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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh

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Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and there's Jerry over there, and I

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Speaker 1: just want to say this is stuff you should know,

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Speaker 1: the Chuck's Birthday edition. Birthday Chuck, Thank you, thank you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So back to it. Yeah, we got a I got

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Speaker 1: approval from Josh to do a special front loaded listener mail.

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Speaker 1: I'm a little tense about this. I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna lie. Really, you were like, it's his birthday, I

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Speaker 1: gotta do it. Yeah, I had to give in. Uh

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Speaker 1: for those of who don't know the end of the podcast,

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Speaker 1: some people just switch it off when you start your

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Speaker 1: little uh dobbledygook at the end. But we read mail

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Speaker 1: from listeners which can be informative and instructive and fun

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Speaker 1: and heartwarming and say ad and they're really good. So

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Speaker 1: you've been missing out if you don't listen through to those.

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Speaker 1: But I'm gonna do want to hear at the front

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Speaker 1: because this just came in as sheer coincidence that it

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Speaker 1: happened to dovetail with today's topic. So while Alex lash

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Speaker 1: Here of New Zealand did not suggest this uh topics

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Speaker 1: such that we took the suggestion we are already doing it.

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Speaker 1: You sounded like a mobster trying to stuff So here

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Speaker 1: we go from Alex. Hey, guys, following up on the

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Speaker 1: National Park app, I like to suggest you complete the

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Speaker 1: trifecta and do dark sky reserves and marine reserves. I'm

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Speaker 1: from New Zealand. My dad played a part in the

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Speaker 1: formation of our own dark Sky reserve in the McKenzie Basin.

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Speaker 1: There's a joint effort between the local uh Maori eui.

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Speaker 1: I'm probably just mispronouncing everything. Uh Takapo tourism, which is

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Speaker 1: the town in the University of Canterbury who ran the

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Speaker 1: Mount John of Erbitory in the area. My dad was

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Speaker 1: head of physics and astronomy at the university at the time.

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Speaker 1: It is a truly life altering experience to look up

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Speaker 1: and see a skylit brilliant by the Milky Way with

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Speaker 1: no light pollution and into Capo you can do a

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Speaker 1: tour uh to look through some of the telescopes for

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Speaker 1: a better view. And this from Alex lash And he's

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Speaker 1: attached a picture of a of a photo that his

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Speaker 1: friend took of the night sky with the observatory in

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Speaker 1: the foreground, and he was like, there is no special cameras,

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Speaker 1: just mounted on a tripod to lead that exposure open

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Speaker 1: for a long time. And brother, it is. You should

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Speaker 1: check out this email from Alex. It is unbelievably gorgeous

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Speaker 1: and we forget what is up there in the sky

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Speaker 1: when you live in in most places in the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean they say that in the US and Europe,

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Speaker 1: nine percent of us live in light polluted skies that

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Speaker 1: are so light polluted that we can't see like the

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Speaker 1: Milky Way, you just can't see it. It's there, we

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Speaker 1: just can't see it because of all the light that

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Speaker 1: we put out. And so yeah, so that is an

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Speaker 1: amazing photo. So to see something like that in person,

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Speaker 1: it really kind of and to realize that it's out there,

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Speaker 1: it makes you kind of sad. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: it makes me very determined to go somewhere and see. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: I've been looking around. There's not a lot of places

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Speaker 1: that I want to go anyway, So it's gonna have

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Speaker 1: to be a special trip, you know what I'm saying. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it is. You know, occasionally when I have gotten

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Speaker 1: out to the desert or out in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the ocean on the one cruise ship I went on,

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Speaker 1: and you see those stars, it is a reminders like

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Speaker 1: those things are always up there, and so we get

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Speaker 1: to see so little of that in the city. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're lucky if you get a smattering of

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Speaker 1: stars if you live near a city on any given night. Yeah. No,

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Speaker 1: it's definitely true. And like skyglow in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: If you don't stop and think about what it is,

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Speaker 1: it can be kind of beautiful in a weird way.

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Speaker 1: It makes you feel like you're alive and connected to

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Speaker 1: everybody who's alive in that city, right then, weirdly, or

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Speaker 1: does for me, I should say. But but when you

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Speaker 1: but when you do stop and think about what it is,

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Speaker 1: it can make you pretty sad. And then when you

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Speaker 1: do see something like you get like it's just a

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Speaker 1: taste of what the night sky is supposed to look like,

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Speaker 1: like chuck in a truly like dark night, like a

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Speaker 1: night sky that isn't polluted with light, Like Venus and

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Speaker 1: Jupiter are so bright they can make you cast a shadow,

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Speaker 1: that's how bright they get. The Milky Way does too,

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Speaker 1: like you can cast a shadow from Venus and Jupiter.

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Speaker 1: It's just mind boggling to think of you can't even

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Speaker 1: see Jupiter. Maybe you see Venus, like if you're lucky

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Speaker 1: around a city, But like you said, smattering of stars

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Speaker 1: and some skyglow is basically what you get. So I

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Speaker 1: think the thing that really kind of makes me feel like, man,

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Speaker 1: we were so close. It was up until even like

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Speaker 1: sixties seventy hundred years ago, like you didn't have to

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Speaker 1: very far from a place like Atlanta or New York

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Speaker 1: or Boston or you know, wherever any city to to

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Speaker 1: go find something like this, like maybe just drive out

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Speaker 1: beyond the city limits are here or there. Um. But

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Speaker 1: today we've been increasing our artificial lighting even faster than

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Speaker 1: our pollute. Our population has been growing, and so it's

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Speaker 1: gotten to this point now where we've lost a lot.

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Speaker 1: And there's some people saying, hey, not only are we

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Speaker 1: losing stuff, we're actually gaining all sorts of negativity too

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Speaker 1: that we need to start addressing. And that is the

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Speaker 1: upshod of light pollution. It really does stand as a

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Speaker 1: type of pollution when you dig into it. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: this is one where we're gonna you know, arm you

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Speaker 1: with some information, maybe gently remind you about some best

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Speaker 1: practices without trying to be to preachy about what you

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Speaker 1: do at your own home. But you know, it's not

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Speaker 1: just skyscrapers and and big city stuff. It's the individual

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Speaker 1: humans home that as far too much light pointing up

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Speaker 1: at the sky these days, and it all adds up,

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Speaker 1: it does, and um, a significant portion of it is wasted.

