1
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,600
Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm

2
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:14,600
Speaker 1: your host of Many Parasites Katie Golden. I studied psychology

3
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show, you can

4
00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,919
Speaker 1: pick your nose, you can pick your friends, and your

5
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 1: nose can pick your friends, Smell you later, can be

6
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 1: literal in the animal Kingdom, and some secret handshakes. Make

7
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,519
Speaker 1: sure you're in the click. Joining me today is author

8
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,479
Speaker 1: of John Dyes at the End and the Zoe Ash series,

9
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,520
Speaker 1: as well as the new book. If this book exists,

10
00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:44,440
Speaker 1: you're in the wrong universe. Jason Pargeon, Welcome once again.

11
00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 1: I have to remind myself this is a family friendly

12
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 1: show that fans know. Uh. I go to strange and

13
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: unusual places being a infamously dark and devious brain. It's

14
00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 1: there's the issue. I write different genres. This one's a

15
00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,280
Speaker 1: horror novel, so I for the interviews, I have to

16
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:10,119
Speaker 1: be horror guy. Um, and then when the next book

17
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:11,840
Speaker 1: comes at its sci fi, then I'll be I'll just

18
00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,759
Speaker 1: be a nerd again. But so right now I'm trying

19
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,680
Speaker 1: to really play up how dark and devious my mind is.

20
00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,800
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the show where I talk about

21
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,080
Speaker 1: parasites that like crawl out of your skin. So I

22
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,800
Speaker 1: don't think that's so much of a problem. Although I

23
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 1: guess this topic is somewhat toilet toilet based horror. Uh,

24
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 1: that's perfect for anyone who's read any of my books.

25
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,520
Speaker 1: There's a I have to confess a lot of toilet

26
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,480
Speaker 1: stuff in there. I mean, you know, toilet. The toilet

27
00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 1: is such a siminal part of our existence. I don't

28
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,480
Speaker 1: know why it's so taboo to talk about it. You know. Yeah,

29
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of seminal stuff in

30
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 1: there too. Um. I apologize for that. Uh, but the

31
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 1: to be serious for a second. One thing about horror

32
00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,800
Speaker 1: is it relies very very heavily on our base kind

33
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,040
Speaker 1: of instincts for disgust, you know, because we we are

34
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,200
Speaker 1: instinctively afraid of certain things. And it's a lot of

35
00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,240
Speaker 1: that is driven by evolution. Of course, things we are

36
00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 1: afraid of because we the ones who were not afraid

37
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,680
Speaker 1: of it did not live on to reproduce. Um. So

38
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 1: a lot of it is just you know, we're for example, um,

39
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,359
Speaker 1: a lot of aliens in order to make us disgusted

40
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,240
Speaker 1: by them, the very slimy well why you know, we

41
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,160
Speaker 1: have a visceral reaction to slime. We we viscerally want

42
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,959
Speaker 1: to reject it. We are very scared of zombies, even

43
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 1: though in the entire history of the planet no one

44
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,880
Speaker 1: has ever been injured or killed by a dead body.

45
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,280
Speaker 1: But we are viscerally disgusted by rott and rotting and

46
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,840
Speaker 1: rotting flesh. Because of course those sayings could make you

47
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,079
Speaker 1: sick if you were too close to them, or you know,

48
00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,639
Speaker 1: you could be contaminated. So this fits right in because

49
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,040
Speaker 1: when you see anything about in the animal kingdom, the

50
00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,720
Speaker 1: first thing you notice is they of course, even if

51
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,560
Speaker 1: you just have a pet, they are not disgusted by

52
00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,240
Speaker 1: the same things we are. It is very hard to

53
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 1: keep my dog from eating the pup it finds in

54
00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:18,600
Speaker 1: the yard. Uh, and it seems to enjoy it very much. Yeah,

55
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 1: my dog tried to eat a turd that had like

56
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,520
Speaker 1: a cigarette butt squished in the middle of it, like

57
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,640
Speaker 1: a candle on a little birthday cake. And she was

58
00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,760
Speaker 1: very upset that I didn't let her just like, you know,

59
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,639
Speaker 1: eat that thing. And yeah, actually, you know, when you're

60
00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,800
Speaker 1: bringing up the fear of like aliens and the fear

61
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:43,600
Speaker 1: of zombies, I think there was some I heard at

62
00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,160
Speaker 1: least somewhere that like clown makeup can appear kind of

63
00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,760
Speaker 1: scary or menacing because it looks somewhat similar potentially like

64
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 1: a rotting corpse where the eyes are sunken and the

65
00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,240
Speaker 1: mouth kind of uh discolors or something, and in the

66
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,520
Speaker 1: super pale white skin discoloration on a body or something,

67
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 1: and so that can that the weird proportions of a

68
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,480
Speaker 1: clown and the weird facial coloration could like be reminiscent

69
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,480
Speaker 1: of this strange coloration and strange proportions of like a

70
00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,880
Speaker 1: moldering corpse and equally weird. Um, when people have what

71
00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, I assume like sleep paralysis episodes where they

72
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,120
Speaker 1: think they're being abducted by aliens and they imagine these

73
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,760
Speaker 1: alien faces with very pale gray skin, very big dark eyes,

74
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,240
Speaker 1: um that there's something in the side, because many different

75
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,839
Speaker 1: people have described the same faces all over the world,

76
00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,560
Speaker 1: and UFO people say, well, see, that's evidence that the

77
00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,479
Speaker 1: aliens are real, when in reality is that that is

78
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,480
Speaker 1: evidence of when your mind is in a certain state

79
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,920
Speaker 1: and you're imagining being assaulted by something, there's a certain

80
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,600
Speaker 1: type of face you put on it. When when you're

81
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,360
Speaker 1: in a position where you're very afraid or whatever, and

82
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 1: for some reason we imprint like big emptied our guys.

83
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:05,560
Speaker 1: Uh and like a skin tone that's not healthy, right,

84
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,840
Speaker 1: like that's grayish or pale or something like. There's these

85
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 1: visceral reactions where like it kind of doesn't make logical sense.

86
00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,680
Speaker 1: It's like, well, why would you be afraid of a clown?

87
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 1: It's like why would you be afraid of any of

88
00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,839
Speaker 1: these things? It's like, well, there's some kind of primal thing.

89
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,520
Speaker 1: It taps into in the same way that there's all

90
00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,880
Speaker 1: these series about why fingernails on a chalkboard, they care

91
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:28,960
Speaker 1: our hair stand up on end. I guess they're like,

92
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 1: why would that tone, why would that specific you know,

93
00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,839
Speaker 1: vibration or noise be so upsetting to us? Um And

94
00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what they've ever landed on a theory,

95
00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 1: but it has something to do with that. If you

96
00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:41,919
Speaker 1: go back a million years, you'll find a species that

97
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,120
Speaker 1: is equally upset by that noise. Yeah, I mean it

98
00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 1: does sound a little bit like a bird of praise

99
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 1: call or something. I'm just speculating. I don't know, of course,

100
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,280
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it is interesting because the alteration

101
00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 1: of some of a face, like a face that's out

102
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 1: of a portion, with eyes that are too big or

103
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 1: too small, or a mouth that's too big. It's like that,

104
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: I think when something deviates from our mental map of

105
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 1: a face, which we actually when we're very very young infants,

106
00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:17,839
Speaker 1: we already have kind of a schema of what a

107
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 1: face should look like, and infants will look at things

108
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:27,920
Speaker 1: that represent like a human face and are much more

109
00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,960
Speaker 1: concerned when the when the face is kind of out

110
00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,840
Speaker 1: of proportion, and they don't really like that. And so yeah,

111
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,279
Speaker 1: I think like if something is sort of out of

112
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 1: order or kind of off, we feel very unnerved and

113
00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:47,200
Speaker 1: interestingly like this idea of being able to identify a friend,

114
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,560
Speaker 1: identify one of your species, but also identify someone you

115
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,919
Speaker 1: know is something that we share with animals. Like animals

116
00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:00,839
Speaker 1: can identify individuals, they can get upset when something is

117
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,560
Speaker 1: bizarre about a situation when it comes to identifying individuals,

118
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,280
Speaker 1: and it can be pretty gross. Also, So I do

119
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 1: want to talk about dolphins now. I feel like dolphins

120
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 1: are interesting because they either get a really bad rap

121
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,520
Speaker 1: of people saying, well, don't you know that dolphins are evil?

122
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 1: Or they're seen as this beautiful graceful, sort of philanthropic

123
00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,840
Speaker 1: wonder animal of the sea. Well, yeah, and also I

124
00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,120
Speaker 1: think the reason we have those attitudes towards them is

125
00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,000
Speaker 1: because it's weird having a creature that is supposedly intelligent

126
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,040
Speaker 1: but doesn't express it in any of the same ways. Yeah,

127
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,360
Speaker 1: Like like it's it's kind of similar to you know,

128
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:47,440
Speaker 1: how our attitude towards you know, primates um there when

129
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 1: you see them doing something distinctly human, like their facial

130
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 1: expressions or their gestures, you can either think that's cute

131
00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 1: or if, depending on how large and muscular the thing is,

132
00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: you can be find it terrifying because it's like the

133
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,720
Speaker 1: thing is too smart to not also know the rules

134
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,720
Speaker 1: of human behavior. So it's kind of the same thing.

