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Speaker 1: Good morning, sweet world, and welcome to the No Dunks

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Speaker 1: podcast on the Athletic Network.

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Speaker 2: It's Tuesday, June sixteenth.

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Speaker 1: I'm still j Skeets alongside me, Tass Mellows, the Bearded One,

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Speaker 1: Tray Kirby, and our super producer JD.

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Speaker 2: And we got a very special guest today.

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Speaker 1: He is a staff writer for The Ringer and you've

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Speaker 1: heard him regularly on their NBA podcast. Before The Ringer,

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Speaker 1: he was the editor of Yahoo Sports hit NBA blog

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Speaker 1: Ball Don't Lie. He really turned that site around. In

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Speaker 1: my opinion, the previous editors were a bunch of clueless hacks.

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Speaker 2: He's your man, and he's mine. It's Dan Devine. Dan,

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Speaker 2: what's up man?

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Speaker 3: Not much.

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Speaker 4: It's a joy to be joining two of my most

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Speaker 4: esteemed bosses on this podcast.

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Speaker 3: And of course I'm talking about Tazz and JD.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, you blew my mind Dan when we asked

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Speaker 1: you to come onto this podcast to talk about a

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Speaker 1: couple of columns you recently wrote for The Ringer that

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Speaker 1: you said, the last time you think you were on

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Speaker 1: some iteration of this podcast whatever it was called at

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Speaker 1: the time, was back in twenty ten, I think you

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Speaker 1: said when we were doing like a decade ago, and

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Speaker 1: we were doing a July First Canada Day free agency

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Speaker 1: blowout show or something, and I think we had.

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Speaker 2: You on, Is that right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: My memory of that is I was at my old

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Speaker 4: nine to five job, because it was when I was

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Speaker 4: freelancing at Yahoo. I wasn't doing this as a full

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Speaker 4: time job yet, and so I was in like a

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Speaker 4: cubicle at a tech news company, having just like played

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Speaker 4: hooky to write about Kevin Durant signing an extension with

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Speaker 4: a thunder and Mattio asked me if I could come

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Speaker 4: on the show. And I had to like go into

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Speaker 4: a hallway into like a stairwell to talk to you

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Speaker 4: guys for like ten minutes on the phone. And it

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Speaker 4: was it was It felt like a rebellion. But who

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Speaker 4: knew that it would be a my future and be

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Speaker 4: the last time I would talk to you guys for

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Speaker 4: a decade.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe it's ten years ago. It's almost ten

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Speaker 2: years ago to the day. As we approached the Good

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Speaker 2: a Good July, I think Test Trey, whoever was there.

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Speaker 2: I don't even Trey, were you even there at that point?

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Speaker 2: I'm not even sure.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 3: I was the editor of balld out Lie, Dan, you

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Speaker 3: did not check in with me.

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Speaker 2: That day.

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Speaker 1: God, I think we had like a barbecue going out

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Speaker 1: on the patio.

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Speaker 2: J Yeah, yeah, Oh my god.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, dropped the camera, that's for sure.

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Speaker 3: Oh pretty hot.

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Speaker 6: I almost put the camera on the grill.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, Dad, it's great to catch up with you here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, run us through the past ten years real quick.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I was.

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Speaker 4: I was like, I mean, I would never presume to

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Speaker 4: book your show for you. But like, guys, I've been here,

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Speaker 4: I've been around.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm due. I'm due for the.

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Speaker 4: But but it makes it makes me very happy to

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Speaker 4: be here today.

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Speaker 1: Well, last week you you penned a two part column

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Speaker 1: titled the biggest off season Questions for every NBA team

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Speaker 1: not headed to Disney, And, as you wrote right off

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Speaker 1: the top of it, for all that's left unsettled and

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Speaker 1: undetermined about the NBA's plan to resume the twenty nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty seasons, this much, we know for sure that eight

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Speaker 1: teams that won't be making the trip the delete eight,

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Speaker 1: as John Hollinger has so brilliantly classified them.

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Speaker 2: That is so good.

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Speaker 1: So those eight franchises at the bottom of the standings,

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Speaker 1: you wrote about the Warriors, Calves, Wolves, Hawks, Pistons, Knicks, Bulls,

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Speaker 1: and Hornets. I thought this, I mean, you do tremendous work,

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Speaker 1: which is why you took over Bouldel Niper crying out loud.

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Speaker 1: But this was I like this because it's a little different, right,

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Speaker 1: And you know, we're obviously have done a ton of

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Speaker 1: podcasts on looking.

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Speaker 2: Forward to resuming the season.

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Speaker 1: You know what we've just heard with Kyrie Irving and

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Speaker 1: Dwight Howard and the coalition maybe about whether that's a

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Speaker 1: good idea. We've talked ton about that and we'll continue

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Speaker 1: to do so. But this was cool because it's like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we do know that there's not going to be these

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Speaker 1: eight teams, so they have started their off season. That's

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Speaker 1: the one thing we sort of know. So we'll maybe

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Speaker 1: make our way through these teams one by one. But

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Speaker 1: what was the most interesting team from these bottom eight

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Speaker 1: Dan to write about for you?

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Speaker 4: I think it's the Warriors just because there's like, all

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Speaker 4: the other teams are in sort of various stages of

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Speaker 4: building something and the Warriors are the only one that

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Speaker 4: can just like hit the gas tomorrow. You know, they

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Speaker 4: no matter what, they sort of figure out how they

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Speaker 4: want to play their their economic game, or what they

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Speaker 4: do with their draft pick, and you know how they

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Speaker 4: use their exceptions and all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: They walk into next season.

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Speaker 4: With three superstars, you know, three three all stars, and

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Speaker 4: then you know how they fit those guys around Andrew

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Speaker 4: Wiggins obviously the centerpiece of the organization. But so they're

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Speaker 4: because it's in the similar context of like the year

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Speaker 4: that David Robinson broke his foot and then the Spurs

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Speaker 4: had everything else in place around it, but like then

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Speaker 4: Tim Duncan comes in and sets the stage for the

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Speaker 4: next twenty five years. Like I don't know that we're

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Speaker 4: talking about the Warriors being able to go into that

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Speaker 4: same sort of context, But you're talking about an instant

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Speaker 4: contender that fell all the way to the bottom on

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Speaker 4: kind of fluky circumstances. So the whole board is open

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Speaker 4: to them. It's just more a matter of how they

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Speaker 4: want to play it.

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Speaker 2: Do you think is the move for them?

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Speaker 5: And do you think it's smarter to't there's not a

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Speaker 5: Tim Duncan in this draft, it doesn't seem like, but

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Speaker 5: is it smarter to bring in a young guy for

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Speaker 5: the future when you're really building around Wiggins, or is

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Speaker 5: it smarter to use that high pick and all their

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Speaker 5: exceptions to bring in another guy who's going to be

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Speaker 5: you know, title contender ready.

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Speaker 4: I think you have to you owe it to the

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Speaker 4: center pieces of your organization to try to pursue every

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Speaker 4: opportunity you can to get veteran help now or to

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Speaker 4: get to get a long term answer now sorry, to

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Speaker 4: get something that can help you reopen that championship window.

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Speaker 4: Like Stephen Curry built that franchise, Klay Thompson and grahamon

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Speaker 4: Green have put in the equity to create what a

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Speaker 4: franchise that was like a kind of a laughing stock

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Speaker 4: for many for a lot of the last couple decades,

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Speaker 4: to turn them into a perennial contender and a multiple

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Speaker 4: time champion. You owe it to those guys to try

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Speaker 4: to maximize whatever opportunities they have left. And so I

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Speaker 4: would expect that if you know, you know, Joe Lakob

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Speaker 4: and Bob Meyers and the you know, the the people

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Speaker 4: who control the money and are the brain trust behind

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Speaker 4: the moves in the organization, will look for whatever opportunities

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Speaker 4: they can to you know, if it's even if it's

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Speaker 4: eating some luxury tax money on the traded player exception.

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Speaker 4: They have that giant traded player exception from the Iguodala trade. Like,

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Speaker 4: can you get somebody that costs you fifteen million dollars?

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Speaker 4: You know, maybe it's not going to be a super

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Speaker 4: duper star, but somebody that can round out your rotation.

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Speaker 4: You're gonna have the tax payer mid level exception. Yes,

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Speaker 4: that's going to cost you a lot of extra money

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Speaker 4: in the luxury tax bill, but adds a bit, you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe a big piece to your your bench and sort

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Speaker 4: of so you're not relying so much on the younger

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Speaker 4: players like they had to throughout this season and then

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Speaker 4: the draft pick. I mean, if they see somebody that

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Speaker 4: there's guys that make a lot of sense in terms

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Speaker 4: of a fit with what they do. Like Onyeka on

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Speaker 4: Kongu from usc As like a you know, six nine

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Speaker 4: switchable center that is like a rim runner and a

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Speaker 4: great defensive player can switch one through five. You're like, shoot,

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Speaker 4: that makes a lot of sense for the way the

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Speaker 4: Warriors play. It might be tough to you know, the

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Speaker 4: value of him at like number one, it might be

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Speaker 4: hard to see. But or someone like tyree'slibert and out

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Speaker 4: of Iowa State where it's like a smart playmaker that

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Speaker 4: sort of right off the rip feels like a guy that's,

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Speaker 4: you know, a young Sean Livingston Igudalah kind of player

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Speaker 4: that can contribute with that heady playmaking. So those guys

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Speaker 4: might be able to even though they are young, they

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Speaker 4: might might be able to sort of bridge both well,

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Speaker 4: I'll walk both lanes kind of like help now and

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Speaker 4: then also be a bridge to a future. But I

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Speaker 4: think whatever whatever opportunities present themselves to get veteran help

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Speaker 4: in now established players that can support Currie and Thompson

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Speaker 4: and Draymond, I think you owe it to what those

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Speaker 4: guys have given you to pay that money and to

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Speaker 4: go for it that way.

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Speaker 6: I guess there isn't a Tim Duncan, as you said,

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Speaker 6: but reading your columns after not following the college basketball

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Speaker 6: season whatsoever, not a Tim Duncan player, but some Tim

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Speaker 6: Duncan level names, incredible names. You just mentioned Tyrese Haliburt,

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Speaker 6: and there's a Killian Hayes and the other one that

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Speaker 6: you mentioned that it's going to be the Yanni said

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Speaker 6: compo of this draft, can you pronounce it again?

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Speaker 3: Well? I can certainly pronoun i can't.

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Speaker 4: I'm not positive I'm saying it right, but I said

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Speaker 4: on Eka Okongou, but I might have that wrong.

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Speaker 6: I think you're not out of the park.

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Speaker 2: But god, I'm going to be struggling with that one

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Speaker 2: for a year. I can see it now.

