes, so, you guys have got your gear and everything, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you're gonna have to stay here tonight,

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Speaker 1: you're all set. And we're both like, uh yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: hopefully we'll see you a little while and and you're

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Speaker 1: not kind of looking at each other like, well, I

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Speaker 1: hope they come back. How do they figure that we

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Speaker 1: are the two that should be dropped off first? Like

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Speaker 1: what if the rest of the crew for some reason

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Speaker 1: bad weather came in and no one else showed up,

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Speaker 1: Like we're the the the worst prepared to be left

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Speaker 1: out there on our own. Yeah, well I think it

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Speaker 1: had something to do with weight. Mark. Now, I made

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Speaker 1: no bones about it. I was the biggest guy on

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Speaker 1: the of the trip, but unfortunately you were, well or whatever,

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Speaker 1: you were the second biggest guy on the trip, and

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Speaker 1: you're not that big of a guy. But um, I

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Speaker 1: just remember that whole that whole scene of being weighed,

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Speaker 1: and you know that was the whole thing was just that.

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Speaker 1: I mean everything was fun about that trip. There wasn't

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Speaker 1: there wasn't there was no unfun moments. No, no, but

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00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,240
Speaker 1: you're right. You definitely do have that moment when the

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Speaker 1: two planes pulled away and it's just you and me

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Speaker 1: sitting there a hundred and some miles away from the

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Speaker 1: nearest road. You definitely have one of those moments where

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Speaker 1: you feel rather insignificant in the bigger picture of things,

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Speaker 1: and you realize you're kind of at the mercy of

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of Um, I have a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of mother nature, that's for sure. So you know, man,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was awesome. I was just looking back

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Speaker 1: through pictures and one of those things that I don't

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Speaker 1: think we'll forget, and um, I don't know, do you

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Speaker 1: think you're gonna never go back to Alaska? Done? Well,

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Speaker 1: you said something but when we were maybe when we

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Speaker 1: were doing a second podcast with Steve, or maybe it

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Speaker 1: was just in conversation, and you said something to the

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Speaker 1: effect of, you know, as we were flying out, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, how am I going to get back here?

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Speaker 1: And I had that same feeling. And as I was

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Speaker 1: going back, I mean, there was this still we still had,

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Speaker 1: you know, a couple of days of the trip to go.

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Speaker 1: As we were flying back to where we uh, where

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Speaker 1: we threw out of um. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: as the miles went behind me, I was I had

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Speaker 1: that same feeling as how do I get to do

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Speaker 1: this again? Um, I'm gonna sure try. Yeah, man, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a special place. Yeah, yeah, you've got you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm twice your age, man, so you've got

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Speaker 1: plenty of time to work in another trip. My clock's well,

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Speaker 1: I hope you're right at least about on my front.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully I've got time to pull it off. I've already

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Speaker 1: been talking to my wife about it, like, we gotta

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Speaker 1: get you up there, we need to do it. And

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Speaker 1: she's like, all right, hold your horses. We're having a

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Speaker 1: baby this year. Chill out. We're not taking a newborn

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Speaker 1: to Alaska. But I'm not. I'd be lying. I'd be

394
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Speaker 1: lying if I told you I hadn't been thinking, like

395
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Speaker 1: can I take a six month old to Alaska? Can

396
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Speaker 1: we pull this off? The answers, yes, Mark, where there's

397
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Speaker 1: a will, there's a way, right, Yeah, Ronella did it.

398
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Speaker 1: He took when Jimmy was man, Jimmy was just a

399
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Speaker 1: little shaver, he was he was well. They went to

400
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Speaker 1: the Prince Wales Island, but you know that's possible. We

401
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: can do it. You can do it well, I hope.

402
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Speaker 1: So I'd like to get him up there soon, that's

403
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Speaker 1: for sure. It's uh, yeah, it's funny. When we came

404
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Speaker 1: back from the trip, I think you and me even

405
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Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit, like on the on

406
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Speaker 1: the flights or back in the airport or something. We

407
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: were talking about how deer are gonna seem a little

408
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: bit different after seeing all these caribou and seeing the landscape.

409
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Speaker 1: We were on, Um, what what was that like for

410
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Speaker 1: you coming back to hunt white tails again? Because I

411
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Speaker 1: know for me, I came right back from the Alaska

412
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Speaker 1: trip and then I was hunting white tails in Montana,

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Speaker 1: and and I wonder if this had any if this

414
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Speaker 1: had anything to do with why I passed on so

415
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Speaker 1: many deer. Every buck I saw, I was like, too little,

416
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Speaker 1: too little, not the deer I'm looking for. And I

417
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 1: ended passed on a bunch of bucks that when I

418
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Speaker 1: went back and I watched the video afterwards, like that

419
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 1: was that wasn't a bad deer. I wonder if I

420
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,320
Speaker 1: was just having looked at so many great, big, giant caribou,

421
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: everything just looked small in comparison. Um, maybe the Alaska

422
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Speaker 1: hunt just ruined me for Montana. I don't know, did

423
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Speaker 1: you have anything like that. Well, I didn't really do

424
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Speaker 1: any helping again until um, other than a little small

425
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Speaker 1: game hunting, I didn't really do any deer hunting until November,

426
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Speaker 1: so I had a little time to come down from it,

427
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: I guess. But um, yeah, I still have dreams of

428
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 1: those uh those antlers compared to the size of the animal.

429
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 1: And for sure, you know, looking at trail camera pictures

430
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 1: and things like that, you know, comparatively, it had had

431
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,160
Speaker 1: a little bit of an effect on how I how

432
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 1: I viewed the bucks that we had on camera, and

433
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: we had some nice ones, you know, so uh yeah, No,

434
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't well, as we'll get into, I

435
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,880
Speaker 1: didn't do any passing of any of any year this year.

436
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: So um, but yeah, I definitely had an effect on

437
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: me as a hunter. Um. I just feel so incredibly

438
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,720
Speaker 1: fortunate to have had that experience. And it's hard to

439
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: describe the people. I mean, you and I have both

440
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: attempted it. I'm sure of that experience of seeing that

441
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: many animals over that much terrain in that shorter period

442
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: of time. Yet it was still. Um. I mean, it

443
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: wasn't it was a foregone conclusion. Wasn't that mark that

444
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 1: we were going to shoot? And now a big ball? Um?

445
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: But it really became a question of which one, what's

446
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: the experience and all those things that that happened, and

447
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: I really tried to absorb it. So it definitely has

448
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 1: had an effect on me. That was the weird thing

449
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: about that hunt, because, like you said, and like we

450
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 1: talked about, I think on on Steve's podcast at one point,

451
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 1: it was a really unique experience in that, you know,

452
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: barring some kind of disaster, it definitely seemed like we

453
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: would be able to to to kill a caribou. It

454
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: wasn't like there was any shortage of of animals out there.

455
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,040
Speaker 1: So we did just spend an enormous amount of time.

456
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: You know, Steve kept referring to this as mental masturbation,

457
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: and we're just looking at and like looking at these

458
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: animals and say, Okay, which one do we want to

459
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 1: go after? Is this one? This one? Or what kind

460
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: of hunt do we want? You know, sometimes like we

461
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: weren't going to go for this one because it was

462
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: just too easy. It was just too close. So we

463
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:17,879
Speaker 1: almost tried to find that he just got up and

464
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: walked away from you know, he wasn't even gonner. It

465
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: was a heck of a nice boy walking up. It's

466
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: gonna be right up here on top, carry it down

467
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 1: to camp. And he's like, you don't want tap one

468
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: over here. I tried to put you on a death

469
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: march there across to the other side of the bowl. Yeah. Yeah,

470
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: my mom didn't raise any idiots. Mark, I could see that.

471
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: I want to. I wanted you gonna be able to

472
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: keep up with you guys when you when you took off,

473
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: and I had talked to them about it and said, yeah,

474
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm the

475
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm the weak link of this change. So these guys

476
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 1: go on ahead there, We'll watch him over here. He's like, yeah,

477
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: and somebody better stay with him for see. Yeah, he

478
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,479
Speaker 1: had a very convenient choice there for him. Yeah, that

479
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: that did end up being the death march of the

480
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: trip to that was coming back up that final hill

481
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: with a quarter from Steve's bowl and then that big

482
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: moose shed I was I was hurting on that one.

483
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: So you guys, and you especially because those guys do that,

484
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: I mean, they take off and then you know they're

485
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: always doing it. And you know, I mean, I wasn't

486
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,199
Speaker 1: completely sure you're back around and anything when it came

487
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: to that kind of hiking, but he came back and

488
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: he looked like a better man for it. Yeah, it

489
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: was good. It was a good push, that's for sure.

490
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: One of these days, Dan, you gotta you gotta get

491
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 1: up there and make a trip like that happen for

492
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: you too, buddy, dude, It's a dream. Yeah. Well, if

493
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 1: you ever need any um, not that's gonna be you.

494
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,439
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, if you ever need um, if

495
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: you ever need some not terribly helpful but maybe slightly

496
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: inspirational advice, me and me and Doug might will help

497
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: you with that. Gotcha, gotcha? It was good. It was good.

498
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 1: So you you alluded to this, Doug, um, and we

499
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 1: have kind of worked our way up to this in

500
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: our introduction before you joined us though. But but you

501
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: had a weird year this year when it came to

502
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: your white tail hunting when you got back to Wisconsin,

503
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: and uh, and that's what I really want to spend

504
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: most of our time talking about here. Um. So before

505
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: we get to this season, though, Doug can you help

506
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: us understand a little bit of your history and the

507
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 1: history of of your family farm where you're hunting and

508
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: management has been going on. What's the story of the

509
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: Doug Durn family farm there in Wisconsin. What you guys

510
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: have been doing to this point, Well, you know the

511
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: I think it's important to note that family, my families

512
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: on this farm for over a hundred years, and it's

513
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: been past generation to generation generally with one of the uh,

514
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: well not generally. My great grandfather bought it and my

515
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 1: grandfather bought it my great grandfather, my dad bought it

516
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: from my grandfather, and in this generation, um, it wasn't

517
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: necessary for the farm to be purchased by one of us.

518
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: So all of my siblings and I are partners in it.

519
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: I mean, it's our inheritance, for lack of a better word, um.

520
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: And for the last um about twenty five years, we've

521
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: been very interested in dear management on a couple of

522
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: different levels. First, from the conservation standpoint, we have a

523
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: high deer population, and my family has been in the

524
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: lumber of business. I'm not in a lumber of business,

525
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: but my great grandfather, grandfather and my dad early on

526
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: was very into forestry and logging and stuff out, which

527
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: we're doing on the farm as well. But uh part

528
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: of that was ongoing management or woodlands. And one thing

529
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: that we learned in the eighties, in the late eighties

530
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: and early nineties when we started putting land in the

531
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: CRP and planting two trees. If you plant a row

532
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 1: of white pines and then a plant grow of red oaks,

533
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: and then a plant roll of white pines, you're gonna

534
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: end up and do that over acres or something then

535
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: end up developing some really nice habitat for deer uh

536
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: in the in those white pines and the red oaks

537
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: are gonna be like little pobstacles for them to eat

538
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: during the wintertime as they walked down and eat themselves.

539
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: Uh you know, such a great food source the brows

540
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 1: of the red oaks. So there's been sort of these

541
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 1: two uh ways that we were going forward in management

542
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: m a whole bunch of years ago. My about that

543
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: about five years because I said, my my younger brother,

544
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: who's uh, who died in a car accident, and uh

545
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: about twenty two years ago. Um was a bull hunter,

546
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: and he had this great saying, Uh, no matter what

547
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: kind of buck he killed UM, he'd always say that

548
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: that had been a nice buck next year. And so

549
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: that kind of became our mantra of of wanting to

550
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: kill bigger deer and are bigger bucks and and you know,

551
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: we're taking on the quality deer management principles and but

552
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: at the same time still quality hunting meant UM didn't

553
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: always matter that it was a big buck. It was

554
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, the experience of the hunt that you had

555
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: UM and uh, you know, there were a couple of

556
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: devid instances of smaller bucks that were shot that that

557
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: was a great experience for either the hunter like a

558
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: new hunter or a guest or or we had just

559
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: worked all day to get one deer and and it

560
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: happened to be a smaller buck. But by and large,

561
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: what we were trying to do was to adhere to

562
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: most of the quality deer management principles of you know,

563
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: population control, h good age structure. And we did it.

564
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 1: I mean, UM after brilliant since two thousand, two thousand

565
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: and one, the we went from basket racks to um

566
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: you know, undred thirty five, hundred forty five and the

567
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: biggest one we've we've taken is a hundred eight seven inches. Um.

568
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: The biggest one this year was a four year old

569
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 1: that uh, you know, measured a hundred and fifty five UM.

570
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 1: And uh, I guess it's important to say that predominantly

571
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: gun hunters were. Man, it's just we're farmers, and you know,

572
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: farmers don't generally have time to go hunt, and so

573
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: at least in my family, we're gun hunting. Is where

574
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 1: we were doing most of our hunting. And there's except

575
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: for my brother, um, because we were farming anymore. And

576
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 1: by the time he was around with most of the

577
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: lands and crp um. So ah, we really developed that

578
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,719
Speaker 1: and we just had these anecdotal situations where a neighbor

579
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: got egg nuisance tags and he shot truckload or two

580
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: of antler this year one year, and all of a sudden, uh,

581
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: that combined with the letting him go, letting him grow

582
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: mentality that we had, um, we started shooting those those

583
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: bigger class bucks, top row bucks we call them. And uh,

584
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: but you know, at the same time, we're not we're

585
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: not like completely obsessed with it. Um. You know a hundred.

586
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: We started out with the idea of the mixture in

587
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: the next buck is bigger than the last one, that shot. Well,

588
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: then I shot that one was a hundred eighty seven inches,

589
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,719
Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, we got to kind of rethink

590
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: that because because, as one guy said it, you might

591
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: as well show me your view, rightful, if that's such

592
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: it did do um so and true enough, we've not

593
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: killed them bigger than that on the farm. But in

594
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: the five year period of time after that, that was

595
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, in the next five years,

596
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: there were five bucks bigger than that one shot within

597
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: about a mile and a half radius of our farm.

