Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this
Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls.
Speaker 2: On the Internet.
Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, So I wanted to share a new podcast
Speaker 1: with you all that I cannot get enough of, called
Speaker 1: Our Ancestors Were Messy by Coco Hill Productions. All about
Speaker 1: the messy, complicated, petty stories from historical figures that they
Speaker 1: probably did not cover in school. It is something that
Speaker 1: has been bringing me a ton of joy lately, so
Speaker 1: I wanted to share it with you all too, So
Speaker 1: check it out and don't forget to subscribe.
Speaker 3: The Secret Adventures of Black People presents Our Ancestors were Messy.
Speaker 4: On the Craig Well is poor, having only his wages
Speaker 4: to depend on.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, today, a forbidden romance threatens the future
Speaker 3: of one of DC's most elite families.
Speaker 2: And Lulu was probably like, I don't care about this
Speaker 2: side of the track. That side of the track, I'm
Speaker 2: in love.
Speaker 3: And provides podder for two of DC's busiest gossip columnists.
Speaker 4: Dear Louise, your letter to the household last week was
Speaker 4: read with a great deal of interest.
Speaker 3: This episode stops Junkoline Hill, host of the podcast explain
Speaker 3: it to me for Box Black Alive and your host
Speaker 3: Nicole Hill, Oh diadd I think it's dad. This is
Speaker 3: our Ancestors Were Messy, a podcast about our ancestors and
Speaker 3: all their drama.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Where did you grow up?
Speaker 4: So? I bounced around Kansas and Missouri for a good
Speaker 4: chunk of my childhood. But I feel like when people
Speaker 4: ask where you're from, they're asking where did you graduate
Speaker 4: from high school? And the answer to that question is Albuquerque,
Speaker 4: New Mexico.
Speaker 2: Albuquerque, New Mexico, which I mean, I love it there,
Speaker 2: but wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like the number one thing people say is like,
Speaker 4: oh they got black people there? In the answer snow
Speaker 4: and that's why I am not there.
Speaker 2: So where are you now? So I'm in DC now.
Speaker 4: I moved out here to go to Howard like most
Speaker 4: Howard grads. That's probably the longest I've gone without saying
Speaker 4: the words. I went to Howard and I just stayed
Speaker 4: ever since.
Speaker 2: And what would you say, is your relationship to the city?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I really do feel like it raised me.
Speaker 4: I was talking with someone recently and I asked, how
Speaker 4: long do you have to live in a place to
Speaker 4: no longer be considered a transplant because I've lived in
Speaker 4: DC for fifteen years now.
Speaker 2: And my friend was like, you're good. Yeah, you're in.
Speaker 2: I've been on and off in DC for twenty years.
Speaker 2: I'm not there now, but I'm only ever away for
Speaker 2: like a couple of years at a time. But I
Speaker 2: count myself and I keep leaving. So you're in. You've
Speaker 2: been there the whole time, steady, No.
Speaker 4: I essentially bleed mambo sauce.
Speaker 2: Now, as far as now, what kind of a black
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 4: Ooh, Okay, I've been thinking about this.
Speaker 2: And I feel like.
Speaker 4: Original recipe, Like I am just a regular, a very
Speaker 4: regular black person, like not a new black, just old
Speaker 4: fashioned black lady. Well okay, I'm not an old fashioned
Speaker 4: black lady. Let me not say that, but I mean,
Speaker 4: I was like, what is that old fashioned?
Speaker 2: What's the original recipe? I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't have all the bells and whistles, like, I'm
Speaker 4: not like, ooh, post racial society, even the conversations like
Speaker 4: the diaspora wars. I think I'm a little original recipe
Speaker 4: in that because I'm like, y'all, we.
Speaker 2: Are all black. What are you and like people will
Speaker 2: argue about the one drop rule and I'm like, mmm,
Speaker 2: you're black.
Speaker 4: I also, I think I have a very good black
Speaker 4: dar Like there are people who are black and I
Speaker 4: clock it, and I have friends who are like, that's
Speaker 4: a black person. I'm like, I I know when a
Speaker 4: Negro is in my presence.
Speaker 2: I'm okay. So this might be this is awkward, this
Speaker 2: is the third rail, but we're gonna this story is
Speaker 2: about class. Yes, so on a scale of one to five,
Speaker 2: one being trash and five being like free, clear, honest,
Speaker 2: easy to do. Can you rate the quality of the
Speaker 2: conversations about class that you've witnessed within the black community.
Speaker 2: Oh it's hard to do.
Speaker 4: It's hard because sometimes it's good and then sometimes it's bad.
Speaker 4: Like I said, I went to Howard and there's that
Speaker 4: tweet where someone's like, I hate Howard.
Speaker 2: Bitches.
Speaker 4: They're always in the bathroom arguing about slavery, and it's like,
Speaker 4: I that's I am at the party. I am the
Speaker 4: person in the bathroom arguing about slavery.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm hmmm.
Speaker 4: Also, the thing is everyone tends to get blinded by
Speaker 4: their own experience, and there's a defensiveness like an inherent defensiveness.
Speaker 4: M I'm gonna give it a two. I'm gonna give
Speaker 4: the conversations a two, especially if they're happening online.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, don't even try. Oh my god, I know.
Speaker 2: Then it's like zero, It's yeah, why do you think
Speaker 2: that is? Why do you think class is such a
Speaker 2: like it makes people defensive?
Speaker 4: Okay, I think no matter who you are, class gets sticky.
Speaker 4: It's that whole thing. It's like, don't talk about politics
Speaker 4: and money and it's both those things together. But I
Speaker 4: think for so long class and race has been married
Speaker 4: in this country, and for good reason, like understandably so
Speaker 4: there have been systemic things that, you know, uh, make
Speaker 4: a lot of black people part of the same class
Speaker 4: and make it very hard to have upward mobility. But
Speaker 4: when that upward mobility does exist, it can get a
Speaker 4: little sticky because it's this thing of well, you're still
Speaker 4: experiencing racism, and it's like yeah, but also like there
Speaker 4: are privileges that come with having money, and then there's
Speaker 4: all this like class anxiety that's harder to move up
Speaker 4: in the world, and then you feel defensive about it,
Speaker 4: and it's just it gets sticky so quickly.
Speaker 2: How comfortable are you with discussing class. Oh, I'm pretty
Speaker 2: comfortable with it.
Speaker 4: But again, I think that's because I've been arguing in
Speaker 4: bathrooms about the bathroom for the past fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Okay. The story is about class and is actually in
Speaker 2: DC ooh, back when it was really Chocolate City, back
Speaker 2: when it was becoming Chocolate City. We are in the
Speaker 2: Gilded Age aka the Victorian Era aka the eighteen eighties.
Speaker 2: In Society News, President Grover Cleveland has become the first
Speaker 2: and only president to get married in the White House.
Speaker 2: Ye bride is twenty seven years his junior, and she
Speaker 2: told their reverend, doctor Byron Sutherland, that they would be
Speaker 2: changing her vows from honor love and obey to honor
Speaker 2: love and keep a progressive lady, aggressive young lady. Reverend
Speaker 2: doctor Sutherland is like, fine, we can do whatever you want,
Speaker 2: because I've already been in so much trouble because he'd
Speaker 2: married another DC recently, and in doing so, he'd ushered
Speaker 2: in one of the biggest society scandals that the black
Speaker 2: elite had ever seen. This is the story of a
Speaker 2: battle between romance and class. This is the story of
Speaker 2: the scandalous loves of Lulufrancis.
Speaker 4: Oohoo, I love first of all, I love love, I
Speaker 4: love scandals, I love drama.
