1
00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:20,439
Speaker 1: Lute force. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

2
00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,960
Speaker 1: You're listening to soft Web Radio Special Operations, Military Nails

3
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 1: and straight talk with the guys in the community.

4
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,920
Speaker 2: Hey, what's up everybody. Welcome back to soft rep Radio.

5
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 2: On this episode, I have James Hassen, former Army, former

6
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,400
Speaker 2: Bronze Star recipient. He wrote a book and this book

7
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:48,919
Speaker 2: is a little bit of a title that I want

8
00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,080
Speaker 2: to I just have to read it, okay, and correct

9
00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 2: me if I'm wrong, James, and then I'll get you.

10
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,280
Speaker 2: I'll get you to Welcome on the show. It's called Kaboul,

11
00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,400
Speaker 2: The Untold Story of Biden's Fiasco and the American warriors

12
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,800
Speaker 2: who fought to die to the end. Is that correct

13
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 2: or fought to the end? Fought to the end? Yes,

14
00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,000
Speaker 2: that's yeah. Well, welcome to the show.

15
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:08,679
Speaker 3: Hey, thanks, Mat, I appreciate it.

16
00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, So you've been making the circuit. You've been

17
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,680
Speaker 2: getting around talking about your book coming up. Is that

18
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:13,960
Speaker 2: what's happening? Yeah?

19
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, we released on the on the fifteenth, so people

20
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,720
Speaker 3: can find Kabble you know, Amazon or anywhere else. But

21
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,720
Speaker 3: you know, we've been trying just our best to get

22
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:23,920
Speaker 3: the word out because one of the reasons that we

23
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 3: wrote Cobble, my co author Jerry Dunleavy, and I was

24
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 3: that with twenty years of war, twenty years of experiences,

25
00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 3: twenty years of loss and for things to and the

26
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,520
Speaker 3: way they did, and then with you know, this explanation

27
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,240
Speaker 3: from the administration that this was somehow a quote success,

28
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,560
Speaker 3: that this was inevitable, that.

29
00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:45,720
Speaker 2: You know, well, which part was a success, like just

30
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 2: the overall Coble evacuation was success because they feel that

31
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:50,480
Speaker 2: the lives lost work.

32
00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, not more than just said the other day. And

33
00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,840
Speaker 3: that's also what you know, the messaging from from the

34
00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,440
Speaker 3: White House has been. But that you know that that

35
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 3: didn't well because I, you know, I knew people who

36
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,880
Speaker 3: were in Cubble when that was happening, and yeah, I

37
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 3: did it, like my tiny little part to try and

38
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 3: get the interpreters I knew out and thank god they are.

39
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 3: But it realized that there was there's a whole lot

40
00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 3: that that hadn't been told. And candidly, you know, when

41
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,840
Speaker 3: we started, I thought that I had a decent idea

42
00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,800
Speaker 3: it was what everything you know was like or what

43
00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 3: happened at least, And while writing the book, we realized

44
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 3: we didn't even know the third of it. So that's

45
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,520
Speaker 3: really you know, there has to be some accountability, and

46
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,000
Speaker 3: more more importantly, the guys in the ground and the

47
00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,040
Speaker 3: families of the thirteen deserve to.

48
00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,640
Speaker 2: Have, you know, the stories told, So more accountability than

49
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 2: just going to the VA saying that your injuries that

50
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,239
Speaker 2: you sustained overseas deployed were attributed to that situation. More

51
00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 2: than that kind of accountability to you know, you want

52
00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,560
Speaker 2: the Biden administration to, like what it's a great question,

53
00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 2: what's the accountability you know for the situation that was.

54
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 3: Honestly, if you were to ask me, I think Secretary

55
00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,520
Speaker 3: of Austin, Secretary of Blincoln should have resigned, the President

56
00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 3: should have asked for their resignations. And I can go,

57
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,239
Speaker 3: you know, into as granular detail as you want about

58
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 3: what those failings were. But at the end of the day,

59
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,639
Speaker 3: I think also like accountability, you know, starts starts with

60
00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,880
Speaker 3: the commander in chief, and that's that's a totally political matter.

61
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,760
Speaker 2: Let me say something real quick about that. Wouldn't that

62
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,919
Speaker 2: be going back to the commander in chief before him,

63
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 2: who signed the papers in December saying to evacuate all

64
00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 2: US forces and to put that on Biden's play President Biden,

65
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,240
Speaker 2: the former Trump president, wouldn't that be his? And then

66
00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,840
Speaker 2: want to go back to Reagan who actually wanted to

67
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,440
Speaker 2: go back to nineteen seventy nine, to the Soviets who

68
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,200
Speaker 2: invaded Afghanistan. The people, the beautiful people of Afghanistan, because

69
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 2: we go back and look at Rambo three, the movie

70
00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 2: when he filmed Sylvester Stallone filmed that in Afghanistan, and

71
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,280
Speaker 2: in the credits and oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and the

72
00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 2: whole game that he's playing with the horses where they're

73
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,320
Speaker 2: tossing the goat into the goal, that's with the Afghani people,

74
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 2: like the Northern Alliance, like the Mujahadeen. So when he's

75
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 2: over there doing a movie in the eighties, and you know,

76
00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:08,960
Speaker 2: Americans were able to go over there, have a whole

77
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,600
Speaker 2: film production brought over there. At the very end of

78
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,440
Speaker 2: the credits, it says thank you to the like wonderful

79
00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,920
Speaker 2: beautiful people of Afghanistan at the very end, because they

80
00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 2: are a wonderful beautiful people.

81
00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,799
Speaker 3: Would you agree, Honestly, it's one of the most beautiful

82
00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,360
Speaker 3: places I've ever seen. And there are plenty of people

83
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 3: that are not hospitable to US at all. But there

84
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:28,960
Speaker 3: are plenty of very very decent people.

85
00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:29,840
Speaker 2: Even here in America.

86
00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,840
Speaker 3: People are people. They're trying to I.

87
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,520
Speaker 2: Said, even in America, our own Americans aren't kind to

88
00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:37,599
Speaker 2: one another, let alone in Afghanistan.

89
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 3: Right, well, yeah, I mean that, you know, people are people.

90
00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:42,000
Speaker 2: That's right.

91
00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,960
Speaker 3: You're gonna you're gonna you're gonna find ship heads everywhere.

92
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,840
Speaker 3: There were, that's right, you know, And we talked about

93
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,039
Speaker 3: a lot of them in Kabul. There were a lot

94
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 3: of Afghans who served alongside the US at great risk

95
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,719
Speaker 3: and a great sacrifice, and we made this promise to

96
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,960
Speaker 3: them that if they did that, they would have a

97
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:02,720
Speaker 3: life here.

98
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 2: With us in America.

99
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 3: And not uh, you know, not fulfilling that promise, I

100
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,159
Speaker 3: think was you know, it's a stain on the nation.

101
00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,680
Speaker 3: But to get back to your other point about you know,

102
00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,600
Speaker 3: they're all of the failures that kind of led up

103
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 3: to this, right, right, which is it's a very very

104
00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:20,920
Speaker 3: valid point because if you want to tell the full

105
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,080
Speaker 3: story of everything that happened in Afghanistan, then yeah, you

106
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 3: got to. You got to at the very least you

107
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,800
Speaker 3: have to start, you know, begetting two thousand and one,

108
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,080
Speaker 3: You have to you have to talk about the fact that,

109
00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,279
Speaker 3: you know, we we deprioritized Afghanistan when when the Iraq

110
00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,919
Speaker 3: War started, you have talked, you know, talk about the

111
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,160
Speaker 3: you know, kind of this whole nation building idea where

112
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 3: we stopped focusing on, you know, doing what military does best,

113
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,680
Speaker 3: which is defeating our enemies in the field battle. And

114
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 3: you have to you know, you and and more specifically,

115
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 3: you know, when you kind of get to the latter stages,

116
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,360
Speaker 3: you absolutely have to talk about the dohagre which allowed,

117
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 3: you know, which was kind of this conditional agreement for

118
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,800
Speaker 3: US forces to withdraw and to be frank, we have

119
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,839
Speaker 3: a whole chapter in the book about the Doha Agreement.

120
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,039
Speaker 2: Isn't that where the Taliban came to the White House

121
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:11,520
Speaker 2: with Trump?

122
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:15,719
Speaker 3: So I think, yeah, I think Trump had not liked

123
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:17,599
Speaker 3: it never actually happened.

124
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 2: He didn't have them on the meeting with the Taliban.

