1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Hello, Michael, and I'm Scott Sashnik. On this weekly podcast, 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: we explore the big money issues in the world of 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: sports and talk to some of the biggest players in 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,200 Speaker 1: the industry. This week, Scott and Evans speak with Joe Asher, 5 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: the CEO of US Operations at William Hill, in a 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: few minutes. But first let's look at the top stories 7 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: of the week. Joining us is Bloomberg Business of Sports 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: reporter Evan Noby Williams. Let's start. We've got a new 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: owner that is in the National Football League with approval pending. 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: Of course, well he's pre vetted. David Tepper is a 11 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: part owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers. He'll have to get 12 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: rid of that, of course, as part of his deal 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: to buy the Carolina Panthers. An interesting note, by the way, 14 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: I was told by somebody on his inner circle that 15 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: his private plane is decorated with Steelers colors, so like 16 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: you could see him at home depot right now buying 17 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 1: some blue paint, like you gotta fix that, bye bye black, 18 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: bye bye gold. Gotta paint the tail into the tail 19 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: stripes blue. But he paid, and we're trying to figure 20 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: out if you're the NFL are you happy about a 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: two point three billion dollar price tag? Are you not happy? 22 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: There was some talk early on that Jerry Richardson wanted 23 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: three billion dollars and some of the other folks bid 24 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: two points six, but they didn't have the money. So 25 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: I've been two point three ties what Joe Sigh valued 26 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: the Nets at. It's close to two point two that 27 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: Tilman for Tita paid for the Houston Rockets. But the 28 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: NFL is supposed to be the big behemoth. Yeah, this 29 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: is the first NFL team to be on the market 30 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: since the Pagoulas bought the Bills. In that time, there's 31 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: been a number of NBA transactions. As you said, that 32 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 1: was one point four billion four years ago, So you're 33 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: happy with that appreciation. I mean, it's it's a tremendous appreciation. 34 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: It's a good rate in a vacuum. Uh. The fact 35 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: that this is what the Nets sold for without the 36 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: Barclay Center, just the team itself, um, I would imagine 37 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: is probably speaks more to the NBA's growth recently than 38 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: than the NFL's. The national revenues are so great in 39 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: the NFL. Yeah, but the Nets play in New York 40 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: and then the Panthers playing Charlotte Um two different markets obviously, 41 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: But yes, I think if you're an NBA fan, or 42 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: if you're Adam Silver, you're thrilled that the Brooklyn Nets 43 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: without their buildings, sold for the same amount as an 44 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: NFL franchise in two thousand eighteen. But even though yes, 45 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: we're talking Carolina Panthers versus the New York audience, still 46 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: it's the NFL and the Panthers will get exposure nationally 47 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: at some point. Here is what would worry me that 48 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: only one whale and by that I mean multi multi 49 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: billionaire showed up for the party. That's it. That's this 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: is the this is the this is the kind of 51 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: guy you want petting on your franchises. You'd like to 52 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: have three or four of them involved, and he was 53 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: the only one. In fairness, there are a number of 54 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: other teams that we're expecting to hit the market at 55 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: some point in the next couple of years. We've certainly 56 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: heard that there are people with a lot of New 57 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: Orleans maybe waiting for those to hit the market as well. 58 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: So we'll see in this next round who shows up 59 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: to the party. Speaking of football, Los Angeles Rams owner 60 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: stand Crunky and his wife and Walton Cronkey are investing 61 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: one point six billion dollars in the team's new Englewood Stadium. 62 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the numbers that we've just heard. They're 63 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,919 Speaker 1: investing one point six when the bills sold for one 64 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: point four the cost of the stadium has gone from 65 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: two to four point five. Four point six. You have 66 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: to wonder, and he's agreed to cover cost overruns. By 67 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: the way, is this a good bet ken l A 68 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: produce enough season ticket holders PSL buyers sponsorship dollars to 69 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: justify this sort of expenditure. Everything about the money involved 70 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: here is mind bowing. The most expensive stadium ever built 71 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: in the US before this one was was met Life. 72 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: Where the Jets and Giants play one point seven billion, 73 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: They're gonna end up more than blowing past doubling that. 74 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: Who knows. At the end of this this could be 75 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: a five billion dollars product. Part of this, by the ways, 76 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: earthquake construction demands, which isn't a surprise. Yeah, you know 77 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: where you're building, exactly where you're building it. Uh, He's 78 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: building a building that is worth twice as much as 79 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: the team is worth and