Speaker 2: This is the story for you then, Okay, So slavery
Speaker 2: ended twenty years ago. Black people are moving all around
Speaker 2: the country now that they can, and they're trying to
Speaker 2: decide where do we want to be? What city are
Speaker 2: we about to turn chocolate? A lot of them decide
Speaker 2: on Washington.
Speaker 1: D c.
Speaker 2: Period. So there are a lot of really great black
Speaker 2: schools there, obviously. Hu you know, there's a ton of
Speaker 2: other black people around that's very attractive, the highest concentration
Speaker 2: of black people in the nation at that time. And
Speaker 2: in the city there's a class of black elites. They
Speaker 2: are wealthy. They're from the DC Maryland Virginia area, which
Speaker 2: obviously we call the DMV, and they're known as the
Speaker 2: First Families. Oh so there's a couple different ways that
Speaker 2: a person can become a member of the First Families,
Speaker 2: the black elite. And I'm going to tell you how
Speaker 2: one man did it. He is the father of the
Speaker 2: star of today's episode, and his name is Richard Francis.
Speaker 2: Richard was born enslaved in Virginia, a Southern gentleman never
Speaker 2: mixed his own drinks, so they would have enslaved black
Speaker 2: men do that for them. So this was one of
Speaker 2: Richard's jobs. He did it really well. He didn't have
Speaker 2: a choice. So when he was freed, eventually he went
Speaker 2: to work at a white owned tavern up the street
Speaker 2: from the White House. He rises from basically like a
Speaker 2: bar back to the most popular bartender at this tavern,
Speaker 2: it's called Hancock's Old Curiosity Shop.
Speaker 4: Ooh, I'm drinking in old fashioned and I just imagine
Speaker 4: the old fashions he would make me.
Speaker 2: Oh, they would be so good. And you're black, so
Speaker 2: he'd really hook him up. Well, you're a black woman
Speaker 2: and it's the Victorian era, so maybe he wouldn't, so
Speaker 2: he'd probably be like, why are you drinking, you hussy?
Speaker 2: Go home. He is a really really good bartender, and
Speaker 2: because of its location, it's really popular for politicians from
Speaker 2: across the country to come in and they all fall
Speaker 2: in love with his mint julips. This is his specialty.
Speaker 2: One of his patrons is a senator and he tells
Speaker 2: Richard that he wants to help him get a job
Speaker 2: running the private restaurant in the US Senate, and Richard's like,
Speaker 2: I would be very into that. So the Senator puts
Speaker 2: in a good word and Richard gets the job. He's
Speaker 2: not the first black man to hold that position, but
Speaker 2: it's still like a really big deal. So once he's there,
Speaker 2: he seems to be making good money. He takes his
Speaker 2: earnings and invest them in DC real estate brilliant and
Speaker 2: so then he makes more money and he can afford
Speaker 2: to now be a member of the First Families. So
Speaker 2: in order to be a member of the First Families,
Speaker 2: you need to have a combination of the following. This
Speaker 2: isn't an exhaustive list, but to start economic security, you
Speaker 2: need enough money to not have to worry about money,
Speaker 2: and you got to be real classy with it, meaning
Speaker 2: you need to own a beautifully furnished home. You need
Speaker 2: to dress well, you need to vacation in the right spots.
Speaker 2: Harper's Ferry, West, Virginia actually is super popular. Oh with them.
Speaker 2: Frederick Douglass and his family have a house out there.
Speaker 2: Richard is financially set and I don't know how you
Speaker 2: decorated his home or where he vacation, but he has money,
Speaker 2: so check that's one thing. You have to have a
Speaker 2: prestigious job running the private restaurant in the US Senate counts.
Speaker 2: So check. You need to go to college. I don't
Speaker 2: know Richard's educational background, but he's obviously very intelligent. But
Speaker 2: he did not go to college, I'm assuming, so no
Speaker 2: check for that. And you have to be from the DMV,
Speaker 2: which he is from.
Speaker 4: So check.
Speaker 2: Oh, they're strict.
Speaker 4: They are very serious about those rules of very serious.
Speaker 4: I would not be grandfathered in my fifteen years. It'd
Speaker 4: be like, girl, you are not from here.
Speaker 2: They would be like, Nope, you're out. Rich has made
Speaker 2: the three out of four, so that means him, his wife,
Speaker 2: their son, and two daughters are officially members of the
Speaker 2: first family. And so that brings us to the star
Speaker 2: of today's story. This is one of Richard's daughters, Miss
Speaker 2: Louise Marla Francis, whom everybody calls Lulu. Lulu is likely
Speaker 2: a fashionista, a little spunky and opinionated, likely educated. She
Speaker 2: would have been doing things like attending organizing meetings for
Speaker 2: women's suffrage at the city's first black Presbyterian church, the
Speaker 2: fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church. She's a woman described by The
Speaker 2: Washington Post at the time as the bell of Colored DC.
Speaker 2: So basically, she is our ideal rom com heroine. I
Speaker 2: wish I had a picture of her, but I do not.
Speaker 2: But let's cast her in our mind. Who do you
Speaker 2: think could play this person?
Speaker 4: Okay, it sounds like she's that girl and this person
Speaker 4: is not an actress.
Speaker 2: But I'm just.
Speaker 4: Imagining, like Gilded Age Lorie Harvey.
Speaker 2: That's so funny. I was thinking Lori Harvey.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like guilded age Lori Harvey. She's that girl, know
Speaker 4: the girl, et cetera. Just remember that you're the prize, always, always.
Speaker 2: Always, So once Lulu hits marrying age, inquiring minds would
Speaker 2: want to know who is it going to be? Who's
Speaker 2: she going to pick? Much like Lori Harvey at this time,
Speaker 2: she could have ended up with a young w btw
Speaker 2: boys they're in the same class, or maybe his mortal
Speaker 2: enemy Booker T. Washington. Let's say, your Lulu, what would
Speaker 2: your ideal husband at this time be? And for context,
Speaker 2: let me just tell you that her sister married a
Speaker 2: man with a good government job working at the pension office,
Speaker 2: so that means they're economically secure, socially elite. Her brother
Speaker 2: goes to Howard University and then the University of Michigan,
Speaker 2: where he graduates magna cum Lottie, and then he comes
Speaker 2: home to DC, marries an elite black woman at the
Speaker 2: fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church, becomes a doctor. All right, so
Speaker 2: you're Lulu, do I have to pick from the menu
Speaker 2: you mentioned? Or can I make my ideal? Man up?
Speaker 2: Make your eyes I deal eighteen eighty six.
Speaker 4: Man up Ooh you know what, I'm gonna go with
Speaker 4: a doctor. I'm gonna go with the doctor somebody that
Speaker 4: like all the black people go to. They're like, oh,
Speaker 4: he is that doctor. He is that guy, and I'll
Speaker 4: be like, yeah.
Speaker 2: That's my man. Okay. So Lulu starts dating one of
Speaker 2: her dad Richard's employees. Oh he's an aspiring young barber
Speaker 2: named John F. Cragwell. Can I have you read how
Speaker 2: the papers described mister Cragwell at that time. It's on
Speaker 2: page one.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, this is so rude. Craigwell is poor,
Speaker 4: having only his wages to depend on.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's your man. M hm.
Speaker 4: He's probably a nice guy. He might be rocking her
Speaker 4: world in one of several ways. But also, like, what
Speaker 4: else are we gonna I guess family money other than wages.
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, ideally family money or real estate investments. Ough.
