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Speaker 1: What happened to this young woman? Ezra mccandles, a twenty

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Speaker 1: two year old so injured she can't even say her

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Speaker 1: own name. She's in horrible shape, blood around her face,

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Speaker 1: on her face, covered in mud. Coming for help, you're

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Speaker 1: coming for home? What happened? Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: twenty ninety one. Once he hadison the emergency at the

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Speaker 1: Gotten Shipple calling and I have a young lady that

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Speaker 1: I just came to my house and somebody attacked her

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Speaker 1: and she needs a doctor. Her colors are all torn,

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Speaker 1: and and what if the advershore located at what what

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Speaker 1: is the address you were at? You say six fourteen,

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Speaker 1: Well hen Duria Tavenuel, Okay, it's she injured. Yeah, she's injured.

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Speaker 1: Her mom who's kind of got the blood around her

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Speaker 1: overall corn okay, and she's by herself. She's by herself.

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Speaker 1: She want to my all apear historyfently? Okay? Can you

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Speaker 1: ask her what her name is? Get hold on a second?

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Speaker 1: What's your name, ma'am? What? You don't know who? She's

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Speaker 1: been kind of bad because you don't know. Oh my stars,

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Speaker 1: you are hearing a nine one one call? What happened

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Speaker 1: to this young woman, a twenty two year old so

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Speaker 1: injured she can't even say her own name. I mean, see, Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more of that. Nine one one calls a

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Speaker 1: young lady that year that new help define definitely have

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Speaker 1: an ambulance and some officers started that way. Did she

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Speaker 1: think who did this to her? Did she say who

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Speaker 1: did this to her? No? If you did, wick atacks

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Speaker 1: all her then and okay, and uh tell me your name?

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Speaker 1: Did she say where this happened? No? I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't get scut that. Okay? Do you want to stand

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Speaker 1: the phone? If be gotten or sure? Okay, so the

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Speaker 1: ambulan who's gotten the way, ambulance and officers are on

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Speaker 1: their rail, stand the phone if you as long as

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Speaker 1: they can. Okay, Okay, I'll hang on. Okay, come on

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Speaker 1: for help. You're come for what happened? Joining me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel. Renowned defense attorney Randy Kessler joining us

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Speaker 1: from the Atlanta Jurisdiction. Bruce Johnson, owner ESP Investigations, Crime

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Speaker 1: Scene Commander Chicago. Doctor Liz Debor, license, psychologist, founder of

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Speaker 1: Visionista's by design at doctor Liz Lyz dot com doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendall Craws, Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That's Austin

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Speaker 1: joining us, and right now to Crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave mac Let's start at the beginning. What

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Speaker 1: were we just hearing, Nancy? What you were hearing was

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Speaker 1: a farmer named Don Sipple. He goes to his door

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Speaker 1: and there before him is a nineteen year old woman.

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Speaker 1: She's muddy up to her knees, she's got blood around

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Speaker 1: her mouth, she's disheveled, she's crying, and she tells him

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Speaker 1: she needs help right now that she's been attacked. And

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Speaker 1: that's why Don picks up the phone, calls nine one

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Speaker 1: one and he's you know, you can tell he's trying

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Speaker 1: to get information from her to relay back to nine

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Speaker 1: one one and can't even get the girl's name. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm listening to the nine one one call and it's

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Speaker 1: conjuring up so many imagist Randy Kessler, defense attorney joining

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Speaker 1: me out of Atlanta. Randy, that's the kind of thing

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Speaker 1: you want to play for a jury, if you ever

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Speaker 1: make it to a jury. There's something about a nine

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Speaker 1: one one call that takes you to that moment and

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Speaker 1: also you're getting the very first impressions of what could

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Speaker 1: be a felony. You're exactly right when you say the

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Speaker 1: numbers nine one one. It's almost like a theatrical drum roll.

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Speaker 1: You know, whatever comes after this in the nine one

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Speaker 1: one call it a heavier sense of urgency, and it's

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Speaker 1: going to weigh on the jury. They're gonna listen more intently.

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Speaker 1: And that's what you wanted as a lawyer. You want

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Speaker 1: the jury to pay attention to what you're about to

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Speaker 1: say or the evidence you're about to a tender And

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Speaker 1: that's the best you know setup is, ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear the nine one one call.

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Speaker 1: That's what started this whole project. It starts the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Dave Matt tell me about where this happened. Happened about

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Speaker 1: halfway between Minemy and Eau Claire. Most of the principles

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Speaker 1: involved in this case lived in and around the Eau Claire,

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin area. You know, when you first see a woman

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Speaker 1: with blood around the mouth covered in mud, know to

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Speaker 1: Bruce Johnson, owner ESP Investigations, Master Sergeant Retire Chicago Metro,

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Speaker 1: the first thing you want to do is help her

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Speaker 1: What strikes you about the nine one one call? What

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Speaker 1: strikes me, but that is that obviously she was dazed

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Speaker 1: and confused. And for the gentleman that was, you know,

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Speaker 1: opening the door and seeing this in front of him,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he was a little bit in shock. You know,

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Speaker 1: at this point, it's so early, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: question her her motives or anything like that. But you're

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Speaker 1: looking at a young woman nineteen twenty years old. She's disheveled,

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Speaker 1: possibly you know, clothes torn up, looks like she's been

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Speaker 1: a victim of a beating. And he was very you know,

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Speaker 1: obviously he's an older, an older person, and wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the frame of mind to start questioning her. And that's

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Speaker 1: why he was struggling when the operator was asking him

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Speaker 1: questions about her conditions. Yeah, yeah, he's a good samaritan.

