1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Body bus. 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 2: But Joseph's gotten more. 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: I mean, if you guys remember out there those moments 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: in high school, reflecting back when you found maybe that's special, 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: someone that you connected with, You connected with them so 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: well that all you wanted to do was spend time 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: with them. It didn't really matter where you spent time 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: with them. It was just being with them and talking 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: and sometimes, of course, you know, teenage world talking at 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 1: least to other things. But that aside, it's still a 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: moment in time that you can never recapture, and there's 12 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: nothing like it in the world. For most of us 13 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: that experience that, it's kind of joyful. You get the 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: warm fuzzies when you think about it. But just think 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: for a moment. You're on a road, you're parked. You 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: and a young lady are sitting in your car, and 17 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: you're chatting, and you notice that there is a car 18 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: that is pulled up behind you, a car you've never 19 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: seen before. Dark you can see a figure behind the wheel, 20 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: and then suddenly a man approaches and the next thing 21 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: you know, the glass from your window is exploding, and 22 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 1: two rifle rounds lodge within your body, and your young 23 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: life begins to slip away and all you can think 24 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: about is a young lady in the seat next to you, 25 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: trying to protect her. But it suddenly becomes fully apparent 26 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: that you're not going to be able to. Today on Bodybacks, 27 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: I'm proud to say that we're going to talk about 28 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: a case that has been called for decades and finally, 29 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: because of our friends at author and laboratories, there is 30 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: now a resolution. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Bodybacks. 31 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: David's case came across my desk and I had to 32 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: make comment about it today. I wanted all of our 33 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: friends to really really know about it because it's I'm 34 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: not saying that that death comes any more softly to 35 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 1: those that are of a more mature age. Death is 36 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: always hard, but there is just something about it when 37 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: you have people that are in the bloom of youth. 38 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: I think that just makes it all all the more horrific, 39 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: particularly with violent death. There's no way to anticipate it. 40 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I think back even now to my kids, 41 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: I cannot even begin to fathom and the idea that 42 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: when you tell them as they're walking out the door 43 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: and I'll be safe, be safe, I want you to 44 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 1: come on back home and you're never going to see 45 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: them again. 46 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: But you hit me with something right before we started. 47 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 3: You mentioned a note in here, and it affects every 48 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 3: young man that if you ever played sports in high school, 49 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 3: you know there are levels of sports where in this 50 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 3: particular case, we have we've got a young guy here 51 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: who was He was a high school athlete of some merit. 52 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: People knew who he was. We're talking about. This is 53 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 3: Shasta County, California, right, I mean we're up in Cherry 54 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 3: Pepinie World. Yeah, and this is in nineteen nineteen eighty four, 55 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 3: by the way, it's a week before Christmas, nineteen eighty four, 56 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 3: and there's this high school athlete who has graduated and 57 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: he's now in college. But he's eighteen, and there's a 58 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 3: high school basketball tournament going on, isn't there? Isn't that 59 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 3: why they're outside? 60 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: Isn't that? Okay? So think about this. 61 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: You know, you graduate from high school, you're the star. 62 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 3: You go off to college and so you're not the 63 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 3: athlete from high school anymore. You're coming back from college 64 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: and you're still a young guy. I'm just that's such 65 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 3: a cool time to be. You know, who is and 66 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 3: what he and he died heroically. I'm just going to 67 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 3: tell you that Terrence aren't. Terry aren't died heroically if 68 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 3: that's possible. I mean, I think we all hope that 69 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: in a situation where we are faced with a life 70 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 3: and death decision, that we will go above and beyond 71 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 3: to protect who we're with. Ye, I hope that's in 72 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 3: all character. And Terry, bless his heart, he died a hero. 73 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, he did, and the way it has been described. 74 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 1: And keep in mind, Dave, it's nineteen eighty four, brother, 75 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: you know, you know, you think about how far away 76 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,359 Speaker 1: we are from that world at this point in time. 77 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:32,119 Speaker 1: And he he was in this car with lady friend. 