1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name 3 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 2: is Robert Lamb. 4 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 3: And I am Joe McCormick, and we're back with part 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 3: two in our twenty twenty six crab Bag series. By 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 3: somewhat popular demand, we are we're doing a sort of 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 3: roundup or maybe a pinch up of crab related subject matter. 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 3: This was in part inspired by a listener male that 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 3: we talked about in our most recent listener Mail episode. 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 3: And we're always down to talk about some crab stuff. 11 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 3: No real organizing principle here, it's just yah assortment of 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 3: crab topics, a crab buffet. So in the last episode 13 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,279 Speaker 3: we talked about the legend of a miraculous crab associated 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 3: with a Catholic figure named Saint Francis Xavier, and how 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 3: that legend sort of connects to a real decapod species 16 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 3: in the Western Pacific and Indian oceans. We might revisit 17 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 3: that topic today. I'll explain more about that later. And 18 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 3: then also at the end of the last episode, we 19 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 3: talked about an idea known as crab theory or maybe 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 3: under various names, but that's one way to refer to it. 21 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 3: It's a metaphor for chaotic, anti cooperative human behaviors in 22 00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 3: certain situations, based on the supposed behavior of crabs in 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 3: a bucket. And we briefly got into the question of 24 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 3: to what extent crabs ever could be said to be 25 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 3: socially cooperative, And we're back today to talk about more. 26 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: That's right. So for my own part for this episode, 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: I kind of poked around and I wanted to find 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 2: something to talk about that's tied directly to some crab species. 29 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: But then also I have some stuff that we'll get 30 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: into later that involves some crab folklore and indeed like 31 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: a crab demon or crab spece from a particular tradition. 32 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: But first, yeah, let's talk about frog crabs. So, listeners, 33 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: do you like to dance like a crab? Have you 34 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 2: ever danced like a crap? I hope that you have. 35 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 2: I hope that you can. I hope that you're doing 36 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 2: it right now. Perhaps scuttling side to side on wide legs, 37 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: arms out to either side with fingers or hands you 38 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: can sort of choose forming the clacking makeshift pinchers, or 39 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 2: perhaps you prefer to do a kind of crab walk 40 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: that it's in the sense that you might encounter this 41 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: in an exercise class or an exercise routine where you 42 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 2: move around on all fours and kind of a reverse 43 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: tabletop pose, so belly up, all four limbs on the 44 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 2: ground walking side to side do I think sometimes people 45 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: do the crab walk back and forth as well. 46 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 3: All of the above very popular with my three year old. 47 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: In fact, for a while, part of our standard bedtime 48 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 3: routine was that I had to do a crab dance, 49 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 3: so like she would demand a crab data performance before 50 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 3: she would go to bed, and it was really funny 51 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 3: for a while, and then I guess the gag wore out. 52 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. I have observed that kids can really do the 53 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: all fours reverse tabletop crab walk like nobody's business. They 54 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 2: can really get down there and do it. There also 55 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 2: seems to be a standing crab walk exercise that entails 56 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 2: side to side movement, but with like banded thighs. I 57 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 2: don't know if you've encountered this one. You can find 58 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: videos and image of this online. 59 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 3: This is like a like an exercise or it's. 60 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: A yeah, it looks like it's popping up in exercise 61 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: videos and exercise routine where there's some sort of a 62 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: band that is placed around a human's thighs and then 63 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: they move side. 64 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 3: To side the thigh master crab method. 65 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it seems to be the case. 66 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 3: Okay. 67 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: I always think of when I think of crabs moving 68 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: side to side, I think of Zoidberg from Futurama. I 69 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 2: also think of a particular Japanese rest slur by the 70 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: name of Grand Naniwa, who he's passed now, but for 71 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: a while he was like a comedy wrestler with a 72 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: crab like mask, and one of his signature moves was 73 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: to move side to side whilst making little pinchers with 74 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: his fingers and then doing an elbow drop off the ropes. 75 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: I actually looked this up. So he's he's not only 76 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 3: walking side by side and pin doing this, but he's 77 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 3: doing it on the rope between the what do you 78 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 3: call it the turnstile the turn turnbules. 79 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 80 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, So he's going back and forth on the rope, 81 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 3: I guess, preparing to jump and do the elbow drop, right. 82 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, powering up, summoning the power of the crab. I 83 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,159 Speaker 2: don't know how many winds he picked up with this 84 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 2: particular maneuver, but it was it was funny to watch. 85 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 3: I found it quite admirable. 86 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and great mass for sure. So you know, generally, 87 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 2: but not always, when we engage in human crab antics, Yeah, 88 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: we're gonna move side to side lateral movement, because that's 89 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: how a great many crabs move around on land. If 90 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 2: you're out walking on the beach or on the pier 91 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: and you're looking at sand crabs or rock crabs and 92 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: you're watching them, you know, secretly move about, you're probably 93 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 2: watching this rapid side stepping action. This is what they're 94 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 2: known for. And indeed, true crab anatomy is just optimized 95 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: in general for side stepping. They can do rapid changes 96 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 2: in direction. If you've ever tried to chase a crab 97 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: on the beach, you've found this out. They can easily 98 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 2: stop going one way and start going the other way. 99 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: And I don't know, at least for humans, I've found 100 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 2: that it tends to send a message as well, like 101 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: the crab is saying I'm looking right at you, my 102 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: claws are out, but I'm moving away from you latterly. 