Speaker 2: So rude, so rude. She likes that boy, she likes
Speaker 2: the okay, so okay, So this is the thing. Craigwell
Speaker 2: is a barber or a tonsillary artist, which is what
Speaker 2: they're called. At this time, black men were like finding
Speaker 2: that they actually really enjoy the experience of like going
Speaker 2: to a shop together, talking reckless, hanging out, also getting
Speaker 2: their hair done. So men are like, oh, okay, you
Speaker 2: guys like this. They start opening barbershops somewhat regularly. They
Speaker 2: begin popping up all over black communities and people are
Speaker 2: starting to be like, huh, this seems like it's a
Speaker 2: community hub. This seems like a potentially lucrative business. So
Speaker 2: being a black barber does have the potential to become
Speaker 2: like an important role in the black community and a
Speaker 2: profitable job. So Lulu's like maybe, She's like, you know,
Speaker 2: there's potential here. Dad like just let them cook, Like
Speaker 2: we don't know what he can do. So they keep
Speaker 2: dating and they do fall in love.
Speaker 3: Ah.
Speaker 2: So like, let's picture a romance montage. You're Lulu, You're
Speaker 2: with your Craigwell. Can you just like describe the world
Speaker 2: that you two would build together. What kind of dates
Speaker 2: would you want to go on with him in the
Speaker 2: eighteen eighties.
Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna tell you one thing. We
Speaker 4: are getting ice cream. We are going to an ice
Speaker 4: cream parlor.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: We are making eye contact at church and he is.
Speaker 2: Walking me out while I fan myself. He's courting me.
Speaker 4: He's sitting in my mother's parlor and we are drinking
Speaker 4: tea under the watchful eye of my father and siblings.
Speaker 4: I don't know, like, is there a promenade that we
Speaker 4: go to.
Speaker 2: Is there? I don't know what things are open.
Speaker 4: There's probably no zoo yet, probably no museums, but like
Speaker 4: whatever the version of that is, maybe he's outside my
Speaker 4: window at night and throwing rocks and we're writing each
Speaker 4: other letters. Maybe we even sneak a little kissy kiss
Speaker 4: and no one sees it.
Speaker 2: Being fast. This cross class kind of upstairs downstairs romance
Speaker 2: is not something that the first families would have been
Speaker 2: cool with. They're very snobby. So, like, just to put
Speaker 2: it in person effective, there's like two hundred and thirty
Speaker 2: thousand people in DC at this time, seventy five thousand
Speaker 2: or thirty two percent of them are black, and then
Speaker 2: four hundred of the seventy five thousand are members of
Speaker 2: the First Families. Okay, so it's giving literal talent. You
Speaker 2: took the words out of my mouth. That's what we're
Speaker 2: talking about here, is the talented Tent. So the town's
Speaker 2: ad fifth really, so the First Families, they're exclusive. If
Speaker 2: you're wealthy and black, but you're coming to DC from
Speaker 2: like Philly or New York or Detroit, they call you
Speaker 2: a foreigner or a stranger. And if you're poor or
Speaker 2: uneducated and black, they don't call you anything at all
Speaker 2: because they're living by this mandate of lift as we climb.
Speaker 2: The saying is everywhere. It's a huge part of the
Speaker 2: strategy that the race has come up with during a
Speaker 2: time when they literally had to move in next door
Speaker 2: to the people who used to enslave them. So it's
Speaker 2: like not a good time. So they think like, Okay,
Speaker 2: how are we going to change this? How are we
Speaker 2: going to make things better for ourselves? And WBTA boys
Speaker 2: and a lot of people come up with this idea
Speaker 2: of the Talented Tent and they're like, all right, we
Speaker 2: need y'all to go in there. Be as respectable and
Speaker 2: as elegant and educated as possible to put these white
Speaker 2: people at ease and show them that, like, see, I'm
Speaker 2: a human just like you see my hands. You can't
Speaker 2: really reason. You have to be like it's okay, it's okay,
Speaker 2: or you have to just fight.
Speaker 4: But it gives something that I would have thought to
Speaker 4: do when I was like in my twenties and felt
Speaker 4: like I had something to prove.
Speaker 2: And this is like they're the first generation of people.
Speaker 2: A lot of them were slaves and now they're free.
Speaker 2: White people are not okay with this. It's not like
Speaker 2: everybody's like, oh, yeah, you earned it, good for you.
Speaker 2: Like they're under duress at all times, so yes, you're
Speaker 2: having to like overcompensate, overprove, overdo all these things. And
Speaker 2: the idea is if we send y'all in there to
Speaker 2: do that, then white people will be put at ease
Speaker 2: and then go around to the back of the club,
Speaker 2: open the door, and then you're gonna let all the
Speaker 2: rest of us in. Here's what the strategy didn't for.
Speaker 2: It's hard to be in something but not of it.
Speaker 4: What did Audrey Lord say, master's house, master's tools, et cetera.
Speaker 2: Yes, So the talented tenth start to adopt the traditions
Speaker 2: and the customs of the elites they're meant to be imitating.
Speaker 2: And then they come back to the black community and
Speaker 2: are these enforcers at the politics of respectability and brutal
Speaker 2: critics of anybody that doesn't comply. Ooh, I wonder if
Speaker 2: that had any long term consequences. You know what, I
Speaker 2: keep thinking, I'm like, you create a strategy that'll really
Speaker 2: work for you, but then, uh oh, we just kept
Speaker 2: the same exact strategy for like hundreds of years. We
Speaker 2: didn't update it, you know, as like modern people. I
Speaker 2: think we're trying to update it now. But it's so
Speaker 2: hard for me to judge them ever, because I'm like,
Speaker 2: it did work. I am Hereah.
Speaker 4: It's also the thing of like, if you're barely one
Speaker 4: generation out of being enslaved, you know, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 4: gonna have some empathy.
Speaker 2: Back to Lulu. Lulu has a friend who she does
Speaker 2: seem to turn to for advice. The papers don't name her,
Speaker 2: but I'm imagining her to be like a level headed
Speaker 2: best friend, archetype like Dion and clueless. So I just
Speaker 2: want to call her Dion.
Speaker 4: Yeah, every rom com needs a best friend. Every rom
Speaker 4: com needs a best friend.
Speaker 2: Of course. All right, so I'm imagining this next part,
Speaker 2: but indulge me. Dion probably would have listened to Lulu
Speaker 2: go on and on and on about her great love
Speaker 2: and these walks along the promenade the ice cream, and
Speaker 2: she's like, girl, come on, now, do you really think
Speaker 2: that this is going to work out? He is a barber,
Speaker 2: and he is broke and we are royalty, like, what
Speaker 2: are you doing? And Lulu was probably like, Dean, I
Speaker 2: don't care about that. I don't care about upstairs, downstairs,
Speaker 2: this side of the track, that side of the track.
Speaker 2: I'm in love. And not only does she and Craig
Speaker 2: Well continue dating, they get engaged. Oooh, but someone finds
Speaker 2: Craig Well and they have a conversation with him. We
Speaker 2: don't know what they say, we don't know who it is.
Speaker 2: All we know is that afterwards he goes to Lulu
Speaker 2: and he says, I can't be with you anymore. Our
Speaker 2: engagement is over. And then he moves to Pennsylvania. Oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, she has to stab him. He broke her heart.
Speaker 2: Lulu is so sad. I'm picturing her like running upstairs
Speaker 2: and then flinging herself on the bed and crying and
Speaker 2: crying and crying, and Dion's trying to console her, but
Speaker 2: she's also maybe breathing a little sigh of relief along
Speaker 2: with Richard, Lulu's dad, and the rest of the first families,
Speaker 2: because Lulu was probably gonna end up like Lucinda Seton. Anyway,
Speaker 2: allow me to tell you the cautionary tale of Lucinda Seton. Oh,
Speaker 2: thirty years before Lulu's forbid love, the DMV had another
Speaker 2: it girl and her name was Lucinda Seton. When a
Speaker 2: famous German American painter came to d C looking to
Speaker 2: paint the portrait of the quintessential African American lady to
Speaker 2: be displayed across Europe. Do you know who he chose? Lucinda?
