1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,840
Speaker 1: O. This podcast has mature content and language that may

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:08,119
Speaker 1: not be appropriate for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

3
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: Episode five, if need be. After my relationship with Zach ended,

4
00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,119
Speaker 1: I realized that I didn't just need to share my

5
00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,200
Speaker 1: whole story with someone. I was ready to share my emotions.

6
00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,680
Speaker 1: My needs are a big part of who I am.

7
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,080
Speaker 1: When I actually looked at what I was sacrificing to

8
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,440
Speaker 1: be this cool girl that someone would want to date,

9
00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,199
Speaker 1: I realized that the cool girl wasn't real at all,

10
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:50,360
Speaker 1: and I wanted to be real. But that's scary. After

11
00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,720
Speaker 1: doing all this work trying to find acceptance for my identity,

12
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 1: what if my emotions get me rejected? That terrified me.

13
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 1: I am Emmy and this is Crumbs, my love story.

14
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,360
Speaker 1: It's a show about the things we settle for and

15
00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,800
Speaker 1: the bits of ourselves that make us who we are.

16
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:32,240
Speaker 1: Emmy o paonated Foodie and Adventure. Looking for a relationship

17
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,080
Speaker 1: after Zach, I spent a lot of time on dating apps,

18
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,160
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to practice voicing my needs. So as

19
00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,520
Speaker 1: I'm swiping and swiping through these profiles, I'm trying to

20
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 1: imagine if I can have a deep connection or a deep,

21
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,520
Speaker 1: meaningful conversation with these people and not just notice if

22
00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 1: they're fuckable or not, wondering if I can be vulnerable

23
00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 1: with them. I don't know what clue I'm really looking

24
00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:06,760
Speaker 1: for exactly. So I'm back on Tinder and I, you know,

25
00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,519
Speaker 1: I'm swiping, swiping, swiping, and I see this guy and

26
00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,800
Speaker 1: he's dressed in black. He's got a goatee, he's tall,

27
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,240
Speaker 1: dirty blonde hair in a Manton bun. He kind of

28
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:25,440
Speaker 1: looks like a Viking. He's so handsome in all his pictures.

29
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:30,959
Speaker 1: He's got the sweetest smile, and he was just very sexy.

30
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 1: And I swiped right, and as soon as I swiped right,

31
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:40,720
Speaker 1: it was like it's a match. So this guy's name

32
00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,839
Speaker 1: was Max, and he immediately asked me out on a date.

33
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,600
Speaker 1: He told me he wanted to get Mexican food. Bold move.

34
00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm Mexican and my standards from Mexican food

35
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 1: are pretty damn high. Well, he worked in the restaurant

36
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 1: business and he did choose well. So I'm driving through

37
00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,959
Speaker 1: the restaurant and I'm really excited and I'm stupidly texting

38
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,600
Speaker 1: my friend about how excited I was for the state.

39
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,240
Speaker 1: But there was a guy walking in front of me,

40
00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,640
Speaker 1: so I pumped on my brakes. Guy looked startled. I

41
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 1: look at him. We make eye contact, and it's Max,

42
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,360
Speaker 1: my date. He turned it into a joke, thank god,

43
00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,079
Speaker 1: And that just made the date feel like we were friends,

44
00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,400
Speaker 1: like we've been friends for a really long time. We

45
00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 1: were at that comfort level where I felt comfortable, like

46
00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,480
Speaker 1: putting my fork on his anchi la la, And you know,

47
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,920
Speaker 1: we just had a good conversation. He asked deep, meaningful questions,

48
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 1: said really smart, insightful things about mental health and both

49
00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,400
Speaker 1: being in recovery. Max came off as a smart guy

50
00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,280
Speaker 1: who had his ship together. He worked for a fancy

51
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,520
Speaker 1: pizza restaurant with locations all over the world, and he

52
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 1: said all these amazing things about me being myself and

53
00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 1: facing adversity. It seriously like the perfect date, and so

54
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 1: we talked about setting up a second date. But he's

55
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,359
Speaker 1: opening up a restaurant I don't know where, so it

56
00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:23,800
Speaker 1: has to wait till he gets back. So weeks passed

57
00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:29,360
Speaker 1: by and I don't hear from him. I'm like, Okay,

58
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 1: maybe I should reach out to him, but like, at

59
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:36,360
Speaker 1: what point is it too much? Right? So I just

60
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 1: texted him, and you know, he replied very short answers,

61
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 1: and then he replied the next things like I'm so

62
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 1: sorry I was so swamped at work yesterday and the dada,

63
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, no worries, you know, all good. He's like,

64
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: we'll figure out like a date for for dinner or something.