135
00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:08,440
Speaker 1: It's like dolphins, if you don't know anything about how

136
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 1: they behave it's like, oh, they're just the humans of

137
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,000
Speaker 1: the sea. It's like, well, no, they they something can

138
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,440
Speaker 1: be very intelligent. Same thing with aliens, you know something,

139
00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,040
Speaker 1: they can be very intelligent but have no knowledge of

140
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,320
Speaker 1: any of the things that we think of as universal

141
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: laws of behavior. It's like, no, those are distinct to

142
00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,200
Speaker 1: our time and place and in culture. That's dolphins would

143
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,160
Speaker 1: not would not understand any of that right, And like

144
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,280
Speaker 1: some of the things they do that seems cruel to us,

145
00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,840
Speaker 1: like they will just smack the dickens out of octopuses.

146
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,160
Speaker 1: So they'll take an octopus and smash it against the

147
00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 1: water against rocks to like pulverize this poor octopus, and

148
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 1: it seems like it's just an act of cruelty, like

149
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,600
Speaker 1: it already seems dead and they keep smacking it, and

150
00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:58,640
Speaker 1: it seems like it is these dolphins being sadistic, But

151
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,520
Speaker 1: in reality, it's because they have to make sure that

152
00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 1: this octopus, if they swallow an octopus that's still a

153
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,920
Speaker 1: little bit alive, it's tentacles can like reach out and

154
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 1: try to prevent itself from getting swallowed and choked the

155
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 1: dolphin to death. So they've learned that they have to

156
00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 1: absolutely tenderized and pulverized and octopus before they can safely

157
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,199
Speaker 1: eat it. But to us it seems cruel like they're

158
00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,240
Speaker 1: just torturing an octopus before eating it, and torturing a

159
00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:34,000
Speaker 1: creature that is also shockingly intelligent for something that again

160
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,640
Speaker 1: does not look anything like people. But for example, they've

161
00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 1: recently started factory farming octopi as food and there's a

162
00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,040
Speaker 1: big protest movement saying this is not a creature that

163
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,840
Speaker 1: should be herded into giant pins, you know, in closed

164
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,679
Speaker 1: spaces and made to breed. And because they're like to

165
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 1: they're too smart for that. That is a whole other

166
00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,280
Speaker 1: episode we could do about at what point does a

167
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,920
Speaker 1: creature become too intelligent to put it in a farm

168
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 1: and turn it into just something that breeds to be

169
00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,400
Speaker 1: to make food for us. Yeah, I mean I agree

170
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,880
Speaker 1: with that, and also that I mean it's like, uh,

171
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, with octopuses, it's just it seems very difficult

172
00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:19,280
Speaker 1: to create a setting that they could live happily before

173
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,880
Speaker 1: being slaughtered. And you know, we could obviously the ethics

174
00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:25,720
Speaker 1: of slaughter as a whole other beast, but like, it

175
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 1: is feasible for some animals to like maybe not with

176
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 1: factory farming or cafoe farming, but it is feasible to

177
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 1: have an animal be able to live a relatively regular

178
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,320
Speaker 1: life on land before slaughter. But for something like an octopus,

179
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,679
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how you could do that. Like there

180
00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:49,679
Speaker 1: pasture is like the open ocean, so that's a little strange. Yeah,

181
00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,839
Speaker 1: they are very intelligent. There's some um, some researchers think

182
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 1: they might be able to dream. They're really good problem solvers.

183
00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,959
Speaker 1: And yeah, their lifespan is sad quite short, but the

184
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,720
Speaker 1: and it is, but it is really fascinating because they're

185
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 1: very close to being aliens on Earth. They evolved completely

186
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,560
Speaker 1: independently from us since the time we were both like

187
00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,920
Speaker 1: some kind of flatworms. So their brains, their eyes, all

188
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 1: this stuff evolved independently, and yet they still have these

189
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 1: recognizable intelligent behaviors. So that's it's very interesting. But you know,

190
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,319
Speaker 1: the dolphins when they're smacking these octopuses, they're not thinking

191
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,600
Speaker 1: about all these things, or so we think. Um. But yeah,

192
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,960
Speaker 1: I mean, like they can be brutal, like a lot

193
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 1: is made out of like that they kill other species

194
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,800
Speaker 1: of dolphins. Again, this is probably because they're like competing

195
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,840
Speaker 1: for food. Um. They'll sometimes ram sharks. Um. But I

196
00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:51,320
Speaker 1: think it's a little bit reductive to see dolphins as evil.

197
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,600
Speaker 1: After all, like humans do a lot of messed up stuff.

198
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,600
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't write off on our entire species is

199
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:02,319
Speaker 1: being evil. Um. And in fact, dolphins have a sweet side.

200
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,679
Speaker 1: They can be very friendly with other species and they

201
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:10,880
Speaker 1: can be really friendly with each other. Um. Sometimes bottle

202
00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 1: nose dolphins will actually coexist and even form pods with

203
00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 1: other dolphins species or other cetaceans like the short finned

204
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:24,439
Speaker 1: pilot whales. So bottlenose dolphins aren't just all antisocial assholes

205
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,600
Speaker 1: as sometimes people say they are. Yeah, it's that's the

206
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,199
Speaker 1: thing is. It's kind of in the Internet era, I think,

207
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,559
Speaker 1: is when the whole thing spread around it because the

208
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,080
Speaker 1: whole thing was a lot of you know, young girls

209
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:38,880
Speaker 1: grow up with like dolphins stickers on their on their

210
00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,679
Speaker 1: school supplies, or they you know, they get dolphins tattoos

211
00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 1: on their ankles. It's like they're beautiful. So I think

212
00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,720
Speaker 1: people consider it very cool in the early Internet days

213
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 1: to point out but yeah, it's silly to have that

214
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,000
Speaker 1: kind of binary for we were always projecting like human

215
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:56,199
Speaker 1: morality onto other creatures. It was a very silly thing

216
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,120
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, I mean it's it's it's fun to

217
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,199
Speaker 1: like point out, like, dolphins are not the Lease of

218
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,240
Speaker 1: Frank version of the animal. But yeah, they're not. They're

219
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 1: not I think seeing them as like secretly evil animals,

220
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,839
Speaker 1: they're they're they're just animals, you know, They're there. Some

221
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,720
Speaker 1: aspect of them are cruel, Some aspects of them are

222
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:19,640
Speaker 1: actually quite sweet. They can explain, you know, and it

223
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 1: varies from individual to individual or from pod to pod.

224
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,000
Speaker 1: Uh And there are some examples of dolphins actually being

225
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 1: extremely empathetic. In two thousand and eight, there was a

226
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,400
Speaker 1: bottle nose dolphin named Mocho who lived off the east

227
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,520
Speaker 1: coast of New Zealand and who saved a pygmy sperm

228
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,439
Speaker 1: whale in her calf who were stuck on a sandbar,

229
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 1: reportedly by calling out for them and leading them to

230
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,959
Speaker 1: deeper water. Uh. And in twenty nineteen, it was observed

231
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,000
Speaker 1: that a female bottle nose dolphin had adopted a young

232
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 1: melon headed whale and was caring for it as her

233
00:13:54,679 --> 00:14:00,360
Speaker 1: own offspring. And in Laguna, South Brazil, fisherman and dolphins

234
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,200
Speaker 1: have actually been fishing together since the late eighteen hundreds,

235
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 1: with dolphins driving fish into the nets of fishermen, which

236
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 1: benefits both the dolphins and the fisherman. The dolphins even

237
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,200
Speaker 1: make specific body gestures to tell the fishermen to deploy

238
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,120
Speaker 1: their nets, and so, you know, all these cases, it's

239
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,800
Speaker 1: it's interesting because it shows that dolphins are quite capable

240
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,480
Speaker 1: of pro social behavior. Even with the fishing example. If

241
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 1: you can see that as like, well, they're doing it

242
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,960
Speaker 1: because it also benefits themselves. I mean by it's basically

243
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 1: this happens actually quite a bit with cooperation between two

244
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 1: species and hunting. You're driving your prey into a bottle

245
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 1: neck where either they escape towards one predator or towards

246
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 1: the other. Actually, coyotes and badgers do this a little

247
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: bit with groundhogs another burrowing prey, where there's a coyote

248
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,040
Speaker 1: at one entrance to the borrow and a badger digging

249
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 1: out the other entrance of the borrow. So the the

250
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 1: little burrowing animal has to either go towards the coyote

251
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,040
Speaker 1: or towards the badger. And so this is what's happening

252
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 1: with the dolphins and the fisherman. The dolphins are driving

253
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,560
Speaker 1: the fish towards the net, and so the fish are

254
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,960
Speaker 1: kind of cornered between either the fisherman or the dolphins,

255
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 1: and so it gives these fish less avenues for escape.

256
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,520
Speaker 1: It kind of balls them up into these clusters, and

257
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 1: both the fisherman and the dolphins can just kind of

258
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:28,080
Speaker 1: scoop them out of the water. Interesting. Yeah, and so yeah,

259
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,360
Speaker 1: so you know they're they're very intelligent animals, but within

260
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 1: their species, they are seemingly capable of sustaining friendships, and

261
00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,360
Speaker 1: they can identify their friends through their unique whistles almost

262
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:46,400
Speaker 1: like these aren't names. But I did promise some gross

263
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 1: stuff rather than all this cute, touchy feely stuff, because

264
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 1: there is another way that they can identify their friends

265
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:58,680
Speaker 1: and leave a calling card, and that is ppe which,

266
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: as we know, the ocean is one gigantic toilet. Yeah,

267
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 1: and in fact that's what the word ocean means really

268
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:13,160
Speaker 1: in um in French means toilet, God's toilet, God's toilet

269
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 1: in old um Latin will say uh so uh. Dolphins

270
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,800
Speaker 1: have been observed exploring the warm spots behind other dolphins,

271
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,280
Speaker 1: which is the p p plume um, you know, because

272
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,680
Speaker 1: they're they're they're down for pretty much anything, apparently, and

273
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,640
Speaker 1: so of course, whenever something gross is happening in nature,

274
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 1: there's always a bunch of researchers clamoring to study it

275
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 1: and investigate it more closely, because when it comes down

276
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 1: to it, if you think the dolphins are freaky for

277
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 1: sniffing each other's p or even freakier for being really

278
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 1: voyeuristic and wanting to watch the dolphins sniffing each other's

279
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 1: p So what do they get of that though? Is it?