125
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so he had a I think he he

126
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,240
Speaker 3: floated the idea of bringing them to Camp David, and

127
00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,920
Speaker 3: for obvious reasons, everyone said that's an absolutely terrible and

128
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,800
Speaker 3: it never happened. But yeah, just but again, the Doha

129
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,720
Speaker 3: Agreement was an absolutely flawed agreement. And I want to be.

130
00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 3: I want to be very clear, I don't care which

131
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,920
Speaker 3: administration and which political party was in power. We would

132
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,159
Speaker 3: have told the exact same story the exact same way,

133
00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,000
Speaker 3: because those are the facts, and the facts speak for themselves.

134
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,599
Speaker 3: But but specifically to the Doha agreement, the agreement negotiated

135
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 3: by al khali Zad, who is the Trump appointed you know,

136
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:10,000
Speaker 3: special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, was a very very

137
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 3: flawed agreement, but it was a conditional agreement, and the

138
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:19,000
Speaker 3: conditions we said, will get out and again this is it.

139
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 3: It is flawed, but we said we'll get out if

140
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,160
Speaker 3: you stop harboring al Qaida number one, if you stop

141
00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 3: attacking American troops number two, and if you agree to

142
00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 3: you know, engage in and of peace Bross diplomacy. And

143
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,400
Speaker 3: they never fulfilled any of those obligations. We were killing

144
00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,640
Speaker 3: al Qaida in Afghanistan right before the agreement, right after

145
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,560
Speaker 3: the agreement, and they are you know, card caring members

146
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,800
Speaker 3: of al Kaieda who are in the Talabank government today

147
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 3: and they continue to attack American forces. So this idea,

148
00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:59,560
Speaker 3: we we focused on the withdrawal period itself because well, frankly,

149
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,240
Speaker 3: if you're going to right, twenty years of history in Afghanistan.

150
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,520
Speaker 3: You're gonna need about ten thousand pages. But also because

151
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 3: no matter what you think about the previous mistakes or

152
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,200
Speaker 3: whether we should have gotten out or not, things didn't

153
00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,600
Speaker 3: have to end the way that they did. And we

154
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,400
Speaker 3: make a I think a very very convincing case, backed

155
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 3: up by evidence and first hand testimony that the way

156
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 3: things ended was one hundred percent due to the decisions

157
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,640
Speaker 3: and the complete lack of planning from the current administration.

158
00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,480
Speaker 2: Now the lack of planning from the other administration. Let

159
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,120
Speaker 2: me let me be devil's advocate here, right, what do

160
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 2: you think I'm gonna ask you? You're smart?

161
00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:47,640
Speaker 3: I don't know about that.

162
00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 2: But are you an attorney too? Now? You go right

163
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,199
Speaker 2: to school? Aren't you an attorney? Also? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

164
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,400
Speaker 2: you're smart. You're a juris doctorate. That means, you know,

165
00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,480
Speaker 2: doctorate of los see my listener out there. If you

166
00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 2: didn't realize, is that a lawyer goes to school for

167
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:04,640
Speaker 2: at least six years. A doctor typically goes to school

168
00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 2: for about six years. They get a doctorate, and they

169
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,040
Speaker 2: call doctor Bob at the hospital.

170
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,520
Speaker 3: If you call me doctor, I'll hang up right now.

171
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,960
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly. But a lawyer is a juris doctorate correct, Yeah,

172
00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,800
Speaker 2: technically yeah, so would that be like a doctor of law.

173
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 3: That's technically what it means.

174
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm not calling it that.

175
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,480
Speaker 3: I'm in the world if you have an attorney that's

176
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 3: going to call you doctor.

177
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, no, no no. I just want to

178
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:30,959
Speaker 2: explain that you know, as much as somebody can know

179
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 2: about the spleen and the liver and the heart and

180
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 2: all those valves, you are skilled in knowing what the

181
00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,480
Speaker 2: comma means in like a sentence.

182
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,000
Speaker 3: You your trolling me here, But yeah, I mean I guess,

183
00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 3: but more and more, yeah, more to the point.

184
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,199
Speaker 2: Just so, so my question is when planning right, because

185
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,280
Speaker 2: we know we know what planning means. It's like, you know,

186
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,640
Speaker 2: when Afghanistan, when did you get when did we When

187
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,520
Speaker 2: did the fall of KBL happen? What was that date

188
00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,760
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one? Right?

189
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, August fifteen one was when the Taliban.

190
00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,319
Speaker 2: Fully on to go base their there. We all saw

191
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,320
Speaker 2: the aircraft taking off and people trying to hold on

192
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,280
Speaker 2: to the SEAFI or the c you know C forty seven,

193
00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,520
Speaker 2: uh Sea forty seven aircraft. You know a lot of

194
00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,439
Speaker 2: that was put out there all the time too, right,

195
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,600
Speaker 2: A lot of that was shown like to show us

196
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,200
Speaker 2: consistently over and over again, like look what happened. And

197
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 2: then there was the worst of the worst because everybody

198
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 2: was crowding into the airport, so somebody took advantage of

199
00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:33,040
Speaker 2: a situation to create more catastrophe and panic. Right now,

200
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,240
Speaker 2: I wasn't there. I have talked to many, many people

201
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,600
Speaker 2: who have been there and were even captured by the

202
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,600
Speaker 2: Taliban after they had already evacked out four hundred different people,

203
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,400
Speaker 2: and they were sas, right, special Air Service guys, and

204
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:51,560
Speaker 2: they were beat on their feet for like five weeks, captured,

205
00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,600
Speaker 2: never finding out that they were sas, never finding out

206
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,840
Speaker 2: that they had moved four hundred people out because of

207
00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:00,840
Speaker 2: what we're talking about, translators, families, people who helped you

208
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,080
Speaker 2: know that are just gonna be killed. Which over there,

209
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,959
Speaker 2: they have this very barb archaic you know, law of

210
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000
Speaker 2: the land. Okay, they still are right now. I think

211
00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,760
Speaker 2: Software just wrote an article recently talking about how the

212
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,960
Speaker 2: Taliban are just pissing Afghanistan away right now, like they're

213
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,439
Speaker 2: just putting it into you know, they have the option

214
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,839
Speaker 2: right now to come out and do something with it,

215
00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 2: show the world that they could be.

216
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a stone Age ideology and and you know,

217
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 3: you get a stone Age society if that tho's the

218
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:26,959
Speaker 3: people who are.

219
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,520
Speaker 2: Running it, yeah, really quickly, you know.

220
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,880
Speaker 3: So I think the car like the original sin of

221
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 3: this whole thing was given up Bogram and abandoning Bogram.

222
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,480
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that is, well, first of all,

223
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:46,079
Speaker 3: it's important to note that every single military general, every

224
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,040
Speaker 3: every military advisor who spoke with the White House just

225
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,120
Speaker 3: pleaded with them not to give up Bogram, and it

226
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,640
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's obvious why for a strategic reason, right,

227
00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,239
Speaker 3: there's a lot of standoff this in it's very defensible.

228
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,559
Speaker 3: It was actually built by the Soviets. It also has

229
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,960
Speaker 3: a whole lot of runways, and so it's most in

230
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,640
Speaker 3: proximity to Kabble, which you know, if we kept kind

231
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,720
Speaker 3: of those assets available, it would have been we at

232
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,680
Speaker 3: least would have had somewhat of a protective radius around

233
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,079
Speaker 3: Kabble and then Bogram from which we could do an evacuation.

234
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 3: But there's also another another point to giving up Bogram,

235
00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:29,520
Speaker 3: and that is that the suicide bomber himself, who murdered

236
00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 3: thirteen Americans, that's correct, wounded forty five more, and killed

237
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:40,480
Speaker 3: two hundred Afghans. Was in prison at Parwan Prison adjacent

238
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,880
Speaker 3: to Bagram Mayfield or to Bogram, and he was released

239
00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 3: when the Taliban overran it on August fifteenth. He was

240
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 3: captured in twenty seventeen by the CIA, and because he

241
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,320
Speaker 3: was trying to conduct a suicide bombing in India of

242
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:58,640
Speaker 3: all places, and it was a joint operation between Indian

243
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 3: intelligence and the and CIA, CIA asked to have him

244
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,160
Speaker 3: in custody using inn Afghan We put him there and

245
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,080
Speaker 3: then we abandoned Bagram and he gets released by the

246
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 3: Taliban and eleven days later he's standing outside of Abby Gate.

247
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,800
Speaker 2: And so that alone is good. Know that's wild man.

