1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mink listener Discretion is advised. In 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen, Albert Charles Houghton had it all. A prominent 4 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: businessman and a respected local politician, Houghton enjoyed a reputation 5 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: throughout New England as a man whose influence extended well 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: beyond the bounds of his small town in the Berkshires. 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: He also had a large and loving family with his 8 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: wife and daughters, most of whom had married and were 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: starting families of their own. Hoton lived in the grandest 10 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: house in North Adams. He had everything until he didn't. 11 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: A terrible accident one summer day changed the entire course 12 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: of the Houghton family's history, leaving behind a legacy of 13 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: tragedy and a mansion full of harrowing memories. That mansion 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: is all so full of ghosts, the restless spirits of 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: those who can't forgive themselves and those who can't forget. 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: I'm Amy Brunei, and this is Haunted Road Today. North 17 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: Adams is the smallest city in Massachusetts, nestled in the 18 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: Berkshire Mountains of western mass The city is best known 19 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: as the home of mass Mocha, the Massachusetts Museum of 20 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: Contemporary Art, but once North Adams was a center of 21 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 1: manufacturing during the Industrial Revolution, topping out at a population 22 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: of twenty four in nineteen hundred, ac Houghton wasn't just 23 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: an important figure in the history of North Adams. He 24 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: was seminal in the founding of the city itself, which 25 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: was incorporated in eighteen seventy eight and became an official 26 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: city in eighteen ninety five. Over the course of his career, 27 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: he served as bank president, away director, and president of 28 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: Arnold Printworks, which is now the home of Masmocha. In addition, 29 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: he served as a delegate at the eighteen ninety two 30 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: Democratic National Convention and as a commissioner to the Chicago 31 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: World's Fair in eighteen ninety three, and was a trustee 32 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: of both Williams College and Boston University. Hoton was also 33 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: the first mayor of North Adams, taking office in eighteen 34 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,679 Speaker 1: ninety six. Just after the end of his first term, 35 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: he commissioned the Houghton Mansion, which would be the third 36 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: home for his family in the city. The seventeen room 37 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: home was built in the neo Classical Revival style, painted 38 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: off white with gray blue accents on the windows and columns. 39 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: The mansion featured Greek architectural details like etchings and engravings, 40 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: and a roof of Spanish tiles inside Italian marble fireplaces 41 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: reflected the glow of fires on mahogany paneled walls and ceilings. 42 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: According to the Ghosts of the Berkshires, the house was 43 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: intended to be a place where Houghton could enjoy happy 44 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: times with his beloved family as he retired from public life. 45 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: Outside in the yard, the Houghton Mansion has a large 46 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: rock wall separating the yard from the side street. The 47 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: wall was constructed from rocks removed from the Hoosac Tunnel, 48 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: which connects North Adams to a neighboring town nicknamed the 49 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: Bloody Pit. The Hoosac Tunnel has its own dark history. 50 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: More than two hundred workers died during its construction, and 51 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: people to this day report lantern holding apparitions and mysterious voices. 52 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: Houghton's connection to the tunnel goes beyond building materials. For 53 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: a time, he was the state director of the Fitchburg Railroad, 54 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: which owned the Hoosac Tunnel at the time. The mansion 55 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: was built. The Houghton family consisted of Acy Houghton, his 56 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: wife Cornelia, and daughters Florence, Susan, Alice, and Mary. Their 57 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: first child, Laura, had died at the age of three 58 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy one. Their remaining daughters were grown and 59 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: only unmarried. Mary moved into the mansion with her parents. 60 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: In nineteen fourteen, an event occurred that which change the 61 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: family's fate forever. In the spring of that year, Houghton 62 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: bought his first automobile, a seven passenger pierced Arrow touring vehicle. 63 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: He tasked John Witters, the family's servant of more than 64 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: forty years, with learning to drive the car, but Whitters 65 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: did so reluctantly, citing his age and his poor health 66 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: as reasons he should not be the family's chauffeur, but 67 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: Houghton insisted. According to a contemporary newspaper account, it is 68 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: stated that the driver had taken up the duties of 69 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: chauffeur under protest, but that his employer had insisted that 70 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: inasmuch as Witters had been such an excellent and careful coachman, 71 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: that he would also be a careful auto driver. It 72 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: has also stated that Whitter's health had not been of 73 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: the best during the spring and summer. On the morning 74 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: of August first, nineteen fourteen, the North Adams Evening Transcript 75 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 1: reported Houghton and his youngest thirty eight year old Mary, 76 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: along with family friends doctor Robert Hutton and missus Sibil Hutton, 77 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: took the car on a pleasure trip to Bennington, just 78 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: across the border in Vermont, but the car would never 79 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,919 Speaker 1: reach its destination. At nine thirty am in pound All, Vermont, 80 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: the car ascended a steep hill which was known to 81 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: locals as a dangerous place for cars on the road. 82 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: A construction crew and team of horses blocked the right 83 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: side of the road. The Bennington Evening Banner reported that 84 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: there have been several narrow escapes there. The old railing 85 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,160 Speaker 1: was taken down while the road was being repaired, and 86 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: a new one was to have been put up when 87 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: the work was completed. John Whitters pulled to the left 88 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: of the road to avoid the construction The wheel of 89 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: the car went onto the soft shoulder, causing Witters to 90 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: lose control. Some witnesses believed that he mistook the accelerator 91 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: of the car for the break, and some suggested that 92 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: a cloud of dust impaired his vision. Though the vehicle 93 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: was only going twelve miles per hour, the driver wasn't 94 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: able to regain control. The car slid down a steep embankment, 95 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: flipping three times and rolling fifty feet before landing in 96 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: a pasture. Robert Hutton, Sibyl Hutton, Ac Houghton, and John 97 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: Witters were thrown from the car. Whitters and Robert Hutton 98 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: only sustained minor injuries, but Houghton suffered a fractured right shoulder. 