Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm
Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mink listener Discretion is advised. In
Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, Albert Charles Houghton had it all. A prominent
Speaker 1: businessman and a respected local politician, Houghton enjoyed a reputation
Speaker 1: throughout New England as a man whose influence extended well
Speaker 1: beyond the bounds of his small town in the Berkshires.
Speaker 1: He also had a large and loving family with his
Speaker 1: wife and daughters, most of whom had married and were
Speaker 1: starting families of their own. Hoton lived in the grandest
Speaker 1: house in North Adams. He had everything until he didn't.
Speaker 1: A terrible accident one summer day changed the entire course
Speaker 1: of the Houghton family's history, leaving behind a legacy of
Speaker 1: tragedy and a mansion full of harrowing memories. That mansion
Speaker 1: is all so full of ghosts, the restless spirits of
Speaker 1: those who can't forgive themselves and those who can't forget.
Speaker 1: I'm Amy Brunei, and this is Haunted Road Today. North
Speaker 1: Adams is the smallest city in Massachusetts, nestled in the
Speaker 1: Berkshire Mountains of western mass The city is best known
Speaker 1: as the home of mass Mocha, the Massachusetts Museum of
Speaker 1: Contemporary Art, but once North Adams was a center of
Speaker 1: manufacturing during the Industrial Revolution, topping out at a population
Speaker 1: of twenty four in nineteen hundred, ac Houghton wasn't just
Speaker 1: an important figure in the history of North Adams. He
Speaker 1: was seminal in the founding of the city itself, which
Speaker 1: was incorporated in eighteen seventy eight and became an official
Speaker 1: city in eighteen ninety five. Over the course of his career,
Speaker 1: he served as bank president, away director, and president of
Speaker 1: Arnold Printworks, which is now the home of Masmocha. In addition,
Speaker 1: he served as a delegate at the eighteen ninety two
Speaker 1: Democratic National Convention and as a commissioner to the Chicago
Speaker 1: World's Fair in eighteen ninety three, and was a trustee
Speaker 1: of both Williams College and Boston University. Hoton was also
Speaker 1: the first mayor of North Adams, taking office in eighteen
Speaker 1: ninety six. Just after the end of his first term,
Speaker 1: he commissioned the Houghton Mansion, which would be the third
Speaker 1: home for his family in the city. The seventeen room
Speaker 1: home was built in the neo Classical Revival style, painted
Speaker 1: off white with gray blue accents on the windows and columns.
Speaker 1: The mansion featured Greek architectural details like etchings and engravings,
Speaker 1: and a roof of Spanish tiles inside Italian marble fireplaces
Speaker 1: reflected the glow of fires on mahogany paneled walls and ceilings.
Speaker 1: According to the Ghosts of the Berkshires, the house was
Speaker 1: intended to be a place where Houghton could enjoy happy
Speaker 1: times with his beloved family as he retired from public life.
Speaker 1: Outside in the yard, the Houghton Mansion has a large
Speaker 1: rock wall separating the yard from the side street. The
Speaker 1: wall was constructed from rocks removed from the Hoosac Tunnel,
Speaker 1: which connects North Adams to a neighboring town nicknamed the
Speaker 1: Bloody Pit. The Hoosac Tunnel has its own dark history.
Speaker 1: More than two hundred workers died during its construction, and
Speaker 1: people to this day report lantern holding apparitions and mysterious voices.
Speaker 1: Houghton's connection to the tunnel goes beyond building materials. For
Speaker 1: a time, he was the state director of the Fitchburg Railroad,
Speaker 1: which owned the Hoosac Tunnel at the time. The mansion
Speaker 1: was built. The Houghton family consisted of Acy Houghton, his
Speaker 1: wife Cornelia, and daughters Florence, Susan, Alice, and Mary. Their
Speaker 1: first child, Laura, had died at the age of three
Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy one. Their remaining daughters were grown and
Speaker 1: only unmarried. Mary moved into the mansion with her parents.
Speaker 1: In nineteen fourteen, an event occurred that which change the
Speaker 1: family's fate forever. In the spring of that year, Houghton
Speaker 1: bought his first automobile, a seven passenger pierced Arrow touring vehicle.
Speaker 1: He tasked John Witters, the family's servant of more than
Speaker 1: forty years, with learning to drive the car, but Whitters
Speaker 1: did so reluctantly, citing his age and his poor health
Speaker 1: as reasons he should not be the family's chauffeur, but
Speaker 1: Houghton insisted. According to a contemporary newspaper account, it is
Speaker 1: stated that the driver had taken up the duties of
Speaker 1: chauffeur under protest, but that his employer had insisted that
Speaker 1: inasmuch as Witters had been such an excellent and careful coachman,
Speaker 1: that he would also be a careful auto driver. It
Speaker 1: has also stated that Whitter's health had not been of
Speaker 1: the best during the spring and summer. On the morning
Speaker 1: of August first, nineteen fourteen, the North Adams Evening Transcript
Speaker 1: reported Houghton and his youngest thirty eight year old Mary,
Speaker 1: along with family friends doctor Robert Hutton and missus Sibil Hutton,
Speaker 1: took the car on a pleasure trip to Bennington, just
Speaker 1: across the border in Vermont, but the car would never
Speaker 1: reach its destination. At nine thirty am in pound All, Vermont,
Speaker 1: the car ascended a steep hill which was known to
Speaker 1: locals as a dangerous place for cars on the road.
