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Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this

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Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls.

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Speaker 2: On the Internet.

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Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, So I wanted to share a new podcast

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Speaker 1: with you all that I cannot get enough of, called

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Speaker 1: Our Ancestors Were Messy by Coco Hill Productions. All about

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Speaker 1: the messy, complicated, petty stories from historical figures that they

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Speaker 1: probably did not cover in school. It is something that

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Speaker 1: has been bringing me a ton of joy lately, so

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Speaker 1: I wanted to share it with you all too, So

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Speaker 1: check it out and don't forget to subscribe.

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Speaker 3: The Secret Adventures of Black People presents Our Ancestors were Messy.

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Speaker 4: On the Craig Well is poor, having only his wages

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Speaker 4: to depend on.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, today, a forbidden romance threatens the future

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Speaker 3: of one of DC's most elite families.

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Speaker 2: And Lulu was probably like, I don't care about this

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Speaker 2: side of the track. That side of the track, I'm

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Speaker 2: in love.

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Speaker 3: And provides podder for two of DC's busiest gossip columnists.

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Speaker 4: Dear Louise, your letter to the household last week was

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Speaker 4: read with a great deal of interest.

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Speaker 3: This episode stops Junkoline Hill, host of the podcast explain

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Speaker 3: it to me for Box Black Alive and your host

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Speaker 3: Nicole Hill, Oh diadd I think it's dad. This is

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Speaker 3: our Ancestors Were Messy, a podcast about our ancestors and

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Speaker 3: all their drama.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Where did you grow up?

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Speaker 4: So? I bounced around Kansas and Missouri for a good

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Speaker 4: chunk of my childhood. But I feel like when people

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Speaker 4: ask where you're from, they're asking where did you graduate

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Speaker 4: from high school? And the answer to that question is Albuquerque,

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Speaker 4: New Mexico.

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Speaker 2: Albuquerque, New Mexico, which I mean, I love it there,

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Speaker 2: but wow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Like the number one thing people say is like,

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Speaker 4: oh they got black people there? In the answer snow

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Speaker 4: and that's why I am not there.

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Speaker 2: So where are you now? So I'm in DC now.

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Speaker 4: I moved out here to go to Howard like most

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Speaker 4: Howard grads. That's probably the longest I've gone without saying

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Speaker 4: the words. I went to Howard and I just stayed

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Speaker 4: ever since.

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Speaker 2: And what would you say, is your relationship to the city?

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I really do feel like it raised me.

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Speaker 4: I was talking with someone recently and I asked, how

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Speaker 4: long do you have to live in a place to

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Speaker 4: no longer be considered a transplant because I've lived in

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Speaker 4: DC for fifteen years now.

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Speaker 2: And my friend was like, you're good. Yeah, you're in.

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Speaker 2: I've been on and off in DC for twenty years.

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Speaker 2: I'm not there now, but I'm only ever away for

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Speaker 2: like a couple of years at a time. But I

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Speaker 2: count myself and I keep leaving. So you're in. You've

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Speaker 2: been there the whole time, steady, No.

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Speaker 4: I essentially bleed mambo sauce.

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Speaker 2: Now, as far as now, what kind of a black

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Speaker 2: are you?

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Speaker 4: Ooh, Okay, I've been thinking about this.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like.

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Speaker 4: Original recipe, Like I am just a regular, a very

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Speaker 4: regular black person, like not a new black, just old

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Speaker 4: fashioned black lady. Well okay, I'm not an old fashioned

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Speaker 4: black lady. Let me not say that, but I mean,

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Speaker 4: I was like, what is that old fashioned?

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Speaker 2: What's the original recipe? I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I don't have all the bells and whistles, like, I'm

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Speaker 4: not like, ooh, post racial society, even the conversations like

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Speaker 4: the diaspora wars. I think I'm a little original recipe

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Speaker 4: in that because I'm like, y'all, we.

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Speaker 2: Are all black. What are you and like people will

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Speaker 2: argue about the one drop rule and I'm like, mmm,

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Speaker 2: you're black.

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Speaker 4: I also, I think I have a very good black

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Speaker 4: dar Like there are people who are black and I

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Speaker 4: clock it, and I have friends who are like, that's

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Speaker 4: a black person. I'm like, I I know when a

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Speaker 4: Negro is in my presence.

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Speaker 2: I'm okay. So this might be this is awkward, this

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Speaker 2: is the third rail, but we're gonna this story is

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Speaker 2: about class. Yes, so on a scale of one to five,

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Speaker 2: one being trash and five being like free, clear, honest,

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Speaker 2: easy to do. Can you rate the quality of the

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Speaker 2: conversations about class that you've witnessed within the black community.

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Speaker 2: Oh it's hard to do.

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Speaker 4: It's hard because sometimes it's good and then sometimes it's bad.

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Speaker 4: Like I said, I went to Howard and there's that

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Speaker 4: tweet where someone's like, I hate Howard.

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Speaker 2: Bitches.

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Speaker 4: They're always in the bathroom arguing about slavery, and it's like,

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Speaker 4: I that's I am at the party. I am the

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Speaker 4: person in the bathroom arguing about slavery.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmmm hmmm.

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Speaker 4: Also, the thing is everyone tends to get blinded by

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Speaker 4: their own experience, and there's a defensiveness like an inherent defensiveness.

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Speaker 4: M I'm gonna give it a two. I'm gonna give

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Speaker 4: the conversations a two, especially if they're happening online.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, don't even try. Oh my god, I know.

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Speaker 2: Then it's like zero, It's yeah, why do you think

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Speaker 2: that is? Why do you think class is such a

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Speaker 2: like it makes people defensive?

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Speaker 4: Okay, I think no matter who you are, class gets sticky.

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Speaker 4: It's that whole thing. It's like, don't talk about politics

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Speaker 4: and money and it's both those things together. But I

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Speaker 4: think for so long class and race has been married

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Speaker 4: in this country, and for good reason, like understandably so

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Speaker 4: there have been systemic things that, you know, uh, make

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Speaker 4: a lot of black people part of the same class

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Speaker 4: and make it very hard to have upward mobility. But

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Speaker 4: when that upward mobility does exist, it can get a

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Speaker 4: little sticky because it's this thing of well, you're still

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Speaker 4: experiencing racism, and it's like yeah, but also like there

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Speaker 4: are privileges that come with having money, and then there's

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Speaker 4: all this like class anxiety that's harder to move up

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Speaker 4: in the world, and then you feel defensive about it,

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Speaker 4: and it's just it gets sticky so quickly.

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Speaker 2: How comfortable are you with discussing class. Oh, I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: comfortable with it.

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Speaker 4: But again, I think that's because I've been arguing in

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Speaker 4: bathrooms about the bathroom for the past fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: Okay. The story is about class and is actually in

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Speaker 2: DC ooh, back when it was really Chocolate City, back

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Speaker 2: when it was becoming Chocolate City. We are in the

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Speaker 2: Gilded Age aka the Victorian Era aka the eighteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: In Society News, President Grover Cleveland has become the first

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Speaker 2: and only president to get married in the White House.

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Speaker 2: Ye bride is twenty seven years his junior, and she

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Speaker 2: told their reverend, doctor Byron Sutherland, that they would be

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Speaker 2: changing her vows from honor love and obey to honor

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Speaker 2: love and keep a progressive lady, aggressive young lady. Reverend

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Speaker 2: doctor Sutherland is like, fine, we can do whatever you want,

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Speaker 2: because I've already been in so much trouble because he'd

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Speaker 2: married another DC recently, and in doing so, he'd ushered

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Speaker 2: in one of the biggest society scandals that the black

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Speaker 2: elite had ever seen. This is the story of a

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Speaker 2: battle between romance and class. This is the story of

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Speaker 2: the scandalous loves of Lulufrancis.