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Speaker 6: Great names, yeah, maybe not great players put great names yeah, no, no.

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Speaker 1: Dan, how closely do you follow college hoops and then,

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Speaker 1: of course like the NBA draft in general, Well, if.

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Speaker 4: By follow college hoops you mean pay a lot of

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Speaker 4: attention to what Kevin O'Connor and John Sharks say, then

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Speaker 4: you know, I mean, I honestly don't watch a ton

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Speaker 4: during the season because it's just it overlaps a lot,

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Speaker 4: and it's hard enough to have something to say about

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Speaker 4: the thirty NBA teams, let alone like the one hundred

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Speaker 4: and fifty Division one and two and international teams and whatever.

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Speaker 4: So I try to pay attention to what you know

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Speaker 4: to do you know, draft coverage and the people who

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Speaker 4: are doing it, but both on an independent level, people

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Speaker 4: like the Stepian and some of those some of those

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Speaker 4: guys and you know at the bigger sites, and also

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Speaker 4: people you know, my colleagues. But I'm not watching a

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Speaker 4: ton of it. So I couldn't give you like a

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Speaker 4: real breakdown on what those guys you know, were during

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Speaker 4: conference play or whatever, but like the broad the broad

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Speaker 4: strokes of what they you know, what they might be

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Speaker 4: able to bring to the table. I think I feel

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Speaker 4: like I'm getting a better fing you know, sort of

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Speaker 4: better fingertips for that. And then but of course, you know,

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Speaker 4: all that's depending on so dependent on so many things,

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Speaker 4: and on the context they go into and the roster

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Speaker 4: around them in the minutes and the opportunities in YadA YadA.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, everything that I think I know now is

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Speaker 4: almost definitely gonna be wrong. But that's kind of the

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Speaker 4: that's the good thing I doat you guys who talked

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Speaker 4: about the years at Bought Online, Like the good news

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Speaker 4: about doing this for a long enough time and doing

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Speaker 4: like fifty posts a week is like everyone everyone forgets

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Speaker 4: when you were wrong eventually because there's just a new

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Speaker 4: thing that you can put in front of their faces.

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Speaker 4: So that's that's that's been the Dan divine model for years.

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Speaker 4: Put the flood, flood them with words, so they will forget.

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Speaker 2: So many words, so many words.

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Speaker 1: So look minus the warriors, because I think we would

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Speaker 1: all agree with you. You have Curry, you have Thompson,

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Speaker 1: you dream on and then then let's be honest, you

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Speaker 1: got Wiggans too, the real star of the bunch. They're

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Speaker 1: gonna if they're all healthy, you're gonna have one hell

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Speaker 1: of a team. Even if there's a lot money go

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Speaker 1: into those guys, something like one hundred and thirty million

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Speaker 1: dollars combined for next season, but minus the Warriors, Dan

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Speaker 1: from the Delete eight, which team do you think has

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Speaker 1: the brightest future, the immediate brightest future.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's weird to me, and I feel like, Trey,

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Speaker 4: you can, you know, pick this apart if you want to.

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Speaker 4: I feel like the I don't understand why the Bulls

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Speaker 4: aren't better given the talent, given the talent on the roster,

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Speaker 4: Like when you're going through the teams that you know

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Speaker 4: the guys that are there, and I'm like, yeah, I

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Speaker 4: like that guy, I like that guy, that guy works,

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Speaker 4: that guy was good before. Why there's like a nine

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Speaker 4: man rotation of guys I'm pretty sure are at least

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Speaker 4: pretty good. And then you're like, wait, why did they

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Speaker 4: suck again? So I feel like, now they've been there, Dan.

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Speaker 5: We all know why they suck we all know why

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Speaker 5: it was universal acclaim for the Chicago Bulls coming into

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Speaker 5: this season. Now there's a twenty two team restart and

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Speaker 5: they're not even the first team who is out of

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Speaker 5: the playoffs before the fake playoffs even begin.

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Speaker 3: Don't even get me started.

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Speaker 5: My question to you, we know, as Bulls fans, the

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Speaker 5: reason they underachieved this year, can you make any sort

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Speaker 5: of a case for why Jim Boylan should remain the

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Speaker 5: coach of the Bulls.

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Speaker 3: I mean, my case is going to primarily be content.

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Speaker 4: Based, so it's it's it's mostly about I want to

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Speaker 4: see where you once you've established the punch clock, I

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Speaker 4: want to see what the next bit is.

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Speaker 3: What's like, how do you how do you level up

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Speaker 3: for carts?

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Speaker 2: Everybody's wearing hard.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not just regular masks on the court. It's

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Speaker 4: like construction masks.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I don't I don't see it personally. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 4: one of the things I feel like we always have

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Speaker 4: to remember with coaching is that it's like an iceberg.

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Speaker 4: You know, there's the part that you see above the water,

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Speaker 4: and then everything else behind, like underneath the surface that

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Speaker 4: you know, we don't get to see on.

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Speaker 3: A day to day basis, So I'll believe.

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Speaker 4: In a lot of context like oh yeah, that guy

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Speaker 4: might not be making the you know, the rotation decision

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Speaker 4: you might want, or he's using his timeouts in a

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Speaker 4: very interesting and weird way or whatever, But like you

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Speaker 4: don't see the development work behind the scenes and how

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Speaker 4: he's building up a confidence or the way he manages

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Speaker 4: his staff or whatever. I don't think there's enough evidence

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Speaker 4: to suggest that those things, those arrows are pointing upward

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Speaker 4: for Jim Boylan off the court, you know, and then

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Speaker 4: the behind the scenes stuff. And so if the results

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Speaker 4: aren't there, and they haven't been, and you have like

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Speaker 4: multiple players who have all spoken out about not really

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Speaker 4: if nothing else, not throwing their full support behind him,

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Speaker 4: then I'm not really sure what the case is, especially

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Speaker 4: considering like the people that elevated him are now no

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Speaker 4: longer in the decision making capacity for the Bulls. So

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Speaker 4: this is like a situation where it seems tailor made

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Speaker 4: for a big change, but I'm not sure which direction

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Speaker 4: there they're gonna want to go with that.

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Speaker 1: Man, Well, you're you're preaching to the choir with having

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Speaker 1: been excited for the Bulls coming into the season. I

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Speaker 1: was just as guilty as my man, Trey Kirby. I

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Speaker 1: mean I had Jim Boylan for coach of the Year

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Speaker 1: for crying out loud, and you know, I had the

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Speaker 1: Bulls as the surprise team making the playoffs and you know,

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Speaker 1: being higher in the standings, Like yeah, like here's the

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Speaker 1: one case you said it in your article, Dan, it's

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Speaker 1: like for maybe, for maybe, and boiling around and I

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Speaker 1: don't think it'll I don't think he'll remain. They had

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Speaker 1: a lot of injuries, yeah, you know, like a ton

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Speaker 1: of injuries to some major guys marking In.

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Speaker 2: And Porter and Carter and Done and it goes on

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Speaker 2: and on.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just didn't have anyone really healthy for good

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Speaker 1: chunks of the season.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And then I mean consistency and continuity is a huge thing,

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Speaker 4: especially when you have a lot of young pieces. I think,

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Speaker 4: know the number that was their opening nights starting lineup,

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Speaker 4: Wendell Carter, Lowry, Markinen, Otto, Porter, Junior, Zach Lavine and

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Speaker 4: Tomas Ataranski. They played only one hundred and nineteen total

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Speaker 4: minutes over the course of the season, which is like,

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Speaker 4: you know, basically nothing. I think it was only nine

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Speaker 4: total games that they actually had that lineup together, so

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Speaker 4: it makes.

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Speaker 3: It really hard to get everybody slotted into their roles.

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Speaker 4: But you also still feel like, yes, it's a coach's

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Speaker 4: job is to spin plates and to figure out how

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Speaker 4: to keep things from falling down and crashing around him.

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Speaker 4: And Jim Boyle and sort of did the opposite of that.

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Speaker 4: It was like he was grabbing the plates off and

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Speaker 4: throwing them down on the ground. So I don't, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I think that if that is the best case for

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Speaker 4: keeping him around, I think he's probably gonna wind up

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Speaker 4: looking for an assistant job somewhere else before too long.

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Speaker 4: But the other thing that we have to consider is,

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Speaker 4: you know, the new GM and this is where another

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Speaker 4: name might I might Butcher, but our tourist Carnisovus. Is

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Speaker 4: that how we're saying it, car Carnichiavus. They go, okay, task,

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Speaker 4: I'll take I'll take your word for that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, well I could be lying, but yeah, go.

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Speaker 3: With it, Tass, I always believe the lies you tell me.

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Speaker 4: But he's he's made it clear that he's gonna you know,

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Speaker 4: this is like a you know, sort of stem to

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Speaker 4: stern a reevaluation approach, and he hasn't even gotten to

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Speaker 4: like be in Chicago with everybody yet because of the

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Speaker 4: pandemic and the travel restrictions and everything else.

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Speaker 3: So there's a question.

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Speaker 4: Of how like is he going to take the time

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Speaker 4: and like give everybody sort of enough opportunity to prove

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Speaker 4: themselves or not in like under the new regime. Maybe

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Speaker 4: he decides he'd rather sort of take his time and

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Speaker 4: see what else is there with a healthy roster before

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Speaker 4: making a big change like that. But it would certainly

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Speaker 4: seem that there's enough to suggest that a big change should.

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Speaker 1: Be made, especially like you said, you know, you have

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Speaker 1: Zach Levine not really going to bat by any by

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Speaker 1: any means for a guy like Boiling. It would be

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Speaker 1: maybe a different case if like the stars of the

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Speaker 1: team were like.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, we were injured. This is on me.

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Speaker 2: I could have been better. It's not the coach. We'll

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Speaker 2: we'll do this well, we'll pull this, you know together.

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Speaker 1: But it's the exact opposite, Like they're not they're not

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Speaker 1: doing that at all, like you said. So it's he's gone,

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Speaker 1: is what I'm getting at. Who's going to coach the

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Speaker 1: balls is the real question.

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Speaker 4: I Mean, one name that I know I've heard before

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Speaker 4: that I don't know how you know, how intro what

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Speaker 4: the interest level would be. But Adrian Griffin was a

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Speaker 4: guy that you know, had the the ties to the organization,

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Speaker 4: is regarded as a real has been regarded as a

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Speaker 4: really great assistant coach on a number of different teams,

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Speaker 4: you know, a defense first kind of guy. Somebody that

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Speaker 4: you know made the most out of his playing career

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Speaker 4: and then has been sort of respected along the way

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Speaker 4: on the bench. He seems like somebody that would be

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Speaker 4: a fit for, you know, like you want to get

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Speaker 4: the organization back to some sort of you know, roots

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Speaker 4: and establishing identity.