248
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,040
Speaker 2: You know know that you were in prison and you

249
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,680
Speaker 2: were staring at four walls or whatever your prison cell is,

250
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,560
Speaker 2: and all you want to do is get out to

251
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,320
Speaker 2: blow yourself up because you're so dedicated to your cause.

252
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,600
Speaker 2: Your whole time in the prison is like I must

253
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,480
Speaker 2: get out of here to just blow myself up.

254
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,200
Speaker 3: You know what do What's crazy is it's impossible to

255
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,600
Speaker 3: give you like a logical explanation for an illogical action. Yeah,

256
00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:43,439
Speaker 3: but to your point. So we spoke with an American

257
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,920
Speaker 3: who was held hostage by the Taliban for sixty days

258
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,440
Speaker 3: and it is now free, thank god. But he was

259
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,400
Speaker 3: telling us about some of his time in captivity, and

260
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 3: you know, he was talking to the Taliban guards, and

261
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,720
Speaker 3: of course anyone's been in Afghanistan. No, it was like

262
00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,480
Speaker 3: the very first question that comes up and any of

263
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,440
Speaker 3: these conversations is like, do you have kids? You know,

264
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,200
Speaker 3: do you have sons specifically? And they you know, he

265
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 3: asked that to the guard and the guard said, no,

266
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,400
Speaker 3: I'm not married, and then said I was in the lottery,

267
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,400
Speaker 3: but I never got picked. And the guy said the lottery, like,

268
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,600
Speaker 3: you know, what do you mean, thinking like some kind

269
00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 3: of you know, and he said, oh, to be a

270
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,920
Speaker 3: suicide bumber. And he did this this The Taliban guard

271
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,280
Speaker 3: felt almost disappointed that his name wasn't the one that

272
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 3: got picked.

273
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,280
Speaker 2: Almost like a revelation from them, come and say it's

274
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:39,840
Speaker 2: your time.

275
00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's again. It's impossible to it. It defies explanation.

276
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 2: Well, I knew that in like I would use they

277
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:52,680
Speaker 2: would use individuals that had like Down syndrome, Yeah, and put.

278
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 3: Them and they're they're I mean they you know.

279
00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,960
Speaker 2: Truly, truly, truly just like you know, walking into this mark.

280
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,720
Speaker 2: And they just because they were cowards.

281
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 3: Just because they're cowardly, and just because they're evil.

282
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, evil, coward.

283
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:07,800
Speaker 3: And ready to describe it, you know.

284
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:09,720
Speaker 2: What I mean, And I mean just to do that

285
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,360
Speaker 2: and just to cause that, you know, commotion. These people

286
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 2: wanted to get out because you know, they wanted to

287
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,600
Speaker 2: leave the country. They thought they had to leave the country.

288
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:17,920
Speaker 2: They don't want to be there, they didn't want to

289
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 2: They wanted to be able to go to school. The

290
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,080
Speaker 2: girls were smart, are smart still smart, should run the world,

291
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,720
Speaker 2: but here they are overpowered by these guys with aks

292
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 2: and some of our blackhawks. Now interesting, Yeah, there.

293
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,680
Speaker 3: Were plenty of people that are outside the gates that

294
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,920
Speaker 3: had no connection to the US, but there were plenty

295
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,080
Speaker 3: and tens of thousands, and it's heartbreak and hear their

296
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 3: stories who who could have gotten out and should have

297
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:46,840
Speaker 3: and didn't right and Americans and you know, well over

298
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,360
Speaker 3: one thousand Americans too, which is interesting because when you know.

299
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:54,200
Speaker 3: On August thirty, first Secretary Anthony B. Lincoln, Secretary of State,

300
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,280
Speaker 3: Lincoln said it's about close to one hundred people, one

301
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 3: hundred Americans that are left behind, and that is patently false,

302
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 3: and we lay out in Cobble exactly why that's false.

303
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,200
Speaker 3: And in fact, just the other day, Blinking ragged that

304
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 3: we had evacuated nine hundred Americans since Cobble fell, and

305
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,680
Speaker 3: so so even by his own numbers, that.

306
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,160
Speaker 2: That disc is just a lie. Now for your book,

307
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,960
Speaker 2: you guys went and talked to folks who were like

308
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,760
Speaker 2: at the gate, right, almost like the Marines that were

309
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,960
Speaker 2: that They were mostly Marines, right, is that who? You guys?

310
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 3: Cat Marines and a second airborne talked some some Air

311
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,280
Speaker 3: Force folks. You know a lot of a lot of

312
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 3: those people are still serving. So we were very careful

313
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,360
Speaker 3: to try and make sure that we didn't, you know,

314
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,480
Speaker 3: put them in a really tough spot where all of

315
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,800
Speaker 3: a sudden, now you know, the brigade commanders calling down like, hey,

316
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 3: why you guys like you know, talking to dudes write

317
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,520
Speaker 3: a book. But yeah, we talked to a lot, you know,

318
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 3: more than count and what they did and what they

319
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 3: dealt with, what they did was heroic. What they dealt

320
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,159
Speaker 3: with was horrific, and but they they literally it was

321
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,359
Speaker 3: it was the best of the American people kind of

322
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,000
Speaker 3: you know, on the individual level, and the American government

323
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:14,600
Speaker 3: at its worst.

324
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,679
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow. So so let's just talk about a little bit.

325
00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,360
Speaker 2: Let me go, let me just kind of rewind here

326
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,199
Speaker 2: from my listener. I just jumped right in with you.

327
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,840
Speaker 2: Usually I say go to my merch store and I say,

328
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 2: you know, go check out our book club at software

329
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 2: dot com. So I'm getting that in there. But you know,

330
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,200
Speaker 2: it's like you were in the army. All right, let's

331
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 2: just kind of really speak on your background a little bit.

332
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,240
Speaker 2: You were airborne ranger, right.

333
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I went, I went through to school.

334
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:43,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you went into Afghanistan yourself. You've been

335
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 2: there boots on the.

336
00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,120
Speaker 3: Ground right the coast and Nangahar and.

337
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, and then what year was that?

338
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 3: Do you think I was there twenty fourteen and twenty fifteen,

339
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 3: twenty fourteen times, so it kind of as really the

340
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,160
Speaker 3: last you know, I think at twenty fifteen was when

341
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,119
Speaker 3: the the Pentagon said just it was kind of just

342
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 3: right right before I left. It was when they said, okay,

343
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,600
Speaker 3: we're ending combat operation. Since then, now i'm you know,

344
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,800
Speaker 3: as you mentioned, I'm leading like a much more boring

345
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:19,159
Speaker 3: life as a lawyer, but but a lot of like

346
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 3: you know, my my grandfather was a marine, and that's

347
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,520
Speaker 3: on my mom's side, and all of my mom's brothers,

348
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 3: all three of them served.

349
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 2: And then I have do you have lawyers? Do you

350
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 2: have attorneys in your family? Also? Are you the first attorney?

351
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:30,600
Speaker 1: No?

352
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,040
Speaker 3: No, no, my my dad was.

353
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:32,480
Speaker 2: Also.

354
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,600
Speaker 3: It was funny because I was like, I was like,

355
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:36,399
Speaker 3: there's no way I'm gonna ever gonna be like a lawyer.

356
00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 3: That's right, that sounds stupid, you know, joining the army

357
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,200
Speaker 3: and uh you know I got out and I was like, okay,

358
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 3: well it's combat arms. Like I'm not to break things,

359
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,120
Speaker 3: but I need like a skill set and uh yeah, right,

360
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,359
Speaker 3: go to go to law school. But yeah, yeah, like

361
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 3: my I have two cousins right now who are in

362
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 3: h arm special forces groups.

363
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 2: And so there's that in your blood close.

364
00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,400
Speaker 3: To like about ten across all four major brand well

365
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 3: three really no, it's in the coastcar.

366
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. You ever thought about re enlisting and going JAG

367
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,520
Speaker 2: now that you can be an officer with your attorney degree.

368
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 3: My wife would kill me.

369
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 2: You seem young, You seem like you're still young enough

370
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 2: and I know the army's looking for a looking for that.

371
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 2: It could be all you can be. Right now, I'm

372
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,399
Speaker 2: doing some free advertising right for them.

373
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,360
Speaker 3: They're definitely especially. I mean I remember being in law

374
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 3: school and just being like, man, I miss you know,

375
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,120
Speaker 3: the purpose of the people and all that. But yeah,

376
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 3: now now I'm happy. Yeah, I have a wife and

377
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 3: a daughter and my You know, if I want to

378
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 3: come home alive, I have to tell you, no, I've

379
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:41,360
Speaker 3: never thought about it.