Speaker 2: See not.
Speaker 4: He's going to paint her like one of his German girls.
Speaker 2: So Lucinda's all this happening with her her like time
Speaker 2: to shine. It's eighteen fifty, so the Civil War is
Speaker 2: ten years off. Slavery is in full effect. It's the culture.
Speaker 2: But also we have a community of free black people,
Speaker 2: and that's what her family is. But that year, the
Speaker 2: census was taken and for the first time it recognized
Speaker 2: and counted as separate Africans and mixed race people, so
Speaker 2: half white, half black. So it was reported that there
Speaker 2: were a little over three million enslaved black people in
Speaker 2: America at that time, and two hundred and fifty thousand
Speaker 2: of them were mixed race. So these two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand people, for the most part, they're not born
Speaker 2: of you know, like loving concent sensual relationships. That's how
Speaker 2: we're not at all here, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So we're talking about horrible like mass rape from white
Speaker 2: and slavers of black women, and then black women are
Speaker 2: giving births these hundreds of thousands of people, and these
Speaker 2: are just the people that they counted. So the white
Speaker 2: men who fathered these children at that time, there was
Speaker 2: like a culture among some of them of claiming these
Speaker 2: children and either giving them better jobs on the plantation,
Speaker 2: like in the house. We know what this does to
Speaker 2: our community, But they're bringing their children inside all.
Speaker 4: Right, time for colorism to start.
Speaker 2: But they're like, you know, you are my son, you
Speaker 2: are my daughter. You work inside. It's disgusting and weird,
Speaker 2: but this is what they're doing. Or they're freeing them
Speaker 2: after a certain age, or sending them off to Europe
Speaker 2: to be educated, or even sometimes leaving them inheritances. Some
Speaker 2: of the elite families got their start this way, or
Speaker 2: they claimed to have gotten their start this way because
Speaker 2: it was seen as a respectable thing. It was like
Speaker 2: you were special to your dad. Obviously, we know this
Speaker 2: is how we came by being light skin, which is
Speaker 2: among the most important qualities a member of the black
Speaker 2: elite could ever possess. Horrible beginnings, what we did with
Speaker 2: that trauma is multiply it. But this is how this
Speaker 2: is part of their story too. So Lucinda Seton's family seemed,
Speaker 2: from what I can surmise, to have partially gotten their
Speaker 2: start this way. I mean they are very light. She's
Speaker 2: like part Indian, part white, part black. Okay, he's a
Speaker 2: red bone.
Speaker 4: As we say, she would be in the fenty three hundreds.
Speaker 2: She would be in the fenty three hundreds. Thank you
Speaker 2: for translating that from mono audience. So you know they're
Speaker 2: free through all this, you know, weirdness and grossness. But
Speaker 2: they also somebody opened up a grocery store and it
Speaker 2: would eventually become the largest grocery store chain in the DMV,
Speaker 2: and so that's how they came by a bunch of money.
Speaker 2: So Lucinda's doing great. She's living the dream until she
Speaker 2: marries a blacksmith. Smith is doing okay for him, so
Speaker 2: he's doing, you know, the best of it can. But
Speaker 2: he's also middle class, so now she is too. She
Speaker 2: clearly married for love because she has to move into
Speaker 2: a middle class neighborhood and a quaint little home on
Speaker 2: I Street in northwest d C. Which is like now, now,
Speaker 2: it's like girl, that's money, Yes, exactly. So she moves
Speaker 2: to I Street where the men go to work and
Speaker 2: the women raise kids and nobody comes by to paint
Speaker 2: their pictures. Oh no. Lucinda has six kids, five girls
Speaker 2: and a boy named William, and she seems to have
Speaker 2: been searching for a way to get back in to
Speaker 2: the first families that get back into the life she'd
Speaker 2: become accustomed. But they need to make some money. If
Speaker 2: Lucinda setons six kids get educated, they can get good jobs,
Speaker 2: make real money, and put their family back on the map.
Speaker 2: So all the kids are sent to school. William goes
Speaker 2: to the prestigious private elementary school in the basement the
Speaker 2: fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church. So now all Lucinda has to
Speaker 2: do is just wait. Unfortunately, in eighteen sixty three, tragedy strikes.
Speaker 2: Her husband is murdered during a robbery. Oh no, So
Speaker 2: now Lucinda is a widow with six kids to feed.
Speaker 2: I don't know if her family helped her out a bit.
Speaker 2: Maybe they did, but she does become a dressmaker, and
Speaker 2: she starts an ice cream shop to make ends meet.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, did Lulu go there with Craig.
Speaker 2: Well, they are going to cross paths, we'll see. But
Speaker 2: she has to pull her kids out of their schools
Speaker 2: to help earn money for their survival. Some of the
Speaker 2: members of the First Families probably still stop by her
Speaker 2: little house on Ice Street and wish her well, but
Speaker 2: it's clear to everyone that Lucinda is now even further
Speaker 2: away from being one of them than she was before.
Speaker 2: She'd married into a precarious financial situation, and now she
Speaker 2: was a poor with no hope of ever advancing. So
Speaker 2: now we're back. We're back with Lulu and Dion. In
Speaker 2: the eighteen eighties, we left Lulu. She's crying in her bedroom,
Speaker 2: probably making it up, but you know, she's sobbing. Dion
Speaker 2: is there. She's rubbing her head. She's saying, don't worry
Speaker 2: about Craigwell. All men are dogs. It's gonna be okay.
Speaker 2: Then I picture Lulu's father, Richard, poking his head in
Speaker 2: the room to check on his daughter Lulu. She doesn't
Speaker 2: notice him because she's sobbing, but Dion looks up. The
Speaker 2: two exchange of knowing Glands. What was that? Look? Cut
Speaker 2: to Lucinda's house. Lucinda sne is still in DC, in
Speaker 2: that little house on I Street, and she would have
Speaker 2: likely been watching the Lulu Craigwell affair with a lot
Speaker 2: of interest, maybe because the story mirrored her own, or
Speaker 2: maybe because she had made it her and her six
Speaker 2: kids business to know exactly actly what the First Families
Speaker 2: were getting into and to tell everybody.
Speaker 4: Oh, that is nasty, Lucinda, don't be nasty.
Speaker 2: They may have counted her out, but they shouldn't have,
Speaker 2: because Lucinda has a son named William Chase, and he's
Speaker 2: all grown up now and she's taught him everything she knows.
Speaker 2: William and Lucinda are coming for the First Families, and sadly,
Speaker 2: Lulu will find herself caught in the crossfire. Oh my god.
Speaker 4: But you know what, I watch a lot of housewives,
Speaker 4: so I do understand when you get iced out, Like
Speaker 4: the alternative is like time to be a gossip monger
Speaker 4: and start some mess coming up.
Speaker 3: Lucinda starts a beehive and Lulu prepares to become a bride.
Speaker 3: We now return to our ancestors were messy.
Speaker 2: Back to Lulu. She's single now, but then she meets
Speaker 2: a man. His name is mister Sneed. Mister who mister
Speaker 2: snead s n e ed.
Speaker 4: Okay, so she's back outside. She's back outside, all right,
Speaker 4: she got her toes. She doesn't have her toes out.
Speaker 4: It's the Gilded day.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no whatever.
Speaker 4: That version is like, hey girl, we've got a new man.
Speaker 4: Forget that old one. We're moving on.
Speaker 2: Mister Sneed is a waiter at the Arlington Hotel, which
Speaker 2: is one of America's most opulent hotels. And the first
Speaker 2: families would have been like, this is a great look.