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Speaker 1: If you start looking at um light pollution. Uh. I

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Speaker 1: guess warning people, right, yeah. Uh, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: start hanging out with that crowd, you'll find that they

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Speaker 1: also very frequently say, hey, you can save a lot

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Speaker 1: of fossil fuel emissions and a lot of money on

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Speaker 1: electricity if you just use sensible lighting that doesn't pollute. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about the history of it a little bit, because,

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Speaker 1: like I was saying, it's not a very old problem

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Speaker 1: that we faced, but it's really kind of grown by

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Speaker 1: leaps and bounds in recent years. Yeah, and big thanks

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Speaker 1: to Olivia for help with this one. I think this

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Speaker 1: is kind of right up her alley. Uh. She points

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Speaker 1: out that, you know, astronomers obviously were some of the

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Speaker 1: very first people to say, hey, we've got a problem

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Speaker 1: going on, and this was in the late nineteenth century.

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Speaker 1: There was an astronomer name Givon, Yeah, who talked about

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Speaker 1: cold smoke a problem and of itself and quote the

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Speaker 1: abuse of electric lights end quote, that we're basically wrecking

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Speaker 1: uh Giovanni's view from uh the observatory in Italy there

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Speaker 1: at Brera. I guess in Brera, but the Brera Astronomical

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Speaker 1: Observatory it's in Milan actually so. But the problem was

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Speaker 1: that Sappiarelli was too cool to take his sunglasses off,

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Speaker 1: so he was not exactly like um, a reporter you

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Speaker 1: could rely on unreliable narrator in Gucci sunglasses. Yeah, I've noticed,

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Speaker 1: like I've I've gotten to this weird point in my life, chuck,

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Speaker 1: where rather than use the word I'm looking for, I

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Speaker 1: use five different words that are clumsily strung together that

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Speaker 1: kind of get across what I'm trying to say. You've

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Speaker 1: gotten to this point, Okay, I feel like it's stepped up,

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Speaker 1: all right. Yeah, I need a little more perspective on

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Speaker 1: myself to be thinking about how I be. No, don't.

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Speaker 1: You don't need to think about that anymore than you

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Speaker 1: already do. Okay, So, uh astronomers were among the first.

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Speaker 1: They were also authors Olivia points out there was a

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Speaker 1: naturalist and author named Henry Beston who was a great quote,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of sad. Uh, there's a night mind you

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Speaker 1: with lights and ever more lights, we drive the holiness

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Speaker 1: of night back to the forest in the sea. Today's

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Speaker 1: civilization is full of people who have not the slightest

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Speaker 1: notion of the character or the poetry of night, who

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Speaker 1: have never even seen night. Yeah, we take those people

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Speaker 1: out and in the night think what was there? Who's that?

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Speaker 1: Who's there? Where's my flashlight? So things really kind of

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Speaker 1: got going like like people people were aware, like there's

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Speaker 1: there's all sorts of light pollution going on. Um, all

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Speaker 1: you have to do is try to get some sleep

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Speaker 1: in a in a city where there's tons of lights

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Speaker 1: on to under stand light pollution and have it affect you.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like people didn't realize there were issues

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Speaker 1: with overuse of artificial lights along the way, but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until the fifties that anybody actually started to do

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Speaker 1: something about it, which, if you stop and think about it,

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Speaker 1: if if really we started to run into this problem

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Speaker 1: around the beginning of the twentieth century. Less than half

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Speaker 1: a century later, UM, people were already moving to address it.

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Speaker 1: And the whole thing started in Arizona thanks to a

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Speaker 1: richie rich astronomer Personval Lowell, who had built um an observatory,

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Speaker 1: great Lowell Observatory out there, um near was it flag Staff,

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Speaker 1: I believe, and the Grand Canyon. Yeah, and um it

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Speaker 1: was a great space at the time when he built

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Speaker 1: it in four But by the time I think that

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifties rolled around, when they were looking to expand

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Speaker 1: their like, already, Flagstaff is just too bright for our telescope.

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Speaker 1: What are we going to do well? And they said,

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Speaker 1: and this is what all observatories. Basically he had to

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Speaker 1: do was move out even further. So they moved out

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Speaker 1: about twelve miles southeast of the city. But then even

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Speaker 1: then they were like, you know, at some point this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be a problem as well because of the

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Speaker 1: way that humans just expand their footprint with suburbs and

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Speaker 1: ex serbs, and so let's actually do something about it.

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Speaker 1: And so the Flagstaff City Council is a sort of

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Speaker 1: one of the first measures in the United States on

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Speaker 1: light pollution banned the searchlights. When you grew up in

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Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties, you remember this you don't see

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Speaker 1: you don't see him anymore, which I guess this is

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Speaker 1: why I've seen it as recently in the last like

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Speaker 1: ten or fifteen years. Oh really, I have seen one

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Speaker 1: in and I didn't even remember them until this article.

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Speaker 1: But uh, when a big business would open up, or

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Speaker 1: just any business that could afford dire spotlights, they would

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Speaker 1: have these searchlights, spotlights like these bat signals, just kind

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Speaker 1: of flowing back and forth in the night sky, and

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Speaker 1: I get you know. The idea was you would just say,

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Speaker 1: what's that light? Yeah, drive, I need to drive toward it.

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Speaker 1: I got nothing else to do. I need to find

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Speaker 1: out if there's a new Aaron rent exactly exactly. And

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Speaker 1: people do that, I guess because they used them. I mean,

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Speaker 1: those search lights weren't cheap to rent, I would imagine,

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Speaker 1: so they must have been effective if people use them

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Speaker 1: for that long. I remember those all the time when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, and Flagstaff City Council said, at

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Speaker 1: the very least, no more of those dumb things. They're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's exciting, true, but it's it's wrecking Percival Lull's telescope.