380
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 2: After this conversation. Yes, sir, Yes, ma'am. He loves you

381
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 2: very much. He chooses your deployment. That's awesome. That's awesome.

382
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 2: So what made you you just had to get this

383
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,880
Speaker 2: off here? You have to write this? Did you? Did

384
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 2: you put your hands on the keyboard? Is this? Yeah?

385
00:19:58,480 --> 00:19:58,880
Speaker 2: You wrote?

386
00:19:58,960 --> 00:19:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah?

387
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Jerry and I I wrote it together. His

388
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,600
Speaker 3: brother we've been friends, by the way, for almost a decade,

389
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 3: and his brother did three deployments in Afghanistan is still

390
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 3: still active duty, and so Afghanistan was something that we

391
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 3: always talked about. Actually, his brother went through ranger school,

392
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,400
Speaker 3: I think just a few classes behind me, and but yeah,

393
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 3: it was something we always talked about. And then when

394
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,359
Speaker 3: there was the Dough agreement, and then when President Biden

395
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 3: gave his his speech on April April twenty twenty one

396
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 3: saying that we're getting out. We both are longtime followers

397
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 3: of the Long War Journal, which I'm sure you know

398
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,119
Speaker 3: plenty of some listeners might be as well. But you know,

399
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 3: they were cataloging at just the granular level of all

400
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 3: of the district's falling and the you know then that

401
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 3: the provincial capital is falling, and we kind of looked

402
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 3: at it and we said, oh my gosh, this is

403
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 3: this could be a kind of disaster. And talking to

404
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,040
Speaker 3: folks that I knew who were who were there, you know,

405
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 3: I knew that they saw the writing on the wall

406
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 3: as well. And then really, you know, what it comes

407
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 3: down to is that it didn't sit well with me

408
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 3: at all that this is the way that ended, and

409
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 3: and more specifically that there were a lot of mistakes

410
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 3: that we detail in Kabble. One is you know, like

411
00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,000
Speaker 3: I mentioned with Bogram, and we can get into some

412
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,879
Speaker 3: kind of during the evacuation itself that were really driven

413
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 3: a lot by decisions made by leaders in d C

414
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:31,119
Speaker 3: and put that really put no meta women at incredible risk,

415
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 3: and we abandoned the American citizens. It used to be

416
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 3: that a blue passport, right, the blue American passport is

417
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 3: the most valuable document in the world, because it meant

418
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,480
Speaker 3: if you're an American and you know, like Captain Phillips, right,

419
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 3: and like that whole whole story. If if you know

420
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 3: terrorists or pirates hijack you and have you floating on

421
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,920
Speaker 3: a boat, you know, off of Somalia, We're gonna come

422
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,399
Speaker 3: and we're gonna we're going to kill those people, and

423
00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 3: we're going to rescue you. And we actually we did

424
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 3: that even you know, in late twenty twenty in Nigeria,

425
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 3: when Americans were taken hostage by Islamic militant's affiliate with

426
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 3: Bokohram and this was the first time in modern history

427
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 3: that the American government knowingly abandoned not just American citizens,

428
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 3: but thousands of American citizens. And one thing that we

429
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 3: learned while writing Kabble was that on August twenty fourth,

430
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 3: the military, we were Admiral vasile Is, the Navy Seal

431
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 3: in particular, determined that it would be impossible to get

432
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 3: every American out by August thirty first, and they communicated

433
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 3: that to the White House. The White House knew, and

434
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 3: yet the White House continued to say publicly. National Security

435
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: Advisor Jake Sullivan said, we're gonna, you know, we're going

436
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 3: to get everybody out by the thirty first. The White

437
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 3: House Press Secretary Jensaki actually lectured a journalist who said, well,

438
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 3: what happens if we don't get people out? And she said,

439
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 3: that's irresponsible. They're not stranded. But the White House knew

440
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: at the time that that was not true, and so

441
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,440
Speaker 3: that that that just you know, it stuck in the

442
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 3: crawl and we felt like somebody needed to tell the story,

443
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 3: and we spent a year and a half doing it.

444
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 2: So when you just said what you said, are you

445
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 2: referring to Africa bocal karam a moment ago or are you

446
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,439
Speaker 2: referring to Doha kabble? When you said, Jensaki.

447
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,879
Speaker 3: The Attorney, I was speaking about Nigeria, and that just

448
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 3: to say as examples of the you know how the

449
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 3: US has always gone to rescue its citizens, and then

450
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,160
Speaker 3: in Afghanistan, we just ripped that precedent to shreds and

451
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 3: we knew that we were abandoning citizens and that that's

452
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 3: what I was saying with the Jensaki and Jake Sullivan,

453
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: they knew what they were saying as.

454
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: Falls I see, I see, now I don't. I don't know.

455
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: I'm just going to let you say that and then

456
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 2: someone can comment down below if they go find something else,

457
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 2: whatever that case is. That's that's in the book. That's

458
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: the comment section. I want to engage my listener. No,

459
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: that's why I'm poking the bear here. Please, But yeah,

460
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 2: I know it's it's great because I lived through all

461
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 2: of this as well, you know, and I've and I

462
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: can interpret what I've seen, and I think not being

463
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: there is a huge thing that I can't talk to,

464
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: you know, which I can only you know, talk from

465
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: hearsay from those that have relayed information from themselves personally

466
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 2: being there or like what you're saying, you have people

467
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,440
Speaker 2: who have heard those same things that have maybe sworn

468
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 2: a testimony to you somehow, but they're not willing to

469
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: give up that information because they're fearing reprisal or retribution

470
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: in their ranks, because they're actively in the military mind.

471
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 3: And some of them a lot of a lot of

472
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 3: what we got were actually sworn statements submitted to the

473
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 3: Pentagon that were published through Freedom of Information Act requests.

474
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,880
Speaker 2: So these would be like Pentagon papers that you guys

475
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 2: went and got like THEO on and then put that

476
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 2: to us.

477
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: And there were all the interviews that the Pentagon abby

478
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 3: Gate Report about everything that happened, kind of their like

479
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: after action review contained all of the transcribed interviews with

480
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 3: over one hundred service members. And then the second there

481
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 3: was a second investigation into the drone strike in the ninth,

482
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 3: the twenty ninth and Krabble that killed Afghan civilians. And

483
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 3: there also there were a lot of you know, sworn

484
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 3: statements submitted by individuals, and I'll add we're talking about

485
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 3: individuals in the room. People were hot like one of

486
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 3: them was the authorizing authority for fifty one different air

487
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 3: strikes or unmanned you know, air strikes in Afghanistan from

488
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 3: August eighth to August fifteenth. So you're talking about people

489
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 3: who clearly are in the know, and we quote their

490
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 3: words directly, and you know, some of their names were adacted.

491
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: We were able to kind of figure out who some

492
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 3: of them were. We have to actually get in contact

493
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 3: with some of them. But you know, again, do.

494
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 2: You think there was like behind the scenes stuff that

495
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 2: you and I haven't heard about let's make up something.

496
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: Let's be hype for hiper talking here real quick. Do

497
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: you think that maybe we need the Taliban to fight

498
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 2: the Chinese eventually? And so there has been some kind

499
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: of chess move behind the world's back to actually give

500
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,199
Speaker 2: them all that equipment and let them have all of it.

501
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: And they no, no, no, no no no, yeah, let's

502
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,959
Speaker 2: let's we will need them to defend against the Chinese.

503
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: Let's again I said the Chinese, right, they border the

504
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: China they bordered, yeah, right, and so they have all

505
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: that stuff now to kind of you know, go to battle.

506
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 3: What's interesting about it is actually China and Taliban have

507
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 3: been co op ever since though we got out, and

508
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: in fact, we spoke to the well now former I was.

509
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 2: Trying to want to cooperate with them. They'd want their land, right,

510
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 2: and so that's just another invader coming into Afghanistan, right.

511
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they want the natural resources that are

512
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 3: all on those mountains. They also Bogram is a very serviceable,

513
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: large scale military airfield that is right in that region

514
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 3: that allows them to just project all kinds of power.

515
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 3: And you know, the Taliban hasn't given it to them yet,

516
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 3: but it seems like, you know, China has some some

517
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 3: designs on that. But but it's interesting you bring up China.

518
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 3: They from the moment that this happened, they're propaganda mouthpieces,

519
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 3: uh you, including their their their foreign minister labeled it

520
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 3: the quote unquote cobble moment. That's that's how they described it.