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Speaker 4: Oohoo, I love first of all, I love love, I

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Speaker 4: love scandals, I love drama.

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Speaker 2: This is the story for you then, Okay, So slavery

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Speaker 2: ended twenty years ago. Black people are moving all around

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Speaker 2: the country now that they can, and they're trying to

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Speaker 2: decide where do we want to be? What city are

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Speaker 2: we about to turn chocolate? A lot of them decide

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Speaker 2: on Washington.

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Speaker 1: D c.

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Speaker 2: Period. So there are a lot of really great black

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Speaker 2: schools there, obviously. Hu you know, there's a ton of

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Speaker 2: other black people around that's very attractive, the highest concentration

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Speaker 2: of black people in the nation at that time. And

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Speaker 2: in the city there's a class of black elites. They

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Speaker 2: are wealthy. They're from the DC Maryland Virginia area, which

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Speaker 2: obviously we call the DMV, and they're known as the

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Speaker 2: First Families. Oh so there's a couple different ways that

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Speaker 2: a person can become a member of the First Families,

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Speaker 2: the black elite. And I'm going to tell you how

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Speaker 2: one man did it. He is the father of the

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Speaker 2: star of today's episode, and his name is Richard Francis.

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Speaker 2: Richard was born enslaved in Virginia, a Southern gentleman never

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Speaker 2: mixed his own drinks, so they would have enslaved black

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Speaker 2: men do that for them. So this was one of

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Speaker 2: Richard's jobs. He did it really well. He didn't have

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Speaker 2: a choice. So when he was freed, eventually he went

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Speaker 2: to work at a white owned tavern up the street

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Speaker 2: from the White House. He rises from basically like a

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Speaker 2: bar back to the most popular bartender at this tavern,

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Speaker 2: it's called Hancock's Old Curiosity Shop.

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Speaker 4: Ooh, I'm drinking in old fashioned and I just imagine

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Speaker 4: the old fashions he would make me.

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Speaker 2: Oh, they would be so good. And you're black, so

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Speaker 2: he'd really hook him up. Well, you're a black woman

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Speaker 2: and it's the Victorian era, so maybe he wouldn't, so

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Speaker 2: he'd probably be like, why are you drinking, you hussy?

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Speaker 2: Go home. He is a really really good bartender, and

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Speaker 2: because of its location, it's really popular for politicians from

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Speaker 2: across the country to come in and they all fall

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Speaker 2: in love with his mint julips. This is his specialty.

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Speaker 2: One of his patrons is a senator and he tells

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Speaker 2: Richard that he wants to help him get a job

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Speaker 2: running the private restaurant in the US Senate, and Richard's like,

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Speaker 2: I would be very into that. So the Senator puts

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Speaker 2: in a good word and Richard gets the job. He's

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Speaker 2: not the first black man to hold that position, but

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Speaker 2: it's still like a really big deal. So once he's there,

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Speaker 2: he seems to be making good money. He takes his

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Speaker 2: earnings and invest them in DC real estate brilliant and

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Speaker 2: so then he makes more money and he can afford

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Speaker 2: to now be a member of the First Families. So

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Speaker 2: in order to be a member of the First Families,

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Speaker 2: you need to have a combination of the following. This

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Speaker 2: isn't an exhaustive list, but to start economic security, you

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Speaker 2: need enough money to not have to worry about money,

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Speaker 2: and you got to be real classy with it, meaning

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Speaker 2: you need to own a beautifully furnished home. You need

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Speaker 2: to dress well, you need to vacation in the right spots.

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Speaker 2: Harper's Ferry, West, Virginia actually is super popular. Oh with them.

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Speaker 2: Frederick Douglass and his family have a house out there.

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Speaker 2: Richard is financially set and I don't know how you

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Speaker 2: decorated his home or where he vacation, but he has money,

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Speaker 2: so check that's one thing. You have to have a

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Speaker 2: prestigious job running the private restaurant in the US Senate counts.

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Speaker 2: So check. You need to go to college. I don't

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Speaker 2: know Richard's educational background, but he's obviously very intelligent. But

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Speaker 2: he did not go to college, I'm assuming, so no

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Speaker 2: check for that. And you have to be from the DMV,

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Speaker 2: which he is from.

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Speaker 4: So check.

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Speaker 2: Oh, they're strict.

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Speaker 4: They are very serious about those rules of very serious.

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Speaker 4: I would not be grandfathered in my fifteen years. It'd

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Speaker 4: be like, girl, you are not from here.

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Speaker 2: They would be like, Nope, you're out. Rich has made

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Speaker 2: the three out of four, so that means him, his wife,

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Speaker 2: their son, and two daughters are officially members of the

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Speaker 2: first family. And so that brings us to the star

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Speaker 2: of today's story. This is one of Richard's daughters, Miss

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Speaker 2: Louise Marla Francis, whom everybody calls Lulu. Lulu is likely

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Speaker 2: a fashionista, a little spunky and opinionated, likely educated. She

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Speaker 2: would have been doing things like attending organizing meetings for

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Speaker 2: women's suffrage at the city's first black Presbyterian church, the

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Speaker 2: fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church. She's a woman described by The

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Speaker 2: Washington Post at the time as the bell of Colored DC.

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Speaker 2: So basically, she is our ideal rom com heroine. I

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Speaker 2: wish I had a picture of her, but I do not.

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Speaker 2: But let's cast her in our mind. Who do you

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Speaker 2: think could play this person?

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Speaker 4: Okay, it sounds like she's that girl and this person

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Speaker 4: is not an actress.

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Speaker 2: But I'm just.

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Speaker 4: Imagining, like Gilded Age Lorie Harvey.

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Speaker 2: That's so funny. I was thinking Lori Harvey.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like guilded age Lori Harvey. She's that girl, know

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Speaker 4: the girl, et cetera. Just remember that you're the prize, always, always.

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Speaker 2: Always, So once Lulu hits marrying age, inquiring minds would

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Speaker 2: want to know who is it going to be? Who's

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Speaker 2: she going to pick? Much like Lori Harvey at this time,

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Speaker 2: she could have ended up with a young w btw

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Speaker 2: boys they're in the same class, or maybe his mortal

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Speaker 2: enemy Booker T. Washington. Let's say, your Lulu, what would

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Speaker 2: your ideal husband at this time be? And for context,

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Speaker 2: let me just tell you that her sister married a

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Speaker 2: man with a good government job working at the pension office,

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Speaker 2: so that means they're economically secure, socially elite. Her brother

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Speaker 2: goes to Howard University and then the University of Michigan,

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Speaker 2: where he graduates magna cum Lottie, and then he comes

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Speaker 2: home to DC, marries an elite black woman at the

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Speaker 2: fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church, becomes a doctor. All right, so

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Speaker 2: you're Lulu, do I have to pick from the menu

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Speaker 2: you mentioned? Or can I make my ideal? Man up?

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Speaker 2: Make your eyes I deal eighteen eighty six.

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Speaker 4: Man up Ooh you know what, I'm gonna go with

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Speaker 4: a doctor. I'm gonna go with the doctor somebody that

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Speaker 4: like all the black people go to. They're like, oh,

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Speaker 4: he is that doctor. He is that guy, and I'll

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Speaker 4: be like, yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's my man. Okay. So Lulu starts dating one of

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Speaker 2: her dad Richard's employees. Oh he's an aspiring young barber

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Speaker 2: named John F. Cragwell. Can I have you read how

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Speaker 2: the papers described mister Cragwell at that time. It's on

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Speaker 2: page one.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, this is so rude. Craigwell is poor,

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Speaker 4: having only his wages to depend on.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's your man. M hm.

