1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: Is it possible to become happier? What does the science 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: say about this? How much of your happiness is your genetics? 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: And what does any of this have to do with 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: social connection or comparison to other people, or your balance 5 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: of optimism versus pessimism, And why it would be useful 6 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: to keep a journal of your life. Welcome to Intercosmos 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: with me David Eagleman. I'm a neuroscientist and author at 8 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: Stanford and in these episodes we sail deeply into our 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: three pound universe to uncover some of the most surprising 10 00:00:42,680 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: aspects of our lives. Today's episdis is about what's known 11 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: about happiness from a scientific point of view. Everyone since 12 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 1: time immemorial has asked themselves what is going to make 13 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: me happy? And they've often speculated what can I tell 14 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: other people about what's going to make them happy? But 15 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: in a sense, I view this the same way that 16 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: people once approached disease. They said, Hey, maybe if I 17 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: sprinkle salt over my shoulder, or boil some bones, or 18 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: eat a lizard's tail, that's going to work. There were 19 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: endless theories and rituals and folk beliefs, some of which 20 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: were passed down for generations. Many of these things were 21 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,920 Speaker 1: totally made up, but they persisted because there wasn't a 22 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: better option. The world of disease changed with the arrival 23 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: of the scientific method. With observation and experimentation and replication, 24 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: the community slowly was able to replace guesswork and superstition 25 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: with reproducible knowledge. We stopped tossing salt and started testing antibiotics. 26 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: We stopped blaming spirits and started understanding microbes, and as 27 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: a result, we eradicated smallpox and polio. We developed fixes 28 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: for fever and diarrhea and diabetes. And if you ever 29 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: feel skepticism about our progress, just note that we have 30 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: added decades to the average human life. So the key 31 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: question I want to ask today is can we bring 32 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: that same level of rigor to the question of happiness. 33 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: Now that might sound strange because happiness seems so personal, 34 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: it's so subjective. Is it really something you can study 35 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: in a lab? Do we really understand what it is 36 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 1: we're chasing? Happiness? It turns out is a remarkably slippery concept. 37 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: You ask three people to define it, you're going to 38 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: get four answers. Is it pleasure contentment? 39 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: Meaning? 40 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: Is it a spike of joy or a slow and 41 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: steady hum of well being. We're probably talking about all 42 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: these things. And I'll note that even the ancient Greeks 43 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:13,399 Speaker 1: made distinctions. They distinguished between the pursuit of pleasure, which 44 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: they called hedonia, and a life of meaning and virtue, 45 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: which they called you'd ammonia. And in modern psychology we 46 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: have all kinds of similar distinctions, asking whether happiness is 47 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 1: more about fleeting moods or lasting satisfaction. But here's the thing. 48 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: Even once we settle on definitions, we are not always 49 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: so good at predicting what will make us happy. The 50 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: general lesson from psychology is that people make systematic errors 51 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: in forecasting their own happiness. We think that a new 52 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: car will do it, or a bigger house, or finally 53 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: getting that promotion, And when those things happen, we do 54 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: feel a little jolt of joy, but it doesn't last 55 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: apt we return to our baseline. Psychologists call this the 56 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: hedonic treadmill. You keep running, chasing the next thing, but 57 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: you never really get ahead. And by the way, even 58 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: our memories deceive us. We misremember what made us happy 59 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: in the past, and we make plans for the future 60 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 1: based on those flawed recollections. We compare ourselves to others constantly. 61 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: We overvalue the extraordinary and overlook the ordinary. We confuse 62 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: excitement with fulfillment. So what does this all mean. It 63 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: means our internal compass is often misaligned, and yet there's hope. 64 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: And this is because over the past decades, researchers have 65 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: begun to untangle the mystery of happiness by using tools 66 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: like longitudinal studies, which follow people across decades or even 67 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: across their entire lives. Other studies use brain imaging to 68 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: map emotional states, or behavioral experiments that track the choices 69 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: people make and then how they feel about it later, 70 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: or cross cultural research that looks at how different societies 71 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: define and pursue joy. What emerges from this growing body 72 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: of work is a more nuanced, more evidence based understanding 73 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: of what makes life feel worthwhile and good. And the 74 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: answers provide something useful, a map. It's not a guarantee, 75 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: it's not a formula, but it's a way to navigate 76 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: toward a deeper, more lasting sense of well being. So 77 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: today we're going to explore that map. We'll talk about 78 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: what practices actually seem to make a difference. Based not 79 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 1: on wishful thinking, about on data to guide us through 80 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: this territory. I called up my friend and colleague, Bruce Hood. 81 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: He's an experimental psychologist and philosopher at the University of 82 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: Bristol in England, and he recently wrote a book called 83 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: The Science of Happiness. Together, we're going to try to 84 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: get a clearer view of what the science tells us, 85 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: what works, what doesn't, and how we can apply these 86 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: findings in our own lives. Here's my interview with Bruce. So, Bruce, 87 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: I know at the back of your office there's a 88 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 1: junior high playground and you're always hearing the laughter and 89 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: the squealing of children. So what did that make you wonder? 