78 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: And listen, I have to tell you. We know that 79 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: she's young. She's eighteen as well, but they have to 80 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: this date never released her name. And I'll get to 81 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: that in just a moment. But the I was going 82 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: to say intestinal fortitude here, but the idea of being heroic, 83 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: I don't know that it's necessarily a thing where you 84 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: have to build up your courage. This is kind of 85 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: a promal response and maybe just goes to what had 86 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,119 Speaker 1: been ingrained in him since he was a little kid. 87 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: That he's there, and he's to protect this young lady 88 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: that he obviously cares about. I don't know about you. 89 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to sit in the car with some 90 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: young lady that I wouldn't have that I didn't care about, 91 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, And here he is, he's going to put 92 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: himself in the way she actually described it is he 93 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: apparently Dave turned like rotated his body in order to 94 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: shield her. And the understanding is is that you got 95 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: a guy that just walks up to this window and 96 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: he apparently is armed, not with a handgun, Dave, but 97 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: a long arm. And this is a guy that really 98 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: means business. You know, you show up and it's not 99 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: just the power of long arm, but it's the menacing 100 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: of this thing. It's one thing if you show up 101 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: with like maybe a pistol. And don't get me wrong, 102 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: they're terrifying to be around, but you know that somebody 103 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: means business when they are not afraid to walk around 104 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: with a shoulder fired firearm that anybody could recognize. That's 105 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: why they called pistols concealed weapons. You know, it's really 106 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: hard to conceal a rifle, you know what I'm saying. 107 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, which is why I'm glad you pointed it out, 108 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 3: because in this particular case, we've got the young eighteen 109 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 3: year old couple sitting outside in the carp talking in 110 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 3: air quotes and as I'm still amazed at what happened, 111 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 3: that the reason we know what happened is because of 112 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 3: Terrence aren't turning his body two shield the girl that 113 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 3: he's with from danger. Granted, he is shot and killed, 114 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 3: and this young woman, I don't know how she had 115 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 3: it in her what she had just experienced, Joe. She 116 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: just saw this friend cover her with his body to 117 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 3: try to save her, and he gets shot and killed, 118 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 3: and then she's left alone with this guy with the 119 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: long arm, the long gun. And I always think nowadays, 120 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 3: when we call it sexual assault, we're not being as 121 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 3: direct as what actually transpired. And I know that has 122 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 3: something to do with platforms and how they demonetize things 123 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 3: when you say certain things. But sexual assault is so 124 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: much worse than what it sounds. 125 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it is, and it comes along with there's 126 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: a variety of things that come along with it because well, 127 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: let's just take the word assault just by itself. You've 128 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: got a threatening element to it. You've also got the 129 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: physical element that is more than say. 130 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: The act. 131 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: If you will, there can be events where people are struck, 132 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: they're beaten. Always think about somebody with a long arm. 133 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: Maybe I've seen one too many, you know World War 134 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: II movies where people are assaulted with the butt of 135 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: a weapon, but you know, just that menacing thing that 136 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: comes along, or taking the muzzle of the weapon and 137 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,719 Speaker 1: putting it, you know, against them, telling them, giving them directives, 138 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 1: giving them commands of what you will and will not do, 139 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: and you shall submit to what I tell you to do, 140 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: and listen. She had evidence at that moment in time 141 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: that this individual meant business, Dave, because it's not just 142 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: it's not just the fact that this young man sacrificed 143 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: his life for her, but the showering of the glass 144 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: as those projectiles pass through it, which by the way, 145 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: they turn into tiny little projectiles of their own. They 146 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 1: fragment you have and if it's fired through, if it's 147 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: fired through a side window, you'll get impact with these 148 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: bits of glass. The glass actually cubes. I don't know 149 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: if people know that, but the glass in the side windows, 150 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: a safety glass will cube and you'll get these little 151 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: right angle lacerations on your person. I've seen this happen. 152 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: It happens in car accidents. A lot gunfire can initiate 153 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,840 Speaker 1: these things as well, because suddenly they take on their 154 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: own independent velocity that's generated as a result of the 155 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: kinetic energy of this round passing through the glass, shattering 156 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: it and driving it forward. So even if it doesn't 157 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: have a lot of energy, you're being showered in this. 158 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: And in addition to that, in addition of that, it's 159 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: also the sound, Dave. Can you imagine being locked into 160 00:10:54,840 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: the cabin of a motor vehicle and a rifle is fired, 161 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: is fired into this space. Do you realize how disorienting 162 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: that is? And all of that sound, the powder, the spark, 163 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 1: the flame, and you don't realize that that there's literally 164 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 1: flame coming out of the end of a muzzle. If 165 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: you slow down a firearm, and particularly at night, you 166 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: can really appreciate the cabin becomes illuminated all of a sudden. 