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Speaker 4: He's probably a nice guy. He might be rocking her

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Speaker 4: world in one of several ways. But also, like, what

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Speaker 4: else are we gonna I guess family money other than wages.

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Speaker 2: I mean yeah, ideally family money or real estate investments. Ough.

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Speaker 2: So rude, so rude. She likes that boy, she likes

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Speaker 2: the okay, so okay, So this is the thing. Craigwell

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Speaker 2: is a barber or a tonsillary artist, which is what

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Speaker 2: they're called. At this time, black men were like finding

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Speaker 2: that they actually really enjoy the experience of like going

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Speaker 2: to a shop together, talking reckless, hanging out, also getting

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Speaker 2: their hair done. So men are like, oh, okay, you

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Speaker 2: guys like this. They start opening barbershops somewhat regularly. They

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Speaker 2: begin popping up all over black communities and people are

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Speaker 2: starting to be like, huh, this seems like it's a

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Speaker 2: community hub. This seems like a potentially lucrative business. So

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Speaker 2: being a black barber does have the potential to become

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Speaker 2: like an important role in the black community and a

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Speaker 2: profitable job. So Lulu's like maybe, She's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's potential here. Dad like just let them cook, Like

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Speaker 2: we don't know what he can do. So they keep

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Speaker 2: dating and they do fall in love.

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Speaker 3: Ah.

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Speaker 2: So like, let's picture a romance montage. You're Lulu, You're

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Speaker 2: with your Craigwell. Can you just like describe the world

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Speaker 2: that you two would build together. What kind of dates

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Speaker 2: would you want to go on with him in the

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Speaker 2: eighteen eighties.

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Speaker 4: Oh, my gosh, I'm gonna tell you one thing. We

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Speaker 4: are getting ice cream. We are going to an ice

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Speaker 4: cream parlor.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 4: We are making eye contact at church and he is.

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Speaker 2: Walking me out while I fan myself. He's courting me.

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Speaker 4: He's sitting in my mother's parlor and we are drinking

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Speaker 4: tea under the watchful eye of my father and siblings.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, like, is there a promenade that we

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Speaker 4: go to.

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Speaker 2: Is there? I don't know what things are open.

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Speaker 4: There's probably no zoo yet, probably no museums, but like

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Speaker 4: whatever the version of that is, maybe he's outside my

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Speaker 4: window at night and throwing rocks and we're writing each

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Speaker 4: other letters. Maybe we even sneak a little kissy kiss

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Speaker 4: and no one sees it.

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Speaker 2: Being fast. This cross class kind of upstairs downstairs romance

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Speaker 2: is not something that the first families would have been

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Speaker 2: cool with. They're very snobby. So, like, just to put

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Speaker 2: it in person effective, there's like two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 2: thousand people in DC at this time, seventy five thousand

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Speaker 2: or thirty two percent of them are black, and then

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Speaker 2: four hundred of the seventy five thousand are members of

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Speaker 2: the First Families. Okay, so it's giving literal talent. You

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Speaker 2: took the words out of my mouth. That's what we're

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Speaker 2: talking about here, is the talented Tent. So the town's

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Speaker 2: ad fifth really, so the First Families, they're exclusive. If

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Speaker 2: you're wealthy and black, but you're coming to DC from

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Speaker 2: like Philly or New York or Detroit, they call you

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Speaker 2: a foreigner or a stranger. And if you're poor or

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Speaker 2: uneducated and black, they don't call you anything at all

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Speaker 2: because they're living by this mandate of lift as we climb.

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Speaker 2: The saying is everywhere. It's a huge part of the

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Speaker 2: strategy that the race has come up with during a

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Speaker 2: time when they literally had to move in next door

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Speaker 2: to the people who used to enslave them. So it's

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Speaker 2: like not a good time. So they think like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: how are we going to change this? How are we

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Speaker 2: going to make things better for ourselves? And WBTA boys

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Speaker 2: and a lot of people come up with this idea

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Speaker 2: of the Talented Tent and they're like, all right, we

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Speaker 2: need y'all to go in there. Be as respectable and

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Speaker 2: as elegant and educated as possible to put these white

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Speaker 2: people at ease and show them that, like, see, I'm

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Speaker 2: a human just like you see my hands. You can't

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Speaker 2: really reason. You have to be like it's okay, it's okay,

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Speaker 2: or you have to just fight.

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Speaker 4: But it gives something that I would have thought to

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Speaker 4: do when I was like in my twenties and felt

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Speaker 4: like I had something to prove.

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Speaker 2: And this is like they're the first generation of people.

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Speaker 2: A lot of them were slaves and now they're free.

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Speaker 2: White people are not okay with this. It's not like

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Speaker 2: everybody's like, oh, yeah, you earned it, good for you.

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Speaker 2: Like they're under duress at all times, so yes, you're

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Speaker 2: having to like overcompensate, overprove, overdo all these things. And

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Speaker 2: the idea is if we send y'all in there to

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Speaker 2: do that, then white people will be put at ease

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Speaker 2: and then go around to the back of the club,

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Speaker 2: open the door, and then you're gonna let all the

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Speaker 2: rest of us in. Here's what the strategy didn't for.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to be in something but not of it.

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Speaker 4: What did Audrey Lord say, master's house, master's tools, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So the talented tenth start to adopt the traditions

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Speaker 2: and the customs of the elites they're meant to be imitating.

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Speaker 2: And then they come back to the black community and

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Speaker 2: are these enforcers at the politics of respectability and brutal

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Speaker 2: critics of anybody that doesn't comply. Ooh, I wonder if

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Speaker 2: that had any long term consequences. You know what, I

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Speaker 2: keep thinking, I'm like, you create a strategy that'll really

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Speaker 2: work for you, but then, uh oh, we just kept

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Speaker 2: the same exact strategy for like hundreds of years. We

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Speaker 2: didn't update it, you know, as like modern people. I

365
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Speaker 2: think we're trying to update it now. But it's so

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Speaker 2: hard for me to judge them ever, because I'm like,

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Speaker 2: it did work. I am Hereah.

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Speaker 4: It's also the thing of like, if you're barely one

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Speaker 4: generation out of being enslaved, you know, I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna have some empathy.

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Speaker 2: Back to Lulu. Lulu has a friend who she does

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Speaker 2: seem to turn to for advice. The papers don't name her,

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Speaker 2: but I'm imagining her to be like a level headed

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Speaker 2: best friend, archetype like Dion and clueless. So I just

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Speaker 2: want to call her Dion.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, every rom com needs a best friend. Every rom

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Speaker 4: com needs a best friend.

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Speaker 2: Of course. All right, so I'm imagining this next part,

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Speaker 2: but indulge me. Dion probably would have listened to Lulu

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Speaker 2: go on and on and on about her great love

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Speaker 2: and these walks along the promenade the ice cream, and

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Speaker 2: she's like, girl, come on, now, do you really think

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Speaker 2: that this is going to work out? He is a barber,

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Speaker 2: and he is broke and we are royalty, like, what

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Speaker 2: are you doing? And Lulu was probably like, Dean, I

386
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Speaker 2: don't care about that. I don't care about upstairs, downstairs,

387
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Speaker 2: this side of the track, that side of the track.

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Speaker 2: I'm in love. And not only does she and Craig

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Speaker 2: Well continue dating, they get engaged. Oooh, but someone finds

390
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,919
Speaker 2: Craig Well and they have a conversation with him. We

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Speaker 2: don't know what they say, we don't know who it is.

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Speaker 2: All we know is that afterwards he goes to Lulu

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Speaker 2: and he says, I can't be with you anymore. Our

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Speaker 2: engagement is over. And then he moves to Pennsylvania. Oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, she has to stab him. He broke her heart.