90 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 3: Well, in my day job, I see a lot of 91 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 3: my students and I'm their tutor, and I've just come 92 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 3: out of a tutoring session where they were really quite 93 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: miserable and unhappy and really worried, and I just heard 94 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 3: this laughter coming from the playground. I thought, what goes wrong? 95 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 3: Where are we going wrong? 96 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: Well? 97 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: How how do they ended this position at the end 98 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 3: of the education system where they're so preoccupied with their 99 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 3: performance and they've got mental health issues? And I kind 100 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: of reached the end of my tether to some extent, 101 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: I wanted to try and do something. 102 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: So you thought, look, kids are happy, young adults are 103 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: not so happy, and so you started looking into the 104 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: science of happiness. And what did you find. 105 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: Well, we had reached a bit of a crisis point 106 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 3: at Bristol University, and I felt I needed to do something. 107 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 3: And I looked around and discover that a former student 108 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 3: of mind, Laurie Santos, who had I taught as an 109 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: undergraduate when I was at Harvard, had also encountered a 110 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 3: problem at Yale, and she put on a course that 111 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 3: had been remarkably successful. So this really inspired me to 112 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: try and do a version of it myself. So I 113 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: contacted Laurie and her typical generous nature, She shared all 114 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 3: her notes, and I put together a version of her course, 115 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 3: and I call it the Science of Happiness. I think 116 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: was called Psychology and the Good Life. And I focused 117 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: a little bit more on critical thinking, my own spin 118 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 3: on stuff. And I just ran it as a pilot 119 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 3: to see if anyone would turn up to it. It 120 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 3: wasn't credit bearing, it wasn't official course. It was just 121 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 3: here's a lunchtime seminar series I'm running for ten weeks 122 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 3: and I was price six hundred people turned up, even 123 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 3: though they weren't getting credit for it. So this told 124 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: me that this was something that was in demand, and 125 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 3: the universes were very pleased with this, so they gave 126 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 3: me the green light to go ahead and create a 127 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: course which was credit bearing, and we launched it the 128 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: following year and we've been doing it every year with 129 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: about six hundred students enrolling. And what makes it, I 130 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 3: think unique, is that to me, it's a large experiment 131 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 3: because we actually get the students to fill in their 132 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 3: own sort of levels of happiness and various psychometric tests, 133 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 3: and every year we've run the course, we find a 134 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 3: significant improvement of about fifteen percent on all these measures. 135 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 3: So it's not just an educational course because they have 136 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 3: to actually do things and we discover that actually it 137 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 3: seems to make some impact. 138 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: So before we get into the framework of the science 139 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: of happiness, I want to ask you a few rapid questions. First, 140 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: do you think that students are changing from let's say 141 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: when you first started teaching. 142 00:08:58,600 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 2: Yes and No? 143 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,319 Speaker 3: My first paper done back in nineteen eighty six. I 144 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 3: think it came out the full year eighty seven was 145 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 3: on the transition to university, and I was already interested 146 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 3: in the fact that students, way back when I was 147 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 3: an undergrad were experiencing homesickness and this sort of temporary 148 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 3: period of uncertainty. So I think that's actually a common 149 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 3: experience for all students when they leave the you know, 150 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 3: the confines and the familiarity of their home environment, and 151 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 3: they go to in new, new campus, but very soon 152 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 3: they get used to it and they kind of adapt 153 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 3: to that. I think the difference now is that students 154 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 3: are already coming to university with mental health issues, and 155 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 3: I think the nature of discussing these things that's normalized 156 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: a lot more now, and it seems to be more pervasive. 157 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 3: It certainly seems to feature as an issue that students 158 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 3: want to talk about. So I think that I don't 159 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 3: think there's any fundamental difference in the human mind, if 160 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 3: you like, but the way that we discuss and talk 161 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 3: about these things and the way it impacts on students, 162 00:09:58,520 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 3: I think has changed. 163 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 1: How much of a person's happiness comes down to the 164 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: genes that they inherit. 165 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: Actually we do have a pretty good idea about that, 166 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 3: and that comes from behavior genetic studies where they compare 167 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 3: identical and non identical twins, and it's roughly the same 168 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 3: as intelligence around about heritability is about forty to fifty percent. 169 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 3: So yes, some people are very much like their parents 170 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 3: and some are very unlike their parents. But on average, 171 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 3: if you look across a big population, that heritability is 172 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 3: around about forty to fifty percent. 