WEBVTT - Interview Only w/ Nick Troiano - How To Fix America’s Broken Political System 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.840 It's sponsorship time. But you know what, it's really great 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:06.040 when you get a sponsor that you already use. And 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:09.119 guess what. Quint's is something that in the Todd household 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:10.920 we already go to. Why do we go to Quint's 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:13.160 Because it's a place you go where you can get 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:16.680 some really nice clothes without the really expensive prices. And 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:18.840 one of the things I've been going through is I've 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:22.120 transitioned from being mister cot and tie guy to wanting 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.360 a little more casual but to look nice doing it. 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:27.880 Is I've become mister quarter zip guy. Well guess what. 0:00:28.040 --> 0:00:31.920 Guess who's got amazing amounts of quarter zips? 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That's 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:40.840 qui nce dot com, slash chuck, free shipping and three 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:45.320 hundred and sixty five day returns quints dot com slash chuck. 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:52.520 Use that code. Joining me now to talk a little 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.640 bit about reforming. Are the infrastructure of the democracy. If 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.520 somebody I've had conversations with before, somebody I've known a 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.760 long time, Nick Triano, he's the executive director of Unite America, 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:09.120 are the organization that brought ranked choice voting to the 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.760 state of Alaska in particular, had been fighting to get 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:17.880 essentially to get rid of partisan primaries, whatever form that 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.639 can be done. If it's ranked choice voting, it's ranked 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:25.200 choice voting simply getting rid of the need for party registration. 0:02:25.280 --> 0:02:27.000 Then it's getting rid of the need for that. But 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.080 it has been the through line of Nick's work. But 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:33.960 I know that he's essentially been in this game. He look, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:38.560 he ran for Congress as an independent. He's he realized 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:44.040 these barriers to entry were extraordinarily high. You know, if 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.520 you're not a far left or a far right person, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.080 is there a home for you in American politics? Is 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.320 there a home for you in primaries? And I think 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.760 Nick has been devoting himself to trying to find that 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.480 place for those of us that aren't stuck in the 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.160 wings and joins me. Now, Nick, good to see you. 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:04.880 Good to see you. Check. So let's start with sort 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:09.440 of your This is United America. What are we up? 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:13.200 Ten years coming up on ten years running the organization? 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:18.840 And we're not more united than I than we started. However, 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:20.800 we're still working on it. 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.760 So look, the let's start with ranked choice voting because 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.120 I think the first time you and I had a conversation, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:31.200 there was a lot of there's a lot of bullishness, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.880 a lot of excitement about the idea. It kind of 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:38.040 worked right pretty It seemed like it worked the way 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:42.080 it was supposed to work in Alaska, it worked the 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.080 way many people were hoping it would work in New 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:50.080 York City in twenty twenty one, and you know, the 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.080 main experiment has been less successful because of the decision 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.760 that main lawmakers made to to only have this somehow 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.480 count for federal not for state, which is just a 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:02.920 head scratcher. And frankly, I find the whole New York 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.520 City setup. So the Democrats use rank choice voting, but 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.680 that trust me, there are a lot of voters who 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.760 wanted rank choice voting, I think during the general election. 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.160 But I know, you know this, over the last four 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.400 or five years, I feel like there's been a movement 0:04:17.440 --> 0:04:21.760 against it, even people that were supportive going It's hard 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:25.160 to explain. You and I've had this conversation. I've always 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.760 said it. You know, hey, as somebody who has walked 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.520 people through election nights and talks about you know, vote 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:35.760 dumps and things like that, explaining ranked choice voting. Getting 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.440 it out of the black box is very difficult. So 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:43.480 that's a long wind up. Where are you on this? 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.600 Where's United America on rank choice voting? And is this 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:49.840 a method that you still think is the answer? 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:53.320 Well, I in you in America are focused on solving 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:55.960 what we call the primary problem, which is the role 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:59.920 that party primaries play in exacerbating our divisions in inc 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.000 increasing dysfunction in government because they incentivize candidates and elected 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.520 officials to play to the base of both parties in 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.280 order to win the only elections that really matter these days, 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.839 which is not the November election when most people vote, 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.120 but the primaries when the candidates are nominated, because most 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.920 districts and states right now lean so heavily one way 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.800 or another. So that's the problem, in our view, low 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.679 turnout party primaries dictating the outcomes of most elections before 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.360 most Americans can even vote. The solution set for what 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.320 we can do to solve that problem is varied, and 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:36.839 when we talk about solutions to the primary problem, it 0:05:36.839 --> 0:05:40.120 could look like opening up party primaries so that all 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.080 voters can participate, including independent voters that are currently locked 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.240 out of primaries. In sixteen states. It can look like 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.200 getting rid of party primaries and replacing it with all 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.280 candidate primaries, so there's a single ballot in the primary, 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.560 everyone gets to vote for whomever they want, and the 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:59.040 top finishers go to the general election. There's a system 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.440 that's called top two that's used in California and Washington 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:07.719 for example, or what Alaska adopted in twenty twenty, which 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.240 is a top four system. And when you advance four 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.520 candidates from the primary to the general election, you want 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.560 to ensure that one of them wins with majority support, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.760 not just plurality. And there are two ways of accomplishing that. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.040 One is you can hold a run off election if 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.479 no one gets over fifty percent, or the other is 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.240 you can have an instant runoff where people rank their 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.160 candidates according to preference, and if no one gets a majority, 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:36.479 there's a process of elimination using voters' backup choices. That's 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.600 what ranked choice voting refers to specifically, which is the 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.200 part of the reform in a top four primary that 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.479 is focused on ensuring a majority winner. Ranked choice voting 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.039 is used in other circumstances, and in our view, it's 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.240 most powerful when it's combined with a reform to the 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.960 primary system. So Alaska's reform is a top four primary 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.800 reform plus ranked choice voting in the general election, and 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.760 other places like New York City or Maine are what 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.520 we would think of as partial reforms because they only 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.320 have ranked choice voting and they don't really have any 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.400 other kinds of reforms to the primary system that could 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:14.720 improve governing incentives by widening the electorate. 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:19.520 Let's talk about the mechanics of ranked choice voting, because 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:25.240 I think that's been the stumbling block. Can you is 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.040 there any way to make this feel more transparent where 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:33.880 you feel like you can see I have not come 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:37.800 up with one, but I'm curious if if you have, 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:39.480 or you know of other folks who have tried. 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:44.040 Well, there's two parts to the ranked choice voting process. 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.400 There is the part where voters show up to the 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.800 voting booth or get their ballot in the mail and 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.440 they fill out their ballot. And that part is simple, 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:54.880 which is you have the option of ranking your candidates 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.200 or you can just vote for your favorite. And in 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.119 all of our exit polling, we found that eighty plus 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:02.480 percent of voters say that they find this simple to do, 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.920 and that number goes up over time as people get 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.120 used to it. The second part is how the votes 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:12.360 are tabulated, and that is done by election administrators. They 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.200 have a range of options for how they do it, 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.960 and some jurisdictions in the country, particularly those that have 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:19.680 been using it for a decade or more, have found 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.120 ways that this can be an instantaneous process and it 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.600 could be fully transparent, which is to say, they release 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.760 the cast vote records so that there is a way 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.520 that anyone can audit the results. There is a way 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.480 to make sure that there's results delivered on election night, 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:37.960 and there's ways of displaying the results that make it 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:41.280 intuitive for people to understand exactly what happens at each 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:45.360 round of the tabulation. So the charge sometimes that it's 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:49.559 a complicated or confusing system is really used by opponents 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.920 to say, you know, let's not change the way that 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.440 the elections are currently working, because the current way works 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.520 for them, It works for the two major parties, it 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:02.040 works for the incumbent politician. They're afraid of change. But 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.520 you know, election reforms like the ones we champion have 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:10.120 been used successfully in America and abroad for many years, 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:12.319 and it's a necessary part of what's going to take 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:14.760 to foster a more functional and representative government. 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.640 Look, I am, I am. If we could get if 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.040 we could go to a top four I fully believe 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:27.360 we should be a top four democracy. I'd love to 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.920 see that in our presidential race, you know where and 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:32.440 then and that I wouldn't do rank choice. I think 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.120 the country suite, there's a runoff, then the top two 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.160 face off, we have one more debate, like there's a runoff, 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.040 right Like it feels like that that is that we 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.880 you know, we wouldn't have a big drop in you know, 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.480 the concern and when we got rid of general election runoffs, 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:49.920 the concern is always, well, you're not going to have 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.160 a good turnout. Well that's not true anymore. I mean, 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:55.680 my god, I look at the special election in Tennessee 0:09:56.080 --> 0:10:01.400 earlier this during the early part of December, and for 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:06.600 a special election in December, you know, there were something 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:08.600 like one hundred and fifty thousand total votes. I mean 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:13.239 that's impressive for that. I mean, I think the engagement 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.440 with the democracy, and you know, I think there's a 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:20.240 I think there's a commentary about our country that our 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.120 electric gets engaged when when they when they think they 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:27.480 feel it slipping away. But you know, it turns out 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:32.679 that apathy was a sign of stability. But it is, 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:36.760 so I don't mind that. What but if we had 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.720 thirty states holding runoffs but the other twenty didn't, then 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.760 I could see that that would be an issue. 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:45.360 Well, runoffs get a bad rap for some good reasons, 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.440 including that they have been used historically in ways to 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:49.320 dis It. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.320 Was about denying black representation in the South, right, That's 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.520 why why did we have Southern runoffs. Every Southern state 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.320 had runoffs for one reason, and one reason only, to 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:00.800 prevent black people and winning elections. 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:03.960 And two things can be true, which is that there 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:08.000 are systems that have runoffs today that don't necessarily have 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:12.120 that negative impact that you actually do see turnout increase 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.880 in the runoff. That is the case in Louisiana, for example, 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.720 in their governor's races. Louisiana has a very interesting election 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:21.880 system where there is effectively no primary. There is a 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.839 general election. Everyone gets to be on the ballot. They're 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.320 kind of top two, right, and if no one gets majority, 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.440 there's a runoff. And so in that case, the top 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.280 two finishers advance, or if someone gets a majority of 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.760 the vote. It's a one and done election. And by 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.920 the way, it's simpler for election administrators, it's simpler for voters, 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.320 and it's better for democracy because the election that matters 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:45.880 is the one in which most people are already voting, 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.240 and so you get a more representative outcome and there's 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.920 not this initial primary filter. We're only ten percent of voters, 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.160 who are usually on the most extreme fringes of the 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.040 political spectrum, are deciding you know, election outcomes, and so 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.200 this will set wonky and maybe mechanical to people, but 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.000 it has an impact on public policy because when you 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:09.040 look at Louisiana, it's one of the only Deep South. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.079 It is the only Deep South state that's expanded medicaid, 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.600 for example, and was one of the first states to 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.319 really lean into charter school reform. And when you think 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.040 about the purpose of government and is it representing people, 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.840 in Louisiana, more citizens have access to healthcare and too 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.600 education than a lot of other pure states. And the 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.959 reason for that is they have a more functional political 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.160 system with leaders who are intended and focused on solving 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:36.800 problems rather than just these partisan squabbles every day. And 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:41.400 so performing our elections improve incentives. But ultimately improves governance 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.320 so that we can solve problems that matter to people. 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.120 Of course, I think Bill Cassidy wishes that they would 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:49.880 have kept the old system, but now they're going to 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:54.360 go to a primary system, which certainly complicates his path 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.480 to renomination. Let's talk about where you're active on the 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.360 playing field here. What's the status in Alaska and what's 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:04.560 the status in Nevada. I know, those are two places 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:06.280 that you've been active. And where else are you guys 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.960 active in trying to expand access to primaries. 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.480 So Alaska is a great success story for primary reform 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.520 because after the state adopted it through the ballot initiative 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.760 process in twenty twenty, it's now gone through two election 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:23.079 cycles where more voters than ever before have been able 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:25.400 to cast what we call a meaningful ballot, you know, 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:29.480 which is a ballot in election that's truly competitive in 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:34.720 which of their vote matters. And that resulted in Chuck Is. 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.520 The State House and the State Senate now have bipartisan 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.560 governing majorities. It's not just one party that's in charge. 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:45.320 There's a coalition of members Democrats, Republicans, and independents by 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.240 the way, that are working together. To address the problems 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.040 important to the state, most recently overriding a governor's veto 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:56.120 to increase education funding. And so Alaska's been a success 0:13:56.160 --> 0:14:00.079 story of how better elections result in better governance, and 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.200 it's produced a backlash from those who used to be 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.960 in power and liked elections when it only represented a 0:14:06.960 --> 0:14:09.680 handful of people, And so they've been trying to repeal 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.880 this system. They were unsuccessful in that last year, a 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:15.360 majority of voters in Alaska voted to defend the system, 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.280 and opponents are going to likely try again next year. 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.560 And I suspect that support for the system is going 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:24.680 to continue to grow over time, not just because people 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:27.360 in theory like the concept of the freedom to vote 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.520 for whomever they want, but now they're getting real and 0:14:29.560 --> 0:14:32.200 better results from the system that they voted in a 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:32.880 few years ago. 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:36.160 Did you think you were going to have to fight 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:40.160 multiple election years in Alaska to keep this system in place. 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.520 I don't think it's a surprise that every action has 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:47.640 an equal opposite reaction. There's the forces of trying to 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.680 make government better fighting against the forces that are trying 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:54.120 to protect the status quo. I think that the period 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.200 of defense is most important in the immediate years after 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.480 the adoption of reform, but that it gets better over 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.760 time because the new incumbents, there are those elected under 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.280 this system who actually like it and want to defend it. 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.560 And so it's not the legislature that's trying to repeal it, right, 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.240 it's a small faction of partisan activists that are. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.600 The other perception problem rank choice voting has, and I 0:15:17.640 --> 0:15:20.120 say it's a perception problem because it obviously depends on 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:24.240 where you sit, is that it appears to have benefited 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.960 the center left more than it has benefited anybody on 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:27.280 the right. 