396
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 2: Lulu is so sad. I'm picturing her like running upstairs

397
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Speaker 2: and then flinging herself on the bed and crying and

398
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Speaker 2: crying and crying, and Dion's trying to console her, but

399
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,719
Speaker 2: she's also maybe breathing a little sigh of relief along

400
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Speaker 2: with Richard, Lulu's dad, and the rest of the first families,

401
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 2: because Lulu was probably gonna end up like Lucinda Seton. Anyway,

402
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:53,480
Speaker 2: allow me to tell you the cautionary tale of Lucinda Seton. Oh,

403
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,119
Speaker 2: thirty years before Lulu's forbid love, the DMV had another

404
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 2: it girl and her name was Lucinda Seton. When a

405
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 2: famous German American painter came to d C looking to

406
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Speaker 2: paint the portrait of the quintessential African American lady to

407
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Speaker 2: be displayed across Europe. Do you know who he chose? Lucinda?

408
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 2: See not.

409
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Speaker 4: He's going to paint her like one of his German girls.

410
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Speaker 2: So Lucinda's all this happening with her her like time

411
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Speaker 2: to shine. It's eighteen fifty, so the Civil War is

412
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Speaker 2: ten years off. Slavery is in full effect. It's the culture.

413
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Speaker 2: But also we have a community of free black people,

414
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Speaker 2: and that's what her family is. But that year, the

415
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 2: census was taken and for the first time it recognized

416
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 2: and counted as separate Africans and mixed race people, so

417
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: half white, half black. So it was reported that there

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00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,480
Speaker 2: were a little over three million enslaved black people in

419
00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 2: America at that time, and two hundred and fifty thousand

420
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Speaker 2: of them were mixed race. So these two hundred and

421
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Speaker 2: fifty thousand people, for the most part, they're not born

422
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Speaker 2: of you know, like loving concent sensual relationships. That's how

423
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: we're not at all here, you know what I mean.

424
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,440
Speaker 2: So we're talking about horrible like mass rape from white

425
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 2: and slavers of black women, and then black women are

426
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,439
Speaker 2: giving births these hundreds of thousands of people, and these

427
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 2: are just the people that they counted. So the white

428
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 2: men who fathered these children at that time, there was

429
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,920
Speaker 2: like a culture among some of them of claiming these

430
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Speaker 2: children and either giving them better jobs on the plantation,

431
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Speaker 2: like in the house. We know what this does to

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Speaker 2: our community, But they're bringing their children inside all.

433
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,400
Speaker 4: Right, time for colorism to start.

434
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: But they're like, you know, you are my son, you

435
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 2: are my daughter. You work inside. It's disgusting and weird,

436
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 2: but this is what they're doing. Or they're freeing them

437
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 2: after a certain age, or sending them off to Europe

438
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 2: to be educated, or even sometimes leaving them inheritances. Some

439
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 2: of the elite families got their start this way, or

440
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 2: they claimed to have gotten their start this way because

441
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: it was seen as a respectable thing. It was like

442
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 2: you were special to your dad. Obviously, we know this

443
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 2: is how we came by being light skin, which is

444
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 2: among the most important qualities a member of the black

445
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: elite could ever possess. Horrible beginnings, what we did with

446
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,399
Speaker 2: that trauma is multiply it. But this is how this

447
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: is part of their story too. So Lucinda Seton's family seemed,

448
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,440
Speaker 2: from what I can surmise, to have partially gotten their

449
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 2: start this way. I mean they are very light. She's

450
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 2: like part Indian, part white, part black. Okay, he's a

451
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 2: red bone.

452
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,400
Speaker 4: As we say, she would be in the fenty three hundreds.

453
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 2: She would be in the fenty three hundreds. Thank you

454
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: for translating that from mono audience. So you know they're

455
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: free through all this, you know, weirdness and grossness. But

456
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 2: they also somebody opened up a grocery store and it

457
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 2: would eventually become the largest grocery store chain in the DMV,

458
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: and so that's how they came by a bunch of money.

459
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 2: So Lucinda's doing great. She's living the dream until she

460
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: marries a blacksmith. Smith is doing okay for him, so

461
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: he's doing, you know, the best of it can. But

462
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: he's also middle class, so now she is too. She

463
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 2: clearly married for love because she has to move into

464
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 2: a middle class neighborhood and a quaint little home on

465
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: I Street in northwest d C. Which is like now, now,

466
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 2: it's like girl, that's money, Yes, exactly. So she moves

467
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 2: to I Street where the men go to work and

468
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: the women raise kids and nobody comes by to paint

469
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 2: their pictures. Oh no. Lucinda has six kids, five girls

470
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 2: and a boy named William, and she seems to have

471
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 2: been searching for a way to get back in to

472
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: the first families that get back into the life she'd

473
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: become accustomed. But they need to make some money. If

474
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: Lucinda setons six kids get educated, they can get good jobs,

475
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: make real money, and put their family back on the map.

476
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 2: So all the kids are sent to school. William goes

477
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,199
Speaker 2: to the prestigious private elementary school in the basement the

478
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church. So now all Lucinda has to

479
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 2: do is just wait. Unfortunately, in eighteen sixty three, tragedy strikes.

480
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 2: Her husband is murdered during a robbery. Oh no, So

481
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 2: now Lucinda is a widow with six kids to feed.

482
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: I don't know if her family helped her out a bit.

483
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: Maybe they did, but she does become a dressmaker, and

484
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: she starts an ice cream shop to make ends meet.

485
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, did Lulu go there with Craig.

486
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: Well, they are going to cross paths, we'll see. But

487
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 2: she has to pull her kids out of their schools

488
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 2: to help earn money for their survival. Some of the

489
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: members of the First Families probably still stop by her

490
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 2: little house on Ice Street and wish her well, but

491
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: it's clear to everyone that Lucinda is now even further

492
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 2: away from being one of them than she was before.

493
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: She'd married into a precarious financial situation, and now she

494
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: was a poor with no hope of ever advancing. So

495
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 2: now we're back. We're back with Lulu and Dion. In

496
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: the eighteen eighties, we left Lulu. She's crying in her bedroom,

497
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: probably making it up, but you know, she's sobbing. Dion

498
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 2: is there. She's rubbing her head. She's saying, don't worry

499
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 2: about Craigwell. All men are dogs. It's gonna be okay.

500
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: Then I picture Lulu's father, Richard, poking his head in

501
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 2: the room to check on his daughter Lulu. She doesn't

502
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: notice him because she's sobbing, but Dion looks up. The

503
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 2: two exchange of knowing Glands. What was that? Look? Cut

504
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 2: to Lucinda's house. Lucinda sne is still in DC, in

505
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: that little house on I Street, and she would have

506
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: likely been watching the Lulu Craigwell affair with a lot

507
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: of interest, maybe because the story mirrored her own, or

508
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: maybe because she had made it her and her six

509
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 2: kids business to know exactly actly what the First Families

510
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 2: were getting into and to tell everybody.

511
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 4: Oh, that is nasty, Lucinda, don't be nasty.

512
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: They may have counted her out, but they shouldn't have,

513
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: because Lucinda has a son named William Chase, and he's

514
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: all grown up now and she's taught him everything she knows.

515
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 2: William and Lucinda are coming for the First Families, and sadly,

516
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 2: Lulu will find herself caught in the crossfire. Oh my god.

517
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 4: But you know what, I watch a lot of housewives,

518
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 4: so I do understand when you get iced out, Like

519
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 4: the alternative is like time to be a gossip monger

520
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 4: and start some mess coming up.

521
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: Lucinda starts a beehive and Lulu prepares to become a bride.

522
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 3: We now return to our ancestors were messy.