Scott's right. That certainly starts 80 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: to raise questions about whether or not this is an 81 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 1: l a market that's getting two new teams that are 82 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: going to play there. It has a new soccer team, 83 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: it has two basketball teams, a hockey team. There's a 84 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: lot of sports there to college football franchises that are 85 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: blue bloods. Um, there's a lot of competition there for 86 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: for dollars. JP Morgan is going to lead the raise 87 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: and then they'll syndicate out let. Let's see what the 88 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: appetite is. Speaking of team owners, owner of the Mavericks, 89 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: the NBA's Mark Cuban says, because of sports betting, every 90 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: pro sports team is going to double in value. Now, 91 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: let's see if that happens. Because probably the biggest thing 92 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: of the week, the biggest decision for sports betting from 93 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. They struck down federal law this week 94 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: that effectively and commercial sports betting in most states, opening 95 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: the door to legalize betting. Stephen Paliuca, the main Capital 96 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: Public Equity co chairman, says that while the ruling allows 97 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: the nation to bet on sports, not every state will 98 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 1: agree to it. My understanding is the ruling is actually 99 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: focused on states rights more than anything else. So we'll 100 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: see how that plays out. Um, they have gambling all 101 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: over the rest of the nations, and as you know, 102 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: in the UK soccer gambling, so I think it will 103 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: play out as a state's rights ruling. I know we 104 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: talked about this earlier this week, but here we go 105 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 1: because we have tried to dissect this ruling and what 106 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: it means for the entire industry. Pile Uca, by the way, 107 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: more than just being capital, he also part owner of 108 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: the Boston Celtics, so he's he's got some skin in 109 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 1: the game in sports. And as for Cubans comment, Evans 110 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: saw at first I was paying attention to something else 111 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: that he called my attention to it. So I message 112 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: Mark and I said, we'd sort of like to use 113 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: your comments. But I get the feeling you were being 114 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: hyperbolic here. You don't really think that these franchise values 115 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: gonna double because of this? And he respondeds like, no, 116 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: I'm not being hyperbolic. I really think that the media 117 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: money will propel the values to double where they are. 118 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: So when you when your pencil and paper it, I 119 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: don't know how you get there, but hey, that's what 120 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: Mark thinks. Yeah, to use a gambling analogy, give me 121 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: the under on franchise valuations doubling. But I mean I'm 122 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: bullish on it. As we've talked about, I do think 123 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a tremendous boost to every professional franchise, 124 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: especially those in the NBA and and and NFL, because 125 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: if you look at gambling in Vegas, those are the 126 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: two sports that get a huge majority of the of 127 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 1: the handle. Uh. This is gonna lift a lot of 128 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: a lot of two tides, a lot of boats. If 129 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: you look at media, if you look at franchise valuations, 130 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: if you look at sponsorship ad spend all that everything's 131 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: gonna go up now that a few states and more 132 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: and more are going to start legalizing this. We'll see 133 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: how this whole ruling plays out for the industry. Now 134 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: time for this week's interview, Scott and Evan. I think 135 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: you can take it from here. You know, we certainly can. 136 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: And today we speak with Joe Asher. He's the CEO 137 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: of William Hills US Operations. Had that job since twelve 138 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: when William Hill acquired brandy Wine Bookmaking. That's a company 139 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: he founded. Brandy Wine was a pure startup. Asher launched 140 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: it in two thousand and eight under the brand name 141 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: Lucky's Race in sports books. That's after he relocated to 142 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: Las Vegas from New York. Asher has a long background 143 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: in the gaming industry and a lifelong passion for race 144 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: and sports betting. Joe, thanks very much for joining us. 145 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: Happy to be here. So, Joe, is there anything that's 146 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: happened this week, anything big you can think of that 147 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: we need to be talking about in your industry, anything 148 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: of note. Well, you know, I don't know if you've 149 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: got a chance to see, but the Golden Knights tied 150 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: up the series last night with a commanding victory. And 151 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: I will tell you a story that I was out 152 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: with the family for Mother's Day with some friends and 153 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: I was saying to the friend who was with it 154 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: that I wanted to bet the Golden Knights. Uh, because, 155 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: as I thought, other than the first eight minutes in 156 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: Game one, they played very well in Winnipeg, so I 157 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: wanted to bet them. But I was somewhat distractive, so 158 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: I didn't get a chance to get my bet down. 159 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: But now, should you choose, or should anybody choose, to 160 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: put a few duckets on Mr Neil and the boys? 161 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: They have an opportunity sports wagering legal in the United States. 