1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Kuric, and this is next question. 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: In a new movie, a woman finds herself in desperate 3 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 1: need of an abortion. The problem is she can't get one. 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: Her doctor isn't allowed to perform the procedure, the hospital 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: won't even grant her a medical exemption, and if she 6 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:24,799 Speaker 1: can't find an alternative, she may very well die. You'd 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: be forgiven for assuming this is a contemporary movie, ripped 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: from our two headlines about the very real consequences of 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: the tidal wave of abortion bands that went into effect 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: after the Supreme Court reverse the Roe v. Wade decision 11 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: back in June. This new movie is called called Jane, 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: and it takes place in ninety five years before Rowe 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: was enacted. The woman is Joy, played by Elizabeth Banks, 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: a well to do suburban housewife who, in a moment 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: of hopelessness, comes across the flyer that says pregnant anxious, 16 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 1: called Jane, and that phone call propels the rest of 17 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: the movie. So, um, which one of you is Jane? 18 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: Nobody's Jane. We're all Jane. Virginia started it. Help yourself. 19 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to. A friend called I found her 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: a safe doctor and then her friend called, and then 21 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 1: her friend's friend, and here we are. The Jans were 22 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: a real life group that emerged in the nineteen sixties 23 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: to secretly help women around Chicago get safe abortions. Their 24 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 1: clandestine work was the focus of a recent documentary called 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: The Jains. You can and should stream it now on HBO. 26 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,919 Speaker 1: Max I interviewed the filmmakers and some of the Janes 27 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: for my abortion podcast series, which you should also check out. 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: Call Jane is a fictionalized telling of their story. It's 29 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: funnier than you expect, but also incredibly thoughtful and intimate, 30 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: and I got the chance to talk about all of 31 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: it with the movies director Phillis naj and its star 32 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Banks. Here's our conversation. This film was so fun 33 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: for me because well, fun is probably not the right word, 34 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: but interesting because in nineteen sixty eight, I was eleven 35 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: years old, and I remember I was old enough to 36 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: remember a lot from that period of time. But it's 37 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: still infuriated me film, or the time period of being 38 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: or being eleven, the time period nineteen just I mean, 39 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:53,799 Speaker 1: just how limited the opportunities were for women and how backwards, 40 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: uh the culture was. And I think This is going 41 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: to be a good reminder for a lot of people 42 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: who don't appreciate not that long ago that women were 43 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: so so limited in terms of their opportunities. Was that 44 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: shocking to you at all, Elizabeth, as probably the youngest 45 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: person on this zoom, Um, it was not shocking to me. 46 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: You know. I'm I'm I'm activists in this space. I 47 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: work with the Center for Reproductive Rights, I have for 48 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: quite some time, and um, I think I've been aware 49 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: of the pre row situation. I also have a I 50 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 1: have a mom who is very both my parents very 51 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,839 Speaker 1: politically active, so I grew up in a politically active home, 52 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: and you know, women's rights have been something that for 53 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: me as a sort of ambitious young woman, you know, 54 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: you can't not think about those things. I mean, women couldn't. 55 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: I don't think you could get divorced without cause, even 56 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: if your husband beat you. You couldn't get a mortgage 57 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: without somebody's signature. You know. There was the the idea 58 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: that we're going backwards right now is very scary to me, 59 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: for sure for my own kids, because now I'm now 60 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: I now have kids. Yeah, you know, intellectually, of course, 61 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: I realized what was happening then, but for some reason, 62 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: to see it played out in a movie and to 63 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: see all the nuanced and less than nuanced sexism that 64 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: existed was still somewhat jolting to me. The film is 65 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: so great. First of all, Phillis and Elizabeth, congratulations And 66 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: and Elizabeth, I know that you were attached to the 67 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: movie before Phillis got involved. Tell me why you were 68 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: attracted to this movie in the first place, and to 69 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: the role of Joy. Yeah, it was a great script 70 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: from the from jump. You know, the the Jane Collective, 71 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: which is a real group of women in Chicago in 72 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: the late sixties, is the jumping off point, the inspiration 73 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: for cal Jane. And I didn't know anything about them 74 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: before I read the script. And I'm constantly