Speaker 1: A construction crew and team of horses blocked the right
Speaker 1: side of the road. The Bennington Evening Banner reported that
Speaker 1: there have been several narrow escapes there. The old railing
Speaker 1: was taken down while the road was being repaired, and
Speaker 1: a new one was to have been put up when
Speaker 1: the work was completed. John Whitters pulled to the left
Speaker 1: of the road to avoid the construction The wheel of
Speaker 1: the car went onto the soft shoulder, causing Witters to
Speaker 1: lose control. Some witnesses believed that he mistook the accelerator
Speaker 1: of the car for the break, and some suggested that
Speaker 1: a cloud of dust impaired his vision. Though the vehicle
Speaker 1: was only going twelve miles per hour, the driver wasn't
Speaker 1: able to regain control. The car slid down a steep embankment,
Speaker 1: flipping three times and rolling fifty feet before landing in
Speaker 1: a pasture. Robert Hutton, Sibyl Hutton, Ac Houghton, and John
Speaker 1: Witters were thrown from the car. Whitters and Robert Hutton
Speaker 1: only sustained minor injuries, but Houghton suffered a fractured right shoulder.
Speaker 1: Sibil Hutton was crushed by the vehicle and died at
Speaker 1: the scene. She was thirty three years old. Mary Houghton
Speaker 1: was trapped in the backseat of the crushed vehicle and
Speaker 1: had to be removed by rescuers. The Bennington Evening Banner
Speaker 1: reported that she was badly crushed by the car and
Speaker 1: her spine was fractured. By three pm, the thirty seven
Speaker 1: year old Mary had passed away. According to the North
Speaker 1: Adams Evening Transcript, the area was so dangerous that many
Speaker 1: of those present after it occurred said that they were
Speaker 1: surprised that a catastrophe had not happened there before. The
Speaker 1: news of the accident shocked the town's residence, who gathered
Speaker 1: together in mourning. The North Adams Evening Transcript reported that
Speaker 1: news of the accident spread like wildfire throughout the city,
Speaker 1: and groups of prominent citizens gathered on main Street with
Speaker 1: anxious faces and expressions of sorrow upon their countenances. One
Speaker 1: newspaper described Mary as leading a quiet life of self sacrifice,
Speaker 1: explaining how she devoted herself to caring for her father,
Speaker 1: whose health had been precarious for some years past. Another
Speaker 1: account theorized that Houghton might not survive much longer because
Speaker 1: of the ordeal. The Bennington Banner wrote, the shock of
Speaker 1: the accident and what he has sustain than the death
Speaker 1: of a favorite daughter, have been so depressing that a
Speaker 1: fatal termination would not be at all surprising. But the
Speaker 1: first to die in the fallout of the accident would
Speaker 1: be John Whitters. Though he was under the watch of
Speaker 1: family gardener James Hines, who had stayed the night with
Speaker 1: Witterers out of concern for his mental health, he was
Speaker 1: able to slip away from the gardener's watch at four
Speaker 1: am on the morning of August second, nineteen fourteen, the
Speaker 1: day following the accident, Whitters ended his own life, shooting
Speaker 1: himself in the head with a volver in the basement
Speaker 1: of the mansion stables. He was sixty three years old.
Speaker 1: According to the Brattleboro Daily Reformer, Whitters brooded over the
Speaker 1: results of the accident, remarking over and over and over
Speaker 1: again that he could not live as he had caused
Speaker 1: the death of Miss Mary and her friend. The Berkshire
Speaker 1: County Eagle reported that he continually kept saying, I wish
Speaker 1: it was I and not the girls. Witters was buried
Speaker 1: in the Houghton family plot. Just nine days later, ac
Speaker 1: Houghton passed away in his home. His health had already
Speaker 1: been failing, and the injuries he sustained in the accident,
Speaker 1: coupled with the magnitude of his losses, must have surely
Speaker 1: contributed to his demise. Some said Houghton died of a
Speaker 1: broken heart. He was seventy years old when he passed.
Speaker 1: The whole town of North Adams mourned their former mayor
Speaker 1: on August thirteenth, nineteen fourteen. The day of his funeral,
Speaker 1: much of the town shut down. According to the Orkshire
Speaker 1: Evening Eagle, the Merchants Association attended in a body and
Speaker 1: all of the public buildings of the city are draped
Speaker 1: in mourning. The city Hall, public library, fire stations, banks
Speaker 1: and stores, as well as the transcript office present a
Speaker 1: somber appearance with their long streamers of black and white bunting.
Speaker 1: The sole topic of conversation yesterday was the big things
Speaker 1: that mister Houghton had accomplished for the city and her
Speaker 1: people during his lifetime, and the loss the city had
Speaker 1: sustained in his death. The stores of the city closed
Speaker 1: at two o'clock and will remain closed until evening. The
Speaker 1: Arnold print Works, of which he was head, and the
Speaker 1: Hoosac Cotton Mills, which he formerly owned, closed at noon
Speaker 1: and remained closed for the day. The wheels and all
Speaker 1: the factories of the city will be stopped from four
Speaker 1: to four oh five. The public library closed this afternoon
Speaker 1: from two to five out of respect for the late
Speaker 1: ex mayor. The reason all the machines stopped in the
Speaker 1: city at four pm was because that was the precise
Speaker 1: moment of Houghton's interment into the ground. The North Adam's
Speaker 1: Evening Transcript described these as unusual marks of respect after
Speaker 1: the accident, one of Houghton's surviving daughters Florence moved into
Speaker 1: the Houghton Mansion with her husband, William Gallup, who had
Speaker 1: been a business partner of her father. Florence looked after
Speaker 1: her mother, Cordelia Houghton, until the older woman died in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen. The family sold the home to the Lafayette
Speaker 1: Freemasons in nineteen twenty seven, who added another ten thousand
Speaker 1: square feet to the mansion's fifteen thousand square feet for
Speaker 1: a Masonic temple, which was dedicated in nineteen twenty nine.
Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, the Masons sold the building due to
Speaker 1: financial concerns. It was purchased by hotel developer Benjamin Spenson
Speaker 1: for one hundred and sixty thousand dollars. Today, the mansion
Speaker 1: looks much the same as it did in its heyday,
Speaker 1: with the exception of some peeling paint. The house isn't
Speaker 1: currently in use and sits empty, or I should say
Speaker 1: it's empty of living inhabitants. The Houghton Mansion has been
Speaker 1: described as one of the most haunted houses in all
Speaker 1: of New England by a regional PBS station. Over the years,
Speaker 1: many people have reported unusual incidents there, which are largely
Speaker 1: attributed to the after effects of the terrible auto accident
Speaker 1: that befell the Houghton family. Some also speculate that a
Speaker 1: curse may have been placed on the Houghton family as
Speaker 1: a result of the Hoosac Tunnel rocks used for the
Speaker 1: houses stone wall. Multiple Masons claimed to have paranormal experiences
Speaker 1: during the buildings ninety years as a Freemason temple. Two
Speaker 1: Masons spending the night there once heard the door of
Speaker 1: the building open and shut, followed by the sound of
Speaker 1: heavy footsteps. They assumed the sounds were being made by
Speaker 1: fellow Masons, but when the men went to greet them,
Speaker 1: no one was there and there were no footprints in
Speaker 1: the snow outside. Masons had such striking encounters in the
Speaker 1: mansion that in two thousand and four, Masons Josh and
Speaker 1: Nick Mantello started a ghost hunting group, Berkshire Paranormal, in
Speaker 1: response to the experiences they had of the Houghton mansion.
Speaker 1: Masons have reported seeing darting shadows in the temple area.
Speaker 1: Some who have had experiences in the home claim that
Speaker 1: if you wrap out the opening rhythm of shaven a
Speaker 1: haircut and the temple, a spirit will respond with two
Speaker 1: knocks for two bits I think that's a method that
Speaker 1: we perfected on ghost hunters. By the way, visitors to
Speaker 1: the mansion have often claimed to have seen Mary Houghton
Speaker 1: on the upper floors and to hear her voice. According
Speaker 1: to the Haunted Places, visitors also claim to have felt
Speaker 1: an overwhelming sense of sadness at Mary Houghton's room. Ghosts
Speaker 1: of the Berkshire's right set. When sitting in one particular chair,
Speaker 1: visitors often claim to be touched by an unseen hand.
Speaker 1: Ac Houghton has been frequently seen and heard in the house,
Speaker 1: especially in his bedroom. There, his bedroom door is set
Speaker 1: to open and close spontaneously, and items in his roomors
Speaker 1: sometimes moved when no one is present. According to Paranormal
Speaker 1: hotspots dot com, when AC's spirit is present, he is
Speaker 1: often perceived by many sensitives and psychics as an angry
Speaker 1: spirit does not wish to have strangers in his house.
Speaker 1: Former driver John Witters has been spotted in the house.
Speaker 1: He's said to take the form of shadows throughout the space.
Speaker 1: The closet doors in what's thought to have been his
Speaker 1: third floor bedroom are also said to move on their own,
Speaker 1: and some say they've heard footsteps on the servants stairs
Speaker 1: leading up to his room. The same deep sadness felt
Speaker 1: in Mary's room has also been reported here. At least
Speaker 1: one paranormal group has claimed to record an e VP
Speaker 1: that's said get out in Witters's bedroom. In the kitchen,
Speaker 1: people have reported seeing ghostly footprints on the just mopped floor.
Speaker 1: According to the Haunted Places site, the basement is said
Speaker 1: to be one of the most haunted spots in the
Speaker 1: entire property. In particular, the ghost of a young girl
Speaker 1: can often be seen walking across the basement and fading
Speaker 1: into the walls. The girl has been heard giggling and murmuring,
Speaker 1: and has been seen peeking around doors. She's even a
Speaker 1: little bit of a prankster. Some have claimed that she's
Speaker 1: tapped them on the legs, pulled their pant legs, or
Speaker 1: tug their hair. The Masons reported seeing her dark shape
Speaker 1: moving around the basement, as well as small, colorful sparks
Speaker 1: of light flashing about them in the dark that they
Speaker 1: have nicknamed Sparkle's one witness. When she appeared on Ghost Hunters,
Speaker 1: had a different story to share. She said she felt
Speaker 1: very uncomfortable, like the dark spirit didn't want me down here.
Speaker 1: Now I know someone who claims he had the most
Speaker 1: powerful paranormal experience of his life at the Houghton Mansion.
Speaker 1: To this day, he counts it as one of the
Speaker 1: most incredible locations he has ever investigated, and he has
Speaker 1: some great insight and experiences to share. Up next, we'll
Speaker 1: be talking to paranormal researcher Tim Weisberg. That's coming up
Speaker 1: after the break. Now, I am joined by one of
Speaker 1: my oldest not agewise, but longest, I don't know, one
Speaker 1: of the first people I met really in the paranormal field,
Speaker 1: mister Tim Weisberg. Who is You're You're a researcher, you're
Speaker 1: a host, you're a writer. Like you've done it all.
Speaker 1: So welcome, mister Weisberg. Thank you for having me. It's
Speaker 1: a yeah, just a jack of all trades. Whatever you
Speaker 1: need in the paranormal I'm your guy. There have been
Speaker 1: a number of times over the years where I text
Speaker 1: you the most random stuff and you always come through
Speaker 1: from you, so I super appreciate you. Now, I think
Speaker 1: I knew you because i'd been on the show when
Speaker 1: I lived in California, but I can't remember the first
Speaker 1: time I met you, but it has been I think
Speaker 1: it's been like seventeen or eighteen years. It's been a
Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, yeah. And what's great about it is
Speaker 1: that we were able to kind of forge that friendship
Speaker 1: across the country so that when we finally did meet
Speaker 1: in person, it didn't seem weird at all. No, not
Speaker 1: at all. We just knew we were weird and that
Speaker 1: was enough, right, And and that general weirdness that we have,
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't really work for everybody else, but
Speaker 1: when you get somebody else said has that weirdness, it
Speaker 1: becomes like a magnet. Well, I'm glad you're still a
Speaker 1: part of my world, as Arial says. But anyways, so
Speaker 1: I reached out to you when it came to Houghton
Speaker 1: Mansion just because I guess it would be considered almost
Speaker 1: a local hunt for us because it's in Massachusetts, it's
Speaker 1: a few hours away, and I know you've investigated it
Speaker 1: a number of times. Now. I had this kind of
Speaker 1: weird Mandela effect thing happening before today, Like I really
Speaker 1: felt like I had filmed an episode of ghost Hunters there,
Speaker 1: and I didn't, Like I fully like had this memory
Speaker 1: of I must have filmed an episode of ghost Hunters there.