65
00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,359
Speaker 1: I think about A month passed by and I didn't

66
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 1: hear from him. So I'm at this place where I've

67
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,360
Speaker 1: already made a decision that I have to be more

68
00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,640
Speaker 1: vocal of my needs, of what I really want, and I,

69
00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,320
Speaker 1: like Max, I felt like I needed to talk to him.

70
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,520
Speaker 1: And the day came when I got up the courage.

71
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 1: It was a sobriety birthday, the same day as a

72
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,479
Speaker 1: friend of mine, So I started texting. I'm like, you

73
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,960
Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to call him. I don't know

74
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,240
Speaker 1: where I got that bright idea, because that's not my

75
00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,000
Speaker 1: m O. Like, I'm a text person, but I thought

76
00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,159
Speaker 1: it would be more personal. My heart's beating so fast,

77
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,039
Speaker 1: it's like boom boom, boom boom, and it goes straight

78
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,839
Speaker 1: to voice smail at the end of your message, hands

79
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,279
Speaker 1: if emmy, I just wanted to call and say happy birthday,

80
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 1: congratulations on six years of Sobriday. Um, that's an off

81
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 1: the milestone and I hope we have a great day.

82
00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,840
Speaker 1: And I hang, oh my god, what did I just do?

83
00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,440
Speaker 1: Isn't gonna think I'm clingy? Did? Did I just make

84
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 1: a fool out of myself? Fuck? I tried to forget

85
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 1: about it. I only had to wait one day and

86
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,359
Speaker 1: then I got a text, Hey, Amy, thank you so

87
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,560
Speaker 1: much for the birthday wishes. That was really really nice

88
00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,559
Speaker 1: of you. I'm actually not in the country. I'm opening

89
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,560
Speaker 1: up a restaurant in Asia, but I'd love to see

90
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 1: you when I get back. You guys can't see my face,

91
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,840
Speaker 1: but I'm like excited, you know, I'm like feeling like giddy,

92
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:51,000
Speaker 1: just reliving the experience. I was like, okay, you know,

93
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,920
Speaker 1: it's on again. And it's like I was right. Max

94
00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 1: is a nice guy. We started texting again, and we

95
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:07,719
Speaker 1: start following each other on Instagram and I see his stories,

96
00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,560
Speaker 1: he sees my stories. It's like we got an eye

97
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:21,800
Speaker 1: on each other. So I'm waiting around for this second day.

98
00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm going crazy because I'm texting him

99
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:27,800
Speaker 1: and then I'm not getting a reply, and I'm obsessing

100
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,120
Speaker 1: over that thought like he doesn't like me anymore, and

101
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 1: like you know, these thoughts of like not enoughness start

102
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,000
Speaker 1: creeping up. So there's ups and downs, and I get

103
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: this adrenaline restaurant I hear from him, and then it stops,

104
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,400
Speaker 1: and then I get a one word answer, and I'm like,

105
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,280
Speaker 1: what the hell does that mean? What is he saying?

106
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:48,080
Speaker 1: It's like it's crazy, because when it's up, it's up.

107
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,720
Speaker 1: When it's down, it's really down. Like this is insane.

108
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 1: Why do I have to walk around with this discomfort,

109
00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,480
Speaker 1: this doubt, this obsession. I treat dating like a drug,

110
00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,600
Speaker 1: waiting for a text, like I'm waiting for a hit.

111
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,640
Speaker 1: I got so excited when I found somebody that I

112
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 1: clipped with, who seemed to accept me for me, who

113
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,160
Speaker 1: encouraged me to be me. Each text from him is

114
00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,320
Speaker 1: a high. But when the text back doesn't come, my

115
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:27,200
Speaker 1: self esteemed just evaporates. My mind goes straight to all

116
00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,440
Speaker 1: the things that I've struggled to accept about myself. So

117
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,120
Speaker 1: just sitting alone with my phone and my thoughts is

118
00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,280
Speaker 1: not good. But as bad as it back and forth

119
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,800
Speaker 1: with Max was, it was still better than what I

120
00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,640
Speaker 1: went through when I first transitioned. When I was trying

121
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,960
Speaker 1: to find the right dating scene. Online dating was becoming

122
00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,960
Speaker 1: a problem, but early on I didn't even know where

123
00:08:51,960 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: to start. When I first started my transition, I had

124
00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,199
Speaker 1: met a girl at the clinic where I would go

125
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:12,160
Speaker 1: get my hormones, and this girl was very friendly, and

126
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,240
Speaker 1: I felt like, Okay, here's my first trans woman friend.