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Speaker 3: But I also don't know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Cornishevus might look for somebody that had he

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Speaker 4: has some ties to through through Denver. You know, there's

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Speaker 4: or you know, throws open sort of a wide net

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Speaker 4: for you know, whoever might have some innovative ideas and

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Speaker 4: ways to put those different pieces together. So I think

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Speaker 4: the thing the only thing that seems clear about coaching

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Speaker 4: scenarios and coaching searches is that the Knicks seem to

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Speaker 4: be starting with like big recognizable names and then like

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Speaker 4: maybe they pick one of those and everybody else sort

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Speaker 4: of starts slotting into into opportunities, but I think everybody

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Speaker 4: else seems like they're keeping a pretty open mind and

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Speaker 4: keeping it pretty close to the best.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is.

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Speaker 5: Why we were happy to have you on because maybe

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Speaker 5: the Bulls are struggling too, but at least they're not

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Speaker 5: the Knicks's that I can take as.

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Speaker 3: A Bulls fan. All Right, guys, I'm out. It was

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Speaker 3: great to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: They'll catch you in a decade, Dan, Yes.

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Speaker 3: Stay up, be safe, everybody.

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Speaker 4: I'll see you, see you when I'm legitimately forty five

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Speaker 4: years old.

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Speaker 6: All right. It's weird when talking about those two teams

399
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Speaker 6: because they're you look at their rosters. Oh yeah, guys

400
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Speaker 6: have done stuff in the league, But are there guys

401
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,240
Speaker 6: on that those two rosters that can develop into stars?

402
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,800
Speaker 6: And lowry marketing on the Bulls to me, after going

403
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,719
Speaker 6: nineteen to nine the year prior looking great just didn't

404
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:11,320
Speaker 6: flourish under Jim Boyling wattsoever. And he voiced it on

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Speaker 6: a finished podcast recently, and I just wanted to mention

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Speaker 6: this quote because it didn't get a lot up press,

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Speaker 6: I guess because it was in finish, but it's hilarious.

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Speaker 6: I had I had eighty touches per game the past

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Speaker 6: two seasons. This season, the touches dropped to forty. When

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Speaker 6: I talked to Jim, we talked about how I should

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Speaker 6: concentrate on getting rebounds and then leading the fast break.

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Speaker 6: But it's just really hard getting forty defensive rebounds. And

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Speaker 6: there you go. He turned lowry Marketing into a defensive

414
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Speaker 6: rebounder and Karnishevus is gonna say goodbye. I'm sure because

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Speaker 6: because market and I think has the potential to not

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Speaker 6: be one of the guys. He has potential to be

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Speaker 6: a start. So looking forward to next year, I think

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Speaker 6: for Marketing potentially being a little happier than he was

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Speaker 6: on that finished podcast.

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Speaker 4: I mean, you can't be out here getting dragged through

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Speaker 4: the finished streets.

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Speaker 3: You just can't be.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's it's such a bad look for

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Speaker 4: the organization. But I do think that's great. Like when

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00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 4: you think about it's, you know, like the argument a

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00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,399
Speaker 4: few years ago when Kurt Rambis was with the Knicks

427
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Speaker 4: and it was like, I mean my vision for Christas

428
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:19,200
Speaker 4: Porzingis is that he's a back to the basket three

429
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Speaker 4: And you're like, wait, wait, wait, what Like what are

430
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Speaker 4: you looking at and how does that translate to reality?

431
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Speaker 4: Like why would you look at Lowry Mark and be like,

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Speaker 4: you know what, Walton, Bill, Walton, that's what we're looking

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Speaker 4: for here, clear clear.

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Speaker 3: The glass, clear the boards.

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Speaker 4: We got the outlet out up the court, and then

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Speaker 4: run the like no, you've got to you know, like

437
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Speaker 4: you can't look at a fork and then start trying

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Speaker 4: to like dig into the ground with it. You know,

439
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:40,800
Speaker 4: like it's no that you use that to eat and

440
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 4: you do something different.

441
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 3: Big dreams, boiling man.

442
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,159
Speaker 5: He's the guy that the Bulls should average thirty assists

443
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,320
Speaker 5: per game despite the fact no team is over team

444
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 5: ever game, no players ever grabbed forty defensive rebounds, but

445
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 5: he's pushing the players to do that. My greatest fear

446
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,720
Speaker 5: is that Jim Boylan is just magnetic on zoom and

447
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 5: he's gonna win everybody over during during the video conferences,

448
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,040
Speaker 5: just a thumb with the limitless pill.

449
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,600
Speaker 1: That's it's like, well, let's let's spin this into your

450
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,959
Speaker 1: nixt Dan. You know, your question for them in this

451
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,159
Speaker 1: column was Ken Leon Rose lay a sound foundation to

452
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: build on, and that really does start with who is

453
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:17,680
Speaker 1: going to coach this team? So who do you think

454
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 1: it might be or who would you.

455
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:20,199
Speaker 2: Like it to be.

456
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 3: Well, I want to start by saying there's somebody.

457
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 4: One of the readers who responded was like, thanks for

458
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 4: kind of taking it easy on the knicks. I guess

459
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 4: maybe over the course of my career I have developed

460
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,679
Speaker 4: a reputation for not doing that so much, because you know,

461
00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 4: you hate the ones you love the most.

462
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 3: Kind of thing.

463
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:40,399
Speaker 4: I the I get the argument for Tom Thibodeau a

464
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 4: because there's a relationship previously knows through c AA with

465
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,959
Speaker 4: Leon Rose earlier in his career. And also, like I

466
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 4: get you can look at it and say established brand name,

467
00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,960
Speaker 4: ties to the Van Gundy era and defensive intensity and

468
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,159
Speaker 4: YadA yah yad. I get like the the sales pitch argument.

469
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 4: For me, if I'm looking at the available head coaches

470
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,399
Speaker 4: who have experienced, you know, head coaching experience, I'd be

471
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 4: more interested personally in Kenny Atkinson because I think you're

472
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 4: looking at a long term development project. It's more like

473
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 4: who's going to get the most out of RJ. Barrett

474
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 4: and Mitchell Robinson and then theoretically Frank Nail, Keina, Kevin Knox,

475
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,240
Speaker 4: you know, whatever the you know whoever comes in with

476
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 4: the sixth pick or the you know, the top the

477
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,120
Speaker 4: top pick this year. This is like, this is going

478
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,120
Speaker 4: to be a multi year project built around getting young

479
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,080
Speaker 4: guys better. And I think Atkinson profiles to me more

480
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,679
Speaker 4: as a developmental coach. Although there's you know, you know,

481
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 4: and Trey can speak to this too, you know, like

482
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 4: there's the argument that you know, Derrek Rose advanced under

483
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 4: under Thibodeaux and Jimmy.

484
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 3: Butler became an All Star under there. There are those cases.

485
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 4: It's just more a question, I think in the most

486
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 4: recent experience where you know, you had the TIBs in

487
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 4: Minnesota and you weren't seeing that kind of growth with

488
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 4: some of the young pieces there. It's a question of

489
00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 4: is that the kind of coach he is at this point?

490
00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 4: And is that the kind of coach you need to

491
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 4: figure You're out what you have in the cupboard at

492
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 4: this point. But to me, to me, I think if

493
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,320
Speaker 4: you're looking at the coaching search in New York, you

494
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,679
Speaker 4: have to be thinking this needs to be somebody we

495
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 4: give a very long road too, because it's got to

496
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 4: be about a developmental road map, and as we know,

497
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 4: unfortunately nobody gets a real long leash in New York

498
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 4: because it's like the plan changes every six minutes.

499
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, they have so many decisions sort of

500
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: to make this offseason whenever the hell this offseason is.

501
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 2: I guess it has started for them in a way.

502
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,399
Speaker 1: But like Bobby Portis has a team option right about

503
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: sixteen million. Whether the Knicks will you know, decline that

504
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 1: or not. They have a bunch of guys, as you

505
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: wrote on non guaranteed contracts, todsh Gibson, Wayne Ellington, Alfred Payton,

506
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 1: Reggie Bullock, Like, yeah, there's RJ, and there's Mitchell Robinson

507
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,679
Speaker 1: and then still Frank right now and Kevin Knox. But

508
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 1: it's like, what are you gonna do with all these

509
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: other guys? And I think you made the case, correct

510
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong that a lot of them you

511
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 1: think the Nick should maybe move on from and try

512
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: and find another talent. Though I think you were sort

513
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 1: of high on keeping Gibson, Is that correct?

514
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean to TODJ.

515
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 4: Gibson just seems like the kind of guy that makes

516
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 4: sense as a a placeholder, you know, like he's somebody

517
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 4: that is a steady veteran, a solid guy is not

518
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 4: going to like submarine your locker room. And he can

519
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 4: play interior defense and maybe be somebody that helps, Like

520
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 4: the two most important pieces in the organization right now

521
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 4: are r J. Barrett and Mitchell Robinson, and he can

522
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 4: help Mitchell Robinson learn, you know, the finer points of

523
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 4: interior defense, and you know, like I'll be a veteran

524
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 4: sort of a helper for him, and he can be

525
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,199
Speaker 4: somebody that can you know, set screens and open up

526
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 4: r J. Barrett, Like that guy makes sense to me

527
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 4: as somebody you would want to keep around, you know,

528
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 4: good citizen knows the you know, knows the game and

529
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 4: knows how he can contribute at this point in his career.

530
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 3: But like, and I say this, no no disrespect.

531
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 4: To the players that the Knicks brought in on those

532
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 4: short term deals, but like getting Alfred Payton his next

533
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 4: contract should not be a primary goal of this next season,

534
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,159
Speaker 4: you know, like seeing if Wayne Ellington can return to

535
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 4: being like a thirty eight percent three point shooter is

536
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,680
Speaker 4: not something that seems like it should be a big

537
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 4: goal of Golden Knicks. Yeah right, I mean I like,

538
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 4: and I like, there's a world in which those guys

539
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 4: make sense. It's just the Knicks last season, after their

540
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 4: big swings and their hopes for what they could do

541
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 4: in free agency went by the wayside. It was like,

542
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 4: let's just sign a bunch of stopgap guys and hope

543
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 4: we can like be decent enough to flirt with an

544
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,920
Speaker 4: eight seed with you know, these short term veterans. And then,

545
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 4: as it turns out, having like eight guys on a

546
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 4: contract year, isn't that great a recipe for building a

547
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 4: cohesive hole.

548
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 3: So I think you need to think.