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Speaker 1: So they actually, yeah, they were the first city in

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Speaker 1: the country and maybe even in the world to pass

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Speaker 1: something that protected dark skies, and that kind of set

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Speaker 1: like the tone for the Flagstaff and Tucsign area, which

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Speaker 1: I can't remember if they're even remotely close to one another. Um,

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Speaker 1: super close. Now, our good friend Blair Bunting actually uh,

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Speaker 1: I think they live in Flagstaff now, so he's probably

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Speaker 1: gonna send us an e disabusing me of any notion

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Speaker 1: that flag Staff and Tucson are anywhere near each other.

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Speaker 1: But the I guess Tucson copied Flagstaff maybe and started

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, we should protect our dark skies too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think it was just sort of in the air

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Speaker 1: in Arizona. And in the early nineteen seventies Tucson pass

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Speaker 1: some laws that said, hey, all these lights that are

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Speaker 1: pointing upward, let's just point those down at least. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And then over the next few decades they moved like

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Speaker 1: two different kinds of lights that were a little softer

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Speaker 1: on the visual spectrum, not as bright. One of the

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Speaker 1: big problems we'll talk about later is all the blue

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Speaker 1: light these days from led s and electronics and things

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Speaker 1: like that. But um, do you have the blue light?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, are you? Are you trying to get

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Speaker 1: better sleep, and like not looking at your phone before bed.

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Speaker 1: I've got that um that night shift thing on where

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Speaker 1: like from sunrise to sunset it's um or suns set

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Speaker 1: to sunrise, it's like a yellow it's like yellow stuff

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Speaker 1: automatically it does that. Yeah, and I don't. I try

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Speaker 1: to read books more at night too. I think it's

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Speaker 1: but it's more just like the light bulbs, those light fixtures,

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Speaker 1: I don't care what time of day it is. They

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Speaker 1: just look like you've made the decision to to do

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Speaker 1: everything you can to drive yourself insane. So you're you're

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Speaker 1: going with the blue light led eds. Well you should

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Speaker 1: avoid those, right, I think so, Yeah, I don't have

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Speaker 1: them in my house. Good for you, Chuck. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's one of those things like l E d s

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Speaker 1: are great because they last a long long time, but

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Speaker 1: they make different kinds of l D s now, so

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Speaker 1: you don't have to have those blue light ones. So

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Speaker 1: there's this group called the International Dark Sky Association. They

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Speaker 1: were founded in night by somebody who was part of

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Speaker 1: that push and I think Tucson and start protecting the

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Speaker 1: dark skies. They are big time into saying like hey guys,

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Speaker 1: we need to figure out some something else. But aside

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Speaker 1: from these blue A blenk l Eds that are really

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Speaker 1: not good, we'll really just stop all over blue light

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Speaker 1: l e d S whenever we get a chance later

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Speaker 1: in the episode. But the point is is the International

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Speaker 1: Dark Sky Association has been introduced now and they are

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Speaker 1: responsible for Alex Lash's favorite thing, certifying dark sky places

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Speaker 1: around the world. Actually I think there's a hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventy of them. Yeah, like dark sky sanctuaries. Basically, UH,

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Speaker 1: if you do the right thing. If if this is

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Speaker 1: your goal and you do the right thing, some people

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Speaker 1: might say it's the wrong thing. Um, you can get

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Speaker 1: certified places in I believe, um, Minnesota. I think there's

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Speaker 1: a park in Maine the UH caught it in Woods

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Speaker 1: and Waters National Monument and Maine. UH Cosmic Campground in

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Speaker 1: New Mexico one that is I don't think on the list.

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Speaker 1: But I had a dark sky experience at Sapolo Island,

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Speaker 1: Georgia a few years ago. Uh. This is when I

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Speaker 1: was at the very misguided notion that I was going

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Speaker 1: to try and direct a little independent movie. And we

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Speaker 1: a couple of friends of mine and I went down

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Speaker 1: there to scout Sapollo Island, which is one of the

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Speaker 1: Barrier islands of Georgia that is virtually uninhabited that there's

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Speaker 1: still some of the original gichi Uh people that lived there,

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Speaker 1: but it's like there's no electricity. So the guy that

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Speaker 1: showed us to our place was like, take your flashlights

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Speaker 1: at night because there are no street lights. There are

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Speaker 1: very few people and it is dark. And we got

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Speaker 1: this little golf cart to ride out to the lighthouse

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Speaker 1: and original golf cart it was pretty original. Um, but

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Speaker 1: we got out on the little road, the dirt road

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Speaker 1: and turn the lights off, and man, it was unsettlingly dark.

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Speaker 1: You could you literally could not see your hand in

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Speaker 1: front of your face. Oh really, I was gonna ask

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Speaker 1: you if your eyes acclimated to the dark so that

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Speaker 1: you could see better than you thought you could eventually,

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Speaker 1: but this is like when we first switched them off,

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Speaker 1: and you just forget about just street lights and just

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Speaker 1: people and all the light that comes in. So it

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Speaker 1: was saw the best guy there I've seen in a

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Speaker 1: long time. And um, it's just weird when you're in

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Speaker 1: a place that's super dark. Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: because you're not used to it. You're a city slicker.

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Speaker 1: I'm a city slicker. So um, that's pretty much brings

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Speaker 1: us up to where we are now in history. As

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Speaker 1: far as light pollution goes, it's a big old problem.