127
00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,960
Speaker 1: She had been in her transition for longer than I had,

128
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,560
Speaker 1: and she was kind of showing me the ropes kind

129
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 1: of in terms of where to go out. She invited

130
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,400
Speaker 1: me to these parties called the Pink Parties I think

131
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,520
Speaker 1: an They were held once a month in this like

132
00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 1: kind of old office space. It wasn't a very nice place.

133
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,840
Speaker 1: There wasn't decorated like a bar or like a club

134
00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:45,600
Speaker 1: or anything. They would just turn off the lights, put

135
00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 1: on some DJ lights and and have a good time.

136
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,680
Speaker 1: And this was a place where a lot of trans

137
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,560
Speaker 1: women would just come together. So I remember my first

138
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,959
Speaker 1: time that I walked into this party. I was so nervous, right,

139
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,880
Speaker 1: I remember just circling around the block and just contemplating

140
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,960
Speaker 1: whether I wanted to be a part of this or not.

141
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,559
Speaker 1: This was my first real outing in transition, so I

142
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:19,760
Speaker 1: wasn't sure what to expect. When I walked into this

143
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 1: pink party and started meeting some of the other girls

144
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:26,959
Speaker 1: in the trans community, I felt like a sense of community.

145
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,520
Speaker 1: No that's not true. I felt the sense of a

146
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: potential community, because when I walked in, I didn't feel

147
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:39,679
Speaker 1: a woman fuzzy. I actually felt really intimidated because you

148
00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:44,480
Speaker 1: had like these gorgeous women just standing around, and I

149
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,920
Speaker 1: felt like I was lost, right, I didn't look anything

150
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,880
Speaker 1: like them, like I was in the beginning stages of

151
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,280
Speaker 1: my transition, and I just started like always comparing myself.

152
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,520
Speaker 1: I remember these two girls walked in at one point

153
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,040
Speaker 1: and they walked straight into the bar. They look so perfect.

154
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 1: They looked like barbies. They had like this porcelain skin,

155
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 1: this like long beautiful hair, beautiful breasts, small waist big.

156
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 1: But when I saw this women, I was like I

157
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,840
Speaker 1: wanted to look like them, because when they walked in,

158
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:24,320
Speaker 1: everyone's head just turned. I started building this false idea

159
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:30,000
Speaker 1: of what I had to look like. I had a

160
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 1: warped frame of mind in which I thought that that's

161
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: what beauty looked like, right, And all I wanted in

162
00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,600
Speaker 1: my entire life was just to be beautiful and to

163
00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:45,719
Speaker 1: be seen as a beautiful woman. So when I was

164
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,680
Speaker 1: introduced to them, I was just, you know, very shy

165
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,960
Speaker 1: and very quiet. They were nice, but they weren't like

166
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 1: engaging with me. They weren't dying until I get to

167
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,960
Speaker 1: know me. You know, I had my one friend who

168
00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:01,120
Speaker 1: was super cool and super friendly, and you know, I

169
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,479
Speaker 1: guess that was enough for me at the time. Everyone's

170
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,560
Speaker 1: having a good time, They're dancing, their drinking, and I

171
00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 1: just want to be a part of this. These are

172
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,040
Speaker 1: women that I can be friends with and hang out

173
00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 1: with and learn from. And then all of a sudden

174
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:23,439
Speaker 1: men started showing up. They would just like walk around

175
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,680
Speaker 1: and look at the girls and just you know, give

176
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:32,160
Speaker 1: them that head to toe look. The energy totally shifted

177
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,600
Speaker 1: when the men came into the to the party. I

178
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,360
Speaker 1: don't even know how to describe the way like some

179
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 1: men look at you just automatically makes you feel like

180
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 1: so objectified and a fetish And that wasn't something I

181
00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:54,360
Speaker 1: experienced before transition, So this was very new to me. Eventually,

182
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,160
Speaker 1: somebody approached me, They're like, hey you, what's your name? Um,