523
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 2: Back to Lulu. She's single now, but then she meets

524
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: a man. His name is mister Sneed. Mister who mister

525
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: snead s n e ed.

526
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 4: Okay, so she's back outside. She's back outside, all right,

527
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,360
Speaker 4: she got her toes. She doesn't have her toes out.

528
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 4: It's the Gilded day.

529
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, no whatever.

530
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 4: That version is like, hey girl, we've got a new man.

531
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 4: Forget that old one. We're moving on.

532
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 2: Mister Sneed is a waiter at the Arlington Hotel, which

533
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: is one of America's most opulent hotels. And the first

534
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 2: families would have been like, this is a great look.

535
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 2: The papers call him swell h A waiter's a great look. Yeah,

536
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 2: because it's had a really really really fancy hotel, okay,

537
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: and because at this time to put on a uniform

538
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: and work in a hotel like work for dignitaries and

539
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 2: all these things. This is really really important to them. Okay,

540
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 2: So Lulu and Sneed begin a courtship. Lulu and Sneed

541
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: get engaged. Lulu's dad, Richard, agrees to give them a

542
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: wedding present, which is a uh love that mm hmmm,

543
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: we love a house's gift. That's amazing. Lulu and her

544
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: parents and maybe mister Sneed draft an invite list, and

545
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 2: although I couldn't find it, I could guess who would

546
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: be on it. All the first families, the famed suffragette

547
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: Mary Church Terrell and the Terrells love Mary Church Terrell, Langston,

548
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: Hughes's great uncle John Mercer Langston and the Langstons would

549
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 2: of course be there. Obviously, they have to invite the

550
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 2: founder of the fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church, John F. Cook,

551
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: and the Cooks, the McKinley's, the Cardozos, the grim Keys.

552
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 2: Everybody's gonna be there, as in Cardozo High School. Cardozo's right,

553
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: I know, it's wild. Wow. I was like, all these

554
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: last names come from this, what I know?

555
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 4: I saw I heard a seat and I was like,

556
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 4: wait a minute, I know that street and the school.

557
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: So then this question arises between the couple. I'm guessing

558
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: Lulu is the one that asked this question. She says,

559
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: mister Snead, should we invite mister Craigwell to our wedding?

560
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: Would you ever invite an ex to your wedding? Okay?

561
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: And this is gonna sound messy.

562
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 4: If y'all are cool and your current partner does not

563
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 4: know the extent of your friendship with this person, yes,

564
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 4: but if it is well known, girl, he does not

565
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 4: need to be there. No, stop being messy.

566
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, Lulu's parents send out the invitations and the

567
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 2: household prepares for a royal wedding two people who most

568
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: certainly would not have received an invite from the Francis

569
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: family and would have been in their feelings about it.

570
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: For Lucinda Seaton and her now grown son, William Chase. So,

571
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: if you'll recall, she'd had to pull him out of

572
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: school when he was nine to help support the family,

573
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: and he started selling newspapers and that's how you got

574
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: to know a lot of the editors and the newsrooms

575
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: and the reporters in Black DC. He grows up, he

576
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: goes to Howard Law school who passes the bar. He

577
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: becomes a lawyer, and he will continues reporting and working

578
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: in various newsrooms. And he lives at home on I

579
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 2: Street with his mom and his sisters. They're all very close.

580
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: William has got this flare for the dramatic. He has

581
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: dreams of becoming a renowned actor, and he actually ends

582
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: up falling in love with and marrying another actor, and

583
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 2: the two of them are in little plays together and stuff.

584
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 2: It's very cute. Mainly though, his time is spent lawyering, reporting,

585
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: and jockeying for political appointments. Because there's another way that

586
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: a person can become a member of the black elite,

587
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: and that is by doing the absolute most. If he

588
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: can become a combination lawyer, reporter, and politician, he will

589
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: be economically secure, have the most prestigious jobs anyone can have,

590
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: be lifting as he climbs in matters of law, news

591
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: and politics.

592
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 4: Okay, being a politician and a journalist at the same

593
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 4: time gives me pause, but I do respect the hustle.

594
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: It's a wild combo, But like, how do you go

595
00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 2: on both these things?

596
00:31:59,760 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 4: Sir?

597
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: But okay, totally fine, no questions. We're all on board.

598
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: No notes. But the problem was when it came to

599
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: the politics. He never seemed to get the political appointments

600
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 2: that he went after, and when he was rejected, he

601
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 2: did not take it and stride. He would go into

602
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: the office of whatever newspaper he was working for at

603
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 2: the time, he would sit down at his typewriter and

604
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 2: he would go absolutely insane on everyone he held responsible

605
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 2: for him not getting the jobs he thought he deserved.

606
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 2: So like one time, Frederick Douglass was like, I will

607
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 2: hook you up, and he said great or great great,

608
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 2: and then Frederick Douglas is like, no, no, I can't.

609
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 2: He publishes all this that I hate you. I hate

610
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: the way that you dress, I hate the way that

611
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: you I hate your hair, like just Patty.

612
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 4: Well, okay, but if you're going scorched or like that,

613
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 4: that's why you're not a politician, like a not insignificant

614
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 4: amount of having a career is being personal and getting

615
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 4: people to like you. And if you go scorched earth

616
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 4: when you get a no, you're gonna keep getting those right.

617
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 2: But he doesn't care. People describe him as handsome, a climber,

618
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: and very very combative.

619
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 4: Oh he was handsome. I see why he's like that.

620
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: Like, oh wait, that changes everything. Okay, got it clear,

621
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: That's why he's acts like that. So finally William does

622
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 2: secure one of the jobs he's been going after. He's

623
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: named the editor of The Washington b a brand new

624
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: weekly paper serving the black citizens of DC whose motto

625
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: was Stings for our enemies, honey for our friends. Oh

626
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: oh oh. It's estimated that at this time there are

627
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 2: like twelve thousand newspapers serving segregated black communities across America,

628
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: but when you get to a major city like DC,

629
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: there's usually a few, so the competition is really fierce

630
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 2: and you need to do something to stand out. So

631
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 2: William is like, what's up, sisters, what's up my wife?

632
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 2: You all are now going to be on stay at

633
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: the Washington B And he makes all of them like

634
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: reporters and cultural critics in addition to some outside people.

635
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: And then they set up offices at Lucinda's house on

636
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 2: I Street. There they turned the Bee into appointment reading.

637
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,440
Speaker 4: So was it like the shade Room? Essentially this was

638
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 4: their shade room.

639
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so it was. They primarily cover news related

640
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,439
Speaker 2: to the fight for civil rights and social justice. They're

641
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: like covering news that all the white papers are covering,

642
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 2: but without all the racism and with black people in it.

643
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 2: That's like the idea mm hmm. But they also make

644
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 2: sure from time to time to just let William get

645
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 2: behind his typewriter and do his thing. He'll be like,

646
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 2: what's up, White leaders? I am so sick and tired

647
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: of all the ways that you do not point black

648
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: people to position the power. You are so racist and

649
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: you're so hypocritical. And then he'll be like, what's up,

650
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 2: Black leaders? Nothing that you're doing is going to make

651
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,439
Speaker 2: a difference in the black community because you are too

652
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: intellectual and you're too theoretical. And then this is his favorite,

653
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: He's like, what's up, first, families, you think you're so

654
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 2: much better than us, You think I don't know what's

655
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: going on behind closed doors. A lot of his readers,

656
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 2: who The Bee refers to as the household, that's what

657
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 2: they call black DC.

658
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 4: He's like, okay, exactly, but it's giving the shape room exactly.