103 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 3: At least, you know, I think a lot of gamers 104 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 3: might appreciate the metaphor of I don't know a strayfing, 105 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 3: but whatever it is, it's some kind of like a 106 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 3: fighting game or first person shooter. You're moving sideways really 107 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 3: fast to try to confuse your enemy, but you always 108 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: want to be facing them, and I guess have the 109 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 3: same idea. 110 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm suddenly I didn't have this in my notes, 111 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: but I'm reminded now. I think I saw this movie, 112 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 2: or at least I remember seeing trailers for it. But 113 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 2: there was a two thousand and six Japanese monster movie 114 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 2: slash sports comedy titled Crab Goalkeeper, in which like a 115 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 2: football or soccer goalkeeper is like a giant or at 116 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: least man sized crab monster. Yes, because you know that, 117 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: of course, isn't the optimal situation for somebody with phenomenal 118 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 2: lateral movement. 119 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 3: That's brilliant. I love it now. 120 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 2: In general, it's worth knowing that that side to side 121 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 2: movements of crabs, this is something that evolves as crabs 122 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 2: leave behind their more lobster like evolutionary origins, and there 123 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 2: are a number of little explainer articles online about this. 124 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 2: Matt Slater has one for BBC's Discovered Wildlife in twenty 125 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 2: twenty four. You know, look that up if you want 126 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: some more information about it. But basically, like a lobster 127 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: like form is only going to be able to more 128 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: expressly move forward, its tail is going to get in 129 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 2: the way. And so as it as these organisms took 130 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: on their full crab like form, most of them end 131 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: up having this lateral movement ability. 132 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah, so it's a change that occurs from 133 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 3: the more lobster morph to the crab morph. 134 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, and and it gets it gets a little 135 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 2: more complicated than that. We'll come back to some examples why. 136 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 2: But like one extreme example would be the Japanese spider crab. 137 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: I think everyone's seen one of these, you've releast seen pictures, 138 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: but they also pop up in aquariums. They really almost 139 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: don't look real. 140 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 3: Big long, spindly legs compared to the body. 141 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, the largest crabs, and they move quite slow in 142 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: you know, deep environments, and they can move side to 143 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 2: side certainly, and I believe side to side movement is 144 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: maybe a little bit faster. But they all also move front 145 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 2: to back. So you know, car is subject to change 146 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 2: with evolution if new matters come to light. Plus, as 147 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 2: we've touched on before. Not all crabs are true crabs. 148 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: The hermit crab, of course, is a great example. We've 149 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 2: talked about this before. If you watch them on the beach, 150 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: you know they're going to do a lot of forward 151 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: momentum movements on the beach. You know, they have the 152 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: ability to move around in other directions as well, but 153 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: they're full speed ahead for the most part. 154 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. And when it comes to movement, the hermit crabs 155 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 3: have a whole other thing to contact with. You know, 156 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 3: they are moving hardware. 157 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. So most true crabs are going to generally be 158 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 2: lateral movers with bodies that are wider than they are long. 159 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 2: But we do find some exceptions out there, and one 160 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 2: of the main exceptions is that of the frog crabs, 161 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 2: also known as the spanner crabs because their claws look 162 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: a bit like wrenches or spanners. 163 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 3: I can see it. Yes, So these are crabs. 164 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 2: In the Rannini day family, with Ranina Ranina being the 165 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: best example of this crab variety. This is not to 166 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: be confused with the crab eating frog. This is a 167 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:15,720 Speaker 2: frog crab, so named because I guess they kind of 168 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 2: look like frogs when if you find an image of 169 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: one just like a top down image. I don't know, 170 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,840 Speaker 2: it's harder to get that sense of a frog. Basically, 171 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: these guys are squatter, They're not wide, They're narrower and 172 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: longer while still being you know, bulky. They have paddle 173 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,920 Speaker 2: like limbs, and as Jeff Heck pointed out in a 174 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen article for New Scientists titled the Tasty Crab 175 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 2: that looks like an Ugly frog, they sometimes assume frog 176 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: like poses. And I think this is where the frogness 177 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: of the thing comes into play. If you look up 178 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 2: an image of one of some of these creatures, look 179 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 2: for the images that are not like top down like 180 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 2: specimen shots, and more like the ones setting around on 181 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 2: a rock, and you can see, all right, they have 182 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 2: kind of they can take on this kind of squat 183 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: almost mammalion pose. 184 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 3: I absolutely see it now. So you've got in the 185 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 3: outline here one image of a side on image of 186 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 3: one of these things sitting up against a rock, and 187 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 3: it looks very much like a frog. It's kind of 188 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 3: squatting on its back legs. It's got the front legs 189 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 3: out like you might see a front you know, frog's 190 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 3: front legs, the long ones pushing it up in the 191 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 3: sitting posture, and then even on the underside of its 192 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 3: body there is a paler section than the rest of 193 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 3: its body, kind of like you often see the paler 194 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: underside of a frog's throat. 