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Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com, slash Nancy, enter your own name.

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Speaker 1: Get started crime stories with Nancy Grace on sirius x

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Speaker 1: M Triumph Channel. I'm thirty two. Have you ever just

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Speaker 1: had a bad date and you know instinctively this is

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Speaker 1: not gonna work out. There's just something wrong. Don't know

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Speaker 1: what it is. They're pleasant enough, but it's just not

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Speaker 1: that's just not the right one. You just know, well,

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Speaker 1: what if that person turns out to be the freakiest

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Speaker 1: stalker you've ever met, that wants to quote bathe in

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Speaker 1: your blood. Think about it. Bathe in your blood. And

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Speaker 1: as you're watching happened to be watching your home surveillance

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Speaker 1: one day from work, you notice somebody's in your bathtub. Okay, problem,

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. That is exactly what happened. And Arizona woman,

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Speaker 1: it's really attractive. A thirty one year old Arizona woman,

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Speaker 1: Jacqueline Aids, allegedly sends sixty five thousand, sixty five thousand

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Speaker 1: text messages to a guy she dates one time straight

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Speaker 1: out to investigative reporter with Radar Online dot Com, our colleague,

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Speaker 1: Alexis ter Rest Chuck, Alexis, I want dated a guy

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Speaker 1: that wanted to pick out my clothes and would suggest

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Speaker 1: that I wear this necklace or that necklace. And he

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Speaker 1: could cook better than me, he could do everything arts

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Speaker 1: he better than me. He could set a table better

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Speaker 1: than me. Long story short, I thought it was a

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Speaker 1: little weird somebody wanted to pick out my clothes. Okay,

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Speaker 1: even that much bothered me. I cannot even imagine sixty

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Speaker 1: thousand texts. What happened? Alexis, Please tell me this person

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Speaker 1: is in jail. Yes, police finally arrested this crazy lady

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Speaker 1: because I used the word crazy quote because she actually

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Speaker 1: says I'm crazy. Here's the thing. She meets this man.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't even want us to know his name, unidentified man.

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Speaker 1: He they go on one date. They met. Blame him?

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Speaker 1: Do you blame him? How did they meet? Okay, what

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Speaker 1: we have zoomed forward to the first date? How did

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Speaker 1: they meet? They met on a dating app, Tinder bumble.

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Speaker 1: You know, you just swipe left, swipe right. Cute, let's

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Speaker 1: meet up? You send you send each other A couple

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Speaker 1: of text messages is the thing you do after you

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Speaker 1: meet on the side. So they met up. They had

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Speaker 1: one date. He was not interested. I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: go out with her ever. Again, fine, they move on.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden, she starts showing that she sends

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Speaker 1: actually a couple of text messages. Again, nothing outside of

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Speaker 1: the norm. You know, I thought it liked you. What's

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Speaker 1: going on? Now? She shows up at his house and

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Speaker 1: he gets really scared. He actually calls the police and says,

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Speaker 1: this lady that I went on one date with shows

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Speaker 1: up outside my house. The police come right away. She leaves,

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Speaker 1: and that is when the harassment starts. She starts sending

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Speaker 1: him up to five hundred text messages a day, so

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Speaker 1: she goes off. Her rocker allegedly said, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: do we know what the text messages say. I'm a

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Speaker 1: little interested in that. Okay, so five text messages a day.

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Speaker 1: This is not just for a week or anything. This

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Speaker 1: goes on for six months, six months. Okay, guys, let's

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Speaker 1: hear it from the horses mouth. Take him to listen

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Speaker 1: to Jacqueline Aids. I met him online. I was looking

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Speaker 1: for my healing angel. To the psychic I meant told

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Speaker 1: me I would meet a healing angel. I felt like

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Speaker 1: I met my soul meet and everything was just the

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Speaker 1: way it was, And I thought we would just do

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Speaker 1: what everybody else did and we would just like get

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Speaker 1: married and everything would be fine. But that's not what happened.

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Speaker 1: And you don't stop giving, even if you don't receive,

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Speaker 1: You all of a sudden received a lot. Okay, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, Alexis Dress Chuck Radar online dot com. You

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Speaker 1: didn't tell me anything about a psidekick, and you didn't

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Speaker 1: tell me anything about a healing angel. Hello, yep, so

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Speaker 1: that's what she said. You know, sometimes people have a

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Speaker 1: first date and they do fall in love and they

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Speaker 1: get married. That is rare. I I don't know anybody

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Speaker 1: where that has happened. But so she she goes insane.

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Speaker 1: She loves this guy, and you know, this is an Arizona.

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Speaker 1: This really really reminded me of Jody Arias, especially what

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Speaker 1: the same exact thought I thought of Jody Arias too,

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Speaker 1: who also gave a lot of freaky jailhouse interviews. Joining

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Speaker 1: me right now, and boy do we need a shrink.

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Speaker 1: Renowned psychologists out of New York Lauren Howard Lauren, why

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Speaker 1: did she think that they would just get married quote

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Speaker 1: like everybody else does after their first day. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's the hardest thing to do with people that, uh

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Speaker 1: a layman might identify as crazy. I mean, you hear

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Speaker 1: this story and you know you just think, okay, this

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Speaker 1: girl not. But the truth is, you've got it. You've

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Speaker 1: got to understand from her point of view, this is

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Speaker 1: normal and it's you know, no thy enemy, no thuy

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Speaker 1: quote unquote crazy verse. You have to understand what's going

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Speaker 1: on in a head. This is a girl who obviously

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Speaker 1: suffers from an obsessive compulsive disorder, no question about it.

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Speaker 1: I certainly hope she has an unlimited data plan. She

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Speaker 1: her belief system about what is love is is not

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Speaker 1: a t it's she believes that it's a one giving

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Speaker 1: You shall receive whatever you know, put it out there

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Speaker 1: in the world, treat people the way you want to

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Speaker 1: be treated and it will come back to you. And

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Speaker 1: that those are all good sort of life philosophies. But

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Speaker 1: if you now take them to the level of on

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Speaker 1: this continuum of an obsessive compulsive this is what you get.

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Speaker 1: I mean. But if you have to remember from her

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Speaker 1: point of view, this is she's a good person, this

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Speaker 1: is normal. She knows he doesn't. She's found her Earth angel,

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Speaker 1: So I mean, that's what's going on. This is not

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Speaker 1: um a crazy person. This is an unwell person. Another

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Speaker 1: issue out to forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, you know

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Speaker 1: in those horror movies, you think you here's somebody that

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Speaker 1: you look and they're not there. Well, there were calls

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Speaker 1: all the way back in December where he thought she

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Speaker 1: was skulking around his home, and one of those times

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Speaker 1: cops didn't find any evidence of her. Another time they

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Speaker 1: found her skulking around his home on the outside. That's

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Speaker 1: freaky to think she's out there looking in and they

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Speaker 1: also find her sitting in her car. There are multiple

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Speaker 1: calls to police up from him claiming that she what

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Speaker 1: I can tell because the recalls to that home of

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Speaker 1: a trespasser, but they couldn't find her. Now that gives

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Speaker 1: it a whole another twist. Just got Morgan, Just got

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Speaker 1: Morgan joining me forensics expert and professor forensics that Jack,

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Speaker 1: Civil State University, just Scott. The thing is the cops

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Speaker 1: couldn't even find her, but he knew she had been there.

