Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to Okay f Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the Bunker, Folks.
Speaker 1: This recording is taking place before the hearings that will
Speaker 1: happen with the House Commission, so we will be covering
Speaker 1: that in the next show. But I want to bring
Speaker 1: to you today a conversation once again for our Pride
Speaker 1: as a Riot series with my friend, activist writer, transactivist, writer,
Speaker 1: advocate Tik Milan. You know, I have had throughout my
Speaker 1: many many years as an activist, as an advocate, as
Speaker 1: a policy wonk, have had a of hate relationship with
Speaker 1: Pride and because of the capital list nature of it,
Speaker 1: right what I'm finding and we're seeing it right now
Speaker 1: with Juneteenth, Juneteenth becoming a federal holiday means that corporations
Speaker 1: want to dig their hands into how they can make
Speaker 1: money right off of the something that is about the
Speaker 1: sanctity of our freedom as black people and the travesty
Speaker 1: that Juneteenth, even as a holiday, needed to exist because
Speaker 1: it was the last of the enslaved Africans that would
Speaker 1: hear of their freedom. Right and now you have fucking
Speaker 1: corporations turning around and making ice cream and T shirts
Speaker 1: to sell back to the very communities that they extract from, right,
Speaker 1: and so with pride. You know, I when I first
Speaker 1: came out, I was so excited to attend, you know,
Speaker 1: my first Pride per raid, my first Pride parties because
Speaker 1: you know, as a young queer person, and the times
Speaker 1: are different now, but I just want to imagine, you know,
Speaker 1: bring you back to a time and imagine what it
Speaker 1: was like before there was marriage equality, before you saw
Speaker 1: you know, corporations lifting up rainbow flags, before you know,
Speaker 1: you had politicians even uttering the world gay or lesbian.
Speaker 1: You know, I grew up in a time where Donas
Speaker 1: don't Tell was hailed as progressive, right. I grew up
Speaker 1: in a time when you know, Ellen DeGeneres had lost
Speaker 1: her job because she came out and said that she
Speaker 1: was gay and on the cover of a magazine and
Speaker 1: then you didn't hear from her for well over a decade.
Speaker 1: So when that is the kind of imagery that's being
Speaker 1: reinforced to you, you know, through acts of policy, through
Speaker 1: your church, through your community. The whole idea around Pride
Speaker 1: was to take you from a place of being invisible
Speaker 1: to visibility, take you to a place where the world
Speaker 1: is telling you that you should be ashamed of who
Speaker 1: you are, of who you love, of your humanity right,
Speaker 1: that you are an embarrassment and an abomination. You know,
Speaker 1: the other day I said that there was a self
Speaker 1: proclaimed Christian fascist mob that rolled up on a gay
Speaker 1: bar in the gay neighborhood of Dallas, Texas, and that
Speaker 1: one of those disgusting house members, Lauren Bobert, you know,
Speaker 1: the one that wants to wheeld around her nine millimeter gun,
Speaker 1: had the audacity to tweet and say that those kids
Speaker 1: shouldn't be at a you know, be at a drag bar,
Speaker 1: be at pride celebrating with their families. They should be
Speaker 1: at church. Bitch. I don't know if you haven't seen
Speaker 1: what has happened to the church over the past twenty
Speaker 1: fucking years. You mean, all of the pedophilia and actual
Speaker 1: grooming that has been done at the hands of religious
Speaker 1: figures who were given children as a way to guide
Speaker 1: and love them and didn't. And then come to find
Speaker 1: out that Lauren Boubert's own fucking disgusting ass husband serve
Speaker 1: time in prison for what you ask, will let me
Speaker 1: tell you. Come to find out he exposed himself to
Speaker 1: a group of teenage girls at a bowling alley. Don't
Speaker 1: believe me, go ahead and google it. So what comes
Speaker 1: up for me is that these people who have the
Speaker 1: audacity to tell queer people that we should be ashamed,
Speaker 1: that we should be the ones that are kept away
Speaker 1: from civilized society because we are the ones that are
Speaker 1: harming children. Well, I want you to pull back the
Speaker 1: fucking cloak, right and look under what it is that
Speaker 1: these people actually stand for and who they stand with,
Speaker 1: like the Matt gates Is of the world right, like
Speaker 1: the Jeffrey Epsteins of the world Daily Coast has done.
