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Speaker 1: A quick note, this episode contains mention of suicide. Please

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Speaker 1: listen with caution and care. On the night of February

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Speaker 1: twenty fifth, nineteen ninety eight, a mother and her two

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Speaker 1: children were asleep in their home outside of Midland, Texas.

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Speaker 1: While they slept, a fire broke out in the house.

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Speaker 1: Driving home from work, Butch Martin saw the flames from

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Speaker 1: the road as they approached.

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Speaker 2: We get up on the top of the hill and

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Speaker 2: I see a big black cloud of smokes. That's man

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Speaker 2: that looks like my house man. And then when we

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Speaker 2: got closer, I saw that it was my house.

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Speaker 1: Butch's girlfriend, Marsha Pool, and their two children, Brady and Kristen,

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Speaker 1: died in the fire, and the subsequent investigation led an

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Speaker 1: innocent man to be condemned to prison for life.

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Speaker 2: You know, part of me says, I don't care what

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Speaker 2: no way he thinks. But I do care. You know,

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Speaker 2: all is the truth should be not the truth. I

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Speaker 2: am Booch Martin. I've been in cars for him since

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Speaker 2: August ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: From Love of for Good This is wrongful conviction with

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Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling today Butch Martin Garland Leon Martin, who goes

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Speaker 1: by Butch was born in Odessa, Texas, on September fifteenth,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two, to Buddy and Nancy Martin. Butch was

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Speaker 1: one of five children. When he was young, family moved

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Speaker 1: to nearby Midland, Texas, where he and his siblings were raised.

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Speaker 2: That's right. We lived out on a farm off seventeen

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Speaker 2: eighty eight head every top animal you can think of,

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Speaker 2: you know, pigs, goats, sheep, turkeys, geese, peacock. That's great.

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Speaker 1: Butch rode horses and motorcycles and loved to drag race.

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Speaker 3: He's the wildest of a bunch, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: This is Butch's little sister, Heather.

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Speaker 3: Everybody loved him, everybody. I mean, he was very outgoing.

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Speaker 3: He was the type to give his shirt off his

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Speaker 3: back for anybody. He would help anybody in need.

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Speaker 1: And not only that.

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Speaker 3: He's funny. He's hilarious, definitely. I mean, he has his

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Speaker 3: moments and he can be serious, but for the most part,

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Speaker 3: he's pretty funny and he likes to make people laugh.

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Speaker 1: In fact, his offbeat sense of humor is the source

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Speaker 1: of one of Heather's favorite memories of Butch.

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Speaker 3: He was in a motorcocle accident and he broke both

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Speaker 3: of his legs, so he was in a wheelchair for

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Speaker 3: a while. So his thing was, you know, he was

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Speaker 3: going to learn to ride wheelies in his wheelchair. Well,

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Speaker 3: you know, he's cruising along showing off, you know, doing

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Speaker 3: his little wheelies and stuff. He ended up tipping over

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Speaker 3: backwards and he couldn't get up because his legs weren't broke.

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Speaker 3: And I was laughing at him because he was trying

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Speaker 3: to show off, and then we both started laughing, and

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Speaker 3: I couldn't get him up because we're both laughing so hard.

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Speaker 4: He makes light of every situation.

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Speaker 1: After Butch graduated high school, he took a job in

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Speaker 1: the oil field. He had taken vocational welding classes in

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Speaker 1: school and made a good living as a welder. But

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Speaker 1: then the oil industry lost traction.

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Speaker 2: I took off and a friend of mine had a

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Speaker 2: recovery company that he repossessed vehicles and everything, everything from canning, copiers,

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Speaker 2: a baby grand piano, We reported everything.

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Speaker 1: Butch was mobile, traveling all over Texas doing the repossession

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Speaker 1: work and making good money on it. He says he

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Speaker 1: was living the life. It was during this time that

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Speaker 1: Butch also got married and had a son, Parker Chase.

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Speaker 2: We were all married like three years. I really didn't

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Speaker 2: even want to marry or I told my homeway the way,

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Speaker 2: you know, we need to just keep driving, you know,

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Speaker 2: and he's going, I'm stupid, you're going back.

