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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and remisa O's turk Tough student detained

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Speaker 1: by Ice has been released after judge's orders. By the way,

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Speaker 1: her crime was writing an opinion. PieP We have such

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Speaker 1: a great show for you today. If the Lincoln Project's

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Speaker 1: own Rick Wilson joins us to discuss President Trump's latest

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Speaker 1: corruption in broad daylight, then we'll talk to Strict Scrutinies

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Speaker 1: co host Leah Lipman about her new book Lawless, How

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court runs on conservative grievance, fringe theories, and

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Speaker 1: bad vibes. But first the news.

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Speaker 2: Smiley as Friday sunset, we got a choice quote from

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Speaker 2: one Stephen Miller, and it's pretty pretty chilling.

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Speaker 3: The privilege of the written of habeas corpus can be

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Speaker 3: suspended in a time of innovation.

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Speaker 4: So would say that's an option we're actively looking. Look,

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Speaker 4: a lot of it depends on whether the course do

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Speaker 4: the right thing or not.

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Speaker 3: At the end of the day, Congress passed the body

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Speaker 3: of law.

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Speaker 1: All right, this fucker, by the way, a few thoughts

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Speaker 1: no ah, ah, nope, and by the way, the times

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Speaker 1: when they've suspended habeas have been like have been like

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Speaker 1: Pearl Harbor. Okay, they're not suspending habeas because they've made

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Speaker 1: up another crisis. Okay, so try again, baldy, that's a

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Speaker 1: no go. And by the way, when they say this

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Speaker 1: crazy shit, we just say no. We say no, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: Net net net is fucking bullshit. Just ignore them and

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Speaker 1: keep going. The courts will smack it down. Don't let

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Speaker 1: these fuckers do stuff. And by the way, again another

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Speaker 1: moment where you realize that you don't have to let

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Speaker 1: these guys do this. Congress should be holding hearings every day.

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Speaker 1: None of this is business as usual. Push back to authoritarianism. No, no, no, no.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, agreed. So on Friday, there was also a huge

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Speaker 2: confrontation outside in ICE facility in Newark, New Jersey, where

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Speaker 2: Mayor Rosbarroka was taken into custody and they had threats

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Speaker 2: towards Representative Body Watson Coleman the.

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Speaker 1: Rest of the fucking mayor of Newark because they said whatever.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, they said whatever. Lie. Congress has the

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Speaker 1: right to go into Ice attention centers. Trump thinks that

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Speaker 1: ICE is sisca Savo. It is not. It is under

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Speaker 1: all of this. By the way, I'm going to say

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Speaker 1: this as many times as I humanly can, Congress has

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Speaker 1: authority over all of this. Just because they are largely

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Speaker 1: cowardly and don't want to assert it doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: they don't have authority over it. Right Congress is allowed

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Speaker 1: to go into ice facilities. They are not storming it.

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Speaker 1: They are going in there. The Trump administration arrested the

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Speaker 1: mayor of Newark because they want to be authoritarians. None

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Speaker 1: of this is okay, None of this is legal, and

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Speaker 1: Trump World will yet again lose in court. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, they know they'll lose because they let them

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Speaker 1: out right away. They didn't keep them over the weekend

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Speaker 1: because they knew that they were just barreling into what

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Speaker 1: is going to be a huge crisis. They keep losing.

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Speaker 1: They're doing the wrong stuff. The courts are holding do

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Speaker 1: not let them get away with it. By the way,

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Speaker 1: the people who were there who should be applauded, because

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Speaker 1: this should be going on all the time. New Jersey

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Speaker 1: reps Bonnie Watson, Coleman, Rob Menandez, brother of Elisia and

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Speaker 1: La Monica McIvor. Good for them, and first of all,

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Speaker 1: ICE is like, well over their skis at this moment. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so not okay?

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Speaker 2: Now, well, unfortunately trumpstration to say that it is definitely

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Speaker 2: on the table to arrest members of Congress, and it

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Speaker 2: looks like AOC has some words about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, they basically the Trump administration has

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Speaker 1: been working real hard to make abolish ICE a reasonable

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Speaker 1: centrist position. Okay, abolish ICE is like moderate Republicans are

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Speaker 1: soon going to be saying it. AOC did a really

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Speaker 1: good video. You should see it. AOC is a really

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Speaker 1: good communicator, communicated really well about this ICE stuff, Like,

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Speaker 1: you guys have to push back. This guy's a bully,

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Speaker 1: but he's also lazy and shiftless, and you just have

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Speaker 1: to keep pushing back. And that's what AOC did so well,

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Speaker 1: because she knows that if you give in to Trump,

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Speaker 1: your captured institution, and then he will just do crazy

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Speaker 1: stuff to you, like he's doing to all of those

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Speaker 1: law firms that made deals with him. So good for AOC.

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Speaker 1: She's correct and she's right, and that's that's it, and

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Speaker 1: we got to keep going. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, mister Trump not known for those thoughtful, carefully crafted

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Speaker 2: policy decisions. He killed the Woke program the other day,

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Speaker 2: which you might say, Oh, that sounds like was something

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Speaker 2: he would do. But there's one problem. It is mostly

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Speaker 2: benefits his voters, so it's not so woke.