173 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: And if I can ask you a personal question, Bruce, 174 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: tell us about your childhood, as I understand that your 175 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: father wasn't particularly happy and well adjusted and you are. 176 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I came from well I'm laughing about it now 177 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 3: because I can look back with some degree of wisdom, 178 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 3: but at the time it was a very impoverished childhood, 179 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 3: tenerant if we moved from household to hustle. We never 180 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 3: had any money, and he was a very abusive alcoholic. Yeah, 181 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 3: it was a painful childhood, but you know, I think 182 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 3: I learned to cope, and certainly this course has helped 183 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 3: a lot for me. What I've learned on this past 184 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 3: has actually changed my outlook. I used to be very, 185 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,160 Speaker 3: very driven and maybe too driven, and that to the 186 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 3: exclusion of people around me. Now I'm a lot more 187 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 3: mindful and thoughtful about you know, what I'm doing, and 188 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 3: that might just be age and wisdom, but I also 189 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: think that there is there are things that you can 190 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 3: do to change your life for the better. So I've 191 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 3: you know, I used to be skeptical about all this stuff. 192 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 3: I felt it was very soft psychology and you know, 193 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 3: a little bit wishy washy. And now I'm much more 194 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,959 Speaker 3: of a convert to it. That and if it does 195 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 3: make the students better, then you know, whether or not 196 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 3: we can argue about the mechanisms. I still think it's 197 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 3: a valid endeavor to try and alleviate some of this 198 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 3: problem that seems to be so pervasive. 199 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: Great, so in your book, you boil this down to 200 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: seven lessons. Well, I call. 201 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: Them lessons to capture the nature that a book that 202 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 3: was originated from a course, and so it felt like 203 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 3: an educational process. But yeah, and they all actually bleed 204 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 3: into each other, and it says they're all interrelated. But 205 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 3: there is a fundamental premise throughout the book that it's 206 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 3: happiness is about becoming less self centered and that's the 207 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 3: kind of underlying theme. 208 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: Great, so let's dive into the seven lessons. I think 209 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: it's a good way to structure. This so less than 210 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: one you call alter your ego. So tell us about that. 211 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,679 Speaker 3: Well, this comes from my training as a developmental psychologist 212 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 3: and from the work the works of Jean Piage and others. 213 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 3: And what Page noted is that children are very egocentric. 214 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 3: And what he meant by that is that they view 215 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 3: the world from their own perspective, from themselves. Literally, they 216 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: think the world is an extension of their sensory systems, 217 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 3: so that if they're not looking at something, it. 218 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: Ceases to exist. So they really do believe. 219 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 3: We have a term in philosophy called salism that the 220 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 3: world is literally an extension of your mind. They have 221 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 3: to learn to differentiate themselves from that physical world and 222 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 3: understand that objects have their own kind of identity and 223 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: permanence and uniqueness. And this is captured in a lot 224 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 3: of his demonstrations that should behave as if objects cease 225 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 3: to exist when they're not being looked at, or they're 226 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 3: a product of the child's actions. Now that's happening in infancy. 227 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 3: Over time, they start to learn that there is a 228 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 3: physical world that is separate to them, and they start 229 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 3: to realize that other children have different thoughts, but they 230 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 3: still think of themselves very egocentrically. So initially, for example, 231 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 3: they think that other people understand things the way they do, 232 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,679 Speaker 3: They see the way the world they do, and they 233 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 3: lack what's called a theory of mind in the sense 234 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 3: that they don't necessarily understand that others can have completely 235 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 3: different opinions or completely different. 236 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: Thoughts to their own. 237 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,319 Speaker 3: But around about three or four years of age, they 238 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: start to learn to become less egocentric and more what 239 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 3: I call alocentric, which means other focused. It's not that 240 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 3: children don't interact with others, but that interaction is very 241 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 3: much uni direction or one direction when they're very very young. 242 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 3: But if you want to become a functioning member of 243 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 3: society as a child, and this is what childhoods are for, 244 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:10,119 Speaker 3: it's socialization. They've got to learn to become cooperative, communicate, integrate. 245 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 3: So when we tell ch'am to behave, we're trying to 246 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 3: teach them the rules of socialization in order to be 247 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 3: accepted by the rest of the tribe, as it were. 248 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 3: So we start off with a very ecocentric perspective, and 249 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 3: we've become more other focuses we get older. But like 250 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 3: many aspects of the human mind. We never entirely abandoned 251 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: these kind of primitive ways of thinking, and I think consciousness, 252 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 3: for example, is a very egocentric experience. It's from the 253 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 3: first person perspective. We don't instantly take a theory in mind, 254 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 3: We don't instantly and for other people's thoughts and purses, unless, 255 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 3: for example, they behave in a way that we make 256 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 3: questions why they've done it, and we might then try 257 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 3: and figure out what's on their mind. But in general, 258 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 3: we're on autopilot. We're kind of seeing everything from the 259 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 3: first person perspective, and that's okay. But when it comes 260 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: to happiness, this is where I think it can be 261 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 3: a problem because left to our own devices, we have 262 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 3: a tendency to turn in on our ourselves, to ruminate, 263 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 3: to consider our perspectives, and we can blow things up 264 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 3: of proportion. Whereas if you start to see yourself as 265 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 3: more interconnected or alocentric, first of all, you're more contributing 266 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: member of society, but also you can start to get 267 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 3: a sense that other people have things going in their 268 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 3: lives which actually may be more paramount or more important 269 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 3: to them, or worse. And then once you understand that 270 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 3: actually we're all interconnected and other people have things going 271 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 3: on their lives. It starts to put your own things 272 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 3: into perspective. So I think there's been a language or 273 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 3: focus on self and identity, politics and all about me, 274 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 3: me me for the past ten years. I think we've 275 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 3: been hearing that, and I'm just sort of saying, maybe 276 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 3: that's the wrong way to think about it. Maybe focusing 277 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 3: on yourself is directing your energies in the wrong way. 278 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 3: I think we should try and ritualize of others. And 279 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 3: this comes from younemonia, which is an ancient concept from Aristotle. 