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Speaker 1: Let's see what more we can learn. Sights her bleeding

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Speaker 1: from the mouth. Do we know what other injuries she has?

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Speaker 1: Is she looks like she's injured anywhere else? Yeah, she

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Speaker 1: looks a little bit some other uh bloody marched on

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Speaker 1: or her leg a little bit Okay, Okay, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: all torn Okay, and how old? If you had to

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Speaker 1: get so old you think she's how old are you man?

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Speaker 1: Nineteen nineteen? Okay, if that much is coming, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get help. Or because so she came on the flip correct, Yeah, okay, yep,

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Speaker 1: she just walked to my daughter. Okay, can you ask

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Speaker 1: her who did this to her? Repeat? God, please, can

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Speaker 1: you ask her who did this to her? Oh it?

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Speaker 1: Do you have any idea? Who did this to you?

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Speaker 1: Dis old s Okay, So the piece of evidence I

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Speaker 1: hear from her, She makes her way to his door,

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Speaker 1: bams on the door. He comes to the door. She's

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Speaker 1: in horrible shape, blood around her face, on her face,

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Speaker 1: covered in mud. To doctor Liz debor you can find

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Speaker 1: her at doctor liz Lyz dot com. Doctor Liz, I

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Speaker 1: notice that she does know her age. She knows she

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Speaker 1: is nineteen, but does not know her name or what

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Speaker 1: happened to her. So what we hear from just hearing

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Speaker 1: her in the background of the nine one one call

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Speaker 1: is a high intensity of psychological disorganization. So obviously she's

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Speaker 1: been involved in some extreme trauma. Um, it just looks

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Speaker 1: like an attack. It looks like she's a victim, and

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Speaker 1: she is really seemingly disconnected from reality, a real disorganized

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Speaker 1: schema of personality. Right now, we don't know what to think.

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Speaker 1: A nineteen year old girl shows up, what would you do?

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Speaker 1: A lot of people wouldn't even open the door, that's right,

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Speaker 1: that'd be too afraid. But this elderly gentleman opens the door,

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Speaker 1: a good samaritan to a woman covered in blood and mud. Listen,

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Speaker 1: we'll get her to help. She needed to be in

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Speaker 1: an ambulance. SERI hold also, just lp you could, We'll

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Speaker 1: get her taken care of the backboardly, how much about

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Speaker 1: vacate um fifteen? I notice to get here. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 1: coming from a nomine unfortunately, so it'll be a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: But she's got to cloud goes on, he said, maybe

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Speaker 1: I told her she's nineteen? Okay, ended up? Did you

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Speaker 1: get the blood on her multilause? I get it was

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Speaker 1: dry or yeah? I hit a little on a dry side, y'all,

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Speaker 1: But I have a while ago. I think she's walked

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Speaker 1: right away as maybe yeah, I don't know how she

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Speaker 1: found it here, but that's okay. Don't you give any

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Speaker 1: family tr right down. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on

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Speaker 1: March twenty second of twenty eighteen, the dun County Sheriff's

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Speaker 1: Office received a nine one one call from a local farmer.

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Speaker 1: I have a lady that just came to my house

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Speaker 1: and somebody attacked her. A woman had showed up at

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Speaker 1: his house and was bloody. The doctor her colored her

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Speaker 1: all torn. A young woman claimed that she had been

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Speaker 1: violently attacked. What's your name, ma'am? You don't know? Do

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Speaker 1: you have any idea who did that to you? She

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Speaker 1: couldn't remember. They saw the word boy carved into her

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Speaker 1: left arm. She said she was scared. Something horrible happened

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Speaker 1: to this woman was a straituation one I've never been,

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Speaker 1: and I've been her own wrong time. Even think, oh

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Speaker 1: my gosh, this is horrible, this poor woman. And then

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Speaker 1: law enforcements show up and learned that her name is

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Speaker 1: Ezra McCandless. But as you listen, you know you hear

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Speaker 1: Jason Mangle called Jason Mingle. Finally we have a name,

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Speaker 1: you were just hearing our friends at CBS forty eight hours.

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Speaker 1: We learn her name finally is Ezra McCandless, and she

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Speaker 1: keeps saying call Jason mangele. Okay. We also hear that

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Speaker 1: someone has carved letters into her body joining me. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Kendall Crowns, Deputy Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas. That's Austin,

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Speaker 1: doctor Crowns. I've seen cases that I personally investigated and

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Speaker 1: handled where victims' bodies had had letters carved into them,

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Speaker 1: usually one letter, maybe two, and it's very very rare.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen anything like it? Yes, I have.