195 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, so they're they're pretty neat looking. I 196 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 2: should note that their spanner like claws are not as 197 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 2: powerful as that name might imply. So. The crab's limbs 198 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: in general are evolved for superior burling, which they do backwards, 199 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 2: and the front pinchers are mainly for gripping the sandy bottom. 200 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 2: They also use them for a grasping soft prey. Generally 201 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: they're scavengers, come out to scavenge things that have fallen down, 202 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 2: but they will also sometimes grab, you know, small marine 203 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 2: organisms that they can. They're they're good swimmers. But when 204 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 2: they're walking about, when they're walking on the on the 205 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,960 Speaker 2: seafloor or on the sand uh I have read that 206 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 2: they cannot walk sideways. I'm always hesitant to be too 207 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 2: absolute in those kind of rulings because it's kind of 208 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 2: like saying dogs can't look up right. But generally speaking, 209 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 2: their body is positioned in such a way that they 210 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,680 Speaker 2: are they are front back movers, as opposed to lateral movers, 211 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: and we see that in just their basic morphology. Now 212 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 2: we mentioned already the lobster origins of crabs, and apparently 213 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: for a long time naturalist thought that frog crabs were 214 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 2: therefore a more primitive form of the crab, kind of 215 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: a missing link between lobster and crab. But now we 216 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 2: know that this is not the case. So these frog 217 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: crabs evolved and estimated one hundred and twenty five million 218 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: years ago, with their bodies and movements adapting for this 219 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: burrowing behavior. They burrow in the ocean floor sediment as 220 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 2: a place of refuge, and again they emerge at night 221 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 2: to scavenge and sometimes use that hiding place as kind 222 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 2: of a you know, a trap from which to snatch 223 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: small marine animals and eat them. 224 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 3: Okay, but it's not like all modern crabs were descended 225 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 3: from a frog crab like ancestor. 226 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, It's more like they went back. 227 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: They're like, actually, the something more lobster would be in 228 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: keeping with what we want to do with our lives. Interestingly, 229 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 2: while frog crabs are now limited to certain tropical and 230 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 2: subtropical environments, they were once quite plentiful across Earth's oceans, 231 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 2: especially during times of low marine oxygen levels, and the 232 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: general theory here seems to be that conditions these conditions 233 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 2: might have been better for them because they might have 234 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 2: been predisposed for low oxygen environments because of adaptations they 235 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: had for living in burrows and spending a lot of 236 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: time beneath the sediment. 237 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 3: This is interesting because it's I think the second example 238 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 3: we've looked at in just a few days of lineages 239 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 3: of animals that are thought to have survived harsh conditions 240 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 3: or mass extinction events because they were burrowing and they 241 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 3: had burrowing behaviors, like we were recently talking about, Oh, 242 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,119 Speaker 3: in the Pokemon episode, we were talking about the desygnodont tetrapods, 243 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 3: you know, these thrapsid tetrapods that were affected by the 244 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 3: Permian Triassic extinction event. Of course, like everything was, but 245 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 3: some of the lineages of the Desygnodonts survived this extinction event, 246 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,959 Speaker 3: and that is thought to be in part because they 247 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 3: were burrowing animals and that gave them a leg up 248 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 3: in this really really harsh environment after the volcanic conditions 249 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 3: that caused this extinction. And so this would be another 250 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 3: example of an animal that's thought to be a survivor 251 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 3: of harsh conditions because it burrows. 252 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, but in a marine situation instead. So 253 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 2: humans apparently don't see these crabs as often as other crabs. 254 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 2: I mean, there are a lot of crabs that don't 255 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 2: really want to be seen, especially by birds and other creatures. 256 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 3: Which crabs do want to be seen. 257 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think any of them. They would prefer 258 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 2: you not look at them. They have things, and I 259 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: don't know, I guess there's certain maybe a coconut crab 260 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: is less a very large one, but even then, you know, 261 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: they don't want no organism wants to be looked at 262 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: by things that might want to eat them. 263 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 3: I guess, as always the question is seen by who. Yeah, 264 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 3: you got some real show off crabs out there, like 265 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 3: the fiddler crabs with the big claw, like, yeah, they're 266 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 3: shown off to somebody, maybe not to us. 267 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, given their habitat, they're feeding habits, they 268 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: may not be seen as much, but they are considered 269 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: a delicacy in parts of the world. I understand they're 270 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: particularly popular in Australia and in the Philippines. So listeners 271 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 2: out there write in if you have tasting notes about 272 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 2: the frog crab or the spanner crab, how is it different? 273 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 2: How does a cook up? I don't know. I don't 274 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 2: think I've ever had one. 275 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 3: This reminds me that the crucifix crab we talked about 276 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: last time, Caribtis feriata, is also said to be a 277 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 3: quite delicious crab. So if you've eaten crucifix crab, I 278 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 3: want to hear about it now. 279 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: Of note the frog crabs here, they're not closely related 280 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: to the decabot crustacean mole crabs. Mole crabs are in 281 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: the superfamily Hippoa day and they have a similar body layout. 