549
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 4: I think it would be it would make more sense

550
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 4: to me if you're looking at replacing those roster spots

551
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 4: with guys you might want to make more than a

552
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 4: one year commitment to, and thinking making all of those

553
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 4: roster decisions based on how they might open things up

554
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 4: for Barrett or how they might help Robinson develop. I

555
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 4: think everything has to be about those two. And then

556
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 4: you know, you know, spending sixteen million dollars for Bobby

557
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 4: portis in a contract year.

558
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,359
Speaker 3: It does not seem like a great way to spend money.

559
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 4: But who know, the Knicks haven't exactly been known for

560
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,239
Speaker 4: their their wise management decisions in years past, so we'll

561
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 4: see for sure.

562
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:08,479
Speaker 1: I mean, as a Raptors fan, too, and I mean

563
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 1: past maybe is in the same boat. Like you see

564
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: Fred van Vliet and him coming up to a possible

565
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: huge payday still being like a pretty young guy in

566
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 1: this league and pretty damn good. Now you can argue

567
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: whether that Van Fleet could be a starting point guard

568
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: and heavy heavy minutes.

569
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we could debate that.

570
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: But I see a team like the Knicks, maybe even

571
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 1: the Pistons, like two teams he wrote about here where

572
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 1: it's like there is a glaring hole for us, you know,

573
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 1: a competent, sound point guard. And you wonder if one

574
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,199
Speaker 1: of those teams, maybe the Knicks throws some money at

575
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: a guy like Van Fleet and say, here's twenty twenty

576
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: five million a year, you're our guy.

577
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 6: I think what Skeets is saying is after he wins

578
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 6: finals MVP, well yeah, get the exactly just flood it

579
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 6: with words, Dan, I'm just making a dumb prediction. But

580
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 6: people will forget afterwards, right, But makes sense.

581
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 3: I feel it's it's weird.

582
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 4: You know, we've we've we've talked a lot about the

583
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 4: the underwhelming free agent class at twenty twenty, and you

584
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 4: know how it's you know, in all likelihood of you know,

585
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 4: if Anthony Davis decides he's going to you know, either

586
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 4: re up or extend or whatever with the Lakers, it

587
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 4: takes kind of the superstars off the market. Van Vliet

588
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 4: is a guy I could see making a ton of

589
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 4: money because, as he said, Skeet's like this is just

590
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 4: he plays a position of need and he's at a

591
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 4: stage in his career and an ability to sort of

592
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 4: fit into a few different roles. He could be more

593
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,160
Speaker 4: dominant on the ball guy. He can play off the ball,

594
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 4: he can be a catch and shoot guy. He can

595
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 4: be a second side creator, all those sorts of things.

596
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 4: He would make sense in just a ton of context.

597
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 4: He defends really well, even at a smaller size. You know,

598
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 4: like he there, you can plug him in and not

599
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 4: have to worry about it. And I think this season,

600
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 4: even though he didn't play as a primary point guard

601
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 4: when he was starting alongside Lowry, he still showed he

602
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 4: could play. He could start and play big minutes. And

603
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 4: so that's really like I feel like he's answered just

604
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,000
Speaker 4: about every question you would need to have answered from him.

605
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,959
Speaker 4: And the question is just like, are the teams that

606
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 4: have big money to spend are would he be interested

607
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 4: enough in what they can offer him to go there.

608
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 4: And I think that's like the unfortunate thing about the

609
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 4: Knicks from or one of the many unfortunate things about

610
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 4: the Knicks from this perspective of a Knicks fan is, Yeah,

611
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 4: they have a bunch of cap space to use, They

612
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,479
Speaker 4: have money to spend. Are we confident that people are

613
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 4: gonna want to take it? Because at this point, like

614
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,719
Speaker 4: if you are a marquee caliber free agent and Van

615
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 4: Vliet would fall into that category in this class, and

616
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 4: you're likely to have a few different twenty or maybe

617
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 4: even twenty five million dollars a year offers, Like are

618
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 4: you do you feel really good about the way the

619
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 4: Knicks have conducted themselves in virtually any capacity, from like

620
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 4: just the way that you know, guys can you know,

621
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 4: seem to get hired and fired with every six months,

622
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 4: to the ongoing embarrassment over their messaging surrounding the Black

623
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 4: Lives Matter movement and the ongoing protests against systemic racism

624
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 4: and police brutality, and the way that the the sort

625
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 4: of the James Dolan regime refuses to tay every time

626
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 4: they take a step forward, they take six steps back. Yeah,

627
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: you know if you're like, yeah, I mean the money spends,

628
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 4: but the money you'll spend in Detroit too, or the

629
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 4: money would spend somewhere else as well. So that is

630
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 4: like build that credibility gap of can you establish that

631
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 4: there's something to build on, something worth sticking around for,

632
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 4: something worth being a part of. That's the biggest thing

633
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 4: that faces Leon Rose. I think at this point there's

634
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 4: no reason right now to believe that the Knicks are

635
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 4: going to be meaningfully better next season than they were

636
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 4: last season, just because nobody believes that anybody's going to

637
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 4: get a chance to really do something or build that.

638
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 4: So he has to start and to sort of establish

639
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,919
Speaker 4: normalcy Easier said than done in Manhattan. But if you

640
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: can do that, if you can make a smart draft pick,

641
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 4: give minutes to the young guys to establish who can

642
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 4: play together and how well they fit, and you know,

643
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 4: maybe if you don't hit a home run in free agency,

644
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 4: at least sort of hit a couple of singles, get

645
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 4: some guys on base. You know, that's I think what

646
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 4: there needs to be something to build on as opposed

647
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 4: to just like going for broke right now.

648
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, the most unfortunate thing about the Knicks is definitely

649
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: James Stolen.

650
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: She's at the top. He's at the top of the

651
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: long list.

652
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, heaving size.

653
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 2: We can move on from that.

654
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: That's a that's a perfect side, and move on from

655
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: the Knicks. All right, we got lots more stolen disgust,

656
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: but first a quick break.

657
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,360
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Speaker 1: You know, so we talked about the Warriors, to talked

727
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: about the Bulls, the Knicks, you know, all these other teams.

728
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: What was the most confusing team Dan to write about,

729
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: like even maybe the most depressing team to write about

730
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: in their future?

731
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, depressing is an interesting question because, yeah, you are

732
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 4: dealing with a ton of teams at the bottom of

733
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 4: the rank of the bottom of the standings personally, just

734
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 4: you know, the Knicks are always going to be the

735
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 4: most depressing team for me to write about. Yeah, but

736
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 4: I think in terms of I guess sort of sizing

737
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 4: up where an organization is, I maybe felt that way,

738
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 4: like in a way where I was like a little

739
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,719
Speaker 4: bummed out when I was thinking about the Hornets, And

740
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 4: that maybe seems a little counterintuitive because they were closer

741
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 4: to the top, like I think they were tenth in

742
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 4: the East, so they were like not as far back as.

743
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 3: Some of the other you know, we know worst teams.

744
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 4: But the big question for them is just like where

745
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 4: is the star coming from for the Hornets, because the

746
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 4: Hornets are not gonna think the last real big free

747
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 4: agent that they got was like I think Al Jefferson

748
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 4: in twenty thirteen, and that wasn't like a star. That

749
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 4: was a guy who they got and then played into

750
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 4: like an all NBA level for them and was part

751
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 4: of some really good teams there. But still, you know,

752
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 4: it wasn't like a superstar free agent signing. They've never

753
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 4: been able to land that kind of guy in free agency.

754
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 4: And you know, they had Kemba Walker and then they

755
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: didn't build around him, and then they sign and trade

756
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 4: him for Terry Rozier. They stumble into what looks like

757
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 4: an absolute godsend in DeVante Graham, but that's still not

758
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 4: like the star that brings everything together. So where their

759
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 4: top end talent comes from? Because you know, you're talking

760
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 4: about a team that if the you know their lottery

761
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 4: standings right now, they would be picking eighth. Maybe they

762
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 4: jump up and they get you know, you know, one

763
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 4: of the top top flight talents in the draft. But

764
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 4: even so, you're talking about a down draft where people

765
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:00,960
Speaker 4: are a little bit less high on.

766
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 3: The all star potential of some of the talent.

767
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 4: Where are does you know Mitch cub Check find like

768
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 4: the guy to build everything around because it looks like,

769
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 4: you know, you could say p DA Washington seems like

770
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,720
Speaker 4: a guy it's gonna have like a fifteen year career

771
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 4: in the NBA.

772
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 3: Like that guy makes sense in a lot of ways.

773
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 4: Miles Bridge has shown flashes and there's you know, there's

774
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,920
Speaker 4: a lot to like, but you know, is that somebody

775
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 4: that can be Can those two guys play together is

776
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 4: another question where they you know, they're gonna play super

777
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 4: small with what PV at the five, Like, I don't

778
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 4: know if that's gonna be a workable solution for them.

779
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 4: So is that like one guy or the other. You know,

780
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 4: does Graham Rosier backcourt work? And you know, how does

781
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,240
Speaker 4: that sort of come together? Where do you find playmaking

782
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 4: on the wing? Now that Nick Patum is on a

783
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 4: different path in his career. You know, there's all these

784
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 4: sort of questions for like pieces that might make some sense.

785
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 4: You need this like the centerpiece though, and I don't

786
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 4: really know where they get that. So thinking about that,

787
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 4: like you have other things that seem kind of cool,

788
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: but not the thing that makes it all go is

789
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 4: kind of like, man, where do you find that?

790
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know they are. They are definitely, I think

791
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,759
Speaker 2: one and more depressing teams to talk.

792
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 5: They have replaced the Orlando Magic for me as the

793
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 5: most anonymous team in the league. And like you're saying, Dan,

794
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 5: there's not a marquee draft pick out there right now.

795
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 5: They could have some cap space and there's not a

796
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 5: marquee free agent. It looks like twenty twenty one is

797
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 5: probably the year when they actually might be able to

798
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 5: get something going a little bit, a little bit more

799
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 5: forward momentum. I know, they were close to getting into

800
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 5: the playoffs. But there are a lot of these teams

801
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 5: that have some sort of cap space for not a

802
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 5: great crop of free agents. Who do you think is

803
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,359
Speaker 5: going to be the team that says, we don't care,

804
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,120
Speaker 5: We're gonna spend a lot of money. We're gonna be

805
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 5: the team that brings in Denilo Gallinari.

806
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 4: Well, I think the team's gonna spend a lot of money,

807
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 4: like the Knicks are going to spend money to a

808
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 4: matter of whether it's going to be for anybody good

809
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 4: and or just to retain all of the guys that

810
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 4: they brought in. The team that I that I see

811
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 4: as being a team that should just take a shot.

812
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 3: At it is Atlanta.