Speaker 1: Now I've been there, but I definitely have never filmed there,
Speaker 1: but I think you've probably been there more than I have,
Speaker 1: and so I can't recall what kind of experiences I've had,
Speaker 1: but I know you've had many experiences there. Well, what
Speaker 1: I liked about the Hoton Mansion, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: speak of it in the past tense because we don't
Speaker 1: get to investigate it anymore, but it is still there.
Speaker 1: And what I liked about it was that it was
Speaker 1: a place where the paranormal was welcomed, which it's not
Speaker 1: like some of these other historic spots where were kind
Speaker 1: of forcing ourselves in as paranormal researchers to say, you know, please,
Speaker 1: historical society, give us a chance. It was a place
Speaker 1: that was being run by paranormal investigators who also happened
Speaker 1: to be Freemasons, and so you really had an easy
Speaker 1: connection with the spirits that were there because they knew
Speaker 1: what you were there for and they knew what you
Speaker 1: were doing, right, And I do remember that part of it,
Speaker 1: and I haven't touched on actually what happened to the
Speaker 1: mansion now? It is privately owned now, correct it is,
Speaker 1: so a few years ago it went up for sale,
Speaker 1: So the Freemasons decided that. From my understanding, they decided
Speaker 1: they didn't want to keep up with this building anymore because,
Speaker 1: in addition to the lodge that was built inside of it,
Speaker 1: which was huge unto itself, you know, there was a
Speaker 1: lot of space associated with this and I'm sure a
Speaker 1: lot of property taxes as well. So they wanted to
Speaker 1: get kind of get out from under it, and they
Speaker 1: put it up for sale. A number of people in
Speaker 1: the paranormal had talked about trying to buy it. I
Speaker 1: know John Zapfas had looked into moving his museum into it,
Speaker 1: which would have been a perfect fit, but it seemed
Speaker 1: like the town wasn't really that down with that idea,
Speaker 1: so it ended up being sold to I think it's
Speaker 1: an art organization that hasn't really done anything with it yet.
Speaker 1: So as far as I know, those ghosts are still
Speaker 1: wandering those halls waiting for someone to come in and
Speaker 1: talk to them, right. I always wonder, like what happens
Speaker 1: to the ghosts at that point? Are they like thankful
Speaker 1: that we're not there talking to them anymore? Or do
Speaker 1: they get lonely? Or do you any theories on that? Like,
Speaker 1: what do you think is happening in the hot And
Speaker 1: Mansion with the spirits right now. I mean I would
Speaker 1: say that in general, any haunted location that sits dormant
Speaker 1: for a while, I wouldn't worry too much about it,
Speaker 1: because I'm sure time for the spirit world is much
Speaker 1: different than it is for us. But at a place
Speaker 1: like Hoton Mansion, where they were coming all the time,
Speaker 1: and not just for you know, big investigations and events
Speaker 1: and things like that, but just Josh and Nick and
Speaker 1: the and the people who were investigating on a regular basis,
Speaker 1: they were always in there. So I'm sure to them
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, losing your loved one all over again.
Speaker 1: You know, somebody walked in there right now to investigate,
Speaker 1: either two things would happen. Either you would get nothing,
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, or you'd be overwhelmed with activity. And i
Speaker 1: think based on the way that the Hote Mansion has
Speaker 1: always been, it would be the latter. Now, as far
Speaker 1: as activity goes, what are some of the more common
Speaker 1: occurrences that people report there? Well, a lot of people
Speaker 1: that go their report encountering what they feel are the
Speaker 1: spirits of Ac Hopton and his daughter, because they feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, they would be the ones that would be
Speaker 1: most likely there, and of course they will always have
Speaker 1: these spirits, these encounters where they feel that it's Mary
Speaker 1: in her bedroom or you know, Ac in his study
Speaker 1: in the library downstairs, and of course you would expect
Speaker 1: that to happen. But what I find is one of
Speaker 1: the more intriguing ideas is when people go into the
Speaker 1: room that they believe was John Witter's room, or at
Speaker 1: least maybe the room where he committed suicide, or where
Speaker 1: his spirit went after he committed suicide, I should say,
Speaker 1: they feel like that room has this overwhelming heaviness. So
Speaker 1: while you might feel welcomed in the rest of the house,
Speaker 1: that's a room that is very foreboding, and so it
Speaker 1: actually takes a certain reserve and a person to be
Speaker 1: able to go in there and deal with that. And
Speaker 1: I've been in lots of rooms where tragedies have happened.
Speaker 1: I've laid in the spot where Abby Borden's body was
Speaker 1: found and all those kind of things, and I've never
Speaker 1: felt the kind of heaviness that you feel in the
Speaker 1: room that has associated with John Witters. And I think
Speaker 1: that's because the guilt that he feels is still palpable
Speaker 1: all this time later, Yeah, I can imagine like even
Speaker 1: if his kind of spirit is not there, like what
Speaker 1: he went through obviously, like he was tremendous for him.
Speaker 1: And I do like I feel like sometimes those emotional
Speaker 1: scars just kind of cause activity, or cause hauntings, or
Speaker 1: you can feel them, you know, years and years later.