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Speaker 1: I've seen people who have committed suicide actually at whole

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Speaker 1: sentences into their body, usually on their non dominant arm.

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Speaker 1: So it is actually interesting in this case that everything

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Speaker 1: she has on her seems to be on her left side,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns. Is really interesting that you notice that

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Speaker 1: when you say everything is on her left side, what

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Speaker 1: do you mean by everything? From the pictures? The carving

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Speaker 1: of the word boy fears to be on her left floearm.

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Speaker 1: Then her defensive injuries of her left palm of her

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Speaker 1: hand also on her left hand. So and also the

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Speaker 1: defensive injury on her left hand looks very superficial as well.

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Speaker 1: With people with the defensive injuries I've seen where they

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Speaker 1: were legitimately murdered, the wounds are actually very deep and

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Speaker 1: cut through multiple layers of the skin because they're actually

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Speaker 1: grabbing the knife, trying to stop being killed, and they'll

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Speaker 1: do anything to stop it. So when they grab it,

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Speaker 1: they grab hard and deep and they get cut very bad.

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Speaker 1: Her wounds looks like someone trying not to hurt themselves,

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Speaker 1: but trying to make it look like they were injured.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's really fascinating that you picked up on that. Also,

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Speaker 1: when you say on her left hand, I believe you

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Speaker 1: said it was very superficial. Describe what you mean by that,

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Speaker 1: and if you could address the rest of her wounds. Sure,

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Speaker 1: the wound on her left hand is on her palm,

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Speaker 1: and it appears to be like only the skin surface,

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Speaker 1: almost like a scratching across the skin surface instead of

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Speaker 1: a deep cutting. Again, with defensive wounds, it often goes

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Speaker 1: through the upper layer of skin, the lower layer of skin,

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Speaker 1: and into the underlying fat. So she just looks like

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Speaker 1: she has an upper layer wound. Only joining me Dave

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Speaker 1: Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter. Now, this guy,

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Speaker 1: the good Samaritan don simple that we hear in the

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Speaker 1: nine one one call. He just here's bamming at his

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Speaker 1: door at what time of the day or night in

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Speaker 1: it is it? And is it a rural area. Well

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Speaker 1: we're talking. We're talking about fourth fifteen in the afternoon,

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Speaker 1: Don Simple. As has been mentioned, he's an elderly man.

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Speaker 1: He's about ninety years old. He's sitting down to dinner

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Speaker 1: when all of this begins for him. So fourth fifteen

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Speaker 1: in the afternoon, sitting down to dinner, and here comes

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Speaker 1: this knock on the door, and he opens it up

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Speaker 1: and sees somebody who looks like they have just been

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Speaker 1: through the worst experience of life. And he has no

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Speaker 1: reason to doubt anything. She's saying, take a listen to this.

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Speaker 1: She was my girlfriend. I was in deep love without row.

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Speaker 1: She was an amazing person. I thought she was pretty

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Speaker 1: interesting and she was really artistic. We were good friends.

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Speaker 1: She liked having people in her life. As the investigation continues,

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Speaker 1: as he was able to remember that she was attacked

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Speaker 1: money Muddy Road, very remote by Alexander Woodworth, an ex boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: Law enforcement was treating this case as a woman who

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Speaker 1: was violently attacked by a man and they were unable

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Speaker 1: to find him. He needed to find alex You thought

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Speaker 1: he was an attacker. Wow, wow, Ezra McCanless. Now what

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Speaker 1: do we learn is she starting to come around Dave

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Speaker 1: mckin explain what happened to her. She's having trouble right

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Speaker 1: at the very beginning, Okay, at the very start, when

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Speaker 1: she's trying to relate what happened, she claims that she's

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Speaker 1: kind of in a brain fog that she can't really

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Speaker 1: remember what all took place. Detectives are basing everything on

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Speaker 1: what she is telling them, so they start, you know,

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Speaker 1: investigating what she is saying, and they immediately start looking

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Speaker 1: for Alex because that's who she's claiming you did this

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Speaker 1: to her. As the investigation starts to spread out, they

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Speaker 1: get her to the hospital and they're just not able

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Speaker 1: to find what's really going on. So Alex actually is missing.

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Speaker 1: They can't find him anywhere. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friends at k A R A eleven. Ezra eventually broke

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Speaker 1: up with Jason and Alex, and around that time, she

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Speaker 1: claimed she was sexually assaulted by one of Jason's friends,

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Speaker 1: Oh Claire. Detective Ryan Rock investigated Ezra's allegations. First meeting

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Speaker 1: with her was March first, twenty eighteen. She came in

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Speaker 1: for an interview. He kept telling me to be quiet,

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Speaker 1: like she keeps shushing me. She's sitting in off leaning

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Speaker 1: against the wall with her knees up, and she's telling

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Speaker 1: me the story of what took place, starking really really

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Speaker 1: really tipsy, that they consumed alcohol and that's when she

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Speaker 1: said she blacked out and she was sexually assaulted at

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Speaker 1: that point. That's what she believes. Yes, it's really scary.