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Speaker 1: Needless to say that marriage didn't work out. Butch continued

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Speaker 1: working and he would also go out partying. He says

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Speaker 1: he was a ladies man and eventually he met the one.

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Speaker 1: So how did you meet Marcia?

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, my buddies took me to a derby where,

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Speaker 2: you know, five gangcocks roosters, and it was a little

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Speaker 2: get together. There After it got dark and she was

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Speaker 2: sitting on a store in the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: Marcia Pool was twenty years old. She had just had

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Speaker 1: her son, Brady, who was with her at the gathering.

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Speaker 2: And I saw that she was drinking tequila.

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Speaker 1: Butch asked Marcia for a tequila shot, but instead she

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Speaker 1: handed him her baby son to Holt, and Butch was smitten.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I knew right there, and I said in love

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Speaker 2: with her. Man. She was cool man, totally cool.

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Speaker 1: After that, Butch and Marsha were inseparable. Despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that Butch was twelve years older, it didn't matter to them.

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Speaker 1: They wanted to have a life together and they did.

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Speaker 2: We did everything together with I took her to a

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Speaker 2: bunch of concerts and she was like a grooby, little

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Speaker 2: hippie chick. We were so great together.

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Speaker 1: Eventually, Butch and Marsha moved in together. Butch was over

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Speaker 1: the moon happy when he found out they were going

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Speaker 1: to have a kid. By that point, Butch was also

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Speaker 1: a father figure to Marcia's son, Brady, whom he adored,

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Speaker 1: and Brady worshiped him too.

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Speaker 2: Bady would be on the front porch every day waiting

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Speaker 2: on me. I I'll go with you. I'm go on,

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Speaker 2: go on go, And if I wasn't paying attention, he

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Speaker 2: would try to climb the fence to get to me.

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Speaker 2: You know, I looked over every one time and he

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Speaker 2: was hanging upside down by his boodhist booty got caught

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Speaker 2: and he's looking at me. But he ain't screaming or nothing.

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Speaker 2: I'm like.

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Speaker 1: In June of nineteen ninety six, Butch and Marcia's daughter,

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Speaker 1: Kristin Ray was born, and Butch really wanted to make

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Speaker 1: the family official with Marcia.

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Speaker 2: I kept begging her to marryment. She said no, I'm

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Speaker 2: just done things so we never got married. That was

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Speaker 2: all my only love that I've ever been here. I

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Speaker 2: loved him more than anything or ever ever will again ever.

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Speaker 1: On February twenty fifth, nineteen ninety eight, Butch and Marsha

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Speaker 1: were at home when he got a call from his

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Speaker 1: friend Stacy, who had a construction business. He said he

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Speaker 1: knew a guy who wanted a fence put up and

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Speaker 1: asked Butch to come along and help measure for it.

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Speaker 2: And about twenty minutes later our horn home. He lived

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Speaker 2: right down the street. I said, Hey, I'm leaving. I'll

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Speaker 2: be back in a couple hours. She said, oh, I

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Speaker 2: love you. I love you too, and that that's where

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Speaker 2: I live. And we went stopped.

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Speaker 1: Bought beard from there, they drove to the job site.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we had some beer in the truck and everything.

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Speaker 2: But we went in back yard and measured where he

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Speaker 2: was putting fences.

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Speaker 1: It was a normal relaxing evening. Butch out with a

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Speaker 1: friend and Marsha and the kids asleep at home. But

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Speaker 1: as Butch and his friend were headed back to his house,

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Speaker 1: he saw a highway patrol car pass them at top speed,

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Speaker 1: its lights flashing.

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Speaker 2: We get up on the top of the Shiel and

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Speaker 2: I see a big black cloud of smoke, and you

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Speaker 2: can tell that it's like a plastic like tires something

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Speaker 2: like that. Mainly, you know, it's just so dark, you know,

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Speaker 2: a grass fire. It is dark like that. That's man,

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Speaker 2: that looks like my house man. And then when we

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Speaker 2: got closer, I saw that it was my.

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Speaker 1: House and the house was engulfed in flames.