280 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: Unpack you. 281 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 3: Aemonia for us, Pneumonia is the technical term for flourishing, 282 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 3: which means that rather than directing your effort to make 283 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 3: yourself happy, what you should be trying to do is 284 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 3: enrigin the lives of other people around you. So it's 285 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 3: a more altruistic, gregarious, other focused way of energy. What 286 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: Aristotle said to it. You know, anyone can be self centered. 287 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 3: Animals are self centered and they can seek gratification. But humans, 288 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 3: we have moral grounds, we have moral perspectives. We can 289 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 3: put our efforts into making other people's lives better. Altruism 290 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 3: and so on. And if you do that, that will 291 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 3: make society better and you will benefit from that indirectly. 292 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 3: So he argued that we shouldn't be focusing our energies 293 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: on ourselves, but rather trying to improve the lives of others. 294 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the things you argue, if I understood 295 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: this correctly, is you're saying what you really want to 296 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: hit is a balance between egocentric and alocentric. Yeah. 297 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Because obviously, if you're so selfless, then human 298 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 3: nature is that people will take advantage, so you need 299 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 3: to kind of get the balance correct. The other thing 300 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 3: about being self less is if you're so empathic, then 301 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 3: there is a danger that you can kind of become 302 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 3: a super EmPATH or take on all the suffering and 303 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 3: pain of others around you, which means you can't function either. 304 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 3: So it's really trying to get things into perspective and 305 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 3: get the balance right. If you're too allocentric or too 306 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 3: other focus, you're probably not going to look after yourself well. 307 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 3: If you're too selfish, you're going to be rejected, possibly 308 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 3: and ostracized. So it's about becoming what we evolve to be, 309 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 3: which is a socialized, integrated animal. 310 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: So let's go to the second lesson, which is avoid isolation. 311 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: Tell us about that. 312 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 3: Well, that's the flip side of being ostracized. So yes, 313 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 3: we're a social animal, and the way we've evolved is 314 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: through our capacity for what I call well, I didn't 315 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 3: coin the term. Mike Thomas elo coined it. 316 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 2: It's ratcheting, cultural ratcheting. 317 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 3: In other words, we have communication and we cooperate, and 318 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 3: the information that we learn in one generation we pass 319 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 3: on to the next. And this is a way we've 320 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 3: been able to accumulate and build sequentially on the knowledge base, 321 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 3: which is allowed technology to rise exponentially. So yeah, that 322 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 3: all comes from the fact that we evolve such sort 323 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 3: of a social life. If you think about it, we 324 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 3: spend the largest proportion in childhood of any species. You know, 325 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 3: it could be to the teenage years. Some adults who 326 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 3: argue that they've still got kids in their twenties. It's 327 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 3: still at home as children. But if you look at 328 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,760 Speaker 3: it in terms of our life expectancy, a large proportion 329 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 3: of that is spent in periods of being dependent on others. 330 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 3: So those long childhoods come at a cost, and that's 331 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 3: why we have all the emotions of being included, all 332 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 3: the joys and the pains. 333 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 2: And sorrows and so forth. 334 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 3: The flip side of it is if you're ostracized, that 335 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,919 Speaker 3: is really detrimental to not only your mental health but 336 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 3: your physical health. So we know, for example, loneliness, chronic 337 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 3: loneliness has a higher morbidity risk than many other well 338 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: known factors such as moderate smoking and drinking and obesity. 339 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 3: But if you look at the longitudinal studies of how 340 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,639 Speaker 3: long people live, those who have the best social connections 341 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 3: live longer and are happier. And that's based on these 342 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 3: studies of Harvard, for example, They've got studies to be 343 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 3: following people up for sixty years. So social connection is 344 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 3: paramount to our well being and social isolation is problematic. 345 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 3: And this, of course is a big concern at the moment, 346 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 3: the way that technology is actually is creating I think, 347 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 3: pockets of isolation and more increased loneliness because the technology 348 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 3: is so absorbing that people just focusing on their phones 349 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 3: all the time and they're not engaging in the other 350 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,959 Speaker 3: things that they could be doing. And I'm not one 351 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 3: of these people saying, you know, social media's you know, 352 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 3: rotting the brains of our kids. I think what's really doing. 353 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320 Speaker 3: Is it's just taking away all that time that in 354 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 3: the past we used to have speaking to each other 355 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 3: and doing those other things, and I think that's its 356 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 3: real danger. 