99 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: Sibil Hutton was crushed by the vehicle and died at 100 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: the scene. She was thirty three years old. Mary Houghton 101 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: was trapped in the backseat of the crushed vehicle and 102 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: had to be removed by rescuers. The Bennington Evening Banner 103 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: reported that she was badly crushed by the car and 104 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: her spine was fractured. By three pm, the thirty seven 105 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: year old Mary had passed away. According to the North 106 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: Adams Evening Transcript, the area was so dangerous that many 107 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: of those present after it occurred said that they were 108 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: surprised that a catastrophe had not happened there before. The 109 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: news of the accident shocked the town's residence, who gathered 110 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: together in mourning. The North Adams Evening Transcript reported that 111 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,679 Speaker 1: news of the accident spread like wildfire throughout the city, 112 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: and groups of prominent citizens gathered on main Street with 113 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: anxious faces and expressions of sorrow upon their countenances. One 114 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: newspaper described Mary as leading a quiet life of self sacrifice, 115 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: explaining how she devoted herself to caring for her father, 116 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: whose health had been precarious for some years past. Another 117 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: account theorized that Houghton might not survive much longer because 118 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: of the ordeal. The Bennington Banner wrote, the shock of 119 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: the accident and what he has sustain than the death 120 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: of a favorite daughter, have been so depressing that a 121 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: fatal termination would not be at all surprising. But the 122 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 1: first to die in the fallout of the accident would 123 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: be John Whitters. Though he was under the watch of 124 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: family gardener James Hines, who had stayed the night with 125 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: Witterers out of concern for his mental health, he was 126 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: able to slip away from the gardener's watch at four 127 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: am on the morning of August second, nineteen fourteen, the 128 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: day following the accident, Whitters ended his own life, shooting 129 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: himself in the head with a volver in the basement 130 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: of the mansion stables. He was sixty three years old. 131 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: According to the Brattleboro Daily Reformer, Whitters brooded over the 132 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: results of the accident, remarking over and over and over 133 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: again that he could not live as he had caused 134 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: the death of Miss Mary and her friend. The Berkshire 135 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: County Eagle reported that he continually kept saying, I wish 136 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: it was I and not the girls. Witters was buried 137 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: in the Houghton family plot. Just nine days later, ac 138 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: Houghton passed away in his home. His health had already 139 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: been failing, and the injuries he sustained in the accident, 140 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: coupled with the magnitude of his losses, must have surely 141 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: contributed to his demise. Some said Houghton died of a 142 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: broken heart. He was seventy years old when he passed. 143 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: The whole town of North Adams mourned their former mayor 144 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: on August thirteenth, nineteen fourteen. The day of his funeral, 145 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: much of the town shut down. According to the Orkshire 146 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: Evening Eagle, the Merchants Association attended in a body and 147 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: all of the public buildings of the city are draped 148 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: in mourning. The city Hall, public library, fire stations, banks 149 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: and stores, as well as the transcript office present a 150 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: somber appearance with their long streamers of black and white bunting. 151 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: The sole topic of conversation yesterday was the big things 152 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: that mister Houghton had accomplished for the city and her 153 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: people during his lifetime, and the loss the city had 154 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: sustained in his death. The stores of the city closed 155 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: at two o'clock and will remain closed until evening. The 156 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: Arnold print Works, of which he was head, and the 157 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: Hoosac Cotton Mills, which he formerly owned, closed at noon 158 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: and remained closed for the day. The wheels and all 159 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,320 Speaker 1: the factories of the city will be stopped from four 160 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: to four oh five. The public library closed this afternoon 161 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: from two to five out of respect for the late 162 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: ex mayor. The reason all the machines stopped in the 163 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: city at four pm was because that was the precise 164 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: moment of Houghton's interment into the ground. The North Adam's 165 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: Evening Transcript described these as unusual marks of respect after 166 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: the accident, one of Houghton's surviving daughters Florence moved into 167 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: the Houghton Mansion with her husband, William Gallup, who had 168 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: been a business partner of her father. Florence looked after 169 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: her mother, Cordelia Houghton, until the older woman died in 170 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: nineteen sixteen. The family sold the home to the Lafayette 171 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: Freemasons in nineteen twenty seven, who added another ten thousand 172 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: square feet to the mansion's fifteen thousand square feet for 173 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 1: a Masonic temple, which was dedicated in nineteen twenty nine. 174 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, the Masons sold the building due to 175 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: financial concerns. It was purchased by hotel developer Benjamin Spenson 176 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: for one hundred and sixty thousand dollars. Today, the mansion 177 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: looks much the same as it did in its heyday, 178 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: with the exception of some peeling paint. The house isn't 179 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: currently in use and sits empty, or I should say 180 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: it's empty of living inhabitants. The Houghton Mansion has been 181 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: described as one of the most haunted houses in all 182 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: of New England by a regional PBS station. Over the years, 183 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: many people have reported unusual incidents there, which are largely 184 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: attributed to the after effects of the terrible auto accident 185 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: that befell the Houghton family. Some also speculate that a 186 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 1: curse may have been placed on the Houghton family as 187 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: a result of the Hoosac Tunnel rocks used for the 188 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,319 Speaker 1: houses stone wall. Multiple Masons claimed to have paranormal experiences 189 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: during the buildings ninety years as a Freemason temple. Two 190 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: Masons spending the night there once heard the door of 191 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: the building open and shut, followed by the sound of 192 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 1: heavy footsteps. They assumed the sounds were being made by 193 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: fellow Masons, but when the men went to greet them, 194 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: no one was there and there were no footprints in 195 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: the snow outside. Masons had such striking encounters in the 196 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: mansion that in two thousand and four, Masons Josh and 197 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: Nick Mantello started a ghost hunting group, Berkshire Paranormal, in 198 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: response to the experiences they had of the Houghton mansion. 