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Speaker 2: And before we got to the house, a bell and

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Speaker 2: I jumped out of the dror and started yelling, oh

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Speaker 2: where marshalled the kids? And I ran right up in there, Uh,

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Speaker 2: solid wall smoked. I tried to up open the front door.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't get the door. Pushed boots from the fucking door.

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Speaker 1: Butch couldn't get in the house and he couldn't breathe.

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Speaker 1: But he was desperate to save his family.

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Speaker 2: So I ran back out of smoke. I got some

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Speaker 2: married I ran right back in and I couldn't get

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Speaker 2: in the fuck out. Uh you know, it was fully

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Speaker 2: engulfed anyway, but you know I ran the third time

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Speaker 2: I came out and they tackled me and I han't

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Speaker 2: copy to it. Both both top cars.

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Speaker 1: Butch was frantic and the police had handcuffed him to

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Speaker 1: a car to keep him from running into the burning

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Speaker 1: house to save his family. They eventually got him in

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Speaker 1: a car and him down the street to a friend's

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Speaker 1: house to keep him out of danger, but determined to

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Speaker 1: get to Marsha and the kids. Butch knocked his friend

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Speaker 1: down and took off, running two miles back to his house.

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Speaker 2: And I ran the whole way back, and when I

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Speaker 2: came around the corner, Uh, there was people ever where

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Speaker 2: my mom and dad were there. Oh, there's people ever

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Speaker 2: were man.

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Speaker 1: Butch was instantly tackled again by the sheriff so he

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Speaker 1: wouldn't run into the fire.

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Speaker 2: He got on top of me. I was knee and

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Speaker 2: my neck, you know, the typical police hold, and I

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Speaker 2: couldn't breathe. My dad came up and he told me

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Speaker 2: it's gonna be all right. I said, it's not gonna

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Speaker 2: be right. I'll never see her again.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making

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Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 1: in the communities where they work and live. In light

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Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance and

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Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform.

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Speaker 1: The AIG pro Bono program provides free legal services and

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Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Busch was taken

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Speaker 1: to a hospital in nearby San Angelo, his hands severely burned.

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Speaker 1: By this point, it was clear his entire world, twenty

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Speaker 1: four year old Marsha, three year old Brady, and eighteen

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Speaker 1: month old Kristen, had died in the fire. He was

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Speaker 1: the only one in their family left. Deeply depressed, Butch

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Speaker 1: was transferred to a psychiatric hospital while he recovered from

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Speaker 1: his burns. About a week into his stay, the police

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Speaker 1: came to visit him.

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Speaker 2: I had lost everything. Well. They came into where I

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Speaker 2: had left. I had the clothes I had on. I

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Speaker 2: was like, what and I have washed lot. Have you

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Speaker 2: watched the season? I said, yeah, what is wrong at you know?

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Speaker 1: Butch didn't know why the police needed the clothes he

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Speaker 1: had worn that day, but he gave them to the

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Speaker 1: officers anyway. The last of everything Butch owned and loved

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Speaker 1: was gone. Finally, when Butch was well enough, he was

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Speaker 1: taken to the remains of his house to look for

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Speaker 1: anything unusual. Sergeant Terry Lowe from the Sheriff's department walked

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Speaker 1: him through the wreckage.

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Speaker 2: So we'll go through all the rooms. And I noticed

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Speaker 2: there's some like fluorescent orange spray paint by Christian's crib.

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Speaker 2: And I asked him, is that where Christin was? That's

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Speaker 2: where her crib was, right there in that corner right there,

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Speaker 2: I say, is that where you found her body? And

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Speaker 2: he said is.

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Speaker 1: Marcia's body had been found lying against the door that

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Speaker 1: Butch had been trying to get into that night. Little

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Speaker 1: Brady was found on the floor nearby, and.

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Speaker 2: They say that Brady had got off the couch and

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Speaker 2: went to the love seat to I guess probably a

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Speaker 2: wake as my mom and she she she stood up

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Speaker 2: into a thermal layer or something like that and sends

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Speaker 2: her runs. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They imagining how they're deaths played out was horrific for Butch.