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Speaker 1: There's some people at the fringes of this starting to

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Speaker 1: try to get everybody else on board, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: kind of dive into what actually makes light pollution. After

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Speaker 1: a break, let's do it a birthday break. Oh okay,

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Speaker 1: and we're back and it's still Chuck's birthday. Happy birthday again,

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Speaker 1: Chuck fifty one. It's a weird number. Yeah, but if

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Speaker 1: you add them together at equals six and six is

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Speaker 1: perfectly fine. All right. So my daughter's age comes full circle.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I took her to her first pro

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Speaker 1: sporting event last night. Went to a Hawks game. Oh wow,

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Speaker 1: what do you think? It was interesting? I mean, I

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Speaker 1: knew we would have to leave it like halftime just

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Speaker 1: because of bedtime. But she made it through the half,

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Speaker 1: got a little squirmy. But you know NBA games, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of extra fun stuff going on. Fire cannons. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they had dogs catching frisbees and T shirt cannons and

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Speaker 1: all that. Yeah. On the court, it was great. Uh So, anyway,

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Speaker 1: light pollution, I guess we should talk about the four

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Speaker 1: main kinds, right, and I have bigger problems with some

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Speaker 1: of these than others. Yeah, So the idea, the International

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Speaker 1: Dark Skies Association UM has basically identified four types. The

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Speaker 1: first one is glare, and that is basically like, if

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Speaker 1: you look up at a street light, yeum, the that

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Speaker 1: light is going to basically hurt your eyes. You're looking,

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Speaker 1: You're you're being hit with glare from the street light.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's a kind of light pollution. It makes sense. Um.

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Speaker 1: The the reason that that's light pollution is ideally, you

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Speaker 1: should have to be standing directly under that the light

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Speaker 1: fixture of the street light and look up for the

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Speaker 1: for that glare to happen. That's just not the case.

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Speaker 1: You can be half a mile away and look at

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Speaker 1: a street light from the side and you're still going

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Speaker 1: to get hit with that same glare. That's why it's

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Speaker 1: a problem. That's what makes it light pollution. Right. The

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Speaker 1: second one is want to have a big problem with

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Speaker 1: is a light trespass. And this is when you have

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Speaker 1: a neighbor or somebody that has a floodlight like pointed

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Speaker 1: in your bedroom window and sometimes they just keep it on.

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Speaker 1: Um that's not the case with my current neighbor. Just

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Speaker 1: to be clear, I don't think he listens, but he's

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Speaker 1: he's pretty good. He like I do, have the motion

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Speaker 1: sensor floodlights that only pop on when something is moving.

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Speaker 1: But be aware of the light that you cast from

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Speaker 1: your home. Is is all I'm that's is preachees I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get. I just realized two days ago that the

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Speaker 1: old front security light replaced all the rest of them

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Speaker 1: with those motion detector ones. But the one I've left

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Speaker 1: so far, um, the it's it's very old, like the

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Speaker 1: the on offs which is actually like rusted in place.

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Speaker 1: It's been on all day and all night like, and

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Speaker 1: it has been shining at my neighbor's house luckily, Luckily,

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Speaker 1: I think their bedroom is on the other side and

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Speaker 1: they're also there. They're very friendly. Um, they would say

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Speaker 1: something if there was an issue. Um in very friendly.

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Speaker 1: Man are very friendly people. But I just realized it.

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Speaker 1: So now I ordered like a replacement light and had

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Speaker 1: to turn all my lights off because that one is

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Speaker 1: just sitting there, sitting on It's crazy. And also when

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Speaker 1: I think about the electricity, it's wasting during the day.

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Speaker 1: It's like, come on, don't be so stupid, you stupid light. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There's called clutter, which is um. I mean, it's described

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Speaker 1: by Olivia as bright, confusing, or excessive groups of lights. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I looked into that. What does confusing mean confusing is that, UM,

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Speaker 1: we have something called contrast illumination that we use for

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Speaker 1: night vision. So a light that looks um less bright

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Speaker 1: than another light is going to be further away. With

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Speaker 1: artificial light, that's not necessarily the case. You could have

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Speaker 1: like a porch light that's even brighter than a street

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Speaker 1: light that's further away, and it's going to confuse our

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Speaker 1: eyes and mess up our night vision. And then also

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Speaker 1: I have the impression that just having a big smattering

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Speaker 1: of individual lights across the landscape at night is is

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Speaker 1: clutter as well. But I think the problem is it

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Speaker 1: really messes with your night vision. Yeah, we do have

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Speaker 1: a porch light. To be clear, I'm not advocating for

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Speaker 1: like total darkness of your home, but we leave the

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Speaker 1: porch light on at night. Uh, like Tombodette says to do.

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Speaker 1: And that's it. You got a Motel six now at

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Speaker 1: your house. I live in the management office. It's quite

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Speaker 1: nice and comfortable. It's affordable. Yeah, it's your side hustle.

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Speaker 1: Then you've got skyglow, which is I think everyone kind

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Speaker 1: of knows what this is. This these are just the

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Speaker 1: culmination of city lights. And if you've ever driven into

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Speaker 1: Las Vegas from the desert, you see that skyglow from

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Speaker 1: a long ways away. It's just sort of a big

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Speaker 1: glowing dome in the distance. And that one seems to

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Speaker 1: be a problem that's not just from light pollution, but

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Speaker 1: also air pollution too, because you can you can see

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Speaker 1: skyglow just fine on a cloudless night and it's reflecting

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Speaker 1: actually off of all the particles in the atmosphere. And

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Speaker 1: then if there are clouds, you can see the clouds

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Speaker 1: usually quite clearly. You're not supposed to be able to

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Speaker 1: see clouds, but that's part of skyglow as well. And

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Speaker 1: as we'll see the villain of this episode, um blue

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Speaker 1: wavelength led lights are particularly problematic with skyglow because those

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Speaker 1: blue wavelength that blue wavelength light actually travels very far

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Speaker 1: and can create skyglow hundreds of miles away from the city.