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Speaker 1: That's scary. Yeah, it is. This guy had gone in

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Speaker 1: and you know, set up cameras in his own home, Uh,

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Speaker 1: to surveil this woman, or to surveil whatever's going on

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Speaker 1: around his house. I wonder if she was she had

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Speaker 1: an awareness that she was on tape. You know, she's

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Speaker 1: this psychotic Uh you know, I'm wondering if she if

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Speaker 1: she's aware of it, that she's demonstrating to him in

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Speaker 1: some kind of twisted way that she's still in his space. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was listening just a moment ago to

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Speaker 1: to our psychiatrist there and I was thinking, Wow, you know,

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Speaker 1: she's got all of this spare time on her hands

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Speaker 1: to spend all of this time, uh doing this? And

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Speaker 1: how how she's staying off the radar of the cops. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're talking sixty texts. She's stalking this guy going everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Why can't they track him? Then? Well, here is another dichotomy.

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Speaker 1: She claimed, send her interview, which is weird that she's

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Speaker 1: giving interviews anyway, That she would never hurt him. Listen, No,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, No, I love him so much. I

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Speaker 1: just want to love him so much, I said. And

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Speaker 1: if he doesn't like it, then I'll go home. And

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Speaker 1: I love my exploitment. What am I supposed to do? Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty flippant for a woman that has now been booked, arrested,

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Speaker 1: and fingerprinted. But she says she wouldn't hurt and that's

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Speaker 1: not exactly what some of her texts say that she

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Speaker 1: he showed to the court he wants to remain anonymous,

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Speaker 1: and do you blame him? Some messages allude that quote

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Speaker 1: harm may come to him end quote. Also quote don't

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Speaker 1: ever try to leave me dot dot dot, I'll kill

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Speaker 1: you dot dot dot. I don't want to be a murderer.

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Speaker 1: She also says she wanted to wear his body parts

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Speaker 1: and bathe in his blood. According to court paperwork, Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chuck so far off her from you. They

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Speaker 1: meet on a dating website and she bombards him with

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Speaker 1: sixty five thousand texts. What about the wearing your body parts? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's she just says, Oh, I would never heard him.

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Speaker 1: Pretty much, all of the text messages that he read

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Speaker 1: to the court show that she did want to hurt him.

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Speaker 1: You know, she said, you know what I'm thinking about,

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about your blood, and I'm thinking about how

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Speaker 1: I would like to bathe in it. There's there's nothing

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Speaker 1: about that that's not violent. She also starts talking about Hitler,

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Speaker 1: and she starts talking about how she she really admired

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Speaker 1: this man, this this Nazi man and his everything about

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Speaker 1: Hitler is murdered. So so you have to connect the two.

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Speaker 1: She absolutely was threatening this man's life. Well, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to her. Jacqueline aids in a jail house interview,

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Speaker 1: why did you text him sixty five thousand times? Because

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Speaker 1: it made me find out all my information? Loving himselflessly

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Speaker 1: brought this information because every but he just wants to take.

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Speaker 1: But if you just give, and you don't stop giving,

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Speaker 1: even if you don't receive, you all of a sudden receive.

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Speaker 1: What did he tell you to stop contacting him? I

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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about that? Do you listen to that?

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. Text messages to me

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Speaker 1: seem like more see about that's kind of excessive. Love

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Speaker 1: is an excessive thing. Can you understand why people think

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Speaker 1: this is a little bit out there? Can you? Are

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Speaker 1: you a crazy person? Tell us for are you like

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Speaker 1: I'm the person that discovered love? Okay? She never explains

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Speaker 1: or reveals that he asked her to please stop texting

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Speaker 1: him sixty five thousand text messages later, breaking into his home,

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Speaker 1: getting into his bathtub, claiming she wants to wear his

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Speaker 1: body parts and eithan his blood. Multiple calls to police,

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Speaker 1: and they couldn't find her when they got there, a

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Speaker 1: butcher knife in her car. It goes on and on

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Speaker 1: and on. Oops, I left out the part where she

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Speaker 1: impersonates his wife. He doesn't have a wife. Number one

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Speaker 1: but people thought they don't even know her, they saw

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Speaker 1: her in public and claims she was acting bizarrely. Then

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Speaker 1: she told others, possibly police, that she was the victim's wife.

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Speaker 1: What happened there alexis Urez Chuck. So this guy is

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Speaker 1: at work and she showed up somehow. He hasn't said,

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Speaker 1: but he apparently has security at his office because she

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Speaker 1: showed up at his work and said she was his

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Speaker 1: wife and wanted to see him, and they would not

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Speaker 1: let her in, and he called the police again. So

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Speaker 1: this this guy is he's really desperate. This is like

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Speaker 1: so many stories that we hear. It's often, you know,

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Speaker 1: a woman saying, I think this person is talking to me.

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Speaker 1: That's what he does. He calls the police. He says,

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Speaker 1: she's here again. She has found my office, which is

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Speaker 1: really scary that people. I guess you can find out

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Speaker 1: so much about people online now, but that she showed

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Speaker 1: up there, parked her car and walked in there. Who

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Speaker 1: knows if this time she could have had a weapon

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Speaker 1: on her. So he calls the police. They come, they

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Speaker 1: take her away again, but she's still free. She is

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Speaker 1: not in jail. He then goes out of the country

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Speaker 1: on a business trip, and he has installed in his

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Speaker 1: home remote security so he can look at it from

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Speaker 1: another place. So he's looking on his phone while he's

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Speaker 1: out of the country, looks in his bathroom and she

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Speaker 1: is in his bathroom taking a bath. She has broken

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Speaker 1: into his home and is taking a bath. He frantically

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Speaker 1: calls the police again. The police show up at his house.

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Speaker 1: They arrest her, and this is what they found. They

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Speaker 1: found a huge butcher's knife in the front seat of

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Speaker 1: her car. So this woman had every intention of committing

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Speaker 1: a violent crime. She had a knife with her butcher's knife.

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Speaker 1: That's this isn't you know, a small Swiss army knife

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Speaker 1: that might carry on your key chain for protection. A

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Speaker 1: butcher's NiFe is a huge knife. And she had broken

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Speaker 1: into his house. And a lot of people are saying

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Speaker 1: she was in his home. No, that's not what she was.