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Speaker 1: During the initial investigation, pathologist doctor David Hobblett said they

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Speaker 1: died of smoke inhalation and that they were alive when

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Speaker 1: the fire started. But then, in an unusual turn of events,

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Speaker 1: the state, wanting to argue that this was actually a homicide,

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Speaker 1: had all three bodies exhumed. Forensic anthropologists doctor Harold gil

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Speaker 1: King examined them. Gil King came to a different conclusion

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Speaker 1: than the pathologist had. He said that three year old

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Speaker 1: Brady had blunt forced injuries to his head and that

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Speaker 1: the injuries were inflicted prior to his death, further bolstering

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Speaker 1: the state's theory. The fire investigator also said he found

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Speaker 1: evidence of intentionally poured accelerants, suggesting someone started the fire

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Speaker 1: on purpose. Almost two months after the fire, Butch was

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Speaker 1: arrested for arson and the murder of his family. He

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Speaker 1: was indicted on April fifteenth, nineteen ninety eight. Not only

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Speaker 1: was Butch devastated by the charges, but also by the

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Speaker 1: fact that the sheriff who arrested him, Terry Lowe, with

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Speaker 1: someone Butch had known for years.

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Speaker 2: My sister played ball, softball and with his daughter, So

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Speaker 2: everybody knew the sheriff. You know, and you'll have to

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Speaker 2: as the town knows me and knows. There's no way

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Speaker 2: I would ever, and the other half think I'm so

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Speaker 2: crazy that I might have.

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Speaker 1: Naturally. This put Butch in a dark place. While awaiting trial,

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Speaker 1: he tried to kill himself.

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Speaker 2: I took two bottles of the ambience and sleeping pills

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Speaker 2: and valians of roaches. I took several bottles of pills

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Speaker 2: and that's when he found me of pump stomach. I'll

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Speaker 2: be there with him dead than Roger Rod now.

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Speaker 1: Butch went to trial on April fourteenth, nineteen ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: District Attorney Al Shari was the prosecutor. His theory was

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Speaker 1: that Butch knocked out Marcia and Brady, put Kristin in

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Speaker 1: her crib, and then set the fire before leaving with

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Speaker 1: his friend for the evening. He said Butch was angry

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Speaker 1: with Marcia because she was going to leave him with

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Speaker 1: no life or homeowner's insurance. To claim this would have

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Speaker 1: been Butch's only motive. Da Shore called Marcia's mother to

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Speaker 1: testify and support of this theory. She told the court

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Speaker 1: that Butch and Marcia had a tumultuous relationship, and Butch's

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Speaker 1: friend Stacy, who was with him the night of the fire,

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Speaker 1: also testified that Butch had been acting suspiciously. Something Butch

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Speaker 1: had said as the patrol car flew by them that

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Speaker 1: night along the lines of I hope they're not going

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Speaker 1: to my house was brought up and used as evidence

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Speaker 1: of guilt. Shari said that meant that Butch already knew

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Speaker 1: it was his house.

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Speaker 5: The entire case is proof of how when you're looking

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Speaker 5: to paint a bull's eye around somebody, you can do

255
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,240
Speaker 5: it right. If you think that this guy is guilty,

256
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,400
Speaker 5: then something like I hope that fire truck's not going

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Speaker 5: to my house suddenly takes on a.

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Speaker 1: Whole new meaning. This is Alison Clayton.

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Speaker 5: I am the deputy director of the Innosonce Project of

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Speaker 5: Texas and the adjunct professor of the Innocence Clinic at

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Speaker 5: Texas Tech University School of Law.

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Speaker 1: Allison says, then when Shari called the original pathologist, doctor

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Speaker 1: David Hobblett, to testify, well.

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Speaker 5: The pathologist gets on the stand and he says, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I found swelling in both the brains of marsh and

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Speaker 5: of Brady. And to me, this swelling indicates blunt force

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Speaker 5: trauma inflicted prior to the time of death. That was

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Speaker 5: out of nowhere for the defense because that's not what

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Speaker 5: the report said.

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Speaker 1: Remember, in the original report, doctor Hoblett said that he

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Speaker 1: believed they died from smoke inhalation, But now at trial

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Speaker 1: he said something totally different.

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Speaker 5: At some point in there, the pathologist changed his mind.