fascinated by 75 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: what I do learn from reading Hollywood scripts, and this 76 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: is one of those eye opening experiences where I really thought, Uh, 77 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: it just captured for me a character who was coming 78 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,919 Speaker 1: of age at forty years old, and I thought I 79 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 1: had not read that in a really long time. Something 80 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: like that. You know, that to me felt like the 81 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 1: ark or the opportunity with this character, because the decision 82 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: to have the abortion is very life affirming for her 83 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: in many ways and positive in all ways for her. 84 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: Right there, there's no doubt in her mind that she 85 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: wants to live to parents the daughter she already has, 86 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: and because she's still got a lot to do with 87 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: her time, you know, it really wakes her up. We 88 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 1: should just mention that she had a heart condition that 89 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: was brought on by the pregnancy when there was a 90 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: chance she might die if she carried the baby to term. Yeah, 91 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: it's a good reminder that pregnan and see is fairly 92 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: dangerous for a lot of women. Actually, of immortality rate 93 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: in our country is not awesome. So um, just a 94 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: good reminder there. But I just felt like it was 95 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: a way to invite a lot of women into Joy's 96 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,679 Speaker 1: story and into the story of the Jains through this character, 97 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: who I think um is very relatable to a lot 98 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 1: of people. You know, I interviewed the women behind the 99 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: documentary The Jains, so I feel like I had a 100 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 1: good foundation to watch this film and Phillis, tell me 101 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: how you were able to shape it, because I know 102 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: my understanding is Joy is a compilation of characters sort 103 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: of from that era, from sort of the world of 104 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: the Jains. Why did you feel like Joy should be 105 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: the conduit from which the story was told. I think 106 00:06:54,720 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: Joy was always the central character of the narrative him, 107 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: but it was I think it's fair to say, if 108 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm remembering this correctly, Elizabeth, it was more of a 109 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: mosaic of character, organization, etcetera. And what I realized is 110 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 1: that Joy Griffin is a very useful stand in for us. 111 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: She's a very useful guide through this in a particular way. 112 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: So when I was thinking about, well, what makes this 113 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: so special and how is Joy's story so special? She 114 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: discovers the power of collectivism. It's not that she was, 115 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, just sitting at home thinking about nothing. She 116 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: helps her husband. Um, she's best editor. She's a smart woman. 117 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: But I think she made a choice. Film is all 118 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: about choice. She made a choice to devote herself to 119 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: her family, which is a good choice. But now she 120 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: has to make a different choice because her life due 121 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: to the cardiomyopathy, which by the way, wasn't uncommon. It 122 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: was uncommon in the first trimester maybe, which is when 123 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: Joy has it. But it's something that friends of mine 124 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: have today when they get pregnant. Some of them, we 125 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: just can deal with it. Better than saying to a woman, hey, 126 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: you've got a fifty chance of survival, and that's good enough, 127 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: you know. Um. But Joy finds her rediscovers I'm going 128 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 1: to say, her purpose through a collective. And isn't it 129 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: great that this collective is a group of women who 130 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: figure out how to solve a problem without fuss with 131 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: some fraud tense moments. Because you put any group of 132 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: women together and they're gonna they're gonna all have a say, right, 133 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we wanted to show. And I think, 134 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, we pretty much we're able to do that. 135 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: The power of being together rather than being alone is 136 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: what sets Joy on her way and allows us to 137 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: be her. I think too. This was your feature link 138 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,559 Speaker 1: directorial debut, Phyllis. And of course you wrote the critically 139 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: acclaimed movie Carol that came out in another period drama. 