282 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: But it's apparently a case of parallel evolution, with each 283 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 2: crab evolving for burrowing. So if you're gonna if you're 284 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 2: a crab and you want to backtrack a little bit 285 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 2: in your body form you want to get into the 286 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: burrowing lifestyle, there's a certain direction your body plan is 287 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: going to go in. Another burrowing crab that I ran 288 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: across is the masked crab or helmet crab of the 289 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 2: North Atlantic and North Sea. Let's see this one's scientific 290 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 2: name is and I may butcher this Carrestius castaveolanis, but 291 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: it's so called helmet crab or mass crab because the 292 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 2: markings on its back allegedly resemble a human face. Included 293 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 2: an image here for you, Joe, you can you can 294 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: rule on this. 295 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 3: I see human face. I also kind of see a 296 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 3: feline face, kind of a big cat. 297 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 298 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it looks kind of like whiskers maybe along 299 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 3: the cheek it does. 300 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, with the legs certainly add to this effect. 301 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, but this is another faceback crab, and we've talked 302 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 3: about this on the show before. 303 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: That's right. This brings us back to the Japanese Hikagani 304 00:16:55,080 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 2: crabs with the shell pattern that famously resembles a human 305 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: face or a samuraiz face mask, tied to folklore traditions 306 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 2: about the crabs being reincarnations of these warriors who were 307 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 2: defeated and drowned beneath the waves of the Nakel Battle 308 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: of Dan No Lura. We talked about this in a 309 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 2: previous episode of Stuff to Blow Your Mind. I believe 310 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 2: this is one where we also talked about how it 311 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: was discussed back in the day on Carl Sagan's Cosmos 312 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 2: TV series. 313 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 3: That's right. Actually, I thought this would be a good 314 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: time to revisit that because when we last talked about these, 315 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 3: we talked about the idea popularized by Carl Sagan in 316 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 3: so this was in the original Cosmos TV series. I 317 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 3: think this was the year nineteen eighty. Carl Sagan was 318 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 3: not the originator of this idea, but it was made 319 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 3: very famous on that show. And the idea was that 320 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 3: the Hikagani carapace could have been made more face like 321 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 3: over time by the process of artificial selection. And I'm 322 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 3: going to critique this idea in a minute, but the 323 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 3: story goes like this. You've got crab fishures going out 324 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 3: over the centuries catching these crabs, and they would keep 325 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 3: the crabs that looked less like faces, but throw back 326 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 3: the crabs that looked more like faces for fear of 327 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 3: crossing a taboo or eating a human spirit. So it 328 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 3: looks to human. Oh, I got to get rid of it. 329 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 3: And the idea was by doing that, you naturally drive 330 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 3: this species to look more and more like human faces 331 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 3: over time. It's an interesting idea and in principle could 332 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 3: be true. Artificial selection like this can and sometimes does happen. 333 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 3: But I think especially in the years since we first 334 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 3: talked about the Samurai crabs on the show. I've read 335 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 3: some additional skeptical takes that make it seem pretty unlikely 336 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 3: to me that artificial selection had a role in shaping 337 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 3: the carapace of this crab. We may have actually talked 338 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 3: about some of the Yeah, we talked about some of 339 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 3: these reasons in the episode, but it now seems to 340 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 3: me more like a consensus view that there's probably not 341 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 3: any artificial selection going on here. One of the main 342 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 3: reasons is that the Hikagani are not a species significantly 343 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 3: fished as food anyway, so there is not significant harvesting 344 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 3: of these crabs in any case, you know, whether they 345 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 3: look like faces or not. And then the other thing 346 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 3: is that the patterns on the carapace that we interpret 347 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 3: as the raised parts of a face, like the nose 348 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 3: and the cheeks and the depressions of the eyes and 349 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 3: all that these patterns are not cosmetic in the biological sense. 350 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,919 Speaker 3: They're not just random decorations that can be easily moved 351 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 3: around to look like whatever. In a nineteen ninety three 352 00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 3: article for Terra magazine, the invertebrate zoologist Joel Martin explained 353 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: this by saying, quote. The grooves and ridges on the 354 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 3: backs of the crabs have specific purposes and are not 355 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 3: merely decorative. The grooves are external indications of supportive ridges 356 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 3: called apidemes inside the crab's carapace that service sites for 357 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 3: muscle attachment. Elevated areas between these grooves allow for an 358 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 3: increase in internal space so that the various parts of 359 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 3: a crab's viscera, gastric, hepatic, cardiac, brachial, et cetera are 360 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 3: reflected externally. So I think the implication of that is 361 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 3: that evolution would not be just free to play around 362 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 3: with rearrangements of these features to favor a non fished 363 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 3: face morph because the raised and lowered parts are functional, 364 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 3: so moving them around would not be impossible. I mean, 365 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 3: you know, the functional parts of an animal can move 366 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 3: through evolution as well, but it would come at a 367 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 3: high cost of fitness. The pressure to move them around 368 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 3: would probably have to be very strong. So I was 369 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 3: thinking about this, and I would wager a guess that 370 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 3: the resemblance of certain crab shells, like the one you 371 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 3: were just talking about. What was that called again, the 372 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 3: mast crab or the helmet crab from the North Atlantic 373 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 3: and the Samurai crab, that these resemblances to human faces 374 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 3: are probably going to just be a fairly common coincidence 375 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 3: because faces and crab bodies have the same primary organizing principle, 376 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 3: which is bilateral symmetry. So when an animal body region 377 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 3: is left right symmetrical, you're gonna end up with some 378 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 3: structures in mirrored pairs on either side, like eyes and cheeks, 379 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 3: or like lungs and gills, and then you're also