280
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,840
Speaker 1: Is it that every dolphin has distinct urine and that's

281
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:07,960
Speaker 1: how they like How does that determine whether or not

282
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 1: they want to be friends with that dolphin? Yeah, so

283
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 1: this is really interesting. Researchers put this to the test

284
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,800
Speaker 1: by dumping p into these pools with these dolphins that

285
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,240
Speaker 1: live at like these captive lagoon facilities in Hawaii and Bermuda. Basically,

286
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,080
Speaker 1: the researchers would put a test subject dolphin in a

287
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,879
Speaker 1: test pool and then dump either ice water, urine of

288
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 1: one of their friends, like a dolphin that they're familiar with,

289
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 1: or urine of a stranger into the pool, and the

290
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,159
Speaker 1: dolphin would investigate this this new liquid introduced to the pool,

291
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:49,199
Speaker 1: and they were super into tasting their friends urine, but

292
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 1: not so much the ice water or the urine of

293
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,920
Speaker 1: the stranger dolphin, which means that they can recognize their

294
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,640
Speaker 1: friends urine by taste and they are really interested in

295
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,840
Speaker 1: invest to gating it. How did the researchers collect the

296
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,960
Speaker 1: friend here and from the friend dolphin? I mean, you know,

297
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,399
Speaker 1: that's a really good question. I don't know, but what

298
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 1: I assume is they like waited for a dolphin a

299
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 1: p Maybe they had like a thermal camera or something

300
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,520
Speaker 1: and then just scooped it out with a cup. I

301
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,120
Speaker 1: don't know, I am only guessing maybe there's like a

302
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: little dolphin diaper you can put on and then kind

303
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,199
Speaker 1: of squeegee out. Yeah. I'm gonna search YouTube later to

304
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,160
Speaker 1: see how, because that sounds like by far the most

305
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,160
Speaker 1: difficult part of that experiment. Yeah, that's a safe thing

306
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,639
Speaker 1: to search how to collect dolphin p um you know,

307
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,119
Speaker 1: on the internet. Definitely recommend searching for that. But I

308
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,240
Speaker 1: feel like every listener right now is saying, well, now,

309
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:53,359
Speaker 1: hold on, my my dog does this? Like if my

310
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 1: dog comes along and another dog is p there, my

311
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,200
Speaker 1: dog runs over and smells it intensely and maybe p's

312
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,560
Speaker 1: on top of it, or it runs over and smells

313
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 1: at other dogs. But is this the same thing? Like

314
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,439
Speaker 1: is that are they getting the same thing out of

315
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,919
Speaker 1: it that my dog gets when it's trying to read it,

316
00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 1: Like when it meets a new dog, the first thing

317
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 1: that wants to do is smell it's But yeah, yeah,

318
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,880
Speaker 1: I mean it's probably very similar. The only differences are

319
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,719
Speaker 1: that the it's probably tasting the P the dolphin, not

320
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:28,560
Speaker 1: just smelling it. And also they're able to recognize the

321
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 1: connection between the P and their dolphin friends whistle. So,

322
00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 1: like I mentioned earlier, every dolphin kind of has a

323
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 1: unique whistle, which is kind of you could think of

324
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 1: it as like the dolphins name. And dolphins are really

325
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 1: interested when you present them both with the urine of

326
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 1: a friend and the whistle of their friend, like they

327
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 1: they taste even more P. I guess when they hear

328
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 1: the whistle because they think that this really means that

329
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 1: they're friend is nearby and they're they're really excited, um,

330
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 1: and so you know, I think it is. But it

331
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 1: is very similar to the whole dog butt sniffing dogs

332
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 1: sniffing pea kind of phenomenon. I guess. The I think

333
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 1: the issue is that we, because we're so humans, are

334
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,919
Speaker 1: so based on site. We are thinking, well, couldn't you

335
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,120
Speaker 1: just see that your friends, like if you're close enough

336
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 1: to drink as urine, like clearly you can see he's

337
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 1: right there. But I think and I think we may

338
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,560
Speaker 1: be overestimating how well dolfice can see each other at

339
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: the depths they're at. Is that is that possible? I mean,

340
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: I think that it's just the there their vision. They

341
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 1: can use their vision, but I think like their sense

342
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 1: of hearing and their sense of taste and smell are

343
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,920
Speaker 1: just much more um accurate and more um usable under

344
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 1: the water than their vision. Like vision underwater is a

345
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 1: little tricky with like how light reflects, Like see, creature

346
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 1: can see underwater, but you can't see very far. So

347
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,360
Speaker 1: if your friend peas and then moves on kind of

348
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, just like a several meters away, it might

349
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 1: be harder to see them because of how thick water

350
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 1: is compared to air in terms of how light can

351
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 1: pass through it. So making use of uh, taste and

352
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:29,639
Speaker 1: smell and sonar and you're hearing underwater can be really

353
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 1: really useful compared to vision. And it's interesting because even

354
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,800
Speaker 1: uh some terrestrial animals really capitalize on smell over vision.

355
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: Like dogs have decent vision, but they have incredible smell.

356
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 1: And so when you take your dog on a walk,

357
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: you might notice that they're much more interested in smelling

358
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 1: things getting their nose around than just looking around. And

359
00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 1: that's because their perception is based on smell primarily and

360
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: also hearing. And then you know they do have okay, vision,

361
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: but they're less visual creatures than we are, and they're

362
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 1: much more interested in the smells of things. That I

363
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: think is secretly what this episode is going to be about,

364
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 1: because I think as humans were so heavily like everything

365
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,440
Speaker 1: is by sight and then you know, second secondly by sound,

366
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 1: and you know, as you're going to get into later,

367
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: the concept of identifying your friends by smell is like

368
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: serial killer stuff, like that's what Hannibal Lictor did, the

369
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,920
Speaker 1: idea that a dog's nose is so sensitive that can

370
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: smell a spot and instantly know everything that happened in

371
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 1: that spot over the last few days, like it's getting

372
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: a news report on that spot we can't really comprehend

373
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: because you know, we we can look and visually see,

374
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: oh there was a rainstorm here, or oh there was

375
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,520
Speaker 1: you know, there's something there's this thing has been damaged

376
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: or whatever, and you can kind of reconstruct what has

377
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: occurred there. But whereas a dog can say, hey, you know,

378
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: a pair of squirrels had sex on this spot seven

379
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 1: two hours ago, where it's almost like a look into

380
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 1: the past because all of these traces remain of everything

381
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: that is urinated there. Stepped on that spot, you know,

382
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: somebody dropped a hot dog here two days ago, but

383
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: then they picked it up again. Um, and they can

384
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: get there getting so much information out of smelling. And

385
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: so when they do smell each other's butts or whatever,

386
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: I always felt like they're getting like a version of

387
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: that other dog's life story or that. You know, when

388
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: the a dolphin, you know it gets when it ingests

389
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: that urine. It's not just like m P like it

390
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: presumably is sensitive enough and to be able to detect

391
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: all sorts of things about hormone levels, you know, what

392
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 1: state of fear is it in? What state of health

393
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 1: is it in? It almost would I would assume that

394
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 1: through those chemicals it can deduce not it's not conscious

395
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 1: of all this. It's a form of communication. And since

396
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,399
Speaker 1: that it can get like an update on its status, right,

397
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: because if it was unhealthy, if it was you know,

398
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: if it's kidneys were failing or whatever, that would be apparent.

399
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 1: And it's urine, it would be different. Yeah, that's super possible.

400
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: In fact, researchers their next goal is to see like

401
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 1: what compounds in the urine dolphins can detect and what

402
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: they're using to identify their friends, so they may very

403
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: well find that there's a lot of information these dolphins

404
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 1: can use from from this sampling this year. And even

405
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: though it sounds gross to us, it's like, we use

406
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: that kind of system in zoos, like zookeepers will test

407
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,360
Speaker 1: the feces of animals to check on their health. And

408
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 1: so you know the fact that dolphins maybe using urine

409
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: to determine details about other dolphins. You know, it's it's

410
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: it's gross, but it gets right to the point. Earlier

411
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about the kind of these uncanny valley

412
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: situations for humans, like weird faces with clowns. One of

413
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: the things for me is like when you think you

414
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: see a friend, uh, and then but it's not that friend,

415
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: where you think you see your own doppelganger, and it's

416
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: it's not really them. Like those kinds of situations really

417
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,159
Speaker 1: like send a chill down my spine. And actually, with urine,

418
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 1: we have created an uncanny valley situation for elephants uh

419
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 1: in experiments. So there's this case of elephants where they

420
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: they can identify their friends from smelling their urine um

421
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: and they there was there are these researchers trying to

422
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 1: see if this was the case. They would collect the

423
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: urine from an elephant in like a group of elephants

424
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 1: that were traveling together and put it in like a

425
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: tupperware container and then later put it like in front

426
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: of the group of elephants. And so for these elephants,

427
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 1: sometimes they would smell these and it if it belonged

428
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: to an elephant that was like at the back of

429
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,919
Speaker 1: the parade of elephants. They get really confused and stand

430
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,680
Speaker 1: there and smell and like kind of make a commotion

431
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: because to them it seemed like that elephant just teleported.