813
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 4: I think that, like the Hawks have a piece unlike

814
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 4: any of the other teams that we're talking. But I

815
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 4: guess the exception of Minnesota with Towns, they have like

816
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 4: an all star at a real important position, a guy

817
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 4: who's like an offensive engine unto himself in Trey Young.

818
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 4: And Trey Young, I mean, we've heard the rumblings last

819
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 4: year that he's already talking about like I need more

820
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 4: help than we need to, you know, we need to

821
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 4: get this thing going even though it's still very early

822
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 4: in the life cycle of that organization at this point.

823
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 4: But when you've got a guy that's like twenty eight

824
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 4: to nine or whatever he was like like and you

825
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 4: know where the offense just absolutely falls off a cliff

826
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 4: when he's not on the court, you need, I think

827
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 4: it behooves you to try to, you know, accelerate a

828
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 4: little bit.

829
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: And it's not just about they've built that.

830
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 4: Team to this point trying to very sort of carefully

831
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 4: construct fill in roster rolls around him. You know, here's

832
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 4: our long defenders, here's our rim running big man with Capella.

833
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 3: Well that's the other thing.

834
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 4: You know, they've they've identified that they intend to make

835
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 4: the playoffs next year. They you know, they make the

836
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 4: trade for Capella, they make the trade for Dwayne Deadman

837
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 4: so they can have rim protection forty eight minutes a game.

838
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 4: Like they've they've identified this is we think we're ready

839
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 4: to move and we have need to spend where they

840
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: I mean, whether somebody like Gallinar, I mean, there's it's

841
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 4: weird to think about with Trey Young being as you know,

842
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 4: as prolific a shooter as he is, but they could

843
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,399
Speaker 4: use shooting, they really could. You know they need more,

844
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 4: uh you know, legitimate shooting around him, whether that makes

845
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 4: sense where you've already got Collins and you've got you know, uh,

846
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 4: you know, the two centers of this brought in so

847
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 4: where that fits as far as the front corp rotation,

848
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 4: I'm not sure if he's necessarily the guy for them,

849
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 4: one guy that I mean, it'll be at the top

850
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:27,839
Speaker 4: of just about everybody's wish list in the in free

851
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 4: agency this summer. I I may I think they should

852
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 4: make New Orleans match a MAX.

853
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 3: For Brandon Graham. Like, let's see, I thought that was.

854
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 2: An interesting part of your breakdown of this team.

855
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 1: I think there's like, even if we all think the

856
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: Pelicans would match in a heartbeat of keeping Brandon Ingram,

857
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 1: I think there's actually something to that for the Hawks

858
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: and that message it sends to Trey Young gain.

859
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, show show that we're we you know, we care

860
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 4: about this. We're willing to go out and and you know,

861
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 4: put out the put out. Pay whatever it would cost

862
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 4: to try to put a prime talent with you, Somebody

863
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 4: that can play off of you, Somebody that can take

864
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 4: the reins when you hit the bench to keep us afloat,

865
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 4: Somebody that can play the three. And yes, they you know,

866
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 4: they've draft, they've invested draft capital and guys.

867
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 3: All over the wing.

868
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 4: But you know, you can build around you can slot

869
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 4: Ingrim into a few different spots in the rotation and

870
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 4: have it make sense. And those guys, you know, the

871
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 4: other guys that they've drafted the last couple of years,

872
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 4: Cam Reddish and DeAndre Hunter, like, they're still complementary pieces

873
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,760
Speaker 4: that you could use around another sort of center piece player.

874
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 4: So I mean, and you're right, I mean, if nothing else,

875
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 4: it sends a message. It shows we believe in you

876
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 4: enough that we're going to, you know, go all in here,

877
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 4: and you know, who knows, maybe you get lucky. And

878
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,320
Speaker 4: I think this summer would be the one where I

879
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 4: would worry a little bit less about having your cap

880
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 4: space tied up for a few, you know, like a

881
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 4: couple of days while New Orleans can make a decision

882
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 4: to match, Like, it's not like you're necessarily going to

883
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 4: miss out on a ton of opportunities in the market.

884
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 3: I don't think.

885
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 4: I think it's more like you target, you try to

886
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 4: shop at the top of the market and see where

887
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 4: it gets you. Because I think that like they they've

888
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 4: clearly established that they want where the direction they want

889
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 4: to go in and they've got one piece to get there.

890
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: Now it's time to see if you can get another.

891
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: And what do you think about John Collins and what

892
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: they should do with him? You know, you said the

893
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,479
Speaker 1: Hawks are projected to have close to like fifty million

894
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: dollars in cap space. He's available for a contract extension.

895
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: But do you sit on that? Do you try and

896
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: throw that money at someone like an Ingram like you

897
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 1: know that's a bit of a hail Mary, but like

898
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 1: a Bogdanovich or Joe Harris? Or do you make John

899
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,439
Speaker 1: Collins an offer now? And is he, in your opinion, Dan,

900
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: like sort of max money material.

901
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a it's a fascinating question. It's something we've

902
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 4: talked about so much over the years. Like guys that

903
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 4: you might not think of as quote unquote max guys

904
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 4: are getting max deals. You know, it's it's a matter

905
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: of you know, the rookie max looks different than the

906
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 4: veteran you know, the ten year vet max and whatever else.

907
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 3: But I it's.

908
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 4: I don't know if Collins statistically the case is there,

909
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 4: Like I mean, the the a very short list of

910
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 4: guys who have been as productive in terms of points

911
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,760
Speaker 4: and rebounds and you know, field goal percentage, et cetera,

912
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 4: as he has been through the first three years of

913
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 4: their career. It's like All Star, All Star, All Star,

914
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 4: All Star, All Star John Collins, and so he's you know,

915
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 4: you can make the argument for it.

916
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 3: He's getting better.

917
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 4: He's over the course of the last season, stretched out

918
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 4: his game to the three point line. He's showing you

919
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 4: an indication that maybe he'd be able to fit in

920
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,719
Speaker 4: as more of a stretch piece when you need when

921
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 4: you have a paint bound big like Capella. There's a

922
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 4: versatility to his game, and he's gotten better year over year.

923
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 4: So I think that there's an argument for just investing

924
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 4: in him and saying, you know, we drafted you, we've

925
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 4: developed you, we believe in you, and we're going to

926
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 4: go for it. There's also a lot of uncertainty though,

927
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 4: because you're not going to get to see what that

928
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 4: team looks like, what the roster looks like with Capella

929
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 4: alongside him before you'd have to make that decision so

930
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 4: I can see. And then with with restricted free agency,

931
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 4: they would retain the right of first refusal and be

932
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 4: able to match a new offer sheheet he got. So

933
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 4: the concern in not doing the deal upfront is you

934
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 4: sour him on sticking with you, and then you're like,

935
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 4: he's pissed off and you have to you know, make

936
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 4: good later. And yeah, you keep him around on a deal,

937
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 4: but you're keeping around somebody who doesn't want to be there.

938
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 3: I don't have maybe I haven't seen any indication that that's.

939
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 4: Necessarily where things are going to go for Collins in Atlanta,

940
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 4: but I think it would make sense to me to

941
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 4: go and see if you can take that big swing

942
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 4: up front. If you don't have success with that, you

943
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 4: move toward extension talks and then see if you can

944
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 4: lock those two guys in and see where else you

945
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 4: might be able to fit new pieces as you go forward.

946
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 6: I wonder if him getting suspended for twenty five games

947
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 6: this past season allows the Travis Shlank and the Hawks

948
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 6: run office to say, hey, you kind of ruined our

949
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 6: season last year, so give us this year without us

950
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 6: having to give you an extension, and then you know,

951
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 6: we'll talk. We'll talk well. Because it is a huge

952
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 6: question if he'll be able to be a stretch for

953
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 6: beside clin Copella and not the primary pick and roll

954
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 6: partner for Tree Young, but his defense will probably look

955
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 6: a lot better playing with clinc Copella. And I agree,

956
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 6: it's such a it's an interesting roster that looks extremely promising,

957
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 6: and then you put it up against the Minnesota Timberwolves,

958
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 6: who who you slipped in there, also have an All

959
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 6: Star and All NBA player on their team. In Karl

960
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 6: Anthony Towns have a great big like John Collins, have

961
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 6: a great guard Dangel Russell, and Trey Young.

962
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 3: But it's not as promising.

963
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 6: It's for me, it's not as promising, I guess because

964
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 6: Karl Anthony Town's has been there for so long and

965
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 6: it just hasn't it just hasn't come together all that well.

966
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 6: How many years do you think Karl Anthony Towns gives

967
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 6: this experiment with D'Angel Russell now Malik Beasley, who Grison

968
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 6: Rosas made a great deal to get. Is there is

969
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 6: there a timeline? Is that because that because he said

970
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 6: Trey Young was there were some rumors about him being

971
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 6: somewhat upset for Karl Anthony Towns has been in this

972
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 6: league for five years, and you know there's obviously the

973
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 6: the flashbacks of Kevin Garnett being in Minnesota and having

974
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 6: to get out. How long do you think that experiment

975
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 6: runs with with D'Angel Russell. Is it years at two

976
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 6: years or are they just going to be buds and

977
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 6: are they just going to roll together until it, you know,

978
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 6: falls apart.

979
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's probably you're probably pretty solid

980
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 4: through next season because they're you know, they barely got

981
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 4: I think it was twenty five minutes of one game

982
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 4: before Towns got hurt, which is like it's it's just

983
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 4: like absolutely mind blowing that every time they like it

984
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 4: feels like they're going in the right direction, something bad happens.

985
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 4: But so you have, I mean, the good news for

986
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 4: Rosess and and for the brain trust there is that

987
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 4: they've got those guys locked up through the end of

988
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 4: twenty two twenty three before Rick Russell goes into in

989
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 4: time recricret free agency, and then Towns is still under

990
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 4: contract for a year after that, so there's time to

991
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 4: build with those two guys. The question, of course, I mean,

992
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 4: this was the question before they made the deal, was like,

993
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 4: is that a two man corps you can feel good

994
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 4: building around? Like do you feel like I mean, the

995
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 4: thing for me with Towns, as great as he is offensively,

996
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 4: and he's unbelievable offensively, it's just have we seen at

997
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 4: any evidence that he's able to play like quality NBA

998
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 4: defense consider instantly enough to make that a playoff team

999
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 4: without somebody, I guess screaming at him.

1000
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,240
Speaker 3: The entire time, you know, for four eighty two games, and.

1001
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: I think the question. So it's it's funny we lump

1002
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 4: these two teams together. I was talking to somebody earlier

1003
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 4: in the season. I can't say last season because now

1004
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 4: we're going back to it, but earlier in the season,

1005
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 4: and I was like, I was trying to sort of

1006
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 4: pitch this idea that Towns is kind of like big

1007
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 4: man Trey Young, and Trey Young is kind of like

1008
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 4: point guard Carl Towns, where I'm like, I know the

1009
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 4: numbers are sick, and I know the production is crazy,

1010
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 4: and I know what this guy does at an elite level.