167 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: So you've got all of this activity that goes to 168 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: this act, to this assault, if you will, And it's 169 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: this continued after that, because after this monster kills Terry, 170 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: he threatens this young woman and forces her forces her 171 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: to commit acts which well, let's just say it this 172 00:11:50,400 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: way should never happen in a civilized society. But Dave, 173 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna write a number to you, and now get 174 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: ready for this because I can. I anticipated you know. 175 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: For those you guys that don't know, Dave and I 176 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,119 Speaker 1: are looking at each other right now and our monitors, 177 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: and this is how we have our conversations every day. 178 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: A matter of fact, we get distracted many times because 179 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: we just want to chat. We'll chat about anything, you know. 180 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: We live so close to one talk about this like 181 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 3: this is kind of like texting your wife in the 182 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 3: kicking from the living room saying. 183 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,439 Speaker 2: Hey, I need some more mayonnaise on my sandwich. We're 184 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: that clothes. But we actually end up doing it this way. 185 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: We ought to actually just go sit on each other's 186 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: porches and do this show. You know what I'm saying. 187 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 2: At any rate, what were you going to hit me with? 188 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 1: I'm going to hit you with a number, all right, 189 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: three and four thirty four? Do you know what that 190 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: number is significant of in this case? M No, you're 191 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: ready for this. That's the number of detectives that have 192 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: worked on this case since it first happened. Wow thirty four, David, Wow, 193 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: thirty four. Can you imagine that, you know how many 194 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: hands that has passed through this case material has passed 195 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: through over the years. 196 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 3: That's that is an agency committed to solving an unsolvable case. 197 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: And to be honest with you, Joe, I was shocked 198 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 3: that it went cold because you're talking about December eighteen, 199 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four. Granted that is a long time ago. 200 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 3: It is, but it's not from that time. It's not 201 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 3: like it was in the black and white television, Golden 202 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 3: era of TV. I mean, we were a pretty sophisticated 203 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 3: society in nineteen eighty four, and I don't anticipate a 204 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: case like this that happens in an area that has people. Again, 205 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: there was a basketball tournament going on, there was a 206 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 3: lot of people in the area. It wasn't isolated. There 207 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 3: are a lot of reasons to actually have this solved, 208 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 3: and I think that might have played into the reason 209 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 3: it did pass through thirty four different detectives giving it 210 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 3: their best shot, because this is a crime that should 211 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 3: never go unsolved. And I do think that it's important 212 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 3: to point out that while we talked about Terry, aren't 213 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 3: the high school star athlete who is now in college 214 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 3: and comes back and he's sitting in his car while 215 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 3: a basketball tournament's going on, talking to another eighteen year 216 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 3: older girl. And when this killing, the murder happens. But 217 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 3: after this monster has committed these heinous acts on this woman, Joe, 218 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: she thought she was dead, the suspect, the monster thought 219 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 3: she was dead. Nothing else for me to do except 220 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 3: slink off into the night with the rest of the monsters, 221 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: which is what he did. 222 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: But guess what, you know, I understand, from a perspective 223 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: of privacy and propriety and everything, I really wish I 224 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: knew her name, just so that I could and could 225 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: see her and look her in her eye and just 226 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: tell her you talked about being her rower. Wow, Dave, 227 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: she got in this. She got behind the wheel of 228 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: Terry's vehicle with him in the vehicle, and drove drove 229 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: to get him to a hospital. Now she has already 230 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: been assaulted violently at this point in time, she drove 231 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: Terry to a hospital where they took him from the vehicle. 