357 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: On the flip side, when people are looking at their phones, 358 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: they're often interacting with their friends and colleagues on there, 359 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: there's a set in which for people who grew up 360 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,439 Speaker 1: in very isolated environments like I grew up in the 361 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: mountains in New Mexico, I didn't have folks around, but 362 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: kids now always have folks around. Do you think that 363 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: is useful in terms of avoiding isolation. 364 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 3: Yes, I do, And the last survey by the Pew 365 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 3: Center showed that actually teenagers really don't see the same 366 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 3: problems that the adults do, so they actually think it's 367 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 3: improved their social interactions and their opportunities for interaction. I 368 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 3: would argue, though, however, it's the nature of that interaction. 369 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 3: I think there's something about doing everything through a screen. 370 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 3: It doesn't really produce the same level of social interactions. 371 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 3: I mean, for example, body movements, our ability to read 372 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: body language. These are things which we've evolved over thousands 373 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 3: of years, and now if you take it away or 374 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 3: you produce artificial interactions. Everyone knows how awkward zoom can be. 375 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 3: It's not the same as as if we were in 376 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 3: kind of a spontaneous, more informal situation. So yeah, I'm 377 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 3: not a what's the word, these are called them the luodites. 378 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 3: I'm not going to get rid of the technology. And 379 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 3: by the way, it's actually amazing and and it does 380 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 3: so many things. It allows people to Education is incredible, 381 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 3: podcasting is incredible. So these are all great, they're all upsides. 382 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 3: But I do think we need to think about how 383 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: is changed the nature of our off time as it were, 384 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 3: so I can see the concerns quite right. 385 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so your third lesson is reject negative comparisons. So 386 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: let's unpack that well. 387 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 3: As you probably know, the brain always, by its default, 388 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 3: the way it's calculating anything is by comparison. Nerve impulses 389 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 3: are a signal is real as a relative comparison to 390 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 3: the baseline. So from the very basics of how our 391 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 3: brain cells are working right up to the complexity of 392 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 3: conceptual thinking, we're always drawing comparisons. So, for example, you 393 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 3: can see this in the sensory systems. If you come 394 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 3: in from a bright day out and going to a room, 395 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 3: it takes a long time to see anything because you've 396 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 3: adapted to the brightness and the outside, so your system 397 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 3: has to calibrate to the darkness. And likewise, if you 398 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 3: go from a dark area out into somewhere bright, you're 399 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 3: startled initially. So what the brain's always doing is doing 400 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,879 Speaker 3: relative comparisons. The trouble with us is that when you 401 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 3: look at the sources of information we pay attention to, 402 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 3: it seems that we have a bias to pay more 403 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 3: attention to negative information. So, for example, if you get 404 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 3: people to read a newspaper and you don't tell them 405 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,479 Speaker 3: that you're actually monitoring their eye movements, if you look 406 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 3: at where they're focusing, they're focusing on all the negative stories, 407 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 3: all the negative information. So this is a strategy of 408 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 3: the so called negativity bias. It's called that we've evolved 409 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 3: this special bias to pay attention to things which are 410 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 3: potentially threatening. And the reason is is because that if 411 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 3: you can anticipate and avoid potential threats, you'll survive longer. 412 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: There's no point resting on your laurels and just paying 413 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,959 Speaker 3: attention to where everything's going fine. Rather strategically, from an 414 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 3: evolutionary point of view, it's much better to actually focus 415 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 3: on things which are likely to eliminate you from the 416 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 3: gene pool. 417 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: So this is. 418 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 3: Why we spot frowns, quicker and sea of faces. It's 419 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 3: why screams are more poignant than laughter, although sometimes they 420 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 3: sound the same. But this is we have a bias 421 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 3: really to pay attention to the sorts of negative information. 422 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: So given this, how does somebody take that on to 423 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: work on increasing happiness. 424 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's drawing the right comparisons. 425 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 3: So going back to social media that we mentioned briefly, 426 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 3: one of the issues that I think is somewhat problematic 427 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 3: is it presents unrealistic measures of success and what people 428 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 3: or what is normal. And if you focus just on 429 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: if you just look at other people's lives and assume 430 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 3: that that's what you should be comparing yourself to, then 431 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 3: you're going to feel inadequate because generally everyone posts their 432 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 3: best holiday snaps, the best pictures of themselves, the best food, 433 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 3: whatever it is, and so it looks like everyone's having 434 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 3: an incredibly good time. By comparison, you feel inadequate. I 435 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 3: think it's it's important to recognize that the comparisons that 436 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 3: we draw typically are unrealistic, and I think this has 437 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 3: been one of the problems of social media because everyone 438 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 3: seems to have a much more interesting life, and if 439 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 3: you ask a bunch of people, for example, who goes 440 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,879 Speaker 3: to more parties, you are other people. What happens is 441 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 3: that people will imagine or typically think of a very 442 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 3: sociable person and draw a relative comparison. But of course 443 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 3: not everyone can be below the average, because by definition, 444 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 3: the average is the norm. But this is what we 445 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 3: typically do when we're thinking about our happiness or our 446 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 3: success or how we're going on in life. We are 447 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 3: drawing the wrong comparisons by identifying those who are the 448 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 3: most obvious. 