140 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 1: Why was called Jane a good fit for you? Why 141 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: was this something you wanted to devote your time too? Well? 142 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:37,439 Speaker 1: I've always, i've always um been interested in addressing problems 143 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 1: through period because I think we can talk about things 144 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: that are important to us today in a way that's 145 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: not encumbered by all the stuff and all the nonsense 146 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: that we have to filter it through today. So Carol 147 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: certainly was like that. It was addressing an issue through 148 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: a period called Jane was like, uh, and really I 149 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: saw the chance to make something entertaining with Paul Jane, 150 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: which it is, I think, or at least we wanted 151 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: to be entertained. I thought it was, yeah, great, we're glad, 152 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: and um it's it's addressing it in a way that 153 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: I don't think the issues have been addressed before on film. 154 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: We have a huge number of very good films about abortion, 155 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: about women's rights, combining the two. But my interest in 156 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: a lightness of touch in comedy, in having actors who 157 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: are able to walk that line as beautifully as they do. 158 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about you now, Elizabeth. Elizabeth and 159 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: Sigourney and Womy and everyone else who is in it. 160 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: It gave us a chance to speak to people beyond 161 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: the people we already knew agreed with us. And for me, 162 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: that's what film and all art is about, reaching out 163 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: two people other than your own. I wondered about that 164 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: honestly when I watched it. Of course I loved it. 165 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: I feel very strongly about reproductive rights. My mom volunteered 166 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:17,440 Speaker 1: at Planned Parenthood when I was a younger, and um, 167 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: it's just certainly something that I have always cared deeply about. 168 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 1: But I wondered if people who didn't agree, who don't 169 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 1: feel strongly, who don't realize just what's at stake in 170 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: our country, as Elizabeth you suggested we were going backwards, 171 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: I wondered if they would watch this film. And I'm curious, Elizabeth, 172 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: what you think, because I know you all try not 173 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: to make it preachy, make it entertaining, have really strong characters. 174 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's quite graphic and at times, and we'll 175 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: talk about that in a moment, but do you think 176 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: that it will appeal widely two people who don't feel 177 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: passionately about this issue. My hope is that that the 178 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: movie inspires lots of people, you know, lots of different 179 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: types of audience members. I find, you know, when I 180 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: don't want to just watch things that align with my 181 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: value systems. You know, I don't even know what that means. 182 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: I'm looking to be entertained and to relate to a story. 183 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: And it's really why I felt like this for me, 184 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: especially making it personal about Joy, her character, her journey. 185 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: You know that that it felt um relatable to really anybody, 186 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: and I think the circumstances that she finds herself in 187 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: our first of all, very normal. They're not uncommon. And 188 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: I also want to remind you and remind anybody who's listening, 189 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: that you know, abortion in America is not particularly controversial. Um. 190 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: I always feel like we feel like we have to 191 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: defend our side, as if we're like on the back foot, 192 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: when in fact, the majority of Americans think that abortion 193 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: should be safe and legal, and so this film is 194 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: not particularly um, you know, combative or uh controversial in 195 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: any way, and that we are presenting a reality for 196 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: women in nine Chicago, nine Chicago, um, before row happened, 197 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: and I think presenting an actual picture of a way 198 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: of life that many activists women right now in states 199 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: around the country that don't have abortion access have been 200 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: living for months and years. Now. You know, there are 201 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: women helping other women in collectives in activist ways all 202 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: over the country right now. Phyllis, how did you approach 203 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: it in a way that it didn't seem to preachy, 204 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:06,359 Speaker 1: or that it was compelling and thought provoking and provocative, 205 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: but in the best possible way. Well, I like to 206 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: think that I understand the other side of the argument, 207 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: which was always important to us. I don't come from 208 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: a family of activists or people who particularly agree with 209 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: the point of view that I think is strong in 210 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: the film, but not Uh, it doesn't ask you to 211 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: agree with it. So I understand. I think what the 212 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: fears of people are, what they think about, what the 213 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: misconceptions are. And I also know that humor is the thing. 214 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: Humor and truth are an honesty and a simple approach 215 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: to saying, Okay, let us show an entire abortion procedure. 216 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: Before I started, I knew this was necessary, but I 217 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: didn't know that. I've never seen a film in which 218 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: the entire procedure was just laid out right there. And 219 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: it's not as if we are, um, using a camera 220 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: inside the woman or you know, seeing blood. We don't 221 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: see any of that. And yet it is when I 222 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: watch it with people still, the part where they will 223 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 1: put their hand over their eyes. I did. I did 224 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: because it's that intimate. It's intimate, and it's and it's 225 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: honest in its portrayal. It's just this is the facts. 