598
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, so other people were practicing it as well. Um,

599
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: at least letting the deer go um, you know, the

600
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,960
Speaker 1: smaller bucks go. Um. That the hurdle that we've had

601
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: with management on our place, and I think in in

602
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: the area is um population control. I'm sixty years old

603
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 1: or going to be sixty years old, and um, a

604
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: lot of fellas from my generation, just as one guy said,

605
00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: I'm fundamentally opposed to shooting those and uh, you know

606
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: that's that can be a hard hard thing to cross.

607
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 1: UM hard bridge to get people to cross. And we

608
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: have some you know, there's some properties in the area

609
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: that you know, they're sanctuaries for deer um not because

610
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: they don't get hunted, but because they don't shoot um

611
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: dose on them, or they won't go out there, or

612
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 1: they won't allow someone else to shoot those or um

613
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: like we just had yesterday with the last day of

614
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 1: our late season and on the only holiday hunt with

615
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: rifle and UM properties that I was taking pictures of

616
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: thirty and forty gear on as I just took a drive.

617
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: Nobody hunting them and no one allowed to hunt them.

618
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: So you know, that's kind of tough. Uh So our

619
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: management strategy to do was to do that, and we

620
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: were uh was to you know, keep a balanced turn

621
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: both for the gear perspective and what we were trying

622
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: to do with our timber um and uh you know,

623
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: and set the size of the bucks that we were

624
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: getting in, you know, and on average we were we

625
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: were doing that and there were years and sometimes you

626
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: have to accept you're not going to kill We're not

627
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: going to kill a buck this year. We're not going

628
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 1: to kill a big buck this year, um so, and

629
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: and everybody hunting with us, family and friends who gun

630
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 1: hunted all, you know, accepted that. Um that's been that

631
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: had been the unknown for quite a while. And you know. Uh,

632
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, c w D was discovered south

633
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: of US about seventy five miles on the other side

634
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: of the Wisconsin River. Um. Funny thing, dear across that river. Um,

635
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 1: and it really uh it's taken fifteen years. But this

636
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: year we had our first two positive uh deer, both bucks.

637
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: When it was a three and a half year old,

638
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: when it was a two and a half year old.

639
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: And you know, we've killed. I killed the two and

640
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: a half year old three years ago that came in. Weeded,

641
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: and we tracked him down and and I shot him

642
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 1: and hundred three inches a two and a half year

643
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,640
Speaker 1: old buck. Second brack. I mean it's system death. So

644
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: when I say a two year old was you know,

645
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: sometimes people think, well it's a fairly small deer. Well know,

646
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: I mean that that ches is very possible. Um so

647
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: and a lot of those deer got shot to you know,

648
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: folks were shooting them. Um because still it's in it's

649
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: a quote unquote trophy or I get my book. That's

650
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: what I'm most concerned about. UM. I would say that

651
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: by and large in our areas, people were passing up

652
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 1: those little forkings and all of that. I don't. I

653
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: know very few people who were doing that. But so

654
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 1: cd w D happens and we start paying attention to that,

655
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 1: and it was a uh, it was a pretty scary thing,

656
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 1: but there were some great benefits to it also in

657
00:36:54,080 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: that for hunting anyway, in that UM again predominantly gun hunters. UM,

658
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: they expanded the seasons for us we had. They started

659
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: to earn a book, which I'm in favor of. I mean,

660
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: I think we need to tweak the system that we had,

661
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: but I should like to see it in me and

662
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: stated and we can talk about that. After a while,

663
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: earn a buck all of a sudden started helping. They're

664
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: being helping. There be bigger bucks as well, because you know,

665
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: I might shoot a doll or a half to shoot

666
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 1: a doll as if they said I don't want to

667
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: have to shoot, but they would shoot a doll and

668
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 1: and uh and then maybe they would shoot a buck

669
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: or that you know, a buck escaped. As a result, UM,

670
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: we saw increase in the area, UM in the size

671
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 1: of the box, the average side of the box. From

672
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: that as well, UM, we started to have a these

673
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: early UM seasons. So you know the year that I

674
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: shot this year that we call the standard this hundred

675
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 1: in the eighty seven inch. I shot him in Halloween

676
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: out of a bowstand with a rifle. I mean, you know,

677
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: I had a buck tag I hunted this year. I

678
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: had him figured out anywhere in is going to do

679
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: and he walked up out of there and I shot

680
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: him at thirty yards or thirty at six. You know,

681
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: he wasn't wasn't going to get away. UM. So that

682
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: kind of hunting opportunity with a gun increase, UM. And

683
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: you know, we enjoyed that quite a bit. And you

684
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: can make make that all of a sudden that became

685
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 1: kind of a new tradition for us. And now as

686
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: the ant of this holiday hunt has has become that

687
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: as ball expanded hunting opportunities, Um, a lot of traditionalists

688
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: didn't like that. Bull hunters didn't like that. A lot

689
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: of bull hunters didn't like coni. You say, all Um,

690
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 1: and I understand those parts of the argument. But the

691
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 1: whole idea was that we were hopefully going to be

692
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: reducing heard populations slow dispresident disease. And U quickly quickly

693
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: here um started to interject, Um, but can you can

694
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: you expand on that element of you know when CTBT

695
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: was discovered in Wisconsin. Can you elaborate on what we're

696
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 1: all the proposed chain just so you just mentioned a

697
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: couple of them, but can you elaborate like what all

698
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: happened at that point, what changed and how did how

699
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: did hunters take that, because it sounds like from your

700
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: standpoint there were some benefits to the quality of hunting maybe, um,

701
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: but I feel like from a lot of the things

702
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: I've heard when I was following this from Afar, there

703
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: was quite a bit of controversy around, you know, some

704
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,760
Speaker 1: of these different changes that were enacted post initial discovery

705
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: of CTB, because it really was kind of a sky

706
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: falling down mentality right after CWT was discovered there in Wisconsin.

707
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: Seemed like is that right? Is that accurate? Yeah, You're

708
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: exactly right. There was very much Uh, sky is falling.

709
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: What I've come I would use using that analogy now

710
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: it's so, yeah, the sky is still falling, but it's

711
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: just falling really slowly. It's not all coming down at once.

712
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: But you're absolutely right. Um. Uh. The Department Natural Resources

713
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,440
Speaker 1: established a CWD erratic Asian zone in the in the

714
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: hot area where it was discovered, and that meant what

715
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 1: they thought the um prescription should be is to eradicate

716
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 1: all of the deer in that area and hopefully stop

717
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: the disease from spreading. Well Mark, if I was my

718
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: farm was in the middle of that eradication zone, and

719
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: they said, we're going to shoot all the there in

720
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: your property, and we have all these different techniques to

721
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: do that. I you know, it would have better in

722
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: our self for me as well. Um So, there was

723
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: some real hot heavy, some real difficult public relations things there.

724
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: But what they did they did then do was to

725
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 1: establish a uh CWD management zone and that's what we

726
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: were in. In fact, we were on the northernmost edge

727
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: of it, seventy miles away from the hot zone. Um

728
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 1: and uh so what they did was expanded hunting opportunities

729
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: for gun hunters in that because you know, you mad.

730
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: You know that I made comments that you may remember,

731
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,440
Speaker 1: I'd made some comments about bow hunters being folks who

732
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: don't have enough to do. Um. Uh but I'm trying

733
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: to trying to become one of those guys. Um But

734
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: um but I mean, let's face it, if you want

735
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 1: to if you want to knock your population back, you

736
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 1: do that with rightfuls a shotguns. You're not going to

737
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: do it with archery. Um and uh. So that area

738
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 1: had a lot of bigger properties and and you know,

739
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 1: I know some of those folks that they were doing

740
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: quality der management and they were way into archery and

741
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: doing good management with their guns and and uh, you

742
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: know all of that. And you know it's just a

743
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: tough down told to swallow. But on before the rest

744
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 1: of us out in the in the CWD management zone. Um,

745
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: it did expand these opportunities. Some might say to the

746
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: you know, you know too far. Um, I mean shooting

747
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:20,879
Speaker 1: a deer with a rifle on October one. Um, well,

748
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: I thought it was great at the time. I mean

749
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 1: I understand the objection to that from from the bull

750
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: hunting perspective, especially when you've got a bunch of gun

751
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: hunters going in the woods during the beginning of the

752
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 1: heatd or right and all of that. Um and and

753
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: so there were things that were really mishandled. The message

754
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: was uh, the idea was correct, The message was needed

755
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 1: some tweaking, I guess would be the best way of

756
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: putting it. And I can, of course, in retrospect everything

757
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: makes a lot more sense. Um. But we started looking

758
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: at do differently than UM. The testing. Uh, there was

759
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 1: a lot of testing down in that area, and then

760
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: they were starting to expand it out a little bit.

761
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:05,720
Speaker 1: We didn't really start testing here at all until about

762
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,959
Speaker 1: uh eight or nine years ago, and then they only

763
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: wanted you to test adult here, um and adult books especially.

764
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: And when they say an adult book, it's the classical

765
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: meaning of one with handlers, um and so um. So

766
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: we started to do that, but it was controversial marketing,

767
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 1: and I think rightly so. Um, there's a lot of uh,

768
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: a lot of unknowns. There's still are a lot of unknowns.

769
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: There's a hell of a lot more knowns now. Um

770
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: in terms of how the disease spreads, Um, you know

771
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: who's spreading it, what we can do to slow or

772
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 1: control that. But eradication that's a pretty tough one, you know.

773
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 1: As I mentioned Brian Richards, CWD expert, that that Steve

774
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: had on the podcast on the media podcast UM hunted

775
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,800
Speaker 1: with me on Friday, and uh, actually before I hunted

776
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: with him, I wanted to re listen to that podcast

777
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,759
Speaker 1: and and you know I used his expression in that

778
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 1: piece that I wrote about taking the gloves off and

779
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: what I meant by taking the gloves off. Was you know,

780
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: we're not gonna I'm not judging anybody about shooting an

781
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 1: antler buck anywhere, and we are. In the last two

782
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 1: years we've been shooting antler list dear um. And it

783
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: used to be pretty shameful to shoot and not be

784
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: bucked that you had to wait. But suddenly we're not

785
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: shooting antler and list dear because we're looking at them,

786
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: whether they're numbing bucks or not. And um. But when

787
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: Brian said, you know, gloves off, I think it was

788
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: in the Finland where a carible herd um had seen

789
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: that he was discovered in the caribou herd and the

790
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: fins that's the correct word for someone continueent went in

791
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 1: and their plan is to kill every year and that

792
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,879
Speaker 1: hurt or every terrible in that herd. That's serious gloves off.

793
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: But it's different, of course because carib it was a

794
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: herd animal. It's different than gear who travel in the

795
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: ways that they do. And um, but it's been CEP

796
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: has been on the mine for fifteen years. There's there's

797
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: there's no doubt about it. And it has there's been

798
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 1: some ebb and flow. Um, we can we continue to

799
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 1: do buck management up until two years ago, with the

800
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: exceptions that I've talked about new hunters. You know, until

801
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: you get some bucks under your belt, you can shoot

802
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: what you'd like. But um, from the older hunters, our

803
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: idea was that even though arn a buck was legally

804
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: not a law anymoren't we I wanted my experienced hunters

805
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 1: to shoot a doe or two before they shot a buck,

806
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: or if they shot a buck, um, because I have

807
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: to pass up a nice bucket if you saw it, Um, Um,

808
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: and and and and the new hunters were just folks

809
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,239
Speaker 1: like Joe Rogan and Bryan Callen who came in, or

810
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: Britney and Helen and came and hunter with Steve. That

811
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: exception was for um and my nephews, and and and

812
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: the new hunters who were friends also. And so you know,

813
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: I guess my point is, so we didn't have that

814
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: real rigid if he's got to be a three and

815
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:28,919
Speaker 1: a half year older, it's got to have this many

816
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 1: points or whatever. We didn't really have that real rigid control.

817
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,040
Speaker 1: But we kept doing that kind of thing until uh

818
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:44,600
Speaker 1: really uh this year to two questions then, Um, First,

819
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: what the heck was it like hunting with Joe Rogan

820
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: and Brian Callen. Did you guys actually do any real

821
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,879
Speaker 1: hunting or is it just laughing the whole time? Well,

822
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,439
Speaker 1: I'm telling you what, man, one of those guys left

823
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: my face hurt and my stomach hurt. Um. Well, and

824
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: as you know, Joe has become a quite an accomplished

825
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: uh archer and uh man practiced an incredible amount. And

826
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: uh so he got into hunting, you know, hook line

827
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: and center in mixed metaphor. But um so, but he

828
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: got into it, you know, deep, and he he had

829
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: his own rifle, he'd been to the range all of that.

830
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:33,839
Speaker 1: It was after that that he got into the archer

831
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: um Kallen. Uh uh, I mean I love the guy,

832
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: I really do. I was skeptical with Steve, asked me

833
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: about it. But now you know, Steve, he's not gonna

834
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: bring a couple of lunatics to the to the to

835
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 1: the farm that they're going to be dangerous on the

836
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: safe And I knew that was going to be the

837
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: case with Rogan because how into it he was, whereas

838
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: Callen is uh Joe's buddy going along. Now, So Joe

839
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: was learning educating himself about it, and Callen was just

840
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,240
Speaker 1: showing up and going, do you think this cashmere sweater

841
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: looks good on me? Um? And Uh. But oddly enough

842
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: I took I took Brian out and uh and Joe

843
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: Steves took Joe so and I was one of those

844
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: really miserable cold opening days. And at one point I

845
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 1: looked over at Brian and I said, I'm going to

846
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 1: tell you it's nothing. Man. If it wasn't for us filming,

847
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be sitting here. I need to be back

848
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,279
Speaker 1: in or I'd be I'd be still hunting. And much

849
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,480
Speaker 1: as we call it. And Uh, I'll tell you that

850
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 1: guy was. He was rock solid in the in the

851
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 1: in the blind as far as understood. Listening to me,

852
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: I was a little concerned. Um. I didn't give him

853
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 1: any bullets until we actually saw a deer. Um because

854
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 1: he you know the rules, you're not going to chamber

855
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: around until you have a target. And I didn't grow

856
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: up that way. He got a round in his chamber

857
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 1: and he's got the gun on safety. But the producer

858
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: the first time we did, UH need eater sdand doughty,

859
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: and he said, hey, you know, we don't chamber around

860
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: until we have a target. I'm like, okay. And then

861
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: with cal And, he said, and uh, you might want

862
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: to hold on to his clip, but until it's time

863
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: for deer to come or to shoot a deer. And

864
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: and he kind of laughed when he said it. And

865
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: I but when we got into the blind, cal And

866
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: was sticking his rifle out of the out of his

867
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 1: blind all the time. I was like, Brian, you got

868
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: a quick doing that. You don't move it a lot.