Speaker 1: I think maybe now they're in their forty part series
Speaker 1: of sexual abusers, pedophiles and harassers that have been charged
Speaker 1: and convicted within the Republican Party. So I say all
Speaker 1: of that to say that we are at a time
Speaker 1: going back to a really dark time in our society
Speaker 1: where the LGBTQ community, particularly trans people, have been made
Speaker 1: a target of the right, and we are being forced
Speaker 1: during our Pride month and celebration to be worried about
Speaker 1: our safety, to be worried about whether or not our
Speaker 1: children are going to be able to be safe talking
Speaker 1: about their families, their community, in their schools, right. And
Speaker 1: so I have this love hate relationship with pride now
Speaker 1: once again because I see the commodification of it right
Speaker 1: without any of the integrity behind it. I see these
Speaker 1: corporations that are so quick to rainbow up their websites
Speaker 1: and you know, and their Twitter feeds and all of
Speaker 1: these things, but then they give money to the Lauren Beaubert's,
Speaker 1: the Donald Trump's and the Matt Gates is of the world.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, you can't have it both ways. So
Speaker 1: I would love it for all of us for pride
Speaker 1: to go back to a space where it originated from,
Speaker 1: which was there is the society at large that has
Speaker 1: deep problem with people owning who they are and challenging
Speaker 1: the fucking status quo. And because of that right, they
Speaker 1: are trying to force us back into the closet, to
Speaker 1: criminalize our very existence. And so this month, in speaking
Speaker 1: with so many bold, brilliant queer people, I just want
Speaker 1: to remind all of us, you know what pride is
Speaker 1: really about. And sure it is about the fucking glitter
Speaker 1: and the thongs and the music and the rainbows and
Speaker 1: the good time, because that is our way of saying
Speaker 1: fuck you to heteronormativity, of saying fuck you to those
Speaker 1: who tried to coerce us right into believing that there
Speaker 1: was something wrong with us. And so I want, as
Speaker 1: you know, we are seeing the continued commodification, the continued
Speaker 1: assault against the trans community in general, right that all
Speaker 1: of us, whether you are a part of the queer
Speaker 1: community or an ally, used this month as an opportunity
Speaker 1: to learn more right about our origins, to learn more
Speaker 1: about how you can be and active ally. And it
Speaker 1: doesn't just mean attending a Pride parade right or going
Speaker 1: to a Pride event. It means that we are under
Speaker 1: assault once again, that we are being placed with targets
Speaker 1: on our back, stuffed and put back into a closet.
Speaker 1: And so if you have a platform or in a
Speaker 1: position of power to offer your voice, then please, please,
Speaker 1: I urge you to do so. Coming up next, my
Speaker 1: conversation with my friend, activist model author Tiq Milan. The
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Speaker 1: I am very happy to be joined on woke af
Speaker 1: today by longtime friend, activist, speaker, writer all the amazing
Speaker 1: Things Tique Milan Tique. We you know, are living in
Speaker 1: extraordinary times. I don't even know some days where to
Speaker 1: start with the interviews that I'm doing, but I want
Speaker 1: to start with this. We know through the history of
Speaker 1: our community that Pride began as a riot. Pride was
Speaker 1: about black transwomen leading the charge to fight back against
Speaker 1: police brutality in New York at Stonewall. And since the
Speaker 1: inception of this fight of resistance, Pride has kind of
Speaker 1: become personalized. It has become a part of the capitalistic
Speaker 1: cog in the WHEELM what do you think about Pride
Speaker 1: now versus what Pride began as. Yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: love Pride, I really do. I love Pride Month. I
Speaker 1: love Pride Season. It's a great time for us to
Speaker 1: get together as a community and to celebrate, you know,
Speaker 1: how far we've come as as as as a community
Speaker 1: as people, right as LGBTQ people. Anyway, it did start
Speaker 1: off as a riot, and I think I think it
Speaker 1: has lost some of that edge. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: I really do love the celebratory spirit of pride, but
Speaker 1: what really kind of pisces me off is how can
Speaker 1: you get to exploit it all of the rainbows everywhere
Speaker 1: of companies who don't give a damn about LGBTQ, people
Speaker 1: who are not really invested in like diversifying their candidate pool,
Speaker 1: who are not interested in making sure you have an
Speaker 1: l LGBTQ people in positions of leadership and decision making positions,
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of displacating and just it's just
Speaker 1: turned into a product. Right, So that is kind of
Speaker 1: disheartening that would start off as a protest and as
Speaker 1: kind of like our freedom song, our our our cry
Speaker 1: for freedom and equality has turned into has been commodified
Speaker 1: and packaged in rainbows, and it's being sold back to us.