1011
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 4: I just I'm not always positive if it's going to

1012
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 4: lead to a good team ever, because you have to

1013
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 4: like there's so much With Trey it's the you know,

1014
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 4: the defensive issues and being undersized, and with Towns it's

1015
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 4: I don't know that I can believe that I have

1016
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 4: reason to believe yet that he can be the back

1017
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 4: line anchor on a really good defense. And that's always

1018
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 4: going to limit the ceiling because if you're playing him

1019
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,720
Speaker 4: at the four, then you need like another defensive five,

1020
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 4: and then your offense. The geometry of the offense looks

1021
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 4: weird because as great a shooter as Towns is, do

1022
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 4: you really want him twenty five feed away most possessions?

1023
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 3: And so there's all those sorts of questions.

1024
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,200
Speaker 4: About the way the floor looks if you pair him

1025
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 4: with another big and then if you just play like

1026
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 4: Rosas has said, he wants to play one big one

1027
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 4: point three wings, well, then Towns has to be that.

1028
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: He has to be there.

1029
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,439
Speaker 4: He has to be the center, barking out the calls

1030
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 4: on the defense and controlling the paint. And I don't

1031
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 4: know that we've really seen evidence that that he can

1032
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 4: do that at a high level. So what a what

1033
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 4: a defense looks like for big minutes with Russell at

1034
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 4: the point and Towns at center, I think is going

1035
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 4: to be really interesting to see who those three wings

1036
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,319
Speaker 4: in the middle are and how they play is going

1037
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 4: to be a big, big question. So if it's like

1038
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 4: say Malik Beasley, Josha Kogi and Jarrett Culver. I mean,

1039
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 4: I can see that, like you sketch that out on

1040
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 4: an envelope and you're like, all right, I get that.

1041
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 4: That makes some sense to me, But you have to

1042
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 4: see what that looks like with young guys over big minutes.

1043
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 4: And I don't really know what the answer is there,

1044
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 4: but my guess is because they barely got any time

1045
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 4: to run with it this season. Next season is sort

1046
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 4: of the laboratory for that. And then if it's a

1047
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 4: disaster next season heading into the summer at twenty twenty one,

1048
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 4: that's when you start to sort of see if townsco

1049
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 4: is grumbling or if somebody wants to make a big move.

1050
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1051
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: What I love about a Dan Devine deep dive is

1052
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: I always learn something or I'm reminded of something, And

1053
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: with your Wolves part, I was totally reminded of you know,

1054
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 1: a task slipped in there, just how valuable Malik Beasley

1055
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 1: was in Minnesota, Like I was, averaging twenty one points

1056
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 1: per game, shooting lights out from three, shooting a ton

1057
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: of threes. He reportedly rejected a three year, thirty million

1058
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: dollar extension from the Nuggets last offseason. Do you have

1059
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: any idea what's gonna take for the Wolves team to

1060
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 1: keep a guy like Malik Beasley.

1061
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 4: I think it's a great question, because restricted free agency

1062
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 4: in a market like this is probably gonna be pretty weird.

1063
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 4: You know, like we still don't know what the economic

1064
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 4: fallout of the you know, coronavirus shutdown is outside of

1065
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 4: just that it's huge and that a lot of teams

1066
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 4: are gonna have less operating income and they're gonna be

1067
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 4: We don't know what the CAP's gonna look like. We

1068
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 4: don't know what the expense, you know, what it's gonna

1069
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 4: do to teams projected cap space. We don't know what

1070
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 4: the market's gonna look like for you know, players, even

1071
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 4: at the top of the market. And we were talking

1072
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 4: about Van Vliet, is he like there's a pretty big

1073
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 4: difference between twenty million dollars a year and twenty five

1074
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 4: million dollars a year, you know, So what like for

1075
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 4: a guy like Beasley who doesn't have the same level

1076
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 4: of you know, the same track record of production. You know,

1077
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 4: he was like a sort of unleashed when he got

1078
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,000
Speaker 4: to Minnesota because it was the first time he wasn't

1079
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,960
Speaker 4: playing behind a bunch of other sort of top scoring threats.

1080
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 4: So you've seen that for like what ten to fifteen games.

1081
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 4: Is that something where you're gonna say, I'm gonna pay

1082
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 4: fifteen million.

1083
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 3: Dollars a year for that? I don't know.

1084
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 4: I mean, the one thing that we know is that

1085
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 4: Grison Rosas has said he's he wants he doesn't want

1086
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 4: either Beasley or want Sugar hern On Golemez to go

1087
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 4: anywhere like those guys. He believes that they are like

1088
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 4: core foundational pieces or at least places that you want

1089
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 4: to keep around the Russell Town's core. So you get

1090
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 4: the I mean, the sense is that you probably have

1091
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 4: to pay up for that because you don't see that

1092
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 4: Minnesota is going to get.

1093
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 3: A whole lot of top flight free agents otherwise.

1094
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 4: So I think I wouldn't be surprised if Beasley start,

1095
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 4: I mean, he's going to start looking at more than

1096
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 4: ten million dollars a year.

1097
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 3: How how much.

1098
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,480
Speaker 4: Above that Minnesota is gonna be willing to go, I

1099
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 4: don't know, But I think I guess is that he

1100
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:02,399
Speaker 4: stays there. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle and it's

1101
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:06,239
Speaker 4: more like three thirty six or you know, something like that,

1102
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 4: four and fifty something like that, as opposed to something

1103
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 4: that's way way higher, because I'm not sure, I'm not

1104
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 4: sure what the market's gonna look like for him.

1105
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that. Well, we're good.

1106
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: Forty five minutes in here, and there's two teams we

1107
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: haven't talked about that you wrote about.

1108
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised at all. They're the Calves and the Pistons.

1109
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 4: All right, guys, clear out the next forty five the

1110
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 4: next forty five minutes.

1111
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 3: Just on the Calves.

1112
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: So yeah, so the Calves and the Pistons of those

1113
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: two teams. You know, you're trying to figure out sort

1114
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: of where those teams go, what's their identity, where, what

1115
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: are they even building around? So we can tackle both

1116
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: of them. But which team you have more faith in

1117
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: between Cleveland and Detroit of picking a lane and committing

1118
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: to it and maybe you know, getting back back into

1119
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: the mix of an Eastern Conference playoff ers?

1120
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 3: Can I say neither?

1121
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 5: Yes?

1122
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 4: You can, sure, yeah, because I think that. I mean,

1123
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 4: for one thing, you know, we talked about this with

1124
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 4: the Knicks a little bit, like ownership uncertainty is a

1125
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 4: huge factor here, and like Dan Gilbert is a pretty

1126
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 4: volatile owner, and you know, we we there's picking a

1127
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,600
Speaker 4: direction of sticking with it has not necessarily been a

1128
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 4: forte in any non Lebron James year that the Cavaliers

1129
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 4: have have operated.

1130
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 3: So I mean, I don't know they are.

1131
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 4: They are a team that's sort of like, yeah, it's

1132
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 4: like a bell like you're a bell curve, you know,

1133
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 4: like you're thick on either side and you're like lost

1134
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 4: in the middle. Like there, they have a bunch of

1135
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:29,839
Speaker 4: bigs and they got a couple of guards that need

1136
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 4: to play, and then they have no wings and it's like,

1137
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 4: I don't know, And maybe the answer is like Kevin

1138
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,600
Speaker 4: Porter Junior at the three more. Maybe the answer is

1139
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 4: Larry Nance Junior as a Giant three. I don't know,

1140
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 4: but like they've got to figure that out to have

1141
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 4: a sense of like what a balanced roster looks like.

1142
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1143
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 4: And then I get one of the things that I

1144
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 4: sort of wrote in the thing about the Cavs was

1145
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 4: it's the moves individually made some sense, like as you

1146
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,640
Speaker 4: string them along across the last couple of years, but

1147
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 4: as a whole, like I don't understand what that roster

1148
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 4: is like what's what's your your best starting lineup given

1149
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 4: the pieces they've got there, assuming Tristan Thompson leaves, which

1150
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 4: I don't even know if they want him to leave,

1151
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 4: I don't know if they're gonna they maybe they'll make

1152
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 4: an offer to try to extend him or whatever. But like,

1153
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 4: is your best team like Andre Drummond, Kevin Love, Jetty, Osmond,

1154
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 4: Garland and Sexton?

1155
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 3: Is that your best five? And if so, what the

1156
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 3: hell kind of team is that?

1157
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1158
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 3: Is outside of like a team that.

1159
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,240
Speaker 4: Probably finishes twenty eighth in defensive efficiency and loses fifty games.

1160
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 4: I don't I don't know. And and so that's like

1161
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 4: similar to the Knicks. They've got a lot of those

1162
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 4: young guys where we don't know, we don't know for

1163
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 4: sure what they are yet maybe got maybe Colin Sexton's

1164
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 4: sort of destiny is that he's Lou Williams, I don't know,

1165
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:41,720
Speaker 4: And that will be like an awesome outcome for his career,

1166
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 4: but it's not necessarily an awesome outcome for the Calves.

1167
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,920
Speaker 4: And maybe Darius Garland looks a lot better in year

1168
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 4: two because playing a point, playing the point as a

1169
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 4: teenager with like no college experience, because he got hurt

1170
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 4: really early at vander but like that was an awfully

1171
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 4: rough situation for him to walk into. So maybe with

1172
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 4: some reps under his belt and some more time to develop,

1173
00:50:59,200 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 4: that looks good too.

1174
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 3: But I don't know.

1175
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's they they confuse me, I think as much

1176
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 4: as any team because I don't I just don't understand

1177
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 4: what they're trying. There are a few years into a rebuild,

1178
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 4: and I don't know what the rebuild is supposed to do,

1179
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 4: so that that one sort of confuses me and the Pistons,

1180
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,160
Speaker 4: like if nothing else, at least there at the beginning

1181
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 4: of something like it is just like and and and

1182
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 4: honestly they're even like year zero of that because it's

1183
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,080
Speaker 4: it all is going to depend on what they do

1184
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:27,120
Speaker 4: with Blake Griffin and then to a lesser extent, with

1185
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 4: Derek Rose. If they keep those guys around, maybe they

1186
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,319
Speaker 4: like flirt with the eighth Seed again. But there there's

1187
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 4: the only young piece that you feel like is a

1188
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,120
Speaker 4: you know, is going to matter in a few years

1189
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 4: is Seku Doumboya, Like that's kind of it. Everything else

1190
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 4: is sort of like I don't know, you know, is

1191
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 4: is Luke Canard gonna be somebody that's like a building

1192
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 4: block piece for us. I don't know, or you know,

1193
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 4: is Bruce Brown and Kyrie Tom I don't know.