869
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: We're trying to He goes, hey, I'm an actor. I'm visualizing,

870
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: just dead serious. He says that, And I'm like, okay,

871
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: but get it down and then we're gonna be done

872
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: with it. And to the guy's credit, he took two

873
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: shots and he killed two deer. That's great. Yeah, and

874
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 1: uh but yeah, there was uh the the time, you know,

875
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: in the in the house and and cutting up the

876
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 1: deer and sitting in a fence row with them. When

877
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 1: they started talking about uh, they asked me what this

878
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 1: black stuff was on some black cherry branches, and it's

879
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 1: called black not but it's also commonly referred to a

880
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: ship on a stick. And and Joe, those guys just

881
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 1: started off on that and it became a YouTube video

882
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: and uh, and then I also ended up being a cartoon,

883
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 1: so it's yeah, it was crazy, but it was just

884
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: super fun uh to do. And uh, I mean I've

885
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: I've hung out with Joe and Brian together and separately

886
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: since I haven't done any more hunting with them, but um,

887
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: seem when they're in town or in the in the

888
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: in the region. They gave me a call and gone

889
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: to Chicago and see him and it's you know, it

890
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: became a friendship that um. You know, it's just we

891
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: stay in touch, and it was it was great fun

892
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: to happen. And I can't tell you how much fun

893
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: was bet. They seemed like a hoot. Speaking of speaking

894
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: of a hoot, Dan, you got anything over there. So

895
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: now I'm the guy who has to bring it back

896
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:19,520
Speaker 1: to the topic after that put a lot of pressure on, right,

897
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:24,880
Speaker 1: I know, right, So, Doug, my question is when the

898
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: state of Wisconsin first made the announcement, Hey we have

899
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 1: c w D and it was seventy miles from your

900
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: farm and where you were at, what kind of emotions

901
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: were going through your head? I mean, were you fully

902
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 1: educated at that point in time on c w D

903
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: or was it something you took serious or was it

904
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,839
Speaker 1: just kind of a whatever, I'm just gonna keep doing

905
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: what I'm doing. Yeah, I took it very seriously. Um.

906
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:04,799
Speaker 1: The warnings were, you know, we're from a conservation standpoint,

907
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: you know, her level effects, population level effects, Um, what

908
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: this did, what this did the individual deer? But so,

909
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: I mean I remember then my first emotion being, Wow,

910
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 1: it's really too bad for those guys down there, and

911
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: what are they gonna do? And I hope they come

912
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: up with something to to deal with this, they being

913
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: you know, dn R and and and uh so. And

914
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: then that first year we started, we got those uh

915
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: we got the early season, the early sea, and we

916
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,319
Speaker 1: had t zones before that where you could go out

917
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 1: and shoot an or this deer earlier. But now all

918
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: of a sudden we had the certainer buck thing. And

919
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:50,479
Speaker 1: I mean to a degree it was like, uh, wow,

920
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: that's cool. I guess I'll make time to go hunting

921
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: on that weekend. And when I shot that big one,

922
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: I mean I've kind of credit it, you know, um y,

923
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I would I have killed him with

924
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: a bow, well maybe, but um, you know, there wasn't

925
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: any doubt about it at thirty yards. But um, I

926
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 1: was a rifle but so you know, you kind of

927
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: saw that bonus opportunity there. But I also it was

928
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 1: just really important to me, and it has been sense

929
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 1: to continue to follow it, um and to educate myself

930
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 1: on it, and you know, and hopefully to a degree

931
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: um other folks um that I come in contact with.

932
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: But that was Crest Fawn and it was there are

933
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:39,840
Speaker 1: people were saying, oh, there is Why are we panicking

934
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 1: about this? Why are we panicking about it? And I

935
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 1: don't think there was a panic about it. I think

936
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: there was big resistance. And like I said, understand if

937
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,880
Speaker 1: we saw down there where they're going to eradicate the

938
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: deer um. But so you know, it's sort of like,

939
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:00,480
Speaker 1: and you know, I was watching it from nearby. You know,

940
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: it's sort of like when there's a Now I live

941
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 1: up here in Casinovia, if there's a protest in Madison

942
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: or something, well, I know it's going on down there,

943
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: but I don't have to participate if I don't want to. UM.

944
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: And that was kind of the way I felt about

945
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: that too. Oh. I remember one of the first things

946
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: Stan was, well the rivers there, that's going to slow

947
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,800
Speaker 1: any you know, spreading of it. So then it was

948
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 1: really trying to learn about Okay, I was the disease

949
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:26,919
Speaker 1: spread and and those kind of issues as well. But yeah,

950
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: it was an emotional h it was an emotional time

951
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: for sure. So how many how many years of testing

952
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: did you do on your farm? Uh? From the time

953
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: I mean were you testing immediately when they made that

954
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 1: announcement or was there a uh a lag time before

955
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 1: you started testing on your farm? There was a leg time?

956
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: Um one, Uh, there was an opportunity immediately in our area. UM,

957
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:58,879
Speaker 1: and I had to go back and look at my notes.

958
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 1: But um, we've been testing for at least ten years.

959
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: But that's changed over time too. It was where you

960
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,439
Speaker 1: could Uh, all they wanted to test were adult gear

961
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 1: because they didn't think they'd be able to detected. And

962
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: well like the two that we had this year, one

963
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 1: was a two and a half yield buck when it

964
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: was the three and a half yield. But um that

965
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: they they those deer were those were most likely to

966
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: have it, so that's what they were testing. Now we

967
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: can have it, we can have every deer tested, but

968
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:42,799
Speaker 1: it's totally voluntary, um as it was then. But um,

969
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,800
Speaker 1: they may have had mandatory testing. I'm sorry for not

970
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: knowing this, but mandatory testing in that in the eradication

971
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: zone because we had on site check ins in those days. UM.

972
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: You know, it was a time on a tradition, you know,

973
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:57,959
Speaker 1: you put your gear in the back of the truck

974
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: and you take it to a gas station or or

975
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 1: to the bar or whatever. We checked it in and

976
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: you showed everybody your gear and we got it checked in.

977
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 1: And so then that's when they were doing a lot

978
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 1: of UM testing. But again, the closer you were to

979
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: the hot spot, the more intense the testing was. UM.

980
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 1: But then like where we used to check in here

981
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: in Casnovia, UM, depending on the day, there'd be somebody there, Hey,

982
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 1: can we you know, test your dear can we take

983
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,359
Speaker 1: the limplodes out of your deer? Um? And they were

984
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,800
Speaker 1: targeting those older doors and older bucks so UM. But

985
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: then places were UH stations were set up. UH A

986
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: lot of things that are a part of this. We

987
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: don't have on site checking anymore. So. Actually, a dear

988
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 1: friend of mine who had a check in station about

989
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: eight miles from here, decided that what she was going

990
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:56,360
Speaker 1: to do was become a testing UH site to continue

991
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: to have people come in. Um, and uh, she was testing.

992
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: I think she told me five six years ago she

993
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 1: was testing. They were they were taking the notes out

994
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: of SEV This year was over four hundred and that

995
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: was that's volunteer, voluntary testing people bringing them in. I

996
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 1: want to test it. So Um, they've got more intense,

997
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 1: you know, the closer with God and the more you've

998
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 1: got to be known about it. So so so now Doug,

999
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: that testing has continued. You guys have been doing that

1000
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: your farm for years. Now you finally have the dreaded

1001
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: positive results this year. Um, I guess first, tell me

1002
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,200
Speaker 1: how you're feeling about that? How you you mentioned I

1003
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 1: think before we start recording that you've kind of come

1004
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 1: to peace with it. But what where's your head at?

1005
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: What are you thinking about all this? How has your

1006
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: perspective on things changed since you've been watching this for

1007
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 1: a decade or more slowly coming your way and now

1008
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: it's here. But before Doug answers that, let's take a

1009
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: quick break here for a word from our partners at

1010
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: White Tailed Properties. This week with White Tailed Properties, we

1011
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: are joined by Steve Purviance, a land specialists out of

1012
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: northern Oklahoma and Steve is going to be telling us

1013
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: about what he thinks separates the most successful hunters from

1014
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: everyone else. Well, Uh, to start with, you've got to

1015
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 1: be in an area, um, really a specific area that

1016
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: even potential to produce the biggest deer. Let's just use

1017
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,200
Speaker 1: that for an example. You know, the guys that are

1018
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: killing the biggest are the big bucks. You know, they're

1019
00:58:34,200 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: hunting in states that can produce them to begin with,

1020
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 1: in areas of the state that can grow them. Um.

1021
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: And there's just so many factors, I guess really the

1022
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: first one would be just the tract of land or

1023
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 1: the tracts of land that they had to hunt. Um. Secondly,

1024
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: you gotta have time. You gotta have once you get

1025
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: into that area that's got a big deer, and a

1026
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: lot of people can start identifying them now you know

1027
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: you years ago you just had to put in the time.

1028
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: Now with all the technology trail cameras, et cetera, you

1029
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: can pretty much pinpoint a big buck and what you

1030
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:08,920
Speaker 1: find one, You've got to have the time to put

1031
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:11,959
Speaker 1: in the hunting. Um. And that's a lot of things

1032
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: that you know, that's a that's a big thing that

1033
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:16,479
Speaker 1: a guy can't do these days. It seems everybody's busy,

1034
00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 1: so the more successful hunters are going to have time,

1035
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 1: um and energy to put into hunt that specific big deer.

1036
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 1: If you'd like to learn more and to see the

1037
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: properties that Steve currently has listed for sale, visit whitetail

1038
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: properties dot com. Backslash Purviance that's p U R B

1039
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: I A n C. Yeah. Um, it's interesting. Your listeners

1040
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 1: could go and look at the c w D website

1041
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: for UH Department Natural Resources and you can kind of

1042
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: look at how it's spread over the years because they

1043
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: have year to year comparisons and stuff, and how many

1044
00:59:55,760 --> 01:00:03,560
Speaker 1: of your positive per section which is s um. I've

1045
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 1: for the last two or three years have kind of

1046
01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: kept my eyes open for uh dear that looks sick. Um.

1047
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 1: Two years ago when we the last time and shot

1048
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:19,280
Speaker 1: me either here, um, we found a dead buck by

1049
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: a water hole and it was interesting because I had

1050
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 1: a camera on that trail camera on that on that

1051
01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,000
Speaker 1: water hole and I when I that that ninth that

1052
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: we found and we were up there, UH do building blinds,

1053
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: you know, ground blinds out of brush and stuff, and

1054
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 1: so you know, I contacted the biologist and they said,

1055
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 1: I've got pictures of this year and he don't look

1056
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: that good, but he doesn't look bad. And you know

1057
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:49,800
Speaker 1: how a deer can look on a trail camera picture too,

1058
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: if you don't catch him at right angle off, they

1059
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:53,240
Speaker 1: don't have their head up or whatever, they can look

1060
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: dumpy or whatever. But then to find that deer lay

1061
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: in there where you've got pictures of him for the

1062
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 1: last two weeks too, um and dead. I took that

1063
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: head in tested um non positive. They can't say negative

1064
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: because there's still a possibility and that con so tested

1065
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: non positive and they didn't test or anything else like

1066
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 1: you know, h D or or something like that. I

1067
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: speculated he got hit on the road and it was

1068
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:22,560
Speaker 1: just um, um, we can buy it, and eventually it

1069
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: killed him. We didn't. I mean, he was kind of

1070
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: decayed quite a bit then, so we didn't. It wasn't

1071
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: like we could gout him and find out if there

1072
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: was you know, internal injuries or something like that. He'd

1073
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: been chewed on pretty good already. Um so ah, that was.

1074
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: I don't know where I was going with that, other

1075
01:01:45,120 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: than we were also testing um here that we were

1076
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: finding dead. You know, they test the ones that if

1077
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:55,120
Speaker 1: they take take a deer in that get hit on

1078
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: the highway. They've been testing those as well, just to

1079
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:02,120
Speaker 1: get a bigger sample. So what now now that it's here,

1080
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts about? What are you gonna do now?

1081
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: How are things going to change? And I guess, how

1082
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: do you feel about hunting now in this area? Well,

1083
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,360
Speaker 1: one of the things you said before, what were the emotions?

1084
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: So we've been taking all these deer in and getting

1085
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 1: the results back very quickly. Um, seven to ten days. Um.

1086
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: We had some guys here the second second day and

1087
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: uh of gun season. Some friends have let be in

1088
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: dissent by the way, and how yeah, it's a couple

1089
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: of them anyway, But uh, those deer got tested. I

1090
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: shot about opening day. We shot nine deer on the

1091
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: second day, and all those year got tested. We're getting

1092
01:02:54,680 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: those results back in ten days, seven days, ten days.

1093
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 1: You know, I think when I shot on Saturday, I

1094
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,040
Speaker 1: got I had the results by the following Saturday, and

1095
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: so I felt really good about it. We're getting non

1096
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:09,680
Speaker 1: positively gonna kill him four and a half year old

1097
01:03:09,720 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: buck and he's non positive. You know that's great. Um.

1098
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 1: I didn't shoot one of the kine of the Latians.