Speaker 2: The papers call him swell h A waiter's a great look. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because it's had a really really really fancy hotel, okay,
Speaker 2: and because at this time to put on a uniform
Speaker 2: and work in a hotel like work for dignitaries and
Speaker 2: all these things. This is really really important to them. Okay,
Speaker 2: So Lulu and Sneed begin a courtship. Lulu and Sneed
Speaker 2: get engaged. Lulu's dad, Richard, agrees to give them a
Speaker 2: wedding present, which is a uh love that mm hmmm,
Speaker 2: we love a house's gift. That's amazing. Lulu and her
Speaker 2: parents and maybe mister Sneed draft an invite list, and
Speaker 2: although I couldn't find it, I could guess who would
Speaker 2: be on it. All the first families, the famed suffragette
Speaker 2: Mary Church Terrell and the Terrells love Mary Church Terrell, Langston,
Speaker 2: Hughes's great uncle John Mercer Langston and the Langstons would
Speaker 2: of course be there. Obviously, they have to invite the
Speaker 2: founder of the fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church, John F. Cook,
Speaker 2: and the Cooks, the McKinley's, the Cardozos, the grim Keys.
Speaker 2: Everybody's gonna be there, as in Cardozo High School. Cardozo's right,
Speaker 2: I know, it's wild. Wow. I was like, all these
Speaker 2: last names come from this, what I know?
Speaker 4: I saw I heard a seat and I was like,
Speaker 4: wait a minute, I know that street and the school.
Speaker 2: So then this question arises between the couple. I'm guessing
Speaker 2: Lulu is the one that asked this question. She says,
Speaker 2: mister Snead, should we invite mister Craigwell to our wedding?
Speaker 2: Would you ever invite an ex to your wedding? Okay?
Speaker 2: And this is gonna sound messy.
Speaker 4: If y'all are cool and your current partner does not
Speaker 4: know the extent of your friendship with this person, yes,
Speaker 4: but if it is well known, girl, he does not
Speaker 4: need to be there. No, stop being messy.
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, Lulu's parents send out the invitations and the
Speaker 2: household prepares for a royal wedding two people who most
Speaker 2: certainly would not have received an invite from the Francis
Speaker 2: family and would have been in their feelings about it.
Speaker 2: For Lucinda Seaton and her now grown son, William Chase. So,
Speaker 2: if you'll recall, she'd had to pull him out of
Speaker 2: school when he was nine to help support the family,
Speaker 2: and he started selling newspapers and that's how you got
Speaker 2: to know a lot of the editors and the newsrooms
Speaker 2: and the reporters in Black DC. He grows up, he
Speaker 2: goes to Howard Law school who passes the bar. He
Speaker 2: becomes a lawyer, and he will continues reporting and working
Speaker 2: in various newsrooms. And he lives at home on I
Speaker 2: Street with his mom and his sisters. They're all very close.
Speaker 2: William has got this flare for the dramatic. He has
Speaker 2: dreams of becoming a renowned actor, and he actually ends
Speaker 2: up falling in love with and marrying another actor, and
Speaker 2: the two of them are in little plays together and stuff.
Speaker 2: It's very cute. Mainly though, his time is spent lawyering, reporting,
Speaker 2: and jockeying for political appointments. Because there's another way that
Speaker 2: a person can become a member of the black elite,
Speaker 2: and that is by doing the absolute most. If he
Speaker 2: can become a combination lawyer, reporter, and politician, he will
Speaker 2: be economically secure, have the most prestigious jobs anyone can have,
Speaker 2: be lifting as he climbs in matters of law, news
Speaker 2: and politics.
Speaker 4: Okay, being a politician and a journalist at the same
Speaker 4: time gives me pause, but I do respect the hustle.
Speaker 2: It's a wild combo, But like, how do you go
Speaker 2: on both these things?
Speaker 4: Sir?
Speaker 2: But okay, totally fine, no questions. We're all on board.
Speaker 2: No notes. But the problem was when it came to
Speaker 2: the politics. He never seemed to get the political appointments
Speaker 2: that he went after, and when he was rejected, he
Speaker 2: did not take it and stride. He would go into
Speaker 2: the office of whatever newspaper he was working for at
Speaker 2: the time, he would sit down at his typewriter and
Speaker 2: he would go absolutely insane on everyone he held responsible
Speaker 2: for him not getting the jobs he thought he deserved.
Speaker 2: So like one time, Frederick Douglass was like, I will
Speaker 2: hook you up, and he said great or great great,
Speaker 2: and then Frederick Douglas is like, no, no, I can't.
Speaker 2: He publishes all this that I hate you. I hate
Speaker 2: the way that you dress, I hate the way that
Speaker 2: you I hate your hair, like just Patty.
Speaker 4: Well, okay, but if you're going scorched or like that,
Speaker 4: that's why you're not a politician, like a not insignificant
Speaker 4: amount of having a career is being personal and getting
Speaker 4: people to like you. And if you go scorched earth
Speaker 4: when you get a no, you're gonna keep getting those right.
Speaker 2: But he doesn't care. People describe him as handsome, a climber,
Speaker 2: and very very combative.
Speaker 4: Oh he was handsome. I see why he's like that.
Speaker 2: Like, oh wait, that changes everything. Okay, got it clear,
Speaker 2: That's why he's acts like that. So finally William does
Speaker 2: secure one of the jobs he's been going after. He's
Speaker 2: named the editor of The Washington b a brand new
Speaker 2: weekly paper serving the black citizens of DC whose motto
Speaker 2: was Stings for our enemies, honey for our friends. Oh
Speaker 2: oh oh. It's estimated that at this time there are
Speaker 2: like twelve thousand newspapers serving segregated black communities across America,
Speaker 2: but when you get to a major city like DC,
Speaker 2: there's usually a few, so the competition is really fierce
Speaker 2: and you need to do something to stand out. So
Speaker 2: William is like, what's up, sisters, what's up my wife?
Speaker 2: You all are now going to be on stay at
Speaker 2: the Washington B And he makes all of them like
Speaker 2: reporters and cultural critics in addition to some outside people.
Speaker 2: And then they set up offices at Lucinda's house on
Speaker 2: I Street. There they turned the Bee into appointment reading.
Speaker 4: So was it like the shade Room? Essentially this was
Speaker 4: their shade room.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so it was. They primarily cover news related
Speaker 2: to the fight for civil rights and social justice. They're
Speaker 2: like covering news that all the white papers are covering,
Speaker 2: but without all the racism and with black people in it.
Speaker 2: That's like the idea mm hmm. But they also make
Speaker 2: sure from time to time to just let William get
Speaker 2: behind his typewriter and do his thing. He'll be like,
Speaker 2: what's up, White leaders? I am so sick and tired
Speaker 2: of all the ways that you do not point black
Speaker 2: people to position the power. You are so racist and
Speaker 2: you're so hypocritical. And then he'll be like, what's up,
Speaker 2: Black leaders? Nothing that you're doing is going to make
Speaker 2: a difference in the black community because you are too
Speaker 2: intellectual and you're too theoretical. And then this is his favorite,
Speaker 2: He's like, what's up, first, families, you think you're so
Speaker 2: much better than us, You think I don't know what's
Speaker 2: going on behind closed doors. A lot of his readers,
Speaker 2: who The Bee refers to as the household, that's what
Speaker 2: they call black DC.
Speaker 4: He's like, okay, exactly, but it's giving the shape room exactly.
Speaker 2: It's good branding. It's good branding. You got a brand
Speaker 2: your audience. The household feels looked down upon by the
Speaker 2: black elites because they're working class or they're poor, or
Speaker 2: their dark skin, or they couldn't go to college, and
Speaker 2: so behind their back, the household calls the first families
Speaker 2: the fust families, the what families fust f ust, which
Speaker 2: is slang for musty.