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Speaker 1: She broke into his home and took a bath in

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Speaker 1: his bath. What if he had come home to this.

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Speaker 1: Luckily he had the security he was protecting himself. And

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Speaker 1: the police finally responded and finally put her in jail.

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Speaker 1: A woman accused of stalking tells her story in a

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Speaker 1: jail house interview, trying to explain why she sent a

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Speaker 1: Paradise of valleyman sixty thousand text messages claiming she wanted

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Speaker 1: to wear his body parts and bathe in his blood. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, Lauren Howard, a New York psychologist. You're saying

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Speaker 1: she has a compulsive disorder. That is not insanity. That

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Speaker 1: is not a defense under the law. When do you

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Speaker 1: understand that what you're doing is wrong, that it would

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Speaker 1: be perceived as crazy. She doesn't. She thinks it's perfectly normal.

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Speaker 1: And you know, Nancy, the whole insanity I mean, is

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Speaker 1: anyone saying who commits some of the heinous crimes that

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Speaker 1: we see. I mean, obviously, uh, these kinds of criminals

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Speaker 1: are deeply disturbed. That doesn't mean that they should get

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Speaker 1: away with it or get off because of a claim

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Speaker 1: of insanity. If if you will, give insanity a bad name,

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Speaker 1: because not all insane people are violent. She thinks that

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Speaker 1: what she did was not only fine, but she thinks

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Speaker 1: it was in his best interests. So, you know, should

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Speaker 1: she get off on an insanity place, I'm certain that

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Speaker 1: someone that that will be her defense, because frankly, it's

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Speaker 1: her only defense. I as a mental health professional, don't

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Speaker 1: think that that gives her a get out of jail card.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a dangerous person. She needs help. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let me understand something, jess As Scott Morgan, and you're

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Speaker 1: the forensic sex part. She says things like, I'd wear

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Speaker 1: your facia in the top of your skull and your

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Speaker 1: hands and feet. I'm not I'm just a j D

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Speaker 1: all right. But isn't that the connective tissue in your body. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of white tissue that connects the skin literally

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Speaker 1: as an overlying layer of skin to Okay, are right.

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Speaker 1: She goes on to say, oh, what I would do

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Speaker 1: with your blood? I'd want to bathe in it. I'm

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Speaker 1: like the new Hitler. The man was a genius. Then

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Speaker 1: she has a string of anti Semitic words, which I

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Speaker 1: take very personally. Don't ever try to leave me. I'll

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Speaker 1: kill you. I don't want to be a murderer. Okay.

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Speaker 1: She um veers from topic to topic, rambling about Einstein.

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Speaker 1: She talks about the birth part of Jesus. I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know when he was born. I just assume we

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Speaker 1: just picked December twenty five because it's a fun time.

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Speaker 1: But she talks about his birth chart, the symbolism of

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Speaker 1: the markings on a dollar bill. You know what, Alex says,

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Speaker 1: you have this to look forward to with your little boy. Um,

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Speaker 1: John David and Lucy for about a minute, but John

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Speaker 1: David Moore, so got obsessed for a while about the

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Speaker 1: marks on a dollar bill, and we had to watch

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Speaker 1: National Treasure abouts. So this woman is uh fascinated with

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Speaker 1: the symbolism of the markings on a dollar bill. She

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Speaker 1: rants rambling about Einstein, the Dead Sea, Christ's birth chart

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Speaker 1: and the symbolism of the markings on a dollar bill.

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Speaker 1: Has yours been through that yet? Alexis with the dollar bill? No,

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Speaker 1: he just likes the space Shuttle because we have one

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Speaker 1: here in Los Angeles. He wants to be an astronaut. Now, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm glad you got me off my topic of this

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Speaker 1: woman wanting to bathe in his blood for a minute.

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Speaker 1: But back to her. She then says, I love o

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Speaker 1: m G. I love him so much. Then she says, um,

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Speaker 1: he's the meanest person I've ever met, and he's my

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Speaker 1: soul mate. Okay, um, it's like from one moment to

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Speaker 1: the next, I have to share the message of love.

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Speaker 1: Everybody has to love each other. Okay. Well, she's been

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Speaker 1: booked into the Fourth Avenue Jail charges of threatening, stalking, harassment,

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Speaker 1: and failure to appear. She's being held without bond. What's

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Speaker 1: the likelihood that she had repeat offend if she gets

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Speaker 1: out on bond. Lauren Howard, Oh, highly likely unless she

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Speaker 1: gets help. Um, you know, I haven't witnessed her firsthand.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what her life history is. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what her relationship history is. Uh. This didn't just emerge.

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Speaker 1: There's a story here. Um you know, there's a longitudinal story.

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Speaker 1: She didn't just become this person after meeting this man. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this woman, it's help. Should she be in the general population. No?

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Speaker 1: Should she get off by reason of insanity? No? Should

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Speaker 1: she be put in a prison system. I'd be hard

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Speaker 1: pressed to just be back. Okay, then you know what,

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Speaker 1: You bring her home to your place in Manhattan and

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Speaker 1: let her make you a nice romantic dinner tonight. I

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Speaker 1: want her put away, but I'd like her to be help. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's take a listen to Jacqueline Aids. She describes the

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Speaker 1: quote love equation. The point of love is to keep

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Speaker 1: giving it. That's the math equation is love equals three

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Speaker 1: point three, which is infinity times equals and squared, which

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Speaker 1: is life, lateness, forever, and equals. If love was the number,

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Speaker 1: it would be three. So it's infinity times like, which

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Speaker 1: is also infanity. So it's just forward, forever forward, and

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Speaker 1: if you're selfish, you can't understand that. If you want

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Speaker 1: to read and hear more about the prosecution of Jacqueline

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Speaker 1: Aids and the details regarding how she stalked this guy,

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Speaker 1: go to crime online dot com for the very latest

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Speaker 1: in this and all other crime and justice news. Crime

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Speaker 1: online dot com there's a brand new website causing a

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Speaker 1: lot of trouble for people with something to hide. Have

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Speaker 1: you ever had a bad feeling about somebody may be

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00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 1: suspected your partners cheating, maybe worried about your online reputation.

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Speaker 1: If you answer yes to any of those questions, you

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Speaker 1: may need truth Finder. Public records are only recently easily

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00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 1: available online. Before websites like truth Finder, you most likely

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00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 1: have to visit a courthouse to get that information. Now

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00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 1: it's as simple as entering a name. Truth Finder sifts

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00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,879
Speaker 1: through millions of public records from all over the country,

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00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: assembling them into one easy to read report. Search the

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00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: names of somebody you know, you could find criminal and

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00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: arrest records, bankruptcies, contact information, social dating profiles, financial assets,

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Speaker 1: and a lot more. Why fork out thousands to a

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Speaker 1: private an investigator when you can do the job yourself.