1099
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 1: Did but um uh, when I shot the buck that

1100
01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,880
Speaker 1: I that tested positive, we were group hunting that you

1101
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:26,640
Speaker 1: can do in Wisconsin to my brother and a couple

1102
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 1: of other guys, and anyway, shot that buck. Um we

1103
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 1: we it's time to get him out. And I was like, well,

1104
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: put my gloves on and getting them out. And I

1105
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,200
Speaker 1: got a little blood on my pants, you know, you

1106
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 1: know how it is you get and h I didn't

1107
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,960
Speaker 1: think much of it because we hadn't had a positive yet.

1108
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: Then I did that positive result and I'm like, should

1109
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: I be worrying about the blood on my pants? And

1110
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:56,240
Speaker 1: then I'm thinking, oh my god, you're now you're panicking.

1111
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:58,680
Speaker 1: Should I worry about the knife that I used? Because

1112
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: they say you can't remove it surgical you know, from

1113
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:04,280
Speaker 1: steel and all of that, and there's protocols to go

1114
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: to follow this. Um actually something I asked, but there

1115
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 1: was that. It was something that I asked Brian Richards

1116
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: but um which I can talk about in a minute.

1117
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 1: But one of the other points of our discussion was

1118
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: that dick factor. And I just remember feeling very differently

1119
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:26,360
Speaker 1: about that deer. It was a beautiful book and just

1120
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 1: feeling like, so now you can't tell and how do

1121
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 1: I you know it actually happened to be one that

1122
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: I gave a deer that I gave away, that we

1123
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,960
Speaker 1: gave a lay I should say someone else. UM. And

1124
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: then I let them know, as you know, it's positive.

1125
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:45,919
Speaker 1: So they're not eating it. Um, and I'm not gonna

1126
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: eat don't know. I guess that's the other part of it. UM.

1127
01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: The Center for Disease Control and Stephen I talked about this,

1128
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 1: and maybe you and I spoke about a little bit.

1129
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 1: The Center for Disease Control says not to eat it.

1130
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 1: The World Health or Health Organization says not c w

1131
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:06,479
Speaker 1: D posit the meat UM in Wisconsin Health Center says

1132
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 1: not to eat it. That's good enough for me. You know,

1133
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do it. I'm just not going to

1134
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,800
Speaker 1: eat it. Painful to think about that. Uh My buddy

1135
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,760
Speaker 1: who got the other one that tested positive, he'd already

1136
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:19,960
Speaker 1: ground it all up to Hamburger, and you know, are

1137
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,800
Speaker 1: most of it. He had the choice cuts and then

1138
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: he ground everything up for Hamburger. And he's sitting there

1139
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,800
Speaker 1: looking at a pile of meating this reason that you

1140
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 1: know he's They're having a baby in a couple of

1141
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 1: weeks he's like, you know, so that that part of

1142
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:37,760
Speaker 1: it is just they're just killing me. Um. I've had

1143
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 1: people tell me, oh, they don't know, you should just

1144
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: go ahead and eat. To me, that's the hard one.

1145
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 1: And I think that everybody has to decide what they're

1146
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: uh tolerance for risk is, you know, so that that would,

1147
01:05:59,800 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: like you said, it would be painful, I would I

1148
01:06:01,880 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: like that is the Like one of my worst fears

1149
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: is ever to come home one day and have my

1150
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: freezer have you know, the power gone off or something,

1151
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: my freezer shut down, and have all that meat, you

1152
01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:16,919
Speaker 1: know rot. Just the idea of of that meat going

1153
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: to waste would literally cause me like physical pain. So

1154
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 1: this is a similar to the situation you kill the

1155
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,240
Speaker 1: deer and now you can't eat it. That meat has

1156
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,920
Speaker 1: to go to waste. That has got to be an

1157
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 1: awful feeling. Um, how does that change? And we talked

1158
01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: about this before about the long term implications, but how

1159
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: does this change hunting for you in the future when

1160
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: you will make a decision to shoot a deer and

1161
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 1: you have to know in the back of your mind

1162
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: there's a chance that I won't eat this deer, that

1163
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:51,360
Speaker 1: I can't eat this deer. Will that impact you at all,

1164
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: dug in making the decision to kill a deer in

1165
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:57,080
Speaker 1: the future, And that should I even kill a deer

1166
01:06:57,200 --> 01:06:58,920
Speaker 1: if I won't eat it? Um, I don't know if

1167
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 1: that's something that you wouldn't make an impact for you

1168
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 1: or not. Obviously there's other management implications too, But where's

1169
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: your head at when it comes to all that? You

1170
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,480
Speaker 1: Just just asking the question kind of makes my stomach

1171
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: turn a little different, you know, It's like that, do

1172
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 1: I even want to? I can understand why there's gonna

1173
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: be people who say, as I don't even want to,

1174
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,600
Speaker 1: I don't even want to kill a deer. I'm not

1175
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: that guy. UM. I'll tell you this that south of US,

1176
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 1: in the southeast part of Richland County, UM there last year,

1177
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: UM it was a coin flip as the weather an

1178
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 1: adult buckhead um c W D or not. And now

1179
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:45,280
Speaker 1: it's the population according to the recent conversations that I

1180
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 1: had had of the deer that we're tested those bucks

1181
01:07:52,560 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: and fauns of them. We're uh testing positive, so ons

1182
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 1: are testing positive or you can understand it, it's CWD positive,

1183
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: dough and her fawn is developing the phone liv it

1184
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: or she's positive. I can understand where that could happen.

1185
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: So they look, it seems like there's some transfer there,

1186
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: but it may also be because of the you know

1187
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 1: that the the amount of prions that are around and activities,

1188
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: and there's a big there's a big gar population now

1189
01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 1: there as well, um, and that's going to start having

1190
01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 1: That's where they're talking about population level impacts. Um. Anyway

1191
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 1: to go back to your question, I'm not stopping deer hunting.

1192
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:42,120
Speaker 1: What I'm wondering about, and I'm going to continue to

1193
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: take precautions. I'm not going to even me Ah, I

1194
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 1: wonder about a lot of things. Mark. Now it's like, ah, well,

1195
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,360
Speaker 1: there's a processor here in Wisconsin. You may have read

1196
01:08:55,400 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: the articles. You we're not making sausage. We're not taking

1197
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,960
Speaker 1: deer in any We're not going to take sausage. It's

1198
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: we we it's you know. That's that's the level that

1199
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: they've gotten to because if the deer are uh, because

1200
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,200
Speaker 1: not everybody tested their deer, you know, you're not required to.

1201
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 1: It's so really voluntary. Um, well, then why not take

1202
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,439
Speaker 1: der only deer that have been tested well? And now

1203
01:09:17,439 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it's becoming an administrative nightmarage you

1204
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:25,880
Speaker 1: can understand. UM. So you know, and a lot of guys, UM,

1205
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: we we do both processing ourselves and have some process

1206
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, it kind of depends on who it is

1207
01:09:32,360 --> 01:09:35,120
Speaker 1: and when it is and how many years we got

1208
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:40,720
Speaker 1: hands um and UH. And so we have a processor,

1209
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: UM you know, it's a U s D a inspected

1210
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: facility that you know, they butcher all kinds of other

1211
01:09:47,280 --> 01:09:50,800
Speaker 1: meat as well. And in that same facility they're processing

1212
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: deer that UM are being tested because that's actually where

1213
01:09:56,200 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 1: are UM UH food Bay donation program is and which

1214
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: we were thrilled to get back. It went away for

1215
01:10:06,439 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 1: a few years, but now they're and they're doing the

1216
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: food bank donation program. Aga end up being paid um

1217
01:10:13,280 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 1: you know by funds that have been raised to process here.

1218
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,040
Speaker 1: So what they're doing is boning and de boning everything,

1219
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 1: and then they isolate each deer in a separate bag

1220
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 1: with the UH registration number and the c W the

1221
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: test number on it. And if that deer comes back positive,

1222
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: then they discard the meat and if it comes back nonpositive,

1223
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:39,600
Speaker 1: they grind it up and give it to the to

1224
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 1: the food pantry. UM. So when you think about it

1225
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 1: in those terms. Boy, what a there's another concern that

1226
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: the both the facility and then the food bank made

1227
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:54,400
Speaker 1: um you know, suffer as a result of it. Um.

1228
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 1: But I was bringing this up to some of my

1229
01:10:58,240 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 1: conservation friends the other day, UM and one of them

1230
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:04,519
Speaker 1: who's done a lot of work at the testing facility

1231
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:07,599
Speaker 1: down the Black Earth, she said, well, do you want

1232
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:09,680
Speaker 1: to get over your fear of c w D, just

1233
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 1: go down and work for a day of the testing facility,

1234
01:11:12,040 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 1: because it's everywhere down there, ya have. I that really

1235
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 1: doesn't make me feel that much better. And she said, well,

1236
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, the truth is it's it's uh, that's a

1237
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 1: matter of like lowering the risk as much as you can.

1238
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 1: And I get and and the point was that you

1239
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 1: know they've got these um um secures the wrong word,

1240
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: but uh facilities, these kits that are isolating each one

1241
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 1: of the samples, right, So they're doing that. But you've

1242
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: got you're gonna have that's where they're testing the deer,

1243
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 1: so you're gonna have the testing the limph nodes, the

1244
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:53,839
Speaker 1: stuff is going to be around. Their protocols are really interesting.

1245
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: I asked about this. They changed surgical blades on the

1246
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,280
Speaker 1: tool for each year, and I watched this half where

1247
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: I get mine tested or where I get the limp

1248
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,440
Speaker 1: modes extracted. They're actually doing the testing. They're just extracting

1249
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 1: the limp noodes and taking the information, sending them to

1250
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 1: this facility and black earth and uh. And then they

1251
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 1: soaked the um. They discard that blade, and then they

1252
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: soaked the the handle in Uh. It's a surgical you know,

1253
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 1: it's a scalpel. And they said, so candles in some

1254
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 1: solution that currently does as much as they can in

1255
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,920
Speaker 1: terms of removing it. And they're so they're using a

1256
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,519
Speaker 1: clean one for each one, so there'sn't cross contamination. But

1257
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:38,599
Speaker 1: so her point was, even within the facility, it's being

1258
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 1: limited as to how far it is, but you know

1259
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:43,599
Speaker 1: you're being exposed to it. So back to the deer

1260
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: that we are we killed that had CWDT after the fact,

1261
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about blood, I'm thinking about you know, and

1262
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 1: of course it's not I mean, you have to learn

1263
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 1: about it all. But you know, the brain and the

1264
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,320
Speaker 1: limp nodes and the spinal columns where it concentrates to

1265
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:02,680
Speaker 1: begin with UM. So we're not you know, we're deboning

1266
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:04,799
Speaker 1: the meat, which you know is kind of my general

1267
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 1: way of doing it anyway, Um, I'm not eating deer brains,

1268
01:13:09,160 --> 01:13:13,320
Speaker 1: um and uh. But at the same time, you're looking

1269
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 1: at that deer differently, you know, and you've got blood

1270
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:18,560
Speaker 1: on you know something, you're cleaning your knife. Is this

1271
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 1: something they have to worry about it? And again it

1272
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 1: kind of goes back to the because I knew it

1273
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 1: was a question that would come up somewhere along the line.

1274
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: Isn't the risk zero, No, it's it's minuscule. And that

1275
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 1: is one of the things that's really important to remember.

1276
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 1: It's that you know, CWD has not, as far as

1277
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: we know, transferred to humans. UM. There are similar spongeform

1278
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:47,719
Speaker 1: encephalopathy's that UM humans get, like Chris felt the Acome's disease,

1279
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:51,679
Speaker 1: and mad calls another one um Wolu being the third,

1280
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 1: and those are all in the same family. But it

1281
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 1: hasn't transferred um as far as we know. And the

1282
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:00,599
Speaker 1: other thing we don't know is it does how long

1283
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:04,040
Speaker 1: does it take to affect the human you know, Chrei felt, Uh.

1284
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 1: The incomes disease affects people in their mid fifties to

1285
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: early sixties, UM, And it used to be thought it

1286
01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:15,720
Speaker 1: was early onset dementia or early onset Alzheimer's. Um, So,

1287
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: how long does it take? You know? I think Steve

1288
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: asked the question when we were when we had Brian

1289
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,320
Speaker 1: on the podcast. I mean, if it's something's going to

1290
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 1: kill me when I'm a hundred years old, you know,

1291
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: there's plenty of don't even take me before them about it.

1292
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a good that's a good perspective.

1293
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:34,360
Speaker 1: I guess from my standpoint, it's like my friend said

1294
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 1: when he got his positive, he goes, well, you know,

1295
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,680
Speaker 1: he's your age. You know, it's thirty year in his

1296
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 1: early thirties and he's about to have his about to

1297
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: have their first child. And he goes, I'm not going

1298
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 1: to do it. Guy sixty years old, like myself ended.

1299
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:52,680
Speaker 1: You know, I can make that decision for myself, but

1300
01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure not going to make it for my kids.

1301
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 1: And the decision that I have made is that I'm

1302
01:14:56,200 --> 01:15:02,080
Speaker 1: not going to eat it um um. And that might change,

1303
01:15:02,280 --> 01:15:04,040
Speaker 1: you know, my wife here's this, She'll say the hell

1304
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 1: it is, but but uh, you know that's that's where

1305
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 1: that's what my head's at with it. So when I

1306
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: said I made peace with it, one of the best

1307
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:16,200
Speaker 1: things that I did was to have these folks. I

1308
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 1: have just an annual hunt always one day in the

1309
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:21,640
Speaker 1: holiday hunt with some friends that are in the conservation

1310
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 1: murals and Brian richards Uh joined us this time, so

1311
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:27,640
Speaker 1: you know, I got to ask a bunch of more

1312
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:31,200
Speaker 1: questions and follow up on some things. And having gotten

1313
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 1: that positive, it was more you know, at the front

1314
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:39,680
Speaker 1: of my my mind, and I felt better about it

1315
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:45,719
Speaker 1: after the fact. So damn, what do you got? So Okay,

1316
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:51,800
Speaker 1: I don't know why, but I have this comparison c

1317
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: w D similar to the way people approach cancer, right, Like,

1318
01:15:58,360 --> 01:16:01,640
Speaker 1: I didn't really think much about cancer or or you know,

1319
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:04,720
Speaker 1: pay too much attention to it until I've had I

1320
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,720
Speaker 1: had a family member, you know, my stepmother died from it.