1194
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 3: There's so many, like everybody.

1195
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: High on, but do we really know that he's going

1196
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: to be like a legit, legit NBA player? No, I

1197
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: mean it's obviously a super small say, looks like he's

1198
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: a talented guy.

1199
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 4: But yeah, but also and also is Christian would even

1200
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 4: going to be there? Because Christian? Because you're talking about

1201
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 4: teams with money to spend, it's like, why not spend

1202
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 4: money on it? Like a twenty however old he is,

1203
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 4: I think it's like twenty four years old on a

1204
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,879
Speaker 4: you know, like six or eleven stretch big who can

1205
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 4: be a rim runner and can like block shots and

1206
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 4: hit threes. Like maybe that's a guy that gets paid

1207
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 4: a ton of money this summer. So it's like, because

1208
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:25,439
Speaker 4: you know, they won't do the idea that like, yeah,

1209
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:27,439
Speaker 4: there's not a big sample, but the lights are on,

1210
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 4: and you want to be paying for somebody on the

1211
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 4: ascent as opposed to somebody that you know has already

1212
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,040
Speaker 4: proven more but it has less runway.

1213
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 3: So I don't know, Yeah, I think that they're they're they.

1214
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 4: At least have one bankable big player in Blake Griffin

1215
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 4: at the moment if he's healthy, and they also have

1216
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 4: the opportunity to like clear the decks if they can

1217
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 4: to move forward with that, there's at least like a

1218
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 4: clearer path toward a.

1219
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 3: Rebuild in Detroit and then in Cleveland. I don't know.

1220
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,399
Speaker 3: That feels like the waters are kind of muddy, but.

1221
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

1222
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 1: But you wrote, and I thought it was spot on

1223
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,200
Speaker 1: about that idea of just blowing it up. Let's say,

1224
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: if you are the Pistons, like, okay, we try and

1225
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: get a trade out there for Blake Griffin or Derek

1226
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: Rose whatever. But you wrote, committing to suck is hard.

1227
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: Doing it in a market where you're already struggling to

1228
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: fill the seats is harder, which is true in Detroit.

1229
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: And doing it in the aftermath of a season stop

1230
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 1: it due to a pandemic that's wreaking havoc on balance

1231
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: sheets across the league might be the hardest of all. Like,

1232
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: holy hell, yeah, one hundred percent agreed with that. That's

1233
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:26,600
Speaker 1: why they're a fascinating team. It's like, yeah, maybe you

1234
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: should just really keep leaning into blowing it up and

1235
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: just go with Ceku and what do you got.

1236
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 2: In Luke Kenard?

1237
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 1: But like, oh, can you literally just financially convince yourself

1238
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 1: that's the right path in the immediate future.

1239
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1240
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that that's something. I mean, there's

1241
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 4: a reason that Tom Gores and that ownership collective has

1242
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 4: been like focused on trying to make the playoffs every year.

1243
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 4: Like it sounds really paltry to say all it guarantees

1244
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 4: you is like a two home playoff games and the

1245
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 4: gates off that and you know, like maybe a flirting

1246
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 4: with relevance before you get swept out of the first round.

1247
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 4: But like that's not nothing if you or a franchise

1248
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,280
Speaker 4: that doesn't have, you know, an established track record of

1249
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 4: being good. And it's been a long time since we've

1250
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,439
Speaker 4: seen like a really good Pistons team, So you got

1251
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 4: to start somewhere, and so maybe like the middle ground

1252
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 4: for me there is like you sort of dangle you

1253
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 4: see what might be out there for Blake. My guess

1254
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 4: is it's going to be a pretty complicated market to

1255
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 4: build because of his injury issues and because of how

1256
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 4: much money's left on that sle on that contract. But

1257
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 4: you see what's out there, if there's a way for

1258
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:30,240
Speaker 4: you to get off of that without you know, sending

1259
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,319
Speaker 4: your entire draft future, you know, maybe you think about it,

1260
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 4: but if not, like a right, it's it's play the

1261
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 4: kids as much as you can, but play them around

1262
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 4: Blake and hope that he can sort of be the

1263
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 4: rising tide to lift all boats like he was two

1264
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 4: seasons ago, as opposed to guy who couldn't stay healthy

1265
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 4: like last year. And then you know, flirting with the

1266
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 4: eight seed isn't isn't the sexiest thing in the world,

1267
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 4: But you know, some places it makes more sense.

1268
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, at the very least, maybe these two teams could

1269
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,400
Speaker 5: just continue doing business with each other. Right, last year

1270
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 5: we had Andre Drummond for a bag of beans. Maybe

1271
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 5: they could do Blake Griffin for Kevin Love. Two guys

1272
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 5: who just need to change positions, basically change scenarios for what.

1273
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: I feel like it's oppressing it really is, dude twenty nineteen.

1274
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 3: Like, coming into the twenty nineteen.

1275
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:13,959
Speaker 5: Season, it would have been an easy preview question who's

1276
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,319
Speaker 5: most likely to be traded Blake Griffin or Kevin Love?

1277
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 3: Heading into twenty twenty one, who's most likely to be

1278
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 3: traded Kevin Love or Blake Griffin, just so, yeah, leave

1279
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:22,520
Speaker 3: for each other.

1280
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,439
Speaker 4: They can swap for one another, and then those two

1281
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,719
Speaker 4: teams can continue to play one another every other night

1282
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 4: at seven o'clock on League Pass for the next six months,

1283
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 4: and everyone will be like, oh, yeah, wait, haven't those

1284
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 4: guys played thirty four times this season?

1285
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1286
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: You always, you know, the the NBA diehards at least

1287
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: watched the first I don't know what fifteen twenty minutes

1288
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: of most Pistons Cavs games because it's the only game

1289
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: on usually if that's summer o'clock.

1290
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 2: And then you move on to the more exciting games.

1291
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 4: It's when I present all of my takes about how

1292
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,960
Speaker 4: Jeddi Osmond is developing. Those are the first half of

1293
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 4: the first quarter of one of those games.

1294
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 3: Before I flick out.

1295
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,720
Speaker 6: Oh, you mentioned Andre Drummond that you reminded me of

1296
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 6: his player option. He can just walk into twenty eight

1297
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,479
Speaker 6: point eight million dollars next year with the Cleveland Calves

1298
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 6: if he decides to. My question is about a couple

1299
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 6: other players along with Drummond who would be questioned big

1300
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 6: time if they didn't take this amount of money. Andre

1301
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 6: Drummond twenty eight point eight with the Calves Auto Porter

1302
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 6: with the Chicago Bulls twenty eight and a half million

1303
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 6: he can take next year, and Nikola Batoum the Charlotte

1304
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 6: Hornets he can go into twenty seven million. So it

1305
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 6: would seemingly all three of those, of course they're going

1306
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 6: to take it. But is there one guy who would

1307
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 6: you pick out of those three after researching all these

1308
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 6: eight teams would be the likeliest to walk away from

1309
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 6: that big lump sum of money.

1310
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 4: In terms of a guy who might walk away and

1311
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 4: be able to still get like a big deal off

1312
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 4: the under their end of that, I guess it's interesting

1313
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 4: it would be either Drummond or Porter because Drummond has

1314
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 4: the track record and like sort of a brain name

1315
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 4: that you know, you could see somebody else saying they

1316
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 4: want to pay big for him, but that the skill

1317
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,319
Speaker 4: set and what he brings, I don't know.

1318
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 3: I think that the league is kind of.

1319
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 4: Onto that, not maybe being like he's good, but is

1320
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 4: he helping you? Or how much is he helping you?

1321
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 4: It's sort of always been the big question with Drummonds.

1322
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 4: So I wonder if a good team is going to

1323
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 4: be would be willing to pony up for him porter

1324
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 4: because he's you know, he's a wing that can shoot

1325
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 4: like and it can defend a few positions, Like every

1326
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 4: team in the league needs more of those guys always,

1327
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 4: So it would despite him coming off of like an injury,

1328
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 4: a couple of injury played seasons where he didn't you know,

1329
00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:35,479
Speaker 4: I think he was only fifty six games two seasons ago,

1330
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 4: fourteen games this season. You know that they're still value

1331
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 4: in like a twenty seven year old wing like that.

1332
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 3: So I could see that.

1333
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 4: But my real answer is, I'm guys, I feel like

1334
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 4: it's batoom because there's a.

1335
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 3: Our colleague, d J.

1336
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,640
Speaker 4: Foster at the Ringer was writing about teams in diff

1337
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:54,120
Speaker 4: the different divisions, and he was talking about Batoom in

1338
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 4: the context of his fellow Frenchman Boris do where it's like,

1339
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 4: remember when everybody thought Boris di I was just gonna

1340
00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 4: like play out the string as like an overweight dude

1341
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 4: on a bad team in Charlotte, And then it was like, actually,

1342
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,280
Speaker 4: you get him to a good team, you sort of

1343
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 4: relight the pilot light on him and he winds up

1344
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 4: having a whole second act to his career where he's

1345
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 4: hugely important on good teams that understand how to use him.

1346
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 4: I wonder if there's a world where Batum decides he

1347
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 4: wants to get out of Charlotte. He made his money,

1348
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 4: but then he wants to go into a more competitive

1349
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,240
Speaker 4: situation and see where if there's like a world for

1350
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 4: him to be like a super sub sixth man, you know,

1351
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 4: like somebody else's iguidala or something like that. You know,

1352
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 4: I can kind of I could see that he's already

1353
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 4: made a bunch of money, so it's a little bit

1354
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 4: easier for him to walk away from money into a

1355
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 4: different set of circumstances, so that that tracks to me.

1356
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,360
Speaker 4: But then, you know the other side of it is like,

1357
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 4: are you turning down the giant you know, player optic?

1358
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 4: You can do that next year, man, Like, yeah, because

1359
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 4: this will be the last big deal of Nick Batum's career,

1360
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:56,680
Speaker 4: the last big year of it probably, so might as

1361
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 4: well take that and then you know, see where you

1362
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 4: are after this season. But yeah, it's a good question

1363
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:03,600
Speaker 4: to ask, because I honestly, I don't know. I think

1364
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 4: you can see arguments for all three of them, but.

1365
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 6: I didn't see that there were I did not see

1366
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 6: an argument for the nickel of ptomb turning into the

1367
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 6: Boris Dao. But you just made it. That makes sense.