521
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 3: And they immediately started saying things like, hey, you know, Taiwan,

522
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: if you stay with America, this is going to happen

523
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 3: to you too, like don't you see and uh.

524
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean China they call Taiwan. There's but

525
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: Taiwan calls China there, so you know, it's West China

526
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: to them, right, right or West Taiwan, right, they say

527
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: east or East China.

528
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: How do they call it what Taiwan says? But I

529
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 3: know China thinks Taiwan belongs to them.

530
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah, China's wrong because they're democracy and they're Taiwan.

531
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 2: They have their own their own people.

532
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they they but China used this as a

533
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 3: propaganda tool. And you know, even just on the anniversary

534
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 3: of the week and a half ago or two weeks

535
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 3: ago now, on the fifteenth, you know, China again described

536
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 3: it as the quote unquote Kable moment where they said,

537
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: basically America's week and America won't stand up for its friends,

538
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: and so they took it as kind of this this

539
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: you know, they're emboldened. And to that matter, so was Russia.

540
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 3: We may we have a whole chapter on that in

541
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 3: Kable where if you look at the satellite photos, you

542
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 3: look at the statements that that Russia was making, you

543
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 3: look at even the ground troop movements they had. They

544
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 3: started the military build up around Ukraine in September of

545
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, right after that withdrawal, and we all

546
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: know that they invaded, you know, in February twenty twenty two.

547
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 2: February twenty second. Yeah, that's like another nine to eleven

548
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 2: for the world right there. There's been so many casualties

549
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,239
Speaker 2: and destructions in Ukraine. Yeah, I told my friend right now,

550
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: we have to support that war over there. We have

551
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: to support those people because are you ready for a

552
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: hypersonic missile to blow up your smith's marketplace right now?

553
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: That grocery store across the street. Are you ready to

554
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: stand here while we're getting our oil change, Bobby, and

555
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: you're ready to have that place blow up behind us?

556
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 2: Are you ready? For your daughter to come screaming saying

557
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: that her neighbor has been blown apart here in America?

558
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: Or would you rather just keep the fight at bay,

559
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: you know, and just put that, you know over there.

560
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: That's that's that's the conversation that's going on in this

561
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: neck of the woods of Utah. You know where I talk? Yeah?

562
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 3: Where in Utah?

563
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: Are you?

564
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 3: By the way?

565
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: If Salt Lake City, Salic City, Park City, all the

566
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 2: fanciest places, the ski resorts, they're all my house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Utah,

567
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: that's my house. Welcome yea, well you walk into.

568
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 3: You got a nice fire back there.

569
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: Man. I do, I do. Oh. I'm hardcore mountain guy.

570
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: I'm up in the mountains. You know. We snowboard all day,

571
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: you know, pretty much every day of the week. My

572
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 2: wife and I, you know, we enjoy the snow so

573
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: we don't have to complain about it. You know. It's

574
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: like just embrace it and then yeah, because then you

575
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: shred it and you're like, I just shredded this mountain.

576
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: They say people are either like mountain people or beach people,

577
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: and I'm definitely like more of a mountain Yeah. Like

578
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 3: data week, you.

579
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: Know what I like to say, is that as someone

580
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: who's got mental health issues myself all right, that tries

581
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 2: to stay alive every single day, is I just like

582
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 2: to go outside and connect, whether I'm going and boxing

583
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 2: at the gym and yeah, just working on my own

584
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 2: self being or mental toughness. Yeah, dude, and just like

585
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: snowboarding or surfing, go and play some badminton or pickleball

586
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: or something. Go do something. Yeah, get out to pickleball. Yeah,

587
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: you know it's true, right, stay healthy, you're a ranger.

588
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 3: It's it's like, I think the more that everyone just

589
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: sits behind their computer, which is funny because we're still

590
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 3: about the computers right now, but true and kind of

591
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: loses touch with that like the worst, uh the worst.

592
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: It's for everyone's mental health, especially get on people dealt

593
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: with a whole lot.

594
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 2: See over my shoulder though, I keep my snowboard there

595
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: to make sure that you know, on my wall my

596
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 2: snow findings, yeah right there, just so you know. It's

597
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 2: it's like, hi, I know it's still September, and yes,

598
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 2: the fireplace is going it's about uh you know, eighty

599
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: degrees maybe.

600
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I was gonna say, you know, that's

601
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 3: not for warmth clearly, but I love it.

602
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I do not need to. It's definitely

603
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 2: for you. The fireplace is for you. I appreciate it, yes,

604
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: and it's it's actual. And again, go to the merch

605
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: store and buy stuff because every time you buy a

606
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: branded softwarep shirt or coffee mug or pocket knife, the

607
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: fireplace gets to stay lit, and so does mine.

608
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: If you buy cobble by the way, I'm just gonna

609
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 3: just gonna throw that out.

610
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 2: I had bro we're gonna have a link in there,

611
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: or we're gonna have it in the description for sure.

612
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: And uh, you know it's probably on Amazon, right.

613
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's Amazon and anywhere else you can find books.

614
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, even if you go check your local Mom's publish

615
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 2: or do you think this is do you uh? Do

616
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,920
Speaker 2: you think it's at the airport book lounge?

617
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 3: Your lifts to God's Ears?

618
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 2: Man? Hey, you know, well, next time you go through

619
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 2: the airport and you want to have something to read,

620
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: just go check and see if there's a book, or

621
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: download it to your phone. Yeah, simple.

622
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 3: As well.

623
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 2: Oh did you do that or did you?

624
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 3: Jerry the publisher chose somebody with a much sexier voice

625
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: than mine to do it. But yeah, but no, but

626
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 3: he does a great job, and it's he's.

627
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: Like stuff on outside of our life. And then the

628
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: six pack abs You're like, no, no, no, no, great voice,

629
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: but no, oh that's great. So tell me a story

630
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: about being a ranger. Can you tell me one thing

631
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: that was super tough for you through going through RIP,

632
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: which is ranger and doctor Nation or was that right? Rip? Yeah?

633
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 3: Give me use if you're if you're going to go

634
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: join the seventy fifth Regiment. So if you if you're

635
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: an officer, you do Ranger school first to become ranger qualified,

636
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 3: and then I do do your four years, then you

637
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 3: can apply to go through RIP and become a platoon leader.

638
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 3: I did not do that. I went through ranger school, graduated,

639
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 3: I got out after Afghanistan. I had a lot of

640
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 3: friends who applied and did get in. But I can

641
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 3: tell you about yeah, range of school just in general.

642
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: Man, Like, if somebody's looking to go right now, they're

643
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: on the fence. Yeah, they're on the fence. They're like, hey,

644
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 2: do I want to go in the army and become

645
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: a ranger? You know, give them a piece of advice.

646
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: I think what I would say is it is that

647
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 3: was probably the most grueling subone months I've ever done.

648
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 3: I lost thirty to forty pounds because you're you're sleeping

649
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 3: a couple hours a day, You're you know, you're getting

650
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 3: probably like one thousand and twelve hundred calories, and you're

651
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 3: walking with like eighty pounds on your back the whole time,

652
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: and you know, doing training and then doing you know,

653
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: training mission where they evaluate you. I remember one time

654
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,040
Speaker 3: just walking on a trail and literally falling asleep and

655
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 3: waking up. The trail turned. It was it was kind

656
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 3: of a file formation, and the trail turned right, and

657
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 3: I just they called droning. I just kept walking straight,

658
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 3: just walked right right off the trailer in the woods.

659
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 3: And I remember just waking up this all right, just

660
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 3: like slapping me on the helmet, just like, what the

661
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: hell are you doing?

662
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: But you're trying to get some sleep.

663
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:15,319
Speaker 3: Man, I just I don't know, I don't know what

664
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: I'm doing right now.

665
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. But so so you got back in column right formation.

666
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I got back and just just pretended it, you know,

667
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 3: kept trying to keep an eye on the.

668
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 2: How is land navigation did you work on land nav

669
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: using like a compass and a protractor.

670
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 3: Of course, they give you a bunch of points and

671
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 3: it's all you know, like the trains all about, like

672
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,399
Speaker 3: you know, branches and vines like two inches in front

673
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 3: of your face. The whole time you're trying to like

674
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 3: you can't use anything that you know, and it's a night.

675
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 3: But you know, I was able to like stumble into

676
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 3: the right points, I guess, and uh, you know, but

677
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 3: when I was actually in the army, my god, man,

678
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 3: I relied on the n CEOs and whoever that point

679
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 3: man was to be like, tell me where we need

680
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 3: to go. Because not my greatest skill set, but there's

681
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 3: good enough, I guess, just to pass school.