Speaker 1: But I think that is the nature of this country.
Speaker 1: This is what we do, you know, and you know
Speaker 1: that we see the for Juneteenth, we saw with you know,
Speaker 1: Black Lives Cream Girl, and and they have place that
Speaker 1: said it's the freedom for me girl, whose ideas that
Speaker 1: you know, there are no black people in the room
Speaker 1: where they decided to do that. Right, So this is
Speaker 1: kind of disheartened to see that that's happening with that
Speaker 1: that has happened with Pride. It's going to continue to happen.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, so with that being said,
Speaker 1: so then what so then what do we do? So?
Speaker 1: I think for those of us like you and me,
Speaker 1: who are considered leaders in in you know, in our communities,
Speaker 1: how can we leverage those privileges that we have, How
Speaker 1: can we leverage our influence, in our power and our
Speaker 1: leadership capabilities to make sure people don't forget that this
Speaker 1: startoff has a fight, that this was a riot. So
Speaker 1: we could celebrate, okay, but go ahead throw those punches
Speaker 1: with a smile on your factually throw those punches, you know. So,
Speaker 1: I think it's up to us as leaders in the
Speaker 1: community to make sure that we don't forget where we
Speaker 1: came from as as as a Pride community, and also
Speaker 1: to lay out some better blueprints for the future of Pride.
Speaker 1: When you see tiak all of the policy attacks that
Speaker 1: are particularly being waged against trans youth in this country
Speaker 1: in places like Florida and Texas and Tennessee and Oklahoma
Speaker 1: and Mississippi, right, It's happening across the country. Yeah. Do
Speaker 1: you think that this, unlike with marriage equality, which was
Speaker 1: its own fight, do you think that these attacks, particularly
Speaker 1: around don't stay gay right, trans kids can't participate in sports?
Speaker 1: Do you think that this will be the galvanizing force
Speaker 1: or forces to get us back to the roots of
Speaker 1: what pride was about our resistance or have we just
Speaker 1: become too comfortable and complacent. I think we've become too
Speaker 1: comfortable and complacent. I'm really it's I'm really scared about this,
Speaker 1: all this legislation that's happening right now, particularly you have
Speaker 1: like Roe v. Wade actually being on the chopping block,
Speaker 1: and this the prescedent that that can set, and how
Speaker 1: that's going to trickle down and then not for nothing,
Speaker 1: even if the Supreme Court doesn't Even if if the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court doesn't make these bad decisions, these the states
Speaker 1: are already empowered to take away people's rights. And I
Speaker 1: think people are really complacent, And I think there are
Speaker 1: too many people in the queer community who are not
Speaker 1: invested in the lives of trans people, particularly that of
Speaker 1: black and brown trans people. Because they got their marriage equality,
Speaker 1: they got their house alt of Fire Island and they're
Speaker 1: having a good time. Um, and you know, and I
Speaker 1: think what we have to understand it has to be
Speaker 1: all of us or none of us. And the thing
Speaker 1: that really that's that's like that's really frustrating about it
Speaker 1: is that people can be people who are gatekeeping in
Speaker 1: these organizations who are not necessarily who aren't really doing
Speaker 1: the hard work and the nuanced work that needs to happen.
Speaker 1: And that's why I implore people that are who are
Speaker 1: allied that if they're going to donate time and resources,
Speaker 1: donate your resources to grassroots organizations like I love the
Speaker 1: Human Rights curR of Paign, and I love Glad, and
Speaker 1: I love all these organizations that are doing this, but
Speaker 1: they sucking in millions and millions of dollars and are
Speaker 1: just on the surface. We have other organizations like the
Speaker 1: Marster P. Johnson Project and Anti Violence Project who are
Speaker 1: really like doing like groundwork, and those are the people
Speaker 1: who need are funding and those are the people who
Speaker 1: we really need to be listening to. But I think
Speaker 1: just a lot of people are just really comfortable where
Speaker 1: they're all where they are and are really comfortable with
Speaker 1: like turning away from it. Turning away from it and
Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, retweeting or you know, hashtagging or
Speaker 1: whatever and calling that solidarity when it's just like performance.
Speaker 1: Nobody's really ready to get their hands dirty, and it
Speaker 1: feels like folks aren't really ready to get uncomfortable. And
Speaker 1: the only people that are really doing it is us.