199 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: Masons have reported seeing darting shadows in the temple area. 200 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 1: Some who have had experiences in the home claim that 201 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: if you wrap out the opening rhythm of shaven a 202 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: haircut and the temple, a spirit will respond with two 203 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: knocks for two bits I think that's a method that 204 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: we perfected on ghost hunters. By the way, visitors to 205 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 1: the mansion have often claimed to have seen Mary Houghton 206 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: on the upper floors and to hear her voice. According 207 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: to the Haunted Places, visitors also claim to have felt 208 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: an overwhelming sense of sadness at Mary Houghton's room. Ghosts 209 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: of the Berkshire's right set. When sitting in one particular chair, 210 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: visitors often claim to be touched by an unseen hand. 211 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: Ac Houghton has been frequently seen and heard in the house, 212 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 1: especially in his bedroom. There, his bedroom door is set 213 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: to open and close spontaneously, and items in his roomors 214 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: sometimes moved when no one is present. According to Paranormal 215 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: hotspots dot com, when AC's spirit is present, he is 216 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: often perceived by many sensitives and psychics as an angry 217 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: spirit does not wish to have strangers in his house. 218 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: Former driver John Witters has been spotted in the house. 219 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: He's said to take the form of shadows throughout the space. 220 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: The closet doors in what's thought to have been his 221 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: third floor bedroom are also said to move on their own, 222 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: and some say they've heard footsteps on the servants stairs 223 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: leading up to his room. The same deep sadness felt 224 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: in Mary's room has also been reported here. At least 225 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: one paranormal group has claimed to record an e VP 226 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: that's said get out in Witters's bedroom. In the kitchen, 227 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: people have reported seeing ghostly footprints on the just mopped floor. 228 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: According to the Haunted Places site, the basement is said 229 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: to be one of the most haunted spots in the 230 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: entire property. In particular, the ghost of a young girl 231 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: can often be seen walking across the basement and fading 232 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: into the walls. The girl has been heard giggling and murmuring, 233 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: and has been seen peeking around doors. She's even a 234 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: little bit of a prankster. Some have claimed that she's 235 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: tapped them on the legs, pulled their pant legs, or 236 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: tug their hair. The Masons reported seeing her dark shape 237 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: moving around the basement, as well as small, colorful sparks 238 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,079 Speaker 1: of light flashing about them in the dark that they 239 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: have nicknamed Sparkle's one witness. When she appeared on Ghost Hunters, 240 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: had a different story to share. She said she felt 241 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: very uncomfortable, like the dark spirit didn't want me down here. 242 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: Now I know someone who claims he had the most 243 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: powerful paranormal experience of his life at the Houghton Mansion. 244 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: To this day, he counts it as one of the 245 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: most incredible locations he has ever investigated, and he has 246 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: some great insight and experiences to share. Up next, we'll 247 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: be talking to paranormal researcher Tim Weisberg. That's coming up 248 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: after the break. Now, I am joined by one of 249 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: my oldest not agewise, but longest, I don't know, one 250 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: of the first people I met really in the paranormal field, 251 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 1: mister Tim Weisberg. Who is You're You're a researcher, you're 252 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: a host, you're a writer. Like you've done it all. 253 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: So welcome, mister Weisberg. Thank you for having me. It's 254 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: a yeah, just a jack of all trades. Whatever you 255 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: need in the paranormal I'm your guy. There have been 256 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: a number of times over the years where I text 257 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: you the most random stuff and you always come through 258 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: from you, so I super appreciate you. Now, I think 259 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: I knew you because i'd been on the show when 260 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: I lived in California, but I can't remember the first 261 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: time I met you, but it has been I think 262 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: it's been like seventeen or eighteen years. It's been a 263 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, yeah. And what's great about it is 264 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: that we were able to kind of forge that friendship 265 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 1: across the country so that when we finally did meet 266 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: in person, it didn't seem weird at all. No, not 267 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: at all. We just knew we were weird and that 268 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: was enough, right, And and that general weirdness that we have, 269 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't really work for everybody else, but 270 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: when you get somebody else said has that weirdness, it 271 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: becomes like a magnet. Well, I'm glad you're still a 272 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: part of my world, as Arial says. But anyways, so 273 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: I reached out to you when it came to Houghton 274 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: Mansion just because I guess it would be considered almost 275 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: a local hunt for us because it's in Massachusetts, it's 276 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: a few hours away, and I know you've investigated it 277 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: a number of times. Now. I had this kind of 278 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: weird Mandela effect thing happening before today, Like I really 279 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: felt like I had filmed an episode of ghost Hunters there, 280 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: and I didn't, Like I fully like had this memory 281 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: of I must have filmed an episode of ghost Hunters there. 282 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: Now I've been there, but I definitely have never filmed there, 283 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: but I think you've probably been there more than I have, 284 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: and so I can't recall what kind of experiences I've had, 285 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: but I know you've had many experiences there. Well, what 286 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: I liked about the Hoton Mansion, and I'm going to 287 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: speak of it in the past tense because we don't 288 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: get to investigate it anymore, but it is still there. 