449 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,199 Speaker 1: So this leads us nicely less than four, which has 450 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: become more optimistic. Let's unpack that. 451 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 3: Okay, So, given that we have a negativity bias and 452 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 3: the information around us and the media tends to focus 453 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 3: on negative information because that's frankly what people pay more 454 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 3: attention to to hear, then we have to learn to 455 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 3: recognize that there we're in a sea of negativity, and 456 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 3: we have to learn to try and become more optimistic. 457 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 3: And the way to do that is to recognize the 458 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 3: way that we interpret and process events so this is 459 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 3: working Marty Seligmann amongst others, but they recognize that there's 460 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,160 Speaker 3: a different way of what he called attributional style, which 461 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,199 Speaker 3: is how you make sense or explain situations. And there 462 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 3: are three sorts of dimensions which typically differ between a 463 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 3: pessimist and an optimist. Pessimists tend to think setbacks are 464 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 3: permanent and never going to change or is an optimist 465 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: is much more likely to think them as transitory. A 466 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 3: pessimist is much more likely to take a setback and 467 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 3: extrapolate or overgeneralize, where saying you, I bet I've failed 468 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,719 Speaker 3: an examin of failure at everything I do in my life, 469 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 3: whereas an optimist is much more likely to sort of 470 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 3: ring fence and say, well, there are other things going on. 471 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 3: And finally, when it comes to sort of who's responsible 472 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 3: for setbacks, the pessimist is much more likely to internalize it, 473 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 3: or as it is more likely to deflect or not 474 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 3: accept responsibility. Now, whilst that's okay, you don't want to 475 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 3: be overly optimistic, because if you're overly optimistic, you'll never 476 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 3: change or learn or try to adjust. You don't want 477 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 3: to be overly pessimistic because then you're going to become 478 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 3: a little bit hopeless. So you need to again try 479 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 3: to err towards more optimism, which is to find the 480 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 3: silver lining in the cloud, as it were. And you 481 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 3: can do that, and it just takes time to sort 482 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,359 Speaker 3: of write down your setbacks and as much detail as 483 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 3: you possibly can and then reinterpret them from a more 484 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 3: optimistic view. And by the way, when I say optimists 485 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 3: and pessimists, you can be actually quite nuanced. You can 486 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 3: be pessimistic in some aspects of your life, but more 487 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 3: optimistic in others. So I don't think it's so simple 488 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,239 Speaker 3: that either one or the other. But if something is 489 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 3: impacting on your life negatively, then it's a case of 490 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 3: just trying to reinterpret it and process it in a 491 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 3: much more positive way, and through effort and time that 492 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 3: comes more naturally excellent. 493 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: So less than five is control your attentions to tell 494 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: about that. 495 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 3: So I have found this probably the most insightful and 496 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 3: fascinating area of work, and this really stems from the 497 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 3: work of mind wandering. So this is Matt Killingsworth's work 498 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 3: and Dan Gilbert, my old coolague who discovered that mind 499 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 3: wandering is incredibly common and it's not always associated with 500 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 3: pleasant daydreaming. A lot of the time when it's neutral 501 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 3: or need negative, obviously people are not particularly happy. So 502 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,639 Speaker 3: they did these studies where they contacted people at random 503 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 3: points of the day and they said what are you 504 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 3: thinking about? 505 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 2: What are you doing? And by the way, how happy 506 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 2: you are. 507 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 3: It turns out that people's minds are wandering about fifty 508 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 3: percent of the time and they tend to be less happy, 509 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 3: And I think, what's going on there is It strikes 510 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 3: me that this is probably rumination where people are focusing 511 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 3: on things that haven't gone right, or they're worrying about 512 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 3: the future, or they got some unresolved conflict. 513 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 2: And so this has been associated with. 514 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 3: Activation of the default mode network that seems to kick 515 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 3: in when you're not task focused, and that is very 516 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 3: common experience for people. And when you're not task focused, 517 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 3: I think then you tend to sort of turn in 518 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: ecocentrically to sort of view your situation. And that's why 519 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 3: I think at least the sort of unhappy thinking because 520 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 3: of this sort of tendency to focus on things when 521 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 3: they're not going well. 522 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: Tell us about lesson six, which is connect with others. 523 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 3: So probably the most powerful and the most successful positive 524 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 3: psychology intervention are those which really encourage you to form 525 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 3: social connections. So Nick Keppley, for example Chicago, has done 526 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 3: these really incredible studies where he forces people to strike 527 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 3: up conversations with strangers, and he also gets other people 528 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 3: to predict how awkward that will be. 529 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:00,400 Speaker 2: Terribly. 530 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 3: What people predict is it's going to be incredibly awkward 531 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 3: having a conversation with another person, say if you're commuting, 532 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 3: for example. But if you actually force people to strike 533 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 3: up a conversation in those circumstances, they typically will find 534 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 3: it much more rewarding and satisfying than the other group. 