183
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,600
Speaker 1: where are you from? What are you doing tonight? Who

184
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:08,440
Speaker 1: are you here with? I'm still very uncomfortable in my

185
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 1: own skin because I'm comparing myself to every beautiful woman

186
00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 1: that's around me, and I don't feel like I look

187
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:23,960
Speaker 1: like them, And I just feel like very uncomfortable and

188
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to guys like not. I'm

189
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:31,320
Speaker 1: not ready for this. So when this man approached me

190
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,360
Speaker 1: and started talking to me and asking me questions, I

191
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 1: remember just feeling cornered and so uncomfortable. I'm not really

192
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,440
Speaker 1: attracted to this man, Like he's taking interest to me.

193
00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:47,600
Speaker 1: What if he wants to buy me a drink? I

194
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,679
Speaker 1: don't drink um. What if he wants to go home

195
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:56,559
Speaker 1: with me? I'm not ready for that. And then he asked, so,

196
00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,160
Speaker 1: what's your donation right? And I'm like, what what do

197
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,640
Speaker 1: you mean? He's like, well, how much do you charge?

198
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't charge anything. And then

199
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,079
Speaker 1: I realized that that sounded like really stupid. But I

200
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,680
Speaker 1: wasn't there for sex work. I was there to find

201
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,160
Speaker 1: a community and have a good time. But this man

202
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,960
Speaker 1: thought I was a sex worker. Why maybe because I

203
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 1: was standing alone in a corner. I don't know. It

204
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: just felt like this bubble had burst. I just wanted

205
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:39,600
Speaker 1: to go home. It became very clear to me that

206
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,760
Speaker 1: this was not a place where men come to find

207
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,960
Speaker 1: a genuine connection with a trans woman. No, no, sorry,

208
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 1: this was a place where men would come specifically to

209
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 1: hook up with trans women. This room was a complete

210
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:59,320
Speaker 1: fetishization room. I wanted to be seen as a beautiful woman,

211
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,160
Speaker 1: and in that room that's not how I felt at all.

212
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to try flirting. I wanted to have that

213
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,360
Speaker 1: sense of validation, and I wanted to be admired because

214
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 1: that wasn't happening in my regular world. I went to

215
00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,800
Speaker 1: one other pink party, and then I started going out

216
00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 1: to other bars that trans women frequent in. There was

217
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 1: a specific bar in San Diego that is known to

218
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,360
Speaker 1: be a bar where you know, trans women go. And

219
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,560
Speaker 1: it's a little hole in the wall bar that smells

220
00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 1: like pists and alcohol. Like the vibe is just like,

221
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 1: let's hook up. That's the vibe that you get Wesson

222
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 1: as you walk in. So you know, I'm at this

223
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,040
Speaker 1: bar and this cute guy comes up to me and

224
00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,920
Speaker 1: starts talking to me, and I, you know, tell my name.

225
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,840
Speaker 1: He offers spye me a drink, I take a diet code,

226
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 1: and we're just like talking we're getting to know each

227
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: other and he is cute, so like, if he has

228
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:12,840
Speaker 1: to go home with me, I'm going to take him

229
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,280
Speaker 1: home with me. Sure enough, he says, should we go

230
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 1: back to your place. We drive separately back to my house.

231
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 1: I go into my apartment. I take my hat, heels off,

232
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 1: and he knocks on the door. I opened the door

233
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 1: and he comes in. He has a backpack with him,

234
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,600
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, I hope he doesn't think

235
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,520
Speaker 1: he's spending the night, because that's not going to happen.

236
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,960
Speaker 1: So then, you know, we started talking and all of

237
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,400
Speaker 1: a sudden, he's like starting to feel me up. Then

238
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,360
Speaker 1: we make out a little bit, and all of a sudden,

239
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 1: he said, I want to show you something. I was

240
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: like okay. He's like I'll be right back, and he

241
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,200
Speaker 1: goes into the rest room with his backpack. When he

242
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 1: comes out, he stands in the doorway and he's wearing

243
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:08,200
Speaker 1: these big, shiny pattern leather boots and he's holding a whip.

244
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:15,160
Speaker 1: My reaction was the sort of laugh like I've never

245
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,159
Speaker 1: seen anything like this before. And he's like, get on

246
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:24,160
Speaker 1: your knees and fucking lick my boots. Then he walks

247
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,760
Speaker 1: over to me with this scary look in his eyes.