1321
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:13,080
Speaker 1: So kind of similar to that way of thinking, what

1322
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: would you say to maybe someone who is either in

1323
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 1: your area that has not had a positive test yet,

1324
01:16:21,920 --> 01:16:25,559
Speaker 1: or maybe the you know, hunters from other states who

1325
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:30,639
Speaker 1: don't have positives in their areas, you know they're hunting

1326
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 1: land yet why is why is it important to be

1327
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:40,640
Speaker 1: concerned about c w D And kind of how this

1328
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:47,559
Speaker 1: spread is you know, growing throughout the United States? Well,

1329
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:53,160
Speaker 1: there are. Well, one is the possible human impact. First,

1330
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 1: that's the reason. That's kind of what we've been concentrating on, right,

1331
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 1: But I know what you mean about that feeling about

1332
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 1: about cancer for instance, And to go back to what

1333
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,840
Speaker 1: I was just talking about my own head, that's actually

1334
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 1: the analogy that I thought of two as well. Small

1335
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:13,800
Speaker 1: consigarettes isn't necessarily going to give me cancer, but it

1336
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:18,200
Speaker 1: is going to increase chances. So I'm gonna change my

1337
01:17:18,360 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: behavior to decrease those chances. Right. So that's kind of

1338
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:24,600
Speaker 1: the same attitude that I'm taking about CWB with my

1339
01:17:24,720 --> 01:17:30,320
Speaker 1: own in my own uh world. So why is it important? Um?

1340
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 1: One of the things one of the first reasons is

1341
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 1: beyond beyond the possible human health implications is especially in

1342
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 1: high density areas, UM, we're getting to a point where

1343
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 1: we're going to start seeing and there is speculation that

1344
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:52,240
Speaker 1: in some of the areas they are already seeing population

1345
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: UH level impacts UM. Down in the in the south

1346
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin River in the zone down there, UM, there's

1347
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 1: been a lot of we're not seeing dear whether kill

1348
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,760
Speaker 1: isn't up, but they're not they're seeing fewer gear And

1349
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 1: you know, the question is is that having population impact

1350
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: levels Because c w D from UH it's incubation. Incubation

1351
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:23,640
Speaker 1: period is twenty four months my understanding of it UM

1352
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:26,560
Speaker 1: and again just had this conversation with some experts about it.

1353
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:29,360
Speaker 1: Twenty four months. The last six to eight weeks are

1354
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:33,400
Speaker 1: when it's clinical, when you're gonna see it, and at

1355
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:35,519
Speaker 1: the end of that sixty eight weeks, dear is dead.

1356
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:39,599
Speaker 1: So two years if we have does and does say

1357
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 1: a year a dough fond has c w D, which

1358
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 1: is happening south of this, that dough is going to

1359
01:18:46,840 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 1: die before she has a faun. If you think about

1360
01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 1: it in the terms of how quickly you know she's

1361
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:55,880
Speaker 1: a fawn, She's sure not gonna breathe. She might break

1362
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: this fall, but she's gonna likely go through the following year,

1363
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 1: and then when she's hitting two years old, it's supposed

1364
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 1: to be dropping her first fond. That's when she's probably

1365
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,760
Speaker 1: gonna die from it. So and the next thing. So

1366
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:11,719
Speaker 1: what about that year and a half old though, who's

1367
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:18,080
Speaker 1: going to die from it? In two years? Well, I

1368
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 1: know we've had I know we all have this. Every

1369
01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 1: hunter out there has this who spends any time observing

1370
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,640
Speaker 1: whitetail dear, you get that old go out there and

1371
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:28,679
Speaker 1: she's the matriarch of a little herd and the little group,

1372
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 1: that family group. Um you know. So I mean, I

1373
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 1: don't we kill the deer a couple of a couple

1374
01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 1: of years ago, it was five and a half years old,

1375
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:38,800
Speaker 1: and you certainly see him that age. But a year

1376
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 1: and a half old, she's not gonna get to be

1377
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:42,519
Speaker 1: five and a half. She's gonna have the disease. She's

1378
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:44,639
Speaker 1: gonna die at three and a half. All of a sudden,

1379
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 1: those animals aren't dropping that one fon or those two

1380
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 1: fonts anymore. So you can see where it's going to

1381
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 1: have a population level impact. Not that it's killing dear,

1382
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 1: but it's killing dear that are having fonts. So that's

1383
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:05,320
Speaker 1: a big concern about it, um and one that I've

1384
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 1: really just started learning about in the last few months.

1385
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,800
Speaker 1: And when they say population level impact, I'm like, well,

1386
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 1: but so it's killing some deer, I mean, and so

1387
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,240
Speaker 1: they're going to still keep reproducing. Yeah, But if the

1388
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 1: deer who are doing the reproducing aren't there, how are

1389
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 1: they getting to reproduce? So um that I find the

1390
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 1: particularly concerning um in our area. The other reason for well,

1391
01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 1: I guess it's not not your maan to CWG. But

1392
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,920
Speaker 1: there's just conservation we have. We have some population issues, um,

1393
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: and we just need to reduce the herd just from

1394
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 1: an overall health standpoint. But UM, I can tell you

1395
01:20:44,439 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 1: one thing that I've learned about c w D, and

1396
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:48,479
Speaker 1: this is how is a science. If you don't have it,

1397
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 1: you don't want it. Um. And uh, it's it's so

1398
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:59,120
Speaker 1: anything you can do to either stop it because that

1399
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 1: ultimate game deer hunting of the population collapse that I'm

1400
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: talking about, that I never stop it, which of course

1401
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:09,840
Speaker 1: is some kind of cure. The only one is the

1402
01:21:09,880 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 1: slow it spread. Um. And how do you slow it spread? Well,

1403
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:18,040
Speaker 1: it sounds a little strange, but what you do is

1404
01:21:18,080 --> 01:21:22,720
Speaker 1: reduce the population so the population doesn't collapse. Um. I

1405
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,800
Speaker 1: guess that's a Vietnam analogy, as we burned the village

1406
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: to save the village. Um. But you do that and uh,

1407
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:32,600
Speaker 1: and then you're looking at the demographic as well, and

1408
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:36,479
Speaker 1: that that's an interesting, you know, dynamic. And that's why

1409
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 1: I took off the the nine buck next year restrictions.

1410
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,439
Speaker 1: The sunburrow there in the sunbrero if you follow that,

1411
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 1: we have this hat that you have to wear if

1412
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 1: you make a mistake, and or you when you had

1413
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:50,680
Speaker 1: where um, if you made a mistake, I'm killing too

1414
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:54,200
Speaker 1: small of a deer. And then where we're you know,

1415
01:21:54,240 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 1: shooting a knob and that kind of stuff. That's where

1416
01:21:56,200 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 1: we were, you know, four or five years ago and

1417
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:05,599
Speaker 1: not now. Um. So the demographic is who's the who

1418
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:09,800
Speaker 1: who are the most widely traveled? Uh demographic and a

1419
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: deer hurt young bos right, So that's the hard part

1420
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:17,599
Speaker 1: when it comes to a lot to kill big anther

1421
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: deer um, which I love to do. All right. Before

1422
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:25,479
Speaker 1: we move on, we're going to take our final break

1423
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 1: of the day to hear from our partners at Matthew's Archery.

1424
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 1: But today rather than hearing about their new bau the

1425
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:34,639
Speaker 1: Try Acts, which just came out this fall, we're actually

1426
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 1: gonna talk about arrows, and again, as we have over

1427
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:40,719
Speaker 1: the past few weeks, we've got Mark Hays, a design

1428
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:43,640
Speaker 1: engineer for Matthews, with us to talk about that. And

1429
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 1: after asking him to help us, I want him to

1430
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:50,599
Speaker 1: help us understand what things we should be thinking about

1431
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:53,599
Speaker 1: when choosing our arrow, you know, arrow weight different things

1432
01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:57,479
Speaker 1: on those lines. He gave me so much value. I

1433
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:00,400
Speaker 1: guess when it comes to what he provided, I realized

1434
01:23:00,479 --> 01:23:02,320
Speaker 1: it would be it would be a shame if we

1435
01:23:02,360 --> 01:23:04,280
Speaker 1: had to cut what he told me down to like

1436
01:23:04,360 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 1: a minute and a half or two minutes. So so

1437
01:23:06,520 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 1: think about this less as one of our ad spots,

1438
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:11,120
Speaker 1: and actually it is more of a segment because what

1439
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:12,800
Speaker 1: I did here is I decided to keep the entire

1440
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:16,439
Speaker 1: answer to my question. It's about a seven minute long segment.

1441
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 1: So if you don't care at all about archery or

1442
01:23:19,200 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 1: choosing the right arrow for your bow, feel free to

1443
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 1: just fast forward from this point about seven minutes forward,

1444
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:26,880
Speaker 1: and then we'll get right back to the interview with Doug.

1445
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 1: But if you are an archery guy and a bow

1446
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 1: hunting guy and you just want to get a little

1447
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:33,439
Speaker 1: more insight into how to make the right decisions about

1448
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:36,120
Speaker 1: choosing those arrows and matching them up properly to your

1449
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:39,800
Speaker 1: bow into your pursuit of choice, I think you'll find

1450
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: this really valuable. So I'm gonna stop yapping. We'll throw

1451
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:45,040
Speaker 1: it over to Marquey's here. Give that a listen if

1452
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,280
Speaker 1: you're interested, and then we will be back shortly with

1453
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 1: Doug discussing his future plans for management in dealing with

1454
01:23:51,280 --> 01:23:56,880
Speaker 1: the c w D issue. Sure, so let's start with stealth. Um.

1455
01:23:57,240 --> 01:23:58,880
Speaker 1: You know, it's fun for us because we are so

1456
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 1: focused on stell self stealth. Everyone was building their hunting

1457
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 1: arrows this year extremely heavy and extremely purpose built, really

1458
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:08,240
Speaker 1: silent veins and all this stuff. Because once you have

1459
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:11,680
Speaker 1: a bow that's incredibly silent, you want your arrow to

1460
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 1: be just as silent. So a heavy arrow is going

1461
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 1: to be quiet. The reason for that is actually twofold. Uh,

1462
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:24,599
Speaker 1: the bow itself is going to be more efficient shooting

1463
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:27,800
Speaker 1: a heavier arrow, and therefore it's going to have less

1464
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:30,640
Speaker 1: sound and vibration, which we were talking about earlier. So

1465
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:36,519
Speaker 1: the heavy arrow itself is great, but there's some myths

1466
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:40,160
Speaker 1: associated with it. People think that a heavy arrow is

1467
01:24:40,200 --> 01:24:43,680
Speaker 1: more kinetic energy. Now, if we're talking just out of

1468
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: the bow, it's really not much more kinetic energy. And

1469
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 1: the only gaining kinetic energy from a heavier over a

1470
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,880
Speaker 1: light is the increase in efficiency, which is only a

1471
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:57,680
Speaker 1: percentage point or or so, depending on how big of

1472
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,600
Speaker 1: a gap you're you're thinking. But a in question I

1473
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:02,519
Speaker 1: get a lot is hey should I shoot a hundred

1474
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,080
Speaker 1: grain broad heads, or should I put tip weight to

1475
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:08,840
Speaker 1: get more kinetic energy? And if you're doing it for

1476
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:12,920
Speaker 1: kinetic energy, the answer is almost always no. UM. You

1477
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 1: should be setting out for a certain arrow weight that

1478
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:19,400
Speaker 1: you're comfortable with to get the speed that you want. UM.

1479
01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:23,640
Speaker 1: If you're talking about kinetic energy, though, you shouldn't be

1480
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 1: talking about more kine energy out of the boat. Where

1481
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,160
Speaker 1: you should be talking about is down range. So we've

1482
01:25:28,200 --> 01:25:30,160
Speaker 1: done a lot of arrow testing in the past. But

1483
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:33,680
Speaker 1: what your goal. I guess in my goal when I

1484
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: build an arrow is one have an arrow that uh,

1485
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 1: I think it's heavy enough to impact the target correctly

1486
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:44,360
Speaker 1: and get good penetration. Then also, I don't want to

1487
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 1: sacrifice a lot of speed. I got twenty eight and straw.

1488
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:50,599
Speaker 1: I want to keep as much speed as possible. UM.

1489
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:56,639
Speaker 1: But with that end heavy arrow, it's going to keep

1490
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: more kinetic energy down range and that's where the differ

1491
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:01,639
Speaker 1: prints is going to be, not out of the bow.

1492
01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 1: And I think that's the big myth that everyone is

1493
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:08,120
Speaker 1: UH has a hard time understanding, is that out of

1494
01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:10,800
Speaker 1: the bow it's only I don't know. I've I've done

1495
01:26:11,320 --> 01:26:14,120
Speaker 1: a couple of tests but let's take forty grains for example,

1496
01:26:15,120 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 1: it's only point four foot pounds of energy more out

1497
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 1: of the bow. But down range, let's say fifty yards,

1498
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:26,639
Speaker 1: I'm looking at sary here, it's one and a half

1499
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:30,599
Speaker 1: and it's going to keep increasing as it goes down further. Now,

1500
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:33,040
Speaker 1: that's still not a lot of difference. And that's kind

1501
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 1: of where I'm talking about those myths that if I

1502
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 1: just had thirty more grains of front, I'm gonna have

1503
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:43,679
Speaker 1: more kinnegic energy downrange. Yes, but not a lot more,

1504
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:47,240
Speaker 1: is the true answer to that. But I will say

1505
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:51,920
Speaker 1: one thing. Front of center is huge for accuracy, So,

1506
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,759
Speaker 1: regardless of the kinnectic energy, regardless of the momentum debate,

1507
01:26:56,479 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 1: front of center is huge for accuracy. So yes, I'm

1508
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:01,560
Speaker 1: going to tell that guy that asked me, should I

1509
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 1: put thirty more grains up front? Absolutely, because your arrow

1510
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:08,360
Speaker 1: is gonna be inherently more accurate because of that, but

1511
01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:11,599
Speaker 1: not necessarily because of the kinetic energy. Can you can

1512
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 1: you briefly explain front of center and why that's important. Yeah,

1513
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:18,200
Speaker 1: So it's the measurement of the balance point of the arrow,

1514
01:27:18,439 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 1: which is, you know, the mass of the arrow wherever

1515
01:27:21,400 --> 01:27:23,759
Speaker 1: it balances is going to be the center of mass,

1516
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 1: and the goal is to get that as far away

1517
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 1: from your steering as possible. What your steering is your fletching.