162 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: We have heard this coming for so long. What am 163 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: I to make of it? Ever, there's so much what 164 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: do What are the takeaways? Well? Look, I think the 165 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: takeaways are first of all, that it's going to go 166 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: state by state, so it's not throughout the United States. Uh, 167 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: not what the sports league wanted. By the way, you know, 168 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: you don't always get what you want, but um, you know, 169 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: so luck historically, for certainly for the last twenty five years, 170 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: since this federal law called PASPA was enacted, sports betting 171 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: is from a legal perspective, basically been limited to the 172 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: Great State in Nevada and to a small extent Delaware, 173 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: h and everywhere else it's been in the black market, 174 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: where it's been run by illegal bookies who have had 175 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: a monopoly because there's been no legal competition. And uh 176 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: that I think it's going to start to change, uh 177 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: in in some states, you know, as soon as this 178 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: summer and before the football season, and then we'll see 179 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: what the progression is throughout the rest of the US. Keywords, 180 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: there's some states. I think your casual viewers who saw 181 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 1: the news this week may think that, Oh, in my state, 182 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be able to gamble. You know, who knows 183 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: two weeks? I heard that from New Jersey. Realistically, how 184 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 1: many states do you expect to be online heading into 185 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: the NFL season? So four months from now? Well, look 186 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: at I think it's important. Number One, people are betting 187 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: today right there, just betting illegally with their bookie and 188 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: and and they've been doing so for many years. Um. 189 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 1: Certainly in New Jersey will be ready to go within 190 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: a matter of weeks. And you know, weeks is is 191 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: somewhat indefinite, uh way of putting it. Uh. Delaware, of course, 192 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: already has the infrastructure in place because of the NFL 193 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: parley betting through the state lottery. West Virginia and Mississippi 194 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: have also passed laws, So that takes you to four 195 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 1: states in addition to Nevada pretty quickly. Beyond that, you 196 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: have states like, um, New York, which passed an earlier 197 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: piece of legislation. But I think it's expected that there 198 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: might be some additional legislation to come. Uh, Pennsylvania, which 199 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: has a law that was passed with a prohibitively high 200 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: tax rate, and we could talk about that and then 201 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure what happens in Pennsylvania as a 202 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: result of the tax structure, um, and you know other states. UM. 203 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: Timing is subject to so many things, right, the legislative 204 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: session in the particular states, the internal political dynamics of 205 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 1: those states, and so forth. But I think the fundamental 206 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: takeaway is the Supreme Court basically said, look, this is 207 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: up to the states to decide, um how to how 208 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: to deal with the issue. And uh, if New Jersey 209 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: wants to have sports betting and Utah does not, well 210 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: that's okay. And when it finally settles in a couple 211 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: of years, when all these states have decided if we 212 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: want to offer it, if we don't want to offer it, etcetera. 213 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: How much money do you think is actually I mean, 214 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: we see reports that range and tremendous amounts from a 215 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: hundred million to five million. How much money do you 216 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: think it's actually out there in the US market once 217 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: it gets itself off its feed? Yeah? Boy, I mean 218 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,319 Speaker 1: that's the that's the sixty four thou dollar question. Look, 219 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: I don't think there's names out yeah, uh, some multiples 220 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: of that perhaps, But look, I don't think there's any 221 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: doubt that the US is gonna be the biggest legal 222 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: sports betting market in the world, right, just based on 223 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: population and UH and wealth. So it's gonna be a 224 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: a really big market. You know, all these numbers that 225 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: have been um hypothesizing about the size of the illegal market, 226 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: nobody really knows, right. You know, the number that was 227 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: bantied around for many years was three hundred and eighty 228 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: billion dollars. And I saw a great um article that 229 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: somebody wrote that literally traced back the origin of that 230 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: billion dollar number. And guess where it originated. It was 231 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: just completely made up, but it survived through repetition in 232 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: UH and it became uh something that people talk about 233 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: totally through repetition, but literally if you traced it back. 234 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: A guy was asked a question at a congressional hearing 235 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: and he just sort of made up an answer off 236 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: the cuff, and so um, you know, the answer is 237 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: nobody knows. And and the reason nobody knows, of course, 238 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: is that the illegal bookies don't report their income on 239 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: their taxes UM as of course we're required to do 240 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: in Nevada and other states that regulate will have um 241 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: uh precise numbers that will be reported by by the 242 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 1: operators and new jurisdictions. We are chatting with Joe Asher, 243 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: the CEO of US operations for William Hill. You don't 244 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: just show up in the US and say, Hey, now 245 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: that it's legal, let's go. We're in business. What sort 246 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: of process, how long, how much? What's invested in William 247 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: Hill in this day becoming a reality? Looks so? So 248 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: William Hill made a made a fortuitous a series of acquisitions. Uh. 249 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: You know that there were three small companies in Nevada. 250 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: Uh in two thousand eleven. We were competing with each 251 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: other and slugging it out in a tough economy. And 252 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 1: William Hill UH came over from uh the UK where 253 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: it's a well known consumer brand in England. Uh, it's 254 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: got an eighty year history and and UH they were 255 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 1: looking to geographically diversify, and so they bought the three 256 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,959 Speaker 1: small businesses UM in Nevada. And that's how one of 257 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: those was a business that I had started. So that's 258 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: how I wound up coming to work for William Hill. 259 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: And UH those deals closed in two thousand twelve after 260 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: about a year long process for the company that licensed 261 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: by the Nevada Gaming Commission. And then those three small 262 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: businesses were rebranded as William Hill and uh, you know, 263 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: the business is just um growing pretty pretty tifficantly from 264 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: there in the six years. So when we started, we 265 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: had about twelve percent of the market share in Nevada, 266 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: and now we've got which makes us the clear number 267 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: one in the market. And it's a hotly competitive market 268 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: because you know, we compete day in and day out 269 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: with the likes of Caesar's and MGM and win uh 270 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: and and others. Station Casinos does a great job with 271 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: their sports books. So uh. Throughout that period of time, obviously, 272 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: you know, you you wind up with a good group 273 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: of people, and we've got a great team of people 274 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 1: who you don't have figured out how how to make 275 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: this business work within the regulatory structure that we face. 276 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: And and this is a unique regulatory regime, uh in 277 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: certainly in Nevada, and that will be to some extent 278 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: replicated in other places. And there was a notable investment 279 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: outside of Nevada as well. A number of years ago. Uh, 280 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: you guys settled with Monmouth Park in New Jersey. You 281 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: paid them a million dollars for the for the right 282 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: to their gambling. Moving forward, at a time when New 283 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: Jersey wasn't allowed to offer gambling. Where there are people 284 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: that thought you were crazy, is there some validation in 285 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: the fact that we now sitting here in DOZ eighteen 286 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: have this ruling. Look, I think it's yes, and yes, 287 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 1: I mean look, look I two thousand twelve, I started 288 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: reading in the press about this guy, Dennis Trays and 289 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: who was pushing to have sports betting at Mammouth Park. 290 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: And so I tracked down his telephone number and just 291 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: cold called him and introduced myself and UH made an 292 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: appointment to go and see him. Went out to Mammoth, which, 293 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: as you know, is a beautiful tractor in the racing season, 294 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: sat up in Dennis's box. He's a big racing fan, 295 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: had a horse racing that day, and I think his 296 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: horse wants so it was very auspicious um and we 297 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: got to talk. And where we wound up is we 298 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: spent It was actually a little over a million dollars 299 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: to convert an old cafeteria UH and build that out 300 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: into a sports bar, with the idea that that would 301 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: be a sports book whenever sports betting was legal at 302 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: Mammouth Park. And we had no idea if that meant 303 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: it was going to be in two thousand thirteen, two 304 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: tho two thousand five. I mean, it was just it 305 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: was a bet. Um. But we got the rights to 306 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: uh to run sports betting at Mammouth Park for the 307 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: next fifty years, and so that sort of covers my lifetime. 