1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Brainstuff, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey brain Stuff, 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Lauren Vogelbaum. Here all of Western philosophy, said the British 3 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: mathematician and philosopher Alfred North Whitehead is quote a series 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: of footnotes to Plato. This Greek philosopher, who started as 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: a young devotee of Socrates, laid the groundwork for more 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 1: than two millennia philosophical thought. Plato's dialogues, including Republic, are 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: required reading for every serious student of philosophy, and his 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: academy in Athens set the model for the modern university. 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: So who was this guy? Plato of Colitis was born 10 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 1: around four hundred and twenty eight b c. In the 11 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: waning days of the Golden Age of Athens. He met 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: Socrates as a young man and was a close follower 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: of this provocative street philosopher who confounded politicians and prostitutes 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: alike with his unrelenting questions, now known as the Socratic method. 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: Plato was a owned twenty years old when Athens lost 16 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: the disastrous Peloponnesian War to its rival Sparta. He served 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: briefly in the war. After considering a career in politics, 18 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: Plato grew Disenchanted by corrupt leaders and the tragic execution 19 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 1: of Socrates, his hero and mentor, Plato came to believe 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: that only right philosophy could end human suffering and ensure justice. 21 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: Plato turned his energies to education, studying Pythagorean mathematics and 22 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: traveling through Sicily, Italy, and Egypt. In his early thirties, 23 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: he returned to Athens and founded his academy in an 24 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: open air grove open to men and women. It drew 25 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: the best and brightest from the Greek speaking world to 26 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: learn mathematics and natural philosophy. Aristotle came there when he 27 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: was seventeen and stayed on to teach. The academy continued 28 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: for almost two centuries after Plato's death, closing in seventy 29 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: b c. E. Plato never married or had any children. 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: He died in his early eighties, but lives on in 31 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: his captivating prose and thought promo questions recorded in thirty 32 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 1: lively and challenging dialogues. Reading one of Plato's dialogues is 33 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: like eavesdropping on a fascinating, rambling conversation. The dialogues are 34 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: constructed like intellectual dramas, with Socrates often playing the main 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: character in them. Socrates teasingly interrogates applies answers out of 36 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: his fellow Athenians, revealing the allusiveness of simple truths. Plato's 37 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: early dialogues are heavily indebted to Socrates, who left no 38 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: writing of his own, but Plato's own ideas emerge in 39 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: middle and later works. Like Socrates, though, Plato doesn't beat 40 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: the reader over the head with his philosophy, but prefers 41 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: an indirect approach that tasks the reader with drawing their 42 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: own conclusions. We spoke with Eric Brown, a philosophy professor 43 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: at Washington University in St. Louis. He explained, in his dialogues, 44 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: Plato doesn't say, here are the answers and here are 45 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: the reasons, except them on my authority. Plato wants to 46 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: inspire people to do philosophy fee and think it through 47 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: for themselves. The dialogues do that. They leave a lot 48 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: of open questions. They don't settle everything. I think that's 49 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why Plato has found so many 50 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: readers over the centuries. He leaves a lot of the 51 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: work for the reader to do, which maybe we find inspiring. 52 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: If Plato could be said to have a central doctrine. 53 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: It's the concept of forms, the idea that the world 54 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: we perceive with our physical senses is flawed, but there 55 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: also exists a separate world of perfect, eternal forms beyond 56 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: our perception. Those perfect forms are abstract ideals like beauty, equality, goodness, being, 57 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: and knowledge. This core philosophy is called Platonism, and philosophers 58 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: who have ascribed to it over the millennia are known 59 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: as Platonists. Brown said Platonism is the idea that there 60 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: are truths, causes, or principles that are abstract and not 61 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: available to sense perception, but only to thought, and that 62 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: when we access these were in a better position to 63 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: understand the way the world is and in a better 64 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: position to live a good life. Two of the most 65 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: popular dialogues are Symposium and Feto. Symposium discusses love, including 66 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: what's come to be known as platonic love, a term 67 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: Plato never used and which is far more nuanced than 68 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: simply a non sexual relationship. A Plato distinguishes between divine 69 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: eros and vulgar eros. A divine eros is a love 70 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: that goes beyond physical attraction, which is vulgar eros to 71 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: supreme beauty or makes one think of spiritual things. Meanwhile, 72 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,559 Speaker 1: Feto explores the nature of the soul. However, the most 73 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: read of Plato's works is Republic. Brown said, it covers 74 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: so much ground. You get a little of Plato's thinking 75 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: about politics, a little bit about the soul, about what 76 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: it is to live a good life, what it is 77 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: to understand the world, how it is to teach, and 78 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: what teaching really is. In Republic, Plato puts forward a 79 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 1: number of bold posals, including the claims the ideal city 80 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: would be ruled by a class of virtuous male and 81 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 1: female philosopher kings. Brown thinks that Plato is clearly trying 82 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: to push his reader's philosophical buttons. He said Republic was 83 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: plainly written to be provocative. The idea that no city 84 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: is well governed unless it's ruled by a philosopher, it's nutty. 85 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: One of the most vivid and enduring passages in Republic 86 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: is socrates extended Allegory of the Cave. In the allegory, 87 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: a group of captives are chained up inside a dark 88 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: cave lit only by faint firelight. Their only knowledge of 89 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: the outside world are the shadows that play on the 90 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: cave walls and garbled bits of echoed conversation. One of 91 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: the captives manages to escape and discovers there's an entire 92 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: reality outside of the cave. The brightness of the sun 93 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: burns his eyes, but the pain is worth knowing the truth. 94 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: When he returns to the cave and offers to free 95 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: his fellow captives, they mock his interpretations of their beloved 96 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: shadows and decide to kill him. Here again, Plato is 97 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: returning to his notion of truth existing outside of our 98 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: limited perception. Brown believes that the cave allegory is specifically 99 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: talking about the true nature and function of education. Brown said, 100 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: real education is not being filled with information, it's a 101 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: transformation of your soul, a reorientation of your values. For Plato, 102 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: when you stop taking the world as it seems to you, 103 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: and when you stop believing other people's opinions on what's 104 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: valuable and you start searching for what's beyond those mere appearances, 105 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 1: that's when you're being educated. Brown teaches Plato every semester 106 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: at Washington University and says that students continue to have 107 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: their minds opened by Plato's dialogues, which challenge readers to 108 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: wrestle with some of the biggest questions, how to know 109 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: and how to live. Brown said, he asks questions that 110 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: are still worth asking, and he asks them in an 111 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: engaging and provocative way. That's still one of the best 112 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: literary representations of how to do philosophy or how to 113 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: get into doing philosophy. For those two reasons, he will 114 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: always matter. Today's episode was written by Dave Ruse and 115 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: produced by Tyler Clay. For more on this and lots 116 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: of other curious topics, is it how stuff works dot com. 117 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: Brain Stuff is production of iHeart Radio. More podcasts on 118 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 119 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.