Speaker 4: Oh nothing, musty, jesus. Okay, I think being called musty
Speaker 4: is the worst thing that can happen to you.
Speaker 2: Do you know? I agree, because like musty isn't just stinky.
Speaker 4: Musty is like you're funky and you've been flunky for
Speaker 4: a minute.
Speaker 2: Can I have you read on page two what the
Speaker 2: be said about them?
Speaker 4: Yes, let me see who. They wouldn't be caught dead
Speaker 4: with an ordinary Negro, and they foolishly expect to become
Speaker 4: absorbed by the white race.
Speaker 2: Ooh, drag them? No, okay, but here's the thing. You're Lulu,
Speaker 2: so you're the fusty one. How would you feel reading this? Okay?
Speaker 4: And this is what? Okay, this makes me think. It's
Speaker 4: that thing of hey, we're all black people, et cetera,
Speaker 4: et cetera. But and I admit sometimes when I see
Speaker 4: tweets about this where people complaining about quote unquote black
Speaker 4: elite or like black college educated people, there's something in
Speaker 4: you that inherently gets defensive, even though you'll have these
Speaker 4: conversations about men, about white supremacy, and you say, hey,
Speaker 4: you gotta take a hard look at XYZ. But when
Speaker 4: the finger points to you, it admittedly does not feel good.
Speaker 2: And I do feel like people start bringing out their
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, no, their cards where it's like, well,
Speaker 2: my dad, my pay I'm first generation college graduate, Like
Speaker 2: I don't. Don't put me with them, like my family
Speaker 2: grew up with no money. You just want to start
Speaker 2: you do these things.
Speaker 4: And it takes a lot of work to check that
Speaker 4: and say, okay, only hit dogs holler if I'm hollering,
Speaker 4: what am I doing? What's happening? And that takes a
Speaker 4: lot of maturity and a lot of thought.
Speaker 2: So back to William. He is assaulted twice and sued
Speaker 2: five times for libel over his articles. He's like, I
Speaker 2: don't care. There's this section of the paper called the
Speaker 2: Clara and Louise column. Every week the paper publishes a
Speaker 2: letter from an anonymous Clara to an anonymous Luis or
Speaker 2: vice versa. And in the letters, among other things, they
Speaker 2: share the tor details about the ups and the downs
Speaker 2: and the scandals of the first families, Okay, lady whistledown.
Speaker 2: The lady whistled down to a t and the first
Speaker 2: families hate this column. Their complaints about it reached such
Speaker 2: a fever pitch that William, who is normally like don't care,
Speaker 2: don't care, don't care, has to release a statement being like, sorry,
Speaker 2: I don't know who Clara and Louise are. I understand
Speaker 2: your pain. However, I am never going to stop. I'm
Speaker 2: never going to back down. Every week, tune in because
Speaker 2: I'm going to be publishing all of their insights into
Speaker 2: your scandals and your hypocrisies. On November twenty seventh, eighteen
Speaker 2: eighty six, just five days before Lulu and Sneed's wedding,
Speaker 2: the Washington be publishes a bombshell in their weekly gossip column, which,
Speaker 2: as you'll recall, is written in the form of letters
Speaker 2: between an anonymous Clara and an anonymous Louise. I have
Speaker 2: compiled a medley of the letters that Clara and Louise
Speaker 2: wrote to each other over the next two weeks about
Speaker 2: the scandal, which I would love for us to read
Speaker 2: right now, if you would not mind. I think I'm
Speaker 2: playing Louise, if you will play Clara dear Clara, I
Speaker 2: hardly know how to begin or what relate first. But
Speaker 2: the most sensational thing that has ever happened in our
Speaker 2: society is the elopement of missus Lulu Francis girl. Not
Speaker 2: you Elope, Cho.
Speaker 4: Dear Louise, your letter to the household last week was
Speaker 4: read with a great deal of interest. I never was
Speaker 4: made more surprised in my life.
Speaker 2: It will be remembered that mister Craigwell had been going
Speaker 2: with Miss Francis for a number of years, and it
Speaker 2: was understood that the engagement between them had been canceled.
Speaker 4: Mister Craigwell was persuaded to break the engagement by a
Speaker 4: lady connected with the Francis family.
Speaker 2: Oh did I think nasty work? Nasty work.
Speaker 4: Then Miss Francis went to Harrisburg on a visit, and
Speaker 4: mister Craigwell did not greet her with any respect, nor
Speaker 4: did he.
Speaker 2: Write to her for over a year.
Speaker 4: Still, she said that he was the only man she
Speaker 4: ever loved, and if she married an it would be
Speaker 4: for spite. The lady was told by a friend not
Speaker 4: to marry for spite. Okay, Lulu, Lulu, while you let
Speaker 4: why you let men play let's just continue because I
Speaker 4: have I have a lot of thoughts. Let's continue.
Speaker 2: Mister Snead expressed tender feelings for the lady. He gave
Speaker 2: her his heart, and they were engaged, and he went
Speaker 2: to the expense of making their wedding a brilliant affair.
Speaker 4: The lady asked her friend would be wise to give
Speaker 4: mister Craigwell an invite to her marriage. She was told now,
Speaker 4: Mister Craigwell, on the reception of an invitation from Miss
Speaker 4: Francis and mister Sneed, announcing their marriage, immediately left Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 4: and came to d C. Once in the city, mister
Speaker 4: Craigwell remarked to his friend that he would never leave
Speaker 4: d C without Miss Lulufrancis, but, finding that he could
Speaker 4: not persuade her parents to bless his reunion with Miss Francis,
Speaker 4: he returned to Harrisburg. Mister Craigwell could not rest in Harrisburg,
Speaker 4: so he returned again to d C and inaugurated another scheme.
Speaker 4: This time, he solicited the services of the sister of
Speaker 4: Miss Lulu. While out walking with mister Sneed, Miss Lulu
Speaker 4: called at her sister's and told mister Sneed to wait
Speaker 4: outside as she wanted to see her sister about address.
Speaker 4: Mister Craigwell was there and he pleaded with her to
Speaker 4: become his wife.
Speaker 2: Mister Craigwell told Miss Francis that he always loved her
Speaker 2: and that it was hard to see his first love
Speaker 2: married to another man who would make her life miserable.
Speaker 2: At this juncture, Miss Francis said, but my invitations are
Speaker 2: out for my marriage to mister Sneed. Oh I could
Speaker 2: fix that, said mister Craigwell. After deciding what steps were
Speaker 2: best to pursue. It said that Miss Francis, mister Craigwell,
Speaker 2: her sister, and her brother in law traveled to the
Speaker 2: residence of Reverend Doctor Sunderland, who married President Grover Cleveland.
Speaker 4: In the afternoon of Wednesday, November second, The marriage license
Speaker 4: was procured and they were married. Doctor Sunderland said that
Speaker 4: he thought the affair a romance and that it did
Speaker 4: not excite his suspicions. It was settled, and poor mister
Speaker 4: Sneed was made a victim of despair.
Speaker 2: The household is started and society is up in arms
Speaker 2: to think that Miss Francis would be guilty of such
Speaker 2: an act.
Speaker 4: Mister and Missus Francis are heartbroken to think that their
Speaker 4: daughter would treat them so.
Speaker 2: She has been reared a lady and looked upon and
Speaker 2: respected as such. Her parents consist of the best elements
Speaker 2: of our society. This is Sneed's last song. Where has
Speaker 2: my Lulugan? Is a song I shall sing.