432
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: They're smelling this year and in front of them, and

433
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: then they look behind them and they see, like George's

434
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: urine is here, but then George's way back there. How

435
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,199
Speaker 1: did he get in front of them without them seeing

436
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: him move in front of them and like p there,

437
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: And so they get they freak out. They get really confused,

438
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: which I think is Uh, It's interesting how that kind

439
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: of sensation of like wait, this is not possible happens

440
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 1: to elephants. And it makes me wonder sometimes like we

441
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: mess with elephants like that. I wonder if aliens ever

442
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 1: do weird experiments on us. And that's you know, when

443
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: we were seeing a doppelganger or you know, weird unexplained occurrences,

444
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: and it's just some kind of like alien researcher doing

445
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: the equivalent of collecting elephant urine and tupperware and putting

446
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: it somewhere doesn't belong. And I know, I'm sure some

447
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: people get annoyed at the talk of like aliens because

448
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: of course there's no evidence we've been visited by aliens

449
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I will say this, Uh, if they

450
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: were as intelligent to us as we are to elephants,

451
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: like if they were that far above us, they would

452
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: find it just as easy to deceive us, Like like

453
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: the elephant would never figure out, oh, they collected the

454
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,400
Speaker 1: yurine and a type of ware container and just put

455
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 1: it here in the same thing like we are. We

456
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: we kind of cannot comprehend the idea that a creature

457
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: could be way more intelligent than we are, because how

458
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: can you imagine something smarter than you? It just doesn't work.

459
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: And we always assume, like, well, we figure it out,

460
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: like we would notice, Like no, not really, because our

461
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: thought patterns would be just as simplistic to them as

462
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 1: the elephants are to us, like we would be mysterious

463
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: to them in the same way that we don't completely

464
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: know how dolphins work, but at the same time, it's

465
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: not like a thing where we would for sure figure

466
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: out what they were doing. That's one of the creepier

467
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: concepts I know. Um. The second creepiest concept you mentioned,

468
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: like when they saw the urine of the elephant is

469
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: back there and they're like, hey, that's that's George's urine.

470
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: The concept of animals having names, like you mentioned earlier

471
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: that the that the dolphins had a distinct whistle that

472
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: almost served as a name for them. That is a

473
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: fascinating concept to me because when you're like training a dog,

474
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: the first thing they tell you is that the name

475
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: you gave the dog, the dog doesn't know that's their name.

476
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: To the dog, that is a command that means look,

477
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: attend to me, look at me, do what I'm asking

478
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: you to do. So if you shout rufus, the dog

479
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: does not think, oh, rufus, that's me. The dog thinks, oh,

480
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: that's the noise the human makes to to make me

481
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: return to them. So the idea of the dog having

482
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: a a like, are they conscious enough to have a

483
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 1: personal identity and no like I have I am a

484
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 1: distinct individual and these other dogs are other distinct individuals,

485
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: Like do they have a concept of the mind, like

486
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 1: these are other dogs? So that is a whole rabbit

487
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: hole you could go down and probably its own episode

488
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: because when they smell the urine, like they know the

489
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: concept of how many elephants are in the herd, they

490
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: know which one is which. But in their minds whatever

491
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: serves as an animal's mind, and they have something of

492
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: a mind. We humans have names we assigned to people,

493
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: but how would an animal who they don't have, you know,

494
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: a verbal language, So how do they conceptualize? Are they

495
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: just imagining a series? Is like? Is it literally in

496
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: their head? As just a pie smell? You see what

497
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like if you took the elephant we just

498
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: called George and painted him a different color, but as

499
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: Peace smelled the same, his roar from his trunk sounded

500
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: the same, everything else was the same. Would they have

501
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: no problem recognizing that as George because it's like the

502
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: fact that he's a different colors is irrelevant because in

503
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: their minds, elephant, in their minds, the name George is

504
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: instead of in an elephants mind, it's just a series

505
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: of sense or calls or noises or vibrations through the

506
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: ground or however however else you know elephants do what

507
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: they do. I mean, it's such an interesting question because

508
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: I think that, like what you're talking about in terms

509
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: of consciousness is like, I think something can be fully

510
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 1: conscious but not have a meta cognition of thinking about itself.

511
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: So I feel like a dog, it is very intelligent.

512
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: I think it's conscious, like very conscious, very aware, but

513
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: I don't think it has a meta cognition, or at

514
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: least there's no evidence that it has a meta cognition

515
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: about its own existence. So it like it just kind

516
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: of exists and feels things, but doesn't necessarily think about

517
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: itself as a unique individual. That doesn't mean it doesn't

518
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: have uh emotions connecting to itself, Like it can want

519
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: things and love things and dislike things. But that sense

520
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,479
Speaker 1: of self might be kind of unclear to them. It

521
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: may it's like something they it doesn't even occur to

522
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: them to really think about. And I think they recognize

523
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 1: other individuals, like their owners or other dogs they like,

524
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: or even other species that they recognize, again without thinking

525
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: of this concept of self versus other However, we do

526
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: know they understand things like visual perceptive fields. So there

527
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: are these hilarious experiments with dogs where they have an

528
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: experiment or in the room, and there are a few

529
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: different types of situations. One in which they leave treats

530
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: out and they order the dog to sit and to

531
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: not take the treats. And so these are dogs that

532
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: are trained, who know that, who know what these commands mean. Uh,

533
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: And when the experiment er is looking at the dog

534
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: and looking at the treats, the dog will often sit

535
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: there and not try to steal the treat because it

536
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 1: knows that supposed to do that to behave if the

537
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: experiment or turns their back on the dog, and I'm

538
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: sure dog owners kind of recognize this behavior, Like if

539
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 1: you're not looking at your dog, and your dog can

540
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: tell you're not looking at it, then it will often

541
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: take the chance of being naughty, So then the dog

542
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: might go for the treat sometimes. And like most of

543
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: the cases of the dog that's experimented on, like if

544
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: they if the owner gives the command and then leaves

545
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: the room, almost all of them just immediately go and

546
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: take the treat um, but some of them will even

547
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: like try to be sneaky. So if the experimenters in

548
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: the room but with their gaze not directly at the

549
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: treat but sort of off to the side, the dog

550
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: will take sort of the circuitous path, how ding behind

551
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: things to try to get at the treat without the

552
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 1: observer watching them. So they can have complex concepts like

553
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: understanding that the observer can have it has a different

554
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: visual field than they do and is observing things without

555
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: necessarily conceptualizing the self and then the other person. So

556
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: or you know, they may have some kind of rudimentary

557
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: understanding of that. It's probably very different from our own,

558
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: but that is one of the it's one of the

559
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: key questions I think that animal behaviorists look at. It's like,

560
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: to what degree does an animal have that concept of self?

561
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: And there's some evidence that like dolphins may have that

562
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: developed more. They're very interested in mirrors, you know, they're

563
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: they're highly intelligent. There's also some research trying to find

564
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: out if elephants have that concept of self like they

565
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: sometimes like this. There's this famous thing known as the

566
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: mirror test, where you do something to animals face or

567
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: put a dot on them and you see if they like, uh,

568
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: investigate that dot that's on themselves in the mirror, which

569
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: would indicate that they understand that there's a connection between

570
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: themselves and the thing in the mirror. And I think,

571
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, elephants have on occasion done something

572
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: that indicates that they make that connection to the mirror

573
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: where they like ad just they have like a piece

574
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: of hay on their head or something, and then they

575
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 1: see that in the mirror and then they try to

576
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: pull it off of themselves. But yeah, it is I

577
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: don't think we have a definitive answer to that, and

578
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: once we do, we're going to know way more about

579
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: animal cognition and probably our own consciousness, which we barely

580
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: understand us. It is well right because when we try

581
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: to imagine being an animal, we imagine things like having

582
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: an internal monologue, which is something that didn't develop in

583
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: humans probably until we had language. Like you don't have

584
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: to go back that far in our own evolutionary treat

585
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: of find humans that don't have like this internal thought

586
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: processed the way we the thing that we think of

587
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: that that that like defines a human is a fairly

588
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 1: recent development. As far as we know, no other creature

589
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: has it. And you can function just fine without it.

590
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: You can function just fine as an intelligent being without that,

591
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,879
Speaker 1: without having the internal you know, thoughts and all that.

592
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: Um that because our thinking the way, you know, when

593
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: we're trying to make a decision about what do we

594
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: do this or do we do this, we're running through

595
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: it in our head almost verbally or you know, and

596
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: we think that's the only way to process thoughts or

597
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 1: the process cognition, and of course it's it's not. Um

598
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: you know, we have machines that can make those decisions now,

599
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: and they're not They don't have an internal monologue or

600
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: an identity. They just they can judge, you know, a

601
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: self driving cars like do we turn here? Do we

602
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: turn here? Do we have to do this to avoid

603
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: this obstacle? But the car is not thinking to itself

604
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,240
Speaker 1: like okay, okay, Tesla, now this thing the things about

605
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: to get into our way in the roads, we better

606
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: slow down, Like it doesn't need to do that. It

607
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: just does it. But it's still intelligent. It's still going

608
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,880
Speaker 1: through the you know, all of the steps of processing

609
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,359
Speaker 1: and information, but without anything like what we would call consciousness.