1518
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 1: We measured in front of center. Um. That goes back

1519
01:27:34,120 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 1: a few years of why we do that, but basically

1520
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:40,959
Speaker 1: the calculation is how far is my center of gravity

1521
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:43,880
Speaker 1: the balance point in front of the center of the arrow,

1522
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:47,920
Speaker 1: and that's the percentage we give. Now. Really, like I said,

1523
01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 1: it's it's the trying to get the center of gravity

1524
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:53,000
Speaker 1: as far away from the steering, which is your fletching,

1525
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:56,280
Speaker 1: as possible, and it's the further you can get that away.

1526
01:27:56,360 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 1: The straighter arrow is gonna stay down range perfect. Now

1527
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:05,479
Speaker 1: what about you know, if if you had to choose

1528
01:28:06,040 --> 01:28:09,080
Speaker 1: people like you talked a lot about the benefits of

1529
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:11,920
Speaker 1: the heavy arrow, um, but then the benefits of the

1530
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,600
Speaker 1: lighter arrow that some people might look at is just

1531
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:18,760
Speaker 1: the speed or maybe that's going to be a flatter trajectory. Um.

1532
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 1: Is the heavy arrow always the better choice because of

1533
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:24,800
Speaker 1: some of the things you mentioned, or is dependent on

1534
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:27,320
Speaker 1: some of the other factors like how fast you want

1535
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: to be shooting, or your draw length or different things

1536
01:28:30,240 --> 01:28:33,760
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, it definitely depends and as you can

1537
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:37,160
Speaker 1: probably tell from this conversation, it's always give and take. So,

1538
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, a light arrow is going to be

1539
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,000
Speaker 1: faster and if you can get that front of center

1540
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:47,519
Speaker 1: um correct, Uh, it's gonna shoot good too. Um. So

1541
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:51,519
Speaker 1: it depends on what you think your maximum ranges. So

1542
01:28:53,160 --> 01:28:54,640
Speaker 1: you have to have an arrow that will get to

1543
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:58,120
Speaker 1: that range without hitting your site. As you're dropping your site,

1544
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:00,639
Speaker 1: you're getting closer and closer that arrow. So you don't

1545
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:03,320
Speaker 1: want a big, lobbing arrow. You'll never get out to

1546
01:29:03,479 --> 01:29:06,360
Speaker 1: the yardage you might be able to achieve with a

1547
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:11,080
Speaker 1: different arrow. However, the light arrow is going to be

1548
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:15,880
Speaker 1: harder in elements, and one of the biggest elements obviously

1549
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 1: that we can think of is wind. Um, A heavy

1550
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 1: arrow with little veins and good front of center is

1551
01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:26,519
Speaker 1: going to buck the wind way way better than a

1552
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,400
Speaker 1: light arrow. A light arrow is gonna carry um. And

1553
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:33,240
Speaker 1: I think you know the goal for me personally is

1554
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:37,320
Speaker 1: I want to arrow. Actually an arrow is specific to

1555
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 1: what you want to do, but let's talk out west

1556
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:42,719
Speaker 1: or when you're shooting long distances and the elements like wind,

1557
01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:45,360
Speaker 1: you want to arrow that's heavy, good front of center,

1558
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:48,920
Speaker 1: and little veins that can steer your broad head. So

1559
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:51,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of given takes in there. You need

1560
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:54,040
Speaker 1: veins big enough to steer your broad head, but small

1561
01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:57,680
Speaker 1: enough not to get bucked by the wind. Um. But

1562
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:00,160
Speaker 1: in the timber you might get away with bigger your

1563
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:05,879
Speaker 1: fletchings and and uhum, with a different kind of broadhead

1564
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: as well, because you're not dealing with that wind. But

1565
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 1: so you know, I look at my wife too. I'm

1566
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:13,720
Speaker 1: not gonna give her a heavy arrow, even though I

1567
01:30:13,840 --> 01:30:16,960
Speaker 1: know the benefits of it for me, because she needs

1568
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 1: an arrow that's gonna shoot at least two hundred sixty

1569
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:22,600
Speaker 1: second or two and forty, just so she can. She

1570
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:26,479
Speaker 1: doesn't have the gap as as fine. Uh you know

1571
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:29,400
Speaker 1: the difference in her sight compared to mine. Her twenty

1572
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 1: thirties huge. She even has a twenty five because of

1573
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 1: how big it is. So if you had to be

1574
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:38,040
Speaker 1: so fine and aiming because your arrow is heavy and slow,

1575
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 1: that's gonna be difficult for her. So I would rather

1576
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:43,760
Speaker 1: have her a light arrow that her pens can be

1577
01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:47,639
Speaker 1: more normal gaps, so then her margin of arrows way

1578
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:52,200
Speaker 1: way smaller. All right, So hopefully you found that helpful

1579
01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 1: and If you would like to learn more about the

1580
01:30:54,600 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 1: Matthews Tryacts, you can visit Matthews Inc. Dot com. What

1581
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:04,599
Speaker 1: specifically are you doing now? You've alluded to a few

1582
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,720
Speaker 1: things like changing your buck management strategy, but but can

1583
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:12,200
Speaker 1: you layout exactly what the new management plan is going

1584
01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:14,320
Speaker 1: forward now that c w D is there? And then

1585
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:21,639
Speaker 1: why what are you doing? And why? Uh? Well? Put Uh,

1586
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:25,600
Speaker 1: the first thing is we're encouraging So I'm on the

1587
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:31,240
Speaker 1: County Deer Advisory Committee and population. Uh, we have population

1588
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 1: issue in the county, not everywhere in the county, but uh,

1589
01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: we estimated we have seventy per square mile of habitat

1590
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:43,799
Speaker 1: in Micheland County. Uh. Some would say more than that obviously,

1591
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:45,720
Speaker 1: some would say less than that, but I don't can.

1592
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 1: I'm following the science. So you know, it makes sense

1593
01:31:50,479 --> 01:31:52,800
Speaker 1: that the more of doom you have, the more interaction

1594
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:56,920
Speaker 1: you have, the more likelihood. So let's reduced the population

1595
01:31:57,880 --> 01:31:59,599
Speaker 1: um and I've been doing that on our farm. We've

1596
01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:01,519
Speaker 1: been trying to do that on our farm for a while.

1597
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:04,160
Speaker 1: And the reasons for one, the fewer dear you have,

1598
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,880
Speaker 1: the percentages are still gonna be the same of c WG.

1599
01:32:08,040 --> 01:32:10,439
Speaker 1: But there are gonna be a few deer who are

1600
01:32:11,800 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 1: fewer dealing these fewer ten percent of a hundred years ten, ten,

1601
01:32:16,760 --> 01:32:19,160
Speaker 1: fifty years five, So there are fewer deer with the

1602
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:24,920
Speaker 1: with the possibility of having a disease. That's one reasons

1603
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 1: for us to do it. We've always tried to kill

1604
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:32,280
Speaker 1: more dear because of our um our habitat concerns. UM.

1605
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:35,720
Speaker 1: We don't manage our property only for white tailed deer.

1606
01:32:36,360 --> 01:32:40,960
Speaker 1: We manage it for forest regeneration, multiple species UM. And

1607
01:32:41,640 --> 01:32:45,519
Speaker 1: we've seen detrimental effects from too many deer, you know,

1608
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:49,880
Speaker 1: as a result, so that's reducing the population. Being on

1609
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 1: the County Deer Advisory Committee, we gave four antlerleist tags

1610
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:59,000
Speaker 1: with every buck tag. Um of guys out filling for

1611
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:04,559
Speaker 1: antlerleist tag. Swell, this guy filled tree. Um. And if

1612
01:33:04,600 --> 01:33:07,040
Speaker 1: you get a buck pig for bow, you've got four also.

1613
01:33:07,120 --> 01:33:09,439
Speaker 1: And I get a conservation patron's license. So I actually

1614
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:11,960
Speaker 1: had a go to bamtlet of the stags if I

1615
01:33:12,040 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 1: wanted to use them, and I wanted to, and I

1616
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:17,439
Speaker 1: didn't get as many as we didn't get as many

1617
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:20,760
Speaker 1: as we've wanted to. So that's one of the things.

1618
01:33:20,960 --> 01:33:24,960
Speaker 1: So UM to reduce the population for multiple reasons, but

1619
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 1: from the CWD perspective, to just knock down the numbers

1620
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:32,559
Speaker 1: to to slow the spread. So the other one, which

1621
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:35,040
Speaker 1: is a little more difficult, is to take off those

1622
01:33:35,120 --> 01:33:43,240
Speaker 1: restrictions on shooting whatever buck you want to um and uh.

1623
01:33:43,840 --> 01:33:47,160
Speaker 1: I thought to myself opening the rifle season, when I

1624
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:49,200
Speaker 1: saw I saw a buck, I couldn't get a shot

1625
01:33:49,240 --> 01:33:52,200
Speaker 1: at him. That excellent came in and he's a two

1626
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 1: and a half year old, and I thought to myself,

1627
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:57,000
Speaker 1: if you are really gonna do this, you need to

1628
01:33:57,040 --> 01:33:59,680
Speaker 1: shoot that deer. Five years ago I had gotten run

1629
01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,040
Speaker 1: off the farm pursuing that here, and I would have

1630
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:04,400
Speaker 1: been the guy running me off, you know, So why

1631
01:34:04,439 --> 01:34:07,760
Speaker 1: am I doing that? That's the year that's spreading UH,

1632
01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 1: that is most likely to have the disease. So that

1633
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:15,360
Speaker 1: year and a half old buck, for instance, UM you know.

1634
01:34:16,479 --> 01:34:20,360
Speaker 1: You know again, as we know dear family's dynamics, the

1635
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:24,280
Speaker 1: dough at the end of her first year is kicking

1636
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:28,120
Speaker 1: that buck fawn away. The doe fawn was going to

1637
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:30,479
Speaker 1: hang around and he'd probably be a part of the

1638
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:36,160
Speaker 1: family group. But young buck goes off to uh to

1639
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:40,640
Speaker 1: spread his goodwill around the around those countryside and they

1640
01:34:40,680 --> 01:34:43,120
Speaker 1: are the ones who travel the furthest and so when

1641
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 1: you first start having uh c w D show up

1642
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:51,800
Speaker 1: in an area, the first positives are year and a

1643
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 1: half two and a half year old deer. Uh and

1644
01:34:54,439 --> 01:34:55,720
Speaker 1: in the case of the southern one of three and

1645
01:34:55,760 --> 01:34:58,200
Speaker 1: a half year old deer. The two that we got

1646
01:34:58,400 --> 01:35:02,639
Speaker 1: we do m not crazy amount of monitoring with trail cameras,

1647
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:04,680
Speaker 1: but we have trail cameras out my my buddy, my

1648
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:07,760
Speaker 1: neighbor and I and uh, you know if we've got

1649
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:09,800
Speaker 1: fixed R eight cameras out. We had both of those

1650
01:35:09,880 --> 01:35:14,200
Speaker 1: deer on trail cameras and they were one was two

1651
01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:15,600
Speaker 1: and a half, one was three and a half. The

1652
01:35:15,680 --> 01:35:18,280
Speaker 1: two and a half had a distinctive split on his

1653
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:21,080
Speaker 1: g two on the left side. Never saw the deer before,

1654
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:22,800
Speaker 1: but dad has showed up with it this year and

1655
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:25,280
Speaker 1: a half. Well maybe not. The other one had a

1656
01:35:25,439 --> 01:35:30,280
Speaker 1: very distinctive palm nation and uh that definitely would have

1657
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:31,880
Speaker 1: showed up in a year and a half and we

1658
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:35,080
Speaker 1: had not seen the deer before. And we also saw

1659
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:39,559
Speaker 1: these deer were also on cameras. Um, we have our

1660
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:42,800
Speaker 1: farms four acres that my life and I own w thirty,

1661
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:45,920
Speaker 1: my buddy owns forty. I controlled some more lands, so

1662
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:48,439
Speaker 1: we controlled about a section. You know, we control about

1663
01:35:48,439 --> 01:35:51,840
Speaker 1: six d agres. And uh, these both of these deer

1664
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:56,160
Speaker 1: came from the northeast part of the farm where we

1665
01:35:56,240 --> 01:35:59,600
Speaker 1: had him on camera and where the highest concentration of

1666
01:36:00,080 --> 01:36:05,240
Speaker 1: deer are just off of the farm. So did those deer.

1667
01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:08,880
Speaker 1: And and it's also a connect connector to the next

1668
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:12,640
Speaker 1: big valley over um you know, so how did that

1669
01:36:12,760 --> 01:36:18,920
Speaker 1: all all happen? And it's it's are our farm was

1670
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:21,599
Speaker 1: split by a highway. We more positives on the other

1671
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:24,280
Speaker 1: side of the road. These two deer were they camp

1672
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:26,840
Speaker 1: on camera and where they were shot, we're within two

1673
01:36:26,920 --> 01:36:31,920
Speaker 1: hundred yards of each other. So um, you know those

1674
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:33,559
Speaker 1: are all things that you know are kind of entering

1675
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:38,800
Speaker 1: into it. So we're shooting. I'm I just letting my

1676
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:41,400
Speaker 1: guests they have a buck, take shoot whatever buck you want.