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Speaker 5: He changed his opinion his testimony changed to match what

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Speaker 5: the anthropologist was going to say.

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Speaker 1: The forensic anthropologist, doctor Gil King, testified to finding blunt

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Speaker 1: force trauma after the exhumation.

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Speaker 5: The anthropologist says, you know, this is the kind of

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Speaker 5: trauma that you could expect to be inflicted from a

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Speaker 5: closed fist at a full arm swing. I mean, just

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Speaker 5: terrible testimony.

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Speaker 1: And the States fire experts Dale Little and John Corn

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00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,120
Speaker 1: testified that they believed the fire started in the bedroom

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Speaker 1: from intentionally poured accelerant. This was based on samples from

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Speaker 1: the home that came back positive for two chemicals, norpar

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00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 1: and hydroparaferated kerosene. These chemicals were believed at the time

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Speaker 1: to only be present in accelerants used for setting fires.

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Speaker 1: They also said they found what they called poor patterns

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Speaker 1: where the accelerant would have theoretically been I mean.

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Speaker 5: Back in the nineties and early two thousands, fire investigators

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00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,160
Speaker 5: would go through a crime scene and they would say, hey,

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Speaker 5: it looks like there was something poured on this floor

293
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Speaker 5: right here, and then everything burned down to the concrete.

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Speaker 5: So they thought that they could go through and recognize

295
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 5: these patterns and concrete of burned structures and say, ah,

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Speaker 5: that's where they had poured accelerant.

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Speaker 1: But Butch had hired private attorneys Clifford Hardwick and John Cook,

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Speaker 1: and they put on a rigorous defense. Their fire experts

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00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 1: refuted the findings of the prosecution. Forensic scientist Doug Byron

300
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 1: said it wasn't surprising that those chemicals were found in

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00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,680
Speaker 1: the home because common ingredients in numerous household products. Their

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00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 1: presence does not mean a fire was intentionally set. Carter Roberts,

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00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 1: a certified fire investigator, disputed the so called poor patterns.

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00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 1: He maintained that the fire started on the back porch,

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00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 1: not in the bedroom, and that a faulty extension cord

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00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: might have been to blame.

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00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 5: They had a deep freeze out on their back porch

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00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,640
Speaker 5: and they had plugged in this old time deep freezer

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00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 5: with an indoor extension cord that they had run from

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00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,480
Speaker 5: the back porch through the back bedroom into the kitchen

311
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 5: to plug in above the stove, and that was their

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00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 5: theory is that that's probably a start of the fire.

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Speaker 1: Roberts said he believed States expert Dale Little was looking

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Speaker 1: for evidence of arson and disregarded potential fire hazards like

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00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: the extension cord Butch's defense team also called witnesses who

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00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 1: had been with Butch that night. They said they did

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00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,720
Speaker 1: not smell any un usual odors like lighter fluid or

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00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:06,479
Speaker 1: accelerant on Butch or on his clothes. And finally, they

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00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,560
Speaker 1: had forensic pathologists and medical examiner doctor Lloyd White review

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00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: the autopsies and photographs. Doctor White testified that not only

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00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: was there no indication of blunt force trauma, but that

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00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: brain swelling was actually common for deaths associated with fire

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Speaker 1: because of carbon monoxide poisoning. Despite all this, it was

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00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 1: not enough to convince a jury of reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, you have got

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00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,600
Speaker 5: horrific pictures of burned babies and their mama laying right

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Speaker 5: there at the front door. A terrible case, I mean

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00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 5: just a terrible case. And you've got scientific evidence from

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00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 5: a pathologist, from a forensic anthropologist, from arson scientists, and

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Speaker 5: of course you know it's very difficult to overcome that.

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Speaker 1: On April thirtieth, nineteen ninety nine, thirty six year old

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Speaker 1: Butch Martin was convicted of three counts of capital mare.

333
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: He was sentenced to three concurrent life sentences.

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Speaker 3: The media made my brother to out to be a

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Speaker 3: monster basically. You know, he's He's done a lot of

336
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Speaker 3: dumb stuff in his life, but he's not a murderer.