610
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 1: And these are all things are going to come up

611
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: as we make smarter and smarter machines, Like, again, at

612
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,279
Speaker 1: what point do they do? We have to treat it

613
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: like a person, and that's going to be difficult because

614
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: we will probably never have one that has like an

615
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: internal monologue or thoughts the way we have. But the

616
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: question is going to be, well, okay, but why is

617
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: that the thing that defines whether or not we mistreat

618
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: a creature or or an entity. I mean, it's interesting

619
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: because even within humans, like that inner monomologue that you described,

620
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: it doesn't describe every humans experience, like there are exactly

621
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: there are you know, people who um function and like

622
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: socially you know, totally socially acceptable ways where it's you

623
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily be able to tell this about them just

624
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: from talking to them, But they report not having that

625
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: inner monologue. They like don't talk to themselves in their head,

626
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: even though they can speak perfectly well. Um, but they

627
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: experience like images, emotions, sensations as sort of their inner thoughts.

628
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: But it's not organized as like a voice or words. Um,

629
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: which is it's I think it's a form of a

630
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 1: fantasia where it is you you're when you are sort

631
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: of in your mind, you're not thinking in sort of

632
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: images um, like clear, clearly constructed images. That's like the

633
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: typical sort of form of it. But I guess also

634
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: not thinking in terms of words or a voice is

635
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: a form of it. And it's interesting because people I've

636
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: I've read experiences of people where they're shocked to find

637
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: out that people you have like an inner voice, and

638
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: that sounds weird to them. Um. And so this concept

639
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: that you know, animals aren't aware because they don't have

640
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: a language, it's like, well, no, I think they can

641
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: definitely have coherent thought without a language. But it's just

642
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: it's so once you have that inner monologue and that's

643
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: how you think, it is really hard to conceptualize how

644
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: someone thinks without it, even though it happens. Yeah, And

645
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: so example, all these creatures, which is, you know, more

646
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: than the creatures that are like us, the ones that

647
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: base everything on smell, Like if they had a version

648
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: of an internal monologue, it would be a series of smells.

649
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: But that's that's almost incomprehensible like to a human because

650
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: we we've devalued what our nose does to the point

651
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: that you know, we still use it, but in terms

652
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: of like how we socialize, we we don't ever again,

653
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: think of it as being unless you're detecting how much

654
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: someone has bathed or something obvious wearing much cologne. Um,

655
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,960
Speaker 1: the idea of interpreting the entire world through how it

656
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: smells and how its smell has changed. You can try

657
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: to imagine it, but you you know, you really can't.

658
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: And on that note, we're going to take a quick

659
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: break and then when we get back, we're gonna talk

660
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: about whether your noves can pick your friends? So we uh,

661
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,720
Speaker 1: we're just talking about how for some animals, their sense

662
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: of smell is integral to the way they think, the

663
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: way they communicate, in the way that they identify their friends.

664
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: But is this the case for humans at times? I

665
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: mean consciously, um, you know no, unless by saying pick

666
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: your friends it's like, well, I don't want to hang

667
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 1: out with someone who's too stinky. But in terms of

668
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: the more subtle things of like can you recognize your

669
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: friend's smell? Um, and like can you tell anything really

670
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: about a person based on their smell when it's a

671
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: really subtle scent and it is not it's not something

672
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: that has to do with their perfume or the soap

673
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: that they're wearing. Because humans, we have a sense of smell,

674
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: but it is not nearly as sensitive as a lot

675
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: of other animals, and in social interactions were extremely visually

676
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: um focused as well as audio focus, so we rely

677
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: on hearing, sight, or touch, but we hardly use smell

678
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: at all and social interactions, if anything, we kind of

679
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 1: try to avoid smells human smells, or use like deodorant

680
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: or artificial smells to cover up our natural body odors

681
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 1: because we find them unappealing. So you know, our main

682
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,359
Speaker 1: way of communicating is not through smells, but through like

683
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: facial expressions or language or sounds or touch. This is

684
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,879
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to send us on down too much

685
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,799
Speaker 1: of a rabbit hole here, but this is one of

686
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: my i unpopular beliefs, truly unpopular, to the point wherever

687
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: you expressed this in polite company or on the internet,

688
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 1: people just pile pile on you. Which is that the

689
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: our thing, our American Western thing, of showering every day

690
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: and shampooing your hair every day and putting on delorant

691
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 1: at least once a day, that is weird, Like through

692
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 1: all of civilization, through all of the civilizations that have existed,

693
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 1: the idea of bathing every single day and then like

694
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 1: socially shunning anyone who doesn't because the completely normal smell

695
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: of a human being that is functioning that we consider

696
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: that disgusting. That is a curious and weird thing that

697
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: I know dates back to living in cities and then

698
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: and then being you know more, having to be more

699
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: afraid of like disease outbreaks and germs, things like that,

700
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 1: having to be obsessive about controlling like sanitation. All these

701
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: are very recent inventions. And so as a result of this,

702
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: being afraid of any kind of a foul smell, any

703
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: kind of a hint of uncleanliness, it makes sense that

704
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 1: in this era, this very recent era of our evolution,

705
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 1: where we're living in close proximity two hundreds of thousands

706
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 1: of other people, when you're sharing the subway with all

707
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 1: these people, that it would make sense to develop a

708
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: kind of superstition around anyone who doesn't smell like they

709
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: just washed, which is but it is a superstition like that.

710
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: That's not that's not the natural, healthy way to live.

711
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 1: And in fact, we have shelves full of products that

712
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 1: have to put like the moisture back in your skin

713
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: because you're drying yourself out by constantly by bathing too much,

714
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: or or this shampoo that restores the oils that you

715
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: just washed out of your hair. Um. But and this

716
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: the reason it's a source spot with me is because

717
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: there are certainly some countries on Earth where people do

718
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: not bathe that often, and when we visit there as tourists,

719
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: we talk about what a filthy, terrible third world hellhole

720
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: this is because the people stink. It's like, no, they

721
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: smelled like people. It's a smell you're unfamiliar with because

722
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: you're in a you're in a you're in one of

723
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 1: the rare unique cultures that had the luxury of this

724
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: much fresh water to just waste with relentless bathing. It

725
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: would agree that it's almost like a religious thing with

726
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: us to the like that we considered a moral failing

727
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 1: if you don't bathe enough. Yeah, which you know, there's

728
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: a lot of sociological problems too with that, where you know,

729
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: it's like bathing is associated with being um more more

730
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: well off financially, because you have access to a shower,

731
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: you have the time to bathe. Um, you work in

732
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: an in a sort of a field where you're not

733
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: getting too stinky, and so we kind of associate it

734
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: with like, oh, you're you're a well to do person

735
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: and so this is a good thing. And yeah, but

736
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: but you're right, like overwashing like our body Like I'm

737
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: not saying you never should wash, but our bodies do

738
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 1: produce a lot of natural oils um called like sebam

739
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: that of course, it's like it gets a bad rap

740
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 1: because an excess it can cause acne and it can

741
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: get infected. But it uh is a protective, uh sort

742
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: of greasy substance that is generally good for your your

743
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: skin and your scalp. That's why we produce it, and

744
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 1: so over washing can actually cause problems skin problems, scalp problems. UM.

745
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's sort of spirals into a vicious cycle. Like

746
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:50,879
Speaker 1: for me, I have to um shower almost every day

747
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,839
Speaker 1: or my scalp gets really itchy because I am like

748
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: allergic to A. I think it's like a it's this

749
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 1: common human sort of fungus that normally is fine, but

750
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 1: some people are sort of allergic to it and it's

751
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 1: got it's called support dermatitis UH, which is a fancy

752
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 1: name for like you get an itchy scalp and dandruff,

753
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: but probably you know part of that is you can

754
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 1: dry out your scalp and that can leave you more

755
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: vulnerable to things like that. And so, UM, now I'm

756
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 1: I'm trapped in a cycle of needing to shampoo all

757
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: the time. Uh, but you know, so, yeah, it is

758
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: it is interesting that we we uh really are sort

759
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: of an uh kind of an unusual animal because we

760
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: reject so much our natural smell, but we also don't

761
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: use it socially that much. Um. But there is research

762
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: that suggests we have not completely ditched the smellier side

763
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: of our evolutionary history and may subconsciously use odor as

764
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 1: a way to determine who our friends are and what

765
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: our compatibility is with people. And um, there there's been

766
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: a lot of studies on this. Uh. Sometimes they're like,

767
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: uh somewhat uh flimsy, like I think the uh there's

768
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 1: like a body odor and like compatibility with like romantic

769
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: partners study, but that it just had an extremely small

770
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 1: sample size. Um. And and these studies as well, they're

771
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: they're not concrete, but it isn't an interesting line of inquiries.

772
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: So researchers conducted as study looking at people who described

773
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: their friendships as instantly clicking, and they dragged them into

774
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: an old factory lab harvested their body odor and compared

775
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: them chemically, and they found that the body odor of

776
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: these friends were more chemically similar than that of two

777
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 1: random strangers. And in the second part of their study,

778
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: they brought together groups of strangers and had them do

779
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 1: bonding activities and then they observed these interactions and ranked

780
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: the friendlyness of them. Which sounds like everyone who has

781
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: social anxiety, that's like your worst nightmare that there's some

782
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: observer watching you ranking how friendly you are. UM. But

783
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: that's exactly what they did, and they found that in

784
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: the pairs that were ranked as having more positive interactions

785
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: also had more chemically similar body odors. Now here are

786
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,920
Speaker 1: the um issues with the study. Uh, it had a

787
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: very narrow definition of friendship, and it had a very

788
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: small sample size around like twenty people for each study. UM.