682
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you had to pass at school.

683
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 3: But you know that there's always somebody's been doing it

684
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 3: a lot longer than you have, and there's a lot

685
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 3: better than you do.

686
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 2: So yeah, so maybe get a lens static compass if

687
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: you're thinking about doing it, and start messing around with

688
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 2: that and learning about all the different functions of like

689
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 2: a lens static compass. Did you have technology to find

690
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 2: your land navigation or was it a lens static that

691
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 2: lens static style?

692
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 3: Yep, just the old school compass. And that's really all

693
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 3: you need, you know, like GPS can failure. But but

694
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 3: the compass some points in the north, you know, yep,

695
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean back to to specifically to Afghanistan.

696
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 3: I you know one thing that you know, you asked

697
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 3: about stories and that that's actually what kind of just

698
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 3: chogged my thought on that we had the absolute honor

699
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 3: and privilege of hearing a lot of the you know,

700
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 3: whether the eighty second guys, whether they were you know,

701
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 3: the Marines from two to one or you know, even

702
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 3: three ten ten mountain guys tell their stories of what

703
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 3: they dealt with because they were placed in an impossible situation.

704
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 3: On August fourteenth, we had six hundred troops in the

705
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: country that was it in a tiny airstrip in a

706
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 3: dense urban environment surrounded by you know, pallar buildings that

707
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 3: have oversight over you know, yeah, basically run and we

708
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 3: ended up flying five thousand people back into the country

709
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: to help this, you know, to secure it and help

710
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 3: the evacuation. But a lot of them landed without. It

711
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 3: was so it was so quick and everything was so

712
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 3: at hog that they landed without you know, some of

713
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 3: them didn't they didn't have a map, they'd never been

714
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 3: to h guy before you have the you know, the

715
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 3: crew chief on that the C one thirty just pointing

716
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 3: and saying, hey, north is that way, and you know,

717
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 3: guiding him into into positions. Some of them were when

718
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 3: if you remember that those scenes of you know, the

719
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 3: crowds flooding the airfield and you know, the people falling

720
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 3: off planes, and that was August.

721
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: Fifteenth, Baby up to the Marines.

722
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, fallowing off the airplanes as they were

723
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 3: taking off because they were trying to cling on for

724
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 3: dear life. They were there. Some of the Marines from

725
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: two to one were you know, they come from Jordan

726
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 3: and they were in my memories. I believe tark Weight

727
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 3: it's it's in the book. I'm just confusing the two

728
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 3: air base names right now. But they were there and

729
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 3: the last thing that they saw before they got on

730
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 3: the flight was was that chaos. And in between when

731
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 3: they took off and when they landed, we were able

732
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 3: to clear the airfield with the help of the CIA's

733
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 3: para paramilitary organization that did National strike units. But so

734
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 3: they landed thinking we're about we're walking like we're in

735
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 3: to land and there're gonna be people like twenty feet

736
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 3: off the ramp and you know, we're gonna be kind

737
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 3: of like wrestling hand to hand with people, the same

738
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 3: way our buddies are. And but that at that point

739
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 3: it was you know, it was clear year and that

740
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 3: they got off, and you know, the NCO was like, hey,

741
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 3: get up, you know, should add like it's it's you're fine.

742
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 3: But the point of that is they had no idea

743
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 3: what they were walking into. And then what they dealt

744
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 3: with at the gates. You know that the crowds were desperate,

745
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 3: so they before the first shift at Abby Gate for

746
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 3: one of these platoons, and Abby Gate was was that's

747
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: the gate obviously where the bombing happened. It's also it

748
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 3: was one of the main entrance points for American says

749
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 3: Afghan allies, but also just the crowds of people who

750
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 3: didn't eat the criteria but wanted to get in. And

751
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 3: but before that first shift, their chaplain, it was a

752
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 3: Catholic priest, told them, you know, you're going to see

753
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,240
Speaker 3: things that no person should ever have to see. And

754
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 3: one of the Marines we spoke to said, you know,

755
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 3: I didn't know what he mean. I was like, okay, chaplin,

756
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 3: and then he said, like, you know, several hours later,

757
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: I got it because there was a dead baby just

758
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 3: floating in the canal right in front of me, and

759
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: they they went, you know, babies and women being trampled

760
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 3: to death by the crowds. There were women throwing themselves

761
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 3: on the razor wire to try and either hurt themselves

762
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 3: enough that they got medical treatment and brought inside the airfield,

763
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 3: or because they didn't want they wanted to they kill

764
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 3: themselves because they didn't want to go back through the

765
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 3: Taliban checkpoints that are just brutalized.

766
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 2: And that's right, because they're yeah, because want to be free.

767
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: They were allowed in the Taliban to provide security again

768
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 3: because of that failure to plan. But then also, you

769
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 3: know they watched, you know, the Afghan or the Taliban

770
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: were beating Afghan allies. They're beating American citizens and in

771
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 3: some cases executing.

772
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: Where the hell were the Afghan army doing anything at all?

773
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 2: I just want to say something real good. Where the

774
00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: hell were they? Why weren't they standing up? Why are

775
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 2: they willing to be translators for the Green Berets, Why

776
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 2: are they willing to go and risk their lives? And

777
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 2: now is suddenly we got to pull them out. Why

778
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: can't they just stay there and fight like we fought

779
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: against the British. Why can't they just die for their country,

780
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 2: you know, with arms like wor supposed to do.

781
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great.

782
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 2: Why is it our fault that they don't defend their country? Yeah?

783
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 3: No, No, I mean I think there's plenty. There's plenty

784
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 3: of that to go around. And we talked about that

785
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 3: a lot in Cobble. The people have talked about are

786
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 3: kind of like the interpreters are served with US units,

787
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 3: and when the US units they were left behind. But

788
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 3: for the Afghan military, I remember, you know there's there

789
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 3: was one air force, remember this Air Force Special Operations comming.

790
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,320
Speaker 3: I'm trying to be a discrete here, but he said,

791
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 3: and we quote in the book, and you know there

792
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 3: was there was basically a riot at the gates and

793
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 3: a lot of them were young military age males who

794
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 3: had no connection to the US and no connection to

795
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 3: Afghan government even, who were pushing, shoving, punching, trying to

796
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: get their way through. And he said he remembered thinking, man,

797
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 3: if you guys just fought the Taliban is half as

798
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 3: hard as you're fighting us right now, we wouldn't be

799
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: in this situation. So there's there's and there are a

800
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 3: lot of units that just melted away. As anyone in

801
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 3: Afghanistan knows, allegiances changed very quickly, and you know, you

802
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: can rent loyalty, but you can't buy it. But you know,

803
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 3: but there a lot of those other people, those interpreters,

804
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 3: Afghan contractors, they were loyal and they were there and

805
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 3: and we we bandoned them, and that I think is

806
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 3: just morally disgraceful.

807
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: Well let's let's let's put into perspective then real quick.

808
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,319
Speaker 2: You know, James, if there was about six to nine

809
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: hundred of our troops, soldiers, marines in country that were there,

810
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 2: you know, under orders, you know, what are they going

811
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: to do? Right? Right?

812
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 3: I mean I think so said the airfield on the road.

813
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, to get out. You got to get out, right

814
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: if we're getting out? And so.

815
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry to interrupt, Yeah, I mean that's well.

816
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,560
Speaker 2: I was just thinking like so, you know, when we

817
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 2: had the height of the you know, looking for Bin

818
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: Laden and going to our Bora caves, you know, Delta

819
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 2: was going after him, getting stopped in Pakistan because they

820
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 2: couldn't cross borders and all these different types of things

821
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: that were going on, and then all of a sudden,

822
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 2: you know, we're down to like eight hundred people. Six

823
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: you know, there was a whole administration six hundred people

824
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 2: and prior to that, for four years, Trump could have

825
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 2: uped those numbers or whatever. Yeah, he could have done something,

826
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,800
Speaker 2: but no, he just pulls out and signs it under

827
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 2: you know, direct that he's not the president anymore, and

828
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 2: he's just putting that on Biden's plate. And I get that,

829
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: but it should be the American's failure. It shouldn't just

830
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: be attached to Biden. Well, so we voted for both

831
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 2: of those guys.