248
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,359
Speaker 1: Then he starts telling me these really scary stories in

249
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,800
Speaker 1: my ear about violence and murder. I'm just like, I

250
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 1: want you to leave, and he's like, aren't you having fun?

251
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,359
Speaker 1: And I said, no, I'm not having fun. You know,

252
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 1: I had to like literally get him out of my

253
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:58,680
Speaker 1: apartment because he's scared me. What about me made him

254
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,520
Speaker 1: think that he could act out this weird kink with me?

255
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: He never asked me. I never indicated that I was

256
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 1: into it. I felt like what I wanted didn't really matter.

257
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,280
Speaker 1: That was the last time that I went to that bar.

258
00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 1: So I thought maybe I can protect myself better online.

259
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: But then, you know, I got on a dating site.

260
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 1: It wasn't too long before I would get the messages

261
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 1: from guys no like hey, first time, you're here looking

262
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:50,119
Speaker 1: to experiment first time? Or who's curious? Or are you

263
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,120
Speaker 1: just street? I hooked that with some guys that I've

264
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 1: met online, and sometimes it felt good to be with them,

265
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 1: but other times I thought really crappy, especially when they

266
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: left like it was done and I was just like

267
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 1: used and it was over and I'd never hear from

268
00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 1: them again. I am looking for community. I wanna like

269
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,359
Speaker 1: fit in somewhere, And the price I have to pay

270
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 1: for this community is being hyper sexualized um and seen

271
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:27,919
Speaker 1: as a fetish, seen as a taboo. It puts me

272
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: in this place of like, I'm only good for this right,

273
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,040
Speaker 1: I'm only good for sex. I'm only good to fulfill

274
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,679
Speaker 1: like this man's fetish and fantasy. They're not really like

275
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,679
Speaker 1: getting to know emmy, Like they give a funk what

276
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:50,959
Speaker 1: my name is. But where is a safe space for me?

277
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 1: Where can I go to let my guard down a

278
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,679
Speaker 1: little bit and find myself? It felt like there was

279
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 1: nowhere for me. Myself esteem was totally dependent on people

280
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 1: who didn't even care who I was. It only really

281
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 1: changed for me over time as I got further in

282
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 1: my transition. When I looked in the mirror and saw

283
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: someone that I recognized, I felt like I could stand

284
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 1: up for that person, I could say what I wanted.

285
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,560
Speaker 1: But no matter how strong I try to make myself,

286
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 1: my self esteem feels fragile. So here's why I'm telling

287
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 1: you about Max Because in lots of ways I was

288
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 1: in this place where I felt stronger, bolder, I gave

289
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,959
Speaker 1: myself permission to have needs. But in other ways, I

290
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 1: was just so dependent on Max's interest in me. He's

291
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: left me on this like sigh, cool of Like, I mean,

292
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: he's kind of ghosted me a few times, yet his

293
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 1: text message comes in and I'm still excited to hear

294
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 1: from him, right that I don't even have negative thoughts

295
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:17,040
Speaker 1: about him ghosting me, and Max kept confusing me. He

296
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 1: texted me after weeks of silence about that second date,

297
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:29,719
Speaker 1: and he finally fucking set a date. So we get

298
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: to the restaurant that I chose, and it's a really

299
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 1: nice restaurant. We're sitting outdoors, there's like, you know, fire

300
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: going next to us, and he just starts asking me

301
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 1: about life, right, and I asked him, like, hey, I

302
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: have a question for you. It's like, what's up? And

303
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: I asked him, so I knew that going out with

304
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: the woman who's transgender was not something that was on

305
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: your radar. Why did you just I too go on

306
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 1: a date with me? And he looked at me, He's like,

307
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 1: I just saw you as you know, a beautiful woman.

308
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: And I guess I've always been attracted to like people

309
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 1: who have like adversities, who overcome adversities. And we just

310
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: started talking about you know, my journey as a trans woman.

311
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 1: He's so interested in like the social stigmas that I've faced.

312
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 1: So I was really encouraging, you know, after all these

313
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 1: ups and downs, it seemed like it was funny, like

314
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 1: on a positive. So while the waitress goes and gets

315
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 1: the check, I excuse myself to go to the restroom,

316
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 1: and I pulled the waitress over to the side. I'm like,

317
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,800
Speaker 1: I give her my credit card like here, like I

318
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: want to pay for it. He gets kind of awkward

319
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: when he finds out, like maybe he's joking about being

320
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: mad at me. Maybe not. I mean, it was a

321
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 1: sobriety birthday dinner and it just felt like a good idea.