789
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: And Also, if you're thinking like, oh, this means that

790
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: people who are like physiologically similar must also you know,

791
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: be compatible be friends, I had don't think this study

792
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: finds that body odor is not completely determined by like genetics.

793
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: It's also determined by diet and lifestyle. So it's possible

794
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: that like a similarity in lifestyle could predict both body

795
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:19,799
Speaker 1: odor similarity and also your personality being similar with other

796
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: people and being able to click with them, um and

797
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: actually have nothing to do with people subconsciously enjoying each

798
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: other's smell. So I think, like, I would really like

799
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 1: to see more research in this area. I don't think

800
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 1: it's I don't think these studies are convincing to me

801
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: that we like can smell out our friends, But I

802
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: do think it is interesting that there may be some

803
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 1: kind of link between body odor and compatibility and whether

804
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,720
Speaker 1: it and you know, like, I would like to see

805
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: if there's like if you did a study and you

806
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,880
Speaker 1: blocked participants ability to smell each other, but you still

807
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 1: found these results. I think that would be really interesting

808
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: because it'd be indicating that somehow your body odor is

809
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 1: linked to maybe lifestyle that signals compatibility rather than being

810
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: able to smell each other. But I think those are

811
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 1: I would guess, and I'm no expert in any subject.

812
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,959
Speaker 1: To be frank, I think that those aren't necessarily saying

813
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 1: the things that if you said that in our early

814
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 1: in our evolution, we used to back before we bathed,

815
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: the way all of our natural oils and all the

816
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: things that we secreted our hormones. All that that if

817
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: you ran into another primitive human in the wild, that

818
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 1: your that their scent would tell you this person eats

819
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: a similar diet. They eat a lot of fish, means

820
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: they live by the river. You know, um, all of

821
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: the other things you can smell about a person that

822
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: they are from a similar background to you. Oh, this

823
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: is another of the river people, right, because they've got

824
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: the smell of of the moss on them, or the

825
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: smell of the there from the beach. They've got the

826
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 1: smell of the salt water on them. These are the

827
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 1: coast people. They've got Um that it doesn't necessarily have

828
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 1: to be you know, you're a genetic scent that it's

829
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: it's like genes identifying genes. That it could be like

830
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 1: I'm identifying a lifestyle here, whereas if I smelled someone

831
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 1: who smelled of a hunter, those are the hunting people.

832
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 1: We hate them. He smells like animals, He smells like

833
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: animal guts. He smells like you smell and you get

834
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: an animal and you get there the bio and all

835
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,479
Speaker 1: the stuff in your hands, Like that's the scent of

836
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: the hunter tribe, and I'm it seems it seems implausible

837
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: that we wouldn't use all of our senses. Humans are

838
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: social animals. We survived by being able to identify, that's

839
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: why we're so tribal. We survived by being able to

840
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: quickly decide who we wanted to be friends with, who

841
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: we wanted to ally with. Things like that. It seems

842
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,080
Speaker 1: like it would be weird, especially in a pre language

843
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:07,719
Speaker 1: stage of our evolution, if we didn't use sent the

844
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: way all of these other creatures do. Because you know,

845
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: we have sent for many reasons. It's not just for

846
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,719
Speaker 1: finding food. It's for all sorts of things, you know,

847
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: detecting when something is on fire. But I think my

848
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,359
Speaker 1: personal theory, again not a scientist, I think today when

849
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: culturally we do everything we can to cover up our

850
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,839
Speaker 1: scent so that we try to use like we try

851
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 1: to manipulate our sense to send signals Like I'm wearing

852
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: an expensive perfume, I'm signaling that is a social signal.

853
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: But I've chosen that rather than letting this the natural

854
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 1: musk from my armpits signal to potential boyfriends. What that

855
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm that I'm ready to mate? Um that I would

856
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: think that now and again, please This is me speculating now.

857
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: A lot of times when we meet one and instantly

858
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,879
Speaker 1: decide we don't like their vibe. If and if it's

859
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: not like, well he had a giant tattoo of a

860
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 1: spider on his neck, I don't mean that, but when

861
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: but go on right that, when you sense the you

862
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,080
Speaker 1: know that the you you sense that there's something off.

863
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people credit it to like

864
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 1: intuition or instinct that I think a lot of it

865
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: is things like their scent, that it's subtle enough that

866
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 1: it doesn't he you consciously like, oh, this person reads

867
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: of alcohol, not like that, but enough that it's this

868
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: is a person that drinks a lot, like they've not

869
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 1: drink today, it's not on their breath. That there may

870
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: be some subtle thing in there. And the thing about

871
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: whether or not, like men can detect if a woman

872
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 1: is ovulating stuff like that, I don't know at the experiments,

873
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,399
Speaker 1: And I know that the people who used to read

874
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 1: Cracked probably are saying, well, didn't you guys post a

875
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 1: out of articles on Cracked with that factory down it? Look,

876
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: we didn't know that none of the stuff replicated. At

877
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: the time, we thought if there was in a scientific

878
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: American like, hey, they just didn't experiment women can detect,

879
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, different men by their their body odor, that

880
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 1: by putting, and that we didn't know that. When you

881
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: try to repeat those experiments, they fall through. It is

882
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: extremely difficult to do those experiments because things like collecting

883
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: sweat and then adding it with a dropper to a shirt, well,

884
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 1: that's not exactly the same thing. And I don't think

885
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,239
Speaker 1: it's smelling the scent on a piece of clothing in

886
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,720
Speaker 1: a room. That doesn't. I think it's seeing the person

887
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: face to face and getting the whole picture, all the

888
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: little micro expressions on their face, all of their gestures,

889
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: the way what they do with their hands, and you're

890
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 1: seeing all these little signals about what type of person

891
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: they are, with their fingernails look like, all the stuff

892
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: that you're not consciously you're not like Sherrock Holmes, like

893
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 1: going through is like, ah, he has plucked eyebrows. That

894
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 1: means he's They that are the whole picture of the person,

895
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: including their scent. I think that's the thing we call vibe.

896
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 1: Before you've talked to them, before you've noticed what brands

897
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: they're wearing, before you asked them what they do for

898
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: a living. You see what kind of car they drive.

899
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: I think that that sometimes when you instantly feel at

900
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: ease around a person, I think some percentage of that

901
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: is there is their scent. It's what it's what scientists

902
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 1: refer to as the vibe check. Um. Yeah, no, I

903
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: mean I I tend to agree, So I don't know, right,

904
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: Like the research on our on humans ability to pick

905
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: up these things from odor is a little bit fraught

906
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: and definitely not complete, But just looking at the kind

907
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: of more obvious behaviors of people, I do think smell

908
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 1: plays quite a role in our society. I mean there's

909
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: a lot of things where it's like the smells of um,

910
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:03,439
Speaker 1: of food that is unfamiliar to you, Like people will

911
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: sometimes complain about food that's from another country, like the

912
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: smell of it, and they will use that as sort

913
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: of a way to be maybe like xenophobic or or

914
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,879
Speaker 1: complain about like this other group, whereas like it can

915
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:25,680
Speaker 1: also be something more positively social, like you, um, you

916
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: kind of like identify certain smells and have a memory

917
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: linked with them, Like there are certain smells that I

918
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: whenever I smell them, I like remember something like my

919
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:39,879
Speaker 1: kindergarten class, Like smelling a glue stick brings me right

920
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: back to kindergarten. And so I think that there's still

921
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: a lot of things that smell do in terms of

922
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,240
Speaker 1: our socialization. Even though we have a much weaker sense

923
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: of smell than say a dog or an elephant, we

924
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: I think that it does make these highly emotional links

925
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: and we can like, like everyone knows what the smell of,

926
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 1: like say, fall is in their culture. Like for some

927
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: people it's like, you know, the smell of cinnamon or something.

928
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 1: For other people it may be the smell of sort

929
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: of wet dirt or something. But we have these kind

930
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: of categories of smells, and so I do think it

931
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,439
Speaker 1: is it's very plausible that we do the same thing

932
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: with people. And even if you know, I mean, I

933
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: think it even counts when we're using like artificial smell,

934
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 1: Like you may have a family member that always uses

935
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 1: the same perfume or something, and then you associate that

936
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: perfume with that family member, and then you have a

937
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 1: positive or negative reaction to that perfume. So yeah, I think, um,

938
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 1: I think it is. I think that smell is something

939
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:57,439
Speaker 1: that is it's so such an interesting sense right, because

940
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: it's so it's very hard to describe a smell other

941
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,359
Speaker 1: than just like making the connection to that thing, like

942
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,760
Speaker 1: what is the smell of cinnamon? Well, it smells like cinnamon,

943
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: but actually describing that smell kind of in detail is

944
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 1: really difficult. Like, um, it's easier to describe taste, maybe

945
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: even than smell because it's such a complex sensation, and

946
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: so it's really hard to kind of incorporate that in

947
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,120
Speaker 1: our language. But there are all these subtle emotions that

948
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: can come up with the smell that is really hard

949
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: to describe in in our linguistic monologue. But I think

950
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: it's still a very core part of the human experience.

951
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: I mean, that's kind of everything. The fact that we

952
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,480
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of words that can convey to

953
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 1: someone else a smell, or the fact that I can

954
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: close my eyes in picture what my first car looked like,

955
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: pretty almost exactly that nine blue Mustang. I cannot bring

956
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: to mind its smell. I cannot make myself smell what

957
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: it smelled like. I can't, you know, like if and

958
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,080
Speaker 1: if you try to tell me to imagine the smell

959
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: of cinnamon, I can't bring that scent into my nose.