832
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me let me be very clear. I think

833
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 3: that that was what what you know, and even December

834
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty one or twenty twenty excuse me, twenty

835
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,720
Speaker 3: twenty after your action, you know, Trump, you know, proclaimed

836
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 3: like we're just gonna get everyone out right now, which

837
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,399
Speaker 3: also would have been an absolute disaster, and he got

838
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 3: talked out of it, and thank god that didn't happen.

839
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 3: And we're also we're very very clear eyed about you know,

840
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 3: Secretary Michael, let's.

841
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 2: Talk about who talked him out of that, right, General Millie, Yeah,

842
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: I believe so if that's the case.

843
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 3: It was, it was it was the joint chiefs when

844
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: he's a chairman, you know. But like again in twenty

845
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 3: twenty in the summer, you know, Mike Pompeia was was

846
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,759
Speaker 3: also saying things that you know about the Taliban's ability

847
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 3: to in at the Taliban breaking with al Qaeda, that

848
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 3: just we're not true and we know we're not true.

849
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:01,400
Speaker 3: And as we point that out in the book. So

850
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 3: you know, we speak about Biden because he is the

851
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 3: commander in chief and he was the one that made

852
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 3: the decision when the military asked to keep twenty two

853
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 3: hundred people there in the whole bog at least in

854
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 3: terms of while also even if you're conducting an evacuation,

855
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: let's keep at least you know, whole bogram while we

856
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: do it. They said that thirty five hundred was the ideal,

857
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 3: but there were there were twenty five one hundred people

858
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,400
Speaker 3: still in the country when Biden and they.

859
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: Asked for.

860
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 3: And so there were twenty five hundred still in the

861
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 3: country and they didn't have orders to leave, yet those

862
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 3: orders came from it. That's why you know what we

863
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 3: focused on that point in time, because no matter where

864
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 3: you come down in the first nineteen years. It was

865
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 3: the decisions that were made to abandon Bogram, but then

866
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 3: also to ignore all of the warnings coming from the

867
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 3: military and even from the embassy officials, including the regional

868
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 3: security officer, who's that the head State Department security guy

869
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 3: stand warrying that, you know, Cobble was going to collapse,

870
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 3: the Taliban were going to take over, and we're gonna

871
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: have a disaster, and they ignored that. And so that

872
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 3: that's why, you know, if you see in the subtitle

873
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 3: of the book, it references Biden, but we're very very

874
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 3: clear about the failures.

875
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 2: That led up to it.

876
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, he's a commander

877
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 3: in chief. The buckstops there, and he made the decisions

878
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 3: that he made independently, and in fact, he stated that

879
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 3: he would have withdrawn. He said this in his I

880
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: believe in his April speech announcing with draw for twenty

881
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 3: twenty one, he said, Doha, no, Doha, I would have

882
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,320
Speaker 3: gotten out. And it's funny because they thought this was

883
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: a great idea, and they thought that this was this

884
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 3: is going to be kind of a win for them,

885
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 3: and so throughout the spring and summer they were actually

886
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 3: taking a lot of credit for making a decision. And

887
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 3: it wasn't until everything fell apart that all of a

888
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 3: sudden you hear this, Oh, our hands were tied. We

889
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 3: were forced to do this again. The Dough agreement was

890
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 3: conditions based. The Taliban didn't meet the conditions, we didn't

891
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 3: have to get out, and those twenty five hundred were

892
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: still there and didn't have redeployment orders before prison Biden commit.

893
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: So if I pick up kind of, you know, the

894
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: gist of what just you just said, and I interpret

895
00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,240
Speaker 2: it through my specialism as in special led through school,

896
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,399
Speaker 2: so I have to interpret it that way, is that,

897
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 2: you know, the administration of Biden was hoping that something

898
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: could you know, transpire that was more successful than what

899
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,200
Speaker 2: had happened. Pulling out of a war is going to

900
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: be difficult no matter who's in charge when you're pulling out. Okay,

901
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 2: whether it's the previous guy or the previous guy or

902
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 2: the next guy, so or gal let's be open here, okay,

903
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 2: guy or gal okay, because it could have been anybody's

904
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 2: name in that title, I imagine was what you're kind of

905
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 2: saying to me right now. Yeah, And so as long

906
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 2: as they're in command at the time that that all happened.

907
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: Respect on that.

908
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 3: You know, it could have been anybody who made those decisions,

909
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 3: because I don't want to say passively as in command,

910
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 3: because he actively made those decisions.

911
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: And the thing is is that, you know, I think

912
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 2: the hope was that they would defend their country. That

913
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,480
Speaker 2: these Green Berets and these Special Operation Teams and these

914
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 2: CIA teams that you mentioned, these National teams and all

915
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 2: these things have been working with the Afghan people for

916
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 2: these years. They've been working with them all in different areas,

917
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 2: in different villages and you know, tribal areas. Yeah, it's like,

918
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: you know what are we like?

919
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 3: No? No, no, I mean I'm a sympathetic.

920
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 2: Are you damned if you do or damned if you don't?

921
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, well I'm a sympathetic to the next

922
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 3: guy as wanting to you know, to get out. That's

923
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 3: actually kind of where my sympathies were. Like, you know,

924
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 3: so I'm not speaking to the eventual decision to withdraw

925
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 3: troops specifically, were speaking to all of the decisions that

926
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 3: were made then, but to your point about the Afghans

927
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: or the decisions that are made along the way to

928
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,240
Speaker 3: do it in such a foolhardy and you know, frankly

929
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 3: politically motivated decision that ultimately led to the loss of

930
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: thirteen lives, thousands of Americans abandoned, and thousands, tens of

931
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 3: thousands of Afghan allies abandoned. But to your point about

932
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 3: the Afghan military, I think that this is something that

933
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 3: we point out in Kabble.

934
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 2: We you know in your book that we have whole

935
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 2: story went out in.

936
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 3: Our book Kabble, which you can find in Amazon that

937
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:24,240
Speaker 3: the so the administration continued to push this talking point

938
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 3: that the Afghan military was three hundred thousand strong, and

939
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 3: even General Millie pushed this talking point in you know,

940
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 3: while testifying to Congress, and that that was simply and

941
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 3: it was known inside the Pentagon that that that number

942
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 3: was inflated and besides being inflated, inaccurate. And there's two

943
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 3: reasons for that. First, when they were doing that, they

944
00:47:46,040 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 3: were counting Afghan local police, Afghan border police in the

945
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,919
Speaker 3: figures of you know, the strength of their military, which yeah,

946
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 3: they're they're they're armed, but you wouldn't say, like police

947
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,520
Speaker 3: in Peoria, Illinois, you wouldn't add those account of the

948
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 3: US strength of our military.

949
00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 2: Right.

950
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 3: But then Also, and more problematic, there was this issue

951
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: of they're called ghost units and they existed entirely on

952
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 3: paper with names, you know, of supposed soldiers in this battalion,

953
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 3: but they didn't actually exist, and they were just a

954
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 3: way for corrupt Afghan military officials to pocket all of

955
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 3: the salaries that they were getting for you know, having

956
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,239
Speaker 3: those people supposedly there. And on top of that, they

957
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 3: continued repeating that figure even through spring and summer when

958
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 3: the Taliban onslaught was happening and Afghan soldiers being killed

959
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 3: by the thousands, others getting you know, others deserting or

960
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 3: falling apart, So that that was simply a you know,

961
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 3: if you want to make the case to the American people,

962
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 3: hey we're going to do this, but also the Afghan

963
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 3: military is going to fall apart, the country's going to

964
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: fall apart, go ahead and make that case. But what

965
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 3: they did is they pretended that this was somehow going

966
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:00,319
Speaker 3: to be a viable option where the Afghan mility terry

967
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 3: just stands up on its own and there's something important

968
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 3: I want to get to that led from that and real, real,

969
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 3: sure like actual handible harm from that. But just to

970
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 3: underscore what I'm saying, we spoke with CIA. Individuals are

971
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 3: relatively high places of the CIA, and we quote this

972
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 3: in our book Cobble. The agency's assessment was without American

973
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 3: contractor support or military support, the Afghan military would collapse

974
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: between thirty days and ninety days. Ninety days being the

975
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 3: most optimistic. And so you know, by and this is

976
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 3: what I alluded to. That's what I said when I

977
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 3: wanted to get to something, by creating this rosy narrative

978
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 3: for the American people that this wasn't you know, this

979
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 3: isn't going to happen, and also failing to plan for

980
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 3: when it did happen. What it did is it created

981
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: this false sense of security for a lot of Americans

982
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 3: who were in Afghanistan working as aid workers for NGOs,

983
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 3: for the World Bank, that you know, they don't need

984
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 3: to get out now because everything's okay. And you know,

985
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 3: at one point even Secretary Blincoln said, Afghanistan is not

986
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 3: going to fall between a Friday and a Monday, and

987
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 3: lo and behold, it actually literally fell kind of Friday Monday.