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Speaker 1: When you're when you're way far away from the city,

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Speaker 1: you'll still be able to see it just fine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And Lyddy included this fun you know we're kind of

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Speaker 1: talking about he kind of just forget in the city

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Speaker 1: and you get used to stuff. She included a fun

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Speaker 1: little story from when Los Angeles had a big power

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Speaker 1: outage across the city and people are calling in very

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Speaker 1: concerned and reporting what ended up being the Milky Way

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Speaker 1: galaxy in the sky, right like if they thought it

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Speaker 1: was a gas cloud or something. I'm not sure, just

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Speaker 1: something concerning. I think, like, hey, there's a weird looking

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Speaker 1: glow in the sky, and uh, they went, it's fine,

401
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: it's the Milky Way. So UM, I was saying earlier

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Speaker 1: that our our light UM emissions have been increasing faster

403
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Speaker 1: than the human population. I think it's about it increased

404
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: about six percent a year between two thousand. Uh that's

405
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Speaker 1: a lot um and so it's tough to keep up

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Speaker 1: with and it's also tough to get people to kind

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00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: of give those up. As we'll see. But one of

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Speaker 1: the things that UM that has has kind of become

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Speaker 1: a newer problem, like artificial lights like porch lights that

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Speaker 1: get left on all night, UM, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: Those have been a problem for a real long time

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Speaker 1: but one of the newer problems, Chuck his satellites. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we talked about how many satellites are up there flying around,

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Speaker 1: and that's a problem. I think we talked a lot

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Speaker 1: about that in the Space Junk episode. It's a problem

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Speaker 1: for that reason. But it's a problem because they're interfering

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Speaker 1: with astronomy and uh in our night sky, aren't they? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: In particular, so there's satellite streaks. Um. They used to

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Speaker 1: show up in about point five cent of satellite images

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Speaker 1: or of astronomy images that were taking at twilight, which

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Speaker 1: is when you can see satellites most clearly. That's also

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Speaker 1: the time you can see things like comets and meteors

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Speaker 1: most clearly. So in addition to being an annoyance, UM,

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Speaker 1: it also potentially poses a hazard because it makes it

425
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: more difficult to track uh nearer objects that we want

426
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: to keep an eye on that maybe coming toward us.

427
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: Although if you see don't look up. It wouldn't matter

428
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,400
Speaker 1: anyway if we identified something like that in time. Did

429
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 1: you see that? Yeah? Was it good? Oh? Yeah, you

430
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: haven't seen it yet. No. The reviews were so bad

431
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: that I avoided it, really like abysmally bad. I don't

432
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 1: get that at all. Uh. That I was just like,

433
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna waste my time. Uh. And then I

434
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: got nominated for Best Picture, and I was like, well,

435
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: how if it's so bad? Like, I genuinely don't understand

436
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: what the bad reviews were. Not only was it, like,

437
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 1: you know, engrossing and like well done. And I thought

438
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: Vice was terrible. I thought it was a terrible movie.

439
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: So I'm not like some just Adam McKay fan. I

440
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: also thought The Other Guys is one of the worst

441
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: movies ever made. I think you and I walked out

442
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: of the theater on that one. Okay, So I've established

443
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: my bona fides. I'm not some lackey for Adam McKay.

444
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: But it was a really well done movie and it

445
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: was really entertaining too. Just looks up real quick. He's

446
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: got a fit for what it's worth on Rotten Tomatoes

447
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 1: and on Metacritic. I don't get it. It is definitely

448
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: nowhere near that bad. All right, it was actually pretty good.

449
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: I think you'd like it. I'd always go to the

450
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,959
Speaker 1: Roger Ebert dot com because I still trust the reviews

451
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: there and give it one point five stars. Man, So seriously, Chuck,

452
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,920
Speaker 1: I would like you to watch this pretty soon. We'll

453
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 1: come back on another episode and tell everybody. Don't tell

454
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: me first. I really wanted to be raw, and I

455
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: wanted to hurt. If it's gonna hurt, you know what

456
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: I mean, And just tell me what you think. I'm

457
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: watching his Lakers show, which is fun. Oh is it good? Yeah,

458
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: it's fun. I would recommend it. Okay, Well, i'll take

459
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 1: your recommendation, you take mine. Yeah, I definitely want to

460
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: see what all the stink is about. Uh, but you

461
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: gotta finish your stat though, because he only gave us

462
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: the front half. So yeah, so I think they showed

463
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 1: up in half of a percent of images before. Now

464
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 1: they're up to something like um of images taking at

465
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: twilight and it's just gonna two years. Yeah, and it's

466
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: just gonna keep getting worse and worse because um, we're

467
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: adding more and more satellites. And by way, I mean

468
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: Elon Musk with starlink um. Apparently I think he's got

469
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: or applied for permission for fort satellites for Starlink Internet

470
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: Um service satellites. It's gotten weird um challenge put into

471
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: a fight. I know, I know, Yes, that is demonstrably weird,

472
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: not just to a fight, a fight for like all

473
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: the marbles over Ukraine, Like if he beat up Vladimer Putin,

474
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: weird Putin was going to have to leave Ukraine, I

475
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: guess was the thing. It is very weird. I agree.

476
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: Maybe he thinks we're living in a cartoon simulation of

477
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: real world. I'm pretty sure he does. But there are

478
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: So there's gonna be something like a hundred thousand satellites

479
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: in the next few years, they think, because people like

480
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: Elon Musk and others are just launching launching launching, and

481
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: it's going to be more and more problematic, which is

482
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: a problem, like you said, for tracking the Earth objects.

483
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: So that's the kind of thing that people should pay

484
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: attention to. Well. Plus also they pose a problem for

485
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: astronomy and that they use radio signals to transmit, and

486
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: we use radio telescopes to pick up radio transmissions, and

487
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: apparently the satellite people and the telescope people are not

488
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: necessarily coordinating, so they're not making the satellites of invisible

489
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: to the radio telescopes by using specific wavelengths that the

490
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: radio telescopes could then tune out. So I think that's

491
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: a problem in that sense as well. Yeah, here's one

492
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: stat uh, without telescopes, just with your regular vision looking

493
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: up in the sky, satellites will very soon make up

494
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 1: one intent visible lights in the sky. That's a lot.