960
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: But I can bring a picture of a cinnamon stick

961
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: into my mind and can close my eyes and I

962
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: can see it. I can generate a site, and I

963
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,920
Speaker 1: can hear a song if you ask me, you know,

964
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: uh so, if you ask me to imagine the song

965
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: Babies Got Back by Sir Mix a Lot, I can

966
00:58:28,160 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: hear the whole song in my head, word for word

967
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: right now, But I cannot remember the smell of that song. Um.

968
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: And so there's some there's something weird about how our

969
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,960
Speaker 1: cognition and our our mental thought processes is more disconnected

970
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: from our our sense of smell dan from almost anything else.

971
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 1: Because like visually, we can describe things we see. We

972
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: have a million different words for for color and contours

973
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: and shapes. You know, all of our poetry is based

974
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,240
Speaker 1: about seeing things and feeling things. But trying to write

975
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: a poem about how something smells, you're just like the smoke.

976
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: It smells smoky. It smells like smoke, like it's You

977
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 1: can throw words in there, like acrid or something, or

978
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: stings in your nose or whatever, But in terms of

979
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 1: trying to verbally recreate a smell for a person, the

980
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 1: best you can do is say, well, it smells like

981
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: frying onions. It's something you've smelled before. It smells like that.

982
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 1: But like, well, yeah, but what what does frying onions

983
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: smell like? It's like, well, it's kind of smoky. Yeah.

984
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: And so this, this is the reason I bring this

985
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,640
Speaker 1: up is because I think that's why so much of

986
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: if I'm looking at somebody and I'm judging them by

987
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: the shirt they're wearing, by their grooming, by their haircut,

988
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 1: all that stuff is visual. If they're saying a bunch

989
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 1: of annoying pickup lines at me, that's that's all audible.

990
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: I can you know, I can describe those words as

991
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 1: being stupid or corny or creepy. But the sense stuff,

992
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: because we don't connect it to our thoughts and our

993
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 1: language and our internal monologue, that stuff almost just always

994
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,920
Speaker 1: plays as instinct. I think, for example, you said, what,

995
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: why smell a glue stick that reminds me of kindergarten? Um.

996
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: I think for every one time you smell a glue

997
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 1: stick and you consciously think, oh, this reminds me of kindergarten,

998
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,600
Speaker 1: I think there are a hundred times when you have

999
01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: suddenly had your mood change because you smelled something that

1000
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 1: brought back a memory, but not consciously. It was just

1001
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 1: a smell that brought a sense of dread. And you

1002
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: don't remember necessarily that this is the same disinfectant they

1003
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:42,720
Speaker 1: used in the hospital when my dad was in the

1004
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: hospital or whatever. But it's it's a subconscious thing. I

1005
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: think there are all these associations where you find yourself

1006
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: your mood shifting, or you find a certain house that

1007
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: you just like being in. It's just and again you

1008
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: would say it's just a vibe, and you can talk

1009
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: about what is the function is that the arrangement of

1010
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: the fur nature is this or that It's like, no,

1011
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,680
Speaker 1: it's it's the smell. You just you're not conscious of

1012
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 1: it unless it's like an overwhelming like vanilla candle smell.

1013
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: But sometimes a house just smells welcoming, whereas no hospital

1014
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: smells that way. I think that's what they sometimes, like

1015
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,320
Speaker 1: realtors will like bake cookies in a house, um, but

1016
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: like a few days before, so it's not super obvious,

1017
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: but it's just kind of like they're hanging in the air.

1018
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: You know that. It's interesting because you mentioned that you

1019
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: can't imagine smells like you can't conjure that smell sort

1020
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: of like to your you know, in a similar way

1021
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 1: that you can visualize like a car. For me, that's

1022
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:43,720
Speaker 1: actually very different. I have an extremely sensitive sense of smell,

1023
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 1: which sounds cool, except like I can smell tuna from

1024
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,360
Speaker 1: like five rooms away and it makes me want to

1025
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:54,280
Speaker 1: like pass out, So I and I hate, Like, there

1026
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: are certain smells that I just like hate, Like I

1027
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:58,600
Speaker 1: hate the smell of a banana, and I can smell

1028
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: it if someone's eating it across the room, and I

1029
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 1: absolutely hate it. But I think like I can sometimes

1030
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: in dreams, I can like taste or smell things, and

1031
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 1: that can be either great or terrible, depending on the

1032
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: context of the dream. But I can also like imagine smells,

1033
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: which I think that's It's just interesting because I kind

1034
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:26,840
Speaker 1: of had assumed other people can also imagine taste or smells.

1035
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 1: Um am I the only one who can't. I don't know.

1036
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: I have to google it, I doubt well, let me, Yeah, like,

1037
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: who can people? Can you imagine smells? Like I've never

1038
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 1: had a taste or a smell in a dream in

1039
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: my life. I didn't. I didn't think that was possible. Yeah,

1040
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I've talked to other people who say they

1041
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: can't do that um as well as people who said

1042
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 1: they can. So I would assume it's something that is

1043
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: um that it is something that kind of just varies

1044
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 1: from her into person. Do you do you have like

1045
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:05,479
Speaker 1: a very sensitive sense of smell or not? Not at all? No,

1046
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 1: not at all. I mean maybe that's the that is

1047
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: like the difference. Well, it's just like there's a specific

1048
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 1: region of the brain, right, like that's it's it's more developed.

1049
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: It seems like it's as simple as that, Like it's

1050
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: it has the horsepower to process that memory more vividly

1051
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 1: than like I don't completely forget what pizza tastes like

1052
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 1: like I'm not. I know exactly why I see a pizza.

1053
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 1: I know exactly what to expect. But I can't bring

1054
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: the taste of pepperoni into my mouth the way I

1055
01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: can bring the song Babies Got back into my mind

1056
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 1: anytime I want. That's interesting because yeah, for me, it's

1057
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: like sometimes even not um intentional. I remember in high

1058
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: school we had to do dissections of like fetle pigs

1059
01:03:50,640 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 1: and frogs, and uh, the worst part for me was

1060
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: the smell of the formalde hyde, and I was imagining

1061
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 1: it was such a strong and unpleasant smell that for

1062
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 1: like a week after we had done it, I kept

1063
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 1: imagining that. It's like, my clothes smelled like it. Everything

1064
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: smelled like it. And you know, my poor mom like

1065
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 1: washed my clothes like twice and she's like, there's no

1066
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: smell of formalde hyde on these clothes. You're you're it's

1067
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: not there. But I could like still smell it, and

1068
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: it was psychological because it was such a strong smell.

1069
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 1: I think it just kind of like embedded itself in

1070
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: my old factory memory and I kept um sort of

1071
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 1: conjuring it up because it was probably like mildly traumatic

1072
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: to have to like smell such a strong, unpleasant thing

1073
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: while looking into the face of a dead baby pig. Yeah,

1074
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 1: I mean that that is I feel like we've just,

1075
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 1: like remember at the beginning, we were talking about some

1076
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: people don't think in an inner monologue and how shocking

1077
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: it is to like find out that other people think

1078
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 1: in a different way. I feel like we're experiencing that

1079
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 1: right now. But in terms of imagining smells or not

1080
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: imagining smells, and of course the mechanism what we know

1081
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,640
Speaker 1: is there because there's the thing that people are about

1082
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: to have a stroke. They will smell like a burning smell,

1083
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 1: like burnt toast or something, and they'll ask if something

1084
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: is burning. Then they'll have a stroke a moment later

1085
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: because of some misfire in the part of the in

1086
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: that part of the brain. So it's certainly something that

1087
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 1: can happen. And also, I think every single person listening

1088
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: this has had some the exact thing that you just described,

1089
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: where their wife or their roommate is swears like something

1090
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: stinks in here, like there's something rotten in the refrigerator,

1091
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: the amouse's diet. I can smell. I can't smell anything,

1092
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 1: And no matter what you do, you open the windows,

1093
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 1: you lie at a candle, it's like I can't smell,

1094
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: And the other person will just insist, and it's like, well,

1095
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: is it something inside your nose? Is it? And it? Maybe?

1096
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:46,680
Speaker 1: Are they just more sensitive? Are they picking up little

1097
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 1: scores of oils or whatever that's embedded in the fabric

1098
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 1: of the curtains that it's just too subtle for the

1099
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: other person. That's the weird thing about being a human

1100
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: being is you just don't know what it's like to

1101
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:02,360
Speaker 1: live inside someone else's audi and brighten and senses I

1102
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,360
Speaker 1: think it would be shocking to the point of if

1103
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: you could Freaky Friday somebody else and feel like impulses

1104
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: the way they feel them, and perceptions the way they

1105
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:16,200
Speaker 1: perceive them. I think it would you. You would faint

1106
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: from from the shock of it. I think how different

1107
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: other people, how much more tired some people are, how

1108
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 1: much more energy some people have. I'm always fantasizing about,

1109
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 1: like whether everyone else has more energy than I do,

1110
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 1: because I feel sleepy all the time. Um. But I

1111
01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 1: think we can sum up this episode by saying I

1112
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 1: smell good and you smell bad apparently so um. Before

1113
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: we go, I want to play a quick game called

1114
01:06:48,080 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 1: guests Who's Squawk and the Mystery Animal Sound Game. Every

1115
01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 1: week I play a mry animal sound and you the listener,

1116
01:06:55,280 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: and you the guests, try to guess who is making

1117
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: that sound. It can be any animal in the world.

1118
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: Last week's Mystery Animals sound hint was this. In the

1119
01:07:06,720 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: winter they wear white, in the summer they wear brown,

1120
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:26,479
Speaker 1: but all year round they sound like dinghis is oh?