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Speaker 1: Well maybe it is, man. Maybe the reality is that

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Speaker 1: woke policies actually just benefit for people. So he has

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Speaker 1: he got rid of everything that has the word equity

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Speaker 1: in it. And it turns out that the Digital Equity

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Speaker 1: Act wasn't just This is the problem with reverse racism, right,

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Speaker 1: is that occasionally you stumble on reverse whatever that is

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Speaker 1: hurting the poor. So here we have Trump and these

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Speaker 1: worthies grants to improve internet in poor Red States, which

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, because it had equity in it, he ended

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Speaker 1: the program. And I'm sorry, but I'm not sure you

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Speaker 1: could get a better metaphor for what the Trump administration

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Speaker 1: is than ending a program to help his voters because

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Speaker 1: it had the word equity in it. And ladies and gentlemen,

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Speaker 1: I am not surprised to see it, but it really

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Speaker 1: is quite on the nose. Rick Wilson is the founder

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Speaker 1: of the Linda Project and the host of the Enemy's List.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Back, Rick Wilson, Molly John.

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Speaker 3: Fast is always a pleasure to be with you on

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Speaker 3: this fine day.

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Speaker 1: The are giving Donald Trump a.

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Speaker 3: Jet, a fancy jet, a seven forty seven eight hundred,

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Speaker 3: which is very large and was decorated by some combination

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Speaker 3: of Saddam Liberachi and somebody who went buckwow with a

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Speaker 3: hot glue gun and glitter.

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Speaker 1: I understand that this is a complete authoritarian creep, but

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Speaker 1: it is worth for a minute just realizing that we

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Speaker 1: have sort of given up. Congress has given off on

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Speaker 1: the idea that presidents aren't supposed to use the presidency

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Speaker 1: to make money.

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Speaker 3: They have completely given up on that. You're one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent correct. They now believe that the only corrupt thing

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Speaker 3: in the White House could be Hunter Biden selling some

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Speaker 3: oil paintings. This is all just perfectly normal to them.

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Speaker 3: And let's put this down for what it is. This

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Speaker 3: is a bribe. The Qataris are paying Trump a bribe.

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Speaker 3: It's about a you know, a five hundred million dollar airplane.

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Speaker 3: It's a bribe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. They're doing it because they know what Trump is like, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is they know that it's paid for

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Speaker 1: play with Donald Trump and Donald Trump. I mean even

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Speaker 1: in the lesser right, like even with the British government.

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Speaker 1: They came in and were like, we'd like to bring

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Speaker 1: you an invitation from the you know, from the king.

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Speaker 1: Like that is in itself a bribe too. I mean, right,

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Speaker 1: this is the whole way of doing business.

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Speaker 3: If we were looking at some other country and at

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Speaker 3: their government doing this, we would say, wow, that country

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Speaker 3: is really incorrupt. We would say that's remarkably shady. That's

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Speaker 3: not first world business practices. That's the kind of thing

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Speaker 3: that happens in kleptocracies and satropies and weird you know,

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Speaker 3: East Asian money laundering havens and all this other stuff.

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Speaker 3: But now, as you said, we've sort of given up

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Speaker 3: on it as a country. No one gives a shit

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Speaker 3: In Congress, they're like, oh yeah, that's a nice, nice plane,

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Speaker 3: mister president.

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Speaker 1: So Democrats don't control they don't control any branch of

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Speaker 1: the federal government. But what should they be doing? I

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Speaker 1: think they should be doing more on this.

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Speaker 3: I think, look, I think this is another thing where

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Speaker 3: some shadow hearings would come in handy. I think this

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Speaker 3: is another thing where in the course of other hearings

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Speaker 3: they should be asking the White House these things. They

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Speaker 3: should be papering the various agencies that are doing this

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Speaker 3: with questions who they still are. You know, even though

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Speaker 3: they're not going to get immediate answers or real answers,

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Speaker 3: they should be doing it in a way that lets

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Speaker 3: the government know that Donald Trump is in fact engaged

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Speaker 3: in widespread corruption. And you know, I think I heard

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Speaker 3: the phrase Biden crime family about a billion times out

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Speaker 3: of Fox and Trump folks. During the Biden administration, Hunter

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Speaker 3: Biden got a couple of board seats and sold some paintings.

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Speaker 3: Add all that up, and what's going on right now

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Speaker 3: is like a thousand times that every single day in

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Speaker 3: their crypto scam, in these real estate scams that they're

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Speaker 3: doing overseas, give it getting a plane as a gift,

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Speaker 3: these supposed investments in America that are coming in from

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Speaker 3: all these Gulf states. And it's funny because even Laura

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Speaker 3: Lumer was attacking Trump today, Ryan over the kataris giving

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Speaker 3: him a five hundred million.

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Speaker 1: Sil I mean, it's bad when the moral compass is

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Speaker 1: Laura Lumer. That's not good, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's a low bar.

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Speaker 1: But it is interesting. I mean, she definitely is right.

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Speaker 1: So also this week we learned that Pete Haggs Hath

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Speaker 1: had plagiarized his thesis that got like two seconds of

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Speaker 1: airtime right that the Princetonian had found he had plagiarized

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Speaker 1: his thesis from the New York Times in the Washington Post,

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Speaker 1: leading me to think he reads the New York Times

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Speaker 1: in the Washington Post. I'm shocked, but I guess.

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Speaker 3: It was a while now. Look, I mean, I would

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Speaker 3: say this in many other administrations, a plagiarism scandal would

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Speaker 3: be disqualifying. But when you look at the biggest influencers

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Speaker 3: on the right, several of them, Ben Dominic, Benny Johnson,

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Speaker 3: a whole bunch of these folks are known plagiarists, and

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Speaker 3: that doesn't affect their position inside the Mago universe at all.

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Speaker 3: So why would it, Why would it, you know, disqualify

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Speaker 3: Bee's and look in the catalog of Pete Hexsa's many sins,

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Speaker 3: plagiarism is actually kind of low on the food chain.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm still impressed that he plagiarized from like

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Speaker 1: real legit.