535 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 3: We thought it'd be very awkward. And this was done 536 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 3: originally in Chicago, and it's now been replicated in London, 537 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 3: of all places. I don't know if you've been there recently, 538 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 3: but Londoners are not the most gagariously chatty people. But 539 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 3: I think the point is is that it is in 540 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 3: our nature to be social animals, and unfortunately modern life 541 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 3: tends to get in the way of that, especially when 542 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 3: people are on their phones and not engaging with each other. 543 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 3: But if you actually are in a situation where you 544 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 3: do have to strike a spontaneous conversation, it can be incredibly, 545 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 3: really rewarding. So I think this is the recommendation I 546 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 3: make for people, is to try and have that conversation 547 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 3: with your barista or the person who's serving you in 548 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 3: the shop, and you'll discover that actually you probably have 549 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 3: a lot more common and the awkwardness that we think 550 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 3: is going to happen never really materializes. So I really 551 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 3: am a strong advocate of trying to reach out and 552 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 3: connect alicentrically. 553 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,240 Speaker 1: Excellent, and this leads nicely into the last lesson seven, 554 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: which is get out of your own head. 555 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 556 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 3: Well, that was always going to be a bit of 557 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 3: a controversial chapter because in the beginning of that I 558 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 3: talk about my own experience with psychedelics when I was young, 559 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,880 Speaker 3: And by the way, I'm not advocating this, but I 560 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 3: did want to at least acknowledge that this is a 561 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 3: burgeoning area of research. It's particularly fascinating the work coming 562 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 3: out John Hopkins and Imperial College for people who have 563 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 3: intractable depression that doesn't respond to psychopharmacology. Turns out that 564 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 3: a psychedelic experience can actually have long term, profound benefits, 565 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 3: so they just need to do it once. And I 566 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 3: find that very interesting because obviously psychedelic experiences are intense, 567 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 3: and it's most. 568 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 2: People report an altered sense of self. 569 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 3: And what's commonly reported is the feeling of greater connectivity 570 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 3: with nature, with humanity. So I think that's interesting and fascinating. 571 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 3: And by the way, you can also get those sorts 572 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 3: of experiences in more natural ways, so trans states, and 573 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 3: for example, I talk about the Worthing dervishes who induce 574 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 3: trans states where they feel like connectedness. And if you 575 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 3: ever I don't know that you may have the opportunity, David, 576 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 3: but if you ever get the opportunity to go into 577 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: outer space, maybe see business might be listening in. One 578 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 3: of the common reports of anyone of going into out 579 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 3: of space looking back on the Earth is the so 580 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 3: called overview effect, where you have this profound sense or 581 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 3: perspective when you see the planet against the fast, the 582 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 3: vastness of the cosmos, and people often say they feel 583 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 3: this connection with humanity. So I think this is really 584 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 3: forcing you into the ultimate decentralized allocentric perspective, because your 585 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 3: problems might be big, but when you see them in 586 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 3: the context of our civilization, our planet against the universe, 587 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,840 Speaker 3: then certainly everything seems a little bit more balanced. 588 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: So let me ask you this. I think people have 589 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: been working on the topic of happiness for millennia, and 590 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,600 Speaker 1: the question is what is different now, What do we 591 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: get from the scientific studies on this? Where are we 592 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: with scientific study and what still remains to be done. 593 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 3: So I think there's a number of avenues where it 594 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 3: seems to be making advances. I think there's been a 595 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 3: lot of weak work done, a lot of weak research 596 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 3: in the past, but I think we're getting a little 597 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 3: bit more rigorous now. I think psychology is getting more 598 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 3: rigorous in its approach to studies. For me, I'm interested 599 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 3: in the default mode network. I'm interested in the concept 600 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 3: of self and how that our understanding of how that's generated. 601 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 2: By our brain. 602 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 3: I think that's particularly interesting. Hence that's why I talked 603 00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 3: about this new work on psychedelics. But I think the 604 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 3: the progress is that we're now understanding why happiness is 605 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 3: so difficult to attain. In a sense, it needs to 606 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 3: be elusive, it needs to be this sort of transient 607 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 3: state because you can't be permanently happy all the time, 608 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 3: and in a sense it's foolish to try and seek 609 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 3: a permanent state of happiness. But what you can start 610 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 3: to do is understand why we get used to emotional situations, 611 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 3: why we readily adapt, and then just try to get 612 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 3: the context right. Ultimately, you know, everything we do is 613 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 3: motivated by our emotional systems. Emotions and motivation have the 614 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 3: same origin and Latin meaning to move us to move, 615 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 3: And so once we understand why we are pursuing and motivated, 616 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 3: then I think that can help in so many ways, 617 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,320 Speaker 3: not just in terms of our personal well being, but 618 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 3: also some of our decisions that we're making. I think, 619 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 3: you know, to use this term wisdom, I think is 620 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 3: important that we have to understand the consequences of our lifestyles, 621 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 3: why we pursue certain things, and ultimately, for example, materialism, 622 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 3: the says that people think they're going to be happier 623 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 3: if they. 624 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 2: Own more and more things. 