232 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm assuming she probably drove up to the er ambulance ramp. 233 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 3: Actually, Joe, Yeah, yeah, it's she actually a did not 234 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 3: know how to drive the vehicle. That he had, and 235 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 3: she had to find a cop, She had to find somebody, 236 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 3: and that's what she found. She actually found an on 237 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 3: duty cop, holy smokes, and was able to reach them 238 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 3: and say, hey, this is what happened. Help me, And 239 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: that's how they got him. But that's the I think 240 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 3: that goes back to the heart and soul of why 241 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 3: the police were so committed, because they weren't there when 242 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 3: it happened. They were there in the minutes after, when 243 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: they saw the horror of what had happened to an 244 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 3: eighteen year old girl. And I think that's why, because 245 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 3: she found them and said, this just happened. The guy's 246 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 3: still in town. He's got to be around here. 247 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: He's got to be around and there's not it. Look, 248 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: you know, I know that this is not necessarily I'm 249 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: not saying they got a pipe sunshine into this area. Yeah, However, 250 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: bend to Shasta County, California. Arguably, in my opinion, at 251 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: least by the way I measure things in California, it's 252 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 1: probably one of the more beautiful areas. It's way way, way, way, 253 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: way way up north. It's up toward Oregon. Beautiful Senor. 254 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: If you let me tell you something. If you have 255 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: never beheld Mount Shasta in person, it is something to see. Oh, 256 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: my lord, beautiful area up there. But she was able 257 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: to get him into the hands of somebody that could 258 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: render eight in. Unfortunately, Terry died. He died, but he 259 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: did not die in that vehicle. Now he may have 260 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: been on the verge of death, but she got him 261 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: to some location where they could put hands on him 262 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: and try to treat him. And of course he you know, 263 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: he gave up the ghost at that point in time. 264 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: But you know what, I'm fascinated by this dynamic of 265 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: having the police be involved in this. Now I can 266 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: tell you this, they would not have had a tremendous 267 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: amount of manpower back then. It would have been and 268 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: back in those days, this particular area of the state 269 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: I would say was at least a third less populated 270 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: than it currently is. I would imagine you didn't have 271 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: as many people fleeing to that area from you know, 272 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 1: the lower area of California, lower areas of California to 273 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: get up there and get away, and so they would 274 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: I would imagine that they were. They kind of had 275 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: a shortage. So even if you put out a bolo 276 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: on this case, it would be difficult. But first, the 277 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: first thing you have to do is if she's communicative 278 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: and you'd be surprised, well, you probably wouldn't be surprised day, 279 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: but there are so many of these assault victims that 280 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: when you go to speak to them, they're almost shocky. 281 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: When you talk to them, they can't, they cannot converse 282 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: with you. But you know, Dave, in this particular case, 283 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: she gave a descriptor of this perpetrator and they actually 284 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,679 Speaker 1: rendered a sketch of this guy. And you know what, 285 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: that sketch, as it turns out years later, was pretty close, 286 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: pretty close in appearance to who this turns out to 287 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: be that actually perpetrated this crime. I know that I'm 288 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: giving a bit away here, but I think that it's 289 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: really important to understand what she accomplished here. The other 290 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: thing too, and this is kind of a real tragic 291 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: thing that has to occur, and it's it's horrible and painful, 292 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: and all those sorts of things with her, they would 293 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: have had to have done a rather detailed examination, if 294 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,719 Speaker 1: you understand what I'm saying, There would have been relations yeah, 295 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: and so it's yeah, it kind of is. But here 296 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 1: she is you know, her face said, like flint, she's determined. 297 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 1: I think at this point in time that she she 298 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: wants this guy caught. All right, So in this examination 299 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: they did in fact collect biological evidence. But unfortunately, you know, 300 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four is actually the year that actually the 301 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 1: year that DNA was first utilized or it was proposed 302 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:28,360 Speaker 1: that DNA could be utilized as a methodology of solving 303 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: criminal cases in England. That's how that's how far back 304 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: this goes. And the guy that actually did that, he 305 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: winds up winning I think he won a Nobel Prize 306 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: and so that, but that goes back so very far. 307 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 1: So you didn't have the utility at that point in time. 308 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: The best you could do is to do a kit 309 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: and take any kind of biological evidence that you might 310 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: have if the you're praying that the individual might be 311 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 1: a secretor where if you have seminal fluid, perhaps that 312 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: they've got red identifiable red blood cells, you know, in 313 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: either saliva or seamen that they've left behind, you can 314 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: get a blood type. Perhaps because at this point in time, 315 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: Cotis Cotis didn't exist. At this point in time, you know, 316 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: everybody talks about you know, Cotis's Codis that but even 317 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: back then Cotis was brother. It was not a thing. 