226 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: This is not glossed, and yet it's not also, um, 227 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: you know, a horror movie it's not it's not um 228 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: focusing on the misery of the procedure, just the normal. 229 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: It's a normal medical procedure. And so this is how 230 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: I think it can relate to people on various sides, 231 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: because I think it's more than just a black and 232 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: white issue. I think there are people in the middle who, 233 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: on one day I think it's fine, on the next 234 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: day don't. And I hope this film speaks to that 235 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: person most of all, because I think if you're going 236 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: to not change hearts and minds, but affect a heart 237 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: or mind, it's in that area that it will happen. Um, 238 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: if we can get one person to say, you know, 239 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: I never thought about it in that way, that's great. 240 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: That's a victory. You mentioned humor, and Sigourney Weaver is 241 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: really a character and a character in the film. And Elizabeth, 242 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: I'm curious what it was like if you had worked 243 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: with Sigourney before, if you knew her, and what you 244 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: think she added to the film. I have never met 245 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: Sigourney before before she showed up on set. Um. We 246 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: we had a dinner at the first night together and 247 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: just got on like a house on fire. And you know, 248 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: she is first of all one of my idols. Um, 249 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: not just as an actor, but as a as a woman, 250 00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 1: as a survivor in Hollywood. Um, I think you know, 251 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: she's made some of my favorite movies. Working Girl top 252 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: of the list probably, and then Ripley. Of course, she 253 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: changed the face of action heroes. Um. I think that 254 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: she she's a uh this is something I hope to 255 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: be someday. And so take this with a compliment, sig 256 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: if you hear this. But she's just abroad. She is 257 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: a just down home broad who likes you know, gets 258 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: to work, knows to the grindstone, goes about her daily 259 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: business and just you know, is like full of just 260 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: a sense of confidence. And I think that's what the 261 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: character needed. I don't agree with what your day that girl? 262 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: What about her? She's having sex without protection, She's sleeping 263 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: with a married man paid for the procedure. She's so unconcerned. 264 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: We help women, we don't ask questions. And if we 265 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: judged everyone by how they present themselves, I might write 266 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: you off as a lightweight housewife who bakes mediocre snickerdoodles 267 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:34,280 Speaker 1: and gets plastered on four o'clock martinis. Sigourney is Is 268 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: plays Virginia who's really kind of the heart and soul, 269 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: and I guess the organizer of the Jains who starts 270 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: everything going and well. In the film, she's kind of abroad. 271 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 1: She's tough, she's funny, but she's also tender, by the way, 272 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: and there's a particular funny scene where she's asked you 273 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: to explain basically the birds and the bees or sex 274 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: to this young teenage girl who who needs an abortion, 275 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: and you can't do it because you're repressed, like a 276 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: lot of women from your from Joyce generation and Virginia 277 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: and Virginia ak Scourny just grabs the pad and starts 278 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: drawing the the labia and the uterus. Yeah that's right. 279 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: Name is all nine yards. Yeah, that's right. You should 280 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: see those drawings, by the way, they were hilarious. I 281 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: hope you saved them. There's somewhere, Folsts, did you save 282 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: those draws? I think I have a couple of them, 283 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: and they actually did look like rabbits, some of them. Um. 284 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: But but she she added a lot and as you said, 285 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: she was a great foil for joy She really she's 286 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: like myself. In the movie, she's a compilation of a 287 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 1: bunch of characters. You know that Jane's had sort of 288 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: many leaders. It really was a collective um. But you know, 289 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: I think for the purposes of telling a story like this, 290 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: you do want to just sort of, you know, make 291 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: put all of that into a character like um, like Virginia. 