289 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: And what I liked about it was that it was 290 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: a place where the paranormal was welcomed, which it's not 291 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,360 Speaker 1: like some of these other historic spots where were kind 292 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,679 Speaker 1: of forcing ourselves in as paranormal researchers to say, you know, please, 293 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: historical society, give us a chance. It was a place 294 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: that was being run by paranormal investigators who also happened 295 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: to be Freemasons, and so you really had an easy 296 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: connection with the spirits that were there because they knew 297 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 1: what you were there for and they knew what you 298 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: were doing, right, And I do remember that part of it, 299 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: and I haven't touched on actually what happened to the 300 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: mansion now? It is privately owned now, correct it is, 301 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,959 Speaker 1: so a few years ago it went up for sale, 302 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: So the Freemasons decided that. From my understanding, they decided 303 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:42,880 Speaker 1: they didn't want to keep up with this building anymore because, 304 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: in addition to the lodge that was built inside of it, 305 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 1: which was huge unto itself, you know, there was a 306 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: lot of space associated with this and I'm sure a 307 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: lot of property taxes as well. So they wanted to 308 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: get kind of get out from under it, and they 309 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: put it up for sale. A number of people in 310 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: the paranormal had talked about trying to buy it. I 311 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: know John Zapfas had looked into moving his museum into it, 312 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: which would have been a perfect fit, but it seemed 313 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: like the town wasn't really that down with that idea, 314 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: so it ended up being sold to I think it's 315 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: an art organization that hasn't really done anything with it yet. 316 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: So as far as I know, those ghosts are still 317 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: wandering those halls waiting for someone to come in and 318 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: talk to them, right. I always wonder, like what happens 319 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: to the ghosts at that point? Are they like thankful 320 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: that we're not there talking to them anymore? Or do 321 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: they get lonely? Or do you any theories on that? Like, 322 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: what do you think is happening in the hot And 323 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: Mansion with the spirits right now. I mean I would 324 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 1: say that in general, any haunted location that sits dormant 325 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: for a while, I wouldn't worry too much about it, 326 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: because I'm sure time for the spirit world is much 327 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: different than it is for us. But at a place 328 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: like Hoton Mansion, where they were coming all the time, 329 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: and not just for you know, big investigations and events 330 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: and things like that, but just Josh and Nick and 331 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: the and the people who were investigating on a regular basis, 332 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: they were always in there. So I'm sure to them 333 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, losing your loved one all over again. 334 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: You know, somebody walked in there right now to investigate, 335 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: either two things would happen. Either you would get nothing, 336 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,479 Speaker 1: absolutely nothing, or you'd be overwhelmed with activity. And i 337 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,399 Speaker 1: think based on the way that the Hote Mansion has 338 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: always been, it would be the latter. Now, as far 339 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 1: as activity goes, what are some of the more common 340 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: occurrences that people report there? Well, a lot of people 341 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: that go their report encountering what they feel are the 342 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 1: spirits of Ac Hopton and his daughter, because they feel like, 343 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, they would be the ones that would be 344 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: most likely there, and of course they will always have 345 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: these spirits, these encounters where they feel that it's Mary 346 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: in her bedroom or you know, Ac in his study 347 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: in the library downstairs, and of course you would expect 348 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: that to happen. But what I find is one of 349 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: the more intriguing ideas is when people go into the 350 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: room that they believe was John Witter's room, or at 351 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: least maybe the room where he committed suicide, or where 352 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: his spirit went after he committed suicide, I should say, 353 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: they feel like that room has this overwhelming heaviness. So 354 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: while you might feel welcomed in the rest of the house, 355 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: that's a room that is very foreboding, and so it 356 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: actually takes a certain reserve and a person to be 357 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: able to go in there and deal with that. And 358 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: I've been in lots of rooms where tragedies have happened. 359 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: I've laid in the spot where Abby Borden's body was 360 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,120 Speaker 1: found and all those kind of things, and I've never 361 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: felt the kind of heaviness that you feel in the 362 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: room that has associated with John Witters. And I think 363 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: that's because the guilt that he feels is still palpable 364 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: all this time later, Yeah, I can imagine like even 365 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: if his kind of spirit is not there, like what 366 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: he went through obviously, like he was tremendous for him. 367 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: And I do like I feel like sometimes those emotional 368 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: scars just kind of cause activity, or cause hauntings, or 369 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: you can feel them, you know, years and years later. 370 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: Still now when it comes to John Witters, besides that 371 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 1: kind of heaviness, what sort of activity do you think 372 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: would be associated with him in the location? Yeah. A 373 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: lot of people, of course, will point to the story 374 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: of seeing a light in the window of that room, 375 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: and which I can tell you having verified having been 376 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: in that room. There wasn't electricity being run into that 377 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: room at least of the time that I was investigating there. 