Speaker 4: The chestnut bells are ringing, and the boys are singing. Sneed, Sneed, Sneed,
Speaker 4: Oh Sneed, Where has thy Lulugan? I have been told
Speaker 4: that mister Sneed has received a just retribution. It's said
Speaker 4: that he had many sympathizing friends who regretted that he
Speaker 4: was disappointed, and many young ladies who were pleased.
Speaker 2: I saw mister Sneed at the fraternals last Wednesday evening,
Speaker 2: and he approached Major Fleetwood and said, Major, I carried
Speaker 2: you an invitation to my wedding, but I suppose that
Speaker 2: you have heard that my intended has gone off with another.
Speaker 2: Then Major laughed and said, yes, Snead, I don't know
Speaker 2: whether to congratulate you or to extend my condolences. Mister Sneed,
Speaker 2: in reply, said that he would like to have his
Speaker 2: congratulations yours lovingly, yours truly Louise Clara. All right, girl,
Speaker 2: go ahead, so much to say. I have so much
Speaker 2: to say, and it really is giving. Lori Harvey, I'm
Speaker 2: glad that's who we live with. I feel like mister
Speaker 2: Sneed is Michael B.
Speaker 4: Jordan, Oh, mister Sneed is, Oh, mister Steed is Michael B. Jordan,
Speaker 4: which you know, Michael, call me. I'm around. I have
Speaker 4: so many thoughts because, on one hand, it's better to
Speaker 4: end a marriage before it's miserable. She clearly was not
Speaker 4: into it. He was, although you know at the end
Speaker 4: he's like it was. He feels very draky. It's very
Speaker 4: like her loss. And I mean that derogatory that being said,
Speaker 4: don't spend the block like no, if that man left once,
Speaker 4: he'll leave again. And when he does it again, you're
Speaker 4: gonna feel so stupid. I just like, oh, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: get you back, baby, like I guess. But she let
Speaker 4: that man spend the block and here we are, what
Speaker 4: a scandal. I think it would have been better if
Speaker 4: she had said, you know, I'm not feeling it, call
Speaker 4: it off, maybe wait some time, lay low a little bit,
Speaker 4: but to run off and get married. Also, her sister
Speaker 4: was in Cahoots. We can't forget this. It's not all Lulu.
Speaker 4: Her sister was in Cahut.
Speaker 2: So was it her mom who was all like, don't
Speaker 2: marry that girl? No, they said it was a friend.
Speaker 2: So that's why I feel like Diana. Okay, So this
Speaker 2: is my conspiracy theory that I had cooked up in
Speaker 2: my head based on no evidence. I feel like Richard,
Speaker 2: Lulu's dad went to Dion, Lulu's best friend, and he
Speaker 2: was like, Dion, my daughter cannot marry that broke barber.
Speaker 2: I need you to go to him and tell him
Speaker 2: that if he really cares for Lulu, the best thing
Speaker 2: he can do for her is to leave her. And
Speaker 2: so then Dion like went to him. She said that
Speaker 2: Lulu is like, oh my god, he left me. I
Speaker 2: want to be with him. And maybe Richard gave him
Speaker 2: some money, because you know that's how rich people do it.
Speaker 2: That is true. So then mister Craigwell leaves town. Lulu
Speaker 2: is like, oh my god, like, I can't live without him.
Speaker 2: Dion's like, you'll be fine. Lulu's like, should I invite
Speaker 2: him to my wedding? Dion is like, girl, no, then
Speaker 2: boom boom boom, He's back in her life. They're married.
Speaker 4: Also, it's this thing of and this is something my
Speaker 4: mom always said, And of course there are exceptions to
Speaker 4: this rule, but it's a thing of if your child
Speaker 4: is dating someone you don't like, don't make a fuss
Speaker 4: because that will only drive them into their arms.
Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, and that's exactly what they did.
Speaker 3: You came for the mess Now stay for the rest
Speaker 3: When our Ancestors were Messy continues, and now for the
Speaker 3: thrilling conclusion of this week's installment of Our Ancestors were Messy.
Speaker 2: After the elopement, it's reported that Craigwell went to see
Speaker 2: about making arrangements for him and Lulu to get to Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: and Lulu and her sister went home to face their parents. Allegedly,
Speaker 2: mister Sneed is also there. Me, I would just fake
Speaker 2: my own desk. Yeah, how would your parents react to
Speaker 2: you showing up at the door being like okay, Mary, Okay.
Speaker 4: The thing is I'm an only child, So the amount
Speaker 4: of conniption that would be.
Speaker 2: Had, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you would never survive it. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: there's no record of what went down at the Francis
Speaker 2: home during this meeting, but at the end, mister Sneaed
Speaker 2: is sent away and that's the last we ever hear
Speaker 2: of them. Now, Richard Francis Lulu's dad, and his wife,
Speaker 2: Lula's mom. They are humiliated in front of all the
Speaker 2: first families, the household, and potentially hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 2: recorded black newspaper readers across the nation, because I found
Speaker 2: articles about this elopement and papers in New York, in
Speaker 2: Alabama and Missouri, and a lot of them were pulling
Speaker 2: their reporting from the Beast, So this is bad. Also,
Speaker 2: since Lulu was on the radar of the Washington Post,
Speaker 2: White DC may have known about all of this too,
Speaker 2: and so Richard may have had to deal with his
Speaker 2: coworkers and clients whispering about this in the US Senate
Speaker 2: as well as everywhere that he went in DC. Not
Speaker 2: long after the scandal, in eighteen eighty eight, Richard passes
Speaker 2: away suddenly, all his stress. His funerals held at the
Speaker 2: fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church. Today, bartenders still remember and revere
Speaker 2: Richard for his incredible mint Julips. When I was doing
Speaker 2: the research for this episode, I kept getting linked to
Speaker 2: all these magazines and all these articles about like famous
Speaker 2: black bartenders and recipes, famous recipes created by black bartenders,
Speaker 2: and there was Richards. It's the Dick Francis Special for
Speaker 2: a mint Julip, and I will link the recipe in
Speaker 2: the show notes. I never did find another article after
Speaker 2: the scandal that mentioned Richard and Lulu together, so I
Speaker 2: don't know what their father daughter relationship was after that
Speaker 2: or at the time that he passed away. But in
Speaker 2: the bios of his that I came across, and in
Speaker 2: his obituary, he's listed as having left behind a wife
Speaker 2: and one son, and that's it day, So both the
Speaker 2: daughters got got maybe both the daughters. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Dang dang heard Nanny strict. I know Washington Be continues
Speaker 2: to grow in readership and prestige post elopement scandal, and
Speaker 2: they gain a reputation across DC and in history as
Speaker 2: a paper that fought fearlessly for civil rights and social justice,
Speaker 2: in addition to the Clara Luis gospel column. But that's
Speaker 2: less so in the history books. That's in the back.
Speaker 2: And eighteen eighty three, Lucinda passes away with the Washington
Speaker 2: Be still running from her home on Eye Street, which
Speaker 2: she managed to hold on too, against all odds and
Speaker 2: then pass on to her children. So shout out to Lucinda.
Speaker 2: I know that's right. William keeps the paper going right
Speaker 2: up until his death in nineteen twenty one, which made
Speaker 2: it at that time one of the longest running black
Speaker 2: newspapers in America. The DC First Family, you know, it's
Speaker 2: hard to track down exactly what happened to them or
Speaker 2: all their wealth. Obviously, DC people will recognize some of
Speaker 2: the names seton McKinley, but unfortunately those places are named
Speaker 2: after the enslavers that the First Family shared names with,
Speaker 2: not the First Families themselves. Oh yeah, although I will
Speaker 2: say Cardozo is named after Francis Cardozo, who was a
Speaker 2: famous Black clergyman and politician. So we got that one.