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Speaker 1: Don't you believe she was a victim? Correct? You know,

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Speaker 1: the stories become conflicting, Randy Kessler, You've tried so many cases.

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Speaker 1: Very often witnesses are not what they appear to be.

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Speaker 1: Definitely are not what they appear to be. But also

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Speaker 1: memories fade and change. You know, we all think, how

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Speaker 1: could you not remember something like that? And if you

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Speaker 1: think about it, what you remember sometimes is the image

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Speaker 1: of what you want to remember. You see pictures of

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Speaker 1: yourself at a birthday party with family twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: You remember the picture of the party, but you don't

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Speaker 1: remember the party. So memories change, witnesses change, and witnesses

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Speaker 1: that's why we have trial by jury. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: trying to pick them apart, show why we think they're

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Speaker 1: a long and piece them based on other statements or

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Speaker 1: prioring consistent statements. All these tricks and tools of the

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Speaker 1: trade help us get to the truth. It is very

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Speaker 1: hard to just say, let the witness tell us the

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Speaker 1: story and just believe it. Okay, you see a car

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Speaker 1: in the distance, and this is all coming from the

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Speaker 1: appearance of a young woman, very young, around nineteen years old,

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Speaker 1: carvered in blood and mud. And now is she connected

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Speaker 1: to a dead body hanging out of a car? To

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Speaker 1: go listen to this? Everything changed when law enforcement found

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Speaker 1: the body. We found Alex's body laying across the whole

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Speaker 1: backseat football. I've been a prosecutor since twenty eleven and

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Speaker 1: I've never seen anything this violent. This is heinous. Sixteen

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Speaker 1: times he was stabbed. This was anger and rage, and

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Speaker 1: this was personal. This case boiled down to whether you

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Speaker 1: believed as our mechanists or not. Okay, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends at CBS forty eight hours. Ezra says

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Speaker 1: she grabbed the knife by its jagged blade, wrenched it

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Speaker 1: away from Alex, and began stabbing him. He said, you

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Speaker 1: were head to knife. Where were you cutting him? He

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Speaker 1: just was going anywhere and everywhere it could. Proc looks

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Speaker 1: at Ezra's hands, which have only superficial cuts. The wounds

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Speaker 1: don't match. If you're grabbing a knife like she said

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Speaker 1: she did, and you pull your hand across, your hand

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Speaker 1: is going to be fleet open. He just kept grabbing

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Speaker 1: me and Greg gravity. It's a harrowing story, but as

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Speaker 1: the evidence is examined, authorities become more convinced than ever

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Speaker 1: that Ezra mccandleus is lying. This was cold blooded murder

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Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. We got calls that Alex

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Speaker 1: was missing. I thought maybe it was like an accent

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Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, we thought maybe we could help find him.

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Speaker 1: What is he missing? With nowhere else to go? The

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Speaker 1: next day, police return to Don Sipple's farm. As we're

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Speaker 1: driving down the road, we see the muddy road right

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Speaker 1: here and we stopped and at that point we're able

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Speaker 1: to see footprints in the mud coming from the top

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Speaker 1: of the hill down the road, and we lose them

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Speaker 1: right in this area. Investigators follow those footprints and spot

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Speaker 1: a car. This is the police video from that day

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Speaker 1: from our advantage point on top of the hill. We

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Speaker 1: use binoculators and we're able to see down there and

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Speaker 1: we could see a human body and hanging over the

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Speaker 1: back seat driver's side. Did you immediately think this is Alex.

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Speaker 1: We did. We thought it was Alex. Okay, you see

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Speaker 1: a car in the distance, and this is all coming

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Speaker 1: from the appearance of a young woman, very young, around

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Speaker 1: nineteen years old, carvered in blood and mud. To Dave

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Speaker 1: Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, who is Alex.

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Speaker 1: Alex Woodworth was twenty four years old. He and Ezra

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Speaker 1: had been romantically involved. He actually was friends. He worked

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Speaker 1: as a barista coffee shop where Ezra and her her

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Speaker 1: boyfriend actually went to this coffee shop. They all became

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Speaker 1: friends together, and then we had kind of a triangle

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Speaker 1: going on. Ezra and Alex became close, became romantically involved,

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Speaker 1: and it actually that relationship caused her other relationship with Jason.

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Speaker 1: And Okay, guys, we're talking about what seems to be

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Speaker 1: a young woman appearing out of nowhere, banging on an

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Speaker 1: elderly gentleman's door. He's a good Samaritan, Misressip well well

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Speaker 1: up in his eighties at the time. This happens, really

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Speaker 1: knocking on ninety and he's calling nine one one trying

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Speaker 1: to help this woman. Take a listen to this. Twenty

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Speaker 1: four year old Alex Woodworth is dead. Oh Claire Police

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Speaker 1: Detective Ryan Prock is now leading the homicide investigation along

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Speaker 1: with investigators from the dun County Sheriff's Department. It's a

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Speaker 1: very very violent attack on a person with a knife.