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.640 Well, I think the challenge that we saw in twenty 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.880 twenty two was that the candidates who were running the 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:39.400 two Republicans, were late to adopt their campaign strategies to 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.200 this new system. So instead of telling voters vote for 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.880 me first and the other Republican second, they ran against 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:50.240 the system that the voters just adopted. And so without 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:55.280 that adoption of a new strategy to build broad coalitions, 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.360 a moderate Democrat, Mary Potola, you know, was able to 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.320 win that US House race. By the way, a couple 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.160 of years later, voters voted differently, and the Republican now 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.720 represents that US House seat. So I do think that 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.240 there's this transition period in which the parties and the 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.880 politicians have to get smarter in how they campaign under 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:17.520 the new rules of the system rather than campaigning under 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.600 what the old rules used to be. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.960 So that's Alaska. So you're likely having a is it 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.320 the same ball on initiative that the opponents are putting 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.000 up or are they rewarded. 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.960 It they actually expanded what they're trying to repeal to 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:37.000 include repealing dark money disclosure requirements that were originally passed 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:37.800 in twenty twenty. 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.320 Oh wow, that actually helps your cause. People don't like 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:41.040 dark money. 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.160 People don't like dark money, and they don't like party primaries, 0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:47.160 and they don't like plurality winners and elections, and so 0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:51.120 opponents are trying to do something unpopular for the sake 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.760 of protecting, you know, what was their own political power. 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:58.320 And I'm confident that the system will continue to endure 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:01.120 and be a proof of concept that other states could 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.040 potentially replicate. And that's what we did see in last 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:09.560 year's elections. You know, multiple other states pursued ballot initiatives 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:14.360 for an Alaska style kind of system, and while none passed, 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.800 three states came within three percentage points of passing in 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:19.440 a pretty to. 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.600 Be honest, though, five years ago, I thought all of 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.800 those were going to get pass easily. You know, I 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.360 remember when we were first talking, and you know, you're like, yeah, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.600 we got to do Nevada twice. You were pretty you 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.000 had you were kind of bullish about Missouri, I believe 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:37.720 if I'm not mistaken, And it did seem as if 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:44.359 the opponents got savvier in pushing back at you guys 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:46.760 in Nevada and elsewhere. 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.480 Well, what we're up against is the two party duopoly 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:51.040 that wants to. 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.280 Protect actually working with each other in this one. 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.560 Right, it was Democrats that spent over fifteen million dollars 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.480 against this in Alaska and Republicans who spent over seven 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:04.440 million in Montana to try and fight it, and they 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.480 would sort of weaponize the issue and say like, actually, 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.239 these reforms are about the stocking horse for the other party. Well, 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.280 they both can't be right when they're saying that, And 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.200 so we have work to do to build more early 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.200 and durable support among voters for these policies. We don't 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.679 need to convince anyone that our political system is broken. 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:25.240 What we do need to do is educate voters about 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.080 the benefits of these systems and why it is worth 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:31.399 a change. And as you know, the threshold of getting 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.360 a voter to vote yes on an initiative is much 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.000 harder than getting them to vote no, because you have 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.399 to kind of prove your case beyond a reasonable doubt. 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.080 And I think that's the task that we've signed up 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.480 for and we're going to continue to work on because 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.960 the status quo is unacceptable and it's leaving us in 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.480 a direction in which we're seeing our politics. 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:55.560 Unravel even further. Having good life insurance is incredibly important. 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:58.520 I know from personal experience. I was sixteen when my 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.320 father passed away. We didn't have any money. He didn't 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.160 leave us in the best shape. 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And when you think about the re redistricting wards, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.920 it is taking you know, the issue of political party 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.600 manipulation and putting it right in the voter's face. Right, 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.280 so you know, I throw that in there. You throw 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:00.520 in that the electorate that you're like to get in 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:02.800 a midterm environment is an electorate that's going to be 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:05.520 more open to changes in the primary system. I think 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.680 that electric you would get in a mega induced environment. 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.080 I think we think you know where I'm going there. 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:14.520 So what states do you expect to be on the 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.320 ballot in trying to do primary reform? 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:18.199 And is it. 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.119 And let me know and differentiate whether it'll be the 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.640 top four or it's just open primaries, et cetera. 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:30.200 There is a lot of activity happening in the movement 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.359 to reform our politics. There is litigation happening to open 0:21:34.359 --> 0:21:38.199 close primaries in states like Maryland or Pennsylvania. 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.840 I'm convinced there's an equal protection argument on this. I 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:44.199 do not the idea that the tax that there is 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:50.200 a poll tax against me as an independent voter, and 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.040 there's you're telling me that the only way I could 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:54.960