Speaker 1: It's the black trans folks who are out here doing it,
Speaker 1: in the black queer folks who are out here doing it.
Speaker 1: I'm tired, really, you know. It's it is really interesting
Speaker 1: because I've been thinking about this a lot, which is
Speaker 1: the fact that I don't think that within the LGBTQ community,
Speaker 1: we've done a really good job of continuing to embrace
Speaker 1: and the trans part of the community. I think that
Speaker 1: these attacks are able to be waged at a statewide level,
Speaker 1: at a national level because the trans community is low
Speaker 1: hanging fruit. Oh yea, because we and so what do
Speaker 1: you where do you see the breakdown is that we
Speaker 1: have had amongst ourselves that has allowed this kind of
Speaker 1: set up to be what it is right now? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean, how have we allowed this
Speaker 1: to happen? Again? I think that folks are not necessarily
Speaker 1: putting all the resources in time, to the organizations and
Speaker 1: to the people who can really speak to this issue. Right.
Speaker 1: But I also think it's it's bigger than the queer community,
Speaker 1: because what's happening is this is sault on trans bodies.
Speaker 1: Is because it's because we exist, transgender people, us being
Speaker 1: self determined in our gender and us saying that we can.
Speaker 1: We're gonna live the way we want. We're gonna look
Speaker 1: the way we want, despite what gender we're assigned with,
Speaker 1: despite what our body parts are, despite how people say
Speaker 1: masculine and femininity, if feminite supposed to look in the world,
Speaker 1: when we do that, we are kind of just turning
Speaker 1: patriarchy on its head. Makes the United makes America America?
Speaker 1: Is it's patriarchy, which gives all of these old white
Speaker 1: men all of their power. Is patriarchy, right, And so
Speaker 1: what we are doing just by existing, we are we
Speaker 1: are dismantling the patriarchy, just by existing in our skin,
Speaker 1: and they can't take it. And that is something that's
Speaker 1: bigger than the community. So it's not even it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily just about the LGBTQ. This is an assault on
Speaker 1: gender and trying to tell people, trying to legislate us
Speaker 1: out of existence in order to hold on to this
Speaker 1: like heteronormative nuclear family, this very white, absist kind of life,
Speaker 1: and that's in us being in the world is saying
Speaker 1: that that's not it, Like that can be some people's lives,
Speaker 1: but it's not all of us. We really complicate the
Speaker 1: human experience to the point where people just can't take it.
Speaker 1: They can't take us because the thing is is that
Speaker 1: you have people in power, and the only reason that
Speaker 1: they are in powers because they're standing on the next
Speaker 1: of us. The only reason people are in power because
Speaker 1: they create this binary system of gender, these binary systems
Speaker 1: of sexuality that are just power structures. These are made
Speaker 1: up power structures, and we are chipping away at that
Speaker 1: power structure and they would rather kill us than lose power.
Speaker 1: That's what's happened. So I think it's bigger than just
Speaker 1: the LGBT community. This is about This is about this country.
Speaker 1: This is about just the power structures or the performance
Speaker 1: and the performance of gender and what that looks like.
Speaker 1: This is about talking about gender in a different way
Speaker 1: and understated that gender is something that is self determined,
Speaker 1: it's something that's not imposed. And I think if more
Speaker 1: people understood that, I think the world would be a
Speaker 1: better place. You know well understood that. It's you know,
Speaker 1: the more people are that are understanding it, it's getting
Speaker 1: really scary for those who don't. You know, I want
Speaker 1: to dig into what you just said here because I
Speaker 1: think that it was present in just the right way.
Speaker 1: That gender is something that is not imposed, that you
Speaker 1: don't impose your will on other people. And so when
Speaker 1: we think about what we were taught and how we
Speaker 1: were how we were subscribed to heteronormativity and to cist culture,
Speaker 1: it is through this idea that men do this and
Speaker 1: women do this. The biggest pushback that we hear from
Speaker 1: the opposition, and I don't even want to call them
Speaker 1: the opposition, because these people are truly evil. It isn't
Speaker 1: just it isn't just like an opposition we have a
Speaker 1: difference of opinion. You literally are trying to kill us.
Speaker 1: So the thing that I want to say is that
Speaker 1: the common refrain is that they don't want people just
Speaker 1: doing whatever they want, right, that the desire here is
Speaker 1: about it is about control. So can you connect the
Speaker 1: dots for folks as to why if they are concerned
Speaker 1: about Roe V. Wade which they should be because it's dead.