625 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 3: We need to tell, you know, we need to calibrate 626 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 3: that or temper that with the appreciation that well, you know, 627 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 3: you might think that's the path of happiness, but actually 628 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 3: the research suggests that it's not. So. I think that 629 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 3: we're starting to get a much clearer picture of what 630 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 3: actually drives human behavior and also our susceptibility to messaging 631 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 3: and marketing and just become a little bit more wary 632 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 3: about that. 633 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: So, given all your research on this, what practical tips 634 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: would you give a listener? 635 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 3: Okay, So I have a couple of practical tips, and 636 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 3: actually one of them's old tech, and it's really just 637 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 3: buying a journal, buying a book with a paper and pen, 638 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,839 Speaker 3: and keeping a record of your life, both the good 639 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 3: and the bad, but particularly the bad, and writing it 640 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 3: down because left you owned devices. When you're trying to 641 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 3: sort things out in your head, first of all, you're 642 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 3: operating from a real awkward position because you're biased and 643 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 3: you're blowing things up a portion. But by documenting it, 644 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,280 Speaker 3: the process of writing things down, and I think writing 645 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 3: it rather than putting it down on a computer is 646 00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,280 Speaker 3: really important because it requires effort and processing. Any setback 647 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 3: in that tangible way works because I think it gives 648 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 3: you the time and the perspective to get things more 649 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 3: accurate as it were. But moreover, you then have accumulating 650 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 3: record of your life. And when you look back over 651 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 3: your old journals or your old diaries and you can 652 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 3: suddenly realize that life does get better. You might be 653 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 3: in a situation where you think things can never improve. 654 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,439 Speaker 3: But when you've got the luxury of looking back over 655 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 3: your life and seeing how things have changed, I think 656 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 3: that's an incredible insight and powerful way of documenting that. 657 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 3: You know, it's not what happens to you, it's how 658 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:41,720 Speaker 3: you react that matters. 659 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,280 Speaker 1: Excellent any other tips. 660 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 3: Don't underestimate the power of connection. I think it's really 661 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 3: important to show humanity, to always err on the side 662 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 3: practice active listening. This is something you do well obviously 663 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 3: as a podcaster, which is when you're in a conversation, 664 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 3: really listen to other people say and figure a question 665 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,319 Speaker 3: you can ask them because first of all, that makes 666 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 3: the experience and the conversation more enjoyable on authentic, but 667 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 3: also signals to the other person that you have been 668 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 3: paying attention to them, which is an incredibly gratifying experience. 669 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 3: That really will generate a real sense of connection, and 670 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 3: I think that is the best way to get productive interactions. 671 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: That was my interview with psychologist Bruce Hood as we 672 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: talked about the science of happiness and Bruce's book by 673 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: that title. So where does that leave us? Well, one 674 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: takeaway from today's conversation is this, happiness isn't something you 675 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: stumble on by winning the lottery or getting that car. 676 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: It's not something you can buy or collect or win 677 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: once and for all, like crossing a finish line. It's 678 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,759 Speaker 1: more like a direction you choose to walk in, and 679 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: you can take small steps to get you moving the 680 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 1: right way. The ideas that Bruce talked about suggests that 681 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: happiness isn't so much about what happens to us, but 682 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,720 Speaker 1: more about how we engage with the world, how we 683 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: connect with others, how we frame our experiences, how we 684 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 1: find purpose in what we do. It's shaped by our 685 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,760 Speaker 1: biology in part, but also by our habits, our attention, 686 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 1: and the stories that we tell ourselves. And yes, there 687 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 1: are things we cannot control. Life's always going to throw curveballs, 688 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: but it turns out that how we respond to those 689 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:36,319 Speaker 1: challenges makes a big difference, whether we cultivate optimism, whether 690 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,799 Speaker 1: we stay socially connected, whether we avoid negative comparisons, how 691 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: we control our attention. So we'll just remind us that 692 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,239 Speaker 1: the Constitution in the United States doesn't promise anybody happiness, 693 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: but instead freedom for the pursuit of happiness. And I 694 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: think that tells us that the nation's forefathers had a 695 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: view consistent with the lessons here today, which is that 696 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,879 Speaker 1: happiness is not a finish line to cross, but it's 697 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: more like a practice, something that can be nurtured and 698 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: strengthened over time. In other words, happiness is a pursuit 699 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: and it is shaped by the choices we make every 700 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: single day. There's no single formula, but there are patterns, 701 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: there are clues, and there's growing scientific data about what 702 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: actually matters. So wherever you are on that path, I 703 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:28,399 Speaker 1: hope that today's conversation brought a little more light to it. 704 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining me. Go to eagleman dot com 705 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: slash podcast for more information and to find further reading. 706 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 1: Check out my newsletter on substack and be a part 707 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: of the online chats there. You can watch videos of 708 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: Inner Cosmos on YouTube, where you can leave comments. Until 709 00:38:49,600 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 1: next time, I'm David Eagleman, and this is Inner Cosmos.