318 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 3: Man, right, And that's where you know you're talking about 319 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 3: the population size. Okay, I looked it up because I 320 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: was I started getting really curious in Bernie, California where 321 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 3: this happened. In the county of Shasta. You know about 322 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 3: thirty one hundred people in Bernie. So I think that 323 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 3: is why. You know, again they made mention of the 324 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 3: man was unknown. The suspect is an unknown person because 325 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 3: in a town that small, well, most people that grow 326 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 3: up together, they go to school together, they know one another. 327 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 3: Or I have an idea, it's your cousin or so 328 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 3: and So's brother. You have an idea. But in this case, 329 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 3: as they ran down the list, even getting the description 330 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 3: from the victim, still didn't have an idea of who 331 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 3: it was at the time. 332 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's that's quite terrifying. I can only imagine, 333 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: because you know, Bernie is not someplace I would think, 334 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: at least Dave, that you wind up by accident. You 335 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: have to intentionally be headed that way, you know, to 336 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: be domiciled there. You might work in, say the timber 337 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 1: industry or something like this. One of my most vivid 338 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: memories of being up in that county. It was actually 339 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: during the wintertime. I went into a restaurant in Mount Shasta, 340 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: and I may have related this story to you, And 341 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: I walked in and there was snowpack on the ground 342 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: all around this one restaurant. I've been driving down five 343 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: I think it was five from Oregon and walked into 344 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: the restaurant, and Dave, I walked in there and they 345 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: had these gigantic plates of pancakes that were massive, and 346 00:22:55,160 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: everybody dig this. Everybody that was in there was a lumberjack. 347 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: They all look like that, you know. They had the 348 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: suspenders on, the big heavy boots, the big beards, you know, 349 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: and and so that's the type of world that this 350 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: was back during that period of time. Do you actually 351 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: think do you actually think that cases like this happened 352 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: in that location on a regular basis. I can only 353 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 1: imagine it was like getting a hit, you know, hit 354 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:25,959 Speaker 1: between the eyes with a two by four for the 355 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: residents up there. And what a horrible thing. This kid 356 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: Terry was known man, because when you're in a small town, 357 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: you know, it's the old Miranda Lambert song, you know. 358 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: I think that in a small town everybody knows your name. 359 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: You know, you're the cock of the walk. He's gone 360 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: off to college, he's playing ball. Now you can only 361 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: imagine how much this impacted that little community up there 362 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: that knew Terry and probably know this young lady. And 363 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: the biggest question is how do you find out who 364 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: this is? Well? Well, unfortunately for that little community, that 365 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: answer wouldn't come for another forty years. I'll make a 366 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: little comment about myself here. I've got serious trust issues, Dave. 367 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: And let me give you an example. When people show 368 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: up to court with a tank of oxygen and they're 369 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,480 Speaker 1: in a wheelchair and they've been accused of a horrible crime. 370 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: I have questions. Now. I know some of you are 371 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: out there more than you're being mighty judge. Now I've 372 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 1: I've seen a thing or two, okay, and we'll get 373 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: to that in just a moment. But I just want 374 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,720 Speaker 1: to frame this out from jump Street here that when 375 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: I see an individual present this way, I think that 376 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: it's an attempt on somebody's part to try to beg 377 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: for mercy in a case where they showed no mercy, Dave. 378 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: But you know I got to tell you through technology 379 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 1: finally caught up. Technology finally caught up with this huge 380 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: mystery out of Bernie that occurred all those years ago, 381 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: which for me is it's very very satisfying. I think, 382 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: like a lot of these cases that we cover nowadays, 383 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: there's a certain level of satisfaction where you just you 384 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: don't think that anything will ever come of it, and 385 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: it does because I got to tell you. You remember 386 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: I talked about the samples that were taken from this 387 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 1: young woman. Well, Dave, years later, you know, we talked 388 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: about the thirty four investigators involved in this case. Years later, 389 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: they did take those samples and put them into codis 390 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: and guess what, they didn't get a hit. Well, there 391 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: you go, they didn't get a hit at that point, Tom. 392 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: So at that point Tom technology still had not caught up. 393 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: But here we are today and we finally got answers. 394 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 3: You know, you were talking about how you don't trust 395 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 3: people when they show up in court and oxygen mask 396 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 3: and all that. I was reminded of an episode I 397 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 3: was reading this great piece of work about the guy 398 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 3: that played Colonel Potter on Mash you know, replacement Harry Morgan. 