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Speaker 3: Outlets right right right, and not like the Golden Book

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Speaker 3: of Defense Policy or something right right.

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Speaker 1: Or like you know, remember you'll remember that the other

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Speaker 1: person who was famous for plagiarizing, though it turned out

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Speaker 1: to be plagiarizing himself. Was everyone's face, the great economist

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Speaker 1: ron Vara, ron Vara, ron Vara. By the way, we

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Speaker 1: haven't seen him so much since they've I.

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Speaker 3: Was gonna say, have you noticed that he's sort of

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Speaker 3: I mean maybe heara direction program or something.

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Speaker 1: I feel like they're going to put Peter Navarro in.

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Speaker 1: He's going to get some other job because now this administration,

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Speaker 1: Trump doesn't fire people, He just moves him around. So

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Speaker 1: he's going to be like hud secretary who knows.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you could easily see that. I think of Trump,

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Speaker 3: you know, not wanting to get as he as they say.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't want to give the media a scout, so

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Speaker 3: you can easily see him saying, hey, you're going to

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Speaker 3: be the ambassador to the United Nations economic counselor. I

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Speaker 3: don't know, makes some faky job, right, right, right.

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Speaker 1: But what is happening behind the scenes, and I do

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Speaker 1: think this is real important and also interesting is that

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Speaker 1: Trump seems to acknowledge that he fucked with the tariffs,

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Speaker 1: right because trying to make a deal behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: in Switzerland. I like that they're like, we solved, we

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Speaker 1: brought peace to India and Pakistan. That was yesterday and

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Speaker 1: then and then India was like not so fast, bitch,

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Speaker 1: and then today and then today and by the way,

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Speaker 1: we'll see how long that India Pakistan piece deal negotiated

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Speaker 1: by Marco Rubio, who wasn't even there that everyone.

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Speaker 3: In India and Pakistan says, the.

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Speaker 1: Fuck are you talking about talking about?

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Speaker 3: But we'll see.

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Speaker 1: But the the stuff in Switzerland where they're trying to

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Speaker 1: negotiate a trade deal, Trump said it went very well.

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Speaker 1: You think it went very well.

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Speaker 3: Knowing what a truthful interlocker to Donald Trump tends to be,

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Speaker 3: I would say that this is about as real as

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Speaker 3: you know Trump University. This is bullshit. He's lying. And

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Speaker 3: the Chinese, if they do what they've done lately, within

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Speaker 3: a day or so, we'll say nothing was accomplished in

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Speaker 3: these talks. We're back at stage zero. I think the

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Speaker 3: other thing that's going on here, though, is Trump needs

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Speaker 3: to keep the market juiced. He needs to keep the

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Speaker 3: stock market moving because if it does, if reality does

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Speaker 3: catch up on the stock market and he's unable to

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Speaker 3: rely on that as a major indicator and it crashes

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Speaker 3: because of this insane trade war. I think at that point,

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Speaker 3: we're in really weird deep water.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about what that looks like, really weird

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Speaker 1: deep water. Because there are right now lots and lots

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Speaker 1: of empty or semi empty port containerships like we see

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Speaker 1: the slow row all here. Here is no world. Even

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Speaker 1: if they and I don't think China is going to

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Speaker 1: do this, but even if tomorrow China was like, we

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Speaker 1: did it trade, we're done, we have a deal, which

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Speaker 1: is what Trump needs. Even then, we still have a

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Speaker 1: inflationary choke hold that it's I mean, I don't write

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Speaker 1: that's three weeks, three weeks, four weeks, five weeks behind.

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Speaker 3: We are right where we are right now. You know,

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Speaker 3: as of now, shelves are starting to empty out in

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Speaker 3: major retailers and there are no ships waiting to refill

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Speaker 3: those shelves. And if those ships tomorrow, if you said, okay,

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Speaker 3: it's all over, if Trump dropped dead tomorrow and the

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Speaker 3: new president said, China back to.

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Speaker 1: Where we were, even better, if you do that, I'm sure,

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Speaker 1: which it doesn't necessarily want to.

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Speaker 3: I think we've got the bit in their teeth and

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Speaker 3: they're not playing around. But if they wanted to, it's

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Speaker 3: going to take a month to turn all those factories

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Speaker 3: back on, bring all those people back in, get new

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Speaker 3: orders in the door. Then a month after that the

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Speaker 3: ships will be loaded. It takes about three weeks for

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Speaker 3: them to cross the Pacific. Two weeks, let's call it

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Speaker 3: to cross the Pacific. It takes about a week from

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Speaker 3: the minute the ship gets there to the minute stuff

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Speaker 3: starts to being distributed. So we're talking about July mid July.

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Speaker 3: If it happened today, I think we're in a much

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Speaker 3: deeper hole than anybody wants to acknowledge, especially the market,

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Speaker 3: and especially a lot of folks in the media who

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Speaker 3: have not been who've been following the daily Trumps statement

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Speaker 3: and not the bigger macro economic picture for American consumers,

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Speaker 3: which is hard to do. I admit it's a hard

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Speaker 3: story to cover.

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Speaker 1: People need to stop repeating what the administration says. Okay,

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Speaker 1: stop it right. They did not make peace with India

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Speaker 1: and Pakistan did not happen.

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Speaker 3: They did not make a deal with China this weekend.

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Speaker 3: The UK trade deal was a nothing burger. And when

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Speaker 3: they claim it's the biggest thing ever, you shouldn't just

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Speaker 3: repeat it's not. It's the biggest thing ever.

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Speaker 1: And by the way UK is like our seventh or

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Speaker 1: eighth biggest trading.