Speaker 1: Why they should also be concerned about the pushback and
Speaker 1: the assault on trans people and trans bodies and trans
Speaker 1: lives because there is a connection there, because it's about power,
Speaker 1: that's right, It's about power. The assault on trans lies
Speaker 1: is a stepping stone to an assault on CIS lives.
Speaker 1: So as all of us are none of us like this.
Speaker 1: They know folks are our play and are playing chests
Speaker 1: and other people are playing fucking Candyland. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like when they're assaulting trans people and this
Speaker 1: is they're dismantling these rights as a way of controlling people,
Speaker 1: particularly controlling women's bodies, as a way of creating more
Speaker 1: power for men, and absolutely destroying and legislating trans people
Speaker 1: out of existence. So all these things are happened with
Speaker 1: trans people before we got you know, before somebody's built
Speaker 1: the tea about Roe v. Wade. It was leading up
Speaker 1: to that, so they're setting a precedent. You know, this
Speaker 1: is this is very scary stuff that's happening, and people
Speaker 1: have to be able to connect those dots. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Well, we all have to be fighting for
Speaker 1: for for one another because if because one day they're
Speaker 1: gonna come for you, the next day they're gonna come
Speaker 1: for me. They're going to come for all of us
Speaker 1: in order to keep power. So I think it's really
Speaker 1: important for people to really be if they're involved with
Speaker 1: what's going on with Roe v. Wade and are fighting
Speaker 1: for that. They have to be fighting for the lives
Speaker 1: of trains people. You have to be fighting for the
Speaker 1: lives of black people, right this is about And that's
Speaker 1: the thing, like change really happens when you start with
Speaker 1: the needs of the people on the margins quote margins.
Speaker 1: We start to get the needs of the people on
Speaker 1: the margins, and you start to feel that up it
Speaker 1: is going to trickle in. It's going to help all
Speaker 1: of us. And I don't think that people understanding, even
Speaker 1: like people who are organizing don't understand that people in
Speaker 1: our government don't understand that it's really important to start
Speaker 1: looking at what's happening in the trans community, what's happening
Speaker 1: with black people, Listen to us fill these voids, see
Speaker 1: what our nuanced needs are, and rest assure the culture
Speaker 1: is going to elevate for everybody else. But people are
Speaker 1: always starting at the center of the power and it
Speaker 1: doesn't work like that because the power structure is just
Speaker 1: going to keep just calling in everything to stay in power,
Speaker 1: whereas folks who are on the margins, we're staying listen.
Speaker 1: We are talking about how we can make things equitable quity. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that is like what is needed for all of us,
Speaker 1: that we could all have an equal playing field. And
Speaker 1: we are the ones that people need to be listening to,
Speaker 1: but they're not, you know. And that's and that's the
Speaker 1: connection here. And I don't think that people are necessarily
Speaker 1: making you know, you have been able to both live
Speaker 1: in the United States and outside of the United States,
Speaker 1: and I want to get just your your your perspective
Speaker 1: on what you have been able to see in other
Speaker 1: places and the acceptance or lack thereof of trans people,
Speaker 1: what we could potentially learn or not And are you
Speaker 1: thinking this is a question that I'm asking in this
Speaker 1: these interview series about leaving. I am definitely thinking about living.
Speaker 1: I was just talking to my daughter's mother about that yesterday.
Speaker 1: I was just in Coasta Rica for three weeks. That's
Speaker 1: a month in Coasta Rica. A few a few years ago.
Speaker 1: I was just down there recently thinking about buying some
Speaker 1: property down there. Um, and my ex wife and my
Speaker 1: daughter just moved down to Texas, which is really scary
Speaker 1: from Toronto. Yeah, so they're in Dallas now. So but
Speaker 1: when I was in Toronto and we were going through
Speaker 1: our divorce and we you know, it was it was
Speaker 1: a pretty like nasty, customy battle. But we're here now. Um,
Speaker 1: I was really terrified that my transition is going to
Speaker 1: be weaponized and they were gonna try to take my
Speaker 1: child away from me, right. But but the courts in
Speaker 1: Ontario and in Canada, they say they don't play that
Speaker 1: at all. It was like, we do not do that here.