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Speaker 1: Everybody you know has something to hide. Now you can

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Speaker 1: root out the most dangerous people before you become the

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Speaker 1: next victim. As not just used to us bad people.

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Speaker 1: Truth Finder helps Americans reunite with friends, family, even people

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Speaker 1: who served with them in the military. It's never been

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Speaker 1: so easy to find the truth. Go to truth finder

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Speaker 1: dot com slash Nancy and enter any name to get started.

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Speaker 1: I remember the twins at just three months old. I

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Speaker 1: remember I was doing everything I could to keep them

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Speaker 1: alive because Lucy was extremely premature and every day was

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Speaker 1: a struggle. I handled them like they were gold, taking

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Speaker 1: every possible precaution to keep them alive. And then I

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Speaker 1: find out about this investigation. A three month old baby

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Speaker 1: girl is dead in her own home, mauled dead by

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Speaker 1: a family dog. Straight out to Alexis terres Chuck with

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Speaker 1: Radar Online dot com, Alexis, I can't even take it in.

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Speaker 1: Long story short, you have a little boy as well.

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Speaker 1: At three months old. There's no way a tiny infant

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Speaker 1: can do anything to protect itself. What happened? So the

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Speaker 1: baby was being baby sat by the grandmother in the

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Speaker 1: home with three dogs, a rottweiler, a labrador and a chihuahua,

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Speaker 1: two very large dogs, one very small dog. Grandma was

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Speaker 1: babysitting just a tiny three month old baby. She says

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Speaker 1: that she got up, she went to get a bottle

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Speaker 1: for the baby because she was taking care of her,

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Speaker 1: and that she came back and the dogs were mauling

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Speaker 1: on a child. She immediately called nine one one. Well,

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Speaker 1: another thing I don't understand, Alexis Torres chuck with me

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Speaker 1: from writer online dot com. Where was the child? Was

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Speaker 1: the child in a a bassinet? Was it on the bed?

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Speaker 1: I mean, how did they get to the baby? Was

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Speaker 1: it on the floor. I believe the baby was actually

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Speaker 1: on a sofa. And at three months old, the baby

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Speaker 1: can't roll around. Really, babies can't do it. Well, every

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Speaker 1: baby is different. My baby because not rolling around at

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Speaker 1: three months on his own, so something that you know,

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Speaker 1: they're tiny, they're squaddle, you wrap them up and they

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Speaker 1: can't really move. So I understand the baby was on

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Speaker 1: a sofa, you know, on the sofa though that that

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Speaker 1: seems as if the dogs would have easier access. Let

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Speaker 1: me go to our expert, Dr Gray Stafford. I know

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Speaker 1: from being the director of conservation at the Wildlife World

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Speaker 1: zoo and aquarium. But Dr Stafford now a professor, Gray,

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Speaker 1: I'm just beside myself with what happened to this three

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Speaker 1: month old baby girl. You're absolutely right, Nancy. It's another

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Speaker 1: tragic situation, and it's a it's a terrible reminder that

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Speaker 1: you know, even though we have so many millions of

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Speaker 1: dogs in our homes as pets, they're still animals. We

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Speaker 1: still have to protect our kids at all times and

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Speaker 1: and never look away before the shortest month time, especially

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Speaker 1: with a young infant like this. But Gray, everywhere I

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Speaker 1: turn when I do a dog bawling story, uh, And

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Speaker 1: there's so many of them where they kill their owners.

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Speaker 1: I know everybody's gonna get crazy on this, but it's

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Speaker 1: always Rottweilers and pit bolt now Rottweiler and a couple

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Speaker 1: of times press the Canarias, but Rottwilers and pit bull

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Speaker 1: owners or lovers get furious with me. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: you never hear of a docks in or really a

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Speaker 1: German shepherd or I don't really recall Doberman pinchers so much.

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Speaker 1: It's always these two. Now, why why is it? Why

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Speaker 1: is it always these two uh types of dogs? Well,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it has to just go with the X. Right.

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Speaker 1: These are big, large body dog breeds so Gray, so

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Speaker 1: are Saint Bernard's, and we see them running down a

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Speaker 1: snowy hill with hot chocolate around their neck to save people,

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Speaker 1: not ripping the throat out of a three month old

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Speaker 1: baby girl Gray. It's not about the size, it's something else. Well. Also,

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Speaker 1: these are very popular breeds compared to say a St. Bernard's,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of it has to do just with

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Speaker 1: the sheer numbers of these breeds that are in people's homes.

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Speaker 1: But it goes back to training. It goes back to

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Speaker 1: preparing these animals for change. As you indicated. You know,

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Speaker 1: having a child or two is a huge change for

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Speaker 1: a family much as well as their pets, and we

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Speaker 1: have to make sure that these animals are prepared for

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Speaker 1: the changes that are brought about by a baby. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And when animals are not prepared for those changes, they

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Speaker 1: often react in ways that are that are not They're

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Speaker 1: not good at all. Well, this is what I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: How could they the three animals there's a Rottweil or

424
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,880
Speaker 1: a Labrador and a terrier. Alexis terres chuck riter online

425
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 1: dot com. Correct me if I'm wrong. They haven't attributed

426
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: it to whichever dog, but with a Rottweiler in the mix,

427
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that was the ring. Later, how can

428
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: they turn on a pen great and be normal animals,

429
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: loving pets, and then the grandmother walks out to get

430
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: a bottle and they suddenly attacked the baby. Well, it

431
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: may have nothing to do with the baby, but the

432
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: baby was there and available. But you know, babies come

433
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: with all sorts of sounds and different How can you

434
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: even say it has nothing to do with the baby.

435
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: They ate the baby. It is all about the baby.

436
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: What do you mean it has nothing to do with

437
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: the baby. What I mean is the motivation for their

438
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: behavior may have had nothing to do with the baby initially,

439
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: but the baby is they're present. It's called displaced aggression,

440
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: and we see it all the time in animals and

441
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,719
Speaker 1: in people. Um, I don't know for certain that that

442
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: was the case, but animals, again, it goes back to

443
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 1: their preparation for dealing with change, dealing with frustration, uh,

444
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: dealing with new things in the home. And we just

445
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: don't know what level of these animals prepared were prepared

446
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: for that, And obviously by the outcome. Uh more was

447
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: needed to Alexis to res Chuck right online dot com.

448
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: Let's go through the facts from beginning to end. What

449
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: to start at the beginning? Maybe I'm missing something. This

450
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: is the home where the little girl lives her grandmother.

451
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: Her parents are not home. Her grandmother is taking care

452
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 1: of her. So little girl needs a bottle because that's

453
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 1: how she gets fed. The grandmother leaves the baby just

454
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: three months old, tiny thing in one room, goes in

455
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: the other room. There are three dogs in the house,

456
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: a right wiler, a Labrador, and the chihuahua. Tiny dogs.