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Speaker 3: Party, not the same category.

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Speaker 1: We actually export more to them than they import.

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Speaker 3: A little bit. Yeah yeah, so.

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Speaker 1: But the other thing that I think is spectacularly stupid

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Speaker 1: about this whole problem, right, is going to be hard, Right,

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Speaker 1: they are hard. They're hard to deal with. They've been

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Speaker 1: eating our lunch for decades and decades. It's not going

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Speaker 1: to be that easy to solve.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: But Mexico and Canada, he could do that tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: He could walk in the door tomorrow with Canada, flip

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Speaker 3: the switch in the you know, easily. They would immediately

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Speaker 3: reciprocate to go back to zero or back to whatever

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Speaker 3: the effective low rip rate was, and it would be

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Speaker 3: over and it would start helping. Because Canada and Mexico

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Speaker 3: are our two biggest partners. Then China like, why.

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Speaker 1: Not do that? But explain to me why he's not

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Speaker 1: doing that.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to it.

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Speaker 3: I think he doesn't want to be perceived as having

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Speaker 3: given in first off to Shinebaum in Mexico, who is

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Speaker 3: both a woman and a Mexican. These are not great

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Speaker 3: things in the mind of the MAGA. They don't want

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Speaker 3: to be seeing that Trump caving in to these two

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Speaker 3: countries that they basically in maga culture holding contempt, and

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Speaker 3: Trump knows if he does that, he will be perceived

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Speaker 3: as a loser and all that of their business.

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Speaker 1: Right, he clearly is trying to do it with Canada

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Speaker 1: because when Carney came, he was not his usual obstructor.

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Speaker 1: He was not the same obstructor asself self.

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Speaker 3: Even would you notice his body language in that meeting?

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Speaker 3: Tell me hunched over pass it? It was very different.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I want to ask you this because is

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Speaker 3: Zelensky all these people would have dealt with him so far?

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Speaker 3: Don't you think Carney's like the most impressive.

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Speaker 1: I just think about the Zelensky meeting where JD was like,

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Speaker 1: you didn't even wear a suit, right, Like that's when

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Speaker 1: you know, but this was like I think Carney is

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Speaker 1: very smart and knows how to deal with this. But

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Speaker 1: the problem is, you know, again, this is like the

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Speaker 1: thing I always talk to Gid here about he's living

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Speaker 1: over a crack house. So there's only so much you

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Speaker 1: can do when you're a right when the big economy

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Speaker 1: is completely crazy. So the my question though, is why

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Speaker 1: is Trump not rushing to make it? I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: gonna have to make a deal with Counada in Mexico anyway,

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Speaker 1: because China is going to fuck us, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they'll write like, I mean, it's hard to imagine. He's

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Speaker 1: not gonna get fucked by China. They're already.

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Speaker 3: No, he's gonna get He's gonna get fucked by China

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Speaker 3: in a way that's gonna leave him walking funny for

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Speaker 3: a month. This guy does not understand. He gave she

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Speaker 3: the greatest political gift he could have ever given China.

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Speaker 3: He gave me with all the China, all China's internal

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Speaker 3: economic problems. Now she is like a war leader against Trump.

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Speaker 3: It's so crazy to me that this White House is

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Speaker 3: so unsophisticated that even the people who are allegedly sophisticated

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Speaker 3: didn't understand this. Like this is a strategic misteriad of

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Speaker 3: China at the biggest level I could imagine.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And it's interesting though, like he must have someone

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Speaker 1: behind the scene, and this is the thing, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know there are no grown ups in the room,

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Speaker 1: but isn't there someone behind the scenes who's like, China's

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Speaker 1: not gonna make a deal with you because they are

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Speaker 1: There's no incentive for them to do it.

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Speaker 3: I think that Marco will never say that to him

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Speaker 3: because it will be seen as defiant. Right, even though

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Speaker 3: I think Marco knows that, I think Rubio knows that

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Speaker 3: at some level, he's not. Marco is not completely unsophisticated

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Speaker 3: about what's going on in China. He is Marco is

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Speaker 3: a big China hawk. But I don't think he wants

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Speaker 3: to tell Trump the truth because Trump has invested everything

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Speaker 3: in this. This is his signature issue now, even bigger

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Speaker 3: than immigration. This is the defining issue of the Trump first,

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Speaker 3: you know, one hundred and whatever days it is now

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Speaker 3: because it is the only thing that has changed this

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Speaker 3: country at every level. Fundamentally, Immigration is a big deal

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Speaker 3: and a terrible abuse of their power. But this is

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Speaker 3: like prices in Walmart and Target and the pharmacy and

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Speaker 3: your grocery store are changing for the worst because of

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Speaker 3: this one decision across.

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Speaker 1: The board because like clearly he started a pass.

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Speaker 3: I think he does know that, because he's trying to

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Speaker 3: do this like austerity bullshit. I love that or two dolls. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I was like, okay, comrade, do you control the means

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Speaker 3: of productions?

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Speaker 1: Amazing? I mean they hate.

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Speaker 3: Capitalists, the beat arbists be bountiful.

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Speaker 1: Why do they hate capitalism?

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know, Molly, because it seems to me,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I'm a free markets guy. It seems

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Speaker 3: to me that telling people what they can purchase, how

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Speaker 3: many items of a given product they could purchase, strikes

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Speaker 3: me as planned economy stuff. This doesn't sound like American

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Speaker 3: capitalism in action.