337
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Speaker 6: It's definitely one of the hardest things I've ever been through.

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Speaker 6: My brother has missed everything, you know, my I mean everything,

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Speaker 6: and it's just it's not fair.

340
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Speaker 2: It is not fair.

341
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Speaker 4: They didn't even give him the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: You know.

343
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Speaker 3: It's like it's like they they wanted him guilty right

344
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Speaker 3: from the from the get go, you know what I mean.

345
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Speaker 4: And then before I knew it, he was gone.

346
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Speaker 1: After his conviction, Butch was sent to a men's maximum

347
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: security prison in Texas to spend the rest of his life.

348
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 1: It was a tough place with tough prisoners. Butcher remembers

349
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: a time he got in a bad fight with some guys.

350
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Speaker 2: One of them made a comment about, oh, yeah, yeah,

351
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: the guy had a little barbecue, right. I don't see

352
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 2: him in the mountain. I didn't know at the time

353
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: that he was there, his brotherhood. I'm missing a bunch

354
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: of tea and you know, and they weren't pools.

355
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Speaker 3: It's hard for me to talk to him without crying.

356
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 3: And the whole time's going Heather stop, Heather Stop. I

357
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 3: can't cry. I can't cry, you know, And it's really sad,

358
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: you know that he just has to put on this

359
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 3: front and be a tough guy all the time. Twenty

360
00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: four to seven. I'm just ready for him to be

361
00:23:56,600 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 3: able to be himself again, you know, because that's not him,

362
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 3: That is.

363
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 2: Not him at all.

364
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 3: He is a good, tender hearted man and he deserves

365
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 3: to be able to be that man.

366
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: While in prison, Butch also lost access to his son,

367
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 1: Parker Chase. His ex wife had him sign papers giving

368
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: up his parental rights.

369
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 2: You know, I haven't talked to him since he was

370
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: a little kid.

371
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: So you don't have a relationship with him.

372
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,479
Speaker 2: No, I don't. But I get pictures of him all

373
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: the time. My sister has him on Facebook.

374
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: Butch has never stopped thinking about the life and family

375
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 1: he lost in the fire. He says he has nightmares

376
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 1: about it all the time.

377
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 2: Every day, every day when I wake up, I go

378
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 2: rocky running in the house. Time, let me get the house,

379
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,479
Speaker 2: you know, every day you when I wake up.

380
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: For years, Butch filed appeal after appeal to try to

381
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: overturn his conviction.

382
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: As I would say, we play the waiting game.

383
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: This is Butcher's sister, Heather.

384
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: Again, we would.

385
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 3: Wait and wait and wait, and then this would get

386
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 3: denied or you know, they wouldn't even you know, take

387
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 3: years just to read something, just to shut him down,

388
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: you know, and it was hard, you know, you get

389
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: your hopes up just to get basically your feet kicked

390
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 3: out from underneath you. Especially especially for my brother of course,

391
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: getting his hopes up thinking he's going to get to

392
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 3: come home, and then you know, something else happens.

393
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: Eventually, something else did happen, something Butch had been waiting for.

394
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: Alison Clayton and the Innocent Project of Texas wound up

395
00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,160
Speaker 1: taking on Butch's case in twenty seventeen. Did anything stand

396
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 1: out to you about the case immediately?

397
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 5: The use of arson science in the fire debris analysis

398
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 5: and the reliance on poor pattern science. I know from

399
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,399
Speaker 5: studies that were done in the early two thousands and

400
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 5: mid two thousands that our understanding of analyzing fire debris

401
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 5: has evolved.

402
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: First, Allison says that updated fire science affirms what the

403
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: defense's experts said at trial, that the chemicals found in

404
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: fire accelerants are also commonly found in homes.

405
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 5: They are in carpet, they're in building adhesive, they're in

406
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 5: receipt paper, they're in some clothing, we'll have it on them.

407
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:51,120
Speaker 1: They are just everywhere. And also, of course the poor patterns.

408
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 5: And I knew that poor pattern science had been entirely discredited,

409
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 5: especially for these big house fires, and that anytime you

410
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 5: see poor pattern, gigantic red flag.