495
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: So those aren't stars you're seeing up there, No, it's

496
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,479
Speaker 1: about those will be satellites. Which that's also a problem

497
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: in that sense too. Um, we might as well talk

498
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: about it now. Um. One of the things that that

499
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: I find very satisfying because it keeps coming up whenever

500
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: you look into light pollution and people um advocating about

501
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: doing something about it, is that there are a lot

502
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: of indigenous cultures around the world who, um, whose heritage

503
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: is predicated at least in part on the night sky,

504
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: on celestial stuff and not just like really bright stars

505
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: like you could see it a city, but like really

506
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: subtle stuff too. And it's extensive and has it's like

507
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: a deep catalog of the cosmos that they use as

508
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: part of like their worldview and some of their religious

509
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: and spiritual views. Um. And that is being um infringed

510
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 1: upon just by satellites and light pollution too. Yeah. I think,

511
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: uh this one, Uh it wouldn't a direct quote, but

512
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: O Livia says that there are some scholars out there

513
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: that are saying this is basically like a cultural genocide

514
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: that we're seeing happening to some of these cultures that

515
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: rely so much on the night sky for you know,

516
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 1: not just navigation but rituals. And uh, this is happening

517
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: in Australia, and I think Indigenous Hawaiians are kind of

518
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: big on trying to preserve that starlight for their culture

519
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, and it's it's being prevented from being

520
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: passed on from generation to generation because the same things

521
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: that were there and could be for like talked about

522
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: and passed on hundred years ago, you just can't see

523
00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: anymore in a lot of places. I thought that was

524
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: really interesting. It comes up a lot, and you know,

525
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: some some people, um try to co opt it to

526
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: basically say, like c C. We need to we need

527
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: to get rid of light pollution. But um, it does

528
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: seem to be like genuinely included at the table now. Yeah,

529
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: for people like the International Dark Skies Associations, like they're

530
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 1: like and this is a legitimate issue too that we

531
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: need to be taking into account. Should we talk about animals? Yeah,

532
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: so it's an annoyance to humans and We're gonna also

533
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: talk about real like health effects on humans in a bit,

534
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: but it's obviously going to interfere with animals. Um And

535
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: there are many many examples, everything from uh, you know,

536
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: city birds thinking it's morning and you know, five and

537
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: six hours before they're supposed to be awake with their

538
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: little friends in the countryside, they're up and chirping and

539
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: singing their bird song. Uh. Two animals that navigate at

540
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: night like literally depend on the night sky for their migrations,

541
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: and it confus using or completely throwing off base their

542
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: migration patterns to where you know, they lose their way,

543
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: to get lost, they could possibly even die. Yeah, and

544
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 1: it's I mean, I guess just cities having a lot

545
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: of light tends to attract migrating birds in particular, so

546
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 1: that you see bird strikes um, which usually results in

547
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: the death of a bird, really increase a couple of

548
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: times a year when they're migrating one way and then

549
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: when they're migrating back the other way at a different

550
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 1: part of the year. Um. And I came up with

551
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: a website, Chuck that I thought was really interesting. It's

552
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 1: called bird cast dot info. You came up with it,

553
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: meaning you designed it yourself just this very morning. It's

554
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: pretty good considering I don't know what I'm doing and

555
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: I did it in a couple of hours. Hey, thanks

556
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: to squarespace, right, I really shouldn't take credit for somebody

557
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: else's work. No, it's not my website. But they have

558
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: migration forecasts like maps, and you can type in your

559
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: town and it will it will show you like the

560
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: next few days of what what the expected bird migrations

561
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: are going to be like, um, like numbers wise basically,

562
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: and you can actually adjust your outdoor lighting at night

563
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: to help those birds because they are attracted to light.

564
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: They're normally diurnal, meaning that they're active in the daytime.

565
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 1: Those birds that are migrating, but they choose to migrate

566
00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,760
Speaker 1: at night, which means they're not pros at navigating at

567
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: night necessarily. Um So they can be easily thrown off,

568
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: of course, by being attracted to like a city with

569
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: a bunch of bright lights. And then even worse than that,

570
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: they frequently will dive bomb into windows with a lot

571
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: of light for reasons I'm not entirely clear on. Yeah,

572
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 1: to the tune of you know, and everyone's like, sure

573
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 1: that happens, right, now and then. There are about a

574
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: billion birds a year that die from running into glass

575
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: in the US alone. Yeah, and we have lost um

576
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: thirty almost thirty we've lost of our birds since the

577
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, like a net loss overall, not just from

578
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 1: from running into buildings. But that's the big chunk of it,

579
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: is bird strikes into buildings. Yeah, so a lot of

580
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 1: cities are I think Chicago started back in the late nineties,

581
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:20,479
Speaker 1: started with these lights out programs where you know, they

582
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: basically say, hey, if you live in a or you know,

583
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: have a high rise office building, you turn that stuff

584
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: off at night, or you close the blinds, or do both,

585
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: or move to only task lighting, or at the very

586
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: least turn off decorative lighting at night. And a lot

587
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: of companies and buildings have gotten on board with this

588
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: kind of thing, thankfully. Yeah, the guys who walk around

589
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: with the huge ring of keys getting on board with

590
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. I thought they like it dark.

591
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: Some Something I didn't realize, chuck, but that I find

592
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: kind of awesome is that there are a lot of

593
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:57,239
Speaker 1: insects species that that pollinate and visit flowering plants at

594
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: night when you're asleep, Like there you in their thing

595
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: did not realize that same. But it turns out that

596
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: those insects can be greatly impacted by artificial light UM

597
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: and so that apparently in turn has a deep impact

598
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 1: on the um neuroth object callback has a deep impact

599
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: on the pollination of flowering plants. And they did a

600
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: study in the Bernese prealps beautiful name um and it's

601
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: typically dark there. So what they did was they they

602
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: they surveyed how many insects UM arrived under normal conditions, right, yeah.

603
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: I think they worked with about three hundred species of

604
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: insects that do their business at night, uh and I

605
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 1: think sixty plants. And they found that when they turned

606
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 1: on these uh led street lights that near these meadows,

607
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: that the pollinator visits drop sixty two percent. And that

608
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: was a thirteen and people like, oh, you know, but

609
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: what's the big deal, you can just do it during

610
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: the day. It led to an overall thirteen percent drop

611
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: in fruit production. So you know, the trickle down effect

612
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 1: that this has. We talked about this kind of thing

613
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: all the time in ecosystems. It's no different for nighttime pollinators.