457
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: So two dogs that are about nine pounds, one dog

458
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: that's about ten pounds. And grandma leaves the room to

459
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: heat up the bottle, mix the bottle, take care of

460
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: the bottle in the other room in the kitchen. Comes

461
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: back in and the dogs are mauling this baby. You know,

462
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: she tries to get them off. It's almost more than

463
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: I can take king, you know, Alexis to rest Chuck.

464
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: You remember when I had the twins, John, David and Lucy.

465
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: I was don't laugh at me. I had you know,

466
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: I'm not a cat person at all, Alexis, but I

467
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: took in a solid black stray cat. When I was

468
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: living in Midtown Atlanta, I brought the cat in. I

469
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: fell in love with the cat, Coco. It was a

470
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: boy cat, and I had Cocoa for eighteen years. I

471
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 1: became a cat person because of Coco. I was so

472
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: freaked out, Alexis, I wouldn't even let my belove a cat,

473
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,679
Speaker 1: be around the twins by themselves. I don't know what

474
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 1: I thought was gonna happen. I thought maybe they might

475
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: get scratched. I didn't know, but I would not even

476
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: allow Coco, my my old cat, to be alone around

477
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 1: the twins when they were babies. Alexis, a lot of

478
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: people say that. A lot of people, you know, get

479
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: rid of their animals when they have a baby. They

480
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: tell you, we we have dogs to take something home

481
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: from the hospital when the baby is born. You know

482
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 1: there you have four million blankets and hats in the hospital.

483
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: Take that home, let the dogs smell it. That's what

484
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: we had to do with our dogs. So this little

485
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: baby has been in the home for three months and

486
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: grandma leaves the room, the dogs come in attack her.

487
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 1: The police were called. They say that they do not

488
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: know which dog it is they're taking d n A.

489
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: They took all three dogs out of the home immediately.

490
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: They're taking DNA from the dogs to determine which one

491
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: was responsible for the attack. They had enough evidence obviously,

492
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: all over this baby, and they feel like they can

493
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: determine it by d NA. M M a ninety ninety

494
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: eight pound rot wil Or, an eighty nine pound labrador,

495
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: and a tin pound terrier, all family pets at Grandma's

496
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: home to Vincent Hill, private investigator joining us. Former p

497
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: D also with me our special guest, doctor Gray Stafford.

498
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: I met him during the Jodi Arias trial. He was

499
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 1: then the director of the conservation at the Wildlife World

500
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 1: Zoo and Aquarium in Phoenix. Vincent Hill. Uh, I'm looking

501
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: right now at the Grandma's house and Vincent When you

502
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: hear things like that, it's easy to say, oh, these

503
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: are those crazy dog people that would let their dogs

504
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: run through the house. This is a beautiful neighborhood. If

505
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: you look at Grandma's home, it's perfectly and immaculately kept.

506
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. So what I'm trying to say is, don't

507
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: try and distance yourself from these people. It's easy to

508
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: do that. I think it makes us feel better because

509
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 1: we go, oh, that would never happen to me, but

510
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: this is a really nice neighborhood with a loving grandmother. Yeah,

511
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: and Nancy, it could happen anywhere. And you know, when

512
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: my son was first born, we actually had a Rottweiler

513
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: and one of the things I did, I took two

514
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: blankets before we even brought him home. So the rottweiler,

515
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: Roth was his name, could actually smell the blankets and

516
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: get used to a sin. But what I learned as

517
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: my son got older and could start to crawl and walk,

518
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: you know, willers are very strong, they're very playful at

519
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: the same time, so what appears to be aggression is

520
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: sometimes the route whiler playing roughly. So what we had

521
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: to do was get rid of Rock and we got

522
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: two German shepherds because you know, Rock was just a

523
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: very brute of a dog and he would, you know,

524
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 1: knock my son around. So it was we made that decision, Hey,

525
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: we need to get rid of Rock, and we got

526
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: German shepherds who never touched my son. Okay, now hold

527
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: on inviscent, walk me through that again. You got rid

528
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: of your Rottwiler because why because as my son was

529
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: able to start crawling around and moving around. You know,

530
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: any certain sound or a laugh or a cry rot

531
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: would kind of like go up to him head bon him.

532
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: You know. It was just like, did you say head

533
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: butt him? Head butt him? Am I hearing correctly? I

534
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: don't know if it was him checking to see if

535
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: my son was okay, or maybe thinking he was playing

536
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: with my son. But you know, when you're pound dog

537
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: and have this six month old crawling around on the floor,

538
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 1: that's not something you definitely want to keep up with.

539
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: So we had to get rid of okay. You know, Vincent,

540
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: I hope that you did not have the dog euthanized,

541
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: but I'm glad you got the dog away from the baby.

542
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: To Dr Gray Stafford, physiologist, author of Zumility Positive Reinforcement Trainer,

543
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: formally the director of Conservation at Wildlife World, Zoo and Phoenix,

544
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: I don't really know how to verbalize this, Gray, but

545
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: you know me well enough to know the point I'm

546
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: trying to make. I'm not trying to vilify rock Wilers

547
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: or um any other breed of dog. And this is

548
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: not a statistic. This is anecdotal. Gray Stafford. I have

549
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: covered so many cases where Rottweiler's in particular, Um, a

550
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: few others how attacked people. And I don't understand why

551
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: no one wants to admit that this is true. Certain

552
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: breeds of dog are not as safe as others. Well,

553
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 1: I would agree with you that certain breeds of dog

554
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: have the the ability to inflict serious harm or worse right,

555
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: because of their size, their strength, because of what they've

556
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: been bred for over the eons. Um. But to me,

557
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: it goes back to how the animals are trained. How

558
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: are they prepared or not in the case of this

559
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 1: baby or other families. As you said, this is a

560
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: nice looking home, but it goes down to preparation, and

561
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: like any great you know, I love you Gray deeply, deeply,

562
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't know how you can say

563
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: it's all about training, because you don't hear if training

564
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: is equal across the board, why isn't it Um a

565
00:33:55,240 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: labradoodle or a Dockson or a German shepherd heard or

566
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: even a Debriman pinch or really scary looking Sometimes they're

567
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: not the ones attacking babies and killing them and adults

568
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 1: and their owners. It's always these two breeds, pit bulls

569
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: and rott Wiler's it can't be just the training, Gray

570
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: That that's statistically impossible. Some of it has to do

571
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,399
Speaker 1: with the popularity of the breed, because if you look

572
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 1: at the number of dog bites in the in the US,

573
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: for example, the leading breed for dog bites are chihuahua's,

574
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: and yet they're probably not likely to cause death. It's

575
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: the behavior is the same that the drives for those

576
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, Gray, Gray, Grey, Greg, that's a

577
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: blanket statement. A dog bite from a chihuahua does what?