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Speaker 1: How shocking was that to hear? Oh? Terrible? Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: can't wrap him. I end around it. We knew nothing

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Speaker 1: about it really to study. Does stabs sixteen times? And

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Speaker 1: that's pretty graphic. Arm now with specific details. Proc returns

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Speaker 1: to the hospital. He tells Ezra he's found the crime scene,

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Speaker 1: and this time her memory returns, beginning with a knife.

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Speaker 1: She says, Alex found in the car. Okay, hold on,

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Speaker 1: it's all coming back to her. Now you're hearing our

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Speaker 1: friends at CBS forty eight hours to doctor Liz Dubor,

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Speaker 1: licensed psychologist. You can find her at doctor Liz Lyz

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Speaker 1: dot com. Doctor Liz, How does that work? You don't remember,

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Speaker 1: then suddenly, bam, it hits you. You do remember what happened. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's a really interesting question. Certainly, we've heard that when

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Speaker 1: someone's involved in some kind of trauma, an attack of

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Speaker 1: physical altercation of this magnitude, the memory can be compromised,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, and so the stress, the emotional stress,

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Speaker 1: the physical stress. Sometimes what our brain does is kind

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Speaker 1: of disconnects from the moment in order to protect us

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Speaker 1: as a protective factor. And so there is a feature

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Speaker 1: of dissociation disconnect where the brain just kind of disconnects

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Speaker 1: from the present moment in order to somehow protect the body,

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Speaker 1: protects the psyche from from such extreme distress. Two Dotriginal Crowns,

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Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examined, Travis County, Texas sets. Often there's nothing

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Speaker 1: like an eye fight for somebody like you or may

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Speaker 1: because you get so much forensic evidence. I explain how

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Speaker 1: a knife fight, a death by knife, is so much

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Speaker 1: different than let's just say asphyxiation, a ligature manual, or

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Speaker 1: even a gunshot wound. What is it about a knife fight? Well,

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Speaker 1: the knife knife fights are usually not always, but usually

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Speaker 1: have quite a few wounds associated with them. But the

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Speaker 1: main reason is is when you stab an individual, you

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Speaker 1: don't necessarily hit something that's going to kill them instantly.

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Speaker 1: And then that person is not going to lay there

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Speaker 1: and just be stabbed, so they're going to try and

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Speaker 1: fight back, They're going to try and run away, so

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Speaker 1: you get more and more stab wounds and an attempt

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Speaker 1: to control them and attempt to kill them. If you

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Speaker 1: don't lab your land, your stab wound in the right area,

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Speaker 1: hitting like a major vessel or something associated with the

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Speaker 1: spinal cord, They're going to keep moving for quite a while.

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Speaker 1: A blood and you get a lot of and then

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Speaker 1: the more stabound, more superficial estab bound the sap Doctor

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Speaker 1: Kennall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns, let me just say two words,

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Speaker 1: Jody Arius to Bruce and Johnson, owner I SP Investigations,

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Speaker 1: was Master Sergeant crimes in commander at Chicago Metro before

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Speaker 1: he went into business for himself. That's not a walk

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Speaker 1: in the park right there in Chicago. I'm telling you,

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Speaker 1: that's right on par with Inner City Atlanta, where I

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Speaker 1: prosecuted Bruce a NI fight. It's bloody, it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: also Richard Forensics. Absolutely, you know there's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: lot obviously what Pathalo just said, There's gonna be a

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Speaker 1: lot of blood, a lot of uh movement from the body.

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Speaker 1: But with this case, for a woman to overcome a

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Speaker 1: man in this manner, the first blow had to be

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Speaker 1: a good one or possibly near fatal, because she has

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Speaker 1: to take control of him and she admitted it. First

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Speaker 1: blow that she stabbed was to the head, so we're

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Speaker 1: curious about where it was in the head. If you

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Speaker 1: say the head, it still could be the lower base

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Speaker 1: of the neck because she said that she stabbed him

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Speaker 1: from behind. But she the positions that she was talking

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Speaker 1: about weren't right. But the first blow is the most

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Speaker 1: important because he had to have gone down. We know

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Speaker 1: about the crime scene that the officers were talking about

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Speaker 1: in the field. There's a lot of blood and disheveled

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Speaker 1: stuff outside of the vehicle that puts them outside. So

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Speaker 1: how she was able to control him and possibly stabbed

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Speaker 1: him the first blow, Well, she said the first blow

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Speaker 1: was to the head and from behind, so that is

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Speaker 1: probably what put him down. And then from there she

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Speaker 1: can gain control. She can be on top, and now

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Speaker 1: you're going to start to win the fight, because I

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Speaker 1: want to know where's his defensive wounds and why couldn't

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Speaker 1: he overcome her? Because she's doesn't appear to be too

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Speaker 1: big of a woman. She's nineteen years old, probably one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten pounds. He looks like an average male,

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Speaker 1: you know, five eight possibly one hundred and sixty pounds.