1121
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:32,520
Speaker 1: I mean it clearly. I'm trying to think of the

1122
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: because it sounds to me like some sort of a

1123
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,919
Speaker 1: frog or something. But they the whole clue with them

1124
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,920
Speaker 1: wearing white in the winter and brown in the summer

1125
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:51,960
Speaker 1: um and I'm not sure. Gosh, dude, I can't. Yeah,

1126
01:07:51,960 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 1: I'm not picturing there's some sort of a bird or

1127
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: a gull or something. But no, I that that didn't

1128
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: sound like anything. I'm familiar it there or would want

1129
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,880
Speaker 1: to be familiar with. Well, you are correct that it

1130
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: is some kind of bird. It is a rock ptarmigan,

1131
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 1: and it is a ground dwelling bird found all over

1132
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 1: the world in arctic and subarctic regions. And even though

1133
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: it sounds like some kind of like weird alien that

1134
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 1: has a tentacle that like goes up your eye and

1135
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: reads your brain, it's actually just a little fluffy bird.

1136
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:30,759
Speaker 1: They go from brown to white from summer to winter,

1137
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 1: so they they molt and their brown feathers are replaced

1138
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:39,519
Speaker 1: by white feathers for the purpose of camouflage. They're actually

1139
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,879
Speaker 1: pretty cute. Their feet are fluffy and covered in feathers

1140
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,720
Speaker 1: then look like little bunny paws, and that works as

1141
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 1: snowshoes in the winter, and they like to live inside

1142
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:54,479
Speaker 1: snow caves that form around trees and rocks. And what

1143
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 1: you heard is their mating call. And remember that birds

1144
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:02,560
Speaker 1: are just modern day dinosaurs, So I love to imagine

1145
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: that back in dinosaur times there are a bunch of

1146
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:10,440
Speaker 1: you know, big scary looking dinosaurs making just a weird

1147
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: giggling sounds like this bird. Congratulations to Joey Pete, Bob,

1148
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,719
Speaker 1: whichever bob that was. I mean, if you're that bob,

1149
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 1: you probably know which bob you are. And Emily am Yeah.

1150
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 1: And again, anybody who successfully guesses these you win a

1151
01:09:29,400 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: gift card to Hooters for ten thousand dollars. And you

1152
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 1: might think that it is to the restaurant with problematic themes,

1153
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:46,840
Speaker 1: but no, it is actually an owl um sanctuary that

1154
01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:50,120
Speaker 1: he is talking about. This Hooters, the restaurant still exists.

1155
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 1: Is that still a thing? Oh? I think it does. Yeah, yeah,

1156
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: that's inspirational. They're still hanging in there. I yeah. I

1157
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:01,760
Speaker 1: feel like they could definitely rebrand though, and make it

1158
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: completely owl themed. Oh so um, are you ready for

1159
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:14,960
Speaker 1: this week's mystery animalsound? Yeah? And again if I if

1160
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 1: I do successfully guess that, you just bleep it so

1161
01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: it doesn't ruin the whole thing. That's exactly right. All right,

1162
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,320
Speaker 1: here we go. So here is the hint, you've been

1163
01:10:22,520 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 1: lied to. These guys don't have wings al right, so

1164
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:48,320
Speaker 1: can you guess who is squawking? Like? You are absolutely

1165
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:53,679
Speaker 1: correct and therefore you you you will be bleeped out, um,

1166
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: although the listener will know that you're victorious, so you know,

1167
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: oh yes, uh. And if you think you know who

1168
01:11:02,479 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 1: is squalking right to me a creature feature pod at

1169
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,679
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Also, hey, you know what right to me?

1170
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,559
Speaker 1: About whether you can imagine smells and taste or if

1171
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: you don't imagine smells or taste, or if you have

1172
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:20,560
Speaker 1: a fantasia or if you don't think in a monologue.

1173
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: I am curious to know. Um. And hey, Jason, thank

1174
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:27,840
Speaker 1: you so much for coming on. Where can people find you?

1175
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:30,679
Speaker 1: And when? When? And where can people get your book?

1176
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: The book For those of you who know me from

1177
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:38,519
Speaker 1: before this show, it's UM in the John Dies at

1178
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:44,599
Speaker 1: the End series of adult horror sci fi novels. The

1179
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: title of this one is if this book exists, you're

1180
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:50,240
Speaker 1: in the wrong universe. You can get it anywhere. It's

1181
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: got a big, lime green cover. It's available on audiobook

1182
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:57,439
Speaker 1: anything like that. UM in any format out October eighteenth.

1183
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:00,840
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly when this episode airs. But either

1184
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 1: way it's close enough that it's either out or it

1185
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 1: will be within days. Otherwise, I'm on all of the

1186
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 1: social media's that just that name, Jason Pargeon p A

1187
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:15,919
Speaker 1: r G. I n searched that name on Twitter or TikTok,

1188
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 1: sadly or Instagram, any of them. I'm on their Facebook.

1189
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: I'm on all of them. I'm not on Snapchat. That's

1190
01:12:23,040 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 1: one that I'm not on. You on TikTok, That's well,

1191
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 1: that's not something we like to adi. That's not something

1192
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 1: we like to admit in public. But yes, we have

1193
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: become I have gone viral on on TikTok. I have

1194
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: a lot of I've now more followers there than I

1195
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:42,240
Speaker 1: have on Facebook, even though I've had that Facebook account

1196
01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 1: for like twenty years. TikTok, I've been on there for

1197
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:47,439
Speaker 1: two months. I've got like twenty thou followers and like

1198
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 1: one of their own. Yeah, um and anybody have there.

1199
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: Was worried about because a lot of people in my age,

1200
01:12:56,360 --> 01:13:00,400
Speaker 1: you know, because I'm seven, ask how do you get

1201
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:02,400
Speaker 1: into TikTok. Because the thing is if you go to

1202
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: best Buy and you get like they have like the

1203
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 1: TikTok vlogger kits. Now for the kids. It's like in

1204
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:10,040
Speaker 1: a little pink box but like a little ring light

1205
01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: in a little camera and stuff. It's like to get

1206
01:13:12,320 --> 01:13:14,880
Speaker 1: you set up on TikTok And it's like, well, how

1207
01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 1: can I purchase that with? Like won't they call the

1208
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:21,080
Speaker 1: cops or something if I try to buy something like that?

1209
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:23,200
Speaker 1: But again, you can tell them it's for somebody else.

1210
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 1: I can say it's my niece's birthday. You know, I'm

1211
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:28,360
Speaker 1: getting it. She's twelve and you know she wants to

1212
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: be an influencer. I'm getting it for her. You don't

1213
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: have to admit that you're using this equipment for yourself. Yeah.

1214
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:36,639
Speaker 1: I mean it's like Lego Land and Chuck E Cheese

1215
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:41,160
Speaker 1: rules like you cannot purchase a TikTok kit as an adult,

1216
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 1: but if you have a child with you, then you

1217
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 1: can buy it. And you just have to say it

1218
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 1: is for that child, yeah. Or like the guy who

1219
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: goes to the dog park but without her dog. Yeah,

1220
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 1: you know, I just like to sit here in commune

1221
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,800
Speaker 1: with the dogs. That happened to me once and it

1222
01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:00,800
Speaker 1: was a magician also, and that was interested, to say

1223
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 1: the least. Did you say he was a magician? Yeah?

1224
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 1: He literally, this is not a joke. He had cards

1225
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 1: in his pocket and like a little piece of string

1226
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 1: for his tricks, and it it was scary. Did I

1227
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:19,800
Speaker 1: wish the whole episode had been about this? Did this

1228
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:23,639
Speaker 1: happen in America? Or did this happen where happen in America?

1229
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: Good old American magician? All right, yeah, no dog either.

1230
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 1: I guess he made the dog disappear and probably me

1231
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:41,720
Speaker 1: too if I hadn't gotten away from that park. If

1232
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: any of you out there are amateur magicians, we are

1233
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,880
Speaker 1: not trying to cast us persions on the type of

1234
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:51,559
Speaker 1: there's just certain there's certain pastimes, like the like minds,

1235
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,800
Speaker 1: like they've gotten a certain reputation. Yeah no, I I um,

1236
01:14:55,880 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 1: you know fully support the magician profession, just not at

1237
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 1: dog parks when you don't have a dog. That's when,

1238
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 1: uh it drives terror into my heart. Well, thank you

1239
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,679
Speaker 1: so much for joining me, and thanks to you the listener. Uh,

1240
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 1: if you're enjoying the show, and you know you do

1241
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:20,760
Speaker 1: those things that people are always demanding you do, like

1242
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: leave reviews, and you're probably sick of it, like stop

1243
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: at asking me for my opinion. Well, I'm going to

1244
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 1: do it one more time. If you have an opinion

1245
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,599
Speaker 1: on the podcast and you want to say it, especially

1246
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: if it's a nice one, I'm not gonna lie. Like

1247
01:15:34,880 --> 01:15:38,519
Speaker 1: those the best. I appreciate them and I read all

1248
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 1: of them. And hey, thank you to the Space Classics

1249
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 1: for their super awesome song. Ex Alumina Creature Feature is

1250
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:49,519
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like

1251
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,200
Speaker 1: the one you just heard, visit the I heart Radio

1252
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:55,519
Speaker 1: app Apple Podcasts, or Hey, guess what where avery he

1253
01:15:55,680 --> 01:16:00,600
Speaker 1: listen your favorite shows? I genuinely don't care. See you

1254
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 1: next Wednesday.