378 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: You know, in the twenty twelve thirteen era, there was 379 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: no electricity running to that room. So for a light 380 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: to be seen in the window from there with nobody 381 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: else in the building, I would think that it has 382 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 1: to be something that is at least of interest, if 383 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: not totally paranormal, and that I think is a sign 384 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 1: to me that he's still trying to show that he's 385 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: a good person. That's to me, that's what that light 386 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: means it's like, please don't don't judge me on what 387 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: happened in the in the final days of my life. 388 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: Please judge me on my entire life overall. And I 389 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: feel so bad about that because nobody blames John Witters 390 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: for what happened except John Witters. Yeah. I mean, if 391 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,719 Speaker 1: there was ever a reason for someone to haunt a 392 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: place or to stay behind like he has it, you know, 393 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: there's always that kind of unfinished business, that feeling of guilt, 394 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: like he is kind of the text book ghost for 395 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: lack of a better term. But I know you've had 396 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: personally some pretty profound experiences there, maybe one of your 397 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: most profound experiences there. Do you want to elaborate on that? Absolutely? Well. 398 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, we went there. I'll be 399 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: you know, totally upfront. We went for an event on 400 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: a Saturday, So this is this is a little bit 401 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: different than the person who might be going in there 402 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: for the average paranormal investigation. As you know, you know, 403 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: things can happen and you don't always have full control 404 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: of the situation. So we know that we're going to 405 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: get in there with about I think there was like 406 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: fifty or sixty people that were coming to this event, 407 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: but the night before, we had all got into town 408 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: the night earlier, and we all met up for dinner, 409 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: those of us who are like the guests and the 410 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: people who are running it and everything, and Josh Mantello 411 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: says to us, all, would you like to go and 412 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: check out the house tonight before there's a big group 413 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: there and you can actually do a real investigation. And 414 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 1: if there was maybe a dozen fifteen people sitting around 415 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: the table, half of them said, now we're just going 416 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: to go back to the hotel. And I couldn't believe it, Like, 417 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: what do you mean, You've got the hote mansion to yourself? 418 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: This is perfect. So some of us all went over there, 419 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: and the building lit up for us and like I've 420 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: never seen in terms of activity, including as we're getting 421 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: this walking tour from from Josh and Nick Mantello, we're 422 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,639 Speaker 1: in Witner's room, and as they're talking and telling the 423 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 1: story of what people have experienced there, a voice came 424 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: from the closet, this mumbled, garbled kind of like voice 425 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,159 Speaker 1: that everybody could hear, and some of the folks that 426 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 1: were with us, of course, immediately ran over to the 427 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: closet to see what was going on. Is there a 428 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,680 Speaker 1: tape recorder? Is Josh playing a trick on us? Because 429 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, we we're the new people here. I could 430 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: see them pull something on us. And when we opened 431 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: up the closet, there's nothing in there, and Josh and 432 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: Nick are saying, no, no, we would never do something 433 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: like that, and we're trying to figure out what the 434 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: source of this could be and we can't find anything. 435 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 1: So we finish off the tour and we get to 436 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: see the entire mansion inside and out, even the parts 437 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: that people don't normally go into. And then we're all 438 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: in the library downstairs kind of hanging out, and I 439 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: heard a noise come from the very top floor, the 440 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: third floor, and I walked over to the grand staircase, 441 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: and everybody that's in the house is all downstairs. Nobody 442 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,479 Speaker 1: could have gotten into the house. Well, I'm standing at 443 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: the bottom of the staircase and I just yelled up 444 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 1: the stairs, is there anybody up there? And a female 445 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: voice says from the very top no, and then everybody 446 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: kind of laughed. But really that just proved to us 447 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: that there was somebody else there that you know, we 448 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: couldn't see. That is wild. So it sounds like she 449 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: did not want you there. If it was Mary, I 450 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: could kind of understand that. Yeah, you know, then, you know, 451 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: why would you want these people poking around talking about 452 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: what happened to you all the time. But yeah, you 453 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: consider how many people must have gone through that building. 454 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: How many you know, obviously with the Freemasons, it is 455 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: a fraternal organization. It is a male oriented organization, but 456 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: there are women associated with that. They have the you know, 457 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 1: anybody that ever has been a rainbow girl or any 458 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: of that, those things are all associated with the Mason. 459 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: So there would have been women in the building, So 460 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: it could have been anyone, but I'd like to think 461 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: that it was kind of married, just saying hey, guys, 462 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm done for tonight. You come back tomorrow. Sometimes I 463 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: feel like when we're investigating these poor people become defined 464 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 1: by their end. You know, It's almost like the lives 465 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: that they led before this happened, or the memories that 466 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: they made in these these buildings, all of that becomes 467 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: null and void. And that's why I try to encourage 468 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: investigators to not focus so much on the end, but 469 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: focus on the part, the living part. You could, because 470 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: none of us want to be thought of you as 471 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: this poor tragic family that this terrible thing happened to. 472 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: There's so many other facets of their lives that were 473 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,679 Speaker 1: much more important to them, I'm sure. And so maybe 474 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: over time they start getting frustrated when people come in 475 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: just kind of keep rehashing what happened to the family. Yeah, 476 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: And when you think about it, I mean, every investigator 477 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: that comes in, it's their first interaction with with say 478 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: Mary Hopton, but for Mary Hopton it's her ten thousandth 479 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: investor you investigation that she's been part of, So for 480 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,959 Speaker 1: her to have to keep asking answering that question all 481 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: the time, you know, tell us about the car crash, Mary, 482 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: tell us what was going through your mind when the 483 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: car crash? Mary? Like that is it's got to be 484 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: not only you know, tragic to have to relive that, 485 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: but it's also going to get kind of monotonous as well. Absolutely, 486 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: And so I mean I think that's actually a very 487 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: valuable lesson for investigators or people looking to investigate, is 488 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: you know, don't just study what happened, like how what 489 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: the end result was, but study like the entire life 490 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: of someone that you are trying to reach out to 491 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: because Ozar, most people aren't walking in with that knowledge. 