399 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 3: Here Morgan is and he replaced McLean Stevenson when McLean 400 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 3: left to do movies and ended up doing Hello Larry 401 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 3: for three. 402 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: Episodes, and that was it, all right. 403 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 3: So Potter comes in and all of a sudden, people 404 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 3: kind of forget who was there before Potter. Anyway, Harry 405 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 3: Morgan had been an actor in movies TV for years 406 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 3: even at that point. Well, he was in an episode 407 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 3: of the Partridge Family where the Partridge Family bus hit 408 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 3: his bumper on his car, and all of a sudden, 409 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 3: when you found ot they were musicians, all of a sudden, 410 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 3: he had a neck back problem and everything else. And 411 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: he shows up in court with the next thing on 412 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 3: and somebody drops a briefcase and book there he turns, 413 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 3: you know, and it's busted. 414 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: In great episode. 415 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think the same thing when I see 416 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,639 Speaker 3: somebody in court that is really dogging it, you know, 417 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 3: especially if you're trying to you're accused of a heinous 418 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 3: crime that you've gotten away with for a long time. 419 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 3: In this particular case, buddy, we're talking about and from 420 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four until now, we've talked about how long 421 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 3: ago that was. Well, think about it for just a minute. 422 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 3: This crime took place in December nineteen eighty four, one 423 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 3: week before Christmas, and here we are weeks away from 424 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 3: Christmas twenty twenty five and finally because of because of 425 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 3: great police work not giving up. I'm going to give 426 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 3: them the credit because they could have walked away from 427 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 3: this and barried, just left it alone. Been easy to do, 428 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 3: but they didn't. And every time we do an episode 429 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 3: like this, I've told you about the math and the 430 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 3: just the genetic genealogy and all of the work that 431 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,239 Speaker 3: goes in. We do an episode in forty minutes on 432 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 3: what happened, but it takes weeks, months and years from 433 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 3: the beginning of the process until they actually can identify somebody, 434 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 3: because you don't If it was easy, everybody would do 435 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 3: it and we wouldn't have these episodes. But it's not easy. 436 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 3: It takes time. Well, finally, in twenty twenty five this year, 437 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 3: the Shasta County Sheriff's Office actually submitted some forensic evidence 438 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 3: to AUTHORM in the Woodlands, Texas to determine if advanced 439 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 3: DNA testing could help them identify a suspect not giving up, 440 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 3: Joe not giving up, and what happened. 441 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 1: Well, what happened is is that they actually developed a 442 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: hit on a fellow who as it turns out, was 443 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: living down in Tucson, Arizona, and you know, the road 444 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 1: kind of led to him, and he's he's a guy 445 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: that that lived in that area. They began to dig 446 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: into his background and guess what, dave. He apparently had 447 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: no substantive priors at all. He was he was not 448 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: on anybody's radar. Yeah, yeah, wow. And so that that 449 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: in and of itself, you go back to cotis right, 450 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: because this kind of borrows a hole into the whole 451 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: the whole line of thinking about offenders like this. How 452 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: many times have you and I both heard somebody say 453 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: they will offend again? Yeah, okay, that this is not there? 454 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: You know how many how many cliche television shows have 455 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: you seen? This is in their first time start, you know, yeah, 456 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, And I don't necessarily We've had a couple 457 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: of these other cases where the individual would offend one 458 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: time and then they just drop off the map. They 459 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: don't pop up anywhere else, they don't have any bad 460 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: acts after that, and then all of a sudden, this 461 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: guy pops up on the radar. We're talking well now, 462 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: when they put the bracelets on him, it's forty one 463 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: years down range. You think he thought that he got 464 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: away with it. Yeah, well, now you know, he's living 465 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: down in Tucson, Arizona. And as it turns out, Dave, 466 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: this guy during that period of time. Remember we talked 467 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 1: about how small Bernie was. Apparently back in nineteen eighty 468 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: four he was domiciled up there, he had actually lived 469 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: in that area. Oh come on, Yeah, they were able 470 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: to go back and do this investigation and look into 471 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: this guy and determined that that he had in fact 472 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: been up there during this period of time. But for 473 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: whatever reason, like you said, Dave, you never know where 474 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 1: these intersections are gonna, you know, you know, wind up 475 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: touching one another, these little timelines and whatnot. I really wonder, 476 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: you know, looking back or thinking back, I really wonder 477 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: how close they were at one point in time to 478 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 1: maybe putting their hand on this guy and he just 479 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: kind of slipped beneath the waves. 