1677
01:36:41,880 --> 01:36:46,519
Speaker 1: People are still we we Uh. On Sunday, a forky

1678
01:36:46,640 --> 01:36:50,599
Speaker 1: got shot. Um. Uh the second day of the guns

1679
01:36:50,680 --> 01:36:52,600
Speaker 1: he's in a forky got shot by one of my

1680
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:56,080
Speaker 1: legend visitors. And uh, he kind of looked at me

1681
01:36:56,160 --> 01:37:00,320
Speaker 1: and I said congratulations, and h he goes. Well, Honestly,

1682
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 1: I thought it was a dough when I shot it,

1683
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:03,680
Speaker 1: because it was a pretty good poke and it was

1684
01:37:03,760 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 1: with a group of deer, but it was the biggest

1685
01:37:05,240 --> 01:37:06,840
Speaker 1: deer in the group, and he thought it was a dough,

1686
01:37:06,920 --> 01:37:08,479
Speaker 1: so he shot the big dough right out here. It

1687
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:12,720
Speaker 1: was a little quarky, you know. And again five years ago,

1688
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:16,840
Speaker 1: three years ago, two years ago, even yeah, he'd be

1689
01:37:16,920 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 1: wearing that sombrero. And as we say about the sombrero,

1690
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:24,400
Speaker 1: where it once everything's forgiven, you wear it twice and

1691
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:26,880
Speaker 1: you probably won't give a third chance to wear it.

1692
01:37:27,680 --> 01:37:32,160
Speaker 1: So uh so that's all gone. And why we're doing

1693
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:35,439
Speaker 1: that is because we're trying because the demographic that's going

1694
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:37,800
Speaker 1: to move it on next, or the deer that is

1695
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:39,479
Speaker 1: most likely to have it and then move it on

1696
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:43,120
Speaker 1: is a is a younger buck. And I can't tell

1697
01:37:43,160 --> 01:37:46,880
Speaker 1: you how much it pains me to do this. I

1698
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:52,320
Speaker 1: don't envy your situation, I am I can imagine I've

1699
01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:54,800
Speaker 1: thought about this, like, what would I do in this situation?

1700
01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:57,760
Speaker 1: How do you how do you move forward from that?

1701
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:01,479
Speaker 1: And you know, to take a manage principle and practice,

1702
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:05,040
Speaker 1: even even practicing for so long and trying to see

1703
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:06,920
Speaker 1: the benefits of that and reap the benefits of that,

1704
01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:10,040
Speaker 1: and then having something like this come in and flip

1705
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:15,040
Speaker 1: things head over heels. Um man, that's that is UM

1706
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:18,559
Speaker 1: kind of a worse nightmare. Now I want to read

1707
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:21,200
Speaker 1: you something dug and get your thoughts on it. UM.

1708
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:26,160
Speaker 1: The Quality Deer Management Association released a document that is

1709
01:38:26,640 --> 01:38:30,080
Speaker 1: they're recommended practices for deer hunters UM that are dealing

1710
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:33,720
Speaker 1: with chronic wasting disease and UM and what I think

1711
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 1: everything I'm written here is is very much in line

1712
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:37,880
Speaker 1: with what you said. They offer. They do offer one

1713
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:42,320
Speaker 1: kind of um uh slightly different thought which makes sense

1714
01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:44,200
Speaker 1: in a different situation than yours. And I want to

1715
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 1: just get your thoughts on this UM. So in here

1716
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:49,720
Speaker 1: the question asked is should we shoot most bucks at

1717
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:51,839
Speaker 1: one half years of age to keep them from maturing?

1718
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:56,479
Speaker 1: And the answer they provide UM. They go on to

1719
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:59,200
Speaker 1: say that when CWD is first discovered a new area,

1720
01:38:59,280 --> 01:39:02,839
Speaker 1: initial goal include identifying prevalence and distribution of the disease

1721
01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:06,080
Speaker 1: and preventing it from spreading. In this early stage and outbreak,

1722
01:39:06,200 --> 01:39:09,759
Speaker 1: protecting any adult deer can be counterproductive to long term success.

1723
01:39:10,439 --> 01:39:13,719
Speaker 1: One CTBT is established in the deer herd. Older bucks

1724
01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:16,000
Speaker 1: are two to four times more likely to have the

1725
01:39:16,080 --> 01:39:19,960
Speaker 1: disease than younger bucks. Therefore, on paper, the best way

1726
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:22,800
Speaker 1: to combat CDWD where it is established is to keep

1727
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:26,240
Speaker 1: density low and the aid structure young. That means not

1728
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:30,040
Speaker 1: allowing bucks or does to mature at all. However, in reality,

1729
01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:34,880
Speaker 1: hunters are needed to regulate deer populations, and many hunters

1730
01:39:34,920 --> 01:39:38,240
Speaker 1: staying gauge for the opportunity to pursue mature bucks. It's

1731
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:41,320
Speaker 1: cut Amy's opinion that as long as hunters continue hunting

1732
01:39:41,479 --> 01:39:45,679
Speaker 1: shooting excuse me. As long as hunters continue hunting, shooting

1733
01:39:45,680 --> 01:39:48,599
Speaker 1: antless deer, and helping keep deer herds in check, then

1734
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:51,439
Speaker 1: it's more beneficial to have some mature bucks in the

1735
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:54,280
Speaker 1: population than to shoot all bucks at a young age.

1736
01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:57,800
Speaker 1: If mature bucks are scarce, some hunters will become less

1737
01:39:57,840 --> 01:40:02,440
Speaker 1: engaged and shoot fewer antless deer. Therefore, cuting maze recommendation

1738
01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:05,760
Speaker 1: in areas where CTB is established in the population is

1739
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:08,920
Speaker 1: for hunters to harvest analyst deer to help reduce deer density.

1740
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: Continue protecting yearling bucks if you desire, but apply increased

1741
01:40:13,240 --> 01:40:15,559
Speaker 1: harvest pressure to all bucks through and a half years

1742
01:40:15,640 --> 01:40:19,240
Speaker 1: of age or older. So it sounds like the big

1743
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:23,439
Speaker 1: thing here is Yes, it makes the most sense from

1744
01:40:24,280 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 1: a reducing the spread of c w d's UM standpoint,

1745
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:31,240
Speaker 1: to kill bucks, to to reduce density, and to kill

1746
01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:33,720
Speaker 1: bucks to keep bucks from reaching maturity. That makes the

1747
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:36,960
Speaker 1: most sense. But an even worst case in there would

1748
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 1: be if hunters become less engaged and just stop shooting

1749
01:40:39,600 --> 01:40:43,000
Speaker 1: deer and stop shooting dough. So they're saying, if that,

1750
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:45,040
Speaker 1: if we need to keep a few mature bucks to

1751
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:48,439
Speaker 1: keep this from happening, that's a lesser of two evils

1752
01:40:48,600 --> 01:40:52,120
Speaker 1: than if hunters become less engaged. Um. In your case,

1753
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:54,720
Speaker 1: you're already on board with the fact that this needs

1754
01:40:54,760 --> 01:40:58,000
Speaker 1: to happen, so you guys are taking an aggressive approach. Um.

1755
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 1: So I guess what I'm saying all this four is

1756
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:04,560
Speaker 1: I'm curious, what's your opinion on that set of recommendations

1757
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:06,840
Speaker 1: for the general public. Does that make sense to you

1758
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:15,040
Speaker 1: given what you're understanding in your situation too, Yes, it does. Um. Ultimately,

1759
01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:17,920
Speaker 1: what I told everybody that hunts with us is you

1760
01:41:18,040 --> 01:41:21,920
Speaker 1: get to decide. Now there's nobody deciding for you, you know,

1761
01:41:22,479 --> 01:41:24,960
Speaker 1: or me, or you're gonna deal with the wrath of

1762
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:27,720
Speaker 1: dug or whether the here, the sondera or whatever that

1763
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:30,759
Speaker 1: happens to be. So, but you get to make that decision.

1764
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:35,800
Speaker 1: Is that a good recommendation? Um? You know, I'm glad

1765
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:37,280
Speaker 1: you read that mark because I'm gonna look at that

1766
01:41:37,320 --> 01:41:41,560
Speaker 1: a little more closely. Um, what I've decided or what

1767
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:46,160
Speaker 1: we did this year isn't etched in stone. It's this

1768
01:41:46,360 --> 01:41:49,000
Speaker 1: is this is the action, just like last year. It wasn't.

1769
01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:51,120
Speaker 1: I was like last year, just shoot every antler. Serious,

1770
01:41:51,560 --> 01:41:54,720
Speaker 1: it's a nubby buck, that's okay. Um, And to prove it,

1771
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:59,439
Speaker 1: I shot a nubby buck right away. My brother just

1772
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:04,679
Speaker 1: looked at But uh, the that idea makes some sense

1773
01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:08,080
Speaker 1: to me. Also, that kind of follows that attitude of

1774
01:42:08,160 --> 01:42:12,000
Speaker 1: the I factor though too, when you go, man, half

1775
01:42:12,080 --> 01:42:15,560
Speaker 1: of your act this disease? Do I only want to

1776
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:18,600
Speaker 1: hunt him anymore? So it kind of speaks to the

1777
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:22,679
Speaker 1: same idea. Um, I'm not going to stop hunting deer

1778
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:26,320
Speaker 1: because of c w D. I might hunt it more aggressively.

1779
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 1: I can understand where someone who is um, I don't

1780
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:36,360
Speaker 1: like the idea of testing of the possibility of throwing

1781
01:42:36,479 --> 01:42:41,320
Speaker 1: half of the deer that we kill away, throwing your

1782
01:42:41,360 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 1: meat away. I just but but I mean, the reality

1783
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:48,559
Speaker 1: is if I'm going to continue to follow the CDC

1784
01:42:49,479 --> 01:42:53,240
Speaker 1: and that will health organization ideas, that's what we're probably

1785
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:55,920
Speaker 1: head anymore. And anybody who has c d w D

1786
01:42:56,000 --> 01:42:59,800
Speaker 1: approaching them, it's just over time, it's going to get there. UM.

1787
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 1: I love shooting Big Bucks, and I like and I'd

1788
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:08,880
Speaker 1: like seeling to get to that age where our farm

1789
01:43:09,120 --> 01:43:12,599
Speaker 1: is in our area and given everybody who had all

1790
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:17,360
Speaker 1: these people who have different uh attitudes about it, my cousin,

1791
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:20,439
Speaker 1: but I'm not worried about it at all. And I

1792
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:22,240
Speaker 1: like shoot Big Bucks and if you're not going to

1793
01:43:22,320 --> 01:43:25,160
Speaker 1: eat the meat, you shouldn't be hunt And I'm like,

1794
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:28,760
Speaker 1: that's your opinion, and I appreciate it, and you know,

1795
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:30,720
Speaker 1: you do that on your land. I just think that

1796
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:35,560
Speaker 1: everyone has to make that decision for themselves. And I

1797
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:43,519
Speaker 1: like the population one. UM. There are experts in the

1798
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:48,680
Speaker 1: field who say, see, it's not a population based disease,

1799
01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:51,000
Speaker 1: it's a demo and then they failed to say that

1800
01:43:51,040 --> 01:43:55,760
Speaker 1: it was demographic disease. UM, you know, spread disease. So there,

1801
01:43:56,120 --> 01:43:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, there's an argument that's made against UM population

1802
01:44:00,040 --> 01:44:02,559
Speaker 1: and declined again kind of goes back, you're shooting all

1803
01:44:02,600 --> 01:44:06,080
Speaker 1: the you're shooting those, but once those get it, we're

1804
01:44:06,080 --> 01:44:11,600
Speaker 1: not going to have enough here to reproduce. UM. I

1805
01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:13,320
Speaker 1: think q d M is hitting on the head man.

1806
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:15,760
Speaker 1: I like that. And at the end of the day,

1807
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:18,000
Speaker 1: you and I both know and all three of us

1808
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:22,439
Speaker 1: know that no matter what season structure, and no matter

1809
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:25,120
Speaker 1: how it's set up, the people who are still doing

1810
01:44:25,160 --> 01:44:28,080
Speaker 1: the management are the guys with men and women with

1811
01:44:28,240 --> 01:44:30,600
Speaker 1: bows in their hands and guns in their hands. And

1812
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:34,800
Speaker 1: the landowner or the h or the leader of the

1813
01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:38,880
Speaker 1: group or or or that person hunting is the one

1814
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:41,519
Speaker 1: who's making the decision as to how they're gonna how

1815
01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:44,200
Speaker 1: they're going to handle it. What I would say is,

1816
01:44:44,280 --> 01:44:51,800
Speaker 1: please get your dear tested. Please encourage your government officials

1817
01:44:51,880 --> 01:44:57,000
Speaker 1: to uh continue and expand research on this, which actually

1818
01:44:57,080 --> 01:45:02,800
Speaker 1: there's a acting Congress that was co sponsored by Representive

1819
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:07,000
Speaker 1: round Kind, US Representative Roun Kind who's now my representative,

1820
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:13,679
Speaker 1: UM on more funding for c w d UM research

1821
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:20,080
Speaker 1: and very supportive of that. UM. But I think it's

1822
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:23,920
Speaker 1: a mistake too. UM think that, and you know, and

1823
01:45:24,200 --> 01:45:26,720
Speaker 1: make your own decision about eating eating meat. But I

1824
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:28,960
Speaker 1: think it's a mistake to say, well, we can't do

1825
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 1: anything about it. And there are people who are saying this, Um,

1826
01:45:32,720 --> 01:45:37,760
Speaker 1: not anybody who's listening to your show. But but we can't,

1827
01:45:37,960 --> 01:45:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, So we're just going to continue to do

1828
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:42,719
Speaker 1: what we want to do. People are gonna make that decision,

1829
01:45:42,920 --> 01:45:45,280
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about it. Heck, here in Richland County,

1830
01:45:46,320 --> 01:45:49,320
Speaker 1: the hunting land is privately owned. Well, who's making the

1831
01:45:49,400 --> 01:45:54,559
Speaker 1: management decisions landowners? It's each individual landowner, you know. Um,

1832
01:45:55,200 --> 01:45:58,960
Speaker 1: But I if you're anywhere near c w D zone,

1833
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:02,280
Speaker 1: I would I think the model that we followed up

1834
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:04,800
Speaker 1: as it got closer, we got more, we ramped up

1835
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:08,639
Speaker 1: our testing even and we actually demanded more testing, personally

1836
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:15,760
Speaker 1: demanded it. Um. Uh. The data is really important for

1837
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:20,840
Speaker 1: the scientists to have. Um. You know, there's so many

1838
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:22,559
Speaker 1: reasons to get it tested. The thing you can make

1839
01:46:22,600 --> 01:46:24,280
Speaker 1: your own decision about to meet. We make your own

1840
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:27,479
Speaker 1: decision about what dear you even shoot too. But I

1841
01:46:27,640 --> 01:46:29,559
Speaker 1: like the I like what I what you read there, Mark,

1842
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:31,960
Speaker 1: and I agree with it. I mean I'm a little

1843
01:46:32,040 --> 01:46:35,160
Speaker 1: more aggressive than than that. And also in our area,

1844
01:46:35,200 --> 01:46:40,599
Speaker 1: you're not gonna I mean Friday, uh, we we were

1845
01:46:40,600 --> 01:46:43,040
Speaker 1: able to move about a dozen deer. Unfortunately we didn't

1846
01:46:43,120 --> 01:46:46,160
Speaker 1: kill any of them because the best shots that we

1847
01:46:46,240 --> 01:46:51,120
Speaker 1: had at dear we're all antlered bocks. You know. I

1848
01:46:51,479 --> 01:46:55,120
Speaker 1: work pushed some antlered box by by some friends that

1849
01:46:55,200 --> 01:47:03,160
Speaker 1: they're like, these deer came true and every one of them. Yeah,

1850
01:47:03,160 --> 01:47:04,760
Speaker 1: it was an apple the season, so you do to

1851
01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:11,400
Speaker 1: do so you know that that was that was difficult.