492 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: I mean that can be the difference between them interacting 493 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: with you or not, you know, especially in the case 494 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: of the Hotans, they do have such interesting history associated 495 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: with them besides this terrible car crash, right, and when 496 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: you think about the fact that that house was built 497 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: basically on the sweat that Acy Holton had put in 498 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: his entire life to amass that fortune that he did, 499 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, that was his way of kind of saying, hey, 500 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: I've made it. And you know, when you've got guests 501 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: coming into your home, the home that you're so proud of, 502 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: don't you think you would want to talk about that 503 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: and show that off and talk about, you know, how 504 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: you were able to do this and where you picked 505 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: out this from and all that, rather than saying, you know, 506 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: all right, let's talk about the car crash again. So 507 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: I like to poke around, especially a place like that, 508 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: there's so many twists and turns you're walking around, you know, 509 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: recording EVPs. You can say, well, tell me about this room, Macy, 510 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: why did you decide to design it this way? Or 511 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: who who made the decision to go with that molding 512 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,560 Speaker 1: and you'll probably find that you'll get more reaction that way. 513 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: You know, everybody's favorite subject to talk about as themselves 514 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: and the choices that they've made. So I'd much rather 515 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: talk about that than the way that I died. Have 516 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: you heard the theory that some of the stones there 517 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: might be leading to some of the hauntings because they 518 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: came from, like I think it's the Hoosic Tunnel nearby. 519 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:09,880 Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Do you think that's 520 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: a possibility. I think so, and I think that that, 521 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: you know, that's something that living in the Bridgewater Triangle, 522 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: we see that in a lot of the buildings that 523 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: are haunted here is you know, we'll say to people, well, 524 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: what's the foundation of your home. They'll say, well, it's fieldstone, 525 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,439 Speaker 1: or it's granite, or it's you know, so something like that, 526 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,239 Speaker 1: and you say, okay, well let's trace where it might 527 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: have come from. You find out it came from the 528 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: quarry that's out in the Freetown State Forests. So right 529 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: at the heart of the Bridgewater Triangle, they're they're picking 530 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: up the materials to build their homes out of it. 531 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: And I think the same thing can happen out there 532 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: as well, if they're taking that, you know, building that 533 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 1: tunnel and blasting away stone, and they've got to do 534 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: something with that stone, Let's put it into these nice 535 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: ornate homes out here. That probably won't cause any problems. 536 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: And I do think that it's probably fair to say 537 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: that people might not have known at the time that 538 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: that tunnel had those hauntings associated with it, and I 539 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: think it's something that predates there being the tunnel there, 540 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's that land there, So they 541 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: probably didn't know any better when they did it, but 542 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure that some homes regret it now. Yeah, you know, 543 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: years ago, we investigated a residence that was built with lumber. Basically, 544 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: these people have been forcibly moved so that they could 545 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: flood the town with a dam, and so a lot 546 00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: of the people kind of just took their houses down 547 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: with the idea they would rebuild elsewhere, and then a 548 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: lot of them did not, and so this house was 549 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: constructed of other people's homes that had been moved because 550 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: of this dam, and a lot of the activity was 551 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: because of that. And so yeah, I think building materials, 552 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: you don't think about it, but they can harbor something. 553 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: What I also found interesting about the way that it 554 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: was built is you've got this beautiful, ornate mansion that 555 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: was constructed the way that the Hotans wanted it to be, 556 00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: and then you have the Freemasons when they took it 557 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: over or they start constructing the Masonic lodge within the 558 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: middle of it, which when you think about it, it's 559 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: an odd blueprint, it's an odd floor plan to have 560 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: it built this way. And now you're inserting everything that 561 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: is associated with the Freemasons into the heart of this building. 562 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: So you've got all of all the ceremony, all the 563 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 1: things that go on now being amplified and recorded by 564 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: these materials that are surrounding it completely. People always come 565 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,080 Speaker 1: to us thinking that, you know, buildings and had the 566 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: Freemasons in them at some point are haunted because you know, 567 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: they called on spirits or whatever it is. And I 568 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: actually think it has more to do with just the 569 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: ritual aspect of it and the emotions kind of put 570 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: into what they were doing. You know, it's kind of 571 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: the same idea anywhere where there's there's rituals happening, like 572 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: there is this kind of you know, there's this major 573 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: intention put into those and a lot of them are 574 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,400 Speaker 1: the same thing over and over and over again. I 575 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: kind of forgot that aspect of like what an interesting 576 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,959 Speaker 1: haunt it is that you have obviously this family that 577 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: was there and everything they went through, and then on 578 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: top of that, the Freemasons made it a lodge, and 579 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: then on top of that, you've got these building materials 580 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,400 Speaker 1: from this local tunnel that's supposedly super haunted, and it's 581 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: just got so many facets to it. It's really interesting. 