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Speaker 1: So let's sort of do a few minutes on where

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Speaker 1: we are right now. Trump is going to try to

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Speaker 1: make a trade deal with Canada. I think Canada. It's

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Speaker 1: going to be on and off. He has this couple

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Speaker 1: of other sort of things going. I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: you sort of want like as you're looking at the

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Speaker 1: kind the you know, the House is still trying to

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Speaker 1: pass a budget. It you know, they are nowhere.

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Speaker 3: Everything I've heard from people in DC in the legislated process,

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Speaker 3: in the Senate and the House in the last week

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Speaker 3: is that Mike Johnson is spinning his wheels and the

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Speaker 3: MUD's flying everywhere. But this is not at this point,

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Speaker 3: this is not happening, right. They're not doing a tax

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Speaker 3: bill that is going to add five trillion dollars to

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Speaker 3: the deficit or to the debt. Excuse me, actually, you

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Speaker 3: know what and a trillion dollars to this.

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Speaker 1: I just want to add something. Donald Trump, as we

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Speaker 1: were recording this just truth, and we use that in

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Speaker 1: scare quotes that he has a China deal, you'll notice,

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Speaker 1: and US announces China deal in Geneva. Okay, so we'll

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Speaker 1: see what this looks like. But I would not breathlessly

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Speaker 1: report a China deal.

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Speaker 3: I would not breathlessly report that either. I would be

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Speaker 3: very extremely cautious. I would be extremely cautious if I

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Speaker 3: were the markets in accepting this. But you know, if

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Speaker 3: there's a if, as always, there's a bunch of mysterious

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Speaker 3: buying of futures tomorrow for an uptick in the market surprise,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't be shocked to see the same game that

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Speaker 3: has been played three or four times now, you know,

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Speaker 3: not as big a scale as the first time. When

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Speaker 3: Trump gave Wall Street a heads up privately, but I

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Speaker 3: think for.

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Speaker 1: Sure was it his tweet that said is.

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Speaker 3: Time to buy? I mean, look, I don't know one

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Speaker 3: reason why China would take a deal right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: why would they take a deal today when they can

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Speaker 3: drag this out and get more out of him? This

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Speaker 3: is I think perhaps the concept of a deal yeah yeah,

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Speaker 3: rather than a deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's always concepts of something, isn't it in two

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Speaker 1: weeks yep?

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Speaker 3: But they have been backing down over all these things, right,

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Speaker 3: they're backing down from two right, and even some of

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Speaker 3: these like you know, we've seen some of these students

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Speaker 3: who are arrested now being freed on court orders. They're

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Speaker 3: obeying some of those. And I think one of the

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Speaker 3: most interesting tells of the whole week was just how

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Speaker 3: badly unprepared and how badly beat up Cash Betel and

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Speaker 3: Christy Noman in particular were in front of the US

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Speaker 3: Senate this week. They were not ready, yeah, to be questioned,

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Speaker 3: they don't have their budgets ready.

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Speaker 1: That was I don't really know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think I mean a gold star at

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Speaker 3: Chris Murphy, who was like unbelievable buck it, I'll do yea.

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Speaker 3: He went in there with like out for blood and

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Speaker 3: he got.

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Speaker 1: I know, and a lot of facial hair too, out

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Speaker 1: for blood, with lots of facial hair. Chris Murphy, he.

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Speaker 3: Is, listen. I think he's got the sort of Viking

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Speaker 3: berserker gong spirit.

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Speaker 1: Leah Lippmann is the co host of the podcast Strict

435
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 1: Scrutiny and the author of Lawless, How the Supreme Court

436
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: Runs on Conservative grievance, stringe theories, and bad vibes. Welcome

437
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics.

438
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 4: Leiah Lipman, thank you so much for having me.

439
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this court. Seems like it's gone well, No,

440
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. First, let's talk about your book, because

441
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: I actually think Supreme Court has weirdly as much as

442
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: they can considering how conservative they are, in some way

443
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 1: is not done as badly as I thought they would.

444
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: But first, talk to me about this book and sort

445
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: of where we find the Supreme Court at this moment. Yeah.

446
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 4: So the book is called Lawless, How the Supreme Court

447
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 4: Runs on Conservative grievance, fringe theories, and bad vibes. The

448
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 4: sub title should give you a basic gist of the argument,

449
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 4: but mostly the idea is the Republican justices are kind

450
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 4: of repackaging and channeling Republican talking points, their innermost feelings

451
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 4: and the generals like geist of the Republican Party into

452
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 4: the law. And because a big animating principle of the

453
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,199
Speaker 4: Republican Party right now is conservative grievance. The idea that

454
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 4: Conservatives and Republicans are the victims of you know, anytime

455
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,640
Speaker 4: things don't go their way or anytime people don't share

456
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 4: their views like that is a core precept that has

457
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 4: made its way into several different areas of law.

458
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: How did this Supreme Court get here?

459
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 4: So a few different ways. One is, the conservative legal

460
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 4: movement and Republican Party made a concerted effort to plan

461
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 4: to take over the court. You know, they recognize that

462
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 4: they needed the court to enable their anti majoritarian project.

463
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 4: You know, they needed the court. Oh yeah, No, it

464
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 4: worked in splendid ways.

465
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 1: You know.

466
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 4: It was not a straight line, to be sure, But

467
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 4: they invested in communicating to people about why courts matter.

468
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 4: They invested in organizations like the Federalist Society that would

469
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 4: help them credential and select people whose views would match

470
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 4: the parties and who would be influenced by the signals

471
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 4: they sent to them. And they managed to develop all

472
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,719
Speaker 4: the legal theories that created this veneer applausibility that they

473
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 4: could sell to the public. And you know, their base

474
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 4: knew what they were talking about. But if you were

475
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 4: just tuning into the news, the phrase textualism isn't going

476
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 4: to scream to you. I am going to destroy the

477
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 4: administrative state, even though right like people would.