322
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: I think he was touched. He was acting suit when

323
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: he took me home. So we get to my apartment

324
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 1: and then he just starts with small conversation. He asked

325
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 1: me like my apartment's like and how long I've been

326
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: living here? And I'm like, are those cues that he

327
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 1: wants to come in and look at my apartment? I

328
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: didn't know. I couldn't figure it out, Like if I

329
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 1: would have combined him to come in, would he have

330
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 1: taken that the wrong way? And think that I was like,

331
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, trying to get in bed with him.

332
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,159
Speaker 1: I didn't want to risk it, Like, I didn't want

333
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: to fund this up, so I just said up, goodbye,

334
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 1: and you know, he leaned over. He gave me a

335
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: kiss on the cheek. I gave him a kiss on

336
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: the cheek, big hug, and he said, I'll talk to

337
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: you soon. O. So one extra thing here. I noticed

338
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: that this stranger, this girl from Long Beach, had been

339
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: watching my Instagram stories for a few weeks in a row,

340
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: and the only thing we had in common was that

341
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: Max followed her. So I obviously started getting really curious,

342
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: and of course I start reading into it, right. I

343
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: start thinking of every possible scenario. Does Max have a girlfriend?

344
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 1: Are they just hooking up? Or is this a jealous

345
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 1: X who's stalking him. I had never seen her on

346
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: any of his posts or any of his stories. I

347
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 1: could have just kept worrying about it forever, but after

348
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,959
Speaker 1: this amazing date, I felt like I deserved to not

349
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 1: be anxious about it. So I texted Max, Hey, do

350
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 1: you know this girl question Mark. I don't know who

351
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: she is, but for some reason, she keeps looking at

352
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: my stories and I noticed you follow her like, who

353
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 1: is this? No reply I didn't hear from Max again, Like, ever,

354
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: how did I funck this up by asking him who

355
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: this chick was? Did that make him think that I

356
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: was crazy? Was he turned off by this? Was he

357
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 1: turned off because I paid for dinner? Did he feel

358
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: that that emasculated him? What did I do wrong? What

359
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 1: did I do that turned him off to the idea

360
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: of dating me. I thought that I was communicating. I

361
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: thought I could express myself freely without judgment. I felt

362
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: like he had given me that permission and to just

363
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: be myself trans and all. And so when I start

364
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: being my authentic self and embracing my identity, I I'm

365
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 1: vocal about what I'm thinking and feeling. And then it

366
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: was like, oh, never mind. I didn't like that. I

367
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: felt insecure all over again. So for a long time,

368
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: I kept replaying like each scenario in my head and

369
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: just really, you know, analyzing every text that I had

370
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: sent him, every conversation that we had, just to see

371
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: where it is that I had gone wrong that turned

372
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: him off right, And I was looking for my faults

373
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: when in reality, there's nothing wrong with me. There have

374
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: to be relationships out there were expressing myself leads to

375
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: less in security and not more, where my full needs

376
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: are embraced, where I'm not disregarded or ignored because I

377
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: have feelings or boundaries. There are relationships out there where

378
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: I can feel wanted or desired without being fetishized. Where

379
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: I'm not just accepted as a whole person, but treated

380
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 1: like one. That requires a lot of respect from the

381
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: other person and I respect for myself. To be honest,

382
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,199
Speaker 1: There's only one person in my life that's made me

383
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: feel that way, and you haven't met him yet. Crumbs

384
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: is the product sin of iHeart Radios, Michael Dura podcast Network,

385
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: and in association with Children Horse. It's produced by Margaret

386
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:12,120
Speaker 1: Catcher and and edited by Jazzmin Rometo and Alex Fumeto.

387
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,919
Speaker 1: Original music by Daniel Peter Schmidt and engineering by Manuel

388
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Gisvances and Conno Burn for I Heeart,

389
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: Alex Bumeto for Children Horse, Joshua Weinstein, Jazzmindrometro and and

390
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 1: me Emio LEA special thanks to Monissa Hendrix, Fernand Estrada

391
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 1: and Sara Mota. Listen to Crumbs on the I Heart

392
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,