1368
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 6: He'll be at like one hundred and forty mil after

1369
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 6: this season, so that's that's a lot of dollars, that's

1370
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,440
Speaker 6: a lot of euro that he can turn into. If

1371
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 6: I thought you were going to say when you mentioned

1372
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:27,960
Speaker 6: Boris Deo, I thought you were going to say, he's

1373
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 6: just going to get on a boat and sail the

1374
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 6: rest of his you know, the rest of his thirties

1375
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 6: and forties a way. But yeah, but hey, good argument.

1376
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,040
Speaker 6: I did not see that coming, Dan. That's why we

1377
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 6: have you on.

1378
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 5: Man.

1379
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 4: That came out of nowhere, coming out of nowhere like

1380
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 4: Boris's boat off the harbor.

1381
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: Dan, you know we talked about we sort of slipped

1382
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: it in there. There's a few things more fun than

1383
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: making predictions that then eventually just blow up in our faces.

1384
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 2: So let's put you on the spot here.

1385
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: Of these eight teams, give us the top of these

1386
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: eight teams, who will be one, two, three when we

1387
01:00:00,520 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: have a next season, Like, who do you have the

1388
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: most faith in? I assume the Warriors are probably at

1389
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:06,200
Speaker 1: the top of your list, But then who fills out

1390
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 1: that second and third spot.

1391
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd say the Warriors for sure, because you know,

1392
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 4: no matter what, their baseline is just higher, you know,

1393
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 4: barring more catastrophic injuries, which we certainly hope we don't have.

1394
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,919
Speaker 4: I think I think I would do the Bulls too,

1395
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 4: because it just again, I feel more confident in like

1396
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,280
Speaker 4: the underlying talent there, and feel like in the same

1397
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 4: not exactly the same as the situation in Milwaukee where

1398
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,320
Speaker 4: they went from Kid to Budenholzer and like, but if

1399
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 4: you put like competent management and a smart head coach

1400
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 4: in control of a pile of already pretty good players,

1401
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 4: you can have a big turnaround pretty quickly. So I

1402
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 4: think they would be my second pick there.

1403
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 3: And then.

1404
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 4: I guess Atlanta because I think Atlanta I'm from a

1405
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 4: from a structural standpoint, I buy what the are. I

1406
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 4: buy the argument for like we're trading for Capella, we're

1407
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 4: trading for Deadman. We're trying to like establish a solid

1408
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 4: defensive baseline to build from, and we already have an

1409
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 4: all star table setter and playmaker to get get shots

1410
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 4: and get opportunities for everybody else, Like like Prey Young

1411
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 4: is already I think led the league in assists created

1412
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 4: right at the rim and now you're giving him like Capella.

1413
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 4: You know, it seems to makes sense to me that

1414
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,600
Speaker 4: roster would fit together better. And I also think that

1415
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,560
Speaker 4: they're as motivated or they again, they should be as

1416
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,919
Speaker 4: motivated as just about any of these teams to really

1417
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 4: go for it and try to add talent, whether by

1418
01:01:25,520 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 4: free agency or trade, because that's like they want to

1419
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 4: be back in the playoffs next year. So I think

1420
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 4: those would be my three because the other ones, you know,

1421
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:34,640
Speaker 4: we talked to it. We spent a lot of this

1422
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 4: saying things like confused and mystery, and I don't know,

1423
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 4: like a lot of those other rosters. Man, Yeah, they're

1424
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 4: kind of wandering around in the dark, and I think

1425
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 4: it's gonna take a little bit longer for them to

1426
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 4: move in a positive direction.

1427
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would add to the Hawks too.

1428
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 1: I mean, they're gonna pray or hope that one of

1429
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: like their three younger wing guys be it like a

1430
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 1: herder or a reddish or a hunter.

1431
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: You know, maybe one or two of them, right.

1432
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: Take like the next step or go up a level,

1433
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 1: all being obviously fairly fairly guys in this league. So yeah,

1434
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: the Hawks makes sense to me, Dan, I just one

1435
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: more question here before we let you go, because I

1436
01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 1: can I could start hearing the kids they're getting.

1437
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, sorry about that. Sorry about that.

1438
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,960
Speaker 1: I don't apologize Pistons and Cavs fans to hear their

1439
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 1: team being talked about.

1440
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 2: Is it you've been doing this a long time, like

1441
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 2: a decade.

1442
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:20,919
Speaker 1: Is it more interesting for you to write about bad

1443
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: teams than the good teams?

1444
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 4: That's a really good question, dude. Sometimes yeah, I mean,

1445
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:31,439
Speaker 4: like I'll be I'd be lying if I said it's

1446
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 4: always easy to find something interesting about teams that are bad. Like, uh,

1447
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 4: one thing I've been doing since I got here at

1448
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 4: the Ring a couple of years ago, as a most

1449
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 4: interesting teams Colin like pick out five teams and giving

1450
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 4: me something about them that I find interesting A player, whatever,

1451
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 4: you know, a storyline. And there are some teams including

1452
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 4: there's one I think it's at Greek Bulls fan on Twitter.

1453
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,120
Speaker 4: If I've gotten that wrong, I apologize, who is Like?

1454
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 4: Why have you not found the Bulls interesting? And I

1455
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 4: don't have a good answer for that. I just like,

1456
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,680
Speaker 4: when it's time to pick out teams, I've never they've

1457
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 4: never popped at the top of my mind. So I've

1458
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 4: made a vow next season if I if I'm allowed

1459
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 4: to keep doing that column, I will get the bulls

1460
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 4: in there at least one time. But so I don't

1461
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 4: always have the easiest time seeing the angle. But when

1462
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 4: you're sort of it's like anything else, you know, you

1463
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 4: give yourself restrictions, and sometimes you like find creativity in

1464
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 4: the restriction. So if you're like, all right, dude, sell

1465
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 4: me on why I should care about the hornets, and

1466
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 4: I'm like, whoof all right, Okay, Well, I mean the

1467
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 4: bionbo money's coming off the book, So that's one right there.

1468
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 3: And you know a lot of people didn't really see Devonte.

1469
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 4: Graham coming, you know, and so you have to like

1470
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 4: go into overdrive a little bit, and so sometimes that,

1471
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 4: you know, interesting stuff can come out of that. And

1472
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 4: then the other part of it too, is, like you know,

1473
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 4: like anything else we have, there are so many people

1474
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,280
Speaker 4: who do this sort of work, specifically in my kind

1475
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 4: of where you know, there's a lot of people that

1476
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 4: you know, writing sort of nationally about the league, and

1477
01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 4: then even more that righte on a team by team

1478
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 4: basis that it's so hard to find like the the

1479
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 4: angle on something nobody else really covered. It's immeasurably hard

1480
01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 4: that on really good teams that are covered like crazy,

1481
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 4: you know, like it's I don't, I don't. I probably

1482
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 4: didn't write anything original about the Warriors for a few

1483
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 4: years because there were a thousand people now, you know,

1484
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 4: So they're a little bit easier. If you're like, i'm

1485
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 4: gonna spend a week, I'm gonna, God help me, I'm

1486
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 4: gonna spend a week watching nothing but Calves, I can

1487
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,440
Speaker 4: probably come up with something nobody's been paying attention to.

1488
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, it does make it. It provides a little

1489
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,720
Speaker 3: more opportunity, But at what cost.

1490
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:35,440
Speaker 2: Your sanity? Sounds of it?

1491
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Dan, we appreciate you so much, man coming

1492
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:39,400
Speaker 1: on the podcast.

1493
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 2: I can't wait to talk to you in twenty thirty.

1494
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 2: It's gonna be great. No, just kidding.

1495
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: What's the easiest way for the listeners that maybe don't

1496
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 1: follow your work and then because they're idiots to follow you?

1497
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 2: Be it on Twitter or whatever.

1498
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's at your man divine on Twitter.

1499
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 3: I don't really have a whole lot.

1500
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 4: Of cross platform social promotion opportunities. Mostly my Instagram is

1501
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 4: just my kids. But if you want to check out

1502
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 4: my kids. You can do that at your mandolin on

1503
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 4: Instagram and yeah, at the Ringer dot Com, ring or

1504
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 4: NBA you can find all my stuff Before I go, though,

1505
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 4: I want to make sure I say this so that

1506
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 4: everybody knows I literally wouldn't be doing this if not

1507
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 4: for Jaye, Skeets, Task, Melie JD, and Trey Kirby all

1508
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 4: at different points in my development. Like if Trade, if

1509
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 4: JD doesn't play my phone calls into your old voicemail

1510
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:26,320
Speaker 4: box on your show, I don't wind up becoming part

1511
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:28,000
Speaker 4: of the community of your first show.

1512
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:29,840
Speaker 3: And then you know, Skeets.

1513
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 4: If Skeet says no to the first freelance pitch I

1514
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 4: ever sent him, I don't get to start writing at Yahoo.

1515
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 4: If Trade doesn't let me do more when Skeets went

1516
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,040
Speaker 4: off to be a superstar, then I don't get to

1517
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:40,919
Speaker 4: keep doing it. So getting to be on this show,

1518
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 4: even if it took a while, is a legit treat

1519
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,919
Speaker 4: and it feels like something of like a career.

1520
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 3: Moment for me. So thanks so much for everything along

1521
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 3: the way, guys, and thanks for having me today.

1522
01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: I was very kind of you.

1523
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,360
Speaker 1: This is long overdue having you on this podcast, but

1524
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: it feels like we've known you forever because we have

1525
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: known we have.

1526
01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 4: What this means is that we're all we're all just

1527
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,080
Speaker 4: immeasurably washed. That's what this means.

1528
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 2: One percent.

1529
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,000
Speaker 1: We got, we got maybe one or two good years

1530
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 1: left in us and then we're done.

1531
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:12,440
Speaker 2: So enjoy it now, folks. That's right, Dan, Thank you

1532
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 2: so much again.

1533
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 1: Guys, get your emails in your questions and your comments

1534
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: for tomorrow's beach step and email us No Dunks at

1535
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: the Athletic dot com or hit us up on Twitter

1536
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: at No Dunks, Inc. And make sure you follow at

1537
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:23,720
Speaker 1: your man divine while you're at it.

1538
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 3: Clipper bros. You heard it here first. Have a great time,

1539
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 3: turn up. Love you guys awesome.

1540
01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 6: Thanks for joining us. And remember we know nothing about

1541
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:35,760
Speaker 6: college ball, but I know these names are great college names.

1542
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:41,960
Speaker 6: Tyrese Haliburton, Killian Hayes, and Danka Okongu.

1543
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 3: I think.

1544
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:45,919
Speaker 2: Race to the day. People.

1545
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 3: You could stay.

1546
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 5: Every day.

1547
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,200
Speaker 6: Da you happy every.

1548
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,000
Speaker 3: It's done so long You're the one I'm waiting for.

1549
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 6: It's happened already. It's gonna be grippy.