988
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 2: They even said it fell faster than they wanted it

989
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 2: to fall.

990
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it literally fell exactly over a weekend the

991
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,319
Speaker 3: way way, you know, said yeah, and what is going

992
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 3: to happen? And when that happened, right those Americans right

993
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 3: behind the Taliban with a Taliban between them and safety.

994
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: Oh. I outfitted guys that were going over there from

995
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:42,239
Speaker 2: Utah to bring their friends out. They I have a combats.

996
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 2: They were looking, well, I do war games and so

997
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 2: I have all the equipment that you wear. And he

998
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: came in. He's like, I need eight plate carriers. And

999
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: I was like, I know what you're doing. You're not

1000
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 2: playing Airsoft, but you want Airsoft gear because it's readily available.

1001
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 2: You know, the market was crazy during COVID. And if

1002
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: you have there is nothing on.

1003
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 3: The BA Ballistic Black Carrier, then all right.

1004
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 2: But here's my Airsoft store and it's got all sorts

1005
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 2: of gear inside of it. That's just everything we do

1006
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 2: for war games. And I've got these guys rolling in

1007
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 2: and I'm like, where do you play? That's what I say.

1008
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, what what team are you on? He's like,

1009
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 2: I'm doing other things. I was like, oh, okay, full

1010
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 2: price peace out.

1011
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 3: You got contract stories of some of those groups who

1012
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:27,480
Speaker 3: went you know, who went back, and yeah, you know.

1013
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 2: And I'm happy for them. I'm happy they went back

1014
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 2: and they tried.

1015
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 3: To do the right but oh yeah, but you know, yeah, but.

1016
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,799
Speaker 2: Some friends of mine went also to Ukraine to get

1017
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 2: friends out of Ukraine. You know, they're friends, like they

1018
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 2: don't want to go to war, bro they don't want

1019
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: to be in war.

1020
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 3: But they but they also have a deep sets of

1021
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 3: justice and also, yeah, you know, it's kind of there

1022
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 3: was this idea of you know, if not me, then

1023
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,800
Speaker 3: who went when it came to stranded Americans stranded Afghans

1024
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 3: because the government wasn't doing it. And to this day,

1025
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 3: the people who have evacuated the most American citizens from

1026
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 3: Afghanistan have been these private groups and in some days,

1027
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 3: in some ways they've done that despite administration, you know,

1028
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,359
Speaker 3: the State Department interference and at times the interpreter. At

1029
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: times the administration has actually claimed credit for their successes.

1030
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,640
Speaker 3: And one specific example of that is interpreter's last names Khalilie,

1031
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 3: who was the guy who helped rescue Joe Biden in

1032
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 3: two thousand and seven when he was a senator and

1033
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 3: he was visiting Afghanistan as part of you know, congressional visit,

1034
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 3: and this helicopter got forced down and this interpreter in

1035
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 3: a snowstorm, and this interpreter went, you know, kind of

1036
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 3: out in the middle of nowhere and was there and

1037
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 3: helped facilitate his rescue. And then he you know, his

1038
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 3: story became known when everything collapsed and he was left behind,

1039
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 3: and he publicly pleaded in the Wall Street Journal, you know,

1040
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 3: don't leave me behind, almost essentially return the favor. And

1041
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 3: the Biden administration said on August thirty first, after we

1042
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 3: pulled out, that they were going to do everything they

1043
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,799
Speaker 3: could to make sure that he escaped, and he was

1044
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: rescued by a group of veteran and former intelligence community

1045
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,399
Speaker 3: officials who got him out of the country. They drove

1046
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 3: him out of the country, taking a thirteen hour route

1047
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 3: to avoid Talben checkpoints. They got him to a safe

1048
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 3: house in Pakistan, and it was only then that the

1049
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 3: administration learned that he was out of the country. And

1050
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 3: when they found out where he was because this group

1051
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 3: was trying to arrange safe passage to Kosovo, the State

1052
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 3: Department left capital of Pakistan and drove out to where

1053
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 3: the safe house was and completely exposed the location of

1054
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 3: AT Number one. Picked this guy up and his family up.

1055
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,360
Speaker 3: Very deserving but they picked them up, left all of

1056
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 3: the other evacuees in that safe house behind, and then

1057
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 3: flew him back to the United States or out of Pakistan,

1058
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 3: excuse me, and publicly took credit for keeping their promise.

1059
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 3: And they even have the goal to think the quote

1060
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 3: groups who helped along the way, and I think that's uh,

1061
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 3: you number one, you.

1062
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:10,439
Speaker 2: Don't think that was all tied in at all. There's

1063
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: no you don't think there's any backdoor channel that we're not.

1064
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 3: We spoke to people, we spoke to. We spoke to

1065
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 3: the individuals responsible for that evacuation, and they told us

1066
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 3: that story. We didn't know about it. They told it

1067
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 3: to us because we were trying to just learn more

1068
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 3: about what they create, what they were doing to, you know,

1069
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 3: rescue people. And I asked, you know, as as the government,

1070
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 3: but helpful and this individuals said. There are multiple individuals

1071
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 3: who spoke to and one of them said, no, in fact,

1072
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 3: you know, in some cases, they put all of our

1073
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 3: lives at risk by you know, exposing that safehouse just

1074
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:46,640
Speaker 3: to claim credit.

1075
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they're expendable. And fortunately that's the that's that

1076
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 2: covert world, right. You never hear we never heard us.

1077
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: You never saw this. None of this ever happened, and

1078
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 2: if it did happen, we don't know nothing about it.

1079
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 2: And it's like all Lord of War.

1080
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 3: And that's why some of these stories are very important

1081
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 3: to tell and we try to tell them in the book.

1082
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Capture, And I'm happy that to meet you,

1083
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 2: and I'm glad that you put this on paper and

1084
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 2: you've put it into a book, and you know I

1085
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 2: would and we didn't want to give spoilers. You guys

1086
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,320
Speaker 2: have all watched it if you've watched the actions of Coble,

1087
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,919
Speaker 2: but this has more insights from people who were there

1088
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,120
Speaker 2: that James went and talked with and got all that

1089
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 2: insight in. And so this book I'm going to read

1090
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 2: it again. It's called Cobble, The Untold Story of Biden's

1091
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,919
Speaker 2: Fiasco and the American warriors who fought to the end.

1092
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 2: All right, so go check that out. It should be

1093
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 2: dropping at all your favorite places, Amazon, etc. We've already

1094
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 2: mentioned that real quick. I do want to mention that

1095
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 2: I do have that merch store, and you know, go

1096
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 2: check it out at soft rep dot com and get

1097
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,279
Speaker 2: some branded goods. And we really love that you send

1098
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: us some tag us on Instagram and stuff, so keep

1099
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 2: doing that and on behalf of James. I just want

1100
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 2: to say thank you so much, James.

1101
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 3: Thanks man. This was awesome. There was a it was

1102
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 3: a lot more fun than you know, a center conversation

1103
00:55:59,280 --> 00:55:59,799
Speaker 3: with anyone else.

1104
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 2: A little different, huh, A little different, bro. Thanks Ranger.

1105
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 2: I appreciate you. Appreciate your attorney juris doctorate. Dude, I

1106
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 2: wish you know. I'm young enough. I could still get one. Okay,

1107
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 2: still can do it. I still can actually graduate f

1108
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: I can finish college. My lawyer friends tell me you

1109
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: know your problem. Rad I'm all, what, You're not a lawyer.

1110
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 2: I'm like you, dick.

1111
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, they tell me you know your problem.

1112
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 2: You're a lawyer, so you're a lawyer. Well, mister attorney,

1113
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: mister Ranger, mister American bleeds red blood just like me.

1114
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 2: I want my listener to know that you can have

1115
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 2: a random conversation with a stranger and still come out

1116
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 2: of it saying it was nice talking to you one

1117
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 2: hundred percent, and thank you to my listener. First soft rep.

1118
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:48,400
Speaker 2: Thanks to all the special operation forces out there that

1119
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 2: go and do things that I just sleep through. So

1120
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 2: all right, Well, with that said, I just want to

1121
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 2: say thanks again. Go buy that book, check it out,

1122
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 2: and likely subscribe. Comment down below is right saying peace.

1123
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: You've been listening to self red lydia h.