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Speaker 1: They don't add up unless the first blow, had some

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Speaker 1: abilitating wound to him bottom off guard and caught him

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Speaker 1: by crime stories with Nancy Grace. Candlist told police Woodworth

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Speaker 1: forced himself on her in the backseat of her car

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Speaker 1: while parked on a country road, and she said Woodworth

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Speaker 1: used a knife to cut her clothing, but then she

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Speaker 1: got the knife away and stabbed him in self defense.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors say McCandless cut her own clothing to frame a

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Speaker 1: phony crime scene and set up her defense claim. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you don't know if sweater was cut. Do you

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Speaker 1: know if the sweater was torn? Do you know if

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Speaker 1: the sweater was ripped? I don't. The prosecution says this

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Speaker 1: case is about a twisted form of love. Their theory

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Speaker 1: that McCandless killed Woodworth in a desperate attempt to recapture

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Speaker 1: the relationship she had with another ex boyfriend. But the

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Speaker 1: defense says the victim Woodworth, had a twisted mind fascinated

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Speaker 1: with violence in cannibalism, and McCandless thought she was about

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Speaker 1: to be violently raped, A disturbed and obsessive of ex

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Speaker 1: boyfriend attacker, cut her, strangled her. Did I just hear cannibalism?

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Speaker 1: You're hearing our friends at ka R eleven. That's lou

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Speaker 1: Ragus speaking. Wow, this just gets crazier and crazier. But

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Speaker 1: what we learn is that this young woman that we

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Speaker 1: thought was a victim covered in blood and mud, admits

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Speaker 1: to the stabbing, but claims her boyfriend, part of a

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Speaker 1: loved triangle, attacked her. Okay, wait a minute, I don't

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Speaker 1: get it. Why would it be then that Randy Kessler,

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Speaker 1: you're the defense attorney. What do you do when your

423
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: client admits to stabbing somebody, claiming it's in self defense,

424
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: but then they take the time to carve the word

425
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 1: boy into her into their own arm. I don't know

426
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 1: what you do. You know you gotta go with what

427
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: your client tells you. Well you better think. Well, wait

428
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: a minute, wait a minute, Randy, Randy, what do you

429
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: do you get a case like this? What do you

430
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: just go into your conference room or your office and

431
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: you huddle up with all those interns and syncophats, oh

432
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: excuse me, assistance that are always following you around at

433
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: the courthouse, and you just sit there. What do you

434
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: say think people come up with something? Well, how do

435
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: you come up with something? The first thing you gotta

436
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: do is you can't let your client line. So you

437
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: got to decide do you want to hear your client story,

438
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 1: because if your client story is one that doesn't make sense,

439
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: you can't let her tell another story when you know

440
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: it's not true. So that's the first thank you. You know,

441
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I even want to hear doctor

442
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: Liz Debor. Licensed psychologists, you can find her doctor liz

443
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: lyz dot com. And self defense. How would you suddenly

444
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: just pause in the whole self defense drama and carve

445
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: the word boy into your arm? Yeah, it doesn't make sense,

446
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: does it? So I think that when we look at

447
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: the evidence, that is one of the things that just

448
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: stands out as you know, how did that happen? What

449
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: we can see is that again, very disturbed sense of

450
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: reality in this woman, and and probably a history of

451
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: self mutilation. You know, doctor Liz Debor, I'm hanging onto

452
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: one phrase. You used, a distorted sense of reality. Okay

453
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: in my world, but that means she's lying, Doctor Kendall Crowns.

454
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: Let's just down to it, doctor Crowns. The victim, Alex

455
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: Woodworth was stabbed sixteen times. I think that's why I

456
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: brought up Travis Alexander Jody Arius's victim. He was stabbed

457
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: about twenty eight twenty nine times. They couldn't really tell

458
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: because the stab ones were overlapping each other before he

459
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: was shot in the head. Dodger Kennel crowns, what if

460
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: anything about this death, says that she was acting in

461
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: self defense six day stab ones. That does not sound

462
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: like self defense to me. Well, I agree. I mean

463
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: usually when you hear self defense, it's like you stab

464
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: him once, maybe twice, and you run for it. And

465
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: I often will tell the police when we get these

466
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: cases come in and someone's claiming self dispense, I'll give

467
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: you one stab, maybe two, But once you get over five,

468
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: six eight, now we're now we're starting to talk, how

469
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: is that self defense? And in sixteen I mean and

470
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 1: in the back of the head as well. It's just

471
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: it's very very suspect that how could that be self defense?

472
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: I don't think it is okay because forensics science is

473
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: going to rule the day. I don't care what Asra mccannles,

474
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: the young woman says, I don't care what a witness says.

475
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 1: I care what the forensics tell me, because they're not

476
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: gonna lie to Bruce Johnson, what do you make of

477
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: the theory that this murder was not spur of the

478
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: moment that you may expect with sixteen sab wounds, it

479
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: sounds like a frenzy, but that it was premeditated. What

480
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: do you know about claims that Ezra McCandless Lord Alex

481
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: Woodworth just twenty four years old to that muddy road,

482
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 1: knowing what was about to happen, right Well, and here

483
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: you go in in the love triangle that usually they

484
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: end up like this very nasty, very vindictive, very conniving

485
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: means of death. So something's going on in the love

486
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: triangle and she's worried about Jason, and she's taken out

487
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: Alex for that whole story, we haven't gotten the whole

488
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: part of it too, And we haven't got into the

489
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: third part of the triangle. This is John Hanson, how

490
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: he comes into play. But basically her world is crumbling.