308 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: You get a few more years to go, but you know, 309 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: for me, that was a sufficient period of time. And uh, 310 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: you know, it was just a bet and it turned 311 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: out to uh um to be a pretty good bet. 312 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: If that contract was available right now, if Monmouth was 313 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: in the market shopping for a betting partner for fifty years, 314 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: how much do you think that would cost you to 315 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 1: get right now? Boy, I don't know. Good questions more good, 316 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: good questions, you know more, you know. But look, we're 317 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: we're partners in it, right, So we're fifty fifty partners 318 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: in it. So they're gonna get half the profits out 319 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: of the out of the venture, and obviously we're hoping 320 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: that those profits are gonna be very meaningful. Uh. The 321 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: the third bred horsemen to actually run the racetrack, and 322 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: so the profits will go to the horsemen to better 323 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: the racing product, which has been such an important part 324 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: of of New Jersey and the local economy in the area. 325 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: Now you need people to come and use your platform. 326 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: What's the landscape like you mentioned MGM, you mentioned when 327 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: that we've got DraftKings, You've got a lot of players 328 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: now fighting for the same customers. What's that battle look like? 329 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 1: How do you make them come to William Hill. Look, 330 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: I think it's fundamentally similar to what we do in Nevada, 331 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 1: where you know, we operate a hotly competitive market today 332 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: and you know, we try to offer a really good 333 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,239 Speaker 1: product to our customers, very good mobile app um. In 334 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: play betting we have by far the deepest um in 335 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: play product. We're now up to people who don't know 336 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 1: what that is? In play? Can can you just say 337 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: what it is? And what sorts of bets on, what 338 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: social sports, what's available? What can I do? Sure? So? 339 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: In play basically means betting after the games started, something 340 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: that's been very popular in Europe for a number of years, 341 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: relatively new to the United States. And what really people 342 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 1: are betting on in play is who's going to win 343 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: the game, the point spread, the total, whether it's a 344 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: total point, total goals, depending on the sport, uh and 345 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: and that's really what people bet on now things like tennis. 346 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: You can bet game by game and set by set, 347 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 1: which is quite popular tennis. Believe it is big in 348 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: play sport. You know what the biggest in play sport 349 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: is in in the US? For William Hill, Major League 350 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: base would say baseball. Saw Mark Cuban said, oh, it'll 351 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: finally be fun to go to a baseball game again. 352 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: I know he's taking a shot at the league where 353 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: he's not an owner and tried to get the pirates. 354 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: But is it true that you've seen engagement fan engagement 355 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 1: sores when folks are on their mobile app and play well, look, 356 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: I mean baseball is a great example within play, right, 357 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: you've got a three hour game? Three hours? What speedy 358 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: game are you watching? And you know exactly. But but 359 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: with what people bet a lot on on an in 360 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: play baseball is will a run be scored in this inning? Yes? 361 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: Or no? So will there be a run scored in 362 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: the first inning? Willy'll be a run scored in the 363 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: second if there's a lead off double, The odds come down. Yeah, 364 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: the the odds um consistently change. They go up when 365 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 1: there's two outs and two strikes and so forth, and 366 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: um you know, we'll have guys better thousand bucks than 367 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: any And what they're doing is they're taking you know, 368 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: ballpark three hour game and you know, trimming it down 369 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: to a twenty minute game. And and so it's it 370 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: engages them. And you know, when when the outcome of 371 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: the game is probably already decided, right it's I don't know, 372 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: seven and nothing in the eighth inning, people will still bet. 373 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: So sports leagues are used to that's when customers either 374 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: shut off the TV or tell their kids, come on, 375 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: let's beat the traffic. But now there's a reason to stay. 376 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 1: Now there's reasons to stay, whether it's total runs that 377 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: you're betting or or what have you. So it keeps 378 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,200 Speaker 1: people engaged, keeps them engaged longer, It makes the makes 379 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: the experience more enjoyable. I mean, I get these reports, 380 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: um every day, and and they're probably you know, four 381 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: or five that I read pretty religiously and um and 382 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 1: one of the things you see, uh for in play 383 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: is just the sheer number of people were just betting 384 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: two dollars five dollars just to have a little bit 385 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 1: of action. They're watching something on TV, so they might 386 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: as well have a few dollars on it and and 387 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: and you know in Nevada that's all very um widespread 388 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: sports bettings out in the open. It's culturally accepted. And 389 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: and you know, people from across the professions and socio 390 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: economic spectrum. Uh, you know, they meet in the sports 391 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: book that they bet and it. It really does cross 392 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: all kinds of different lines. And it's really just to 393 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: have a little bit more reason, uh to