Speaker 1: Still now when it comes to John Witters, besides that
Speaker 1: kind of heaviness, what sort of activity do you think
Speaker 1: would be associated with him in the location? Yeah. A
Speaker 1: lot of people, of course, will point to the story
Speaker 1: of seeing a light in the window of that room,
Speaker 1: and which I can tell you having verified having been
Speaker 1: in that room. There wasn't electricity being run into that
Speaker 1: room at least of the time that I was investigating there.
Speaker 1: You know, in the twenty twelve thirteen era, there was
Speaker 1: no electricity running to that room. So for a light
Speaker 1: to be seen in the window from there with nobody
Speaker 1: else in the building, I would think that it has
Speaker 1: to be something that is at least of interest, if
Speaker 1: not totally paranormal, and that I think is a sign
Speaker 1: to me that he's still trying to show that he's
Speaker 1: a good person. That's to me, that's what that light
Speaker 1: means it's like, please don't don't judge me on what
Speaker 1: happened in the in the final days of my life.
Speaker 1: Please judge me on my entire life overall. And I
Speaker 1: feel so bad about that because nobody blames John Witters
Speaker 1: for what happened except John Witters. Yeah. I mean, if
Speaker 1: there was ever a reason for someone to haunt a
Speaker 1: place or to stay behind like he has it, you know,
Speaker 1: there's always that kind of unfinished business, that feeling of guilt,
Speaker 1: like he is kind of the text book ghost for
Speaker 1: lack of a better term. But I know you've had
Speaker 1: personally some pretty profound experiences there, maybe one of your
Speaker 1: most profound experiences there. Do you want to elaborate on that? Absolutely? Well.
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, we went there. I'll be
Speaker 1: you know, totally upfront. We went for an event on
Speaker 1: a Saturday, So this is this is a little bit
Speaker 1: different than the person who might be going in there
Speaker 1: for the average paranormal investigation. As you know, you know,
Speaker 1: things can happen and you don't always have full control
Speaker 1: of the situation. So we know that we're going to
Speaker 1: get in there with about I think there was like
Speaker 1: fifty or sixty people that were coming to this event,
Speaker 1: but the night before, we had all got into town
Speaker 1: the night earlier, and we all met up for dinner,
Speaker 1: those of us who are like the guests and the
Speaker 1: people who are running it and everything, and Josh Mantello
Speaker 1: says to us, all, would you like to go and
Speaker 1: check out the house tonight before there's a big group
Speaker 1: there and you can actually do a real investigation. And
Speaker 1: if there was maybe a dozen fifteen people sitting around
Speaker 1: the table, half of them said, now we're just going
Speaker 1: to go back to the hotel. And I couldn't believe it, Like,
Speaker 1: what do you mean, You've got the hote mansion to yourself?
Speaker 1: This is perfect. So some of us all went over there,
Speaker 1: and the building lit up for us and like I've
Speaker 1: never seen in terms of activity, including as we're getting
Speaker 1: this walking tour from from Josh and Nick Mantello, we're
Speaker 1: in Witner's room, and as they're talking and telling the
Speaker 1: story of what people have experienced there, a voice came
Speaker 1: from the closet, this mumbled, garbled kind of like voice
Speaker 1: that everybody could hear, and some of the folks that
Speaker 1: were with us, of course, immediately ran over to the
Speaker 1: closet to see what was going on. Is there a
Speaker 1: tape recorder? Is Josh playing a trick on us? Because
Speaker 1: you know, we we're the new people here. I could
Speaker 1: see them pull something on us. And when we opened
Speaker 1: up the closet, there's nothing in there, and Josh and
Speaker 1: Nick are saying, no, no, we would never do something
Speaker 1: like that, and we're trying to figure out what the
Speaker 1: source of this could be and we can't find anything.
Speaker 1: So we finish off the tour and we get to
Speaker 1: see the entire mansion inside and out, even the parts
Speaker 1: that people don't normally go into. And then we're all
Speaker 1: in the library downstairs kind of hanging out, and I
Speaker 1: heard a noise come from the very top floor, the
Speaker 1: third floor, and I walked over to the grand staircase,
Speaker 1: and everybody that's in the house is all downstairs. Nobody
Speaker 1: could have gotten into the house. Well, I'm standing at
Speaker 1: the bottom of the staircase and I just yelled up
Speaker 1: the stairs, is there anybody up there? And a female
Speaker 1: voice says from the very top no, and then everybody
Speaker 1: kind of laughed. But really that just proved to us
Speaker 1: that there was somebody else there that you know, we
Speaker 1: couldn't see. That is wild. So it sounds like she
Speaker 1: did not want you there. If it was Mary, I
Speaker 1: could kind of understand that. Yeah, you know, then, you know,
Speaker 1: why would you want these people poking around talking about
Speaker 1: what happened to you all the time. But yeah, you
Speaker 1: consider how many people must have gone through that building.
Speaker 1: How many you know, obviously with the Freemasons, it is
Speaker 1: a fraternal organization. It is a male oriented organization, but
Speaker 1: there are women associated with that. They have the you know,
Speaker 1: anybody that ever has been a rainbow girl or any
Speaker 1: of that, those things are all associated with the Mason.
Speaker 1: So there would have been women in the building, So
Speaker 1: it could have been anyone, but I'd like to think
Speaker 1: that it was kind of married, just saying hey, guys,
Speaker 1: I'm done for tonight. You come back tomorrow. Sometimes I
Speaker 1: feel like when we're investigating these poor people become defined
Speaker 1: by their end. You know, It's almost like the lives
Speaker 1: that they led before this happened, or the memories that
Speaker 1: they made in these these buildings, all of that becomes
Speaker 1: null and void. And that's why I try to encourage
Speaker 1: investigators to not focus so much on the end, but
Speaker 1: focus on the part, the living part. You could, because
Speaker 1: none of us want to be thought of you as
Speaker 1: this poor tragic family that this terrible thing happened to.