491
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: And if you go back just a few minutes with

492
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: her statements saving that's defensive wounds. So I want to

493
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: know based on her statement, if he's on top of

494
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: her in the car where it started, where's his first action,

495
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: where's his first stab wound? And how could he not

496
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: control her? Based on her own statement, So where's his

497
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: first stab wound to her? If she puts her hand

498
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: up and blocks it, he's still going to be able

499
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: to overcome her. So her statements fall flattened really quick

500
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: with putting him on top of her, and she's somehow

501
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 1: gonna overcome him. Take the knife, you know, stab him

502
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 1: multiple times, which she eventually admits, and then harves herself

503
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: a lot of gaps, a lot of holes. We are

504
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: starting to get a picture of a premeditated crime. Did

505
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: this nineteen year old Ezra McCanless actually lure the victim,

506
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: Alex Woodworth to his death as opposed to being some

507
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: frenzied act of self defense. Then text messages are uncovered.

508
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: Take a listen Jeff Friends at CBS forty eight hours.

509
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: Then the detective reviewed suggestive text messages Ezra had sent

510
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: to Jason's friend. Proc also interviewed Alex Woodworth, and he

511
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: did not support Ezra's version of events. He said that

512
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: Ezra told him that it was consensual, She just regretted it.

513
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: This relationship wasn't even a love triangle, it was a

514
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: love square. And those relationships began and stopped with Azrama Chambless.

515
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,959
Speaker 1: The sexual assault case was ultimately dropped, thinks in part

516
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: to Alex's statements, and Ezra was upset her world was

517
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: crumbling around her. She had created Ezra, she had created

518
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: this intricate network of lives, and they kept falling apart

519
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: and there was nothing left. There was nothing left behind it.

520
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,840
Speaker 1: Ezra moved out of Eauclaire and back home with her family,

521
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 1: but Jason says she tried desperately to win him back,

522
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: and she all of these tales about these these manipulative,

523
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: vindictive men who tried to take me away from you. Jason.

524
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: It's not me, it's them. Wow, what a mess, What

525
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: a tangled web we weave when first we practiced to

526
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: deceive Randy Kesso, r nowned defense attorney joining me out

527
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: of Atlanta. There's nothing like text messages popping up on

528
00:34:54,520 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: your client's cell phone, text messages that clearly proved claims

529
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: of self defense. It's the worst, You know, as soon

530
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 1: as you think you got it. It was good practicing

531
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: law thirty years ago, wasn't it, Nancy, At least from

532
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 1: our side, And we didn't have text message, Facebook and

533
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: posting and Snapchat and cell phone cameras and security cameras

534
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: on every building. It's a new world and dependents of

535
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: a harder time today. That's where it is. Man. You're

536
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: so right, Dave Mack. What do you make of claims

537
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,720
Speaker 1: that Ezra mcchanal's just nineteen years old lured the victim

538
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: to a bloody death, that this was not some spur

539
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: of the moment attack. The police believed that she used

540
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: her writings and the fact she wanted to talk to

541
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: Alex about how their relationship ended as a means of

542
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: getting him away from the coffee shop and everybody else

543
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: to separate him so she could be alone with Alex.

544
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: So she lured him from the coffee shop, claiming she

545
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: wanted him to look at her writing. Did you mention

546
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: earlier that there were six hundred text messages the night

547
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: before where this happened. She was texting with her ex

548
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: boyfriend Jason Mingle, and they exchanged six hundred messages, and

549
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: at no point did she ever mentioned that she was

550
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: coming to Eau Claire. So her goal, according to police,

551
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: is to lure Ezra McCanless away murder him in order

552
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: to get back with the first boyfriend, right, correct, What

553
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: do we know? Dave Matt about claims that this crime

554
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: scene was staged. Well, what police figured out was from

555
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: the time that the attack occurred in that vehicle, that

556
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: Ezra was able to take the time to set the

557
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: stage there. As we mentioned, she claimed the attack happened

558
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: in the backseat of that vehicle, but all the evidence

559
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: of the DNA, the blood, everything that was found was

560
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:52,800
Speaker 1: outside the vehicle, and police believe that Ezra took the

561
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,800
Speaker 1: time between the end of the attack, when Alex was

562
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 1: no longer able to do anything, that Ezra then took

563
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 1: the time to rip her clothing or cut her clothing

564
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: to stage herself to make it look like she had

565
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: been the victim, and that she set the stage in

566
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: that vehicle to make it appear that they had been

567
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: in this attack and Alex was the aggressor. It's believed

568
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: at that point in time that the attack on her

569
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: left arm where the boy was etched into it, that

570
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: that's what she was doing during that time between the

571
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: attack and the time she shows up at mister Sipple's farmhouse.

