WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra- Carnival CEO Arnold Donald 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.320 This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:08.840 Masser and I'm Tim Stanavk. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:11.399 Week Extra. It's a weekly podcast bring you a highlight 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.600 our favorite interview from the week. And this week it 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.840 is a well, it's always good, Carol, but this week 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.720 is a particular good one. Arnold Donald, President CEO of 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:22.000 Carnival Corporation. He's had of the world's largest cruise line operator. 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.200 He was one of the many leaders who joined us 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.680 this past week for Bloomberg's the year had summit held 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:28.920 virtually of course, of course, intim we know one of 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.200 the hardest hit industries by the pandemic. It's everything and 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.360 anything to do with the travel sector and most notably 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.159 the cruise industry. So I talked with Arnold to find 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.199 out what kind of year we can expect from the 0:00:39.200 --> 0:00:41.559 cruise industry in one and what it's like to be 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.320 called I gotta tell you a bell weather for the pandemic. 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:49.640 We are very resilient industry, very blessed than so many 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:54.040 ways um in terms of everything that has happened and 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.640 it's gone on. So I'm doing well. So I have 0:00:57.760 --> 0:00:59.480 to ask you. I was doing a lot of research 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.560 and getting ready to talk with you, and so many 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:05.479 times I would read Carnival, it's the bell weather for 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.280 the stocks and companies that have been hit hardest by 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.520 the pandemic. Everybody's watching you guys to get an idea 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.480 of when do we start to get back to normal. So, 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:15.840 first of all, how does it feel to be a 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:19.160 bell weather of this? And what are you and what 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:23.880 are you seeing in terms of what looks like. I'm 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.200 not sure if we're truly a bell weather, but it's 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.680 been a tough time. It's a it's a very difficult 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:34.160 time for travel and leisure um and obviously difficult time 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:37.880 for cruise. You know, we voluntarily paused way back in 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.959 March of and here we are in January of one 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.520 and we're still not sailing. We've had a few sailings 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.160 over in Europe, but you know, very limited basis. So 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.800 you know, they have a business with no revenue for 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:54.880 such an extended period of time and a significant burn 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.320 rate because obviously we have to keep our ships operationally. 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.560 You can't set these ships up to that airplanes. You 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:02.640 can't just put them in a hangar. You have to 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.400 continue to operate them, and so it's been very challenging. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:09.760 On the other hand, UM, the company's proven its resilience 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:13.560 are people have been fantastic. We have raised over nineteen 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.799 billion dollars of capital in the past few months, all 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:20.679 virtually nobody in an office, not our people, not the investors, 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.000 not the bankers, not the lawyers, um. And so some 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.720 extraordinary things have happened. Plus, we got ninety thousand crew 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.639 members carroll back home at a time where no flights 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:34.720 there were, you know, borders were closed, et cetera. So 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.120 that was a major ideal not to mention in the 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:41.760 early days, two fifty thousand guests plus as well. Hey, 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:43.519 what I wanted to ask you because I feel like, 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:47.560 go back a year ago, you folks, Carnival, the cruise 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.920 industry was seeing I think the depth of the magnitude, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.360 the seriousness of what this virus was about. Right you 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.240 were seeing it. Certainly you had passengers on the ship, 0:02:57.320 --> 0:02:59.240 you had employees you had to deal with. I just 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.359 feel like you guys got an earlier window into how 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.640 serious this could be. Do you feel like that there's 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.000 any early windows that you're seeing right now that maybe 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.760 the rest of the world is not. Yeah, I don't 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.160 know if we really had an earlier window, but clearly 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:18.079 we were impacted because, um, when countries closed their borders, 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.160 we had ships at sea because this was evolving, nobody 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.880 understood it. People were shutting down and we had to 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:27.760 get people home. So that was a major episode for us. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.720 And maybe that's what I mean, And maybe that's what 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.880 I mean is that you guys really felt the impact 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.480 pretty quickly, pretty swiftly before a lot of other folks didn't. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:40.600 A lot of other industries did. I think our return, unfortunately, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.119 is probably going to be slower than others um. And 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.280 it's because we have so many If you take a cruise, 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:50.600 you go somewhere, so everyone talks about c d C, 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.000 which of course is critically important in terms of having 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.640 you know, the confidence of CDC for us to sale. 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.280 But we have to go to destinations. Those destinations have 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.000 to feel uh, and we're not gonna be able to 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.400 start all that once. We're gonna have to stagger our start. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.760 We'll start with a few ships at a time, et cetera. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:10.160 And so we'll be slower coming back, but we will 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.400 come back. And depending when um, it is in the 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.279 best of public health, you know, to sail here in 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.720 the US and elsewhere in the world. Um, we're cautiously optimistic, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.960 hopeful that we could have nearly all the fleet back 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.479 sailing by the end of the year. Um. But obviously 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:31.440 hotels and schools and other places where there is um 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:37.000 congregation of people are going already happening, and so you know, 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:38.880 they're kind of in front of us in terms of 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.400 being able to see when things are coming back to normal. Right, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.240 And just recently think on Friday and then also Monday, 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:48.680 you guys announced some extending some of your pauses on 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:52.080 your departures in the United States. So do me a favor, Arnold, 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.480 take me to you know, your first US depart your 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.520 post COVID. What does it look like and when do 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:00.360 you you know, fingers crossed, when do you think it 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:05.080 might be? Yeah, well, those are great answers. I would 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.719 love o great questions. I love to have the answers too, 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:09.719 But the reality is, you know what it's gonna look 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.359 like is um. You know, obviously there's going to be 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.920 enhanced protocols on board health protocols because in this time frame, 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:20.280 even with the advent of vaccines, even with the acceleration 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.840 of low cost, rapid, more accurate testing. Even with the 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.559 advancement of treatments. Um, you know, COVID is still still 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:30.880 out there and about and still impacting people. And so 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.560 we're gonna have to have elevated protocols for a period 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.920 of time. Physical distance, Yeah, what does it look like? Yeah? 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.440 And and and good news is we've done it now 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:44.520 in in Italy and Germany for example, And so the guests, 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.600 for the guests, they have a great experience, but they 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.320 are wearing masks. You know, there is an attention of 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.400 physical distancing. It looks like when you go to the 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.160 grocery store wherever you go now and there's a little 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:57.400 spot on the Floria says, you know, stand six ft 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.479 behind the person in front of you or something or 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.280 in the air or or whatever. So so that's what 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:04.200 you know. It's going to have those kinds of fields 0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:06.320 to it. But it will still be a cruise. People 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.960 will still be experiencing new places and new people in 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:12.080 new destinations. Um. You know, we had our very high 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.359 net promoter scores, you know, guest satisfaction scores on the 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.440 cruises that we had in Italy in Germany. I have 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.400 to say, and you know, you know, I spent some 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.560 time with you guys, went on a cruise, just kind 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.760 of went out an overnight. But you know, part of 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.640 the fun is there's a lot of people on those ships. 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.360 I mean, they're massive. So I do wonder does the 0:06:30.400 --> 0:06:32.760 new protocol mean that you have to limit the amount 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:34.680 of passengers you have on a ship at least for 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.480 some time. Well, we'll have to see. I think initially 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:42.120 that will probably happen to a degree as we practice 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:44.760 the protocols with the crew and get them used to 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.160 handling everything. We certainly did that with our early sailings 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.120 in Europe. Um. But the ships are vast, as you know, 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.520 you've been on them, and so you know, and so 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.359 the most important thing is not how many people, but 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:01.040 in those situations where you can have a congregation of people, um, 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:03.920 you know, is there adequate room for distancing? Can we 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.680 distribute which we can for dining and other things to 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.440 have the physical space like you having restaurants square and 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.040 in places where you're allowed to eat inside the US today. 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.560 And so there will probably be some limitation based on 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.880 those types of things, but maybe not as much as 0:07:19.960 --> 0:07:23.880 people think. You know, our ships initially will start slow, 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:27.720 but chances are we'll be back to relatively full I 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.640 can see just with different practices. Are you going to 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:33.440 require passengers who get on the ship, are you going 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:37.760 to require employees to get COVID tests? Are you going 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:40.600 to require vaccinations? I'm just curious how that comes into 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:44.560 playing universal testing Right now it is required for the cruises. UM, 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.160 absolutely the ones we are operating. Vaccines are new, and 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.320 so we have to see where that evolves. And we're 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:52.920 gonna listen to the medical experts around the world, just 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.360 as we have on everything else. UM, you know, the 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:59.000 science and medical experts around the world, and then determine 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.880 what makes the most sense. UM. You know, everything is 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:05.560 still evolving, as you well know. UM that you know, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.680 there's still a lot of questions and unknowns. UM. But yeah, 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:12.040 we'll we'll do whatever is in the best interest of 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:15.240 public health and UM. And you know we don't want 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.880 to do anything. We never have historically in the industry 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.240 and our company certainly not UM to do anything to 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.120 compromise public health and we certainly are in this situation. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.200 Is there a little part of you, Arnold that is 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:32.920 at all worried that looks a lot more like than 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.960 maybe we're all setting up for Well, here's the differences 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.200 I see that caused me not to feel that way 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.280 I feel early on in twenty one. You know, obviously 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.400 we're having a hangover of fact kind of and uh 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:53.120 question about that, UM. But we have vaccines and we didn't. UM. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.439 You know, we have some in his treatment protocols that 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:00.800 most of we didn't have. We have much more testing 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:04.640 availability and rapid testing and a more accurate testing, which 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:08.559 in most of we didn't. We have a much better understanding, 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.640 although we're not fully knowledgeable about the virus, we have 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:14.600 a much better understanding of the virus where we didn't. 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:17.320 And so when I look at all those things, you know, 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.920 I see twenty one, you know, with with some optimism, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.800 but at the same time realizing we have to continue 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.920 to you know, let things evolve and study and pay 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.040 attention to the science first and then secondly, you know, 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:37.280 to our societal ability to you know, UM, both function 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:42.120 as a society and have people feel comfortable in that function. 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.120 You mentioned at the top that you guys raised nineteen 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.400 billion dollars, there was debt, there was equity raises. UM. 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.600 That puts you guys in a great position. It's really 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:55.920 pretty impressive. And and do you feel like Wall Street 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.120 has acknowledged your ability to do that? And I do 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.640 wonder do you anticipate that you could do that? You 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:05.760 have to do any other kind of capital raises here? Well, 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.160 you know what we've said, you know, public Dayvius at 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.680 this point is we have raised over nineteen billion dollars 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.840 and that gives us a runway. It gives us liquidity 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.679 to make it through all of twenty one with zero revenues. 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.800 So we have no revenues for the full year. Um, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:24.920 you know, with a pretty healthy burned rate given the 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.160 number of ships we have in everything, and we can 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.559 get through the years. So so that gives us time. 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.439 And in terms of UM, and we've already published that 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:39.480 we have additional capacity for debt um obviously UM. As 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.800 we move forward, we'll pay attention to the balance sheet 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.560 and if we determine it makes sense, well, you know, 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.920 we can do additional equity raise if if we need to. 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.400 So so we have some flexibility which gives us confidence 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.000 we can sort of weather the storm. And you know 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:58.280 it's not without sacrifice, it's not without some pain. UM. Yes, 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.520 that was raised that pretty aggressive rates and so on 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.520 and so forth, given the time and with the markets 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.160 were like at the time. The market today seems to be, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.640 you know, somewhat better and so on. But but the 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.719 bottom line is, you know, it's not what our pain is, 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.560 not what our sacrifice. But it was necessary. This was 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:17.480 a global pandemic. I mean, it was a major event 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.120 that shut down travel in the world. And and um, 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.400 we're in the travel business. So um, so you know, 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.360 we don't because I take it as a matter of fact. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.600 And you know, I don't think that it wasn't painful, 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:34.439 It wasn't difficult. My people had to do unbelievable work 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.839 to pull all this off. Um, but it proved the 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:41.200 resiliency of our company, and we feel we're positioned the 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.600 weather the storm and come back out and once you 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:48.120 know this is more under control globally, we'll be right 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:51.400 back to the happy days we were at before. So 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.200 I am curious what metric you and your team Arnold 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.439 kind of focused on when it comes to the pandemic. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.640 I mean, we talked about cases, hospitalizations. Obviously, the death 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.960 rate it we have seen I think some of the 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.480 case numbers and the hospitalizations albeit there are pretty rough levels, 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.360 but they've come down a little bit. Is that the 0:12:09.360 --> 0:12:12.360 thing that will ultimately determine how quickly you guys can 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:16.160 get back to operational. I don't think there's so much 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:21.520 the number of cases. I think it's society's relative comfort 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:27.120 that is under control. That number one. If you get it, 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:32.040 that you are at much lower risk than people have 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.360 feared up to this point because you have a vaccine 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.800 or because there are treatments, etcetera. Are just because people 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.199 know many people who have had it and seem to 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.079 get through it. But but a lot of this is 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.959 is societal risk. The second thing is, as I mentioned, 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:52.520 with the adventage of vaccines, with the acceleration of testing, 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.640 with the advancements and treatments, you're mitigating the consequences from 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:01.480 having COVID is the big thing. So you may still 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:04.480 have cases and its viruses like a cold or flu 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.160 overn so you know, you may still have lots of cases. 