478
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 1: Turns out that's what it meant.

479
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's surprised.

480
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: Trump said this week that he was not sure if

481
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: he needed to uphold the Constitution. You know, it's so

482
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: funny because I'm so glad I get to have you on,

483
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: because I'm obsessed with the Supreme Court, and I am

484
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: like very nerdy about it, and so I often can't

485
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: ask some of the questions I want to ask because

486
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: they're too nerdy. But I can ask you them. Which

487
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: members of the court are real textualists? By the way,

488
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: of course, we both agree that textualism is largely bullshit

489
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: cover for trying to dismantle the administrative state. But just

490
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,920
Speaker 1: tell us who pretends to be textualist on this court?

491
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 4: Yes, so I would say the people who perform textualism

492
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 4: the most ostentatiously perfect would.

493
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: Be That's the question I wanted to ask.

494
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, bil Gorsich, Amy Barrett, and then after them Brett Kavanaugh.

495
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: Right, so the new justices yep. And then Alito and

496
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 1: Thomas performed box news.

497
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 4: Yes, so Alito manages to have zero principles whatsoever, and

498
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 4: not even to pretend to have principles other than the

499
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 4: idea that a democratic party is an existential threat to

500
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 4: his worldview.

501
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and then Thomas is just mad about everything.

502
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 4: So Thomas is more focused on a method of interpreting

503
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 4: the constitution, originalism, than he has been focused on how

504
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 4: to interpret statutes textualism right.

505
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,360
Speaker 1: And originalism is basically.

506
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 4: Wo Originalism is the idea that, in order to determine

507
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 4: what the constitution means today, we ask what it meant

508
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 4: to the people who drafted and ratified the constitution in

509
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 4: the seventeen hundreds and eighteen hundreds, who, surprise, surprise, all

510
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 4: white men. Since only men could vote at the time.

511
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: You would think that originalism would not be would he

512
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: would want for any number of reasons in this country's history.

513
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 4: Clarence Thomas is perhaps better than anyone the embodiment of

514
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 4: we all contain multitudes, because of course I agree, right,

515
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 4: you would think that would be a giant red flag

516
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:22,159
Speaker 4: and siren going off. I will not outsource our rights today.

517
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 4: What the government can do to the people who drafted

518
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 4: and ratify the constitution and said women can vote and

519
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 4: black people can be owned as property. And yet originalism

520
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 4: has continued to this day.

521
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: Can we talk about Shaughnessey and then Shaughnessy Pardue, which

522
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: was a sort of shadow dock at nine zero in

523
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: which there were two talk to us about that.

524
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, So Shaughnessy is this kind of older Supreme Court

525
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 4: decision from the fifties or yes, from the nineteen fifties,

526
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 4: and it should, I think be understood as part of

527
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 4: this Cold War era, you know, system of immigration, and

528
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 4: with the Court said, there is you know, when you

529
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 4: are dealing with someone who wants to enter the United States,

530
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 4: they have less protections, you know, than people who are

531
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: citizens in the United States or permanent residents of the

532
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 4: United States. So they kind of adjusted, you know, the

533
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 4: amount of due process rights you get kind of depends

534
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 4: on your relationship to the United States. And the Trump

535
00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 4: administration has ran with this right to announce the totally unhinged,

536
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 4: in correct idea that non citizens just lack due process

537
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 4: rights at all, when that's not what Shaughnessy said, and

538
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 4: there are other cases that in fact hold non citizens

539
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 4: in the United States lawful permanent residents and whatnot, you

540
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 4: do have due process rights. And that seemed to be

541
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: something even this Supreme Court was concerned with you know,

542
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: when it looked like the administration was about try to

543
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 4: summarily expel more people to the L. Salvador Mega Prison.

544
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: So those two nine zero decisions, right, what is happening or.

545
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 4: One of them was nine zero but then.

546
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: The other one was seven to But talk to me

547
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: about that sort of is Roberts, what is happening behind

548
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: the scenes here that we are getting these numbers? And

549
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: what is the Supreme Court doing taking these cases? And

550
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: in the nine zero they took a case that they

551
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: sort of chose to take, like sort of talk us

552
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: through because it feels like Roberts is doing stuff here

553
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: that is meaningful and important.

554
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 4: Yes, so I think we should understand, you know, what

555
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 4: is happening at the Supreme courts to be a product

556
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 4: of a few different things. One is how wild the

557
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 4: asks are that the administration is making of the Supreme Court. Like,

558
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 4: if you managed to lose both sam Alito and Clarence Thomas,

559
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 4: I think you need to do some real soul searching.

560
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 4: And yet that is what they have done in at

561
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 4: least one case. So that's part of it.

562
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: And that case wasn't meant to go up right, I

563
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: mean that was sort of they took it.

564
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 4: That was one of the shadow docket cases on the

565
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 4: Alien Enemies Act about whether the individuals could challenge their

566
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 4: summary expulsions via this one federal law, the administrative procedure acting,

567
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 4: rather than something else. And then the Kilmara Brego Garcia

568
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 4: case about whether a court could order the administration to

569
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 4: facilitate the return of someone wrongfully deported. Even sam Alito

570
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 4: said yes, in fact they can do so. Wow. Right,

571
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 4: So it's partially a product of the administration is making

572
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 4: outlandish asks. But second is it gets the Supreme Court

573
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 4: a ton of good press when they rule against the

574
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 4: trum administration, like that is going to dominate the news

575
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 4: when they likely turn away Trump's request to implement his

576
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 4: order stripping people of birthright citizenship, that's going to occupy

577
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 4: headline after headline, even though within the same month they

578
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 4: are likely to say states have to create religious public

579
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 4: charter schools. They're likely to say it's unconstitutional for states

580
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 4: to include LGBTQ reading materials in public schools. And so

581
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 4: I think it is to the Court's benefit to rule

582
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 4: against the administration occasionally, like while also ruling for the

583
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 4: underlying ideology.