582 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: And I have a little bit of a theory as 583 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: to why the Freemasons might draw out more of the 584 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: hotan activity as well, and why Free Masonic lodges have 585 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: these ghosts associated with them. It's because Freemasons, you know, 586 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: the belief and a higher power is the key central 587 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: point of what they believe in, but they don't need 588 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: to have all the religious dogma associated with it. So 589 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: when somebody goes in to investigate a haunted location, they've 590 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: got to kind of check their own personal religious beliefs 591 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: at the door, because some religions tell you that you 592 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: shouldn't be talking to spirits, you shouldn't believe in spirits, 593 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: that spirits are actually the devil trying to manipulate you. 594 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 1: All these different belief systems that come into it can 595 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: screw with the interaction a little bit. When you're dealing 596 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: with freemasons who just say, listen, we don't care how 597 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: you believe, as long as you leave, as long as 598 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: you believe in something greater than yourself. I think that 599 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: makes it a lot easier for this activity to come through. Yeah, 600 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought of it that way before. That's 601 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: really interesting. Now, did you have any other experiences there 602 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: while you were visiting, Well, when you were talking about 603 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,720 Speaker 1: the way that you make these connections with the spirits there, 604 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: that is the place. The Hote Mansion is the place 605 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: that actually changed me as an investigator, because I was 606 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: somebody who was kind of impatient on investigations. I would 607 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: go in guns blazing, you know, and say, come on, ghost, 608 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: come out, show us who killed you? How'd you die? 609 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: Wouldn't you die? How long you've been here? Like I'm 610 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: I just want my questions answered and I want to 611 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: kind of move on. And it was the Hote Mansion that, 612 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: you know, for lack of a better term, taught me 613 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: that ghosts are people too, right. It was in the 614 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: lodge itself, there's a section in the back where they 615 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 1: used to have secret ceremonies, and then over that section 616 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 1: there was another kind of secret area and we were 617 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: investigating in there. We were getting all kinds of noises, 618 00:32:57,840 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: and you know, if we did Knox, we would get 619 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: Knox in response. So if we did the old shaven 620 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: a haircut, we'd get the two bits back. And all 621 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 1: the stuff was happening. We stood there and started to 622 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: watch shadow figures emerge and start walking down the hallway, 623 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: to the point where at one point we're watching a 624 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: procession of them walk right in front of our eyes 625 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: down the hallway, And that alone was kind of mind 626 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: blowing because that was the most intense shadow activity i'd 627 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: had to that point. But a little bit later on 628 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: in the evening, there was one shadow way down at 629 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 1: the end of the hall by itself, and we were 630 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: kind of calling him down, and over the course of 631 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: a good amount of time, we finally got him to 632 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: come down and stand in front of us. So we're 633 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: seeing this shadow person standing right before our eyes. There 634 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: was myself and about four other people, and I held 635 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 1: my hand out and this shadow person actually grabbed my hand, 636 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: wrapped its hand around my hand and began pumping my 637 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: arm up and down in a handshake motion. So I 638 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: shook hands with the shadow person. That is intense. It 639 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 1: really was the most intense thing that's ever happened to 640 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: me in an investigation because I just started crying. I 641 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: couldn't help it, Like the tears just started coming out 642 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: of my eyes because I realized, like all of this 643 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: stuff that I've been chasing around, I knew that it 644 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: was real. I knew the activity was real, but I 645 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: didn't realize the humanity behind it. And I went downstairs 646 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: and everybody could tell something had happened to me, and 647 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: I had to make the decision do I tell people 648 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: about what happened to me because they're not going to 649 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 1: believe me. And this is to this point, I'd done 650 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of events, but I'd never been the person 651 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: to have the personal experience. I didn't want to be 652 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: because I knew people would think I was just making 653 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: it up because I want to sell tickets to the 654 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: next event. I was really nervous about saying anything. And 655 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: I talked with a friend of ours, Frank Grace, the photographer, 656 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: and he said, no, dude, you've got to tell people. 657 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 1: If it affected you that much, and when I told everybody, 658 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, and actually everybody did believe me and was 659 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: very supportive, but it changed who I was as a 660 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 1: person and as an investigator going forward. I love that experience. 661 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: That's insane, and I wish that would happen to me, 662 00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: like I would love nothing more that they're just very 663 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,720 Speaker 1: cordially greet a ghost like would like a living person 664 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: in front of you, like a handshake and a hello, like. 665 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: I think that is amazing, and I think it also 666 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: shows the power of the personal experience. I think a 667 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: lot of us start doing this to collect evidence and 668 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: we want to, you know, prove that ghosts exist, or 669 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: we want to have something crazy happen, and then at 670 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 1: some point, like your equipment and collecting you know, evidence, 671 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: I say with air quotes, becomes so much less important 672 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: than these kind of personal experiences that solidify your theories 673 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 1: and your thoughts and again bring humanity to your experiences 674 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: and to these these spirits. And I think it makes 675 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: the more passionate type investigators like once you make that shift, 676 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: and so it sounds like that was that moment for you, 677 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: oh for sure, And it put a thought into my 678 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,479 Speaker 1: head that I'm sure that you've had in your head 679 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: many times and your investigations too, where I thought to myself, 680 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: maybe I should stop doing this and just leave them alone. 