292 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: But she really represented activism generally at that time period 293 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: to I, you know, Um Phillis. Phillis was alive then 294 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: too and remembers those things and I and brought so 295 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: much UM. I think Phillis, you can speak to this 296 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: your own experiences like a young person in in that 297 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: time period in America, which was civil rights and women's 298 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: rights and it's you know, and and Vietnam. It was 299 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: just roiling back then. Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean I 300 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: was a young child, but I grew up in St. 301 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: Mark's Place in the East Village, where my parents were 302 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: the superintendence of an apartment building. And I remember, and 303 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: this is where some things filter their way in through 304 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,400 Speaker 1: the film. I went to a Catholic school and we 305 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: were uh at lesson Is the day after Nixon won 306 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: the six d and election, and then None ran into 307 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: the classroom and said Nixon one and all of us 308 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: little kids we just started applauding because our parents have 309 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: voted for him. And I'll never forget the lay teacher 310 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: there looked at us and we were like, you know, 311 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: seven eight years old. She said, you're all going to hell, 312 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: and your parents too, and I guess she was right, 313 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But but it's funny the 314 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: experiences of seeing um, the yippies, I guess they were hippies, 315 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: and yippies running barefoot through the streets. They have filtered 316 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: somehow into call Jane in my tiny consciousness at the time. 317 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: You know, the film is full of images that I 318 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: remember from that period. When we come back, we'll die 319 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 1: even to one scene that will get your blood boiling, 320 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: which is exactly the point. There was one scene in 321 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: particular that really made me mad, and that of course, 322 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: was the hospital board meeting Joy and her husband to 323 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: get permission for a medically necessary abortion. Dr Farh, Hi, 324 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: are you good? I've baked cookies? Uh, gentlemen, you're all 325 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: familiar with the details of this case. Mrs Griffin has 326 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: petitioned the board to make an exception to hospital policy 327 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: so that she might proceed to an emergency termination of 328 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: her pregnancy. This was not an unusual occurrence. What was 329 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: unusual isn't Probably Joy wouldn't have been there. This is 330 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: a bit of dramatic license, but I knew how important 331 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: that was and how important casting the two men who 332 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: have actual lines were. I mean, we got real actors, 333 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: great actors for that understands that this request is extraordinary. 334 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: She does, yes, Is there a chance that she can 335 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 1: survive the pregnancy? The chance, of course, percentage of patients 336 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: who survived a pregnancy with this condition, that's difficult to say. 337 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: Maybe is there a percentage that would say you this 338 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,439 Speaker 1: hospital has approved termination of pregnancy once in the past 339 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: ten years. Was Mrs Griffin aware of that? No, she 340 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: was not. I'm I'm here, I'm I'm right here, and 341 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: and that I think I could see Elizabeth as we 342 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 1: did take after take getting Madder and Madder, which was fantastic, 343 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: and Christmasina, who plays Joy's husband, Um, being more and 344 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: more bewildered by, you know, being torn, as I think 345 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: men were at the time. I am comfortable with the 346 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: data compiled in such cases, full term pregnancy resulting in 347 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: the birth of a healthy child, well within reason for 348 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: such a patience. Therefore, I vote no. The determination gentlemen. 349 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: A healthy baby. That's it. No regard for her mother, no, no, no, 350 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 1: no no. But it was necessary to have that scene 351 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: play out with as little melodrama as possible so that 352 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 1: people could get angry. You know, you can't have a 353 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 1: bunch of people in the room getting heated and then 354 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: you as an audience receiving it. You need to feel 355 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: those emotions yourself. I think the scene on the page 356 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: ins with them walking out, and I do like that 357 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: she takes her cookies. That is that is the cookies 358 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 1: for me really were about Joy's naivete in the moment. 