1852
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:17,120
Speaker 1: Um Son, Yeah, I feel like I feel like after

1853
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:22,040
Speaker 1: all this, I'm still at the same place I was

1854
01:47:22,760 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 1: um before we start chatting, which is if you don't

1855
01:47:28,120 --> 01:47:30,400
Speaker 1: have c w D now, you don't want to get

1856
01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:34,040
Speaker 1: it in your area because just just hearing your story

1857
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:36,559
Speaker 1: of the things that you have to think about now

1858
01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:38,920
Speaker 1: and the changes in your management strategy, and I think

1859
01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:41,920
Speaker 1: I think your situation is something that we're just going

1860
01:47:41,960 --> 01:47:44,880
Speaker 1: to see happening more and more and as we as

1861
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 1: we go on and more people have to deal with this,

1862
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:49,200
Speaker 1: they're going to have to make management decisions similar to

1863
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:51,960
Speaker 1: those that you are, because I think the research is

1864
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:54,000
Speaker 1: going to continue to show and continue to point to

1865
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:56,120
Speaker 1: the fact that this is something we have to take seriously.

1866
01:47:56,920 --> 01:47:59,960
Speaker 1: To your point earlier, there's still are people that don't

1867
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:02,120
Speaker 1: want to take it seriously, but I think that we're

1868
01:48:02,200 --> 01:48:05,800
Speaker 1: just going to We're going to continue seeing that that's

1869
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:07,639
Speaker 1: just not the case. We have to take it seriously.

1870
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:10,160
Speaker 1: And if you're going to take it seriously, it will

1871
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:14,040
Speaker 1: require in some cases drastic changes to to how we hunt.

1872
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:17,360
Speaker 1: And um, a lot of the things you're going through

1873
01:48:17,520 --> 01:48:20,080
Speaker 1: right now, UM, I think are going to be an

1874
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:23,560
Speaker 1: unfortunate reality for more folks. So so my moral of

1875
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:26,080
Speaker 1: this whole story is that if you don't have it,

1876
01:48:27,040 --> 01:48:29,479
Speaker 1: make sure that you do everything you possibly can from

1877
01:48:29,520 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 1: an individual standpoint to slow down the spread in your area.

1878
01:48:33,320 --> 01:48:36,920
Speaker 1: And then, as you mentioned earlier, Doug, pressure and communicate

1879
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:39,600
Speaker 1: to your representatives, whether it be in your Game and

1880
01:48:39,640 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 1: Fish department or the politicians whoever it might be these

1881
01:48:43,479 --> 01:48:46,080
Speaker 1: days that are making decisions around this, to to also

1882
01:48:46,160 --> 01:48:49,080
Speaker 1: take this seriously and support those people that are taking

1883
01:48:49,120 --> 01:48:52,320
Speaker 1: it seriously. UM. That's kind of where my head is

1884
01:48:52,680 --> 01:48:55,760
Speaker 1: at after all this, Um Dan, do you have any

1885
01:48:55,800 --> 01:48:58,519
Speaker 1: final questions for Doug or thoughts on this whole thing.

1886
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:01,160
Speaker 1: You've been quite over there, feel like you're just stewing

1887
01:49:01,400 --> 01:49:05,879
Speaker 1: and worrying, UM, because I know you you have concerns

1888
01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:08,760
Speaker 1: about this too. It's just something that we all need

1889
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:12,240
Speaker 1: to be aware of, man, and and uh stay up today.

1890
01:49:12,360 --> 01:49:16,080
Speaker 1: You know, I've mentioned this in uh one of my

1891
01:49:16,160 --> 01:49:22,160
Speaker 1: own podcasts, that it's something that we have to pay attention.

1892
01:49:22,320 --> 01:49:26,040
Speaker 1: You know. Deer hunting these days is threatened from all

1893
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:30,120
Speaker 1: different angles, whether it's disease or laws or or you

1894
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:34,400
Speaker 1: know whatever. And we have to educate ourselves as hunters.

1895
01:49:34,560 --> 01:49:38,439
Speaker 1: And you know, it's not just about big bucks anymore.

1896
01:49:38,640 --> 01:49:43,560
Speaker 1: It goes far beyond that. Yeah, well, Doug, uh do

1897
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:45,439
Speaker 1: you have any final thoughts? I was going to say

1898
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:47,720
Speaker 1: there was one more thing. That's there's a group out

1899
01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:50,320
Speaker 1: there called the c w D Alliance and you can

1900
01:49:50,680 --> 01:49:54,439
Speaker 1: google them and find them, and it's everyone from White

1901
01:49:54,479 --> 01:49:58,479
Speaker 1: Tails Unlimited to Rocky Out and Out Foundation or involved

1902
01:49:58,479 --> 01:50:02,559
Speaker 1: with that, and they're trying to UM put information out.

1903
01:50:03,320 --> 01:50:05,840
Speaker 1: I posted on my Instagram a photo of it a

1904
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:09,679
Speaker 1: while ago of their their page. That's a good source.

1905
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:12,240
Speaker 1: But I'd also say if you want to follow what's

1906
01:50:12,280 --> 01:50:17,160
Speaker 1: going on in Wisconsin, UM, even though we're we need

1907
01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:20,640
Speaker 1: more political strength, I guess to do more about it.

1908
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:23,519
Speaker 1: The c w D, the d n R c w

1909
01:50:23,640 --> 01:50:28,920
Speaker 1: D website is a real interesting UM source of information.

1910
01:50:29,840 --> 01:50:33,120
Speaker 1: Um So those are two places that I would uh

1911
01:50:34,400 --> 01:50:38,320
Speaker 1: suggest that you go great. Well, Doug, I appreciate you

1912
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:41,920
Speaker 1: sharing this with us. Um. It's it's one thing to

1913
01:50:42,040 --> 01:50:45,680
Speaker 1: have people tell you about hypothetical risks or concerns about CWD.

1914
01:50:46,160 --> 01:50:48,479
Speaker 1: It's another to hear the story of someone who's actually

1915
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:50,800
Speaker 1: dealing with it right now and how it's impacting their

1916
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:55,559
Speaker 1: actual hunting experiences. UM. So I just appreciate you sharing

1917
01:50:55,600 --> 01:50:58,439
Speaker 1: that and letting us know what's going on in your head,

1918
01:50:58,840 --> 01:51:01,160
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do where things are headed. I

1919
01:51:01,240 --> 01:51:04,559
Speaker 1: found it helpful. Um and uh, And I know it's

1920
01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:07,840
Speaker 1: a bummer of course for your actual deer hunting, But

1921
01:51:07,880 --> 01:51:09,920
Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier, I do think that you are

1922
01:51:10,840 --> 01:51:14,240
Speaker 1: achieving something positive here by at least sharing your experience

1923
01:51:14,280 --> 01:51:16,320
Speaker 1: with others. I think that will help other people. So

1924
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:20,320
Speaker 1: thank you, Doug. Yeah, well you're welcome. You know. One

1925
01:51:20,439 --> 01:51:22,680
Speaker 1: last thing that I would say about that is yesterday,

1926
01:51:23,439 --> 01:51:27,080
Speaker 1: it was the last day of our season, and and uh,

1927
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:28,599
Speaker 1: I was out at the farm, and I was taking

1928
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:30,120
Speaker 1: care of the cattle, and I was doing you know,

1929
01:51:30,280 --> 01:51:34,400
Speaker 1: some farm activities, and I look up and there's a

1930
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:38,280
Speaker 1: dough and two fonts working across this bowl behind the barn,

1931
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:42,479
Speaker 1: and uh, I'm like, well, there we go. Um, And

1932
01:51:42,600 --> 01:51:47,200
Speaker 1: I caught myself just watching them with the eye of

1933
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:52,360
Speaker 1: appreciation and then thought, oh, but you want to reduce

1934
01:51:52,439 --> 01:51:54,240
Speaker 1: the curd, you need to go and get your rifle

1935
01:51:54,280 --> 01:51:57,280
Speaker 1: and shoot that door or one of those fawns. And

1936
01:51:57,360 --> 01:51:59,599
Speaker 1: by the time that I by the time I didn't

1937
01:51:59,720 --> 01:52:02,280
Speaker 1: got right went into the farmhouse, got rifle and then

1938
01:52:02,760 --> 01:52:04,080
Speaker 1: got up to where I could have got a shot

1939
01:52:04,120 --> 01:52:07,519
Speaker 1: at him. They were not in a position or situation

1940
01:52:07,600 --> 01:52:08,880
Speaker 1: where I could have shot at him, and I what

1941
01:52:08,960 --> 01:52:11,360
Speaker 1: didn't want to start chasing him at that point because

1942
01:52:11,360 --> 01:52:14,600
Speaker 1: it was really late in the day. But so I

1943
01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:18,320
Speaker 1: stopped there and sort of appreciated the the beauty of

1944
01:52:18,360 --> 01:52:22,880
Speaker 1: those animals and that some going down behind them, and

1945
01:52:23,040 --> 01:52:27,040
Speaker 1: the whole situation. And uh, I think it was at

1946
01:52:27,080 --> 01:52:29,120
Speaker 1: that moment mark that I settled in my that I

1947
01:52:29,240 --> 01:52:32,639
Speaker 1: made peace with the whole thing. You know that there's

1948
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:36,400
Speaker 1: still the coolest animal out there, and uh, and I

1949
01:52:36,560 --> 01:52:38,760
Speaker 1: just and uh and I love them and I love

1950
01:52:38,840 --> 01:52:42,160
Speaker 1: it and uh, it's unfortunate this is going on, but

1951
01:52:42,280 --> 01:52:46,080
Speaker 1: when you can, you know, I got to that point anyway, Yeah,

1952
01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:49,520
Speaker 1: I think That's a great way to end this conversation

1953
01:52:49,560 --> 01:52:53,360
Speaker 1: because you're right there, there's challenges, but there's still a

1954
01:52:53,439 --> 01:52:57,280
Speaker 1: lot to be appreciated and enjoyed. And I guess that's

1955
01:52:57,760 --> 01:52:59,680
Speaker 1: kind of the beauty of deer hunting. There's a lot

1956
01:52:59,720 --> 01:53:02,160
Speaker 1: of eight things. There's some challenging things. We have our

1957
01:53:02,240 --> 01:53:05,880
Speaker 1: ups and downs, but they keep us going year after

1958
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:08,680
Speaker 1: year getting excited about them. And uh, and that's a

1959
01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:12,320
Speaker 1: good thing. Here's to another year deer hunting, Yes, sir,

1960
01:53:13,960 --> 01:53:16,800
Speaker 1: And that will do it for episode number one, nine

1961
01:53:17,000 --> 01:53:20,080
Speaker 1: six of the Wired Hunt podcast, and we'll wrap things

1962
01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:21,960
Speaker 1: up here pretty quickly. Just want to give a big

1963
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:25,040
Speaker 1: thank you to our partners who help make this show

1964
01:53:25,600 --> 01:53:28,320
Speaker 1: a reality. So big thank you to sit a gear

1965
01:53:28,439 --> 01:53:32,120
Speaker 1: Yettie Coolers, Matthew's Archery, Mayven Optics, the White Tail Institute

1966
01:53:32,160 --> 01:53:35,720
Speaker 1: of North America, Trophy Ridge and Hunt Terror Maps, and

1967
01:53:36,520 --> 01:53:41,560
Speaker 1: most importantly, thank you for listening. Appreciate your time, Appreciate

1968
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:44,920
Speaker 1: you tuning in all of two thousand seventeen, and hopefully

1969
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:47,679
Speaker 1: we can do things even better here in two thousand eighteen.

1970
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:50,600
Speaker 1: Lots of exciting news on the horizon. Can't wait to

1971
01:53:50,720 --> 01:53:53,000
Speaker 1: share with you some new things we've got going on,

1972
01:53:53,479 --> 01:53:56,200
Speaker 1: and until next time, if you are still hunting, I

1973
01:53:56,280 --> 01:53:58,200
Speaker 1: hope you're having some fun out there, hope you have

1974
01:53:58,640 --> 01:54:02,280
Speaker 1: some good luck, and until him next time, stay Wired

1975
01:54:02,680 --> 01:54:07,640
Speaker 1: to Hunt m