Speaker 1: You'd be a trans has absolutely nothing to do with
Speaker 1: your ability to be a father, like they like they
Speaker 1: shut that down before I can even really get into it,
Speaker 1: you know. And I really really respected that about how
Speaker 1: they were legislating around with with trans folks and living
Speaker 1: in Canada, It's just it is very different. It's very different.
Speaker 1: It's not there. There isn't like this vicious, aggressive attack
Speaker 1: against transfolks. I mean, you're gonna have people who are transphobic.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, when I was in Canada,
Speaker 1: the Canadian government, um, really had a better understanding of
Speaker 1: the humanity of trans folks. There's tons of tons of
Speaker 1: resources there, um and and and this is the thing
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people, particularly black folks, we
Speaker 1: need to start getting out of the United States. This
Speaker 1: idea that the United States is the only place for
Speaker 1: us is bullshit. This idea of the United States is exceptional.
Speaker 1: That's a bunch of bullshit. I was just down in
Speaker 1: I was just start of Costa Rica, and I had
Speaker 1: a and I had an injury. You know, I got
Speaker 1: an X ray for sixty dollars. Maybe get X ray
Speaker 1: United States would cost some one hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
Speaker 1: Like this, This country, ain't it right? They're they're they're
Speaker 1: like playing in our faces right now. And I think
Speaker 1: it's really important for us to kind of just on
Speaker 1: a global scale, be looking at where are the other
Speaker 1: places that we can go and stop believing it's like
Speaker 1: drinking the kool aid that there are no other places
Speaker 1: on this planet for lgbt to Q people or black
Speaker 1: queer people, because there are. I was just in Costa Rica.
Speaker 1: It's tons of queer people there. It's it's just it's nothing.
Speaker 1: We're just living. It's just it's the powers in the
Speaker 1: United States, and it's not The thing is the United
Speaker 1: States in the in the in the form that it
Speaker 1: is and where it's going is not sustainable. And it
Speaker 1: does work. Two years father, I have a four year
Speaker 1: old daughter. What it's going to be of this country
Speaker 1: in thirty years when she's thirty four years old? What's
Speaker 1: going to be here for my baby? Like, I don't know?
Speaker 1: And it, you know, it's one of the things that
Speaker 1: can keep me up at night. You know, I want
Speaker 1: to switch gears because you have done and you continue
Speaker 1: to do a lot of work on unpacking masculinity right,
Speaker 1: understanding masculinity in both its value but also in its toxicity.
Speaker 1: And I want to get your thoughts on what we
Speaker 1: have seen or how I particularly Fox News and Tucker
Speaker 1: Carl Simon have been weaponizing masculinity with these very fragile
Speaker 1: white sith men, straight men who you know, believe that
Speaker 1: testosterone levels are going down. And this is why I
Speaker 1: need an a R fifteen And I got to tan
Speaker 1: my balls and I got to do I mean, this
Speaker 1: is actual like actual things documentary documentary. I use that
Speaker 1: with air quotes that they have done and it's all
Speaker 1: wrapped around this idea of replacement right and the idea
Speaker 1: of the low birth rate. And so I want to
Speaker 1: get your sense of how all of this is being
Speaker 1: used and discussed. So you want to get I'm sorry
Speaker 1: you went out a little bit. You said, you want
Speaker 1: to get my sense of what now of how masculinity
Speaker 1: is being talked about and how toxic masculinity seems to
Speaker 1: be running rampant on these networks like Fox News and
Speaker 1: with Tucker Carl sim Yeah, but it's desperate. Is this
Speaker 1: looks so desperate. It's a desperate power grab. And here's
Speaker 1: the thing. When I talk about masculinity, always talk about
Speaker 1: an organic masculinity, a masculinity that is tethered to your spirit.
Speaker 1: And what how masculinity has been defined is you are
Speaker 1: a man because you are not a woman. You are
Speaker 1: masculine because you're not feminine. You are a man because
Speaker 1: of who you can't control, because of who you have
Speaker 1: power over, because of who you're competing with. But when
Speaker 1: you take away all of that, what is left of you?
Speaker 1: And that's that's what's happening. Women are taking work with
Speaker 1: women saying I don't need to heterosexual women, particularly, I
Speaker 1: don't need to be married, married marriage is is a skim.
Speaker 1: I don't need to be married. I don't need a man.
Speaker 1: I could do all these things on my own. So
Speaker 1: men are like, oh, these you know the insults, like
Speaker 1: oh these women they so independent? Then don't you know that?