going 380 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 3: to have some structures masked around or near the middle 381 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 3: near the meridian, like nose, mouth, heart, gut, to that 382 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 3: sort of thing. So it's I think just not that 383 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 3: surprising that some surfaces reflecting the arrangement of underlying organs 384 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 3: and the muscles that support them will look like faces, 385 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 3: because both faces and internal organs in a crab are 386 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 3: left right symmetrical, so it's a left right symmetrical Rorschach test. 387 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 3: You're just gonna get some faces. But on the other hand, 388 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 3: I want to make clear again that while I think 389 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: this is probably not a case of artificial selection on 390 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 3: a wild animal population, that absolutely does happen sometimes, so 391 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 3: it's not like the principle is invalidated. You can have 392 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 3: artificial selection on wild populations by aggressive hunting of certain 393 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 3: types of animals. You know, if there is an animal 394 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 3: that has a certain body part that is prized by 395 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 3: hunters over time, you know, if that's aggressively harvested and hunted, 396 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 3: you will see that animal population often shift to basically 397 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 3: not have that trade anymore. So this can happen, and 398 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 3: we can see an extreme form of artificial selection in 399 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 3: domesticated animals and in plants and other organisms of course. 400 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, domestic dogs or bread for extreme 401 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 3: with extreme selective pressures on desired traits. 402 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 2: Right, right, So the mechanism absolutely exists, but in this 403 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 2: particular case, it's probably not a factor. Right, And as 404 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 2: always we have to stress that as humans, we would 405 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: we look for these faces. We see faces if they're 406 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: just barely there. So it doesn't take much for us 407 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 2: to look at a crab or any other organism and say, oh, 408 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 2: my goodness, that is clearly a human face. That is 409 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 2: clearly a human skull, and in factor our own stories 410 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 2: into why it is there. 411 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, let me paradolia please. 412 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. In the last episode, you know, we 413 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 2: talked a little bit about how there may be weren't 414 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,439 Speaker 2: as many crabs in folklore mythology as we would like, 415 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 2: but we did reference that. You know, there are some 416 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: great examples, and I was looking around for something new 417 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 2: on this front and I found one. I didn't find 418 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 2: as many sources, and I didn't find much in the 419 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 2: way of recent sources. So I do want a flag 420 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 2: that I'm working from sources here that are from like 421 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 2: the forties and the twenties in a couple of cases, 422 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 2: so they're always caveats with that sort of information. But 423 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 2: what i'd sounded really fascinating. So it is another example 424 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 2: of a supernatural crab, and it is called the Nakalla, 425 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 2: and it is a familiar of a male sorcerer that 426 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 2: takes the form of a kind of demon crab in 427 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 2: the traditions of Zambia. According to Witchcraft, Divination and Magic 428 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: among the Balival Tribes by cmn Wit nineteen forty eight, 429 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 2: these are one of several types of familiars said to 430 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: be either inherited in the case of female practitioners of 431 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 2: dark magic, or quote prepared by matt recipes in the 432 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: case of male practitioners. And this seems to be specific 433 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 2: to the Lundon people. This is a Boundtu ethnic group. So, 434 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: according to this text, some of these familiars, because there 435 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 2: seem to be a vast array of familiars that may 436 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 2: be manifested by these individuals. According to these folk tale 437 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 2: traditions as related in these texts, some of them, especially 438 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 2: a snake familiar form, often take on the face of 439 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 2: their master, and their life force is tied to their master, 440 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: so when the master dies, they die as well. And 441 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 2: it seems possible from the context here that the Nakala 442 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 2: crab demon or crab spirit also possesses the face of 443 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 2: its master. White gives us this description in the text quote. 444 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 2: The animal spirit known as Nakala also lives in rivers 445 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 2: and is supposed to resemble a large crab with big 446 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 2: claws and nose like projections. Describes how it is destroyed 447 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 2: by the diviner calling it from its hiding place by 448 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 2: whistling on a horn. This horn contains a preparation made 449 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: from the body of other nicala which he has destroyed. 450 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 2: The nicala is shot when it makes its appearance, and 451 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 2: the diviner removes certain parts of it to use for 452 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 2: future medicine required for calling forth others of its kind. 453 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 3: Oh Okay. 454 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 2: Now the Miland here he is referring to is Frank H. Miland, 455 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 2: who wrote about this spirit crab in an older text 456 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty three is which bound Africa, and he has 457 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 2: these are some other details from that text. So Milan 458 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 2: shares that the Nicala is said to be about four 459 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 2: feet long and kills people by eating their shadow. 460 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 3: Oh. Interesting. 461 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. He also adds, I'm going to read a section 462 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 2: here that contains some more details about this quote. It 463 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,919 Speaker 2: is about four feet from head to head, for it 464 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: has a head at either end, oh, and is nearly 465 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 2: as broad as it is long. Each head resembles the 466 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 2: head of a hippo, having the same lumps on it 467 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 2: by the eyes. When it is eating a person's shadow, 468 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: it eats with both heads simultaneously. 469 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 3: Wow. 470 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. There are more details about the killing of the Nkala, 471 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 2: like what sort of horn is used and so forth, 472 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: like a more complete recipe for how the Nakala slayer 473 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 2: carries out his business, and I want to mention that elsewhere. 