681 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:04,280 Speaker 1: But then, you know, you realize that they are reaching 682 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,160 Speaker 1: out to you because they do have something to say, 683 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: and that you can be the conduit for that. You know, 684 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: obviously there are some spirits in some places that that 685 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: don't want to interact and so they just choose not to. 686 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: But um, I realized there that you know, to do 687 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,839 Speaker 1: this now going forward. I was that person. I got 688 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: into this with that idea, I'm going to be the 689 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,840 Speaker 1: person that's going to catch the evidence it's going to 690 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: prove to the world that goes too real. And then 691 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: that that was the night that made me realize that, 692 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's not about that. It's about bringing people 693 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,360 Speaker 1: to where they can have a one on one experience 694 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,960 Speaker 1: to either you know, help them believe something they weren't 695 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 1: open to before, or to solidify that belief that they 696 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,879 Speaker 1: always had but needed the proof. Right, Yeah, exactly. I mean, 697 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 1: I I love that, and you know it's it is 698 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, to your point of kind of thinking for 699 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: a moment, should we leave them alone? You know, you 700 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: have to kind of instill like free will and free 701 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: thought on them, Like they will tell you if they 702 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: want you to leave them alone, but if they would 703 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: like to interact with you, they will. It's just like 704 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: any living person standing right in front of you, and 705 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: how many people do ignore them, you know, And that's 706 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 1: why there's people like us who do at least try 707 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: to reach out and in your case, actually shake their hand. Yeah, 708 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: And what I've found to be kind of the lasting 709 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: thing that stuck with me is that feeling of there 710 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: was no difference between me and whatever the thing was 711 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: that was shaking my hand. So you know, in some cases, 712 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,919 Speaker 1: you look at these stories that you hear and people 713 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: will tell you, well, I saw their shadow figure and 714 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: it's I smelled sulfur, so it must have been a 715 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: demon or you know, you hear all these characterizations that 716 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: people have. That experience gave me enough of an up 717 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: close experience that I can say that I just I 718 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: feel comfortable around these entities that they really are just 719 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,959 Speaker 1: another person and I don't need to start to worry 720 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 1: about all these you know, maybe maybe some of these 721 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,000 Speaker 1: manifestations are other things, but from that point on, I 722 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: always kind of looked at everything as being you know, 723 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: just like me, and thinking about it that way has 724 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: changed the way that I asked the questions. It's the 725 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: way that I try to get interaction, and it's made 726 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: me feel better when I leave each location that I hopefully, 727 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: at the very least gave them some entertainment for the night. 728 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: Yeah seriously, Well, I'm sure you did, and I love that. 729 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: So now, on that note, tell us where people can 730 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: find you. What is Tim Wiseberg up to these days? Oh, 731 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm always talking about the paranormal somewhere or other. But 732 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,959 Speaker 1: my home base is the Spooky South Coast radio show 733 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: and podcast, which you can get anywhere podcasts are found. 734 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: I have my own network, the midnight FM network Midnight 735 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: dot FM, where I do a show on Friday nights 736 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,439 Speaker 1: called Midnight Society. And basically, you know, for me, it's 737 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: all about any opportunity I can have to talk about 738 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: this stuff. So sometimes I might work behind the scenes 739 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: on things, sometimes I might be in front of the 740 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,720 Speaker 1: camera on some things, but I you know, I'm always 741 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: looking for a way to make these stories kind of 742 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: more palatable for people, and to make it so that 743 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 1: they realize that when they do have something strange happened 744 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,720 Speaker 1: to them. It's okay, it's the paranormals actually kind of normal. Yeah, well, 745 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: I thank you so much for coming on the show. 746 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,280 Speaker 1: It's great to talk to you. And yeah, as always, 747 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: I super appreciate you Tim, you are an awesome person, 748 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,799 Speaker 1: and everyone out there, I highly recommend you seek him 749 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: out if you are not familiar with him already. Like 750 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: I said, I was a Tim fan well before I 751 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: was ever on television. I was listening to Spooky South 752 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,879 Speaker 1: Coast way back in the day in California. So it's 753 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: definitely well worth the seeking out of mister Weisberg. So 754 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: thank you, sir. I really appreciate you taking the time. Well, 755 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: thank you, and thank you for all your support over 756 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: the years. Potent Mansion has become that empty mansion in 757 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: the neighborhood that kids ride their bicycles by, quickly wondering 758 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: what could be lurking inside. It's the stuff of legends 759 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: and lore and most assuredly haunted. But I think good 760 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,919 Speaker 1: stands as a reminder of something else, a lesson each 761 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,239 Speaker 1: of us could take stock in the realization that you 762 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: can be on top of the world, you can have 763 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: every part of your beautiful life, meticulously planned and accounted for, 764 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: but one moment can derail it all horribly. Never forget that. 765 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: Always live life to its fullest, because you never know 766 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: when a dark hour may be lurking ahead. I'm Amy 767 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: Bruney and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road is hosted 768 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 1: and written by me Amy Bruney, with additional research by 769 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: Taylor Haggerdorn and Cassandra day Alba. This show is edited 770 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: and produced by Rima el Kali, with supervising producer Josh 771 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 1: Thane and executive producers Aaron Manky, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. 772 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,520 Speaker 1: Haunted Road is a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm and 773 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,759 Speaker 1: Mile from Aaron Manke. Learn more about this show over 774 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: at Grimm Andmild dot com, and for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 775 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 776 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.