359 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: You know that she just thought, well, obviously, I mean, 360 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: I want to live. My husband wants me to live. 361 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: We we together as a family, have made a decision 362 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: and we want this. And and by the way, we're 363 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: kind of a privileged couple who's you know, my husband's 364 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: a fancy lawyer. We're used to getting our way. And 365 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: I just love that this was a woman who kind 366 00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: of was put in her place in a way, and 367 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: that you know, if if this woman couldn't access this, well, 368 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: nobody has hope, you know what I mean, Like this 369 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: very privileged, white, rich lady can't get this and you know, 370 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: we have to figure this out, and I like that. 371 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: So the cookies for me were just her innocence just gone. 372 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: You mentioned sort of privileged white couple, and I want 373 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: to ask you a little bit about the role of 374 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: race in this film because Gwen, who is played by 375 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 1: Woomy Masaku, is the only black woman who's a member 376 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: of the Jains, and I thought it was interesting for 377 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: her to bring up the fact that when economics, economics 378 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: always affect black women. I'm paraphrasing here. Talk about your 379 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: decision to kind of bring that into the conversation and 380 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 1: why it was so important to you. Phillis Well, I 381 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: when in mind reading about the Jains, there's there were 382 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: a couple of books and some newspaper articles about it. 383 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 1: But even in the in those books, it was clear that, 384 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, the Jains were are largely a young group 385 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: of college students and some slightly older um women with 386 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: movement husbands, which was interested. I didn't use them in this, 387 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: but you know, there were a couple lawyers who were 388 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: helping out. And by the way, I just want to 389 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: just interject one quick thing. Members of the Catholic Church, 390 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: and I so appreciated you featuring a nun because I 391 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 1: think there are many people who don't realize how instrumental 392 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: members of the Catholic Church were in the effort to 393 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,639 Speaker 1: provide safe, somewhat safe abortions to women who were in 394 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: this situation. So thank you for providing that context for people, 395 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 1: because it's something I didn't know about until I saw 396 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: the documentary. Yeah, they were there, and as I was 397 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,360 Speaker 1: reading about it, I knew that we needed to be 398 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: UM scrupulously correct about certain things, and one of them 399 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: was how the makeup of the group changed, how it evolved. 400 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 1: So there was a core black member of the James 401 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: And I think you know, if you've seen the documentary, 402 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: you know how UM. You know the kinds of issues 403 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: that she had to deal with just being someone who 404 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: is advocating for free or lower cost abortions, who could 405 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: afford that, certainly not poor black and brown women. So 406 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: Gwen in our movie UM, while I think that she 407 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: is absolutely a flesh and blood character, UM, also UM 408 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: is representative of the kinds of problems that were inherent 409 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: in groups like this and how to address those with 410 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: Then the context of a narrative fiction feature film entertainment 411 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: took a long time to sort out. It's interesting how 412 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: economics always seems to mean that black women get screwed. 413 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: We're screwing plenty of white women. If that makes you 414 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: feel any better, please can we not make this about race? 415 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: Look around the room, Virginia, we are a bunch of 416 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: white ladies. Yes, you know, that's not the intent. I 417 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: don't care about intent. I care about results. You did 418 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: not try hard enough with the Panther Sisters, and then 419 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: you insulted the Black Feminist Alliance. They were bat shit 420 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: screaming at me about abortion and black They are not batshit. God, 421 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: I knew you would do this. I just how can 422 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: you still be so oblivious? As the Jains went on, 423 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: so we covered the period of pretty much once they 424 00:29:55,920 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: learned to do their own procedures, the group been up 425 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: because of course they could afford to. We were giving 426 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: abortions for free or for what you can pay. And 427 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: that's when the complexion of the group literally changed some 428 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: quite a lot. And we we only have a very 429 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: brief moment of time with the changed complexion, but we 430 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: do try to reflect that in the last scenes. Um 431 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: like maybe one day will make a fifteen hour a change. 