659
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: It's good branding. It's good branding. You got a brand

660
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: your audience. The household feels looked down upon by the

661
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: black elites because they're working class or they're poor, or

662
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: their dark skin, or they couldn't go to college, and

663
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: so behind their back, the household calls the first families

664
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,959
Speaker 2: the fust families, the what families fust f ust, which

665
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: is slang for musty.

666
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,240
Speaker 4: Oh nothing, musty, jesus. Okay, I think being called musty

667
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 4: is the worst thing that can happen to you.

668
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 2: Do you know? I agree, because like musty isn't just stinky.

669
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 4: Musty is like you're funky and you've been flunky for

670
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 4: a minute.

671
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 2: Can I have you read on page two what the

672
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:03,879
Speaker 2: be said about them?

673
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 4: Yes, let me see who. They wouldn't be caught dead

674
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,799
Speaker 4: with an ordinary Negro, and they foolishly expect to become

675
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 4: absorbed by the white race.

676
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: Ooh, drag them? No, okay, but here's the thing. You're Lulu,

677
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: so you're the fusty one. How would you feel reading this? Okay?

678
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 4: And this is what? Okay, this makes me think. It's

679
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 4: that thing of hey, we're all black people, et cetera,

680
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 4: et cetera. But and I admit sometimes when I see

681
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,479
Speaker 4: tweets about this where people complaining about quote unquote black

682
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 4: elite or like black college educated people, there's something in

683
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 4: you that inherently gets defensive, even though you'll have these

684
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 4: conversations about men, about white supremacy, and you say, hey,

685
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 4: you gotta take a hard look at XYZ. But when

686
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 4: the finger points to you, it admittedly does not feel good.

687
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,920
Speaker 2: And I do feel like people start bringing out their

688
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, no, their cards where it's like, well,

689
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 2: my dad, my pay I'm first generation college graduate, Like

690
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: I don't. Don't put me with them, like my family

691
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: grew up with no money. You just want to start

692
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 2: you do these things.

693
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 4: And it takes a lot of work to check that

694
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 4: and say, okay, only hit dogs holler if I'm hollering,

695
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 4: what am I doing? What's happening? And that takes a

696
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 4: lot of maturity and a lot of thought.

697
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: So back to William. He is assaulted twice and sued

698
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: five times for libel over his articles. He's like, I

699
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: don't care. There's this section of the paper called the

700
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 2: Clara and Louise column. Every week the paper publishes a

701
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: letter from an anonymous Clara to an anonymous Luis or

702
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: vice versa. And in the letters, among other things, they

703
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,720
Speaker 2: share the tor details about the ups and the downs

704
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 2: and the scandals of the first families, Okay, lady whistledown.

705
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 2: The lady whistled down to a t and the first

706
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 2: families hate this column. Their complaints about it reached such

707
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: a fever pitch that William, who is normally like don't care,

708
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 2: don't care, don't care, has to release a statement being like, sorry,

709
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: I don't know who Clara and Louise are. I understand

710
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 2: your pain. However, I am never going to stop. I'm

711
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: never going to back down. Every week, tune in because

712
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to be publishing all of their insights into

713
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 2: your scandals and your hypocrisies. On November twenty seventh, eighteen

714
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 2: eighty six, just five days before Lulu and Sneed's wedding,

715
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 2: the Washington be publishes a bombshell in their weekly gossip column, which,

716
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 2: as you'll recall, is written in the form of letters

717
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 2: between an anonymous Clara and an anonymous Louise. I have

718
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: compiled a medley of the letters that Clara and Louise

719
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: wrote to each other over the next two weeks about

720
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 2: the scandal, which I would love for us to read

721
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:51,839
Speaker 2: right now, if you would not mind. I think I'm

722
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 2: playing Louise, if you will play Clara dear Clara, I

723
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: hardly know how to begin or what relate first. But

724
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 2: the most sensational thing that has ever happened in our

725
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: society is the elopement of missus Lulu Francis girl. Not

726
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: you Elope, Cho.

727
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 4: Dear Louise, your letter to the household last week was

728
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,279
Speaker 4: read with a great deal of interest. I never was

729
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 4: made more surprised in my life.

730
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 2: It will be remembered that mister Craigwell had been going

731
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: with Miss Francis for a number of years, and it

732
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: was understood that the engagement between them had been canceled.

733
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 4: Mister Craigwell was persuaded to break the engagement by a

734
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 4: lady connected with the Francis family.

735
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: Oh did I think nasty work? Nasty work.

736
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 4: Then Miss Francis went to Harrisburg on a visit, and

737
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,439
Speaker 4: mister Craigwell did not greet her with any respect, nor

738
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:52,959
Speaker 4: did he.

739
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: Write to her for over a year.

740
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 4: Still, she said that he was the only man she

741
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 4: ever loved, and if she married an it would be

742
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 4: for spite. The lady was told by a friend not

743
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 4: to marry for spite. Okay, Lulu, Lulu, while you let

744
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 4: why you let men play let's just continue because I

745
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 4: have I have a lot of thoughts. Let's continue.

746
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 2: Mister Snead expressed tender feelings for the lady. He gave

747
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 2: her his heart, and they were engaged, and he went

748
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 2: to the expense of making their wedding a brilliant affair.

749
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 4: The lady asked her friend would be wise to give

750
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 4: mister Craigwell an invite to her marriage. She was told now,

751
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,560
Speaker 4: Mister Craigwell, on the reception of an invitation from Miss

752
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 4: Francis and mister Sneed, announcing their marriage, immediately left Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,

753
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 4: and came to d C. Once in the city, mister

754
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 4: Craigwell remarked to his friend that he would never leave

755
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 4: d C without Miss Lulufrancis, but, finding that he could

756
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 4: not persuade her parents to bless his reunion with Miss Francis,

757
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,839
Speaker 4: he returned to Harrisburg. Mister Craigwell could not rest in Harrisburg,

758
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 4: so he returned again to d C and inaugurated another scheme.

759
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 4: This time, he solicited the services of the sister of

760
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 4: Miss Lulu. While out walking with mister Sneed, Miss Lulu

761
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,479
Speaker 4: called at her sister's and told mister Sneed to wait

762
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 4: outside as she wanted to see her sister about address.

763
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 4: Mister Craigwell was there and he pleaded with her to

764
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 4: become his wife.

765
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: Mister Craigwell told Miss Francis that he always loved her

766
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 2: and that it was hard to see his first love

767
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: married to another man who would make her life miserable.

768
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 2: At this juncture, Miss Francis said, but my invitations are

769
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 2: out for my marriage to mister Sneed. Oh I could

770
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: fix that, said mister Craigwell. After deciding what steps were

771
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: best to pursue. It said that Miss Francis, mister Craigwell,

772
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 2: her sister, and her brother in law traveled to the

773
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 2: residence of Reverend Doctor Sunderland, who married President Grover Cleveland.

774
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 4: In the afternoon of Wednesday, November second, The marriage license

775
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 4: was procured and they were married. Doctor Sunderland said that

776
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 4: he thought the affair a romance and that it did

777
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 4: not excite his suspicions. It was settled, and poor mister

778
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 4: Sneed was made a victim of despair.

779
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 2: The household is started and society is up in arms

780
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 2: to think that Miss Francis would be guilty of such

781
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 2: an act.

782
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 4: Mister and Missus Francis are heartbroken to think that their

783
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 4: daughter would treat them so.

784
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: She has been reared a lady and looked upon and

785
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: respected as such. Her parents consist of the best elements

786
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: of our society. This is Sneed's last song. Where has

787
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: my Lulugan? Is a song I shall sing.

788
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 4: The chestnut bells are ringing, and the boys are singing. Sneed, Sneed, Sneed,

789
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 4: Oh Sneed, Where has thy Lulugan? I have been told

790
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,919
Speaker 4: that mister Sneed has received a just retribution. It's said

791
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 4: that he had many sympathizing friends who regretted that he

792
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 4: was disappointed, and many young ladies who were pleased.