Speaker 1: There's so many other facets of their lives that were
Speaker 1: much more important to them, I'm sure. And so maybe
Speaker 1: over time they start getting frustrated when people come in
Speaker 1: just kind of keep rehashing what happened to the family. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And when you think about it, I mean, every investigator
Speaker 1: that comes in, it's their first interaction with with say
Speaker 1: Mary Hopton, but for Mary Hopton it's her ten thousandth
Speaker 1: investor you investigation that she's been part of, So for
Speaker 1: her to have to keep asking answering that question all
Speaker 1: the time, you know, tell us about the car crash, Mary,
Speaker 1: tell us what was going through your mind when the
Speaker 1: car crash? Mary? Like that is it's got to be
Speaker 1: not only you know, tragic to have to relive that,
Speaker 1: but it's also going to get kind of monotonous as well. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And so I mean I think that's actually a very
Speaker 1: valuable lesson for investigators or people looking to investigate, is
Speaker 1: you know, don't just study what happened, like how what
Speaker 1: the end result was, but study like the entire life
Speaker 1: of someone that you are trying to reach out to
Speaker 1: because Ozar, most people aren't walking in with that knowledge.
Speaker 1: I mean that can be the difference between them interacting
Speaker 1: with you or not, you know, especially in the case
Speaker 1: of the Hotans, they do have such interesting history associated
Speaker 1: with them besides this terrible car crash, right, and when
Speaker 1: you think about the fact that that house was built
Speaker 1: basically on the sweat that Acy Holton had put in
Speaker 1: his entire life to amass that fortune that he did,
Speaker 1: you know, that was his way of kind of saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I've made it. And you know, when you've got guests
Speaker 1: coming into your home, the home that you're so proud of,
Speaker 1: don't you think you would want to talk about that
Speaker 1: and show that off and talk about, you know, how
Speaker 1: you were able to do this and where you picked
Speaker 1: out this from and all that, rather than saying, you know,
Speaker 1: all right, let's talk about the car crash again. So
Speaker 1: I like to poke around, especially a place like that,
Speaker 1: there's so many twists and turns you're walking around, you know,
Speaker 1: recording EVPs. You can say, well, tell me about this room, Macy,
Speaker 1: why did you decide to design it this way? Or
Speaker 1: who who made the decision to go with that molding
Speaker 1: and you'll probably find that you'll get more reaction that way.
Speaker 1: You know, everybody's favorite subject to talk about as themselves
Speaker 1: and the choices that they've made. So I'd much rather
Speaker 1: talk about that than the way that I died. Have
Speaker 1: you heard the theory that some of the stones there
Speaker 1: might be leading to some of the hauntings because they
Speaker 1: came from, like I think it's the Hoosic Tunnel nearby.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Do you think that's
Speaker 1: a possibility. I think so, and I think that that,
Speaker 1: you know, that's something that living in the Bridgewater Triangle,
Speaker 1: we see that in a lot of the buildings that
Speaker 1: are haunted here is you know, we'll say to people, well,
Speaker 1: what's the foundation of your home. They'll say, well, it's fieldstone,
Speaker 1: or it's granite, or it's you know, so something like that,
Speaker 1: and you say, okay, well let's trace where it might
Speaker 1: have come from. You find out it came from the
Speaker 1: quarry that's out in the Freetown State Forests. So right
Speaker 1: at the heart of the Bridgewater Triangle, they're they're picking
Speaker 1: up the materials to build their homes out of it.
Speaker 1: And I think the same thing can happen out there
Speaker 1: as well, if they're taking that, you know, building that
Speaker 1: tunnel and blasting away stone, and they've got to do
Speaker 1: something with that stone, Let's put it into these nice
Speaker 1: ornate homes out here. That probably won't cause any problems.
Speaker 1: And I do think that it's probably fair to say
Speaker 1: that people might not have known at the time that
Speaker 1: that tunnel had those hauntings associated with it, and I
Speaker 1: think it's something that predates there being the tunnel there,
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's that land there, So they
Speaker 1: probably didn't know any better when they did it, but
Speaker 1: I'm sure that some homes regret it now. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: years ago, we investigated a residence that was built with lumber. Basically,
Speaker 1: these people have been forcibly moved so that they could
Speaker 1: flood the town with a dam, and so a lot
Speaker 1: of the people kind of just took their houses down
Speaker 1: with the idea they would rebuild elsewhere, and then a
Speaker 1: lot of them did not, and so this house was
Speaker 1: constructed of other people's homes that had been moved because
Speaker 1: of this dam, and a lot of the activity was
Speaker 1: because of that. And so yeah, I think building materials,
Speaker 1: you don't think about it, but they can harbor something.
Speaker 1: What I also found interesting about the way that it
Speaker 1: was built is you've got this beautiful, ornate mansion that
Speaker 1: was constructed the way that the Hotans wanted it to be,
Speaker 1: and then you have the Freemasons when they took it
Speaker 1: over or they start constructing the Masonic lodge within the
Speaker 1: middle of it, which when you think about it, it's
Speaker 1: an odd blueprint, it's an odd floor plan to have
Speaker 1: it built this way. And now you're inserting everything that
Speaker 1: is associated with the Freemasons into the heart of this building.