584
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: Right, So it's a pr stunt. That's why they're taking

585
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: on the birthright citizenship case, because they could just bat

586
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: it down.

587
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 4: Exactly, like, there's no reason to move that case from

588
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 4: the shadow docket where it came up, you know, to

589
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 4: the Court's regular docket, and doing so is going to

590
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 4: generate a ton of coverage on the oral argument, more

591
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 4: coverage on the ultimate decision, and delay the ultimate decision

592
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 4: to coincide with some of these crazy ones.

593
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: So that is important. But I just want to do

594
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: another minute on what Roberts is doing right now, because

595
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: I do think the Alien enemies didn't seem like great.

596
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: You know, it's this wartime act. There's no evidence to

597
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: support the idea that we're at war. No one's even

598
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: heard of this El Salvadorian gang. I mean, it was

599
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty weak sauce. Is it now completely out

600
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: of the realm? I mean, can they use it anymore?

601
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: Is it gone? I mean, where are we now with them?

602
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: So, they unfortunately can still use it because what the

603
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 4: Supreme Court did in their first intervention in the case

604
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 4: is say a court cannot block that policy nationwide. Instead,

605
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 4: individuals have to challenge their potential expulsion via this one

606
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 4: procedural mechanism habeas petitions, and because of that that means

607
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 4: you get these like one off district court rulings that

608
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 4: block the administration from using the Alien Enemies Act, but

609
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 4: only in their jurisdiction. So we have like rulings to

610
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 4: that effect in Colorado, New York, some places in Texas,

611
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 4: but not others. And that means the administration might try

612
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 4: to move people around to expel them from a place

613
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 4: where there is no such prohibition.

614
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: How much of where we are in this moment is

615
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: because of this sort of bad legislature not repealing zombie

616
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 1: laws because you thought, well, no one will ever bring

617
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: them back, and also part to keeping America in a

618
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: state of emergency after nine to eleven despite the fact

619
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: that there was no emergency.

620
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 4: Look, there's no question that Congress has enabled the rise

621
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 4: of Donald Trump and also not to take in preventative

622
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 4: steps to make the Trump administration less bad by repealing

623
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 4: some of the zombie laws or some of these statutes

624
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 4: that confer vast sweeping authority on the president. You know,

625
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is of course right, like the canonical bad man, right,

626
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 4: but we shouldn't ignore the fact that like he is

627
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 4: only doing what he is doing because he's enabled by

628
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 4: the people around him, And that includes you know, Congress

629
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 4: that isn't limiting his ability to create these terrorists that

630
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 4: are imploding right, the global economy and the United States economy.

631
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 4: That includes the Senate Republicans who confirm people like Pete

632
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 4: hag Seth to be Secretary of Defense. But I think

633
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 4: it also includes right, the Supreme Court, right, who has

634
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,080
Speaker 4: also laid the groundwork for Donald Trump in important ways.

635
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 4: Like you talk about the legislature, the Supreme Court made

636
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 4: the legislature less democratic and representative by demolishing parts of

637
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 4: the Voting Rights Act and saying, yeah, you can engage

638
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 4: in partisan jerrymandering, which makes the House less representative on

639
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 4: top of Senate mal abortion it. So Donald Trump is

640
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 4: real bad and like he has been made worse by

641
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 4: all of the people around him.

642
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, right now the Supreme Court has you know, they're

643
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: sort of going into this oral arguments and then they'll publish,

644
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: you know, and then they'll all go on vacation. As

645
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: one as one does. In's sort of what way have

646
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: they kind of done right by us? And what way

647
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: have they done wrong by us?

648
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 4: So I think they were absolutely correct to in the

649
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 4: middle of the night early morning, Holt the Trump administration's

650
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 4: efforts to try to expel more Venezuela nationals to El

651
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 4: Salvador by moving them, as we were saying, like out

652
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 4: of one place where there was an order prohibiting the

653
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: expulsions to another where there wasn't. So that's one thing.

654
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 4: I expect they are going to turn away his request

655
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 4: to strip away birthright citizenship, so that will be another.

656
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 4: I'm kind of waiting for more examples. I'll be honest.

657
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 4: They have not done a ton of good. They recently

658
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 4: allowed him to implement his ban on transgender service members.

659
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 4: They have greenlit other policies as well, like the freezing

660
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,399
Speaker 4: of Department of Education funds for teacher training or the

661
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 4: firings that the Office of Personnel Management directed. So I'm

662
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 4: waiting for more examples.

663
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: Trump World, I mean largely because a lot of the

664
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: stuff they want to do is illegal. Has been pretty

665
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 1: sumarily losing in the court in the lower courts for sure,

666
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: and I think the lower courts are more principled than

667
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court for a few different reasons.

668
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 4: I mean, one is, administrations just aren't trying to appoint

669
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 4: right people who are as uniformly ideological to the trial

670
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 4: courts as they do the appellate course of the Supreme Court.

671
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 4: Another reason is there's this blue slip system where when

672
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 4: Donald Trump went to appoint people to states with Democratic senators,

673
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 4: those democratic senators could block his appointees, so that allowed

674
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 4: them to veto some of the more extreme ones. And so,

675
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 4: you know, I think both of those dynamics make the

676
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 4: lower courts a better bulwark for the law than the

677
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: Supreme Court has proven to be.