474 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,120 Speaker 2: Seemingly unrelated, He also mentions a Lunda tradition by which 475 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: one's life energy could be magically stored inside a shell 476 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: of some sort. Sometimes a crab shell so that one's 477 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 2: enemies cannot destroy it with witchcraft, which is interesting. So 478 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 2: it's like I will take on the crabs protection for 479 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 2: my own life force or soul. 480 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, a spiritual exoskeleton. 481 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. So again I wish I had more information about 482 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 2: this Nakala creature, but what is available does sound very tantalizing. 483 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 2: So again, a kind of two faced crab monster that 484 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 2: may exist sort of wild as a magical creature, but 485 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: then also can but also can be created via magic 486 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 2: to serve a sorcerer, and it eats men's souls, and 487 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,120 Speaker 2: it does so like from both ends at the same time, 488 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: so two mouths simultaneously crunching down the soul or not 489 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 2: the shadow, but in eating the shadow like destroys the body. 490 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 3: I think it's interesting that it's also said to have head. 491 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 3: The two heads are like the heads of a hippo, 492 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 3: which is you can actually think of some similarities between 493 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 3: the hippo and the crab. They are both aquatic or 494 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: semi aquatic creatures that walk, so they're like not fish. 495 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 3: They're not swimming creatures with tails. They have legs, but 496 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: they live in the water, making them a kind of 497 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 3: I don't know, in between type creature, and these in 498 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 3: between creatures in our environments are often thought of to 499 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 3: have kind of special or magical properties because they span 500 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 3: the division between worlds. 501 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and this does seem like a world rim 502 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 2: walker for sure. So yeah, like I said, I wish 503 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: there were more sources on this particular folk tradition, but 504 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: what I was able to find sounded really really interesting. 505 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 3: That is really cool. All right, are you ready to 506 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 3: do a bit of follow up on the Francis Xavier crab? 507 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, the crab with a cross? Yeah, what do 508 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 2: we have this time? 509 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 3: Well, in the last episode when we talked about it, 510 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 3: we said we might come back to the idea of 511 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 3: how plausible it is that a crab would carry a 512 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 3: cross a crucifix dropped in the ocean around in its 513 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 3: claws over its head like it's described in the story. 514 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 3: So maybe we should actually start a brief refresher on 515 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 3: the story. So the story is a legend of the 516 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 3: Catholic missionary and co founder of the Jesuits, Saint Francis Xavier, 517 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 3: and a crab. There are different versions of this story, 518 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 3: but the best known goes like this, Xavier and his 519 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 3: companions are sailing in the Molucca Islands when a terrible 520 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 3: storm comes on and threatens direct the ship. Xavier prays 521 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 3: for deliverance, and while doing so, he dips his crucifix 522 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 3: over the side of the boat into the waves. In 523 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 3: some versions of the story, he accidentally loses it it 524 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 3: slips from his hand into the stormy see. In later 525 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 3: versions of the story, he sort of like throws the 526 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 3: crucifix into the sea as a weather control bomb to 527 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 3: still the waves. Whichever version you get, the crucifix is 528 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 3: lost in the water. The ship survives the storm and 529 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 3: reaches shore many miles away. And then the legend goes 530 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 3: that while Xavier and his party are walking on the beach, 531 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 3: a crab comes out of the water and approaches them, 532 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 3: and when it draws near, they see something amazing. Gripped 533 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 3: tight in the crab's two claws, held aloft over its 534 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 3: body is Xavier's crucifix, the one he lost in the storm. 535 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 3: And then Xavier takes the crucifix and prays, and the 536 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 3: crab goes back home scuttles into the waves. So, based 537 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 3: on what we covered last time about the development in 538 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 3: general of the Xavier miracle stories, I don't think there's 539 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,719 Speaker 3: a strong reason to believe this anecdote actually happened, And 540 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 3: there's also a chance, based on some scholarship we talked about, 541 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 3: that it was inspired by a Buddhist legend, an older 542 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 3: Buddhist legend of a ninth century Buddhist priest named Jakaku 543 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 3: who uses an icon of a god of wisdom to 544 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 3: calm the waves and then gets that icon returned to 545 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 3: him three years later by an octopus. We actually did 546 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 3: discuss the relative likelihood of an octopus versus a crab 547 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 3: bringing a trink it back to you from the water. 548 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 3: I guess we still can't fully rule on which ones 549 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 3: more likely, but I was leaning toward the octopus. However, 550 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 3: I was wondering, would a crab potentially do something like this? 551 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 3: So we're not asking is the story true. I think 552 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 3: there are just outside of the coreplausibility of the miracle, 553 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 3: there are things about the story that make it unlikely 554 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 3: to be true. But would a crab potentially do something 555 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 3: like this, i e. Find a discarded crucifix on the 556 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 3: ocean floor and carry it around overhead in its claws. 557 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 3: So to answer this, I was like, well, what kinds 558 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 3: of object manipulation and carrying do we see among crabs? 559 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 3: So I went digging into the scientific literature on different 560 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 3: types of carrying behaviors, and I absolutely cannot provide an 561 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 3: exhaustive list of every crab that's ever picked up and 562 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 3: carried an object. But on the whole, I think you 563 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 3: get a few major categories, and I'm going to run 564 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 3: through them here. So one is decorator crabs. We've talked 565 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 3: about these on the show before. This category includes several 566 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 3: different species of crabs, all belonging to the superfamily Majoitia. 