Speaker 1: So you've got all of all the ceremony, all the
Speaker 1: things that go on now being amplified and recorded by
Speaker 1: these materials that are surrounding it completely. People always come
Speaker 1: to us thinking that, you know, buildings and had the
Speaker 1: Freemasons in them at some point are haunted because you know,
Speaker 1: they called on spirits or whatever it is. And I
Speaker 1: actually think it has more to do with just the
Speaker 1: ritual aspect of it and the emotions kind of put
Speaker 1: into what they were doing. You know, it's kind of
Speaker 1: the same idea anywhere where there's there's rituals happening, like
Speaker 1: there is this kind of you know, there's this major
Speaker 1: intention put into those and a lot of them are
Speaker 1: the same thing over and over and over again. I
Speaker 1: kind of forgot that aspect of like what an interesting
Speaker 1: haunt it is that you have obviously this family that
Speaker 1: was there and everything they went through, and then on
Speaker 1: top of that, the Freemasons made it a lodge, and
Speaker 1: then on top of that, you've got these building materials
Speaker 1: from this local tunnel that's supposedly super haunted, and it's
Speaker 1: just got so many facets to it. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1: And I have a little bit of a theory as
Speaker 1: to why the Freemasons might draw out more of the
Speaker 1: hotan activity as well, and why Free Masonic lodges have
Speaker 1: these ghosts associated with them. It's because Freemasons, you know,
Speaker 1: the belief and a higher power is the key central
Speaker 1: point of what they believe in, but they don't need
Speaker 1: to have all the religious dogma associated with it. So
Speaker 1: when somebody goes in to investigate a haunted location, they've
Speaker 1: got to kind of check their own personal religious beliefs
Speaker 1: at the door, because some religions tell you that you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be talking to spirits, you shouldn't believe in spirits,
Speaker 1: that spirits are actually the devil trying to manipulate you.
Speaker 1: All these different belief systems that come into it can
Speaker 1: screw with the interaction a little bit. When you're dealing
Speaker 1: with freemasons who just say, listen, we don't care how
Speaker 1: you believe, as long as you leave, as long as
Speaker 1: you believe in something greater than yourself. I think that
Speaker 1: makes it a lot easier for this activity to come through. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought of it that way before. That's
Speaker 1: really interesting. Now, did you have any other experiences there
Speaker 1: while you were visiting, Well, when you were talking about
Speaker 1: the way that you make these connections with the spirits there,
Speaker 1: that is the place. The Hote Mansion is the place
Speaker 1: that actually changed me as an investigator, because I was
Speaker 1: somebody who was kind of impatient on investigations. I would
Speaker 1: go in guns blazing, you know, and say, come on, ghost,
Speaker 1: come out, show us who killed you? How'd you die?
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you die? How long you've been here? Like I'm
Speaker 1: I just want my questions answered and I want to
Speaker 1: kind of move on. And it was the Hote Mansion that,
Speaker 1: you know, for lack of a better term, taught me
Speaker 1: that ghosts are people too, right. It was in the
Speaker 1: lodge itself, there's a section in the back where they
Speaker 1: used to have secret ceremonies, and then over that section
Speaker 1: there was another kind of secret area and we were
Speaker 1: investigating in there. We were getting all kinds of noises,
Speaker 1: and you know, if we did Knox, we would get
Speaker 1: Knox in response. So if we did the old shaven
Speaker 1: a haircut, we'd get the two bits back. And all
Speaker 1: the stuff was happening. We stood there and started to
Speaker 1: watch shadow figures emerge and start walking down the hallway,
Speaker 1: to the point where at one point we're watching a
Speaker 1: procession of them walk right in front of our eyes
Speaker 1: down the hallway, And that alone was kind of mind
Speaker 1: blowing because that was the most intense shadow activity i'd
Speaker 1: had to that point. But a little bit later on
Speaker 1: in the evening, there was one shadow way down at
Speaker 1: the end of the hall by itself, and we were
Speaker 1: kind of calling him down, and over the course of
Speaker 1: a good amount of time, we finally got him to
Speaker 1: come down and stand in front of us. So we're
Speaker 1: seeing this shadow person standing right before our eyes. There
Speaker 1: was myself and about four other people, and I held
Speaker 1: my hand out and this shadow person actually grabbed my hand,
Speaker 1: wrapped its hand around my hand and began pumping my
Speaker 1: arm up and down in a handshake motion. So I
Speaker 1: shook hands with the shadow person. That is intense. It
Speaker 1: really was the most intense thing that's ever happened to
Speaker 1: me in an investigation because I just started crying. I
Speaker 1: couldn't help it, Like the tears just started coming out
Speaker 1: of my eyes because I realized, like all of this
Speaker 1: stuff that I've been chasing around, I knew that it
Speaker 1: was real. I knew the activity was real, but I
Speaker 1: didn't realize the humanity behind it. And I went downstairs
Speaker 1: and everybody could tell something had happened to me, and
Speaker 1: I had to make the decision do I tell people
Speaker 1: about what happened to me because they're not going to
Speaker 1: believe me. And this is to this point, I'd done
Speaker 1: a bunch of events, but I'd never been the person
Speaker 1: to have the personal experience. I didn't want to be
Speaker 1: because I knew people would think I was just making
Speaker 1: it up because I want to sell tickets to the
Speaker 1: next event. I was really nervous about saying anything. And
Speaker 1: I talked with a friend of ours, Frank Grace, the photographer,
Speaker 1: and he said, no, dude, you've got to tell people.
Speaker 1: If it affected you that much, and when I told everybody,
Speaker 1: you know, and actually everybody did believe me and was
Speaker 1: very supportive, but it changed who I was as a
Speaker 1: person and as an investigator going forward. I love that experience.
Speaker 1: That's insane, and I wish that would happen to me,
Speaker 1: like I would love nothing more that they're just very
Speaker 1: cordially greet a ghost like would like a living person
Speaker 1: in front of you, like a handshake and a hello, like.