678
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: All of the stuff Doge did seems like it's illegal.

679
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: The NIH grants. One of the more justive things that

680
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: Elon Musk has done is cut cancer research and Alzheimer's research,

681
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: and he's done this by capping indirect funding. He was

682
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 1: very offended by the idea that indirect funding was more

683
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: than fifteen percent. He didn't understand how it worked, because

684
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,520
Speaker 1: why would He's the richest guy in the world. That

685
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 1: stuff seems like it'll get reversed in court. That said,

686
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: a lot of these trials have shut down. Do we

687
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: think they're going to get reversed in court definitively enough?

688
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: And do you I mean, is there a world in

689
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: which that stuff gets back on track.

690
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the administration has actually turned tail and reversed

691
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 4: course after some lower courts ruled against them. So when,

692
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,759
Speaker 4: for example, we got the early Office of Management and

693
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 4: Budget pause on all federal financial assistants, you know, they

694
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 4: quickly walk that back, I think within twenty four to

695
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 4: forty eight hours after a court said no, you can't

696
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 4: do that. Similarly, you know, on some of these national

697
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 4: institutions with health you know, caps on overhead costs, indirect costs,

698
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 4: they're too you know, they walked it back and then

699
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 4: tried to implement it through another agency. So I think

700
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 4: on some of this, you know, the judicial accountability coupled

701
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 4: with the public pushback. You know, on the NIH grants,

702
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 4: for example, you had Republican politicians being like, look, you're

703
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 4: going to kill the greatest jobs program that exists in

704
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 4: my state, right because indirect costs exactly fund a ton

705
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 4: of jobs, you know, for major research universities in a

706
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 4: variety of roles. So I think some of that is

707
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 4: going to be beaten back, but others it's really impossible

708
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,319
Speaker 4: to challenge and to turn back. So doge going into

709
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 4: systems and getting access to all of the data or

710
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 4: replacing some of the programming with their own. That's just

711
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 4: really hard to challenge in court, And once it happens,

712
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 4: it's hard to turn the clock.

713
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: Back excited to see what DOGE does with all our data.

714
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: It seems like a no brainer. We're almost time. But

715
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 1: I want you to talk about Amy Coney Barrett, hero

716
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: of the resistance.

717
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 4: Go okay, wildly overstated. She has ruled against the Trump

718
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 4: administration or Donald Trump in three cases. One was to

719
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 4: allow a New York State court to impose a virtual

720
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 4: sentence of zero time, you know, on the heels of

721
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 4: him assuming to office. Not a huge deal. Second was

722
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 4: to not pause a lower court decision that told the

723
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 4: administration you can't suddenly defund all of the United States

724
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 4: Agency for International Development. But what people might not appreciate

725
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:37,800
Speaker 4: is she later joined with the Republican appointees to pause

726
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 4: a lower court's decision that had said the same about

727
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 4: the Department of Education, and they delayed ruling in the

728
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 4: USA case until after the court ordered deadline for the

729
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 4: administration to pay up. So it wasn't even an unqualified

730
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 4: win for challengers of the Trump administration. So the idea

731
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 4: that she is some sort of liberal squish turned David

732
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 4: Souter turned moderate Independent is grossly overstated, and I think

733
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 4: people need to look at a broader set of cases

734
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 4: to realize she's totally in lockstep with the Republican appointees

735
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 4: on nature, social issues, and to the right of Justice

736
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,879
Speaker 4: Kavanaugh on some matters, like the Voting Rights Act case

737
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 4: from two years ago.

738
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, not good, not good. Thank you, thank you,

739
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: thank you, thank.

740
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 4: You, thank you so much for having me.

741
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: No moment, Rick Wilson.

742
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 3: Yes, Molly, what is your moment of fuck?

743
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:33,359
Speaker 1: Right?

744
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 4: So?

745
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 3: My moment of fuckery is an all time fan favorite.

746
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 3: It is the general he loves I know he loves

747
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 3: us both. It's the degenerate FOP. It's the walking STD

748
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 3: sample case of Paul Beach County. Actually he lives in

749
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: Broward now in an apartment, not even in a house.

750
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 1: It's Roger Stone really trying to get him, aren't listen.

751
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: Here's the thing about Roger Stone. This week he's out

752
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 3: calling for Mark Kelly, United States Senator, and to be executed,

753
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 3: to be tried and executed for treason because.

754
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: He complained about Trump's crypto scam. Is that why?

755
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 3: That is correct? He complained about Trump's crypto scam.

756
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 1: You're these free speech absolutists don't like free speech.

757
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,239
Speaker 3: These guys, they yeah, they love free speech, they love

758
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 3: talking a big game. And yet the slightest whisper of

759
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: criticism of Donnie, you know, Donnie sticky fingers and families,

760
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 3: obvious cryptos scam, an obvious flim flam. And they've got

761
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 3: Rogerstone out there calling for the execution of a US senator.

762
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 3: You know, I gotta tell you, if it comes down

763
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 3: to the revolution, I got I'm betting Roger is up

764
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 3: against the wall before Mark Kelly by a long damn stretch.

765
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 3: This guy is so vile and so corrupt, and it

766
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 3: just it just it's like one more, one more of

767
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 3: these things where don't let Republicans ever tell you they

768
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 3: value human military service, or honesty or free speech or

769
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 3: any of that ship because she's literally calling for Mark

770
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 3: Kelly to be executed Rick Wells by drunk Fast.

771
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

772
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

773
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

774
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

775
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going Thanks for listening,