480 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 2: And they did make an arrest, not them, but back 481 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 2: in the day. 482 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: Yo, dig this man. This is the mind blowing part, Dave. 483 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:44,040 Speaker 1: They actually hooked somebody up on this case and incarcerated 484 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 1: them for two years. Man, And it turns out they 485 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: had nothing to do with the case. That person actually 486 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: wound up. I don't know if it was a suit 487 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: or if they just thought we better make this thing 488 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: go away. That that individual was paid like approximately three 489 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars for two years of their life. Wow, 490 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: because that comes down to false imprisonment, man, and they 491 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: had nothing of substance to hang on that individual. Can 492 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: you imagine how deflating we talked about the thirty four investigators. 493 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: Imagine how deflating that would be. Because you've had this 494 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: case for so long, and all of a sudden, you 495 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: think you got somebody, You think this long road is 496 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: going to come to an end. You hook them up 497 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 1: on charges, they wind up getting incarcerated, and now it 498 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: turns out, no, this is not them, This is not 499 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: them at all, And you got to pay through the 500 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: nose for this. You know, as it turns out, they 501 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: do wind up being able to hook somebody up. 502 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 3: Man, you know, they're going to feel bad putting the 503 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 3: wrong guy in jail. I mean, that's at least I 504 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 3: hope you know they'd had some conscience about it. But 505 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 3: I have heard oftentimes that, well he got away with 506 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 3: you know, maybe he didn't do this one, but he 507 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 3: did something else going back, it's like the same thing 508 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 3: of nobody does a murder and nothing else. It doesn't 509 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 3: happen like that, except in this particular case, it looks 510 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 3: like that may have actually been the case. Now, he 511 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 3: was twenty three years old at the time the murder 512 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 3: took place, so he's five years older than his victims. 513 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: That's why they wouldn't know who he was. That's the 514 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 3: biggest difference. That that's true. Oh exactly. I mean, look, 515 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 3: I knew people that were older than me when I 516 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: was eighteen years old, but they were not people I 517 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 3: would have been hanging out with. And those people sure 518 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 3: surely would not have been hanging out with me, you know. 519 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 3: And so you think, well, it stands to reason that 520 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 3: the witness, who is this poor young woman who's been assaulted, 521 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 3: she's not going to know him, but she gives this descriptor, 522 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 3: this physical descriptor, which they're able to render, you know, 523 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 3: a likeness of Back then, as it turns out, you know, 524 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 3: the police are saying that it actually turned out that 525 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 3: it looked very very similar to this guy whose name 526 00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 3: is actually Roger Neil Schmidt, and they've hooked him up. Uh, Dave, 527 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 3: I can I can happily say that, uh that he 528 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 3: rolled over on this and it admitted to it. 529 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: Uh. They still have sentencing. Uh that is actually going 530 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: to take place in just a couple of days from 531 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,919 Speaker 1: now as we're laying this down, I think December sixteenth. 532 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: They're they're actually going to do the sentencing. And that 533 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 1: brings me back. You know, when the images of this 534 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: guy rolling in literally rolling into the courtroom and he's 535 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 1: got a nasal canula in you know that supplies the. 536 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,280 Speaker 2: Os nasal canula. 537 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,760 Speaker 1: What is that ns it's the uh, it's the rubber 538 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: hose that you have to lap but you know, into 539 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: your nostrils. You have my permission. And he's and he's 540 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 1: up taking oxygen here, you know, and I'm sure he's 541 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: got labored breathing and all this sort of thing, you 542 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: know that. Oh yeah, and he's he's sitting there and 543 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: he's he's in the wheelchair. You know, please show mercy 544 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: to me. 545 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 3: Right now, he did, I want? Yeah, go ahead, you 546 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 3: plead guilty. Okay, he did. You mentioned he rolled over 547 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 3: on himself. He did take a plea, which. 548 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: Michie, what a nice man. 549 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 2: That night they had him dead to right, he did it. 550 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 3: He didn't pick off the phone and call the department 551 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 3: and say, hey, I've had something on my mind now 552 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 3: for forty years eating me up. 553 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 2: My conscience has got me. He didn't do that. 554 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 3: They already had him, They had the DNA, they did 555 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 3: all the you know, they've probably camped out, they probably 556 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 3: got stuff out of his trash. They were, they had 557 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:28,360 Speaker 3: him hooked up when they when they talked to it. 558 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: Listen, I do know this. The police up in Shasta County, 559 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: they actually coordinated with Tucson City PD just say look, 560 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: this is what we're looking at. Man, we need your 561 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: help on this, because this guy's got to be hooked up, right, 562 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,879 Speaker 1: He's got to be hooked up. So, you know, they 563 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: sat on his house for a while, you know, just 564 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: checking him out, seeing his comings and goings. And when 565 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: you have this definitive data that has been generated by 566 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: authorm and you can look at it and you see 567 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: these numbers, you know, I can only imagine for those 568 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 1: investigators that began working this case back in nineteen eighty four, 569 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 1: they would have been salivating over this kind of factual, 570 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: scientific data that they could look at and say, oh, 571 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: this is our man right here. They didn't have the ability. 