watch the 394 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: game and have something to root for. We're speaking live 395 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: in studio with Joe Asher, CEO of US operations for 396 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: William Hill. Joe, once the celebrations over, how do you 397 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: how does William Hill look at individual states? It's your 398 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: opportunity in let's say Mississippi or Missouri or West Virginia 399 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 1: states where you don't have a huge presence right now. Yeah, no, look, 400 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,719 Speaker 1: I I had you know, my original the original statement 401 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: we put out that they made me take it out. 402 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: But I said, we're gonna have an epic celebration, and 403 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: you know, they made me take that out. But it's 404 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: okay because we did have a you know, we had 405 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: a well deserved party for what you do? Where'd you go? 406 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,119 Speaker 1: Who was there? Uh? You know, it was it was 407 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: for for all the folks who were who worked for 408 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: William Hill and were available and they could bring a guest. 409 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: And it was at the SLS Casino on the Las 410 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,879 Speaker 1: Vegas Strip and the Sarah's Club, great great venue. We 411 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: had a local musician who we think is great. She 412 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: came out. Her name is Kara Brown and she was 413 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: performing and we just had a great time. You know, 414 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: real question. Top shelf open bar. It was a top 415 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: shelf open bar. Okay, that's a real celebration, you know, 416 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: it was. It was, you know, and look, I finally 417 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: bailed out when it was getting you know, pretty late, 418 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: because I knew I had an early morning to get up. 419 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:55,959 Speaker 1: So I got about an hour of sleep. I got, 420 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: you know, probably another half hour on the on the 421 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: plane right out to New York. But you know, that's okay. 422 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: There'll be plenty of time to sleep but when I'm dead. 423 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: So you know, right now, we got a lot to do. 424 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: And that answers another question. There are some people have 425 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: said that a more legalized nationwide framework might affect business 426 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: in Las Vegas. You know that the monopoly on sports 427 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: betting no longer contained to Nevada. I assume since the 428 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: celebration is happening out there there. You you don't have 429 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: those concerns necessarily now, not at all. I mean people 430 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: said that the spread of casinos to other states is 431 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: going to be the death knell of Las Vegas. And obviously, 432 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, Las Vegas is bigger, better, stronger than ever, 433 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: more vibrant than ever. It's a great place to live, 434 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: by the way, it's a wonderful place to visit. So 435 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,240 Speaker 1: I hope everybody comes out for a visit um and 436 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: and looks sports betting um is already going on, right, 437 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: so it's not like this activity is not happening now. 438 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: People are still going to come out to Vegas for 439 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: March Madness, They're still going to come out for the 440 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: Super Bowl and other big events. So, uh, from is 441 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: it a good for Las Vegas perspective, I think it's 442 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: great because you know, look, my general operating philosophy since 443 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: I've been in the industry has been what's good for 444 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: the big casino operators in Nevada is good for William 445 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: Hill and and so folks like MGM Caesar's uh and 446 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: others who will be able to offer sports books and 447 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: other jurisdictions Eldorado Resorts, Penn National Boyd and so forth. Uh, 448 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: you know that's gonna be good for them, makes it 449 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: good for Nevada, It will be good for Las Vegas. 450 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: It will also be good for the folks who work 451 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: in the industry whose talents um are gonna be um 452 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: necessary as as the industry seeks to expand. We are 453 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: chatting with Joe aysher CEO of US operations for William Hill. 454 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: And I know this is tangential to what you do, 455 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: but we did speak with a couple of sports owners yesterday. 456 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: Ted Leons is being one of them, and he is 457 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: convinced that the media part of all this is where 458 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: the real money lies for the US sports leagues, for 459 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: the owners, for the evaluations of their franchises, that the 460 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: media opportunity is where this money is coming. Have you 461 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: seen that globally? And what would you say to the 462 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: US leagues and the owners who seem to be taking 463 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: a cautious approach And all I've heard so far as integrity, integrity, integrity, Yeah, 464 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,360 Speaker 1: and and and look um to the extent you're talking 465 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: about integrity. Um. Of course, the integrity has to be 466 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 1: better and amplified in the legal, transparent, regulated market than 467 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 1: what exists today. So this idea that somehow there's an 468 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: increased threat to integrity of sports is just silly. It's 469 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: not reality. And and so the integrity tax, that's just 470 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a fancy name for a cut 471 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: of the action. But that's what it is, right, You're 472 