614
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: Like if you like to eat your fruit and have abundant,

615
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, fruits and vegetables. This is one thing that's

616
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: disrupting that. And it can also impact the plants directly

617
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: to like light can trick them into thinking that the

618
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 1: days are not getting shorter even though they are. So

619
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 1: they're getting um artificial feedback UM and they're keeping their

620
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: leaves longer. There's some types of cacti and palms I

621
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: think that have been shown to um not flour at

622
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: all when they're exposed to artificial light at night, which

623
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: I don't think we said that that's the that's kind

624
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: of like the the the in group term for light

625
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: pollution artificial light at night or allan, allan or allan. Yeah, sorry,

626
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: all the ones listening. We're not picking on you from

627
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: this point. And Karen's sure it stinks someone's name has

628
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 1: been co opted. Yeah, for now, I think that's fading.

629
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 1: You know, it'll pass it. It's already out, I think. Okay, Like,

630
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: if you're still saying that now, it's you maybe a Karen,

631
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: what about those poor little sea turtles. Yeah, so one

632
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: of the things that sea turtles used to get to

633
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: um the safety of the ocean after they hatch on

634
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,920
Speaker 1: the beach is light like, they go towards the brightest

635
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: light that they see, and normally, under normal circumstances that's

636
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: the sun or not the sun, but the moon reflecting

637
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: off of the water kind of guides them. They can

638
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: be very, very bright. And I found out recently it

639
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 1: had been a while since I guess it's seen the

640
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: moonlight like a full moon over the ocean. Uh. And

641
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: when we went to Amelia Island after Disney World, I

642
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: had a night like that on the beach where it

643
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: was like daylight out there. Yeah. Remember that amazing that

644
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: great shot had to have been Yeah, of course it

645
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,439
Speaker 1: was just made up, but it was a great looking shot.

646
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: And Joe versus a volcano and he's out there in

647
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: the middle of the ocean on that steamer trunk and

648
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: that moon just rises over him. I forgot how big

649
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: it was. What a great movie that was. Yeah, we

650
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: haven't talked about that one in a while. One of

651
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: the best. Um. So, what do they have to do

652
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: with the sea turtles? Yeah, that's why they tell you

653
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 1: to not use your flashlights on the beach during sea

654
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 1: turtle season because that light confuses them. Yes, And if

655
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: you have a beach house, typically you're asked to keep

656
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 1: your outside lights turned off and even inside lights turned

657
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,879
Speaker 1: off so that you don't accidentally attract the hatchlings because

658
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,759
Speaker 1: when they move away from the water where they're relatively safer, um,

659
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: they sometimes walk right into the jaws of wily coyote. Right,

660
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: And I imagine beach house people, uh comply because I

661
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: think they probably love their sea turtles and they try

662
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: to be generally good stewards of their their area. If

663
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: there's anything people who own beach houses are known for

664
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: its compliance. Should we take a break? All right, we'll

665
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: be right back. Okay, So now we've reached the point

666
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: where a lot of the humanists can start to get

667
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: on board to this, because artificial light at night a

668
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: K light pollution has terrible effects on human beings as well. Yeah. So,

669
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously some of the stuff is just getting

670
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:57,239
Speaker 1: worse sleep and what that does to your body as

671
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: far as anxiety and stress and you know, headaches and

672
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: migraines and things like that. But I know you dug

673
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: up some interesting stuff on cancer even, right, Yes, so

674
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: it's that blue wavelength LED light has been linked to

675
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: something called global DNA methylation and methylation. Do you remember

676
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 1: way back in our episode on can your Grandfather's Diet? Like, yeah,

677
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: something well, and it was it was about epigenetics. Well,

678
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: DNA methylation is how epigenetics happens. It's where a methyl

679
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: group is put onto a gene to turn it on

680
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: or off. And what they found is that this is

681
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: a huge trigger for things like diabetes, type two diabetes,

682
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: I should say cancer, specifically breast cancer as far as

683
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 1: light's concerned, and that this DNA methylation can be triggered

684
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: in turn by exposure to artificial blue wavelength light at night.

685
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: It messes with our circadian rhythm and that's one of

686
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: the ways our bodies respond to it. So it is

687
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: not an exaggeration to say that being exposed to blue

688
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: wavelength light at night can can trigger cancer in your body,

689
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,320
Speaker 1: or potentially type two diabetes or a whole host of

690
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: chronic conditions. Yeah. I mean it's such a problem that

691
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: the A m A. I think in six officially like

692
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: issued guidance on limiting the impact of Elie door led

693
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: outdoor lighting systems. Uh. And you know when the A

694
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 1: m A is like officially weighing in on something, that

695
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: means it's got sufficient evidence to do so. It's not.

696
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: It's not saying this is sort of annoyance to your neighbors.

697
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: It's saying this is legitimately impacting the health of people. Yeah,

698
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,240
Speaker 1: and it's definitely been linked to breast cancer at least.

699
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: But um, from what I was reading, the fact that

700
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 1: it's been now shown to trigger DNA methylation um suggests

701
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 1: that there's a whole bunch of other horrible things that

702
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: could happen as a result. So steer Claire, seriously. If

703
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: you have an iPhone, just go into your settings. I

704
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: think it's um, oh, what's it called, chuck, It's like

705
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 1: nighttime or something like that. Um, sweet sweepy time. It's

706
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: in your display settings or some where you'll find like

707
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: brightness and all that. And um it's like night night

708
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: shift I think, or something like that, and just turn

709
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: that on. Just do sunset to sunrise and you will

710
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: night shift night shift, thank you, um, and you will,

711
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 1: you will. You will be much the better for it.

712
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: And I think there's apps also you can add onto

713
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: your Android phone too. You don't have to have an iPhone,

714
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: and you can probably do the same thing to your

715
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: computer as well. Yeah, night shift I head mine on.