567 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 3: They pick up and carry thing. They pick up objects 568 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 3: and carry them around, and these objects are not food, 569 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 3: but they don't carry these objects in their claws. Decorator 570 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 3: crabs mount objects to their backs, to their carapaces, often 571 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,719 Speaker 3: living sedentary organisms, though sometimes inanimate objects as well. So 572 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 3: they decorate their carapaces with things like algae and soft 573 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 3: coral anemonies and sponges, and they carry these things around. 574 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 3: Those things, again, most often are living organisms, but they 575 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 3: don't carry them in their claws. So I think this 576 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 3: is not really a relevant example. 577 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 2: Did we I'm trying to remember if we were talking 578 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 2: about these crabs and discussed how in artificial laboratory environments 579 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 2: they will end up picking things that don't make it 580 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 2: seem to make less sense, like hamburger meat whatnot putting 581 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 2: that on there. 582 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 3: Yet I think we did we maybe talked about that 583 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 3: in our Bone Collector's episode, that they were they were 584 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 3: just putting dead, dead stuff on their backs. 585 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so that would seem to me. This is not 586 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,280 Speaker 2: a not backing this up with any research, but based 587 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: on what we've covered in the past, you could imagine 588 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 2: an artificial scenario in which a crab, one of these crabs, 589 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 2: is put in an aquarium without access to its preferred 590 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 2: decorator selections, and instead is given various religious iconography. It 591 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,879 Speaker 2: might conceivably decorate itself with at least one of those 592 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 2: icons possibly. 593 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,719 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, there are cases where these will they 594 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,320 Speaker 3: will put inanimate objects on their backs, like maybe shells 595 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 3: or things like that. Yeah, so it's possible. Yeah, might 596 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 3: might try to mount a crucifix on there. Now, the 597 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 3: decorator crabs require they've got these almost velcrow like kind 598 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 3: of hooks on there that are called I think ct 599 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 3: on their carapaces, which are what they used to fix 600 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 3: objects to them. I have questions about whether that would 601 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 3: actually attach correctly to whatever material the crucifix was made of. 602 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 3: I think the story doesn't say what the crucifix was 603 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 3: made of, but we had been assuming metal because if 604 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,760 Speaker 3: it was wooden, I like, would it sink? Though I guess. Also, 605 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 3: I guess the story doesn't require that it sinks, just 606 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 3: that it gets lost. So maybe it's a wooden crucifix 607 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 3: that gets lost and then floats away, or maybe it's 608 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,399 Speaker 3: a metal one that sinks and then a. 609 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,240 Speaker 2: Beef jerky or bacon strips. 610 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 3: I guess unlikely there, but attach the story doesn't say. 611 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 3: But yeah, I had been I'd been thinking metal because 612 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 3: I'd been picturing its sinking, but the story doesn't actually 613 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 3: say it sames. 614 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 2: Well, and also there's the iconography where we see it 615 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 2: metal like silvery, so that kind of forces you to 616 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 2: think about the story like that as well. 617 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, So later they would make silver crosses of 618 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 3: Saint Xavier Francis Xavior, where a crab is holding the 619 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 3: silver cross in its claws, which is beautiful, holding it 620 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 3: like Luke Skywalker holds the lightsaber. So okay, so you've 621 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 3: got decorator crabs that doesn't really fit doesn't exactly fit 622 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,439 Speaker 3: the legend. You've got palm palm or boxer crabs. We've 623 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 3: also talked about these on the show in the past. 624 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 3: So crabs in the genus Libya do hold something other 625 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 3: than food in their claws, but in this case it 626 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 3: is another living organism. This is another example of crabs symbiosis. 627 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 3: The boxer crabs will hold usually stinging invertebrates like cea anemones, 628 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,280 Speaker 3: in their claws, and they use these for fence, for fighting, 629 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 3: and sometimes for feeding. So they're sort of weapons. Yeah, 630 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:10,600 Speaker 3: they've got weapons of stinging stinging invertebrates on their claws. 631 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 3: Then you've got the carrier type crabs. These exist in 632 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 3: at least four families I was reading about. A big 633 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 3: example is the family Deripidy. These carrier crabs exhibit a 634 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 3: behavior known as carrying. I was reading about it in 635 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 3: a paper from nineteen eighty six published in the Journal 636 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 3: of Crustacean Biology by Mary Kay Wixton called carrying behavior 637 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,920 Speaker 3: in brachiurine crabs. In this paper, Wixton documents crabs carrying 638 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 3: objects around actually holding them up over their backs, but 639 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 3: it's kind of the wrong orientation. So these objects include 640 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 3: quote shells, pieces of sponge, tunicates, algae, branches of Gorgonians 641 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 3: or antipathians, or chips of rock. So we're starting to 642 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 3: get closed. This is some times picking up inanimate objects 643 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 3: like shells or rocks, holding them up over their backs. 644 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 3: But it's a little bit different than the imagery we 645 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 3: see in the paintings and as described in the story, 646 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,919 Speaker 3: because again the Francis Xavier one it says it's got 647 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 3: the cross in its claws, the clause meaning the killy 648 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 3: the front claws. These carrier crabs do not use their 649 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 3: claws the front claws as wixton documents. They carry things 650 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 3: with their back legs, so like the fifth or fourth periopods, 651 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 3: the furthest back legs which tend to be modified and 652 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 3: specialized for this job. And it's worth noting the biological 653 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 3: function of this, both in the decorator crabs and the 654 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 3: carrier crabs. The most supported explanation for why the crabs 655 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 3: do this is for camouflage and defense. So they're basically 656 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 3: hiding under these external objects and this may help them 657 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 3: lend in with the environment. It might camouflage them, but 658 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 3: it also sometimes provides protection because they can take advantage 659 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 3: of the defenses of a living animal mounted above like 660 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,280 Speaker 3: a stinging invertebrate again and then finally, Another possibly relevant 661 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 3: example is crabs that build nests. There are various types 662 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 3: of crabs that do this. Fiddler crabs, I think ghost 663 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 3: crabs build nests in the mud or in the sand, 664 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 3: and as such they might sometimes carry or push, at 665 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,720 Speaker 3: least push around materials used in the construction of nests. 