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: you're saying that, you know, it's just a cut of 473 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: the action. But but look, my response to that is 474 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: there's plenty of money in this for the sports leagues, 475 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: for the teams. They are the biggest beneficiaries of this. 476 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I read what Mark Cubans said 477 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: about the the franchise values doubling as a result of 478 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: gloss said Mark an email. I said, Mark, were you 479 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: being hyperbolic? And he came right back and said, no, 480 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: this is not hyperbole. He believes that whether it's the media, 481 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: whether the engagement targeted at whatever, that this will offer 482 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: that kind of bump the franchise values. Well so, so, 483 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: and here here's a key point. You look at what's 484 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: the most valuable sports league in the world, it's probably 485 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: the English PREMIERAU. Incredibly iconic franchises, right Manchester, And I 486 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: didn't I get Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Tottenham and 487 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: so on. And and the way the the ecosystem works 488 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: there is that there is no statutorily mandated integrity tax 489 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: or any type of statutorily mandated payments to the teams 490 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: or to the e PL. But what do you have. 491 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: You have about half the team's actually sponsored by betting 492 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: companies UH and you have UM the betting companies spending 493 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: lots of money on advertising and marketing UH to to 494 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: market their products, which leads to enhanced engagement in the 495 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: games because people are watching the games, and the betting 496 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: companies are promoting the games through their advertising, which leads 497 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: to higher viewership, higher rights fees. And it's this virtuous UM. 498 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: It's this virtuous circle. The biggest loser if if they 499 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: if they actually got the integrity tax on UH and 500 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,199 Speaker 1: and you know, as you know, initially they came out 501 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: and they were seeking one percent. Sounds like a small number, 502 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,719 Speaker 1: but it's actually one percent of handle, which translates into revenue, right, 503 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: I mean, that's like real money. There's some slim margins here, 504 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: We're not we're talking yeah, marginal five percent. And then 505 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: they had this idea that somehow the Nevada sports books 506 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: were trying to run at a low margin and weren't 507 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: really trying to be profitable, which was just like kind 508 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: of silly to anybody has ever been involved in it, um. 509 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: But be that as it may. I think now the 510 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: latest talk has been around a quarter point integrity tax, 511 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: which is still five percent of revenue. But who's the 512 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: biggest losers if they actually got that on. It would 513 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 1: be the media companies, because what's the one controllable expense 514 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: that that sports betting operators have. It's your marketing budget, right. 515 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: You got your compliance costs, you got your bookmaker risk 516 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: management costs, you got your finance people, you got your 517 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 1: frontline employees, you got your technology costs. Those are largely 518 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: fixed costs. The one controllable expense is marketing. And so 519 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: if you've got to turn of your profits straight over 520 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: to the sports leaks, well that's less you got to 521 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: spend with Bloomberg, with the ESPN, with Fox, with anybody. 522 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: And so if they ever got this integrity tax on, 523 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 1: it would be a disaster for the media companies. Those 524 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: of us who lived through the Fandel Draft kings wars 525 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: would say those marketing costs maybe uncontrollable because they didn't stop. 526 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: And you know what they made It was pretty Look, 527 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: it was pretty tough to watch ESPN and some of 528 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: the other networks in September two thousand and fifteen. They 529 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: took the money. They took they took the money, and 530 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, UM ultimately did not prove to be money 531 00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: well spent based on on on where it was at 532 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: that time. And you know, but look, that's a whole 533 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: separate episode we could have about, you know, all the 534 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: efforts of we're not gambling, we're not gambling. We're not 535 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 1: gambling too, We're gonna be a sports book in New Jersey, 536 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: now right, I mean, you know, give me a break. 537 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: But look, you know, we'll see how it all shakes out. 538 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: Are there things that you have not been able to 539 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: invest in knowing that your clientele was essentially just in Vegas, 540 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: that that maybe you'll be able to do now that 541 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: you know New Jersey's on board, Delawares on board, there 542 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: will be more and more states and more money. Look, 543 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: I think you know what, Evan, The biggest issue is 544 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: is going to be UM getting people, getting the people 545 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: who have the background, the experience, the skills that we 546 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: need UH to to ramp up the business in disparate location. 