793
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 2: I saw mister Sneed at the fraternals last Wednesday evening,

794
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: and he approached Major Fleetwood and said, Major, I carried

795
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: you an invitation to my wedding, but I suppose that

796
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 2: you have heard that my intended has gone off with another.

797
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 2: Then Major laughed and said, yes, Snead, I don't know

798
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: whether to congratulate you or to extend my condolences. Mister Sneed,

799
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 2: in reply, said that he would like to have his

800
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 2: congratulations yours lovingly, yours truly Louise Clara. All right, girl,

801
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 2: go ahead, so much to say. I have so much

802
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,960
Speaker 2: to say, and it really is giving. Lori Harvey, I'm

803
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 2: glad that's who we live with. I feel like mister

804
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 2: Sneed is Michael B.

805
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 4: Jordan, Oh, mister Sneed is, Oh, mister Steed is Michael B. Jordan,

806
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 4: which you know, Michael, call me. I'm around. I have

807
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 4: so many thoughts because, on one hand, it's better to

808
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 4: end a marriage before it's miserable. She clearly was not

809
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 4: into it. He was, although you know at the end

810
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 4: he's like it was. He feels very draky. It's very

811
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 4: like her loss. And I mean that derogatory that being said,

812
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 4: don't spend the block like no, if that man left once,

813
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 4: he'll leave again. And when he does it again, you're

814
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 4: gonna feel so stupid. I just like, oh, I'm gonna

815
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 4: get you back, baby, like I guess. But she let

816
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 4: that man spend the block and here we are, what

817
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 4: a scandal. I think it would have been better if

818
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 4: she had said, you know, I'm not feeling it, call

819
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 4: it off, maybe wait some time, lay low a little bit,

820
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 4: but to run off and get married. Also, her sister

821
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 4: was in Cahoots. We can't forget this. It's not all Lulu.

822
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 4: Her sister was in Cahut.

823
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: So was it her mom who was all like, don't

824
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: marry that girl? No, they said it was a friend.

825
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 2: So that's why I feel like Diana. Okay, So this

826
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 2: is my conspiracy theory that I had cooked up in

827
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 2: my head based on no evidence. I feel like Richard,

828
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 2: Lulu's dad went to Dion, Lulu's best friend, and he

829
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 2: was like, Dion, my daughter cannot marry that broke barber.

830
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,359
Speaker 2: I need you to go to him and tell him

831
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: that if he really cares for Lulu, the best thing

832
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 2: he can do for her is to leave her. And

833
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 2: so then Dion like went to him. She said that

834
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 2: Lulu is like, oh my god, he left me. I

835
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 2: want to be with him. And maybe Richard gave him

836
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: some money, because you know that's how rich people do it.

837
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: That is true. So then mister Craigwell leaves town. Lulu

838
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 2: is like, oh my god, like, I can't live without him.

839
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 2: Dion's like, you'll be fine. Lulu's like, should I invite

840
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 2: him to my wedding? Dion is like, girl, no, then

841
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 2: boom boom boom, He's back in her life. They're married.

842
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 4: Also, it's this thing of and this is something my

843
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 4: mom always said, And of course there are exceptions to

844
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 4: this rule, but it's a thing of if your child

845
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,720
Speaker 4: is dating someone you don't like, don't make a fuss

846
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 4: because that will only drive them into their arms.

847
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: Ooh yeah, and that's exactly what they did.

848
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 3: You came for the mess Now stay for the rest

849
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 3: When our Ancestors were Messy continues, and now for the

850
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 3: thrilling conclusion of this week's installment of Our Ancestors were Messy.

851
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: After the elopement, it's reported that Craigwell went to see

852
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 2: about making arrangements for him and Lulu to get to Pennsylvania,

853
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 2: and Lulu and her sister went home to face their parents. Allegedly,

854
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 2: mister Sneed is also there. Me, I would just fake

855
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 2: my own desk. Yeah, how would your parents react to

856
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: you showing up at the door being like okay, Mary, Okay.

857
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 4: The thing is I'm an only child, So the amount

858
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 4: of conniption that would be.

859
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 2: Had, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you would never survive it. Unfortunately,

860
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 2: there's no record of what went down at the Francis

861
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 2: home during this meeting, but at the end, mister Sneaed

862
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 2: is sent away and that's the last we ever hear

863
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:07,240
Speaker 2: of them. Now, Richard Francis Lulu's dad, and his wife,

864
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: Lula's mom. They are humiliated in front of all the

865
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 2: first families, the household, and potentially hundreds of thousands of

866
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: recorded black newspaper readers across the nation, because I found

867
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: articles about this elopement and papers in New York, in

868
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 2: Alabama and Missouri, and a lot of them were pulling

869
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: their reporting from the Beast, So this is bad. Also,

870
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: since Lulu was on the radar of the Washington Post,

871
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 2: White DC may have known about all of this too,

872
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 2: and so Richard may have had to deal with his

873
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 2: coworkers and clients whispering about this in the US Senate

874
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: as well as everywhere that he went in DC. Not

875
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: long after the scandal, in eighteen eighty eight, Richard passes

876
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 2: away suddenly, all his stress. His funerals held at the

877
00:47:56,280 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 2: fifteenth Street Presbyterian Church. Today, bartenders still remember and revere

878
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 2: Richard for his incredible mint Julips. When I was doing

879
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,239
Speaker 2: the research for this episode, I kept getting linked to

880
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: all these magazines and all these articles about like famous

881
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 2: black bartenders and recipes, famous recipes created by black bartenders,

882
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: and there was Richards. It's the Dick Francis Special for

883
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 2: a mint Julip, and I will link the recipe in

884
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 2: the show notes. I never did find another article after

885
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 2: the scandal that mentioned Richard and Lulu together, so I

886
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 2: don't know what their father daughter relationship was after that

887
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 2: or at the time that he passed away. But in

888
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: the bios of his that I came across, and in

889
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 2: his obituary, he's listed as having left behind a wife

890
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 2: and one son, and that's it day, So both the

891
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: daughters got got maybe both the daughters. I don't know.

892
00:48:53,200 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: Dang dang heard Nanny strict. I know Washington Be continues

893
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: to grow in readership and prestige post elopement scandal, and

894
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 2: they gain a reputation across DC and in history as

895
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: a paper that fought fearlessly for civil rights and social justice,

896
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,239
Speaker 2: in addition to the Clara Luis gospel column. But that's

897
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,839
Speaker 2: less so in the history books. That's in the back.

898
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: And eighteen eighty three, Lucinda passes away with the Washington

899
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 2: Be still running from her home on Eye Street, which

900
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 2: she managed to hold on too, against all odds and

901
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 2: then pass on to her children. So shout out to Lucinda.

902
00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 2: I know that's right. William keeps the paper going right

903
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 2: up until his death in nineteen twenty one, which made

904
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: it at that time one of the longest running black

905
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 2: newspapers in America. The DC First Family, you know, it's

906
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 2: hard to track down exactly what happened to them or

907
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 2: all their wealth. Obviously, DC people will recognize some of

908
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,959
Speaker 2: the names seton McKinley, but unfortunately those places are named

909
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 2: after the enslavers that the First Family shared names with,

910
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 2: not the First Families themselves. Oh yeah, although I will

911
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 2: say Cardozo is named after Francis Cardozo, who was a

912
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 2: famous Black clergyman and politician. So we got that one.