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.679 But if it's not flooding the i c u s, 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.720 if it's not consuming all the beds in the hospital, 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:18.880 if it's not putting the general population at great personal 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:23.240 risk permanent health damage or worse, um, then I think 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.320 you know, people will will kind of come around, and 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.080 then you layer on top of that all the layers 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:34.319 of prevention, mitigation of spread, so on and so forth 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:37.640 that you know, we would incorporate um in our business 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.560 and crews because you know, we've had to deal with 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:43.720 viruses Carrols. You know, we've had with you know, Ebolans, 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.040 Stars and Ers and Zeke and saw on through the years, 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:49.480 and we know how to do that. Um. You know 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:50.960 we have to, you know, learn how to do this. 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:53.640 We go ahead, Well I do wonder, no, no, no, 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:55.160 forgive me. I mean I could talk for an hour 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.240 with you. You know I do wonder too, is if 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.839 somebody like in your plan name, when you guys get 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:03.839 back to normal, We're not going to totally eradicate this virus. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.040 We know it's going to take a while. That if someone, 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.160 if someone gets it on a ship, what will you 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.120 guys do? Will you quarantine that individual? Will you get 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.120 them off the ship right away? Like, I'm curious what 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:15.760 the playbook might be on that going forward. Yeah, we 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.160 have we have, you know, extensive protocols. So for example, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:23.240 right now and again, these will changes, you know, everything changes, vaccines, 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.680 treatments and so on. But right now, everybody's universally tested 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.000 the PCR tests before they go on board. For the 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:31.440 for the sailings, we have UM once on board, this 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:36.280 physical distancing mask wearing, et cetera. If someone shows symptoms, okay, 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:39.200 there's additional medical screening and all that beforehand, but if 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.360 someone shows symptoms then immediately, you know, we we encourage 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.800 everybody to self report, but you know we're observing. If 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:48.320 anyone shows any symptoms, they immediately they We actually have 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:52.680 testing on board on these ships now, both PCR and 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:57.120 anergen testing, and so you know we'll test, but immediately 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.040 even with symptoms. Then the visual as size UM, we 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:05.240 look at close contact tracing UM and so the rest 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.960 of the ship is fine because if you can mitigate 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.640 the risk of spread, then then you're in good shape. 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:13.520 And so so that's what we do and then we 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.840 monitor along the way. But we also if someone does 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.200 test positive, obviously you want to get them, you know, 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:23.240 to proper care and so you you want to get 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.200 them off the ship. You do the close contact tracing UM. 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.600 You you know isolated or have the others you know 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.040 lead the ship that you know have been in close 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.640 contact you know, extending a period of time enough time 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.160 to get a viral load, um whatever, and then you 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:39.280 continue to say on and you continue to monitor, so 0:15:39.520 --> 0:15:42.600 you know, full time monitoring and paying attention. But the 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.640 reality is that if it's in the community at large, 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:51.040 you know, it's gonna be on ships and things and 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.000 wherever you go, it's just gonna be there. And so 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.400 the question is what layers do you have to mitigate 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.640 the risk of spread um Because even with testing, as 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:03.400 you well know, it depends on the timing of the 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:07.720 teme guarantee. You know, everybody's different. Some people manifest in 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:12.000 a few days, some manifest later, some are asymptomatic, some 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:16.560 have extensive symptoms and so on. And even with extensive 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.280 testing and everything, you know, you can still have the 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.040 occurrence of someone you know with the virus. So the 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:27.640 key is mitigating the spread. So we've talked about, as 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:29.160 you said, we're we've got to kind of wait to 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:31.840 see how this year plays out, and the fragility really 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.400 of kind of our environment overall, and it's not just 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:36.320 for the cruise industry but for everything. We're just kind 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.360 of taking it day by day. When we talk about fragility, 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.920 I feel like the first two weeks, the first week 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.840 of this year, the political chaos created a whole other 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.280 layer of fragility. We just have a couple more minutes, 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.160 but I'd be remiss if I didn't kind of get 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.200 you to weigh in. And I do think about how 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.680 you saw that, and what's the responsibility of leaders in 0:16:55.720 --> 0:17:00.880 corporate corporate America in terms of helping us through this division. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.920 And I do wonder, Carnival, are you guys still doing 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.680 political contributions? Have you pulled back at all like we've 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:10.119 seen with other companies. Yeah, so, first of all, you know, 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:12.600 we've examined the political contribution. Let me just start with 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.720 the beginning first. You know, the things that happened originally 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:20.040 at the Capitol, Um, you know, obviously are my feeling 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.800 personally is, you know, those people involved in that, anybody 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:30.919 that promoted, instigated, collaborated, you know, cursed whatever that activity. Um, 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.800 the full runt of our laws should be enforced with 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.880 with those people. Now, haven't said that? You know, I 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:45.320 think Americans and people more broadly in the world have 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.879 just gone through one of the most trying years ever. 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:54.760 Was hard for everybody, and I really feel that is 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.159 past time you know, for us to focus on what 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.960 really matters and come to get that to deal with it. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.439 First and foremost, we have this health crisis, you know, 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:10.359 we have a major economic challenge, and clearly we need 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.840 to continue to work on elevating our standards of social justice. 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:16.919 And that's not just in the US as worldwide. And 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.240 so it's past time that we all come together to 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.879 to really in earnest work on those things. Yes, we 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:25.399 may have different points of view, and that's the beauty 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.720 of travel, you know. Travel brings people together who, as 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:30.840 you well know who it's so different from each other, 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.000 and then they discover what they have in common, so 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.800 they can celebrate the differences, you know, as opposed to 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.280 fearm and and we just all really truly. I know 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.240 it sounds like motherhood and apple pie, but but it's 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:47.080 so clear to everyone that we come together and work 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.440 on these issues for real. And yes, they're going to 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:51.600 be some differences of opinions, but that doesn't mean we 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:55.840 can't work together this figure out solutions. All right. So 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.959 then in terms of political contributions, because we know companies 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.600 can say a lot by what they say or do, 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:05.120 and I'm just curious, have you guys, madain decision about 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:09.560 backing off on political contributions to candidates not not. First 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.840 of all, you know, we haven't funded a lot of 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.560 you know that in the first place. Um. But the 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.280 bottom line is this, you know, we're gonna look at 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:23.960 things as we always have when not single issue type people. 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.280 You know, we we don't support based on the single 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:30.960 issue because you know, things are more complex than any 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.960 one issue. Okay, so Heven said that we'll we'll, we'll 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.440 study very carefully. But I can tell you right now, 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.960 if there is anyone that and there are few out 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:45.840 there that that have supported the you know, fragmentation of 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:50.720 our society that are encouraging um, you know, behaviors that 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:53.320 like we saw, then obviously they're not going to be 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:57.120 getting contributions um from me individually, are from the Carnival 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:01.359 Corporation more growning. One question, I want to ask you 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:04.440 what will be the ultimate cost of this year and 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.240 what big lesson have you learned this year that you're 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.720 gonna It's probably going to stay with you as a leader. 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:12.680 You know, it's been so many negative things that the 0:20:12.720 --> 0:20:16.520 thing that is positive that will stay with me is 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.399 how our guests know, our our job is, you know, 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:24.040 number one compliance environmental protection and health, safety and well 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.320 being of our guests, of the people in the communities 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.200 we touch, and of course our crew and our short 0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.479 side personnel. So that's not job one, and we do 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.680 that so we can then exceed guests expectations by giving 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.480 them a holiday. You know that that is their dream. 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:44.920 And so in that regard the comments we got, the letters, 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:49.160 the emails, that everything we got from guests asking about 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.680 our crew, caring about our crew, caring about the company. 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.359 Um that that human spirit which is so defining for 0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:00.080 our business, you know, getting that was so inspirational to me. 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.320 I mean, you know, someone brought tears guys because they're 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.320 so caring. Because the em where people business, where hospitality 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.840 business people remember on the cruise, they remember the people, 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.920 the other gifts, the crew, et cetera. And so that 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:16.879 is the big Yeah, I knew it, but seen at 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:21.600 outpourn in a moment of real challenge was so encouraging. 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:25.520 And our people work like crazy to take care of things, 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:29.360 and you know, so that that's my big takeaway. There's 0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:32.280 a bunch of negative things and all kinds of stuff. 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.520 You know, I like, I like focusing on the positive, Carol, 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:38.920 that was Arno Old Donald presidency of Carnival Corporation, head 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.520 of the world's largest cruise line operator. You've been listening 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.400 to Bloomberg Business Week Extra. Find more of our conversation 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.280 on our podcast feed downloaded at Bloomberg dot com, and 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.440 be sure to listen to our Bloomberg Business Week Daily 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.040 radio show, airing live Monday through Friday at two pm 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.560