Speaker 2: But here's what we do know. Charles County in PG County, Maryland,
Speaker 2: right outside of DC, are the richest majority black counties
Speaker 2: in the nation, and they have been for a very
Speaker 2: long time. And I don't know why these places in
Speaker 2: Maryland became bastions of black wealth, but it does seem
Speaker 2: like in some way the legacy of the First Families
Speaker 2: in DC still lives on. But I wish someone would
Speaker 2: look into this because I would love to know, like,
Speaker 2: why do they congregate there?
Speaker 4: What is it about pretty Girl County that we can't
Speaker 4: stay away from?
Speaker 2: Uh? Uh uh. As for our newlyweds, mister and missus Craigwell,
Speaker 2: they spend a little bit of time out in Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: and then right before the turn of the century they
Speaker 2: moved to Seattle, Washington, and once they get there, they
Speaker 2: make their way into black history. Now I can only
Speaker 2: find a record of what mister Craigwell did because of
Speaker 2: the times. But I know, I believe and feel that
Speaker 2: I know that Lulu was there right beside him, holding
Speaker 2: him down. Can I have you read the summary of
Speaker 2: mister Creigwell's life, which was written up for his obituary
Speaker 2: and published in Seattle's black newspaper, The Northwest Enterprise.
Speaker 4: Okay, uh Northwest. Mister John Fields Craigwell, pioneer resident of
Speaker 4: Seattle and veteran barber, died Monday morning from a heart ailment.
Speaker 4: Mister Craigwell was born in Virginia in eighteen sixty two.
Speaker 4: After graduation from high school, young Craigwell moved to Pennsylvania,
Speaker 4: but later returned to Washington, where he engaged.
Speaker 2: In the barber business.
Speaker 4: In eighteen eighty five, mister Craigwell was married to Miss
Speaker 4: Louise Francis, by the same minister that Mary Grover Cleveland.
Speaker 4: They moved to Seattle in eighteen ninety, where the young
Speaker 4: barber again started his business. His shop was a gathering
Speaker 4: place for business leaders during and after the days of
Speaker 4: the Alaska gold Rush. During his fifty six years as
Speaker 4: a barber, he shaved many notables, including Presidents Theodore Roosevelt
Speaker 4: and William McKinley, John jacobast Alexander Graham Bell, and many others.
Speaker 4: Besides his business, mister Craigwell was interested in several civic affairs.
Speaker 4: He used to take an active part in politics, and
Speaker 4: at the time of his death he held one of
Speaker 4: the highest offices in the Presbyterian Church.
Speaker 2: Surviving are his widow.
Speaker 4: Missus Louise Craigwell, two daughters, three grandchildren, and one great grandchild.
Speaker 4: On November twenty fourth, nineteen thirty five, mister and Missus
Speaker 4: Craigwell celebrated their fiftieth wedding anniversary, which hundreds of Seattle's
Speaker 4: citizens attended.
Speaker 2: Oh thank got a happy ending. Good for you girl.
Speaker 4: Okay, you could spend the block this one time, but
Speaker 4: never do it again.
Speaker 2: Craigwell passes away in nineteen thirty seven and Lulu passes
Speaker 2: away in nineteen forty two. And as much as I
Speaker 2: would love to tell you that's the end, I want
Speaker 2: you to have this happy ending, there is one last part.
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh, why are they like this? See, don't
Speaker 2: spend the block. I told you, I told you, don't
Speaker 2: do it. Do not text that man. Yes, Lulu and
Speaker 2: Craigwell were among Seattle's earliest black citizens and members of
Speaker 2: Seattle's black elite. And yeah, Craigwell does go on to
Speaker 2: become a barber and the city's most successful black entrepreneur.
Speaker 2: He has a staff of eleven toncilary artists in fashionable
Speaker 2: downtown barber shops. But about those shops, So white people
Speaker 2: really liked to be waited on by black people immediately
Speaker 2: following the end of slavery, but they didn't want other
Speaker 2: black people around also being served. So some barbers would
Speaker 2: guarantee their all white clients, tell that the staff would
Speaker 2: be all black, but that they wouldn't serve any black people.
Speaker 2: And members of Seattle's black press accused Craigwell of this practice,
Speaker 2: and they call him a segregationist barber. It's very hard
Speaker 2: to be in it but not of it. Of course,
Speaker 2: there's so much more that happened, but for now, that
Speaker 2: is the story of the scandalous cross class romance of
Speaker 2: Miss Lulu Francis.
Speaker 4: Wow, buh gilded age, Lori Harvey, you took me through
Speaker 4: a lot, just.
Speaker 2: Now a lot. Do you think it's possible to be
Speaker 2: in it but not of it, to be operating in
Speaker 2: these spaces of power but not adopting their practices and
Speaker 2: their ways of thinking and treating people.
Speaker 4: Ooh, this is a question that I think about a lot,
Speaker 4: just living my own life and living in DC. I
Speaker 4: would like to think that you can be around and
Speaker 4: not be dragged down by the grips and allure of power,
Speaker 4: but I know that as humans we don't do that.
Speaker 4: It's almost like the Ring and Lord of the Ring
Speaker 4: is like you're around it and the pool becomes so
Speaker 4: strong that you can't say no, and then like what
Speaker 4: do you become?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: I would like to think that someone is strong enough
Speaker 4: to do it, but I don't know if that person exists.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's real. How are you feeling about the tactic
Speaker 2: uplift as we climb as a strategy for eighteen eighty six,
Speaker 2: what do we gain? What do we lose?
Speaker 4: Okay, huh, Honestly, there are things about There are things
Speaker 4: about it that worked at the time, so I can't
Speaker 4: begrudge them that. And I guess like the other option
Speaker 4: would have led to even more death and destruction for
Speaker 4: black people. So I get the route that they took,
Speaker 4: and you know, talk about Monday morning quarterbacking. But you
Speaker 4: know what if we say, Okay, we're just going to
Speaker 4: do this for two years and then like we have
Speaker 4: to be real people after this, you know, we can't
Speaker 4: be doing this in twenty twenty four, Like they here's
Speaker 4: a plan where this strategy is sunseted by twenty twenty four.
Speaker 2: What would what would you have us do?
Speaker 4: Probably disengage completely, just stop caring, like just being like
Speaker 4: nothing is going to work. If people want to be racist,
Speaker 4: they're just gonna do it, and they will find any
Speaker 4: and every reason to do it. At this point, who
Speaker 4: cares about the white gays? What are we up to?
Speaker 2: That is the strategy I we deploy. Now, what do
Speaker 2: you think about looking at black history starting from the
Speaker 2: messy beginnings? Because Craig Weell is like in Seattle, that
Speaker 2: name is a big deal. He's like seen as a
Speaker 2: big pioneer and as a person who's done this incredible thing.
Speaker 2: And you start the story from the time that he
Speaker 2: got to Seattle, and then you know, you kind of
Speaker 2: talk about all the hard work he did, everything he overcame,
Speaker 2: his incredible resilience in business acumen, and he's you know,
Speaker 2: an amazing black capitalist. But we don't talk, you know
Speaker 2: about the southern part. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I kind of like the mess because it's also a
Speaker 4: reminder that something my mom would say to me over
Speaker 4: and over again is there's nothing new on under the sun.
Speaker 4: And I would think, mmm, I don't think that's true.
Speaker 4: But this makes me realize, no, there really is nothing
Speaker 4: new under the sun. And I think we would all
Speaker 4: give ourselves a lot more grace if we looked at
Speaker 4: our ancestors as people and knew that they could get
Speaker 4: messy too, sometimes even messier.
Speaker 2: Because this is wild. I'm like, five days before your wedding,
Speaker 2: like that is wild. Like she loved that man down