913
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 2: But here's what we do know. Charles County in PG County, Maryland,

914
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 2: right outside of DC, are the richest majority black counties

915
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 2: in the nation, and they have been for a very

916
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 2: long time. And I don't know why these places in

917
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 2: Maryland became bastions of black wealth, but it does seem

918
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: like in some way the legacy of the First Families

919
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 2: in DC still lives on. But I wish someone would

920
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 2: look into this because I would love to know, like,

921
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 2: why do they congregate there?

922
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 4: What is it about pretty Girl County that we can't

923
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 4: stay away from?

924
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 2: Uh? Uh uh. As for our newlyweds, mister and missus Craigwell,

925
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 2: they spend a little bit of time out in Pennsylvania

926
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,520
Speaker 2: and then right before the turn of the century they

927
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 2: moved to Seattle, Washington, and once they get there, they

928
00:50:55,160 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: make their way into black history. Now I can only

929
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 2: find a record of what mister Craigwell did because of

930
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 2: the times. But I know, I believe and feel that

931
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 2: I know that Lulu was there right beside him, holding

932
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 2: him down. Can I have you read the summary of

933
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,839
Speaker 2: mister Creigwell's life, which was written up for his obituary

934
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:19,240
Speaker 2: and published in Seattle's black newspaper, The Northwest Enterprise.

935
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 4: Okay, uh Northwest. Mister John Fields Craigwell, pioneer resident of

936
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 4: Seattle and veteran barber, died Monday morning from a heart ailment.

937
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 4: Mister Craigwell was born in Virginia in eighteen sixty two.

938
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 4: After graduation from high school, young Craigwell moved to Pennsylvania,

939
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 4: but later returned to Washington, where he engaged.

940
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 2: In the barber business.

941
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 4: In eighteen eighty five, mister Craigwell was married to Miss

942
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 4: Louise Francis, by the same minister that Mary Grover Cleveland.

943
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 4: They moved to Seattle in eighteen ninety, where the young

944
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 4: barber again started his business. His shop was a gathering

945
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 4: place for business leaders during and after the days of

946
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 4: the Alaska gold Rush. During his fifty six years as

947
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 4: a barber, he shaved many notables, including Presidents Theodore Roosevelt

948
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 4: and William McKinley, John jacobast Alexander Graham Bell, and many others.

949
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 4: Besides his business, mister Craigwell was interested in several civic affairs.

950
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 4: He used to take an active part in politics, and

951
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 4: at the time of his death he held one of

952
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 4: the highest offices in the Presbyterian Church.

953
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 2: Surviving are his widow.

954
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 4: Missus Louise Craigwell, two daughters, three grandchildren, and one great grandchild.

955
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 4: On November twenty fourth, nineteen thirty five, mister and Missus

956
00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 4: Craigwell celebrated their fiftieth wedding anniversary, which hundreds of Seattle's

957
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 4: citizens attended.

958
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 2: Oh thank got a happy ending. Good for you girl.

959
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 4: Okay, you could spend the block this one time, but

960
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 4: never do it again.

961
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 2: Craigwell passes away in nineteen thirty seven and Lulu passes

962
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: away in nineteen forty two. And as much as I

963
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 2: would love to tell you that's the end, I want

964
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: you to have this happy ending, there is one last part.

965
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh, why are they like this? See, don't

966
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 2: spend the block. I told you, I told you, don't

967
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 2: do it. Do not text that man. Yes, Lulu and

968
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 2: Craigwell were among Seattle's earliest black citizens and members of

969
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:16,120
Speaker 2: Seattle's black elite. And yeah, Craigwell does go on to

970
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,759
Speaker 2: become a barber and the city's most successful black entrepreneur.

971
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 2: He has a staff of eleven toncilary artists in fashionable

972
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 2: downtown barber shops. But about those shops, So white people

973
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 2: really liked to be waited on by black people immediately

974
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: following the end of slavery, but they didn't want other

975
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 2: black people around also being served. So some barbers would

976
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 2: guarantee their all white clients, tell that the staff would

977
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 2: be all black, but that they wouldn't serve any black people.

978
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 2: And members of Seattle's black press accused Craigwell of this practice,

979
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:58,280
Speaker 2: and they call him a segregationist barber. It's very hard

980
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 2: to be in it but not of it. Of course,

981
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 2: there's so much more that happened, but for now, that

982
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 2: is the story of the scandalous cross class romance of

983
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: Miss Lulu Francis.

984
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 4: Wow, buh gilded age, Lori Harvey, you took me through

985
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 4: a lot, just.

986
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 2: Now a lot. Do you think it's possible to be

987
00:54:32,560 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 2: in it but not of it, to be operating in

988
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 2: these spaces of power but not adopting their practices and

989
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,280
Speaker 2: their ways of thinking and treating people.

990
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 4: Ooh, this is a question that I think about a lot,

991
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 4: just living my own life and living in DC. I

992
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 4: would like to think that you can be around and

993
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 4: not be dragged down by the grips and allure of power,

994
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 4: but I know that as humans we don't do that.

995
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 4: It's almost like the Ring and Lord of the Ring

996
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 4: is like you're around it and the pool becomes so

997
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 4: strong that you can't say no, and then like what

998
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 4: do you become?

999
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 2: You know?

1000
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 4: I would like to think that someone is strong enough

1001
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 4: to do it, but I don't know if that person exists.

1002
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's real. How are you feeling about the tactic

1003
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 2: uplift as we climb as a strategy for eighteen eighty six,

1004
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 2: what do we gain? What do we lose?

1005
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 4: Okay, huh, Honestly, there are things about There are things

1006
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 4: about it that worked at the time, so I can't

1007
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 4: begrudge them that. And I guess like the other option

1008
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 4: would have led to even more death and destruction for

1009
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,279
Speaker 4: black people. So I get the route that they took,

1010
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 4: and you know, talk about Monday morning quarterbacking. But you

1011
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 4: know what if we say, Okay, we're just going to

1012
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 4: do this for two years and then like we have

1013
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 4: to be real people after this, you know, we can't

1014
00:55:54,680 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 4: be doing this in twenty twenty four, Like they here's

1015
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,399
Speaker 4: a plan where this strategy is sunseted by twenty twenty four.

1016
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: What would what would you have us do?

1017
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 4: Probably disengage completely, just stop caring, like just being like

1018
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,880
Speaker 4: nothing is going to work. If people want to be racist,

1019
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:15,879
Speaker 4: they're just gonna do it, and they will find any

1020
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 4: and every reason to do it. At this point, who

1021
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:20,560
Speaker 4: cares about the white gays? What are we up to?

1022
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 2: That is the strategy I we deploy. Now, what do

1023
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 2: you think about looking at black history starting from the

1024
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: messy beginnings? Because Craig Weell is like in Seattle, that

1025
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 2: name is a big deal. He's like seen as a

1026
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 2: big pioneer and as a person who's done this incredible thing.

1027
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 2: And you start the story from the time that he

1028
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 2: got to Seattle, and then you know, you kind of

1029
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,320
Speaker 2: talk about all the hard work he did, everything he overcame,

1030
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 2: his incredible resilience in business acumen, and he's you know,

1031
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 2: an amazing black capitalist. But we don't talk, you know

1032
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 2: about the southern part. Yeah, I don't know.

1033
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 4: I kind of like the mess because it's also a

1034
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 4: reminder that something my mom would say to me over

1035
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,600
Speaker 4: and over again is there's nothing new on under the sun.

1036
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,720
Speaker 4: And I would think, mmm, I don't think that's true.

1037
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 4: But this makes me realize, no, there really is nothing

1038
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 4: new under the sun. And I think we would all

1039
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 4: give ourselves a lot more grace if we looked at

1040
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 4: our ancestors as people and knew that they could get

1041
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 4: messy too, sometimes even messier.

1042
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 2: Because this is wild. I'm like, five days before your wedding,

1043
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 2: like that is wild. Like she loved that man down