716
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: I didn't even realize it. Good for you, Jack, uh so,

717
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: And I love how Livia put this. Uh, the good

718
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: news about fighting light pollution, she says, is there's a

719
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,800
Speaker 1: lot of low hanging fruit. It really is kind of

720
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: that easy. Um, there are so many things that individuals

721
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: can do in their on their own properties. Uh. The

722
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: I d A estimates that thirty of outdoor lighting in

723
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: the US is wasted. So you know, a lot of

724
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: this lighting that people have isn't even doing the thing

725
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: that is supposed to be doing if it is wasted. Uh,

726
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: And it's a financial loss to about three point three

727
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: billion dollars annually and twenty one million tons of CEO

728
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: two emissions. And this is just from wasted light, not

729
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: from just having lights right exactly. So, like I was

730
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: saying before, like it it goes hand in hand talking

731
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: about light pollution and mitigating it goes hand in hand

732
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: with keeping people from wasting electricity too, and some of

733
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: that low hanging fruit, like this is stuff you can

734
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: do on an individual basis. And then if you really

735
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: get into this and you really want to make a difference, Um,

736
00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: you can like teach yourself and arm yourself through um,

737
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 1: through kind of outreach that the i DA has to

738
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: go educate your city and get your city to put

739
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: in different kinds of street lights that UM shield from

740
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: light pollution so that you do have to like go

741
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: stand underneath it to to to get that glare UM

742
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,399
Speaker 1: and so there isn't light trespass and and there's less

743
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: sky glow. UM. There's a lot of things that you

744
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: can do, So a lot of things you can do

745
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: on the local level. UM, but one of the big

746
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 1: ones is just like stop and think like do I

747
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,359
Speaker 1: really need light in this area? Like does there need

748
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: to be some some blaring like blue led street light

749
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: on my shed that I don't even have anything in

750
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: Is it really like needed? And that raises a big question, Chuck,

751
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people are saying, like, well, what

752
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 1: about crime. That's why we light the night is is

753
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: to to prevent crime. And there's plenty of studies that say, yeah,

754
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:48,280
Speaker 1: if you add some artificial light, it will reduce crime.

755
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: But there's apparently an equal amount of studies that say, actually,

756
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 1: not only does that not have an impact on lowering crime,

757
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 1: in some cases that actually increases some kinds of crime.

758
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: Like if you want to make sure that you're the

759
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 1: side of your school building is um really well lit

760
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: for graffiti artists at night, you should make sure that

761
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,879
Speaker 1: you have all sorts of artificial lighting. Um. You can

762
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 1: use some studies make the case that, uh, you are

763
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: more it's easier to size up a person for whether

764
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: they're a target um by a criminal when in a

765
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,200
Speaker 1: really well lit place and vice versa. UM in the dark,

766
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: your eyes are more acclimated to seeing things in the dark,

767
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: like a criminal who might be waiting up ahead for you. Yeah,

768
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: Like I mean you think about it. If you're on

769
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: a really well lit pathway, Uh, the the nearby shadows

770
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: are really really dark, and that's where these people could be.

771
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 1: You know, not to be too you know, fearmongering. But

772
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: but that's where they're laying in wait for you. Right,

773
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: But that's true, Like big light creates big shadow and

774
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: darkness nearby. And you know, when they do studies, they

775
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: do show that is reduction in crime. But when you

776
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,319
Speaker 1: look at like the overall number, like it reduces crime

777
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,320
Speaker 1: at night, but the overall number of crimes is a

778
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: much less percentage. I think reduction at night in a

779
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 1: place like New York, whereas if you take a whole

780
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: day it's about four percent overall, which means most of

781
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: the crimes are committed during the day. You think of

782
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: nighttime as being more scary, but more crime is committed

783
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: during the day. Right. And also when you're considering whether

784
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: you need a light or not one that I saw,

785
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: Chuck was um uh, like, do you need to leave

786
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: your back porch light on? And normally when you leave

787
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: a light on, it's to do two things. Is to

788
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: deter somebody, but in that case you might actually be

789
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: making it easier for the criminal to see their way

790
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:47,480
Speaker 1: into breaking into your house, right, um. And then secondly,

791
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 1: the other reason you would do it is to is

792
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: to expose those people to provide witness as well. Who's

793
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: watching the back of your house at night, Probably no one.

794
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: And in fact, if you don't have that light there,

795
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: you may force the criminal to use a flashlight, which

796
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: is going to be even more suspicious than somebody standing

797
00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 1: at your back door. Or you might use a motion

798
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: detection light, which is from what I've seen, the optimal

799
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,640
Speaker 1: thing to do if you're worried about security but also

800
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: concerned about light pollution. Yeah, because then they walk back

801
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: there in the dark and then boom hit him. With

802
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: the spotlight and if you you know, if you have

803
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: the security cameras at your house, those things worked really

804
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 1: well in the dark these days. Uh So if security

805
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 1: is your issue, there are ways to get around that

806
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 1: that that's not like lighting up your house like a

807
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: prison yard. That's it. I got nothing else. I don't

808
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: think I do either, actually, So that's it for artificial

809
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: light at night, Alan a k A. Light pollution. Hopefully

810
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: this has opened your eyes a little bit to it,

811
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: but not so much that you're blinded by the glare,

812
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: you know, right. Uh And since we front loaded listener mail,

813
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,359
Speaker 1: we'll just use this and to say, read the word

814
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: about stuff you should know here in your uh fourteen Yeah, yeah,

815
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: basically yes, that just basically yes, like next month will

816
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: be in your fourteen And uh. We don't talk a

817
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: lot about trying to grow the show, which we should

818
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: probably do. More so tell a friend, tell a neighbor,

819
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 1: tell a colleague about stuff you should know, and introduce

820
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: him to the podcast. And it really helps us continue

821
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: to do what we do. Yeah, and not just a podcast, Chuck,

822
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: we have a book, a New York Times bestseller. We do.

823
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: In fact, we have a trivial pursuit game. That's right,

824
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: that will hopefully be on store shelves again soon. Uh yeah,

825
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,919
Speaker 1: And what else? We sell tufts of our hair. Sure,

826
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: I got a lot of hair right now, I can.

827
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: I can send out tough so we can make some money.

828
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: But that you gotta cut me in, Okay, all right, Well,

829
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch with us and

830
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: try to purchase some of Chuck's hair, you can email

831
00:47:53,480 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: me at stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff

832
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.

833
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart

834
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

835
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 1: favorite shows. H