572
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: To doctor Kennel Crown's Deputy medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas, Austin,

573
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: doctor crowns, what suggests to you the same was staged

574
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: the way the bodies in the back of a car,

575
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: it's odd. There's blood all over the place, and then

576
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: just her ripped clothes and walking away from it, and

577
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: then of course the superficial injuries to her body. To me,

578
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: all that just sounds very set up and unrealistic. What

579
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 1: do you mean the opposite of the body in the

580
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 1: back of the car, his head's hanging out the door.

581
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 1: So if either she's trying to pull him back into

582
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 1: the car to let him die, or she's stabbed him

583
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 1: in the car and he's trying to pull out, it's

584
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: odd that his head's hanging out the doorway. She's either

585
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: trying to get out or she pulled him back in.

586
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: Although she's a very small woman, so I don't think

587
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: she could manipulate his body all that much. We are

588
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: learning that Ezra had a quote pretty in pink performance

589
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:35,319
Speaker 1: at trial. What does that mean? Dave Matt Nancy At

590
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: trial when she was on the stand, Ezra mccandles had

591
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 1: a demeanor several times. You've mentioned Jody Arius today, and

592
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: that was the comparison that people came up with that

593
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: she was so composed. She wore an outfit that made

594
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 1: her look softer, more feminine. The pretty in pink refers

595
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 1: to the pink sweater that she wore on this day

596
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 1: in court where she was on the stand and looked

597
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: like this peaceful, fragile, wonderful little, you know, flower of

598
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: a girl who could never be involved in a heinous cry,

599
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 1: A peaceful, fragile snowflake on the stand. Bruce Johnson, how

600
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 1: many times have you seen that someone present a very

601
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: different image in front of a jury than what they

602
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: really were thank the Menendez brothers. Yeah. Well, the first

603
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: noticeable thing was, you know, they changed her glasses, she

604
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 1: has makeup on him, She instantly lost her nose, ear ring,

605
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: and at times she even had a somewhat joyful demeanor

606
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: on the stand. Take a listen to this. We the

607
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 1: jury find the defendant, Ezra J. McCandless guilty. A first

608
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: degree intentional homicide is charged in the information and the

609
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,960
Speaker 1: answer to the special verted question is yes, used the

610
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: dangerous weapon. Wow, it only took the jury three hours

611
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: to vict now twenty two year old Ezra Mchamalis nineteen

612
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 1: years old at the time of murder one with a weapon.

613
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: Apparently overwhelming evidence at trial. What do they mean by

614
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: overwhelming evidence at trial, Dave Dave mac joined me from

615
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: crime Online. What were the significant facts that convicted her.

616
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: You've got the crime scene in and of itself that

617
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: doesn't match her story of what happened. You've got all

618
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: of the blood found outside the vehicle. And again you

619
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: go back to the sixteen stab wounds on Alex's body.

620
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: Was the first wound being the back of the head,

621
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: very big in the argument that, in talking about the

622
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,919
Speaker 1: lack of defensive wounds, that she was able to take

623
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: him by surprise. That was the basic thing that really

624
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: when you look at this case. Nancy her claimed that

625
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: she was the victim, that he had attacked her in

626
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: the back seat, and none of the physical evidence bore

627
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 1: that out. It was actually outside the car she was

628
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: the aggressive. What do you make of that, doctor Kendall Crowns,

629
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: Because we're hearing Dave Mack state that the victim had

630
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: no defensive wounds, that she quote took him by surprise.

631
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: How can that be proven forensically? I'm not one hundred

632
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: percent sure if you could prove that he was taken

633
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: by surprise just by the nature of his wounds, but

634
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 1: the fact that he has no defense wounds does mean

635
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: that he either didn't fight back, or she did get

636
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: him from behind initially, or one of the wounds initially

637
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: done was severe enough that he was immobilized. You know,

638
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: we know at the end of the trial she showed

639
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: no remorse, but did sob and apologize at sentencing. Another

640
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: case of me, me, me, me, me, me, me, forget

641
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 1: about him. It's all about me in the end. What's

642
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: her sentence, davemac Her sentence was life in prison with

643
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 1: the possibility for parole after fifty years. Too much, not enough?

644
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: What about it? Bradis Johnson definitely fits the crime. She

645
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 1: should not get parole. This was a hanness crime. She

646
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: overtook him, she set him up, she set up the

647
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 1: crime scene. It just goes on and on. There's a

648
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: lot of vindictiveness there, and she should not have any

649
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: cancer parole, let alone fifty years. Jorandy kesser Fier sentencing.

650
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: I'm not so much about the punishment and punish her

651
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: as much as I am about the protecting society. She's

652
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,000
Speaker 1: the kind of person that sounds that she is, that

653
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: doesn't recognize what she did was wrong and doesn't admit it,

654
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,839
Speaker 1: then I don't want her on my streets. We wait

655
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 1: as justice unfolds at this hour. Ezra McCandless plotting her

656
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 1: appeal behind bars. Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off good bye,

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Speaker 1: Send