Speaker 1: I think that is amazing, and I think it also
Speaker 1: shows the power of the personal experience. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of us start doing this to collect evidence and
Speaker 1: we want to, you know, prove that ghosts exist, or
Speaker 1: we want to have something crazy happen, and then at
Speaker 1: some point, like your equipment and collecting you know, evidence,
Speaker 1: I say with air quotes, becomes so much less important
Speaker 1: than these kind of personal experiences that solidify your theories
Speaker 1: and your thoughts and again bring humanity to your experiences
Speaker 1: and to these these spirits. And I think it makes
Speaker 1: the more passionate type investigators like once you make that shift,
Speaker 1: and so it sounds like that was that moment for you,
Speaker 1: oh for sure, And it put a thought into my
Speaker 1: head that I'm sure that you've had in your head
Speaker 1: many times and your investigations too, where I thought to myself,
Speaker 1: maybe I should stop doing this and just leave them alone.
Speaker 1: But then, you know, you realize that they are reaching
Speaker 1: out to you because they do have something to say,
Speaker 1: and that you can be the conduit for that. You know,
Speaker 1: obviously there are some spirits in some places that that
Speaker 1: don't want to interact and so they just choose not to.
Speaker 1: But um, I realized there that you know, to do
Speaker 1: this now going forward. I was that person. I got
Speaker 1: into this with that idea, I'm going to be the
Speaker 1: person that's going to catch the evidence it's going to
Speaker 1: prove to the world that goes too real. And then
Speaker 1: that that was the night that made me realize that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not about that. It's about bringing people
Speaker 1: to where they can have a one on one experience
Speaker 1: to either you know, help them believe something they weren't
Speaker 1: open to before, or to solidify that belief that they
Speaker 1: always had but needed the proof. Right, Yeah, exactly. I mean,
Speaker 1: I I love that, and you know it's it is
Speaker 1: you know, to your point of kind of thinking for
Speaker 1: a moment, should we leave them alone? You know, you
Speaker 1: have to kind of instill like free will and free
Speaker 1: thought on them, Like they will tell you if they
Speaker 1: want you to leave them alone, but if they would
Speaker 1: like to interact with you, they will. It's just like
Speaker 1: any living person standing right in front of you, and
Speaker 1: how many people do ignore them, you know, And that's
Speaker 1: why there's people like us who do at least try
Speaker 1: to reach out and in your case, actually shake their hand. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And what I've found to be kind of the lasting
Speaker 1: thing that stuck with me is that feeling of there
Speaker 1: was no difference between me and whatever the thing was
Speaker 1: that was shaking my hand. So you know, in some cases,
Speaker 1: you look at these stories that you hear and people
Speaker 1: will tell you, well, I saw their shadow figure and
Speaker 1: it's I smelled sulfur, so it must have been a
Speaker 1: demon or you know, you hear all these characterizations that
Speaker 1: people have. That experience gave me enough of an up
Speaker 1: close experience that I can say that I just I
Speaker 1: feel comfortable around these entities that they really are just
Speaker 1: another person and I don't need to start to worry
Speaker 1: about all these you know, maybe maybe some of these
Speaker 1: manifestations are other things, but from that point on, I
Speaker 1: always kind of looked at everything as being you know,
Speaker 1: just like me, and thinking about it that way has
Speaker 1: changed the way that I asked the questions. It's the
Speaker 1: way that I try to get interaction, and it's made
Speaker 1: me feel better when I leave each location that I hopefully,
Speaker 1: at the very least gave them some entertainment for the night.
Speaker 1: Yeah seriously, Well, I'm sure you did, and I love that.
Speaker 1: So now, on that note, tell us where people can
Speaker 1: find you. What is Tim Wiseberg up to these days? Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm always talking about the paranormal somewhere or other. But
Speaker 1: my home base is the Spooky South Coast radio show
Speaker 1: and podcast, which you can get anywhere podcasts are found.
Speaker 1: I have my own network, the midnight FM network Midnight
Speaker 1: dot FM, where I do a show on Friday nights
Speaker 1: called Midnight Society. And basically, you know, for me, it's
Speaker 1: all about any opportunity I can have to talk about
Speaker 1: this stuff. So sometimes I might work behind the scenes
Speaker 1: on things, sometimes I might be in front of the
Speaker 1: camera on some things, but I you know, I'm always
Speaker 1: looking for a way to make these stories kind of
Speaker 1: more palatable for people, and to make it so that
Speaker 1: they realize that when they do have something strange happened
Speaker 1: to them. It's okay, it's the paranormals actually kind of normal. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 1: It's great to talk to you. And yeah, as always,
Speaker 1: I super appreciate you Tim, you are an awesome person,
Speaker 1: and everyone out there, I highly recommend you seek him
Speaker 1: out if you are not familiar with him already. Like
Speaker 1: I said, I was a Tim fan well before I
Speaker 1: was ever on television. I was listening to Spooky South
Speaker 1: Coast way back in the day in California. So it's
Speaker 1: definitely well worth the seeking out of mister Weisberg. So
Speaker 1: thank you, sir. I really appreciate you taking the time. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you, and thank you for all your support over
Speaker 1: the years. Potent Mansion has become that empty mansion in
Speaker 1: the neighborhood that kids ride their bicycles by, quickly wondering
Speaker 1: what could be lurking inside. It's the stuff of legends
Speaker 1: and lore and most assuredly haunted. But I think good
Speaker 1: stands as a reminder of something else, a lesson each
Speaker 1: of us could take stock in the realization that you
Speaker 1: can be on top of the world, you can have
Speaker 1: every part of your beautiful life, meticulously planned and accounted for,
Speaker 1: but one moment can derail it all horribly. Never forget that.
Speaker 1: Always live life to its fullest, because you never know
Speaker 1: when a dark hour may be lurking ahead. I'm Amy
Speaker 1: Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is hosted
Speaker 1: and written by me Amy Bruney, with additional research by
Speaker 1: Taylor Haggerdorn and Cassandra day Alba. This show is edited
Speaker 1: and produced by Rima el Kali, with supervising producer Josh
Speaker 1: Thane and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick.
Speaker 1: Haunted Road is a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and
Speaker 1: Mile from Aaron Manke. Learn more about this show over
Speaker 1: at Grimm Andmild dot com, and for more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.