432 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: T um but I think, um, given the period, given 433 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: what we were trying to get, right, I I hope 434 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: it addresses those things efficiently in the way that features 435 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: can address them. And you know, to this day, these 436 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: kinds of health disparities exist, Elizabeth, as you well know, 437 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: in terms of women of color and having access to abortion. Uh, 438 00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: in terms of maternal mortality, black women or three to 439 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: four times more likely to die as results of childbirth 440 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: than than white women. So they still exist to this day. 441 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: And I imagine that was an important aspect of this 442 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: conversation for you too. Make sure was a part of 443 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: this film for sure. I think the intersectionality of all 444 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: of this is always important to to acknowledge. You know. 445 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: I also think we can always do better at this 446 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: moment in this film and this story is you know, 447 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: the best we could do with this moment um. There's 448 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: always more to be done, and I think that's true 449 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: of you know, most of these issues. Um, but yes, 450 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: it is very clear that whenever women are oppressed, black 451 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: and brown women they take the brunt of it much worse. 452 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 1: After the break, abortion and the mid terms can call 453 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: Jane make an impact undecided voters, that's right after this 454 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you all sort of as we 455 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: begin to wrap up, about the impact of this film 456 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: or just your thoughts on the upcoming midterm elections. I've 457 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: been obsessively checking polls and looking at at sort of 458 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: what is likely to happen, and who knows how accurate 459 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: polls are. That's whole a whole other podcast. But it 460 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: seems like abortion has already receded slightly in the public 461 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: consciousness and has been overtaken by pocketbook issues like gas 462 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: prices and inflation. And I hope people understand sort of 463 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: what's at stake, but it's I'm worried they don't. I'm 464 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: worried they don't. So I can't imagine a bigger pocketbook 465 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: issue for people than raising kids. I mean, at least 466 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: in my house, that's what we talk about. Um, you know, 467 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: I abortion as an economic issue is not brought up 468 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: very often enough for my taste, you know, to me, 469 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: it's all economics. As a young person investing in myself 470 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: in college and grad school and my early life. It's like, 471 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, unwanted pregnancy would have derailed all of that 472 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: and made that investment insane and then puts a whole 473 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: other economic burden on me. So I think talking about 474 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: how the how also the abortion bands in these states 475 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: are requiring travel and time off of work, and you know, 476 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: all these economic burdens on on women. That's a very 477 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: good point. Honestly, I don't think that's raised enough. I can't. 478 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,320 Speaker 1: I don't understand why we don't um conflate these two 479 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: things that are inextricably linked, uh, you know, abortion and 480 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: an economics so especially Yeah, so I I find a 481 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: passating that somehow people are even able to um separate 482 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: these two things. But we do, and I think it's 483 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: a mistake. I also think, you know, to put much 484 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: stock in polls after what happened in you know, I don't. 485 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:28,479 Speaker 1: I also don't think the polsters sometimes are going deep 486 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: enough into the electorate, and perhaps so there's a big 487 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,279 Speaker 1: question about how forthcoming certain members of the electorate are 488 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: in terms of trusting polsters. And also quite frankly, it's 489 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: much more complicated to reach people when you know, the 490 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 1: era of landlines um is pretty much gone. That's right. 491 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: So perhaps it's naive, but I'm willing to place a 492 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: small bit on on this issue. Being a very powerful 493 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: driver of a certain population that is traditionally discounted by pollsters. 494 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 1: That would be my hope too. I'm also very hopeful 495 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 1: that young women, especially um, you know, really are taking 496 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: to heart the just the notion that they have fewer rights, 497 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: That my own kids have fewer rights to control their 498 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 1: destinies in their lives, um than six months ago. Is 499 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: just that it's so Unamerican to me, you know. My 500 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: the panel I interviewed said the most vocal group. I 501 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: was surprised at this, and I haven't been able to 502 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: check the veracity of this claim, but that young men 503 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:46,520 Speaker 1: are the most adamant about reproductive rights. And I think 504 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: the big question is will they turn out? Will they 505 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 1: be motivated? I think it's a great point. I have 506 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: two sons. People ask me, oh, blah blah blah, it's 507 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: the women's issue, and I say, this is about my 508 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: two sons. I don't want my boys to become parents 509 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: before they're ready. Um And and you know, I I 510 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: there there's a rise in vasectomys across America. I know, 511 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: and for good reason. You know, who wants to put 512 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: a woman in jail for having a great time? You know? 513 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: I am. I'm pleased to hear um that trend for 514 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: young men. I think it's right they don't want to 515 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: be dad's before they're before they're ready. There's so many 516 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: dramatic moments in this film, and sort of as we 517 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: say goodbye to both of you, are there any favorite 518 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: moments for each of you that you feel really encapsulate 519 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: what you were trying to convey in this movie? Fill us, 520 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: I'll start with you. Wow, Um, I think of um. 521 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: The one scene that that I keep going back to 522 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: is a scene towards the end of the movie with 523 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Joy, her husband, and the detective who come in 524 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,719 Speaker 1: and within the space of ten minutes, without giving too 525 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:18,560 Speaker 1: much away, entire world's unravel and rubs are pulled out 526 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 1: from under the furniture and it just represents the complexity 527 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: of what we've been dealing with for the previous hour 528 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: and a bit. I think, pretty much as well as 529 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,959 Speaker 1: any any moments in the film for me, I would say, 530 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 1: for me, I think the mythology around abortion is something 531 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,839 Speaker 1: super scary that women should be afraid of. UM. Dispelling 532 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 1: that myths in the film really mattered to me, you know, 533 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: making it something that is normal, easy, every day, not 534 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: too stressful, that women right now more than half of 535 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: all abortions are self managed at home with two pills. 536 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, that's the progress that 537 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: we've made, we've put we've literally it's not surprising to 538 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,160 Speaker 1: me that there is this backlash when we've given the 539 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: power and control over abortion right into a woman's house, 540 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: right when before it was like, well, you had to 541 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: have a doctor and it was really scary, and you 542 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: had to get a permission slip from your person. And 543 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, now, actually, we got it, We're good, 544 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: we can do it. It's no problem. And um, and 545 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: most women that that's how they prefer to do it 546 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,239 Speaker 1: privately and on their own. I think that's that's uh. 547 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 1: That made me very happy to dispel that myth. We 548 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: also did a six part series on abortion. Thank you 549 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 1: for that, by the way, you're welcome. Thank Lauren who's 550 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 1: on this zoom. Thank you her. She worked so hard 551 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: on it. But I was also surprised that the majority 552 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 1: of women who have abortions are mothers, mothers married with children. 553 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,360 Speaker 1: It's family planning, that's what you have we you know, 554 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,000 Speaker 1: I think that gets overlooked a lot, and it's about 555 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,920 Speaker 1: making sure that they have the resources. I know. I 556 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: feel this way every day as a working mom. Do 557 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: I have enough mental, emotional, physical resources for the children 558 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,080 Speaker 1: I have? And to feel like a whole person financial? 559 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: You know? Yeah? And financial and to feel like the 560 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,200 Speaker 1: whole person as well. And so it is. It's about 561 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: family planning and making sure that you have wanted children 562 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: that you planned for well. Phyllis and Elizabeth, thank you 563 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:38,280 Speaker 1: so much for for joining us and and having this conversation. 564 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: I hope a lot of people go and see the movie. 565 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 1: I hope they go and see it before they vote. 566 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: I hope they vote. Um, maybe they'll be motivated to 567 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: vote after they see the film. But congratulations, I thought 568 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: it was really really well done. Thank you. Thanks Katie 569 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: for me Called Jane and for all your work on 570 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 1: the reproductive justice. Thank you. Call Jane is in Select 571 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: Theater starting this Friday. And for more context on abortion 572 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: access in America, you can find my six part podcast 573 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: series Abortion The Body Politic right here on my Next 574 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: Question feed just scroll down a bit or by searching 575 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: any of your podcast apps. Next Question with Katie Kurik 576 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,240 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Media and Katie Curic Media, 577 00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,719 Speaker 1: the executive producers Army Katie Curic and Courtney Litz. The 578 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate producers Derek Clements and 579 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 1: Adriana Fasio. The show is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. 580 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,560 Speaker 1: For more information about today's episode, or to sign up 581 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 1: for my morning newsletter, wake Up Call, go to Katie 582 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: Currek dot com. You can also find me at Katie 583 00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 1: Curic on Instagram and all my social media channels. For 584 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,959 Speaker 1: more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I Heart 585 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 586 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 1: favorite shows. H