666 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 3: This would be maybe things like mud balls or clumps 667 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 3: of sand, though there's some blurring into the food manipulation 668 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 3: category here because fiddler crabs will also use their front 669 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 3: claws for when they're dealing with mud. That is sometimes 670 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 3: a feeding behavior, but none of the sources I was 671 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,239 Speaker 3: looking at described behaviors like clutching an inanimate object with 672 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 3: both claws and holding it a So when thinking about 673 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 3: crab behavior, we may be led astray by unconsciously comparing 674 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 3: crab kili or crab claws to human hands, because we 675 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 3: use our hands to carry objects all the time, but 676 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:25,720 Speaker 3: for crabs the claws are mostly used as tools, weapons, 677 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 3: and for display, not for carrying objects from one place 678 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 3: to another, and most species of crab that carry objects 679 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:39,000 Speaker 3: do not use their claws to do it. So the 680 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,719 Speaker 3: closest I could get that really seems plausible to me 681 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,719 Speaker 3: is actually is some kind of carrier crab actually, but 682 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 3: it would not be like the pictures we see where 683 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 3: it's up in the front claws. It would be holding 684 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 3: the crucifix over the back of its carapace with its 685 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 3: back legs, and that is kind of an interesting image 686 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 3: as well. 687 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 2: Possibly blasphemous though, holding the crucifer picks up with your feet. Well, 688 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 2: I guess it's fine if a crab does it, it's 689 00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 2: all right. 690 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 3: Have we issued a Papa bull on this yet? Like? 691 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 3: Are the are crabs holy? Or are they? Are they unholy? 692 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 2: I think crabs are absolutely holy, Okay, I think pretty 693 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 2: much anyway you you take it apart, crabs are the 694 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 2: children of God or the gods, and they do important 695 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,560 Speaker 2: work out there. I think the exception would be any 696 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 2: kind of say black magic crab, demon or spirit that's 697 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 2: summoned to, you know, for nefarious purposes. That I think 698 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 2: would be more clearly some sort of artificial being. 699 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,880 Speaker 3: The crabs, in attack of the crab monsters, are not holy. 700 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 3: They have been rendered unholy by radioactive contamination and by 701 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:52,319 Speaker 3: becoming psychic mind stealers that eat you and steal your thoughts, right, 702 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,239 Speaker 3: so that it's hard to say that they're holy, but 703 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,520 Speaker 3: just regular crabs in the environment. Yeah, that's about that's 704 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 3: got to be whole, right. 705 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 2: Yeah. Likewise, alien crabs or alien crab like beings from 706 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 2: another world, well that's a whole theological discussion. To planets 707 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 2: have individual gods or is there like one god that 708 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 2: rules over all the planets? You know, that's not for 709 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,800 Speaker 2: us to decide. That's a much larger question. 710 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 3: All right, Well, I think we need to call it 711 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 3: there for part two of our crab Bag series, but 712 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,840 Speaker 3: there will be more. We will be back with a 713 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,720 Speaker 3: crab Bag Part three at least on the following Tuesday. 714 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 3: Is this going to be on a Thursday? 715 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:34,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, so look forward to more crab based action. Again, 716 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,720 Speaker 2: there's no shortage of crabs out there, real or imagined. Well, 717 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 2: at this point, we just want to remind everyone. Stuff 718 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,920 Speaker 2: to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast. 719 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 2: We've been around for years. You can find all of 720 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 2: these past episodes in audio form wherever you get your 721 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 2: audio podcasts. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, that's when we air 722 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,479 Speaker 2: our core episodes, but on Wednesdays we do a short 723 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 2: form episode and on Fridays we set aside most serious 724 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 2: concerns to just talk about a week film on Weird 725 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 2: House Cinema. 726 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 3: And hey, if you are watching on Netflix and you 727 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,839 Speaker 3: would like to do the equivalent of subscribing to our show, there, 728 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 3: you can click the remind me button so that you 729 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 3: get access to new episodes when they appear on Netflix. 730 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,760 Speaker 3: And just a reminder if there's any confusion, the video 731 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 3: version of our show on Netflix is the same content 732 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 3: you would get in the audio feed. It's just with 733 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,359 Speaker 3: the cameras turned on so you can see our heads 734 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 3: while we're talking. If you want to listen to an 735 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 3: audio version of the podcast, you can get that wherever 736 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 3: you get your podcasts. Stuff to Blow your Mind all right, huge, 737 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 3: thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 738 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 739 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, or to 740 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 3: suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hi, 741 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,479 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 742 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:56,279 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 743 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 744 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: more podcasts to my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, 745 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:16,880 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.