411
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: Alison points to the many examples in this case of

412
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: so called evidence shape shifting to fit the state's narrative,

413
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 1: including doctor Hobblett revising his original assessment from death by

414
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: smoke inhalation to blunt force trauma.

415
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 5: If you think that he's guilty, then all of a sudden,

416
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 5: this fire debri analysis intentionally looking for something like everything

417
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 5: takes a different cast.

418
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: Right back in two thousand and two, before Alison came on,

419
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: Butch had another legal team working on his case. They

420
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: had already brought it to the state fire Marshal and

421
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: a scientific advisory committee for review.

422
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 5: Forensic pathologists, fire experts, fire chemists, all these different people,

423
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 5: and they look at the evidence in Butch's cases, and

424
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 5: these people understand the advancements that have been made by

425
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 5: that time. And the fire marshal comes out and writes

426
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 5: an opinion saying that you cannot say that this was

427
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 5: an intentionally set fire. He says that the cause of

428
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 5: the fire is undetermined, which is a big, big deal.

429
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: So when Alison came on the case, she already had

430
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: this information to work with, and in May of twenty

431
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 1: twenty two, she lined up her own experts for a

432
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: new hearing on the case in front of Judge David

433
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: g Rogers. Not only that new information had come to

434
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: light about the original pathologist, doctor Hoblett.

435
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 5: He's doing all kinds of stuff that as a doctor,

436
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 5: you're not supposed to be doing. He's running a pain

437
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 5: pill mill, right, He's just like doing scripts for all

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00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 5: kinds of things for people who don't need them. So

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00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 5: then the Feds come in and the FEDS arrest him.

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00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 5: All of that eventually ended up in him completely losing

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00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 5: his license to practice medicine.

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00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: One of the main witnesses to testify against him was

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00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: now completely discredited. This was huge for Butch's case. In fact,

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00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: every piece of evidence the state had used against him

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00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 1: had been discredited. Allison says that when all the new

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00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: evidence was presented.

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00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 5: You could fill the shift in the courtroom when the

448
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 5: judge and the prosecutor. I think really started to realize,

449
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 5: Oh my goodness, we got an innocent man.

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00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: Butch's father died while he was in prison. But his

451
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: mom got to sit in the courtroom and hear all

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00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: the evidence that will likely get her son out of prison.

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00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: She died just a month later. In the meantime, Butch

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00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: waits and thinks about what he'll do with his freedom,

455
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 1: if and when it comes. He says he liked to

456
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: drag race again and build some rental homes. He's excited

457
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: to finally bond with his nieces nephews. And now they're kids,

458
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of them.

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00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 7: Let's see, I have three daughters. My oldest daughter has

460
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 7: three daughters, and my middle daughter has a son and

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00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 7: a daughter. So he has one great nephew and four

462
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 7: great nieces.

463
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do with them when you're out?

464
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: Kidnap them and keep them.

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00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: But most of all, Butch just wants justice for the

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00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: family he lost.

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00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: I miss him so bad. You know, if there is

468
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: ever real I'm gonna to watch Marshall kids as she will.

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00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: If you want to help Butch, go to Innocence Texas

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00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: dot org and click on Take action next time on

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00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling Nancy Smith.

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00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: They said that you didn't take her daughter to school.

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00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 4: You took her daughter to a birthday party where you molested.

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00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: Her, and I'm like, what what are you talking about?

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00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. Please

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00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: support your local innocence organizations and go to the links

477
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: in our bio to see how you can help. I'd

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00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: like to thank our executive producers Jason Flamm and Kevin Wurtis,

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00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: as well as our senior producer, Annie Chelsea, producer Lyla Robinson,

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00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: and story editor Sonya Paul. The show is edited and

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00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,280
Speaker 1: mixed by Annie Chelsea, with additional production by Jeff Cliburn

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00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: and Connor Hall. The music in this production is by

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00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to

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00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at

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Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at wrong Conviction, as

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00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: well as at Lava for Good. On all three platforms,

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Speaker 1: you can also follow me on both Instagram and Twitter

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00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: at Maggie Freeling. Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling is a

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Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good. Podcasts in association with signal

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Speaker 1: company Number one