578
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 1: What makes you spray the back teen on it and

579
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: go about your business? Put a little um emog band

580
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: aid on it. Maybe a bite from a chihuahua is

581
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: a lot different from a bite from a pit bull. Okay,

582
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna turn the tables on you,

583
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 1: Dr Gray Stafford. All right, I'll give you your statistic.

584
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 1: The it's typically a chihuahua that does a little nipping.

585
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: But what dog most often kills a human? What about that?

586
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: Dr Gray Stafford, Well, there's several at the top, I mean,

587
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: certainly large breeds like Rottweiler's, pitbull varieties, German shepherds, um

588
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 1: there are other large breeds that that caused problems. But

589
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: to me, as you said earlier, you're not trying to

590
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: demonize a certain breed, and neither am I. It has

591
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: to do with training, and it has to do with

592
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: the consequences of a large animal. The training your back

593
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: on the track again. I just don't think you can

594
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: chalk it up to training. These are very aggressive animals,

595
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 1: and hey, you want to have a rottweiler, you want

596
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: to have a pitbull, have at it. But number one,

597
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 1: keep them away from my children. And you're at Vincent

598
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: Hill he had one and their playful dog started head

599
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,399
Speaker 1: butting the baby, so he moved it out of the home.

600
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I get exhausted and emotionally drained by

601
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: seeing one child after the next killed by a pit

602
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: bull or a rottweiler. All right, go ahead, pit bull

603
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: rottweiler lovers hate me. I'm just telling you the way.

604
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:25,239
Speaker 1: It is. A mom found dead, Rebecca Becky apodaca in

605
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: an attack, so brutal autopsy photos are not fit for

606
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: public viewing. What happened to Becky? And how does ben

607
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 1: a drill fit into the scenario? Alexas Torres Chuck writer

608
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: Online dot Com investigative reporter I've given my children been

609
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,319
Speaker 1: a drill. How does ben a drill fit into a

610
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 1: scenario wheream where a mom is found brutally attacked and

611
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: is dead. So this mom works from home. Her twenty

612
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: year old son actually lives with her. She was not

613
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: hurt from one day. She always checks into work. She

614
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: works home from home. Didn't check into work, didn't start working,

615
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: didn't respond text messages from friends, her supervisors, her daughter.

616
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 1: Nobody hears from her all day. So her daughter shows

617
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,240
Speaker 1: up in the afternoon. Late afternoon, shows up at her apartment,

618
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: goes in the house, finds her mom beaten to a

619
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: bloody pulp with a hammer, just blood everywhere. She's on

620
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: her bed and she finds her brother twenty six years

621
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: old in the closet, hiding hiding in the closet, and

622
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: he is completely naked, is babbling incoherently. He has he

623
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 1: has slit his own throat, his wrist slip, but he

624
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: is still alive. She calls the police. The police come,

625
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 1: They find the murder weapon in the apartment, They find

626
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: the hammer, They find the knife the brothers used. They

627
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: actually find the floor is the apartment is completely soaked

628
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,920
Speaker 1: in blood. They find a toaster in the sink as

629
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: covered in water, as if maybe somebody was trying to

630
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: electrocute themselves. That's all covered with blood. They search, they

631
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: can't find any reason. They literally see two little pills

632
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: on the floor and they think maybe this has something

633
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 1: to do with it. They take the pills. They take them,

634
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: they test them, their Benadryl anti allergy antihistamine medicine, and

635
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: they realize they find they find packaging that this man

636
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: took one hundred allergy pills. Joining me White Now Dr

637
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: William Maroney, renowned medical examiner. Dr Maroney, what is the

638
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: active ingredient in benadryl and what effect will it have

639
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: on a person? Benadryl is a brand name. The generic

640
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: name the active chemical the medicine is dife and hydramine.

641
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 1: Dife and hydramine has been used for or decades and

642
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: it is predominantly for allergies. It's an antihistamine, So if

643
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: you get something that causes an allergic reaction to swelling

644
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: and itching, diaphene hydramine is available as a cream. It's

645
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 1: available as a pill and in the hospital in the

646
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: emergency room or in UH surgery or I see you

647
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: it's available as an injection, but it's always capped out

648
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: around fifty milligrams, and the generical over the counter version

649
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: is twenty five milligrams, and it's safe when taken the

650
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: doses that are marketed and sold, and the instructions are

651
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: to be followed with those doses. Dr Maroney, what would

652
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: do to a person. I have seen the effects of

653
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: taking thirty to forty diaphin hydramine somebody who kept forgetting

654
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: that they took some, and took more, and then took more,

655
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 1: and she became delirious. She was having auditory and visual hallucinations.

656
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: Because the key structure in the chemistry of dieph and

657
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,919
Speaker 1: hydramine is that's a it's a phenol. Ethylamine is very

658
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: similar to a method phetamine, very similar, and at high

659
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: doses you overwhelmed the brain. When it's designed to be

660
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,240
Speaker 1: taken as twenty five milligrams over the counter or fifty

661
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: milligrams prescription, and then suddenly eight pills are tablets. You've

662
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 1: got over two thousand milligrams on something that you should take,

663
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: you will have hallucinations. My patient was hearing seeing and

664
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: talking to dead people in her family from her past

665
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: and she was doing it in my presence and I said,

666
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: you're taking way too much of this. You need to

667
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: back down. And she would turn around and turn to

668
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: the side where there was nobody and ask them questions.

669
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: And I said, who are you talking to? And she said, well,

670
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: this is so and so, but they're dead, so you

671
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 1: don't know them. And she was seeing and talking to

672
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: dead people at those high doses. Dr Maroney, what would

673
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 1: one peals due to a person? It would push you

674
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: further into psychosis, at drug induced psychosis where you were

675
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: absolutely not in reality with the physical things around you

676
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: would you might not hear or respond to the people,

677
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 1: and you would be driven by um these hallucinations at

678
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: such a strong and pathological level, the it is known

679
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: as a deliriant. At that level, a delirium and a

680
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 1: medicine that causes delirium. Okay, wow. The mother is found

681
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: dead in a blood soaked bed. Uh there in the

682
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: apartment that she shared with her son. The mom is

683
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: actually pretty young. She must have had him at a

684
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: young age. Benadril is a name for a substance used

685
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: as Alex has told you to treat allergies. Now, this guy,

686
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:36,919
Speaker 1: twenty six year old McGhee as found as Alexis told you,

687
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: buck naked hiding in the closet. Now, according to his lawyers,

688
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: murder is different from killing. Hm hmm. Interesting that they

689
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 1: make that differentiation. We don't know when exactly he attacked

690
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: his mother, but we know that around eight am that

691
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: day she the mom Becky had felt to like in

692
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: and her at home medical billing job, and all day

693
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: long she never responded to messages from friends, her family,

694
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,720
Speaker 1: her supervisor at work. So at eight a m. There's

695
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: already trouble. Sounds like it happened sometime during the night.