Speaker 1: Like like marriage is like marriage is the prize and
Speaker 1: a lot of women are saying, no, it's not. And
Speaker 1: these men don't know what to do, and they become
Speaker 1: and they become repressed and become zetful, they become angry,
Speaker 1: and they become violent. It is because the only way
Speaker 1: they have ever been able to define themselves is in
Speaker 1: relation to everything they can control and what happens. We
Speaker 1: have more people who are self determined in their gender
Speaker 1: and self determined in their life and take control over it.
Speaker 1: That takes away control from them, there by taking away
Speaker 1: their personhood because their humanity is based on control. And
Speaker 1: that's the thing. And it's like men need to do
Speaker 1: some soul searching, like just take this, take all of
Speaker 1: that away, and just look inside yourself and define yourself
Speaker 1: for yourself and for me, I think this is another thing.
Speaker 1: I think being a healthy man for me when I
Speaker 1: realize as a trans person, I was looking for all
Speaker 1: of these I was looking for heterosexual men to tell
Speaker 1: me how to be a man. Yeah too. I was
Speaker 1: drinking the kool aid, and I was like, the way
Speaker 1: these they I don't like this, like nothing the job.
Speaker 1: And I had to really check myself and say, take
Speaker 1: you know, you forty years old, you've been in queer
Speaker 1: community of fourteen. I was raised by butches, stone butches,
Speaker 1: gay men in these communities, right, So like I got
Speaker 1: my You know, I think I'm a good man. I
Speaker 1: think I have a healthy masculinity. But my healthy masculinity
Speaker 1: came from the blueprints that came from masculine women, and
Speaker 1: that came from gay men and came from the queer community.
Speaker 1: Watching how we did masculinity, you know, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Watching watching gay men love their their platonic friends,
Speaker 1: watching people and if their own emotions, you know, Watching
Speaker 1: watching butch women like they stand up and be nurturing
Speaker 1: and take care of their families. AMBI providers and biing protectors.
Speaker 1: Like I learned masculinity from from these folks here, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think, and I think that that's important to
Speaker 1: look at different modes masculinity, looking at different ways in
Speaker 1: which it can exist. Because I think that heterosexual, heteronormative
Speaker 1: sister or masculinity. I think it's sociopathic. I think it's toxic.
Speaker 1: I think it's tell me, come on, sick, I really do.
Speaker 1: There's a sickness there and I and it's and it's
Speaker 1: just so bizarre. It's just so bizarre, you know, And
Speaker 1: it's just I don't know. But that's but that's the thing.
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to start to define masculinity
Speaker 1: outside of what we can't control. Men need to do that.
Speaker 1: But then also, but the thing is the flip side
Speaker 1: of that. In order to do that means you have
Speaker 1: to be vulnerable. But here's the thing. What are ment taught? Mentaught?
Speaker 1: Men are taught to be vulnerable. It's just a weak
Speaker 1: and to be feminine exactly. So you can't. But the
Speaker 1: thing is is that's a bunch of bullshit because actually
Speaker 1: vulnerability is the other side of courage. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: a bravery. You gotta be vulnerable enough. So you have
Speaker 1: to be courageous enough to be vulnerable. You gotta be
Speaker 1: vulnerable enough to be brave. They're saying, like, you can't.
Speaker 1: These men, they can't win, they can't win. Last question,
Speaker 1: for utake. We are in the midst of a culture
Speaker 1: and political breakdown. Do you believe that there is an
Speaker 1: opportunity for a breakthrough or this is just going to
Speaker 1: be a breakdown and the pieces are gonna fall, the
Speaker 1: people are gonna fall, and from that dust something else
Speaker 1: will come. You know, I don't want to be a
Speaker 1: Debbi downer, but I just don't. I don't see you know,
Speaker 1: a breakthrough. If a breakthro's gonna happen, it's going to
Speaker 1: happen after something really really bad happens, like you know,
Speaker 1: like like this country is hard headed. You know, you
Speaker 1: gotta really feel it, you know what I'm saying, So
Speaker 1: something bad is going to have to happen, like worse
Speaker 1: than what's happening now. I'm like, what is where? I'm like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing? Something bad it's about to happen.