547 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: To write, one of the advantages we have UH in 548 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: Nevada is we're you know, we have people in the 549 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 1: field and then we have people UM in the office 550 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: and it's you know, it's um situation where folks are 551 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: mostly together. Now you know, you're looking at an operation 552 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: in New Jersey and Mississippi and UH and other places, 553 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: and so you know, those those are the types of 554 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: things that that we start to think about as we 555 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,480 Speaker 1: look to scale up the business. And you know, look, 556 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: this is such a heavily regulated business. The need to 557 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: do it with people who understand how to operate UH 558 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 1: in the regulatory environment that we're used to in Nevada 559 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: is is something that's really important for us. All Right. 560 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: That's Joe esh Or, the CEO of US operations for 561 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: William Hill. Joe, thank you very much for joining us, 562 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: my pleasure, thanks for having me. It's time for takeaways, Evan, 563 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,239 Speaker 1: your takeaway from Joe Esher. Yeah, this is a guy 564 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: who spent the last six years of his life trying 565 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to get sports gambling in 566 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: states outside of Nevada, and he's finally succeeded, and the 567 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: fruits of that labor is a New Jersey marketplace that 568 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: he likely to dominate. Right off the bat, we talked 569 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: about that investment at Monmouth Park a million dollars. You 570 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: know that that those rights would be worth so much 571 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: more right now if they were being negotiated, But he 572 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: hasn't for the next fifty years. And at some point 573 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 1: in the next month or so, New Jersey is gonna 574 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: come online and the first bets being taken are going 575 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: to be at that place in Monmouth Park. My takeaway 576 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: is how little everybody seems to know. These are smart 577 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: people who have had a lot of time to prepare. 578 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: We seemingly known this day was coming, and yet oh no, 579 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: now it's state by state they want federal regulation. People 580 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: just really don't know what to expect, how to proceed, 581 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: where it's going to happen, how it's gonna happen, where 582 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: do we lobby, who do we talk to. There's still 583 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: so much confusion, and yet amid all that uncertainty, this 584 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: is gonna happen. There's gonna be a betting window in 585 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: montin Mith very soon, and the dollars will start flowing 586 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: feet to be number one than number five. Where the 587 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: number because we have a chance to go for three 588 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 1: in a row. Numbers are a good time. When I 589 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: first started wearing the number, I would just have you 590 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: Floomberg Business of Sports, the number of the week, and 591 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: this week evan number twenty three, and I steer you 592 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: towards Chicago. I actually know this one because we just 593 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: talked about it. Number twenty three, the number that Michael 594 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: Jordan wore for the majority of his career. ESPN when 595 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: it was announcing kind of what the next year looks 596 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: like for the network announced that they are doing a 597 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: ten part series up Fronts. Up Fronts for for people 598 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: in the industry, ten part series on Michael Jordan's documentary style. 599 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,239 Speaker 1: I think this is a slam dunk. Michael Jordan's one 600 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: of those two you went with went with slam pun 601 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: and I think it's I think it's a grand slant. 602 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: He played baseball too, Yeah, but he didn't take grandstands. Uh. 603 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: This is a guy, obviously who spans a lot of 604 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: different generations. The success that ESPN had with its O 605 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: J documentary last year, maybe two years ago, at this point, 606 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: UH want some awards with it. This is clearly a 607 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: play for ESPN launching off of their two They want 608 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: exactly ESPN plus, they want more content that's not just 609 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: live uh, and doing a series on Michael Jordan's seems 610 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: like the easiest way to attract. Do you like the 611 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: dichotomy though, that this is for the younger people who 612 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: kind of cord cutting watch this way, who probably never 613 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: saw Michael and some might not even know he was 614 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: a player. Do you see these stories all the time 615 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:26,959 Speaker 1: of people who are asking Michael Jordan, O, the guy 616 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: that owns the Charlotte Hornets, did you ever play right? Well, 617 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: we've been listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports. We are 618 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:35,960 Speaker 1: here each and every week at the same time, exploring 619 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: the world of money in sports. I'm Scott and I'm 620 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: Evan Novie Williams. Thanks for joining us. Please tune in 621 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: next week when we speak with lacrosse is first millionaire 622 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: Paul Rabel, a man whose talents on the lacrosse field 623 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: and his business savvy off is building quite a brand 624 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,239 Speaker 1: for himself. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports from 625 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio around the world and online as an Apple 626 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: podcast on