696
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: Then Becky misses dinner plans and her daughter stops by

697
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 1: to check on mom. Six thirty pm, she finds her

698
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:34,240
Speaker 1: mom dead on a blood soaked bed in the bedroom closet.

699
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 1: Was the brother babbling. The daughter calls nine one one,

700
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: and when firefighters get there, Becky was still lying there

701
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 1: and McGhee was lying on the floor, half in the bedroom,

702
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: halfway in the bathroom. His eyes bugged out and his

703
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,720
Speaker 1: pupils dilated, His legs were shaking, he couldn't walk, according

704
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: to the prosecutor. In inside the apartment, as Alexis was

705
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: telling us, police find knives. Two knives are found in

706
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: a blood smeared bathtub and a bloody toaster in the sink.

707
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: The rug was soaked with water. In the kitchen, investigators

708
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: find a bottle of generic allergy medicine except for one peel,

709
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: empty but for one peel stuck near the edge, and

710
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 1: two on the floor. What do you make Dr Moroney

711
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 1: of the physical symptoms his eyes quote bugged up, hiding

712
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: into closet, naked, superficial scratches to his body. I would

713
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: say that they're hyper vigilant, fearful, and paranoid, and these

714
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: are all things that you can get in hallucinations with delirium.

715
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: It makes total sense, and that's why we need to

716
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: control these medications and regular screening by primary care doctors

717
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: and poison control centers to make sure that they're not

718
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: taken at those really high pathological levels. Okay with me,

719
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:16,320
Speaker 1: Forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, Let's look at the scene,

720
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. We've got the bloody toaster, which makes its

721
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: occurred after he had stabbed her at least once. Bloody

722
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: toaster in a sink, which means he had unplugged it

723
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: and moved it possibly plugged it back in again. Was

724
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: he trying to electrocute his mother? Was he trying to

725
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 1: electrocute himself? Two knives, bloody in the bathtub, the bathtub

726
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 1: covered in blood. What do you make of it? Joseph

727
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, Well, there's gonna be this kind of, you know,

728
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 1: homicidal dance that would have taken place. We can hopefully

729
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: they have gone back and reconstructed the scene using the

730
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: sm ters, the spatters. Everything is connected. Let's go back

731
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: to the toaster. We're assuming that he he used that

732
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: toaster or he he came and he may have used

733
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 1: that to electrocuter. But what if he initiated the attack

734
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,239
Speaker 1: with the toaster itself and got blood on it by

735
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: bludging it. I'm just saying, the weapon of opportunity you're

736
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: talking about an event is very up close and personal.

737
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: We've got bloody knives and we've got a bloody hammer

738
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,319
Speaker 1: as well. Um yeah, hold on, that's important to me

739
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 1: that he would have the wherewithal to seek out multiple

740
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: weapons too, knives and a hammer, because I know that

741
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: she Becky had been struck at least ten times in

742
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: a four by four inch area in the center of

743
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 1: her face, going straight for her face with a hammer

744
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: and two knives. Go ahead. Yeah, And that's the thing

745
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: about it, Nancy, when over the course of my career,

746
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: when you when you work these bludgeoning kind of cases

747
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: like this, it's very difficult many times because you have

748
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: overlapping injuries to appreciate what the origin of some of

749
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: these things are. And also you you couple that with

750
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 1: sharp force injuries. Now, I've got a scenario in mind here,

751
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: and I can address that as we go along. But

752
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: I think that the bathtub is going to play a

753
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: key in here. I'm wondering if at some point Tom

754
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: he didn't make some kind of effort to clean her

755
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: in some way or to clean himself. What's really going

756
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: to be important here is to see from a serological

757
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: standpoint as well as from perspective of DNA, to see

758
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: whose blood is contained in that bathtub? Um, he apparently

759
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: attempted self harm here. Did he do it to himself?

760
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,240
Speaker 1: Or is the blood coach? Wait a minute, wait a minute,

761
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: attempted self harm? Why is it? Lauren Howard New York

762
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: Psychologists that the mom I was, She's dead. She's dead

763
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: ten times over. She's stabbed multiple times, she's beat in

764
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,439
Speaker 1: the face with a hammer. Can you imagine the pain

765
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: she endured, the velocity with which he hit her. And

766
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: then he's got a couple of scratches. It sounds like

767
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: he murdered her and then put scratches on himself. That's

768
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: not trying to kill yourself. Well, you know, this benadryl

769
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: thing has me haunted because, first of all, uh, you know,

770
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 1: we're saying this occurred perhaps in the night or at

771
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: least early in the morning. They discover it in the evening.

772
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: They do a toxicology on him and find the benadryl

773
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: levels in his blood. When did he take the benegrl?

774
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 1: Did he take it before or after? I think that's

775
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: fat in this case, Frankly, I mean, I think that's

776
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: sort of the whole ball of way. Why do you

777
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 1: say that explained to me your reasoning, because if he

778
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 1: took the benadryl after, it says, oh my god, what

779
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: have I done? You know, let me hurt myself, let

780
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 1: me kill myself. You don't take a hundred benadryl to

781
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 1: get high, Okay, I mean that's a you're looking to

782
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: take a lethal dose of whatever is available, and bena

783
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: drill happen to be available. That's a whole different scenario.

784
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: I'm not excusing it, but it's a whole different scenario

785
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: from what his his defense attorneys are saying, which is,

786
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: you know that the benadrill caused him to go crazy

787
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,720
Speaker 1: and kill his mother. Yeah, hey, totally different. Yeah, Nancy,

788
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: I gotta say here that what's really curious, as the

789
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 1: doctor was saying, what's really curious to me is that

790
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: when they found him, he was in this kind of

791
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: shocky state where he's vibrating, he's in the closet, all

792
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 1: this sort of thing. My thought is is that if

793
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 1: he had taken this prior to the event, I think

794
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,399
Speaker 1: that shoots a real big hole in the defense's case.

795
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: If he had taken this prior to the event, he

796
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:48,720
Speaker 1: would have had time for this Bena drill to begin

797
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: to have metabolized out of his system. She makes the

798
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: point that his levels were really high. That's why I

799
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 1: think that what this is going to come down to.

800
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: Did the medical examine the corner, go out there and

801
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: make an assessment of post mortem interval on the mother?

802
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,760
Speaker 1: Were they able to do a body temperature assess? Libra

803
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: mortis is settling of the blood and the degree to

804
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 1: which rider Mortis was set in because the timeframe here

805
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: is gonna be critical, particularly as it goes to this

806
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: point that the defense is trying to make. Yeah, he

807
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:19,719
Speaker 1: took a handful of bena drill, he went, you know,

808
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,880
Speaker 1: he went on the crazy wagon and killed his mom. Listen,

809
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 1: there are people that have psychotic breaks. It's been documented

810
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: with diafe and hydromine. It's really dangerous when you mix

811
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: dife and hydromine with something like like xan x. But

812
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,760
Speaker 1: to say that he he took bena drill, want nuts

813
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: and killed his mom in this violent way, I'm not

814
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: buying it. I'm not buying it for a second. Well,

815
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,560
Speaker 1: a typsychology screening shows that the levels of diafe and

816
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: hydramine were so high he could have taken one hundred

817
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: or more at twenty five milligrams appeal one hundred or more.