572 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: And I would urge everybody here, all of our friends 573 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: out there that here us talking about these cases, do 574 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 1: not judge these investigators harshly from back in the day. 575 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 1: And I know that you guys probably understand this. But 576 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: you can only do what you can do, you know, 577 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 1: and many times you are in fact limited by the 578 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,080 Speaker 1: technology that you have, just as you know, generations before 579 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: that generation in nineteen eighty four, you know, you go 580 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: back to the forties, they were very much limited on 581 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: the things that they could do, for instance. So every generation, 582 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: you know, moving forward is going to have more technology 583 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: that's going to assist them. But there is no better 584 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: example of this than what we see today from our 585 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: friends down in the Woodlands, Woodlands, Texas. 586 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I cear you one thing, Joe, Yeah, sure 587 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 3: that you mentioned December sixteenth, You know that that's the 588 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 3: date for sentencing. Well, they've already negotiated it based on 589 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 3: the crime and when it occurred. 590 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 2: It was the death penalty case. 591 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 3: He could have faced the needle, but the negotiation, at 592 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 3: his age and everything else, they have agreed to a 593 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 3: life sentence without the possibility parole and waiving all rights 594 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 3: to appeal. So that's what they're going to sign off 595 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 3: on December sixteenth, on almost the forty first anniversary. 596 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, that merged, you know, all these decades later. Oh, 597 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,479 Speaker 1: by the way, I think that in nineteen eighty four, 598 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: still in California. My friends out there would need to 599 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: correct me about this, but I think in nineteen eighty 600 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: four in California it was still the gas chamber back then. 601 00:37:53,600 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: Oh wow, wow, signid gas man. You imagine. And so, yeah, 602 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: he dodged. He dodged this. But unlike Terry who did 603 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: not dodge those projectiles that burst that window and shattered 604 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: him in class and launched those projectiles into his body, 605 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: his body that he used to shield his young friend with. 606 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: Maybe there is justice in this old world. I don't know. 607 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: I don't know how we come to it. But at 608 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,919 Speaker 1: least this guy's off the streets. Not that he could 609 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: necessarily harm anybody any longer, but it does send a 610 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: message out. Its ends the message out that for those 611 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: that are thinking about doing horrible things. Technologies on your 612 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: heels now, wherever you are. I hope that if you 613 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: have done something like this, that you're at home sweating 614 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: right now. You're thinking all the things I did in 615 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,799 Speaker 1: secret in the dark, that terror that I subjected people 616 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,840 Speaker 1: to do. There's a reckoning coming. There will be a 617 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 1: lot more reckonings coming relative to the scientific data that 618 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,319 Speaker 1: has been collected. And a big thanks out to our 619 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: friends at authorm and listen, many of you guys say, 620 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: I want to participate, I want to try to help. 621 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: I want to be part of the solution to all 622 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: of these cases out there. Well, it requires funds and 623 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,800 Speaker 1: authorm doesn't ask for a lot. Visit their website dnasolves 624 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: dot com. Check out the cases. You can actually reference 625 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: them geographically. If there's something in your particular area that 626 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: kind of drives you that you think that you would 627 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,799 Speaker 1: like to put a few bucks behind, do it, man, 628 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: do it. I think that it is one of the 629 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,359 Speaker 1: ultimate gifts that you could provide provide society with. I 630 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: think and specifically these families who have no answers whatsoever. 631 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be a homicide. It can 632 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: just be an unidentified body that turned up you never know. 633 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: You might have known the person in your community that 634 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:09,160 Speaker 1: went unidentified and suddenly they found a skeleton. You never know. 635 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: So that's dnasolvs dot com. That's our friends at Authorm 636 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: Laboratories in the Woodlands, Texas. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and 637 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 1: this is bodybags