Speaker 1: We've had three mass shootings in three fucking weeks and
Speaker 1: people still like people still. I want to get the
Speaker 1: air of fifteen, Like it doesn't like this. It's just
Speaker 1: like common sense, it's not that common and it's really
Speaker 1: scary when when we don't have common sense legislation in
Speaker 1: this country, where are we going here? You know? And
Speaker 1: then and I was just reading this article to day
Speaker 1: about how the sentis in Florida has like just jerry
Speaker 1: mandering and re move things around to disenfranchise black voters.
Speaker 1: This is just is happening all over like it's where
Speaker 1: this the country is on the slippery slope downward now.
Speaker 1: Even read an article and they said the United States,
Speaker 1: there's a I guess there's an index where they rank
Speaker 1: all of the countries, and I think it's the healthy democrats.
Speaker 1: See it's the first time that we're not healthy, where
Speaker 1: we're actually a backsliding democracy exactly. And it's it's we're
Speaker 1: going downhill and this is going to go faster and
Speaker 1: faster because people aren't really to do ready to do
Speaker 1: the vulnerable or courageous work. And people want to hold
Speaker 1: onto power. And if that means and if the few people,
Speaker 1: a few of them will hold onto the power at
Speaker 1: the expense of the rest of us. Yeah, And that's
Speaker 1: just it like it is in our culture, Like it's
Speaker 1: not I think it's even like passive legislation. But this
Speaker 1: is like in our culture. And I don't know what
Speaker 1: kind of breakthrough we need. I know, I think you
Speaker 1: know what I think I think black folks, I think
Speaker 1: we just need to lead. Yeah, I mean, in all honesty,
Speaker 1: this is the consistent refrain that I'm hearing from black
Speaker 1: queer people, that I'm hearing from black straight people, that
Speaker 1: I'm hearing from those that occupy different identities, marginalized identities,
Speaker 1: are getting to the point where they're just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm starting to do my research, figure out where I
Speaker 1: can go, what kind of work I can do. If
Speaker 1: we can all be remote, then I don't need to
Speaker 1: be here, right Like, And so it's like, so that's
Speaker 1: the thing. It's like, if I can be remote and
Speaker 1: I'm still pulling in a salary, I don't need to
Speaker 1: live in violence, I don't need to live in fear,
Speaker 1: And so what does that look like? And where can
Speaker 1: I go? That's right, when you have the means, And
Speaker 1: that's the thing, And that's privilege. Like having option is
Speaker 1: a privilege, right, and so I think it's important if
Speaker 1: we have options, then take and then take advantage of
Speaker 1: those options. I know it's black lesbian couple that just
Speaker 1: built a house in Mexico. They're out, They're gone. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I'm looking at buy a property
Speaker 1: in Costa Ricos just talking to somebody other day, cheap,
Speaker 1: I'm out, Like it's yeah, if you can, if you
Speaker 1: can leave, and then think about the ways in which
Speaker 1: you could be in solidarity with those that that that can't.
Speaker 1: And I think that's saying that, you know, just leave.
Speaker 1: I know that feels big and it could be like
Speaker 1: hyperbolic for some people. It may if it seems doesn't
Speaker 1: even seem like feasible. But that's because we have been
Speaker 1: taught that this is our only option. But I think
Speaker 1: people are realizing that we have other options. We have
Speaker 1: the freedom of movement. If you have freedom of movement,
Speaker 1: I employ you see the world, get your passport, see
Speaker 1: the world. See if there's another place where you can
Speaker 1: live a good and healthy life, like even like health,
Speaker 1: like like our souls here are conscious, Like it's so
Speaker 1: much anxiety, Like I'm anxious. I started going in therapy
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty because I was like, I don't know
Speaker 1: what the fuck is going on? You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: Like this is like it's it's a it's a toxic
Speaker 1: to our physical health, our spiritual and mental health. And
Speaker 1: if you can get out of here for a little bit,
Speaker 1: if you can you're working well, even take a month
Speaker 1: and get away to come back, but just do something.
Speaker 1: But this, this is not it. This is not the
Speaker 1: only place for us. There's there's we belong anywhere in
Speaker 1: the world. But we are gonna be treated as human
Speaker 1: beings and are going to be under under a government
Speaker 1: that is democratic and it actually cares about the needs
Speaker 1: of the people. Miss is to the people in the
Speaker 1: United States? Is not that? Take Milan. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for making the time to join will Gate after.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you your voice, your activism, your power, and
Speaker 1: your truth always so good to Daniel. Good to see you, honey.
Speaker 1: Hey there, I want to tell you about another podcast
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Speaker 1: on Woke app as always, Power to the people and
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