818
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: Where do you even get that much bena drill? Uh?

819
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 1: Dr Maroney? Is it possible to look at the toxicology

820
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 1: reports on the defendant, the twenty six year old son

821
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: and determined when he took the bena drill. What I'm

822
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: getting at, Dr Maroney is what if he killed his

823
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 1: mother and then try to o d on ben a drill. Well,

824
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,479
Speaker 1: you can tell if somebody took a lot of those

825
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 1: pills right away, then they only have the parent compound

826
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 1: in them, But if they were taken over a longer

827
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: period of time that goes back in the past, they

828
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 1: will have the metabolism products in them, because like all drugs,

829
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 1: like all medicines, like all chemicals, the body metabolizes them.

830
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: So high levels of metabolites and low levels of parent

831
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: compound would put you out. Saying that this may have

832
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: been days ago, been a drill of the brand name

833
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:04,160
Speaker 1: for a dipe and hydramine used to treat allergies. So

834
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: my question to you, um, what difference does it make

835
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: to you, Joseph Scott Morgan that Becky Apodaca had been

836
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: dead for hours and hours before she was found dead

837
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 1: in a bloody bed, What does that mean to you? Well?

838
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: What that what that tells me, Nancy, is that, uh,

839
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,240
Speaker 1: if they if they had an indication they that number

840
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 1: is coming from somebody you're saying hours and hours, That

841
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: means that they've done a post wardom assessment of her

842
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: at the scene. This is gonna be really hard if

843
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: if they can get a toxicologist on the stand in

844
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: this case to talk about how ben a drill metabolizes

845
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,879
Speaker 1: through the system, and if they're wise, they'll do this

846
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: and they'll talk about how just imagine a gigantic arc

847
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: a bell curve, if you will, you take it initially,

848
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,240
Speaker 1: it begins to ramp up, and then as your body

849
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: begins to push this stuff out of your system, it

850
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 1: dips down. If he's at that peak, tom Wise say,

851
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: they say that it peaks at two hours down range, Well,

852
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: she's been dead now thirteen hours. Those two timelines are

853
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: going to have to superimpose over one another for the

854
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,280
Speaker 1: defenses case to make sense. And right now it doesn't

855
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: sound like it does. Who would imagine that a generic

856
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,480
Speaker 1: bottle of in history could end in a murder like this.

857
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: The timing is important. When did this happen? How long

858
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 1: had he been in the closet? Did he take the

859
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:33,919
Speaker 1: bene jul after the murder? Can we tell that? Can

860
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: we tell that? Joseph Scott Morgan, Yeah, I think that.

861
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,759
Speaker 1: I think that there's a possibility that they can if

862
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 1: they have Uh, this is this is curious to me.

863
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: We hear about toxicology in the dead quite often, you know,

864
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: and it's just something that standard to standard. The Morgue.

865
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 1: I find it interesting that because that based upon the

866
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,399
Speaker 1: way he was behaving at the scene, that they drew

867
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,279
Speaker 1: talks on this guy, they held onto his blood, which

868
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,280
Speaker 1: on the part of the of the police was very

869
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 1: very uh wise, and then they ran talks on him.

870
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,840
Speaker 1: They connected that back to the pills that they found

871
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 1: on the floor. And what's really cool about this, Nancy,

872
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 1: is that they're going to be able to say they're

873
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,200
Speaker 1: gonna give a timeline not just with the body, but

874
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,439
Speaker 1: also with this mina drill, and they're gonna have people

875
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 1: that are gonna come in and testify that uh that, look,

876
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: he took this sometime after she was dead. That's that's

877
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: a pretty accurate marker. You know. Most people think that

878
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: in death investigation we can say, oh wow, yeah, I

879
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: can I can nail it down to a fifteen minute

880
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 1: time period. There is no way, but you get out.

881
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 1: We can kind of particularly this close to the lethal event,

882
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: we can look back and sometimes we can nail it

883
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: about three or four hours. That's a big gap for us,

884
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,759
Speaker 1: and that's a that's a target that's easy to hit,

885
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 1: particularly when you have this other marker of the toxicology

886
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 1: examples that they took on him after they took him

887
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,920
Speaker 1: into custody, telling you it'll be a torpedo to the

888
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: defense if it turns out he murdered his mother and

889
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,959
Speaker 1: then try to o d on ben A drill, which

890
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 1: may have been the only thing he could get his

891
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 1: hands on. Think about it, that changes everything. If he

892
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: murdered her first and then took the ben A drill,

893
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: that's an analysis I would make. There's a lot of

894
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: physical evidence here you've got to take into account to

895
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:30,879
Speaker 1: piece together the timeline. Eight. She was dead at eight am,

896
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: eight in the morning, which means this occurred who knows

897
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: during the night, during the early morning hours. We've got

898
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: to establish when she was last known to be alive,

899
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: the day or the night before. Then based on his blood,

900
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,080
Speaker 1: his toxicology, we've got to try to figure out if possible,

901
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 1: maybe there's another way to do it. Maybe he was texting,

902
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: maybe he was emailing. Um, there's a million ways you

903
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 1: can show what was happening in the home leading up

904
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 1: to Becky's murder. But they've got a piece together that,

905
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: along with the bloody toaster, the wet the soaking wet

906
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 1: floor rug, the two knives, bloody, the bloody bathtub, the

907
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: mom in the bed, was she dressed, was she naked?

908
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: Did you haven't her PJ? Did you have her close

909
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: with the day before? All of this will factor in,

910
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: and then, of course his blood, the toxicology may be

911
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: able to reveal when he took the Bene dril, or

912
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: maybe he told the police when he took the ben

913
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: and drill. Maybe we even have a purchase of ben

914
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 1: and Drill at a certain time. Who knows what the

915
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,200
Speaker 1: facts will reveal. This is all going down in the Vista,

916
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: California courtroom right now, and we are on it. You

917
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: want to hear the latest, log on to crime online

918
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 1: dot com to find out what exactly is going down

919
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,759
Speaker 1: in the courtroom. But I know this voluntary use of

920
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,440
Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol is not a defense. Otherwise, everybody in

921
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: the jail house right now say I was high, I'm

922
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: Ben and Jerill, and walk free to attack more innocent victims.

923
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: Let's see what lady justice unfolds in a court of law.

924
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: I mean, see, Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you

925
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: for being with us. Goodbye, friend.